WEBVTT 00:03.365 --> 00:10.669 [SPEAKER_09]: When you sign up for a Gmail account, or an X account, or a Facebook account, they don't charge you anything. 00:11.409 --> 00:19.533 [SPEAKER_09]: They'll let you use their platforms that they've spent billions of dollars creating and developing for as long as you want free of charge. 00:20.314 --> 00:22.315 [SPEAKER_09]: But there's something you all need to understand. 00:23.155 --> 00:27.137 [SPEAKER_09]: If you're not paying for the product, you are the product. 00:27.797 --> 00:34.061 [SPEAKER_09]: They own you, your pictures, your posts, your interests, they own all of it. 00:34.761 --> 00:41.465 [SPEAKER_09]: And if someone at Facebook or Axe or Amazon wants to mess with you or shake you down for money, 00:42.285 --> 00:50.609 [SPEAKER_09]: You're at their mercy, you become their little plaything, and you have zero recourse, actually, less than zero. 00:51.190 --> 01:03.996 [SPEAKER_09]: This kind of thing is happening to thousands of people every day, and no one's really talking about it, but I'm ready to shout it from the rooftops because these kinds of scams need to stop now. 01:13.942 --> 01:22.087 [SPEAKER_09]: I'm Jonathan Walton, and this is Hardcore Khan, episode 7, Big Tech Stortion. 01:27.230 --> 01:32.012 [SPEAKER_04]: In the big cities, skyscrapers of steel pushed higher and higher. 01:32.833 --> 01:35.615 [SPEAKER_04]: People call this the Age of Miracles. 01:38.472 --> 01:45.938 [SPEAKER_09]: The list of incredible, life-changing things invented in the United States of America is impressive and groundbreaking. 01:47.119 --> 01:49.041 [SPEAKER_09]: There's the airplane in 1903. 01:49.101 --> 01:55.065 [SPEAKER_09]: The internet in the 1960s, the iPhone in 2007. 01:55.085 --> 02:03.372 [SPEAKER_03]: A wide-screen iPod with touch controls, a revolutionary mobile phone, and a breakthrough internet communications devices. 02:04.453 --> 02:05.434 [SPEAKER_03]: This is one device. 02:07.491 --> 02:15.495 [SPEAKER_09]: And then, in 2020, American ingenuity rares its innovative head again, with the invention of the bed scrunchie. 02:15.915 --> 02:23.639 [SPEAKER_09]: Tired of wrestling with your sheets every night because they just don't fit right, don't let twisted sheets keep you up all night. 02:23.679 --> 02:26.861 [SPEAKER_09]: The bed scrunchie is one size fits all and works with any mattress. 02:26.981 --> 02:30.563 [SPEAKER_09]: Can you first just introduce yourself tell me who you are and what you do? 02:30.723 --> 02:36.089 [SPEAKER_08]: My name is Jack Nikala and I'm the founder, inventor and CEO of Bed Scrunchy. 02:36.229 --> 02:38.972 [SPEAKER_09]: And what is a bed scrunchy for people who do not know? 02:38.992 --> 02:42.956 [SPEAKER_08]: A bed scrunchy is a very useful invention. 02:42.996 --> 02:46.860 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm a tonney with that because I invented it, but I mean, I'm going based on the reviews. 02:46.880 --> 02:48.642 [SPEAKER_08]: People say it's the best thing since sliced bread. 02:52.573 --> 03:01.998 [SPEAKER_08]: So the best crunchy keeps your sheets nice and taught on the bed, you know, when you wake up in the middle of the night at 3am, you're tossing and you're turning and the sheets are slipping and sliding and you're like, have a nightmares and stuff. 03:02.038 --> 03:05.580 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, so it works by securing the four corners of the bed. 03:05.660 --> 03:17.706 [SPEAKER_08]: It hoaks up to any bed sheet and what makes it different than anything else on the market, right, is that it, it's a 360 degree hold that holds all around the bottom of your fitted sheet and what makes it really unique is that it has a drug cord. 03:18.566 --> 03:20.647 [SPEAKER_08]: Titanor that locks the sheet into place. 03:20.707 --> 03:25.771 [SPEAKER_08]: Just to prove how strong Betscrunchy is, we're lifting up this mattress, eight feet just by the sheet. 03:25.851 --> 03:28.292 [SPEAKER_08]: And look, the Betscrunchy still holds on tight. 03:28.732 --> 03:29.493 [SPEAKER_03]: Amazing. 03:31.394 --> 03:34.836 [SPEAKER_09]: The Betscrunchy starts out as an American success story. 03:35.177 --> 03:39.239 [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, if you think about it, the market for the Betscrunchy is limitless. 03:39.799 --> 03:43.722 [SPEAKER_09]: Basically, anyone who sleeps on a bed is a potential customer. 03:47.489 --> 03:50.550 [SPEAKER_09]: When you just put this out on Amazon, how were sales? 03:50.810 --> 03:51.771 [SPEAKER_08]: We were doing phenomenal. 03:51.791 --> 03:52.731 [SPEAKER_08]: We were doing really great. 03:52.751 --> 03:53.711 [SPEAKER_08]: It was pretty magical. 03:53.751 --> 03:55.052 [SPEAKER_08]: It was so exciting. 03:55.212 --> 03:57.633 [SPEAKER_08]: I launched literally right before COVID. 03:57.753 --> 04:05.336 [SPEAKER_08]: I had just done like a four month stint in China, leaving my wife and my daughter behind and trying to assemble this altogether. 04:05.396 --> 04:09.057 [SPEAKER_08]: And as soon as we started telling it, it was a complete winner out of the gate. 04:09.177 --> 04:11.258 [SPEAKER_08]: Especially during the COVID time, right? 