WEBVTT 00:00.344 --> 00:17.563 [SPEAKER_01]: The queer family about gas Love is love is love on the queer family about gas Love is love is love on the queer family about gas Love is love is love on the queer family about gas Love is love 00:17.969 --> 00:20.710 [SPEAKER_02]: who was somebody you would love to have dinner with. 00:21.250 --> 00:26.533 [SPEAKER_02]: And for a second, obviously my brain goes to all of the celebrities and famous people I want to chat with. 00:26.573 --> 00:33.916 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I had a moment of being like, I would love to just chat with him for a minute and with our donor and just say thank you. 00:33.936 --> 00:36.197 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I don't know the reason why you donated. 00:36.237 --> 00:43.580 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what was, I know that you wrote in his file, like I'm donating because he saw somebody go through infertility and wanted to help. 00:43.901 --> 00:46.902 [SPEAKER_02]: But I was like, I don't know what, like every reason behind that was, 00:47.102 --> 00:56.700 [SPEAKER_02]: But I just want to thank you because like this family that I have right now in this child only exists because of that choice and I could not be more grateful for it. 00:57.512 --> 01:01.876 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome y'all to the queer family podcast to show all about family, but with gay. 01:02.196 --> 01:11.765 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm your gay host, Jamie, and this is the show that celebrates highlights, uplifts, and normalizes litipic aquafokes in all of our fabulous identities. 01:11.805 --> 01:14.487 [SPEAKER_00]: And I have a really fun one for you today. 01:14.767 --> 01:19.832 [SPEAKER_00]: I am sitting down with Kaylin, who you might know from social media as Kaylin and Veronica. 01:20.132 --> 01:25.998 [SPEAKER_00]: her and her wife, chronicled their lives together as a two mom family, really beautiful photos, all the things. 01:26.438 --> 01:29.441 [SPEAKER_00]: And Katelyn's little one is almost three. 01:29.902 --> 01:33.025 [SPEAKER_00]: So I imagine there might be some stories. 01:33.205 --> 01:35.427 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I remember when my kiddo was 01:36.628 --> 01:40.229 [SPEAKER_00]: going into the threes, the toddlerhood, and the talking was happening. 01:40.629 --> 01:51.973 [SPEAKER_00]: And of course we were open and honest about donor and teaching all along and some crazy things would come out of the child's mouth when we were out in public. 01:52.013 --> 01:55.374 [SPEAKER_00]: So I am excited to ask Kaylin and see if she's got anything yet. 01:55.474 --> 01:57.495 [SPEAKER_00]: It might not have happened yet, but like there was this one time. 01:57.935 --> 02:03.700 [SPEAKER_00]: we were in a cab and our daughter just started calling the man, oh, that's my dad. 02:03.980 --> 02:04.721 [SPEAKER_00]: That's my dad. 02:05.262 --> 02:08.605 [SPEAKER_00]: The cab driver started calling my dad. 02:08.645 --> 02:12.088 [SPEAKER_00]: We were like, no, no, sweet because we have to model pride in our family. 02:12.108 --> 02:14.109 [SPEAKER_00]: We're like, no, baby, you have two moms. 02:14.170 --> 02:16.391 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have a debt, you know, and then of course the 02:17.092 --> 02:18.554 [SPEAKER_00]: cab driver was like, who the? 02:18.954 --> 02:20.455 [SPEAKER_00]: Who are these crazy things? 02:20.956 --> 02:22.517 [SPEAKER_00]: And then she switched her tune. 02:22.758 --> 02:23.758 [SPEAKER_00]: Then she switched her tune. 02:23.779 --> 02:25.380 [SPEAKER_00]: She was like, no, he's not. 02:25.440 --> 02:26.481 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a pig. 02:27.983 --> 02:30.605 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we were like, oh my god, she actually really loves. 02:31.025 --> 02:32.167 [SPEAKER_00]: She loves pig so much. 02:32.187 --> 02:33.488 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so sorry, sir, but. 02:34.609 --> 02:35.950 [SPEAKER_00]: So like that's her hope. 02:37.031 --> 02:38.292 [SPEAKER_00]: That's her hope, exactly. 02:38.953 --> 02:40.855 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to see if we have any 02:41.135 --> 02:43.557 [SPEAKER_00]: And you moments like that in Kayland's life so far. 02:43.677 --> 02:50.322 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm letting you know, Kayland, because Kayland's here already, it might be common your way, because I know you're open and honest already. 02:50.602 --> 02:54.685 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm doing something new, everybody listening at home or watching at home. 02:54.965 --> 02:57.167 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually doing my intro with Kayland here. 02:57.307 --> 03:02.251 [SPEAKER_00]: Usually I record the intro after the fact, but no, we haven't had the interview yet at all. 03:02.391 --> 03:04.613 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just, I'm just flying by the seat of my pants here. 03:04.693 --> 03:07.495 [SPEAKER_00]: And so now I need to welcome Kayland. 03:07.555 --> 03:09.957 [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, welcome to the show, girl. 03:10.737 --> 03:12.838 [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, thank you so much for having me. 03:12.878 --> 03:13.838 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so happy to be here. 03:13.858 --> 03:15.179 [SPEAKER_00]: I am, too. 03:15.339 --> 03:17.300 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, we connected a while back. 03:17.860 --> 03:19.580 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been following you ever since. 03:19.600 --> 03:23.282 [SPEAKER_00]: You have such a beautiful account and you take such beautiful photos of your family. 03:23.342 --> 03:24.822 [SPEAKER_00]: I love it so much. 03:24.902 --> 03:28.264 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is going to be fun to get to know more a little more of your backstory. 03:28.704 --> 03:28.824 [SPEAKER_00]: So 03:29.364 --> 03:39.516 [SPEAKER_00]: Without further ado, let's time for your 32nd elevator pitch of where I time you and you tell us who you are and why you're here talking to the queer fam squad. 03:40.137 --> 03:41.318 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you ready, Kaylin? 03:41.959 --> 03:42.400 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm ready. 03:42.800 --> 03:45.283 [SPEAKER_00]: On your mark, get set, go! 03:46.212 --> 03:47.053 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Kaylin. 03:47.634 --> 03:55.221 [SPEAKER_02]: I am a social media manager and influencer and a lot of my story telling is based around having a queer family. 03:55.241 --> 03:56.983 [SPEAKER_02]: I am a lesbian. 03:57.043 --> 03:58.444 [SPEAKER_02]: I married to my wife Veronica. 03:58.464 --> 04:07.273 [SPEAKER_02]: We've been together for 10 years and we have a three-year-old daughter Rosalie and we have a hilarious dog raggoo who does not get enough love on our page but I like to always shout him out. 04:07.773 --> 04:18.919 [SPEAKER_02]: My main focus for work is also helping other people build their queer families and family building in general and so it's a bunch of stuff I feel really passionate about, which is why I'm so pumped to be on this show with you, Jamie. 04:19.263 --> 04:23.266 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm pumped you're here too and you packed a lot into that elevator pitch. 04:23.306 --> 04:24.346 [SPEAKER_00]: Good job, Kaylin. 04:24.967 --> 04:25.447 [SPEAKER_00]: Good job. 04:25.527 --> 04:29.210 [SPEAKER_00]: And my dog doesn't get enough love on my social either and she's crazy. 04:29.250 --> 04:32.292 [SPEAKER_00]: She is crazy is all hell crazy dog. 04:32.692 --> 04:33.232 [SPEAKER_00]: Love her to death. 04:33.432 --> 04:36.194 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to maybe I'll put a post stuff about her this week. 04:36.294 --> 04:36.635 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 04:36.815 --> 04:38.296 [SPEAKER_02]: So people can see it right too. 04:38.676 --> 04:39.376 [SPEAKER_02]: They're important. 04:40.057 --> 04:41.778 [SPEAKER_00]: They are, especially to us, lesbians. 04:43.519 --> 04:52.969 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's take it back to you and Veronica, how you got together in a nutshell, like we don't have to go into the whole novel of how it happened. 04:53.570 --> 04:55.632 [SPEAKER_02]: I could easily give you the novel, if you wanted. 04:55.692 --> 04:59.816 [SPEAKER_02]: But we funny enough, we met on Tinder about 10 years ago. 05:00.336 --> 05:04.180 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think both of us were just kind of looking to meet people. 05:04.360 --> 05:14.009 [SPEAKER_02]: And it was, you know, in classic us fashion, we met that first night and probably spoke every single day since then, we started dating very quickly. 05:14.029 --> 05:15.811 [SPEAKER_02]: So it was just, it was great. 