WEBVTT 00:03.041 --> 00:07.363 [SPEAKER_00]: This episode continues directly from the first part of Debbie Connor's story. 00:08.084 --> 00:12.086 [SPEAKER_00]: If you haven't listened to episode one yet, take a moment to hear that first. 00:12.746 --> 00:15.307 [SPEAKER_00]: It gives you the full context for the search ahead. 00:16.028 --> 00:20.290 [SPEAKER_00]: When you're ready, come back here, and we'll pick up the story together. 00:22.751 --> 00:23.472 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back. 00:24.782 --> 00:31.647 [SPEAKER_00]: In the previous episode, we learned who Debbie was before she became the victim in an unsolved murder investigation. 00:32.467 --> 00:41.133 [SPEAKER_00]: We followed her from her childhood in my hometown of Pilot Rock Oregon, through the relationships and changes that shaped her adult life. 00:43.335 --> 00:49.099 [SPEAKER_00]: We also examined the night of May 12th, 1990, when Debbie went to Frasu's restaurant in 00:54.401 --> 01:00.305 [SPEAKER_00]: After Ron's estranged wife entered the bar, he decided he could not stay any longer and wanted to leave. 01:01.026 --> 01:06.890 [SPEAKER_00]: Debbie wanted to stay in continued partying, so Ron left while Debbie remained behind with friends. 01:07.991 --> 01:15.536 [SPEAKER_00]: As the bar closed, witnesses gave conflicting accounts of where they last saw Debbie and who she may have been with. 01:16.477 --> 01:21.620 [SPEAKER_00]: Debbie told more than one person that she already had a ride. 01:22.421 --> 01:32.307 [SPEAKER_00]: Then, at approximately 235 that morning, she called her twin brother and asked if she could stay at the Connor family home in Stanfield. 01:33.107 --> 01:36.469 [SPEAKER_00]: He agreed and left the door unlocked for her. 01:37.450 --> 01:40.452 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is where our story continues. 01:46.873 --> 01:52.614 [SPEAKER_00]: Tonight we follow the search for Debbie from the morning she failed to arrive at her family's home in Stanfield. 01:53.314 --> 02:01.796 [SPEAKER_00]: Will examine Ron Slatt and skip Conor's efforts to find her, the conflicting information investigators were forced to sort through. 02:02.796 --> 02:07.937 [SPEAKER_00]: And the 12 days of uncertainty that followed Debbie's final known phone call. 02:08.717 --> 02:11.118 [SPEAKER_00]: For the family none of that was apparent yet. 02:11.938 --> 02:18.829 [SPEAKER_00]: There was no search, no police report, and no reason to think the night had become a case. 02:19.570 --> 02:25.300 [SPEAKER_00]: There was only a house in Stanfield and a sister who was expected to arrive before morning. 02:40.738 --> 02:47.667 [SPEAKER_00]: When morning came, but Debbie never arrived, there wasn't necessarily a reason to panic. 02:48.708 --> 02:53.174 [SPEAKER_00]: Debbie was an adult, and there were plenty of innocent explanations. 02:54.275 --> 02:56.358 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe she had decided to stay with friends? 02:57.588 --> 03:01.731 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe whoever had offered her a ride took her somewhere else for the night. 03:02.392 --> 03:07.315 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe she simply changed her plans and intended to come by later that day. 03:08.256 --> 03:12.319 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing about her absence, at least during those first few hours. 03:13.160 --> 03:17.263 [SPEAKER_00]: Automatically suggested that something terrible had happened. 03:18.183 --> 03:24.188 [SPEAKER_00]: The problem was that no one knew which explanation if any was the right one. 03:25.262 --> 03:29.164 [SPEAKER_00]: No one knew where Debbie had placed that 235 AM phone call. 03:29.784 --> 03:31.605 [SPEAKER_00]: No one knew who was standing with her. 03:32.345 --> 03:39.549 [SPEAKER_00]: No one knew who had agreed to give her a ride, where they had gone, or why Debbie never reached the Connor family home in Stanfield. 03:40.309 --> 03:50.774 [SPEAKER_00]: Those questions, simple as they seemed that morning, would eventually become some of the most important unanswered questions in Debbie Connor's case. 03:52.024 --> 03:57.248 [SPEAKER_00]: As Sunday morning turned into Sunday afternoon, Debbie still hadn't arrived in Stanfield. 03:57.909 --> 04:04.214 [SPEAKER_00]: The hours continued passing with no phone call, no visit, and no explanation. 04:05.115 --> 04:09.638 [SPEAKER_00]: By Sunday evening, concern was beginning to replace optimism. 04:10.519 --> 04:16.360 [SPEAKER_00]: Debbie's absence no longer felt like someone who had simply stayed out later than expected. 04:17.461 --> 04:18.721 [SPEAKER_00]: Something didn't seem right. 04:19.221 --> 04:21.242 [SPEAKER_00]: Still, no one knew what had happened. 04:21.742 --> 04:38.005 [SPEAKER_00]: Not David, not Ron, not Debbie's parents, and certainly not investigators who had no reason yet to believe they were standing at the beginning of what would become one of Eastern Oregon's most enduring unsolved 04:40.626 --> 04:44.572 [SPEAKER_00]: As Sunday came to an end, no one was preparing for the worst. 04:45.153 --> 04:47.898 [SPEAKER_00]: They were simply waiting for Debbie to come home. 04:50.068 --> 04:55.511 [SPEAKER_00]: Within a few hours, Ron's lap began realizing something wasn't right. 04:56.292 --> 05:00.695 [SPEAKER_00]: According to Ron, Debbie's disappearance was immediately out of character. 