WEBVTT 00:00.746 --> 00:03.595 [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, I'm Professor Beckstra, and I'm Professor Erick Bronson. 00:03.957 --> 00:05.682 [SPEAKER_03]: In this, this prison news. 00:19.578 --> 00:48.491 [SPEAKER_00]: But on your new ship, it's because it's time to get up off your chair And even news without a case, it is the news Wash your wedding news, because it's the present news I hope it is welcome to present news 00:49.417 --> 00:50.177 [SPEAKER_04]: Roy. 00:50.818 --> 00:51.118 [SPEAKER_03]: Roy. 00:51.158 --> 00:51.518 [SPEAKER_03]: Roy. 00:52.359 --> 00:52.699 [SPEAKER_03]: Roy. 00:53.539 --> 00:54.920 [SPEAKER_03]: Happy to be on their ship today. 00:56.901 --> 00:58.102 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm happy that you're on the ship. 00:58.322 --> 01:10.009 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm happy that the one behind the wheel of the ship is the producer, the bro dozer, Brit, the co-host with the co-most. 01:10.689 --> 01:11.750 [SPEAKER_02]: Your, maybe. 01:12.691 --> 01:14.792 [SPEAKER_03]: Does that make him make him the captain of our ship? 01:15.533 --> 01:18.834 [SPEAKER_03]: since he's at the wheel? 01:18.974 --> 01:19.854 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so. 01:20.054 --> 01:22.654 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that makes me like engineering or something. 01:22.734 --> 01:33.997 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm, you know, if you've ever watched any like a star trek, like the next generation, I'm either like maybe a Jordi, but not like creepy towards women. 01:34.017 --> 01:37.137 [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe like the transporter chief. 01:37.237 --> 01:38.318 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh Brian. 01:38.538 --> 01:38.898 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 01:41.488 --> 01:43.970 [SPEAKER_04]: I'll have you know, I don't think O'Brien's a next generation, right? 01:44.010 --> 01:45.311 [SPEAKER_04]: He's a great night guy. 01:45.451 --> 01:59.300 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, he was in next generation as the transporter chief He's in DS9 is the chief engineer Okay, excuse me, are you are you are you are you are you are you questioning my knowledge on your track 02:05.965 --> 02:10.070 [SPEAKER_04]: Me, who watches one Star Trek episode 20 years ago, expert of Star Trek. 02:13.054 --> 02:15.677 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, congratulations on your knowledge. 02:21.030 --> 02:25.993 [SPEAKER_04]: And I would argue that Eric and I are incapable of steering the ship. 02:26.213 --> 02:30.937 [SPEAKER_04]: So, if that's the case, like we could be co-capted. 02:31.137 --> 02:36.800 [SPEAKER_02]: Once again, the captain doesn't steer the ship. 02:36.840 --> 02:40.203 [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, the captain, yeah, that's an awesome job. 02:40.223 --> 02:42.384 [SPEAKER_03]: I think all the decisions about where the ship goes, but yeah. 02:42.684 --> 02:45.066 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm definitely like the Helmsman steer the ship. 02:46.225 --> 02:47.345 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm definitely below deck. 02:47.565 --> 02:49.426 [SPEAKER_03]: You don't let a creature like me out on deck. 02:49.886 --> 02:52.327 [SPEAKER_03]: That's like, that's like, that's like a lot of storage. 02:52.847 --> 02:54.087 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he's like the cargo. 02:54.348 --> 02:55.248 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right. 02:55.528 --> 02:56.888 [SPEAKER_02]: We keep him in the build room. 02:57.929 --> 02:59.029 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, right, there you go. 02:59.269 --> 03:01.910 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm the cargo that I should run the manual pumps. 03:02.950 --> 03:05.591 [SPEAKER_04]: How is storage like the cargo hold? 03:05.731 --> 03:07.632 [SPEAKER_04]: Steerage, it sounds like steering. 03:08.052 --> 03:08.432 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 03:09.072 --> 03:10.212 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know. 03:10.232 --> 03:11.533 [SPEAKER_04]: Why are we calling it that? 03:11.893 --> 03:14.514 [SPEAKER_04]: It shouldn't have the word steering there, unless that's where we keep steer. 03:16.577 --> 03:17.438 [SPEAKER_04]: Which I suppose we could. 03:18.178 --> 03:21.781 [SPEAKER_02]: We certainly could if we're transporting cow cattle. 03:22.161 --> 03:24.283 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but how many like cows are ship? 03:24.303 --> 03:25.884 [SPEAKER_03]: We can call it whatever the hell we want, right? 03:26.625 --> 03:27.185 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's true. 03:28.927 --> 03:30.108 [SPEAKER_04]: Mm. 03:30.428 --> 03:32.229 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, let's not commit a little bit. 03:32.249 --> 03:34.111 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, welcome to a show about prisons. 03:34.671 --> 03:35.272 [SPEAKER_02]: This is prison. 03:35.292 --> 03:37.954 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 03:37.974 --> 03:38.374 [SPEAKER_04]: Prison now. 03:38.414 --> 03:40.056 [SPEAKER_04]: We'll talk about prisons. 03:40.076 --> 03:41.897 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'm gonna prison this. 03:41.937 --> 03:45.200 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's stop talking about ships and start talking about the news, Eric. 03:45.973 --> 03:47.314 [SPEAKER_04]: What's news in the news? 03:48.874 --> 03:59.939 [SPEAKER_03]: And we got, always have some news in the news with Hollywood and famous cases, maybe. 04:00.259 --> 04:08.222 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is a throwback to an old case and individuals hoping to get to the parole board. 04:08.322 --> 04:14.585 [SPEAKER_03]: So out of California, Eric and Lyon Menenda is eligible to face parole board again in spring. 