WEBVTT 00:00.291 --> 00:11.334 [SPEAKER_01]: Now playing open for this is open floor Sports Illustrated's Chris Manics back at an NDA podcast with Sports Illustrated senior writer. 00:11.595 --> 00:19.277 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's time that the world gets to know my guy Chris Manics I think your opinion shared by everyone and now it begins now it begins 00:23.375 --> 00:38.406 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Sports Illustrated's open floor podcast your one-stop shop for discussion around the NBA's latest trades, transactions, and rumors, as you've already been able to tell, Chris Manix is not with us this week. 00:38.566 --> 00:40.607 [SPEAKER_01]: I am Liam McEwen and filling in for him. 00:41.128 --> 00:43.609 [SPEAKER_01]: He has taken a well-earned break in the month of August. 00:43.950 --> 00:47.092 [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody's favorite slow month of the basketball season. 00:47.572 --> 00:51.295 [SPEAKER_01]: Even the best national reporter in the game doesn't need a break as crazy as it is to think about. 00:51.775 --> 00:59.492 [SPEAKER_01]: With me today, I am joined by Blake Silverman, my sports illustrated NBA colleague and all-around good guy, rocking an excellent mustache. 00:59.812 --> 01:00.734 [SPEAKER_01]: Blake, so much. 01:00.975 --> 01:01.897 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for coming on. 01:02.708 --> 01:06.650 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, thanks, Liam, for bringing me along for the ride. 01:06.750 --> 01:09.091 [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, happy to chat some hoops. 01:09.231 --> 01:10.511 [SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, it's August. 01:10.551 --> 01:13.913 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's the slowest month of the MBA calendar. 01:14.013 --> 01:16.394 [SPEAKER_02]: But there's still a lot to talk about. 01:16.494 --> 01:17.995 [SPEAKER_02]: LeBron is behind us. 01:18.435 --> 01:21.616 [SPEAKER_02]: There's some recent news, some unanswered questions. 01:21.676 --> 01:24.958 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm looking forward to chatting with you as a manics. 01:25.058 --> 01:29.420 [SPEAKER_02]: Is there some, is on some much deserve time off? 01:30.518 --> 01:34.341 [SPEAKER_01]: And the whole LeBron thing really has kind of set the calendar back on us a little bit. 01:34.421 --> 01:42.469 [SPEAKER_01]: Usually there's a there's a slow period before August the last couple of weeks July or usually fairly uneventful when it comes to the NBA. 01:42.529 --> 01:45.231 [SPEAKER_01]: But LeBron had us on edge for almost the entire month. 01:45.371 --> 01:49.615 [SPEAKER_01]: And now it really now we're about two weeks out from his decision. 01:49.655 --> 01:52.838 [SPEAKER_01]: It really does feel like the dust has finally settled. 01:53.258 --> 02:07.750 [SPEAKER_01]: We can look back on what's happened this off season with a more holistic look for full view and really understand what the kind of the landscape the league is going to look like there are still some outstanding questions that we discuss every day on sports illustrated MBA page. 02:08.680 --> 02:15.462 [SPEAKER_01]: like the jail and during contract situation, paid in Watson, every day trade rumors, which didn't see that one coming. 02:16.162 --> 02:19.263 [SPEAKER_01]: But at large, you know, the pieces are in place. 02:19.803 --> 02:26.885 [SPEAKER_01]: And so one of the teams that I've found really interesting to think about in terms of the grand scheme of how their offseason went and how 02:27.585 --> 02:31.587 [SPEAKER_01]: kind of they're slotting into their respective conference competitions and the pistons. 02:31.667 --> 02:46.952 [SPEAKER_01]: I really wanted to take some time to discuss their offseason because I think it's one of the more interesting teams in terms of they made, they made moves and they made moves that were specifically designed to address their weaknesses, but I don't know if it's entirely clear. 02:48.033 --> 02:51.614 [SPEAKER_01]: If they got that much better when compared to last season, obviously, 02:51.914 --> 03:02.521 [SPEAKER_01]: Detroit won 60 games last season on the back of the second best defense in the NBA behind only the Thunder defensive rating, but they swapped out a couple of one very good defender in a solid defender. 03:02.541 --> 03:08.044 [SPEAKER_01]: They traded Isaiah Stewart to the Grizzlies and then they let Tobias Harris leave and free agency. 03:09.148 --> 03:18.516 [SPEAKER_01]: After that, they drafted a buco-corey at a Stanford after you've scored 23 points of game as a freshman, so you have a little de-mutative point guard off the bench, you can get buckets. 03:18.897 --> 03:28.746 [SPEAKER_01]: They signed John Collins to what initially seemed to be an expensive free agent deal, but ended up being effectively a $1,17 million deal to replace Harris in the starting lineup. 03:29.286 --> 03:39.721 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they traded for Isaiah Joe as the thunder continue to try to avoid the second apron offloaded Joe who is one of the best movement shooters in the NBA, but is not exactly a high minutes high usage. 03:40.351 --> 03:40.691 [SPEAKER_01]: player. 03:41.131 --> 03:54.394 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of transactions, the rotation is going to look really, really different in Detroit next season, and assuming that Duran is going to be back in the lineup, maybe not happy with his salary, but he is going to be back in the lineup, I think we're pretty confident in that. 03:54.954 --> 04:03.836 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's going to be very intriguing to see how their games have changed, how their game will change based on kind of the different person that they're going to have out there. 04:03.896 --> 04:05.956 [SPEAKER_01]: So Blake, I mean, give me your, you know, your Detroit guy. 04:05.976 --> 04:09.117 [SPEAKER_01]: So how about you give me your impressions of what the business did this obviously. 04:10.297 --> 04:24.323 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it's interesting in the context of the Eastern Conference, because obviously Miami went out and got Janice, Philly, just formed a super team out of nowhere. 04:24.383 --> 04:28.364 [SPEAKER_02]: The nicks are the defending champions in these getting Tyrese Halbert and back. 04:28.404 --> 04:30.265 [SPEAKER_02]: You can go on and on with this conference. 04:31.026 --> 04:33.106 [SPEAKER_02]: The pistons were the number one seed last year. 04:33.186 --> 04:34.527 [SPEAKER_02]: They won 60 games. 04:35.167 --> 04:36.308 [SPEAKER_02]: Pretty much out of nowhere. 04:37.673 --> 04:52.083 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a question if they'll get there, but I'm not as convinced that they're going to take as much of a step back or be an afterthought in this conference because gate cutting 04:54.872 --> 04:59.695 [SPEAKER_02]: One of the best players, definitely one of the best guards in the conference in the entire NBA. 04:59.735 --> 05:11.861 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he was first team all in the A last year, and I mean, Jalen Bronson was the guy he was in the playoff, but I think as long as you have Cade Cunningham in a strong enough supporting cast around him. 05:12.521 --> 05:25.025 [SPEAKER_02]: Jalen Durin is obviously still the biggest question mark after he had an all star season and really was barely absent for most of if not all of the post season. 05:25.865 --> 05:32.387 [SPEAKER_02]: But like you said, he should be back next year, whether it's on a new deal or he plays out the qualifying offer. 05:33.426 --> 05:36.789 [SPEAKER_02]: I do think losing Tobias Harris is a big loss. 05:36.849 --> 05:39.691 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I like what the Spurs did going out to get him. 05:40.772 --> 05:55.525 [SPEAKER_02]: He's just been a great presence, both on the floor and in the locker room and this team that has been growing and took two steps forward in both the seasons since he reunited with the team. 05:56.683 --> 06:00.869 [SPEAKER_02]: I do think John Collins is a decent fit. 06:01.030 --> 06:04.154 [SPEAKER_02]: I actually like it, maybe a bit more of the consensus because 06:05.209 --> 06:10.194 [SPEAKER_02]: He's a lob threat, Kade Cunningham is one of those guys who needs rim runners next to him. 06:10.235 --> 06:12.337 [SPEAKER_02]: That's why Jalen Dern worked so well. 06:12.837 --> 06:21.827 [SPEAKER_02]: A Sartamson doesn't give you much on offense, but he can make things happen near the rim a little bit, too, or at least catchal hobs from Kade. 06:22.228 --> 06:26.773 [SPEAKER_02]: So I like what Collins brings in that sense, and he can also space the floor a little bit. 06:27.831 --> 06:47.727 [SPEAKER_02]: The biggest issue over the past few seasons in Detroit has been shooting and then specifically last season when you take this step and are trying to suddenly make a run to the Eastern Conference Finals, maybe even the NBA Finals, there's just not enough next to Cade playmaking wise to get things going. 06:49.128 --> 06:50.831 [SPEAKER_02]: you mentioned they drafted a quarry. 06:50.871 --> 07:03.189 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure that they did enough to address the secondary ballhandling and Facilitating aspect, but I think as long as kids there and continues to be the player that he is like 07:04.170 --> 07:07.791 [SPEAKER_02]: He can take this team to to the next level. 07:07.831 --> 07:25.075 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean the next level now is the eastern conference finals Which will be hard to do in this deck conference, but I think they should still be up there as as a contender Maybe not in the same tier as like a filly and New York especially while there's jail and duren situation works. 