04:11.618 --> 04:13.699 [SPEAKER_08]: So everybody was home, everybody needed 04:14.259 --> 04:20.843 [SPEAKER_08]: you know, to make their environment a lot more comfortable and so bedscreens she was literally, you know, the right product at the right time at the right place, you know. 04:25.056 --> 04:30.877 [SPEAKER_09]: We're probably so close to half a million units, which equates to about $30 million in sales. 04:31.477 --> 04:34.838 [SPEAKER_09]: And the thing about Amazon is, it's ubiquitous. 04:35.318 --> 04:39.639 [SPEAKER_09]: You'd be hard pressed to find anyone, not buying stuff on Amazon. 04:39.979 --> 04:43.399 [SPEAKER_08]: What all your sales take place on Amazon, whether you like it or not, right? 04:43.419 --> 04:53.821 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, when you launch an invention like this, I mean, most people are gonna buy this on Amazon, whether you advertise on TV, or whether you advertise on TikTok or Facebook, or wherever, all roads always lead back to Amazon. 04:58.613 --> 05:02.856 [SPEAKER_09]: And at the beginning of 2024, the bed scrunchie is selling like crazy. 05:03.456 --> 05:06.258 [SPEAKER_09]: Jack and his business partner, Mike, are killing it. 05:06.718 --> 05:09.940 [SPEAKER_09]: They are moving product so fast, they're getting whiplash. 05:10.581 --> 05:16.905 [SPEAKER_09]: But then, suddenly, out of the blue, Amazon does something unexpected. 05:17.365 --> 05:21.928 [SPEAKER_08]: One day, we were living the American dream, and the next day, we were living in American nightmare. 05:22.249 --> 05:24.290 [SPEAKER_09]: Amazon suspends their account. 05:27.624 --> 05:30.625 [SPEAKER_09]: and sales of the bed scrunchie, grind to a halt. 05:31.045 --> 05:37.907 [SPEAKER_08]: Amazon flags us for an insert card, which is seemingly very normal insert card that everybody includes in their packaging. 05:37.927 --> 05:38.827 [SPEAKER_08]: It was a thank you card. 05:39.547 --> 05:46.349 [SPEAKER_08]: That basically says thank you for shopping with us and just basically giving people the opportunity to, you know, leave a 05:49.990 --> 05:50.511 [SPEAKER_08]: Absolutely. 05:50.551 --> 05:51.151 [SPEAKER_08]: And so do I. 05:51.372 --> 05:59.660 [SPEAKER_09]: It's basically offering you the customer some kind of gift or incentive to leave a good review or not even a good review, it just leave a review. 06:00.081 --> 06:00.541 [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly. 06:00.842 --> 06:02.784 [SPEAKER_09]: And literally everyone is doing it. 06:03.344 --> 06:12.354 [SPEAKER_09]: Even products that are manufactured by Amazon and then sold on Amazon send out these little thank you card incentives asking customers to leave reviews. 06:12.814 --> 06:25.037 [SPEAKER_08]: But the whole con here is the whole thing is, is that why would Amazon flag me for something that everyone is doing, including themselves, unless somebody, you know, if somebody's got it out for me, that's a good question. 06:29.603 --> 06:36.967 [SPEAKER_09]: Jack moves heaven and earth to fix this supposed violation and get his bed scrunchy Amazon account back up and running. 06:37.147 --> 06:44.991 [SPEAKER_08]: And they basically made me recall back all the inventory at that time to pull out those insert cards and then recent back the inventory we did it. 06:45.071 --> 06:46.392 [SPEAKER_08]: It was a very expensive thing. 06:46.452 --> 06:48.433 [SPEAKER_08]: It cost me over 30 grand to do, but we did it. 06:48.873 --> 06:49.453 [SPEAKER_08]: And we were back. 06:49.613 --> 06:50.454 [SPEAKER_08]: This was in May. 06:50.594 --> 06:52.975 [SPEAKER_08]: And then in February, the same problem again. 06:53.135 --> 06:55.717 [SPEAKER_08]: They call me back on the same exact card. 06:56.497 --> 07:00.099 [SPEAKER_08]: on the same exact card for me, they shut down the listing. 07:00.580 --> 07:02.641 [SPEAKER_09]: At this point, it feels like they're messing with you. 07:02.981 --> 07:05.282 [SPEAKER_08]: At this point, it absolutely does feel like they're messing with me. 07:05.662 --> 07:07.464 [SPEAKER_09]: And at this point, in May of 2024, they absolutely are. 07:15.101 --> 07:30.864 [SPEAKER_09]: Jack spends thousands of dollars more recalling all the bed scrunchies sitting in Amazon warehouses, removing the offending thank you card, and then restocking those same Amazon warehouses, and Jack's Amazon account is eventually reinstated. 07:31.605 --> 07:32.745 [SPEAKER_09]: but not for long. 07:33.305 --> 07:36.426 [SPEAKER_08]: That'll be fast forward to September of 2024. 07:36.666 --> 07:39.507 [SPEAKER_08]: Amazon says I'm infringing on my own utility patent. 07:39.807 --> 07:45.568 [SPEAKER_08]: I get a flag to my email that says I need to contact the same email that they emailed via to resolve the issue. 07:45.848 --> 07:50.969 [SPEAKER_09]: Keep in mind, Jack and his business partner, Mike, they invented the bed scrunchie. 07:51.469 --> 07:55.430 [SPEAKER_09]: And according to the US patent office, they own all the patents on it. 07:55.830 --> 07:57.210 [SPEAKER_09]: It's a matter of public record. 07:58.088 --> 08:04.554 [SPEAKER_08]: So somebody must have put a complaint from my name against myself and Amazon accepted this complaint. 08:04.794 --> 08:09.859 [SPEAKER_09]: Based on what you're telling me, I do get the impression someone is gunning for you. 08:10.239 --> 08:10.699 [SPEAKER_09]: Must be. 08:11.140 --> 08:17.145 [SPEAKER_09]: Wouldn't someone have had to have impersonate you to put a complaint in that you're violating your patent? 