05:01.495 --> 05:10.841 [SPEAKER_00]: He described Debbie as being very attached to him, explaining that whenever he was home from work, she was almost always with him. 05:11.862 --> 05:15.864 [SPEAKER_00]: For Debbie to spend the night somewhere without calling him or showing up, 05:20.132 --> 05:29.143 [SPEAKER_00]: In the interview I had with him, Ron said that when he woke up and she was not home, he knew something was badly wrong. 05:30.144 --> 05:33.207 [SPEAKER_00]: At first he hoped there was a simple explanation. 05:33.868 --> 05:39.855 [SPEAKER_00]: But as the hours passed, each call became another attempt to make the night make sense. 05:40.776 --> 05:45.360 [SPEAKER_00]: Ron told me that he started calling everyone he could think of that same day. 05:46.081 --> 05:56.650 [SPEAKER_00]: Friends, family, and people who had been at the bar of the night before, every person might have an answer, none of them could tell him where Debbie had gone. 05:57.631 --> 06:02.955 [SPEAKER_00]: Those conversations produced another fragment of the night, but no answer. 06:03.976 --> 06:08.881 [SPEAKER_00]: The more Ron called, the less clear, Debbie's final movements became. 06:09.702 --> 06:12.785 [SPEAKER_00]: Witnesses remembered seeing her in different places. 06:13.286 --> 06:15.528 [SPEAKER_00]: Some believe she was still inside the bar. 06:16.109 --> 06:18.651 [SPEAKER_00]: Others remembered her outside near a pickup. 06:19.993 --> 06:23.817 [SPEAKER_00]: Some recalled seeing her around other vehicles entirely. 06:24.878 --> 06:32.386 [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone seemed to remember a different piece of the night, but no one could explain what happened after Debbie's phone call to David. 06:33.387 --> 06:38.052 [SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, Debbie's family was beginning to realize something was wrong as well. 06:39.010 --> 06:43.791 [SPEAKER_00]: During the interview, I had with Debbie's mother, she remembered that she and skip. 06:44.191 --> 06:52.894 [SPEAKER_00]: Debbie's father had been in happiness caring for skip's mother when David contacted them to say Debbie had not come home. 06:53.694 --> 06:56.355 [SPEAKER_00]: That phone call brought skip into the search. 06:57.035 --> 07:06.558 [SPEAKER_00]: From that point forward, he and Ron would spend the coming days trying to answer the same question everyone else was asking, where was Debbie? 07:07.710 --> 07:15.854 [SPEAKER_00]: Monday morning only deepened those concerns, Debbie failed to report for work and never contacted her employer. 07:16.854 --> 07:21.336 [SPEAKER_00]: Something co-workers described as completely out of character. 07:22.257 --> 07:29.980 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever hope remained that she had simply spent the night with friends and forgotten a call was beginning to fade. 07:30.860 --> 07:36.143 [SPEAKER_00]: The people who knew Debbie best were no longer just waiting for her to walk through the 07:37.468 --> 07:40.429 [SPEAKER_00]: They were starting to wonder why she had not. 07:42.730 --> 07:46.352 [SPEAKER_00]: Pretty quickly, Ron realized it was time to ask for help. 07:47.373 --> 07:59.898 [SPEAKER_00]: After spending hours calling friends, family, and anyone who might know where Debbie had gone, Ron drove to the Oregon State Police Office in McNary to report her missing. 08:01.159 --> 08:17.161 [SPEAKER_00]: Ron said he was told that Debbie hadn't been gone long enough for a missing person report to be taken, and that because she had last been seen in Hermiston, the matter would have to be handled by the Hermiston Police Department. 08:18.382 --> 08:27.826 [SPEAKER_00]: by Tuesday morning May 15th, Detective Michael Markham of the Hermiston Police Department officially documented Debbie's disappearance. 08:28.767 --> 08:35.350 [SPEAKER_00]: Ron explained that Debbie had last been seen after the bar closed during the early morning hours of May 13th. 08:35.990 --> 08:43.614 [SPEAKER_00]: He described what she had been wearing that night, including her black last chance to have her jacket embroidered with the named Deb. 08:44.434 --> 08:49.376 [SPEAKER_00]: dark pants, brown cowboy boots, and the shirt she had worn to the bar. 08:50.337 --> 09:02.202 [SPEAKER_00]: Ron told Markham that Debbie had planned to leave with him, but chose to remain at the bar after his estranged wife arrived, and that he believed friends would make sure she got home safely. 09:03.082 --> 09:08.205 [SPEAKER_00]: By that point, Debbie had also missed work without contacting her employer. 09:09.125 --> 09:16.829 [SPEAKER_00]: Detective Markham entered Debbie into state and national missing person databases as an endangered missing person. 09:17.650 --> 09:25.615 [SPEAKER_00]: He began identifying and interviewing the people who had been at the bar in an effort to determine what happened after she left the bar. 09:26.735 --> 09:29.397 [SPEAKER_00]: At this stage investigators weren't looking 09:31.698 --> 09:37.882 [SPEAKER_00]: they were trying to locate a woman who had failed to come home after a night out with friends. 09:38.843 --> 09:47.969 [SPEAKER_00]: They had no crime scene, no eyewitness to a crime, no abandoned vehicle, and no confirmed destination. 09:49.130 --> 09:53.093 [SPEAKER_00]: Only a woman who had seemingly vanished after leaving the bar. 09:55.667 --> 09:59.610 [SPEAKER_00]: Filing the missing person report was not the end of the search. 