WEBVTT 00:07.125 --> 00:23.397 [UNKNOWN]: Have we always had that animation or do you just do that, John, you just did it a so fancy well welcome is very special to see through podcast and new era and the very the very beginning of the animated lights yes at the end right on and look back at this moment. 00:23.497 --> 00:30.100 [UNKNOWN]: We have a very special guest today, a real celebrity, Damian Kulash Kulash. 00:30.580 --> 00:31.300 [UNKNOWN]: I accept both. 00:31.681 --> 00:34.582 [UNKNOWN]: I, apparently, when people ask me, I say Kulash. 00:34.762 --> 00:35.162 [UNKNOWN]: Kulash. 00:35.282 --> 00:37.703 [UNKNOWN]: And when I actually say my name, I say Kulash. 00:37.723 --> 00:38.603 [UNKNOWN]: Like, I'm Damian Kulash. 00:38.724 --> 00:40.324 [UNKNOWN]: And how do you pronounce it on my Kulash? 00:40.484 --> 00:40.684 [UNKNOWN]: Mmm. 00:41.145 --> 00:41.965 [UNKNOWN]: Okay. 00:42.005 --> 00:44.226 [UNKNOWN]: My wife is afraid to have figured out that pattern. 00:45.227 --> 00:49.251 [UNKNOWN]: My kids are quite clear that they would be glad, so I guess we're there. 00:49.471 --> 00:50.091 [UNKNOWN]: Why do they have it? 00:50.111 --> 00:51.272 [UNKNOWN]: Why is what's the? 00:51.453 --> 00:53.174 [UNKNOWN]: I think they just need to have an opinion about everything. 00:53.194 --> 00:58.379 [UNKNOWN]: There's seven year old twins, and if they don't know the answer to everything, then the world starts to fall apart. 00:58.760 --> 00:59.901 [UNKNOWN]: Do they think you're cool or no? 01:01.757 --> 01:02.838 [UNKNOWN]: Yes, they do. 01:02.958 --> 01:03.939 [UNKNOWN]: I like I'm not on cool. 01:03.959 --> 01:06.642 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but but they're really good at rolling their eyes. 01:06.682 --> 01:13.248 [UNKNOWN]: I'm totally, you know, like they're I really love love love to embarrass them and it's pretty easy. 01:13.708 --> 01:16.451 [UNKNOWN]: What age do you think that it won't be cool anymore? 01:17.031 --> 01:18.152 [UNKNOWN]: Give me thoughts on it. 01:19.814 --> 01:20.834 [UNKNOWN]: It's coming fast coming. 01:20.915 --> 01:21.415 [UNKNOWN]: It's coming fast. 01:21.475 --> 01:22.236 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, I don't know. 01:22.276 --> 01:22.396 [UNKNOWN]: Like 01:24.449 --> 01:36.339 [UNKNOWN]: I don't know, if it's about music or pop culture, like I would assume that that is a pretty like distinct moment in the fifth grade range where it's something like you have to, like my kids are in second grade. 01:36.720 --> 01:47.089 [UNKNOWN]: It's like I think there's going to be a moment where suddenly like you have to wear your, like the bands you listen to and stuff on and like on your sleeve, the badge of identity. 01:47.589 --> 01:51.232 [UNKNOWN]: And then your dad has got to be like the single least cool person in the universe. 01:52.653 --> 02:03.702 [UNKNOWN]: But they're already like making exceptions for me in their mind because like my daughter said the other day she said Well, my son was saying that he only he was like, I like action music. 02:03.982 --> 02:04.823 [UNKNOWN]: I like horror music. 02:05.324 --> 02:09.107 [UNKNOWN]: I like horror music I don't like what he's never me. 02:09.187 --> 02:09.747 [UNKNOWN]: It's a Freddy's. 02:09.767 --> 02:10.147 [UNKNOWN]: I don't have it. 02:10.548 --> 02:18.634 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, except he's never like he's never seen a horror film He's seven years old, you know, and but he wants music he his music needs to have a 02:21.276 --> 02:23.539 [UNKNOWN]: It needs to have a narrative to it. 02:23.579 --> 02:24.520 [UNKNOWN]: Like a narrative he can build. 02:24.620 --> 02:26.482 [UNKNOWN]: Like has to be a sighting. 02:26.902 --> 02:32.268 [UNKNOWN]: Like the music is not about like a satisfying chord change or clever lyrics or whatever. 02:32.288 --> 02:35.752 [UNKNOWN]: It's like, it's about like what he wants is John Williams. 02:35.872 --> 02:40.457 [UNKNOWN]: Like he loves to listen to like Star Wars soundtrack. 02:40.757 --> 02:44.939 [UNKNOWN]: And even not having scenes star wars should be like, I can hear it like dark about to get Luke. 02:45.239 --> 02:46.519 [UNKNOWN]: Star is definitely about to get Luke. 02:46.539 --> 02:48.120 [UNKNOWN]: Like just a story telling you. 02:48.140 --> 02:49.161 [UNKNOWN]: I make a story telling music. 02:49.561 --> 02:51.502 [UNKNOWN]: He really, really, really is into limouser Rob. 02:51.902 --> 02:55.563 [UNKNOWN]: And like, and what he refers to is spy music. 02:55.603 --> 02:56.684 [UNKNOWN]: Well, it is spy music. 02:56.744 --> 02:58.484 [UNKNOWN]: He told me in the choir is like, I want spy music. 02:58.525 --> 02:59.585 [UNKNOWN]: And so I like found it. 03:00.045 --> 03:03.807 [UNKNOWN]: I found just a playlist of spy music, which is like all, you know, 03:07.168 --> 03:14.914 [UNKNOWN]: and he loves it and so that's like that's but his music has to it's like it's all mood-based and it has to basically make him feel like an engine. 03:15.374 --> 03:16.295 [UNKNOWN]: What about the other child? 03:16.315 --> 03:17.956 [UNKNOWN]: That doesn't get on music at all. 03:18.617 --> 03:30.606 [UNKNOWN]: She likes to follow along like what he likes she's again that is cool and she's like and I don't really like what she calls she's like I don't know like cute music except you. 03:30.666 --> 03:31.887 [UNKNOWN]: You're music is cute. 03:32.047 --> 03:34.529 [UNKNOWN]: Apparently mine is I was like she was like 03:36.610 --> 04:02.304 [UNKNOWN]: Okay, and I don't know, but the point of all this is that I don't know, like I'm already an exception, like they they're very vehemently against against a like radio pop, which I, I'm mad at them about because even though they're seven years old, and they have these opinions someone at school has told them that it's not cool to like, you know, Taylor Swift and Taylor Swift to Jason, which I 04:02.864 --> 04:08.827 [UNKNOWN]: think is really, it's really lame of them to have decided that without having an opportunity to lie. 04:08.867 --> 04:09.108 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 04:09.568 --> 04:14.070 [UNKNOWN]: It's always like, it's about trying to find obscure music and discovering something. 04:14.751 --> 04:16.632 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, yeah, they're ahead of the curve there. 04:16.812 --> 04:18.353 [UNKNOWN]: Kevin, what were you doing in your seven? 04:19.912 --> 04:21.453 [UNKNOWN]: I don't know, I definitely listened to music. 04:21.473 --> 04:24.274 [UNKNOWN]: You know, we had hit clips, we had, I got my first movie. 04:24.314 --> 04:26.975 [UNKNOWN]: I could fit, like, maybe a hundred songs on it. 04:27.116 --> 04:27.936 [UNKNOWN]: And it was my favorite. 04:27.956 --> 04:29.056 [UNKNOWN]: I just like, go online. 04:29.076 --> 04:30.897 [UNKNOWN]: Why are download music? 04:31.418 --> 04:31.818 [UNKNOWN]: Sorry. 04:31.938 --> 04:32.778 [UNKNOWN]: Why when you were old? 04:32.818 --> 04:33.819 [UNKNOWN]: And you were not online. 04:33.859 --> 04:34.939 [UNKNOWN]: How will you get so old? 04:34.959 --> 04:36.160 [UNKNOWN]: I would definitely. 04:36.280 --> 04:36.980 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, my dad. 04:37.060 --> 04:42.023 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and I got, I got internet, but I was like, my dad was like, he's a computer programmer. 04:42.043 --> 04:42.803 [UNKNOWN]: He works at Apple. 04:43.103 --> 04:44.024 [UNKNOWN]: The wee babies. 04:44.784 --> 04:45.084 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 04:45.204 --> 04:46.765 [UNKNOWN]: I was definitely playing video games. 04:46.885 --> 04:47.546 [UNKNOWN]: I liked music. 04:47.846 --> 04:48.466 [UNKNOWN]: I had opinions. 04:49.193 --> 04:51.273 [UNKNOWN]: It's you had like the beach boys. 04:51.434 --> 04:53.554 [UNKNOWN]: I like Simon and Garfunkel choices. 04:53.734 --> 04:55.114 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, well, my mom dead. 04:55.174 --> 04:58.115 [UNKNOWN]: They're trying to get someone when you were in fifth grade. 04:58.135 --> 05:02.016 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, no, I don't think I ever really turned against them. 05:02.036 --> 05:03.896 [UNKNOWN]: Like Led Zeppelin my that's the kind of music. 05:03.916 --> 05:04.797 [UNKNOWN]: My mom listen to. 05:04.837 --> 05:05.037 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 05:05.537 --> 05:06.217 [UNKNOWN]: No, the Beatles. 05:06.257 --> 05:07.857 [UNKNOWN]: I can turn against them a little bit. 05:07.937 --> 05:08.437 [UNKNOWN]: Second grade. 05:09.238 --> 05:10.018 [UNKNOWN]: Did you listen to any music? 05:10.058 --> 05:10.098 [UNKNOWN]: I. 05:12.462 --> 05:33.707 [UNKNOWN]: uh... my entire musical preferences were shaped by my dad so it was my dad grew up you know as a guitarist and in a band so he he loved like uh... van hayland uh... jimmy Hendrix you know what you love i loved what my dad learned that's all they listen and did you ever try to get 05:35.897 --> 05:43.744 [UNKNOWN]: I never, no, I would say never turned against it, but I will add that during that time, I was very into pop music. 05:44.425 --> 05:52.572 [UNKNOWN]: So that's kind of like my personal preference, I guess, was that, but then I also liked everything my dad played. 05:52.852 --> 05:58.517 [UNKNOWN]: So I never turned against it, but I probably just like over time listened to it less. 05:58.917 --> 05:59.438 [UNKNOWN]: Okay. 05:59.458 --> 06:01.620 [UNKNOWN]: I remember the scene, but I still do listen to some of it today. 06:01.880 --> 06:09.302 [UNKNOWN]: there was a CD in my house that I think my parents bought because it was funny because it was like like native like pan flute music or something. 06:09.422 --> 06:10.102 [UNKNOWN]: Okay, that's the worst. 06:10.342 --> 06:16.103 [UNKNOWN]: And the title, the title of the CD was Kaka Fiesta. 06:17.583 --> 06:20.004 [UNKNOWN]: I remember like thinking it was a Bob. 06:20.264 --> 06:25.745 [UNKNOWN]: It was sort of very like like um I don't know, I don't know how to describe it. 06:25.765 --> 06:27.805 [UNKNOWN]: I feel like I'm already been so negative but I'm just 06:32.086 --> 06:43.949 [UNKNOWN]: Because I don't, I really love basically, like, I really love the breath and scope of what music can bring into our lives with the exception of pamphlet. 06:44.069 --> 06:51.391 [UNKNOWN]: Like, I, I, I, I did, I went to, to let's, let's, like, you keep talking, I'm gonna like, get pull up an example to make sure we all know it. 06:51.511 --> 06:57.656 [UNKNOWN]: went to Peru to go to Montjupechu and like what they do in in like that's the music of Peru is pamphlets okay and specifically um well that's that could be any flute but it sounds like it's gonna go Dracula. 06:57.676 --> 07:08.504 [UNKNOWN]: Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do 07:08.922 --> 07:19.973 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, do you know, I'll cast upon a, uh, on a cast like the, um, it's like the, the, the theme song of, of Peru is that seven ago. 07:20.033 --> 07:20.334 [UNKNOWN]: I'm a song. 07:20.554 --> 07:24.938 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, seven ago I found the stole it from Peru to me because I'm going to, um, wait, really. 07:24.958 --> 07:26.600 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, they'll give it back eventually. 07:26.620 --> 07:27.241 [UNKNOWN]: One, another one. 07:30.936 --> 07:33.698 [UNKNOWN]: Oh man, come on, do we have to get our phones out and do this? 07:33.718 --> 07:34.639 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we can do that. 07:34.759 --> 07:35.120 [UNKNOWN]: The box. 07:35.600 --> 07:36.781 [UNKNOWN]: Uh, uh, you guys, the box. 07:36.801 --> 07:48.691 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh 07:51.493 --> 07:52.154 [UNKNOWN]: on the internet. 07:52.214 --> 07:53.014 [UNKNOWN]: Those music videos. 07:53.074 --> 07:57.777 [UNKNOWN]: The music videos that people who make music videos look at and they say, oh, we should make a music video like that. 07:57.858 --> 07:58.738 [UNKNOWN]: And then they don't. 07:59.258 --> 08:01.640 [UNKNOWN]: That's what Damian does. 08:01.880 --> 08:03.421 [UNKNOWN]: He's the treadmill guy. 08:03.441 --> 08:05.203 [UNKNOWN]: He wants this. 08:05.263 --> 08:06.804 [UNKNOWN]: It's just is that insulting. 08:08.025 --> 08:09.666 [UNKNOWN]: It is both insulting and accurate. 08:09.786 --> 08:14.849 [UNKNOWN]: Because that was how long ago and how how is like being defined by something that happened 08:21.214 --> 08:22.335 [UNKNOWN]: Uh, don't stop, since then. 08:22.835 --> 08:36.385 [UNKNOWN]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, 08:36.825 --> 08:37.465 [UNKNOWN]: the treadmill one. 08:37.485 --> 08:37.725 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 08:37.825 --> 08:39.066 [UNKNOWN]: But it did start to annoy me. 08:39.146 --> 08:39.926 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, you do hate it. 08:40.046 --> 08:40.867 [UNKNOWN]: Well, now's your channel. 08:40.887 --> 08:43.748 [UNKNOWN]: Well, she also like, you know, I don't know, she liked you too. 08:43.848 --> 08:47.329 [UNKNOWN]: She started like being like really apple core in a way. 08:47.609 --> 08:48.570 [UNKNOWN]: Like, like, a whole core. 08:48.770 --> 08:49.130 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 08:49.270 --> 08:52.171 [UNKNOWN]: Like any music that Apple had on their on their commercials. 08:52.211 --> 08:53.072 [UNKNOWN]: My mom was into. 08:53.092 --> 08:55.413 [UNKNOWN]: Okay. 08:55.613 --> 08:58.234 [UNKNOWN]: Um, El Condor Pasta. 08:58.614 --> 08:58.914 [UNKNOWN]: I could. 09:01.035 --> 09:01.595 [UNKNOWN]: Is this how you guys 09:07.901 --> 09:09.882 [UNKNOWN]: I think it needs to be. 09:10.303 --> 09:10.723 [UNKNOWN]: It's common. 09:14.245 --> 09:21.890 [UNKNOWN]: This is the part of that thing. 09:22.431 --> 09:24.112 [UNKNOWN]: Come on. 09:25.153 --> 09:25.753 [UNKNOWN]: Oh yeah. 09:26.554 --> 09:26.954 [UNKNOWN]: You know? 09:29.255 --> 09:32.698 [UNKNOWN]: This makes me feel like old people. 09:34.252 --> 09:35.533 [UNKNOWN]: Like it's very old people. 09:35.553 --> 09:37.115 [UNKNOWN]: This is like thousands of years old. 09:37.135 --> 09:45.722 [UNKNOWN]: This is that that is the young team song like old Swedish people I do not like that particular song. 09:45.962 --> 09:47.323 [UNKNOWN]: Why don't I feel old Swedish people? 09:47.363 --> 09:48.825 [UNKNOWN]: Am I the only one that feels old Swedish? 09:48.845 --> 09:49.605 [UNKNOWN]: You should be honest with me. 09:49.645 --> 09:50.626 [UNKNOWN]: I'll prove you in people. 09:50.646 --> 09:51.487 [UNKNOWN]: I'll prove in people. 09:51.767 --> 09:58.671 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and you cannot go anywhere in Peru without that that playing on a pan flute. 09:58.751 --> 09:59.311 [UNKNOWN]: Wow. 09:59.712 --> 10:06.135 [UNKNOWN]: And and pan flute like flute pan flute music in general is the one it's the it's my one week spot. 10:06.155 --> 10:09.537 [UNKNOWN]: I can't do it like reverse busking you pay them to stop playing. 10:10.218 --> 10:17.082 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but then you feel like a real asshole because it's like this is the this is the national hair like this is the thing people love here. 10:17.702 --> 10:19.124 [UNKNOWN]: I just, just keep going. 10:19.144 --> 10:21.588 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, it does, it has like a sort of shrill. 10:52.653 --> 10:56.862 [UNKNOWN]: And you even know who paid for it, so yeah, we didn't look like a new car. 10:56.882 --> 10:58.645 [UNKNOWN]: That's I'm not sure it was the best advertising for them. 10:59.848 --> 11:00.830 [UNKNOWN]: I think it was wonderful. 11:00.850 --> 11:01.952 [UNKNOWN]: They sent you the base model. 11:06.744 --> 11:19.148 [UNKNOWN]: Anyway, we had to figure out what are the ways you can make sound because it was like what we have is a ton of kinetic energy here and nothing else. 11:19.348 --> 11:21.948 [UNKNOWN]: So like you can hit something, that makes a sound. 11:22.349 --> 11:25.710 [UNKNOWN]: You can like you can scrape something that makes a sound. 11:25.730 --> 11:31.151 [UNKNOWN]: There's like all, you know, you get into like there's categories of, of sound vibrations that you can make doing different things. 11:33.412 --> 11:45.820 [UNKNOWN]: It doesn't matter whether it's a glass tube or it's a metal tube or it's a plastic tube, because what's happening is it's actually the turbulence of the air inside that's making that, right? 11:45.920 --> 11:48.202 [UNKNOWN]: So like as long as the shape is a tube, you're going to get that sound. 11:48.702 --> 11:51.624 [UNKNOWN]: You don't get anything other than that one. 11:51.984 --> 11:54.586 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and I do not like that sound. 11:54.812 --> 12:11.889 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, did you use one of those on the we tried what we did was we like built out out of the sun roof we built essentially a pan flute that we could stick out of the sun and we went on the highway to see if we could like figure out how to play at different speeds but what happens is that the resonant like the the 12:13.690 --> 12:17.354 [UNKNOWN]: the sort of standing wave you get in there is different different speed. 12:17.815 --> 12:25.163 [UNKNOWN]: So it's pretty hard to predict what you're going to get out of a particular like if you blow over a bottle, you know, you get that no, but if you could blow five times as fast, it would like hit different. 12:32.550 --> 12:34.431 [UNKNOWN]: In the end we basically didn't use that. 12:35.512 --> 12:47.758 [UNKNOWN]: It was fun to test and people definitely thought we were like on the highway holding a two about the window is scared people Yeah, but it's also why it's different if you've ever seen someone swing around one of those like those tubes. 12:47.818 --> 12:57.483 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you notice they're always ridged right Yes, yeah Because if you just swing around a pipe if you swing around a hose 12:58.183 --> 13:00.224 [UNKNOWN]: You're going to get the wind going across the edge of it. 13:00.624 --> 13:06.586 [UNKNOWN]: If you swing around a ridge tube, you actually get the turbulence going in and out of it. 13:06.686 --> 13:07.446 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, really? 13:07.506 --> 13:08.627 [UNKNOWN]: So it's like a center fugal. 13:08.667 --> 13:11.128 [UNKNOWN]: It's not just blowing over a glass bottle. 13:11.628 --> 13:16.970 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, look, obviously you can't just be continuing to evacuate air from the thing or you get a vacuum in it. 13:16.990 --> 13:19.611 [UNKNOWN]: I'm not exactly sure why that makes it. 13:19.631 --> 13:22.212 [UNKNOWN]: Well, usually, I mean, they have holes on the top and the bottom. 13:22.252 --> 13:23.132 [UNKNOWN]: But maybe it does, just like, 13:23.692 --> 13:25.133 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I could see that. 13:25.153 --> 13:37.897 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you ever seen I seen there's like a Some clip of a Japanese guy on like a educational Japanese show where he like makes a vacuum with one of those He like holds one end and he like whipped the end around and it like stuck all the Oh, I had no idea that's how it worked. 13:38.038 --> 13:42.799 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I didn't know you could do that either If I've ever had a pinch need to be watching that not watching our music. 13:42.959 --> 13:49.942 [UNKNOWN]: I okay, so that's that's a lie I watched all your music videos last night No, and I had adblock enabled 13:51.280 --> 13:53.782 [UNKNOWN]: Good, but I have you to premium. 13:54.503 --> 13:56.364 [UNKNOWN]: Okay, so somebody got paid. 13:56.384 --> 13:57.085 [UNKNOWN]: I don't know if it was you. 13:57.105 --> 13:57.845 [UNKNOWN]: I'm not sure how that works. 13:57.885 --> 13:58.726 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, I see what you're saying. 13:58.746 --> 14:02.289 [UNKNOWN]: This is about YouTube, I can tell me, I don't know if that's... No, YouTube. 14:02.329 --> 14:03.490 [UNKNOWN]: I don't know how to think about that stuff. 14:03.610 --> 14:04.351 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, good. 14:04.931 --> 14:13.598 [UNKNOWN]: If I knew how to make money off of YouTube or like in this space, I mean, you can't be in a rock band and think you're doing it for money. 14:13.718 --> 14:15.179 [UNKNOWN]: It's your beer more. 14:15.540 --> 14:18.302 [UNKNOWN]: Do you live for art or do you art to live? 14:21.323 --> 14:24.965 [UNKNOWN]: It really depends what era of my life you're talking about. 14:25.106 --> 14:27.087 [UNKNOWN]: Okay, you know, like that's interesting. 14:27.327 --> 14:29.629 [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, I'm a great deal older than you. 14:30.469 --> 14:31.991 [UNKNOWN]: No, I'm a tiny baby's nine. 14:32.031 --> 14:34.833 [UNKNOWN]: You're just doing what you're like barely, barely 40 and 50. 14:35.293 --> 14:35.713 [UNKNOWN]: I'm a fuck. 14:36.234 --> 14:37.655 [UNKNOWN]: You see, you can't even have me in here. 14:37.675 --> 14:39.176 [UNKNOWN]: Like this place is about to explode. 14:39.276 --> 14:39.876 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 14:40.457 --> 14:45.661 [UNKNOWN]: And when you guys are talking about having internet as children, it hurts my soul because you're babies. 14:45.921 --> 14:46.201 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 14:46.281 --> 14:48.803 [UNKNOWN]: And like your, your, your lesser humans and I. 14:48.883 --> 14:50.444 [UNKNOWN]: you guys had like rocks and sticks and stuff. 14:51.105 --> 14:54.407 [UNKNOWN]: Sometimes, if we could find the viewer, yeah, like it was largely just a big vacuum. 14:54.967 --> 14:55.648 [UNKNOWN]: Like the spade. 14:56.088 --> 14:57.329 [UNKNOWN]: Everything was a vacuum and was no one else. 14:57.349 --> 14:57.889 [UNKNOWN]: There was matter. 14:59.971 --> 15:00.571 [UNKNOWN]: The good news. 15:00.731 --> 15:01.512 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, exactly. 15:01.852 --> 15:05.214 [UNKNOWN]: Now, my first email address was in college. 15:05.234 --> 15:06.295 [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, and, um, 15:08.067 --> 15:15.950 [UNKNOWN]: And after school, I grew up wanting to be a visual artist, like, or at least thinking of myself primarily in those terms. 15:15.970 --> 15:16.891 [UNKNOWN]: Like, like, movie effects? 15:17.211 --> 15:18.311 [UNKNOWN]: No, under like painting. 15:18.331 --> 15:18.611 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, okay. 15:18.731 --> 15:19.632 [UNKNOWN]: That's what we used to do. 15:19.652 --> 15:20.432 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 15:20.452 --> 15:21.052 [UNKNOWN]: What's the painting? 15:21.092 --> 15:21.492 [UNKNOWN]: And dry. 15:21.632 --> 15:22.993 [UNKNOWN]: It's just like, like, I know how to do that. 15:23.033 --> 15:24.594 [UNKNOWN]: It's like two-faced but different colors. 15:25.294 --> 15:26.634 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, okay. 15:26.654 --> 15:29.976 [UNKNOWN]: I think I understand. 15:30.176 --> 15:34.317 [UNKNOWN]: But I went to school and like in college, I found that the, 15:38.877 --> 16:05.783 [UNKNOWN]: The conceptual framework around modern art was distasteful to me, not always, but I had done a lot of like I had had a pretty good education in sort of like in that and when I went to school and there were kids who are like going like I can throw my feces at a canvas and that's like I was like that was a thing yeah oh that's awesome, that's art yeah, yeah and I'm having the same reaction right now, so I did then and 16:06.103 --> 16:10.867 [UNKNOWN]: Well, I just, I wasn't, I wasn't that interested in the conversation around it. 16:10.907 --> 16:24.058 [UNKNOWN]: I was interested in the effects of it and the feeling, and like, and I do love the conversations that that starts, but there's, it's a fine line when you get into like, it's actually all about the essay that you write about the thing that you like doing stuff, exactly. 16:24.118 --> 16:24.879 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 16:24.959 --> 16:26.280 [UNKNOWN]: And I like the effect of that stuff. 16:26.320 --> 16:33.786 [UNKNOWN]: So, at the same time, I had been really into punk rock in Washington, D.C. where I grew up, and that was sort of my social scene, and at college, 16:34.627 --> 16:42.351 [UNKNOWN]: I had the opportunity to do a lot of a very high-falutin art or go into this electronic music studio that no one was using in my school. 16:42.491 --> 16:45.052 [UNKNOWN]: And I was so excited about, oh god, here it comes. 16:45.753 --> 16:46.873 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, no. 16:47.093 --> 16:50.675 [UNKNOWN]: That is a base or baritone record of the thing. 16:50.695 --> 16:52.036 [UNKNOWN]: I just wanted to leave it here. 16:52.136 --> 16:52.496 [UNKNOWN]: Thanks. 16:52.516 --> 16:53.697 [UNKNOWN]: Be safe. 16:53.717 --> 16:56.358 [UNKNOWN]: Did you like call in a like a drop? 16:56.578 --> 16:58.199 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, from your sister. 16:59.040 --> 17:01.461 [UNKNOWN]: That's like a, you can get one of those on this to cart. 17:02.161 --> 17:04.403 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so you had this lab to yourself. 17:05.464 --> 17:06.485 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I'm sorry. 17:06.525 --> 17:28.645 [UNKNOWN]: I had this this music studio to my not technically myself and but like wasn't popular that was that was a place I could go and and and like it was all fresh and new to me and the idea and like learning out of record music and right music and and like get that world of sensations out of that bunch of machines was like a really thrilling adventure to go on. 17:29.145 --> 17:44.417 [UNKNOWN]: So I came out of college with a bunch of visual art skills that I could use to get jobs and a bunch of music and music adjacent engineering skills that I would rather than I would like to help the awesome world to live in. 17:44.517 --> 17:47.640 [UNKNOWN]: And of course, I would love to be in a rock band, but I mean, what are the chances? 17:47.680 --> 17:47.920 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 17:48.220 --> 18:16.951 [UNKNOWN]: So I went, I moved to Chicago where I had a bunch of friends who were in rock bands going like at least it's cheaper than New York where if I want to like have a practice space I'll be doing 90-hour weeks and where you know and started a rock band at the same time that I was doing like like Photoshop work for for ad agencies and that is like so so my my I was definitely like music was my art by that point and it was definitely like everything else is in support of 18:17.871 --> 18:29.778 [UNKNOWN]: And I understand that like the likelihood of being doing this is a job is extremely low, but if I do sort of adjacent things that don't suck too much of my soul out, then I'll be getting better at those things and kind of keeping me opportunities left. 18:30.342 --> 18:31.804 [UNKNOWN]: That's such a good way to approach. 18:31.824 --> 18:34.426 [UNKNOWN]: I feel like a lot of people, they're like all or nothing. 18:34.486 --> 18:37.029 [UNKNOWN]: Like, oh, I got to drop out of school to do YouTube. 18:37.049 --> 18:52.024 [UNKNOWN]: And it's like, no, like, I think even for us, like going to school was the foundation of what we ended up doing on YouTube, like the tangible skills and the experience and the relationships helped us get better at the thing that was kind of the pipe dream. 18:53.155 --> 18:55.056 [UNKNOWN]: Yes, I must admit that I'm assuming it helped you. 18:55.076 --> 18:56.436 [UNKNOWN]: It's like it's just music. 18:56.556 --> 18:57.877 [UNKNOWN]: I would say that the flip side is this. 18:57.957 --> 19:01.879 [UNKNOWN]: Is that I know a lot of people who came out of school going like, I want to be a filmmaker. 19:02.019 --> 19:05.480 [UNKNOWN]: And the only way to be a filmmaker is to work at this ad agency. 19:05.520 --> 19:09.102 [UNKNOWN]: And so I'm going to work at this ad agency while I'm getting my film, career off the ground. 19:09.782 --> 19:32.215 [UNKNOWN]: And 30, 40 years later, our angry filmmakers at Adagent because like you like there is and I will say like I worked I I through random like sequence of events was really good at Photoshop in the late 90s when that wasn't a thing people largely did and so I could get paid a lot to go do like hourly work for Adagency. 19:32.755 --> 19:42.562 [UNKNOWN]: And I would, and so I do eight hours of work or 10 hours of work at this ad agency, literally like total grunt work, like I used to make 19:45.761 --> 20:01.353 [UNKNOWN]: Banner ads of the Pillsbury dough boy really yeah being like Help me You know what I'm like Somebody else would make the animation or whatever and I would just like have to assemble it and Clean it up What was I like the hourly rate for that back? 20:01.453 --> 20:07.678 [UNKNOWN]: It was 50 bucks an hour back then in 98 Whoa, that's awesome Right, it was enough to pay for the entire band. 20:07.698 --> 20:11.481 [UNKNOWN]: They literally paid everyone's rent for a couple of dollars Pillsbury dough boy right 20:12.481 --> 20:37.566 [UNKNOWN]: But I will say this that it was that after eight hours of that, I was utterly like shredded, tired and angry and Disparring because looking at the bill, but I don't want to feel it and even the first chosen for that particular was like a horrible fun Yeah, and horrible colors and and I'll this is why it was so Exhausting to me is that 20:38.846 --> 20:48.792 [UNKNOWN]: creative work, you could kind of boil down to like, it's not really this, but sort of a approximated by the idea of lots and lots and lots of binary decisions really fast, right? 20:48.812 --> 20:52.294 [UNKNOWN]: Like, should I go faster, should I go slower, you know, should I go to the right or should go to the left? 20:52.314 --> 20:59.259 [UNKNOWN]: And you have to like, basically look at all these little decisions and have a quick feedback about it, is it did it just get better or worse? 20:59.859 --> 21:07.624 [UNKNOWN]: And when you have, when you're holding two steaming piles of shit, they're like, then you, you steam, you spin and spin and spin, it's like, which one's less? 21:07.704 --> 21:08.024 [UNKNOWN]: Right? 21:08.104 --> 21:19.091 [UNKNOWN]: And so, and what was awful is that I would, I would work like six hours on something and go to my boss and be like, I don't know, and then he would like in 15 minutes make a better version because he was, he was a really good designer. 21:19.491 --> 21:23.412 [UNKNOWN]: meaning that like you knew exactly what his parameters were and how to make this better. 21:23.472 --> 21:31.233 [UNKNOWN]: And I was just like using instinct, you know, and when your instinct can't solve this because it's not solvable to a degree that you're ever going to love, yeah. 21:31.333 --> 21:34.934 [UNKNOWN]: Like you can use so much creative energy and get nowhere. 21:35.254 --> 21:43.236 [UNKNOWN]: And so I would do, I would work, you know, eight or ten hours and be utterly wasted, tired, and then we go to band practice and we'd, I'd do it like we'd stay up all night playing, I'd be fine. 21:43.596 --> 22:08.166 [UNKNOWN]: because there it was like, because it was, it was feeding me and each of those decisions as you made it gives you this big feedback of like, oh, the song is better, you know, and so at that Arab to answer your question, art for life for life for art or whatever it was, that at that point in my life that was that was it and it was fueling everything and I definitely made decisions that were like, 22:10.567 --> 22:13.788 [UNKNOWN]: careful enough about the future being like, I want to still be able to do this in 10 years. 22:13.808 --> 22:15.028 [UNKNOWN]: I want to be able to do this in 20 years. 22:15.428 --> 22:17.968 [UNKNOWN]: I like knowing that this won't work. 22:18.508 --> 22:25.370 [UNKNOWN]: I want to have a career, you know, but I also preference that at every point I could, right? 22:25.390 --> 22:34.791 [UNKNOWN]: Like if you if you ever go, I like I'm not going to take the risks because they're too dangerous, then at some point you stop you you see creative control to somebody else, right? 