WEBVTT 00:00.391 --> 00:04.032 [SPEAKER_02]: The last couple days you and I have been talking a lot about resentment. 00:04.572 --> 00:11.234 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and we have both had seasons where we have carried resentment towards when another and it can still come up. 00:11.614 --> 00:18.556 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think one thing we've thought about a lot is that resentment in the moment can almost feel useful. 00:18.796 --> 00:21.777 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, resentment feels like it is protecting me. 00:21.797 --> 00:24.098 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it protects me from getting hurt again. 00:24.338 --> 00:25.398 [SPEAKER_00]: From being vulnerable. 00:26.365 --> 00:35.873 [SPEAKER_02]: But at some point, that thing that's protecting us becomes the thing that really separates us and pulls us apart. 00:36.574 --> 00:38.215 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's actually the trap. 00:38.275 --> 00:40.337 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like you decide to wake up one day. 00:40.377 --> 00:41.898 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, I'm gonna build a wall. 00:42.439 --> 00:47.163 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like little hurts keep adding one brick over and over. 00:47.963 --> 00:53.288 [SPEAKER_02]: And before you know it, all of a sudden we're living on opposite sides of that wall. 00:54.013 --> 01:06.978 [SPEAKER_00]: So today we're talking all about resentment, how it grows, what it protects us from and how we can slowly begin to take down that wall and how we've been doing that in our own relationship and it actually feels really good. 01:12.120 --> 01:34.711 [SPEAKER_00]: Hello all and welcome to the Relationship Innovation podcast where we learn everything healthy relationships skills related and we talk about our own stuff and how we get through that so we can normalize that all couples experience challenges, lots of them and how we can support each other and gain those skills so that we can have an awesome relationship. 01:34.931 --> 01:35.991 [SPEAKER_00]: I am Tara Kerwin. 01:39.573 --> 01:46.476 [SPEAKER_02]: We are going to begin today with something that I think is a little, a little bit of a risk, a little bit. 01:46.556 --> 01:48.397 [SPEAKER_02]: No, my heart is racing a lot. 01:48.477 --> 01:54.659 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to start because our episode is all about why resentment keeps us apart. 01:54.779 --> 02:02.963 [SPEAKER_02]: How it sort of appears, why we do it, and maybe even how to, how to begin to pull that wall apart one brick at a time. 02:03.503 --> 02:08.187 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to start by sharing a resentment that we carry for each other. 02:08.207 --> 02:10.349 [SPEAKER_00]: Why do you have to say it in such a cute way? 02:10.429 --> 02:12.050 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, well, I'm not sure. 02:12.070 --> 02:12.951 [SPEAKER_02]: You can start first. 02:13.191 --> 02:16.694 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm more nervous to share my resentment. 02:16.774 --> 02:19.997 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that I am to hear what you're resentful about. 02:20.437 --> 02:27.162 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I can handle whatever it is that you might share today, but like sharing it is. 02:28.063 --> 02:28.764 [SPEAKER_02]: is the hard part. 02:28.784 --> 02:29.766 [SPEAKER_02]: So I will all start. 02:30.346 --> 02:31.989 [SPEAKER_02]: Probably won't come as a big surprise to you. 02:32.890 --> 02:35.434 [SPEAKER_02]: I resent your anxiety. 02:36.335 --> 02:44.386 [SPEAKER_02]: I resent your anxiety and when it pops up, it occupies so much space. 02:45.803 --> 02:52.170 [SPEAKER_02]: And I really try to separate from you, like, I feel like it takes over our relationship. 02:52.230 --> 03:02.541 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, and I'm like caretaking your anxiety versus taking care of you, and the cost of it that I see. 03:05.003 --> 03:27.357 [SPEAKER_02]: is I become a poor steward like I I don't take care of you well I don't I'm not supportive then because like when if I'm not careful the minute your anxiety comes up like I kind of share one like yeah this is not interesting because I can't wait to share mine that totally fits in yeah 100% yeah 03:28.318 --> 03:33.444 [SPEAKER_02]: Like last night, so we have the agreement, they'll talk about work after like eight or nine or whatever. 03:33.785 --> 03:40.573 [SPEAKER_02]: And Tara noticed that I hadn't done an Instagram message in like almost two weeks. 03:41.494 --> 03:47.921 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know, like, yeah, I know it's important to do that, but also like I knew her anxiety kicked in right away. 03:48.782 --> 03:50.222 [SPEAKER_02]: Around it like what's happening? 03:50.242 --> 03:50.942 [SPEAKER_02]: What don't we do? 03:50.982 --> 03:59.064 [SPEAKER_02]: What are we failing at and then I like I freeze up because I'm like okay like how do I soothe her anxiety? 