10:00.371 --> 10:09.398 [SPEAKER_00]: If anything, it marked the point where Ron and Debbie's father, Skip Connor, became even more determined to find answers themselves. 10:10.399 --> 10:17.264 [SPEAKER_00]: Debbie's mother remembered that after learning Debbie had not come home, Skip immediately joined the search. 10:18.005 --> 10:23.489 [SPEAKER_00]: From that point forward, he and Ron spent the coming days trying to piece together what had 10:24.690 --> 10:26.671 [SPEAKER_00]: after Debbie left the bar that night. 10:27.591 --> 10:29.592 [SPEAKER_00]: They were not trained investigators. 10:29.952 --> 10:34.474 [SPEAKER_00]: They were two men trying to find someone they loved before it was too late. 10:35.434 --> 10:40.296 [SPEAKER_00]: When talking to me, Ron said he never thought of that effort as extraordinary. 10:41.057 --> 10:46.439 [SPEAKER_00]: To him, it was simply what you did when a person you loved was missing. 10:47.559 --> 10:53.581 [SPEAKER_00]: As Hermiston police began interviewing witnesses, Ron and Skip started doing their own legwork. 10:54.301 --> 11:00.282 [SPEAKER_00]: They spoke with Debbie's friends, co-workers, and people who had been at the bar that Saturday night. 11:01.203 --> 11:13.026 [SPEAKER_00]: They made missing person posters, followed rumors, revisited conversations, and tried to turn fragments of memory into names, vehicles, and places. 11:14.306 --> 11:26.011 [SPEAKER_00]: Skip described making a map of where people had been sitting in the bar, alongside the names of men he was trying to account for, as he and Ron worked through conflicting stories. 11:26.992 --> 11:35.176 [SPEAKER_00]: In later reporting, Skip said he believed that map accounted for all but the final 10 to 15 minutes of Debbie's night. 11:36.116 --> 11:40.038 [SPEAKER_00]: The map was his reconstruction, not an official timeline. 11:40.818 --> 11:55.629 [SPEAKER_00]: and they did not answer what happened in those remaining minutes, but they show how far he and Ron had gone and trying to account for every person and every gap before detectives could resolve it. 11:56.710 --> 12:04.819 [SPEAKER_00]: In my conversations with Debbie's mother, I had asked about this map, and I saw a small smile come across her face. 12:05.560 --> 12:10.325 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it was her remembering her late husband's determination to find their daughter. 12:11.406 --> 12:17.093 [SPEAKER_00]: But she told me that after Skip had died, and she moved into a nursing home. 12:18.454 --> 12:22.438 [SPEAKER_00]: much of skip stuff was packed up and put into storage. 12:23.518 --> 12:26.441 [SPEAKER_00]: She said that she wouldn't know where to start looking. 12:28.850 --> 12:33.671 [SPEAKER_00]: Newspaper accounts show that Debbie's friends were building a wider public search too. 12:34.412 --> 12:40.113 [SPEAKER_00]: Flyers were posted across Hermiston, the Tri-Cities, and surrounding communities. 12:41.214 --> 12:48.156 [SPEAKER_00]: Somewhere handed to truck drivers leaving town, in the hope that Debbie's photograph might travel beyond the immediate area. 12:49.116 --> 12:51.458 [SPEAKER_00]: Friends helped make and distribute them. 12:52.239 --> 12:55.382 [SPEAKER_00]: Their efforts still did not produce a clear account. 12:56.063 --> 12:58.685 [SPEAKER_00]: Every answer seemed to create another question. 13:00.252 --> 13:03.055 [SPEAKER_00]: Some people remember Debbie outside near a pickup. 13:03.916 --> 13:07.679 [SPEAKER_00]: Others remembered her inside the bar shortly before closing. 13:08.400 --> 13:18.509 [SPEAKER_00]: One witness told police that she saw Debbie at Rosie's near a friend's vehicle, speaking with two unidentified men in a small pickup with a trailer. 13:19.310 --> 13:31.516 [SPEAKER_00]: Neither man was identified, new names and vehicle descriptions kept surfacing, but they did not point to one confirmed vehicle or one confirmed group of men. 13:32.456 --> 13:38.679 [SPEAKER_00]: They pointed to a night full of possibilities that investigators could not yet sort out. 13:39.900 --> 13:42.441 [SPEAKER_00]: One tip coming from Ron and Skip referred 13:46.723 --> 14:00.635 [SPEAKER_00]: A handwritten Hermiston police tipnote dated May 17th recorded information that Estrada had been at the bar and may have seen Debbie in an S10 pickup with another man on the night she disappeared. 14:01.575 --> 14:06.239 [SPEAKER_00]: The report did not establish that Estrada's information was accurate. 14:07.400 --> 14:14.924 [SPEAKER_00]: It did not identify the driver, and it did not establish that Debbie had actually entered that vehicle. 14:15.745 --> 14:21.208 [SPEAKER_00]: But it gave Ron, skip, and investigators another name to pursue. 14:22.148 --> 14:24.109 [SPEAKER_00]: Other leads were equally frustrating. 14:25.210 --> 14:36.036 [SPEAKER_00]: a taxi driver reported making two late-night trips from the bar, and police received a possible pilot rock lead, but neither was tied to Debbie. 14:36.836 --> 14:43.960 [SPEAKER_00]: The names and leads kept accumulating, but no one could show where she had gone after her phone call. 14:44.761 --> 14:46.482 [SPEAKER_00]: No conclusion had emerged. 14:47.402 --> 14:54.386 [SPEAKER_00]: Ron told me that he grew increasingly frustrated with what he believed was a lack of urgency. 14:55.187 --> 15:05.973 [SPEAKER_00]: He had learned that detective Michael Markham, the only detective assigned to Hermiston police, was preparing to leave on vacation in the middle of the investigation. 