22:40.472 --> 22:48.297 [UNKNOWN]: at the part which is really hard, which is like learning what you love and what you don't and learning what risks are willing to take and what you're not. 22:48.597 --> 23:05.348 [UNKNOWN]: And so now, as like a, you know, middle-aged man, I have a family and I have a life and I have like a that isn't just the art and realize in a way that will be very depressing to everybody who's not a middle-aged man, that like nothing that any of us does lasts much past our life. 23:06.228 --> 23:17.857 [UNKNOWN]: None of it matters and you can be like a, like when you, you know, you pull back to great enough distance and the only musicians left from our time or like, you know, the Beatles and hell, but it's like everybody disappeared. 23:18.117 --> 23:19.558 [UNKNOWN]: And you pull back far enough and they disappear. 23:19.598 --> 23:20.999 [UNKNOWN]: Like it's all none of it. 23:21.600 --> 23:22.400 [UNKNOWN]: None of it matters. 23:22.561 --> 23:28.265 [UNKNOWN]: And if you're all you're doing is making something so that one day you'll have the opportunity to be happy, you will spend your life miserable. 23:28.585 --> 23:30.826 [UNKNOWN]: You know, I think that's a great take because I feel the same way. 23:30.846 --> 23:35.468 [UNKNOWN]: I feel like it's a little more but sometimes when there's a thing and it's like, you know, it's all this is of this. 23:35.548 --> 23:36.728 [UNKNOWN]: And I'm like, yeah, one day we die. 23:37.168 --> 23:37.369 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 23:37.869 --> 23:52.895 [UNKNOWN]: And you can't like, I am now old enough to not to be looking at the next, you know, 40, 50 years and going like what I don't want to do is spend my life always trying to open up a door so that one day I might have the opportunity to one day maybe be happy as if making any of these things never make you happy. 23:53.135 --> 23:53.375 [UNKNOWN]: Right? 23:53.395 --> 23:53.535 [UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm. 23:54.095 --> 24:21.675 [UNKNOWN]: So then you get back to just like the like can you can you can you can me art satisfy you simply because you love making me art I think that the journey like the like the destination is the excuse for the journey and the journey of solving the problems is what is satisfying not getting there I think once you get there then you sit there and you don't know what you're doing any like you finish the video game like oh well now what like the every boss I've done everything 24:22.235 --> 24:44.167 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, maybe it's different for people, but I feel like the same way we're purpose provides satisfaction, not I have done the job like I need to feel like what I'm doing means something, whether it's, you know, taking care of a child or working to pay bills, you know, to go in on a vacation like all these little things having a result, I think is what makes me the happiest. 24:44.547 --> 25:05.373 [UNKNOWN]: not it's like like the grind set mindset yeah but you saw you sound like an enormous hustler when you were younger like working basically two shifts like a day shit and they should day shift in a night shift they should I guess I mean I feel like do you know many like artists in their 20s who aren't just kind of just like working for them like I think 25:06.100 --> 25:16.329 [UNKNOWN]: I think that everybody's successful has like something a little bit wrong with them like good and bad and like working a full job and then sort of grinding into the night doing music. 25:16.489 --> 25:22.214 [UNKNOWN]: I don't think is a particularly normal thing that people do. 25:22.234 --> 25:24.596 [UNKNOWN]: I think a lot of people don't have that in them. 25:25.240 --> 25:26.301 [UNKNOWN]: to just go, go, go, go, go. 25:26.321 --> 25:44.838 [UNKNOWN]: And I'm not sure if that's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a blessing or it's a 25:45.398 --> 25:46.238 [UNKNOWN]: And I got to do a thing. 25:46.278 --> 25:52.541 [UNKNOWN]: It's like there's like in some sort of squirrel like a thing like a squirrel thing in my brain like maybe I have a brain the size of a squirrel or something. 25:53.362 --> 25:56.443 [UNKNOWN]: It's like a one child. 25:56.483 --> 25:59.765 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, things change loving. 26:00.085 --> 26:04.967 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it for I would say like I would say for the worse, right, but that worse. 26:05.027 --> 26:06.208 [UNKNOWN]: I'm sure you could you said that. 26:07.869 --> 26:17.062 [UNKNOWN]: Like, I'm trying to, I don't know how to say this, like, it's, I mean, I mean, it's in the least defensively way possible, but like, it makes my life worse and it's worth it. 26:18.750 --> 26:19.050 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 26:19.230 --> 26:30.133 [UNKNOWN]: There's, you know, there's, I remember reading a book by 15 years ago, I think I may have actually literally been in Peru when I was reading this. 26:31.313 --> 26:43.837 [UNKNOWN]: And there are all these studies where like people, by every measure of like happiness goes down to basically it's lowest point in your life during the 18 years when you have kids living in home. 26:44.237 --> 26:49.844 [UNKNOWN]: And yet, people self-report that those are the best years of the life and the most satisfying and the most fulfilling. 26:50.224 --> 26:54.569 [UNKNOWN]: And I will say that, like, as you guys both know, my kids are sick right now. 26:54.749 --> 26:59.775 [UNKNOWN]: And like, I had, my daughter was like, up puking all night. 27:00.215 --> 27:03.659 [UNKNOWN]: And I had these transcendent moments of being like, I can't believe I could be with you. 27:04.760 --> 27:11.828 [UNKNOWN]: It's, you know, no one's sleeping, no one's comfortable, and yet it is actually like this is the reason for being. 27:11.908 --> 27:12.188 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 27:12.228 --> 27:12.628 [UNKNOWN]: And it is. 27:13.129 --> 27:17.053 [UNKNOWN]: And in that thing, it's sort of like, what are you making any of this for? 27:17.574 --> 27:24.581 [UNKNOWN]: Like, I do love that our, that our treadmill video will keep being watched for many years past my life. 27:24.708 --> 27:49.122 [UNKNOWN]: You know, my music is being listened to people I'm right now that I've never met and like it's changing their day to day, this like their mood is changing because of something I mean that's wonderful and beautiful, but all I get to know of that is something sort of fairly abstract like a number right and and you don't like by the time even when it's in a ward or like a moment of of gratitude from the world that's always comes when you're busy on the next thing. 27:49.322 --> 27:50.404 [UNKNOWN]: And how do you feel about a war? 27:50.424 --> 27:51.225 [UNKNOWN]: Have you gotten a war? 27:51.505 --> 27:52.607 [UNKNOWN]: I have gotten a war. 27:52.627 --> 27:54.710 [UNKNOWN]: Do you ever feel kind of just say, like, okay? 27:56.389 --> 28:01.430 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, they're always for something that is now in the past. 28:01.650 --> 28:07.412 [UNKNOWN]: And generally, like, my disease, as you can tell, has, for most of my life, been to be, like, so future, so go, go, go, go, go. 28:07.432 --> 28:09.632 [UNKNOWN]: That, like, it's, that the awards feel like, well, yeah. 28:10.372 --> 28:12.513 [UNKNOWN]: Like, thanks, but, you know, I have, like, yeah. 28:12.713 --> 28:13.893 [UNKNOWN]: That's not important anymore. 28:14.213 --> 28:22.335 [UNKNOWN]: Well, and what's worse, in some ways, is that all it does is set up bar for you to be like, well, now, if the next video I make, isn't, it doesn't get a Grammy, then it must not be very good. 28:22.375 --> 28:24.256 [UNKNOWN]: Well, I'm welcome to the YouTube I made, too. 28:26.736 --> 28:41.943 [UNKNOWN]: I made a chart this morning, this chart is the number of views your guys, this music videos have gotten versus the complexity that I rank them and I did a two video growing average. 28:56.309 --> 29:03.435 [UNKNOWN]: definitely goes up over time and the views have like a downward trajectory as well. 29:03.516 --> 29:04.837 [UNKNOWN]: Well, and the music is where some words do. 29:05.137 --> 29:06.038 [UNKNOWN]: I don't think so. 29:06.178 --> 29:20.451 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, I, I, it's like this thing that like I, I think about like quite frequently about the saturation or like whatever is happening on the internet where people are just like less excited or less interested in a thing, 29:21.932 --> 29:25.995 [UNKNOWN]: And then there's this pressure to one up and go bigger and bigger. 29:26.015 --> 29:28.456 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you feel like people have seen it all already. 29:29.357 --> 29:30.978 [UNKNOWN]: But yes, how do you feel? 29:31.098 --> 29:34.580 [UNKNOWN]: I feel like I'll say some pretty depressing things. 29:34.600 --> 29:35.360 [UNKNOWN]: That's great. 29:35.421 --> 29:36.101 [UNKNOWN]: Cool with that. 29:38.885 --> 29:55.169 [UNKNOWN]: First of all, I think that is the hallmark of being creative and making art as opposed to running a good business and like OK go had was was instrumental in in the in the shift from mainstream media to YouTube. 29:55.449 --> 29:59.310 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I also want to be clear that the lowest number of views on this is 8 million so. 30:00.150 --> 30:00.631 [UNKNOWN]: But thank you. 30:03.072 --> 30:15.325 [UNKNOWN]: but we like there was a moment when I when we were sitting literally sitting at the Grammys and I remember people like there was a dude who you know runs one of the big labels sitting behind me being like, how did you do it man? 30:15.405 --> 30:20.070 [UNKNOWN]: You're like, because they want to be because they because like the the 30:20.530 --> 30:42.207 [UNKNOWN]: powers that be we're like look at what can happen like you can take six dollars and YouTube and and when agree on me and we're and and our model is all wrong and and for the brief moment in 2006 or seven or whatever that was it was like very clear that the democratization of filmmaking and of like culture making was going to upend everything. 30:43.008 --> 30:51.918 [UNKNOWN]: And it did, but what we wanted to do was make a certain type of art that like, like, we just love the idea that we could make these things. 30:51.938 --> 30:56.543 [UNKNOWN]: So you like doing stuff and you did something and then someone came in and asked you what your secret was exactly. 30:56.683 --> 30:59.786 [UNKNOWN]: And did that make you feel angry or just sad for them? 31:03.780 --> 31:15.855 [UNKNOWN]: Like it's it was so in the context of It is a captain of industry saying how come my industry has been upended. 31:15.935 --> 31:21.042 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's so much different than like yeah This guy this guy hasn't has never wanted to raise on his life, you know 31:21.542 --> 31:29.032 [UNKNOWN]: But like, so I didn't, I had neither, it's talking to a, it's like, he was speaking in Klingon, you know, in a continuous conversation. 31:29.052 --> 31:29.252 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 31:29.452 --> 31:32.216 [UNKNOWN]: But, but I was, but a fascinating one because you know what the Klingon is asking. 31:32.236 --> 31:32.356 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 31:32.376 --> 31:35.360 [UNKNOWN]: You know, like, you know why he's, why this is a very important part of that. 31:35.380 --> 31:38.825 [UNKNOWN]: Also, like, vaguely threatening to, you know, like, he wants some of that. 31:39.065 --> 31:56.927 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and it's sort of like, how do I like I need now I need a a like in my org chart, I need a a person whose job it is to own your whole sector, yeah, I mean and and and what happened there after was that. 31:57.828 --> 32:14.031 [UNKNOWN]: like it quickly became apparent like we were really good at making these very very sticky moments these like these these videos that everybody wanted to share with everybody else and that during that moment was basically the like the most successful use of YouTube. 32:14.492 --> 32:23.778 [UNKNOWN]: But people quickly realize that like you can actually build a much bigger audience on YouTube, if your plan is to just build, like you should make something every day or every week. 32:23.998 --> 32:24.298 [UNKNOWN]: Right. 32:24.478 --> 32:33.904 [UNKNOWN]: And the production values can be really low as long as it's really, really repetitive and and like people know exactly what they're going to get, right, which is precisely opposite of an okay govety. 32:33.924 --> 32:37.547 [UNKNOWN]: Like you know, I guess what the thrill is going to be, but it's going to happen once every year or two. 32:38.127 --> 32:41.409 [UNKNOWN]: And the whole point is like it's something you haven't seen before and don't know 32:42.750 --> 32:56.461 [UNKNOWN]: I think that I don't know if you're brilliant or if it's an accident or some combination of both because I think you sort of pioneered a segment of the internet and internet culture. 32:56.581 --> 32:58.263 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, definitely. 32:58.303 --> 33:06.890 [UNKNOWN]: And I say that because talking to some people that I know at YouTube, you were like an example. 33:07.710 --> 33:10.072 [UNKNOWN]: of what they wanted YouTube to be. 33:11.013 --> 33:19.440 [UNKNOWN]: Because you're early videos, I don't know if you've deleted the first videos you posted to the channel, but the first very first video on your channel right now turned 20 years old today. 33:20.068 --> 33:20.348 [UNKNOWN]: Really? 33:20.368 --> 33:20.689 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 33:20.969 --> 33:21.569 [UNKNOWN]: Okay, what is it? 33:22.350 --> 33:24.052 [UNKNOWN]: I don't remember, but it's you guys. 33:24.352 --> 33:25.473 [UNKNOWN]: I think you're like in Sweden. 33:25.493 --> 33:29.416 [UNKNOWN]: There's something you're like recording recording the record from which that album. 33:29.436 --> 33:41.888 [UNKNOWN]: Okay, and a lot of your videos like a bulk of the videos are closer to what a like YouTube channel is and then sprinkled in between those are videos with 70 million views. 33:42.708 --> 33:58.343 [UNKNOWN]: And so it's very like interesting to me to see that engagement with an audience at a more kind of classic social media level so early on because nobody was really doing that and it and we are now punished for it. 33:59.240 --> 33:59.561 [UNKNOWN]: How's that? 33:59.641 --> 34:16.422 [UNKNOWN]: Because social because what what now that we've moved back like when people were sharing videos with people There was you'd want like you'd see the treadmill video and it would make you feel a certain way and you'd want to be the person who made your mom or your girlfriend or yeah, that you're student feel that way 34:17.032 --> 34:20.195 [UNKNOWN]: But the algorithm doesn't have that ego about it. 34:20.315 --> 34:24.178 [UNKNOWN]: It just wants to know who will watch what. 34:24.699 --> 34:42.294 [UNKNOWN]: And so now, the fact that the OK Go video could be a hyperviral music video, or could be us, like trying to pay out which raincoat to wear is a big negative for it. 34:42.914 --> 34:47.358 [UNKNOWN]: because it's not in the, you think the algorithm says, oh, because these videos aren't viewed as much. 34:47.858 --> 34:51.100 [UNKNOWN]: Because they're, yeah, like averages averages down the channel. 34:51.140 --> 34:57.846 [UNKNOWN]: When you have like the Q&A video that only gets, you know, one million views versus a 70 million view video, you think it just kind of averages down. 34:57.866 --> 35:04.931 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and in consistency, it would much rather have something that know that where it goes like 4,000 people watch us and I know every single one of them. 35:05.331 --> 35:12.277 [UNKNOWN]: Okay, then be like either zero people will watch this or 150 million will it like and of course if I have agree with you. 35:12.658 --> 35:15.220 [UNKNOWN]: I think that there's I think there's a couple of things going on. 35:15.260 --> 35:23.126 [UNKNOWN]: I think that I think the algorithm is for all intents and purposes basically perfect. 35:23.166 --> 35:29.672 [UNKNOWN]: I don't mean that literally, but I think that the algorithm's job is to find 35:33.395 --> 35:33.575 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 35:33.655 --> 35:39.538 [UNKNOWN]: And so if there is a video that people will watch, it will deliver it to them. 35:39.558 --> 35:44.420 [UNKNOWN]: I think that the the other half of that is there's a consistent audience as well. 35:44.440 --> 35:49.082 [UNKNOWN]: So there's like the the new audience and then there's the consistent audience. 35:49.282 --> 35:49.502 [UNKNOWN]: Right. 35:49.802 --> 35:50.042 [UNKNOWN]: And you. 35:51.785 --> 35:53.366 [UNKNOWN]: can play both games at the same time. 35:53.446 --> 35:57.870 [UNKNOWN]: I don't think you get punished for the new audience. 35:58.230 --> 36:04.935 [UNKNOWN]: I'm sort of conflating my algorithm games, too, is that that's a little different from music than it is for YouTube? 36:05.015 --> 36:05.655 [UNKNOWN]: Is it? 36:05.795 --> 36:11.179 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, the way that recommendations for you on music are much different than writing music. 36:11.379 --> 36:15.963 [UNKNOWN]: Like you said, they're probably fairly perfect in terms of attention engineering. 36:16.283 --> 36:16.763 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 36:17.363 --> 36:30.607 [UNKNOWN]: But that that can sit being hyper consistent so that people know exactly what and why you will listen to something or watch something, operates a little bit differently in the two space. 36:31.447 --> 36:42.470 [UNKNOWN]: You think they don't like like from YouTube music side of things like for streaming or just for like yeah that streaming services, whether it's like whether it's YouTube music or Spotify or 36:49.588 --> 37:06.395 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, if I use that, like one thing that I noticed because I don't really listen to YouTube music, but I just listen to a lot of music through YouTube, just like, um, music videos, yeah, it recommends me the same videos all the time, no matter how many times. 37:07.255 --> 37:20.500 [UNKNOWN]: like I find normal YouTube videos you listen you see it it pops up they just disappears but for music videos it just keeps recommending the same things over because for music it knows that there's a lot of repeated value. 37:21.180 --> 37:25.862 [UNKNOWN]: Have you cooked your entire YouTube viewing experience by listening to music by clicking on videos? 37:27.401 --> 37:33.163 [UNKNOWN]: I kind of click on the one song I'd like, and then I just let it play through all the playlists. 37:33.183 --> 37:34.204 [UNKNOWN]: I do the same thing. 37:34.244 --> 37:34.544 [UNKNOWN]: Say that. 37:34.564 --> 37:38.685 [UNKNOWN]: Because you know exactly what the next question is going to be, what song is that? 37:39.606 --> 37:40.086 [UNKNOWN]: What's the song? 37:40.186 --> 37:40.666 [UNKNOWN]: What's the song? 37:40.706 --> 37:40.926 [UNKNOWN]: No. 37:41.046 --> 37:42.086 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 37:42.127 --> 37:42.247 [UNKNOWN]: No. 37:42.267 --> 37:42.407 [UNKNOWN]: No. 37:42.447 --> 37:42.607 [UNKNOWN]: No. 37:42.667 --> 37:42.807 [UNKNOWN]: No. 37:42.847 --> 37:43.027 [UNKNOWN]: No. 37:43.067 --> 37:43.227 [UNKNOWN]: No. 37:43.267 --> 37:43.427 [UNKNOWN]: No. 37:43.467 --> 37:43.707 [UNKNOWN]: No. 37:43.807 --> 37:45.708 [UNKNOWN]: You want to build a snowman? 37:45.728 --> 37:46.408 [UNKNOWN]: This one is particular. 37:58.155 --> 38:12.396 [UNKNOWN]: This one right now is a Gracie Abram song called Free Now, but usually I only listen to music on YouTube when I edit so I don't interact so kind of like when I start to edit I click on the recommendation that's there. 38:13.137 --> 38:19.599 [UNKNOWN]: And it builds you on a whole playlist too, so it's like you click on that video and it's actually a playlist of music of related music. 38:19.639 --> 38:22.280 [UNKNOWN]: Yes, yeah, that's there you go. 38:22.360 --> 38:30.503 [UNKNOWN]: So this is the difference between the video and the music is related is like they music needs to be categorized by its style, right? 38:30.803 --> 38:39.867 [UNKNOWN]: And by its adjacency to other things, and listeners are categorized by how adventurous they are, or how much they want things not be by the person they were just listening to. 38:40.627 --> 38:55.094 [UNKNOWN]: These are all vectors through the data space that I don't know anything about, but I do know that basically having a big event every couple of years is sort of the opposite of what Spotify wants you to have. 38:55.614 --> 38:58.115 [UNKNOWN]: Spotify wants you to have a really consistent 39:00.116 --> 39:20.482 [UNKNOWN]: release cadence so that like there's all you're always bringing people into their machine and and I couldn't tell you on YouTube whether or not we like how much we are are we benefit or or or are punished for that but I do know that like not having a consistent channel that that like has something out every Friday is is a problem. 39:20.822 --> 39:21.002 [UNKNOWN]: Right. 39:21.202 --> 39:36.057 [UNKNOWN]: So we post a video every single week on the second channel and like basically once here on on my main channel and the sort of like the difference between the two or the the second channel stuff is kind of just 39:36.698 --> 39:40.580 [UNKNOWN]: Things that are going on, not a ton of efforts sunk into it. 39:40.640 --> 39:47.403 [UNKNOWN]: The main channel is like, here is an idea, and I'm going to spend a couple of weeks like really flushing it out to see what happens. 39:47.423 --> 39:50.865 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, or your Nigel, you spend three years making maggots, three years? 39:52.725 --> 40:14.280 [UNKNOWN]: It's over three years, but it's going to be done soon man, it's going to be I thought you said maga you said magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna magna 40:14.380 --> 40:20.324 [UNKNOWN]: For me, this, I've noticed that like the main channel gets a new audience. 40:20.365 --> 40:23.367 [UNKNOWN]: So if you post a video there, it gets reaching people who see the title. 40:23.387 --> 40:24.908 [UNKNOWN]: Like that's a title thumbnail game. 40:25.148 --> 40:25.368 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 40:25.588 --> 40:27.150 [UNKNOWN]: That's the worst game to play. 40:28.070 --> 40:29.992 [UNKNOWN]: The title thumbnail game is a horrible place to live. 40:30.992 --> 40:47.480 [UNKNOWN]: I believe that although the weekly videos people become accustomed to it and you pretty much can do anything and The title thumbnail game will only it'll push you above whatever that minimum is and so you sort of you have this like guaranteed audience 40:48.080 --> 40:48.981 [UNKNOWN]: And it makes it a lot easier. 40:49.001 --> 40:53.063 [UNKNOWN]: And I think that has to do, you know, the algorithm knows that these people will always watch this. 40:53.123 --> 41:00.087 [UNKNOWN]: And it's so consistent that there's no questions of like, it's not, I was been a year to see if they want to watch this against like, oh, every week they come back. 41:00.107 --> 41:02.429 [UNKNOWN]: So it's like a very safe bet. 41:02.989 --> 41:14.636 [UNKNOWN]: And then sometimes you inevitably do both where you have the consistent audience and then you play the title thumbnail game and it'll bring in like 40% new viewers or sometimes more. 41:16.385 --> 41:17.066 [UNKNOWN]: I believe all that. 41:17.446 --> 41:33.398 [UNKNOWN]: So there's I think there's like a couple of different things like can see, you know, potentially, I mean, I really know much about like the music recommendation, but I definitely could see somehow if their music system works differently, that posting stuff in between, but then why not like two different channels? 41:34.537 --> 41:34.818 [UNKNOWN]: could. 41:34.838 --> 41:42.545 [UNKNOWN]: It just starts to be like, what is your, are you doing this to keep an attention engine running or are you doing this to make the thing? 41:43.085 --> 41:50.573 [UNKNOWN]: And so like what, and I don't know that that many people actually have much clarity between those two things, including ourselves. 41:50.633 --> 41:51.133 [UNKNOWN]: Like there's 41:53.195 --> 42:15.069 [UNKNOWN]: But I really do like I only love making the thing yeah and and I of course I like I get feedback from the world just like everybody else does like it's hard not to be like well why you know like What who's attending to what and why but I don't actually like the the idea of making stuff so that people will keep watching the stuff that I make feels bad to me 42:15.589 --> 42:19.732 [UNKNOWN]: Whereas I want to keep making the thing, what do you want to do? 42:19.752 --> 42:20.412 [UNKNOWN]: What's the thing? 42:20.612 --> 42:22.533 [UNKNOWN]: The music videos, music in general. 42:22.553 --> 42:27.616 [UNKNOWN]: What's your sort of, you know, if you didn't have to play any of the game, like social media games, what would you do? 42:30.468 --> 42:53.622 [UNKNOWN]: To me it is a sort of an amorphous mix between the music and the art project and the art project like has fallen into like this bit we have this like catch all category of music videos, which is exciting, but mostly those are sort of like and I think of them sort of like you're saying your main channels sort of like everyone's in a while there's a like we do this we like. 42:54.442 --> 43:01.467 [UNKNOWN]: could we reach into the realm of impossible for a few minutes and grab this thing and then bring it into existence, such that it always is. 43:02.127 --> 43:11.453 [UNKNOWN]: And that doesn't, that's not so much, like, I guess I think of that visually, but it's not, it's not like, God, I have to make music videos. 43:11.473 --> 43:12.634 [UNKNOWN]: It's like I want to do that our project. 43:14.095 --> 43:19.339 [UNKNOWN]: Now, having said that, music feels like that to me as a plot. 43:19.359 --> 43:31.387 [UNKNOWN]: Like, when I sit down to play guitar or play piano or whatever, like most of the time, you're doing like, well, this sound and then that sound and that's just another like two sounds next to each other. 43:31.607 --> 43:36.810 [UNKNOWN]: And then every once in a while, you do some sounds and there's like a feeling jumps out of it. 43:36.870 --> 43:38.351 [UNKNOWN]: And that is so magical to me. 43:38.391 --> 43:53.039 [UNKNOWN]: I like that weird chemistry of how these two things suddenly make me feel sad and joyous and lusty and questioning all the same. 43:53.059 --> 44:00.023 [UNKNOWN]: Like whatever that weird thing is and being able to, that feels like grabbing something out of the impossible. 44:00.243 --> 44:03.465 [UNKNOWN]: You know, like, that feels like getting your hands on this little piece of magic. 44:03.925 --> 44:25.115 [UNKNOWN]: And so I think if, like, I probably would just sit around and write songs all day, although I know that I would get antsy and then be like, I want to do something else, you know, do you ever hear a melody like, you know, in your dream or something like that or some lyrics and then you just wake up and you can't remember or you can't quite, you know, you're playing an instrument and you just like can't get it back. 44:25.195 --> 44:26.096 [UNKNOWN]: It's just it's gone. 44:26.556 --> 44:32.965 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, or like, or like record it in your phone like it's amazing and then you like go back and listen to it and like I doesn't do the thing at all. 44:32.985 --> 44:33.986 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, okay. 44:34.126 --> 44:36.569 [UNKNOWN]: It made like I was feeling it when I did it. 44:36.609 --> 44:42.858 [UNKNOWN]: So I know it can be in there somewhere and then there's and there's also this there's this thing where it's like sometimes the first sketch of a song you make. 44:43.998 --> 44:45.499 [UNKNOWN]: It's so clear what this is going to be. 44:45.659 --> 45:00.367 [UNKNOWN]: And then, yeah, and then half be like a month or two later you're working on it and you've completely lost that picture and now you're not sure what it's supposed to be at all and it doesn't feel like anything and yeah, but it was so clear that you're like, but why would you trust yourself of a month ago any more than you trust yourself right now? 45:00.627 --> 45:03.548 [UNKNOWN]: We get the same thing when we're editing YouTube videos. 45:03.768 --> 45:09.011 [UNKNOWN]: It's like you're spent, you know, also I'm a lot like you and the fact that you just want to do the thing. 45:09.311 --> 45:13.633 [UNKNOWN]: And then once you have to sit down and worry about how it's going to be interpreted by people and you have to share it. 45:13.673 --> 45:20.416 [UNKNOWN]: Like, oh, that kind of like just sucks the joy out of that, you know, you would rather just kind of do the project for yourself. 45:21.056 --> 45:45.316 [UNKNOWN]: But you know, we get so deep into editing a YouTube video that we kind of lose track of where we are in the video or like if it even makes sense anymore so sometimes I'll share my video to will or even send it to my mom and say hey does this makes sense to you and they'll say oh no like right here like this part doesn't make sense or if I ever cooked it I've over cooked it like you're you know I get it you don't have to explain every step of it. 45:45.356 --> 45:48.699 [UNKNOWN]: I know what you're doing is like I just want to the experiment so why is the rest of this at your panel? 45:48.719 --> 45:49.700 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah. 45:50.060 --> 45:59.304 [UNKNOWN]: And then you have to worry about what people are going to say, and I noticed that in your videos, you have a lot of disclaimers like, oh, all the bread was stale or we recycled all the paper. 45:59.604 --> 46:01.084 [UNKNOWN]: So you're trying to like get ahead of that. 46:01.104 --> 46:02.325 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 46:02.874 --> 46:21.871 [UNKNOWN]: I, I love that because I'm sitting there and I'm like, this is like a fucking awesome art project and it's even if the paper is not recycled is absolutely worth wasting the billion Much paper gets burnt every day coming to every mailbox in this country with a bunch of grocery store ads on it. 46:22.231 --> 46:29.077 [UNKNOWN]: Like, why can't we, why can't we use a truckload of paper to make a fucking awesome thing. 46:30.237 --> 46:37.603 [UNKNOWN]: I think there's also like the part that annoys me is you the same criticism doesn't happen for like what I'm quote big productions. 46:38.344 --> 46:47.631 [UNKNOWN]: So if you don't see up you don't go and watch a movie and you leave furious because transformers in the movie they smash so many cars and they just wasted you know stuff. 46:48.032 --> 46:56.939 [UNKNOWN]: I've never heard anyone really I mean probably people do complain about that but no they complain about like that one guy in a YouTube video who like threw out something that seemed kind of you smashed a 46:58.580 --> 47:02.905 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, the back shoes at all people getting but heard about the papers. 47:02.966 --> 47:05.369 [UNKNOWN]: I like that like there's a little bit. 47:05.849 --> 47:12.798 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, there's always haters, you know, and and like professional and it's so. 47:18.802 --> 47:22.284 [UNKNOWN]: so everywhere that like you can't get that worked up about it. 47:22.304 --> 47:33.312 [UNKNOWN]: I guess it does start to become a question of just like how much of this or do you want to invite into your life or how much of this do you want to spend time fighting against? 47:33.352 --> 47:43.939 [UNKNOWN]: Like for our last album, which we released last April, I guess like almost a year ago, we made lyric videos for almost every song, 47:48.061 --> 48:08.208 [UNKNOWN]: And we tried to like give some real effort to them and we collaborated with like artists, you know, they weren't our big standard okay go like videos where we're doing this big our project it was like someone else is our project that we're sort of like look we want you to run with this just like we want to to feel the song and we and ideally we'd like to read some of the songs so you can understand what's going on. 48:08.768 --> 48:18.261 [UNKNOWN]: And one of the videos was made by this incredible illustrator who in the editing process, he himself is an illustrator makes like still things. 