WEBVTT 00:00.091 --> 00:06.775 [SPEAKER_01]: To get this episode of forensic tales ad-free, please visit patreon.com slash forensic tales. 00:17.402 --> 00:22.304 [SPEAKER_01]: Four children from the same family died suddenly before reaching their second birthdays. 00:23.024 --> 00:27.326 [SPEAKER_01]: To investigators, the pattern seemed too extraordinary to be natural. 00:28.106 --> 00:36.130 [SPEAKER_01]: And when their mother's private diaries appeared to contain admissions of guilt, she was branded Australia's worst female serial killer. 00:36.850 --> 00:38.110 [SPEAKER_01]: But there were no witnesses. 00:38.771 --> 00:40.631 [SPEAKER_01]: No physical evidence of smothering. 00:41.272 --> 00:44.613 [SPEAKER_01]: And no one could explain exactly how the children had died. 00:45.380 --> 00:53.108 [SPEAKER_01]: Then decades later, advances in genetic testing uncovered something that no one involved in the original investigation could have known. 00:54.169 --> 00:57.572 [SPEAKER_01]: This is forensic tales, episode 352, the story of Kathleen Fullbig. 01:28.587 --> 01:30.068 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Forensic Tales. 01:30.448 --> 01:32.269 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Courtney Fretwell. 01:33.190 --> 01:37.593 [SPEAKER_01]: Forensic Tales is a weekly true crime podcast with a Forensic twist. 01:38.293 --> 01:44.457 [SPEAKER_01]: Each episode features real stories, highlighting how Forensic science was used to uncover the truth. 01:45.157 --> 01:52.962 [SPEAKER_01]: If you enjoy deep dives into real cases and the science behind them, make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode. 01:53.562 --> 02:05.011 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you want even more content, including monthly full-length bonus episodes and early ad free access to over 300 episodes, you can join our community over on Patreon. 02:05.412 --> 02:08.234 [SPEAKER_01]: The support there truly helps keep the show going. 02:08.874 --> 02:13.498 [SPEAKER_01]: To learn more, visit patreon.com slash forensic tales. 02:14.264 --> 02:17.109 [SPEAKER_01]: and one small favor that makes a huge difference. 02:17.610 --> 02:23.621 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're enjoying the show, please consider leaving a positive review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. 02:24.122 --> 02:27.087 [SPEAKER_01]: It really helps other listeners discover the podcast. 02:29.157 --> 02:39.760 [SPEAKER_01]: As you may have heard, I'll be heading across the pond for CrimeCon UK, which I am very excited about, and also trying not to think too hard about the very long flight. 02:40.500 --> 02:49.043 [SPEAKER_01]: CrimeCon UK is happening October 3rd and 4th, 2026 in London, and there's still time to get your tickets. 02:49.823 --> 02:53.564 [SPEAKER_01]: If you'd like to join me, you can use code tails when you purchase them. 02:54.344 --> 03:02.934 [SPEAKER_01]: And in honor of the trip, I thought it would be fun to spend the next few episodes traveling outside the United States and covering some international cases. 03:04.115 --> 03:12.184 [SPEAKER_01]: We're starting in Australia with the case of Kathleen Fullbig, a woman once described as the country's worst female serial killer. 03:12.965 --> 03:25.654 [SPEAKER_01]: But after she spent two decades in prison, advances in science raised a very different possibility that no crime had occurred at all, and just a note before getting into the episode. 03:26.155 --> 03:37.823 [SPEAKER_01]: We cover a lot of disturbing and difficult topics on the show, but this week's case talks about certain topics, including child victims, that might be triggering for some listeners. 03:38.743 --> 03:40.805 [SPEAKER_01]: Please take care of yourself while listening. 03:42.652 --> 03:53.275 [SPEAKER_01]: Kathleen Meghan Fullbig was born on June 14, 1967 in Sydney, the capital of New South Wales and the largest city in the state and in Australia. 03:53.915 --> 03:55.675 [SPEAKER_01]: But life was never easy for her. 03:56.796 --> 04:01.937 [SPEAKER_01]: When Kathleen was just 18 months old, her biological father did the unthinkable. 04:02.597 --> 04:04.998 [SPEAKER_01]: He murdered her mom by stabbing her 24 times. 04:07.097 --> 04:13.479 [SPEAKER_01]: He was arrested the day after the murder and sentenced to 15 years in prison before being deported to England. 04:14.239 --> 04:17.540 [SPEAKER_01]: After that, Kathleen was sent to live in foster care. 04:18.321 --> 04:23.062 [SPEAKER_01]: During that time, she moved around a lot and called many different places, home. 04:23.603 --> 04:27.004 [SPEAKER_01]: But nothing could replace the mother she lost and barely got to know. 04:28.264 --> 04:36.572 [SPEAKER_01]: She eventually found what appeared to be a permanent home with foster parents in Newcastle, where she remained until she became a teenager. 