15:07.203 --> 15:14.686 [SPEAKER_00]: Whether you agree with Ron's assessment or not, it helps explain the urgency he felt as the first week ended. 15:15.607 --> 15:19.168 [SPEAKER_00]: The search had produced leads, but no answer. 15:20.069 --> 15:26.472 [SPEAKER_00]: Then, on May 19th, it produced the first reported piece of physical evidence. 15:27.852 --> 15:28.793 [SPEAKER_00]: Debbie's jacket. 15:30.990 --> 15:40.114 [SPEAKER_00]: It began with an ordinary trip to the Hermiston Safeway, a local husband and wife were shopping when they noticed one of Debbie's missing person flyers. 15:40.934 --> 15:44.396 [SPEAKER_00]: The wife was wearing a black last chance to have her jacket. 15:45.016 --> 15:48.118 [SPEAKER_00]: The same jacket they had found six days earlier. 15:48.878 --> 15:52.720 [SPEAKER_00]: They already knew the jacket had the name Deb on it. 15:53.460 --> 15:59.383 [SPEAKER_00]: But seeing Debbie's face on that flyer gave the name a meaning it had not had before. 16:00.844 --> 16:07.773 [SPEAKER_00]: Six days earlier, the couple had been driving toward cold springs reservoir when they took a wrong turn. 16:08.554 --> 16:11.077 [SPEAKER_00]: They came across the jacket lying on the ground. 16:11.718 --> 16:14.441 [SPEAKER_00]: They described it as a nice jacket. 16:15.432 --> 16:23.997 [SPEAKER_00]: clean, and as though it had been freshly placed there, that was why they took it with them and continued on their way. 16:24.938 --> 16:31.182 [SPEAKER_00]: Now standing in the safe way, they realized the jacket could belong to the missing woman on the flyer. 16:32.183 --> 16:37.226 [SPEAKER_00]: They turned it over to police and Ron and Skip identified it as debbies. 16:38.562 --> 16:57.473 [SPEAKER_00]: For the first time since Debbie disappeared, the search had something tangible, not another rumor, not another conflicting witness statement, a real piece of physical evidence, and for locals, or anyone who wants to picture exactly where it was found? 16:58.233 --> 17:07.238 [SPEAKER_00]: The jacket was lying in the gravel parking area near the electrical substation just off south Edwards Road near East Loop Road. 17:08.218 --> 17:10.079 [SPEAKER_00]: It was not near Frasus. 17:10.640 --> 17:12.881 [SPEAKER_00]: It was not even in Hermiston for that matter. 17:13.861 --> 17:20.045 [SPEAKER_00]: South Edwards is a secluded road east of town surrounded by fields and dirt roads. 17:20.785 --> 17:25.607 [SPEAKER_00]: This was not a busy roadside or a place people would casually pass through. 17:26.768 --> 17:39.857 [SPEAKER_00]: Until then, nearly every question had centered on the bar, who Debbie had talked to, which pick up she had been standing beside, and whether anyone had offered her a ride. 17:40.778 --> 17:49.804 [SPEAKER_00]: Now the road where the jacket had been found became part of the search, and drew detectives and the family's attention toward cold springs reservoir. 17:54.134 --> 18:01.803 [SPEAKER_00]: The very next day, Sunday, May 20th, Ron and Skip organize the largest search since Debbie disappeared. 18:02.744 --> 18:13.497 [SPEAKER_00]: Family members, friends, and volunteers searched along South Edwards Road, other nearby roads, and portions of the Cold Springs Reservoir area. 18:14.358 --> 18:19.081 [SPEAKER_00]: Unlike the previous week, this was not a search built only on rumors. 18:19.662 --> 18:32.551 [SPEAKER_00]: Volunteers checked fence lines, ditches, canal banks and roadside, hoping Debbie had left behind something, anything that might explain where she had gone after leaving the bar. 18:33.855 --> 18:41.218 [SPEAKER_00]: Ron remembered in a conversation with me that someone had come in from the road and told him something had been found. 18:42.219 --> 18:46.461 [SPEAKER_00]: He left the others and drove out alone to see it. 18:47.561 --> 18:55.985 [SPEAKER_00]: He said the clothing he encountered there was Debbie's pants, and as he continued down the road, he found her boots. 18:56.905 --> 19:01.933 [SPEAKER_00]: Ron also said the shoreline search left him torn between hope and dread. 19:02.654 --> 19:10.886 [SPEAKER_00]: He wanted to find something that could lead him to Debbie, but he feared that he might find something he never wanted to see. 19:12.067 --> 19:17.974 [SPEAKER_00]: In our conversation, he described the entire search as a complete nightmare. 19:18.795 --> 19:25.842 [SPEAKER_00]: He told me that he was drinking heavily to try and cope with what was happening and was just a complete wreck. 19:26.683 --> 19:30.367 [SPEAKER_00]: Some have criticized his drinking and behavior while on those searches. 19:31.228 --> 19:37.232 [SPEAKER_00]: The truth is that the vast majority of us have never been in a situation like that. 19:38.233 --> 19:46.019 [SPEAKER_00]: I can only imagine, but I don't think I would be in any better shape than Ron was, if I were in his shoes. 19:48.300 --> 19:57.347 [SPEAKER_00]: newspaper accounts from the search described roughly 35 to 40 people, walking side by side along the cold springs reservoir shoreline. 19:58.028 --> 20:00.530 [SPEAKER_00]: They combed the edge of the water and found nothing. 20:00.910 --> 20:06.515 [SPEAKER_00]: At the time, no one knew whether the reservoir had anything to do with Debbie's disappearance. 20:07.335 --> 20:12.299 [SPEAKER_00]: The record of the clothing recoveries was not a simple chronological sequence. 