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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the intentional fatherhood podcast where we explore what it means to live on purpose as a father and how legacy starts at home.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Justin Whitmorely, and I'm Brooke Moser, we'll be your hosts, and we desire to bring biblical hope and practical hope.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Rock, paper, scissors, shoot.

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[SPEAKER_01]: D-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you're visually seeing this, we are in Ben's, we're in our studio here, the Ev Intentionals, Intentional has a studio and we're here and I'm so glad because we last time we were here, we were a hold up in a cabin, we didn't have a studio space yet.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is kind of a fun, a fun time and we get to like nerd out and have a controlled environment.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, your office in the basement in the brick room is good, but it's auditorially a little bit more challenging to say so to have a control of environments nice, but I'm not going to, you know, throw any shade it reminds us of how far we've come only not even a year and a half ago.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's really true.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I flew here to Bend.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was snowy cabin in winter.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We recorded season one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we've done two seasons in Richmond.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Should we tell everybody where we've been?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Catch them up.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let me just say, you got to do the intro.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you're wondering why are you guys competing?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because when I'm back and forth, whoever wins gets to do the intro.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then the other person, which is me, I get to do today.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have the privilege of letting you guys know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: that it has been crazy the involvement of how many people have shared this podcast, listen to this podcast and we're really grateful and that's come because you guys have shared it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You've also rated, subscribed, left comments.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It just helps the word get out and a lot more people see it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a huge gift because the stuff we're hearing is like the stories of real change in fatherhood which is like why we even set up to do this ever.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So to see that and hear it is really cool.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, if you could do that, write subscribe, leave a comment, all of those are helpful.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Share it, because that's really helpful, and then also another thing, if you have a question, please send in your questions.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Do a one-minute voice memo, put your name where you're from, and then email that to helloedintentionalfatherhood.org, and then lastly,

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[SPEAKER_00]: We got events happening.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, intentional fatherhood.org, check out what's happening this week.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do this new thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're doing called in the room.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we got 30 guys coming from all over the place.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we're just going to be in the offices here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And intentional.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to connect with the crew of dudes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're excited.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But we also have big events all over the place.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So go check that out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be in Austin, Texas next to November.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait for that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But this season, that's not why we're here fully.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're here to talk about a whole new topic.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we started season one, we gave a map, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Remember that map, go to intentional fatherhood.org.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You can check out that map of, and we kind of did, which was really fun.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll hand it to you in a second, Justin.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But we kind of did all of the different,

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[SPEAKER_00]: intersections obviously not the full extension because there's a lot of fatherhood and where we see pain points but where we also see healing and so we made it this wonderful grid and we're kind of working through it so tell us where we've been the last couple

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think I am absolutely, I would like you to share where we're going to go this season.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm excited.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I know we're both excited, but you like, I'm excited in a weird way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You like, sin a lot.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why I want you to do it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's cool.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It really is, I think, super helpful for you listeners to go back if you haven't gone back, or at least know where we've been.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And season one, we followed a visual framework, a map of eight tensions of fatherhood.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we talked about all these tensions.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You can look at it on the website.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it lays out in a grid these different subjects of fatherhood in season two, we talked about a time map of stages.

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[SPEAKER_01]: How we move often in our spiritual journey from getting a life together to giving it a way that's the stage that often fathers find themselves in.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Getting your life together, giving your life away, and then finally giving your death away.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So we're thinking about building a life sacrificing for your family in the middle of life and then legacy, giving your death away.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So after setting out season one and season two, the map of fatherhood, this time journey of fatherhood, we decided, let's go back to the map and do a season on each tension point.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so many of you have listened to season three, which was all about the season on work.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That was really fun.

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[SPEAKER_01]: God, that was that season.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we decided,

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[SPEAKER_01]: for season four that we want to go back to the basics this is back to the first episode we started with actually because when we started in the map of fatherhood we started in vise and difficulty in sin and we paired that with episode two and season one about covenant friendship so a big part of our framework is moving out of the isolation of sin and vise and into the redemption of Jesus' community of brotherhood.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to dive in in this season on advice.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What you just said, I can't wait.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I love talking about sin as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Out of hiding it into holiness is what we named our first talk of.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you guys have got to come.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, truly, the amount of change that happens at these things has just been so immensely, so kind of a retreat if you had to come to one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's so beautiful.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we, and it may be as a note, we say retreat on purpose.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It does not mean like we're going to a place altogether overnight, although many of you that are traveling to places, maybe.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But it is intentionally called retreat to get away to actually have time to identify process and to seek healing, seek prayer, to not just run through this whole conference where we throw content at you alone.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of content, but there's also a lot of space to process healing, do other work.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So,

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot happening there out of hiding into holiness is is what we name that first talk and I and I think that describes exactly what yeah we you know you just said I also want to just point out an interesting thing as we get into vice.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We are to weird time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I think we talk about this yesterday.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We maybe we did.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about a lot of stuff yesterday, but basically, there's a handful of topics interestingly enough that the church is a whole, and we're not, I love the local church, I know you do too, but doesn't talk about actively.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Sin is one of them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm always surprised at the level of that sin is not talked about.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Not because we need to overly talk about sin or it's just it's an imbalance at this point.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But sin is such a part of our life, our nature, our daily struggles and it doesn't help to just pretend that these things aren't real.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about vice, but the framework or really

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll let, I think this is a fun one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What we're going to use to structure our specific episodes is actually the seven deadly sins, the seven deadly sins.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I would say a theme of this season is that we want to talk about sin because we want you to take your sins seriously.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we want you to take your sins seriously, so you can take the grace of Jesus all the more seriously.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like this, this season is going to be a little bit dark in some ways.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's focused on seeing your sin clearly, seeing what holds you back, seeing how it harms others, seeing how it harms you, also you can see the goodness of God more clearly.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What he's saving you from, how he's redeeming you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And the seven deadly sins have been a classical framework for Christians.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think we're about 16 centuries.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's what it was.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's so long.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This will be like 60-second brief history.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There was a fourth century monk, I think, and I'm going to say his name wrong.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a vaguely as haunticus, who wrote down this idea of.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think he had like eight dangerous biases or something.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Pope St. Gregory often called St. Gregory the great codified this into what he called I think seven sins and then it was a quynus who then finally got it to the seven deadly sins and for that was about 1,000 years ago and the church has been using this as a framework to summarize lists that you would find in Galatians five Colossians three many places of the Bible lots of lots from the Proverbs

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[SPEAKER_01]: of just, you know, the Bible will often go into lists of sins, lists of disobedience that we commit, and the seven deadly sins has been a way to sum it up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And what they are, sloth, anger, envy, lust, gluttony, greed, pride, pride is often the

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[SPEAKER_01]: often called the root of all these sounds, the queen of the seven deadly sense.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And what do you do something interesting?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, what do you do you want to explain the interesting thing that we're going to do?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because most people would start with pride.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thanks.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for letting me do this one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really pumped about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it will all give you crit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This was your original idea.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You threw it to me and you're like, what if we did the, and you were kind of like you in a very, because you're, you actually surprisingly to a lot of people, you're very humble.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You wouldn't know that you're listening to the guy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: No, he's, you know, everybody knows it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you're extremely humble, but you're asking a really good question.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, almost like, does this make sense?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And like, the moment you said it, it was like, there is no other way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, and what your thought was, you were toying with the idea of what if we started?

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[SPEAKER_00]: with sloth and ended with pride, which is maybe, you know, out of order from what the classical seven deli-sins are.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we're not trying to follow any order.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think talking about them in order out of order really they're all going to be very impactful.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The order is not the importance.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But we also identified if we start talking about sloth and this might sound a little controversial, but I don't think it is at all.

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[SPEAKER_00]: we talked about and firmly believe that Sloth is actually the main sin of our generation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think Sloth, main sin of our generation, I'm betting you don't agree with that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Or you're like, wait, what?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll explain why, but most people would start with pride and actually end with Sloth.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's just a typical listening.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're actually going to reverse it because we want to go through the center of our generation, which is sloth, then we're going to culminate in the queen of sins.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to do the order first, three sins that kind of all group into not seeing the world how God sees it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There are sins of mistaking the world for what it is, yes, sloth, anger, and envy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to be one, two, and three here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So let's pause on that really quick.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So what you just said, I want people to really make sure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: the sins of not seeing the world, how God does.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So certain sins are like the ones that we're doing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Certain sins are a perspective.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Certain sins are omissioned, and we're gonna talk a lot about that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we'll get to that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But this is really important because sometimes we can easily, I don't know about you, Justin, but I'll speak for myself.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's easy to see these ones as not as major as the other ones.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and this is actually a good point because you say seven at least sends, you say vice, many people are going to picture something external to you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You say vice and you're going to see like a bottle of alcohol, maybe a pack of cigarettes, a club with XXX, yeah, you know, you're going to, you're visuals, yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But we want to bring sin into where it is, and that's at the heart level, the affections, like, what are you longing for that is not God?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, some of you will hear the seven deadly sins and the origins that we just talked about and think that isn't this a Catholic concept, not really except for the fact that everything that happened a thousand years ago was in the Catholic Church.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The reformers, Luther Calvin Edwards, John Edwards, worked a lot with these sends and he would always put them into the category of the affections.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What are you loving that is not worth loving and we're actually going to do that in each episode.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to give you what is this face.

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[SPEAKER_01]: How does it manifest?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then we're going to flip and say, what is your heart longing for?

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was your heart worshiping.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's not God.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And you'll see in these first three Slawth, anger, and envy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Sends of not seeing the world, how God sees it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Not loving the things that God set forth for you to love.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And how you're loving things that aren't worth.

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[SPEAKER_01]: loving.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So you'll you'll see in those first three sloth anger and be sense of not seeing the world how God sees it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then then we'll do three of not relating to the world as God intends you to relate to in which are lust, gluttony, and greed.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And here's the ones you actually think of as external like, oh, we all do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You sex, um, eating and drinking gluttony, greed, money, yeah, not relating to the world as God intends.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and lastly, pride because I couldn't agree more how sneaky pride is it's so sneaky I mean how many things do we think we do and we're not going to talk about this today and full have a whole episode on it for sure, but pride is so sneaky and I think the idea that it is woven and influences all of these is very true.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But it's also a piece of work on its own.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm looking forward to getting to that maybe just in what might be helpful is what we want to do and this will be in the show notes, but we want to just overview of what's going to be a reoccurring themes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's 10 of these things really quick.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm saying show notes because you might want to copy these down.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You might want to just go

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[SPEAKER_00]: copy and paste and you know put these put these in a note put this on a piece of paper where you're going to see it every day to remember and the point of us saying this now is so you can refer back to it but these are themes so at the rest of this season that you're going to hear and I think both should be hopefully convicting but also bring you a lot of hope.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to cover a lot of themes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Start us with the first one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just want to add to that because talking about sin and vison can so quickly get judgmental scary exposing painful.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's all true and actually you should feel much of that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We just want to be really clear up front.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Here's 10 things that are supposed to be true of you, as you talk about, sin.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to weave them into subsequent episodes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll go through this list quickly.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Ready number one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus loves you in the midst of your sin.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The goal of talking about this is not shame, but transformation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's a whole episode.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, shame keeps us stuck and shame stops transformation.

15:17.370 --> 15:23.672
[SPEAKER_00]: And I will, what I love is the hardest person to convince that Jesus loves you and the midst of your sin is you.

15:23.733 --> 15:24.093
[SPEAKER_01]: That's good.

15:24.273 --> 15:24.873
[SPEAKER_01]: That's good.

15:24.893 --> 15:25.513
[SPEAKER_00]: That's good.

15:26.554 --> 15:33.496
[SPEAKER_00]: Our second one, what if the biggest threat to your family isn't what you do occasionally, but who you're becoming?

15:34.032 --> 15:53.882
[SPEAKER_01]: And we want you to kind of have a fear of who you might become if you do not heed your sin, stop it, get help, and then follow Jesus because you are becoming somebody and it's not these one or two things that you're doing so much as the danger of who you're potentially becoming or the beauty of who you're potentially coming.

15:54.362 --> 15:58.685
[SPEAKER_01]: So formation, we want you to take seriously the formation of moving out of hiding it into holiness.

15:59.305 --> 16:01.646
[SPEAKER_01]: Number three, you live in an

16:03.547 --> 16:12.759
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, this idea is you, it's a fight, um, life rightly understood in the moment that we live in is a spiritual fight.

16:12.799 --> 16:17.785
[SPEAKER_01]: You must wake up, mostly birth, um, wake up and fight your sin.

16:17.945 --> 16:18.246
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

16:19.086 --> 16:41.918
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think one of the ways we do that we're going to talk a lot about this is being honest about your own story, naming it, taking a hard look in the mirror, so to speak for like a better analogy, to be honest, because you will never start healing until you're honest about where you are, and that piece to the wake up, like the wake up moment is honesty.

16:41.938 --> 16:44.779
[SPEAKER_00]: So to give it away, the wake up moment is honestly so which number four,

16:44.819 --> 16:52.167
[SPEAKER_00]: When there's number four is, you are called to live a life without secrets, sin flourishes in the dark, obviously, but it dies in the lighten.