03:59.704 --> 04:07.145 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yeah And so I that's my resume my resentment is I'm gonna use a really healthy Communication skill. 04:07.285 --> 04:09.105 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, called validation. 04:09.346 --> 04:10.186 [SPEAKER_02]: All right about it me. 04:10.606 --> 04:15.507 [SPEAKER_00]: I hear that that my anxiety and the energy of it 04:19.251 --> 04:22.575 [SPEAKER_00]: And that at times, it feels like you're caretaking my anxiety and not me. 04:23.275 --> 04:24.036 [SPEAKER_02]: That is accurate. 04:24.216 --> 04:24.577 [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome. 04:25.037 --> 04:25.418 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it. 04:25.578 --> 04:27.199 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no need to go any further. 04:27.560 --> 04:30.042 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're hearing this and you guys are going to have this resentment conversation. 04:30.162 --> 04:30.383 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 04:31.324 --> 04:31.824 [SPEAKER_00]: So interesting. 04:31.844 --> 04:32.205 [SPEAKER_02]: Give it to me. 04:33.077 --> 04:36.040 [SPEAKER_00]: I resent your defensiveness to my anxiety. 04:36.060 --> 04:39.043 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow, we're going to say that before. 04:39.103 --> 04:51.335 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because I was thinking about last night, like, yes, I get anxious because, you know, like, if you know us, we have so many moving parts in our lives from our kids to our podcast, our coaching business to our 04:52.095 --> 05:15.324 [SPEAKER_00]: Counseling Center with 12 staff that we supervise, like it's just a lot, and I feel like we're pulled in all these different directions, and so when we're not consistent with things, I'm like, oh, everything's going to unravel, I do, I get a lot of anxiety because you and I don't have enough time to like sit with each other and plan our week and like be on the same page about everything because there's so many moving parts. 05:16.024 --> 05:22.951 [SPEAKER_00]: And the minute I, the second I asked, like, oh my gosh, I didn't know that we haven't posted since July 10th. 05:23.611 --> 05:29.476 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you go into defensive mode and then I'm like, man, I, I'm just anxious right now. 05:30.177 --> 05:32.819 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you're like, we do everything consistently. 05:32.859 --> 05:34.621 [SPEAKER_00]: We're really good at doing lots of things. 05:34.681 --> 05:36.182 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, no, I know the hat. 05:36.983 --> 05:43.627 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm not talking about that so you go into defensive justification mode and that's what I get resentful for in it. 05:44.007 --> 05:47.149 [SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't help me because then I go and we're going to talk about this later. 05:47.189 --> 05:52.693 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that story of like, I'll never be able to have a voice, my anxiety will never be okay. 05:53.473 --> 05:56.075 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, each is going to defend himself until the grave. 05:56.955 --> 06:00.898 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I go into that story which then creates that fractured emotional safety. 06:02.005 --> 06:19.383 [SPEAKER_02]: I hear that you resent my defensiveness that happens when you are feeling anxious and that that's difficult because you feel like you'll never really be able to get my support in those anxious moments. 06:19.751 --> 06:24.672 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because what I would really love is like, hey honey, like what's happening for you? 06:25.032 --> 06:30.274 [SPEAKER_00]: What's it like to know that like to really you can go into your explaining mode? 06:31.334 --> 06:43.477 [SPEAKER_00]: After you kind of tend to my anxiety first like, hey I know this creates a lot of anxiety for you and you know what I am on it, I just got backtracked a little like if you could see me and the anxiety in that moment that would feel really good. 06:44.277 --> 06:48.900 [SPEAKER_00]: and like for you because you resent my anxiety, like what do you need? 06:49.281 --> 06:50.702 [SPEAKER_00]: Like how could I say it? 06:51.818 --> 07:00.447 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, because I know what I would need from you, I would need you to tend to my, hey honey, I can see this is really hard for you, knowing that you haven't seen a post in a couple of weeks, gets you really anxious. 07:00.507 --> 07:01.387 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's interesting. 07:01.427 --> 07:10.256 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think we want this a similar thing, because I don't want to feel like I'm on trial for, why, why didn't that happen? 07:10.837 --> 07:13.599 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's, and that's your anxiety is talking. 