05:16.244 --> 05:19.649 [SPEAKER_00]: You did a little e-haw situation, sounds like fit of a e-haw. 05:19.870 --> 05:24.677 [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't move in super close, but it was really quickly where I was like, oh, I love this girl. 05:24.737 --> 05:28.403 [SPEAKER_02]: If our leases weren't a problem, it would have happened sooner. 05:28.964 --> 05:30.526 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sounds, sounds lesbian to me. 05:31.122 --> 05:39.732 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it happened quickly when to talk of family building come into the picture because for us usually it comes in pretty early and it's not just that you want them. 05:39.952 --> 05:40.833 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you want them. 05:40.993 --> 05:41.574 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, okay. 05:41.594 --> 05:42.274 [SPEAKER_00]: We can move on. 05:42.335 --> 05:43.376 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no. 05:43.496 --> 05:44.617 [SPEAKER_00]: It's way more detailed. 05:44.677 --> 05:46.699 [SPEAKER_00]: So when did that start happening? 05:47.240 --> 05:48.141 [SPEAKER_02]: pretty early on. 05:48.181 --> 06:07.284 [SPEAKER_02]: I would say before we've been got engaged, we'd probably been together for a few months, and I knew at the time that I was looking to take that next step in my relationship and being a, I always knew I wanted a family, and so I knew that the person that I wanted to date, I wanted them to also kind of have that hope for the future. 06:07.564 --> 06:09.345 [SPEAKER_02]: So it did come up pretty early. 06:09.365 --> 06:14.347 [SPEAKER_02]: I will say it was a pretty seamless question or a process of like figuring it out. 06:14.607 --> 06:16.328 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't both knew that we wanted kids. 06:16.368 --> 06:19.509 [SPEAKER_02]: And Veronica was a little bit more like, I could have them. 06:20.210 --> 06:22.771 [SPEAKER_02]: But I also don't have to have them. 06:23.111 --> 06:25.752 [SPEAKER_02]: But if I'm with somebody who wants them, that's what I want. 06:26.473 --> 06:28.393 [SPEAKER_02]: And I always knew that I wanted children. 06:28.634 --> 06:30.394 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it was like a, do you want kids? 06:30.414 --> 06:31.295 [SPEAKER_02]: She was like, do you want kids? 06:31.315 --> 06:32.915 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I do and she was like, great. 06:32.996 --> 06:33.656 [SPEAKER_02]: Then I do too. 06:34.196 --> 06:51.160 [SPEAKER_02]: which was interesting because it was such something for me where I was like, I know that I want kids who's interesting to see somebody who was a little bit more, I don't want to say ambivalent but a little more like on the fence about it because looking at her now, she was like to me like made to be Rosie's mom. 06:51.620 --> 06:54.841 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's really interesting like or like funny to kind of think back on that. 06:55.301 --> 06:59.982 [SPEAKER_02]: And then we had to have the conversation of like who wants to carry and how will we go about that? 07:04.783 --> 07:17.490 [SPEAKER_02]: be pregnant and get birth and I knew I wanted that and Veronica knows that she did not want that and so again it was like pretty it was a pretty easy conversation we didn't really have to go back and forth on anything. 07:17.630 --> 07:30.197 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the best way it can happen right like if we're on the same page okay that works great yeah but yeah I mean that was how that conversation went and then all of the other things that come up with like LGBTQ family building happened as we started the process. 07:30.609 --> 07:30.889 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 07:31.089 --> 07:33.830 [SPEAKER_00]: So how long were you together before you started the process? 07:34.290 --> 07:37.232 [SPEAKER_02]: It was probably in 2020 that we started. 07:37.292 --> 07:39.933 [SPEAKER_02]: So we would have been together for about four years at the time. 07:40.313 --> 07:45.775 [SPEAKER_02]: So we got engaged like a year and a half after we started dating and then got married a year after that. 07:46.455 --> 07:51.077 [SPEAKER_02]: And then so yeah, it would be about like I guess like five years ago, which is crazy five or six years ago. 07:51.617 --> 07:52.797 [SPEAKER_02]: And it was funny. 07:52.897 --> 07:53.938 [SPEAKER_02]: It was because 07:54.618 --> 08:13.016 [SPEAKER_02]: After we got married, so one of the reasons why are ticked or our Instagram started performing so well was because of the wedding dress I wore so I wore red wedding dress to my wedding And it kind of blew up a little bit in some of the LGBTQ like Instagram accounts at the time I got married in 2019 at the time. 08:13.036 --> 08:14.738 [SPEAKER_02]: There were a lot of like shout out accounts 08:15.198 --> 08:17.139 [SPEAKER_02]: And that just got posted a bunch of times. 08:17.840 --> 08:27.446 [SPEAKER_02]: And because of that, one of the marketing people from California Cryobink reached out and asked if we ever wanted to work with them and be influencers for them. 08:27.846 --> 08:31.709 [SPEAKER_02]: And at the time we had just started talking on Instagram about our family building journey. 08:31.749 --> 08:35.792 [SPEAKER_02]: So it helped us get the information that we could start the process. 08:35.812 --> 08:37.273 [SPEAKER_02]: I think had we not done that. 08:37.353 --> 08:39.354 [SPEAKER_02]: It would have taken us a little longer to figure it out. 08:39.614 --> 08:47.121 [SPEAKER_02]: But because you went in that process, it was a really fun way to, I guess like, dive into learning about how to women build a family. 08:47.502 --> 09:10.704 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, yeah, because so you didn't you hadn't done much research at that time and there were even five years ago still there was not that much I mean there's more now there is more and there was a good amount then but we still have a ways to go when it comes to like visibility and how we build our families and all of the many options because there are so many options so many options. 09:11.244 --> 09:14.209 [SPEAKER_00]: way more than you think too, which I think is so interesting. 09:14.590 --> 09:14.870 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 09:14.930 --> 09:24.627 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I have learned so much on this show from people and how they've gone about building their families and they're also unique in their own beautiful ways and it's really awesome. 09:25.123 --> 09:32.107 [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, you got approached by a sperm bank and that was like, hey, if you're thinking of building a family, we're a sperm. 09:32.167 --> 09:34.148 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you kind of just fell into that path. 09:34.168 --> 09:35.448 [SPEAKER_00]: Was there talk? 09:35.468 --> 09:42.812 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you ever just sit down and talk about different options or was it just an easy, like, straight and narrow path to donor sperm? 09:43.291 --> 09:46.132 [SPEAKER_02]: I think, for us, it was a pretty straight narrow path to that. 09:46.673 --> 09:59.718 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't really think of another way to go about it and what we did, which I think is, again, really interesting as being someone who's been on social media for so long, is when we first started thinking about, okay, we want to have a family, we want to build our family, how do we start that? 09:59.878 --> 10:10.023 [SPEAKER_02]: I immediately went on Instagram and I found other lesbian couples who I followed who had children, or how they were planning it, and we basically did a lot of what they did. 10:10.563 --> 10:23.891 [SPEAKER_02]: which is how we started sharing our journey as well was like okay if I'm going to Instagram for this there have to be other people who are doing the same thing who don't even know how to start like I didn't know if we started at a sperm bank. 10:23.991 --> 10:26.793 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know if we started with the fertility clinic. 10:26.873 --> 10:29.194 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know how to I was like you're a star. 10:29.254 --> 10:30.535 [SPEAKER_00]: I am like where do you go? 10:31.055 --> 10:32.415 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I didn't know what the first step was. 10:32.435 --> 10:35.556 [SPEAKER_02]: Do I just start tracking my ovulation and order some vials? 10:35.576 --> 10:37.517 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I had no idea how it worked. 10:38.077 --> 10:41.117 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it was really like, I went to Instagram and we started there. 10:41.718 --> 10:46.959 [SPEAKER_02]: And then we had kind of put like, okay, we have the opportunity for sperm vials. 10:47.019 --> 10:48.899 [SPEAKER_02]: We were looking at a few different sperm banks, too. 10:49.299 --> 10:55.661 [SPEAKER_02]: And then with my fertility clinic and they lined up and they were like, yes, you should do this cryobing sounds great. 10:56.221 --> 11:00.262 [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, that's kind of how we started that like a initial conversation. 