48:18.281 --> 48:24.529 [UNKNOWN]: He worked with an editor to help get from one he's like, we'll go from this animation to this end, like this shape to this shape. 48:25.009 --> 48:25.270 [UNKNOWN]: And the 48:27.112 --> 48:30.374 [UNKNOWN]: was done via a plug-in that uses AI. 48:30.994 --> 48:32.855 [UNKNOWN]: He didn't even know this because it's not his work. 48:32.875 --> 48:36.217 [UNKNOWN]: So he's basically using interpolation to help animate. 48:36.337 --> 48:36.817 [UNKNOWN]: Exactly. 48:37.137 --> 48:38.238 [UNKNOWN]: Or his editor was. 48:38.338 --> 48:38.858 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 48:39.278 --> 48:51.765 [UNKNOWN]: And so it's like several steps removed and the fury on the theory on this, like the Instagram poster, whatever, of this thing that the world is over because of the because AI was used in this, 48:56.767 --> 49:18.859 [UNKNOWN]: It wasn't about how right or wrong those people are, it's just that like that whole thing is now not like like that that video got watched twice as much as as the rest of the of them simply because the commenting was so be like you just see the attention machine at work right now now meta knows that this is a a sticky video because we were fighting about. 49:19.179 --> 49:26.665 [UNKNOWN]: something has nothing to do with any of the content that we care about, whether it's music or the video, and that's a successful video. 49:27.005 --> 49:35.993 [UNKNOWN]: And that is why our politics or what they are, that is why, like America is not nearly as divided as we think it is, it's just that like, 49:36.953 --> 49:39.475 [UNKNOWN]: that anger is even stickier than sex. 49:39.515 --> 49:40.696 [UNKNOWN]: We've just realized in the last time. 49:40.716 --> 49:41.636 [UNKNOWN]: It's all entertainment. 49:41.676 --> 49:43.037 [UNKNOWN]: Like, everything's entertainment. 49:43.137 --> 49:48.761 [UNKNOWN]: It's like, I feel like a lot of people don't actually care about sort of the justice of anything. 49:48.781 --> 49:50.102 [UNKNOWN]: It's just the entertainment of getting mad. 49:50.975 --> 50:17.336 [UNKNOWN]: And and and I is deeply depressing to me that that is sort of like our role now is these sort of like is this passive active consumer right we're passively taking on this stuff and feeling like we're engaging in social justice by being angry or by or like by you know I guess on the other side of the aisle it's it's like you know upending the wrongs of wokeness or whatever that people like it's just it's all it is all 50:18.617 --> 50:25.621 [UNKNOWN]: theater, you know, and it's all theater that like that plays out on your phone while somebody else is like just raking in the box because you're staring at your phone. 50:25.842 --> 50:26.422 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 50:26.742 --> 50:38.049 [UNKNOWN]: And so like this is the part that makes me like I know that's where there is no making culture that is somehow decoupled from these platforms. 50:38.069 --> 50:39.470 [UNKNOWN]: Like this is where culture happens. 50:39.798 --> 50:41.579 [UNKNOWN]: But there's also no making culture. 50:41.659 --> 50:45.962 [UNKNOWN]: Like, you can't sit there and be like, but how many viewers am I getting this month? 50:46.042 --> 50:47.564 [UNKNOWN]: And really feel like that's about your art. 50:47.784 --> 50:48.144 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 50:48.564 --> 50:49.505 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 50:49.625 --> 50:52.827 [UNKNOWN]: And so when you ask, what would I be doing? 50:53.628 --> 51:03.575 [UNKNOWN]: Like, I am, I long for a time when it wasn't so perfectly mediated, when we weren't just like in an intention machine. 51:03.855 --> 51:05.296 [UNKNOWN]: But that's not realistic. 51:05.877 --> 51:16.765 [UNKNOWN]: And I am thankful for the fact that like that we existed for long enough before this, that we have a, there's a wave of what we are, right? 51:16.865 --> 51:25.351 [UNKNOWN]: That like has pushed through and people like know that we're going to do things the hard way and it's going to happen every like we have our thing, right? 51:25.371 --> 51:30.875 [UNKNOWN]: Like we have these crazy videos we make and I love making them and if we get to keep on like if there's a reason to keep on making them 51:32.762 --> 51:55.387 [UNKNOWN]: hang on for dear life and be a plan is to just keep keep doing them yeah well and and there's sort of a stress is that like throughout all of this it is been mostly like the thrill of the thing around the corner which sort of like well the who knew that this was a possibility like well you could make you can make a video in zero gravity like if you get like for it was ten years of pitching that to companies being like 51:55.827 --> 52:22.792 [UNKNOWN]: Really, oh yeah, because like every like Pepsi would come and be like we love we want to do an okay go video with but hold Pepsi And we're like look Pepsi only looks good in zero gravity Yes, yeah, so you're trying and like angles to get on that we've got a $15 Exactly, yeah exactly we could give you a $20 I'm negotiating and it but but like for years we were sort of like that's a possibility, but probably not gonna happen 52:24.653 --> 52:28.094 [UNKNOWN]: And then an airline actually was like, what would you do if we let you borrow a plane? 52:28.155 --> 52:28.815 [UNKNOWN]: We would do this. 52:29.115 --> 52:31.456 [UNKNOWN]: Oh wait, so it wasn't with one of those companies. 52:32.056 --> 52:35.738 [UNKNOWN]: It was zero G or it was not. 52:36.058 --> 52:38.019 [UNKNOWN]: It was not in their commercial aircraft either. 52:38.299 --> 52:40.741 [UNKNOWN]: It was with a science airplane built for that performance. 52:41.041 --> 52:41.421 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, okay. 52:41.441 --> 52:42.181 [UNKNOWN]: Tricked out. 52:42.221 --> 52:42.581 [UNKNOWN]: Like a research. 52:44.102 --> 52:45.164 [UNKNOWN]: I've done that before. 52:45.184 --> 52:45.404 [UNKNOWN]: I went. 52:45.424 --> 52:48.487 [UNKNOWN]: I think it was called zero g was the name of the plane. 52:48.627 --> 52:53.332 [UNKNOWN]: And NASA used to own that plane and then they sold it to like private. 52:53.813 --> 52:59.599 [UNKNOWN]: Like back when they made Apollo 13 was it like that that that was still I think a NASA vehicle. 52:59.939 --> 53:04.644 [UNKNOWN]: Well, and then they they spun it off into a private company and you can go you can go do it for fun. 53:04.896 --> 53:09.260 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's like $4,000 a ticket and it's like totally worth it. 53:09.280 --> 53:13.663 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, they I didn't put TV show, but wow, it's it's amazing. 53:14.104 --> 53:18.627 [UNKNOWN]: So you used to be with a record label. 53:18.647 --> 53:21.450 [UNKNOWN]: I you did like an opinion piece is all long time ago. 53:21.990 --> 53:22.371 [UNKNOWN]: Oh yeah. 53:22.851 --> 53:23.471 [UNKNOWN]: Apple records. 53:24.272 --> 53:39.481 [UNKNOWN]: And then like so I think that I was like a record label, they just like do things for you right how much of the stuff did you guys actually do yourself like the music videos is it all self funded and self organized like yes, basically they're um capital 53:40.721 --> 53:48.730 [UNKNOWN]: Uh, we split from capital largely because of the videos because like we had, um, the treadmill video we had made without their, without their permission or knowledge. 53:48.750 --> 53:56.978 [UNKNOWN]: Like I think in fact, even our manager, I did notice something too that the post date of that video on YouTube now does not feel like it's the original video. 53:57.038 --> 53:57.399 [UNKNOWN]: It's not. 53:57.839 --> 54:07.947 [UNKNOWN]: capital took it down during the during a fight over embedding, which is like, yeah, they deleted your music video. 54:07.967 --> 54:12.351 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we actually still have the like the the invisible posting something. 54:12.371 --> 54:16.914 [UNKNOWN]: So like, yeah, they like just erased 60 million views from it had 60 million views. 54:17.214 --> 54:18.275 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and maybe it's 70. 54:18.315 --> 54:20.337 [UNKNOWN]: It was in the current one has 70 as well. 54:20.497 --> 54:25.181 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so it's like the real view should be like 150, yeah, and they just they're just like, 54:26.682 --> 54:31.764 [UNKNOWN]: They, yeah, I mean, they're not, again, they're not operating on the on the scale of a single video. 54:32.445 --> 54:35.146 [UNKNOWN]: It's a, it's a platform wide decision for them. 54:35.186 --> 54:43.831 [UNKNOWN]: And so they were like in the, you know, in the, I guess late arts, there was a big fight about whether or not they were getting paid enough on on YouTube streams. 54:44.031 --> 54:48.034 [UNKNOWN]: And, and they would get paid less or better if it was embedded. 54:48.114 --> 54:52.956 [UNKNOWN]: So as a strike, they like removed the video from YouTube. 54:54.397 --> 54:56.519 [UNKNOWN]: Really yeah, or required us to do so. 54:56.539 --> 55:11.614 [UNKNOWN]: I can't remember how like because I think we had put it up without their knowledge Yeah, I mentioned and then they might have one it might have been about moving over to Vvo at some point I can't remember, but so how how much of the sort of like YouTube channel are you like do you own that? 55:11.734 --> 55:12.534 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's yours. 55:12.675 --> 55:17.459 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and like the ad revenue does that go through like an agency that goes directly 55:18.580 --> 55:30.526 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, we run our own label now and and I mean that that label literally just puts out us every once in a while we put out a record for friends band or something like that, but it's it is basically just our own our own way to putting things in the world. 55:30.806 --> 55:35.669 [UNKNOWN]: And the reason we split from capital is because after the treadmill video I've been mildly successful. 55:36.009 --> 55:44.393 [UNKNOWN]: Like, I mean, first of all, they like tried to stop us from putting things like that out and then, you know, once the one say it was getting awards and changing the industry, they were like, 55:44.513 --> 55:47.514 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, you shouldn't, you didn't explain it properly, you shouldn't tell the speaker. 55:47.634 --> 56:04.182 [UNKNOWN]: Well, no, no, they just went like, I wasn't allowed to do, I remember how to, an interview with USA today that I could only do if the head of the department was in the room with me because they wanted to be able to be like, see, this is our most successful, like, we all would in it. 56:04.202 --> 56:09.585 [UNKNOWN]: They probably want you to like hire the production company from the label or something like that, too. 56:10.145 --> 56:11.205 [UNKNOWN]: Like a union thing. 56:11.305 --> 56:12.066 [UNKNOWN]: But, look, 56:12.626 --> 56:19.110 [UNKNOWN]: In fairness, nobody was mean-spirited. 56:19.150 --> 56:20.691 [UNKNOWN]: Nobody was doing things for the wrong reasons. 56:20.711 --> 56:23.213 [UNKNOWN]: They were just like, they just gave the way and they tried to flow into a doubt. 56:23.233 --> 56:24.374 [UNKNOWN]: They're too slow to adapt. 56:24.854 --> 56:26.775 [UNKNOWN]: Well, they got one guy. 56:26.795 --> 56:29.357 [UNKNOWN]: You got the guy that's head of the label who wants us to be the strokes. 56:29.497 --> 56:41.184 [UNKNOWN]: And when we're doing a ridiculous choreograph dance in my backyard, the actual quote is something along the lines of like everyone's going to think you're 56:43.645 --> 56:44.686 [UNKNOWN]: But it's not the strokes, man. 56:45.426 --> 56:46.987 [UNKNOWN]: So that's the boss. 56:47.367 --> 56:54.109 [UNKNOWN]: And the guy who's running the internet department has to listen to that guy, and the band who's going like, people like it, what's your problem, you know? 56:55.510 --> 56:59.151 [UNKNOWN]: And so I don't want to re-literate that like that, whatever. 56:59.171 --> 57:02.432 [UNKNOWN]: Just, people were trying to figure out what this was all going to be. 57:02.713 --> 57:06.154 [UNKNOWN]: And we didn't have to figure out what the internet was going to be. 57:06.194 --> 57:07.574 [UNKNOWN]: We just had to figure out what our band was going to be. 57:07.614 --> 57:08.034 [UNKNOWN]: And we knew. 57:09.095 --> 57:11.196 [UNKNOWN]: So for our next album, we were 57:12.436 --> 57:35.043 [UNKNOWN]: We have just like Accidented ourselves into this position of being the video band like I should back up the moment that the treadmill video explodes We are like we realize within like 10 minutes that we are now a one hit wonder who's one hit isn't even the song itself It's like we're those treadmill guys, right and that will like be written on our tombstone like 57:35.463 --> 57:38.185 [UNKNOWN]: You know, Trump's own shape like a treadmill. 57:38.205 --> 57:38.726 [UNKNOWN]: Exactly. 57:39.807 --> 57:48.975 [UNKNOWN]: And and that that you can do one of two things you can like you can go the radio head route and be like, I hate that song and I hate it like I'm too cool for all that which bless them. 57:49.155 --> 57:51.857 [UNKNOWN]: They are like they look they're the greatest rock man of all time. 57:51.877 --> 57:52.137 [UNKNOWN]: Whatever. 57:52.177 --> 57:52.718 [UNKNOWN]: Did they say that? 57:53.238 --> 57:53.999 [UNKNOWN]: They hate creep. 57:54.340 --> 57:54.640 [UNKNOWN]: Okay. 57:54.680 --> 57:55.140 [UNKNOWN]: They hate creep. 57:55.641 --> 57:55.841 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 57:56.222 --> 57:56.682 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, yeah. 57:56.702 --> 57:57.984 [UNKNOWN]: They famous did hate creep. 57:58.164 --> 58:05.833 [UNKNOWN]: I don't know if they like they might have outgrown that, but like there was a their whole rise to fame was all about how much they hated their big hit. 58:07.896 --> 58:13.022 [UNKNOWN]: And I think that's a totally different thing in the late 90s than it is 10 years later. 58:13.462 --> 58:20.770 [UNKNOWN]: But in any event, we could have been like, we're way cooler than a bunch of doorks on treadmills, or you go like, what worked about this? 58:21.230 --> 58:21.591 [UNKNOWN]: And what? 58:21.671 --> 58:23.413 [UNKNOWN]: Like, because we didn't hate it, you know? 58:23.533 --> 58:28.518 [UNKNOWN]: Like, we all, we know, like, we're taking the piss out of ourselves, obviously, to a certain degree. 58:28.538 --> 58:32.743 [UNKNOWN]: And there's like, you can't, you can't look at that and think of yourself as radio at the same time. 58:33.223 --> 58:55.993 [UNKNOWN]: But there was something up there that was not just the dance band right and so what was it was it like and and our feeling was like We we sort of set ourselves out on a course of figuring out what what it was about this art project why had we done in the first place and what else was in that world that we that felt like hour and and so for our next album it was sort of like 58:56.513 --> 59:01.695 [UNKNOWN]: We're going to like, we know that we are now that treadmill band, maybe we could be that video band. 59:01.995 --> 59:06.778 [UNKNOWN]: And in fact, what we feel like in a heart of hearts is that creative band, we just want to chase these creative projects. 59:06.798 --> 59:12.320 [UNKNOWN]: But if like the stepping stones to get there are, go from the treadmill band to that video band to that creative band. 59:12.680 --> 59:15.441 [UNKNOWN]: Well, for our next album, we want to make tons of videos. 59:15.521 --> 59:21.224 [UNKNOWN]: And the label blessed them, we're like, okay, we'll give you a much bigger video budget than we ever would have in any other band. 59:21.244 --> 59:22.184 [UNKNOWN]: What is that? 59:22.204 --> 59:23.485 [UNKNOWN]: What does that look like, number one? 59:23.685 --> 59:49.118 [UNKNOWN]: I think back then it was probably a couple hundred thousand dollars maybe, which is like it's something but when you're talking a production it's not sure but but in 2006 for for or maybe it was in 2005 like whatever it was for a no it was the next one so maybe 2010 but for a band who sells you know like our biggest records of gold record we're not we're not like we're not 59:54.775 --> 59:57.637 [UNKNOWN]: Um, Generous deal from them. 59:57.878 --> 59:59.259 [UNKNOWN]: Look, we were happy with it. 59:59.359 --> 59:59.599 [UNKNOWN]: Okay. 59:59.659 --> 01:00:01.481 [UNKNOWN]: But they didn't follow through. 01:00:01.581 --> 01:00:07.566 [UNKNOWN]: Like we then started making videos and they would, they nickel and dime us on like, well, like, but this one shouldn't have just shouldn't cost that much. 01:00:07.606 --> 01:00:22.438 [UNKNOWN]: You're like, what, we were, so at some point, our manager walked in with just like, look, if you don't want us, like, if you, if, can we, if you don't want us to make these videos, if you're not going to pay for them, can we just leave and like, totally not expecting them to say yes and they're like, yeah, sure, fine. 01:00:23.078 --> 01:00:24.959 [UNKNOWN]: and they gave us back our record and we walked out of there. 01:00:25.300 --> 01:00:27.621 [UNKNOWN]: They just didn't give us shit. 01:00:28.001 --> 01:00:32.925 [UNKNOWN]: And it was the biggest, I mean, and that is a huge gift from them. 01:00:32.945 --> 01:00:37.188 [UNKNOWN]: Like most labels would have been way more punitive and sort of like, no, fuck you, you know. 01:00:37.508 --> 01:00:41.230 [UNKNOWN]: And they, I mean, we had to buy back the rights in some nominal way. 01:00:41.270 --> 01:00:45.994 [UNKNOWN]: It was like we didn't, it wasn't like free money, but it wasn't, but it wasn't punitive. 01:00:46.534 --> 01:00:50.637 [UNKNOWN]: And we started that and so we made, and in fact, I remember that at this point, 01:00:51.732 --> 01:01:07.531 [UNKNOWN]: this was the biggest single leap we took was that state farm paid for our next video it was the rubgolberg machine which which at the time it wasn't like it was a huge amount of money for us it was I think it was $75,000 or $100,000 was just like whole video yeah nothing for what that video cost yeah 01:01:07.791 --> 01:01:21.786 [UNKNOWN]: but for like, in indie band with, well, soon to be indie band with, like, making this on their own to get any, to get a brand sponsor like that, we probably had to pay a little bit on top of that. 01:01:21.826 --> 01:01:24.189 [UNKNOWN]: I can't remember, but like to get any brand sponsor in the door. 01:01:24.209 --> 01:01:25.150 [UNKNOWN]: No, it was without the label. 01:01:25.610 --> 01:01:27.532 [UNKNOWN]: That was without, well, no, came through the label. 01:01:27.692 --> 01:01:27.953 [UNKNOWN]: Okay. 01:01:28.093 --> 01:01:29.574 [UNKNOWN]: Label, they came to the label, like, 01:01:30.595 --> 01:01:39.143 [UNKNOWN]: They wanted to be like be in music and they wanted to be online and the label of course We're like we have an online band. 01:01:39.243 --> 01:01:56.858 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you know, and so like get on a call with them And I remember talking to their marketing people being like we want to make a group-gold room machine I'll describe what that is you like let's say there's a ball that rolls and it hits down a bunch of dominoes And the dominoes might knock something off the end of it and so I describe a group of 01:01:57.879 --> 01:02:06.967 [UNKNOWN]: Wow, and then what no and and how do we integrate state farm into this and at the end of that call the only question was Can can the ball be red? 01:02:10.330 --> 01:02:16.936 [UNKNOWN]: And I was like you know that the ball isn't it like you don't follow the ball the whole video and they're like 01:02:19.655 --> 01:02:20.375 [UNKNOWN]: But could it be red? 01:02:20.835 --> 01:02:30.939 [UNKNOWN]: You know, so like, so, and the deal was like, we had to have a certain amount of red, and we had to have the logo up here on screen for a certain number of seconds. 01:02:31.339 --> 01:02:37.201 [UNKNOWN]: And so knowing that a group Goldberg machine is going to fail all of its times, we've put both in the beginning. 01:02:37.221 --> 01:02:39.762 [UNKNOWN]: We're like, Tim is covered in red paint as soon as you open the video. 01:02:39.822 --> 01:02:42.823 [UNKNOWN]: And the first thing you see is the logo on a little truck that you push it. 01:02:43.443 --> 01:02:52.462 [UNKNOWN]: and and and and they came to set and we're filming and I'm like and I know that what Tim looks like covered in red paint is someone you ensure against. 01:02:54.524 --> 01:02:56.585 [UNKNOWN]: got an actual axe murderer sitting there. 01:02:57.386 --> 01:03:06.450 [UNKNOWN]: And they came there like, and like, and like, and the scary thing for us was that this was before selling out was cool, right? 01:03:06.490 --> 01:03:14.815 [UNKNOWN]: Like, this is, this was very, it was very scary to be like, we're now launching into a world where like, we're getting in bed with brands in a way that's like, 01:03:15.755 --> 01:03:25.362 [UNKNOWN]: It had been very, very uncool to us growing up and certainly it was against our ethos and all sorts of artistic ways and like dangerous, but also opened doors for us to be in charge of what we make. 01:03:25.382 --> 01:03:30.765 [UNKNOWN]: And that video had been filmed was in the can and was ready to release. 01:03:31.886 --> 01:03:36.109 [UNKNOWN]: Let's say it's, I don't remember the days, but we'll say it's January 1st, it's going to be released. 01:03:46.316 --> 01:03:47.798 [UNKNOWN]: come January 15th. 01:03:48.238 --> 01:03:52.683 [UNKNOWN]: And we're like, that video is going to come out two weeks before we're supposed to get out of this contract. 01:03:52.803 --> 01:03:53.604 [UNKNOWN]: I explode. 01:03:54.044 --> 01:03:57.147 [UNKNOWN]: And they're going to be like, no, no, no, no, we never mind. 01:03:57.548 --> 01:03:59.450 [UNKNOWN]: And it came out and exploded. 01:04:00.090 --> 01:04:02.653 [UNKNOWN]: And they had no idea. 01:04:02.673 --> 01:04:05.416 [UNKNOWN]: Well, they didn't, or they were cool about it and didn't care. 01:04:05.456 --> 01:04:06.217 [UNKNOWN]: But whatever it was like, 01:04:06.937 --> 01:04:11.423 [UNKNOWN]: It's a a video breaking YouTube at that point wasn't there. 01:04:11.643 --> 01:04:17.711 [UNKNOWN]: It still wasn't there model their model was like that that was well, are we getting paid on the streams? 01:04:19.015 --> 01:04:28.942 [UNKNOWN]: You know, like, that how is it embedded like are we getting maximum, you know, royalties per a lot of it's really funny because like your videos depended on being like viral. 01:04:28.962 --> 01:04:39.549 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, that was like how you guys got started and then for the record label to come in and like totally remove the sharing feature from those videos is like shooting themselves in the foot completely. 01:04:40.289 --> 01:04:59.520 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, if we want to get into like that at the release of our second album, the one on which the treadmill song here goes again appears we were determined to be a a perfect example of college rock and colleges is where iPods Which you guys may have heard of these things are before you guys were born. 01:04:59.540 --> 01:05:07.384 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, no, I thought I wanted high school they college students like iPods and what iPods do is they have a legal music on them 01:05:07.824 --> 01:05:08.764 [UNKNOWN]: And that is, they don't. 01:05:08.845 --> 01:05:09.085 [UNKNOWN]: Yes. 01:05:09.545 --> 01:05:20.870 [UNKNOWN]: And so our second album was to be released with with digital rice management DRM software that that made it so that thank God you couldn't put this music on an iPod. 01:05:20.950 --> 01:05:22.011 [UNKNOWN]: Right, God forbid. 01:05:22.251 --> 01:05:30.935 [UNKNOWN]: And we were like, wait a second, you're saying that people who pay for the record, the people who actually go out and buy it, the legal way are then prevented from having it on their music list in Dubai. 01:05:31.115 --> 01:05:32.196 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, like exactly. 01:05:32.216 --> 01:05:34.498 [UNKNOWN]: So they have to pay for it, and they have to pay for empire. 01:05:34.518 --> 01:05:34.778 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:05:35.118 --> 01:05:37.360 [UNKNOWN]: But they're punished for having paid for it. 01:05:37.400 --> 01:05:50.410 [UNKNOWN]: So, and look, look, I do believe that music, like I think that streaming music and the fact that nobody that our recordings have been reduced to a value of a zero is a problem. 01:05:50.490 --> 01:05:53.953 [UNKNOWN]: Was a problem was a foreseen problem and they were right to be fighting against it. 01:05:54.173 --> 01:05:54.373 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:05:54.433 --> 01:06:00.395 [UNKNOWN]: But going to a bunch of college kids and saying, um, you, like, thank you for paying for this now. 01:06:00.495 --> 01:06:01.255 [UNKNOWN]: You can't have it. 01:06:01.555 --> 01:06:02.515 [UNKNOWN]: By the way, accelerated it. 01:06:03.155 --> 01:06:04.416 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, make just a little. 01:06:04.496 --> 01:06:04.776 [UNKNOWN]: You think? 01:06:05.396 --> 01:06:20.360 [UNKNOWN]: And, um, and so we actually, we recorded, we were, we turned in that album with a, um, a very special, um, hidden track on it, which was the love letter that my girlfriend at the time had sent me while I was making that album in Sweden. 01:06:20.820 --> 01:06:26.082 [UNKNOWN]: Which happened to be exactly 30 to whatever in 31 minutes and whatever seconds long. 01:06:26.142 --> 01:06:28.583 [UNKNOWN]: It was exactly the length of the available bytes on the CD. 01:06:29.224 --> 01:06:29.784 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, awesome. 01:06:29.804 --> 01:06:31.385 [UNKNOWN]: We just like, I wrapped it out. 01:06:31.425 --> 01:06:33.946 [UNKNOWN]: The real thing was a recording of her sleeping. 01:06:34.966 --> 01:06:37.527 [UNKNOWN]: Because I was like, I'm just going to make a process art piece. 01:06:37.547 --> 01:06:44.170 [UNKNOWN]: It'll be like a, it'll be like a Steve Riley piece at the end of the album that just goes for exactly the number of minutes. 01:06:44.410 --> 01:06:44.710 [UNKNOWN]: We have it. 01:06:44.730 --> 01:06:49.613 [UNKNOWN]: And I sat in my studio the day before the album was due, trying to come up with like a 31 minute piece. 01:06:49.673 --> 01:06:52.174 [UNKNOWN]: It was just like one long tone and I hated everything. 01:06:52.194 --> 01:06:53.454 [UNKNOWN]: I came up with it as I get in the end. 01:06:53.474 --> 01:07:00.818 [UNKNOWN]: I was like, I guess I'll just go record her sleeping and so there's just a record a recording of her sleeping that takes up every available. 01:07:01.038 --> 01:07:05.021 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, and they didn't know they were like, they tried, they would put it through QC. 01:07:05.041 --> 01:07:11.065 [UNKNOWN]: They'd like, they would, they, the album was returned in and they would press it onto a CD and then go through quality control. 01:07:11.605 --> 01:07:17.409 [UNKNOWN]: And the, the digital rights manifest offer, I just kept on like not working like it for some reason. 01:07:17.429 --> 01:07:18.870 [UNKNOWN]: Just get rejected over and over again. 01:07:22.312 --> 01:07:33.539 [UNKNOWN]: And for years, our fans would be like, what, like, I put this on on random or like, and the streaming version of it for years, how to, you know, like a 31-minute silent track on the end of it was felt terrible. 01:07:34.980 --> 01:07:42.685 [UNKNOWN]: Now that we're off the label and not, enough years away we're allowed to tell that story and there's a, like, that's obviously not part of, like, a music of that album. 01:07:42.805 --> 01:07:45.827 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, they were aggressively anti, 01:07:47.408 --> 01:07:49.669 [UNKNOWN]: uh, anti their own consumer world. 01:07:49.689 --> 01:07:49.849 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:07:49.989 --> 01:07:59.855 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, I went through a similar management thing before where, you know, they were taking, I think like 30% of my money and they weren't doing anything in return and they really fought me when I tried to leave. 01:08:00.075 --> 01:08:00.315 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:08:00.656 --> 01:08:07.720 [UNKNOWN]: But I've also tried to like license music before and it's just the whole licensing system in music is wild. 01:08:07.780 --> 01:08:11.382 [UNKNOWN]: Like for somebody who's not a part of it, you know, it's like, oh, you think this guy made the song. 01:08:11.802 --> 01:08:14.604 [UNKNOWN]: He, like, you know, if I said, hey, can I use your music in my 01:08:16.265 --> 01:08:24.831 [UNKNOWN]: don't talk I have like yeah you can but it's not up to me so you have to talk to all these different people yeah is very elaborate and confusing it can be. 01:08:25.011 --> 01:08:43.424 [UNKNOWN]: I've heard that the way YouTube monetization works like at a high level is there's apparently six dollars of every subscription like if you buy YouTube premiums, six dollars immediately goes to the label like the 01:08:45.505 --> 01:08:46.947 [UNKNOWN]: and keep them happy and on the platform. 01:08:47.027 --> 01:08:48.989 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's basically a minimum guarantee. 01:08:49.109 --> 01:08:51.612 [UNKNOWN]: And that's for the negotiation, right? 01:08:51.652 --> 01:08:59.360 [UNKNOWN]: Because obviously, if you have a streaming service like YouTube music, you don't want to be missing a third of all music. 01:08:59.400 --> 01:09:03.584 [UNKNOWN]: Do you know whether or not that is given to them just as equity? 01:09:03.945 --> 01:09:06.047 [UNKNOWN]: Like, I think it's cash. 01:09:06.187 --> 01:09:12.951 [UNKNOWN]: But is that, but it's not, it's not into a fun that is then distributed to the dark. 01:09:13.151 --> 01:09:14.632 [UNKNOWN]: It might be, I will see why they will. 01:09:14.652 --> 01:09:17.853 [UNKNOWN]: So I think that, I think that's where things start to get. 01:09:17.933 --> 01:09:29.260 [UNKNOWN]: Because one of my, one of my questions I wrote down is about transparency in, like, with your YouTube channel, yeah, who was claiming ad revenue? 01:09:29.280 --> 01:09:31.101 [UNKNOWN]: Was that going through them before? 01:09:32.001 --> 01:09:39.587 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, I mean, like there was no ad ribbon, right, but at some point, was there ever overlap between you being with the label and ad revenue? 01:09:39.607 --> 01:09:40.607 [UNKNOWN]: Not really. 01:09:40.727 --> 01:09:43.349 [UNKNOWN]: I don't remember if there was, I don't remember how we dealt with it. 01:09:43.609 --> 01:09:44.070 [UNKNOWN]: Okay. 01:09:44.690 --> 01:09:48.533 [UNKNOWN]: Um, I mean, you know, our ad revenue is like, 01:09:49.805 --> 01:09:52.887 [UNKNOWN]: is, you know, it's, it's real dollars. 01:09:52.927 --> 01:09:55.169 [UNKNOWN]: It's not enough to pay like any one man members. 01:09:55.189 --> 01:09:56.650 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you know what I mean, it's right. 01:09:57.030 --> 01:10:05.196 [UNKNOWN]: We don't, this is also the problem with having a channel that has like one huge hit every six months or a year is like, you need something all the time to get the idea. 01:10:05.257 --> 01:10:08.399 [UNKNOWN]: So it's like not our way of getting paid very much. 01:10:10.280 --> 01:10:12.482 [UNKNOWN]: But there is, I do know that like, 01:10:14.385 --> 01:10:19.910 [UNKNOWN]: The story that's told around the music industry and I, you know, people can debate this in the comments. 01:10:20.795 --> 01:10:44.647 [UNKNOWN]: Is that like Spotify when Spotify wanted to get rights to all these catalogs went to the labels and said you can have equity in Spotify and what that means is that when Spotify, you know, grows 100x then that investment investment by the labels goes 100x and that is not pinned to anyone artist so whoever owns that label gets 100x on their investment when that investment was rewrites to the these. 