04:37.513 --> 04:41.897 [SPEAKER_01]: Although, for reasons that remain unclear, they never formally adopted her. 04:42.898 --> 04:49.964 [SPEAKER_01]: But while her living situation may have finally looked stable from the outside, life inside the home was anything but. 04:51.145 --> 05:00.107 [SPEAKER_01]: Her foster mother was said to be extremely controlling, and both she and Kathleen's foster father were reportedly very strict disciplinarians. 05:00.848 --> 05:06.689 [SPEAKER_01]: Often punishing the kids in ways that were harsh and completely disproportionate to whatever they had done. 05:07.449 --> 05:10.490 [SPEAKER_01]: So Kathleen did what many kids her age might do. 05:11.310 --> 05:15.451 [SPEAKER_01]: She tried to spend as much time as possible out of the house, especially 05:18.924 --> 05:24.170 [SPEAKER_01]: When Kathleen was 17, she left school about six months before completing your 12. 05:24.731 --> 05:32.741 [SPEAKER_01]: And after another heated argument with her foster mother, she also left home, moved in with a friend, and started working at a local restaurant. 05:34.135 --> 05:40.783 [SPEAKER_01]: The following year, when she was 18, she met 23-year-old Craig Fullbig on the dance floor of a local club. 05:41.684 --> 05:44.927 [SPEAKER_01]: But the age difference didn't seem to matter to either one of them. 05:45.568 --> 05:48.892 [SPEAKER_01]: And by 1986, they were living together and engaged. 05:49.592 --> 05:51.794 [SPEAKER_01]: Then in 1987, they got married. 05:52.674 --> 06:01.640 [SPEAKER_01]: Soon after tying the knot, Kathleen became pregnant and gave birth to their first child Caleb on February 1, 1989. 06:02.620 --> 06:12.006 [SPEAKER_01]: She and Craig were thrilled to grow their family and become parents, but their happiness was short-lived because Caleb died just 19 days after being born. 06:13.477 --> 06:20.319 [SPEAKER_01]: On February 20th, he died in his sleep while sleeping in the bedroom directly next door to Kathleen and Craig's. 06:21.060 --> 06:31.303 [SPEAKER_01]: And initially, all signs seem to point to sudden infant death syndrome, which happens when an infant mysteriously dies, and there's no apparent cause of death. 06:32.907 --> 06:39.492 [SPEAKER_01]: The following summer, Kathleen gave birth to their second child, Patrick, on June 3, 1990. 06:40.333 --> 06:43.555 [SPEAKER_01]: And for the first three months, things seem to be going well. 06:44.316 --> 06:49.280 [SPEAKER_01]: He seemed completely healthy, and Craig stayed home to help Kathleen take care of him. 06:49.980 --> 06:55.625 [SPEAKER_01]: But on October 18th, when he was just four months old, Kathleen put him to bed in his crib. 06:56.746 --> 07:06.934 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometime later, Craig woke to the sound of Kathleen screaming, and when he rushed into the room he found her standing beside Patrick's crib, and he wasn't breathing. 07:08.215 --> 07:13.259 [SPEAKER_01]: Patrick survived, but the episode left him with serious medical complications. 07:13.879 --> 07:22.606 [SPEAKER_01]: He was later diagnosed with epilepsy and cortical blindness, meaning his brain could no longer properly process what his eyes were seeing. 07:23.286 --> 07:30.252 [SPEAKER_01]: But the doctors who cared for him were never able to explain what had caused him to suddenly stop breathing that night. 07:35.736 --> 07:44.772 [SPEAKER_01]: he was found unresponsive at home, and his death was initially attributed to complications of the mysterious brain disorder that had caused his seizures. 07:45.433 --> 07:46.776 [SPEAKER_01]: He was just eight months old. 07:48.741 --> 07:56.569 [SPEAKER_01]: 18 months later, Kathleen and Craig welcomed their third child, Sarah, born October 14, 1992. 07:57.310 --> 08:06.800 [SPEAKER_01]: But on the night of August 29, 1993, when she was just 10 months old, Craig put her to bed after she fell asleep beside him on the couch. 08:07.620 --> 08:10.744 [SPEAKER_01]: Then a few hours later, she was found unresponsive. 08:12.128 --> 08:18.517 [SPEAKER_01]: Just like with Caleb, Sarah's death was believed to be another case of sudden infant death syndrome. 08:19.298 --> 08:22.382 [SPEAKER_01]: But no one really knew what was happening to these babies. 08:24.465 --> 08:33.790 [SPEAKER_01]: In 1996, Kathleen and Craig moved to Singleton and welcomed their fourth child, Laura, on August 7th, 1997. 08:34.550 --> 08:42.614 [SPEAKER_01]: And for the next 18 months, Laura seemed to be the miracle her parents had been waiting for after so many heartbreaking losses. 08:43.655 --> 08:49.658 [SPEAKER_01]: But on March 1st, 1999, she also died in her sleep just like her siblings. 08:51.347 --> 08:54.428 [SPEAKER_01]: The fourth baby's case was a little different than the others. 08:55.189 --> 09:02.291 [SPEAKER_01]: She was 18 months old, so the thought that sudden infant death syndrome was behind her death seemed to be a stretch. 