11:01.242 --> 11:03.903 [SPEAKER_02]: It came from social which I always find really interesting. 11:04.144 --> 11:07.545 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I call that LGBTQ drafting or gay drafting. 11:07.945 --> 11:12.748 [SPEAKER_00]: When you go to the people who've done it before you and you kind of follow their paths. 11:13.208 --> 11:16.169 [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't do it through social media because honestly, I don't. 11:16.570 --> 11:21.672 [SPEAKER_00]: When we started, my kids are older and I wasn't even very much on social media back then. 11:21.772 --> 11:23.513 [SPEAKER_00]: Now I am because of this, but like. 11:24.013 --> 11:27.275 [SPEAKER_00]: When we started, we just went to our friends who had done it before us. 11:27.335 --> 11:31.098 [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't look at accounts, but we did the same exact hat. 11:31.118 --> 11:33.559 [SPEAKER_00]: Like we did the same paths with some differences. 11:33.619 --> 11:36.301 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I jokingly call that gay drafting. 11:36.321 --> 11:37.082 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's just you. 11:37.482 --> 11:38.302 [SPEAKER_00]: He just do with it. 11:38.482 --> 11:40.104 [SPEAKER_01]: What the couples did before you. 11:40.144 --> 11:41.705 [SPEAKER_00]: People did before you, right? 11:42.485 --> 11:49.172 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's so common and we kind of have to do that because to the point, there is little out there, little out there for us. 11:49.252 --> 11:54.737 [SPEAKER_00]: So we lean so heavily on community when it comes to building our families. 11:55.638 --> 11:57.420 [SPEAKER_00]: You decided we're going to do this bank. 11:58.541 --> 12:00.222 [SPEAKER_00]: We found our fertility clinic. 12:00.403 --> 12:02.004 [SPEAKER_00]: You know you're going to be the one carrying. 12:02.064 --> 12:03.566 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be your egg as well. 12:03.646 --> 12:04.226 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm assuming. 12:04.246 --> 12:04.627 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 12:05.398 --> 12:08.299 [SPEAKER_00]: your egg, how did the donor search go? 12:08.359 --> 12:09.599 [SPEAKER_00]: Can we go into that? 12:09.739 --> 12:13.321 [SPEAKER_00]: I call this lovingly, the search for the superhuman. 12:13.941 --> 12:15.641 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes we get coco. 12:15.741 --> 12:16.542 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes we don't. 12:17.802 --> 12:20.023 [SPEAKER_02]: We definitely sometimes get coco with that. 12:20.823 --> 12:21.303 [SPEAKER_02]: 100%. 12:21.463 --> 12:23.164 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we can absolutely dive in. 12:23.304 --> 12:26.205 [SPEAKER_02]: I had a really interesting journey with finding our donor. 12:26.525 --> 12:27.145 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, really? 12:27.738 --> 12:50.692 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so we went in with that initial and it's something I also like recommend to people is I'm like, go in with this little checklist that you have so we went in with the checklist of like what we wanted in a donor and we started with it being like pretty vague general idea of what this person looked like actually that's not entirely true the first time we didn't I went in being like I would like to find my wife as a man. 12:51.012 --> 13:06.305 [SPEAKER_02]: Yep, that was what I wanted and it becomes like pretty early on you either find that person or you don't and funny enough we actually found that person and it was really crazy to me because I remember reading through this donor portfolio and 13:07.086 --> 13:18.516 [SPEAKER_02]: It was as if my wife had written it like every like hobby that they liked every like everything from like favorite food to what they do in their spare time to like the qualities that they liked in themselves. 13:18.996 --> 13:20.337 [SPEAKER_02]: They had like staff impressions. 13:20.517 --> 13:25.001 [SPEAKER_02]: All of that I was reading it and I was like oh my gosh this is Veronica like how cool is that? 13:25.301 --> 13:33.048 [SPEAKER_02]: And we put a bunch of miles on hold and our genetic testing was fine but our CMV status didn't line up. 13:33.884 --> 13:41.630 [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember for a little bit being like, so CMV is basically, it's a virus, and it can cause some issues. 13:41.670 --> 13:43.271 [SPEAKER_02]: And it was something that I was very mindful of. 13:43.311 --> 13:45.312 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, my doctor was very mindful of it. 13:45.672 --> 13:49.175 [SPEAKER_02]: And they recommended like not moving forward with that donor. 13:49.255 --> 13:52.237 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was very, I was really upset about that. 13:52.257 --> 13:55.139 [SPEAKER_02]: And I kind of went back and forth of being like, no, I want that donor. 13:55.279 --> 13:57.721 [SPEAKER_02]: I really do, maybe it won't matter. 13:58.121 --> 13:59.642 [SPEAKER_02]: And we ended up talking to our doctor. 14:01.463 --> 14:04.825 [SPEAKER_02]: If you'd like to, we can move forward with this, but it is not what I recommend. 14:05.466 --> 14:10.789 [SPEAKER_02]: And so after that conversation, we talked for a little bit and we ended up not moving photos that donor. 14:10.849 --> 14:19.075 [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember that first round of like heartbreak of like, oh my gosh, I really thought we were going to get lucky. 14:19.155 --> 14:23.177 [SPEAKER_02]: And like this like perfect donor was just going to fall from the sky for us. 14:23.658 --> 14:25.779 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was really excited about it. 14:25.859 --> 14:26.980 [SPEAKER_02]: And that not happening. 14:27.000 --> 14:27.861 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, 14:30.189 --> 14:36.130 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is your first taste of queer family building and all the bumps and the hills. 14:36.697 --> 14:40.038 [SPEAKER_02]: the first taste of that is really, you know, the first words. 14:40.458 --> 14:46.040 [SPEAKER_00]: When you're choosing a donor and you finally choose your donor, you do get pretty married to that person. 14:46.060 --> 14:52.662 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you go through a lot of thought and a lot of things to figure out who this person's gonna be. 14:53.122 --> 14:56.623 [SPEAKER_00]: We had to go back and choose someone else too for a different reason actually. 14:57.424 --> 15:01.205 [SPEAKER_00]: We had chosen, we hadn't thought the open versus 15:01.785 --> 15:02.625 [SPEAKER_02]: I do disclosure. 15:02.685 --> 15:03.246 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thank you. 15:03.286 --> 15:04.246 [SPEAKER_00]: We hadn't thought that through. 15:04.886 --> 15:06.547 [SPEAKER_00]: We had done what our best friends did. 15:06.607 --> 15:07.668 [SPEAKER_00]: We just went to a bank. 15:07.688 --> 15:10.269 [SPEAKER_00]: We thought we were doing the exact same thing as them. 15:10.489 --> 15:11.629 [SPEAKER_00]: And I fell in love with this guy. 15:11.729 --> 15:13.010 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, this is him. 15:13.070 --> 15:14.350 [SPEAKER_00]: This is going to owe my God. 15:14.390 --> 15:15.271 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be amazing. 15:15.811 --> 15:19.012 [SPEAKER_00]: We were talking of through the choice and because we had told them we finally picked. 15:19.473 --> 15:21.773 [SPEAKER_00]: And they said, oh, yeah, no, we chose open ideas. 15:22.094 --> 15:24.675 [SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, he has to be able to 15:25.435 --> 15:27.536 [SPEAKER_00]: get to know the person, he has to have the option. 15:27.877 --> 15:30.058 [SPEAKER_00]: And Anna and I locked dies across the table. 15:30.078 --> 15:31.879 [SPEAKER_00]: We were like, oh, shit. 15:32.159 --> 15:33.380 [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't think that part through. 15:33.400 --> 15:35.121 [SPEAKER_00]: Because there's so many things, you know? 15:35.662 --> 15:37.163 [SPEAKER_00]: So we had to go back to the drawing board. 15:37.183 --> 15:39.424 [SPEAKER_00]: But I, to this day, I still think of that guy. 15:39.804 --> 15:40.865 [SPEAKER_00]: I still think of him. 15:40.905 --> 15:44.287 [SPEAKER_00]: And I still think, kind of, I wonder what it would be like if I had one with him. 15:44.427 --> 15:45.808 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? 15:45.868 --> 15:46.409 [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny. 15:46.489 --> 15:47.849 [SPEAKER_00]: You do get kind of married to them. 15:47.909 --> 15:49.090 [SPEAKER_00]: And I love the donor we have. 15:49.250 --> 15:50.231 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and I love my kids. 15:50.391 --> 15:51.532 [SPEAKER_00]: But that being said. 15:52.013 --> 15:53.014 [SPEAKER_02]: No, it totally is. 15:53.035 --> 15:59.864 [SPEAKER_02]: I remember being like really upset about that and having a hard time and being like, oh my gosh, I can't believe we have to go back and start this again. 