07:25.115 --> 07:26.755 [SPEAKER_02]: It's all out self out, but 07:28.427 --> 07:32.530 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure, I think they got better, actually. 07:32.550 --> 07:46.461 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure how much better I don't think they got as much better as some other teams in the conference, but I think stylistically replacing Collins with Harris works, you had more shooting with Isaiah Joe. 07:47.582 --> 07:55.167 [SPEAKER_02]: And then you still have some strong depth pieces, like Isaiah Stewart is a big loss defensively, but Paul Reed was great in the playoff. 07:56.268 --> 08:01.170 [SPEAKER_02]: I think they'll still be in there. 08:01.470 --> 08:11.973 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure if you can make a run against some of the other teams in the East, but I think they'll at least be a tough opponent that no one really wants to see in the playoffs. 08:12.905 --> 08:29.553 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you really hit the nail on the head with all your references to Kate Gunningham because I think while I have a different opinion on whether or not the pistons got better, I think the decision making was adhering to the right north star, which is all of these moves were made to make Kate Gunningham's life easier. 08:30.094 --> 08:32.955 [SPEAKER_01]: And it will absolutely be easier. 08:33.523 --> 08:36.404 [SPEAKER_01]: They, as you noted, they didn't really get another ball handler. 08:36.484 --> 08:53.408 [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't have the true number two that you want out of a contender in terms of a guy who can create on his own when Kate is both on and off the floor, who can actually demand defenses pay attention to him when Kate has the ball outside of simply being a shooting or a lob threat. 08:53.928 --> 08:59.990 [SPEAKER_01]: But just from a kind of how the flow of the game is gonna unfold now. 09:00.630 --> 09:03.531 [SPEAKER_01]: It is going to be more versatile for the pistons. 09:03.571 --> 09:05.352 [SPEAKER_01]: They are going to have more ways to score. 09:05.392 --> 09:10.914 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just dish it out to Harris or Carousel avert in the corner and hope they can make a shot. 09:11.094 --> 09:16.636 [SPEAKER_01]: Or do one of their un-un-recommended isolations that sometimes works out the most of the time. 09:18.009 --> 09:25.695 [SPEAKER_01]: But these guys, the thing is that they took away to reliable defenders and Stewart at times was a great, great defender. 09:26.315 --> 09:30.798 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that, and they replaced them with guys who can be attacked on that end. 09:30.818 --> 09:33.240 [SPEAKER_01]: We're not just like, you know, it could be passable. 09:33.280 --> 09:39.845 [SPEAKER_01]: But like, a quarry expectations for a defensive leash should obviously be in the basement as a rookie and a smaller athlete. 09:41.346 --> 09:43.528 [SPEAKER_01]: Isaiah Joe is not out there to play defense. 09:44.008 --> 09:53.035 [SPEAKER_01]: Collins has the size he has the frame to defend at a decent level, but he is a little small for a true four. 09:53.275 --> 10:00.681 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you compare him to Harris, who, you know, big solid, smart defender who knows kind of where he needs to be and is able to switch on. 10:00.941 --> 10:09.367 [SPEAKER_01]: probably most players who aren't of five or one, it is I think those ripple effects are going to be felt in a pretty serious way. 10:09.507 --> 10:26.099 [SPEAKER_01]: And then there is the fact of the matter that as a result of the lack of secondary, you know, kind of dangerous playmakers, I don't see how the playoffs are going to go that much differently in regards to how defenses are going to load up on Cade and how much 10:29.886 --> 10:33.630 [SPEAKER_01]: Are they more capable of beating them than last year's roster in that regard? 10:34.270 --> 10:39.576 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's the possibility, but it's not like we're looking at a bunch of proven playoff performance here. 10:40.769 --> 10:46.593 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but they're competing in a much tougher eastern conference on top of kind of our perception of the team. 10:46.613 --> 10:55.900 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not, you know, I think 60 wins from a such a young team, you think maybe it's the start of like the next great East power. 10:56.420 --> 10:58.822 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's hard to buy into that completely for the pistons. 10:58.842 --> 10:59.883 [SPEAKER_01]: They are absolutely great. 10:59.943 --> 11:02.445 [SPEAKER_01]: They are good with the potential to be great. 11:02.865 --> 11:04.186 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want to sound too low on them. 11:04.226 --> 11:06.908 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're talking like four or five see at the absolute worst. 11:06.968 --> 11:09.490 [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't especially given where they were two or three years ago. 11:10.448 --> 11:11.788 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what an awesome thing. 11:12.428 --> 11:18.611 [SPEAKER_01]: But when we're talking about the championship expectations, they now carry these moves were a little underwhelming to me. 11:18.651 --> 11:22.514 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it make, but again, most important thing is that Cade's life is easier. 11:23.174 --> 11:32.759 [SPEAKER_01]: And it will be, there will be different ways for them to score different ways for him to do is kind of manipulate the defense and open up those cracks. 11:32.859 --> 11:39.263 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's gonna be really interesting to see, particularly the Paul Reed of it all, because that guy was awesome during the playoffs. 11:39.303 --> 11:41.344 [SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoyed watching Paul Reed go to work. 11:42.024 --> 11:45.366 [SPEAKER_01]: against the Cavaliers in particular. 11:45.386 --> 11:52.709 [SPEAKER_01]: And more run for him is going to be really, really interesting because I think there's a big untapped bag there of offensive potential. 11:53.130 --> 11:56.551 [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean he has the tools to be like useful defender. 11:56.611 --> 12:03.915 [SPEAKER_01]: I know it's not really hasn't been his calling card, but as sort of a a quicker five, those guys can definitely bring something to the table. 12:03.975 --> 12:04.095 [SPEAKER_01]: So 12:04.848 --> 12:11.555 [SPEAKER_01]: Overall, we're a little split on what they did, but I do want to credit uh, Trash and Langdon in the front office for not sitting still. 12:11.656 --> 12:13.077 [SPEAKER_01]: They made, they made moves. 12:13.117 --> 12:19.204 [SPEAKER_01]: They did not want to bank on kind of what happened this year as what is going to be the foundation going forward. 12:19.224 --> 12:21.266 [SPEAKER_01]: They knew there were flaws in this team. 12:21.286 --> 12:22.107 [SPEAKER_01]: They had to address. 12:22.588 --> 12:24.190 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think they tried to address them. 12:24.310 --> 12:25.412 [SPEAKER_01]: Did they fix them? 12:25.812 --> 12:32.041 [SPEAKER_01]: No, but I also, this isn't one of those situations where I'm sitting here pointing at three other things and being like, oh, well, they could have done this. 12:32.061 --> 12:33.162 [SPEAKER_01]: And I would have solved that problem. 12:33.563 --> 12:38.249 [SPEAKER_01]: It's more they did what they could with the resources they had and the opportunities that they had. 12:39.533 --> 12:46.675 [SPEAKER_02]: And they're still set up to make a, like this isn't a team that's made a big splash in the trade market. 12:47.156 --> 12:49.336 [SPEAKER_02]: They still own all their picks. 12:49.496 --> 12:52.617 [SPEAKER_02]: They have Ron Holland, they could trade. 12:52.657 --> 12:54.218 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, maybe he takes a leap. 12:54.298 --> 12:56.959 [SPEAKER_02]: They, I mean, the Duran of it all. 12:56.979 --> 13:00.280 [SPEAKER_02]: This is all unknown until we know what happens with Jayland Duran. 13:00.340 --> 13:04.181 [SPEAKER_02]: But like a Sar Thompson is extension eligible to. 13:04.261 --> 13:08.563 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the Duran Thompson and Kate are like the clear. 13:09.003 --> 13:21.258 [SPEAKER_02]: core right now, I mean, turns a little bit murky with his contract stuff, but like a lot of the defense concerns that you mentioned, I agree with Isaiah Stewart was huge defensively. 13:21.278 --> 13:24.942 [SPEAKER_02]: It was weird when he fell out of the playoff rotation for a little bit. 13:25.957 --> 13:41.723 [SPEAKER_02]: I do think a Sard Thompson is like that good of a defender where maybe he could make up for some defensive holes that the team has to plug and they're calling card was their defense last year and Kate was able to make things work on on offense so. 13:42.543 --> 13:50.413 [SPEAKER_02]: as long as they're able to keep things up defensively at a similar level and cave cunning ham still does what he does. 13:50.473 --> 13:58.542 [SPEAKER_02]: I think they'll be toward the top of the eastern conference and maybe this is the team that looks to make a splash at the trade deadline. 13:58.582 --> 13:59.403 [SPEAKER_02]: They've been very 14:01.345 --> 14:21.418 [SPEAKER_02]: Not hesitant, I just maybe think the right move hasn't presented itself, but they're in as good a position as any other team to make a move with some of the acquisitions they made this off season and not just automatically maxing Jlandern which just keeps them flexible moving forward. 