20:18.878 --> 20:21.985 [SPEAKER_00]: pants and cowboy boots were recovered May 20th. 20:23.248 --> 20:27.879 [SPEAKER_00]: A later official summary placed a shirt along the same quarter on May 24th. 20:29.648 --> 20:35.909 [SPEAKER_00]: That timeline would matter, as investigators tried to understand how the items had reached the road. 20:36.930 --> 20:44.552 [SPEAKER_00]: Skip told police that the fishermen who found the pants gave them to Ron, who retained them until police collected them. 20:45.552 --> 20:50.513 [SPEAKER_00]: Before police collected the pants, they had passed through civilian hands. 20:51.413 --> 20:54.294 [SPEAKER_00]: No one involved was trying to compromise evidence. 20:55.062 --> 21:03.072 [SPEAKER_00]: They were trying to find Debbie, but investigators still had to account for the clothing's handling before it reached law enforcement. 21:06.013 --> 21:10.814 [SPEAKER_00]: But Ron didn't look at the clothing merely as a list of items or recovery dates. 21:11.174 --> 21:13.555 [SPEAKER_00]: He looked at the pattern of where they had been found. 21:14.275 --> 21:21.657 [SPEAKER_00]: Ron remembered that the clothing sites were on the east side of South Edward's Road, extending Norse toward Cold Springs Reservoir. 21:22.537 --> 21:27.118 [SPEAKER_00]: For a vehicle traveling north, the east side would have been the passenger side. 21:28.244 --> 21:29.705 [SPEAKER_00]: Ron believed that mattered. 21:30.586 --> 21:35.069 [SPEAKER_00]: He recalled a sequence he described as boots, then shirt, then pants. 21:35.890 --> 21:45.418 [SPEAKER_00]: To him, it looked as if Debbie's clothing might have been removed and discarded from a northbound vehicle, peace by peace. 21:46.378 --> 21:49.581 [SPEAKER_00]: Most likely thrown out by someone in the passenger seat. 21:51.177 --> 21:55.241 [SPEAKER_00]: Ron first expressed the northbound vehicle idea during the search. 21:56.341 --> 22:07.251 [SPEAKER_00]: He said he began considering it, as he encountered the clothing, then continued working through the order and location of the items in the hours and days afterward. 22:07.971 --> 22:15.077 [SPEAKER_00]: It's important to remember that this was only a very early theory, not a witness account of what happened. 22:16.010 --> 22:26.995 [SPEAKER_00]: No witness reported seeing Debbie's clothes removed or thrown from a vehicle, and the locations alone did not establish that a sexual assault occurred. 22:27.635 --> 22:30.777 [SPEAKER_00]: But Ron said the pattern fed a terrible fear. 22:31.417 --> 22:37.220 [SPEAKER_00]: He imagined Debbie and Ivan being raped while her clothes were removed and thrown out the window. 22:38.200 --> 22:45.604 [SPEAKER_00]: He was clear that this was what he feared may have happened, as he tried to make sense of the evidence. 22:46.385 --> 22:53.189 [SPEAKER_00]: Ron also heard that Skip believed some clothing may have appeared in location searchers had already checked. 22:53.829 --> 22:56.491 [SPEAKER_00]: That remained a belief, not proof. 22:57.351 --> 23:04.896 [SPEAKER_00]: No record establishes when each item was placed, whether earlier searches covered the exact recovery locations, 23:05.656 --> 23:07.138 [SPEAKER_00]: or who put the clothing there. 23:07.959 --> 23:11.124 [SPEAKER_00]: The clothing did not explain what had happened to Debbie. 23:11.845 --> 23:21.599 [SPEAKER_00]: It only made the unanswered questions feel more urgent, and it left the volunteers with a growing dread about what they might find. 23:22.440 --> 23:24.483 [SPEAKER_00]: but the investigation was changing. 23:25.144 --> 23:32.995 [SPEAKER_00]: With every piece of Debbie's clothing that was recovered, it became harder to believe she had simply walked away. 23:33.856 --> 23:37.642 [SPEAKER_00]: And as the search grew larger, so did the investigation. 23:39.795 --> 23:45.120 [SPEAKER_00]: By Monday morning, May 21st, Debbie had been missing for more than a week. 23:45.740 --> 23:52.847 [SPEAKER_00]: What had begun as a local missing person investigation was becoming something much larger. 23:53.928 --> 24:00.914 [SPEAKER_00]: That morning, Hermiston Detective Michael Markham requested assistance from the Oregon State Police. 24:02.077 --> 24:06.761 [SPEAKER_00]: Detective Rex Anderson was assigned to assist with the disappearance investigation. 24:07.922 --> 24:15.830 [SPEAKER_00]: For the first time since Debbie disappeared, investigators from two agencies were now officially working the case together. 24:16.951 --> 24:20.854 [SPEAKER_00]: Anderson and Markham conducted a recorded interview with Ron. 24:21.935 --> 24:24.880 [SPEAKER_00]: Ron repeated the central account he had given police. 24:25.540 --> 24:28.785 [SPEAKER_00]: He and Debbie had lived together for about three years. 24:29.426 --> 24:34.112 [SPEAKER_00]: They had parted ways after she wanted to remain at the bar while he wanted to go home. 24:34.513 --> 24:35.534 [SPEAKER_00]: He left alone. 24:36.890 --> 24:40.893 [SPEAKER_00]: and he said he never saw her again after leaving the bar. 24:41.854 --> 24:47.018 [SPEAKER_00]: Investigators had an obvious responsibility to examine Ron closely. 24:47.859 --> 24:49.621 [SPEAKER_00]: He was Debbie's live-in boyfriend. 24:50.221 --> 24:59.489 [SPEAKER_00]: Had been with her that night, was the person she had initially planned to leave with, had reported her missing, and had been part of the search from the beginning. 25:00.737 --> 25:09.941 [SPEAKER_00]: in almost every missing person in investigation, detectives begin by closely examining the people closest to the missing person. 