16:52.548 --> 16:52.728
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

16:53.469 --> 16:55.991
[SPEAKER_01]: Number five, you cannot father alone.

16:56.091 --> 16:58.194
[SPEAKER_01]: You've heard us say this in every season.

16:58.594 --> 17:00.216
[SPEAKER_01]: You must fight sin in community.

17:01.357 --> 17:06.243
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason we're naming these vices is so that you can see clearly where the enemy is trapping you.

17:07.364 --> 17:11.267
[SPEAKER_01]: But we want to call you out of that trap and into covenant friendship.

17:11.287 --> 17:18.492
[SPEAKER_01]: You have the fight sin in community covenant friendship with Jesus and with others is the place where sanctification happened.

17:18.512 --> 17:19.153
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's number five.

17:19.413 --> 17:19.773
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

17:20.134 --> 17:23.296
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I can't wait to these themes.

17:23.316 --> 17:25.678
[SPEAKER_00]: What I love about art even going back and forth right now is just.

17:27.123 --> 17:32.568
[SPEAKER_00]: it's encouraging, I'm even encouraged because I know where this is going, but I'm even in my own soul.

17:32.588 --> 17:33.929
[SPEAKER_00]: I need these conversations.

17:34.069 --> 17:34.329
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

17:34.389 --> 17:36.311
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, even the covenant friends stuff we just talked about.

17:36.351 --> 17:40.775
[SPEAKER_01]: And we could, we actually, you could structure a season on vice around these 10 things.

17:40.955 --> 17:41.115
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

17:41.255 --> 17:43.537
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, oh, you need the name your send, you know, you need to come out of community.

17:43.897 --> 17:49.022
[SPEAKER_01]: But the reason we want to structure them around the seven deadly scents is actually to emphasize this number six.

17:49.742 --> 17:55.085
[SPEAKER_01]: it's because your sin is not unique, number six, your sin is not unique, naming it has power.

17:55.105 --> 17:59.328
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Satan wants you to think that you are really complicated.

17:59.388 --> 18:02.890
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you've got a good reason for your way of being a Grammy.

18:02.910 --> 18:11.215
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know anyone in the room is before in the Grammy, I'm not sitting across me, but if I did know anyone, like, everything I do is so unique, I'm so stressed.

18:11.255 --> 18:15.898
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you're like me, and I probably, the King of Centers here, no, you're like,

18:16.618 --> 18:23.183
[SPEAKER_01]: When I see someone else's son, I'm like, that fool, so he did that, so that's so dumb.

18:23.843 --> 18:26.245
[SPEAKER_01]: When I said, I'm like, well, it makes sense.

18:26.305 --> 18:28.566
[SPEAKER_01]: Understand, this is complicated for me.

18:28.706 --> 18:29.267
[SPEAKER_01]: Daddy's hungry.

18:29.287 --> 18:30.187
[SPEAKER_01]: This is nuanced.

18:30.207 --> 18:33.330
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, your son is not unique and you are not that nuanced.

18:33.450 --> 18:34.330
[SPEAKER_01]: Naming it as power.

18:34.370 --> 18:36.612
[SPEAKER_01]: Satan wants you to think that you're so complicated.

18:37.092 --> 18:41.094
[SPEAKER_01]: and all these things are leading to the complex actions that you have.

18:41.394 --> 18:44.275
[SPEAKER_01]: Your send is basic, your send is repetitive, your send is nameable.

18:44.335 --> 18:45.776
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost the same thing over and over.

18:46.056 --> 18:50.098
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll be name it, call you out of it, and into the beauty of Covenant friendship with Jesus and others.

18:50.398 --> 18:57.882
[SPEAKER_00]: Preach, seven, sin comes at you as if the with reason, making instantly sound reasonable.

18:58.862 --> 18:59.743
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the theme you're going to hear.

19:00.743 --> 19:15.064
[SPEAKER_00]: Sin will always like you just almost, you know, you basically said comes with great reasonable it makes I need this so I'm in this season or that that particular thing happened and man I'm just going to be I'm going to show it for my family better if I have

19:15.505 --> 19:17.327
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we all do that.

19:17.427 --> 19:31.301
[SPEAKER_01]: We're over and over going to try to remind you the ways that you rationalize your sin and actually medieval writers on this often Describe the sins as it tries to reason with your soul saying, hey, you ought to be angry about this or

19:38.968 --> 19:40.409
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you know, great.

19:40.729 --> 19:40.890
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

19:40.910 --> 19:52.619
[SPEAKER_01]: See us Lewis dealt a lot with the 70s and the screw tape letters and he worked a lot with demons and spiritual warfare showing us how reasonable it is for us to think the way that we think about somebody else.

19:52.679 --> 19:53.179
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's pride.

19:53.820 --> 19:56.082
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and his Satan can get you with the very easy stuff.

19:56.102 --> 19:57.403
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not going to use the overt stuff.

19:57.423 --> 19:57.763
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

19:57.963 --> 19:59.304
[SPEAKER_00]: So it will look like distraction.

19:59.324 --> 20:00.445
[SPEAKER_00]: It will look like simplicity.

20:00.465 --> 20:01.486
[SPEAKER_00]: It will look like he's using.

20:01.866 --> 20:03.407
[SPEAKER_01]: A number eight, are we on eight?

20:03.587 --> 20:04.408
[SPEAKER_01]: You're on eight.

20:04.468 --> 20:07.189
[SPEAKER_00]: You're the one grace means you can live differently.

20:07.349 --> 20:08.090
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, let's just pause.

20:08.730 --> 20:09.030
[SPEAKER_00]: Amen.

20:09.511 --> 20:11.172
[SPEAKER_00]: Grace means you can live differently, friends.

20:11.852 --> 20:14.253
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not stuck, simple habits, form, vices.

20:14.273 --> 20:20.417
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about, but spiritual disciplines, which we will obviously be very clear about.

20:21.137 --> 20:24.099
[SPEAKER_00]: And this wonderful gift of, which has always been there.

20:24.239 --> 20:27.221
[SPEAKER_00]: Biblicly, it's been around for ages, but now we have language for it.

20:27.261 --> 20:29.542
[SPEAKER_00]: And now proof of neuroplasticity,

20:31.023 --> 20:31.223
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

20:31.523 --> 20:32.144
[SPEAKER_00]: And what hope?

20:32.364 --> 20:34.625
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you're not stuck.

20:34.645 --> 20:35.326
[SPEAKER_01]: You are not stuck.

20:35.366 --> 20:37.367
[SPEAKER_01]: We wouldn't be talking about this if you were stuck in it.

20:37.387 --> 20:39.628
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about it because it's worth changing.

20:39.668 --> 20:40.569
[SPEAKER_01]: You can change.

20:41.009 --> 20:52.436
[SPEAKER_01]: So number nine, you've heard a talk about this, probably in every season, this metaphor of you as a garden that is, you know, farmers, gardeners work at this intersection of grace and agency.

20:53.557 --> 20:57.661
[SPEAKER_01]: Grace is the miracle that growth is possible in the first place.

20:57.701 --> 20:58.982
[SPEAKER_01]: No one has ever made a seed sprout.

20:59.002 --> 21:03.607
[SPEAKER_01]: We've created the conditions for seeds to sprout, but only God, we can water a plant but God makes it grow.

21:03.707 --> 21:07.391
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the Bible says, Grace and Agents, you're a garden.

21:07.471 --> 21:08.792
[SPEAKER_01]: You do have to tend the garden.

21:08.812 --> 21:09.573
[SPEAKER_01]: There are things for you to do.

21:09.593 --> 21:10.814
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to give you a spiritual discipline.

21:11.235 --> 21:12.876
[SPEAKER_01]: Or more in every episode.

21:13.677 --> 21:24.901
[SPEAKER_01]: But we will never let you forget that it is grace and grace alone that brought your attention to the sin in the first place, grace that regenerated your heart to make you care about it, grace that saves you grace that helps you through sanctification.

21:25.922 --> 21:29.683
[SPEAKER_01]: The Bible speaks in tandem about grace and agency, faith and works.

21:30.603 --> 21:35.165
[SPEAKER_01]: We are calling you to both because you can change and number 10 sanctification.

21:35.205 --> 21:37.686
[SPEAKER_01]: That process of change takes practice.

21:37.726 --> 21:39.867
[SPEAKER_01]: It is not about one aha moment

21:42.608 --> 22:02.272
[SPEAKER_01]: It often begins with that, but we're going to give you practice as things you can work on to try to work through the gift of neuroplasticity, the gift of spiritual disciplines into the beauty of becoming a flourishing garden of Shalom and you're like, so those are our 10 things whenever we're not going to list those again in any other episode, but you're going to hear us call back over and over.

22:02.312 --> 22:06.412
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, remember your sense, not unique or hey, remember Jesus loves you in the midst of your center.

22:06.432 --> 22:08.873
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, remember we're calling you out of vise and end a covenant friendship.

22:09.433 --> 22:10.054
[SPEAKER_01]: you're a garden.

22:10.134 --> 22:11.575
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to hear these things a lot.

22:11.616 --> 22:12.837
[SPEAKER_01]: So they'll be in the show notes.

22:13.277 --> 22:14.399
[SPEAKER_01]: You just heard them all once.

22:16.021 --> 22:18.604
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it about time that we dive into our first scene?

22:19.144 --> 22:20.345
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we talk about?

22:21.066 --> 22:25.011
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we talk about our, I was going to say the, yes, uh, let's talk about sloth.

22:26.486 --> 22:28.787
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would we, why would we start with sloth?

22:28.887 --> 22:30.168
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a little weird.

22:30.188 --> 22:33.670
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if we ask our listeners, yeah, hey, are you lazy?

22:34.350 --> 22:35.871
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you resonate with laziness?

22:36.392 --> 22:55.042
[SPEAKER_01]: My guess, maybe 10%, identify as lazy, maybe 10%, and yet you and I are sitting here, saying probably the sin of our generation, the sin of our moment, the sin of primary sin of many of you fathers listening is sloth.

22:55.923 --> 23:08.715
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, why broke is sloth not laziness and why are we why are we saying that this is the core of many of our listeners struggle in that mid-fatherhood life phase of giving our lives away.

23:08.735 --> 23:11.018
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, you'll answer to, but

23:13.013 --> 23:22.436
[SPEAKER_00]: This is really interesting when you just pause long enough to really be honest about the moment you're in probably as a father or toward ladies, toward moms listening, we love you.

23:22.476 --> 23:25.017
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening and following along.

23:25.037 --> 23:30.878
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a whole audience who basically tell us they don't follow but they do and listen that we want you to.

23:30.938 --> 23:31.379
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

23:31.979 --> 23:36.320
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a gift but I think this is just a human thing if you slow down long enough to think.

23:38.133 --> 23:43.958
[SPEAKER_00]: I know a bunch of slothful people who are not lazy, let me explain.

23:44.779 --> 23:50.283
[SPEAKER_00]: Sloth, the Aquinas defined that specifically as sorrow at spiritual good.

23:51.144 --> 23:55.407
[SPEAKER_00]: The idea that it's more of a spiritual apathy than it is a laziness.

23:56.008 --> 24:01.392
[SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, we can be very good and hardworking at work.

24:02.153 --> 24:09.417
[SPEAKER_00]: and be very spiritually apathetic, which is actually what Sloth is couched in and truly about.

24:09.797 --> 24:12.659
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, does that lead to all these other problems?

24:12.839 --> 24:17.042
[SPEAKER_00]: Does it look like laziness, for sure, and there's a ton of overlap, so we want to be really clear.

24:18.022 --> 24:21.583
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not, it's not, we're quick to go to somebody that's just not hard worker.

24:21.663 --> 24:32.004
[SPEAKER_00]: No, there's a ton of men right now listening who are selling at their work and failing in their spiritual life and you are struggling with the sin of slothfulness, but you don't even know it.

24:32.224 --> 24:32.444
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

24:32.624 --> 24:39.926
[SPEAKER_00]: And you don't even know it, so therefore it stays hidden long enough and you don't know what to do because of it and you stay stuck.

24:40.426 --> 24:43.426
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it looks like apathy in difference.

24:44.046 --> 24:46.007
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I know what God's inviting me into.

24:46.027 --> 24:46.707
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't

24:47.467 --> 24:49.448
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, how many of us have that though?

24:49.468 --> 24:54.670
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I know God asked me to be able to be like, I just don't want to that slot.

24:54.770 --> 24:55.330
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what it is.

24:55.491 --> 25:00.653
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think about this in my own story, I would never identify as lazy.

25:01.053 --> 25:05.375
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I would identify as kind of driven, you know, like, I work a lot.

25:06.075 --> 25:23.741
[SPEAKER_01]: But in my own story, which I shared in the first episode of season one and many times since and any of you have read my books, no about my mental health collapse in my early 30s, a lot of that was the product of living a life where I was hyper focused on work.

25:24.721 --> 25:30.303
[SPEAKER_01]: I was very busy with my family and I was constantly distracted by technology.

25:31.223 --> 25:32.963
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm guessing, oh, those three things.