14:21.458 --> 14:23.699 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think they're off seasons a little TBD. 14:25.200 --> 14:33.767 [SPEAKER_01]: And it is, I think, at its core, right, it's a little bit take a small step back to potentially take a big step forward. 14:33.827 --> 14:40.292 [SPEAKER_01]: They're taking a small step back on defense, because I don't think for all the concerns I mentioned, the bottom isn't going to fall out of these guys. 14:40.793 --> 14:47.038 [SPEAKER_01]: During Thompson and Kate, we're the, like, three-headed monster of that defense in Thompson, obviously, his playoff run. 14:47.298 --> 14:51.722 [SPEAKER_01]: When people are talking about how awesome your defense is and the playoff run, you're a freaking awesome defender. 14:52.482 --> 15:14.907 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but that sort of concept of taking that's that back in hopes of taking a bigger set forward, whether it's right now or kind of like a two to three year plan is something we saw a lot of in the NBA this off season in to a degree I haven't really seen before in terms because it requires a lot of self-awareness, right, to understand that you have an in a flaw in heroin in the roster, you've assembled. 15:15.535 --> 15:22.358 [SPEAKER_01]: And that it might maybe negatively impact other parts of your roster, but you need to do things to address those flaws. 15:22.799 --> 15:29.702 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think Boston is a really good example of that with the Celtics, probably the most extreme example of that. 15:29.782 --> 15:35.985 [SPEAKER_01]: But one of the other teams that I've been thinking about a lot this offseason, and then who fit that similar profile of the timber ones. 15:36.565 --> 15:41.931 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they, you know, traded Julius Randall and Nasrid effectively for Lamello ball. 15:42.151 --> 15:56.487 [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, what obviously, what a huge move, what a huge swing by Tim Connelly, which is not at all a surprise from him, but still given, you know, kind of the reputation of Minnesota sports in the kind of the whole 15:56.907 --> 15:58.869 [SPEAKER_01]: They found so much success in recent years. 15:58.929 --> 15:59.709 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a bold move. 15:59.730 --> 16:03.152 [SPEAKER_01]: And I really, really think it's so interesting and it's one of those. 16:04.073 --> 16:12.039 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it might have gotten lost in the mix a little bit because it happened days after the draft days before free agency opened days before the jail and brown trade. 16:22.113 --> 16:28.815 [SPEAKER_01]: is tier one league pass material next year on the court and the timber wheels are opening it stays that way on the court off the court. 16:28.835 --> 16:29.736 [SPEAKER_01]: It could get real interesting. 16:30.056 --> 16:40.439 [SPEAKER_01]: But on the court, I mean, these guys are such an interesting pairing of talent as ball handlers and scores that I really can't wait to see how it works. 16:40.719 --> 16:45.861 [SPEAKER_01]: But it is to me clear that they are going to be worse next year. 16:46.521 --> 16:47.502 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that 16:48.592 --> 17:08.675 [SPEAKER_01]: The Nasrede Julia's Randall losses are make this like a two or three year kind of not even a rebuild or retool it's sort of just kind of like a slight changing of direction for the timber wolves because they have jay to McDonald's is going to have to play the for now Anthony Edwards is going to have to do a lot more work as a point of attack defender. 17:09.199 --> 17:24.624 [SPEAKER_01]: and sort of setting the tone in that regard, but at the inherent core of this like move was the decision to take the ball out of Anthony Edwards's hands in order to make again like the k-thing in order to make his life easier. 17:25.640 --> 17:50.405 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, is it going to be worth the defensive, you know, drop off that they have going from having a like five good defenders and one line up to having only a couple with one like Lamello love his offensive game is defense he tried hard last year for the first time, but in terms of his overall, you know, defensive IQ and that sort of thing, it's not quite what the timber wolves have grown used to see. 17:51.293 --> 17:58.126 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think, but I think the benefit is that Anthony Edwards could be in line for one of the most explosive scoring years that we've seen. 17:58.166 --> 18:03.556 [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, Blake, what did you kind of, now that we've had almost two months now to digest this, what did you think of that move? 18:05.270 --> 18:09.153 [SPEAKER_02]: I liked it for Minnesota. 18:09.333 --> 18:19.921 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think it's interesting because in the last, I think you just have to do something to try and compete with the likes of the thunder and the spurs. 18:20.061 --> 18:25.545 [SPEAKER_02]: The wolves came up back to back trips to the Western Conference Finals. 18:25.585 --> 18:26.646 [SPEAKER_02]: They take a step back. 18:26.686 --> 18:28.167 [SPEAKER_02]: They run into San Antonio. 18:29.268 --> 18:35.050 [SPEAKER_02]: It's sort of like, oh, Matt, like, what are we going to do to get back and get over the hump? 18:35.110 --> 18:44.033 [SPEAKER_02]: Because these other two teams, I mean, Oklahoma City, a ton of shedding went on there, this offseason, but they're going to be right back there. 18:44.693 --> 18:54.637 [SPEAKER_02]: And it just feels like okay see in San Antonio, are going to be this class of the last four in undetermined amount of years. 18:54.737 --> 18:55.217 [SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, 18:58.735 --> 19:04.717 [SPEAKER_02]: I think Minnesota just realized it had to make a move to do something. 19:06.197 --> 19:13.379 [SPEAKER_02]: We haven't, I mean, the Hornets were one of the best and most exciting teams in the NBA after all, start break last year. 19:13.399 --> 19:15.540 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, Melo was a big part of that. 19:15.680 --> 19:21.562 [SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of that goes into Brandon Miller, con Kinnipple, the supporting cast they had around it. 19:22.485 --> 19:27.508 [SPEAKER_02]: But we haven't seen Lamello on a playoff team, like a true contender. 19:28.028 --> 19:32.271 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm interested to see if there is an adjustment period because I'm with you. 19:32.291 --> 19:35.453 [SPEAKER_02]: This team is gonna be super exciting to watch. 19:35.873 --> 19:41.757 [SPEAKER_02]: And the defensive concerns that inherently come with, Lamello, I'm not, 19:42.357 --> 19:47.419 [SPEAKER_02]: Super concerned about just because you have Anthony Edwards, you bring A.O. 19:47.980 --> 19:52.862 [SPEAKER_02]: to soon move back on a big extension and then you have Jade McDaniels and Rudy Gopair. 19:53.923 --> 19:56.884 [SPEAKER_02]: I think depth is the biggest question with this team. 19:57.464 --> 20:05.568 [SPEAKER_02]: Like you mentioned, maybe this year isn't the year, but maybe they retool next season and obviously Dante 20:09.670 --> 20:13.672 [SPEAKER_02]: is going to miss at the very least the great majority of next season. 20:14.653 --> 20:22.517 [SPEAKER_02]: They do have some intriguing depth pieces, still like I really like how they brought Jalen Clark back on a really affordable deal. 20:22.997 --> 20:26.739 [SPEAKER_02]: He is an incredible defender as a guard. 20:26.779 --> 20:31.942 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he can put some of the best players in the league and in jail pretty much. 20:32.102 --> 20:32.522 [SPEAKER_02]: In minutes, 20:38.145 --> 20:47.513 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and they have Joe and Baron Jay who, uh, to who the team's really excited about he could be an interesting big off the bench. 20:47.853 --> 20:56.341 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think the starting group is one of the more exciting ones in the league and like if I was just looking at that. 20:57.318 --> 21:02.482 [SPEAKER_02]: I would think that they could potentially make a run in the West. 21:02.502 --> 21:10.388 [SPEAKER_02]: I know there's this narrative around Lamello that he's not a winning player and all that. 21:10.748 --> 21:12.209 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm still a fan of him. 21:12.249 --> 21:18.714 [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's one of the best playmakers in the league, and he can shoot three, he's at a high rate, and he's just nifty. 21:19.235 --> 21:23.078 [SPEAKER_02]: Players like that are tough to stop, and then he put Anthony Edwards next to him. 21:23.818 --> 21:26.180 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a really high-powered duo. 21:26.761 --> 21:29.583 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just not sure if they have the depth right now. 21:30.083 --> 21:41.412 [SPEAKER_02]: They had to dump Randall and send out Nows Reed to make this all work, but especially with the D even Chanzo injury. 21:42.013 --> 21:48.738 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm afraid they just might not be deep enough when it gets toward that to the regular season and into the playoffs to 21:49.439 --> 21:57.823 [SPEAKER_02]: take on some of those Western conference giants, but I am definitely super intrigued about how this is all going to look. 21:59.064 --> 22:01.485 [SPEAKER_01]: I am hoping for some Rocco's and Kartski minutes. 