WEBVTT 00:00.451 --> 00:01.431 [SPEAKER_00]: There is a fine line. 00:01.691 --> 00:01.991 [SPEAKER_00]: Listen. 00:02.372 --> 00:03.452 [SPEAKER_03]: No, you listen. 00:04.052 --> 00:11.194 [SPEAKER_03]: Given the temperatures tied underwear is the first thing you can wear I know your balls are all getting sweaty and stuff. 00:11.594 --> 00:12.234 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you like that? 00:13.214 --> 00:14.435 [SPEAKER_01]: What did I just roll into? 00:14.455 --> 00:27.978 [SPEAKER_02]: This is this spank from common knives and you're listening listening to the high-carum podcasts. 00:35.754 --> 00:49.138 [SPEAKER_00]: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of High Car One podcast, the summer edition episodes where it is above 30 degrees outside in Celsius or close to 100 in Fahrenheit. 00:50.339 --> 00:53.840 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's so tiring and you can hear I'm so tired. 00:54.800 --> 00:56.861 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a very special guest today. 00:56.961 --> 01:04.563 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just me and Albert and of course we are rocking this podcast as we supposed to do without Keith. 01:05.383 --> 01:09.328 [SPEAKER_00]: and hitting new high numbers and the lighting interesting guests. 01:10.309 --> 01:21.123 [SPEAKER_00]: But because I'm so tired, I will just do the editor start because I don't have the guts to think about it during the podcast. 01:21.143 --> 01:21.623 [SPEAKER_00]: Here it goes. 01:22.544 --> 01:29.366 [SPEAKER_00]: Kilskilskilskils, this show is sponsored by miniL.eu, great Kils, made in Poland, high quality. 01:29.946 --> 01:32.006 [SPEAKER_00]: And not a very high price. 01:32.046 --> 01:34.067 [SPEAKER_00]: So how is that possible you would ask? 01:34.287 --> 01:36.887 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know myself, but the quality speaks for itself. 01:37.347 --> 01:42.529 [SPEAKER_00]: If you go to miniL.eu, you can find many different sizes of them, Kilsk. 01:43.009 --> 01:48.230 [SPEAKER_00]: Two different controllers and you can even choose the inside lining beads, soft brick or hard brick. 01:52.531 --> 02:01.077 [SPEAKER_00]: You can write them an email, shoot them an DM on Instagram, at mini-hell, underscore guilds, and ask for something custom about us are. 02:01.757 --> 02:05.579 [SPEAKER_00]: The owner is building all different shapes and sizes of them killed. 02:05.860 --> 02:13.544 [SPEAKER_00]: If you need something super huge for big parts or maybe something super small and efficient for very small, maybe ETC type of knives. 02:15.206 --> 02:16.947 [SPEAKER_00]: So you can ask him and he can build 02:22.530 --> 02:24.432 [SPEAKER_00]: and please do remember at checkout. 02:25.052 --> 02:26.353 [SPEAKER_00]: Use Carbone 5. 02:26.653 --> 02:28.474 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the word Carbone and the number 5. 02:28.695 --> 02:37.521 [SPEAKER_00]: It's to say 5% and then all the other nodes that you came from us, which is a great feedback and the cons are amazing so many all dot you. 02:38.061 --> 02:41.244 [SPEAKER_00]: And now the show just started and now back to the show. 02:41.504 --> 02:42.745 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, good. 02:42.885 --> 02:43.065 [SPEAKER_00]: Good. 02:43.125 --> 02:44.486 [SPEAKER_00]: I treat excellent. 02:44.646 --> 02:45.026 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 02:45.967 --> 02:48.109 [SPEAKER_00]: And today my dear friends. 02:48.729 --> 02:58.171 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a guess that I wanted for many long months to give to my team, but he, but I don't know what he did, I don't know, he did nothing. 02:58.771 --> 03:02.532 [SPEAKER_00]: So I had to invite him myself, and this is Wokanaf. 03:03.292 --> 03:04.492 [SPEAKER_00]: Wokanaf's company. 03:04.572 --> 03:04.812 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 03:05.533 --> 03:06.193 [SPEAKER_01]: That's correct. 03:06.233 --> 03:07.173 [SPEAKER_01]: What's going on, dudes? 03:07.953 --> 03:08.633 [SPEAKER_00]: What's up, man? 03:09.553 --> 03:10.634 [SPEAKER_01]: Excited to be here. 03:11.474 --> 03:15.315 [SPEAKER_01]: Ryan spent your whole last episode talking about me, so I figured I might as well get on and 03:19.364 --> 03:23.087 [SPEAKER_00]: 100% I mean, I hope he didn't get anything incorrect. 03:23.367 --> 03:24.067 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no. 03:24.087 --> 03:24.508 [SPEAKER_00]: He did everything. 03:24.628 --> 03:26.229 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just messing with everything right. 03:27.890 --> 03:28.170 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 03:28.510 --> 03:32.213 [SPEAKER_00]: So SV, me and Albert, we talked before the show. 03:32.233 --> 03:33.234 [SPEAKER_00]: We did nothing this week. 03:33.414 --> 03:35.435 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you want to share how was your week? 03:36.776 --> 03:37.797 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my weeks may go. 03:37.837 --> 03:42.060 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been a lot of catch ups and getting back from the road trip out to Wisconsin that Ryan joined me on. 03:43.268 --> 03:44.749 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, kind of just getting things ready. 03:44.769 --> 03:46.929 [SPEAKER_01]: We're doing another show next weekend. 03:46.989 --> 03:49.190 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the same show just the northeast version of it. 03:50.290 --> 03:52.871 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so just make sure I've got inventory and everything I need to go to the access. 03:52.891 --> 03:56.793 [SPEAKER_01]: I sold out a few things when we're in Wisconsin and uh, yeah, a lot of catch up. 03:58.013 --> 03:59.974 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of catching up on rest to the road trip. 03:59.994 --> 04:00.174 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks. 04:00.194 --> 04:00.454 [SPEAKER_01]: Really. 04:00.494 --> 04:00.794 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah. 04:02.095 --> 04:08.442 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, he mentioned that the last part of the drive was like what 18, 19 hours of driving. 04:08.823 --> 04:17.112 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we did, we did 19 hours straight the second day, which got us back into Southern Maine at like three, 15 in the morning. 04:17.941 --> 04:19.722 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was a, it was a push. 04:20.203 --> 04:25.306 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, you know, we have a lot of European listeners. 04:25.626 --> 04:28.088 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe they do not know about walking lives. 04:28.368 --> 04:33.031 [SPEAKER_00]: And why, you know, I follow you, you follow me, what we do differently, but we do. 04:33.051 --> 04:35.293 [SPEAKER_00]: So similarly, maybe you can do 04:36.333 --> 04:37.894 [SPEAKER_00]: a bitch of Walker knives. 04:38.054 --> 04:42.957 [SPEAKER_00]: What did this all about with to do us a knife maker and just tell us a bit of that story, you know? 04:43.437 --> 04:43.717 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. 04:43.837 --> 04:47.299 [SPEAKER_01]: So it all kind of started really like a decade ago. 04:47.339 --> 04:50.061 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I've only been making knives seriously for about three years. 04:50.481 --> 04:52.742 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm kind of dabbling for five or so. 04:53.943 --> 04:57.265 [SPEAKER_01]: But I guess even longer than a decade now, it's probably been about 15 years. 04:57.325 --> 05:01.807 [SPEAKER_01]: I worked as a whitewater rough guide in Maine for ten years and 05:06.192 --> 05:27.812 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a lot of fun and as a whitewater guide and I was mostly actually a video kayaker, so I would shoot Videos of the rafterips coming through the rapids every day from a kayaks, so I got to kayak every day, which was awesome And as a whitewater kayaker and a whitewater ref guide, you always carry a knife on your PFD And for a long time all the knives that we carried were Pretty much just trash. 05:27.832 --> 05:31.015 [SPEAKER_01]: They still the mass produced you know options are on the market are still trash 05:31.964 --> 05:40.909 [SPEAKER_01]: And when I got into playing around with knife-making, the first knife I decided to make, it's like a real product other than the stuff I was doing just abling, was like, well, I should make a river knife. 05:40.929 --> 05:44.451 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like I can, I hate all these knives that've been using on the river for years. 05:44.571 --> 05:46.892 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of what really got me into it. 05:46.993 --> 05:53.636 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's sort of the product that established Walker and I've company as a business and kind of really, you know, put some fuel on the fire for me. 05:53.696 --> 05:54.717 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's where it all started. 05:55.998 --> 05:56.458 [SPEAKER_01]: And it really, 05:57.300 --> 06:10.230 [SPEAKER_01]: that that product is what has led to all of my designs since as well as really, you know, because I had to develop something that was super low profile because it sits on your PFD externally, you can't interfere with paddling, you can't interfere with climbing back into a raft or anything like that. 06:10.991 --> 06:24.901 [SPEAKER_01]: It had to be lightweight obviously and most importantly, it had to have a sheet system that had incredibly high retention because that was the biggest issue, still is the biggest issue with the other options on the market is that they inevitably fall out of the sheet and they end up in the 06:26.593 --> 06:37.880 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of like a running joke when you see an interest pilot she thought someone's BFD, it never has a knife in it, you know, so I wanted to make a knife that could actually hold up to you, you know, what guys are doing on the river and. 06:38.712 --> 06:43.657 [SPEAKER_01]: Raf guys are, you know, generally not the type of people that really take care of their gear either. 06:43.817 --> 06:51.545 [SPEAKER_01]: So I had to build a knife that was tough and it was, you know, if I can if I can survive a full time Raf guys BFD, it can survive just about anything. 06:51.605 --> 06:56.550 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's where it all started and then that design philosophy has applied into all the other knives I've built. 06:57.325 --> 07:04.051 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's really how you and I connected Pauli was that we were both sort of working in a similar capacity or our sheath designs and CNC. 07:04.772 --> 07:08.635 [SPEAKER_01]: And we kind of shared a lot of ideas back and forth and that's sort of what build our relationships. 07:08.655 --> 07:10.077 [SPEAKER_01]: So here we are today. 07:11.245 --> 07:12.405 [SPEAKER_00]: professional sheath makers. 