09:03.092 --> 09:12.335 [SPEAKER_01]: And while there's still so much we don't know about it, most deaths occur between two and four months old, but can happen all the way up to one year old. 09:13.035 --> 09:18.578 [SPEAKER_01]: But in all four of the deaths, the babies died in their sleep, and Kathleen was the one 09:21.048 --> 09:36.257 [SPEAKER_01]: As with each of the other children, an autopsy was performed on Laura, and the pathologist discovered evidence of myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle, but ultimately listed Laura's cause of death as undetermined. 09:37.017 --> 09:47.283 [SPEAKER_01]: And considering that Kathleen and Craig had now lost all four of their children, the pathologist noted that the possibility of multiple homicides couldn't be excluded. 09:49.397 --> 09:55.941 [SPEAKER_01]: Police began investigating the deaths, but it was several weeks later that the case took an unexpected turn. 09:57.142 --> 10:02.545 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometime after Laura's death, Kathleen and Craig separated and she moved out of the house. 10:03.425 --> 10:07.668 [SPEAKER_01]: While she was gone, Craig discovered a diary that she had left behind. 10:08.468 --> 10:14.092 [SPEAKER_01]: And some of the entries suggested to him that Kathleen may have actually murdered the babies. 10:15.947 --> 10:23.996 [SPEAKER_01]: In one entry about Sarah, she wrote, I know I was short-tempered and cruel sometimes to her, and she left with a bit of help. 10:25.377 --> 10:32.585 [SPEAKER_01]: And in another, while writing about her anger and frustration, she made a chilling comparison to the man who had murdered her mother. 10:33.486 --> 10:35.428 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, I'm my father's daughter. 10:37.156 --> 10:47.423 [SPEAKER_01]: to Craig and later to prosecutors, these words appeared to confirm his worst suspicion that the deaths of their four children hadn't been natural at all. 10:48.663 --> 10:54.467 [SPEAKER_01]: They believed Kathleen had been documenting her guilt without ever directly confessing to what she had done. 10:55.768 --> 11:01.652 [SPEAKER_01]: Soon after finding the diary, Craig took it to the police, and what followed was an extensive 11:05.135 --> 11:07.636 [SPEAKER_01]: Detectives interviewed Craig several times. 11:08.196 --> 11:15.119 [SPEAKER_01]: Questioned Kathleen for nearly eight hours, searched the couple's home, and recovered another one of her diaries. 11:15.599 --> 11:18.060 [SPEAKER_01]: Believing she had likely smothered the babies. 11:18.740 --> 11:22.422 [SPEAKER_01]: They also began looking at the deaths of all four children together. 11:23.122 --> 11:27.504 [SPEAKER_01]: Medical records were collected, previous autopsy findings were reviewed. 11:28.144 --> 11:31.466 [SPEAKER_01]: And experts were asked to determine whether each child 11:35.027 --> 11:40.088 [SPEAKER_01]: but there was still no physical or forensic evidence showing that any of them had been smothered. 11:41.228 --> 11:55.691 [SPEAKER_01]: Instead, the case rested on a combination of Kathleen's diary entries, conflicting medical opinions, and what investigators viewed as the extraordinary improbability of four children from the same family dying suddenly. 11:56.852 --> 12:00.632 [SPEAKER_01]: In other words, investigators treated the pattern almost like 12:04.473 --> 12:12.562 [SPEAKER_01]: 2001, more than two years after Laura's death, Kathleen Fullbig was arrested and charged with killing all four of her children. 12:13.704 --> 12:17.528 [SPEAKER_01]: She was quickly labeled Australia's worst female serial killer. 12:19.365 --> 12:22.846 [SPEAKER_01]: The long-awaited trial finally began in 2003. 12:23.686 --> 12:29.828 [SPEAKER_01]: The prosecution alleged she murdered her four children by smothering them during periods of frustration. 12:30.449 --> 12:32.789 [SPEAKER_01]: And Craig's testimony was a big part of that. 12:33.850 --> 12:39.672 [SPEAKER_01]: He testified about how much Kathleen struggled as a mother and would sometimes lose her temper with the kids. 12:40.612 --> 12:46.235 [SPEAKER_01]: Then there was the pathologist testimony about how Laura's death was listed as undetermined. 12:47.395 --> 12:55.419 [SPEAKER_01]: This reasoning closely resembled what became known as Meadows Law, named after British pediatrician Sir Roy Meadow. 12:56.560 --> 13:00.142 [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't an actual law but a widely repeated rule of thumb. 13:01.002 --> 13:08.025 [SPEAKER_01]: One sudden infant death is a tragedy, two is suspicious, and three is murder until proved otherwise. 13:09.366 --> 13:18.372 [SPEAKER_01]: Essentially, the more children who died unexpectedly within the same family, the more likely authorities were to assume that their mother was responsible. 