15:59.924 --> 16:08.356 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the other part of it is like as we were comparing them, we were making other reasons for why we didn't want another donor. 16:08.796 --> 16:11.118 [SPEAKER_02]: to like also sell us on the one that we chose. 16:11.358 --> 16:17.324 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's hard to be like, well, we didn't want him because of blah, blah, blah, blah and then all of a sudden you're like, all right, throw them back in the mix. 16:17.364 --> 16:18.525 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's compare them again. 16:18.905 --> 16:22.469 [SPEAKER_02]: But we ended up having a pretty hard time getting pregnant. 16:22.549 --> 16:32.178 [SPEAKER_02]: And so we ended up having we chose four different donors before landing on the donor that we ended up having our daughter with. 16:32.978 --> 17:01.084 [SPEAKER_02]: And it was really it hit a point and this is where I think I may have mentioned this at the beginning of my monologue, but like we had this really specific checklist of Veronica and then it got really broad it got really broad it was like we want to make sure he doesn't have these genetic markers because they're the same as mine we have to make sure if it's the MV status and we need to like there were certain like education things that I wanted certain interests that I wanted and I really wanted the 17:02.724 --> 17:05.667 [SPEAKER_02]: staff impressions to impact me. 17:05.947 --> 17:08.369 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I was like going through like a handful of things. 17:08.409 --> 17:19.119 [SPEAKER_02]: I had like four or five different donors who I really like and then I went to the staff impressions in our donor and one other donor group both described as kind on the staff impression. 17:19.139 --> 17:20.180 [SPEAKER_02]: They were like this person was very 17:20.320 --> 17:26.323 [SPEAKER_02]: kind when he came in, he was considerate, he was mindful of other people and I really I really appreciate that quality. 17:26.683 --> 17:34.746 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I basically went to like our genetic counselor and I was like, let me know which one like you would recommend and she was like they're both great. 17:35.087 --> 17:40.249 [SPEAKER_02]: It's coming down to you and I truly went off of the fact that one of them had confirmed pregnancies. 17:40.929 --> 17:55.411 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I wanted that because I wanted to know that someone had also gotten pregnant with his vials, but I also liked the idea and I know this can be surprising to some people, but I like the idea of my donor having my daughter having donor siblings. 17:55.771 --> 18:05.956 [SPEAKER_02]: and knowing that there are other people who have gone through this experience that she could relate to and we also made sure our bank had a sibling registry so that they could connect with those people. 18:05.996 --> 18:16.801 [SPEAKER_02]: So that was ended up being our, I think our fourth or fifth donor, which is so funny, I lost the count because in the moment I was like, I can't believe this is happening, but I can't imagine doing this with anybody else. 18:17.201 --> 18:17.501 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 18:17.701 --> 18:23.523 [SPEAKER_00]: And in the moment, it feels like every single thing, every single decision is so important. 18:23.744 --> 18:27.165 [SPEAKER_00]: And then now to your point, you don't even remember how many it was back. 18:27.205 --> 18:31.567 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like once the kid is here, a lot of it just washes away. 18:31.587 --> 18:32.027 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 18:32.067 --> 18:32.367 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks. 18:32.916 --> 18:34.997 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't imagine a different version of her. 18:35.097 --> 18:37.257 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so, it's so crazy. 18:37.417 --> 18:40.719 [SPEAKER_00]: You get your kid and then that's it, that's your kid. 18:41.399 --> 18:53.963 [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of want to double down here on you, choosing your path mainly because you do want donor siblings and I know that's controversial for some people and a lot of people will, you know. 18:54.863 --> 18:58.465 [SPEAKER_00]: Push back and say, well, you could have hundreds of them and I get it. 18:58.525 --> 19:01.887 [SPEAKER_00]: There are arguments for everything, but I'm in the same boat as you. 19:01.907 --> 19:12.833 [SPEAKER_00]: I like the idea and please don't send me any hate mail or anything, but I like the idea of my kids having the possibility of getting to know their donor siblings. 19:13.233 --> 19:32.302 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've spoken to people on this show and that's that thought has been formed through like all of the interviews I've done on this show with Ligipetaclaw folks and all of the people I interviewed who used donor sperm also happened to be LGBTQIA plus and also happened to be very open on and honest with their children about their donor conception stories. 19:32.522 --> 19:39.266 [SPEAKER_00]: So that is just saying that out loud I've spoken to people who like there was this one couple who said that 19:40.346 --> 19:53.961 [SPEAKER_00]: They felt this really special closeness with the other donor families because they all had that one thing in common, which is the fact that they all chose the same person. 19:54.581 --> 20:02.650 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that bonded them in some way and I loved that way of looking at it because you could have chosen anyone. 20:03.110 --> 20:07.012 [SPEAKER_00]: But you and this person and this person all chose this person. 20:07.073 --> 20:15.077 [SPEAKER_00]: There's there's reasons there and there's like some simpaticonus in that that I absolutely love, right? 20:15.418 --> 20:20.181 [SPEAKER_00]: And to each their own and no judgment on whatever anybody chooses and how you choose your path. 20:20.761 --> 20:22.642 [SPEAKER_00]: But I like that you said that, Kaylin. 20:23.042 --> 20:24.984 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't, you know, I think that. 20:25.704 --> 20:43.446 [SPEAKER_00]: With all these options, there's this new layer of judgment that is coming through our community, which I think I'm personally on a mission to get rid of because everybody's path is beautiful and valid and it deserves kindness and respect. 20:44.458 --> 20:53.821 [SPEAKER_00]: And as long as you're placing the child first, and you are being open and honest and loving with your child, I don't think you can do wrong. 20:54.101 --> 20:55.462 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just want to throw that out there. 20:55.802 --> 21:00.063 [SPEAKER_00]: And no judgment people, don't be saying your path was better than another. 21:00.523 --> 21:01.164 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on now. 21:01.504 --> 21:04.885 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, though, I'm with you 100%, I agree. 21:04.945 --> 21:09.787 [SPEAKER_02]: And there is also, I agree, there is no right way to do this. 21:10.427 --> 21:10.627 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 21:11.113 --> 21:17.538 [SPEAKER_02]: And there isn't a way to have all of the information all at once, like it just doesn't happen that way. 21:17.579 --> 21:24.965 [SPEAKER_02]: So as we're learning more opinions might change, the process might change, but that doesn't, I can't change what we've already done. 21:25.515 --> 21:42.245 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's like the really important thing to notice and remember and I will say like the relationship that I have with our donor siblings and their families is beautiful like really special to me and really special to us and to have other people to just like bounce ideas off of like for instance. 21:42.965 --> 22:04.918 [SPEAKER_02]: When Rosie was like one and a half, we were talking about teething in the group and like all of our kids had the same response to teething and it was so like interesting like here all of us be like, oh and this is what worked and this is how our daughter responded and this is how our son responded and Rosie knows like what her donor siblings look like and can name them and it's really it's a really 22:05.578 --> 22:06.438 [SPEAKER_02]: really special. 22:06.598 --> 22:20.201 [SPEAKER_02]: I think relationship to have with people when you're coming from something where, again, we don't know everything there is to know it's really nice to have other people that you can look at and see like, we're all in this together It's really special. 22:20.562 --> 22:26.543 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you've gained a family, you've gained more family than you would have, and yeah, and I see that as a beautiful thing. 22:26.963 --> 22:30.951 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, for queer people, our found family is like one of the most important things. 