08:17.205 --> 08:19.668 [SPEAKER_08]: But the bigger problem isn't that someone impersonated me, right? 08:19.688 --> 08:24.333 [SPEAKER_08]: The bigger problem is that Amazon has such robust technologically advanced systems. 08:24.833 --> 08:26.014 [SPEAKER_08]: But it's like selective. 08:26.094 --> 08:28.637 [SPEAKER_08]: It's selective how they wanted deploy and how they wanted it in force. 08:28.857 --> 08:31.660 [SPEAKER_08]: When it benefits them, they push the pedal to the metal and when that's it. 08:31.700 --> 08:35.745 [SPEAKER_08]: If it benefits you in any which way, shape or form of they don't care. 08:39.777 --> 08:48.060 [SPEAKER_09]: Jack appeals this latest suspension exhaustively numerous times, but Amazon refuses to reinstate his account. 08:52.942 --> 08:53.482 [SPEAKER_08]: I called them. 08:53.702 --> 08:56.143 [SPEAKER_08]: I called them and I have every call recorded during that sequence. 08:56.578 --> 08:59.660 [SPEAKER_00]: We had this evidence, and that is the reason we have taken this decision. 08:59.780 --> 09:03.563 [SPEAKER_08]: And there was 19 phone calls made after that self infringement, right? 09:03.703 --> 09:10.827 [SPEAKER_08]: 19 phone calls in a one week span, and I did not get a proper insert from Amazon and how to resolve the issue. 09:10.847 --> 09:12.909 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, where I got my answer from, I got my answer from Reddit. 09:13.429 --> 09:16.231 [SPEAKER_08]: It told me that I need to retract to complaint against myself. 09:16.871 --> 09:18.733 [SPEAKER_08]: As absurd as it sounded, I'm like, you know what? 09:19.494 --> 09:21.555 [SPEAKER_08]: This shit is all probably automated AI. 09:21.595 --> 09:27.959 [SPEAKER_08]: I got to satisfy their dumb system and just it's like putting in a code in a computer to get the result, you know? 09:27.999 --> 09:45.231 [SPEAKER_08]: Because apparently there are employees that I call, but I'm 19 of them, you know, all of them are in some country that impact a standard in India or somewhere outside of this country and you can barely understand the half of what they're saying and they don't understand what I'm saying and I'm telling them in fringement pattern and there's a lot of like back and forth 09:46.031 --> 09:50.254 [SPEAKER_08]: It's again, and they gave me four different recipes on how to solve the situation. 09:50.314 --> 09:51.855 [SPEAKER_08]: Every one of them had nothing to do with the other. 09:52.016 --> 09:56.018 [SPEAKER_08]: And the one lady who I did get on the phone that did kind of understand and did say, hey, this is kind of weird. 09:56.038 --> 09:56.739 [SPEAKER_08]: This is not possible. 09:56.759 --> 09:57.440 [SPEAKER_08]: Blah, blah, blah, blah. 09:57.460 --> 09:58.340 [SPEAKER_08]: She could do anything about it. 09:58.861 --> 10:02.523 [SPEAKER_08]: So now you got employees who can't direct you on how to fix the problem. 10:02.824 --> 10:02.904 [SPEAKER_08]: And 10:04.010 --> 10:07.792 [SPEAKER_08]: They have no power to fix the problem when they observe the problem, right? 10:08.192 --> 10:10.874 [SPEAKER_08]: So this is this is questionable stuff now, right? 10:11.274 --> 10:14.676 [SPEAKER_09]: And have sales stopped for you while all this is happening? 10:14.696 --> 10:16.036 [SPEAKER_09]: Are they taking you off Amazon? 10:16.197 --> 10:18.638 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh yeah, yeah, at this point you're listening is frozen. 10:18.818 --> 10:20.659 [SPEAKER_08]: It's frozen and there's not one sale coming in. 10:24.828 --> 10:25.569 [SPEAKER_08]: And this is crazy. 10:25.609 --> 10:27.170 [SPEAKER_08]: This is my whole entire life. 10:27.731 --> 10:30.554 [SPEAKER_08]: This is not some product I found on Ali Baba here that I'm selling. 10:30.574 --> 10:32.576 [SPEAKER_08]: This is a product that I've poured my life into. 10:32.616 --> 10:33.356 [SPEAKER_08]: This is a career. 10:33.376 --> 10:35.839 [SPEAKER_08]: This is, you know, it took me as long to build this. 10:35.859 --> 10:37.480 [SPEAKER_08]: As it takes a doctor to become a doctor. 10:37.621 --> 10:37.901 [SPEAKER_08]: Dr. 10:37.921 --> 10:39.542 [SPEAKER_08]: Goes to school for medical school for four years. 10:39.643 --> 10:41.184 [SPEAKER_08]: I spent fucking five years building this. 10:41.224 --> 10:41.805 [SPEAKER_08]: You know what I'm saying? 10:47.071 --> 10:51.473 [SPEAKER_09]: And the reason Jack Samus on account is suspended is wholly fictitious. 10:52.313 --> 11:02.217 [SPEAKER_09]: Amazon claims Jack infringed on the patent holder of the bed scrunchie, but Jack and his partner Mike are the patent holders of the bed scrunchie, so that makes no sense. 11:03.163 --> 11:05.344 [SPEAKER_09]: Meanwhile, they are drowning. 11:06.004 --> 11:08.865 [SPEAKER_08]: The financial impact of all of this is really huge. 11:08.965 --> 11:16.707 [SPEAKER_08]: We've lost well over $6 million between the company being devalued and direct inventory losses are well over $2 million. 11:16.947 --> 11:25.849 [SPEAKER_08]: We're struggling right now, Mike and I, we're in a situation here where we both have families and we're not making an income right now and actually consistently losing money every month. 11:26.209 --> 11:29.610 [SPEAKER_09]: And in the throes of Jack's suffering and hardship, 11:30.130 --> 11:34.893 [SPEAKER_09]: All of a sudden, a stranger appears, offering Jack a lifeline. 