13:19.973 --> 13:22.435 [SPEAKER_01]: Finally, there were Kathleen's own words. 13:22.895 --> 13:27.098 [SPEAKER_01]: The diaries that prosecutors portrayed as something close to a confession. 13:28.519 --> 13:30.721 [SPEAKER_01]: Numerous entries were presented to the jury. 13:31.441 --> 13:33.222 [SPEAKER_01]: Some contained fairly ordinary 13:34.897 --> 13:44.625 [SPEAKER_01]: Kathleen wished she had more time to exercise, worried about her marriage, and sometimes resented how much caring for a baby restricted her freedom. 13:45.485 --> 13:47.487 [SPEAKER_01]: Others were far more unsettling. 13:48.247 --> 13:55.453 [SPEAKER_01]: She wrote about losing her temper, wanting Laura to stop crying, and fearing what might happen when she was alone with her. 13:56.594 --> 14:00.637 [SPEAKER_01]: She also repeatedly described herself as responsible for the deaths 14:02.859 --> 14:08.443 [SPEAKER_01]: The prosecution argued, these weren't simply the private thoughts of an exhausted, grieving mother. 14:09.084 --> 14:14.448 [SPEAKER_01]: They believed Kathleen was admitting, without ever saying so directly, that she had done this. 14:15.709 --> 14:19.632 [SPEAKER_01]: But the defense presented a very different interpretation of the evidence. 14:20.553 --> 14:26.738 [SPEAKER_01]: They argued that each child had an individual medical history that could support a natural death. 14:27.439 --> 14:32.003 [SPEAKER_01]: Caleb had been diagnosed with laryngeomalacia, or a floppy larynx. 14:32.743 --> 14:36.666 [SPEAKER_01]: Patrick suffered from an unexplained brain disorder and severe seizures. 14:37.587 --> 14:48.531 [SPEAKER_01]: Sarah's death had been officially classified as sudden infant death syndrome, and Laura's autopsy revealed myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle. 14:49.392 --> 14:54.374 [SPEAKER_01]: Those are all things that could lead to death, especially in a baby just a few months old. 14:55.695 --> 15:00.760 [SPEAKER_01]: They also argued that none of the autopsy's found physical evidence of smothering. 15:01.360 --> 15:06.205 [SPEAKER_01]: Although that wasn't a slam dunk argument, because that isn't always easy to determine. 15:06.865 --> 15:11.610 [SPEAKER_01]: Suffocation can sometimes leave behind few if any specific signs. 15:13.291 --> 15:22.538 [SPEAKER_01]: As for the diaries, Kathleen maintained that they reflected grief, depression, and the guilt in an adequacy she felt after losing all of her children. 15:23.519 --> 15:34.628 [SPEAKER_01]: Her attorneys pointed to other entries expressing love and concern for the children, while several friends described Kathleen as a caring mother who appeared devastated by their deaths. 15:36.508 --> 15:40.412 [SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately, the case against her was entirely circumstantial. 15:40.812 --> 15:46.598 [SPEAKER_01]: There were no witnesses, no confession, and no physical or forensic evidence of murder. 15:47.439 --> 15:57.369 [SPEAKER_01]: But after seven weeks of testimony, the jury accepted the prosecution's interpretation of the medical evidence, the pattern of deaths and Kathleen's Diaries. 15:58.860 --> 16:04.041 [SPEAKER_01]: On May 21st, 2003, she was found guilty on all counts. 16:04.661 --> 16:12.442 [SPEAKER_01]: Three counts of murder, one count of manslaughter, and one count of maliciously inflicting grievous bodily harm. 16:13.383 --> 16:23.804 [SPEAKER_01]: Then a few months later in October, she was sentenced to 40 years in prison, without the possibility of release until she had served 30 years of that sentence. 16:27.485 --> 16:34.008 [SPEAKER_01]: and the court reduced her sentence to 30 years imprisonment with a 25-year non-parallel period. 16:35.068 --> 16:43.832 [SPEAKER_01]: Following that decision, and the rejection of one final appeal later that year, Kathleen had exhausted her ordinary legal options. 16:44.572 --> 16:48.834 [SPEAKER_01]: And for the next several years, there was little public movement in her case. 16:50.394 --> 16:51.895 [SPEAKER_01]: Due to the facts of her case, 16:52.439 --> 16:56.282 [SPEAKER_01]: She was held in a special part of the prison to ensure her safety. 16:57.083 --> 17:03.408 [SPEAKER_01]: However, after a transfer of prisons, she was badly beaten by another inmate in January of 2021. 17:05.939 --> 17:10.162 [SPEAKER_01]: Her case saw little movement until several years later in 2011. 17:11.023 --> 17:31.338 [SPEAKER_01]: That year, an Australian legal academic Emma Conlif published a book titled Murder, Medicine, and Motherhood, in which she argued that Kathleen had been wrongfully convicted on the basis of misleading medical and forensic evidence and unduly prejudicial interpretations of her diaries. 17:32.138 --> 17:41.127 [SPEAKER_01]: She wasn't outright saying she thought Kathleen was 100% innocent, but thought the evidence behind her conviction was incredibly questionable. 