22:31.151 --> 22:36.803 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think it also layers itself up in that circumstance. 22:37.272 --> 22:38.993 [SPEAKER_00]: 100% 100% okay. 22:39.274 --> 22:39.754 [SPEAKER_00]: Amazing. 22:40.334 --> 22:40.955 [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay. 22:40.995 --> 22:43.537 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you said it took you a while to get pregnant. 22:43.557 --> 22:45.078 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to talk about that a little bit? 22:45.518 --> 22:46.079 [SPEAKER_00]: It is brutal. 22:46.119 --> 22:49.982 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it took us about two years to get pregnant. 22:50.502 --> 22:58.548 [SPEAKER_02]: And at first I went in like just being like, okay, we'll do some IUIs, we'll do low medication, see how it goes, and they just weren't taking. 22:58.948 --> 23:04.212 [SPEAKER_02]: And then we ended up having, I had to get a surgery on my uterus. 23:04.312 --> 23:14.479 [SPEAKER_02]: I had to have polyps removed, and so that was an additional layer to that, and it was interesting because I was hitting a point where, I think once you have the statistics in your head, right? 23:14.519 --> 23:20.443 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, everybody who's going to get pregnant on IUI, the highest chances in the first three. 23:20.831 --> 23:25.974 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I remember hitting that number three and when it didn't happen, being like, oh, there's something wrong. 23:26.174 --> 23:27.434 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I know there's something wrong. 23:27.935 --> 23:29.576 [SPEAKER_02]: But nothing was coming back wrong. 23:29.616 --> 23:30.836 [SPEAKER_02]: My blood work was fine. 23:31.257 --> 23:32.617 [SPEAKER_02]: And so we kept trying. 23:33.017 --> 23:35.239 [SPEAKER_02]: And it just, it wasn't happening. 23:35.299 --> 23:37.740 [SPEAKER_02]: We had a chemical pregnancy. 23:38.240 --> 23:40.741 [SPEAKER_02]: And then that was, and that was hard. 23:40.782 --> 23:41.822 [SPEAKER_02]: It was like one of those. 23:41.842 --> 23:42.923 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so interesting because, 23:43.783 --> 23:52.145 [SPEAKER_02]: Now that up my daughter, it's not that I don't think about that pain, but I see it as another just like step to grow our family. 23:52.445 --> 23:54.166 [SPEAKER_02]: To get where you are now, right? 23:54.246 --> 23:54.846 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. 23:54.926 --> 23:56.366 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's a really interesting. 23:56.386 --> 24:03.448 [SPEAKER_02]: I remember at the time it like absolutely devastated me, but now it it feels like I look at that moment. 24:03.548 --> 24:03.848 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm 24:05.297 --> 24:16.608 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to say I'm grateful for it because I'm not, but every bit of my fertility journey to have our daughter, I feel stronger because of, and so I guess in that there is a level of gratitude. 24:16.929 --> 24:24.236 [SPEAKER_00]: I hear that I hear that I wouldn't have this podcast if it weren't for my struggle to get pregnant and I am so glad to have this, right? 24:24.316 --> 24:24.917 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah. 24:25.057 --> 24:25.938 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's special. 24:25.998 --> 24:27.999 [SPEAKER_00]: There is hindsight when you get through it. 24:28.039 --> 24:30.061 [SPEAKER_00]: There is, there is hindsight. 24:30.141 --> 24:35.425 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're in a hard place right now, just know there, you'll get to a place of hindsight. 24:35.825 --> 24:36.066 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 24:36.266 --> 24:43.171 [SPEAKER_02]: And you can look back on those moments, because I remember, I remember in that part of the fertility journey being like, I don't know if I can do this again. 24:43.491 --> 24:50.917 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't know if I can, if I can keep doing this and in retrospect, I'm like, I would do that all again in a heartbeat. 24:51.077 --> 24:53.159 [SPEAKER_02]: Without questioning it, I would do it again. 24:53.619 --> 24:55.761 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which is how I felt while I was giving birth to. 24:56.041 --> 25:00.184 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like a funny like a funny feeling of being like, I'm never doing this again. 25:00.205 --> 25:04.228 [SPEAKER_02]: And then she was right in front of me and I was like, I will do this every day forever for this feeling. 25:04.348 --> 25:07.831 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it is that feeling back that you meant during the birth. 25:07.911 --> 25:09.332 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, we're not the same. 25:09.552 --> 25:10.853 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not the same. 25:10.893 --> 25:11.894 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, after one. 25:12.375 --> 25:14.857 [SPEAKER_02]: When she was finally here, I was like, that no big deal. 25:15.117 --> 25:15.197 [SPEAKER_02]: It. 25:15.277 --> 25:18.680 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it matters or it was worth it. 25:19.200 --> 25:26.806 [SPEAKER_02]: But I ended up having to get the surgery done and at that point we were like we kept going through donors and I was like, okay, so none of these donors were working for me. 25:27.306 --> 25:28.887 [SPEAKER_02]: Something has to be wrong with me. 25:28.907 --> 25:36.513 [SPEAKER_02]: I was so convinced that there was something wrong and what was happening was with our insurance at the time. 25:36.553 --> 25:43.679 [SPEAKER_02]: We had to prove infertility, which meant that we had to try 12 times to get pregnant before we could get any form of IVF coverage. 25:43.699 --> 25:47.802 [SPEAKER_02]: Which I thought was really, I was like, okay, we definitely can't get pregnant naturally. 25:48.422 --> 26:11.639 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to work in being trying since we met, it's not working, but I remember that happening and hitting a point of like we were, I didn't know probably seven or eight rounds of IUI and I was just like whatever, we'll just keep them going and hope for the best just to get to that 12 point and then quite randomly we did one in December of 2022. 26:13.920 --> 26:18.083 [SPEAKER_02]: and like two weeks later I remember being like I feel weird. 26:18.103 --> 26:19.104 [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't even two weeks later. 26:19.124 --> 26:20.805 [SPEAKER_02]: It was probably like seven or eight days later. 26:20.825 --> 26:21.826 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like I feel weird. 26:22.026 --> 26:23.187 [SPEAKER_02]: Something feels weird. 26:23.707 --> 26:27.310 [SPEAKER_02]: And that ended up being being rosy. 26:27.690 --> 26:28.311 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh wow. 26:28.371 --> 26:29.571 [SPEAKER_00]: That's nice. 26:29.591 --> 26:31.753 [SPEAKER_00]: So you didn't ever have to go to the IVF. 26:32.153 --> 26:33.334 [SPEAKER_00]: This is more invasive. 26:33.874 --> 26:35.255 [SPEAKER_00]: I did multiple IVFs. 26:35.295 --> 26:37.397 [SPEAKER_00]: I did way too many IVFs. 26:37.937 --> 26:40.940 [SPEAKER_00]: But my insurance didn't pay for the IVFs. 26:41.855 --> 26:45.038 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, and that whole, like, you have to try 12 times. 26:45.058 --> 26:58.813 [SPEAKER_00]: That's so biased against LGBTQIA plus people, because, you know, the straight couple can try at home, and not have to go to the fertility clinic every time and spend money on sperm and other things. 26:58.833 --> 26:59.554 [SPEAKER_02]: That was a big offer. 26:59.894 --> 27:00.795 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, exactly. 27:00.855 --> 27:02.376 [SPEAKER_02]: So were your IUIs covered? 27:03.037 --> 27:04.578 [SPEAKER_02]: they were for the most part. 27:04.618 --> 27:06.679 [SPEAKER_02]: We had pretty good coverage on that. 27:06.940 --> 27:28.173 [SPEAKER_02]: Not everything was, but it's still, you know, I remember even just being like, oh my gosh, we have to wake up at five in the morning to drive two hours out to the clinic that actually all of my testing was happening closer, but the actual process was was like an hour away and being like, oh, that's what like our morning's going to look like and it's just it's time consuming and expensive and it isn't I think 27:31.135 --> 27:32.417 [SPEAKER_02]: trying to stress out about it. 27:32.437 --> 27:40.666 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I'm waking up at four in the morning to drive out to basking Ridge, New Jersey, to have a doctor and some innate me. 27:40.767 --> 27:41.948 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I am stressed out. 27:42.008 --> 27:43.810 [SPEAKER_02]: I have to get a ton of blood work every day. 27:43.830 --> 27:46.734 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I have, I'm waking up at like 6 a.m. to be 27:48.175 --> 27:50.957 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, like looked at like it's, it is a stressful process. 