25:11.001 --> 25:12.542 [SPEAKER_00]: Debbie's case was no different. 25:13.607 --> 25:17.368 [SPEAKER_00]: that didn't mean investigators believed Ron was responsible. 25:18.089 --> 25:21.570 [SPEAKER_00]: It meant they had to determine whether he could be ruled out. 25:22.591 --> 25:36.176 [SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, detectives documented the clothing locations along South Edward's Road and considered competing explanations for how the items got there, including Ron's northbound vehicle theory. 25:37.308 --> 25:41.430 [SPEAKER_00]: At this stage, those explanations remained theories. 25:42.191 --> 25:45.213 [SPEAKER_00]: No witness could explain how the clothing had gotten there. 25:45.973 --> 25:50.956 [SPEAKER_00]: The following day, investigators would take another step toward an answer. 25:52.463 --> 25:57.404 [SPEAKER_00]: By Tuesday, May 22nd, Debbie had been missing for nine days. 25:58.404 --> 26:05.226 [SPEAKER_00]: Oregon State Police was now assisting the investigation, but the central problem remained the same. 26:06.046 --> 26:08.606 [SPEAKER_00]: Detectives had more leads than answers. 26:09.846 --> 26:16.628 [SPEAKER_00]: Some information came from people who had been at the bar and some came from people who had heard something from someone else. 26:17.775 --> 26:19.758 [SPEAKER_00]: investigators documented both. 26:20.420 --> 26:29.996 [SPEAKER_00]: But as the case widened, the distinction between first-hand information and rumor became more important than ever. 26:31.265 --> 26:37.831 [SPEAKER_00]: that same day, Ron participated in a polygraph examination at the Hermiston Police Department. 26:38.752 --> 26:52.964 [SPEAKER_00]: He answered no, when asked whether he had physically hurt Debbie, whether he had caused her injuries, whether he could show investigators where she was, and whether he knew for certain what had happened to her. 26:54.005 --> 27:01.792 [SPEAKER_00]: The response to the question about physically hurting Debbie was inconclusive, but not a finding of deception. 27:02.713 --> 27:16.225 [SPEAKER_00]: The examiner noted during the polygraph examination that Ron was highly emotional whenever he spoke about Debbie and her disappearance, which may have affected his ability to respond clearly. 27:17.216 --> 27:21.219 [SPEAKER_00]: The other three relevant questions did not indicate deception. 27:22.240 --> 27:29.626 [SPEAKER_00]: It is important to note that a polygraph result alone cannot determine responsibility. 27:30.767 --> 27:35.110 [SPEAKER_00]: Ultimately, the results did not establish that Ron had harmed Debbie. 27:35.791 --> 27:37.432 [SPEAKER_00]: He had passed the polygraph. 27:40.287 --> 27:49.570 [SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, investigators continued pursuing leads from the bar, a bartender who was beginning her own shift told police she had seen Debbie crying in the bathroom. 27:50.450 --> 27:59.893 [SPEAKER_00]: About 15 minutes later, the bartender said, an unidentified man grabbed Debbie by the arm, spun her around, and pinned her against a hallway wall. 28:00.513 --> 28:02.453 [SPEAKER_00]: She could not hear what was being said. 28:02.973 --> 28:07.815 [SPEAKER_00]: She could not read their lips, and in that report, she did not know the man. 28:08.795 --> 28:14.697 [SPEAKER_00]: The police made a sketch of this man, but at the time nobody could identify who the man was. 28:15.677 --> 28:17.738 [SPEAKER_00]: Other leads proved less substantial. 28:18.358 --> 28:25.220 [SPEAKER_00]: Police received a rumor that Debbie had left in a blue Chevrolet or Ford pickup with a red interior. 28:25.901 --> 28:32.323 [SPEAKER_00]: But the information was relayed as a rumor, not a direct eyewitness identification. 28:33.430 --> 28:41.292 [SPEAKER_00]: Investigators documented it and continued looking into it, as they did with countless other reports during those 12 days. 28:42.013 --> 28:52.776 [SPEAKER_00]: Then, on May 22nd, investigators received a report that what appeared to be a body had been seen floating in cold springs reservoir. 28:53.616 --> 28:55.056 [SPEAKER_00]: They searched the area. 28:55.757 --> 28:57.777 [SPEAKER_00]: The object was not a person. 28:58.277 --> 28:59.658 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a dead calf. 29:00.638 --> 29:05.643 [SPEAKER_00]: The false alarm offered no answers, and the search continued. 29:06.684 --> 29:12.669 [SPEAKER_00]: Over the next two days, detectives continued interviewing witnesses and following leads. 29:13.290 --> 29:18.034 [SPEAKER_00]: The clothing discoveries continued to shape the search alongside Edward's Road. 29:18.734 --> 29:24.039 [SPEAKER_00]: But none of the new information told detectives where Debbie was. 29:25.020 --> 29:31.989 [SPEAKER_00]: By the evening of May 24th, nearly two weeks had passed since Debbie's final phone call to David. 29:32.770 --> 29:38.236 [SPEAKER_00]: The search had not stopped, but hope was becoming harder to hold on to. 29:39.137 --> 29:43.543 [SPEAKER_00]: The following morning, everything would change. 29:45.831 --> 29:53.159 [SPEAKER_00]: By the morning of Friday, May 25, 1990, Debbie Conner had been missing for nearly two weeks. 29:53.720 --> 30:00.548 [SPEAKER_00]: The search had reached roads, canal banks, open fields, and the cold springs reservoir area. 30:01.328 --> 30:03.631 [SPEAKER_00]: Still, no one knew where Debbie was. 30:04.652 --> 30:12.937 [SPEAKER_00]: At about 11.45 that morning, two people near Cold Springs Reservoir noticed something floating south of the Reservoir tower. 