17:42.609 --> 17:51.358 [SPEAKER_01]: Then in 2013, several lawyers at the University of Newcastle Legal Center, part of the wider University of Newcastle School of Law and Justice, 17:51.818 --> 17:57.120 [SPEAKER_01]: reopened Kathleen's case with serious questions about the integrity of the forensic evidence. 17:57.960 --> 18:18.048 [SPEAKER_01]: They enlisted several medical experts, including Stephen Cordener, a renowned forensic pathologist at Melbourne's Monash University, whose 121-page report argued that Sarah's death appeared to be an almost textbook example of sudden infant death syndrome, and that Caleb's floppy 18:19.035 --> 18:27.058 [SPEAKER_01]: Patrick's severe seizures and Laura's myocarditis more strongly supported death by natural causes than did smothering. 18:28.359 --> 18:46.786 [SPEAKER_01]: Regarding the medical and forensic evidence that was presented at her 2003 trial, Steven Cordener wrote, in my view, it is wrong to rely on the forensic pathology evidence provided in this case to support the conclusion that one or more of the full big children are the victims of a homicide. 18:47.446 --> 18:51.092 [SPEAKER_01]: There is no merit in forcing certainty where uncertainty exists. 18:51.793 --> 18:59.544 [SPEAKER_01]: The very existence of the enigma of sudden infant death syndrome demonstrates how little we know about why some babies die. 19:01.522 --> 19:09.988 [SPEAKER_01]: In 2015, this group of lawyers delivered an official petition, including Courtney's report to the Attorney General's Office in Sydney. 19:10.589 --> 19:24.999 [SPEAKER_01]: And although it took another three long years for her case to be considered, in August of 2018, New South Wales Attorney General Mark Spikman announced there would be an inquiry to ensure public confidence in the administration of justice. 19:26.383 --> 19:30.746 [SPEAKER_01]: This decision was a massive step forward for Kathleen and her new legal team. 19:31.366 --> 19:36.390 [SPEAKER_01]: It meant that after 15 years, she was finally getting another shot at potential freedom. 19:38.351 --> 19:55.402 [SPEAKER_01]: During the inquiry, her new team of lawyers contacted Dr. Karola Garcia-Divinwesa, an immunologist at Australian National University, and one of the first people in Australia to use genome sequencing to link diseases to genetic variation. 19:56.332 --> 20:06.014 [SPEAKER_01]: She, along with her colleague, geneticist, Todor Arsov, was asked to examine DNA samples from all four deceased children and Kathleen herself. 20:06.694 --> 20:09.875 [SPEAKER_01]: And both of them independently came to the same conclusion. 20:10.535 --> 20:22.698 [SPEAKER_01]: Kathleen had a mutation in her calm to gene, which is one of three genes in the Calmodulin family, which among other things help regulate the heart's electrical activity and contractions. 20:24.524 --> 20:30.251 [SPEAKER_01]: Many variations in the calm genes have been linked to a condition called long qt syndrome. 20:30.812 --> 20:37.721 [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, after each heartbeat, the heart's electrical system needs a moment to reset before it can beat again. 20:38.522 --> 20:40.625 [SPEAKER_01]: In someone with long qt syndrome, 20:40.957 --> 20:43.158 [SPEAKER_01]: That reset takes longer than it should. 20:43.898 --> 20:51.440 [SPEAKER_01]: This can cause the heart to suddenly fall into a dangerously fast or irregular rhythm, and in some cases, stop altogether. 20:52.500 --> 21:03.363 [SPEAKER_01]: According to Dr. Karola Garcia-Divinueza, Kathleen's mutation was what she described as significant, and it was also found in her two daughters, Sarah and Laura. 21:04.483 --> 21:06.804 [SPEAKER_01]: The boys didn't carry that same mutation. 21:07.444 --> 21:18.932 [SPEAKER_01]: However, both Caleb and Patrick carried two rare variants in a different gene known as BSN, or the bassoon gene, which plays a role in how nerve cells communicate. 21:20.213 --> 21:25.917 [SPEAKER_01]: Similar mutations had been associated with severe early onset epilepsy in animal studies. 21:26.878 --> 21:31.801 [SPEAKER_01]: And considering Patrick's documented history of seizures, researchers believed the 21:35.984 --> 21:37.806 [SPEAKER_01]: for his collapse and eventual death. 21:38.586 --> 21:45.492 [SPEAKER_01]: But unlike the mutation found in the girls, the significance of the boys' BSN variants remained uncertain. 21:46.513 --> 21:57.482 [SPEAKER_01]: Scientists couldn't conclusively say that they caused either child's death, but they provided yet another possible natural explanation that had never been considered at Kathleen's trial. 21:59.030 --> 22:03.734 [SPEAKER_01]: All of this sounds like pretty compelling, medical, and forensic evidence, doesn't it? 22:04.755 --> 22:10.000 [SPEAKER_01]: But at the time of the first inquiry, identifying the mutation was only the beginning. 