07:13.085 --> 07:14.186 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 07:14.206 --> 07:15.506 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it feels like it. 07:16.206 --> 07:16.506 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 07:16.726 --> 07:16.986 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 07:17.026 --> 07:17.447 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes. 07:17.467 --> 07:17.667 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 07:18.347 --> 07:33.550 [SPEAKER_00]: I would definitely advise our listeners to go to walker knives on Instagram and just look up your knives and see the sheath design that you developed and I really, really enjoy the what you did with the very front of the sheath and the like the opening for the knife. 07:33.630 --> 07:39.712 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I've never seen it anywhere but to be honest, I was never into rafting because we don't have any 07:43.133 --> 08:04.658 [SPEAKER_01]: The sheath that I'm building is that I mean, there's I don't think there's anyone really using context for a sheath material most of what's out there is like injection molded plastic and a lot of them have these weird little you know clips and springs and all this stuff that always inevitably fails or falls out or comes loose and I just wanted something that would work, you know, you just easy to snap in and the way that opening developed to was. 08:05.098 --> 08:12.860 [SPEAKER_01]: When you're on the water and you want to be able to put that thing back in real quick, it's it's easy to find the opening to the sheath, it kind of guides your knife in no matter where you, you know, where you hit it. 08:12.920 --> 08:26.284 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of how that came about, but I mean, the biggest thing was just that retention and a lot of that is, you know, working on the shape of the handle on how the handle interacts with the sheath and all that stuff, but my river knife sheets are probably 10 times more return of them. 08:26.304 --> 08:27.784 [SPEAKER_01]: My hunting knives are too just because. 08:28.741 --> 08:33.985 [SPEAKER_01]: I want you to have to really, you know, want to pull that knife out so that it's not falling out when it shouldn't be. 08:34.526 --> 08:37.809 [SPEAKER_00]: It just makes sense because you want your knife. 08:38.589 --> 08:44.274 [SPEAKER_00]: You want it to pull it out out of the sheet if you really, really want it. 08:44.434 --> 08:50.419 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you don't want it to happen by accident or I hope my finger hung up on it or 08:50.999 --> 09:17.146 [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever and also with the design I think what which is really genius is because you have those that that opening it kind of doubles as a Thumbrest yeah, that was like a happy accident figure in that out because I kind of designed the opening first And then as I was playing with it, you know, and I was making them incredibly, you know super-retent of It's like oh wow, it actually like even with this lower retention the way that opening works when you press against it It sort of displays the sheet open so it works really good 09:17.766 --> 09:19.929 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that is great. 09:19.989 --> 09:36.509 [SPEAKER_00]: That is really, you know, these happy accidents they happen with the product development and like your product development started actually from trying to solve a an actual real world problem, you know, and I wonder do you think that that 09:37.370 --> 10:05.814 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it like greatly contributing to the marketing and sales because it is actually solving a problem and it kind of you know all that after sound like this shit is amazing and you know yeah yeah no question I mean when I like I was saying that the river knife is really what sort of like established this whole thing as a business for me and it was the product that I was like wow this could be something and the reason for that was when I started making them even my early iterations when I was still phone pressing the sheets and everything and they were garbage compared to what they are now. 10:06.427 --> 10:10.150 [SPEAKER_01]: When I was on the river with those or in my local paddling community, people wanted them. 10:10.190 --> 10:11.311 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, really wanted them. 10:11.371 --> 10:15.075 [SPEAKER_01]: I would saw them immediately every time I had a drop available. 10:15.115 --> 10:15.255 [SPEAKER_01]: So. 10:15.921 --> 10:19.943 [SPEAKER_01]: That was kind of like that light bulb when I'm like, you know, I'm not the only one that's been frustrated with that, what's out there. 10:20.483 --> 10:29.546 [SPEAKER_01]: And on top of that, you know, most of the mass market stuff is like, you can get a knife for $35, $40, $60, maybe $100 if you got a nice one. 10:30.326 --> 10:34.368 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was charging, you know, more than double that out the game and people were willing to pay that to you. 10:34.408 --> 10:37.769 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was like, okay, people will pay for something that they know is quality. 10:38.109 --> 10:41.691 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's, you know, like you said, solves the problem that we've all been having. 10:42.391 --> 10:43.952 [SPEAKER_01]: And a day, it definitely helped you that I was, 10:45.607 --> 10:52.173 [SPEAKER_01]: And I know that's made a river knife, you know, at that caliber other than these guys that are mass market, you know, producing shit in China. 10:52.193 --> 11:03.242 [SPEAKER_00]: So, so people without a sleeping actual nightmare because we're sleeping on this kind of market segment and you know, I think too like it's it's such a niche thing right that like. 11:04.062 --> 11:08.383 [SPEAKER_01]: But for me, it also worked well because it's not just something I decided like, hey, that's a product I can make. 11:09.023 --> 11:13.384 [SPEAKER_01]: That, that, well, and still very much is a huge part of my life, you know, I paddle all the time. 11:13.904 --> 11:18.385 [SPEAKER_01]: I found it a white water kayak race series in the state of Maine that's going on like it's 14th year now. 11:19.186 --> 11:24.227 [SPEAKER_01]: I used to host a big event called Huckfast where guys would show up at this big waterfall and we'd all paddle off this waterfall. 11:24.767 --> 11:26.508 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was a registered guide for 10 years. 11:26.568 --> 11:28.289 [SPEAKER_01]: I've done a lot of swift water rescue training. 11:28.809 --> 11:31.710 [SPEAKER_01]: I work with a lot of guys that are professionals in that industry and I still do work. 11:32.311 --> 11:34.532 [SPEAKER_01]: And my other job with a lot of outfitters and stuff. 11:34.552 --> 11:38.074 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's really, it's a community that I've been a part of for a long time. 11:38.174 --> 11:40.595 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I didn't just show up as like someone with this product. 11:41.115 --> 11:46.798 [SPEAKER_01]: It was, you know, I had a little bit of, you know, authenticity and credibility behind what I was building, which I think helped a ton. 11:47.235 --> 11:50.578 [SPEAKER_03]: But maybe you want to tell our listeners what a river knife is used for. 11:50.758 --> 11:51.199 [SPEAKER_01]: Totally. 11:51.259 --> 11:57.444 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so to be honest with you, the thing it's used for, the most, is like cutting tomatoes and making your PB and J. 11:58.986 --> 12:00.167 [SPEAKER_03]: The diff there's an accident. 12:00.207 --> 12:01.168 [SPEAKER_03]: What are you using for? 12:01.228 --> 12:12.298 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so the the O shit moment that we build them for essentially is most of the time, it's some kind of a rope entrapment and sort of a rule of thumb is that any time you're in current and there's rope involved, you should have a knife with you. 12:13.045 --> 12:33.421 [SPEAKER_01]: And in rafting, there's a lot of rope involved because you've got a throw bag, you can throw out to rescue someone who's swimming away from a boat, and white water kayaking, if there's a pin scenario or something going on, and you've got rope to all over the place you're setting up a z-drag to unpin a kayak that's stuck or something, you know, whenever there's rope and current, there's a situation where you could end up in some kind of entrapment, and that has happened. 12:33.441 --> 12:40.687 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so essentially the knife is designed to be rapidly deployed, easily accessible, and immediately cut yourself out of some kind of entrapment situation. 12:42.574 --> 13:06.453 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, puncturing a thwart or a tube on a raft that's that's pinned the leg against a rock or something like any there's just a variety of different scenarios where you might need when on the river that said they're very uncommon but it is something that can happen and you should be prepared for when you're you know paddling at a high level so that's what it's built for and I do two different variations of my river and I do I've got one with a blunt tip and one with the drop point. 13:07.067 --> 13:26.579 [SPEAKER_01]: And the idea behind the blunt tip is that a lot of people and it's always kind of been this sort of misconception in the whitewater world is that people think the blunt tip is so you don't pop your raft or something the real reason behind the blunt tip and you know and sheep's footway works well for this too is that if you need to cut a rope that's wrapped around somebody's leg or someone's arm. 13:27.084 --> 13:30.106 [SPEAKER_01]: you can get under that rope real quick without puncturing skin. 13:30.466 --> 13:32.668 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but it's all fixed plates, right? 13:32.908 --> 13:34.269 [SPEAKER_03]: From what I've saw in your website. 13:34.289 --> 13:36.390 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there are some rescue folders out there. 13:36.871 --> 13:40.033 [SPEAKER_01]: And some guys will carry a knife zipped inside their PFT pocket. 13:40.773 --> 13:48.719 [SPEAKER_01]: I've always been a big advocate for an externally mounted knife because seconds count when you're in a life or death situation and you can't breathe. 13:50.039 --> 13:53.482 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you, and you know, I paddle in Maine, I'm in the northeast. 13:54.259 --> 13:54.679 [SPEAKER_01]: It's cold. 13:54.699 --> 13:58.883 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of days where we've got icicles on our helmets when we're kayaking and the spring stuff. 13:59.363 --> 14:02.766 [SPEAKER_01]: And your finger dexterity goes down enormously in those situations. 14:02.826 --> 14:12.033 [SPEAKER_01]: So the idea of unzipping a pocket getting a folding knife out, opening a folding knife to me is just too many additional steps in a situation where they don't need to exist. 