04:16.003 --> 04:25.471 [SPEAKER_03]: So from the Associated Press, Olga Rodriguez has an article on Eric and Lyle Menendez. 04:25.871 --> 04:31.316 [SPEAKER_03]: Are up eligible to go before the parole board again next March. 04:32.276 --> 04:33.737 [SPEAKER_03]: A little bit earlier than expected. 04:33.757 --> 04:35.879 [SPEAKER_03]: It's about a year and a half earlier than expected. 04:35.899 --> 04:38.161 [SPEAKER_03]: The brothers were originally sentenced in 1996 to life. 04:39.848 --> 05:04.007 [SPEAKER_03]: In prison for the 1989 fatal shooting of their father, Jose Menendez, and Mother Kiddy Menendez, in their Beverly Hills mansion, a Los Angeles judge, reduced their sentence to 50 years to life in May of 2025, making them eligible for all because they were under the age of 26 when they committed their crimes. 05:05.816 --> 05:08.139 [SPEAKER_04]: They were nigh for all what's that a little bit. 05:08.439 --> 05:15.127 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I these this is a blind spot for me like I know the Nintendo's brothers are a big thing and Those are year two ago. 05:15.187 --> 05:21.694 [SPEAKER_04]: They had I think that's like released like a documentary series and fictionalized series about the Nintendo's brothers. 05:21.794 --> 05:23.036 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't really know much about them 05:23.615 --> 05:26.916 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, can you tell me a little about like what was the motive? 05:27.016 --> 05:34.438 [SPEAKER_03]: Like why did they kill their parents and maybe a lot of love right a little enough to be honest I don't think we know about the real motive behind it. 05:34.458 --> 05:45.542 [SPEAKER_03]: That you know, there were a lot of a theories from popular culture that came up with why they did it, you know, had to do with money and had to do with, you know, 05:46.663 --> 05:47.903 [SPEAKER_03]: their parents being overbearing. 05:47.943 --> 05:54.885 [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever it might be, nobody really pinned it down because they've never said what the real mode of was. 05:56.526 --> 06:02.527 [SPEAKER_03]: But the reason why it was so damn big and that fascinated people is because they were from Beverly Hills. 06:02.788 --> 06:07.589 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, when everybody's society thinks that, oh, if you're rich, you have no problems. 06:07.729 --> 06:09.369 [SPEAKER_03]: And oh, rich people don't commit crime. 06:09.429 --> 06:11.090 [SPEAKER_03]: Rich people commit tons of crime. 06:11.110 --> 06:12.630 [SPEAKER_03]: This is that normally they get away with it. 06:13.090 --> 06:14.591 [SPEAKER_03]: And for a long time they did, 06:15.635 --> 06:21.536 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, if you think about it, they committed the murder in 89 and they didn't get sentenced until 96. 06:21.616 --> 06:42.000 [SPEAKER_03]: So they were, for a while there, they were, you know, they were not the target of the investigation and then once they were, because they had access to such resources, they had really, they had a really good defense team working, but again, the, the, the evidence was pretty overwhelming that they did it. 06:43.825 --> 06:52.630 [SPEAKER_03]: So I really don't know why other than that, other than rich people in Beverly Hills got murdered by their kids, I don't know why it was so damn big. 06:53.851 --> 07:02.836 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I guess that's big enough, and especially of the time, it is something that's shocking to the conscience at any time you hear about somebody killing their parents. 07:03.456 --> 07:05.317 [SPEAKER_04]: And two brothers, there's like twin brothers, right? 07:06.058 --> 07:06.238 [SPEAKER_04]: Right. 07:07.099 --> 07:08.300 [SPEAKER_04]: Are they handsome guys or something? 07:08.360 --> 07:10.541 [SPEAKER_04]: Is there like a mystique to them? 07:10.581 --> 07:28.170 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think that's part of it that, you know, they're rich and they're good looking guys and had, you know, lots of resources, they figure out they're not going to hurt, they're not going to hurt their parents because their parents are their, you know, their money bank. 07:28.570 --> 07:30.091 [SPEAKER_03]: And why, why would you? 07:30.711 --> 07:32.092 [SPEAKER_03]: But, um, 07:33.557 --> 07:38.639 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, I don't know why it's, you know, this wasn't long after the O.J. 07:38.679 --> 07:47.562 [SPEAKER_03]: trial ended, so maybe we were just starving for another free case at a California where unexpected rich person does something awful? 07:49.223 --> 07:50.563 [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, how about that? 07:51.344 --> 07:53.844 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know, you never know, right? 07:54.145 --> 07:55.705 [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, I don't know what's gonna hit. 07:55.765 --> 07:56.766 [SPEAKER_04]: The news is hungry. 07:57.366 --> 07:57.706 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 08:01.268 --> 08:19.403 [SPEAKER_03]: So they were denied parole in August of 25 when the California board of parole said that Lil Menenda is still displayed anti-social personality traits like deception and that Eric Menenda's broke prison rules by repeatedly using a cell phone. 08:20.079 --> 08:28.381 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no, these are, that's the worst infraction and one guy lied and the other guy called contacts outside of a prison. 08:29.502 --> 08:31.662 [SPEAKER_04]: These are like, this is standard garden fair shit. 08:31.702 --> 08:33.003 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, where are you? 08:33.043 --> 08:33.603 [SPEAKER_04]: Why do we care? 08:35.983 --> 08:40.865 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, they just weren't listening to our, our orders. 