25:33.083 --> 25:34.204
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm going hard at work.

25:35.024 --> 25:37.124
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm busy with my family.

25:37.465 --> 25:39.765
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do struggle with technological distraction.

25:39.885 --> 25:40.225
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

25:41.246 --> 25:50.588
[SPEAKER_01]: Those for me swirl together in this whirlwind that led to an anxiety crash, which I would describe as burnout.

25:51.028 --> 25:52.308
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm exhausted.

25:53.008 --> 25:58.550
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't, I can't do the things I want to do anymore because I am too compromised.

25:59.670 --> 26:04.013
[SPEAKER_01]: I would look up at life and I'd be like, why is everything have to be so hard?

26:04.673 --> 26:05.053
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

26:05.453 --> 26:05.533
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

26:05.553 --> 26:07.534
[SPEAKER_01]: This is our central question for this episode.

26:07.715 --> 26:10.156
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is everything so hard?

26:10.216 --> 26:11.557
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a laziness of the soul.

26:12.417 --> 26:13.338
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a burnout.

26:13.378 --> 26:14.418
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a tiredness.

26:14.959 --> 26:19.701
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an idea of looking at life and saying like, oh, this is a wilderness.

26:19.741 --> 26:20.602
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a desert.

26:21.282 --> 26:48.016
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what the desert father is actually called a CDA and I think many of you haven't heard that word if you have heard that word you're like oh yeah this is the center of our generation the French call it only boredom there's the idea of I think anxiety is actually very related this I think depression is very related to this it's a physical and mental burnout that says everything is too hard I would rather disconnect than push forward into the good

26:49.193 --> 26:57.060
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that actually, that is the way we want you to understand what we're talking about when we say sloth and acedia.

26:57.660 --> 26:59.042
[SPEAKER_01]: Pope John Paul II put it like this.

26:59.882 --> 27:05.107
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a sadness arising from the fact that the good is difficult.

27:05.507 --> 27:12.229
[SPEAKER_01]: Say that, yeah, say that again, it's a sadness arising from the fact that the good is difficult.

27:12.869 --> 27:27.754
[SPEAKER_01]: And for the rest of this episode, I want you to think in terms of that, not in terms of laziness, but this slothful, this tiredness, this burnout of the soul that you have as a young father, looking at life and saying, why is everything good so hard?

27:27.914 --> 27:29.094
[SPEAKER_01]: Like why is it so hard to be intentional?

27:29.114 --> 27:30.535
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is it so hard to do things on purpose?

27:31.055 --> 27:37.239
[SPEAKER_01]: I would rather just zone out, you feel sorrowful, you feel sad because the good life is the hard life.

27:37.959 --> 27:54.790
[SPEAKER_01]: And being called out of sloth is to be called into the work of joy, the work of naming the goodness and life, the work of living, bingding intentionally, like this whole podcast that works whole ministry is called intentional, yeah, living the intentional life is the opposite of

27:58.272 --> 28:04.274
[SPEAKER_00]: to, you know, as you're talking, it's like that refusal to move towards God, towards love, towards healing.

28:05.294 --> 28:08.295
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the man who is physically present, spiritually absent.

28:08.796 --> 28:13.277
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you think about, I think even for men, we have careers.

28:13.777 --> 28:15.198
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to pay him back.

28:15.218 --> 28:17.258
[SPEAKER_00]: We have hobbies, lots of them.

28:17.279 --> 28:18.019
[SPEAKER_00]: We have podcasts.

28:18.339 --> 28:21.640
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true for you and me and a lot of people who turns out as well.

28:21.680 --> 28:22.420
[SPEAKER_00]: We have side hustles.

28:22.440 --> 28:23.221
[SPEAKER_00]: We have fantasy football.

28:23.241 --> 28:23.741
[SPEAKER_00]: You got that stuff.

28:24.121 --> 28:26.622
[SPEAKER_00]: But many men, and this is where it was

28:28.042 --> 28:38.693
[SPEAKER_00]: have stopped pursuing Jesus, you stop pursuing your wife, you stop pursuing your children, you stop pursuing healing, and it sloth isn't, and this is where we have to be like hypergler.

28:38.853 --> 28:43.157
[SPEAKER_00]: It isn't inactivity, it's inactivity where it matters most.

28:43.357 --> 28:43.558
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

28:43.898 --> 28:48.242
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the detail, and that's, that's where this is going to be the hard look in the mirror.

28:49.143 --> 28:51.264
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you, you, you're, we, you're gonna say, I'm ready.

28:51.465 --> 28:52.985
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I almost want you to repeat it.

28:53.106 --> 28:55.147
[SPEAKER_01]: It's inactivity where it matters the most.

28:55.227 --> 28:55.627
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

28:55.707 --> 28:58.529
[SPEAKER_01]: Sloth is the sin of omission.

28:59.089 --> 28:59.770
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

29:00.170 --> 29:04.553
[SPEAKER_01]: Most of the time, we think of vices as sense of commission, things that you're addicted to, things that you're doing over and over.

29:05.814 --> 29:08.979
[SPEAKER_01]: This is why I work calling this the center of our generation.

29:09.700 --> 29:11.102
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all that we don't do.

29:11.623 --> 29:13.005
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all that we don't care about.

29:13.065 --> 29:16.470
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all that we're not motivated to obtain.

29:16.530 --> 29:19.675
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the new day demon of like mid-life where you're like.

29:20.476 --> 29:21.877
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I used to have quiet times.

29:22.997 --> 29:24.558
[SPEAKER_01]: I used to be somebody who is in friendships.

29:24.638 --> 29:26.739
[SPEAKER_01]: I used to, you know, want to date my wife.

29:27.259 --> 29:30.840
[SPEAKER_01]: I started out parenting with all these ideas of how I wanted to raise my kids.

29:31.140 --> 29:31.941
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it got hard.

29:32.541 --> 29:33.281
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's hard dude.

29:33.301 --> 29:33.901
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what you say.

29:34.181 --> 29:34.942
[SPEAKER_01]: You make an excuse.

29:35.022 --> 29:35.422
[SPEAKER_01]: We all do.

29:36.162 --> 29:36.902
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard dude.

29:36.963 --> 29:37.803
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's hard.

29:38.868 --> 29:40.069
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I was idealistic.

29:40.489 --> 29:44.311
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually, as it turns out, I can't do all of that.

29:44.371 --> 29:45.231
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have time.

29:45.372 --> 29:48.073
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, it's, isn't it fair to unplug?

29:48.093 --> 29:51.875
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, isn't it fair to have a little distraction, a little folding of the hands?

29:52.035 --> 29:52.475
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

29:52.635 --> 29:54.737
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the, it's the center.

29:54.757 --> 30:00.980
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, sloth is the gap between the life you ought to live and the life that you are living.

30:01.240 --> 30:07.583
[SPEAKER_01]: It is when you do confession at church, Lord, forgive us of all that we've done and all that we've left undone.

30:08.383 --> 30:15.606
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a CDS law is that second one is all that you have left undone because you convinced yourself that it was okay to be tired.

30:16.823 --> 30:20.967
[SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, convinced yourself that it was okay to be tired.

30:21.247 --> 30:21.748
[SPEAKER_00]: That's good.

30:22.328 --> 30:25.091
[SPEAKER_00]: I would also say tiredness is something that comes.

30:25.351 --> 30:29.675
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the question to me, what I mean is like being alive is exhausting.

30:30.596 --> 30:33.018
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and especially if you have kids, it is.

30:33.399 --> 30:38.043
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but I mean the practicality to me, even in a moment, I want to talk about where men hide.

30:38.083 --> 30:41.947
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying this, I like seeing them go back to it and saying, I want to talk about where men hide and sloth a lot of the times.

30:43.007 --> 30:44.008
[SPEAKER_00]: for my personal experience.

30:44.048 --> 30:59.416
[SPEAKER_00]: But what you just said, this circling idea about sloth and tiredness, I could easily see or assume that there's some guys listening.

31:00.156 --> 31:01.897
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have maybe a hard time hearing this.

31:02.798 --> 31:06.660
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's going to be quick for you to go through your Rolex of reasons and excuses.

31:06.760 --> 31:09.121
[SPEAKER_00]: Why you should not listen to this episode.

31:09.261 --> 31:10.222
[SPEAKER_00]: Why you've already turned it off.

31:12.143 --> 31:15.946
[SPEAKER_00]: Why, why do Brooke and Justin think they have this figured out?

31:16.466 --> 31:19.889
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me be the first to say, we don't, we don't have this figured out.

31:20.730 --> 31:23.552
[SPEAKER_00]: What we have is the struggle and we're in it with you.

31:24.333 --> 31:30.217
[SPEAKER_00]: And the struggle looks like a lot of the times I'm tempted to not do the deeper work because I'm exhausted.

31:31.538 --> 31:35.222
[SPEAKER_00]: um, I don't want another formation opportunity.

31:35.242 --> 31:36.143
[SPEAKER_00]: I've had too many.

31:36.843 --> 31:37.944
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm tired of being formed.

31:38.485 --> 31:40.227
[SPEAKER_00]: I would like to not be formed for a bit.

31:40.667 --> 31:47.794
[SPEAKER_00]: And just like we talked about with the hope of healing, if you're hearing this and you're hearing Justin, I go back and forth about this.

31:48.394 --> 31:52.318
[SPEAKER_00]: You're hearing this without the power of the Holy Spirit in your life to help you accomplish this.

31:52.938 --> 32:01.242
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is going to sound really exhausting, if you think this is entirely up to you and your effort alone, can you schedule out the best quiet time per time?

32:01.482 --> 32:12.487
[SPEAKER_00]: All the things that are going to take this physical commitment and forgetting that we talked about this grace is not just forgiveness of sin, in many ways, obviously not, it's so much more than that.

32:12.987 --> 32:17.869
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the power to do the good that God's calling you to and he's given you grace

32:22.591 --> 32:26.856
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't mean you don't have to put in the effort, but it's just like anything once you start doing it.

32:26.916 --> 32:28.457
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the silly analogy.

32:28.938 --> 32:30.179
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a very squeaky door.

32:30.860 --> 32:33.763
[SPEAKER_00]: You use some oil or whatever to help the hinges.

32:34.023 --> 32:34.784
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't squeak anymore.

32:34.804 --> 32:35.665
[SPEAKER_00]: It moves beautifully.

32:36.626 --> 32:38.107
[SPEAKER_00]: It's effortless at this point, right?

32:38.428 --> 32:42.372
[SPEAKER_00]: There's an oil element to the Holy Spirit empowering a person that just goes,

32:44.333 --> 32:53.300
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is for me, but I'm just tired, so spirit, help me want to do the right thing, help me want to not be slothful.

32:53.580 --> 32:54.201
[SPEAKER_00]: It starts there.

32:54.901 --> 32:55.962
[SPEAKER_01]: Could I give a quick example?

32:56.042 --> 32:57.183
[SPEAKER_01]: It just came to mind actually.

32:57.743 --> 33:03.668
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's sloth in my life, and here's also the antidote to sloth.

33:04.228 --> 33:07.831
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had a goal with with my oldest son ever since he turned 13.

33:08.052 --> 33:09.012
[SPEAKER_01]: He's now 14 and a half.

33:09.633 --> 33:14.077
[SPEAKER_01]: To have a quiet time with him once a week, we've gently picked Thursday.

33:15.038 --> 33:16.219
[SPEAKER_01]: I look at our life.

33:17.060 --> 33:23.482
[SPEAKER_01]: And I see probably 50% to 70% of the time, we don't do it or we miss it.

33:24.362 --> 33:26.243
[SPEAKER_01]: Because life is busy.

33:26.603 --> 33:27.663
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm busy with other things.

33:27.803 --> 33:32.064
[SPEAKER_01]: And when it becomes the Thursday night, and we said, okay, we're gonna sit down on Thursday night to see these quarters in it.

33:32.124 --> 33:32.924
[SPEAKER_01]: Thursday night, you sit down.

33:33.424 --> 33:34.445
[SPEAKER_01]: We sit down with together.

33:34.485 --> 33:34.685
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.

33:35.605 --> 33:39.506
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, we'll be watching like there's a night football and I'll be like, oh, it's 10.

33:39.826 --> 33:43.107
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know what, I don't want to bother tonight.

33:43.227 --> 33:44.087
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we're having fun.

33:44.107 --> 33:45.068
[SPEAKER_01]: We're sitting next to each other.

33:46.148 --> 33:49.369
[SPEAKER_01]: It's this, um, tiredness in me.

33:49.849 --> 33:50.529
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not lazy.

33:50.609 --> 33:51.569
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been working all day.

33:52.129 --> 33:52.850
[SPEAKER_01]: I got up early.

33:52.870 --> 33:53.670
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a quiet time.

33:54.030 --> 33:54.690
[SPEAKER_01]: I worked out.

33:55.070 --> 33:55.510
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm home.

33:55.530 --> 33:56.291
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm present with the kids.

33:56.311 --> 33:57.791
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually hanging out with them right now.