07:14.300 --> 07:29.937 [SPEAKER_02]: it's looking for some answer that I won't be able to give and so like I guess I want you to just like I want you like I think I I'm I'm hoping that you'll separate yourself from your anxiety for me. 07:30.878 --> 07:49.893 [SPEAKER_02]: Like that you'll be able to say like, okay, this is just me feeling anxious versus you often say say well, this is just my anxiety and so it's like It's like if I say because I did say this is my anxiety, but that's that's that is triggering. 07:50.073 --> 07:51.794 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so what what could I say? 07:52.355 --> 07:54.576 [SPEAKER_02]: This this is anxiousness. 07:54.857 --> 07:59.160 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like if you separated your anxiety from yourself for me 08:00.968 --> 08:10.676 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, like, well, or even if you just said, I'm feeling anxious versus like, this is my anxiety because then it feels like you're sort of like being like here, take care of this anxiety. 08:10.696 --> 08:10.877 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 08:11.017 --> 08:22.066 [SPEAKER_00]: So basically, like, instead of like letting anxiety hijack me, like, hey, JJ, I just noticed, like, the last postate was July 10, then I'm feeling really anxious. 08:22.247 --> 08:23.267 [SPEAKER_00]: Can we talk about this? 08:23.287 --> 08:23.948 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 08:24.288 --> 08:24.709 [SPEAKER_00]: Second. 08:25.129 --> 08:25.849 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it would help. 08:26.089 --> 08:27.170 [SPEAKER_00]: It would help. 08:27.230 --> 08:27.930 [SPEAKER_00]: I would get a contact. 08:27.950 --> 08:33.913 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't predict that you will not be defensive, but at least I'm doing what you said might work, right? 08:34.273 --> 08:34.493 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 08:34.954 --> 08:39.676 [SPEAKER_00]: Because then you might be able to give me what I need in that moment, which would be what? 08:41.018 --> 08:49.421 [SPEAKER_02]: which is a support of the emotional state, not solving the problem. 08:49.661 --> 08:51.682 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, not explaining it away. 08:51.722 --> 08:52.722 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's perfect. 08:52.742 --> 08:54.543 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 08:55.263 --> 08:58.845 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I mean, what happens is sort of rolls into our first point. 09:00.025 --> 09:07.832 [SPEAKER_02]: is resentment, because this is for both of us, this is like a repeating dynamic that happens frequently. 09:07.852 --> 09:08.592 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 09:08.652 --> 09:16.479 [SPEAKER_02]: Because it could be, the anxiety could be about, come home and the kids haven't cleaned the kitchen, or it could be about anything. 09:16.499 --> 09:17.800 [SPEAKER_02]: It could be about anything, right? 09:18.520 --> 09:35.561 [SPEAKER_02]: is we both automatically start protecting ourselves like resentment is my first statement to myself of like oh here it goes again like okay like whatever emotional state is coming from you in that moment 09:36.421 --> 09:49.846 [SPEAKER_02]: I need to protect myself from it because resentment is built over something that keeps hurting us, you know, something that continues to be a pain point. 09:49.886 --> 09:56.649 [SPEAKER_02]: Like the first time I got defensive or the first time you became anxious around me. 09:57.529 --> 09:59.309 [SPEAKER_02]: it was just like, oh, that's happening. 09:59.349 --> 10:10.052 [SPEAKER_02]: It was like not a big of a deal, but the hurt that each of us has felt or the discomfort, the inconvenience, whatever it is. 10:10.212 --> 10:11.672 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a different amount of whole book. 10:11.872 --> 10:22.374 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we've, it's happened over and over and over and so what the resentment does is it quickly says like, nope, not going to deal with that. 10:22.454 --> 10:22.915 [SPEAKER_02]: This is just 10:25.256 --> 10:26.196 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what both of us do. 10:26.216 --> 10:27.857 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's safer than being vulnerable. 10:28.277 --> 10:36.339 [SPEAKER_00]: It's safer than being vulnerable because it can dig us into our story that we've written 500 pages, maybe 1,000 pages too. 10:37.159 --> 10:40.680 [SPEAKER_00]: And like we can like be like, yep, see, this is never gonna change. 10:40.720 --> 10:42.561 [SPEAKER_02]: Because we don't trust. 10:42.921 --> 10:43.121 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 10:43.741 --> 10:45.822 [SPEAKER_02]: that it can be any different. 10:45.862 --> 10:47.482 [SPEAKER_00]: No, we just want to use factual evidence. 10:47.502 --> 11:07.290 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what couples, they're like, they just resentment is a protective measure in saying, like, this is just a dynamic that is just going to keep on, because if you're resentful about your partners avoidance, the moment that avoidance comes up, your resentment meets it, 11:08.050 --> 11:10.931 [SPEAKER_02]: and says, oh, the same BS again, are you? 11:11.051 --> 11:19.593 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because of all that, all the stories we've created and all the hurts we've piled up and all those, again, I like the metaphor of there is another brick. 