11:37.594 --> 11:41.897 [SPEAKER_08]: I get a message from a guy named Blake and this guy tells me, hey, do you want to sell on Timo? 11:42.337 --> 11:44.158 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm thinking at this point, you know, Amazon's down. 11:44.578 --> 11:46.639 [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe Timo took the idea to start selling on there. 11:46.859 --> 11:49.801 [SPEAKER_09]: Now, Timo is China's version of Amazon. 11:50.341 --> 11:56.485 [SPEAKER_09]: They sell billions of dollars worth of products, just like Amazon, to customers all over the world. 11:57.305 --> 12:03.633 [SPEAKER_09]: and suddenly they seem really interested in selling the bed scrunchie, but there's a catch. 12:04.093 --> 12:09.540 [SPEAKER_08]: The Timo guy tells Jack that in order to sell on Timo, your Amazon account needs to be in good standing. 12:15.480 --> 12:17.221 [SPEAKER_08]: team was trying to undercut things on Amazon. 12:17.241 --> 12:22.886 [SPEAKER_08]: So again, if you're selling this on Amazon for 50 bucks and you know, we can sell it on Timo for 40 bucks. 12:22.966 --> 12:26.949 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, kind of acts as a lead magnet to pull people in and show that team was better for us. 12:26.969 --> 12:28.110 [SPEAKER_08]: It's okay, I bought it to him. 12:28.650 --> 12:37.277 [SPEAKER_09]: And then this Timo guy, Jack is talking to, starts waving the red flag every con artist waves when they're trying to get into your life. 12:37.957 --> 12:41.859 [SPEAKER_09]: It's the number one red flag I write about in my book, anatomy of a con artist. 12:42.099 --> 12:44.620 [SPEAKER_09]: And this guy tells me, look, I can help you with your Amazon account. 12:44.780 --> 12:49.681 [SPEAKER_09]: This TV guy offers to help Jack get his Amazon account reinstated. 12:52.382 --> 12:58.885 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm setting up the next call with this lady that he said his boss, uh, which her name was Jenna, which ironically is my daughter named. 13:00.307 --> 13:05.151 [SPEAKER_09]: Listen, I study con artists, so I think she intentionally used your daughter's name as her name. 13:05.571 --> 13:06.412 [SPEAKER_08]: I'll just review with you. 13:06.432 --> 13:07.253 [SPEAKER_08]: I'll stop you right there. 13:07.273 --> 13:10.636 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's very common in China where somebody will have a Chinese name. 13:10.656 --> 13:11.596 [SPEAKER_08]: I did spend the year there. 13:11.636 --> 13:13.698 [SPEAKER_08]: And then they'll pick any American name out of the hat. 13:13.838 --> 13:16.761 [SPEAKER_08]: I actually named three people personally while I was in China. 13:16.921 --> 13:17.701 [SPEAKER_08]: I named three people. 13:17.721 --> 13:19.243 [SPEAKER_08]: They're like, you choose American name for me. 13:19.263 --> 13:21.705 [SPEAKER_08]: I was like, all right, come here, come here, come here, let me tell you. 13:21.745 --> 13:24.227 [SPEAKER_08]: Let me tell you, I feel like you are a Joseph. 13:24.267 --> 13:25.248 [SPEAKER_08]: There you go, bro. 13:26.362 --> 13:28.945 [SPEAKER_08]: Look, it's possible, it's possible what you're saying. 13:29.605 --> 13:32.028 [SPEAKER_08]: I definitely softened up that, I guess that's where you're trying to get to. 13:32.048 --> 13:41.777 [SPEAKER_08]: So she told me her name is Jen, I'm like, oh, well, my daughter's name is Jen, and then we softened up, and then I spent time in China and she's Chinese, and I kind of felt that warm vibe and it brought me back there, and I'm like, okay, this is... 13:41.977 --> 13:43.298 [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe this is maybe got sent to her. 13:43.358 --> 13:43.738 [SPEAKER_08]: Who knows? 13:43.878 --> 13:44.338 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know. 13:44.679 --> 13:48.361 [SPEAKER_08]: So now I'm talking to her and she's like, look, I can help you with your Amazon account at this point. 13:48.401 --> 13:49.361 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm desperate as shit. 13:49.381 --> 13:50.001 [SPEAKER_08]: You know what I'm saying? 13:50.122 --> 13:51.262 [SPEAKER_08]: I am so desperate. 13:51.342 --> 13:54.924 [SPEAKER_08]: Just as desperate as, you know, you were when you had your situation. 13:55.164 --> 14:10.613 [SPEAKER_09]: Jack's referring to the time I got scammed out of nearly $100,000 by a woman who was masquerading as my best friend for four years, meanwhile she's scamming me and scamming dozens of other people all over the world, impersonating a lawyer, a psychologist, a Ukrainian freedom fighter, 14:11.073 --> 14:14.494 [SPEAKER_09]: And even a satanic high priestess named Lusha Polaya. 14:14.834 --> 14:16.854 [SPEAKER_02]: Satan, my father, I saw you. 14:17.295 --> 14:19.135 [SPEAKER_09]: That whole crazy story is in the book too. 14:19.395 --> 14:21.276 [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, at the time, this was all going down. 14:21.716 --> 14:23.336 [SPEAKER_09]: I was very desperate. 14:23.696 --> 14:27.937 [SPEAKER_09]: Desperate for justice, desperate to understand what the hell just happened to me. 14:28.377 --> 14:30.938 [SPEAKER_09]: And desperate to stop the con woman responsible. 