33:59.280 --> 34:10.398
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's this gap between like the fully intentional life that I do feel got us calling me to and I went and I even said we want to do this and the moment right now where I'm like, I can we probably get to it tomorrow.

34:10.959 --> 34:12.562
[SPEAKER_01]: Now here's the here's the beauty.

34:14.196 --> 34:22.403
[SPEAKER_01]: Every time, because still setting out to do it every week, but hitting 25 to 30% of the weeks, it's actually still incredible.

34:22.604 --> 34:26.287
[SPEAKER_01]: Means you're having more than one quiet time with your son a month.

34:27.088 --> 34:28.429
[SPEAKER_01]: It does actually become a norm.

34:28.769 --> 34:33.433
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I realize is on the evenings where I'm like, let me just do the hard thing.

34:33.533 --> 34:34.194
[SPEAKER_01]: It's worth doing.

34:34.414 --> 34:35.115
[SPEAKER_01]: And be like, hey, what?

34:35.796 --> 34:37.197
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to get back to our quiet time.

34:37.217 --> 34:37.997
[SPEAKER_01]: We missed last week.

34:38.698 --> 34:48.069
[SPEAKER_01]: and he'll like any regular teenage boy will be like, I'm tired or yeah, but we were watching football or actually I got it and I do the hard work of being like, hey, this is important.

34:48.169 --> 34:50.172
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, you know, we'll keep it 15 minutes, but let's sit down.

34:51.453 --> 34:53.396
[SPEAKER_01]: It's amazing what happens every time.

34:53.736 --> 34:55.618
[SPEAKER_01]: Do the Holy Spirit shows up.

34:56.279 --> 34:58.120
[SPEAKER_01]: And suddenly we have this incredible conversation.

34:58.160 --> 35:00.822
[SPEAKER_01]: He tells me something that he hadn't told me yet.

35:01.262 --> 35:03.023
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we make this connection that we hadn't had yet.

35:03.463 --> 35:10.928
[SPEAKER_01]: And all these beautiful gifts of sanctification, the Holy Spirit's presence happen on the other side of me saying, let's just do this.

35:12.129 --> 35:20.254
[SPEAKER_01]: That is one place where I see in my life constantly the struggle against a CD, I'd rather just sit and opening myself up to what the Lord will do.

35:20.734 --> 35:22.515
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to emphasize the garden here.

35:26.462 --> 35:29.885
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't create the miracle of growth in the garden of either of our lives.

35:29.905 --> 35:32.987
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the Lord is sanctifying us both through his sovereign at grace.

35:33.608 --> 35:36.430
[SPEAKER_01]: But he does call me to 10 of the garden.

35:36.510 --> 35:39.472
[SPEAKER_01]: And for me, that looks like the difference when it's lawful evening.

35:39.732 --> 35:40.753
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll let's just not do it this week.

35:41.734 --> 35:44.536
[SPEAKER_01]: And an intentional evening where I say, hey, we said we're going to do this.

35:44.556 --> 35:45.857
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's do it, even though I'm tired.

35:46.357 --> 35:49.380
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's amazing, the grace of growth that comes off.

35:49.920 --> 35:56.065
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so many, this is a great, great story, but perfect analogy of what we're talking about.

35:56.797 --> 36:10.686
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that is, I don't think, I know, that's what we're trying to give language and flesh to is that it is not, like in your example, it's not laziness at all.

36:11.046 --> 36:14.068
[SPEAKER_00]: You've showed up in all the other ways.

36:14.669 --> 36:20.272
[SPEAKER_00]: I think of the same analogy different in the sense of, it's not directly with my kids.

36:21.753 --> 36:28.216
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, we were talking yesterday or the day before and more in a very hard season.

36:28.236 --> 36:29.577
[SPEAKER_00]: I was up with a nine-hour family.

36:30.017 --> 36:39.681
[SPEAKER_00]: She had another major back surgery and, I mean, I've been off work for six weeks or so about there at this point and have been a full-time caregiver mode, right?

36:40.181 --> 36:40.402
[SPEAKER_00]: And...

36:41.542 --> 36:44.104
[SPEAKER_00]: that's been crazy and I don't mean crazy good.

36:44.265 --> 36:46.587
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean like it's just been generally crazy.

36:48.268 --> 36:51.571
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think you're here.

36:51.591 --> 36:52.592
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to turn your chair back.

36:52.892 --> 36:53.693
[SPEAKER_00]: We're just going to touch it.

36:53.713 --> 36:56.616
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we going to just in our sitting close quarters here?

36:58.137 --> 37:00.219
[SPEAKER_00]: We're just crossing this point.

37:01.040 --> 37:01.960
[SPEAKER_00]: I love this.

37:03.882 --> 37:06.504
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I'm just directed by your foot just sticking up.

37:07.025 --> 37:07.285
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway,

37:08.981 --> 37:20.087
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been a crazy season, and so one of the rhythms that has always been so grounding and fruitful and helpful is, and I've said this many times before, but prayer walks at night, like once things are settled.

37:20.707 --> 37:25.130
[SPEAKER_00]: And for lots of reasons, one, you're walking, you're moving, you're processing the day, you're talking with God.

37:25.150 --> 37:26.691
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's just wind after wind after wind.

37:27.451 --> 37:32.354
[SPEAKER_00]: But in the season, it has been so easy for me to have very valid excuses of like,

37:33.054 --> 37:42.420
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm caring for everybody and everything I think God is okay with me watching a show and going to sleep.

37:42.840 --> 37:43.801
[SPEAKER_01]: No, is he okay with it?

37:44.141 --> 37:44.502
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

37:44.602 --> 37:45.362
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, yes.

37:46.543 --> 37:51.046
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not even sitting there like how dear you with the interesting thing I want to note though.

37:52.046 --> 38:00.012
[SPEAKER_00]: The other night I find like it was a you're just one of those harder nights and I just was like, oh, I'm just whatever I'm going to go.

38:03.702 --> 38:06.764
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, I was journaling about it the next morning.

38:06.804 --> 38:10.327
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, you know, 45 minutes to an hour of a walk.

38:10.527 --> 38:13.889
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was processing like, man.

38:14.480 --> 38:18.644
[SPEAKER_00]: God is always just waiting for us.

38:18.964 --> 38:24.589
[SPEAKER_00]: And the moment we enter into deeper relationship, he just gives us all this stuff.

38:25.750 --> 38:33.617
[SPEAKER_00]: And the only person that I've been hurting or holding back is myself, because I just have an interest in it.

38:33.717 --> 38:35.759
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it looks hard on the surface.

38:35.899 --> 38:37.000
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks overwhelming.

38:37.020 --> 38:38.621
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like another schedule thing.

38:39.522 --> 38:43.724
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like another act of God will have to be godly and it's like no, this is actually gift for you.

38:43.804 --> 38:44.004
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

38:44.344 --> 39:00.230
[SPEAKER_00]: And similar to what you're saying, the the lie of the enemy here is that it's going to take and take and take more focus on intentional being intentional, being thoughtful, being specific, pressing into time with weight, going on a prayer walk, whatever it is, is that it's going to take more than it gives, but that's the lie.

39:00.250 --> 39:05.372
[SPEAKER_00]: The truth is he gives way more than it takes, but you're not going to know until you jump off the ledge.

39:06.312 --> 39:07.413
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so good.

39:07.453 --> 39:18.418
[SPEAKER_01]: This is why we had in our list of recurring themes that this vice is going to come at you as if with reason, making insane things sound reasonable.

39:19.778 --> 39:29.243
[SPEAKER_01]: Every time you think about these things, you have a perfectly good reason why not to take that prayer walk tonight or why it's okay to skip a quiet time with with or skip your quiet time this morning.

39:29.743 --> 39:30.423
[SPEAKER_01]: And here's the

39:34.405 --> 39:42.729
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about the difference between an isolated incident and a habit of being lazy or slothful.

39:43.130 --> 39:46.391
[SPEAKER_01]: And isolated incident and the habit of being anger.

39:46.431 --> 39:51.414
[SPEAKER_01]: Vise is the habit of doing these things over and over.

39:51.914 --> 39:57.877
[SPEAKER_01]: Because as if with reason, in any given moment, you might actually have a good reason to be like, hey, tonight's not tonight.

39:58.537 --> 40:00.679
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is like perfectly fine between

40:04.200 --> 40:05.400
[SPEAKER_01]: It made me not to that.

40:05.941 --> 40:06.661
[SPEAKER_01]: Tonight's stuff the night.

40:06.681 --> 40:08.461
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm about to do tonight?

40:08.481 --> 40:08.881
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay.

40:09.381 --> 40:10.322
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.

40:10.362 --> 40:11.082
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a marriage.

40:11.122 --> 40:11.802
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a marriage norm.

40:11.822 --> 40:12.182
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fine.

40:12.762 --> 40:18.684
[SPEAKER_01]: Any one of these, you're going to be able to take our stories or our examples and be like, Yeah, but, and of course, honestly, you're right.

40:18.944 --> 40:19.284
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.

40:19.324 --> 40:20.604
[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing wrong with watching a show.

40:20.624 --> 40:21.864
[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing wrong with missing something.

40:21.884 --> 40:23.045
[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing wrong with relaxing.

40:23.325 --> 40:24.645
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually not against that at all.

40:25.185 --> 40:32.027
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you put your sinful nature in combination with your consistent inclinations.

40:32.667 --> 40:38.613
[SPEAKER_01]: You will see that, oh, I have become the kind of person who consistently tries to find and excuse.

40:38.813 --> 40:39.013
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

40:39.474 --> 40:40.555
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we're talking about.

40:40.635 --> 40:42.356
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the advice of Sloth.

40:42.376 --> 40:46.680
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got a list of questions to help guys see how this comes from their life.

40:46.700 --> 40:47.481
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that'll be helpful.

40:47.521 --> 40:47.781
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

40:49.803 --> 40:59.331
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me just name really quick where men hide because this is kind of a part of this and then I'll go to the questions Actually, this is what I meant like to name where they had so oh, yeah, you're saying what I was okay.

40:59.391 --> 40:59.811
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, perfect.

41:00.072 --> 41:10.660
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, so I think Well, most we've already said most men aren't lazy if you have a job if it's not about laziness We've already said that but most of them are overwhelmed.

41:10.680 --> 41:11.241
[SPEAKER_00]: They're discouraged.

41:11.261 --> 41:11.801
[SPEAKER_00]: They're shamed

41:12.742 --> 41:31.092
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so what happens for most men, at least, I can say this personally, they disengage, uh, spiritually, they often disengage, um, if a conversation feels, if you learned like to feel like a conversation feels dangerous, you start to avoid it, so you start avoiding hard conversations with your wife or your kids or the ones you need to have,

41:31.732 --> 41:39.580
[SPEAKER_00]: And why I'm saying this is because this is where men often will hide and give reasons and excuses of why it's okay to not take the next step.

41:40.280 --> 41:45.125
[SPEAKER_00]: And truly guys, they're basically like right on part, Adam did the same exact thing if you remember the scripture.

41:45.946 --> 41:49.209
[SPEAKER_00]: I heard in the garden, I heard you in the garden and I was afraid so I hid.

41:49.229 --> 41:50.490
[SPEAKER_00]: If you remember so.

41:51.591 --> 41:54.934
[SPEAKER_00]: The sin doesn't make us bad or just make us bad.

41:54.974 --> 41:55.715
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes us hide.

41:56.295 --> 42:00.777
[SPEAKER_00]: And what we're trying to talk about is the hiding piece and not being honest is really important.

42:01.058 --> 42:15.445
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, are you talking about the other deeper questions, the questions of, because we have two, say, there's another one, uh, the questions that we've been talking about of like processing of how to identify some of the things that we were talking about.

42:15.465 --> 42:15.645
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

42:15.705 --> 42:15.965
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.

42:16.085 --> 42:17.706
[SPEAKER_00]: So I, I knew it.

42:17.866 --> 42:18.186
[SPEAKER_00]: I knew this.

42:18.206 --> 42:18.527
[SPEAKER_00]: What it was.

42:19.087 --> 42:21.248
[SPEAKER_00]: So the questions that I think we can write these in the show notes.

42:22.839 --> 42:36.786
[SPEAKER_00]: sit down and process these like if you have a moment to to grab 15 minutes, grab an hour, whatever, these questions will be in the show notes, ask them because this will help you discover like is this like where's love hiding in my life?

42:37.066 --> 42:37.766
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this a thing?

42:38.387 --> 42:39.347
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I struggling with this?

42:40.868 --> 42:42.049
[SPEAKER_00]: So here's the questions for you first.

42:42.369 --> 42:44.630
[SPEAKER_00]: What conversations have you been avoiding?

42:44.770 --> 42:45.770
[SPEAKER_00]: Which ones have you been avoiding?

42:46.051 --> 42:48.652
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I promise you like me they're there.

42:49.454 --> 42:53.345
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, where have you confused being busy with being faithful?

42:54.885 --> 42:59.447
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of people equate business to faithfulness and that is not the same thing at all.

42:59.727 --> 43:15.512
[SPEAKER_01]: And they think they're not slothful because we're doing a lot of busy, but we think that you're probably hiding your tiredness of the soul with a busy schedule and the busy schedule is what's keeping you from doing the important things.