22:01.845 --> 22:03.726 [SPEAKER_01]: I would love the some Rocco. 22:04.106 --> 22:05.347 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I love that. 22:05.647 --> 22:06.607 [SPEAKER_01]: That'd be so fun. 22:06.687 --> 22:08.388 [SPEAKER_02]: Mary Jane Colin Blocko. 22:08.408 --> 22:09.169 [SPEAKER_02]: I know. 22:10.069 --> 22:11.230 [SPEAKER_01]: That is fantastic. 22:11.810 --> 22:13.130 [SPEAKER_01]: The Blockman Blocko. 22:14.011 --> 22:15.512 [SPEAKER_01]: I like, I like Mary Jane too. 22:15.552 --> 22:18.053 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the center rotation is one of those like 22:18.817 --> 22:25.980 [SPEAKER_01]: really nerdy basketball things that I'm like thinking about at night, like girlfriend's trying to talk to me and I'm like, what, no. 22:26.640 --> 22:30.462 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, no, it's, I, I agree with you on the Malloy. 22:30.482 --> 22:31.142 [SPEAKER_01]: So exciting. 22:31.202 --> 22:36.484 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think very specifically, it doesn't necessarily matter about the winning player thing. 22:36.524 --> 22:43.427 [SPEAKER_01]: If this guy is taking like four pull-up threes per game from the top of the three and can make like 35, 40% of them. 22:44.820 --> 22:49.902 [SPEAKER_01]: That specific shot is so dangerous in the modern NBA. 22:49.982 --> 22:53.163 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it is the reason that Steph Curry was so generational. 22:53.463 --> 22:59.485 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just that he shoots 10 or 11, three's per game and makes almost half of them in a truly alien-like fashion. 23:00.106 --> 23:00.306 [SPEAKER_01]: Bye. 23:01.086 --> 23:29.992 [SPEAKER_01]: When you run a pick and roll and you can make the open shot that you get every single time at the top of the key off the pick and roll, it is an unstoppable offensive for it like that's an unstoppable play effectively and doesn't go in every time, but defenses have to treat it like it might go in every time and you can just rip everything apart from there, which is what the horn it's more or less did with the metal last year, Charlie's system was all about that shot and paint touches that lead to more perimeter shots. 23:31.135 --> 23:51.120 [SPEAKER_01]: what are you going to do when you put a guy like Anthony Edwards right next to him right that's you know 28 points per game last year as the primary ball handler and defenses could blitz him without a care on the world because they weren't worried about what uh you know Julius Randall was going to do with a four on three or even chance I was the best at it because he could shoot really well from deep but like 23:52.288 --> 24:15.757 [SPEAKER_01]: They weren't, they aren't master playmakers like Lamelo and I think for the valid criticisms you could have about Lamelo's game, there's no doubt that he has some of the best court vision in the entire NBA and putting him in an environment where he is going to be expected to win is going to be very interesting as well because I think it is fair to say that he hasn't really earned the reputation of being a winning player yet. 24:16.237 --> 24:30.169 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's also not like the Hornets have been doing much lately in terms of what his supporting cast has looked like and kind of, you know, the new direction that the franchise currently has is a breath of fresh air in a way that the Hornets haven't felt since they drafted Campbell Walker. 24:30.209 --> 24:35.493 [SPEAKER_01]: So it is a little bit, I think, you know, the change of scenery aspect of it is going to be very interesting. 24:37.045 --> 24:37.345 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 24:37.365 --> 24:43.269 [SPEAKER_02]: And part of the reason why the hornets were so good last year is they just scored more than everyone. 24:43.309 --> 24:47.332 [SPEAKER_02]: They could make threes quicker than anyone else could keep up with. 24:47.873 --> 24:50.214 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's it's interesting. 24:50.314 --> 24:50.755 [SPEAKER_02]: And it 24:51.905 --> 25:01.849 [SPEAKER_02]: beneficial, putting lamellable on a team where you have four strong, if not elite defenders next to you in the starting lineup. 25:03.370 --> 25:10.393 [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously lamella wasn't responsible for all that offense, but he was responsible for a great deal of it. 25:10.833 --> 25:16.136 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that could raise his floor a little bit and just 25:16.956 --> 25:29.613 [SPEAKER_02]: make him look a whole lot better playing around defensive-minded group and all these superior defenders like you're talking about with an AOJ and McDaniels and Ruby Go Bear. 25:30.193 --> 25:34.299 [SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of teams who have done absolutely nothing this off season. 25:34.719 --> 25:41.307 [SPEAKER_01]: Very confusingly, the New Orleans Pelicans have stood at stocks still after finishing as one of the worst teams in the NBA last year. 25:42.008 --> 25:52.280 [SPEAKER_01]: They've had a decent end to the season once everybody got healthy, which I think is a lot of the reason why the decision makers, Joe Dumares, and Troy Weaver are 25:53.007 --> 26:11.921 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, kind of standing still, but the pelicans have almost literally done nothing they retained the Andre Jordan they signed some guys to exhibit nine and ten contracts their rumors that they want to get in on the Benedict Matherin Restricted free agency, but at large, it seems they are entirely content to run it back. 26:12.202 --> 26:16.585 [SPEAKER_01]: This is something that is confused Blake and I quite a bit over the last month that we've talked a lot about it. 26:17.012 --> 26:21.956 [SPEAKER_01]: in our Slack chats, but we are now going to bring it to you, the audience, the pelicans, they have done nothing. 26:21.996 --> 26:23.357 [SPEAKER_01]: What would we have done? 26:23.777 --> 26:26.880 [SPEAKER_01]: What would we do to fix the New Orleans Pelicans going forward? 26:27.200 --> 26:28.061 [SPEAKER_01]: Blake, you have the floor. 26:29.562 --> 26:33.065 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it starts and stops with 26:33.948 --> 26:37.189 [SPEAKER_02]: you out of build around Jeremiah fears and Derek Queen. 26:37.370 --> 26:39.610 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean both had great rookie seasons. 26:40.131 --> 26:51.656 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean the Zion of it all is the biggest question he is contract is is going down he has one year that he'll make 42 million next season and then 26:52.537 --> 26:54.578 [SPEAKER_02]: non-guaranteed the year after that. 26:54.698 --> 26:58.380 [SPEAKER_02]: So is this the time we see as I on trade. 26:59.060 --> 27:04.062 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that New Orleans was ready to move on from him yet. 27:04.162 --> 27:08.304 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he had when he was on the floor, he had a good season last year. 27:08.324 --> 27:09.665 [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's still one of the 27:10.445 --> 27:29.107 [SPEAKER_02]: more dominant players in this league when he's able to stay on the floor and then this year all the sudden you have Jordan pool who's a $34 million expiring contract that will come off your books a year from now and give you that much room to build around your young players. 27:31.327 --> 27:36.311 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm confused about their plan with Ray Murphy. 27:36.892 --> 27:40.835 [SPEAKER_02]: His name has come up on and trade conversations. 27:40.915 --> 27:49.542 [SPEAKER_02]: With Detroit, is that a name that Detroit wants to send out a number of first round picks and some interesting young pieces for? 27:50.303 --> 28:14.843 [SPEAKER_02]: he's signed for three more seasons and he's a great player like he could very well be a part of this core for the foreseeable future and how it's going right now it seems like Joe Dumars and Troy Weaver want to keep it that way but I mean there's no way that this team is is competing in the West next year maybe they surprise a little bit maybe fears and queen 28:19.447 --> 28:26.270 [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think like realistically, they're going to make much of anything happen. 28:26.330 --> 28:30.651 [SPEAKER_02]: So, a tree Murphy is their best trade asset right now. 28:30.712 --> 28:39.035 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you can make an argument for herb Jones, who is on a little bit more of an affordable contract, but he's a little bit older. 28:39.715 --> 28:42.596 [SPEAKER_02]: It just seems like fears and queen are untouchable. 28:42.716 --> 28:49.819 [SPEAKER_02]: So for me, what I would have done is I would have traded tray Murphy, even though I love the guy. 28:49.859 --> 28:51.440 [SPEAKER_02]: I think you would be a great piece. 28:51.580 --> 28:53.661 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm really any team in the NBA. 28:53.681 --> 28:56.322 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think you have to capitalize on that and get 28:57.262 --> 29:04.571 [SPEAKER_02]: as many picks and as many young pieces that you can that you could see being a part of this team. 29:05.051 --> 29:10.918 [SPEAKER_02]: Moving forward, the good news is they control their future in the draft. 29:11.399 --> 29:16.484 [SPEAKER_02]: They have swap rights, first round swap rights with the bucks next season, which is 29:17.105 --> 29:19.546 [SPEAKER_02]: super interesting after what Milwaukee did. 29:19.566 --> 29:23.968 [SPEAKER_02]: And that is top four protected. 