14:31.698 --> 14:34.639 [SPEAKER_08]: And you know when that desperation kicks in, man, you're just looking for answers. 14:34.679 --> 14:38.660 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, anybody who looks like they can give you an answer, you're ready to talk to them. 14:38.880 --> 14:49.529 [SPEAKER_09]: And so this Chinese woman, Jenna, who seems to appear as a savior out of nowhere, has all the right connections Jack needs to get his Amazon account back. 14:49.989 --> 14:54.873 [SPEAKER_09]: She actually knows people deep in the trenches at Amazon right now. 14:55.654 --> 14:57.355 [SPEAKER_09]: Jack records his call with her. 14:57.735 --> 15:02.019 [SPEAKER_06]: We found some guys that were singing Amazon. 15:02.099 --> 15:03.380 [SPEAKER_06]: I looked into your case. 15:04.820 --> 15:09.723 [SPEAKER_08]: I leave the first phone call, I'm like, dude, this is a godsend, I'm time my partner, Mike, man, dude, this is incredible. 15:09.743 --> 15:13.445 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, she's gonna help us, I don't know how, but I know these Chinese people are connected. 15:13.805 --> 15:15.786 [SPEAKER_09]: Oh boy, was she connected, all right. 15:16.186 --> 15:32.576 [SPEAKER_09]: So much so that on the very next call, it's actually a video chat that Jack and his partner Mike have with this woman, Jenna, she pulls up pages and pages of Amazon's internal records about the bed scrunchies suspended account. 15:33.076 --> 15:34.437 [SPEAKER_08]: She has all of my internal records. 15:34.778 --> 15:40.563 [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't give her my identifying merchant token ID, which is kind of like your Amazon Social Security numbers. 15:40.603 --> 15:56.839 [SPEAKER_08]: She pops up with 30 pages of my internal records and they're all legit records, because all these records say everything, they say the times that I call, they say the notes that I've said when I called in, the back end notes of Amazon, what kind of blocks, what kind of problems, all these different annotations. 15:57.399 --> 16:00.480 [SPEAKER_08]: So at this point, I'm like, dude, this is, this is crazy, you know what I mean? 16:00.520 --> 16:02.081 [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't know what to make out of it at that point. 16:02.501 --> 16:12.405 [SPEAKER_09]: At that point, I'm like, if you're trying to help me, if you're trying to screw me up, you can see in that video chat, plain as day, all these internal Amazon records she's pulling up. 16:12.805 --> 16:15.986 [SPEAKER_09]: And this woman, Jenna, is supposedly working with Timo. 16:16.426 --> 16:19.347 [SPEAKER_09]: She should not have access to Amazon's internal records. 16:19.808 --> 16:23.209 [SPEAKER_09]: And he had somehow, she does, and she's not hiding it. 16:23.735 --> 16:27.279 [SPEAKER_06]: So this is just all their communication and holiday. 16:27.519 --> 16:29.721 [SPEAKER_06]: This is their bag and this is the seller. 16:30.022 --> 16:36.068 [SPEAKER_09]: This is their Amazon bag and the other thing worth noting here is that Amazon didn't just freeze Jack's bed screen. 16:36.088 --> 16:36.569 [SPEAKER_09]: She account. 16:37.089 --> 16:45.017 [SPEAKER_09]: They also froze tens of thousands of dollars in sales that they were supposed to transfer to Jack's bank account before the freeze. 16:45.678 --> 16:52.283 [SPEAKER_09]: And now this woman Jenna, who has a hook up at Amazon, is telling Jack, she can get him that money. 16:52.724 --> 17:00.550 [SPEAKER_08]: So she's like, you know, we can get the money out, which was approximately $100,000,000, $90,000 and she's like, look, you know, there will be a fee though. 17:00.830 --> 17:02.912 [SPEAKER_08]: I'll charge you 20 percent, but I'll get your money out. 17:02.952 --> 17:03.913 [SPEAKER_08]: And here's how it's going to work. 17:04.273 --> 17:06.215 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, we'll put on some stuff. 17:06.235 --> 17:07.756 [SPEAKER_08]: And Amazon will talk to the people over there. 17:07.776 --> 17:08.417 [SPEAKER_08]: We pay them off. 17:09.017 --> 17:11.139 [SPEAKER_08]: And the money's going to come to your bank account. 17:11.159 --> 17:13.601 [SPEAKER_08]: And then you're going to send me the 20 percent. 17:13.941 --> 17:25.664 [SPEAKER_09]: The fact that Jenna has access to all of Jack's Amazon records and knows about the frozen sales money and is now hitting him up for a 20% kickback makes it obvious to Jack. 17:25.724 --> 17:26.645 [SPEAKER_09]: What's going on here? 17:27.205 --> 17:28.725 [SPEAKER_09]: It's a classic shake down. 17:29.305 --> 17:31.146 [SPEAKER_09]: It's a hardcore con. 17:31.686 --> 17:35.447 [SPEAKER_08]: At this point, I'm playing along with the com because I'm thinking, okay, this is fucking weird. 17:35.467 --> 17:37.348 [SPEAKER_08]: So this is this is strange. 17:37.408 --> 17:39.189 [SPEAKER_08]: This is really, this is really weird, right? 17:39.509 --> 17:41.249 [SPEAKER_08]: I never asked you to pay the guy. 17:41.749 --> 17:43.190 [SPEAKER_08]: I never asked you to try to bribe anyone. 17:43.450 --> 17:45.111 [SPEAKER_08]: I never even asked you for the account documents. 17:45.371 --> 17:46.971 [SPEAKER_08]: So what the hell are you talking about? 17:46.991 --> 17:49.472 [SPEAKER_08]: You tried to pay some guy and then now the money and this and that. 17:49.912 --> 17:50.612 [SPEAKER_08]: So I'm playing along. 