43:15.552 --> 43:17.733
[SPEAKER_01]: All the urgency is keeping you from the important.

43:17.753 --> 43:20.234
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and it does.

43:20.894 --> 43:23.375
[SPEAKER_00]: Next question, what part of your soul have you stopped

43:24.435 --> 43:24.595
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

43:25.636 --> 43:38.161
[SPEAKER_00]: That's going to be different for everybody, but what I mean by that is what area is, is it prayer, is it doing the work, is it asking the questions, is it being honest that you still are a work in progress, like all of us?

43:39.442 --> 43:43.744
[SPEAKER_00]: Where have you settled for existing instead of becoming?

43:44.064 --> 43:44.284
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

43:44.644 --> 43:46.405
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's just, like, are you just existing?

43:47.467 --> 43:54.341
[SPEAKER_00]: And the last question, which is the most convicting, and one I find so helpful to ask often, personally.

43:55.891 --> 44:00.633
[SPEAKER_00]: If your children copied your spiritual life exactly, would you be excited, or would you be concerned?

44:02.673 --> 44:05.875
[SPEAKER_01]: That when you said it earlier, just they gave me a big oof.

44:06.575 --> 44:11.917
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, dude, because I think that might be the greatest litmus test of of this.

44:12.717 --> 44:21.240
[SPEAKER_01]: If your children imitated exactly your spiritual life, would you be sorrowful or would you be encouraged?

44:21.825 --> 44:26.047
[SPEAKER_01]: And remember, you've going back to our themes, you can change.

44:26.288 --> 44:27.828
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus loves you in the midst of your sentence.

44:27.848 --> 44:29.169
[SPEAKER_01]: We are not saying this to shame you.

44:29.189 --> 44:30.650
[SPEAKER_01]: The goal is not shame the goal is transformation.

44:31.150 --> 44:34.072
[SPEAKER_01]: We want you to answer that question differently to Maro.

44:34.973 --> 44:39.175
[SPEAKER_01]: We want you to Maro to say, I would like them to imitate me.

44:39.395 --> 44:44.921
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm doing this actually in part so they can see, follow me as I follow Christ.

44:45.522 --> 44:51.168
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that question is such a helpful when to get at the sin of a CDA, that tiredness, that burnout.

44:51.568 --> 44:59.857
[SPEAKER_01]: Because when you, if you were to picture your children in your life stage and what you want them to be like, you would want them to be somebody who pushes through.

45:00.478 --> 45:07.045
[SPEAKER_01]: who has fortitude, who has faithfulness, who says yes, it's tiring, it's hard, it's actually hard to live the good life.

45:07.705 --> 45:11.870
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm going to persevere because I've got my eyes set on the goal that is Jesus.

45:11.890 --> 45:14.693
[SPEAKER_01]: They pick the hard, they choose the difficult.

45:14.993 --> 45:17.516
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's such a good question.

45:18.777 --> 45:28.503
[SPEAKER_01]: I think helps us to get at what the deeper desire is here because we're going to give you we're going to show you in each of these how Jesus redeems this, how you can imitate him.

45:29.263 --> 45:35.667
[SPEAKER_01]: But before we get to that virtue, in each advice we want to show you, what is your soul longing for?

45:36.448 --> 45:39.089
[SPEAKER_01]: When you look at the world and you say, this is just too hard.

45:39.389 --> 45:40.070
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm too tired.

45:40.790 --> 45:43.732
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what is sloth show us about what we're longing for?

45:46.108 --> 45:55.875
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, I think that's a question that I'm this whole topic like what where I'm like even paused and not jumping right into that responses.

45:56.495 --> 46:01.698
[SPEAKER_00]: This matters so much like this conversation, not just our conversation, but the conversation of Sloth.

46:02.599 --> 46:11.302
[SPEAKER_00]: I just have a sense that it has been one of the ways that the enemy has used to deceive so many of us, including myself, you know, and all of us to an extent.

46:12.102 --> 46:20.665
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just like, man, this is such an important topic of our moment because so many things I think I've hidden behind this.

46:20.965 --> 46:25.967
[SPEAKER_00]: And so just to say, I think we have a deeper desires and we're just choosing the wrong things to fill them.

46:27.487 --> 46:29.348
[SPEAKER_00]: But what are you worshiping that's not God?

46:30.308 --> 46:36.776
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what we're trying to find in the in slot is comfort, I mean, that's that's the sum of it.

46:36.816 --> 46:37.878
[SPEAKER_00]: You're trying to find comfort.

46:37.938 --> 46:42.123
[SPEAKER_00]: And what is the American dream promise comfort?

46:42.424 --> 46:43.505
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, isn't it?

46:44.106 --> 46:48.692
[SPEAKER_00]: And is there like security that yeah, there's different things, but if you boil it all down, what is it?

46:49.272 --> 47:06.449
[SPEAKER_00]: That your nation is safe, that your neighborhood is safe, that you have enough money to do anything that you want, that you don't have to work or have any sort of jobs so that you can just be comfortable and not be inconvenienced ever and not have tension in any world.

47:07.190 --> 47:11.734
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that is the deeper thing that you are longing for.

47:13.196 --> 47:16.399
[SPEAKER_00]: But what you need isn't comfort, you need rest.

47:16.640 --> 47:18.762
[SPEAKER_00]: And let me just give you a quick example of what that looks like.

47:19.222 --> 47:27.371
[SPEAKER_00]: You come home from a long day and you think you need a beer, you need a game, you need a... You need just a moment to like detach and disconnect.

47:27.411 --> 47:31.456
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, again, we will never shame these things.

47:31.476 --> 47:33.438
[SPEAKER_00]: These are beautiful things, celebratory things.

47:34.439 --> 47:44.546
[SPEAKER_00]: but often many of us are running to that and calling it rest when it's not it's comforting but it's numbing out rest is very different than comfort.

47:44.566 --> 47:54.793
[SPEAKER_00]: There are two different things and live in different categories and so rest is something that you do not only with sleep but rest is also something that you choose to enter.

47:54.833 --> 47:56.774
[SPEAKER_00]: It's mind, heart, spirit.

47:56.814 --> 47:58.375
[SPEAKER_00]: It is not just comfort.

47:59.876 --> 48:09.240
[SPEAKER_00]: what is the what is the deeper desire comfort and what do you actually need rest and we're going to talk about how you actually find comfort in God and in these beautiful practices.

48:09.361 --> 48:16.244
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's what you're longing for and I honestly think that when when you are honest about that

48:17.224 --> 48:33.495
[SPEAKER_00]: How does that like reveal what you're longing for rest for you is what you need and God wants to give you rest It there's all these phrases and the scriptures about how we we have to faithfully and to rest because rest is actually about trust You have to trust that you stop being to work for a moment.

48:33.515 --> 48:40.880
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna things will keep going you have to trust that God is holding you when you go to sleep It's a massive amount of trust if your kid struggle falling asleep

48:41.760 --> 48:46.701
[SPEAKER_00]: We had an anxiety specialist that we met with like seven weeks because we had, and with a lot of lost stories.

48:47.362 --> 48:56.884
[SPEAKER_00]: But the point is, she helped us see like, we had a lot of our kids with having anxiety when they were, you know, fall asleep, they'd have all this nervous energy, all these different conversations.

48:57.544 --> 49:00.005
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, what is the deal about nighttime?

49:00.025 --> 49:01.605
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, it's not nighttime.

49:02.526 --> 49:03.046
[SPEAKER_00]: It's sleep.

49:03.366 --> 49:06.627
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you are going from conscious awareness.

49:07.367 --> 49:14.013
[SPEAKER_00]: to having to be in such a vulnerable place and trusting that your body's safe and it goes to sleep and that you'll wake up again.

49:15.053 --> 49:18.176
[SPEAKER_00]: Even sleeping is an act of trust.

49:18.576 --> 49:21.399
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just to say, comfort, what you want is rest.

49:22.560 --> 49:32.648
[SPEAKER_01]: I think of this when I tell my kids to do a chore playing their room and they're like, I'm done and I come look at it and I'm like, no we're not even close and they

49:37.201 --> 49:38.441
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, why doesn't matter?

49:38.521 --> 49:39.602
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is good enough.

49:39.922 --> 49:43.965
[SPEAKER_01]: Or I say, you know, you start to put your clothes away, not stuff them all into a corner of the room.

49:43.985 --> 49:45.907
[SPEAKER_01]: No, who cares?

49:46.847 --> 49:54.052
[SPEAKER_01]: That I think on a child level is who we are when we become like the children that we are as men.

49:54.733 --> 49:56.774
[SPEAKER_01]: When we look at our life and we're like, isn't this good enough?

49:56.834 --> 49:57.375
[SPEAKER_01]: Isn't this done?

49:57.435 --> 49:58.456
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to be over.

49:58.476 --> 49:59.796
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want the comfort of being done.

50:00.437 --> 50:04.100
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a fine line, Brooke, because in one sense, I think you're longing

50:04.820 --> 50:11.983
[SPEAKER_01]: for the kingdom, you're longing for the not yet, even though right now you're in the now and the world.

50:12.623 --> 50:20.666
[SPEAKER_01]: There is something right about us wanting to be done, about wanting to rest in the work, about wanting just to go to bed and like rest in the goodness of it being done.

50:21.427 --> 50:24.308
[SPEAKER_01]: Slough in one sense is just a mistake of time.

50:24.968 --> 50:25.969
[SPEAKER_01]: that you're not there yet.

50:26.149 --> 50:37.016
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got to have a little bit more for you, or there's more work to do, or there's something you're called to push through, because we are in the tension of the now, like where it's not yet there.

50:37.396 --> 50:40.558
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that it helps to see that you're not crazy.

50:41.479 --> 50:42.359
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not insane.

50:42.419 --> 50:45.321
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you should long for the work to be done.

50:45.341 --> 50:48.463
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just like thumbing through my Bible to find Ecclesiastes where it talks.

50:48.904 --> 50:50.305
[SPEAKER_01]: We talked about this so much in our last season.

50:50.985 --> 51:13.245
[SPEAKER_01]: of the joy of being able to be satisfied in your work being done and that, you know, the writer talks constantly about how, you know, it's all the struggle of life is this meaningless toil and all the goodness is being able to sit back and be like, hey, it's done, you know, what it's great to be able to rest and take joy in the comfort of your family and your wife and of wine, your family, your wife, your children of wine, all these things.

51:14.716 --> 51:22.279
[SPEAKER_01]: The Bible does want you to long for that, but it wants you to put it in the right place and sloth is that send of a mission where you're not there yet.

51:22.379 --> 51:26.141
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you've got still more to do, even though you're longing for the goodness of it.

51:26.261 --> 51:28.602
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Revelation, this is kind of a key verse.

51:28.862 --> 51:29.922
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been reading it for you.

51:29.942 --> 51:34.424
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we'll just for this particular, for this particular vice.

51:35.265 --> 51:40.487
[SPEAKER_00]: And in a ring so true, you've heard it before for sure, Revelation three,

51:41.247 --> 51:42.289
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be getting in 15.

51:42.329 --> 51:44.712
[SPEAKER_00]: I know your deeds that you are neither cold nor hot.

51:45.032 --> 51:48.257
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish you were either one or the other.

51:48.757 --> 51:53.624
[SPEAKER_00]: So because you're lukewarm neither hot nor cold, I'm about to spit you out of my mouth.

51:53.784 --> 51:57.149
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously that's insanely vivid imagery and tense.

51:58.350 --> 52:00.671
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is God's heart for you.

52:01.031 --> 52:07.592
[SPEAKER_00]: It's be hot or cold, but most of us live in this like I'm not lazy.

52:07.652 --> 52:12.033
[SPEAKER_00]: I work really hard at work, but you're spiritually absent.

52:12.253 --> 52:15.094
[SPEAKER_00]: And that my friends is Luke Warren.

52:15.434 --> 52:24.236
[SPEAKER_00]: And when people, maybe just one of their frameworks, so you're not overwhelmed as you're listening to this, many might be tempted to hear this and go, you know what I need to

52:28.858 --> 52:32.522
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, what you probably need to do is harder and more important and more lasting.

52:32.642 --> 52:42.314
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to look at the whole of your life and realize where you have made many idols out of things like work, things like hobbies, things like these other things, and you need to start saying no to those.

52:42.494 --> 52:42.734
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

52:42.854 --> 52:46.439
[SPEAKER_00]: To have space where the real important things, because

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[SPEAKER_00]: You only have a limited capacity.

52:49.742 --> 52:50.963
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you can't add anymore.

52:51.343 --> 53:06.474
[SPEAKER_00]: So what this is also about it's gonna mess with the idols Are your hands and success maybe that needs to make the less money you go on less vacations You have less of a nice car, but I promise you friends you will be more satisfied more filled with joy This is the invitation of Jesus so so don't be tempted to add

53:07.275 --> 53:08.776
[SPEAKER_01]: That's so, so good.

53:08.896 --> 53:16.159
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad you said that because I think that brings us to what we want to do in each episode in the last leg of it.