11:20.033 --> 11:22.914 [SPEAKER_02]: And it feels useful, right? 11:23.374 --> 11:31.095 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it feels, yeah, it's to me it's like an energy, like a powerful energy instead of, oh, I can't trust this again. 11:31.756 --> 11:33.396 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, of course, this is happening. 11:33.476 --> 11:36.157 [SPEAKER_00]: It like feels you like, when I feel resentful, 11:38.718 --> 11:40.019 [SPEAKER_00]: Angry, right? 11:40.039 --> 11:42.902 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel angry which feels like that's serving a purpose. 11:42.962 --> 11:44.143 [SPEAKER_00]: I get the anger I get. 11:44.183 --> 11:46.365 [SPEAKER_00]: He will know that he has really freaking hurt me. 11:46.385 --> 11:47.466 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 11:47.786 --> 11:50.228 [SPEAKER_02]: What my resentment feels judging. 11:50.649 --> 11:50.889 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 11:51.109 --> 11:53.411 [SPEAKER_02]: It feels like I'm not even fricking. 11:53.451 --> 11:54.552 [SPEAKER_02]: Are you kidding me? 11:54.572 --> 11:56.574 [SPEAKER_02]: It's 9.30 at night. 11:56.594 --> 11:57.995 [SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about fricking. 11:58.816 --> 12:08.606 [SPEAKER_02]: some vanity metric on Instagram, you know, I go into that story and it's and I go into the story of like nothing that's important to me is important to me. 12:08.626 --> 12:09.327 [SPEAKER_02]: I know that story. 12:09.347 --> 12:15.193 [SPEAKER_00]: Whether it's my little honor at home videos, whether it's my Instagram, whether it's my date night, it doesn't matter. 12:15.253 --> 12:16.615 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I go into that story. 12:16.675 --> 12:19.718 [SPEAKER_00]: Like see only EJ stuff is important to him. 12:19.958 --> 12:31.185 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and it keeps us from having a vulnerable connecting moment, and then it also keeps us from actually solving the problem. 12:31.872 --> 12:55.522 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, can I share one thing too if you're listening out there and you can really relate to this dynamic like our two kids were in our room last night and I remember Jojo was like, oh man, like they pick up on it, they can pick up on what's about to happen because it's it's it's such a pattern, but because you and I are so much better at not letting it escalate. 12:56.062 --> 13:00.286 [SPEAKER_00]: Like within 10, 15 minutes, we were able to let go. 13:00.806 --> 13:04.249 [SPEAKER_00]: But I just remember, it's so important because of my man. 13:04.729 --> 13:09.053 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the kids feel that resentment and they want to caretake it or get away from it. 13:09.453 --> 13:11.795 [SPEAKER_00]: And it just reminds me of all my childhood trauma. 13:11.815 --> 13:18.141 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't want them to see resentment because it's just a part of who we are and like on-met needs in relationships. 13:18.181 --> 13:19.342 [SPEAKER_00]: But I also want them to see that. 13:19.802 --> 13:26.005 [SPEAKER_00]: We can get through this like in a short amount of time and be okay and still go on to watch our whatever show we are watching. 13:26.305 --> 13:26.665 [SPEAKER_02]: Valley. 13:27.145 --> 13:28.546 [SPEAKER_02]: The valley. 13:28.586 --> 13:28.766 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 13:30.026 --> 13:35.008 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, it just reminded me of like, yeah, that's so important to work through this together. 13:35.429 --> 13:37.850 [SPEAKER_00]: We have been doing this for a really long time. 13:38.130 --> 13:39.490 [SPEAKER_00]: It's still pops up. 13:39.730 --> 13:41.171 [SPEAKER_00]: We still struggle. 13:41.671 --> 13:44.993 [SPEAKER_00]: But we're getting better and better every time, which is the most important. 13:45.033 --> 13:45.873 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not perfection. 13:46.293 --> 14:03.567 [SPEAKER_02]: So for you at home you want to begin to look at like where are all those places where we're building walls where we each have been hurt in a certain way and it doesn't even just have to be hurt because I don't think I get hurt by your anxiety. 14:03.627 --> 14:05.969 [SPEAKER_02]: I think for me it's like I'm inconvenient. 14:06.009 --> 14:12.875 [SPEAKER_02]: You know because sometimes there's there's resentment around you know a couple and like work distribution 14:13.395 --> 14:13.695 [SPEAKER_02]: Right? 14:13.815 --> 14:21.459 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's like, oh, I've felt like that I'm the only one who cleans the kitchen for years. 14:21.619 --> 14:28.643 [SPEAKER_02]: And so the minute there's a, you know, three dishes in the sink, my resentment comes up. 14:29.403 --> 14:37.567 [SPEAKER_02]: It protects me from feeling unsupported and instead puts me in a place of anger and judgment as a protective measure. 