17:50.632 --> 17:52.233 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm like, yeah, I don't know about the money. 17:52.253 --> 17:53.173 [SPEAKER_08]: I got to talk to Mike. 17:53.213 --> 17:53.914 [SPEAKER_08]: I got to do this. 17:53.954 --> 17:55.454 [SPEAKER_08]: I got to do that and I'm stretching it out. 17:55.514 --> 17:57.615 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, you know, like, fresh boots around, stretching it out. 17:58.609 --> 17:59.950 [SPEAKER_08]: I have to play this game, right? 17:59.990 --> 18:03.932 [SPEAKER_08]: I have to see what she's going to say in order to kind of get down to the bottom of this. 18:10.755 --> 18:11.915 [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm a less phone call. 18:12.216 --> 18:17.938 [SPEAKER_07]: He can help people getting that money out and getting that, like, I'm not back to YouTube business. 18:18.018 --> 18:18.359 [SPEAKER_07]: So. 18:18.379 --> 18:21.060 [SPEAKER_08]: She goes, okay, there's a way that I can get your account unblocked. 18:25.883 --> 18:30.651 [SPEAKER_08]: But if I tell you how, you have to be willing to sell us your company, and her and her partner. 18:32.113 --> 18:34.638 [SPEAKER_08]: At that point, I knew this whole thing was a setup. 18:35.728 --> 18:39.769 [SPEAKER_08]: So now my mind automatically fucking puts everything together and it's like, wait a minute. 18:40.429 --> 18:46.730 [SPEAKER_08]: Did she set me up to get my account blocked with the self-patent infringement, with that guy that she has working on the inside? 18:47.250 --> 18:50.231 [SPEAKER_08]: Fuck me up to bring me down so that she can buy me out on the cheap. 18:50.631 --> 18:51.511 [SPEAKER_08]: Is that what's going on here? 18:51.731 --> 18:53.032 [SPEAKER_08]: It sounds like it's what's going on here. 18:53.432 --> 18:59.493 [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, any normal person who's gonna hear the sequence events and the stories and the stuff that was set in between would be hard to argue with what I'm saying. 19:00.313 --> 19:07.417 [SPEAKER_09]: Jack tries like mad to report what's happening to several higher-ups at Amazon and he's basically ignored. 19:08.357 --> 19:13.260 [SPEAKER_08]: So now you start to think, is this lady working with Amazon or is Amazon covered up for this lady? 19:13.300 --> 19:14.320 [SPEAKER_08]: Do they know who she is? 19:14.841 --> 19:15.981 [SPEAKER_08]: What's going on, right? 19:16.081 --> 19:16.802 [SPEAKER_08]: It's really weird. 19:18.003 --> 19:20.065 [SPEAKER_08]: I've started contacting a bunch of media. 19:20.486 --> 19:22.368 [SPEAKER_08]: I got this story published in Bloomberg. 19:22.808 --> 19:31.017 [SPEAKER_09]: And then, thanks to Jack blowing this story up in Bloomberg, just weeks ago, the US Senate starts investigating. 19:33.167 --> 19:41.636 [SPEAKER_01]: The investigation follows a Bloomberg report Wednesday on an alleged bribery network involving Amazon employees in China selling favors to sellers. 19:42.277 --> 19:51.207 [SPEAKER_01]: One seller who spoke with investigators says he recorded conversations with an intermediary offering access to Amazon contacts in exchange for payment. 19:54.516 --> 20:05.385 [SPEAKER_09]: Amazon has admitted no wrongdoing, but back in 2020, the Fed's busted a $100 million Amazon bribery ring, so this is not a new thing. 20:05.766 --> 20:11.531 [SPEAKER_09]: In the meantime, Jack figures out a roundabout way to continue selling his bed scrunchies. 20:19.191 --> 20:21.093 [SPEAKER_09]: Where can people buy a bet scrunchie now? 20:21.354 --> 20:24.717 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it is available on Amazon, but not through me. 20:24.737 --> 20:26.439 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm selling it to a third party seller. 20:26.459 --> 20:27.800 [SPEAKER_08]: So that's the other part of this story, right? 20:27.840 --> 20:29.141 [SPEAKER_08]: So Amazon, right? 20:29.281 --> 20:36.509 [SPEAKER_08]: They blocked me the inventor from selling the product, but they did not block the product off of Amazon, which is another really effed up thing that they did, right? 20:36.529 --> 20:36.749 [SPEAKER_08]: Why? 20:37.089 --> 20:37.409 [SPEAKER_08]: Because... 20:37.990 --> 20:39.051 [SPEAKER_08]: Guess who's getting screwed? 20:39.111 --> 20:41.213 [SPEAKER_08]: The customer, the customer, wants to buy the best grudge. 20:41.234 --> 20:44.257 [SPEAKER_08]: I used to sell this for $39, now sell it for $49. 20:44.697 --> 20:52.526 [SPEAKER_09]: And what's happening at Amazon is reportedly also happening at X, formerly known as Twitter, and at Facebook. 20:55.622 --> 21:00.483 [SPEAKER_05]: I just really want my Facebook back because I've been posting on it ever since my daughter was six months old. 21:00.783 --> 21:05.665 [SPEAKER_09]: That's a Lisa Rosen, a woman who holds a near and dear place in my heart. 21:05.965 --> 21:15.507 [SPEAKER_05]: I own a production company called AYR Media and we do premium documentary podcast, television, series documentaries and film. 21:15.827 --> 21:20.869 [SPEAKER_09]: And that's how we met doing a premium documentary podcast called Queen of the 21:21.669 --> 21:24.972 [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, a six seasons worth of Khan artists. 21:25.592 --> 21:30.996 [SPEAKER_09]: Elisa's current podcast is called Jerbil, about that Richard gear urban legend. 