53:16.179 --> 53:22.643
[SPEAKER_01]: It's look up, look at Jesus, say, how does he embody the virtue of this, the solution of this face?

53:23.163 --> 53:31.107
[SPEAKER_01]: And what you just named, bro, I think is such a good perspective on how we can imitate Jesus and come out of sloth.

53:32.067 --> 53:39.929
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus was famous for saying no to things because he cared enough to say yes to the important thing.

53:40.390 --> 53:47.912
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus was famous for not doing easy things because he cared enough to open himself up to hard things to being hurt.

53:48.232 --> 53:56.474
[SPEAKER_01]: If you look at his life, he was constantly pairing back obligations so that he could be with the people he needed to be with, care about them,

53:59.295 --> 54:03.037
[SPEAKER_01]: He was saying no to a ton of things so that he could say yes to that core.

54:03.597 --> 54:06.178
[SPEAKER_01]: That is the opposite of sloughfulness.

54:06.418 --> 54:08.379
[SPEAKER_01]: We call that the intentional life.

54:08.959 --> 54:11.340
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, we're going to frame this virtue in terms of intentionality.

54:11.360 --> 54:13.321
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the intentional fatherhood podcast after all.

54:13.781 --> 54:16.762
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's been called many other things and can be called many other things.

54:16.782 --> 54:18.983
[SPEAKER_01]: The opposite of slough is faithfulness.

54:20.043 --> 54:21.444
[SPEAKER_01]: doing what is required of you.

54:21.465 --> 54:23.246
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the fruit of the Spirit of English in five.

54:23.666 --> 54:28.390
[SPEAKER_01]: The opposite of Floth is diligence, doing things on purpose with attention to detail.

54:28.971 --> 54:31.933
[SPEAKER_01]: One of my favorite guys in the world book, Moses says detail matters all the time.

54:32.874 --> 54:35.276
[SPEAKER_01]: The opposite of Floth is joy.

54:35.676 --> 54:35.896
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

54:36.237 --> 54:44.103
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I love that quote by John Paul II because he notes it as the sadness that comes

54:48.326 --> 54:52.309
[SPEAKER_01]: And God calls us to something entirely different than that.

54:52.329 --> 54:56.713
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is the idea of being joyful at the task set before you.

54:57.173 --> 54:58.454
[SPEAKER_01]: What does he be saying about Jesus?

54:58.974 --> 55:07.301
[SPEAKER_01]: He was joyful to do what he was called to do, that he gladly took up the cross.

55:08.361 --> 55:10.043
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the opposite of sloth.

55:10.825 --> 55:20.788
[SPEAKER_01]: caring enough to be hurt, being caring enough to be faithful, caring enough to do your task with diligence, caring enough to live your life with attentionality.

55:21.288 --> 55:26.670
[SPEAKER_01]: The opposite of, on-wee of Assyria is actually an emotional,

55:28.306 --> 55:28.926
[SPEAKER_01]: awakening.

55:29.346 --> 55:35.768
[SPEAKER_01]: Ephesians says wake up O sleeper, you know, arise from the dead Christ says, call you in a new life.

55:35.808 --> 55:43.670
[SPEAKER_01]: It is looking at Jesus and saying, oh my gosh, what you could say about this man any day of the week, this Jesus, you could say he cared.

55:44.650 --> 55:46.070
[SPEAKER_01]: He cared enough to cry.

55:46.570 --> 55:47.991
[SPEAKER_01]: He cared enough to wake up early.

55:48.351 --> 55:51.192
[SPEAKER_01]: He cared enough to stop and pause and heal somebody.

55:51.712 --> 55:53.512
[SPEAKER_01]: He cared enough to look with compassion

55:56.973 --> 56:00.616
[SPEAKER_01]: The opposite of sloth is caring enough to be intentional, faithful, diligent.

56:00.636 --> 56:05.380
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the full quote of Ephesians, which I think is worth reading.

56:05.520 --> 56:05.961
[SPEAKER_00]: I was reading it.

56:06.001 --> 56:09.784
[SPEAKER_00]: I was reading it because it actually is so funny when we will not weave.

56:10.104 --> 56:15.108
[SPEAKER_00]: But in general, like I think as Christians, we do this, you'll know of a verse or a phrase like that wake up post sleeper.

56:15.168 --> 56:16.249
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you've heard this before somewhere.

56:16.269 --> 56:21.534
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's interesting enough English, at least in our modern day, where it sticks for whatever it has a sticky element to it.

56:22.334 --> 56:30.761
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's actually in the context, it's really interesting because it's wake-up sleeper of seasons 5, 14 wake-up sleeper rise from the dead and Christ will shine on you.

56:31.141 --> 56:33.103
[SPEAKER_00]: So think about this idea of what you just said.

56:33.423 --> 56:34.164
[SPEAKER_00]: It's waking up.

56:34.204 --> 56:34.564
[SPEAKER_00]: It's joy.

56:34.584 --> 56:35.825
[SPEAKER_00]: It's what Jesus invites us into.

56:36.726 --> 56:42.130
[SPEAKER_00]: But first 15, this is the context of this verse, be very careful than how you live.

56:43.831 --> 56:45.472
[SPEAKER_00]: not as unwise, but as wise.

56:45.492 --> 56:46.873
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like, hey, live intentionally.

56:47.134 --> 56:48.394
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, like, choose on purpose.

56:48.414 --> 56:49.155
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what I care for.

56:49.175 --> 56:49.775
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what I'm saying.

56:49.815 --> 56:54.779
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, in hidden in plain sight is sloth in the answer to it in these two verses.

56:54.839 --> 57:00.423
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it says verse 16, making the most of every opportunity because the days are evil.

57:00.443 --> 57:04.986
[SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is.

57:05.927 --> 57:06.848
[SPEAKER_00]: What is the Lord's will?

57:06.868 --> 57:11.692
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're not getting into that topic because it's very broad, but I will also say it's not that broad.

57:11.852 --> 57:15.074
[SPEAKER_00]: It is look at the life of Jesus in many ways, imitate it.

57:15.114 --> 57:17.236
[SPEAKER_00]: We often are asking, well, what's God's will in my life?

57:17.696 --> 57:21.679
[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, it's to be a Godly human who serves Him faithfully.

57:22.640 --> 57:25.643
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're asking usually like, well, what about a job and what about this person?

57:25.663 --> 57:26.443
[SPEAKER_00]: Should I marry that?

57:26.463 --> 57:27.444
[SPEAKER_00]: And what about this job?

57:27.464 --> 57:28.765
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this particular opportunity?

57:29.205 --> 57:29.546
[SPEAKER_00]: That's good.

57:29.566 --> 57:34.109
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think sometimes God has an opinion, sometimes he doesn't, which makes us uncomfortable, which is a whole other topic.

57:34.970 --> 57:38.513
[SPEAKER_00]: But I really think there's a few things that are very clear that lead the will of God.

57:38.633 --> 57:44.017
[SPEAKER_00]: It's to walk a life that is not slough or that is spiritually awake and not apathetic.

57:44.058 --> 57:44.258
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

57:44.478 --> 57:46.179
[SPEAKER_00]: You can know that that's God's will for your life.

57:46.199 --> 57:46.339
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

57:46.359 --> 57:47.340
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have to convince you.

57:47.380 --> 57:47.781
[SPEAKER_00]: You know it.

57:48.621 --> 57:48.861
[SPEAKER_00]: So,

57:49.682 --> 58:06.393
[SPEAKER_00]: That verse I just think is, I love when that happens, but when it's there, it's been there this whole time, and we get to like, from be reminded, Paul says I stir you up by way of reminder, you know, hopefully right now we're just stirring you up in your soul by way of reminding you way, you know, to do the thing that's hard.

58:07.319 --> 58:18.445
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to connect this for people to the the main theme of our podcast, um, if you look at our website, if you look at the podcast, you know, tag lines any of our merch.

58:18.485 --> 58:21.807
[SPEAKER_01]: If you come to the conferences, you're going to see, I'm sorry, they're retreats.

58:21.827 --> 58:24.849
[SPEAKER_01]: If you go to the retreats, you can see come versus, but they're just not that bad.

58:24.889 --> 58:25.590
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just not that bad.

58:25.610 --> 58:26.270
[SPEAKER_01]: You go on that.

58:26.290 --> 58:27.691
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to see this on slides.

58:28.231 --> 58:31.173
[SPEAKER_01]: We say it over and over at Legacy starts at home.

58:32.033 --> 58:32.894
[SPEAKER_01]: Legacy starts at home.

58:33.554 --> 58:45.192
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think one of the gut punching questions for this could be do your kids see you as somebody who fundamentally cares.

58:46.696 --> 58:49.039
[SPEAKER_01]: Or do they see you as somebody who's fundamentally tired?

58:50.161 --> 58:55.788
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that is kind of like the question you asked earlier, if your kids imitate your spiritual life exactly, would you be happy with that?

58:56.308 --> 59:03.758
[SPEAKER_01]: When we look at Jesus, we have zero question as to whether he cared enough to go to the cross.

59:04.639 --> 59:26.210
[SPEAKER_01]: zero question ever whether he cared enough to do the hard thing zero question ever whether he cared enough to get up and pray zero question ever whether he cared enough to come for us that is the main characteristic of the life of Jesus that though the good was difficult he was willing to do the hard thing because he loves us and I want you father's listening

59:27.151 --> 59:32.957
[SPEAKER_01]: to be seen like that by your children, that over the course of your life, and remember, you can change your garden.

59:32.977 --> 59:33.978
[SPEAKER_01]: You can be sanctified.

59:33.998 --> 59:34.979
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not stuck.

59:35.700 --> 59:40.145
[SPEAKER_01]: I want by the end of the days of your children in your house.

59:40.606 --> 59:43.589
[SPEAKER_01]: And you probably, I'm guessing those of you listeners have a lot more years, though.

59:45.218 --> 59:52.540
[SPEAKER_01]: to put sloth behind you and start caring like Jesus did so that when your kids reflect on you, they think, my dad cared.

59:53.220 --> 59:56.620
[SPEAKER_01]: I could see that it was hard for him, but he cared enough to do this with me.

59:56.680 --> 59:58.381
[SPEAKER_01]: He cared enough to say this to me.

59:58.721 --> 01:00:00.081
[SPEAKER_01]: He cared enough to take us to church.

01:00:00.121 --> 01:00:01.461
[SPEAKER_01]: He cared enough to take me on that trip.

01:00:01.482 --> 01:00:03.842
[SPEAKER_01]: He cared enough to live intentionally.

01:00:04.942 --> 01:00:05.922
[SPEAKER_01]: You know why it's a beautiful thing?

01:00:06.463 --> 01:00:08.083
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's you looking like Jesus.

01:00:08.603 --> 01:00:09.524
[SPEAKER_01]: That's who Jesus is.

01:00:09.564 --> 01:00:20.392
[SPEAKER_01]: He is the good Father who cares enough and caring enough to do the hard thing, caring enough to be heard is the exact opposite of sloth and honestly the exact opposite of our generation.

01:00:20.452 --> 01:00:24.675
[SPEAKER_01]: Most of us are too distracted to do the good things.

01:00:25.596 --> 01:00:32.301
[SPEAKER_01]: We're tired, we're burnout, and the opposite of that is following Jesus into diligence and faithfulness.

01:00:33.742 --> 01:00:37.344
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we've got at least two applications for this and we want to end every episode with applications.

01:00:37.564 --> 01:00:40.086
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about two ways this can happen.

01:00:40.786 --> 01:00:44.269
[SPEAKER_01]: Every time we're not about out of hiding and then to the holyness of community.

01:00:45.529 --> 01:00:50.012
[SPEAKER_01]: So one application on how this works in community and then I've got at least one spiritual discipline again.

01:00:50.032 --> 01:00:50.212
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:00:50.612 --> 01:00:50.773
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:00:50.873 --> 01:00:51.933
[SPEAKER_00]: On top of community first.

01:00:52.113 --> 01:00:52.434
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:00:54.561 --> 01:01:02.044
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, I think that we said this at the beginning, but this is the book end of it, you'll stay stuck until you're honest.

01:01:02.685 --> 01:01:04.986
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what does honesty mean?

01:01:05.026 --> 01:01:08.347
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me just tell you just briefly so you can have framework.

01:01:08.367 --> 01:01:10.048
[SPEAKER_00]: You know this men, but I also think.

01:01:10.848 --> 01:01:17.995
[SPEAKER_00]: we know this, but it's important to highlight, it means that you start with yourself and say, I might, this actually might be me.

01:01:18.075 --> 01:01:20.457
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think so, but it might be me.

01:01:20.838 --> 01:01:22.779
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you don't need to shame yourself.

01:01:22.940 --> 01:01:24.421
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't need to get hard on yourself.

01:01:24.561 --> 01:01:26.923
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we all, we all miss it.

01:01:26.963 --> 01:01:27.704
[SPEAKER_00]: We miss the mark.

01:01:28.144 --> 01:01:30.327
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so you don't need to punish yourself.

01:01:30.427 --> 01:01:32.989
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus took that on the cross.