08:44.771 --> 08:58.080 [SPEAKER_03]: The California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation allows eligible prisoners to seek earlier parole if there is a change in circumstances or new information indicating the person may be suitable for parole. 08:58.860 --> 09:03.223 [SPEAKER_03]: The Department didn't provide details about why the brothers were granted earlier hearing. 09:03.811 --> 09:06.352 [SPEAKER_03]: the spokesperson for the Department of Kyle. 09:06.392 --> 09:19.178 [SPEAKER_03]: But abuse said, the board of parole hearings conducted standard administrative reviews and determined that the Menendez Brothers next parole hearing will proceed in 2027. 09:21.039 --> 09:23.780 [SPEAKER_03]: The brothers are turning to climb to comment through a family spokesperson. 09:23.840 --> 09:26.021 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's kind of what we're at right now. 09:27.182 --> 09:28.082 [SPEAKER_04]: Here it goes, your take. 09:28.442 --> 09:29.503 [SPEAKER_04]: Do you think they should get parole? 09:30.882 --> 09:34.964 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, I'm all about second chances, right? 09:35.144 --> 09:52.475 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I would say, if they've, you know, I would love to know what they've been doing while they're locked up, have they been working on themselves, have they been trying to improve themselves, have they taken any anger management classes, you know, what have they been doing while they've been locked up? 09:52.615 --> 09:54.716 [SPEAKER_03]: I would assume since this California they do have, 09:57.293 --> 10:02.618 [SPEAKER_03]: They do have the opportunity to work in some type of rehab, right? 10:02.658 --> 10:05.841 [SPEAKER_03]: They can work on something, you know, maybe they've been in counseling, I don't know. 10:07.602 --> 10:14.769 [SPEAKER_03]: And if they haven't, well, then let them know, hey, here's what you need to be doing before you are seen before the board next time. 10:15.930 --> 10:22.215 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, obviously we think, you know, they've got their GED, they got their heads on straight. 10:24.570 --> 10:29.974 [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, they weren't one of those issues that when they showed up for prison, oh, I don't know how to read it right. 10:30.474 --> 10:37.979 [SPEAKER_03]: And so they had to start from the educational bottom inside the institution and work on getting basic certificates along the way. 10:38.700 --> 10:41.422 [SPEAKER_03]: But there are things available to them that they could have been doing. 10:42.182 --> 10:43.943 [SPEAKER_03]: So I would love to know how they're spending their time. 10:44.564 --> 10:52.990 [SPEAKER_03]: And if they've been doing things that are positive, I would say, hey, let's try and find a way to get them out back in the free society. 10:54.050 --> 11:06.793 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, you know, when I was working in the prison, there were very few inmates that I thought, okay, this person needs to be locked up for life. 11:06.833 --> 11:16.235 [SPEAKER_03]: They, you know, they were very few of them that I felt like, oh, I would not want them in my neighborhood that this person has bad intentions all the time. 11:17.676 --> 11:19.576 [SPEAKER_03]: Most of most of the people I worked with, 11:23.725 --> 11:45.665 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's, you know, they need to be giving those chances, but yeah, yeah, I would I would want to, you know, and based on, based on what they didn't how long ago it was, you know, and you, most murderers commit one major crime and that's it because then they spend their rest of their life in prison. 11:45.705 --> 11:49.589 [SPEAKER_03]: They aren't, they aren't the repeat offenders that we think about, um, 11:50.562 --> 11:56.248 [SPEAKER_03]: that are, you know, dealing or that are trafficking drugs and assaulting people. 11:56.268 --> 11:59.412 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, they don't have extensive records. 11:59.432 --> 12:05.919 [SPEAKER_02]: We definitely know they're not repeat offenders because the committed this murder and were free for seven years afterwards. 12:06.620 --> 12:06.800 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 12:06.820 --> 12:06.940 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 12:09.917 --> 12:13.700 [SPEAKER_04]: And they even after that, they still didn't know how to read and write. 12:13.720 --> 12:19.024 [SPEAKER_04]: They were just like totally failed by the Beverly Hills school system. 12:19.324 --> 12:20.666 [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, I was saying they weren't. 12:21.326 --> 12:22.007 [SPEAKER_03]: They weren't like that. 12:22.027 --> 12:29.012 [SPEAKER_03]: They weren't one of those situations where you know when you When we have inmates that go in who don't don't have the GED, you don't know how to read and write. 12:29.052 --> 12:31.134 [SPEAKER_03]: They immediately are placed into those programs. 12:31.774 --> 12:36.018 [SPEAKER_03]: So they have a laundry list of certificates and things to improve on. 12:39.380 --> 13:02.354 [SPEAKER_02]: you know with brains supposedly no no what do they do both of them are very smart both of them have uh bays from uh uc Irvine and uh one of them went to Princeton for a while but dropped out so yeah there there you know academically someone accomplished at least yeah so then so then my 13:05.008 --> 13:07.769 [SPEAKER_03]: What can they do from there with that point? 13:07.889 --> 13:09.470 [SPEAKER_03]: What have they been improving themselves? 13:09.490 --> 13:10.170 [SPEAKER_03]: What have they been doing? 13:10.190 --> 13:11.230 [SPEAKER_03]: How are they spending their time? 13:11.871 --> 13:20.354 [SPEAKER_03]: Are they doing things like using the cell phones that are coming in illegally and getting in the trouble in other ways? 13:20.614 --> 13:24.316 [SPEAKER_03]: Or are they trying to improve themselves in any ways and participating in programs? 