27:50.977 --> 27:56.642 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're getting a vaginal, you know, what's your fraud every three or four times a week. 27:56.722 --> 27:57.563 [SPEAKER_02]: Concentrate. 27:57.623 --> 27:59.684 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's, it's not romantic. 27:59.804 --> 28:00.785 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not romantic at all. 28:01.185 --> 28:02.466 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's what we deal with, right? 28:02.506 --> 28:04.928 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we deal with in clear family building. 28:04.988 --> 28:09.792 [SPEAKER_00]: And we do it because we know it's going to be beautiful when we're finally there. 28:10.332 --> 28:13.075 [SPEAKER_00]: So you found out you were pregnant. 28:16.599 --> 28:17.320 [SPEAKER_00]: Baby was born. 28:17.960 --> 28:18.681 [SPEAKER_02]: Rosie was here. 28:18.701 --> 28:18.781 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 28:18.981 --> 28:19.241 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 28:19.281 --> 28:19.782 [SPEAKER_00]: He was here. 28:19.802 --> 28:20.883 [SPEAKER_00]: Amazing. 28:20.963 --> 28:22.664 [SPEAKER_00]: And how's it going? 28:23.105 --> 28:34.114 [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't ask you, actually, if Veronica never had any, like, misgivings about being the non-bioparent that she's shared with you, you can't really speak for her, I know. 28:34.194 --> 28:37.437 [SPEAKER_00]: So, but I always try to bring up the non-bioconection a little bit. 28:37.897 --> 28:39.238 [SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting. 28:39.378 --> 28:40.779 [SPEAKER_02]: I think we've talked about it. 28:40.819 --> 28:48.885 [SPEAKER_02]: We actually talk about this on our on our Instagram pretty frequently about Veronica's relationship with Rosie and being the non-bioparent. 28:49.245 --> 28:54.449 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think at the time, I should have really expressed some like, 28:55.309 --> 29:05.806 [SPEAKER_02]: It was never a concern, I think, that she wasn't going to bond with Rosie, but rather what it would look like and where she would fit in as the non-biomum. 29:06.047 --> 29:09.212 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it wasn't, I wouldn't say it was at any point like 29:10.406 --> 29:20.296 [SPEAKER_02]: a fear that the relationship wouldn't be there, but just that kind of like unknown, which I think was really, really interesting for her to experience. 29:20.456 --> 29:28.284 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think I said this at the beginning, but like when I see the two of them together, like they're made for each other, they're just as goofy as each other are. 29:28.324 --> 29:30.506 [SPEAKER_02]: They're, they've laughed at the same things. 29:30.546 --> 29:31.628 [SPEAKER_02]: And like I really, 29:32.228 --> 29:34.771 [SPEAKER_02]: I love their relationships so much. 29:35.432 --> 29:38.595 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if there was ever a big concern of like this not happening. 29:38.956 --> 29:48.206 [SPEAKER_02]: I think one of the things that she always wants to tell people is like, you can be afraid of it, but this is one of the many outcomes that can come, and it's so special and beautiful. 29:48.266 --> 29:49.688 [SPEAKER_02]: That's how we try to lean into a lot. 29:49.728 --> 29:52.832 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like have the concern, the concern is valid, the fears are valid. 29:53.252 --> 30:03.556 [SPEAKER_02]: the unknown and being nervous of the unknown is so valid, but look at the people who have come before you, like just as we do in this entire experience and see what that's like for them. 30:03.576 --> 30:06.477 [SPEAKER_02]: And see how beautiful those relationships are and how special they are. 30:07.161 --> 30:23.108 [SPEAKER_02]: We did a lot of the little things too like she would always like talk to my belly and play rosy music and she came to like as many appointments as she she could come to with me and I will say she was like the best partner to a pregnant person in history. 30:36.573 --> 30:39.093 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it is important and I love that you bring it up on your account. 30:39.113 --> 31:03.078 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it is important to just just give voice to that whole bio slash non bio thing and it might not be a big issue for everyone and but for some it is and so giving voice to it and acknowledging that yes that can happen and also it's just and then seeing you know the bond of your wife and Rosie and like seeing my wife and my son's bond. 31:03.438 --> 31:07.904 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a testament to that thing we say, love makes a family. 31:07.924 --> 31:08.865 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a testament to it. 31:09.125 --> 31:09.346 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 31:10.067 --> 31:17.356 [SPEAKER_00]: I do love to show that and have it represented as much as possible because it's one of those things that just doesn't get a lot of voice or a lot of airtime. 31:18.013 --> 31:18.713 [SPEAKER_02]: it's really important. 31:18.953 --> 31:22.495 [SPEAKER_00]: And it can make a difference in someone's life just to hear it worked out great. 31:22.595 --> 31:26.136 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like so bonded with this baby and I love this baby, right? 31:26.176 --> 31:27.877 [SPEAKER_00]: So the baby loves me just as much. 31:28.437 --> 31:29.698 [SPEAKER_00]: But all right, so let's get into it. 31:29.718 --> 31:30.618 [SPEAKER_00]: How's parenting going? 31:30.998 --> 31:32.399 [SPEAKER_00]: You got a little firecracker? 31:32.779 --> 31:33.679 [SPEAKER_02]: It is so fun. 31:34.179 --> 31:35.260 [SPEAKER_02]: It is so fun. 31:35.280 --> 31:38.801 [SPEAKER_02]: That is honestly like the way I can describe it. 31:38.861 --> 31:40.062 [SPEAKER_02]: We are having so much fun. 31:41.643 --> 31:46.908 [SPEAKER_02]: Rosie is an absolute like treat to have as a daughter. 31:46.928 --> 31:50.171 [SPEAKER_02]: I am so blessed and lucky that I get to be her mom. 31:50.651 --> 31:56.196 [SPEAKER_02]: So I grew up nannying and I loved nannying and I nannyed for infants a lot and babies a lot. 31:56.576 --> 32:01.180 [SPEAKER_02]: And I knew I was going to be good at being like a mom to a newborn and a baby. 32:01.280 --> 32:04.203 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I really knew I was going to thrive there. 32:04.563 --> 32:08.625 [SPEAKER_02]: But I was a little hesitant about being married to a toddler. 32:09.025 --> 32:13.267 [SPEAKER_02]: I think, just like everybody else in the world right now, I get very overstimulated. 32:13.367 --> 32:20.329 [SPEAKER_02]: I get very, like too much sound and too many loud noises and the character shows and all of that, like that gave me a little anxiety. 32:21.650 --> 32:22.971 [SPEAKER_02]: which is such a silly thing to say. 32:23.331 --> 32:30.076 [SPEAKER_02]: But now that I have this two almost three-year-old, I'm having the time of my life. 32:30.576 --> 32:31.637 [SPEAKER_02]: She is so funny. 32:31.837 --> 32:36.781 [SPEAKER_02]: She asks the best questions of the things that she makes me stop and look at. 32:37.261 --> 32:42.805 [SPEAKER_02]: It's truly like the other day the moon was out during the day and she saw it and like 32:43.505 --> 32:50.852 [SPEAKER_02]: She ran inside and told me she got to see the moon during the day as if she had found like a billion dollars in our basement. 32:51.352 --> 32:53.374 [SPEAKER_02]: It was the best moment for her. 32:54.938 --> 33:00.520 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, like, as a kid, she is such a treat to have. 33:00.620 --> 33:03.202 [SPEAKER_02]: She's like a really, really great kid. 33:03.782 --> 33:06.463 [SPEAKER_00]: That's, you talk a lot nicer about your kids than I did. 33:06.503 --> 33:17.187 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think there's, I think, I do think I got, I don't ever like to say some kids are bad or good or easy or difficult or anything like that. 33:17.348 --> 33:19.128 [SPEAKER_02]: But like, Rosie loves to sleep. 33:19.809 --> 33:22.830 [SPEAKER_02]: She loves sleeping and she's loved sleeping since she came out. 33:23.390 --> 33:30.319 [SPEAKER_02]: Wow, and I think that is one of the things that like if you get a good a kid who sleeps a lot Yeah, easy sleep. 33:30.339 --> 33:34.104 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, it makes life um it is very helpful. 33:34.184 --> 33:41.252 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my second one was an easy sleep for my first one So you need to have a second one so that you can see that it's not because of you 33:44.002 --> 33:50.489 [SPEAKER_02]: You need to have a second one so that to humble you I know that's what everyone's like you better watch out for the second one Because it's great. 33:50.509 --> 33:51.770 [SPEAKER_02]: She's like eats great. 