01:10:44.947 --> 01:10:46.088 [UNKNOWN]: to all their artists. 01:10:46.108 --> 01:10:54.293 [UNKNOWN]: So, which is why when you know a song gets streamed, it is zero money moves through royalties, essentially. 01:10:54.774 --> 01:10:58.136 [UNKNOWN]: Because the platform is what's valuable, not the music. 01:10:58.296 --> 01:10:59.357 [UNKNOWN]: Yes, I, yeah. 01:10:59.437 --> 01:11:09.323 [UNKNOWN]: And I think that is how the YouTube deal works, according to what I know, it's not an equity thing, but it's a minimum guarantee, and then the artists get paid. 01:11:09.743 --> 01:11:12.325 [UNKNOWN]: So the plot, like the label gets paid, 01:11:13.866 --> 01:11:14.066 [UNKNOWN]: Right. 01:11:14.826 --> 01:11:16.847 [UNKNOWN]: And that does not get transferred to the artist. 01:11:16.907 --> 01:11:23.730 [UNKNOWN]: And so if somebody doesn't listen, then the artist doesn't get paid, but the minimum guarantee still comes in. 01:11:24.411 --> 01:11:27.712 [UNKNOWN]: And if they do listen, the minimum guarantee doesn't go to it. 01:11:27.752 --> 01:11:34.155 [UNKNOWN]: Like if you if you listen over and over and over again to the Irish, really Irish is not getting that. 01:11:34.555 --> 01:11:36.357 [UNKNOWN]: $6, like it's getting whatever else. 01:11:36.437 --> 01:11:36.597 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:11:36.897 --> 01:11:46.906 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, unless I suppose she probably comes to mind because I'm sure there are artists big enough that they can actually go into those labels and be like, you know, we want our percentage of yeah. 01:11:47.406 --> 01:11:47.746 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:11:48.227 --> 01:11:50.929 [UNKNOWN]: But, you know, that's, that's not us. 01:11:51.129 --> 01:12:04.617 [UNKNOWN]: I have a suspicion because I also know that like the the ad revenue cuts for creators versus music is it is it's significantly better for music. 01:12:08.120 --> 01:12:10.303 [UNKNOWN]: whatever that ends up actually meaning. 01:12:10.343 --> 01:12:12.225 [UNKNOWN]: I'm sure that probably is true. 01:12:12.545 --> 01:12:15.028 [UNKNOWN]: I'm sure that is because of this, these mental rights hold. 01:12:15.208 --> 01:12:15.669 [UNKNOWN]: Right. 01:12:15.709 --> 01:12:26.441 [UNKNOWN]: Because there's not, you're not part of, you as a creator are not part of a enormous rights database that is owned by someone like, you know, like, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, 01:12:27.662 --> 01:12:36.710 [UNKNOWN]: If you want to put a Beatles song in your commercial, the cheapest part of that will be a recording that anybody can make of a Beatles song. 01:12:37.150 --> 01:12:41.154 [UNKNOWN]: The expensive part of that is the idea that is the Beatles song. 01:12:42.515 --> 01:12:47.479 [UNKNOWN]: And that's just, that's a rights, that is a rights structure 01:12:51.505 --> 01:13:04.794 [UNKNOWN]: No, no, because YouTube kind of depends on being able to share from each other and like share clips of videos, but, you know, once you, if you do that in music, you know, sample another song, it's like, you know, you're stealing my work and, you know, people get upset over that. 01:13:04.914 --> 01:13:15.381 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, I guess they, that happens on YouTube, too, with streamers who just sit there in the corner of the stream and watching somebody else's bar is way lower with the musical just sort of get you obliterated. 01:13:15.502 --> 01:13:16.162 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, yeah. 01:13:16.522 --> 01:13:17.323 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, definitely. 01:13:17.343 --> 01:13:18.704 [UNKNOWN]: I don't know. 01:13:18.764 --> 01:13:19.004 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, 01:13:20.473 --> 01:13:42.508 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, I was going to say what to what Kevin said, because in music, if you steal someone's idea, yeah, people are up in arms, but if I like something you did, Kevin, I could just literally, uh, and it's happened before borderline word for word, recreate your entire video, yeah, shot for shot, and there's kind of like not really anything you can do about it for better or worse, you know. 01:13:43.714 --> 01:13:58.260 [UNKNOWN]: Hmm, so is there any transparency like in that pipeline like or or like how many how many artists do you think have the ability to be like hey, can you like explain where these royalties come from from like YouTube streaming and like they would actually know what the breakdown is. 01:13:59.320 --> 01:14:02.041 [UNKNOWN]: I'm sure there are artists who care enough to track it. 01:14:02.061 --> 01:14:03.162 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, really closely. 01:14:03.582 --> 01:14:08.704 [UNKNOWN]: I'm not well, I mean, I, you know, every once in a while, I, I like. 01:14:10.303 --> 01:14:13.705 [UNKNOWN]: go through statements to make sure that like it all seems to make sense. 01:14:14.365 --> 01:14:26.071 [UNKNOWN]: But I guess the problem is when you have little leverage to change anything and everything is an accumulation of little drops here and there. 01:14:27.092 --> 01:14:30.173 [UNKNOWN]: It's the same with music royalties. 01:14:31.594 --> 01:14:32.815 [UNKNOWN]: We've been writing songs that have 01:14:41.095 --> 01:14:50.540 [UNKNOWN]: that, you know, something plays on cable TV in, in, you know, Italy as a rerun and like we got seven cents from a dismount. 01:14:51.020 --> 01:14:51.360 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:14:51.561 --> 01:14:54.822 [UNKNOWN]: And there's, you know, there's a huge, huge catalyst. 01:14:56.343 --> 01:15:05.651 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but but there's also there's so there are businesses set up to basically deal with all that stuff that that's that's why that these rights are so difficult is because like until recently. 01:15:07.652 --> 01:15:09.374 [UNKNOWN]: Happy birthday was still owned by one. 01:15:09.414 --> 01:15:16.560 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, like because of a a that's why he had the weird off brand happy birthday that would play it restaurants and stuff like that. 01:15:16.860 --> 01:15:17.040 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:15:17.200 --> 01:15:25.307 [UNKNOWN]: And like, but if you were the school teacher who had written happy birthday, you would be pretty psyched that your song was like, yeah. 01:15:25.427 --> 01:15:27.228 [UNKNOWN]: And you would also want to be paid for it. 01:15:27.388 --> 01:15:28.609 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:15:29.010 --> 01:15:31.211 [UNKNOWN]: Or at least you'd sell your 50 years. 01:15:31.452 --> 01:15:38.017 [UNKNOWN]: Well, you'd sell it to Warner Chapel and they would do their best to make sure that the thing that they had purchased was still maintained as value for as long as it could. 01:15:38.417 --> 01:15:46.682 [UNKNOWN]: So I've been on the other side, I've been a film director and licensed songs from Queen. 01:15:47.543 --> 01:15:53.106 [UNKNOWN]: When you license a song from Queen, if it's, if it's we will rock you, it's going to be very expensive. 01:15:53.906 --> 01:16:03.632 [UNKNOWN]: And if it's a song from that same album that nobody knows, but you happened to love because you listened to it a lot in your teenager, it's very likely that Queen will Queen and Queen's representatives will understand. 01:16:03.652 --> 01:16:04.573 [UNKNOWN]: This is actually a pretty good, 01:16:05.113 --> 01:16:08.294 [UNKNOWN]: Like, this helps build the idea that Queen is an awesome band. 01:16:08.374 --> 01:16:20.480 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, this is exactly like more people learn about more songs from Queen and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's no way undercutting the awesomeness of Queen, those like, not it was not significantly more expensive than it would be to put an okay goes on. 01:16:20.520 --> 01:16:21.580 [UNKNOWN]: Because they were just psyched about it. 01:16:21.600 --> 01:16:28.023 [UNKNOWN]: You know, like, they're not unreasonable people, but they do own an incredibly valuable piece of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, 01:16:28.263 --> 01:16:37.591 [UNKNOWN]: Right, you know, like a copy right and I got it like so there's a reason why that all is the way it is It is often like there are loopholes through it. 01:16:37.631 --> 01:16:38.631 [UNKNOWN]: There are problems with it. 01:16:38.651 --> 01:16:51.782 [UNKNOWN]: There are ways it doesn't work the way it should But you can understand why like if you're if you've written happy birthday Yeah, and it's I mean you're you're the royalty statement's going to be very very very very long and complicated and we know 01:16:52.522 --> 01:16:57.207 [UNKNOWN]: It's interesting that there's like a generification for like brand names, like you like taser or clean eggs. 01:16:57.227 --> 01:16:57.748 [UNKNOWN]: They're what not. 01:16:58.088 --> 01:17:00.711 [UNKNOWN]: But something like happy birthday can retain. 01:17:00.731 --> 01:17:05.015 [UNKNOWN]: Because I think that I bet you 99.99% of people that sing happy birthday happen. 01:17:05.236 --> 01:17:08.299 [UNKNOWN]: No idea that they are basically like halfway to prison. 01:17:08.519 --> 01:17:09.580 [UNKNOWN]: Well, you know, it's good. 01:17:09.600 --> 01:17:12.163 [UNKNOWN]: Because there's no, there's nothing illegal about you, you performing anyone. 01:17:12.423 --> 01:17:30.097 [UNKNOWN]: It's just the publishing of it, but if you will come back on Instagram, that I don't know, social media is a much is a much gray area from the stuff here you have it's being it's being, you know, like litigated all the time because yeah, like I'm sure what if you do a shop by shop recreation of somebody else's 01:17:31.530 --> 01:17:32.330 [UNKNOWN]: Bill on YouTube. 01:17:32.651 --> 01:17:47.519 [UNKNOWN]: I'm sure there's a legal case there whether or not you'd win it or not and whether or not you would you would be able to afford the to take it all the way through the court process or not, like, but here's an example of how like to money always wins this battle. 01:17:47.980 --> 01:17:50.801 [UNKNOWN]: We the treadmill video came out in 2006 or seven. 01:17:52.582 --> 01:17:59.246 [UNKNOWN]: And it was, and, and, and a giant drug company from Europe was like, we want to use one of those. 01:17:59.626 --> 01:18:11.253 [UNKNOWN]: We want, we want that video for our, for a commercial for our, um, in fact, I guess I can just say who it is for, for a, for Baracka, which was a, like, an energy drink tablet. 01:18:11.373 --> 01:18:12.874 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but there's, in, in, in your opinion. 01:18:12.894 --> 01:18:12.994 [UNKNOWN]: Okay. 01:18:13.215 --> 01:18:14.115 [UNKNOWN]: You know, and dissolves, 01:18:15.876 --> 01:18:24.868 [UNKNOWN]: And they were like, and the idea here is that you, like, if you drink one of these, you'll be like, these nerds on treadmill, you'll be running fast because jump high. 01:18:24.988 --> 01:18:27.532 [UNKNOWN]: In your life, it's full of creativity and awareness. 01:18:28.833 --> 01:18:30.596 [UNKNOWN]: And it was a very hard 01:18:31.797 --> 01:18:46.479 [UNKNOWN]: like this was before we had done the thing with state farmer anything it was like we had to figure out how like okay so what's our setup point we now we're now one hit one and it's going to start like this is going to be a commercial for a yeah get that bag 01:18:47.300 --> 01:19:10.165 [UNKNOWN]: But it was like, but if we, if this was enough to pay for our whole next album, you know, or if like, if this could pay for three more videos or 10 more videos or whatever, maybe so it's like, so we negotiated for several months to get exactly what the cause of that of that it would be for them to redo not with us, but from to use this song, use the native of us as with and refill it. 01:19:10.905 --> 01:19:11.365 [UNKNOWN]: as a commercial. 01:19:11.385 --> 01:19:12.926 [UNKNOWN]: So you're not, you're not in the out at all. 01:19:12.946 --> 01:19:13.306 [UNKNOWN]: I don't think so. 01:19:13.366 --> 01:19:13.826 [UNKNOWN]: I can't remember. 01:19:13.846 --> 01:19:17.788 [UNKNOWN]: I don't, it was licensed in some way, but it was to substantially remake it. 01:19:18.208 --> 01:19:23.190 [UNKNOWN]: And, um, and as soon as we agreed to a price, they went, they won't silent. 01:19:23.731 --> 01:19:27.072 [UNKNOWN]: And the six weeks later it came out, um, he did it anyway. 01:19:27.132 --> 01:19:27.712 [UNKNOWN]: They did anyway. 01:19:28.213 --> 01:19:28.973 [UNKNOWN]: It was, it was different. 01:19:29.013 --> 01:19:29.893 [UNKNOWN]: It was a sound like song. 01:19:29.913 --> 01:19:30.854 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, it wasn't the same song. 01:19:30.874 --> 01:19:31.974 [UNKNOWN]: It was a little different all these different ways. 01:19:32.014 --> 01:19:37.777 [UNKNOWN]: But like the, the only reason for the negotiation was because that sets an upper limit on how much we can see them for. 01:19:38.497 --> 01:19:45.303 [UNKNOWN]: Because in England, you can only assume for what the market value is and we have started to market value by agreeing with them what it was. 01:19:45.423 --> 01:19:55.352 [UNKNOWN]: You see, and so to get whatever that was, which was a fair amount of money to an indie rock band was still like the legal fees to get it back. 01:19:55.892 --> 01:20:02.998 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, we're higher than I feel like if anyone does legal process, you're talking like, 01:20:03.819 --> 01:20:11.701 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, maybe even has to be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars be worth it because lawyers will just like, yeah, but yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 01:20:12.041 --> 01:20:21.544 [UNKNOWN]: And over the end, and the, and the, the, and the precedent was a, a commercial, a, um, Guinness commercial. 01:20:22.064 --> 01:20:25.666 [UNKNOWN]: which had ripped off a dance piece. 01:20:26.086 --> 01:20:28.607 [UNKNOWN]: Basically, the what it came down to was this. 01:20:29.067 --> 01:20:31.769 [UNKNOWN]: You cannot, they didn't use your song exactly. 01:20:32.509 --> 01:20:37.011 [UNKNOWN]: And the choreography on the treadmills wasn't identical. 01:20:37.491 --> 01:20:46.176 [UNKNOWN]: So, so you can't copyright the idea of dancing on treadmills, but you can copyright those specific rules. 01:20:46.356 --> 01:20:46.696 [UNKNOWN]: Okay. 01:20:47.076 --> 01:20:59.105 [UNKNOWN]: So we could have like the it came down to whether or not there were enough exact moves that were precisely our moves For it to be actionable and the 80% dance. 01:20:59.165 --> 01:21:10.233 [UNKNOWN]: Exactly and the and the and the Lawyers said you guys have a very good case you have a I think it's like 57% chance of winning. 01:21:10.253 --> 01:21:11.274 [UNKNOWN]: That's the best we've ever given 01:21:12.825 --> 01:21:14.266 [UNKNOWN]: That's a very lower thing to say. 01:21:14.306 --> 01:21:15.946 [UNKNOWN]: You know, how do you calculate those? 01:21:15.966 --> 01:21:18.207 [UNKNOWN]: Wow, so maybe it was great. 01:21:18.267 --> 01:21:32.472 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but it was like, I remember in my head, rounding it to 60, 40, that we had a 60% chance of winning a case that would, and if we lose, we pay their legal fees as well as our own. 01:21:32.792 --> 01:21:34.793 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:21:34.893 --> 01:21:35.693 [UNKNOWN]: And get nothing for it. 01:21:35.713 --> 01:21:39.414 [UNKNOWN]: And so it's like, so we could be down, you know, many hundreds of thousands of dollars 01:21:41.355 --> 01:21:41.635 [UNKNOWN]: a little. 01:21:41.735 --> 01:21:58.720 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, because because of the cost, and that was exactly the reason for the negotiation, the first place was just to be like, and there was a realization at some point in the past five years I've had where I realized a contract actually doesn't mean anything unless you're willing to sue somebody. 01:21:58.740 --> 01:22:02.962 [UNKNOWN]: But, and there's literally nothing that you can do. 01:22:03.002 --> 01:22:06.163 [UNKNOWN]: You can be like, hey, you said you were going to do this and you didn't do it and they're like, what are you going 01:22:08.763 --> 01:22:30.809 [UNKNOWN]: I remember I was thinking about this I'm dealing with some construction right now and was thinking about how I remember getting a deck built on the back of my house when I was in the 20s it was the first thing it was first house I'd never own and it was like the first like piece of construction I'd done to it and I was like you know it and the and the guy just didn't finish it it had a it had like a prefad spiral staircase and he just was like 01:22:32.566 --> 01:22:34.047 [UNKNOWN]: Didn't do that part because that was expensive. 01:22:34.688 --> 01:22:45.055 [UNKNOWN]: Did the other stuff like got the you know 50% down payment or whatever just walked out and like I remember Like calling and screaming and it was just like He just would just like listen to me scream. 01:22:45.075 --> 01:22:47.317 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, or hang up, but like what do you do right. 01:22:47.557 --> 01:22:52.561 [UNKNOWN]: So him or whatever the exact same amount of money that would cost to hire someone else to finish the rest of it. 01:22:52.601 --> 01:22:54.122 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, I mean, we'll cause way more to zoom in. 01:22:55.269 --> 01:22:55.990 [UNKNOWN]: It goes the other way. 01:22:56.010 --> 01:23:11.121 [UNKNOWN]: I've like a family friend who does AC repairs and stuff, and he says that it's not I won't say common, but it's happened to him where he does a massive big project and a repair like thousands of dollars worth and he goes tell the person like, hey, I'm done. 01:23:11.141 --> 01:23:20.528 [UNKNOWN]: The guy's like, okay, leave and he's like, I'm not paying you not at all for the job and that that no, he's just like he's just like, what are you going to do about it. 01:23:21.009 --> 01:23:22.370 [UNKNOWN]: He doesn't take it down payment or anything. 01:23:23.953 --> 01:23:26.535 [UNKNOWN]: I think he took a very small, like, this is your uncle. 01:23:26.655 --> 01:23:28.236 [UNKNOWN]: He's like, that barely, sorry. 01:23:28.316 --> 01:23:28.956 [UNKNOWN]: This is your uncle. 01:23:30.197 --> 01:23:32.259 [UNKNOWN]: No, I hope he doesn't know I'm here on the show. 01:23:32.999 --> 01:23:35.321 [UNKNOWN]: I should tell you, who is it, a family friend? 01:23:36.161 --> 01:23:36.842 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's just a family friend. 01:23:36.862 --> 01:23:37.803 [UNKNOWN]: I should tell him that he's stupid. 01:23:37.823 --> 01:23:40.124 [UNKNOWN]: But he, no, but he took it down payment. 01:23:40.144 --> 01:23:41.125 [UNKNOWN]: It like covers the equipment. 01:23:41.145 --> 01:23:45.328 [UNKNOWN]: But it's like he spent like, you know, a long time assembling it, putting it all together and installing it. 01:23:45.348 --> 01:23:46.549 [UNKNOWN]: And they're like, what are you going to do? 01:23:46.589 --> 01:23:46.889 [UNKNOWN]: That's funny. 01:23:46.909 --> 01:23:47.809 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, he makes a YouTube video. 01:23:47.829 --> 01:23:49.310 [UNKNOWN]: He goes and grips it all the way back. 01:23:49.350 --> 01:23:50.011 [UNKNOWN]: You come in. 01:23:50.491 --> 01:23:54.573 [UNKNOWN]: Well, he actually can't he actually asked me at the time this how I know about it. 01:23:54.633 --> 01:24:06.318 [UNKNOWN]: He calls me and he's like How much do you know he goes what can we do to destroy thousands of dollars worth of AC equipment and I'm like, what do you mean and he's like at night I want to destroy a lot of AC 01:24:10.279 --> 01:24:20.022 [UNKNOWN]: He had no other way to like get it back because he's just like the guys told him you come back to our property like you're gonna have a problem And he's like and they he's like I'll call the cops. 01:24:20.042 --> 01:24:37.828 [UNKNOWN]: He's like, okay, I call the cops to see what happens like they were just pushing it as far as they could to like call his bluff This is why I just do everything myself, but you know, even looking at you guys as big projects like you can't do everything yourself So like how do you manage that with the big videos and dealing with you know people that don't do you know 01:24:38.315 --> 01:24:42.977 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, generally, we have stumbled for better or worse. 01:24:42.997 --> 01:24:54.501 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, definitely for better, but like, through many missteps along the way, into a position where like, most creative people who like making big or project, right? 01:24:54.521 --> 01:24:58.383 [UNKNOWN]: Like dogs want want to be want to make something that we want to make. 01:24:58.883 --> 01:24:59.423 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, yes. 01:24:59.523 --> 01:25:01.824 [UNKNOWN]: That, let me, let me come at this from a different position. 01:25:02.224 --> 01:25:04.325 [UNKNOWN]: If you work in commercial film, 01:25:05.338 --> 01:25:05.859 [UNKNOWN]: you do that. 01:25:05.879 --> 01:25:11.324 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, like nobody becomes a musician or a filmmaker because they're like, this is a great way to make money, right? 01:25:11.344 --> 01:25:13.247 [UNKNOWN]: Like you do it because you love that thing. 01:25:13.287 --> 01:25:19.593 [UNKNOWN]: You saw a film once it transported you or you saw many, like you want to be the person who makes that art that changes lives, you know? 01:25:20.114 --> 01:25:24.358 [UNKNOWN]: And you grew up listening to this music and how do you got to make music like that so that other people are moving the same way. 01:25:24.378 --> 01:25:25.399 [UNKNOWN]: You want to be part of that. 01:25:26.080 --> 01:25:49.656 [UNKNOWN]: And then the actual reality of that is that you're a gaffer or you're a, you know, or you're an assistant director, like you're a director director, but like most of the time, even as a director director, you're working for a commercial agency who is working for a brand and like who's working for a, you know, a mid-level marketing person at a brand who has to respond to a CMO who has to respond to their board. 01:25:49.716 --> 01:25:51.517 [UNKNOWN]: It's not what you thought it was going to be when you 01:25:51.897 --> 01:26:19.303 [UNKNOWN]: Well, or you, as you get, as you did more and more and more of it, you learn to think that this is what it's going to be or you learn to find the art in that, but the truth is that there's always, you know, there's the, your hours are always transactional to at some level right and you're going and there's going to be a lot of work that is like, like the film people always say like one for the meal, one for the real right like you making one to get paid and then you make one that you love. 01:26:19.863 --> 01:26:25.248 [UNKNOWN]: And the the the the real is like this is the thing I'm proud of the meal is your money. 01:26:25.668 --> 01:26:47.687 [UNKNOWN]: And the the okay go video is almost always people's real right it's like it's the it's the thing that they're they're like that's the one chance they get to do to make something really, really, really beautiful and really over the top and where like when when push comes to shove and and like we were we've had hit the last minute of our paid film shoot and we still haven't got it. 01:26:48.107 --> 01:27:06.870 [UNKNOWN]: We will find a way to pay for over time to make sure that we can stay here another six hours until we have that shot because like there's the B plus version of this video does no good for the band at all and They're like that even though that may be the case for a crest commercial you're not going to find somebody in the crest marketing department saying the 01:27:07.050 --> 01:27:08.611 [UNKNOWN]: plus version of this makes no difference for us. 01:27:09.011 --> 01:27:10.092 [UNKNOWN]: Like keep going, right? 01:27:10.112 --> 01:27:10.793 [UNKNOWN]: They have a budget. 01:27:10.853 --> 01:27:12.293 [UNKNOWN]: And like yeah. 01:27:13.034 --> 01:27:23.401 [UNKNOWN]: And so when it comes to finding people and working with people on our projects, we tend to only attract the people in the first place who are like, I recognize this is going to be really hard. 01:27:23.701 --> 01:27:25.542 [UNKNOWN]: I recognize that I'm not going to get paid for this. 01:27:25.562 --> 01:27:28.144 [UNKNOWN]: What I would if it were a hardcore commercial. 01:27:28.844 --> 01:27:45.780 [UNKNOWN]: But I, but I'm gonna make the thing I love and I'm gonna love making it like there are really really really fun projects to make there really really hard projects to make there's a lot of sleepless nights there's a lot of there's a lot of like big Gambles like going running off the edge of the kiff cliff roadrunner style, I mean like we got to get in the mood 01:27:46.120 --> 01:28:02.503 [UNKNOWN]: you know, like a not knowing if we're going to get there and that is, you know, I'm sure we've taken many hours off of many lives in terms of people's stress levels, but but I'm like I'm still close with almost everybody who's ever worked on one of these videos because there's like these bonding experiences of like we made the thing. 01:28:02.603 --> 01:28:02.863 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:28:02.883 --> 01:28:11.005 [UNKNOWN]: What do you think was the strongest bonding experience video, like which one, which one pushed people to sort of, oh man, like that. 01:28:11.885 --> 01:28:35.236 [UNKNOWN]: in some ways it always feels like it's the last one because that's the like the most recent one was was the mirrors the mirrors in the train station and that one's a trip is big big project really fun how many robots are there or I guess maybe there were 30 robot arms total 29 total robots and I mean we counted it as 60 something mirrors although like there are lots of tiny 01:28:41.219 --> 01:28:42.580 [UNKNOWN]: Like that one was mostly about. 01:28:46.432 --> 01:29:11.866 [UNKNOWN]: pre-visiting everything really carefully because once it's because robots just it's very hard to be you know a change it was like was there a lot of safety involved too because I know like an a factory they won't let you within three like you know the bridge of the ones yeah because yeah there's big orange cuckus um we yeah those were there's been four giant cuckus that uh like when you know what there's one moment where they had where there's 01:29:12.246 --> 01:29:13.786 [UNKNOWN]: two mirrors going like this behind me. 01:29:14.186 --> 01:29:20.728 [UNKNOWN]: And I have to give my heel was frail between those mirrors like I would not have a foot, right? 01:29:20.748 --> 01:29:22.368 [UNKNOWN]: We just yeah definitely there. 01:29:22.708 --> 01:29:27.129 [UNKNOWN]: But there was also Kristoff whose job it was to sit there with his stop button. 01:29:27.149 --> 01:29:27.609 [UNKNOWN]: Okay. 01:29:27.769 --> 01:29:30.010 [UNKNOWN]: And it's like so they don't get half way through your foot. 01:29:30.210 --> 01:29:30.550 [UNKNOWN]: Exactly. 01:29:31.050 --> 01:29:31.270 [UNKNOWN]: Right. 01:29:31.650 --> 01:29:35.211 [UNKNOWN]: No and it turns out that Kristoff, he's a perfect example this. 01:29:35.531 --> 01:29:39.972 [UNKNOWN]: The reason he's in robotics is because he saw our video for the one moment and he loved it. 01:29:41.832 --> 01:29:53.740 [UNKNOWN]: Do you think that you, do you have any conceptualization on the potential impact you've had on a generation of people in STEM? 01:29:54.020 --> 01:30:04.808 [UNKNOWN]: Like, do you have you had conversations with people that said that they wanted to do, you know, science and engineering because of like the rubbleberg and just kind of being exposed to that those concepts early on in their life? 01:30:05.048 --> 01:30:28.957 [UNKNOWN]: We have a lot of feedback from teachers, like we have a a website called okay go sandbox.org and it's all lesson plans and and classroom videos that teachers can use to actually teach it's aimed roughly middle school, but it goes younger and older based on our videos and we get a lot of a teacher feedback from those videos and from that site. 01:30:31.293 --> 01:30:49.845 [UNKNOWN]: I do meet a lot of people who anecdotally tell me that stuff and increasingly it's like now they're adults like you know five five and ten years ago you I was meeting high school kids who are like I like I want to robot camp because of you guys and now they're coming out of college and they're like you know Building a eyes that you kill yourself. 01:30:49.905 --> 01:30:55.089 [UNKNOWN]: I feel like you guys almost started the group Goldberg trend because that was like the new thing on the internet. 01:30:55.169 --> 01:30:56.950 [UNKNOWN]: I think the group Goldberg might have done that. 01:30:57.310 --> 01:31:00.952 [UNKNOWN]: No, but like if the translation to the internet. 01:31:00.972 --> 01:31:04.553 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we really lucked out in terms of time. 01:31:04.674 --> 01:31:10.656 [UNKNOWN]: Like all of this stuff, I think when I look at social media now, look at the attention grabbing moments. 01:31:10.716 --> 01:31:12.677 [UNKNOWN]: It's like that is it is a 01:31:14.458 --> 01:31:16.140 [UNKNOWN]: a flooded market, right? 01:31:16.160 --> 01:31:31.978 [UNKNOWN]: Like is it is like you said it's a perfect system of attention grabbing and 20 years ago it was like there was no reason to spend time making a rubbleberg machine in your house or your office or an obnoxious event of where it was, right? 01:31:32.238 --> 01:31:39.400 [UNKNOWN]: So like thinking about how cool that would be and being like we could do that and we have a like there's the sort of framework of this reason was a music video. 01:31:39.500 --> 01:31:40.260 [UNKNOWN]: It was awesome. 01:31:40.660 --> 01:31:47.122 [UNKNOWN]: And now it's just like do it do it just for the attention is already there's a whole economy perfectly like it in for that. 01:31:47.222 --> 01:31:52.063 [UNKNOWN]: Well that was definitely an inspiration to my brother and I because we we set up the whole house, you know awesome. 01:31:52.243 --> 01:31:56.164 [UNKNOWN]: Like Briotrain like marbles and I think yeah all that stuff. 01:31:56.184 --> 01:31:59.545 [UNKNOWN]: Well there's you know what's amazing is of course it's down the stairs to the basement 01:31:59.885 --> 01:32:00.065 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:32:00.165 --> 01:32:09.992 [UNKNOWN]: That is, like, there's, you know, there is a long history of people making those machines, of course, but where it's so funny, you're. 01:32:11.452 --> 01:32:12.133 [UNKNOWN]: way in, right? 01:32:12.153 --> 01:32:13.694 [UNKNOWN]: That they're, yeah, exactly. 01:32:14.174 --> 01:32:15.716 [UNKNOWN]: Where were you exposed to it? 01:32:16.116 --> 01:32:31.549 [UNKNOWN]: There's a pair of fine artists from, from Germany, I think, officially in Vice, who have a famous art film called the, I think it's called The Way Things Go, which is just a giant rugalbring machine. 01:32:32.250 --> 01:32:34.432 [UNKNOWN]: And it was, it's from the 70s. 01:32:34.692 --> 01:32:36.754 [UNKNOWN]: And I think maybe 80s, but I think 70s. 01:32:37.394 --> 01:32:53.067 [UNKNOWN]: And when we went to go play a show at the in the lobby of the Guggenheim ones and in New York, and they were like in the prep call for it, they were all very nice and everything like, but just do this a favorite, you can't play that video on your hair. 01:32:54.608 --> 01:32:55.428 [UNKNOWN]: of the Rube Goldberg video. 01:32:55.448 --> 01:32:58.790 [UNKNOWN]: We're like, well, yeah, it's just wouldn't be okay with our donors. 01:32:59.250 --> 01:33:00.890 [UNKNOWN]: I was like, what are you talking about? 01:33:01.671 --> 01:33:10.514 [UNKNOWN]: In a particular slice of of fine art, our video was such a rip off of of a of a 70s art video. 01:33:12.914 --> 01:33:18.216 [UNKNOWN]: And I remember, and I was like, you recognize they're called Rube Goldberg Machines after a person who lived in the 20s, right? 