29:23.988 --> 29:29.770 [SPEAKER_02]: And if it both New Orleans and Milwaukee's picks land in the top four, New Orleans gets both of them. 29:30.450 --> 29:33.112 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think they're in a position to 29:35.073 --> 29:42.899 [SPEAKER_02]: just the rebuild is going to continue for certainly next season probably the season after that. 29:42.919 --> 29:50.946 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think Zion Williamson and likely not tray Murphy will be on the team past it. 29:51.827 --> 29:53.888 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm just in the mindset of 29:54.977 --> 29:59.120 [SPEAKER_02]: capitalize on these assets that you have right now, bringing in as much as possible. 29:59.820 --> 30:07.586 [SPEAKER_02]: Kick the can down the road, even though this franchise has been doing that for a long time and just been in this nowhere as well. 30:08.106 --> 30:19.934 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think, and maybe they do so at the deadline, but I do think that you just need to bring in as much as you can for the valuable pieces that I know have a ton of value around the NBA. 30:21.767 --> 30:27.449 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think part of their thinking, which is, you know, understandable is the new lottery rules next year. 30:27.849 --> 30:43.473 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you totally bought them out and sell everybody for pieces, then you're putting yourself in a position where you finish in the bottom three and you end up with a worse pick than if you kept one or two useful veterans and one five or five or six more games. 30:44.513 --> 30:48.154 [SPEAKER_01]: obviously with the bucks pick that complicates the planning a little bit. 30:49.395 --> 30:57.458 [SPEAKER_01]: I think my problem with how they've approached this offseason is that they haven't really picked a direction. 30:57.498 --> 31:07.902 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, when you look at the roster, they have multiple veteran ball handlers who expect to be a big part of the offense in Jordan pool in Dejantamari, Dejantamari, 31:08.876 --> 31:12.277 [SPEAKER_01]: who was great, and I think should probably be mentioned more in trade talks. 31:12.337 --> 31:15.898 [SPEAKER_01]: I could see why people want to see a little bit more after you recover, came back from an Achilles injury. 31:15.938 --> 31:30.482 [SPEAKER_01]: But then you got a couple of like, you have one way wings, like herb Jones in City Bay, who are not hugely useful, and you have Zion, who, as you say, is still one of the most dangerous scores in the game. 31:30.502 --> 31:31.863 [SPEAKER_01]: But when you are talking about 31:32.723 --> 31:36.106 [SPEAKER_01]: floor lifting superstars and things of that nature. 31:36.686 --> 31:39.028 [SPEAKER_01]: He is not so much one of those. 31:39.108 --> 31:40.770 [SPEAKER_01]: He succeeds in a vacuum. 31:40.790 --> 31:41.910 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a great score in the way. 31:41.970 --> 31:53.680 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if we put together a stretch of games consistently, the way that he forces the defense to react to every one of his moves towards the paint can benefit other people, but it's not as natural as a lot of these other teams. 31:54.481 --> 31:56.642 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you have fears and 31:57.623 --> 32:20.985 [SPEAKER_01]: who have showed some as rookies for sure and clearly the front office is super in on those guys like whatever else you might say about what's going on in New Orleans they are 100% invested in their young guys and yet they haven't done anything in my view this off season to accentuate them beyond banking on the idea that having as many good players as possible around them is 32:23.567 --> 32:37.337 [SPEAKER_01]: is, you know, not a crazy concept, but when we're talking about optimizing your, you know, team building, particularly in the west where you are really fighting an uphill battle against those guys, you need to move more opportunistically. 32:37.397 --> 32:45.262 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the Murphy trade situation is a clear example of them leaving something on the table where even if, you know, there are reports of 32:49.414 --> 32:51.518 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you can't 100% believe all those. 32:51.558 --> 32:58.032 [SPEAKER_01]: But like if either even remotely true, that's something you need to think about and probably pull the trigger on. 32:58.473 --> 32:59.795 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're not, you know, if... 33:01.958 --> 33:22.567 [SPEAKER_01]: It's something you need to think about and probably pull the trigger on if you're planning for the three to five year plan planning for next year, you don't trade of course you don't trade it but planning for the next couple years that is that is a risk reward balance you have to make when Murphy it did feel like it was tipping more in a reward than risk for the pelicans keeping him is absolutely defensible decision. 33:23.467 --> 33:27.948 [SPEAKER_01]: not doing anything else is not particularly defensible. 33:28.468 --> 33:31.149 [SPEAKER_01]: There is trade value for herb jones. 33:31.189 --> 33:35.190 [SPEAKER_01]: There is trade value for the expiring contract of Jordan pool. 33:35.591 --> 33:38.011 [SPEAKER_01]: There is trade value for the jantimerry. 33:38.071 --> 33:40.012 [SPEAKER_01]: There is there's a lot of different 33:41.044 --> 33:44.847 [SPEAKER_01]: Of all the different paths they could have taken, they chose the one where they stood still. 33:44.967 --> 33:53.073 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that is frustrating because we can see it seems like there were a lot of opportunities to change things. 33:53.113 --> 34:04.020 [SPEAKER_01]: And you don't want to change things for the sake of changing them, but there were tangible trades to be made that where it's like you get this guy, this guy heads out and you get assets and you're not worse next year. 34:04.241 --> 34:05.982 [SPEAKER_01]: You're not better, but you're not worse. 34:06.642 --> 34:06.842 [SPEAKER_01]: So 34:07.803 --> 34:35.365 [SPEAKER_01]: my perception of how this offseason went New Orleans is they are operating like their floor is a 35 to 40 wind team and I think it's not unreasonable to move forward with that kind of team and the effort of developing your young talent avoiding the new lottery rules and above all refusing to accept the you know notion that the West is impossible to win so there's no point in trying. 34:37.525 --> 34:42.133 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's their ceiling is a 35 to 40 wind team and that's if everybody's healthy. 34:42.754 --> 34:51.548 [SPEAKER_01]: The rookie or the rookies take a sophomore leap and everything kind of falls in the place in the exact way they're imagining, which everybody knows doesn't really. 34:53.481 --> 35:10.645 [SPEAKER_02]: And even if that's the belief the front office has, which, I mean, I'm with you, I don't agree with it, but I think there are some moves they could have made around the margins to at least accumulate some assets like nothing huge. 35:11.465 --> 35:18.886 [SPEAKER_02]: Jordan Hawkins pretty much fell out of this rotation last year and he has one year left on his rookie contract. 35:18.926 --> 35:21.067 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure there's a team out there that would, 35:21.687 --> 35:28.696 [SPEAKER_02]: take a shot on him as a depth piece like he was considered the best three point shooter in his draft class when he came into the league. 35:29.417 --> 35:31.299 [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of teams need three point shooting. 35:31.440 --> 35:35.945 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you could get anything significant for Jordan Hawkins, but you could probably get 35:36.698 --> 35:42.501 [SPEAKER_02]: a multiple second round picks that you could use in other deals and something. 35:43.161 --> 35:52.105 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and like Eve Missy is he the front office clearly believes in him too, but that's another name you could consider. 35:52.125 --> 35:56.247 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure there are some teams that would be interested in him, but it seems like he was 36:01.970 --> 36:13.572 [SPEAKER_02]: We obviously don't know what offers were on the table or if the phone was just hung up every time a team asks about a trainer, fee, or even missier, whatever it is. 36:14.940 --> 36:33.374 [SPEAKER_02]: I will give the front office some credit, though, because they took a lot of flag for the trade for Derek we in last year, giving up their unprotected first round pick in 2026 that put the pelicans in a position where they had no reason to lose this year. 36:33.434 --> 36:36.076 [SPEAKER_02]: They weren't going to be in the lottery. 36:36.216 --> 36:39.639 [SPEAKER_02]: Their pick ends up at number eight and goes to Atlanta. 36:40.179 --> 36:43.842 [SPEAKER_02]: Atlanta uses that to take Kingston Fleming's who I like. 36:44.647 --> 36:48.466 [SPEAKER_02]: did like through the draft process as a prospect, but 36:50.043 --> 37:17.394 [SPEAKER_02]: I would rather have Jeremiah Fiers and Derek Queen right now than Kingston Flaminges and some of the players that went after him so I think New Orleans at least feels pretty good about about that move at least, but otherwise I mean you've got to put a competent roster around your two young core members and hopefully get some lottery luck with these new lottery rules to put. 37:18.360 --> 37:35.213 [SPEAKER_02]: Another star, maybe two stars around them and part with some of your bigger contracts, but at least the trade for Queen last year is looking a lot more like it makes some sense than it did a year ago when Joe Duma has gave up that unprotected purchase. 