14:12.073 --> 14:18.017 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to advocate for a fixed blade externally mounted that you can rapidly deploy at a moment's notice when you need it. 14:19.541 --> 14:24.946 [SPEAKER_00]: And you said that, you know, you kind of said it dismissively that it's a very niche thing. 14:25.166 --> 14:34.814 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, kind of, my god tells that if some people are focusing with their products on a super broad spectrum of people, it is actually the wrong thing to do. 14:35.195 --> 14:38.537 [SPEAKER_00]: You actually want to focus on a really, really niche thing. 14:39.158 --> 14:40.359 [SPEAKER_00]: And to, you know, 14:41.640 --> 14:48.882 [SPEAKER_00]: answer the requirements to those niche people and they become your kind of superfans because you are actually solving some sort of a problem, right? 14:49.502 --> 14:51.203 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is kind of perpetuating. 14:51.603 --> 14:57.905 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think if you look at all, you know, successful small businesses, they really start with a core audience and a niche group. 14:58.508 --> 15:05.395 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, a big part of that is that you build, you know, a level of expertise in something specific and you become known for that thing. 15:06.497 --> 15:15.006 [SPEAKER_01]: And like I said with my hunting knives, like a lot of what I'm doing in the hunting knife is carry over design philosophy from what I learned building all those river knives, especially in the sheet system. 15:15.606 --> 15:21.052 [SPEAKER_01]: And so when I, you know, when I'm selling my hunting knives, I talk about a lot of that and how we got to where we're at and what developed. 15:21.493 --> 15:23.554 [SPEAKER_01]: the sheet system we're using for those nice now too. 15:23.594 --> 15:27.696 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's just creates a good story and it's a really cool way to sell a product. 15:27.756 --> 15:40.541 [SPEAKER_01]: And like you said, I mean, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today if I hadn't had that core audience initially because they bought a ton and eyes for me and, you know, allowed me to buy equipment and grow to a point where I can start branching out into other things. 15:41.662 --> 15:41.882 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm. 15:42.162 --> 15:44.123 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, do you want to talk about those other things? 15:45.023 --> 15:48.484 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, primarily just reference to getting into the honey market because that was 15:50.440 --> 15:52.161 [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of got into hunting later in life, too. 15:52.201 --> 15:57.763 [SPEAKER_01]: So as I started doing more hunting for myself, I was like, well, I guess this, you know, we gotta make myself a hunting knife. 15:57.803 --> 16:11.949 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of what spawn that whole evolution of the business, but it's been really cool, too, because in getting into building those knives, I've sense a ton of awesome people and become part of another whole community in this part of the state where I live. 16:12.710 --> 16:18.292 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, meeting some of these sort of local legends that have been hunters in the Northeast for 30, 40 years 16:20.860 --> 16:31.836 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, impressive stats that I will never achieve in the rest of my life time, but you know, getting knives in those guys hands and meeting those guys and working with them on some podcasts and stuff that they're doing and it's sort of branch me out into a whole 16:36.843 --> 16:42.527 [SPEAKER_00]: And as you hunter yourself, maybe you can give me an answer to a question, because I'm no hunter, I never hunted. 16:43.367 --> 16:50.452 [SPEAKER_00]: But I've seen some companies that are making small knives that don't have any handle skills, but they are a paracord wrapped. 16:51.113 --> 16:54.015 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this a good solution for a hunting knife? 16:54.055 --> 16:56.176 [SPEAKER_00]: Because in my mind, it kind of seems gutty. 16:56.517 --> 16:59.779 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you are in the guts, it will be covered in shit. 17:00.782 --> 17:02.943 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's funny to say that because I was that. 17:03.003 --> 17:06.564 [SPEAKER_01]: So Ryan and I went to this little event called The Buckbash. 17:06.624 --> 17:07.624 [SPEAKER_01]: Was that last weekend? 17:07.804 --> 17:14.547 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was basically a private party at a local hunter's house that happened for a bunch of years that he made public this year. 17:14.587 --> 17:17.068 [SPEAKER_01]: And I brought my knife-sharpening system. 17:17.128 --> 17:18.888 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was offering free sharpening to people. 17:18.908 --> 17:21.089 [SPEAKER_01]: This is something fun to do as a small show. 17:21.935 --> 17:30.705 [SPEAKER_01]: and I had one of those come by the table and that paracord was like you couldn't even tell what color it was originally. 17:30.745 --> 17:36.112 [SPEAKER_01]: It was full of animal fat, talo, gunk, grease, grime. 17:36.872 --> 17:38.114 [SPEAKER_01]: It was gross. 17:39.355 --> 17:41.237 [SPEAKER_01]: So no, I would say it's absolutely not. 17:41.538 --> 17:42.279 [SPEAKER_01]: Good solution. 17:44.219 --> 17:47.402 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe if you re-rap it, every skinned animal. 17:48.162 --> 17:48.623 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe. 17:48.743 --> 17:49.764 [SPEAKER_03]: Fuck it, who does that? 17:49.824 --> 17:50.444 [SPEAKER_03]: Who does that? 17:50.645 --> 17:52.586 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I don't know. 17:52.947 --> 17:58.231 [SPEAKER_00]: People who are so cheap they want to save on handleskills and they say, yeah, I'll just buy some paracord, it won't be fine. 17:58.271 --> 17:59.312 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's fine. 17:59.592 --> 18:00.013 [SPEAKER_00]: I got this. 18:01.434 --> 18:03.275 [SPEAKER_00]: But today, virtually a little bit. 18:03.416 --> 18:05.457 [SPEAKER_00]: You are one of the makers who are admire. 18:07.324 --> 18:09.586 [SPEAKER_00]: who makes really, really good pictures. 18:10.046 --> 18:11.688 [SPEAKER_00]: Makes great marketing material. 18:12.348 --> 18:17.393 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe do you have some tips or tricks for our listeners? 18:17.773 --> 18:23.879 [SPEAKER_00]: How they can dial in their social media game with good pictures on maybe their website pictures? 18:24.079 --> 18:29.784 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I mean, I'll tell you photos for a website are like the absolute most important thing. 18:29.824 --> 18:30.425 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can 18:31.118 --> 18:33.160 [SPEAKER_01]: You can put all the copy up and whatever you want. 18:33.180 --> 18:36.842 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you don't have good clean images, your website's not going to feel professional, no matter what you do. 18:37.683 --> 18:42.627 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm lucky in that my real job, quote unquote, is working in the film and photo world. 18:42.687 --> 18:51.693 [SPEAKER_01]: So I have an extensive background in that, which has saved me a lot of time and money in building this business because I haven't had to hire people to do that work. 18:51.873 --> 18:54.575 [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, essentially, you don't need a really expensive camera. 18:54.595 --> 18:56.857 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't even your iPhone sometimes can work well. 18:56.917 --> 18:57.978 [SPEAKER_01]: It's more importantly, 18:58.398 --> 19:01.479 [SPEAKER_01]: that you light things properly, you know, you clean up the space. 19:01.499 --> 19:03.699 [SPEAKER_01]: You take the time to think about how an image is going to look. 19:04.219 --> 19:08.981 [SPEAKER_01]: But for website photos, I would absolutely suggest paying someone to take some photos. 19:09.061 --> 19:12.041 [SPEAKER_01]: If you don't have the ability to do it yourself because it makes such a big difference. 19:12.621 --> 19:14.382 [SPEAKER_01]: Social media is a little bit different story. 19:14.922 --> 19:16.342 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm no social media pro. 19:16.402 --> 19:18.983 [SPEAKER_01]: I hate, like I work in film for, that's my job. 19:19.887 --> 19:32.892 [SPEAKER_01]: To get the camera out and like shoot stuff in the shop feels like I'm working at the other place I work and it's just I don't know I I shouldn't I do I don't do it nearly as not as enough as much as I should but even just getting your phone out and making a little real it's great. 19:34.252 --> 19:47.757 [SPEAKER_01]: You know and and keeping up at just posting stuff is good to and I've actually the more relationships I built in the hunt world the more kind of cross promo stuff I'm doing with guys to which is also great because then they post something tag you you can share it's another way to build content without having to do yourself. 19:48.317 --> 19:50.898 [SPEAKER_01]: But for your website, absolutely photos are the most important. 19:51.078 --> 19:53.219 [SPEAKER_01]: And like I said, you don't need a good camera. 19:53.299 --> 19:59.342 [SPEAKER_01]: It's almost more important to learn how to use some editing software at least at like an elementary level. 19:59.402 --> 20:09.327 [SPEAKER_01]: Because no matter what camera you have, even when I shoot with my nice cameras, the image straight out of the camera is never going to look like that polished, professional images that you want on your website. 20:09.807 --> 20:15.890 [SPEAKER_01]: You really have to take the time to figure out how to do some proper color calibration. 20:16.960 --> 20:19.421 [SPEAKER_01]: you know balancing shadows and brightness and all that kind of stuff. 20:19.441 --> 20:24.702 [SPEAKER_01]: And once you kind of get those just those basic little things down proper white balance like it makes a huge difference. 20:47.328 --> 21:02.185 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so powerful that and it's intuitive and really if you just figure out how to play with the slider, you know, the basic sliders for shadows, whites, blacks, white balance, like that's enough to get you started and really elevate the photos that you're taking. 21:03.146 --> 21:24.962 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I like for some tips, maybe on editing, because I've seen, you know, and I did, of course, I did some pictures, you know, just up the contrast, up the saturation, oil looks great, but actually does not look so great, you know, it doesn't look professional, so one of the things that I would say, you know, first and foremost is that a little bit goes a long ways, right? 21:25.742 --> 21:31.946 [SPEAKER_01]: You'll see, I couldn't tell you how many photos you see of like a sunset, someone puts on Instagram or something and they crank that saturation slider all the way up. 21:31.966 --> 21:33.066 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, wow, there's sunset. 