30:13.637 --> 30:16.919 [SPEAKER_00]: From where they stood, they could not tell what it was. 30:17.900 --> 30:21.082 [SPEAKER_00]: One of them returned to town and called Hermiston Police. 30:22.042 --> 30:26.626 [SPEAKER_00]: At 1230pm Detective Rex Anderson arrived at the reservoir. 30:27.406 --> 30:31.289 [SPEAKER_00]: Looking through field glasses, he could not identify the object. 30:32.310 --> 30:35.153 [SPEAKER_00]: At first, he thought it resembled a dead calf. 30:35.613 --> 30:39.996 [SPEAKER_00]: He and another detective had located two days earlier. 30:41.097 --> 30:42.540 [SPEAKER_00]: Anderson called for a boat. 30:43.562 --> 30:46.547 [SPEAKER_00]: At 105 pm, a lieutenant arrived. 30:47.229 --> 30:49.633 [SPEAKER_00]: Anderson used the boat to approach the object. 30:50.394 --> 30:51.556 [SPEAKER_00]: It was not the calf. 30:52.398 --> 30:53.881 [SPEAKER_00]: It was the body of a woman. 30:56.324 --> 31:05.688 [SPEAKER_00]: Detective Anderson estimated that the body was floating 100 to 150 yards from the west end of Cold Springs Reservoir, where the dam was. 31:06.289 --> 31:08.350 [SPEAKER_00]: The woman was basing toward the west bank. 31:09.230 --> 31:12.372 [SPEAKER_00]: Her legs appeared to be tied together with a weight attached. 31:13.192 --> 31:14.393 [SPEAKER_00]: The woman was nude. 31:15.153 --> 31:19.015 [SPEAKER_00]: Anderson wrote that she matched Debbie Conner's physical description. 31:19.876 --> 31:25.819 [SPEAKER_00]: About five feet two inches tall, 105 pounds with light brown hair. 31:26.759 --> 31:32.503 [SPEAKER_00]: Anderson secured a rope around the woman's shoulders and brought her toward shore. 31:33.163 --> 31:39.806 [SPEAKER_00]: The body remained in the water, while additional personnel arrived and the scene was examined. 31:40.947 --> 31:49.389 [SPEAKER_00]: At 251pm, a crime detection laboratory investigator joined state and local officers at the reservoir dam. 31:50.369 --> 31:54.750 [SPEAKER_00]: The investigator photographed the scene and recorded what was visible in the water. 31:55.630 --> 32:06.052 [SPEAKER_00]: The family driven search that had begun with flyers, phone calls, and roadside searches was now a formal multi-agency investigation. 32:06.952 --> 32:10.815 [SPEAKER_00]: The question was no longer only whether Debbie would be found. 32:11.875 --> 32:16.559 [SPEAKER_00]: Investigators now had to determine what had happened to the woman in the water. 32:17.279 --> 32:20.181 [SPEAKER_00]: The body showed significant decomposition. 32:20.842 --> 32:25.005 [SPEAKER_00]: The skin on the woman's back was covered with underwater vegetation. 32:26.072 --> 32:31.437 [SPEAKER_00]: A yellow rope, placed by detective Anderson, anchored the body near the west shore. 32:32.378 --> 32:39.684 [SPEAKER_00]: Investigators observed that her ankles had been bound with insulated wire, and that a lifting weight had been attached. 32:40.365 --> 32:43.147 [SPEAKER_00]: Officers searched the north and south shorelines. 32:43.708 --> 32:46.590 [SPEAKER_00]: No additional evidence was found during those searches. 32:47.391 --> 32:51.275 [SPEAKER_00]: At 330pm, a doctor arrived and examined the body. 32:52.076 --> 32:57.020 [SPEAKER_00]: Shortly after 430, Bern's mortuary removed the woman's body from the water. 32:58.121 --> 33:07.650 [SPEAKER_00]: Anderson placed evidence tape across the zipper of the body bag, initialed it, and followed the transport fan to Good Shepherd Hospital in Hermiston. 33:08.411 --> 33:12.454 [SPEAKER_00]: For nearly 12 days, Debbie's family had searched for answers. 33:13.155 --> 33:15.136 [SPEAKER_00]: The discovery ended the search. 33:15.837 --> 33:19.120 [SPEAKER_00]: But the most difficult part of the case was only beginning. 33:21.281 --> 33:25.244 [SPEAKER_00]: Investigators strongly suspected they had found Debbie Connor. 33:26.045 --> 33:28.247 [SPEAKER_00]: But suspicion was not enough. 33:29.127 --> 33:32.690 [SPEAKER_00]: They still needed to identify the woman formally. 33:33.731 --> 33:36.854 [SPEAKER_00]: At 5 p.m., the body was x-rayed at the hospital. 33:37.694 --> 33:41.856 [SPEAKER_00]: Investigators also compared the body with Debbie's known medical history. 33:42.556 --> 33:48.539 [SPEAKER_00]: The woman had a scar on the right side of her abdomen, consistent with a prior kidney removal. 33:49.239 --> 33:51.460 [SPEAKER_00]: She had a mole on her right cheek. 33:52.440 --> 33:58.143 [SPEAKER_00]: Debbie Connor had undergone a kidney removal, and had the same distinctive facial mole. 33:59.203 --> 34:10.909 [SPEAKER_00]: At 6.05 PM, the Crime Lab assisted officers in sealing the deceased in a body bag with a plastic tie wrap and evidence tape. 34:11.149 --> 34:18.273 [SPEAKER_00]: 35 minutes later, Detective Markham delivered 11 dental x-rays from Debbie Conner's file. 34:18.873 --> 34:23.915 [SPEAKER_00]: Investigators then compare the dental x-rays with the hospital films. 34:24.716 --> 34:26.557 [SPEAKER_00]: The comparison was consistent. 34:27.677 --> 34:31.279 [SPEAKER_00]: The woman recovered from cold springs reservoir was Debbie Connor. 34:32.300 --> 34:36.863 [SPEAKER_00]: After 12 days of searching, Debbie had finally been found. 