01:33:18.356 --> 01:33:21.496 [UNKNOWN]: So you're telling me this is like, we stole from Steelers. 01:33:21.536 --> 01:33:34.739 [UNKNOWN]: We'd be like, and I mean, and of course, I love that film, of course, but like, Rube Goldberg Machines are as, like, that's like being like, you can't, I don't know, DeGah had a bunch of ballerinas, so you guys can't ever have. 01:33:34.899 --> 01:33:56.879 [UNKNOWN]: It's like copyright or patenting a nail, like how if I'm going to hold these two pieces of wood, it's literally like take a bunch of trash and build the word contraption out of it, but that is also that is the art world is that it's sort of like it's all about the about the ownership of of novelty in this idea, right, and and having it be, of course, high art that it's novel, right, like I am the. 01:33:58.000 --> 01:34:00.021 [UNKNOWN]: Jackson Pollock does spotter painting. 01:34:00.241 --> 01:34:01.342 [UNKNOWN]: You don't do spotter painting. 01:34:01.602 --> 01:34:01.922 [UNKNOWN]: He does. 01:34:01.942 --> 01:34:03.243 [UNKNOWN]: He can't do that. 01:34:03.263 --> 01:34:05.405 [UNKNOWN]: You got to throw something else at the wall like shit or something. 01:34:05.785 --> 01:34:13.489 [UNKNOWN]: And that, which is why, you know, which was, and they're paying for an hour at least that world is unraveling in a weird way where they're starting to realize it like, 01:34:17.087 --> 01:34:42.867 [UNKNOWN]: visual culture is a very real thing with very real inputs and it was and it was totally dominated by let's say the church or Michelangelo at one point and and and and high art in this sort of contemporary 20th century way had museums and a whole whole whole way of influence in the world but now they're having to respond to the fact that visual culture keeps moving 01:34:44.548 --> 01:35:02.743 [UNKNOWN]: And like, it's a very weird thing because we are now in conversation with a lot of those people again because they're looking at our work from 20 years ago going like, oh, we see that like what happened online has a lot to do with what we did 20 years ago and all of a sudden that starting to seem like history and all of a sudden that starting to seem like an artistic movement. 01:35:09.628 --> 01:35:11.589 [UNKNOWN]: But I look I'm I'm all for it. 01:35:11.709 --> 01:35:24.696 [UNKNOWN]: Like I'm not going to complain about that, but it is also I don't know, it just makes it's like I go back to me as a college kid going like the reason I didn't want to do I didn't want to write an essay about what about what I was drawing. 01:35:24.716 --> 01:35:25.856 [UNKNOWN]: I wanted to draw what I was drawing. 01:35:26.337 --> 01:35:36.222 [UNKNOWN]: And then like and I wanted to make a thing that was that made people feel like like I chose Michael, like Michael Angelo as an example because when I was at like a you know a preteen 01:35:38.643 --> 01:35:59.553 [UNKNOWN]: And I was obsessed with the idea that like a pencil drawing of muscles could make you feel like something was a lot like it was that magic of like how could just lines do this to you right and it's so simple and so beautiful and so timeless and so perfect right and that is why I wanted to paint and draw and everything I wanted to like I wanted to be able to make. 01:36:00.553 --> 01:36:01.393 [UNKNOWN]: The thing, right? 01:36:01.533 --> 01:36:02.154 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:36:02.634 --> 01:36:19.399 [UNKNOWN]: And I took that through a lot of different angles, including some very abstract and very modern ones, before the point where I got to a bunch of teenagers who were going, who felt like they were trying to like, game the system, right? 01:36:19.419 --> 01:36:24.781 [UNKNOWN]: Like, how do I make something more transgressive than you, rather than just how do I make something that moves you? 01:36:24.861 --> 01:36:45.670 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and at that same moment pop music was still really moving me and still does to this day in a way that I was like, well, that's that is emotions and humanity and love and magic in a way that the essay isn't but the reason why we're still talking about Michelangelo or any of these artists is because it is because it is not because the essay but because of the fucking 01:36:46.070 --> 01:36:46.451 [UNKNOWN]: Right. 01:36:46.491 --> 01:36:46.651 [UNKNOWN]: Right. 01:36:46.691 --> 01:36:50.435 [UNKNOWN]: Because the heart and the soul and everything, and so it's all, it's good with me. 01:36:50.475 --> 01:36:56.221 [UNKNOWN]: It's great with me if the art world starts to like revise itself to be like, oh, right. 01:36:56.241 --> 01:37:02.868 [UNKNOWN]: There is a tactile sensational thing that has happened across these decades that is meaningful. 01:37:03.368 --> 01:37:26.863 [UNKNOWN]: and at the same time we're fighting this battle with like what is even what is meaningful even mean when it's been reduced to these these platforms that are that are all just an engine for engagement like and it does like does does are you as moved now when you as your doom scrolling and like is there a way for you to feel the thing that we felt 20 years ago? 01:37:26.983 --> 01:37:28.084 [UNKNOWN]: I mean not really 01:37:29.745 --> 01:37:41.175 [UNKNOWN]: You know, it's why we run open-source the STEM event is it's sort of it's like the thing that we all like is the collaboration and engagement with other people who like to do things. 01:37:41.376 --> 01:37:41.596 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:37:41.756 --> 01:37:50.104 [UNKNOWN]: And you get sort of the most concentrated version of that in real life where you get to, you know, physically see the stuff people have, you know, done and ask some questions about it. 01:37:50.704 --> 01:38:00.108 [UNKNOWN]: But it does make me think about how I got into YouTube, which was, you know, pretty much right at the star, like 2006, but I was also, you know, younger. 01:38:00.528 --> 01:38:01.249 [UNKNOWN]: How did you? 01:38:02.949 --> 01:38:08.631 [UNKNOWN]: Like, what was that like getting into YouTube essentially it was not a thing? 01:38:08.651 --> 01:38:09.451 [UNKNOWN]: Like it wasn't a thing. 01:38:09.471 --> 01:38:13.193 [UNKNOWN]: Like 2006, like the fact that you posted it in 2006 is like YouTube was not a thing. 01:38:13.433 --> 01:38:18.054 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, no, we were contacted by Chad at youtube.com, early. 01:38:18.174 --> 01:38:23.116 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, Chad early wrote, and I'm sure as partner or partners were doing the same thing. 01:38:23.136 --> 01:38:27.518 [UNKNOWN]: It was just like literally like, they'd seen stuff that where did they see your stuff? 01:38:27.598 --> 01:38:29.078 [UNKNOWN]: They saw it on something called iPhone. 01:38:29.218 --> 01:38:30.959 [UNKNOWN]: Okay, so your posts, you guys are posting stuff, 01:38:31.939 --> 01:38:41.476 [UNKNOWN]: Completely not even YouTube wasn't the start right and other people were posting our stuff sometimes like we had a we had made it I mean this is boring or nerdy or whatever to do is 01:38:44.090 --> 01:38:44.931 [UNKNOWN]: I'll try to make it short. 01:38:44.971 --> 01:38:52.058 [UNKNOWN]: We, when I'm when first started, we were invited to be on a TV show in Chicago called Chicago. 01:38:52.138 --> 01:39:04.350 [UNKNOWN]: It was like local cable access TV show where bands could come, like they would have like babysitters bring their kids on and I mean kids in this like bands would play. 01:39:04.910 --> 01:39:06.993 [UNKNOWN]: And but they didn't have a way to record the bands. 01:39:07.073 --> 01:39:18.949 [UNKNOWN]: We didn't know this and we have one song demo and we're like wait, you mean we have to lip sync and we were thought of ourselves as such like a stalwart Like rock band that we weren't gonna lip sync. 01:39:18.989 --> 01:39:20.051 [UNKNOWN]: That's lame, you know? 01:39:21.152 --> 01:39:23.194 [UNKNOWN]: Or if we are going to lip sync, if we have the lip sync, then we'll swing for the fences. 01:39:23.234 --> 01:39:24.956 [UNKNOWN]: We'll do what like, let's make fun of boy bands or go like, let's go all the way. 01:39:24.976 --> 01:39:26.377 [UNKNOWN]: So we came over the totally over the top, ludicrous boy band dance. 01:39:26.398 --> 01:39:26.498 [UNKNOWN]: Nice. 01:39:26.518 --> 01:39:35.907 [UNKNOWN]: That, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, 01:39:36.027 --> 01:39:50.316 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it was, it was, it was crazy and we realized that it made, we started doing it in our live shows because it was, like, in the early all, it's when everybody wanted to be the strokes and like everybody was shuffling their feet and smoking cigarettes and indie rock clubs. 01:39:50.396 --> 01:39:50.657 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:39:50.797 --> 01:39:52.138 [UNKNOWN]: If you broke into dance, 01:39:52.818 --> 01:40:07.497 [UNKNOWN]: There was no, that was way punker than anything you could do that's because people like had to like smile or get the fuck out like do you know it's so it's so in your face so it became our thing to do that to draw to like break into dance at the end of our set. 01:40:08.238 --> 01:40:15.644 [UNKNOWN]: For our second album, we knew we wanted to keep doing this, but couldn't keep on performing the dance from our first album, right? 01:40:15.684 --> 01:40:17.886 [UNKNOWN]: Like that's anathema. 01:40:18.327 --> 01:40:22.110 [UNKNOWN]: And so my sister was a professional ballroom dancer at the time. 01:40:22.550 --> 01:40:23.371 [UNKNOWN]: Trish, she is her name. 01:40:23.651 --> 01:40:31.178 [UNKNOWN]: And she came to help, she came, we were living in LA, and she came to help choreograph a new dance for our new tour. 01:40:31.918 --> 01:40:36.502 [UNKNOWN]: And we've got the thing, it's all done, we're finished, we're ready to go on tour. 01:40:36.882 --> 01:40:50.693 [UNKNOWN]: And a friend of ours said that her friend had just gotten a job working on the new Michelle Gondri video, some big dance affair for some some rapper named Kanye something. 01:40:51.114 --> 01:40:56.318 [UNKNOWN]: And we were like, what are you telling me that Michelle Gondri doesn't think where the dance band? 01:40:58.125 --> 01:41:04.189 [UNKNOWN]: Like that's how in our own bubble we were that we're like, and so we're like, well, okay, put a camera up. 01:41:04.209 --> 01:41:05.629 [UNKNOWN]: We're going to show them our dance. 01:41:05.649 --> 01:41:08.811 [UNKNOWN]: So we shot a clip of us doing our new dance in my backyard. 01:41:09.132 --> 01:41:16.216 [UNKNOWN]: And it turned out so ridiculous that like, we showed it through a couple of our friends because it was so like, it was so stupid. 01:41:16.876 --> 01:41:18.957 [UNKNOWN]: Tim, I mean, it's for the song a million ways. 01:41:19.017 --> 01:41:24.140 [UNKNOWN]: It's still online, but we started giving it out to fans on DVDs at shows, 01:41:25.421 --> 01:41:26.302 [UNKNOWN]: Like a YouTube video. 01:41:26.322 --> 01:41:52.459 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I think on the week and one of them posted it on I film But we saw then then like I remember the guy was running our website at the time or hey just one of my dearest friends in the world Was like do you know that your your video has been downloaded a 300,000 times from that I film that's crazy And that was like right and that was as many we had sold 300,000 of our first out like so it was like Very easy to compare it was like we've done you know 01:41:53.019 --> 01:42:07.762 [UNKNOWN]: four years of touring, and a major label video that was on MTV, and, you know, like opening slots for a million bands and playing every festival in the world, was 300,000 purchased albums, and dancing the backyard for 30 seconds or whatever was 300,000. 01:42:08.082 --> 01:42:14.543 [UNKNOWN]: Now, one of them actually, like, is people paid for, and the other one was just like, yep, so that's crazy engagement. 01:42:22.445 --> 01:42:32.671 [UNKNOWN]: I like there's nobody in 2004 or five or whatever, as there's nobody who the streaming wasn't a thing and like getting a clip onto your computer was already something that most people didn't know how to do. 01:42:33.251 --> 01:42:39.515 [UNKNOWN]: So we didn't think we were making rock videos, but we did think like this is we had been the end of shows. 01:42:39.535 --> 01:42:47.500 [UNKNOWN]: We'd go out, we'd like stand outside with a spiral notebook, getting people's email address is being like so that we could have direct contact. 01:42:47.520 --> 01:42:49.141 [UNKNOWN]: The band, the band members. 01:42:49.421 --> 01:42:58.493 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, well, I mean 23 old kids, like, yes, the band members, but also like, you know, we're opening for You guys are mega hustlers. 01:42:59.054 --> 01:43:02.338 [UNKNOWN]: That sort of, but like, that's still that's not that 01:43:04.303 --> 01:43:09.405 [UNKNOWN]: There isn't like, every band in the world sells their own merch when they first start out, like you can't, who else is going to do it for you? 01:43:09.445 --> 01:43:12.406 [UNKNOWN]: And like, of course you're going to have the notebook on the table. 01:43:12.546 --> 01:43:13.787 [UNKNOWN]: It's probably a strong conversion, too. 01:43:13.807 --> 01:43:16.868 [UNKNOWN]: The band member asking, you know, give me your email, they're like, all right, fine. 01:43:17.068 --> 01:43:17.708 [UNKNOWN]: Right, exactly. 01:43:17.808 --> 01:43:23.651 [UNKNOWN]: And so, but it was, so it was like, we have an email list of, you know, a few hundred thousand people or a few tens of thousands people. 01:43:23.671 --> 01:43:32.394 [UNKNOWN]: I don't know how many it was at the time, but it was like, and now, with this thing, we've reached, like, there's a, that's what these are our people. 01:43:34.335 --> 01:43:36.236 [UNKNOWN]: not necessarily like rockers. 01:43:36.296 --> 01:43:41.119 [UNKNOWN]: They're not the people we thought we were, but like these people found us because they like our weird sense of humor. 01:43:41.680 --> 01:43:47.143 [UNKNOWN]: And so while we go make our next album, let's just record one more of those things for them. 01:43:47.303 --> 01:43:49.264 [UNKNOWN]: And that, that was a, I went to my sister. 01:43:49.284 --> 01:43:52.246 [UNKNOWN]: I was like, we got another dancing thing, but we don't want it to be just dancing again. 01:43:52.846 --> 01:43:55.428 [UNKNOWN]: We got to come up with a dance that is like somehow different. 01:43:55.488 --> 01:43:56.128 [UNKNOWN]: And that was a trip. 01:43:56.148 --> 01:43:56.509 [UNKNOWN]: treadmill. 01:43:57.169 --> 01:43:57.950 [UNKNOWN]: That was the first stop. 01:43:57.990 --> 01:43:58.210 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:43:58.390 --> 01:43:59.070 [UNKNOWN]: Where did that come from? 01:43:59.090 --> 01:44:00.171 [UNKNOWN]: Was that like a childhood thing? 01:44:00.451 --> 01:44:05.075 [UNKNOWN]: No, I think my sister had had imagined as she was at the gym. 01:44:05.116 --> 01:44:08.238 [UNKNOWN]: She'd like to see people, and she was like, we should definitely see people falling off the treadmill. 01:44:08.258 --> 01:44:10.581 [UNKNOWN]: And it was like, I mean, that was filmed that her house. 01:44:10.621 --> 01:44:14.344 [UNKNOWN]: She was teaching ballroom dance out of her out of that ballroom sheet built in her backyard. 01:44:14.524 --> 01:44:21.571 [UNKNOWN]: And our manager, if we had told him we were taking 10 days off of tour to do that, he would have shot us. 01:44:21.731 --> 01:44:23.713 [UNKNOWN]: So it was like, we're just going to go, we got a project. 01:44:23.733 --> 01:44:25.515 [UNKNOWN]: We want to do just block out these weeks. 01:44:26.295 --> 01:44:33.579 [UNKNOWN]: And, you know, the full budget for it was like a few hundred bucks to buy the treadmills and then sell them back. 01:44:33.599 --> 01:44:37.761 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I was going to say like one time I found an exercise bike on the side of the road and dragged it home. 01:44:37.881 --> 01:44:38.081 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:44:38.221 --> 01:44:39.662 [UNKNOWN]: Where did you find eight treadmills? 01:44:40.182 --> 01:44:53.269 [UNKNOWN]: My sister's husband, my brother-in-law, Rue, he found there is kind of a real market in buying expensive equipment from from expensive gyms and selling it to cheaper gyms. 01:44:53.329 --> 01:44:53.629 [UNKNOWN]: Okay. 01:44:53.949 --> 01:45:16.348 [UNKNOWN]: because like the expensive equipment places have to have new stuff all the time and the cheaper gyms just needs good stuff right so so they deal with it like he buy it back from us this this broker would buy it back from us at 80% of the of the of one he sold to us one thank you just somebody else like it was like you take it off my marketplace for two weeks and as long as you don't break it I just got pretty money. 01:45:16.588 --> 01:45:18.889 [UNKNOWN]: No, so it was like literally $100, the only couple hundred dollars. 01:45:19.089 --> 01:45:19.430 [UNKNOWN]: Only couple. 01:45:19.450 --> 01:45:22.451 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, I'm sure we had, I bet we had to put up a few thousand and then got a few thousand. 01:45:22.491 --> 01:45:24.792 [UNKNOWN]: But like, I mean, eight treadmills. 01:45:24.812 --> 01:45:30.535 [UNKNOWN]: It was probably like, you know, each of them probably caused two or three grand and then we just got it back, you know. 01:45:31.636 --> 01:45:39.660 [UNKNOWN]: And like, we just, you know, we were sleeping on the floor at my sister's house and maybe we stayed at a, you know, motel 01:45:44.764 --> 01:45:50.092 [UNKNOWN]: The only job was to make something like, or those, those, crazy. 01:45:50.352 --> 01:45:53.697 [UNKNOWN]: Like, this is, like, this is the way we connect with people. 01:45:53.837 --> 01:45:54.137 [UNKNOWN]: Awesome. 01:45:54.498 --> 01:45:59.024 [UNKNOWN]: It was not, I mean, was a music video, but it was like, not, we, we, we certainly didn't think it would be on, like, 01:45:59.565 --> 01:46:00.926 [UNKNOWN]: music video channels, you know. 01:46:01.546 --> 01:46:04.708 [UNKNOWN]: And during that time, I remember Jorge. 01:46:04.788 --> 01:46:07.729 [UNKNOWN]: Same guy who told us about the other thing was like, you guys need to start using YouTube. 01:46:07.789 --> 01:46:08.429 [UNKNOWN]: It's the future. 01:46:08.569 --> 01:46:09.770 [UNKNOWN]: You guys need to start using YouTube. 01:46:09.790 --> 01:46:13.412 [UNKNOWN]: And I remember we were in San Francisco when I was when I cut mad at him. 01:46:13.432 --> 01:46:15.893 [UNKNOWN]: I was like, please stop telling us to make more stuff. 01:46:16.353 --> 01:46:37.950 [UNKNOWN]: Like we play a show every night and we're trying to write a new record and like I don't care about telling people what my lunch was like I don't like the idea the thing that has become standard of sort of like live streaming ones life in some way was the exact opposite of what I wanted to do and he was like this is the platform this is the thing you need to do is like 01:46:38.310 --> 01:46:48.677 [UNKNOWN]: I can't make more stuff and fucking very much, you know, and when we finally made this video, it wasn't the idea wasn't like, we're gonna put on YouTube, we're like, this will be the thing we release. 01:46:50.029 --> 01:46:56.854 [UNKNOWN]: Right as we go back into the studio, and it'll be like, our mega fans have a new thing to chew on while we're making the new record. 01:46:57.514 --> 01:47:07.801 [UNKNOWN]: And we were playing the show in Moscow, actually, when our guitar tech came up to me and was like, you know that, you know what, like that video you guys made, the treadmill thing? 01:47:08.321 --> 01:47:09.142 [UNKNOWN]: You know what's out, right? 01:47:09.162 --> 01:47:09.782 [UNKNOWN]: I was like, what? 01:47:10.082 --> 01:47:16.406 [UNKNOWN]: And our label, who we had Jonah to, had released it without our knowledge on a platform called stupidvideos.com. 01:47:20.229 --> 01:47:29.356 [UNKNOWN]: And when we went blister than they were like, oh, you should see the numbers you should see the Oh my god, we're like, you don't think there's maybe telegraphing a little something about it You'd be like good videos. 01:47:29.376 --> 01:47:30.797 [UNKNOWN]: Could you did you try them first? 01:47:31.818 --> 01:47:47.029 [UNKNOWN]: So luckily because it was in Russia, we had like, you know, 12 hours before before it like got her got one viral in the States And so they took it down and and we like we like we just put it on a we started a YouTube channel and put it on or whatever whatever 01:47:47.289 --> 01:47:49.010 [UNKNOWN]: That was the first video on the YouTube channel. 01:47:49.030 --> 01:47:54.391 [UNKNOWN]: Well, I'm sure whatever you saw must have been the first one in Jorge, just was like, because we were just like, okay, put it up. 01:47:54.491 --> 01:47:55.091 [UNKNOWN]: Now we put it up. 01:47:55.251 --> 01:47:59.012 [UNKNOWN]: You know, and that started the battle with them about about who. 01:47:59.672 --> 01:48:04.694 [UNKNOWN]: So you did this without their permission, which was like, tactically against, you know, the contract you had with them. 01:48:04.834 --> 01:48:07.795 [UNKNOWN]: And then they saw it and they're like, oh, we made this. 01:48:07.875 --> 01:48:11.536 [UNKNOWN]: And then they posted it online outside of your guys's control. 01:48:11.936 --> 01:48:12.116 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:48:13.017 --> 01:48:16.783 [UNKNOWN]: Well, in fairness, we made it, we can make anything we want. 01:48:16.803 --> 01:48:17.925 [UNKNOWN]: We just can't release it, right? 01:48:18.425 --> 01:48:19.166 [UNKNOWN]: And we showed it to them. 01:48:19.186 --> 01:48:20.248 [UNKNOWN]: We're like, here's our new video. 01:48:20.308 --> 01:48:22.932 [UNKNOWN]: Like, we had already tried to make the most of the back yard dancing video. 01:48:22.952 --> 01:48:26.738 [UNKNOWN]: I remember our friends in the label who were really cool about it. 01:48:26.758 --> 01:48:26.978 [UNKNOWN]: We're like, 01:48:28.177 --> 01:48:32.458 [UNKNOWN]: It was, measureably at some point, the most downloaded music video of all time, right? 01:48:32.498 --> 01:48:35.159 [UNKNOWN]: So they were like, they'd use that as a marketing thing, briefly, right? 01:48:35.179 --> 01:48:41.541 [UNKNOWN]: That was like, there were, there were seven inches of that of a million ways with pictures of us dancing in the backyard. 01:48:41.621 --> 01:48:47.662 [UNKNOWN]: So like, they knew these guys broke the internet before streaming and they were using that. 01:48:47.722 --> 01:48:49.283 [UNKNOWN]: So when we turned in the next one, we were like, 01:48:50.243 --> 01:49:02.210 [UNKNOWN]: We knew that this was that that it was something like they had to know that we couldn't just put it up without them knowing right, but And and we did not expect them to have their own marketing plan for it and they didn't say anything. 01:49:02.530 --> 01:49:02.670 [UNKNOWN]: No. 01:49:03.351 --> 01:49:08.174 [UNKNOWN]: I That actually that just It just arranges me so much of like you can't do this. 01:49:08.194 --> 01:49:11.816 [UNKNOWN]: You're not supposed to do this and then you do it and then they take it and then it's ours stupid videos 01:49:12.356 --> 01:49:12.896 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:49:13.017 --> 01:49:14.358 [UNKNOWN]: And then that doesn't help you. 01:49:14.378 --> 01:49:14.698 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:49:14.858 --> 01:49:19.061 [UNKNOWN]: There's actually, I think at that point, we're probably quite a few other websites that had different names and they picked out one. 01:49:19.101 --> 01:49:19.882 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:49:19.982 --> 01:49:27.628 [UNKNOWN]: Well, I do remember, but again, in fairness to them, like, there was things got like, remember college humor.com was such a big deal. 01:49:27.648 --> 01:49:28.648 [UNKNOWN]: It was like, I had another news call. 01:49:28.688 --> 01:49:30.290 [UNKNOWN]: It was just like a name mistake. 01:49:30.410 --> 01:49:32.952 [UNKNOWN]: And like, and these guys are just chasing numbers. 01:49:32.992 --> 01:49:36.074 [UNKNOWN]: And stupid videos.com is like, was the thing of the of the movie? 01:49:36.094 --> 01:49:40.918 [UNKNOWN]: You know, the hard part of this whole thing was having the like the foresight to make a video like that. 01:49:41.378 --> 01:49:43.668 [UNKNOWN]: and the easiest part is uploading it to a website. 01:49:45.003 --> 01:50:08.251 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's that makes that like that's the kind of stuff that frustrates me to hell and back where it's like Okay, if we want to like work together, can you contribute more than just uploading Give it like pay for it, you know, give the funding to like make these bigger videos because even the second one was the rubbleberg And you had to find the funding through an external organization as well. 01:50:08.391 --> 01:50:14.453 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and it seems like you know Does with the YouTube ad revenue on these videos even pay for the next music video 01:50:14.833 --> 01:50:15.033 [UNKNOWN]: No. 01:50:15.573 --> 01:50:21.235 [UNKNOWN]: So like it's kind of this perpetual fight for you to do your art and at least you have control of it now. 01:50:22.095 --> 01:50:35.359 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and I mean, yeah, what what is and you do it, you plan on doing more Yeah, we like we have so there's another video we'll or two that we want to make for the album we're still sort of the current album. 01:50:35.619 --> 01:50:37.059 [UNKNOWN]: We're obviously working on new music right now. 01:50:37.979 --> 01:50:39.060 [UNKNOWN]: And I mean, I 01:50:40.180 --> 01:50:44.003 [UNKNOWN]: I'm also like, I'm very fascinated to see what world we all live in in five years. 01:50:44.063 --> 01:50:44.424 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:50:44.884 --> 01:50:57.354 [UNKNOWN]: I am kept up at night by, like, it get, I go to like the deepest philosophical place with respect to what art is for if it's so infinitely reproducible. 01:50:57.694 --> 01:51:03.759 [UNKNOWN]: Like, and it's not that I'm the first person thinking this or that we haven't been through other generations of this exact same problem. 01:51:05.638 --> 01:51:20.682 [UNKNOWN]: As an example, I don't, I've tried to tell this to people and it never sticks so sorry for wasting everybody's time because this is not going to work but like for years I have started many demos with a big library of drum loops I have or not loops and so sometimes they're full songs where but I just have like a bunch of drum tracks. 01:51:21.182 --> 01:51:25.187 [UNKNOWN]: And they're never the ones you hear in the eventual song, right? 01:51:25.307 --> 01:51:28.351 [UNKNOWN]: I just, there's something to hang a creative idea off of. 01:51:28.391 --> 01:51:33.577 [UNKNOWN]: It's like, it's, it's to get it from being big, open white space into a feeling, right? 01:51:33.617 --> 01:51:40.064 [UNKNOWN]: And then, and that, and a lot of times after I've started into the song, I'll pull that out, put it something else in or something like, whatever it is, 01:51:40.845 --> 01:51:50.590 [UNKNOWN]: There's nothing in my soul that has ever felt like those, those, those pre-recorded drum tracks are somehow removing any sort of creative input of mine. 01:51:50.650 --> 01:51:52.471 [UNKNOWN]: They're not, they're, they're, they're cloud-seeding, right? 01:51:52.491 --> 01:51:53.372 [UNKNOWN]: It's like little crystals. 01:51:53.392 --> 01:51:59.095 [UNKNOWN]: It's almost like just a metronome keeping time for you to exactly, but I mentioned them with steel or with, yeah. 01:51:59.255 --> 01:52:05.918 [UNKNOWN]: And, and, and that has never struck me as it is never taken any agency away from me in any way. 01:52:06.638 --> 01:52:07.059 [UNKNOWN]: However, 01:52:08.679 --> 01:52:11.181 [UNKNOWN]: I, there is no logical difference between that. 01:52:11.821 --> 01:52:21.807 [UNKNOWN]: The, you know, it's a slippery slope between that and getting an AI to spit out infinite numbers of songs that with literally my voice singing things that I might have sung, right? 01:52:21.847 --> 01:52:22.027 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:52:22.167 --> 01:52:23.948 [UNKNOWN]: And there are people who do this now. 01:52:23.968 --> 01:52:34.654 [UNKNOWN]: And if we wanted to like, to generate more okay, going as like quickly, there's be ways we could do that and then we recorded ourselves if we didn't want to be fake, right? 01:52:37.355 --> 01:52:43.878 [UNKNOWN]: But when you pull back a level, you're sort of like, what does it matter for anyone to listen to these songs or for them to exist in the world at all? 01:52:44.239 --> 01:52:49.802 [UNKNOWN]: Like, if the end user doesn't know the, the, the, and hate and saying user, but if the person at the end of this. 01:52:50.362 --> 01:52:51.923 [UNKNOWN]: They're consuming the product. 01:52:52.143 --> 01:52:52.303 [UNKNOWN]: Right. 01:52:52.323 --> 01:52:52.463 [UNKNOWN]: Like, 01:52:52.943 --> 01:53:02.236 [UNKNOWN]: If the receiver of the art on the other end has no idea whether where it came from the first place, does it matter if it's me or not? 01:53:02.596 --> 01:53:05.620 [UNKNOWN]: Why does anybody make any of this kind of stuff in the first place? 01:53:05.660 --> 01:53:08.023 [UNKNOWN]: And then all I can do is do anything matter, do I? 01:53:09.665 --> 01:53:10.105 [UNKNOWN]: Exactly. 01:53:10.145 --> 01:53:22.730 [UNKNOWN]: And I come back to the sort of like, well, I still really the process of chasing that thing, still it feels really vital to me and really important to my like the hours I'm alive, right? 01:53:22.930 --> 01:53:29.413 [UNKNOWN]: And and so like this is not a great answer to your question, but 01:53:30.553 --> 01:53:51.443 [UNKNOWN]: When I want to try to think about what art will we be making, like what videos do I want to make, it's so, like it has so much to do with the context of what spaces are left in the world that feel like they could genuinely resonate in a vital way and not just feel like I'm I'm feeding the attention to come. 01:53:51.703 --> 01:54:03.145 [UNKNOWN]: I think there will always be people who appreciate the effort that went into doing something, and that's kind of the unmagic of AI is no effort went into it. 01:54:03.805 --> 01:54:16.468 [UNKNOWN]: And so like to me, your guys' videos are people who have spent a sort of a quantifiably large amount of their lives trying to make something. 01:54:17.108 --> 01:54:23.393 [UNKNOWN]: And, and somebody recently kind of, you know, gave me this sort of the verbiage of the idea of a charge to object. 01:54:24.273 --> 01:54:34.821 [UNKNOWN]: And that the idea being something that has meaning and meaning, I think, is where sort of monkey brand is tied to, like, did somebody value it. 01:54:35.301 --> 01:54:40.705 [UNKNOWN]: And so putting time into something implies value in the final result. 01:54:41.485 --> 01:54:46.410 [UNKNOWN]: and AI generally doesn't, no time is put into it. 01:54:46.810 --> 01:54:50.033 [UNKNOWN]: And so there's not really any value or anything special in the final result. 01:54:50.053 --> 01:55:02.485 [UNKNOWN]: Well, it's also what is AI because I think that there are AI videos that people generate that might be fine, like might be boring on their own, but they can still compose them into something that's interesting and creative. 01:55:02.765 --> 01:55:19.075 [UNKNOWN]: But does it have the same charging as like somebody spending, you know, the week choreographing a music video where you're like jumping over treadmill like which one well it's not but there was like this the door brothers on Instagram just made like a full length AI video. 01:55:19.415 --> 01:55:25.219 [UNKNOWN]: But does it actually a special as like you knowing a couple of people went out and like made a short film? 01:55:25.319 --> 01:55:29.122 [UNKNOWN]: No, but it does feel more special than somebody making some Italian brain rot. 01:55:29.582 --> 01:55:31.143 [UNKNOWN]: I'm, you know, kept the sheet of ballerina. 01:55:31.163 --> 01:55:33.925 [UNKNOWN]: Well, if I say, I think that, like, there's no there's talent behind it. 01:55:34.165 --> 01:55:39.809 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, there is talent, but it's not as obvious sort of the level of suffering. 