21:37.741 --> 21:40.063 [SPEAKER_09]: But at the end, was there any truth to it? 21:40.203 --> 21:44.866 [SPEAKER_09]: Did he walk into an ER in L.A. with a durable stock someplace? 21:45.567 --> 21:46.227 [SPEAKER_09]: Stop recording. 21:48.365 --> 22:00.456 [SPEAKER_09]: You're going to have to listen to the podcast Jerbal hosted by the Hollywood Reporter's Alan Salkin when it's released on September 17th to find out, just search Jerbal wherever you get your podcasts in the meantime. 22:02.000 --> 22:11.588 [SPEAKER_09]: I've been digging into big tech scammers working inside big tech to scam the end users and it was always just like an arm's length kind of story. 22:11.669 --> 22:15.912 [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't personally know anyone, but then I thought, wait a minute, I know you. 22:16.193 --> 22:18.154 [SPEAKER_09]: This happened to you with Facebook. 22:18.615 --> 22:19.956 [SPEAKER_05]: It's the craziest story. 22:25.346 --> 22:30.151 [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I was a Facebook official and auto being the Gen Xer that I am. 22:30.431 --> 22:39.381 [SPEAKER_05]: I was enjoying it up until the very last day I had it, which I didn't know was going to be the last day I had it, which was in May of 2025. 22:41.743 --> 22:47.229 [SPEAKER_09]: And at that point in May of 2025, a Lisa's Facebook account just disappears. 22:50.452 --> 22:52.054 [SPEAKER_09]: it stops existing. 22:52.474 --> 22:53.956 [SPEAKER_09]: There's nothing to log into. 22:54.576 --> 23:01.944 [SPEAKER_09]: And all of her Facebook friends, myself included, can no longer locate her profile on Facebook. 23:03.705 --> 23:09.171 [SPEAKER_05]: You know, they give you 50 ways to Sunday to try to get it back and nothing was working. 23:10.287 --> 23:13.750 [SPEAKER_09]: It's not like a Lisa can pick up the phone and call someone at Facebook. 23:14.111 --> 23:15.412 [SPEAKER_09]: There's no one to call. 23:15.972 --> 23:24.000 [SPEAKER_09]: Facebook only offers its users a series of circuitous drop-down menus and AI agents to help when something goes wrong. 23:24.480 --> 23:29.585 [SPEAKER_09]: And the Lisa spends months clicking on all the drop-downs and chatting with all those AI agents. 23:30.646 --> 23:34.069 [SPEAKER_05]: And yet, till this day, I've never been able to get my Facebook back. 23:35.277 --> 23:37.859 [SPEAKER_05]: And I tried to figure out what happened. 23:37.879 --> 23:45.966 [SPEAKER_05]: I was still able to get into my Instagram account and as everyone knows, they're both met other, both owned by the same big tech company. 23:46.566 --> 23:54.213 [SPEAKER_05]: So I knew it wasn't sort of a meta-metta issue because I was still able to log into my Instagram no problem. 23:55.445 --> 24:05.508 [SPEAKER_09]: Eventually, Eliza puts Felix out on Instagram for anyone who might know someone who knows someone, ideally, at Facebook, who can help her get her account reinstated. 24:05.928 --> 24:09.489 [SPEAKER_09]: And she finds a guy with his finger on the pulse of this sort of thing. 24:26.042 --> 24:31.851 [SPEAKER_05]: We did a free console and he basically was like, look, this happens all the time. 24:32.232 --> 24:37.119 [SPEAKER_05]: He says, for some reason, your account was flagged or shut down because of pornography. 24:37.240 --> 24:41.106 [SPEAKER_05]: He does like, okay, that makes no sense. 24:41.526 --> 24:44.567 [SPEAKER_05]: I said, all right, well, let's say that's the case, which obviously it's not. 24:44.607 --> 24:46.987 [SPEAKER_05]: Then why would they still let me have an Instagram? 24:47.527 --> 24:49.128 [SPEAKER_05]: And I have Bureau of Problems. 24:49.248 --> 24:54.249 [SPEAKER_05]: And by the way, the account that they were flagging wasn't my account. 24:54.689 --> 24:56.189 [SPEAKER_05]: That's the craziest part of the story. 24:56.229 --> 24:58.850 [SPEAKER_05]: It had my name in it, but it had all these numbers. 24:58.930 --> 25:00.290 [SPEAKER_05]: So it wasn't even me. 25:00.731 --> 25:08.072 [SPEAKER_05]: But somehow this scanner account was now linked to my just regular Lisa Rosen on Facebook account. 25:11.854 --> 25:14.918 [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, I was very determined to get it back. 25:15.179 --> 25:24.152 [SPEAKER_05]: He says, I can probably get it back for you, but it's going to cost anywhere between five to eight thousand dollars. 25:26.992 --> 25:27.473 [SPEAKER_09]: Wow. 25:27.773 --> 25:29.515 [SPEAKER_05]: And I said, why? 25:29.535 --> 25:47.294 [SPEAKER_05]: And I swear to God, Jonathan, he explained to me the reason that it's so expensive and the only way to get it back is because basically people within Meira are doing under the table bribes to give people back their accounts. 25:56.009 --> 26:02.161 [SPEAKER_05]: And this guy somehow legitimately does these bribes because it all goes through like escrow. 26:02.181 --> 26:04.506 [SPEAKER_05]: So it's maybe not legitimate, but it's legitimate with me. 26:05.988 --> 26:07.992 [SPEAKER_05]: And I was like, look, I wanna bath up. 26:09.033 --> 26:11.754 [SPEAKER_05]: First of all, I'm not paying that much money to get it back in second of all. 26:12.294 --> 26:17.256 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not going to go into a scam from the big tech company. 