14:38.476 --> 14:40.357 [SPEAKER_00]: Where is that moment when it comes to intimacy? 14:40.377 --> 14:55.625 [SPEAKER_00]: Especially physical intimacy, like that is so destructive because the closest two people can get physically, like making love whatever that is for that person, most vulnerable, most connecting, most trusting. 14:56.585 --> 15:24.027 [SPEAKER_00]: and then resentment right starts to pile in there because like oh now I don't feel safe with my person now I don't want them looking how dare you think that you can like touch me and we can still like make love or have sex when like you keep getting all of these things wrong and so it creates such blocks to the most vulnerable intimate ways we can be with each other and so I do I feel like resentment like working through it is probably one of the most 15:25.047 --> 15:29.229 [SPEAKER_00]: important processes to go through with your partner, but you have to be willing to hear it. 15:29.429 --> 15:32.170 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, we were willing to hear it, and I'm not going to weaponize it later. 15:32.190 --> 15:38.332 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I can't believe you said my society may be now in a later fight, and I'll be like, oh, are you still resentful of my anxiety? 15:38.352 --> 15:38.692 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Mike. 15:38.712 --> 15:39.213 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 15:40.633 --> 15:47.238 [SPEAKER_02]: So now what we're saying is like when there's been a discomfort long enough, you build resentment one brick at a time. 15:47.778 --> 15:53.402 [SPEAKER_02]: It is protective on some level because it allows you to keep maybe from getting hurt by that. 15:53.822 --> 15:58.746 [SPEAKER_02]: And instead you become reactive, angry, frustrated, irritated, annoyed with it. 15:59.646 --> 16:02.927 [SPEAKER_02]: But the cost is emotional distance, right? 16:02.967 --> 16:05.088 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, emotional physical distance. 16:05.228 --> 16:22.795 [SPEAKER_02]: The cost is a lack of like real like caring curiosity about, you know, in this case, being curious and curious and caring about my defensiveness and like why it's there and how I'm trying to work through it. 16:22.835 --> 16:28.577 [SPEAKER_02]: It's me becoming less curious, less caring about her anxiety. 16:29.457 --> 16:47.065 [SPEAKER_02]: It also, enough walls get built, so we got the one around, you know, withdrawal, we got the one around anxiety, we got the one around micro management, you know, we got, we get enough walls and we stop like playing with one another, you know. 16:47.285 --> 17:02.318 [SPEAKER_02]: we originally started this episode news all about like how resentment sort of like squalches joy in your relationship and we're not going totally deep into that but that is one of the costs is when there's enough resentment you stop enjoying one another 17:02.618 --> 17:26.180 [SPEAKER_00]: And so interesting because I'm we're joyful people like when you're not in my orbit I'm like calling you I'll say like you know that one song We just call it to say we love you like I'm joyful person So even though we have these moments like I still we still our system possesses a lot of joy But when those moments happen like they get etched in and they just they're hurt they hurt 17:26.920 --> 17:33.562 [SPEAKER_00]: They hurt, and so it just, it like keeps joy playfulness kind of like in this rigid place. 17:34.282 --> 17:36.823 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of letting it be more flexible if that makes sense. 17:36.843 --> 17:43.885 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't see the pathways to joy, to happiness, to fun, to playfulness. 17:44.005 --> 17:46.186 [SPEAKER_02]: All we see are all these walls. 17:46.246 --> 17:47.706 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and if we could just... 17:47.726 --> 17:48.567 [SPEAKER_00]: Between the two of us. 17:48.647 --> 17:49.107 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 17:50.363 --> 18:07.898 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, the first thing we do, because obviously these walls aren't actual real concrete walls, their abstract walls of emotion, of thought, of judgment, we have to identify with our partner like where are these resentments? 18:08.397 --> 18:13.840 [SPEAKER_00]: I am now going to create a whole resentment and repair exercise in our model because this is the one point. 18:14.060 --> 18:24.066 [SPEAKER_00]: I have little things around expectations and stuff like that, but I feel like really calling out the resentment piece of it so you can understand what that is. 18:24.867 --> 18:37.692 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so funny because there have been times where like I've been with a couple and I can just like smell the resume between the two of them and just like there and I'll name it and I'll be like it sounds like you're resentful about this and people don't like to cop to resume. 18:37.712 --> 18:40.313 [SPEAKER_02]: They do not want to admit to because it's such a heavy word. 18:40.473 --> 18:41.654 [SPEAKER_00]: The word is heavy. 