37:36.113 --> 37:39.035 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we'll 100% give them the credit words do there. 37:39.556 --> 37:44.860 [SPEAKER_01]: I think in a very interesting twist of events, the Pacers trade for Zuboch where they gave up their first 37:48.172 --> 38:03.723 [SPEAKER_01]: then what the pelicans did with the queen which is very funny when you think about how dramatically different the views of those transactions where when they came down the paces you know everyone thought it was a pretty decent alby at very risky bat zoo watches a good player good center 38:04.583 --> 38:08.384 [SPEAKER_01]: And the pelicans just got destroyed for the queen trade. 38:08.424 --> 38:11.724 [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody teed off on them and it went on for an entire 12 months. 38:12.164 --> 38:15.445 [SPEAKER_01]: So I hope they're feeling good about that because it did work out really well. 38:15.485 --> 38:19.146 [SPEAKER_01]: I totally agree with you on the kind of where that came out. 38:19.546 --> 38:23.646 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously from a process versus result standpoint, maybe not the best. 38:24.166 --> 38:26.707 [SPEAKER_01]: But at the end of the day, results were all the matter in the NBA. 38:27.507 --> 38:30.548 [SPEAKER_01]: Didn't work out too too bad and excited to see what Queen does next year. 38:30.568 --> 38:33.148 [SPEAKER_01]: If anything, even with this kind of strange roster. 38:33.425 --> 38:43.190 [SPEAKER_01]: we've talked about three teams so far this podcast now we're going to switch up to a couple quick hitter items where we want to talk about some of our favorite way under the radar move trip. 38:43.930 --> 38:52.455 [SPEAKER_01]: We want to talk about some of our favorite way under the radar moves from the off season that have gone very under disgust and light of the Lebron and the Jalen and the Yanis of it all. 38:53.036 --> 39:06.918 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a big off season for big names, which means the little guys didn't get quite as much as they had quite as much attention as they deserved Blake wrote a great article on the website yesterday highlighting some of these moves So do you want to start with your favorite ones from that one Blake? 39:08.146 --> 39:14.812 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll save the one that I put on the top because you actually gave you the idea for it. 39:15.793 --> 39:18.195 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'll go to, it was my second one. 39:18.235 --> 39:21.758 [SPEAKER_02]: I really like the Maverick's taking a flyer on Zachary, Risa Shei. 39:21.778 --> 39:28.964 [SPEAKER_02]: They jump into the Lou Dort trade and get the first overall pick from two years ago. 39:29.785 --> 39:37.637 [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, Zachary Reesuchet isn't the type of star that is the top pick in most years of the draft. 39:38.458 --> 39:41.442 [SPEAKER_02]: But I still really like him as a player. 39:41.482 --> 39:43.826 [SPEAKER_02]: I think at the very least he can be 39:44.907 --> 40:03.500 [SPEAKER_02]: uh... impactful mba player a three in d guy exactly what he was in his pre-draft process he's still only twenty one years old and he had a decent season in Atlanta last year i mean his minutes went down just a touch but 40:04.120 --> 40:21.495 [SPEAKER_02]: He shot 36.8% from three and four attempts per game wasn't a huge part of what was going on there as the franchise parted with Tray Young and really built around Jalen Johnson and signed Nikita Alexander Walker and brought in C.J. 40:21.515 --> 40:21.915 [SPEAKER_02]: McCount. 40:21.995 --> 40:29.141 [SPEAKER_02]: Like it was clear that even how crazy it is to say he needed a change of scenery after two NBA season. 40:29.201 --> 40:30.483 [SPEAKER_02]: I think he went to a great 40:31.143 --> 40:32.003 [SPEAKER_02]: Destination. 40:32.043 --> 40:44.869 [SPEAKER_02]: I was thinking maybe a contender would take a shot at him as a death piece, but I really like Dallas doing it and putting him alongside Cooper Flag and what they have going on there. 40:45.009 --> 40:55.194 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't think he's going to go in like average 20-25 points a night in Dallas, but I think he is going to be able to space the floor for 40:56.014 --> 41:03.518 [SPEAKER_02]: Cooper Flag and, I mean, as long as his career rings on the team, he's a good corner threat for him. 41:04.159 --> 41:05.860 [SPEAKER_02]: So I like that move a lot. 41:05.960 --> 41:09.382 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm very intrigued to see what Risa Shay looks like in Dallas. 41:10.222 --> 41:12.043 [SPEAKER_01]: I like it for him, or sorry. 41:13.153 --> 41:14.574 [SPEAKER_01]: I like that move for the Mavericks. 41:14.614 --> 41:16.636 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a great by-low opportunity. 41:16.936 --> 41:22.421 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not so sure I like it for Risa's sake himself because the Mavericks have a billion wings who all need playing time. 41:22.801 --> 41:32.350 [SPEAKER_01]: The NaGi Marshall extension ensured that he was going to be in the rotation next year, which means you've got flag, Perez Johnson Jr., Marshall P.J. 41:32.370 --> 41:33.130 [SPEAKER_01]: Washington. 41:33.150 --> 41:40.637 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, Risa's a clay Thompson is effectively the same position at this point because he's not super quick, can't guard the two as well anymore. 41:41.330 --> 41:46.732 [SPEAKER_01]: and he seems like he's on his way out so that, you know, eliminates one of them, but even like Santiago Dama got brought in. 41:47.072 --> 41:49.293 [SPEAKER_02]: The Mavericks are taking some swag there. 41:49.333 --> 41:55.455 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the Giusey is very, very, very interested in the elite athlete. 41:55.775 --> 42:00.116 [SPEAKER_01]: And these guys are all great athletes and we'll be interesting to see how the cream rises from the crop. 42:00.197 --> 42:05.518 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the thing with Rich to say is, he just needs, he needs seasoning, man. 42:05.558 --> 42:09.340 [SPEAKER_01]: He needs minutes, he needs to be able to get out there and make mistakes. 42:11.033 --> 42:13.154 [SPEAKER_01]: figure out what he can and can't do. 42:13.354 --> 42:18.015 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think he had a little bit of that opportunity as first year at Atlanta and it went okay. 42:18.035 --> 42:25.197 [SPEAKER_01]: It's working year was relative to the expectations of the 2024 draft class being horrific. 42:25.277 --> 42:27.497 [SPEAKER_01]: He did a solid, you know, he did okay. 42:27.597 --> 42:29.838 [SPEAKER_01]: scored 12 points a game, he shot okay from three. 42:30.538 --> 42:38.500 [SPEAKER_01]: Then the next year, the expectation set in, I don't know if Quinn Snyder is really awesome at developing the young guy like young projects like that. 42:39.840 --> 42:42.162 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I do think the change of scenery is gonna help him. 42:42.362 --> 42:49.608 [SPEAKER_01]: If he can beat out those other names for like serious minutes, I think that will tell us everything we need to know about this guy's future. 42:49.628 --> 43:00.777 [SPEAKER_01]: I think if he can carve out a solid role without two or three trades coming down the pipe, he can be like an NBA rotation, you know, wing player, ceiling, no idea. 43:00.857 --> 43:02.858 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think there's a useful, there's a useful guy in there. 43:04.219 --> 43:04.600 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 43:04.740 --> 43:06.141 [SPEAKER_01]: And how's it going? 43:06.992 --> 43:07.492 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't go for it. 43:07.592 --> 43:31.170 [SPEAKER_02]: I was just going to say, I mean, it is shaping up like there is some sort of trade going on, whether it's you wrote a piece about what it means for plays future and it seems like Dallas is interested in holding on to PJ Washington and obviously, they just sign Navi Marshall to an extension, but I think there will be some moves there that maybe. 43:31.690 --> 43:32.990 [SPEAKER_02]: open up some minutes for him. 43:33.130 --> 43:50.114 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd be pretty surprised if he doesn't at least get a decent amount of bench minutes after taking the flyer just so they can collect that data and make a decision on him before his rookie contract is up and he's extension eligible next year. 43:50.194 --> 43:57.096 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm doubting he'll get an extension maybe he gets a really small one that makes a lot of sense for the maves, 44:01.397 --> 44:26.545 [SPEAKER_01]: I think this might be a win-win-win trade for everybody involved, which is rare, because the thunder needed to ditch door, because it saved them hilarious amount of money and tax penalties from the second apron, the hawks got doored, who is exactly the sort of defender that you want around your young guys to kind of teach them the, you know, the finer points of being an all NBA caliber defender, someone with serious postseason experience, 44:27.050 --> 44:35.078 [SPEAKER_01]: And then the third part of that trade that I think is going a little when a little under discussed at the time, and I'm really, I'm really interested in is the Ryan NEM hard of it all. 44:35.538 --> 44:41.844 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mavericks gave him up in, uh, to, uh, I think to give up Risha say they send NEM hard to the Hawks. 