22:10.761 --> 22:15.125 [SPEAKER_01]: The scientists still needed to determine whether this specific mutation 22:15.629 --> 22:18.630 [SPEAKER_01]: was actually capable of causing a dangerous heart rhythm. 22:19.270 --> 22:25.633 [SPEAKER_01]: And because it was so rare, there were no other known families with the exact same mutation to compare it to. 22:26.713 --> 22:31.695 [SPEAKER_01]: So the experts disagreed over just how significant the finding really was. 22:33.624 --> 22:37.546 [SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately, it wasn't enough to convince the judge leading the inquiry. 22:38.326 --> 22:53.172 [SPEAKER_01]: In a more than 500 page report released in July 2019, Reginald Blanche, a former Chief Judge of the District Court, concluded that the new evidence hadn't created enough reasonable doubt about Kathleen's guilt. 22:54.012 --> 22:57.660 [SPEAKER_01]: But the scientific research didn't stop when the inquiry ended. 22:58.382 --> 23:03.673 [SPEAKER_01]: Researchers continued studying the mutation and eventually tested how it behaved in the lab. 23:04.277 --> 23:20.480 [SPEAKER_01]: and those experiments showed that the mutation changed the way an important protein regulated the heart's electrical activity, producing effects similar to other mutations already known to cause dangerous aridmias and sudden death in young children. 23:21.140 --> 23:29.062 [SPEAKER_01]: In other words, what had been considered only a possible explanation during the first inquiry now had lab evidence 23:35.262 --> 23:40.563 [SPEAKER_01]: For some people, this would end their legal battle, but it wasn't for Kathleen Fullbig. 23:42.163 --> 23:51.185 [SPEAKER_01]: If you've ever tried to find a psychiatrist who takes your insurance and been told to wait months for an appointment or that they're not accepting patients, you're not alone. 23:51.906 --> 23:58.267 [SPEAKER_01]: Talk eye-a-tree makes it easy to see a licensed psychiatrist online who takes your insurance in just a few days. 23:59.636 --> 24:02.957 [SPEAKER_01]: Unlike therapy-only platforms, this is psychiatry. 24:03.397 --> 24:10.038 [SPEAKER_01]: You're seeing a medical provider who can diagnose mental health conditions and prescribe medication when it's appropriate. 24:10.618 --> 24:14.799 [SPEAKER_01]: And because you continue with the same provider, you're not starting over each visit. 24:15.379 --> 24:19.399 [SPEAKER_01]: Your treatment can evolve with you, so you're actually making progress over time. 24:20.160 --> 24:24.720 [SPEAKER_01]: More than 300,000 patients have already found high-quality psychiatric care. 24:28.661 --> 24:34.229 [SPEAKER_01]: to complete the short assessment and get matched with an in-network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. 24:34.830 --> 24:41.379 [SPEAKER_01]: That's T-A-L-K-I-A-T-R-Y dot com slash tails to get matched in minutes. 24:42.220 --> 24:44.544 [SPEAKER_01]: Talk I-A-Tree dot com slash tails. 24:46.188 --> 24:49.469 [SPEAKER_01]: The scientific evidence attracted international attention. 24:50.129 --> 25:03.834 [SPEAKER_01]: In 2021, 90 prominent scientists and medical experts signed a petition calling for Kathleen to be parted, arguing that there were now credible natural explanations for the deaths of her children. 25:04.674 --> 25:10.616 [SPEAKER_01]: And as pressure continued to build, the New South Wales Attorney General ordered a second inquiry in 2022. 25:12.357 --> 25:21.782 [SPEAKER_01]: This time, the inquiry heard directly from experts worldwide, including geneticists, cardiologists, neurologists, and forensic pathologists. 25:22.563 --> 25:37.791 [SPEAKER_01]: They discussed things like all the new research that had been done surrounding the mutation, possible neurological explanations for Patrick's death, and whether the original autopsy findings truly supported the prosecutions theory of smothering. 25:39.114 --> 25:41.995 [SPEAKER_01]: So, what did all of that mean in plain English? 25:43.456 --> 25:50.039 [SPEAKER_01]: Researchers believed Sarah and Laura had inherited that extremely rare genetic mutation from Kathleen. 25:50.699 --> 25:57.903 [SPEAKER_01]: One that could interfere with the heart's electrical rhythm and cause it to suddenly beat dangerously fast or irregularly. 25:58.863 --> 26:02.005 [SPEAKER_01]: Both girls were also sick shortly before they died. 26:02.465 --> 26:04.286 [SPEAKER_01]: Sarah had a respiratory infection 26:07.274 --> 26:09.135 [SPEAKER_01]: or inflammation of the heart muscle. 26:09.995 --> 26:13.717 [SPEAKER_01]: She had also been given medication containing pseudo-affidrine. 26:15.038 --> 26:23.262 [SPEAKER_01]: So experts believed those additional stresses could have triggered a fatal heart rhythm in children who were already genetically vulnerable. 26:24.602 --> 26:27.764 [SPEAKER_01]: The new evidence involving the boys was less definitive. 