34:37.803 --> 34:40.465 [SPEAKER_00]: For her family, the uncertainty was over. 34:41.105 --> 34:48.750 [SPEAKER_00]: They no longer had to wonder where she was, or whether she might still come walking through the front door. 34:49.611 --> 34:53.813 [SPEAKER_00]: That was the answer they had feared, but never wanted. 34:54.774 --> 35:00.539 [SPEAKER_00]: But the answers they had spent nearly two weeks searching for still had not come. 35:01.400 --> 35:05.864 [SPEAKER_00]: Investigators did not know who had offered Debbie a ride. 35:06.524 --> 35:10.368 [SPEAKER_00]: They did not know when she entered Cold Springs Reservoir. 35:11.535 --> 35:17.579 [SPEAKER_00]: They did not know how clothing believed to be hers came to be found along south Edward's road. 35:18.720 --> 35:26.545 [SPEAKER_00]: And they did not know who had tied the wire around her ankles, attached the weight or left her in the reservoir. 35:27.385 --> 35:35.590 [SPEAKER_00]: With Debbie now formally identified, the case had changed from a missing person search into a death investigation. 35:41.174 --> 35:47.616 [SPEAKER_00]: They said actively it's remained, even though no one was in custody and no arrest was imminent. 35:48.716 --> 35:57.218 [SPEAKER_00]: Investigators were focused on people who knew Debbie, but no person had been publicly identified as a suspect. 35:57.958 --> 36:00.779 [SPEAKER_00]: The investigation was only beginning. 36:02.923 --> 36:17.403 [SPEAKER_00]: For 12 days, Debbie's family, friends, and volunteers searched roads, canal banks, and the shoreline of cold springs reservoir, trying to find something that would lead them back to her. 36:18.495 --> 36:26.198 [SPEAKER_00]: They followed rumors, handed out flyers, and held into the possibility that Debbie might still come home. 36:27.259 --> 36:31.060 [SPEAKER_00]: On May 25th, that search ended at the reservoir. 36:31.880 --> 36:38.683 [SPEAKER_00]: More than three decades later, the reports and witnesses remain, and the questions have not gone away. 36:39.684 --> 36:44.826 [SPEAKER_00]: The search for the truth was only beginning, someone knows what happened to Debbie Connor. 36:45.686 --> 36:50.413 [SPEAKER_00]: In the next episode, we move deeper into the homicide investigation. 36:51.174 --> 37:01.129 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll go through the autopsy results and cause of death, all of the lab testing, and what happened within Debbie's family immediately after she was found. 37:02.202 --> 37:13.612 [SPEAKER_00]: will also examine groundbreaking information that for more than three decades had remained locked away inside the Oregon State police case file. 37:14.533 --> 37:20.738 [SPEAKER_00]: Until I began going through Debbie's files, that information had never been shared publicly. 37:21.539 --> 37:26.886 [SPEAKER_00]: Debbie's full case file is more than 700 pages long and spans decades. 37:27.447 --> 37:32.773 [SPEAKER_00]: There are also many people connected to this case whom I have had to personally interview. 37:33.494 --> 37:39.542 [SPEAKER_00]: It is an incredibly complex case and one that takes time to unravel carefully. 37:40.625 --> 37:50.931 [SPEAKER_00]: I know people are ready for the next episode, but while I'm writing, new information can come in that changes how an episode has to be told. 37:51.972 --> 37:54.734 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to make sure I put this together carefully. 37:55.494 --> 38:04.140 [SPEAKER_00]: In a way that is clear, respectful to Debbie and her family, and keeps you engaged without losing the details that matter. 38:05.240 --> 38:12.106 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited to share what comes next, so hang on because this is going to be a wild ride. 38:12.946 --> 38:21.894 [SPEAKER_00]: You can also follow the Grimes Files on all social media platforms plus YouTube at the Grimes Files. 38:22.955 --> 38:26.758 [SPEAKER_00]: Following and sharing the show helps keep Debbie's case visible. 38:27.638 --> 38:31.842 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone has information that could help bring answers to Debbie Conner's case. 38:33.252 --> 38:35.773 [SPEAKER_00]: I am asking that person to come forward. 38:36.493 --> 38:39.554 [SPEAKER_00]: Debbie's mother is now 92 years old. 38:40.114 --> 38:45.895 [SPEAKER_00]: After 36 years of waiting, she and the rest of Debbie's family deserve answers. 38:46.955 --> 39:01.639 [SPEAKER_00]: If you have information about Debbie Conner's case, and you would rather speak privately, or prefer that your name not be made public, please reach out to me directly through the Grimes files. 39:02.748 --> 39:06.715 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing you share with myself is made public without your consent. 39:07.376 --> 39:12.645 [SPEAKER_00]: You can also share information with the Debbie Conner deserves Justice Facebook page. 39:13.681 --> 39:21.223 [SPEAKER_00]: and last, but definitely not least, please contact Oregon State Police Detective Amy Ford. 39:22.283 --> 39:25.984 [SPEAKER_00]: Any detail, no matter how small it may seem, could matter. 39:26.964 --> 39:33.586 [SPEAKER_00]: If you have a tip for an OSP-led cold case, the Oregon State Police Cold Case Unit also accepts 39:41.247 --> 39:48.172 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Joey Grimes and you've been listening to the Grimes files, stay safe, stay curious. 39:48.933 --> 39:56.218 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you see something, say something, good night, and I'll see you in the next episode.