01:01:33.229 --> 01:01:35.772
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to do you any good, but it will do you harm for sure.

01:01:36.292 --> 01:01:41.793
[SPEAKER_00]: So, be honest about the fact that you are where you are, and name this as what it is, sloth.

01:01:41.893 --> 01:01:44.214
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you confess it.

01:01:44.554 --> 01:01:46.774
[SPEAKER_00]: It will be to your spouse, some will be to a friend.

01:01:47.474 --> 01:01:54.276
[SPEAKER_00]: And why, I mean, there's so many things that we won't even talk about when it comes to this topic, because it's endless, really.

01:01:54.296 --> 01:01:56.956
[SPEAKER_00]: But confess your sins in one another that you may be healed.

01:01:56.976 --> 01:02:00.437
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus never said, confess your sins to me alone that you may be healed, which is interesting.

01:02:00.457 --> 01:02:01.937
[SPEAKER_00]: He could just say, confess your sins to me.

01:02:01.997 --> 01:02:03.197
[SPEAKER_01]: And all things can be said,

01:02:06.519 --> 01:02:08.722
[SPEAKER_00]: forgiveness needs to happen between you and God.

01:02:08.742 --> 01:02:09.743
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to repent.

01:02:10.605 --> 01:02:14.911
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a forgiveness there, but healing is usually through confessions to others.

01:02:15.532 --> 01:02:18.356
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it becomes real when we name this stuff.

01:02:18.416 --> 01:02:20.199
[SPEAKER_00]: And so doing this with in community is

01:02:21.280 --> 01:02:23.740
[SPEAKER_00]: of immense importance for you to identify this.

01:02:23.881 --> 01:02:27.101
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe you're sitting, you're like, I'm not slothful, you know?

01:02:27.381 --> 01:02:27.681
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.

01:02:27.921 --> 01:02:30.202
[SPEAKER_00]: Be encouraged, but help others that might be on that space.

01:02:30.522 --> 01:02:35.143
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think, as far as doing this within community, this will be essential for the success of this.

01:02:35.503 --> 01:02:42.484
[SPEAKER_00]: If you listen to this and you're like, that's a good idea, but you don't bring it to your community as a real point that I actually might need to talk about this.

01:02:43.064 --> 01:02:48.085
[SPEAKER_00]: It stays in this place of no man's land, this place of theory, this place of

01:02:48.265 --> 01:02:58.587
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know like it becomes real when you talk about it and you confess it when you and confession might even be the strongest when you admit it to yourself and admit it to others that like I'm a sloth one I know.

01:02:59.067 --> 01:03:06.749
[SPEAKER_01]: I think confession is a great word, you know, in our church service we we often say these exact words forgive us for what we have done and what we've left undone.

01:03:07.249 --> 01:03:15.651
[SPEAKER_01]: One great way to start practicing this coming out of sloth and in intentionality would be send this episode to a friend get together with a group of friends and say and ask each other

01:03:17.491 --> 01:03:19.893
[SPEAKER_01]: not a single one of you has a blank answer that.

01:03:19.993 --> 01:03:21.995
[SPEAKER_01]: Every all of us have left something undone.

01:03:22.015 --> 01:03:30.221
[SPEAKER_01]: And the great way to start talking about this would just be, hey, friend, what have you left undone in your life?

01:03:30.481 --> 01:03:35.585
[SPEAKER_01]: That's an entry question to coming out of the hiding of sloth and into the holiness of

01:03:36.005 --> 01:03:38.187
[SPEAKER_01]: There's more that God has called me to do.

01:03:39.007 --> 01:03:53.278
[SPEAKER_01]: A second part of that, I think is really important, is that even in confession and accountability relationships or covenant friendship, the kind of stuff that we talk about all the time, there can be a sloth to the follow-up.

01:03:54.279 --> 01:03:56.040
[SPEAKER_01]: I think for many times of my life,

01:03:57.823 --> 01:04:05.345
[SPEAKER_01]: My friends and I thought a confessional community accountability just naming the wrong was kind of enough or that was mainly what we had to do.

01:04:06.106 --> 01:04:07.926
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think many guys are going to be familiar with this.

01:04:08.006 --> 01:04:13.068
[SPEAKER_01]: It can create a pattern of laziness about your scent.

01:04:13.368 --> 01:04:14.668
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, I failed again.

01:04:14.709 --> 01:04:15.629
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I lost it again.

01:04:15.649 --> 01:04:16.489
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I did this again.

01:04:16.529 --> 01:04:18.110
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I still struggling with it.

01:04:18.210 --> 01:04:20.710
[SPEAKER_01]: And we think the work is done because we have confessed.

01:04:20.790 --> 01:04:25.092
[SPEAKER_01]: But James tells us, I don't just look at the word.

01:04:25.832 --> 01:04:30.816
[SPEAKER_01]: as if in a mirror, and then not go change, because you wanna say, go do something different.

01:04:31.257 --> 01:04:44.148
[SPEAKER_01]: So the antidote to sloth in covenant friendship and community might be you doing the hard thing of looking at your friend and saying, hey brother, how's this gonna be different next time?

01:04:44.548 --> 01:04:45.328
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what's your plan?

01:04:46.550 --> 01:04:47.851
[SPEAKER_01]: How is this not gonna happen again?

01:04:47.871 --> 01:04:51.994
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you could say it with a smile on your face, but how is this not gonna happen again?

01:04:55.622 --> 01:05:03.070
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I'll keep this relatively vague, but it was a repeat confession scenario, and I, I looked at him.

01:05:03.130 --> 01:05:05.373
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a coffee on a sidewalk of a cafe.

01:05:05.393 --> 01:05:09.057
[SPEAKER_01]: I never forget it was the morning before work and we're doing our, uh, a catch up.

01:05:09.097 --> 01:05:13.001
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, what's it going to be like in 10 years when your son catches you doing this.

01:05:15.033 --> 01:05:15.693
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was like, what?

01:05:15.713 --> 01:05:18.635
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, you know, this has been true for a lot of years.

01:05:18.815 --> 01:05:19.975
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just going to let this keep going.

01:05:19.995 --> 01:05:23.197
[SPEAKER_01]: What's it going to be like when your son finds out that this is the who you are?

01:05:24.298 --> 01:05:25.718
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a great way.

01:05:25.998 --> 01:05:27.719
[SPEAKER_01]: I meant to be a little abrasive.

01:05:27.859 --> 01:05:30.100
[SPEAKER_01]: I meant to be a little bit like, are you just going to keep living like this?

01:05:30.120 --> 01:05:32.582
[SPEAKER_01]: Because eventually, X is going to happen.

01:05:33.342 --> 01:05:34.122
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a great moment.

01:05:34.342 --> 01:05:36.763
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it really actually helped him shift in that moment.

01:05:36.783 --> 01:05:38.444
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had people ask me similar questions.

01:05:39.204 --> 01:05:43.286
[SPEAKER_01]: Be the person who kind of shakes your friends out of the laziness of their sanity.

01:05:43.306 --> 01:05:45.447
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, how are we going to go to counseling?

01:05:45.467 --> 01:05:46.907
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you going to finally bring this up with your wife?

01:05:46.927 --> 01:05:48.248
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you going to stop this at work?

01:05:49.942 --> 01:05:56.485
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're a person, so that's the person maybe, you know, you're saying, in a loving way, I think it's really important.

01:05:57.246 --> 01:05:59.247
[SPEAKER_00]: And if it's a real friend, you'll be this way.

01:05:59.287 --> 01:06:01.148
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I trust you to be loving about it.

01:06:01.188 --> 01:06:03.229
[SPEAKER_00]: But gracious, I'm not going to need to wake them up.

01:06:03.349 --> 01:06:06.030
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's the exactly.

01:06:06.130 --> 01:06:14.554
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I'm trying to, I think highlight is there's two sides that there's the person that you're identifying, which is, you know, in that scenario, you're the one calling up.

01:06:15.114 --> 01:06:19.558
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted him to call that's not calling out and I want to be really clear everyone if you heard there like he's calling him out.

01:06:19.578 --> 01:06:20.559
[SPEAKER_00]: He's calling him up.

01:06:20.639 --> 01:06:24.062
[SPEAKER_00]: He's calling him to be way better than he's calling him to be who he knows.

01:06:24.362 --> 01:06:24.562
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:06:24.722 --> 01:06:29.887
[SPEAKER_00]: He actually like you knew who he actually was and he was struggling and then you could be better.

01:06:30.067 --> 01:06:30.407
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

01:06:30.607 --> 01:06:33.028
[SPEAKER_00]: And not because you need a better for you.

01:06:33.248 --> 01:06:34.409
[SPEAKER_00]: But because you love him.

01:06:34.429 --> 01:06:34.969
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

01:06:35.209 --> 01:06:36.169
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't about you.

01:06:36.289 --> 01:06:37.370
[SPEAKER_00]: It was about him.

01:06:37.530 --> 01:06:42.271
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's that's actual love when you're caring for somebody for their good, not just what they bring to you.

01:06:43.252 --> 01:06:48.374
[SPEAKER_00]: The point being though, if you're on the receiving end of that, and you're the friend that needs to be called up.

01:06:49.734 --> 01:07:11.284
[SPEAKER_00]: do yourself a favor to not just go and well no like you know you know what they're saying it's true and be willing to take the invitation of a friend and not go in at a loan and be stubborn about it or try to reverse it and blame them like how dare you like call me out of my stuff like no that's actually the real part of or your job in life

01:07:12.044 --> 01:07:13.105
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's to do it in a gracious way.

01:07:13.125 --> 01:07:24.815
[SPEAKER_00]: So don't be defendable in your way of doing it, but do it in a way that, so either side of this, like be gracious, if you're the one calling up, be gracious if you're the one being called up, but the point is, man, that's what we're supposed to be doing.

01:07:25.015 --> 01:07:26.156
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little uncomfortable.

01:07:26.196 --> 01:07:29.058
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got, do we talk about this last season or two?

01:07:29.078 --> 01:07:30.760
[SPEAKER_01]: He's to be eaten.

01:07:31.580 --> 01:07:40.185
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a scene where Samuel, a hero in the story, punches Adam, who's one of the protagonists in the face.

01:07:40.866 --> 01:07:42.207
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if we could, you're not, you're not sure.

01:07:42.227 --> 01:07:42.967
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't think we did.

01:07:42.987 --> 01:07:43.567
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't think we did.

01:07:43.587 --> 01:07:44.128
[SPEAKER_01]: We talked about this.

01:07:44.688 --> 01:07:46.829
[SPEAKER_01]: Many of you have read Eastiv Eden, all of you should.

01:07:46.909 --> 01:07:53.493
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a wonderful moment where a guy who stuck in the giving his life away stage.

01:07:54.174 --> 01:07:55.695
[SPEAKER_01]: He's stuck, bad things have happened to him.

01:07:55.715 --> 01:07:56.915
[SPEAKER_01]: He's had two sons.

01:07:56.935 --> 01:07:59.537
[SPEAKER_01]: He's living on a farm and he hasn't named them.

01:08:00.457 --> 01:08:01.858
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they're like two years old.

01:08:02.439 --> 01:08:16.828
[SPEAKER_01]: He is in the bitter acedius sloth of not having the life that he wanted and thus he's not taking care of his children and his neighbor comes over one day and just dex him.

01:08:17.529 --> 01:08:22.012
[SPEAKER_01]: He knocks him off his horse like punches him in the face and says go name yourself.

01:08:22.932 --> 01:08:29.077
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a awesome moment of friendship where neighbors sort of like wakes you up.

01:08:29.197 --> 01:08:36.362
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, kind of a holy righteous anger and says, bro, do a job that you've been given as a father.

01:08:36.382 --> 01:08:37.663
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really neat moment of the story.

01:08:38.564 --> 01:08:47.190
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think about a loving friend is that like once in a while, a loving friend is going to give you a right hook and be like, literally, hopefully, like we can't do it.

01:08:47.230 --> 01:08:50.333
[SPEAKER_00]: We can't condone your adult decisions, but

01:08:50.913 --> 01:08:53.475
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I agree like we need to be woken up.

01:08:53.575 --> 01:09:04.281
[SPEAKER_01]: It was I think you know in the story after years it was his wife being like I know one way to wake this guy up and I got to Because wow anyway Well, I had one spiritual discipline.

01:09:04.301 --> 01:09:18.090
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was just a little bit off the wall maybe you might not expect this But if I were to recommend one spiritual discipline to counter the vice of swath

01:09:18.871 --> 01:09:29.964
[SPEAKER_01]: It should be to read, to be able to see more, and I thought of this as like I've never met somebody who's consistently reading, who also does not consistently care.

01:09:30.825 --> 01:09:36.672
[SPEAKER_01]: Usually, I found myself or my friends to be in seasons of spiritual laziness.

01:09:37.733 --> 01:09:47.077
[SPEAKER_01]: In part because they've gotten out of the habit of reading scriptures, doing their devotions, reading good nonfiction, or reading fiction poetry history, whatever.

01:09:47.577 --> 01:09:54.600
[SPEAKER_01]: I've often seen in friends' lives, they come out of seasons of apathy because they start reading again.