13:26.092 --> 13:44.028 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, with those brains, you would figure, hey, they have the opportunity to help out some other inmates and reading, you know, but going over to a law library and helping them understand their case because, you know, they can read law reviews and get a good understanding of what might help the other inmates, are they doing that? 13:44.088 --> 13:45.970 [SPEAKER_03]: Or are they just sitting in their cell, cause and trouble? 13:48.015 --> 13:48.255 [SPEAKER_04]: truth. 13:48.975 --> 13:50.776 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we don't have a clear picture. 13:50.916 --> 13:53.157 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure that there's been a full work up. 13:53.658 --> 14:03.302 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure they've got a team of attorneys on this working out there trying to spin it and sell their their way to innocence, but I guess it remains to be seen. 14:03.402 --> 14:06.684 [SPEAKER_04]: Is there like a favorite brother that people have like, oh, this is like a cool brother. 14:06.704 --> 14:08.004 [SPEAKER_04]: And this is like the bad boy. 14:08.024 --> 14:10.446 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know. 14:10.606 --> 14:11.046 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know. 14:11.066 --> 14:12.827 [SPEAKER_03]: I think they're both 14:18.151 --> 14:19.073 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's true. 14:19.394 --> 14:20.456 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 14:20.476 --> 14:20.796 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know. 14:20.817 --> 14:21.257 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know. 14:21.598 --> 14:22.500 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know. 14:22.600 --> 14:23.963 [SPEAKER_04]: If we hadn't murdered our parents. 14:24.163 --> 14:24.384 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 14:24.444 --> 14:24.664 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 14:24.744 --> 14:27.149 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if there's one that's considered cuter. 14:28.590 --> 14:54.465 [SPEAKER_02]: uh... you know see a looking looking at this right now uh... eric is definitely the cuter one a younger thank you thank you i appreciate that i normally don't get that bit but i i i so all the listeners heard it here first uh... no alic is definitely the cuter one on the podcast uh... no so so of the two brothers eric and lile lile looks uh... i don't know kind of like john federman which isn't a great look 14:57.466 --> 15:04.772 [SPEAKER_02]: Eric Eric looks he's he's Eric's actually pretty handsome for for when this is taken this is three so 52 years old. 15:04.812 --> 15:14.299 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, he's he's looking good All right, so we got the handsome handsome brother and then Lyle is the the bad boy. 15:15.059 --> 15:16.040 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Lyle. 15:16.380 --> 15:17.581 [SPEAKER_02]: Lyle looks like a skin head. 15:17.601 --> 15:18.842 [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah 15:23.275 --> 15:23.555 [SPEAKER_04]: All right. 15:23.575 --> 15:26.476 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, Minendo's brothers, we wish you well. 15:26.576 --> 15:26.916 [SPEAKER_04]: I guess. 15:26.996 --> 15:28.096 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know why. 15:28.377 --> 15:29.297 [SPEAKER_04]: We hope that you've done the work. 15:29.317 --> 15:30.717 [SPEAKER_03]: No, no way. 15:30.737 --> 15:31.918 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, towards them right now. 15:32.998 --> 15:33.318 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 15:33.398 --> 15:33.578 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 15:33.598 --> 15:33.898 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 15:33.958 --> 15:34.398 [SPEAKER_02]: There's two. 15:34.418 --> 15:34.838 [SPEAKER_02]: We've done there. 15:34.858 --> 15:36.979 [SPEAKER_02]: We hope the best for the rehabilitation. 15:38.700 --> 15:38.840 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 15:38.860 --> 15:39.820 [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you. 15:39.880 --> 15:41.100 [SPEAKER_04]: Good diplomatic way to say it. 15:43.161 --> 15:47.622 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, and there's a good diplomatic way to say thank you to our sponsor, I believe. 15:48.042 --> 15:48.262 [SPEAKER_02]: Roger 15:52.317 --> 15:55.800 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, we'd love for Undertaker Williams University School of Justice Studies. 15:55.840 --> 16:07.990 [SPEAKER_02]: They have so many great schools, with so many great offerings, and degrees, graduates, certificates, post-graduate studies, and just certificates. 16:08.270 --> 16:15.436 [SPEAKER_02]: There's gosh, things, subjects such as public administration, international relations, 16:16.345 --> 16:32.193 [SPEAKER_02]: Sociology, Anthropology, Four-Renzic Science, Political Science, The Big Boys, Over and Criminal Justice, And of course, The Greatest Certificate, The One that keeps on giving 16:45.439 --> 16:46.439 [SPEAKER_03]: No, thank you. 16:46.699 --> 16:49.320 [SPEAKER_03]: And thank you, Roger Williams University School of Justice Studies. 16:49.420 --> 16:50.440 [SPEAKER_02]: And we appreciate you. 16:51.400 --> 16:52.401 [SPEAKER_03]: And we salute you. 16:52.821 --> 16:53.201 [SPEAKER_04]: We do. 16:55.982 --> 16:57.662 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's move on to some other news. 16:58.482 --> 17:00.383 [SPEAKER_04]: This has been reported by Medium. 17:00.643 --> 17:06.264 [SPEAKER_04]: And by Oklahoma Watch, which would also be a good name for like a watch place in America. 17:06.344 --> 17:07.804 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure it is, honestly. 17:07.824 --> 17:12.165 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm sure they're, they're, they're suing the one of them suing the other. 