44:42.585 --> 44:46.769 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was, well, surprised and not surprised that the Mavericks gave up on him. 44:46.889 --> 44:50.933 [SPEAKER_01]: I was surprised because he was an undrafted rookie free agent, 44:52.646 --> 44:54.527 [SPEAKER_01]: did a really good job as a point guard. 44:54.887 --> 44:58.109 [SPEAKER_01]: He averaged 5.3 assists to game to only 1.4 turnovers. 44:58.790 --> 45:08.136 [SPEAKER_01]: That's super impressive for a first-year guy, particularly in undrafted rookie because there's no harder position to learn earlier earlier in your career than the point guard position. 45:08.876 --> 45:11.498 [SPEAKER_01]: And he had 23 assists in the last game of the season. 45:11.658 --> 45:21.184 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, a sister not empty calorie stats the same way that points or rebounds can be when you're on a bad team or you're playing against attacking team like the Mavericks were. 45:21.627 --> 45:24.828 [SPEAKER_01]: at the end of the season, people have to make the shots. 45:24.908 --> 45:32.330 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're on a less-than-talented team, like Nemphard was outside of flag, it's hard for those shots to be made. 45:32.350 --> 45:38.891 [SPEAKER_01]: You really got to have a nose for setting your guys up and positions where they can make shots and kind of play how they wanna play. 45:39.491 --> 45:44.973 [SPEAKER_01]: And to be that talented at that as a rookie is super duper impressive. 45:45.733 --> 45:52.598 [SPEAKER_01]: Conversely, he is five foot 11 and we know Messiah is not not interested in the small guys. 45:53.018 --> 46:00.643 [SPEAKER_01]: He wants the Uber athletes and never hard as anything but that and that obviously puts a hard ceiling on how good he can be. 46:01.203 --> 46:10.708 [SPEAKER_01]: like there's only ever been one Chris Paul and even Chris Paul was an absurd athlete for his size, whereas I'd say Nimhart is an NBA caliber athlete, but he's not out jumping anybody. 46:11.348 --> 46:18.512 [SPEAKER_01]: So I get why they gave him up, but I also think that this guy could have like an extended NBA career just as like, uh, 46:18.942 --> 46:30.232 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, a bench manager where you average is five assists and one turnover a game for basically the entire, you know, his entire career and that is not, that is not a useless skill in the NBA. 46:30.292 --> 46:38.120 [SPEAKER_01]: Particularly as teams are looking more and more for these low priced, lowly priced contributors who can not make mistakes. 46:38.160 --> 46:41.002 [SPEAKER_01]: And that I think is really, the Hawks are really gonna enjoy that. 46:41.022 --> 46:44.125 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's gonna be a really valuable skill for them coming off the bench. 46:44.145 --> 46:44.526 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think 46:45.086 --> 46:51.314 [SPEAKER_02]: might go down in history as maybe what like the best part of the trade, if I may be so bold. 46:51.354 --> 46:54.138 [SPEAKER_01]: I think Dority will be good for this year, maybe next year. 46:54.158 --> 47:01.387 [SPEAKER_01]: I think Richard Shea, like I said, has a chance to carve himself out of good career in Dallas, but I think NEM hard might be like, you know, 47:01.841 --> 47:19.171 [SPEAKER_01]: the seventh or eighth most important player for the hoax next year, because I think he's good enough to be the sort of like floor organizer that every team needs, but particularly teams that are built around kind of like Omega wings like Jalen Johnson, like Jalen Johnson should have the ball most of the time. 47:19.231 --> 47:29.096 [SPEAKER_01]: Most important minutes, Jalen Johnson, Ryan Nemart should be on the floor, but to make his life easier to help him develop the other skills beyond ball handling is going to 47:30.852 --> 47:33.911 [SPEAKER_01]: Elana did an awesome job getting them hard as a part of the deal as a result. 47:35.274 --> 47:44.760 [SPEAKER_02]: I think Atlanta has a good amount of guard depth after on ball creation was a bit of a question for them. 47:44.820 --> 47:56.327 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you had Alexander Walker handling the ball a little bit, CJ McCallum, who's not a true point guard, but he can do it himself. 47:56.667 --> 47:59.289 [SPEAKER_02]: And then you go and draft Kingston Fleming's, 48:04.052 --> 48:04.632 [SPEAKER_02]: you mentioned. 48:04.652 --> 48:06.933 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's a bit of a competition. 48:06.953 --> 48:14.516 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously, Fleming's is going to get the priority to it's his role to take as the eighth pick in the draft. 48:14.576 --> 48:18.798 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think Carter and Emma Hard are 48:19.578 --> 48:27.420 [SPEAKER_02]: really competing for that backup guard second-point guard role long-term here. 48:28.120 --> 48:40.503 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're comparing the two players, I mean Devon Carter, he, I'm surprised that didn't work out in Sacramento, but a lot of things haven't worked out in Sacramento, so I guess I'm not totally shocked. 48:41.468 --> 48:44.050 [SPEAKER_02]: great defensive player. 48:44.230 --> 48:47.392 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he was a good three point shooter in college. 48:47.872 --> 48:50.094 [SPEAKER_02]: And he's still growing into his own. 48:50.114 --> 48:51.835 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think, NEM hard. 48:51.895 --> 48:53.956 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you just have both of those guys. 48:54.016 --> 48:56.738 [SPEAKER_02]: If one of them works out, you're thrilled. 48:57.399 --> 49:02.182 [SPEAKER_02]: And NEM hard being as impactful as he was as an undrafted rookie. 49:02.262 --> 49:06.465 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't hate the prediction at all that he could be the sneakiest. 49:07.265 --> 49:22.317 [SPEAKER_02]: Good piece from this trade because like you said, Jalen Johnson's going to have the ball in this hands, but they need they need a little bit more and I think they have a lot of options that can go ahead and make that roll theirs. 49:23.456 --> 49:26.979 [SPEAKER_01]: debating pack backup point guards is really what August in the NBA. 49:27.059 --> 49:37.449 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and then of course, no podcast can be held right now without discussion of LeBron James, who did famously notably sign with the Philadelphia 76ers. 49:38.029 --> 49:49.920 [SPEAKER_01]: It was LeBron's third foray in the free agency his third decision that he made, which has sparked a lot of interesting thoughts about the role he plays in the history of free agency. 49:50.200 --> 49:51.941 [SPEAKER_01]: and the best free agent signings ever. 49:52.081 --> 49:59.744 [SPEAKER_01]: And how many spots if you rank the top five best free agent signings in NBA history, how many times does the brawn come up? 50:00.524 --> 50:06.087 [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously he's the first two are maybe the top two. 50:06.167 --> 50:07.908 [SPEAKER_01]: I think my list goes as follows. 50:07.928 --> 50:08.668 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll start with my list. 50:08.708 --> 50:11.669 [SPEAKER_01]: My list goes shack to the lakers is number one. 50:11.689 --> 50:14.450 [SPEAKER_01]: I think led directly to a three-peat which the brawn never 50:18.809 --> 50:34.230 [SPEAKER_01]: big picture league ramifications that LeBron's heat signing did because that was the first like actively form super team and all that stuff and if you want to make an argument that that makes it a more important free agent signing then I wouldn't regret you but when we're talking about 50:34.650 --> 50:41.736 [SPEAKER_01]: the best reagent signings to me, it's how, you know, how directly tied to that to the team's success was that signing. 50:42.296 --> 50:50.183 [SPEAKER_01]: And Shack to the Lakers launched, you know, the first dynasty of the 2000s, but most importantly, three consecutive NBA championships. 50:50.903 --> 51:01.272 [SPEAKER_01]: Number two, LeBron to the heat, four straight NBA finals, even if he didn't win three straight, it's still obviously as good as you could possibly hope for from any kind of reagent signing. 51:02.512 --> 51:09.180 [SPEAKER_01]: Number three, LeBron to the cab back to the Cavaliers, another four straight NBA finals with one finals win. 51:09.600 --> 51:21.715 [SPEAKER_01]: Probably would have been to, if not for the next guy, Kevin Durant, who guaranteed two straight titles when he joined the Warriors in 2016, and then that brings us two number five. 51:21.935 --> 51:36.138 [SPEAKER_01]: And I am really unsure if LeBron deserves to be at number five, because I think the biggest competitor to the fifth spot on that list is Jalen Bronson, to the New York Knicks, now that he has won a championship. 51:36.478 --> 51:40.339 [SPEAKER_01]: When you take into consideration, how cheap he signed out yet. 51:40.659 --> 51:46.700 [SPEAKER_01]: When you take into consideration, how low that deal was at the time compared to the star he became, 51:47.320 --> 51:54.325 [SPEAKER_01]: how much of a savior he became to the next in terms of an on-core talent and the v-guide of build around. 51:56.046 --> 52:07.373 [SPEAKER_01]: It makes it does make me feel like he deserves the title being in the top five best free-age and signings ever even though the six are signing LeBron James in this year is all time stuff. 