18:41.794 --> 18:44.415 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's why I don't have a lesson around resentment. 18:45.176 --> 18:51.740 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I think like what happens is people just want to like obliterate the wall. 18:51.800 --> 19:00.065 [SPEAKER_02]: They just want to like come to coaching, you know, and they just want to be like, let's just blow this tank thing up or let's like build a highway around it. 19:00.705 --> 19:06.089 [SPEAKER_02]: And what we know is you bring that wall down one brick at a time. 19:06.989 --> 19:21.574 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that we're still working on this dynamic of, you know, defensiveness and anxiety and we did a much better job last night with it than we've done in the past. 19:22.354 --> 19:24.334 [SPEAKER_02]: But, and that's like one brick, right? 19:24.414 --> 19:25.975 [SPEAKER_02]: Is it like we didn't hold on to it? 19:26.095 --> 19:29.296 [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't totally surrender into our resentments. 19:36.524 --> 19:50.929 [SPEAKER_00]: When we do the, I want to just say like attachment work with each other, we like because yesterday when you got defensive like at first I was like, but then I like see that little boy part of you that always had to like. 19:52.149 --> 20:19.715 [SPEAKER_00]: Come back and like be defensive because nothing was ever good enough and like I have compassion for that part So instead of like there's two parts like yes, I'm frustrated and I'm feeling resentful But I also know like this is EJ's like biggest work he has to do like he's Defensive for a reason it's like a survival protective mechanism So I'm able to hold that and that's how I'm able to me get through it In like 15 minutes because what my anxiety wants to do is keep going going going going 20:22.376 --> 20:24.457 [SPEAKER_00]: to stop, and then I think about E.J. 20:24.497 --> 20:31.398 [SPEAKER_00]: and the little guy who's just like suffering and he's just defending himself because he does so much and it's still on enough. 20:31.958 --> 20:42.041 [SPEAKER_00]: And so like that part is really important too, which is why we always do, you know, attachment interviews with each other to find out what it was like for them when they were growing up and what they're 20:42.621 --> 20:45.405 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what their survival instincts are, they're defensive mechanisms. 20:45.425 --> 20:47.789 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to help understand their resentment piece. 20:47.809 --> 20:57.141 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and when you have that conversation with your partner after this podcast today, you talk about your resentment, and you come at it from a much more curious standpoint. 20:57.822 --> 21:20.212 [SPEAKER_02]: And you say, like, help me understand like what happens, that anxiety, you know, that defensiveness, that withdrawal, that overwhelm, whatever it is, like help me understand what's happening for you, you come to understand your partner, and then instead of that wall of resentment that throwing another brick on that wall of resentment in the next time it happens, 21:20.712 --> 21:25.658 [SPEAKER_02]: there's the opportunity for an opening of the heart of what's happening for you. 21:25.698 --> 21:36.151 [SPEAKER_02]: If I can get better at saying like, okay, like when you see that July, you know, whatever was the last Instagram, like what happens for you? 21:36.832 --> 21:46.060 [SPEAKER_02]: And then even if she says, well, it's just another time that we aren't following through, we're not getting shit done, I can say like, well, what's that, what's that like to think that? 21:46.080 --> 21:50.304 [SPEAKER_02]: Because yeah, sometimes we don't follow through and sometimes we don't get it done. 21:50.544 --> 21:54.608 [SPEAKER_02]: Instead of we do all this shit, like we get it all done, you know? 21:55.208 --> 21:57.629 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I think I did do a little bit of this last night. 21:57.649 --> 22:02.051 [SPEAKER_02]: I said like, yeah, I haven't posted like I got behind two weeks ago. 22:03.172 --> 22:06.053 [SPEAKER_02]: But I take accountability for that and I'll get right back on it. 22:06.153 --> 22:08.394 [SPEAKER_02]: And then this morning I got back on it. 22:08.414 --> 22:13.617 [SPEAKER_02]: It was the first thing I did was I was like, I know this is going to make her feel more calm, more regulated. 22:13.637 --> 22:15.798 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to get that Instagram post up for her. 22:16.198 --> 22:20.623 [SPEAKER_02]: Instead of resentment, could've led me to be like, fuck, that fucking ceramic, so I think I'm stupid. 22:21.904 --> 22:32.595 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna just allow you to go deeper with each other, become more vulnerable, understand your system better, which is what gives us freedom to be, who we need to be, whatever that is. 22:32.715 --> 22:33.957 [SPEAKER_02]: And be courageous. 