17:12.206 --> 17:13.646 [SPEAKER_02]: That watch company probably. 17:14.562 --> 17:21.767 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the watch company should sue this news website, like, they, they have, they should have them in halfway on the name. 17:21.807 --> 17:24.308 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, what are we supposed to be? 17:24.328 --> 17:26.130 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, Oklahoma clock, that's stupid. 17:26.190 --> 17:27.611 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this is a small clock. 17:27.791 --> 17:36.496 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to drive all this way to get my watch prepared and find out you're printing newspapers or actually know you're just probably an office because it's probably just an online newspaper now. 17:37.437 --> 17:40.219 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, not necessary. 17:41.616 --> 17:52.603 [SPEAKER_04]: So they have reported that Oklahoma Department of Corrections and Mates were found making calls on behalf of a super PAC for Republican candidates. 17:54.444 --> 18:03.229 [SPEAKER_04]: So for a Mates can afford it is it is bad this is one of those things that's bad no matter who you're making calls for. 18:03.289 --> 18:06.651 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just bad don't don't get inmates to do your dirty work. 18:06.732 --> 18:08.753 [SPEAKER_04]: This sucks let me tell you about it. 18:09.622 --> 18:11.384 [SPEAKER_04]: So four inmates came forward to speak with reporters. 18:11.844 --> 18:16.809 [SPEAKER_04]: One, identify themselves as Steve Willbanks, which is a cool name. 18:17.069 --> 18:21.593 [SPEAKER_04]: Oklahoma, Steve Willbanks, the rest of the inmates who came forward wanted to remain anonymous. 18:22.834 --> 18:33.163 [SPEAKER_04]: And what's happened is there's this company called HBW leads, and they partnered with the Oklahoma Department of Corrections to establish several call centers this year. 18:34.349 --> 18:41.679 [SPEAKER_04]: And as of a couple of weeks ago, and August 21st, call centers were active at four state prisons in Oklahoma. 18:43.521 --> 18:48.187 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's got outrage and they've got the tentacles into the people. 18:49.854 --> 18:55.576 [SPEAKER_04]: And in being asked about it, one of the inmates said, they definitely know what they're doing as a no-no. 18:56.056 --> 18:59.197 [SPEAKER_04]: They weren't surveys at all that we were being asked to do. 18:59.657 --> 19:02.138 [SPEAKER_04]: They were campaigning, he said. 19:02.638 --> 19:03.898 [SPEAKER_04]: And he also went, he went out of state. 19:03.918 --> 19:05.939 [SPEAKER_04]: They had just one question at the end of the call. 19:06.619 --> 19:09.120 [SPEAKER_04]: And that question was, do we have your vote for such and such? 19:11.945 --> 19:17.028 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's, it's them telling you like why you should vote for a candidate and then asking do we have your vote for them? 19:17.108 --> 19:18.849 [SPEAKER_04]: Which is not great. 19:19.249 --> 19:23.591 [SPEAKER_04]: And multiple inmates have said, they feel uneasy making these partisan phone calls. 19:23.651 --> 19:27.673 [SPEAKER_04]: Two of the people who came forward said, they'd been in prison for so long. 19:27.693 --> 19:30.115 [SPEAKER_04]: They were not familiar with the names of potential candidates. 19:30.955 --> 19:41.059 [SPEAKER_04]: One of the guys was unsure what MAGA meant, or what a Trump Republican even was, and Steve Wilbanks, and he said, we're talking about the swamp and everything like that. 19:41.399 --> 19:42.479 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't even know what a swamp is. 19:42.619 --> 19:44.660 [SPEAKER_04]: I've been in prison too long to catch up on some of these terms. 19:46.541 --> 19:51.922 [SPEAKER_04]: Do we think he doesn't know what a swamp is or like, he doesn't know what like the political swamp metaphor means? 19:52.423 --> 19:52.683 [SPEAKER_02]: Both. 19:53.143 --> 19:55.684 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, like Oklahoma is not known for swamp. 19:57.197 --> 19:58.077 [SPEAKER_03]: pretty damn dry there. 19:58.837 --> 19:59.357 [SPEAKER_02]: That's true. 20:00.158 --> 20:01.378 [SPEAKER_02]: Eric, have you been through Oklahoma? 20:01.778 --> 20:02.038 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah. 20:02.058 --> 20:03.518 [SPEAKER_03]: I've spent a lot of time in Oklahoma. 20:03.818 --> 20:04.178 [SPEAKER_04]: Facts. 20:04.339 --> 20:04.479 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh. 20:05.739 --> 20:06.079 [SPEAKER_03]: Facts. 20:06.099 --> 20:10.700 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a little bit of land that the wifey owns in Oklahoma. 20:12.100 --> 20:13.500 [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah. 20:15.201 --> 20:16.921 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's a very dry. 20:17.001 --> 20:18.221 [SPEAKER_03]: It's the high plane's desert. 20:20.202 --> 20:20.602 [SPEAKER_04]: Is it pretty? 20:21.852 --> 20:22.653 [SPEAKER_03]: Pretty ugly, yeah? 20:22.673 --> 20:44.036 [SPEAKER_03]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 20:45.395 --> 20:50.917 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, if they want mountains, or they want to see the ocean, obviously we want water. 20:51.077 --> 20:52.538 [SPEAKER_03]: This is not the place for you. 20:53.558 --> 20:57.840 [SPEAKER_03]: It has to, uh, it's one of those things. 20:57.940 --> 20:58.920 [SPEAKER_03]: It has to grow on yet. 21:00.061 --> 21:02.542 [SPEAKER_03]: You have to, you have to learn to appreciate it. 21:02.622 --> 21:05.183 [SPEAKER_03]: It's, it's very unique, very flat. 21:05.683 --> 21:05.983 [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, 21:08.028 --> 21:11.411 [SPEAKER_03]: crazy dry and hot, so okay. 21:11.611 --> 21:13.052 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'll be avoiding that. 21:13.432 --> 21:17.775 [SPEAKER_04]: There's one of those places I've like read and heard a lot of stuff about. 