21:33.086 --> 21:34.707 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, that actually looks kind of dumb. 21:35.548 --> 21:37.569 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, a little bit goes a long ways. 21:37.709 --> 21:41.151 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, get the proper white balance, pull the shadows up a little bit. 21:41.691 --> 21:44.593 [SPEAKER_01]: Make sure that your whites and blacks aren't clipping and really that's all you need to do. 21:44.673 --> 21:45.393 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you do that. 21:45.433 --> 21:48.715 [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to already be leagues ahead of someone who's just snapping photos and posting them. 21:49.655 --> 21:54.258 [SPEAKER_00]: And by clipping your mean, they do not make the details disappear, right? 21:54.637 --> 22:04.386 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so if you're in light room up on the top right corner, there's a little histogram and you'll notice if you just grab like the white slider and slide it all the way back and forth, you'll see how the histogram moves. 22:04.967 --> 22:08.510 [SPEAKER_01]: You basically don't want either of the corners of the histogram to be off the screen. 22:08.530 --> 22:10.752 [SPEAKER_01]: So you push the whites all the way up the blacks all the way down. 22:11.193 --> 22:15.897 [SPEAKER_01]: But once they go beyond that, then you're clipping so your blacks are crushed your whites are completely blown out. 22:16.618 --> 22:18.800 [SPEAKER_01]: So you basically want to get it, make sure everything's not clipping. 22:19.352 --> 22:33.248 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, pull your highlights down a little bit, bring those shadows up to kind of balance the image if it's too contrasty at a little contrast back in for for some 3D dimension and but again lighting things when you shoot the first time is the most important step. 22:34.135 --> 22:37.076 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, oh, and then about lighting, lighting. 22:37.616 --> 22:40.517 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I hate taking pictures. 22:40.758 --> 22:42.318 [SPEAKER_00]: This is being of my existence. 22:42.878 --> 22:46.020 [SPEAKER_00]: This one time my friend asked, what do you hate the most in this job? 22:46.580 --> 22:50.441 [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought I love everything, then I remember that they need to take some pictures and they fucking hate it. 22:50.841 --> 22:52.962 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, I have two auxiliary lights. 22:53.162 --> 23:00.085 [SPEAKER_00]: They are, I don't remember the brand, but whatever, they are extremely cheap, like 40 euros, like 50 euros, I don't know each. 23:00.885 --> 23:15.070 [SPEAKER_00]: I have paper towel to soften the light, you know, no harsh shadows, but actually placing them, you know, and playing with the cameras ISO, shutter speed, you want to have the nice white balance blah blah blah. 23:15.610 --> 23:20.952 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any set rules about, like, if you have two lights, how you should place them, and, you know. 23:21.880 --> 23:40.957 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's no rules, but, um, you know, what I tell people to that aren't super experience of lighting is difficult is 99% of the time you're better off to just go outside on a cloudy day or go outside in the, you know, early morning or evening when the lights soft and don't use any lights and just shoot that way. 23:41.097 --> 23:42.659 [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to get way better results that way. 23:43.159 --> 23:46.442 [SPEAKER_01]: When you start playing with lighting, you throw in a whole lot of different variables and 23:47.082 --> 24:09.817 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, power lights like that can be really harsh, it all depends on what your environment is a lot of times if I'm in the shop I'll even just like if you know if I'm trying to shoot something on a bench or if I'm shooting myself at a grinder or whatever I'll take one of my lights and I'll just bounce it off the ceiling you know or I'll bounce it off a wall behind me that's going to create a much wider diffusion it's going to make it things look a lot nicer anytime you're throwing direct light onto something you're going to start to get. 24:10.221 --> 24:12.963 [SPEAKER_01]: harsh shadows and angles, even when you're diffusing it. 24:13.023 --> 24:16.986 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're diffusing it, pull those lights further away, then you think you need to. 24:18.287 --> 24:19.968 [SPEAKER_01]: But try to bounce it more often than not. 24:20.449 --> 24:21.950 [SPEAKER_01]: And really without like a proper. 24:23.294 --> 24:25.596 [SPEAKER_01]: Like light box, you know, softbox set up. 24:25.656 --> 24:27.938 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really difficult to shoot studio photos. 24:28.739 --> 24:36.926 [SPEAKER_01]: When we do commercial stuff, we shoot in a giant, you know, square room with a curved wall in the background and it's all white and it gets really elaborate. 24:37.146 --> 24:37.887 [SPEAKER_01]: It's difficult. 24:37.947 --> 24:39.789 [SPEAKER_01]: Studio photos are really hard to do. 24:40.309 --> 24:48.957 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you look at my Instagram, 99.9% of every photo on that page, I've walked outside and I took a photo with no lights at all. 24:50.791 --> 24:52.919 [SPEAKER_01]: Every photo on my website is no lights at all. 24:53.703 --> 24:54.165 [SPEAKER_00]: Sounds great. 24:54.566 --> 24:55.852 [SPEAKER_03]: Natural light that is right. 24:56.407 --> 25:23.267 [SPEAKER_01]: Even so like the top down photos of my knives I when I moved into my house the shop that I'm working out of it's an old garage and in the back corner I just found this big like 24 by 36 piece of some kind of steel it's all rusted and you know it's just it makes a cool texture and I started using that initially and I've just kept that as the background for all my product photos because I just kind of has a cool vibe and it was this thing I found and and so when I set that up I literally I'll put my camera on the tripod pointing straight down on it. 25:23.967 --> 25:49.410 [SPEAKER_01]: I have a giant like four foot by four foot white like two third stop diffuser maybe and I'll kind of angle that if you know whatever direction I put the sun behind that even so I'm still I'm doing this when the sun's low you know late afternoon early evening but I'll put the sun behind the diffuser and that's it I will use just the natural light on the ground shooting straight down on top of those knives with one diffuser in front of the sun. 25:50.543 --> 25:59.653 [SPEAKER_01]: And just doing that you got a nice soft image natural light is just it's always so much softer and prettier and it's a lot more diffused and it just looks so much better makes perfect sense. 25:59.984 --> 26:08.849 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I've been, because I've been lighting only with those two lights, I'm always dealing with some harcer shadows at the bottom of the knife under the surface. 26:09.410 --> 26:16.234 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, if you try to lift it, then you have like you reduce your angles on which you can take the picture because you don't want to see what's underneath the knife. 26:16.414 --> 26:22.858 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you have a, if, if it has like a shiny bevel, you know, a certain finish, then you have another variable. 26:22.938 --> 26:25.119 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's just pain in the ass. 26:25.539 --> 26:30.500 [SPEAKER_00]: And we are so lucky, we are so lucky here in Los Angeles because it's 99% of the time it's the grace guy. 26:30.880 --> 26:31.300 [SPEAKER_01]: Perfect. 26:31.680 --> 26:32.420 [SPEAKER_01]: You're starting. 26:32.860 --> 26:41.182 [SPEAKER_01]: I will literally like when I have a batch of new like because you know, my my knives don't change much, but if I change a handle or something, you know, a year over year, I'll have to redo the photos. 26:41.822 --> 26:43.882 [SPEAKER_01]: And so when I do that, I literally will watch the weather. 26:43.922 --> 26:46.043 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, Tuesday is going to be overcast all day. 26:46.403 --> 26:47.503 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm shooting photos that day. 26:48.103 --> 26:51.383 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll go outside and I'll do all the photos and it just works out so much better that way. 26:51.944 --> 26:52.784 [SPEAKER_01]: It's less of a headache. 26:52.804 --> 26:54.284 [SPEAKER_01]: It's easier to do and they always look better. 26:56.597 --> 27:08.788 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I, yeah, I will have to keep that in mind because shooting outside sounds way more easy, but I guess then you have to play more with the white balance actually because it depends on the, you know, you do. 27:08.828 --> 27:14.654 [SPEAKER_01]: But so, you know, when I set up for this product photos, the cameras on tripod, once I, once I have my settings right, they're not changing. 27:15.234 --> 27:22.081 [SPEAKER_01]: So at the end of the shoot, I can pull all those photos into Lightroom and I can edit one of them and batch process that across all of them and boom, they're good to go. 27:23.235 --> 27:33.764 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so mean, the settings are set and then you can just copy and paste the same presets and they work fine style and this just makes sense. 27:33.864 --> 27:47.675 [SPEAKER_00]: No, because I am used to I'm used to take take one day one picture on the another picture maybe one outside and I'm like now I have to edit those all separately because those the same settings do not apply because the lighting is a little bit different. 27:48.275 --> 27:52.837 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the, maybe you got the, some reflection of something and blah, blah, blah, blah. 27:52.857 --> 27:55.058 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you have to edit every and each one of those. 