33:51.790 --> 33:52.811 [SPEAKER_02]: She sleeps great. 33:52.851 --> 33:55.774 [SPEAKER_02]: She's friendly She doesn't like every thing about her. 33:55.794 --> 34:04.283 [SPEAKER_02]: I always felt bad because I would like talk to some of my friends who had valid concerns about about having newborns and things I were really difficult for them and I would sit there and I'd be like 34:04.723 --> 34:05.984 [SPEAKER_02]: I do not relate to this. 34:06.145 --> 34:07.226 [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel so bad. 34:07.706 --> 34:21.399 [SPEAKER_02]: But it also on the flip side, I also was so prepared because of the horror stories people told me about about children, that it was also sometimes, I think, again, valid to show the other side of that. 34:21.439 --> 34:25.042 [SPEAKER_02]: That, like, it might not be the thing that you think it is. 34:25.142 --> 34:25.783 [SPEAKER_02]: It might happen. 34:25.803 --> 34:25.903 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 34:26.423 --> 34:34.266 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I thought mine was going to be a lot easier than it was, but I wouldn't trade these kids for anything, um, but our daughter put us through it. 34:34.426 --> 34:37.067 [SPEAKER_00]: She really did, but you know, and they changed. 34:37.307 --> 34:39.908 [SPEAKER_00]: So you never know, things could change for the worst of you. 34:40.188 --> 34:40.928 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't worry. 34:40.988 --> 34:44.790 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, when she turns nine, it's going to be game over for us. 34:45.010 --> 34:45.170 [SPEAKER_00]: But 34:45.550 --> 34:46.931 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, nine to fun age. 34:46.991 --> 34:52.012 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, they all have their moments, but um, and how's it going with like two moms? 34:52.032 --> 34:55.974 [SPEAKER_00]: Like how are you handling the two mom thing and like are you, you have books? 34:56.034 --> 34:59.195 [SPEAKER_00]: Like how do you tell her about where she comes from? 34:59.835 --> 35:01.075 [SPEAKER_02]: We have lots of books. 35:01.435 --> 35:03.156 [SPEAKER_02]: We have books about donor conception. 35:03.236 --> 35:07.538 [SPEAKER_02]: We talk openly in our house about her being donor conceived about her donor. 35:07.938 --> 35:11.279 [SPEAKER_02]: We talk openly to people who ask us questions about her donor. 35:11.839 --> 35:14.740 [SPEAKER_02]: I am very comfortable with people asking questions. 35:14.860 --> 35:17.242 [SPEAKER_02]: I almost wish people asked us more questions. 35:17.402 --> 35:30.510 [SPEAKER_02]: I am one of those people who's like, to me, I would rather you ask us everything that you want to ask than be unsure or not know or have to go somewhere else for them for me. 35:30.530 --> 35:31.811 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll have to be elephant in the room. 35:31.831 --> 35:33.792 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I know you want to know, I know you want to know. 35:33.852 --> 35:35.694 [SPEAKER_00]: Just ask, I'm like, at the same of me too. 35:35.714 --> 35:36.454 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to open book. 35:36.474 --> 35:37.315 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'll tell you anything. 35:37.815 --> 35:41.297 [SPEAKER_00]: As they get older though, I have really noticed that I have to pull it in. 35:41.337 --> 35:47.722 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes like my daughter's almost 13 and she's sometimes she's like, mum, they chill. 35:47.802 --> 35:49.463 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you don't have to tell them everything. 35:49.623 --> 35:49.863 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 35:50.063 --> 35:51.765 [SPEAKER_02]: She's like, no, it's my story mom. 35:52.005 --> 35:52.965 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly. 35:53.005 --> 35:54.887 [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, but when they're little, 35:55.527 --> 35:58.549 [SPEAKER_02]: we talk all about it and I love talking about her donor. 35:58.569 --> 36:16.658 [SPEAKER_02]: It was really funny the other day we were at breakfast and I was literally, I was like looking at her doing something and my wife and I were at this diner and the diner has these level cards on the table that are just like ask the person that you're eating with like random questions and one of them was something like who was somebody you would love to like have dinner with. 36:17.198 --> 36:44.748 [SPEAKER_02]: And for a second, like obviously my brain goes to like all of the celebrities and famous people I want to chat with and then I had a moment of being like I would love to just chat with him for a minute and with with our donor and just say thank you because like I don't know the reason why you donated I don't know what was like I know that you wrote in his file like I'm donating because he saw somebody go through infertility and want it to help but I was like I don't know what like every reason behind that was but I just want to thank you because like 36:45.248 --> 36:52.654 [SPEAKER_02]: This family that I have right now and this child only exists because of that choice and I could not be more grateful for it. 36:53.362 --> 37:23.002 [SPEAKER_02]: And like I told her that I was we were sitting there and I was like Rosie, you know, one of the people I really want to talk to one day is your donor if you ever wanted to meet him like that and we chose to open an ID disclosure donor for that reason too, is that I want her to have that opportunity and obviously being incredibly respectful of she decides not to go in that direction, but yeah, we talk about it pretty frequently and it's really interesting because we'll also go through the like, you know, we have you have two moms, some families have two dads, some families have a mom and a dad, 37:23.389 --> 37:26.531 [SPEAKER_02]: Some families are just one, just the other, some are grandparents. 37:26.971 --> 37:32.654 [SPEAKER_02]: But the other day we were driving home and there was like a small deer walking on the side of the road. 37:32.674 --> 37:34.755 [SPEAKER_02]: It didn't look like a baby, it was just like smaller. 37:35.256 --> 37:38.398 [SPEAKER_02]: And she was like, all that deer's looking for its mommy and daddy. 37:39.258 --> 37:42.180 [SPEAKER_02]: And I had this moment of like, oh my gosh, you're... 37:43.389 --> 37:47.353 [SPEAKER_02]: your first thought was still mommy and daddy. 37:47.914 --> 37:50.596 [SPEAKER_02]: Even though you are raised by two moms. 37:50.876 --> 37:52.178 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 37:52.558 --> 37:53.579 [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that crazy? 37:53.659 --> 37:57.803 [SPEAKER_02]: And I had that like funny moment of when people are like, oh, you're going to raise them to people. 37:57.843 --> 37:58.264 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. 37:58.284 --> 38:05.731 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, see, they see the her own normativity in everything that they do, whether it's TV shows, it's like, 38:06.171 --> 38:09.693 [SPEAKER_02]: to her having two moms still isn't the... 38:10.093 --> 38:10.653 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not the norm. 38:10.673 --> 38:12.034 [SPEAKER_02]: She sees that it's not the norm. 38:12.354 --> 38:13.534 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 38:13.755 --> 38:23.139 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're all we're doing is giving our children the opportunity to have a little bit more empathy about the different kinds of people and families that are in this world. 38:23.159 --> 38:25.280 [SPEAKER_00]: But they're still living in this heteronormative world. 38:25.600 --> 38:27.261 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's that's a really great idea. 38:27.661 --> 38:29.402 [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, it early on. 38:29.442 --> 38:31.923 [SPEAKER_02]: And I had that moment of like, the deers, 38:32.623 --> 38:35.344 [SPEAKER_02]: or the deers to moms and that was like, did you say it? 38:35.364 --> 38:37.245 [SPEAKER_02]: This doesn't have to be, no, I didn't. 38:37.545 --> 38:43.127 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I wasn't looking for their family or I think I said they might be looking for anyone and their family. 38:43.707 --> 38:44.247 [SPEAKER_00]: That's good. 38:44.287 --> 38:47.288 [SPEAKER_00]: That I would have, I would have learned it out and been like, but it could be to moms. 38:47.568 --> 38:48.789 [SPEAKER_00]: Could be looking for students. 38:48.809 --> 38:49.629 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't know. 38:49.749 --> 38:50.409 [SPEAKER_00]: How do we know? 38:50.429 --> 38:51.970 [SPEAKER_02]: You never know exactly. 38:52.690 --> 38:56.351 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think there's a part of me too that I'm like, oh, maybe I should have said it, maybe I shouldn't have. 38:56.371 --> 38:57.131 [SPEAKER_02]: But it was just funny. 