21:18.136 --> 21:18.356 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 21:18.396 --> 21:26.242 [SPEAKER_04]: I've never been, but anyone interested, there's a book called Boom Town I recommend to people who are interested in books. 21:26.262 --> 21:32.767 [SPEAKER_04]: So I love books about like cities and this is a history of Oklahoma and Oklahoma City specifically and I can't recommend that enough. 21:32.887 --> 21:34.808 [SPEAKER_04]: It's such an interesting book that 21:35.749 --> 21:44.174 [SPEAKER_04]: gives you like some of the sociology, some of the economic histories of Oklahoma City and tells you how it got to what it is today and it's fascinating. 21:45.355 --> 21:50.518 [SPEAKER_03]: You know what's interesting is Oklahoma City, you know, the city of Oklahoma City. 21:51.199 --> 21:55.862 [SPEAKER_03]: It is extremely, it is extremely large population, all right. 21:56.422 --> 21:59.443 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, it's huge too because they've annexed so many small towns. 21:59.623 --> 21:59.903 [SPEAKER_04]: Right. 22:00.023 --> 22:00.223 [SPEAKER_04]: Right. 22:00.383 --> 22:00.603 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 22:00.763 --> 22:01.924 [SPEAKER_03]: And so they just keep growing. 22:02.124 --> 22:17.449 [SPEAKER_03]: And there's a lot of people moving there because of, you know, they're, um, there was some opportunities, you know, in terms of decent employment, but I would say it's one of the things that is most unique about it. 22:17.949 --> 22:20.730 [SPEAKER_03]: It's one of those cities that's again very large. 22:23.095 --> 22:30.039 [SPEAKER_03]: But as soon as you get outside city limits, you were back into the country. 22:30.119 --> 22:35.322 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not like the overwhelming majority of cities in the United States where you have suburbs surrounding it. 22:35.542 --> 22:36.542 [SPEAKER_03]: You leave Oklahoma City. 22:36.582 --> 22:39.444 [SPEAKER_03]: You are in ranch and farm territory. 22:40.304 --> 22:42.165 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it goes like city to rural. 22:42.185 --> 22:43.006 [SPEAKER_04]: Like there's no subway. 22:43.046 --> 22:43.606 [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly. 22:44.166 --> 22:46.688 [SPEAKER_03]: Like you said, David, annexed anything that was suburb. 22:49.589 --> 22:50.550 [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know. 22:52.960 --> 22:59.184 [SPEAKER_03]: one of the most unique big cities that I've been to and they're trying hard to create a night life area. 23:01.085 --> 23:11.452 [SPEAKER_03]: They're installed, they built their own riverwalk to try and say, hey, San Antonio is not the only one that's working out for him right now. 23:12.248 --> 23:16.089 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Chicago made one somewhat recently and it is it's beautiful. 23:16.109 --> 23:17.430 [SPEAKER_04]: It seems to be working out fine for them. 23:17.870 --> 23:26.113 [SPEAKER_04]: The river walk is apparently it's a good idea It's a place for people to congregate put shops and restaurants and bars and it's people of a river. 23:26.333 --> 23:26.913 [SPEAKER_04]: They'd love to walk. 23:26.933 --> 23:31.895 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, combine the two river walk There you have it. 23:32.555 --> 23:33.996 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's get back to the article. 23:34.016 --> 23:34.456 [SPEAKER_04]: I focused. 23:35.536 --> 23:36.977 [SPEAKER_04]: So Steve Will Banks 23:38.073 --> 23:48.902 [SPEAKER_04]: When addressing the content of these political calls, he said it was stuff like you don't want to have your kids around creepy such and such or they believe in transgender ideas not protecting your children. 23:49.502 --> 23:53.665 [SPEAKER_04]: Wilcox or Wilbank said it's like whoa, that threw me for a loop there. 23:54.086 --> 24:02.733 [SPEAKER_04]: And despite the concerns around exploitation of inmates, one person said they did not feel co-worst to work at the call center. 24:03.440 --> 24:04.320 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just better money. 24:04.480 --> 24:05.021 [SPEAKER_04]: The end made it. 24:05.101 --> 24:08.142 [SPEAKER_04]: It's the best money on the yard, which I think is coercion. 24:08.282 --> 24:10.523 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think this inmate knows what coercion means. 24:10.743 --> 24:11.383 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, all right. 24:12.504 --> 24:12.724 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 24:13.124 --> 24:17.726 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they'll pay us, they'll pay us a dollar an hour rather than 80 cents an hour. 24:18.466 --> 24:19.186 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 24:19.206 --> 24:20.327 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to work for them. 24:20.547 --> 24:22.648 [SPEAKER_04]: That's coercion when I'm making no money at all. 24:23.930 --> 24:33.797 [SPEAKER_04]: But inmates earn $2 an hour and the company pays the Department of Corrections $10 per inmate hour with eight of those dollars going to Oklahoma Correctional Industries. 24:34.938 --> 24:48.088 [SPEAKER_04]: The political calls were placed on behalf of make liberty win over junior-based super-pact that paid nearly $600,000 to this HBW leads political calling subsidiary called Visible Trends since March. 24:49.089 --> 25:01.954 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, so that was my quite where where were they making calls to where they just calling and around an Oklahoma where they calling over in a Virginia, you know, I have looked at a few articles here and it has not been entirely made clear. 25:02.655 --> 25:10.738 [SPEAKER_04]: They're making political calls, which just period should be a no-no, right right as one of the inmates said it's a no-no. 25:11.565 --> 25:15.587 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, because, you know, Oklahoma is extremely red. 25:15.607 --> 25:19.250 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I can't see them swinging many people's opinions. 