01:55:40.029 --> 01:55:43.452 [UNKNOWN]: Like, what's more interesting, a digital painting or a physical painting? 01:55:44.072 --> 01:55:46.894 [UNKNOWN]: like if you were to pay if you had a physical a physical painting. 01:55:47.134 --> 01:55:49.076 [UNKNOWN]: But you could spend just as long making either. 01:55:49.336 --> 01:55:56.562 [UNKNOWN]: And like I agree, I love this assessment, but I also think it falls apart in practically. 01:55:56.602 --> 01:55:56.822 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:55:57.062 --> 01:55:57.543 [UNKNOWN]: Because like 01:55:58.928 --> 01:56:22.904 [UNKNOWN]: you don't you have no idea how much went into that piece of pop music that's on the radio and especially like I do think that that I mean music's a pretty good example because it feels so easily replicable right now like you the whole idea of something like you want to hear something novel and fresh like that who knows if that's a real person on the other side of the who cares right I do care but it is but it is not 01:56:23.810 --> 01:56:24.750 [UNKNOWN]: But I wouldn't necessarily know. 01:56:25.230 --> 01:56:34.312 [UNKNOWN]: And I think like I would my slight change to your formulation is that when anything is possible, nothing is special. 01:56:34.773 --> 01:56:44.295 [UNKNOWN]: And that doesn't necessarily mean that something because it becomes charged by people putting love and effort into it, people put a lot of love and effort and to really bad music before. 01:56:44.495 --> 01:56:44.855 [UNKNOWN]: Yes. 01:56:45.155 --> 01:56:52.537 [UNKNOWN]: And people have also made really incredible works of art accidentally or even by a process and chance. 01:56:54.517 --> 01:57:22.055 [UNKNOWN]: It's just that all of those conceptions need to be reframed now, and I think that what we are as humans, in terms of our art creation, in terms of most things, but especially our creation, is pattern recognition specialists, we're really good, we are feeling what it was that we grew up with that we love so much and seeing what we want to make out of that. 01:57:23.075 --> 01:57:30.621 [UNKNOWN]: And unfortunately, these machines are just demonstrably and so many orders of magnitude better at that than we are. 01:57:31.141 --> 01:57:35.625 [UNKNOWN]: Even if right now, you're saying, yes, but there's real creativity in there. 01:57:35.705 --> 01:57:44.592 [UNKNOWN]: But I would argue that soon enough, real creativity is like anything you can say that you're creative is itself a pattern. 01:57:44.632 --> 01:57:47.134 [UNKNOWN]: Even if it's like that that like, 01:57:47.754 --> 01:57:50.935 [UNKNOWN]: Nobody could have predicted disco came from punk or punk came from disco, whatever. 01:57:50.995 --> 01:58:13.743 [UNKNOWN]: I totally disagree like you might not be able to predict that leap, but you can predict that at a certain point this has to change and because things can only go on so long and at certain point these are the types of things that change and yeah, these are the types of changes and changes and these are the types of changes and change like there's always going to be a level of pattern that you could reduce out to and that these machines will do better than humans at that. 01:58:14.043 --> 01:58:19.989 [UNKNOWN]: And eventually, in fact, not very long from now, will be outdoing us at even the stuff that we think of as group created. 01:58:20.269 --> 01:58:24.233 [UNKNOWN]: I, yes, I think that the middle will disappear. 01:58:24.949 --> 01:58:38.995 [UNKNOWN]: Like, if the bottom is AI, the middle is work that could be replicated about AI, I think there is a part of the top where, you know, your guys' music videos specifically, they tell a story about the human experience to make it. 01:58:39.395 --> 01:58:42.556 [UNKNOWN]: I think that will have a place much longer. 01:58:42.576 --> 01:58:43.977 [UNKNOWN]: I hope so. 01:58:43.997 --> 01:58:47.618 [UNKNOWN]: Then the thing that does not explicitly tell that story as well. 01:58:47.918 --> 01:58:48.819 [UNKNOWN]: I want that to be right. 01:58:49.240 --> 01:58:59.735 [UNKNOWN]: I worry, of course, that that only matters, that only gets made if the stuff at the bottom in the middle doesn't effectively push the buttons of the algorithms. 01:58:59.775 --> 01:59:00.056 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 01:59:00.376 --> 01:59:00.576 [UNKNOWN]: Right. 01:59:00.616 --> 01:59:04.322 [UNKNOWN]: And like, I think the chances are low to be honest. 01:59:04.702 --> 01:59:24.326 [UNKNOWN]: But, but I'd be much more worried about the disappearance of my creativity or my thinking of my job, if I had any, any job other than the one I had, like all of them, like doctors and lawyers and accountants and computer programmers are even more screwed than artists are. 01:59:24.446 --> 01:59:43.092 [UNKNOWN]: And like it's easy to look at our field and get and freak out because of the sort of magic that is on display right now when when you know fake humans can be made doing maybe that'll free up doctors and lawyers and you know scientists to be artists. 01:59:43.612 --> 01:59:44.093 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, yes. 01:59:44.153 --> 01:59:48.896 [UNKNOWN]: You know, once if the computers are doing a lot after and our computers are doing it. 01:59:48.936 --> 01:59:52.359 [UNKNOWN]: I'm saying like, you know, in the ideal YouTube video, people don't know what it's going to happen. 01:59:52.379 --> 01:59:57.783 [UNKNOWN]: They're going to shove a metal rod up your ass of metal rod down your throat and you're going to turn into a giant derousel double a barrier. 01:59:57.823 --> 01:59:58.484 [UNKNOWN]: I've seen them this way. 01:59:58.544 --> 02:00:00.145 [UNKNOWN]: I've seen them this way. 02:00:00.205 --> 02:00:01.086 [UNKNOWN]: I've seen them this way. 02:00:01.146 --> 02:00:03.287 [UNKNOWN]: You know, it's really, it could be so much worse. 02:00:03.307 --> 02:00:12.535 [UNKNOWN]: I don't think we were entirely honest with you or at least Nigel wasn't when we were talking about being able to share YouTube videos with each other and like we were talking about copyright and royalties. 02:00:13.335 --> 02:00:20.959 [UNKNOWN]: Um, Nigel had somebody basically, he said he'd be fine with somebody stealing his videos almost, uh, you know, shot by shot. 02:00:21.259 --> 02:00:25.321 [UNKNOWN]: But he had somebody actually steal his whole persona and his whole likeness. 02:00:25.841 --> 02:00:28.242 [UNKNOWN]: They made an AI, but Nile Red on YouTube. 02:00:29.594 --> 02:00:30.574 [UNKNOWN]: And he was not a good thing. 02:00:30.614 --> 02:00:35.935 [UNKNOWN]: I said, I was, you said I was okay with people stealing things like word for word. 02:00:35.995 --> 02:00:45.497 [UNKNOWN]: No, no, it's just video ideas just saying that I'll just elaborate all I was saying was that in music, there's like, and this feels like there's more of an established pathway to fight that. 02:00:45.837 --> 02:00:55.099 [UNKNOWN]: Whereas on like YouTube and and media, the only option you have is kind of like, did they repost my actual and now he's getting a fence about it before you're like, yeah, you can use my clips. 02:00:55.139 --> 02:00:56.199 [UNKNOWN]: You can use my videos. 02:00:56.219 --> 02:00:56.759 [UNKNOWN]: That's fine. 02:00:57.039 --> 02:00:58.361 [UNKNOWN]: Why do you copy my ideas? 02:00:58.501 --> 02:01:02.547 [UNKNOWN]: But then when it comes down to copying you, that was interesting. 02:01:05.291 --> 02:01:07.855 [UNKNOWN]: I said, you want to explain that situation. 02:01:08.436 --> 02:01:09.057 [UNKNOWN]: Like, what happened? 02:01:11.648 --> 02:01:13.510 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, it's it's it's it's a while ago. 02:01:13.530 --> 02:01:23.936 [UNKNOWN]: So the details are fuzzy, but basically when I I mean deep fakes came out a while ago, but then somebody came along and started. 02:01:23.956 --> 02:01:28.419 [UNKNOWN]: Okay, if it's not red and then the second channel now blue. 02:01:28.439 --> 02:01:34.923 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, and then a third channel, Nile Green came around and that was the faker. 02:01:34.963 --> 02:01:36.164 [UNKNOWN]: That was the fake one sweet. 02:01:37.330 --> 02:01:53.896 [UNKNOWN]: But what he did was he kind of was in that time where the fake AI was still kind of crappy, but he bridged that gap by actually building like a little set that looked like where I would film. 02:01:54.636 --> 02:01:56.336 [UNKNOWN]: And then he did the AI voice. 02:01:56.536 --> 02:01:58.957 [UNKNOWN]: He got the script to be, you know, very similar. 02:01:59.017 --> 02:02:00.658 [UNKNOWN]: And then he sort of deepfaking the face. 02:02:01.658 --> 02:02:21.205 [UNKNOWN]: And yeah, a lot of people, I thought it was really funny at first until I sort of realizing that people couldn't tell didn't it was like well didn't it was writing the line between like parity and then like identity sort of like in personation like it was it was writing a line really hard and then he did a sponsorship to that's not right. 02:02:22.946 --> 02:02:32.136 [UNKNOWN]: I, I would say that I wasn't, I wasn't concerned at all really because the, at the beginning because the videos had like 2,000 views or 1,000 views. 02:02:32.156 --> 02:02:33.357 [UNKNOWN]: I was like, ha ha, this is funny. 02:02:33.817 --> 02:02:38.942 [UNKNOWN]: Then I woke up one day and the video had, I think, like, it had a few million or more. 02:02:39.423 --> 02:02:43.126 [UNKNOWN]: And then I went to my parents for dinner and my dad brought the video off. 02:02:43.847 --> 02:02:51.629 [UNKNOWN]: And he was like, I saw this funny video and he was at first I thought it was you and I was like, oh, no. 02:02:51.749 --> 02:02:58.991 [UNKNOWN]: And then it started being concerned because I was a concern because I'm like, if this guy just started doing stuff that's makes me look bad. 02:03:00.251 --> 02:03:02.332 [UNKNOWN]: Most people will watch it and just think I did that. 02:03:02.932 --> 02:03:03.072 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:03:03.132 --> 02:03:03.973 [UNKNOWN]: And that's when I was like, 02:03:06.413 --> 02:03:24.343 [UNKNOWN]: I think it's like, it was like a very novel way for someone to use AI because it was like making somebody do something that they wouldn't normally do that you couldn't do with traditional effects and, you know, the enormous, but I mean, I say enormous budget even like TV shows couldn't even do face replacement very well. 02:03:25.203 --> 02:03:37.970 [UNKNOWN]: Um, like you sort of just get to like puppeteer someone else's name and likeness using AI and like that's kind of entertaining for a little bit but then there's like long term repercussions. 02:03:38.590 --> 02:03:38.990 [UNKNOWN]: I don't know. 02:03:39.090 --> 02:03:41.732 [UNKNOWN]: I feel like there's like there's like to me there's several problems. 02:03:43.553 --> 02:03:48.596 [UNKNOWN]: Where A, there's the creativity problem where it's like, if everything, if not, if everything special, nothing special. 02:03:48.696 --> 02:03:48.936 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:03:49.397 --> 02:03:55.541 [UNKNOWN]: But I still feel like the effort, like, or the in-person experience is because you guys still tour. 02:03:56.001 --> 02:03:56.281 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:03:56.601 --> 02:04:04.647 [UNKNOWN]: And like have, have you noticed a sort of like any, you know, correlation between, you know, AI and, like, tour numbers. 02:04:06.431 --> 02:04:13.078 [UNKNOWN]: No, because I like who, how could you, how could you tease out AI from the modern world? 02:04:13.118 --> 02:04:18.563 [UNKNOWN]: You're like certainly the, the, the, the, the, the, the, 02:04:21.882 --> 02:04:43.567 [UNKNOWN]: the music industry's way of thinking and talking about itself over the last 20 years has gone through this like progression of like they can't steal our music to like 360 deals meaning like like the the labels no longer sell the recordings they own the artist and everything that 02:04:43.647 --> 02:05:05.337 [UNKNOWN]: This is like 360 would be like these 60 deals were like the instead of the label signing an artist for the recordings, they would want a cut of everything of the like you like almost become like what was like the actors back in the day, they were like, I don't know, yeah, yeah, like that kind of a thing and then and then eventually into this sort of like 02:05:07.178 --> 02:05:17.162 [UNKNOWN]: And licensing money starts to disappear because the film and TV industry is going through the same death spiral. 02:05:17.242 --> 02:05:18.462 [UNKNOWN]: So there's a lot less money. 02:05:18.822 --> 02:05:23.164 [UNKNOWN]: It used to be that getting your song on a TV commercial was a big, big, six-figure payday. 02:05:27.716 --> 02:05:38.420 [UNKNOWN]: It has all focused more and more and more attention on live shows, but it's saying the way it seems much more defensive rather than sort of like, but at least you can never take away the live shows. 02:05:40.261 --> 02:05:44.663 [UNKNOWN]: And some of that also tracks with my own life just growing up that like that, that 02:05:45.823 --> 02:05:51.567 [UNKNOWN]: On our, when we put out the treadmill video, like I said, we had been, we were at the end of a tour cycle. 02:05:51.607 --> 02:05:58.713 [UNKNOWN]: We had toured for 18 months on an album, like with taking the longest we'd taken off in those 18 months was 10 day one. 02:05:58.733 --> 02:06:05.978 [UNKNOWN]: And we put out the video and the next week, we had 52 more weeks of shows, but 02:06:06.098 --> 02:06:08.159 [UNKNOWN]: because it's like, it's so it blew up fast. 02:06:08.179 --> 02:06:09.420 [UNKNOWN]: It was like holy. 02:06:10.200 --> 02:06:10.480 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:06:10.500 --> 02:06:12.121 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:06:12.141 --> 02:06:19.625 [UNKNOWN]: And that was like for a 27 year old or like that's a best thing you can do if you're rocking and just talk to our tour tour tour tour tour tour, right? 02:06:20.106 --> 02:06:30.051 [UNKNOWN]: And I'm it's certainly destroyed some relationship, then it certainly changed some some some life trajectory, but it wasn't like, but those were the choices to make when you're doing something now. 02:06:30.451 --> 02:06:39.921 [UNKNOWN]: as a bit of your old with two young kids and a home life that I really love, like the last thing I'm going to do is be on tour for 30 something months in a row. 02:06:40.021 --> 02:06:40.481 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:06:40.902 --> 02:06:46.848 [UNKNOWN]: And so yes, we could we could tour more and make more like rather our life would be much more 02:06:48.930 --> 02:07:17.346 [UNKNOWN]: Like our pockets would be deeper if played more shows and there's nobody you can take that away on some level it's also like It feels like a big baits and switch and what like I love rock shows But I but like when I'm when I'm in the studio trying to like make the what I feel like is a platonic ideal of this song like The version of this song It's not like so finely I can get that there and play this for people, you know, it's like this is the this is the artwork I want this type of value to you know and who knows if it ever will 02:07:17.446 --> 02:07:39.181 [UNKNOWN]: I kind of feel like it's almost impossible to plagiarize you guys because of that artistic enthusiasm and the output you have like you like I don't let me since like I feel with with Nile Green it was taking his persona and his voice and the set and kind of the people's familiarity with it, but like I'm trying to imagine like 02:07:40.187 --> 02:07:43.029 [UNKNOWN]: for you guys, for okay, go. 02:07:43.349 --> 02:07:47.293 [UNKNOWN]: For someone to come in and try to pretend to be you, using AI or whatnot. 02:07:47.673 --> 02:07:53.177 [UNKNOWN]: Like whatever video they would make would be probably pretty obviously AI. 02:07:53.337 --> 02:07:54.418 [UNKNOWN]: Right now, for sure. 02:07:54.438 --> 02:08:02.544 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but like, even, like, if there was even an inkling that it was AI, would it not just immediately become uninteresting? 02:08:04.206 --> 02:08:05.887 [UNKNOWN]: I totally depends on the generation, honest. 02:08:06.128 --> 02:08:06.948 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, no. 02:08:07.289 --> 02:08:08.029 [UNKNOWN]: I think there's that. 02:08:08.129 --> 02:08:25.565 [UNKNOWN]: And I also think that is assuming, like, we freeze the sort of world where it is now in a not only technologically in terms of what is capable, but in terms of, like, the categories of universe that each of us have, like, I want to listen to this band, I want to do that. 02:08:26.786 --> 02:08:53.196 [UNKNOWN]: I'm worried less about someone doing a perfect recreation of what we'd make, and more about just the total flood of all music video, everything channels, I think all of the entertainment that there is with a perfect machine of attention grabbing that makes that that makes anyone's art gesture, essentially the like a hobby. 02:08:53.356 --> 02:08:54.937 [UNKNOWN]: the way it's bigger and bigger in your shop. 02:08:54.957 --> 02:09:02.863 [UNKNOWN]: Right, it's just, in the same way that our videos had a very specific thing that nobody else knew how to do 15 years ago. 02:09:03.243 --> 02:09:09.767 [UNKNOWN]: And now, while it's not recreated via social media, the same that same hook of like, what is that? 02:09:09.968 --> 02:09:12.469 [UNKNOWN]: It's been baked into 15 second much hookier. 02:09:12.609 --> 02:09:13.750 [UNKNOWN]: Right, like a perfect. 02:09:13.990 --> 02:09:14.631 [UNKNOWN]: There's no music. 02:09:14.651 --> 02:09:16.412 [UNKNOWN]: There's not like it doesn't, it doesn't 02:09:20.855 --> 02:09:26.203 [UNKNOWN]: and like it is definitely devalued the idea of these art gestures, right? 02:09:26.443 --> 02:09:33.494 [UNKNOWN]: And I assume that that's sea of endless, just content, you know, like flop. 02:09:33.634 --> 02:09:34.095 [UNKNOWN]: It is, 02:09:36.017 --> 02:09:39.621 [UNKNOWN]: Regardless of how good or bad it is, just devalues everything that goes into the sea. 02:09:40.042 --> 02:09:49.852 [UNKNOWN]: Do you think that young people will be less inclined to learn how to play an instrument like guitar because of, yeah, I mean, it's not that they don't want to. 02:09:49.912 --> 02:09:55.378 [UNKNOWN]: It's that maybe there's a little bit of a reward pipeline that gets people to play guitar that doesn't exist anymore. 02:09:55.638 --> 02:10:00.042 [UNKNOWN]: I don't know, right now, I feel like it's gone the other way, which is that it's made people at least social media. 02:10:00.062 --> 02:10:09.370 [UNKNOWN]: I think has made more people into like really wanting to master a particular skill, but everybody does it for the purpose of showing off that they can do it themselves. 02:10:09.671 --> 02:10:13.274 [UNKNOWN]: You know, like almost the opposite, like an anti-A, I kind of gesture like, you know, 02:10:13.354 --> 02:10:34.231 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, or in a weird way it's all like it also doesn't feel like an art gesture because to me it's not like people are going like look I made you a song They're going look I can play this thing right right it's like it's like a lot of personal advertising and yeah, and and and like You know and it's that is obviously like anybody could look at any band and say the same thing. 02:10:34.251 --> 02:10:35.673 [UNKNOWN]: We're just advertising ourselves, but like 02:10:36.373 --> 02:10:41.936 [UNKNOWN]: when I'm making the song, I'm not trying to make a badge of meanness out in their world. 02:10:41.956 --> 02:10:44.417 [UNKNOWN]: I'm trying to make this song, right? 02:10:45.118 --> 02:10:48.239 [UNKNOWN]: And I want that song to do for others what songs have done for me. 02:10:48.720 --> 02:10:56.444 [UNKNOWN]: And I don't get that sense when I watch somebody doing this incredibly virtuosic drum recording going like that. 02:10:56.504 --> 02:10:59.906 [UNKNOWN]: I made this with one mic and it sounds just like it's like, I think it sounds really cool. 02:11:00.486 --> 02:11:03.878 [UNKNOWN]: But it doesn't feel to me like, I'm not going to go listen to that ever again. 02:11:03.898 --> 02:11:06.206 [UNKNOWN]: I don't feel like they're making something that we are. 02:11:07.607 --> 02:11:12.608 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, like they're hardest, they tried their absolute hardest, they push themselves to the maximum to like create this thing. 02:11:12.708 --> 02:11:19.289 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and like it's just an old fashioned way of thinking about it, but it's way where my brain is stuck is like this, I have a sort of constellation I live by, right? 02:11:19.310 --> 02:11:30.512 [UNKNOWN]: Like there's like things I learned when I was a young kid or a teenager, but if it's still guide me, and I'm adding to it all the time, but like your sky is what your sky is, and this is how you know how to navigate the world. 02:11:30.832 --> 02:11:35.553 [UNKNOWN]: I don't feel like it's very, very infrequent that I see something on social media, 02:11:35.933 --> 02:11:41.481 [UNKNOWN]: No matter how ingenious or clever or whatever it is, where I'm like, ooh, this is this is not one of my guiding light, right? 02:11:41.802 --> 02:11:43.404 [UNKNOWN]: It just becomes part of the throughput. 02:11:43.504 --> 02:11:51.496 [UNKNOWN]: And I don't know how many people who are mastering guitar are making things that become somebody else's 02:11:53.437 --> 02:11:53.997 [UNKNOWN]: constellation. 02:11:54.017 --> 02:11:54.898 [UNKNOWN]: Like they want to do it. 02:11:54.978 --> 02:11:55.298 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:11:55.418 --> 02:12:07.122 [UNKNOWN]: And like so I don't and I don't know if AI will be able to make it in that stuff for us or if I suspect what's happening is like that world of those constellations is either getting baked in some kind of way that I can't predict it all. 02:12:07.162 --> 02:12:11.743 [UNKNOWN]: Like the Beatles will always be the Beatles, the 20th century will always be the 20th century, but what's in front? 02:12:12.163 --> 02:12:12.503 [UNKNOWN]: Dawn? 02:12:13.404 --> 02:12:19.166 [UNKNOWN]: Or it's resetting it so entirely that like that, you know, my kids, 02:12:24.268 --> 02:12:30.453 [UNKNOWN]: that moment of connection to various art pieces that makes them feel like that's their path through life. 02:12:30.994 --> 02:12:32.375 [UNKNOWN]: I don't think they'll lose creativity. 02:12:32.395 --> 02:12:36.658 [UNKNOWN]: I don't think they'll lose joy in life, but they will have a utterly different experience. 02:12:36.698 --> 02:12:39.901 [UNKNOWN]: Would you be worried if they told you they wanted to pursue a career in music? 02:12:41.880 --> 02:12:47.464 [UNKNOWN]: No, I mean, what is it a good choice if they want to be rich like terrible choice? 02:12:47.504 --> 02:12:55.430 [UNKNOWN]: Like nobody should, nobody should have been chasing art even 30 years ago as a good career choice. 02:12:55.550 --> 02:12:56.551 [UNKNOWN]: Is it worse now though? 02:12:56.811 --> 02:12:58.092 [UNKNOWN]: Oh yeah definitely. 02:12:58.473 --> 02:13:01.736 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, when we started YouTube, we didn't do it to make money. 02:13:01.776 --> 02:13:03.557 [UNKNOWN]: We just did it to share videos with people. 02:13:04.198 --> 02:13:06.279 [UNKNOWN]: The money making part wasn't even an option. 02:13:06.299 --> 02:13:08.141 [UNKNOWN]: Like we had no idea that that was even a thing. 02:13:08.161 --> 02:13:17.448 [UNKNOWN]: It was like the community on the platform and seeing, I mean, like early YouTube videos, like you guys are, or both Burnham, Casemgi, you know, Dox flame. 02:13:17.468 --> 02:13:19.710 [UNKNOWN]: Like there was this whole community of people that, 02:13:20.450 --> 02:13:23.873 [UNKNOWN]: was like, oh, these are like the people that like to do this thing too. 02:13:23.933 --> 02:13:37.505 [UNKNOWN]: Like I like the community But I also like doing that thing, but like the community itself almost maybe pushes you in a direction to want to try to make videos Where it's like I might not have made videos that that was punk rock for me in DC like DC punk. 02:13:37.525 --> 02:13:40.788 [UNKNOWN]: You into that was like I want these are the people these are my people. 02:13:40.828 --> 02:13:43.310 [UNKNOWN]: I love the things they make and I want to be like them So I'm gonna make yeah 02:13:43.690 --> 02:13:58.096 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, like I think the lonely island was like probably one of the biggest inspirations I had and I was just, you know, like I was like, oh, they did this and these people do this and it's his whole group of people that do this thing like I want to be a part of that and the way to be a part of that was to like exercise these, you know, like skills. 02:13:58.798 --> 02:14:07.325 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and I have, I really don't like, I have no words of wisdom about whether or not that will still exist in five years or what are like, you know, here's something I do know just from an interesting data point. 02:14:07.345 --> 02:14:26.202 [UNKNOWN]: I think it was a, a New York Times article, maybe it was New York, but it was like, there there is very clear data about when your musical receptivity says highest and it's like, I think it's 14 for boys and 15 for girls or 13 and 14 is me, but like the music you listen to at that period will sort of always be the music you listen to. 02:14:26.502 --> 02:14:38.377 [UNKNOWN]: you and you add to it after it's not the only time that's like that's the hype right and it's like a a neurochemical thing that's like dubstep like yeah that's the music that I regret and grew out of it 02:14:39.301 --> 02:14:55.790 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, what's interesting is like I still think back to like music I listened to at that era and some of it is like I'm still like pillars of my existence and some of them like why I've ever liked that right yeah and it's not that it's you don't get a free pass just because somebody heard you when they were 14 you know, but like. 02:14:56.770 --> 02:15:12.852 [UNKNOWN]: That is when our brains are most receptive and and and and wiring the the the the the code of self right like you're like this is the this is who I am and this one going to be and that doesn't I think just apply to sound or songs right like that is. 02:15:13.893 --> 02:15:36.626 [UNKNOWN]: And everybody is going through some version of that of like figuring out what their who they are at that age and in the years surrounding that age and what we feed into like that's why people are freaking out about social media so much right now is that we've finally gotten a few generation you know a few micro generations of people pass that age enough to be like, oh 10 years after people have had Instagram at that age there. 02:15:37.466 --> 02:15:55.678 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and like and I'm thankful that my kids are young enough that like I think we'll get some of the what we have some sense of of what is dangerous in that exactly like they didn't know that you know 10 years ago, so these kids grew up like completely unfiltered social media to keep them off no restrictions my kids. 02:15:55.858 --> 02:15:56.078 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:15:56.258 --> 02:15:57.639 [UNKNOWN]: Oh yeah. 02:15:57.699 --> 02:15:59.300 [UNKNOWN]: I'm a fascist about the screen time in general. 02:15:59.320 --> 02:16:06.983 [UNKNOWN]: Like my I I try to keep my kids away from like our rule is an hour a week. 02:16:07.123 --> 02:16:08.204 [UNKNOWN]: And we it's holy. 02:16:08.364 --> 02:16:09.364 [UNKNOWN]: We usually break it. 02:16:09.424 --> 02:16:11.985 [UNKNOWN]: We usually but like it's but it's but they're seven. 02:16:12.425 --> 02:16:15.287 [UNKNOWN]: Like none of that is like just go on the internet and do whatever you want. 02:16:15.367 --> 02:16:24.411 [UNKNOWN]: And like and that doesn't include I read like I read books to them off of an iPad every day, but like but that's it's a instead of being paper to screen, but it's still just word. 02:16:25.812 --> 02:16:38.241 [UNKNOWN]: And we will have to, that will obviously change as they grow and as we figure out what's safe and what's not, but for the most part, it's just like it's very clear that none of the none of the, 02:16:43.679 --> 02:16:49.382 [UNKNOWN]: neurochemical thrills or joys that you get from it, correspond to the things in real life. 02:16:49.482 --> 02:16:51.283 [UNKNOWN]: Oh yeah, trained us to want that. 02:16:51.443 --> 02:16:51.723 [UNKNOWN]: Yes. 02:16:51.743 --> 02:16:52.143 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:16:52.223 --> 02:16:54.565 [UNKNOWN]: Like, it's not like you're actually rewarding yourself. 02:16:54.605 --> 02:17:00.468 [UNKNOWN]: You're not, you know, eating food or like, you know, making a tool or what you're supposed to need in community. 02:17:00.488 --> 02:17:03.229 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, not, I hate to like not not to shit on this. 02:17:03.289 --> 02:17:09.232 [UNKNOWN]: But like community as like a bunch of of like commenters. 02:17:09.372 --> 02:17:09.612 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:17:09.752 --> 02:17:10.953 [UNKNOWN]: Those, that's not the same thing. 02:17:11.213 --> 02:17:11.493 [UNKNOWN]: Right. 02:17:11.573 --> 02:17:11.753 [UNKNOWN]: Right. 02:17:11.773 --> 02:17:16.316 [UNKNOWN]: Like it is it is a facsimile for a community, but it is not is not a good one. 02:17:16.716 --> 02:17:20.839 [UNKNOWN]: I think that's like like community paired with a sort of like a skill set. 02:17:20.859 --> 02:17:28.904 [UNKNOWN]: Like I think I consider all that's pretty lucky to be in the STEM space because the kind of the social capital is do you make cool things? 02:17:28.964 --> 02:17:29.184 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:17:29.404 --> 02:17:38.947 [UNKNOWN]: And so the lifestyle component that a lot of genres of internet deal with is really not a thing that's celebrated. 02:17:38.967 --> 02:17:47.871 [UNKNOWN]: And so for us like we're encouraged like we have to do cool stuff and then the people that want to engage with the community like the easiest way is to like have cool stuff. 02:17:48.291 --> 02:17:55.493 [UNKNOWN]: And it's opened a lot of doors and you know puts pressure on us when you see something cool like how man like people are doing cool stuff. 02:17:57.694 --> 02:18:03.178 [UNKNOWN]: But you also pivoted as much as you can into events with actual real people. 02:18:03.258 --> 02:18:03.718 [UNKNOWN]: Exactly. 02:18:03.758 --> 02:18:04.139 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:18:04.479 --> 02:18:09.523 [UNKNOWN]: And sort of trying to build that thing that I remember when I was first looking at. 02:18:09.583 --> 02:18:10.483 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, definitely. 02:18:10.723 --> 02:18:17.008 [UNKNOWN]: Because I have this feeling based on how much money that these companies are dumping into, you know, buying all the GPUs and RAM is. 02:18:17.248 --> 02:18:34.327 [UNKNOWN]: Like, do you think the labels would if they could replace all of their actual artists with AI, if it was not, right, I think it's still on it, like, like, and there's no, I don't even mean that as like a slight on like, there's, it's not that they're evil people trying to like steal from artists, blah, blah, it's like, 02:18:35.247 --> 02:18:57.483 [UNKNOWN]: There's an infinite supply of people who want to get to play piano for living and there's a much more limited supply of people who want to figure out how to Get the value out of a whole bunch of piano players and aggregate it in such a way that it is An investment vehicle for other people who want to aggregate aggregations of investments like it's like it's 02:18:58.263 --> 02:19:06.912 [UNKNOWN]: the big money system and it's many people, it's many tunnels down to where artists live. 02:19:07.112 --> 02:19:15.040 [UNKNOWN]: Those tunnels are people, but those are all good people just trying to figure out how to make money from this stuff and sell it to that stuff. 02:19:15.981 --> 02:19:26.677 [UNKNOWN]: And if you could make a label that made people listen to the music and they were happy, and you got rich from it, like those people would do that. 02:19:27.058 --> 02:19:29.281 [UNKNOWN]: And they're not evil, they're just doing business. 