52:07.473 --> 52:10.676 [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, I don't know, it makes for good, good bar stool talks. 52:10.696 --> 52:11.096 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think? 52:12.273 --> 52:20.640 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I don't, I think LeBron to Philly is TBD as if one of the best free agent signings ever. 52:20.660 --> 52:23.022 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it might be the most surprising. 52:23.302 --> 52:39.636 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the other one that comes to my mind is maybe as surprising or more surprising is KD to the Warriors, but I mean, LeBron going to Philly if franchise has no prior history with they form this, 52:40.650 --> 52:49.512 [SPEAKER_02]: Instinct contender out of nowhere, it comes together quickly and LeBron deciding to join them in the twilight of his career. 52:50.752 --> 52:53.452 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was super surprising. 52:53.512 --> 52:59.134 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I had my money on the heat calves or warriors. 52:59.974 --> 53:06.295 [SPEAKER_02]: Filly was interesting when you was still making his decision, but I never really took them seriously because 53:07.120 --> 53:21.769 [SPEAKER_02]: I just, I didn't think he would go that route and it goes to show you how really undecided he was on his future all during last season and making this sudden move to join Philly super quickly. 53:22.370 --> 53:25.011 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it might be the most surprising. 53:25.111 --> 53:25.652 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm with you. 53:25.692 --> 53:27.433 [SPEAKER_02]: It's up in the air as the weather. 53:27.513 --> 53:32.796 [SPEAKER_02]: It's one of the best free agent signings ever because even if Philly goes on to win a title, 53:34.364 --> 53:41.307 [SPEAKER_02]: credit the Jalen Brown trade, a leap that Tyrese Maxi takes to be even better than he already is. 53:41.887 --> 53:42.667 [SPEAKER_02]: Same with V.J. 53:42.727 --> 53:44.228 [SPEAKER_02]: Edgecom, if Joel and V.H. 53:44.248 --> 53:49.310 [SPEAKER_02]: healthy, or they trade him for someone else that helps win the title. 53:49.870 --> 53:53.372 [SPEAKER_02]: I think you can credit it to a lot of different moves. 53:54.492 --> 53:59.514 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I was thinking about this a bit as to what was the most shocking. 53:59.754 --> 54:03.036 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think LeBron to the Sixers might be one of them. 54:03.796 --> 54:06.377 [SPEAKER_02]: next to Katie in the Warriors, because I'm totally with you. 54:06.417 --> 54:22.902 [SPEAKER_02]: I think Bronson to the next is one of the best signings ever, but we all sort of knew things were going that way in a little tampering or not tampering, since then it's sort of led that 54:23.802 --> 54:29.803 [SPEAKER_02]: assumption to, it's just made it more clear as to what was going to happen there. 54:31.303 --> 54:43.045 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I mean, most surprising is a totally different conversation because you could go to Kevin Durant joining the nuts and teaming up with Kyrie Irving and James Hardin, which didn't work out well. 54:43.965 --> 54:47.386 [SPEAKER_02]: Shack to the Lakers obviously leads to the most titles. 54:47.546 --> 54:49.286 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that 54:52.947 --> 55:07.115 [SPEAKER_02]: Katie to the Warriors and Bronson are the right ones to think about, um, and I'm not sure if this Philly decision is going to lead to a title, but if it does, it should, it should be up there. 55:07.315 --> 55:19.102 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, maybe Bronson gets another with the next and we can bump him even higher up, but I'm still, I'm still a bit shocked that LeBron is going to be in a Philadelphia 76 years uniform next year. 55:22.714 --> 55:23.615 [SPEAKER_01]: the way to think about it. 55:23.715 --> 55:24.735 [SPEAKER_01]: And I totally agree. 55:24.915 --> 55:35.322 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, even, you know, it was way before the rumor mill was constantly churning out things once an hour for us to all think about, but like, check to the Lakers wasn't really a surprise per se. 55:35.382 --> 55:43.947 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was surprising in the sense that that was like the beginning, the very beginning of the era of big, like big names leaving the teams that drafted them. 55:44.368 --> 55:48.110 [SPEAKER_01]: But the fact that he went to the Lakers was not like a huge, huge shock. 55:50.017 --> 55:50.978 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm with you on the sixes. 55:51.078 --> 55:52.079 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm stunned. 55:52.119 --> 55:52.599 [SPEAKER_01]: He's there. 55:52.619 --> 55:58.503 [SPEAKER_01]: I think even everyone in Philadelphia is like still reeling about the fact I know my sixes friends certainly are. 55:59.017 --> 56:03.858 [SPEAKER_01]: where it's of all the teams in the universe, Philadelphia is just not the one that usually gets picked. 56:04.198 --> 56:08.399 [SPEAKER_01]: And which is funny to think about because it's not like there's some like miserable sports city, right? 56:08.419 --> 56:11.780 [SPEAKER_01]: They have some of the most passionate fans in the country. 56:12.280 --> 56:24.323 [SPEAKER_01]: They're as a hold, not the 76 or specifically, but as a whole, the city sports teams have experienced a lot of success in the last 10 years, a couple championships with the Eagles, and then just generally speaking, 56:25.280 --> 56:26.921 [SPEAKER_01]: their teams have been competitive. 56:26.961 --> 56:31.263 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not some, you know, sad city where they're like nothing good ever happens to us in sports. 56:32.584 --> 56:36.607 [SPEAKER_01]: But not a lot of guys like LeBron stature choose to join the Philadelphia 76. 56:37.427 --> 56:42.950 [SPEAKER_01]: They just don't and so that was shocking and then in context of the actual basketball aspect of it. 56:42.970 --> 56:44.091 [SPEAKER_01]: It was all very surprising. 56:44.552 --> 57:03.957 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that nothing else even comes close in terms of the on paper impact I totally agree with you that you know it's a TBD situation I think if he wins a title there's a chance that he ties for the top five with Bronson just because of how impressive that would be because I think there's going to be so much on him to make this work. 57:04.537 --> 57:18.943 [SPEAKER_01]: Because he's going to be the de facto point guard because if he doesn't sacrifice nobody else is going to sacrifice I think like the leadership of this team is really going to be on LeBron shoulders in a way that is not always the case from incoming free agents 57:20.221 --> 57:39.962 [SPEAKER_01]: And I almost think it's close in, in terms of recent history, it's closest to like, Andre Aguandala joining the warriors, where it's someone who's clearly very talented, goes to a team with championship hopes and expectations and have to go in there with the mindset of, I'm gonna do, 57:40.478 --> 57:46.765 [SPEAKER_01]: whatever we need to do to win as long as you guys do that with me, then I have no problem sacrificing this. 57:47.425 --> 57:53.131 [SPEAKER_01]: And so really what, you know, they're signing LeBron to be essentially a large point yard, who averaged 20 and 7 last year. 57:53.252 --> 57:56.415 [SPEAKER_01]: That's like high level starter, mid level all star stuff. 57:57.918 --> 58:13.533 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe not super crazy when you look at it through that, but in the context of, you know, the level of talent coming to town on that kind of like discounted deal with the sole purpose of bringing a title to that team. 58:14.465 --> 58:15.926 [SPEAKER_01]: And I totally believe that, too. 58:15.986 --> 58:23.192 [SPEAKER_01]: Like this is not LeBron going to LA, where it's, you know, championship for the priority, and also I'm going to create a giant Hollywood empire. 58:23.212 --> 58:25.354 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we all kind of knew what was going on there. 58:26.015 --> 58:29.157 [SPEAKER_01]: With this, it is just, you know, it's just about winning. 58:29.237 --> 58:39.686 [SPEAKER_01]: The guy wouldn't have left his home base in LA and his family to do anything other than sacrifice everything in pursuit of winning basketball games in a way that will enhance his legacy. 58:39.966 --> 58:40.407 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, 58:41.637 --> 58:43.038 [SPEAKER_01]: I just didn't think he was going to do that. 58:43.278 --> 58:47.501 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought as a 41 year old man, he was going to opt for a little bit more of a comfortable environment. 58:48.002 --> 58:50.944 [SPEAKER_01]: And all the more credit to him, he did not do that. 58:50.984 --> 58:55.307 [SPEAKER_01]: You cannot say he did not take the easy path as it were. 58:55.687 --> 59:02.592 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's going to be really fascinating to watch and they are going to be discussed at length on this year podcast going forward. 59:03.753 --> 59:05.153 [SPEAKER_02]: But for now, I think we'll call it. 59:05.234 --> 59:06.835 [SPEAKER_01]: So Blake, thanks so much for coming on with me. 59:06.855 --> 59:09.717 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're looking forward to doing it again as a man continues to. 59:10.639 --> 59:12.040 [SPEAKER_01]: prepare for the upcoming summer.