26:17.316 --> 26:20.798 [SPEAKER_05]: It's wanting to pay someone under the table who's helping you on the side. 26:20.838 --> 26:27.680 [SPEAKER_05]: It's another one for them to literally take it away from you and then say, hey, if you want their holding you hostage, I mean, literally, that's what it is. 26:27.720 --> 26:28.601 [SPEAKER_05]: It's a hostage deal. 26:29.121 --> 26:29.981 [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm not doing that. 26:30.021 --> 26:31.902 [SPEAKER_05]: You don't listen to you to can't negotiate with terrorists. 26:31.922 --> 26:33.483 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not going to negotiate with terrorists. 26:33.563 --> 26:33.743 [SPEAKER_05]: So, 26:34.843 --> 26:42.528 [SPEAKER_05]: I said, I'm not going to do it, and so, you know, the solution was we'll just make another account and I'm like, no, I'm not starting from scratch. 26:42.588 --> 26:43.849 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't need to be on Facebook. 26:43.909 --> 26:46.771 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't care that much about having a current Facebook account. 26:47.071 --> 26:53.415 [SPEAKER_05]: This is about the past, is about 16 years of memories that are now wiped out that I'll never get back. 26:58.005 --> 27:18.036 [SPEAKER_09]: out of the more than 3 billion Facebook users that exist today, tens of thousands of them are getting locked out of their accounts every year with no explanation whatsoever, and they have little to no meaningful recourse to get those accounts back, unless they pay a bribe on the DL to someone who works at Facebook. 27:18.505 --> 27:26.589 [SPEAKER_09]: If you extrapolate what this means, like thousands and thousands of people, this is happening to, and they're all taking bribes. 27:26.609 --> 27:30.350 [SPEAKER_09]: These people who work at Facebook, they're probably making a lot of money. 27:30.451 --> 27:32.872 [SPEAKER_09]: You didn't pay, but it sounds like a lot of people do. 27:33.092 --> 27:35.693 [SPEAKER_05]: There's obviously a market for it, or he wouldn't be in business. 27:35.973 --> 27:43.023 [SPEAKER_09]: He, the go between Elisa found who knows who to bribe at Facebook for between $5 and $8,000 to get her account reinstated. 27:43.283 --> 27:51.956 [SPEAKER_05]: But the fact that it's happening, nobody's regulating it, nobody's policing it, nobody's getting arrested for it, it's clearly illegal. 28:01.074 --> 28:07.640 [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm sure Meta would love to root it out if they could, but it sounds like these people are on the extreme DL. 28:07.701 --> 28:18.271 [SPEAKER_09]: And I would imagine the transactions this guy that you know, the go-between, a cut-out, he's probably doing it in crypto or whatever, like untraceable. 28:18.771 --> 28:22.195 [SPEAKER_09]: So how does Meta even root out these scammers who are working for them? 28:22.705 --> 28:33.164 [SPEAKER_05]: That scenario one scenario two is the more conspiratorial cynical argument, which is that they're creating the problem in the first place and then they're benefiting from it on the other side. 28:37.699 --> 28:48.165 [SPEAKER_09]: That is entirely possible, like did one of these actual Facebook employees target Elisa to delete her account, knowing she'd eventually pay them a bribe to get it back? 28:48.766 --> 28:52.548 [SPEAKER_09]: And is that what happened to Jack Nicola and his Amazon Ben Scrunchy account? 28:57.544 --> 29:02.589 [SPEAKER_08]: And the craziest part about it is all of these companies when you click I agree and you sign up. 29:02.849 --> 29:04.290 [SPEAKER_08]: You don't even know what to fuck your agreeing to. 29:04.330 --> 29:05.831 [SPEAKER_08]: You're basically signed your life away. 29:06.412 --> 29:07.273 [SPEAKER_08]: You can't even sue them. 29:07.293 --> 29:08.134 [SPEAKER_08]: You can't do anything. 29:08.894 --> 29:14.699 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a tragedy that these companies have gotten so big to a point where nobody can police them. 29:15.360 --> 29:18.443 [SPEAKER_08]: And when something goes wrong, who do you call? 29:21.800 --> 29:31.762 [SPEAKER_09]: Is there anyone in your life who lives on social media or cellostangs on Amazon, who might benefit from listening to this episode, just click that share button right now. 29:32.002 --> 29:37.163 [SPEAKER_09]: It's that little arrow icon coming out of the little triangle, usually at the top right of your screen. 29:37.683 --> 29:43.624 [SPEAKER_09]: Just click it and text this episode to your friends and family and help me spread the word that this is going on. 29:44.064 --> 29:47.065 [SPEAKER_09]: Let's shine a light and try to take down this shake down. 29:55.149 --> 30:03.654 [SPEAKER_09]: Hardcore Con was created, written, and hosted by me, Jonathan Walton, for Jonathan Walton Media, executive producer, Evan Goldstein. 30:04.194 --> 30:07.156 [SPEAKER_09]: All editing and sound design was done by Jimmy O'Holigan. 30:07.656 --> 30:18.082 [SPEAKER_09]: My book, Anatomy of a Con artist, the 14 Red Flags to spot Scammers, Grifters, and thieves, is available everywhere books were sold in print and in audio, so it's like a podcast. 30:19.260 --> 30:25.308 [SPEAKER_09]: And if you've got a story, you think deserves its own podcast, pitch it to me at JonathanWalton.com.