01:10:04.348 --> 01:10:05.288
[SPEAKER_01]: and read something else.

01:10:05.728 --> 01:10:07.169
[SPEAKER_01]: This could be listening, okay?

01:10:07.609 --> 01:10:14.811
[SPEAKER_01]: But think out of the realm of maybe listening to an entertainment podcast or just sports podcast or even like how to for work.

01:10:15.471 --> 01:10:17.012
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm talking about something that challenges you.

01:10:17.052 --> 01:10:18.472
[SPEAKER_01]: Something that makes you think.

01:10:19.192 --> 01:10:24.414
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe reading somebody who's dead or listening to a, you know, some philosophy or some spiritual nonfiction.

01:10:25.094 --> 01:10:28.555
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to be lazy when you're in the habit of reading.

01:10:28.575 --> 01:10:30.556
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is why readers are leaders.

01:10:32.036 --> 01:10:36.801
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't meet people who are readers who are also slothful about their life.

01:10:36.942 --> 01:10:43.128
[SPEAKER_01]: Usually reading brings you that sort of soccerties place of like the unexamine life is not worth living and it makes you rise.

01:10:43.148 --> 01:10:45.251
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, I've been living an unexamined life.

01:10:45.971 --> 01:10:46.272
[SPEAKER_01]: Boo.

01:10:46.532 --> 01:10:47.293
[SPEAKER_01]: Like one stop.

01:10:47.373 --> 01:10:48.935
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I need to change that.

01:10:49.395 --> 01:10:52.338
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, if you want to practice something to get out of a sloth.

01:10:53.019 --> 01:10:53.980
[SPEAKER_01]: keep doing what you're doing right now.

01:10:54.040 --> 01:10:56.001
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen to a good podcast.

01:10:56.061 --> 01:10:57.001
[SPEAKER_01]: Pick up a great book.

01:10:57.962 --> 01:10:59.062
[SPEAKER_01]: Get in your devotions.

01:10:59.102 --> 01:11:02.464
[SPEAKER_01]: The habit of reading, I think really is an antidote to sloth.

01:11:02.664 --> 01:11:03.445
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

01:11:03.605 --> 01:11:15.311
[SPEAKER_00]: I would also just maybe to silence those who go, well, you know, Justin, you're like, of course, you're like, you love reading, you love writing, and that's, but we don't need a lot.

01:11:15.331 --> 01:11:16.472
[SPEAKER_00]: You do love those things.

01:11:16.672 --> 01:11:18.873
[SPEAKER_00]: You've learned to love them, but you take a cultivated love.

01:11:18.933 --> 01:11:19.914
[SPEAKER_01]: It's easier not to read.

01:11:20.134 --> 01:11:20.334
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:11:20.394 --> 01:11:20.554
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:11:20.814 --> 01:11:22.055
[SPEAKER_00]: But you, but you do love it.

01:11:22.075 --> 01:11:30.199
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're the person that's listening to that and go and immediately writes out what Justin just said let me just tell you something very important dear dear listener.

01:11:30.779 --> 01:11:31.459
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate reading.

01:11:32.120 --> 01:11:32.560
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard.

01:11:33.128 --> 01:11:33.889
[SPEAKER_00]: I read all the time.

01:11:33.909 --> 01:11:34.809
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.

01:11:34.869 --> 01:11:35.110
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:11:35.210 --> 01:11:37.952
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason I do isn't because I love it.

01:11:38.012 --> 01:11:45.017
[SPEAKER_00]: It's because it is the number one quickest way to be formed, changed and to grow.

01:11:45.878 --> 01:11:50.362
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I will just say as a person who is not, I don't read for entertainment.

01:11:50.542 --> 01:11:55.286
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't read when you ask me that it's like, oh, do you read fiction ever?

01:11:55.366 --> 01:11:56.807
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, nope.

01:11:57.087 --> 01:12:00.530
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I read I read for learning, like almost exclusively.

01:12:00.890 --> 01:12:02.872
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I also think it's okay to listen to books.

01:12:02.912 --> 01:12:22.448
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay to get that in your head the way you need to, but really the point is to say, if I couldn't agree more with you just because it forces you to begin to think outside of your very usually her own selves by ourselves, become very narrow in our thinking and that gets worse over time, by the way, not better, especially the more we're isolated in our own thoughts.

01:12:22.608 --> 01:12:22.788
[SPEAKER_00]: So,

01:12:23.328 --> 01:12:23.948
[SPEAKER_00]: It expands your mind.

01:12:23.968 --> 01:12:24.408
[SPEAKER_00]: It opens up.

01:12:24.428 --> 01:12:25.549
[SPEAKER_00]: It helps you see the world differently.

01:12:25.589 --> 01:12:26.949
[SPEAKER_00]: So I couldn't agree more.

01:12:27.409 --> 01:12:38.671
[SPEAKER_00]: Something that's probably, that would be supportive of this and maybe help you read more is Bill just a few very key rhythms and very, very basic.

01:12:38.691 --> 01:12:43.412
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's why I want to say that is because A lot of our moment right now, especially culturally, talks about motivation.

01:12:43.973 --> 01:12:45.713
[SPEAKER_00]: Problem is motivation leaves all the time.

01:12:46.133 --> 01:12:47.773
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I wake up in a lot.

01:12:47.833 --> 01:12:50.014
[SPEAKER_00]: Not motivated to do anything actually.

01:12:50.554 --> 01:12:58.104
[SPEAKER_00]: So it is little rhythms and, you know, from a like a biological perspective, your nervous system loves repeatable habits.

01:12:58.825 --> 01:12:59.606
[SPEAKER_00]: Your soul does too.

01:12:59.726 --> 01:12:59.947
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:13:00.688 --> 01:13:03.371
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's this guy who wrote a book, The Body Teaches of the Soul.

01:13:03.451 --> 01:13:04.072
[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty average.

01:13:04.112 --> 01:13:05.634
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think there's a lot to learn.

01:13:06.595 --> 01:13:06.975
[SPEAKER_00]: Love them.

01:13:07.736 --> 01:13:08.516
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great book.

01:13:08.576 --> 01:13:09.196
[SPEAKER_00]: It truly is.

01:13:09.336 --> 01:13:17.359
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, like as an example, it's learning what little things you need to put in place to begin to counter act slots.

01:13:17.399 --> 01:13:20.540
[SPEAKER_00]: So I know that this in one way seems basic, but I think it is.

01:13:21.180 --> 01:13:27.282
[SPEAKER_00]: I think most people that are struggling with slot, it is not because you can't do this.

01:13:27.402 --> 01:13:30.003
[SPEAKER_00]: It's because most of the time you filled it in with the wrong stuff.

01:13:30.763 --> 01:13:34.525
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's building those rhythms of like I'm going to replace, you know,

01:13:35.745 --> 01:13:37.366
[SPEAKER_00]: comfort for for rest.

01:13:37.406 --> 01:13:37.586
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

01:13:37.686 --> 01:13:43.831
[SPEAKER_00]: What is rest and identifying and naming those things and morning prayer can take five minutes.

01:13:44.451 --> 01:13:45.852
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, prayers can take five minutes.

01:13:45.872 --> 01:13:46.773
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

01:13:47.373 --> 01:13:48.294
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus just had rhythms.

01:13:48.334 --> 01:13:49.775
[SPEAKER_00]: The biggest difference was he just kept them.

01:13:50.055 --> 01:13:50.535
[SPEAKER_00]: He's just kept them.

01:13:50.775 --> 01:13:51.015
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

01:13:51.095 --> 01:13:53.917
[SPEAKER_00]: So where what are your rhythms and make them fun?

01:13:53.957 --> 01:13:54.818
[SPEAKER_00]: Make them enjoyable.

01:13:54.858 --> 01:13:56.519
[SPEAKER_00]: Make them things that you like.

01:13:56.579 --> 01:14:00.942
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm always about pairing Jesus things with things I love.

01:14:01.062 --> 01:14:02.143
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me give you two examples.

01:14:02.283 --> 01:14:06.026
[SPEAKER_00]: In the morning, it's really strong coffee to the point that just moves my life.

01:14:06.066 --> 01:14:09.970
[SPEAKER_00]: And at night, it's cigars and listen, you don't have to do any of those things or like those things.

01:14:10.530 --> 01:14:19.898
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying, I love pairing genuine, tangible beauty from the world with Jesus.

01:14:20.058 --> 01:14:22.520
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's something that honestly just helps me.

01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:26.263
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's that's that's my one or whatever however many that was.

01:14:28.797 --> 01:14:51.263
[SPEAKER_01]: brief, but no, I love that because many people think of vise as addictive substances, maybe caffeine or nicotine, for example, and we are going here on a snatch that understanding of vise out of the dumb shallow world perspective, understanding of like, vise is out there in some addictive substances and other vices in here in your heart that doesn't care about the world.

01:14:51.943 --> 01:15:05.930
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes the habit of beautiful coffee or beautiful cigar or a beautiful meal and being with friends or reading, making these habits of Scripture and community and life, that's actually a pulls you out of vice, sloth here.

01:15:07.311 --> 01:15:10.632
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody once said that poetry is truth by way of the heart.

01:15:11.073 --> 01:15:11.653
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember.

01:15:12.173 --> 01:15:24.136
[SPEAKER_01]: But when I think of these sorts of habits, reading, doing your prayer times, I think about these habits shape the heart, you know, your habits shape what you love.

01:15:25.077 --> 01:15:28.698
[SPEAKER_01]: And becoming a person who loves comfort is

01:15:30.058 --> 01:15:46.852
[SPEAKER_01]: you got there by way of habit and so you know fight fire with fire fight habit with habit put some little habits in place cultivate them to help you love something new you know we asked a gusts and a Jonathan Edwards or Tim Keller some of these great spiritual writers that came before us

01:15:47.653 --> 01:15:50.294
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, what's going on when we have the vices of sloth?

01:15:50.314 --> 01:15:52.755
[SPEAKER_01]: They would all talk about, oh, you love the wrong thing.

01:15:52.795 --> 01:15:54.316
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, you love comfort.

01:15:55.216 --> 01:16:04.159
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you loved God, if you really saw who he was, if your heart was saw the goodness of God, oh, you would be all over this that and the other.

01:16:04.500 --> 01:16:04.580
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh.

01:16:04.720 --> 01:16:07.541
[SPEAKER_01]: And these habits help you see the goodness of God.

01:16:07.561 --> 01:16:09.061
[SPEAKER_01]: They they cut their truth by way of the heart.

01:16:09.081 --> 01:16:15.604
[SPEAKER_01]: They help reform you out of your love of comfort and your love of sloth and into the love of God who calls you to an intentional life.

01:16:16.766 --> 01:16:27.837
[SPEAKER_00]: I love this and we're a lot more to say about that because I think even just for anybody listening that does struggle with addiction, like true addiction as well.

01:16:28.638 --> 01:16:39.168
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there are very real moments where you're not going to be able to engage with certain things because you have a very different disposition biology all that type of stuff.

01:16:39.808 --> 01:16:45.471
[SPEAKER_00]: So we are very much understanding that that won't work for everybody depending upon your past and your situation.

01:16:45.491 --> 01:16:47.632
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of you are going to just have to find other things.

01:16:47.772 --> 01:16:59.257
[SPEAKER_00]: But what we're trying to say is there's a difference between chronically smoking and packet cigarettes to deal with stress and slowly sitting down for an hour with a cigar as an example.

01:17:01.138 --> 01:17:10.185
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're just different, it's a different outcome, it's a different desire, it's actually not trying to numb out more, it's trying to grow deeper.

01:17:10.225 --> 01:17:21.274
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, again, I'm new on thing that just for the listener who's just like, quick to be like, don't use these phrases as excuses to do things that are not helpful for you, you know your limits, guys.

01:17:21.314 --> 01:17:27.119
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know when, I mean, maybe you don't, but we're telling you, learn your limits, your friends will tell you.

01:17:29.841 --> 01:17:50.702
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I'm excited about this season or next episode we are talking about a very very easy topic anger and come back boys next week because we all practice it or yeah we all practice it pretty obviously and then also there's a there's a kind of a what's the way there's a there's a there's a theory going on almost a conspiracy theory I think.

01:17:51.182 --> 01:18:17.121
[SPEAKER_00]: that Justin has green eyes and the most amazing thing is if you've ever seen Justin or met Justin in person or seen any photo his eyes are extremely blue but he is convinced and so is your is sweet Lauren I love Lauren you're convinced that you have green isha you're trying to provoke me to anger here and I'm just trying to see if it works it's amazing because everyone on our team has been like those are like really blue and I'm seeing blue so now I'm questioning

01:18:20.283 --> 01:18:21.684
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know.

01:18:21.924 --> 01:18:34.654
[SPEAKER_01]: So in between this week and next, send us a question on Slough or, you know, I color get ready for an episode where I get angry at Brooke while talking about anger until next time.

01:18:35.014 --> 01:18:35.614
[SPEAKER_01]: Come back next week.

01:18:35.934 --> 01:18:36.475
[SPEAKER_01]: Go and please.