27:55.459 --> 27:58.500 [SPEAKER_01]: A little approach for your certain bevels and stuff to you. 27:58.520 --> 28:08.845 [SPEAKER_01]: If you ever, like I noticed when I was doing some photos of my last patch, it was difficult to get my logo to pop and I'm doing a much lighter touch on the laser for the logos now because I was having some corrosion issues on the river nice. 28:09.856 --> 28:24.896 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm trying to combat that with some new laser settings, but it also makes it so that that logo it just doesn't show up as well in photos, but I had just a like I'm probably 18 by 24 piece of black like construction cardboard and if you just hold that over. 28:25.600 --> 28:48.158 [SPEAKER_01]: the knife when you're shooting you get it changes the entire reflection of that level without affecting the light at all because you know as long as you don't create shadows based on where you hold it and you can completely it's like a black heart when we're doing photo where it completely changes how that image looks with the logo on the blade oh my god this is such a big brain I think I think this is one of the best tips that we got on our summer episodes 28:52.781 --> 28:53.681 [SPEAKER_00]: I never thought about it. 28:54.021 --> 28:57.943 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's like literally just the thing is just don't overcomplicate it. 28:58.023 --> 29:08.886 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, once you start adding lights in and you know, you start finding shadows, like you've experienced and you're doing, doing things indoor is really difficult without the right setup to get things to look good. 29:08.906 --> 29:10.387 [SPEAKER_01]: Just go outside, make it easy. 29:10.407 --> 29:13.408 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you changed all of my like workflow. 29:14.108 --> 29:16.309 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I will start loving doing pictures. 29:16.589 --> 29:16.909 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe. 29:17.149 --> 29:17.349 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe. 29:17.769 --> 29:20.230 [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess we need to shoot everything in the rock. 29:21.135 --> 29:22.357 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, I always shoot raw. 29:22.377 --> 29:23.799 [SPEAKER_01]: If your camera shoots raw, absolutely. 29:23.819 --> 29:27.465 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's, there's no reason not to get so much more data to work with him post. 29:27.485 --> 29:32.052 [SPEAKER_01]: So, and that, you know, I really plays into when you're trying to pull those shadows up or bring some highlights down. 29:32.413 --> 29:33.955 [SPEAKER_00]: Vulcan knives and just a raw dog. 29:33.975 --> 29:34.256 [SPEAKER_00]: It's been. 29:34.638 --> 29:35.139 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. 29:38.843 --> 29:46.712 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, going back a little bit from pictures mode, going back to your actual business, you know, how you're doing things. 29:47.213 --> 29:52.860 [SPEAKER_00]: As far as I remember, you are the one who is walking, walking to a lot of shows, right? 29:52.920 --> 29:54.582 [SPEAKER_00]: You're doing a lot of shows, right? 29:55.122 --> 30:06.371 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, so I just started doing shows last year and really it started with this hunt stock event that we go to you and they just they just brought a new hunt stock to Wisconsin, which is why we went out and travel to that one 30:07.257 --> 30:09.058 [SPEAKER_01]: And the buck bash was a new event this year. 30:09.098 --> 30:11.660 [SPEAKER_01]: So really all the shows that I've done have been in the hunt world. 30:11.860 --> 30:15.902 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's not, there's shows in the whitewater world, but they're kind of a different format and vibe. 30:17.563 --> 30:20.785 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, it's the shows that I'm doing aren't knife shows. 30:21.026 --> 30:25.048 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's the biggest difference between, I think what most people do and they're not craft shows. 30:25.708 --> 30:28.610 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they're not, I haven't done any like local farmers marketer in that kind of thing. 30:29.031 --> 30:35.114 [SPEAKER_01]: These are shows that my target audience, like the whole show is my target audience, right? 30:35.134 --> 30:35.955 [SPEAKER_01]: People are going there. 30:36.510 --> 30:37.439 [SPEAKER_01]: because they are hunters. 30:38.059 --> 30:40.240 [SPEAKER_01]: They're going there because they want to look at hunting gear. 30:40.260 --> 30:41.741 [SPEAKER_01]: They want to meet out fitting companies. 30:41.782 --> 30:49.767 [SPEAKER_01]: They want to check out different tree stands or saddle setups or rifle manufacturers or they want to come see some knives. 30:49.787 --> 30:52.709 [SPEAKER_01]: They're going there for hunting to get kidded out for hunting. 30:53.169 --> 30:54.210 [SPEAKER_01]: They are all hunters. 30:54.310 --> 31:00.074 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's why I really started doing the shows and have done really well at them, which has been great. 31:00.534 --> 31:03.076 [SPEAKER_01]: And I've never done, I've never been to like a play show. 31:03.756 --> 31:06.678 [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny, I always kind of feel like a little bit of an outsider in the knife world 31:07.859 --> 31:20.062 [SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, other than like talking to you guys and Ryan and you know some of the podcasts guys like I'm not super connected to a lot of other knife makers I've kind of been in my own bubble and just kind of focusing on going to where my. 31:20.553 --> 31:24.876 [SPEAKER_01]: target demographic is that and that is really that has really definitely paid off for me. 31:25.457 --> 31:26.698 [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, you are doing great. 31:26.938 --> 31:40.768 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you are doing better than other knife makers who are trying to sell everything to everybody and this, you know, this concrete vision and it seems like even from talking to you and looking at your social media and on your 31:47.213 --> 32:05.621 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and you touched about it a little bit, but where there are any little kind of collaborations where you want for the company to go and like marketing and product wise, as you said, like river knives, hunting knives, what's next? 32:06.861 --> 32:09.823 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you see the markets that you don't want to go, right? 32:09.983 --> 32:14.985 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, and so really what I've focused on is building nice for me, 32:16.281 --> 32:27.332 [SPEAKER_01]: I try to think about what I like to do, you know, what I'm into and what my friends like to do, what my friends are into and kind of think of that like, okay, this is the kind of person that I want to market to. 32:27.412 --> 32:29.474 [SPEAKER_01]: And so what kind of knives do we want? 32:29.594 --> 32:35.019 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the next thing on my list is a little like bird and trout style hunting and fishing knife for 32:35.712 --> 32:43.018 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Bird Hunt bird season fly fishing, that which is what I do, you know, I fish all summer long all spring, you know, we chase bird trout in Maine. 32:43.178 --> 32:54.767 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I'm trying to build tools that I will use and I think that kind of naturally lends itself to you being able to market those tools to the right kind of people because I know who those people are, you know, it's me. 32:54.967 --> 33:04.254 [SPEAKER_01]: So, that's been huge and then, you know, one of the other things that I've done to a lot of is like, you know, I got, I kind of got a lot of guys carry my knives 33:06.237 --> 33:31.489 [SPEAKER_01]: The guys that I aspire to be in the hunt world, you know, and they are all, you know, real repeatable hunters in the northeast and they're using my tools and they're providing feedback and that is, that is what has helped me develop the knife to where it is now is, you know, kind of what was working, what wasn't, what they like about it and also, once those guys start loving the knife that you're making and they start talking about it, then, you know, where to mouth carries a lot of weight that has helped a lot as well. 33:32.149 --> 33:40.116 [SPEAKER_00]: A, a very interesting topic would be to hear what goes into your R&D, you know, how do you feel it out? 33:40.616 --> 33:42.157 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, but actual work or not? 33:42.978 --> 33:45.320 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean a lot of it is you just got to use it, right? 33:46.321 --> 33:55.128 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and we have we have kind of the sort of we call it the walk-in-house pro staff, but it's, you know, three of my buddies that are way better hunters than I am. 33:55.148 --> 33:56.689 [SPEAKER_01]: They've been hunting their whole lives and 33:57.689 --> 34:06.591 [SPEAKER_01]: Every year I give those guys a you know a batch of knives and they take them out and they put them through the paces and we talk about them and we talk about what they like and what they don't and 34:07.545 --> 34:19.335 [SPEAKER_01]: That's really, I think the most valuable R&D right there and then aside from that, it's, you know, it goes hundreds of hours of sitting at the desk with the knife in your hand and testing the sheet fit and like, that's not right. 34:19.395 --> 34:20.456 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's make another mold. 34:32.003 --> 34:39.038 [SPEAKER_01]: I probably did that with this tracker my hunting model, I don't know 30 or 40 times before I ever made one in steel just to make sure that I had the shape right. 34:39.867 --> 34:48.809 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 3D printing works wonders and it's so rapid and you don't have to work on any work holding or work with steel, do the heat treatment. 34:49.369 --> 34:50.309 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just worth it, man. 34:51.009 --> 34:59.451 [SPEAKER_00]: I think with R&D, I have a little bit of a trap because I will be stuck on a problem, let's say ergonomic or with the 35:05.152 --> 35:30.502 [SPEAKER_00]: Fuck yeah, this is the best shit I've ever done you know, yeah, let's go let's go and it will be like for two days and then after that I will start then only then noticing the issues that the flaws that are still persisting and for me It makes the R&D process kind of really long, you know, but looked really good at the start of the week after like two weeks It's again, we are in the pile of shit 35:31.175 --> 35:33.997 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I've been there especially with the CNC work ran. 35:34.017 --> 35:37.060 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know how it is you can develop something and it's like, oh, this is all working out great. 35:37.580 --> 35:38.681 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you find a flaw. 35:39.021 --> 35:43.525 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, well, shit, that flaw is like eight steps back in this CNC process. 