22:34.237 --> 22:36.679 [SPEAKER_02]: I think this is a big thing I've been thinking a lot about, is like, 22:37.400 --> 22:42.664 [SPEAKER_02]: It is a courageous thing to drop my resentment and open my heart back up to tear. 22:43.145 --> 22:43.925 [SPEAKER_02]: It really is. 22:43.945 --> 22:45.547 [SPEAKER_02]: It really feels that way to me. 22:45.587 --> 22:49.150 [SPEAKER_02]: It feels like it takes like courage to do it. 22:49.690 --> 22:50.911 [SPEAKER_02]: I used to think it took effort. 22:51.652 --> 22:57.456 [SPEAKER_02]: And now I'm working towards no, it takes like courage to be like, I can sit in this discomfort with you. 22:58.849 --> 22:59.349 [SPEAKER_02]: So now. 22:59.990 --> 23:00.270 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 23:00.450 --> 23:02.411 [SPEAKER_02]: Terrate Sam, we do homework. 23:02.471 --> 23:04.332 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't give people homework. 23:04.372 --> 23:05.353 [SPEAKER_02]: We give people love work. 23:05.373 --> 23:05.853 [SPEAKER_02]: Love work. 23:05.953 --> 23:06.474 [SPEAKER_00]: Love work. 23:06.534 --> 23:08.575 [SPEAKER_00]: Which actually I'm thinking about this is right now. 23:08.635 --> 23:18.161 [SPEAKER_00]: I know this episode won't air for a couple of weeks, but I would love to do something in our Patreon community like a free uploading exercise around resentment and repair. 23:18.501 --> 23:30.105 [SPEAKER_00]: where we're going to follow through, it's, I think it's going to be really helpful since, you know, I know some of you who listen have the relationship and innovation at home, you know, from Amazon, but there's nothing in there around that in particular piece of what we're talking about today. 23:30.125 --> 23:40.108 [SPEAKER_00]: So I might actually create something over the next few days and upload it into our Patreon community so that way, there's like a guide, a structure, we love structure, a guide to that. 23:40.168 --> 23:43.149 [SPEAKER_00]: So I will have that as a resource for sure, 100%. 23:43.609 --> 23:45.230 [SPEAKER_02]: So you're current love work. 23:46.050 --> 23:46.871 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, yes. 23:46.891 --> 23:51.614 [SPEAKER_02]: Is sitting down in a conversation with your partner, keeping an open heart? 23:52.254 --> 23:52.975 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 23:52.995 --> 23:58.918 [SPEAKER_02]: And the first question for each of you is, what is each of your resentments protecting you from? 23:58.938 --> 24:00.259 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I like that. 24:00.559 --> 24:05.362 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, instead of naming the resentments, what do you think resentments are protecting you from? 24:05.382 --> 24:14.108 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think what we did at the beginning is a little bit of a, can be for some couples a little much, but I think just talking about what does your resentment protect you from? 24:14.635 --> 24:16.556 [SPEAKER_00]: What does your resentment protect you from, AJ? 24:17.437 --> 24:24.222 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, from not being enough from the fact that, yeah, I do mess up in the, that's okay. 24:25.163 --> 24:36.211 [SPEAKER_02]: My resentment in this case protects me from being like, yeah, you know, I didn't, I haven't put anything up in two weeks and I know that that's important to you and I didn't do it. 24:37.132 --> 24:38.673 [SPEAKER_02]: What is your resentment protect you from? 24:39.556 --> 24:41.437 [SPEAKER_00]: like letting anything fall through the cracks. 24:42.338 --> 24:50.002 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if I stay in this resentful place, like then things won't fall through the cracks because people will know it's important. 24:50.762 --> 24:54.204 [SPEAKER_02]: Like that you think in some other way, it will motivate me to do better. 24:54.724 --> 24:55.425 [SPEAKER_00]: Possibly. 24:57.049 --> 25:00.490 [SPEAKER_00]: Possibly it could be that and or I'm thinking about this now. 25:00.510 --> 25:09.093 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I haven't really asked myself this question Resentment protects me from Just feeling soft. 25:09.433 --> 25:21.817 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because you when yours that man comes up you get your Because if I feel soft and I let my guards down something really bad will happen And it won't be safe and it will not be okay. 25:22.657 --> 25:23.317 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah. 25:23.557 --> 25:26.218 [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like it protects me from like death 25:26.890 --> 25:35.037 [SPEAKER_02]: You couldn't be resentful when you were a kid and maybe you couldn't be even be resentful with many of the guys you dated before me. 25:35.057 --> 25:36.679 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I had to be perfect. 