25:19.870 --> 25:26.154 [SPEAKER_03]: Oklahoma, you know, Oklahoma was one of those ones but on election night as soon as the polls closed, they go boom. 25:26.754 --> 25:31.197 [SPEAKER_03]: We can call this race because it's Oklahoma and we know they're voting Republican. 25:31.837 --> 25:37.300 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's how I was wondering if they're calling like red states or they calling blue states or swing states. 25:41.204 --> 25:42.656 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, don't have that information, but 25:44.218 --> 25:54.725 [SPEAKER_04]: that the super PACs executive director said the organization was unaware that prison labor was even being used and terminated the contract due to poor performance, apparently. 25:56.427 --> 26:06.434 [SPEAKER_04]: The Department of Corrections declined interview requests and they said in an emailed statement that the calls fell within the contract's description of political polling, which that's not any kind of defense. 26:07.935 --> 26:12.378 [SPEAKER_03]: No, wait, I love it that they dropped it because of poor performance. 26:13.313 --> 26:21.411 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, poor performance like they're what they're doing is called push pulling essentially when the color is like masquerading as a pollster, but they're actually 26:22.682 --> 26:23.803 [SPEAKER_04]: trying to influence voters. 26:23.983 --> 26:31.748 [SPEAKER_04]: I've gotten these calls before where the person will ask you, well, what did you say if this candidate that I think you're interested in? 26:32.168 --> 26:33.910 [SPEAKER_04]: What if I told you their pro life? 26:34.070 --> 26:36.231 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, I don't think that's the case. 26:37.092 --> 26:38.573 [SPEAKER_04]: Whoa, why are you in asking me? 26:38.893 --> 26:41.335 [SPEAKER_04]: Are you, is this like an opposition call? 26:41.355 --> 26:42.996 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, what are you doing? 26:43.616 --> 26:44.056 [SPEAKER_04]: Right. 26:44.076 --> 26:45.217 [SPEAKER_04]: So that's called push polling. 26:45.237 --> 26:46.278 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's essentially what it is. 26:46.418 --> 26:49.320 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's a shitty tactic that you should not be doing 26:52.884 --> 26:54.252 [SPEAKER_04]: slightly pretending to run a full. 26:57.962 --> 27:08.151 [SPEAKER_04]: No Oklahoma candidates have reported paying visible trends this polling company for campaign work during the 2026 election cycle, according to reports that have been filed with the Oklahoma Ethics Commission. 27:08.791 --> 27:16.998 [SPEAKER_04]: And no outside group has reported payments to the company, but of course some organizations have not complied with state reporting requirements. 27:17.018 --> 27:21.522 [SPEAKER_04]: So we don't know who's paying for them is essentially the problem. 27:21.642 --> 27:23.443 [SPEAKER_04]: It's at this moment, 27:28.287 --> 27:29.309 [SPEAKER_04]: So this has happened before. 27:29.970 --> 27:35.898 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not the first time the prison call centers have been established in Oklahoma for political calling or otherwise in 2019. 27:36.339 --> 27:42.267 [SPEAKER_04]: The Intercept published a report detailing direct payments from the Mike Bloombergs presidential campaign. 27:43.128 --> 27:50.273 [SPEAKER_04]: to a third party vendor, operating a call center in Taft of the Taft, Oklahoma. 27:50.393 --> 27:59.699 [SPEAKER_04]: And the campaign for Bloomberg said, we're unaware that we're using prison labor and they sever ties with the company after the reporter brought it up as an ethical complaint. 27:59.879 --> 28:21.610 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, see that's why the whole my they canceled the damn contract because one was well because of the you know blowback from it because you got caught right yeah exactly now because oh well we didn't know they were you they knew well you know full and well that they were going to use that before the whole thing got started uh or second it's so frustrating and and in in 2021 28:26.092 --> 28:53.260 [SPEAKER_04]: prison serving eight life sentences for child sexual abuse succeeded in maintaining obtaining full internet access through a call center job and download a child sexual abuse material from his work computer and so he got two additional life sentences for that offense in 2022 and following this Oklahoma call centers were actually shut down in 2021 but they were never permanently abolished and they just can't slowly sprung back to life I guess 28:55.856 --> 29:08.893 [SPEAKER_04]: but they were never abolished and in 2023 prison officials said oh we we have all these new safeguards to restrict internet access and and then and they said oh we're considering relancing the program and of course it is back and it is. 29:09.705 --> 29:10.626 [SPEAKER_04]: Raring it's ugly head. 29:11.186 --> 29:17.611 [SPEAKER_04]: At my point is like Bloomberg or GOP candidates, whoever you are, don't make political calls. 29:17.891 --> 29:18.172 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 29:18.652 --> 29:18.972 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 29:19.593 --> 29:20.774 [SPEAKER_04]: This is not an image job. 29:20.834 --> 29:21.214 [SPEAKER_04]: Stop it. 29:21.534 --> 29:26.218 [SPEAKER_04]: You should not be using incarcerated people to support political candidates on any behalf. 29:26.438 --> 29:26.838 [SPEAKER_04]: Don't do it. 29:26.938 --> 29:27.119 [SPEAKER_04]: Ever. 29:30.081 --> 29:30.281 [SPEAKER_04]: No. 29:30.301 --> 29:30.361 [SPEAKER_04]: No. 29:30.721 --> 29:32.142 [SPEAKER_04]: It's frustrating that this would happen. 