35:43.565 --> 35:44.826 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I got it. 35:44.846 --> 35:46.347 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I got to fix this. 35:46.367 --> 35:47.248 [SPEAKER_01]: I got to make a new mold. 35:47.308 --> 35:47.508 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 35:47.548 --> 35:53.312 [SPEAKER_01]: Now that I made that new mold, I've got to make a new fixture, you know, for the machine for when this comes off of that mold, and it's just. 35:54.113 --> 36:05.978 [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, for me, I like that process and I think that when you do get it dialed, it's a really cool feeling to be able to produce something that is high quality and consistent, you know, knife after knife after knife, I think is really cool. 36:07.091 --> 36:25.579 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, kaydex is great, but it's so easy to make shit sheets, you know, it's easy to make, but to get the quality that you want and the consistency, like one of the big process that you don't have to send in the back, the the knife back to make a new sheet. 36:25.679 --> 36:27.439 [SPEAKER_00]: You just can send out the whole sheet. 36:27.820 --> 36:33.042 [SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't tell you how many times like I probably landed three or four sales in Wisconsin alone because some guys would be like, 36:33.662 --> 36:34.983 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, oh, yeah, this is great. 36:35.003 --> 36:45.294 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, one guy he bought a knife for me and then he went and got his knife got the sheets signed by one of the hunters that was there and he was like talking to me afterwards and he's like, oh, man, you know, I'm going to be real fun if I lose this. 36:45.354 --> 36:48.277 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to take another sheet, you know, whatever, three other sheets. 36:48.904 --> 36:52.967 [SPEAKER_01]: And like a lot of times, you guys will be standing like, ah, do I want to get the green one or should I get the tan one? 36:53.067 --> 36:54.828 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I'm like, you know, taking both. 36:55.068 --> 36:56.609 [SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't, you know, it's no big deal, taking both. 36:57.250 --> 37:02.474 [SPEAKER_01]: And like just that little bit of extra like customer, you know, satisfaction has closed deals at the table for me. 37:02.954 --> 37:05.316 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so easy to do when all your stuff works together like that. 37:06.036 --> 37:10.940 [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, what is one extra sheet to close and I've deal for me in person like it's nothing, you know. 37:11.725 --> 37:15.528 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you have a very good, your customer is a fan now. 37:15.849 --> 37:18.991 [SPEAKER_00]: He got like two sheets for the same knife and it works. 37:19.151 --> 37:21.253 [SPEAKER_00]: And he can buy maybe another knife. 37:21.513 --> 37:24.616 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, he will have his pear sheath also. 37:24.716 --> 37:35.185 [SPEAKER_00]: If I remember correctly, you at the start of this year, you are working on a kind of improving your sheath system on how you are making it and the whole CNC workflow. 37:35.665 --> 37:42.167 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you want to share everything I made a lot of changes to everything including how I do my handles this year. 37:43.268 --> 38:02.994 [SPEAKER_01]: And so let me think about how I was doing this previously so previously I would basically I was everything that I was doing on the CNC I was doing with these little clamps that would hold everything down and you know you'd have two hard stops on one or two sides kind of like a like you over the fence, but and I clamp against that inevitably. 38:04.168 --> 38:07.389 [SPEAKER_01]: When you do that, especially because my CNC has a MDF waste board. 38:07.449 --> 38:27.852 [SPEAKER_01]: So even those little clamps that are in that waste board over time, as you clamp against them, they're going to move, you know, tiny little mounts and I was starting to run into issues where I'm putting sheets together and they're not lining up just perfectly and when it's off by a little bit and your tolerances are tight, all of a sudden the knife starts fitting little funny or the sheet doesn't look like it closes all the way when the knife's in it. 38:28.573 --> 38:30.373 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was running into all these little issues and so. 38:31.463 --> 38:52.197 [SPEAKER_01]: And also the way I was doing my handle scales before because I was clamping the sheet and then I was cutting them out of I was leaving them all tab and so then I'd have to break them out of that sheet and clean up the tabs by hand and it's like why am I doing this extra step when I've got a CNC machine that if I can figure out to do this right can just cut it all the way out, you know, so with the handle scales I'm now you know, and then. 38:52.517 --> 39:08.380 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm jealous of the way you do it, but I haven't really figured out how to do it with my handle scales because they're so thin and they have so many little screws that it's just way more of a pain to screw them down and then have the machine cut them out so I'm actually using a tape them down method, which is working phenomenally. 39:09.254 --> 39:33.343 [SPEAKER_01]: And with my with the sheets, what I'm doing for the fixture on the table so that I know it's not moving from clamping it in and out is I'm actually I basically created these smaller MDF waste boards that locate into different locations on the machine and then the fixture that goes on the table for the sheath to go on to when it gets cut out is screwed down to the table and then machine in place and then it never comes off. 39:39.156 --> 39:45.921 [SPEAKER_01]: So when the form kidex goes on it, before it gets cut out, I know it's in the exact same place every single time. 39:45.941 --> 39:48.223 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's been in a huge for the sheets. 39:49.023 --> 39:57.850 [SPEAKER_01]: And with the handle system, that little throw away piece of MDF that I'm using, I can just resurface that real quick, tape another set of scales down. 39:58.410 --> 40:04.315 [SPEAKER_01]: And I get probably 20 or 30 sheets out of each one of those before I have to put a new one on. 40:05.473 --> 40:20.116 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been it's been working really good in the tape down method for how because my handle scales are just so thin and I don't want to put all these screws and it just works really slick and it's been super easy to clean up so I've been loving doing it that way and now they come off the machine completely done you know I'm doing anything I feel a tape off and they're done. 40:20.216 --> 40:23.056 [SPEAKER_00]: You're using a double sided tape or you're using this to put glue. 40:23.456 --> 40:27.197 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm using a double sided tape it's really really thin it's an expensive tape. 40:27.797 --> 40:32.378 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't think of what it's called off the top of my head, but I could let you know, but it works phenomenal it's incredibly strong. 40:33.415 --> 40:44.485 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't had a scale pop-off once and it's it's a really it's I don't know Whatever their process is the thickness of the tape is super accurate So I just account for that in my modeling and it works out great. 40:44.765 --> 40:57.656 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you said you you would like to do it like I am doing it holding it down with screws, but you don't put the put in so many screws and there are so many screws in your handles a lot But you you can just use like forest screws or two screws. 40:58.076 --> 40:59.618 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it just still seems like a lot 41:01.394 --> 41:02.054 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a small. 41:02.154 --> 41:02.775 [SPEAKER_00]: So really small. 41:02.895 --> 41:03.055 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 41:03.075 --> 41:04.936 [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like just machining that. 41:05.076 --> 41:06.037 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know. 41:06.217 --> 41:15.982 [SPEAKER_01]: The way I'm doing it now with the tape works so good that it's until I have a bigger machine that I'm going to, you know, have to figure out better fixturing for I think we're just going to stick with the way we're doing it. 41:16.702 --> 41:16.902 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 41:16.922 --> 41:21.145 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe then you will be doing like vacuum tables, that's what also work, you know? 41:21.485 --> 41:22.245 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah. 41:22.345 --> 41:23.106 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to try that. 41:24.020 --> 41:32.892 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sounds great, and just going before we play the game because of course I've prepared this allegedly. 41:33.173 --> 41:34.755 [SPEAKER_03]: I have tons of questions, Pauli. 41:35.235 --> 41:36.337 [SPEAKER_03]: I have tons of questions. 41:36.597 --> 41:37.478 [SPEAKER_03]: You wouldn't let me talk. 41:38.420 --> 41:38.720 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 41:38.740 --> 41:39.021 [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry. 41:40.362 --> 41:40.903 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, sorry. 41:41.223 --> 41:42.103 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see if you remember. 41:42.143 --> 41:42.664 [SPEAKER_01]: What do we get? 41:42.724 --> 41:43.104 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah. 41:43.364 --> 41:45.746 [SPEAKER_03]: So you started your business with these river knives. 41:46.086 --> 41:49.028 [SPEAKER_03]: So what's important properties on these river knives? 41:49.188 --> 41:51.110 [SPEAKER_03]: I suppose it's corrosion resistance. 41:51.530 --> 41:51.770 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 41:52.070 --> 41:53.071 [SPEAKER_03]: Easily deplorable. 41:53.191 --> 42:00.396 [SPEAKER_03]: And second question is a follow-up question would be, what did you learn by building these river knives which helped you build hunting knives? 42:00.836 --> 42:12.045 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so the most important thing with the river knife was that sheath system and making sure that that knife stays put at all times because that was the biggest issue with all the other knives on the market. 42:12.705 --> 42:18.150 [SPEAKER_01]: The other thing which is kind of hilarious that people always rave about when they get one of my river knives is, oh my god, it'll cut. 42:19.330 --> 42:20.291 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, well, okay. 42:20.631 --> 42:24.955 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a knife should cut, but these river knives that come from these companies that are 42:29.434 --> 42:35.501 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, a throwback rope with it, which is a problem because that's what it should be able to cut through rapidly down as fuck. 42:35.561 --> 42:35.902 [SPEAKER_03]: Usually. 42:35.942 --> 42:37.463 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's insane. 42:37.624 --> 42:38.545 [SPEAKER_03]: It's insane. 