26:29.182 --> 26:38.094 [SPEAKER_01]: I mentioned earlier that Caleb and Patrick carried rare variations in a different gene called BSN, which plays a role in the nervous system. 26:38.835 --> 26:46.285 [SPEAKER_01]: But no one could say with any reasonable degree of scientific or medical certainty that those variants caused their deaths. 26:47.066 --> 26:58.730 [SPEAKER_01]: However, many of the experts believed that Patrick might have suffered from an underlying neurological disorder that no one understood when Kathleen was put on trial in 2003. 26:59.431 --> 27:07.114 [SPEAKER_01]: And when it comes to Caleb's death, most experts seem to believe it could have been a legitimate case of sudden infant death syndrome. 27:08.234 --> 27:12.644 [SPEAKER_01]: But the second inquiry didn't only reconsider the medical and genetic evidence. 27:13.325 --> 27:19.078 [SPEAKER_01]: It also took another look at Kathleen's Diaries, the other major pillar of the prosecution's case. 27:20.507 --> 27:38.950 [SPEAKER_01]: This time, psychologists and psychiatrists examined the entries within the broader context of her life, including the trauma of losing her mom as a baby, the deaths of her own four children, and the depression, grief, and feelings of inadequacy she experienced as a mother. 27:40.170 --> 27:43.951 [SPEAKER_01]: Their evidence supported a very different interpretation of her words. 27:44.711 --> 27:46.311 [SPEAKER_01]: Rather than confessing to murder, 27:50.783 --> 27:52.883 [SPEAKER_01]: something grieving parents are known to do. 27:54.664 --> 28:04.486 [SPEAKER_01]: After considering that evidence, Thomas Bathurst said he was unable to accept the idea that Kathleen had been anything other than a caring mother to her children. 28:05.366 --> 28:10.007 [SPEAKER_01]: So now, both major pillars of the original case were beginning to collapse. 28:10.747 --> 28:18.589 [SPEAKER_01]: The deaths had credible natural explanations, and the diaries could no longer be confidently interpreted as admissions of guilt. 28:19.970 --> 28:27.436 [SPEAKER_01]: Essentially, the experts weren't claiming that they could reconstruct every child's final moments with absolute certainty. 28:28.116 --> 28:40.386 [SPEAKER_01]: They were saying there were credible medical explanations for these deaths, and once that was true, the prosecutions argument that four deaths in one family could only mean murder began to fall apart. 28:48.645 --> 28:59.778 [SPEAKER_01]: The man leading the inquiry, former Chief Justice Thomas Bathurst, informed New South Wales Attorney General Michael Daily that he had reached a conclusion based on all the evidence. 29:00.699 --> 29:05.165 [SPEAKER_01]: There was reasonable doubt about Kathleen's guilt in the deaths of all four children. 29:06.768 --> 29:14.452 [SPEAKER_01]: Based on those findings, daily recommended that the governor grant Kathleen an unconditional part in, and the governor agreed. 29:15.092 --> 29:24.777 [SPEAKER_01]: So on June 5th, 2023, after spending 20 years behind bars, 55-year-old Kathleen Folbig walked out of prison a free woman. 29:26.225 --> 29:28.627 [SPEAKER_01]: but a pardon didn't erase her convictions. 29:29.147 --> 29:34.490 [SPEAKER_01]: That would require one more legal step, and that final step came six months later. 29:35.571 --> 29:41.995 [SPEAKER_01]: After the inquiry released its full report, the case was referred to the New South Wales Court of Criminal Appeal. 29:42.815 --> 29:49.259 [SPEAKER_01]: Then, on December 14th, 2023, the court formally quashed every one of her convictions. 29:50.440 --> 29:53.542 [SPEAKER_01]: This was much more than a pardon or an early release. 29:54.319 --> 30:01.226 [SPEAKER_01]: The guilty verdicts that had followed Kathleen for two decades were officially overturned, legally clearing her name. 30:03.088 --> 30:05.931 [SPEAKER_01]: Legally speaking, her name had finally been cleared. 30:06.912 --> 30:10.055 [SPEAKER_01]: But the court of public opinion was far more complicated. 30:11.885 --> 30:20.573 [SPEAKER_01]: After so many years of headlines portraying her as Australia's worst female serial killer, some people remained convinced that she was guilty. 30:21.194 --> 30:25.658 [SPEAKER_01]: Even after the scientific evidence emerged and her convictions were overturned. 30:26.776 --> 30:27.916 [SPEAKER_01]: that included Craig. 30:28.876 --> 30:33.137 [SPEAKER_01]: He never publicly accepted that the children had died from natural causes. 30:33.878 --> 30:42.880 [SPEAKER_01]: And after Kathleen's convictions were quashed, his attorney called for a new trial, arguing that the evidence should be placed before another jury. 30:44.120 --> 30:52.962 [SPEAKER_01]: So while the justice system no longer considered her a convicted murderer, she knew there would always be people who questioned her innocence. 