25:37.019 --> 25:39.301 [SPEAKER_02]: But, may you let that result, man. 25:39.601 --> 25:41.022 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much. 25:41.203 --> 25:42.564 [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome. 25:42.584 --> 25:46.047 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what happens in a safe relationship, you fall, okay? 25:46.187 --> 25:51.272 [SPEAKER_02]: And then the other question is, what's one brick that I could remove this week? 25:53.053 --> 25:53.413 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 25:53.553 --> 26:08.839 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, one brick I can remove this week is really paying attention to the anxiety and coming in like a gentle way like, hey Jay, like I just want to let you know, I'm feeling really anxious about this and I don't want it to hijack me into resentment. 26:09.119 --> 26:12.080 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm again, I know you might hear this in a way that's 26:13.981 --> 26:18.205 [SPEAKER_00]: hard, but I just want you to know it's just coming from this and I don't need you to solve it or explain it. 26:18.225 --> 26:20.187 [SPEAKER_00]: I just need you to like be with my anxiety. 26:20.687 --> 26:21.688 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that a good brick? 26:22.088 --> 26:23.089 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'm going to work on it. 26:23.570 --> 26:31.397 [SPEAKER_02]: And my brick is, uh, as I'm going to take that big old brick and it's right in the middle, that's, no, I'm not being defensive. 26:32.138 --> 26:32.258 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh. 26:32.718 --> 26:37.122 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm going to be like, I'm not going to put that brick, I'm going to put that brick down. 26:37.142 --> 26:42.106 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to be like, you know, yeah, like, I feel defensive right now, like right away. 26:42.367 --> 26:42.667 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 26:42.747 --> 26:48.832 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, like right now, I feel like you're telling me I screwed up and I need to defend myself. 26:48.872 --> 26:49.513 [SPEAKER_00]: I love that. 26:49.713 --> 26:52.556 [SPEAKER_00]: That gives you a little space before just acting on it. 26:52.616 --> 26:53.737 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll look through that wall then. 26:54.610 --> 26:55.050 [SPEAKER_00]: I love it. 26:55.711 --> 26:57.412 [SPEAKER_00]: You guys know you can reach out to us too. 26:57.472 --> 27:00.675 [SPEAKER_00]: If you have any questions about this again, I'm going to try to put up a resource. 27:01.275 --> 27:05.638 [SPEAKER_00]: So when this does air authority in our Patreon community, so you can access it. 27:05.718 --> 27:08.560 [SPEAKER_02]: Podcasts at relationship renovation.com. 27:08.640 --> 27:16.546 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, there's an email we got yesterday from this listener and he's like holy f, like he actually said the whole word in the email. 27:16.886 --> 27:23.591 [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, it's like you're living in our relationship and like I love hearing that that we are own stuff. 27:24.693 --> 27:30.707 [SPEAKER_00]: helps other people feel so normal and that like where you just in our heads today last night like that's why we do this. 27:30.807 --> 27:31.528 [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you. 27:31.689 --> 27:32.671 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for sharing. 27:33.841 --> 27:37.182 [SPEAKER_02]: And another big way that you can help us out is subscribe. 27:37.502 --> 27:47.584 [SPEAKER_02]: That actually, that's a one thing I'm going to ask you to do today because I read this statistic, like 36% of a podcast listening audience are actually subscribers. 27:47.624 --> 27:49.665 [SPEAKER_02]: And the rest listen, but don't subscribe. 27:49.785 --> 27:59.647 [SPEAKER_02]: And when you subscribe, it puts us in front of more couples who possibly can relate and can get away out of this and can build strong relationship together. 27:59.687 --> 28:03.368 [SPEAKER_02]: So if you have not subscribed, just like bam, hit that button. 28:04.369 --> 28:05.349 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, thank you guys all. 28:05.409 --> 28:08.352 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just a pleasure to be in front of you every single week. 28:08.532 --> 28:10.134 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you guys are awesome. 28:10.234 --> 28:19.362 [SPEAKER_02]: We're interacting more and more and more with people out there doing these discovery calls for our retreats, for our men's group, for our coaching program. 28:20.162 --> 28:42.193 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you guys because it's it's a pleasure to meet you guys are some great people out there And like that you feel like you already know us when we have that discovery call and it feels like so safe Because I feel the same I feel like I already know them I know like could be someone across the entire world and I'm like oh my gosh I love you guys Anyway, thank you so much for listening take care of yourself take care of each other. 28:42.213 --> 28:42.613 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye bye. 28:42.753 --> 28:42.993 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye bye 28:45.833 --> 28:53.549 [SPEAKER_01]: Just singin' on the train, me and you listening to the rain Me and you, we are the same, me and you