02:19:30.503 --> 02:19:31.365 [UNKNOWN]: It would also... 02:19:32.915 --> 02:19:50.995 [UNKNOWN]: eat up a chunk of the of the sort of consumer base for real musician and that i mean that's exactly what all of these like we are all contributing to these platforms that themselves are like individually cannibalizing the art that we love to make yeah but the only but but you also it's like 02:19:52.295 --> 02:19:56.717 [UNKNOWN]: It's, it is, it is the, the, the, the town square, right? 02:19:56.797 --> 02:19:56.917 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:19:56.957 --> 02:20:01.178 [UNKNOWN]: You can't, you can't make your art alone in your room and and have nobody see it. 02:20:01.378 --> 02:20:01.778 [UNKNOWN]: Right. 02:20:02.258 --> 02:20:09.240 [UNKNOWN]: But if the town square also, like in this case, is owned and operates up by like eating your art. 02:20:09.721 --> 02:20:09.941 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:20:10.661 --> 02:20:11.701 [UNKNOWN]: It's a very exciting. 02:20:13.362 --> 02:20:14.442 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, I feel like, 02:20:15.299 --> 02:20:23.510 [UNKNOWN]: I'm just hoping that by the time that happens, I'll be either dead or want to think about it anymore. 02:20:23.530 --> 02:20:27.416 [UNKNOWN]: Or you'll have realized that nothing you made anyways. 02:20:27.996 --> 02:20:30.900 [UNKNOWN]: That, and that that is a freeing 02:20:31.401 --> 02:20:31.641 [UNKNOWN]: thing. 02:20:31.781 --> 02:20:33.562 [UNKNOWN]: It's very, very hard to get yourself there. 02:20:33.582 --> 02:20:49.108 [UNKNOWN]: And I think it's much harder if you're like in your 20s and if you're in your 50s, but because like you're supposed to like you, you want to be like chasing the dream chasing the opportunities, but the truth is that like none of those opportunities were themselves happiness, right? 02:20:49.288 --> 02:20:53.690 [UNKNOWN]: It's like it's the going through the doors to try to find it's the opening the door is fine. 02:20:53.990 --> 02:20:56.251 [UNKNOWN]: getting there and like, look at all that hard work and suffering we did. 02:20:56.291 --> 02:21:01.392 [UNKNOWN]: I've seen in your videos quite frequently your eyes are like the same clothes you're skin like they're very red. 02:21:02.152 --> 02:21:04.693 [UNKNOWN]: And I see that and I'm like, they look fucking tired. 02:21:24.778 --> 02:21:27.239 [UNKNOWN]: takes a lot a lot of calculation to get that right. 02:21:28.580 --> 02:21:39.028 [UNKNOWN]: Also, if you get your calculations of how long the shoot is going to take off by like a tiny bit of her frame, it goes from being like 12 hour days to being 18 hours. 02:21:39.368 --> 02:21:44.272 [UNKNOWN]: And like, and then plus a little like an error here or they're like, there was, I think we went four days. 02:21:44.912 --> 02:21:45.952 [UNKNOWN]: with a total of four hours. 02:21:45.992 --> 02:21:48.493 [UNKNOWN]: I saw some of the printers occasionally, not putting a new one. 02:21:48.633 --> 02:21:49.013 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, yeah. 02:21:49.153 --> 02:21:50.113 [UNKNOWN]: There's there's a lot of it. 02:21:50.193 --> 02:21:53.273 [UNKNOWN]: And I was like, I can't imagine that was by choice. 02:21:53.694 --> 02:21:55.674 [UNKNOWN]: Those actually are also not printing. 02:21:56.054 --> 02:21:58.354 [UNKNOWN]: That's those are each one of the printers. 02:21:58.374 --> 02:21:59.875 [UNKNOWN]: There's preloaded. 02:21:59.915 --> 02:22:05.055 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, they've been modified so that all they are is that they respond to a MIDI command to feed. 02:22:05.215 --> 02:22:06.776 [UNKNOWN]: You know, you should have done what? 02:22:06.856 --> 02:22:10.236 [UNKNOWN]: You should have bound stacks of those and sold them as a coffee table. 02:22:10.256 --> 02:22:12.077 [UNKNOWN]: I believe that was even suggested and tried. 02:22:14.377 --> 02:22:16.941 [UNKNOWN]: Because I feel like, no, they weren't, you know, why? 02:22:17.082 --> 02:22:22.931 [UNKNOWN]: Because the paper company, no, no, they knew. 02:22:23.212 --> 02:22:25.235 [UNKNOWN]: They knew that they would be in trouble for wasting that much paper. 02:22:25.255 --> 02:22:26.637 [UNKNOWN]: So it had to be recycled. 02:22:26.878 --> 02:22:28.260 [UNKNOWN]: Why can't you make books out of it? 02:22:30.293 --> 02:22:31.314 [UNKNOWN]: Uh, I don't know, man. 02:22:31.454 --> 02:22:45.820 [UNKNOWN]: It was just like a people company knew that they would get in trouble if they didn't recycle it because people would watch the video and like know it was them that gave you the paper or was it like just like that like that they didn't want the story to be Look, we wasted a ton of it. 02:22:46.180 --> 02:22:49.761 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you bind it in a book and then I thought maybe it was like a slew of biases. 02:22:49.781 --> 02:22:50.562 [UNKNOWN]: Japanese culture. 02:22:50.582 --> 02:22:51.182 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you're right. 02:22:51.202 --> 02:22:51.642 [UNKNOWN]: Maybe we should. 02:22:52.362 --> 02:22:52.883 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, thank. 02:22:55.863 --> 02:23:07.157 [UNKNOWN]: I thought that video was so cool and like, you know, the most amazing thing is that you got like 500 printers to just work, but knowing that you just basically put a motor in them. 02:23:07.598 --> 02:23:08.018 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:23:08.138 --> 02:23:08.499 [UNKNOWN]: Doesn't. 02:23:09.180 --> 02:23:10.922 [UNKNOWN]: Where the temperatures are, where they modify it. 02:23:11.062 --> 02:23:12.302 [UNKNOWN]: They were they were modified. 02:23:12.322 --> 02:23:35.469 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, they were stock they started stock, but they were, they were, um, they were modified to be the, they literally is just a, a, a, a, a, a, a, like it was done by a, a, like, you know, musical, maybe somebody went and hack every, it was this Japanese guy, I mean, yes, in the behind the scenes, you think you said there's only like one person in the world that could do this job, and then it showed him. 02:23:35.529 --> 02:23:38.810 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, his, his, his company, Ryzen Maddox is like, it's like, 02:23:40.040 --> 02:23:44.722 [UNKNOWN]: There, there, Japanese art collective that does commercials and stuff too. 02:23:44.882 --> 02:23:48.163 [UNKNOWN]: And they are shockingly invented. 02:23:48.183 --> 02:23:51.685 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I saw the whole simulation that he was doing on the computer. 02:23:52.225 --> 02:23:56.126 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, he is a, he's like one of those people who's brains. 02:23:56.226 --> 02:24:05.610 [UNKNOWN]: You just like, just sitting in a room with him and watching him have ideas is like, magic worth being alive for, you know, it's like he's a truly magical man. 02:24:06.342 --> 02:24:07.262 [UNKNOWN]: So what are you working on now? 02:24:07.483 --> 02:24:12.005 [UNKNOWN]: You did a movie, did a movie, did a movie, did a, did another, did another, okay, go album. 02:24:12.205 --> 02:24:14.586 [UNKNOWN]: Right now, okay, goes working on the music. 02:24:15.646 --> 02:24:23.610 [UNKNOWN]: And we have, I hope, if we can, if we can like thread all the logistical needles, we have two more videos, one or two more videos we want to do. 02:24:23.630 --> 02:24:26.351 [UNKNOWN]: And those ideas are like fully fleshed out or like you did. 02:24:26.371 --> 02:24:33.434 [UNKNOWN]: Pretty much, I mean, like the parameters that we will play in are fully fleshed out. 02:24:34.519 --> 02:24:42.886 [UNKNOWN]: in the sense that like we, they're not, there's many months of planning what each scene will be or like how it will progress from this to that. 02:24:42.906 --> 02:24:46.669 [UNKNOWN]: It's a matter of, you know, because like the idea of like the printer wall, yeah. 02:24:47.089 --> 02:24:50.312 [UNKNOWN]: So you kind of have that like fundamental, is it, are they technology oriented? 02:24:50.352 --> 02:24:53.354 [UNKNOWN]: Seems like you guys have definitely moved more technology. 02:24:53.414 --> 02:24:55.536 [UNKNOWN]: They are, they require some technology. 02:24:55.876 --> 02:24:56.997 [UNKNOWN]: I'd say like they're, 02:24:57.998 --> 02:25:17.035 [UNKNOWN]: We are trying to make them as tactile and human as possible, but they're still like the both the ideas I'm thinking about now are ones that like, you know, they're not, they're not human choreography so much as it is, like idea choreography, but, you know, the kind of throughline to our things as you've noted is like seeing the work. 02:25:17.155 --> 02:25:24.181 [UNKNOWN]: I kind of like the endurance, like I think the amalgamate, I mean, I'm so sorry, the voresier experience, I think that the better the 02:25:26.083 --> 02:25:47.233 [UNKNOWN]: But there's something about the sort of human endurance combined with the technology, like I'm trying to, I think, I mean, obviously, the peak peak is probably the Goldberg, right, because they're clearly like, is such a real, I know, I mean, I would never say just like a very relatable, suffering, we're like the viewer. 02:25:47.993 --> 02:25:49.634 [UNKNOWN]: they can imagine. 02:25:49.694 --> 02:25:55.459 [UNKNOWN]: It's like in the realm what they can grasp, but then projecting themselves, I think it's why people watch football because I think they could do it. 02:25:56.040 --> 02:26:01.164 [UNKNOWN]: Like they're like, I could do that and I can imagine how hard it is to do all of those things. 02:26:01.864 --> 02:26:09.831 [UNKNOWN]: And so there's something fun about, you know, that thought process of like basically watching the output of suffering. 02:26:10.444 --> 02:26:20.481 [UNKNOWN]: Well, yeah, or, or, I mean, this is a Jason's that, which is, like, I remember, you know, learning as we made that video. 02:26:21.346 --> 02:26:23.427 [UNKNOWN]: There was, it started out with 12 engineers working on that. 02:26:23.447 --> 02:26:24.387 [UNKNOWN]: We thought it was going to be one engineer. 02:26:24.407 --> 02:26:26.407 [UNKNOWN]: We put up like a, uh, a, it was Goldberg. 02:26:26.447 --> 02:26:30.448 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we were, we were like one, we didn't think it was going to be as big as that. 02:26:30.468 --> 02:26:48.412 [UNKNOWN]: Like, we were like, um, trying to figure out how we, we knew we wanted to make a golden machine that ran time to the song, and that it would be that, like, they, that the types of movement you would do that can actually be timed and repeated, yeah, timed are required as a very specific type of engineering, but other, but like that, it could be, 02:26:49.692 --> 02:26:51.193 [UNKNOWN]: I don't know a person or two, right? 02:26:51.273 --> 02:26:52.533 [UNKNOWN]: Like we could take as long as we want. 02:26:52.694 --> 02:27:03.798 [UNKNOWN]: Like we'll hire, we put up a, a want ad basically, you know, and like, and they were going to synthesize the things too, or did you just bring a pile of shit into the warehouse that you get to go shopping for this stuff? 02:27:04.038 --> 02:27:05.239 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, kind of like, that's fun. 02:27:05.439 --> 02:27:26.149 [UNKNOWN]: Well, so anyways, a group of 12 people, group called Sin Labs, who actually, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, 02:27:30.171 --> 02:27:36.057 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, where they were all the interstitials were these very delicate little rubgolving machines and we walked. 02:27:36.077 --> 02:27:54.135 [UNKNOWN]: We just listened to our whole album twice watching a loop of those videos trying to see what made Which songs made it feel like those actions were dancing which which ones made like sometimes a song a dance song would make it feel like that would make the action Feel really slow and boring by comparison sometimes a dance song would make it feel like those dance 02:27:54.415 --> 02:28:04.506 [UNKNOWN]: right and like that was the only song that felt like oh this is giving the the the the gravitas of the growth of this machine of feel like we know what this is. 02:28:05.327 --> 02:28:15.177 [UNKNOWN]: So we started so we the next step was to like have a big design meeting where everybody just like three odd ideas that we might want to do right and by now like the 12 people bought some friends is probably like 18 or 20 people. 02:28:15.857 --> 02:28:23.179 [UNKNOWN]: By the time we're actually in the space working on it, there's like 30 or 40 people who are sometimes coming sometimes going like just like friends. 02:28:23.459 --> 02:28:23.619 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:28:23.699 --> 02:28:24.039 [UNKNOWN]: Oh yeah. 02:28:24.119 --> 02:28:30.821 [UNKNOWN]: No, like I think they came up with a rule by the end that if you worked less than the 18 hours in a given week, you don't get paid to that week, like it's just for fun. 02:28:32.101 --> 02:28:38.082 [UNKNOWN]: Like otherwise you get this nominal payment being part of the thing because it was just, you know, such a low budget thing. 02:28:38.583 --> 02:28:40.143 [UNKNOWN]: But I would be so on that. 02:28:40.603 --> 02:28:41.003 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, I know. 02:28:41.023 --> 02:28:42.684 [UNKNOWN]: It was like a total nerds snipe. 02:28:42.704 --> 02:28:46.126 [UNKNOWN]: You just brought up everybody and friends that wanted to make something big. 02:28:46.206 --> 02:28:47.547 [UNKNOWN]: It was so, so fun for them. 02:28:47.667 --> 02:28:52.510 [UNKNOWN]: And but we also went on tour and came back and all these people had made things. 02:28:52.690 --> 02:28:53.170 [UNKNOWN]: Like, what about this? 02:28:53.190 --> 02:28:53.590 [UNKNOWN]: What about this? 02:28:53.630 --> 02:28:58.233 [UNKNOWN]: And one thing I did not expect was like, you have to figure out the emotional 02:29:07.458 --> 02:29:30.230 [UNKNOWN]: for one to turn into a machine machine, like people like this guy made this beautiful beautiful contraption with um paper clips basically it was like of all wood and paper clips but it was so clearly it was a gears made of paper clips on stuff but so clearly a machine machine that wasn't like trash and there was no there was no like chance element to it right and of 02:29:35.252 --> 02:29:55.508 [UNKNOWN]: like each you have to know that when this domino falls roughly where it's going to fall really less chaos kind of but if you have a domino on a hinge and you can see the hinge yeah it stops feeling like a rubgolberg machine yeah right like at some point you're watching you're watching the inside of a clock which is interesting to see all those gears work but it's not surprising that they're working it's like NASCAR you're waiting for the crash kind of a little bit 02:29:55.968 --> 02:30:20.574 [UNKNOWN]: And so the opening scene of that is what we were called at the Japanese table because it was like modeled after that Joe Pythagoras switch and everything had to be these like very gentle little thing like will it go will it not go and the first design for these guys had done an incredible job, but there was no delicacy was like everything goes down a ramp that has sides on it and if it goes down a ramp of the size it can't fall off and what let's do. 02:30:25.855 --> 02:30:26.035 [UNKNOWN]: on. 02:30:26.596 --> 02:30:27.637 [UNKNOWN]: That's so true. 02:30:27.697 --> 02:30:33.743 [UNKNOWN]: I noticed that with the rolling ball going down the spiral, I'm like, oh, like, it's going to fall off. 02:30:33.803 --> 02:30:37.266 [UNKNOWN]: And then, and a bowling ball as it turns out is very, very, very predictable, right? 02:30:37.306 --> 02:30:40.709 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but it doesn't feel like it would have been like, he's going to hit a cross for the rules, right? 02:30:40.809 --> 02:30:41.990 [UNKNOWN]: It's a target wiggle. 02:30:42.271 --> 02:30:49.478 [UNKNOWN]: But like, like, like, for instance, it's, so there's just weird in verse, like, when you drop a piano from the ceiling, it lands in the same spot every time. 02:30:49.538 --> 02:30:49.918 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:30:50.058 --> 02:31:10.904 [UNKNOWN]: when you knock over dominoes they do not like so so it actually worked in our favor that like the the little stuff in the beginning was the most chaotic and so you could restart if it failed without having to do the whole damn thing yeah which was just good like we would definitely do you have people with stop buttons like basically a stick to jam? 02:31:10.964 --> 02:31:11.985 [UNKNOWN]: Oh yeah she did yeah. 02:31:12.745 --> 02:31:14.226 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, there was stops all along. 02:31:14.306 --> 02:31:16.107 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and there were re-start to the music. 02:31:16.187 --> 02:31:20.229 [UNKNOWN]: So what happened to keep everything in time with the music so that our lip syncing is in time with it. 02:31:20.810 --> 02:31:25.292 [UNKNOWN]: Because we can only, you know, like you have a margin of error for how this thing is going to work. 02:31:25.312 --> 02:31:25.653 [UNKNOWN]: Timewise. 02:31:25.833 --> 02:31:26.053 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:31:26.133 --> 02:31:30.335 [UNKNOWN]: Every 20 seconds or so that there's somebody who's restarted to song and sing. 02:31:30.816 --> 02:31:33.737 [UNKNOWN]: So that afterwards we could just very speed the entire thing just a hair. 02:31:33.757 --> 02:31:35.318 [UNKNOWN]: You get a nice and song. 02:31:35.338 --> 02:31:39.181 [UNKNOWN]: Because otherwise, like by the time you get to the end, the lip sync is way off from the song. 02:31:40.067 --> 02:31:45.271 [UNKNOWN]: How did you do, uh, I was looking, I went through the, the, the four second one. 02:31:45.371 --> 02:31:49.334 [UNKNOWN]: I like the mouse trap, part two of the flags out in that group, Goldberg machine. 02:31:49.414 --> 02:31:51.155 [UNKNOWN]: Very whimsical that you entire video. 02:31:51.335 --> 02:31:52.076 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you, thank you guys. 02:31:52.176 --> 02:31:54.517 [UNKNOWN]: The, the, I can only, I'm sure I'm the whole video take. 02:31:55.298 --> 02:31:56.739 [UNKNOWN]: How much, how much, how much time? 02:31:56.779 --> 02:32:05.445 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, from like the moment, we sent that email to, it was in the can probably, like five or six months, but the actual build in the space. 02:32:05.525 --> 02:32:09.068 [UNKNOWN]: I think we had, I think we had that space for like four to six weeks, maybe. 02:32:09.448 --> 02:32:14.111 [UNKNOWN]: and really like the most of that was very loosely slowly moving. 02:32:14.171 --> 02:32:20.114 [UNKNOWN]: I did a lot like the actual build was probably about two weeks in the in the high speed video. 02:32:21.335 --> 02:32:22.755 [UNKNOWN]: How did that lip syncing work? 02:32:22.775 --> 02:32:23.856 [UNKNOWN]: Because there's a little bit of lip syncing. 02:32:23.876 --> 02:32:26.017 [UNKNOWN]: You have like the crank wheels and like the the book. 02:32:26.217 --> 02:32:26.458 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:32:26.758 --> 02:32:27.878 [UNKNOWN]: Like how the fuck? 02:32:29.688 --> 02:32:36.210 [UNKNOWN]: You just need it to be consistent, like basically, um, okay. 02:32:36.230 --> 02:32:47.733 [UNKNOWN]: So this is for the video, the one moment, which is, uh, it's like, you know, a few hundred events happen in the space of a, like the robot arm just is like ripping and there's like high speed camera, then it gets slowed down well, like a hundred X. 02:32:47.913 --> 02:33:02.725 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so each component, like I went into that again, sort of stupidly be just being like slow motion is cool, like we'll make stuff in slow mode, nothing about like the slow motion speed of water droplets falling is very, very different than the slow motion speed of a bullet flying. 02:33:02.745 --> 02:33:15.775 [UNKNOWN]: You know, like like bullets are way faster than gravity, you know, and so each section of that the main planning for that was a giant spreadsheet of like this trick has to happen at this frame right this trick has to happen this frame and literally every beat. 02:33:16.315 --> 02:33:39.645 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, so you had to match what the phenomenon was to how fast the camera was filming so that you weren't like over under doing so I think there's 7 camera speed and then within those sometimes very like if we were felt like let's say we're filming at 2,000 frames a second for this for the slowest part you might actually play that back it effectively 500 frames a second for the two parts on other side. 02:33:40.686 --> 02:33:48.334 [UNKNOWN]: But what that means is that when it comes to lip syncs, so in the beginning, Tim is holding a big flipbook with phone book based exactly like that. 02:33:48.835 --> 02:33:50.256 [UNKNOWN]: He just forced that though. 02:33:50.516 --> 02:33:53.760 [UNKNOWN]: There's the powder bombs going off in sync to the music. 02:33:53.780 --> 02:33:53.980 [UNKNOWN]: Yes. 02:33:54.140 --> 02:33:56.242 [UNKNOWN]: So how the fuck does he start? 02:33:56.643 --> 02:33:59.406 [UNKNOWN]: He just has to start within a tenth of a second of reality. 02:34:00.841 --> 02:34:03.184 [UNKNOWN]: A tenth of a second sounds short, but it's not. 02:34:03.364 --> 02:34:07.449 [UNKNOWN]: Like if you're, if your basis were playing a tenth of a second behind all the time, you would feel it. 02:34:07.529 --> 02:34:11.554 [UNKNOWN]: But yes, the like, it's like flipping a book is articulate. 02:34:11.954 --> 02:34:18.582 [UNKNOWN]: Yes, he has to be pretty fat, he has to be like, but what happened was that that section of the frame, like where the flip is happening? 02:34:21.525 --> 02:34:28.509 [UNKNOWN]: Like we just have to we had to vary speed the the center of that theory you could you could sort of like composite a little bit. 02:34:28.689 --> 02:34:37.794 [UNKNOWN]: I think I think we that our rule of thumb was 2% which is like things start to feel wrong and I and maybe in slow mo you have a little bit more given that. 02:34:37.914 --> 02:34:41.275 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, because it was like the the things going off around him have to match up with the song. 02:34:41.636 --> 02:34:46.098 [UNKNOWN]: But if they're three frames early, they still feel like they're on beat is you know, I mean like yeah. 02:34:46.258 --> 02:34:53.582 [UNKNOWN]: If they were all three frames early, bad, but if you have it, like, so it was just a sort of a shift between the, and the, the lip sync moment. 02:34:53.602 --> 02:34:57.003 [UNKNOWN]: There's very rarely lip sync moments where other stuff has happened in the same time. 02:34:57.103 --> 02:35:01.145 [UNKNOWN]: So if you have to take that section and go, it's, it's not at 500 frames a second. 02:35:01.205 --> 02:35:01.986 [UNKNOWN]: It's at 482 frames a second. 02:35:02.006 --> 02:35:02.206 [UNKNOWN]: Right. 02:35:02.306 --> 02:35:03.766 [UNKNOWN]: I just thought it's emotional. 02:35:03.786 --> 02:35:04.287 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 02:35:04.607 --> 02:35:10.790 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, honestly, I think that trying, like getting all of that perfect without any spongy, like any springing would be, 02:35:11.991 --> 02:35:31.093 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, it's astoundingly fast and you can't always tell, like there are parts like there's a place where I'm hitting the face with water balloons and behind me, there's water balloons being popped in sequence and those ones are they're being popped with a just an electrical jar rocket motor net or something no it's just it's like literally the wire heats up enough to 02:35:31.756 --> 02:35:32.757 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, just pops it up. 02:35:32.777 --> 02:35:33.037 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:35:33.397 --> 02:35:44.923 [UNKNOWN]: So it's like a little wire that's taped to each other and they just watching them go at whatever that triggered device believes to be 16th notes at that moment. 02:35:46.064 --> 02:35:51.166 [UNKNOWN]: If you line them up, you're like, oh yeah, they're going with the song, but it's like they mostly just feel like it's like so much noise. 02:35:51.186 --> 02:35:51.727 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:35:51.767 --> 02:35:52.087 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:35:52.287 --> 02:35:58.110 [UNKNOWN]: And it's amazing when when that what does and doesn't line up that way, like you just can't always guess in advance. 02:35:58.652 --> 02:36:10.680 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I think the one the the video the perspective video that one I watching I'm like there is so much stuff happening That like I was like I almost like I had to watch it like four times. 02:36:10.700 --> 02:36:16.824 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, the optical illusion one was like it was like like an overwhelming experience trying to like catch up 02:36:18.845 --> 02:36:32.773 [UNKNOWN]: That one's a fun one was a fun one to make and a challenging one mostly because all of those moments exist in only one like they're all exactly one conversation kind of like, you know, online. 02:36:32.793 --> 02:36:40.397 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so all of the joy and and a pain of it is in the arriving to and leaving that spot. 02:36:40.597 --> 02:37:04.569 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but so it's not like most of our videos, at least at that point that we had ever done, we're like about something we are doing in the room around us all this but like this one was like You're moving spot this spot and you have these like you have to hit these cameras to hit these moments at these times and it's it's like once you've set up the bus system, the bus just goes to saw yeah and you have to like try to keep up with it and sing like but it was 02:37:06.520 --> 02:37:11.162 [UNKNOWN]: Getting that to feel not still or stale was the difficulty. 02:37:11.202 --> 02:37:26.669 [UNKNOWN]: Like, how do you get, how are we going to plan, like, how do you make a path through this so that every 12 or 15 seconds you're having another like, oh, like it's, and it's not just sort of like, yeah, next, next, next, you know. 02:37:27.109 --> 02:37:30.651 [UNKNOWN]: So how would you like rate the complexity of your upcoming project? 02:37:32.191 --> 02:37:33.512 [UNKNOWN]: The next complicated less complicated. 02:37:35.196 --> 02:37:36.597 [UNKNOWN]: Mmm, it's more. 02:37:36.677 --> 02:37:38.538 [UNKNOWN]: You say your same company. 02:37:38.658 --> 02:37:39.419 [UNKNOWN]: I don't hate myself. 02:37:39.599 --> 02:37:43.662 [UNKNOWN]: I, it's all, like, it's just about whether or not it will feel fun to chase. 02:37:43.802 --> 02:37:53.789 [UNKNOWN]: You know, like, um, uh, I'm the next, the next one that I hope we get to do is is very complex, very tactile, very physical. 02:37:54.349 --> 02:37:58.652 [UNKNOWN]: And, um, I'm, I think it'll be very, very fun. 02:37:59.173 --> 02:38:00.654 [UNKNOWN]: If you guys have done like a Kickstarter or something, 02:38:03.248 --> 02:38:13.815 [UNKNOWN]: We have done some kind of a little bit, like we did, we did a crowdfunding thing on two albums ago that were sort of like a crowdfunding for the album. 02:38:14.475 --> 02:38:26.603 [UNKNOWN]: On our most recent, we had a sort of band club group that bought into the entire album cycles, like the years' worth of stuff, which helped raise money and advance to be able to make the videos. 02:38:31.247 --> 02:38:36.331 [UNKNOWN]: I'm usually not allowed to give exact numbers because of brand partners, don't worry about that, but there's like 02:38:37.830 --> 02:38:39.710 [UNKNOWN]: They're all at least six figures of this point. 02:38:39.750 --> 02:38:40.171 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:38:40.831 --> 02:38:41.631 [UNKNOWN]: And some have been more. 02:38:41.871 --> 02:38:51.353 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, it's like, I think anyone looking at that and seeing the thing you cost less than that is create, like it's any enormous cost to set stuff up like that. 02:38:52.233 --> 02:38:52.513 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:38:52.693 --> 02:38:53.674 [UNKNOWN]: And yes. 02:38:53.814 --> 02:38:59.495 [UNKNOWN]: And like, we get great people doing great work. 02:38:59.935 --> 02:39:01.215 [UNKNOWN]: And they're doing it for the love of doing it. 02:39:01.275 --> 02:39:05.296 [UNKNOWN]: But also at that level, you like, even people doing it 02:39:08.658 --> 02:39:12.621 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, like all the pyro people and whatnot and robot. 02:39:12.801 --> 02:39:20.028 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, just like, like the production designer for our last work for the one with the videos. 02:39:20.468 --> 02:39:21.209 [UNKNOWN]: I'm sorry. 02:39:21.429 --> 02:39:23.611 [UNKNOWN]: The one with the robots and mirrors, for instance. 02:39:24.552 --> 02:39:27.734 [UNKNOWN]: Like, there are, I know his name is Will Files. 02:39:27.934 --> 02:39:29.296 [UNKNOWN]: I'm sorry, Will Field. 02:39:29.556 --> 02:39:31.918 [UNKNOWN]: Will Files is a, I keep mixing up their names. 02:39:31.938 --> 02:39:33.439 [UNKNOWN]: He's another genius of Miles Love. 02:39:33.699 --> 02:39:34.240 [UNKNOWN]: I love you, Will. 02:39:34.580 --> 02:39:43.827 [UNKNOWN]: Um, um, uh, has made, he prevised every mirror in the entire thing, um, months and event. 02:39:44.208 --> 02:39:45.669 [UNKNOWN]: Like complete digital recreation. 02:39:45.689 --> 02:39:48.371 [UNKNOWN]: Yes, with including like six levels of reflection. 02:39:48.391 --> 02:39:48.471 [UNKNOWN]: Wow. 02:39:48.971 --> 02:40:03.123 [UNKNOWN]: You know, and not that we'd still didn't change stuff on set here and there, and not that we weren't, but like his the level of of passion and expertise that he needs for both of those is so it's so he had to do so much work for that that whatever we paid him wasn't 02:40:03.603 --> 02:40:21.042 [UNKNOWN]: You know, and he's synthesizing the whole camera track, the mirror coming and like who came up with like the the hole in the mirror like is that I mean that's a like there were there were three of us directing and then and then we'll doing doing fabrication so I can't remember who's who's idea that specific moment. 02:40:21.362 --> 02:40:34.753 [UNKNOWN]: Like, oh, rather, I can say, I remember the testing, the play that we did, like I had a iPhone behind a little mirror, right, and doing tests like that. 02:40:35.054 --> 02:40:43.521 [UNKNOWN]: How we got a, a sinny lens to get close into a pair of doors was via a 3D printed device that will came up with. 02:40:43.701 --> 02:40:43.901 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:40:44.021 --> 02:40:50.926 [UNKNOWN]: And how those doors closed around it might have been anyone like you came up with the idea to even like, to have the camera go into them. 02:40:50.946 --> 02:40:54.029 [UNKNOWN]: Because it's like every single step, like someone just says, like, what if we do this? 02:40:54.049 --> 02:40:55.990 [UNKNOWN]: What if you threw like, you know, the kaleidoscope? 02:40:56.050 --> 02:40:56.471 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:40:56.491 --> 02:40:58.152 [UNKNOWN]: Like, like, dropping all the balls. 02:40:58.452 --> 02:41:00.133 [UNKNOWN]: What if you put a mirror suit on? 02:41:00.173 --> 02:41:01.795 [UNKNOWN]: Like, this is like so much individual. 02:41:01.855 --> 02:41:06.878 [UNKNOWN]: What we do for that is like, like, with like, first of all, wasn't about, um, robots who's about mirror. 02:41:06.979 --> 02:41:07.099 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:41:07.119 --> 02:41:10.061 [UNKNOWN]: It's like, what it's like, that the magic there is is like, 02:41:13.083 --> 02:41:19.086 [UNKNOWN]: things that you could not only do, but humans could, we could only set up one of them. 02:41:19.106 --> 02:41:34.295 [UNKNOWN]: And so it was a week of just like we got a stack of mirrors and the two other directors and I Miguel and Aaron and I and two band members in an office space in LA just played with mirrors and and we go like what if like we sort of get effects we liked. 