30:54.208 --> 30:57.490 [SPEAKER_01]: but she also had people in her life who never doubted her. 30:58.670 --> 31:03.773 [SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps none more fiercely than her long-time childhood friend, Tracy Chapman. 31:04.274 --> 31:06.775 [SPEAKER_01]: A name you heard much earlier in the episode. 31:08.339 --> 31:17.622 [SPEAKER_01]: For more than 20 years, Tracy stood beside Kathleen, advocated for her case, and promised her that they would somehow find a way to bring her home. 31:18.402 --> 31:27.846 [SPEAKER_01]: And when she finally walked out of prison, Tracy was there to help her begin the overwhelming process of rebuilding a life that had been taken away from her. 31:28.646 --> 31:33.808 [SPEAKER_01]: Because even though Kathleen was finally free and eventually cleared in the eyes of the law, 31:34.508 --> 31:40.597 [SPEAKER_01]: She could never get back the four children she had lost or the 20 years she had spent behind bars. 31:41.639 --> 31:44.383 [SPEAKER_01]: And that may be the most important lesson from this case. 31:45.866 --> 31:51.029 [SPEAKER_01]: Forensic science is often treated as if it can provide a single definitive answer. 31:51.629 --> 31:53.930 [SPEAKER_01]: But science is constantly evolving. 31:53.950 --> 32:04.195 [SPEAKER_01]: A medical finding that couldn't be explained in 1989, or even in 2003, might be understood very differently decades later. 32:04.976 --> 32:11.099 [SPEAKER_01]: When Kathleen was put on trial, there was no physical evidence proving that her children had been smothered. 32:11.799 --> 32:19.150 [SPEAKER_01]: Instead, the absence of a clear natural explanation was used to support the theory that they had been murdered. 32:19.851 --> 32:25.299 [SPEAKER_01]: But unexplained doesn't mean unnatural, and rare doesn't mean impossible. 32:26.581 --> 32:35.965 [SPEAKER_01]: Years later, advances in genetic testing revealed something no pathologist, police officer, attorney, or juror could have known at the time. 32:36.785 --> 32:43.928 [SPEAKER_01]: Members of the same family can share an extraordinarily rare vulnerability capable of causing sudden death. 32:44.528 --> 32:49.350 [SPEAKER_01]: The science didn't change what happened to Caleb, Patrick, Sarah, and Laura. 32:50.130 --> 32:53.651 [SPEAKER_01]: It changed what we understood about what may have happened to them. 32:55.796 --> 33:05.506 [SPEAKER_01]: Kathleen's case is a powerful reminder that forensic evidence should never be forced to provide certainty when certainty simply doesn't exist. 33:06.247 --> 33:13.875 [SPEAKER_01]: Because when assumptions are allowed to fill the gaps left behind by science, the consequences can last for decades. 33:15.897 --> 33:19.280 [SPEAKER_01]: Kathleen full-big lost all four of her children. 33:19.300 --> 33:26.725 [SPEAKER_01]: Then she lost 20 years of her freedom because the world couldn't understand how those children had died. 33:27.446 --> 33:38.955 [SPEAKER_01]: And although nothing can return the time or the family she lost, science finally gave her something she had spent two decades fighting for, reasonable doubt. 33:40.619 --> 33:45.703 [SPEAKER_01]: to share your thoughts on this week's story, follow forensic tales on social media. 33:46.424 --> 33:54.311 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you'd like to support this independent, one-woman podcast, you can join us on Patreon for as little as $3 a month. 33:54.972 --> 34:02.078 [SPEAKER_01]: Patreon members receive new episodes early and ad-free, along with monthly full-length bonus episodes. 34:02.698 --> 34:07.643 [SPEAKER_01]: Your support directly helps fund the show's research, production, and editing. 34:08.283 --> 34:12.201 [SPEAKER_01]: You can learn more at patreon.com slash forensic tales. 34:14.010 --> 34:16.872 [SPEAKER_01]: Forensic Tales is a Rockefeller audio production. 34:17.513 --> 34:20.635 [SPEAKER_01]: The show is written and produced by me, Courtney Fredwell. 34:21.396 --> 34:29.723 [SPEAKER_01]: If you'd like to support the show and help fund research, production, and editing, you can do so with a small monthly contribution on Patreon. 34:30.604 --> 34:36.529 [SPEAKER_01]: Patreon supporters get early access to ad free episodes and exclusive bonus content. 34:37.029 --> 34:41.093 [SPEAKER_01]: You can learn more at patreon.com slash Forensic Tales. 34:41.993 --> 34:47.838 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much to this week's newest supporters on Patreon, Angie J and FaithZee. 34:48.479 --> 34:54.023 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you enjoy the show, leaving a positive rating or review, really helps others discover it. 34:54.724 --> 34:59.187 [SPEAKER_01]: For a full list of sources used in this episode, visit forensictails.com. 35:00.929 --> 35:03.431 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening and I'll see you next week. 35:04.332 --> 35:08.155 [SPEAKER_01]: Until then, remember, not all stories have happy endings.