42:38.585 --> 42:40.307 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you or even as come with serrations? 42:40.747 --> 42:44.632 [SPEAKER_01]: So I do I do I do basically I have four variations of that knife. 42:44.672 --> 42:48.897 [SPEAKER_01]: I've got two that are drop point one with serrations one with the straight edge. 42:49.767 --> 42:51.888 [SPEAKER_01]: and two that are blunt-tipped, same thing. 42:52.989 --> 43:01.373 [SPEAKER_01]: And the serrations, I always kind of tell people that if they are the kind of person who takes care of their knife, they keep it sharp, like the serrations aren't necessarily necessary. 43:01.973 --> 43:10.137 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're like the typical raft guide that isn't going to do anything to take care of your knife forever, go with serrations because even if it starts to get a little dull, it's probably going to cut better. 43:10.618 --> 43:15.180 [SPEAKER_01]: Especially when you've got rope that's under tension and that typical entrapment situation. 43:16.146 --> 43:17.967 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, a lot of guys really love the serrations. 43:18.107 --> 43:19.408 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they wouldn't buy a knife without them. 43:19.488 --> 43:21.189 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's another reason I do them. 43:21.289 --> 43:26.313 [SPEAKER_01]: I do all the serrations by hand, which is a little bit tedious, but They come out pretty good and I think it's worth it. 43:26.393 --> 43:32.016 [SPEAKER_01]: But back to your question, the, you know, the sheath system having a super high level of retention. 43:32.737 --> 43:39.020 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, the knife has to be corrosion resistant because it's used in the water daily, whether you're kayaking or rafting. 43:39.061 --> 43:39.701 [SPEAKER_01]: It's getting wet. 43:40.600 --> 43:51.196 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and, you know, one of the things with that too is like, because on my hunting knives, I skeletonized all the tanks, and I was thinking about doing that with the river knife and then I'm like, wow, you know, there's 43:51.669 --> 43:58.010 [SPEAKER_01]: a pretty high chance of water's inevitably going to get underneath these handle scales into that cavity and then we're going to run into problems. 43:58.090 --> 44:08.893 [SPEAKER_01]: So my river knife, the guardian and the tripper models are just a solid full tank, which makes them a little bit heavier, but then you have to worry about that water getting in there and staying in their and causing issues. 44:10.073 --> 44:15.174 [SPEAKER_01]: This past year I brought out a new model called the crux, which has a fully skeletonized handle. 44:15.214 --> 44:17.935 [SPEAKER_01]: So the tank and the scales are all skeletonized. 44:18.795 --> 44:25.258 [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason for that was weight reduction, but the reason that I skeletonized the handle scales too is that water's not getting trapped underneath them. 44:26.498 --> 44:28.439 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm also, I'm making that one in Magna Cuts. 44:28.459 --> 44:34.742 [SPEAKER_01]: So I, you know, it's a good salt water option for people that are sea kayaking or maybe you're working out on a lobster boat and you want the same kind of tool. 44:36.322 --> 44:46.026 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, and so, and then, you know, on top of that, the thing that I was doing, my river knives originally, when I was back when I was using pins and I was gluing up, I was using liner material for the handle scales. 44:46.946 --> 44:50.728 [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason I was doing that was because I wanted that knife to be really thin and low profile. 44:51.268 --> 45:09.865 [SPEAKER_01]: And not have any bulk at all because it's on your chest, essentially on your PFT and so as I moved over towards using like a bolt on construction that I'm doing now I spent a lot of time infusion modeling like okay what is the absolute thinnest scale that I can use and still. 45:10.505 --> 45:14.689 [SPEAKER_01]: have access to hardware that is readily available that I can purchase to put this together. 45:14.729 --> 45:17.612 [SPEAKER_01]: So my tolerances are incredibly tight. 45:18.433 --> 45:23.458 [SPEAKER_01]: I've like, you know, almost no margin for error on the thickness of the handle scale and the steel. 45:24.258 --> 45:27.942 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is resulted in me being able to use a super thin handle scale. 45:28.622 --> 45:34.328 [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason that I brought that same philosophy from the river knife over to the hunting knife and that I think has been a huge hit for me is that 45:35.289 --> 45:38.230 [SPEAKER_01]: When I go out hunting, I'm tracking in the North East. 45:38.250 --> 45:41.432 [SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of days, I'll carry like just a waste pack. 45:41.452 --> 45:43.172 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have like a backpack and I'm a big kid. 45:43.192 --> 45:45.173 [SPEAKER_01]: I usually don't have a vinyl harness or anything like that. 45:45.874 --> 45:52.897 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'll just throw my knife in my waste pack and with that knife being so thin, I can slip it into a pocket and it just disappears. 45:53.877 --> 45:55.399 [SPEAKER_01]: it doesn't take up any space in the pack. 45:55.499 --> 45:57.100 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that has been a huge hit with people. 45:57.140 --> 46:01.785 [SPEAKER_01]: And same thing, if they are putting it on a bino harness or a chest rig of some sort, it's low profile. 46:01.805 --> 46:05.048 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not bulky, just like when it's, you know, when the river knife is on a P.F.D. 46:05.688 --> 46:12.154 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that was like the biggest carryover from the river knife into the hunting knife that I think worked really well at the end of the day. 46:12.274 --> 46:13.635 [SPEAKER_03]: Wouldn't it work without scales? 46:13.876 --> 46:15.097 [SPEAKER_03]: Like just steel? 46:15.457 --> 46:41.480 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, so that that goes back and I have played around with that a little bit, but that goes back to my sheath system a lot of the reason why that sheath works as well as it does is because of the handle the scale design the shape of the scale and how that scale interacts with the geometry I put inside the sheath and so the scale provides a ton of benefit there and I just find that cold steel in your hand is not the most pleasant thing. 46:42.145 --> 46:45.446 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, cold water, if you're out on the river, it's not that nice to hold on to you. 46:46.027 --> 46:52.209 [SPEAKER_01]: When we're up here in the woods, a lot of the hunting that we do is on snow and, you know, brain, you name it. 46:52.249 --> 46:56.111 [SPEAKER_01]: So just like having cold steel in your hand, I just found a never be all that pleasant. 46:56.151 --> 47:01.954 [SPEAKER_01]: And that, you know, I don't want to make the steel thicker and it feels like it's be a little bit thin to have a nice grip on the knife. 47:01.994 --> 47:07.136 [SPEAKER_01]: So putting a scale on, I do feel as essential, but keeping the whole package still is low profiles. 47:07.156 --> 47:11.958 [SPEAKER_01]: You can while achieving that comfort is kind of in the recipe for what I'm trying to do. 47:12.202 --> 47:15.285 [SPEAKER_03]: So for Hattlet material, you go for T10, how's it post? 47:15.566 --> 47:16.847 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've been using all G10. 47:17.608 --> 47:19.250 [SPEAKER_01]: The reason for that is it's easy to machine. 47:19.350 --> 47:20.111 [SPEAKER_01]: It's great to work with. 47:20.351 --> 47:22.153 [SPEAKER_01]: It's pulled proof. 47:22.193 --> 47:23.594 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't stain or change color. 47:23.735 --> 47:31.043 [SPEAKER_01]: And like I said, Raf guys are, they're throwing their PFT with that knife on the outside of it in the back of a pickup truck. 47:31.083 --> 47:31.323 [SPEAKER_01]: And then, 47:31.892 --> 47:36.454 [SPEAKER_01]: people are climbing in the pickup truck to do a shallow ride and they're walking on it and you know, just they get abused. 47:36.474 --> 47:39.056 [SPEAKER_01]: So I've just found that G tank can take the abuse. 47:40.196 --> 47:42.698 [SPEAKER_01]: It does what I wanted to do and it's just been a good material to work with. 47:42.798 --> 47:44.459 [SPEAKER_03]: What's your favorite river knife? 47:44.519 --> 47:45.579 [SPEAKER_03]: Does it have serrations? 47:46.160 --> 47:47.140 [SPEAKER_03]: Does it have a blunt tip? 47:47.881 --> 47:48.761 [SPEAKER_03]: What's your favorite? 47:49.121 --> 47:50.222 [SPEAKER_01]: I've got two. 47:50.422 --> 47:56.065 [SPEAKER_01]: I carried the blunt tips, rated guardian on my PFT when I'm white water kayaking and raf guiding. 47:56.922 --> 48:11.465 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I've got another PFD that I use when I'm like canoe tripping and when I go canoe tripping, I'll take a straight edge drop point just because I'm much less likely to be needing it for a rescue scenario way more likely to pull it out to get a fish in the boat or do some kind of camp chore. 48:11.585 --> 48:13.746 [SPEAKER_03]: Did you have a half to use your rescue knife? 48:14.126 --> 48:18.307 [SPEAKER_01]: I have never had to use it in a like a true emergency situation. 48:18.787 --> 48:20.027 [SPEAKER_01]: I've used it more for. 48:20.767 --> 48:23.129 [SPEAKER_01]: on the flyboat repairs or you know that kind of thing. 48:23.950 --> 48:28.173 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do know there was a guy that guided for the same company I guided for in Maine. 48:29.034 --> 48:41.023 [SPEAKER_01]: Probably about six or seven years before me who was in a serious rope and trapman situation where he had actually thrown a throwback out to a swimmer and the bag he didn't realize had wrapped around his leg and the bag. 48:41.549 --> 48:53.599 [SPEAKER_01]: caught a rock in the river and it pulled them out of the boat when it did because the bag was caught up river from him, it pulled tension and he went straight underwater almost to the bottom and he was actually able to draw a river knife. 48:53.639 --> 48:56.882 [SPEAKER_01]: This wasn't one of my knives, but he had an older school river knife on his BFD. 48:57.442 --> 49:04.208 [SPEAKER_01]: He was able to draw it and achieve these like superhuman situps to get to his leg and caught himself free. 49:04.228 --> 49:06.590 [SPEAKER_01]: He cut the hell out of his leg in the process what has saved his life. 49:11.045 --> 49:13.848 [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty we've got we've got three rivers. 49:14.208 --> 49:15.229 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let me double check. 