29:32.242 --> 29:37.246 [SPEAKER_04]: It's unethical and even if they're receiving the best pay, give them the best pay for something else. 29:40.248 --> 29:47.191 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, and have to be something that'll benefit society, not make people worse. 29:47.972 --> 29:49.112 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, not, not. 29:49.252 --> 29:53.634 [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, we're trying to get you to vote for our shitty candidate. 29:53.734 --> 29:59.997 [SPEAKER_04]: Any candidate found to be involved with these kind of tactics at all, disqualification. 30:00.337 --> 30:03.979 [SPEAKER_04]: If they know about it, if it's knowingly happening, there's a paper trail. 30:04.399 --> 30:05.099 [SPEAKER_04]: Done, they're out. 30:05.720 --> 30:06.640 [SPEAKER_04]: Establish that as a law. 30:10.367 --> 30:11.308 [SPEAKER_04]: Bruce, what do you think? 30:11.668 --> 30:19.752 [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, yeah, I read this article a couple, like a week or two ago when I came out and I think I sent it to you. 30:20.412 --> 30:22.774 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's, it's infuriating. 30:23.054 --> 30:26.416 [SPEAKER_02]: It's absolutely wild that like someone did this. 30:26.476 --> 30:33.179 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is, it's absolutely wild that the prison officials are offering this as a service. 30:33.219 --> 30:37.021 [SPEAKER_02]: Like whoever is doing that is a corrupt bad person. 30:37.682 --> 30:39.563 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think they know the investigated. 30:40.405 --> 31:00.459 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's exactly, you know, the biggest part of this is you know that, okay, the inmates were doing this, and yeah, they were getting paid probably something a little bit more than the other job, but whatever that apartment of correction in Oklahoma got paid for this, that's, that's the big part of that. 31:00.499 --> 31:02.440 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a one-pointation started at the top. 31:02.967 --> 31:08.251 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to point out, too, that you said that they got paid $10 an hour, right? 31:08.271 --> 31:08.831 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 31:08.992 --> 31:09.312 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 31:09.732 --> 31:11.974 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the inmates got paid $2 an hour. 31:12.034 --> 31:12.694 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 31:13.295 --> 31:18.539 [SPEAKER_02]: And you said that they had been billed within the year, they had been billed $600,000. 31:18.559 --> 31:24.603 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's 60,000 hours, which breaks down to, I don't know, like, because 2,000 hours is a year of work. 31:31.685 --> 32:00.857 [SPEAKER_02]: uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh 32:03.655 --> 32:07.924 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but inmates are cheap labor, so they're incredibly cheap, yeah. 32:07.944 --> 32:11.451 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, this is recognizing, oh, we can't pay people $10 an hour. 32:13.139 --> 32:14.659 [SPEAKER_04]: because people won't go for that. 32:14.719 --> 32:22.181 [SPEAKER_04]: So instead, let's find the cheapest labor that we can get from a prison and get these incarcerated people here. 32:22.201 --> 32:25.441 [SPEAKER_02]: But who in the prison said, yes to this is what I'm wondering. 32:25.662 --> 32:30.022 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, that the Department of Corrections Commissioner needs to be investigated. 32:30.042 --> 32:38.564 [SPEAKER_02]: He does, because this is like, this is obviously, I don't know, like showing a political favoritism in prisons 32:43.594 --> 33:02.249 [SPEAKER_02]: Like that's I don't I don't like any of this this should not be a legal thing I do understand when people like if any of them are like I don't I don't have any idea about political issues I'm not political like especially especially especially especially since all of these people are disenfranchised 33:03.939 --> 33:12.801 [SPEAKER_02]: I think if you, if the state takes away your right to vote, why are they legally allowing you to campaign for people? 33:12.941 --> 33:14.282 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a crazy thing. 33:15.302 --> 33:15.462 [SPEAKER_02]: Yep. 33:16.062 --> 33:19.383 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, let's never see this again. 33:19.863 --> 33:24.445 [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, it's just trust that society will get better. 33:24.565 --> 33:25.525 [SPEAKER_04]: No, absolutely not. 33:28.366 --> 33:32.647 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that was, that's a great hour note to end on. 33:36.508 --> 33:36.908 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 33:37.428 --> 33:39.469 [SPEAKER_03]: Finish the show on a high note, right? 33:39.749 --> 33:44.869 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, if you liked that downward note, please like, write and subscribe wherever you get podcasts. 33:45.910 --> 33:46.170 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 33:46.190 --> 33:47.970 [SPEAKER_04]: Bring it. 33:47.990 --> 33:48.910 [SPEAKER_04]: We appreciate your support. 33:49.790 --> 33:50.410 [SPEAKER_04]: Dear listener. 33:50.710 --> 33:52.651 [SPEAKER_04]: And until next time. 33:54.011 --> 33:54.431 [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you. 33:54.791 --> 33:56.651 [SPEAKER_04]: Roger Williams University School of Justice Studies. 33:57.152 --> 33:57.532 [SPEAKER_02]: And Ian. 33:57.812 --> 33:58.152 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. 34:00.492 --> 34:00.772 [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody. 34:00.792 --> 34:00.872 [SPEAKER_04]: Mmm. 34:00.892 --> 34:01.272 [SPEAKER_04]: Lights out. 34:02.312 --> 34:02.853 [SPEAKER_04]: Lights out. 34:03.033 --> 34:04.593 [SPEAKER_01]: Lights out.