02:41:34.975 --> 02:41:44.886 [UNKNOWN]: And this could go this part of the song, this could go this part of the song, and by the end of that week we had little sequences It was like we could go from this this feeling to that feeling and imagine what they would be doing. 02:41:46.702 --> 02:41:56.364 [UNKNOWN]: Then, two months later, we went to Barcelona where there was a show room for that robotics company, universal robots, and they let us borrow three of those. 02:41:56.384 --> 02:41:57.084 [UNKNOWN]: Those are small robots. 02:41:57.104 --> 02:41:57.965 [UNKNOWN]: Those are small, yeah. 02:41:58.345 --> 02:42:04.926 [UNKNOWN]: And they let us borrow their robots to test to see do these effects, feel the same on robots, and what else could be opened up at it. 02:42:05.286 --> 02:42:12.328 [UNKNOWN]: And during that is when I had like, when I was playing with the iPhone lens through the back of a... 02:42:13.148 --> 02:42:35.526 [UNKNOWN]: So we're still, and like, I remember that was one by the time we got to that second testing, it was like, if we're going to do an infinity room, sort of, you know, Kusama style infinity room, but it moves, then what we need is, give me like, like, 10 mirrors that are six inch squares, and we'll hinge them with tape, and like, and they have that little holes in them, so I can put the camera in, and then, 02:42:35.926 --> 02:42:37.428 [UNKNOWN]: and we'll test out the various things. 02:42:37.728 --> 02:42:46.098 [UNKNOWN]: And so I had a library of, okay, this is what it looks like if you go from a pentagon to a square, this is what it looks like the whole triangle to a rhombus. 02:42:46.198 --> 02:42:54.168 [UNKNOWN]: You know, and like, and turns out, like the effects of those things are not wildly different, like you could, we picked our favorite three, and that was the choreography. 02:42:54.448 --> 02:43:21.759 [UNKNOWN]: You know, but like we knew that like this this moment of the song is going to be like it starts with this sort of robot arms themselves dancing then we get into this like this trick then we get into that like you sort of get your various fix line to the mute the emotional beat in the song that feels right for it and then you're fighting with reality like how do you get the camera over the top of this thing fast enough to get into that that little harness that you've made. 02:43:22.159 --> 02:43:38.732 [UNKNOWN]: And so to be solving the question of the harness three weeks away from shooting, means you have to actually know that you want to wear that is in the song and roughly how many feet you've traveled since the beginning of it so that you can have found the right location two months before that. 02:43:39.052 --> 02:44:02.699 [UNKNOWN]: And that is why we'll we'll feel this like you can't you can't skimp on your will feel to the world because he needs to from day one have seen this idea go oh my god that's amazing and be pre-vising at his at his home for you to know what types of of what questions are you even asking when the when the location is persons that's like I could do this for you at a train station with that work yeah you got to be like well this is how many feet we need 02:44:07.760 --> 02:44:08.080 [UNKNOWN]: is big. 02:44:08.380 --> 02:44:08.600 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:44:08.880 --> 02:44:09.560 [UNKNOWN]: That's a lot. 02:44:09.600 --> 02:44:14.721 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, that's, I think that's why the videos are so fun is like, you know, how much work doesn't it? 02:44:14.821 --> 02:44:15.842 [UNKNOWN]: And it's so fun to do. 02:44:15.862 --> 02:44:28.864 [UNKNOWN]: Like, this, I do think that if I was just writing songs every day, I go, I go into a bubble of sort of like, of of of self hatred because of just about whether this song is good and that song is, it's just very insular. 02:44:29.184 --> 02:44:33.745 [UNKNOWN]: And when I love being in this big group of people trying to solve this problem that all of us feel is like, a little big of a 02:44:33.885 --> 02:44:34.666 [UNKNOWN]: we can get our hands on. 02:44:34.786 --> 02:44:35.006 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:44:35.126 --> 02:44:38.689 [UNKNOWN]: And again, if every day we're that, I think it would probably just say to die. 02:44:39.089 --> 02:44:43.733 [UNKNOWN]: Do you think that like, or when you're writing songs is every song you're writing? 02:44:43.854 --> 02:44:46.336 [UNKNOWN]: If I have to go to the bathroom, go on with that number one or number two. 02:44:48.257 --> 02:44:49.018 [UNKNOWN]: Do you have fun? 02:44:49.158 --> 02:44:54.342 [UNKNOWN]: Are you writing songs with the intention of like all of them could be a music video or 02:44:55.323 --> 02:44:56.523 [UNKNOWN]: You're just writing songs to make good songs. 02:44:56.543 --> 02:45:02.505 [UNKNOWN]: They're just writing songs, and then after the back, you've maybe, like, like, uh, this would be a good one, or yeah. 02:45:02.985 --> 02:45:05.005 [UNKNOWN]: Or you pair it to an idea, like you have more of an idea. 02:45:05.025 --> 02:45:05.986 [UNKNOWN]: Some of both, some of both. 02:45:06.046 --> 02:45:11.587 [UNKNOWN]: It's like, there's, there are ideas that have sat around for longer than, like, the idea we're working on now. 02:45:12.047 --> 02:45:22.409 [UNKNOWN]: I, um, I have, I have tried to pin to other songs in the past, and it changes so dramatically depending on what song it is because the, the whole emotional point of it is different. 02:45:25.550 --> 02:45:28.912 [UNKNOWN]: Sometimes an idea will sort of sit around and wait for the right song. 02:45:29.232 --> 02:45:31.213 [UNKNOWN]: Sometimes a song just demands a specific idea. 02:45:31.233 --> 02:45:36.375 [UNKNOWN]: Like the one moment was kind of like the song is about one moment to change everything. 02:45:36.395 --> 02:45:37.896 [UNKNOWN]: Obviously we have to film this in one moment. 02:45:37.916 --> 02:45:39.077 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:45:40.057 --> 02:45:54.484 [UNKNOWN]: But there's never been a time that I can think of where we're actually when we're writing trying to like The song that is trying to reverse engineer something or like back into the idea of a preexisting video or any any video. 02:45:54.784 --> 02:46:09.191 [UNKNOWN]: Like it's really it's in a lot of ways make writing the songs a lot harder than the videos because there's there's a million other people just like me sitting at in their home studio writing songs too. 02:46:09.511 --> 02:46:21.457 [UNKNOWN]: And I mean like like every nook and cranny of this has been has been explored by so many people and you're trying to find the one way not not that I'm competing with them but just like 02:46:22.882 --> 02:46:37.477 [UNKNOWN]: the finding that that spark of honesty and truth and everything without without resorting to any novelty or any like technical, but what if we can't but just finding the moment where it resonates is like, uh, that's hard enough. 02:46:37.517 --> 02:46:40.200 [UNKNOWN]: You certainly not thinking like, are we going to rob us with this? 02:46:40.632 --> 02:46:42.914 [UNKNOWN]: So what led to trying to make a movie? 02:46:43.735 --> 02:46:45.116 [UNKNOWN]: Like, where did the ambition come from? 02:46:45.316 --> 02:46:52.582 [UNKNOWN]: It was sort of the obvious next step from all the direct, like, you know, I've been directing music videos for years now. 02:46:52.862 --> 02:47:00.529 [UNKNOWN]: And my wife is a screenwriter and has also been, you know, has dealt with a lot of, has been sort of director adjacent for a lot of stuff. 02:47:00.589 --> 02:47:03.491 [UNKNOWN]: It was sort of her next step was directing, my next step was directing. 02:47:04.172 --> 02:47:04.452 [UNKNOWN]: We had, 02:47:06.914 --> 02:47:17.640 [UNKNOWN]: young babies and and it was sort of like your career means you go off to film sets all the time, my career means I go off the tour all the time or we could just like just do this together. 02:47:17.660 --> 02:47:21.383 [UNKNOWN]: So he directed a film together and it was incredibly difficult. 02:47:21.443 --> 02:47:25.285 [UNKNOWN]: It was so rewarding in so many ways, but it's not always fun. 02:47:25.365 --> 02:47:27.166 [UNKNOWN]: What's sort of the part you didn't expect? 02:47:36.510 --> 02:47:49.195 [UNKNOWN]: Well, modularized the creative process that I'm used to having the creative discussion we're just talking about with respect to, um, 02:47:51.836 --> 02:48:07.208 [UNKNOWN]: The robots and mirrors and where are those going to go and like how is all going to work and and trying to figure out how you're going to see the lens into the into the doorway and whether you need the door and all that kind of stuff I'm used to being part of all of those things and trying to like. 02:48:08.793 --> 02:48:09.713 [UNKNOWN]: game it out and figured out. 02:48:09.934 --> 02:48:12.475 [UNKNOWN]: And improvising along the way. 02:48:12.575 --> 02:48:17.116 [UNKNOWN]: And a film set, you have, you know, three months of prep and then three months of shooting. 02:48:17.197 --> 02:48:20.278 [UNKNOWN]: And the day that you're shooting, you just have to know exactly what you're doing. 02:48:20.318 --> 02:48:21.959 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and it had to be prepped many weeks ago. 02:48:22.439 --> 02:48:25.480 [UNKNOWN]: And like, I was just surprised at how much of it was sort of like, 02:48:26.890 --> 02:48:33.173 [UNKNOWN]: that you need to articulate a vision to people who are very, very, very good at making that vision, but that's not you, right. 02:48:33.233 --> 02:48:36.054 [UNKNOWN]: So it's like it becomes less of you're not making a thing. 02:48:36.074 --> 02:48:39.015 [UNKNOWN]: You have to communicate the thing you want to make and that's like a new skill. 02:48:39.035 --> 02:48:47.439 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and really for them to be good at their creative work, what you're doing is saying like this is what happens in this scene and I wanted to look and feel like this and this is how we're doing it. 02:48:47.479 --> 02:48:48.139 [UNKNOWN]: This is why. 02:48:48.519 --> 02:48:52.101 [UNKNOWN]: And then they have to take that and go off to their department and still have 02:48:55.462 --> 02:48:59.063 [UNKNOWN]: So their interpretation of your interpretation of that scene, right? 02:48:59.383 --> 02:49:13.289 [UNKNOWN]: And then, so like the person who is the head of the art department, for instance, it is herself in charge of a bunch of an art director and construction designer and all these people who themselves are really good at that also. 02:49:13.549 --> 02:49:20.891 [UNKNOWN]: And by the time you get to the day, when the thing is like, you're not making what I think of as like in prompt-to-created decisions 02:49:22.692 --> 02:49:26.696 [UNKNOWN]: You're, you're, you're pre-organizing all those things with machine. 02:49:26.756 --> 02:49:26.997 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:49:27.337 --> 02:49:30.220 [UNKNOWN]: You're running a big creative company. 02:49:30.480 --> 02:49:30.600 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:49:30.640 --> 02:49:34.284 [UNKNOWN]: And, but you're really, you're, you're running the company, not the, the, the creation. 02:49:34.304 --> 02:49:36.967 [UNKNOWN]: Like, you're, you're basically become like a manager almost. 02:49:37.333 --> 02:49:42.058 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, and I, there's nothing on creative about that. 02:49:42.098 --> 02:49:49.707 [UNKNOWN]: It's just very different from like I was so used to the sort of like, the feeling of play as you test things. 02:49:49.727 --> 02:49:52.811 [UNKNOWN]: And there's like, in a narrative film, you're not testing. 02:49:53.131 --> 02:49:53.651 [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? 02:49:53.671 --> 02:50:09.096 [UNKNOWN]: Like you have to know that when you like if you want to do a really really ambitious shot in a really expensive location Maybe there's a there maybe you have like a pre-light day on that location so people can go figure out the Problems but you can't go there and try and be like try to figure it. 02:50:09.436 --> 02:50:18.259 [UNKNOWN]: It's weighing in no you have to like you got to know and there's a you know the crew is Many like there were days When if you include all parts of this there's like 500 people and 02:50:18.919 --> 02:50:23.305 [UNKNOWN]: You know, I mean, like, it's always, they're not all in the same place instead, but there's people constructing on set. 02:50:23.345 --> 02:50:23.826 [UNKNOWN]: Right. 02:50:23.866 --> 02:50:33.719 [UNKNOWN]: Like, and not to mention, like, There was there were locations shut down for insurance reasons three days before you do that. 02:50:33.779 --> 02:50:34.500 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, like, like, 02:50:35.621 --> 02:50:51.643 [UNKNOWN]: And that is, that can be the case with any production, that could be a music video too, but there, but there's those types of concerns and hassles go way up when you are dealing with very large budget, a very large number of people, very large number of scenes. 02:50:52.143 --> 02:50:54.584 [UNKNOWN]: and your boss is a very large company. 02:50:54.624 --> 02:51:12.013 [UNKNOWN]: We made this movie for Apple, and at the time, I don't know if it's still the case, but they're regulations for what building you could shoot of any scene in, where identical to the regulations for where they could put Apple employees to work on the next iPhone, friends. 02:51:12.653 --> 02:51:16.655 [UNKNOWN]: So if there was a spestus anywhere in this building, 02:51:18.863 --> 02:51:24.187 [UNKNOWN]: They had to have a certain remediation process and blah, blah, blah, and we're shooting a period film for a couple of hours. 02:51:24.307 --> 02:51:39.439 [UNKNOWN]: Right, so we're shooting in a roller rink that was built in the 60s or 70s and literally somebody would come in and look at the snack bar area and go, oh, those are 9 inch squares. 02:51:39.919 --> 02:51:44.622 [UNKNOWN]: The nine inch tiles, like nine inch tiles are only were made during the period when they were probably asbestos. 02:51:44.662 --> 02:51:51.966 [UNKNOWN]: And so if you want, you can either remediate, which puts the scene back, this, you know, like you, that's a half million dollars and you can't shoot this till after your movie's done. 02:51:51.986 --> 02:51:58.350 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, I mean, I think I've been, would go, I would, I would start eating the tiles, right? 02:51:58.370 --> 02:51:58.790 [UNKNOWN]: He brought it up. 02:51:58.810 --> 02:52:00.271 [UNKNOWN]: I'm remediating. 02:52:00.291 --> 02:52:02.632 [UNKNOWN]: Well, so what you have to do, like, you have to shoot around it, right? 02:52:02.652 --> 02:52:04.513 [UNKNOWN]: So you're like, now nobody can be standing in there. 02:52:04.533 --> 02:52:07.295 [UNKNOWN]: They can be ordering from there, but there can't be anyone standing in there. 02:52:07.435 --> 02:52:12.098 [UNKNOWN]: Okay, so they at least let you still use the building, but they wouldn't let anybody step on the tiles. 02:52:12.438 --> 02:52:13.899 [UNKNOWN]: In that case, that was the case. 02:52:14.059 --> 02:52:29.528 [UNKNOWN]: But there was also, like, but in the, but there was a whole set that we had, like, the May, the office building, we have three office buildings we shoot in over the periods of the growth of the company that made beany babies, because the history of the beany babies. 02:52:29.768 --> 02:52:35.632 [UNKNOWN]: And, and then the second one, the one that we spend most of our time in terms of screen minutes, 02:52:36.052 --> 02:52:46.385 [UNKNOWN]: we have all these carefully planned shots in a set that got shut down ten days before shooting because of because they had we had done this bestest remediation and they still determined that it wasn't enough. 02:52:46.761 --> 02:52:54.707 [UNKNOWN]: see this is why I don't like doing work or other people because it just like you lose kind of this control and it drives me crazy. 02:52:55.287 --> 02:52:57.028 [UNKNOWN]: It was that it can be very difficult. 02:52:57.208 --> 02:53:11.679 [UNKNOWN]: On the other hand, you also get like what what I love and hate about working on a narrative film of that scale is that yeah, is that I could do things and make things that never dream of doing on my own or with the 02:53:12.399 --> 02:53:36.537 [UNKNOWN]: And interestingly, like the day that that film came out on Apple TV, which is now like a year or two ago, it was probably watched by more people on that day than my, all of my records have ever been like, it's, you know, millions of millions of millions of people would have seen it, you know, and, and I don't, and, and what's weird is it like I, unlike a rock show or unlike social media where there's like at least some feedback. 02:53:38.067 --> 02:53:38.827 [UNKNOWN]: That's got to be great. 02:53:38.867 --> 02:53:39.668 [UNKNOWN]: It's just there. 02:53:39.708 --> 02:53:41.048 [UNKNOWN]: I think I might have to figure it out. 02:53:41.068 --> 02:53:46.729 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it is, but it's also not, it's like it's, I longed for like, can we sit and watch enough? 02:53:46.749 --> 02:53:47.370 [UNKNOWN]: Sort of engaged. 02:53:47.390 --> 02:53:53.451 [UNKNOWN]: You know, like we did have a few theater, like it showed in a few theaters and like then they did well and people liked it, but like it's not even in a theater. 02:53:53.471 --> 02:53:56.292 [UNKNOWN]: You're like, everyone's quiet, like it's not like a rock show. 02:53:57.032 --> 02:54:10.454 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I know that earlier you said that you like writing and implying music and drawing and painting, but I would have thought that you were some kind of, you know, that you were an engineer because all your videos have so much technology in them. 02:54:11.154 --> 02:54:13.395 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, you are an engineer for sure. 02:54:13.435 --> 02:54:23.516 [UNKNOWN]: You have an engineering brain, but it seems like you also really like tinkering or like exploring like cutting edge technology stuff like you've got your finger on the pulse of. 02:54:23.817 --> 02:54:24.137 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you. 02:54:24.157 --> 02:54:24.977 [UNKNOWN]: I appreciate that. 02:54:26.977 --> 02:54:27.598 [UNKNOWN]: It feels like it. 02:54:27.778 --> 02:54:34.581 [UNKNOWN]: It does, but is there so you said that you wanted to do the space the zero g thing and that took like 10 years to get there. 02:54:34.601 --> 02:54:44.405 [UNKNOWN]: Is there other things that like, you know, like moon shots that you want to film stuff like that, that you're not even afraid to talk about because you're, you don't think it's ever going to happen. 02:54:44.425 --> 02:54:45.045 [UNKNOWN]: I don't think so. 02:54:45.085 --> 02:54:48.107 [UNKNOWN]: Like right now, I can't think of any that are like there's a cup. 02:54:48.947 --> 02:55:05.400 [UNKNOWN]: The two videos we're working on we're still like trying to find the right partners for and everything so like they that those feel a little bit like moonshots right now, but I think if we pull all the copper out of Jeff basis is yeah we could recycle and raise in the money for the next one that I don't think you didn't even all of it. 02:55:05.440 --> 02:55:06.501 [UNKNOWN]: Small percentage of that copper. 02:55:06.661 --> 02:55:11.004 [UNKNOWN]: Will's idea is to get a Ferris wheel in the desert and spin it up really fast. 02:55:11.044 --> 02:55:13.526 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, could we get it like a hundred music video for you? 02:55:13.546 --> 02:55:19.330 [UNKNOWN]: We spin up a used Ferris wheel to like a thousand RPM and then blow the axle off and send it to the desert. 02:55:20.348 --> 02:55:21.369 [UNKNOWN]: I would love to see that. 02:55:21.589 --> 02:55:22.889 [UNKNOWN]: I would really love to see that. 02:55:22.929 --> 02:55:23.710 [UNKNOWN]: I would really love to see that. 02:55:23.750 --> 02:55:26.211 [UNKNOWN]: Actually, that was one of the ideas that didn't happen. 02:55:26.231 --> 02:55:27.771 [UNKNOWN]: It was real sort of. 02:55:27.891 --> 02:55:28.091 [UNKNOWN]: Okay. 02:55:28.192 --> 02:55:32.673 [UNKNOWN]: That didn't happen in our video for the one moment. 02:55:32.893 --> 02:55:39.116 [UNKNOWN]: A lip sync video that lip sync section that didn't happen when the water balloons hitting me, I'm supposed to be lip syncing there. 02:55:39.476 --> 02:55:40.897 [UNKNOWN]: And there's a ingenious machine. 02:55:41.997 --> 02:55:51.822 [UNKNOWN]: which is a ferris wheel with little plates, little plexi plates with an etching of my lips on it, light, edge lit like this. 02:55:51.842 --> 02:55:54.763 [UNKNOWN]: There's a light coming up like this and so each plate spins past it. 02:55:54.783 --> 02:55:55.424 [UNKNOWN]: Okay, yeah. 02:55:55.544 --> 02:55:56.804 [UNKNOWN]: Just the that one. 02:55:57.164 --> 02:55:58.425 [UNKNOWN]: It's got my list in the fitting 6000. 02:55:58.465 --> 02:55:58.725 [UNKNOWN]: Maybe 600. 02:55:59.746 --> 02:55:59.966 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, 600. 02:55:59.986 --> 02:56:01.607 [UNKNOWN]: 6,000 would be like a fucking airplane. 02:56:04.728 --> 02:56:13.275 [UNKNOWN]: Well, but it might have been, it had to be extraordinarily fast because we're shooting at, you know, you're shooting it, I guess that's probably like three or four hundred transfer seconds. 02:56:13.295 --> 02:56:14.436 [UNKNOWN]: Six thousand would be crazy. 02:56:14.456 --> 02:56:16.918 [UNKNOWN]: Six thousand RPM, that's a hundred times a second. 02:56:17.398 --> 02:56:17.898 [UNKNOWN]: That's great. 02:56:18.419 --> 02:56:19.300 [UNKNOWN]: I don't remember. 02:56:19.360 --> 02:56:20.300 [UNKNOWN]: It's a lot of RPM. 02:56:20.340 --> 02:56:24.984 [UNKNOWN]: It was so many RPM that that it was unclear if it was safe from 02:56:30.108 --> 02:56:41.417 [UNKNOWN]: When we put it there, it actually like the the hooking bulk of the machine was such that like you're watching this machine spin and much more than you're watching the beauty of those water balloons. 02:56:41.537 --> 02:56:43.339 [UNKNOWN]: So we're like, you know, we'll just lose the lip sync for this part. 02:56:43.679 --> 02:56:47.782 [UNKNOWN]: But it's still sitting under my house in the cross space in the house. 02:56:48.182 --> 02:56:51.965 [UNKNOWN]: So if you want a giant steel wheel, yeah, because I've got to get rid of it anyways. 02:56:54.602 --> 02:56:56.123 [UNKNOWN]: It can be made to come and take a home with you. 02:56:56.143 --> 02:56:57.123 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:56:57.263 --> 02:57:11.429 [UNKNOWN]: It was like a, it was very expensive piece of machinery to get, like that was one of those, like, in the production of that video is like, okay, so who do you, who do you, if you would need to make a Ferris wheel with, with your lips, like 36,000 RPM, who do you call? 02:57:11.809 --> 02:57:13.330 [UNKNOWN]: And there are like, who do you call it? 02:57:13.350 --> 02:57:30.300 [UNKNOWN]: There's a prop shop basically that specializes in high tech stuff for like horror films based on Do not cheat and so it's like that was many that was like a big chunk of the budget went into building that thing They never got used and so and it was like a beautiful piece of art in its own way how much of that kind? 02:57:30.912 --> 02:57:57.583 [UNKNOWN]: don't remember it was I mean it was I'm guessing it was between it was like you know between nine and fifteen thousand dollars something okay that could be somewhere that's oh no that's reasonable yeah no it could definitely be so much worse but it but it was not and I might be off I mean maybe it was thirty I don't know but it was like it was it was too much to have wasted on something that didn't go in there but um and also too much to just like at the end of the thing be like I don't know then the recycling put it in my house I put it under 02:57:59.544 --> 02:58:02.087 [UNKNOWN]: Um, and now I've got to figure out how to get it out from under my house. 02:58:02.867 --> 02:58:08.313 [UNKNOWN]: So if you, if you, like, you're looking into the future, do you see yourself doing the music video stuff? 02:58:08.513 --> 02:58:09.734 [UNKNOWN]: Do you see any more movies? 02:58:09.774 --> 02:58:13.478 [UNKNOWN]: Do you see maybe whatever kind of comes any opportunities that come? 02:58:13.698 --> 02:58:17.682 [UNKNOWN]: I would like, I so wish that I could, I like, I need to have an answer for this for my own life. 02:58:17.742 --> 02:58:19.544 [UNKNOWN]: Not just like you don't podcast. 02:58:19.644 --> 02:58:21.366 [UNKNOWN]: That's, that's, someone's got to say. 02:58:21.466 --> 02:58:22.086 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, exactly. 02:58:22.547 --> 02:58:23.668 [UNKNOWN]: Uh, no, there's, 02:58:26.367 --> 02:58:29.850 [UNKNOWN]: I am in the myth like this is why I sort of like veered into the A.I. 02:58:29.870 --> 02:58:46.701 [UNKNOWN]: land before is that my suspicion is that though changing the the changing topography of culture is is more relevant to that to answering that question then my own personal feelings about what would be fun to do. 02:58:47.801 --> 02:58:54.163 [UNKNOWN]: Um, I have realized that there's sort of there's sort of three buckets of that that I need to account for. 02:58:54.503 --> 02:58:56.743 [UNKNOWN]: How do I like to spend my hours of my day? 02:58:57.864 --> 02:59:02.645 [UNKNOWN]: What things will I be proud of and animate me to do things and how to pin my bills? 02:59:03.025 --> 02:59:03.205 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 02:59:03.425 --> 02:59:07.566 [UNKNOWN]: And those are those have become less and less connected over the years. 02:59:08.047 --> 02:59:12.868 [UNKNOWN]: That like they all seem to be one like I didn't I could not tell you the difference between them in my 20s. 02:59:14.148 --> 02:59:21.871 [UNKNOWN]: I now know that like I'm often not like I don't always love the process of writing songs, like they can be very arduous because I'm really pissed of myself. 02:59:21.911 --> 02:59:23.031 [UNKNOWN]: It's not going well, whatever. 02:59:23.732 --> 02:59:33.515 [UNKNOWN]: But those are the things I feel most driven to do and feel most proud of when I'm done, like I don't think I could not keep writing songs, like they matter to me, you know. 02:59:35.336 --> 02:59:36.757 [UNKNOWN]: And whether I am, 02:59:38.522 --> 02:59:55.298 [UNKNOWN]: paid for doing that in any kind of way that I keep doing it like it does matter to me obviously, but like the the inputs and outputs of of those three boxes are wired differently than they have been and I think that's changing along with the way culture changes. 02:59:55.598 --> 03:00:08.805 [UNKNOWN]: So I would not be surprised like I would love to make another movie with my wife having said that when we finished the last one we had a lot of opportunities right away that were sort of like if you want to direct this thing for us we want to do that thing for us and we needed to take a break and work go back to other careers. 03:00:09.886 --> 03:00:19.871 [UNKNOWN]: Right now the film industry is so so screwed like we have I know so many people who are who are out of work in film right now that like it does not seem reasonable to be like 03:00:24.053 --> 03:00:33.077 [UNKNOWN]: You know, and I'm not sure I'm there right now, I'm, my guess is that what it will be is, can, here's my answer. 03:00:33.397 --> 03:00:33.577 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 03:00:34.237 --> 03:00:51.085 [UNKNOWN]: I think that the, that there is another, like, that I'm beginning to pivot into, I'm excited about the way that the higher world is starting to recognize the changes that happened in the last 15 years, 20 years, as being something that they need to engage with in a more 03:00:52.045 --> 03:01:00.268 [UNKNOWN]: I wouldn't be surprised if we started making doing art shows that happen in galleries or museums instead of on YouTube or both. 03:01:00.888 --> 03:01:12.373 [UNKNOWN]: I wouldn't be surprised if we tried to figure out the way to make our rock and roll show happen in a theater setting more than a club setting. 03:01:14.254 --> 03:01:23.181 [UNKNOWN]: So I think there are creative spaces to play with that we'll that are opening up not only because of the changes in my life, but because it changes in the culture around us. 03:01:23.681 --> 03:01:24.662 [UNKNOWN]: Is that too abstract? 03:01:25.042 --> 03:01:32.888 [UNKNOWN]: No, I think it's I think that's interesting to sort of seeing the things that come up that are new that are going to do culture and then seeing how that feels and playing with them. 03:01:33.188 --> 03:01:36.531 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I like I think that. 03:01:38.092 --> 03:01:38.713 [UNKNOWN]: There's stuff there. 03:01:39.193 --> 03:01:40.454 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's all I want to say. 03:01:41.793 --> 03:01:41.993 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 03:01:42.253 --> 03:01:42.714 [UNKNOWN]: New stuff. 03:01:43.174 --> 03:01:44.074 [UNKNOWN]: It is basically that. 03:01:44.135 --> 03:01:44.755 [UNKNOWN]: It's new stuff. 03:01:44.835 --> 03:01:54.121 [UNKNOWN]: I don't want like the idea of trying to keep alive a any stream of output just for the sake of keeping them alive. 03:01:54.201 --> 03:01:56.582 [UNKNOWN]: That's not a real matter. 03:01:56.622 --> 03:02:01.486 [UNKNOWN]: Anything that you would like to promote or fair or I love your podcast. 03:02:01.726 --> 03:02:02.486 [UNKNOWN]: I want to promote this. 03:02:02.686 --> 03:02:04.087 [UNKNOWN]: Have you ever listened to it before? 03:02:04.287 --> 03:02:05.488 [UNKNOWN]: Only when you guys reach out to say, 03:02:12.205 --> 03:02:28.902 [UNKNOWN]: uh... uh... was my favorite animal dogs chatter to dogs turtles my dog is really my wife's dog she's scared of me but she's your wife for the dog 03:02:29.702 --> 03:02:31.604 [UNKNOWN]: Probably both, but definitely the dog. 03:02:32.204 --> 03:02:34.026 [UNKNOWN]: The dog actually, what's weird is the dog loves me. 03:02:34.106 --> 03:02:35.908 [UNKNOWN]: No, it's not a better, I'm a better scratcher. 03:02:36.048 --> 03:02:36.428 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 03:02:36.468 --> 03:02:39.191 [UNKNOWN]: And I'm like, I'm very, very good at handling the dog. 03:02:39.211 --> 03:02:39.651 [UNKNOWN]: Super good. 03:02:39.691 --> 03:02:40.292 [UNKNOWN]: The best scratcher. 03:02:40.392 --> 03:02:45.797 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I'm definitely the best in my house, but I'm not safe unless my wife is in the room. 03:02:46.117 --> 03:02:46.598 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, my. 03:02:46.678 --> 03:02:49.160 [UNKNOWN]: So when my wife is in the room, the dog thinks I'm the greatest. 03:02:49.780 --> 03:02:53.304 [UNKNOWN]: And then it shows, it shows my dog as soon as the wife leaves, the dog is like, 03:02:54.192 --> 03:02:55.613 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, I'm so scary. 03:02:56.333 --> 03:02:57.273 [UNKNOWN]: Oh my goodness. 03:02:57.293 --> 03:02:58.574 [UNKNOWN]: She's a rescue and she can't. 03:02:58.614 --> 03:02:58.854 [UNKNOWN]: Whatever. 03:02:59.854 --> 03:03:00.375 [UNKNOWN]: Oh, Kevin. 03:03:01.215 --> 03:03:02.576 [UNKNOWN]: Well, thank you so much for coming to our podcast. 03:03:02.836 --> 03:03:05.197 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you for having me and adding me like rambling rambles. 03:03:05.217 --> 03:03:05.577 [UNKNOWN]: This is fun. 03:03:05.677 --> 03:03:09.118 [UNKNOWN]: I hope I hope we didn't delve too much into old topics. 03:03:09.579 --> 03:03:10.439 [UNKNOWN]: I don't think so. 03:03:10.519 --> 03:03:15.001 [UNKNOWN]: I mean, I feel like I really, I really log a read on you guys. 03:03:15.281 --> 03:03:16.361 [UNKNOWN]: No, that's great. 03:03:16.421 --> 03:03:17.802 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I enjoyed it. 03:03:18.442 --> 03:03:18.782 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you. 03:03:18.982 --> 03:03:19.643 [UNKNOWN]: We'll see you guys next time. 03:03:19.663 --> 03:03:20.263 [UNKNOWN]: Peace out, universe.