38:57.191 --> 38:57.652 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, 38:59.272 --> 39:02.633 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's just what good that she didn't, honestly. 39:02.693 --> 39:07.314 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, like who knows, but we're all coming at this in our own ways, but exactly. 39:07.834 --> 39:15.255 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we actually like starts telling the kids in her school about sperm, sperm and eggs, and how they have to go together. 39:15.895 --> 39:17.775 [SPEAKER_00]: That's happened a couple of times in school. 39:17.955 --> 39:18.376 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll see. 39:18.656 --> 39:19.076 [SPEAKER_00]: It's fun. 39:19.656 --> 39:22.736 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'm sure that will be a fun call home. 39:23.156 --> 39:25.497 [SPEAKER_00]: No, because then you're just proud that your kid knows more than 39:26.657 --> 39:27.737 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that is very true. 39:28.598 --> 39:34.840 [SPEAKER_02]: I do feel I feel very like you where I'm like you get this cool vocabulary that like you've want to come up with like donor siblings. 39:34.860 --> 39:37.701 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like you get to talk about like your donor siblings. 39:37.721 --> 39:45.043 [SPEAKER_02]: You get to talk about all of these cool things about the way the world can be and the way other people live and like you're so lucky to have that. 39:45.463 --> 39:55.532 [SPEAKER_02]: like my daughter's never gonna have to worry about like coming to me and being like, mom, the person that I'm bringing home, like I'm worried about that response. 39:55.572 --> 39:57.874 [SPEAKER_02]: There's just never gonna have to be like, I might be using a donor. 39:57.894 --> 40:00.816 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's just gonna be okay. 40:01.237 --> 40:03.178 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because we're modeling it. 40:03.318 --> 40:05.040 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you can be who you want to be. 40:05.180 --> 40:05.881 [SPEAKER_00]: Be who you want to be. 40:05.901 --> 40:06.541 [SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna love you. 40:07.362 --> 40:08.983 [SPEAKER_00]: As long as you're not evil in someone. 40:09.324 --> 40:10.685 [SPEAKER_00]: But exactly won't be. 40:10.905 --> 40:11.445 [SPEAKER_00]: They won't be. 40:12.126 --> 40:13.087 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you gonna have another one? 40:13.891 --> 40:15.533 [SPEAKER_02]: We're actively talking about that. 40:15.573 --> 40:19.499 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the other big conversation on our Instagram right now is will we will we not? 40:19.779 --> 40:21.461 [SPEAKER_02]: I've always wanted a really big family. 40:21.762 --> 40:23.764 [SPEAKER_02]: I've always wanted like three to four kids. 40:23.985 --> 40:24.405 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-oh. 40:24.926 --> 40:26.728 [SPEAKER_02]: Which is crazy because now I have one. 40:26.989 --> 40:31.174 [SPEAKER_02]: And I have had a few appointments at my fertility clinics that I have been like, 40:31.895 --> 40:33.376 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I want to do this right now. 40:33.976 --> 40:36.838 [SPEAKER_02]: I do think we are going to try soon. 40:36.858 --> 40:48.324 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that, you know, without, I know that we're like at time, but I had a little bit of, I had a tough pregnancy with Rosie and I dealt with some postpartum depression after I had her. 40:48.984 --> 41:06.328 [SPEAKER_02]: that at the time I remember thinking like this is just what it is, but now that I'm on the other side of that I want to be really careful when I put myself back into the position of getting pregnant and going through pregnancy that I am better suited to deal with what those challenges might be. 41:06.648 --> 41:27.219 [SPEAKER_02]: Because at the time, I thought I could just power through it and I would be okay and now in retrospect I'm a little like maybe we make sure that we're in every version as sure and study as we can be before adding something else into the mix, especially something that like messes with your hormones so much so yeah that's smart and that's it's no joke postpartum is no joke. 41:27.579 --> 41:35.623 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a friend who her postpartum was so bad that to have their second they got a surgeon she couldn't do it again. 41:36.584 --> 41:38.205 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's really understand that. 41:38.325 --> 41:38.665 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 41:38.685 --> 41:43.488 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it took her to a really dark scary place, which nobody needs that. 41:44.049 --> 41:45.730 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why this beauty of service. 41:46.350 --> 41:46.951 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. 41:47.011 --> 41:49.433 [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's such a beautiful way to make your family. 41:49.453 --> 41:55.337 [SPEAKER_02]: It's such a beautiful way if you're facing something like that to be able to, you know, not put that much on you. 41:55.457 --> 41:58.279 [SPEAKER_02]: Because that on top of having a newborn, it's a lot. 41:58.399 --> 42:01.901 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think now that I'm on the other side of it, though, 42:03.102 --> 42:19.407 [SPEAKER_02]: approach it with more knowledge of what the experience might look like, but I want to, I think I had a conversation with a friend of mine who is a therapist who specializes in OCD in moms and having a few conversations with her. 42:19.427 --> 42:20.247 [SPEAKER_02]: It was really like, 42:21.730 --> 42:30.976 [SPEAKER_02]: by opening of like, I have, I think I have a little trauma of pregnancy and that post-postnatal experience that I need to work through before we jump into that. 42:31.456 --> 42:32.057 [SPEAKER_00]: Good for you. 42:32.097 --> 42:32.817 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, for another day. 42:33.138 --> 42:33.438 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 42:33.478 --> 42:41.783 [SPEAKER_00]: But you're going in aware that and that's it's really big and I think we all need to really really take care of ourselves is what I'm trying to say. 42:41.883 --> 42:42.544 [SPEAKER_00]: Take care ourselves. 42:42.564 --> 42:43.865 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't take care of ourselves enough. 42:44.585 --> 42:45.525 [SPEAKER_00]: This has been awesome. 42:45.605 --> 42:46.126 [SPEAKER_00]: I love you. 42:46.226 --> 42:47.066 [SPEAKER_00]: You're amazing. 42:47.766 --> 42:50.907 [SPEAKER_00]: And I will continue following you on social media. 42:50.947 --> 42:52.407 [SPEAKER_00]: So keep posting the things. 42:53.888 --> 42:57.109 [SPEAKER_00]: And where everybody can find you at Caitlin and Veronica, right? 42:57.129 --> 42:59.049 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no underscores or anything. 42:59.429 --> 43:00.170 [SPEAKER_02]: Nothing fancy. 43:00.210 --> 43:01.310 [SPEAKER_02]: Just Caitlin and Veronica. 43:01.842 --> 43:08.110 [SPEAKER_00]: go check them out over there and let's raise up all the all the queer family goodness. 43:08.190 --> 43:08.591 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go. 43:08.611 --> 43:09.512 [SPEAKER_00]: And we need it. 43:09.652 --> 43:10.554 [SPEAKER_00]: We need it in the world. 43:11.235 --> 43:11.635 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 43:11.695 --> 43:12.436 [SPEAKER_00]: This is amazing. 43:12.997 --> 43:13.978 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much, Jamie. 43:13.998 --> 43:14.779 [SPEAKER_00]: This was great. 43:18.241 --> 43:21.883 [SPEAKER_00]: Whew, well folks, I hope you enjoyed that episode as much as I enjoyed it. 43:22.243 --> 43:26.705 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you did enjoy it, feel free to listen to another or watch another. 43:26.865 --> 43:30.166 [SPEAKER_00]: I have so many episodes for your listening or viewing pleasure. 43:30.206 --> 43:31.987 [SPEAKER_00]: Just go pick one and enjoy. 43:32.267 --> 43:33.688 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot, there really is. 43:34.420 --> 43:40.886 [SPEAKER_00]: And also, if you really do like this show, please, I know I say it all the time, but please do consider supporting the show on Patreon. 43:41.246 --> 43:45.169 [SPEAKER_00]: You're just gonna go to patreon.com, slash the queer family podcast. 43:45.510 --> 43:48.833 [SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna pick a tear, you're gonna join, and you're gonna get that bonus content. 43:49.213 --> 43:52.796 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're also gonna get my love and adoration for the rest of my life. 43:54.458 --> 43:55.218 [SPEAKER_00]: I love you all. 43:55.278 --> 43:57.300 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for tuning in, keep on tuning in. 43:57.860 --> 43:58.821 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll see you next time.