49:15.249 --> 49:29.962 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got we've got five rivers that are commercially raftered Two of which run every single day of the year and one that runs like Seven or eight times a year and then the other two are like two or three times a year with scheduled releases so main actually we've got this really unique system where 49:30.692 --> 49:32.873 [SPEAKER_01]: kind of like Canada, we have these big hydroelectric dams. 49:34.034 --> 49:47.161 [SPEAKER_01]: And there were some guys that were very forward thinking in really smart 30 years ago when the dams were going through a licensing process that lobbied for and actually achieved a recreational flow agreement and the licensing. 49:47.982 --> 49:51.944 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we have scheduled water on one of our rivers from 10 a.m. to 1 p.m. 49:52.852 --> 49:56.254 [SPEAKER_01]: all summer long and 24 hours a day on another river all summer long. 49:56.974 --> 50:05.358 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we've got seven scheduled recreation releases on the dead river and one scheduled recreation release on the subumic and a handful on Canada Falls. 50:05.418 --> 50:07.038 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's pretty incredible. 50:07.259 --> 50:07.559 [SPEAKER_03]: Nice. 50:08.039 --> 50:10.680 [SPEAKER_03]: What's the difficult to level on these rivers? 50:11.240 --> 50:12.221 [SPEAKER_01]: It depends who you ask. 50:12.261 --> 50:13.401 [SPEAKER_01]: You ask a raft guide up there. 50:13.421 --> 50:15.302 [SPEAKER_01]: They'll tell you it's all class four or five wild. 50:15.342 --> 50:18.684 [SPEAKER_01]: But yes, someone who does some real class five paddling and I'd say 50:21.553 --> 50:22.554 [SPEAKER_01]: But they're really good rivers. 50:22.574 --> 50:24.035 [SPEAKER_01]: We go to the kind of bad quite often. 50:24.055 --> 50:25.597 [SPEAKER_01]: It's only an hour, 15 for my house. 50:26.377 --> 50:28.239 [SPEAKER_01]: And the West Branch is the harder river. 50:28.319 --> 50:30.401 [SPEAKER_01]: The West Branch of the Pinobscot. 50:30.421 --> 50:31.302 [SPEAKER_01]: A little bit more technical. 50:31.322 --> 50:32.323 [SPEAKER_01]: And that one's really remote. 50:32.403 --> 50:33.404 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's no bar scene. 50:33.424 --> 50:34.965 [SPEAKER_01]: It's more like campfires and camping. 50:35.005 --> 50:39.009 [SPEAKER_01]: And the kind of backs got a little rafting town with a bar and it's a fun hangout town. 50:39.169 --> 50:42.251 [SPEAKER_03]: But the official episode is four to five. 50:42.311 --> 50:44.814 [SPEAKER_01]: So in the US, we use a one to five scale. 50:44.954 --> 50:46.155 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, over here too. 50:46.811 --> 50:49.973 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then, well, technically, there's a six, but they'd consider that unrunnable. 50:50.033 --> 50:51.674 [SPEAKER_01]: So anything runnable is in a one to five. 50:51.714 --> 50:54.316 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the river you're paddling is four to five. 50:54.616 --> 51:01.380 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I, we've felt, so that's the other thing about, I mean, is there's an incredible amount of little creeks, you know, that are seasonal. 51:01.400 --> 51:02.480 [SPEAKER_01]: So they'll run in the spring. 51:02.921 --> 51:05.282 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, right, my house is two minutes from the Carbass River. 51:05.302 --> 51:06.503 [SPEAKER_01]: We're right in Carbass Valley. 51:06.923 --> 51:14.388 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's like a really fun class for run and that runs in the spring or after a big thunderstorm or a big rain, you know, so it's 10 minutes down the road, this is awesome. 51:15.048 --> 51:17.890 [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's some class four class five creeks all over the state. 51:18.150 --> 51:19.651 [SPEAKER_03]: Paulie, where are laughing? 51:20.091 --> 51:20.551 [SPEAKER_01]: It's okay. 51:20.571 --> 51:20.932 [SPEAKER_00]: It's fine. 51:20.992 --> 51:21.472 [SPEAKER_00]: It's fine. 51:21.652 --> 51:22.052 [SPEAKER_00]: It's fine. 51:22.252 --> 51:22.593 [SPEAKER_01]: It's fine. 51:22.653 --> 51:25.194 [SPEAKER_03]: You didn't notice I did some wide or a kayaking myself. 51:25.214 --> 51:25.515 [SPEAKER_03]: Did you? 51:25.895 --> 51:26.275 [SPEAKER_01]: I did not. 51:26.355 --> 51:27.876 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you about to get some kayaking? 51:28.176 --> 51:28.496 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 51:28.817 --> 51:29.437 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh hell yeah. 51:30.038 --> 51:31.499 [SPEAKER_03]: but only up to four minus. 51:31.779 --> 51:32.839 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, are you still battling? 51:33.079 --> 51:33.919 [SPEAKER_03]: Occasionally, yeah. 51:33.999 --> 51:39.281 [SPEAKER_03]: But I was, I mean, I was battling like two or three times a week because we're living in the Alps. 51:39.341 --> 51:40.441 [SPEAKER_03]: So we have tons of rivers. 51:40.802 --> 51:41.782 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, I didn't. 51:41.942 --> 51:42.202 [SPEAKER_01]: What are you? 51:42.222 --> 51:43.703 [SPEAKER_01]: What kind of body battling? 51:43.923 --> 51:44.203 [SPEAKER_03]: Set. 51:44.563 --> 51:45.303 [SPEAKER_03]: Yep. 51:45.323 --> 51:46.023 [SPEAKER_03]: Check company. 51:46.584 --> 51:47.684 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, ZET, right? 51:47.964 --> 51:49.224 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, ZET, right? 51:49.244 --> 51:50.145 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they, yeah. 51:50.245 --> 51:51.925 [SPEAKER_01]: There's like a few guys that have those over here. 51:52.345 --> 51:53.306 [SPEAKER_01]: They're harder to get here. 51:53.366 --> 51:55.166 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, they look like cool. 51:55.406 --> 51:56.427 [SPEAKER_03]: But what are you kayaking? 51:56.927 --> 51:57.767 [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a prana. 52:00.543 --> 52:04.685 [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a couple old school dagger RPMs that like is my favorite boat to paddle. 52:05.285 --> 52:06.505 [SPEAKER_01]: I think those are on the kind of back a lot. 52:06.525 --> 52:08.106 [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a little play boat to you, but I'm getting old. 52:08.206 --> 52:10.627 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know like play boat as much anymore. 52:10.707 --> 52:15.608 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, my back's all messed up from too many big waterfalls and stuff to you. 52:15.648 --> 52:19.790 [SPEAKER_01]: So I like to hop in that old RPM and just get out there and serve some big ways and have fun. 52:20.050 --> 52:22.091 [SPEAKER_03]: What's the hardest river you've ever paddled? 52:22.531 --> 52:24.592 [SPEAKER_03]: So level level wise. 52:25.432 --> 52:27.573 [SPEAKER_01]: Probably Gulf Hague is the main, which is a class five. 52:29.168 --> 52:32.250 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't done a ton of boating outside of New England just because I'm kind of a home body. 52:33.111 --> 52:36.374 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that that's sort of one of the pinnacle runs in the state. 52:36.854 --> 52:38.255 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's an addictive sport, man. 52:38.315 --> 52:39.276 [SPEAKER_02]: I got into this. 52:39.376 --> 52:43.319 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was like a, I was a freshman in college, I think, when I got started. 52:43.939 --> 52:45.601 [SPEAKER_01]: And it kind of took over my life for a while. 52:47.002 --> 52:49.544 [SPEAKER_01]: So much other that I lived in a tent out by the river for 10 years. 52:49.584 --> 52:51.545 [SPEAKER_01]: So I actually, I take that back. 52:51.585 --> 52:54.908 [SPEAKER_01]: I upgraded to a camper behind the bar on like your three. 52:56.728 --> 53:03.636 [SPEAKER_03]: Most paddlers, too, at some point, but I'm still like a tent guy if I'm going kayaking. 53:03.891 --> 53:04.652 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we've got a lot. 53:04.672 --> 53:07.254 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got, there's actually my favorite trip of the year. 53:07.294 --> 53:09.015 [SPEAKER_01]: We do in September every year. 53:09.875 --> 53:12.137 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a river up in northern Maine called the Subumek. 53:12.197 --> 53:15.420 [SPEAKER_01]: And it only runs one day a year, which is the Saturday of Labor Day weekend. 53:16.240 --> 53:17.901 [SPEAKER_01]: And they do like a 1500 release on it. 53:17.941 --> 53:22.465 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a, it's a really fun, like, clean chill river. 53:22.625 --> 53:24.126 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's in the middle and nowhere. 53:24.726 --> 53:29.210 [SPEAKER_01]: And so there's all these little like sanction campsites and camp, you know, locations. 53:29.730 --> 53:57.360 [SPEAKER_01]: on the lake and on the river and stuff and like this little piece of the north main wood turns into like this mini festival this one weekend a year because all these people come from all over to come paddle the stretch of river and you get out and there's just people all over the river it's always nice September you know the waters warm the you know the air still warm during the day it's cool it and I like it's just perfect we all go up and camp out you know we've I've had the same campsite for the last 14 years because I go up like the Tuesday before so no one can 54:00.174 --> 54:01.415 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a good time. 54:01.656 --> 54:03.358 [SPEAKER_03]: We have something very similar over here. 54:03.458 --> 54:07.823 [SPEAKER_03]: We have a few rivers that are most deoccupied by patterns all year around. 54:07.984 --> 54:16.354 [SPEAKER_03]: So we have the salsa in Austria and the sota in Slovenia, which is close, which is three to four, I'd say, at the most. 54:16.955 --> 54:23.541 [SPEAKER_03]: and the whole river is packed with kayakers and rafters and there's tons of rafting schoolster. 54:23.961 --> 54:31.988 [SPEAKER_03]: So all the kangaroo dead deaths, like four or five camp grounds in one village with, I think, 500 inhabitants or something. 54:32.500 --> 54:35.443 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's kind of like the sounds kind of like the forks here in Maine. 54:35.523 --> 54:38.506 [SPEAKER_01]: Our little rafting town that the year-round population is 38. 54:40.168 --> 54:42.830 [SPEAKER_01]: But in the summer, it blows up into this rafting town. 54:42.891 --> 54:43.491 [SPEAKER_01]: It's awesome. 54:43.691 --> 54:44.632 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a really fun place. 54:45.093 --> 54:45.373 [SPEAKER_03]: It is. 54:45.413 --> 54:45.633 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 54:45.934 --> 54:46.975 [SPEAKER_03]: It's exactly the same. 54:46.995 --> 54:50.158 [SPEAKER_01]: So the real question is what are you carrying for a knife? 54:50.418 --> 55:11.858 [SPEAKER_03]: I bought one of these chiefs, that's why I was asking, I bought one of these cheap folding rescue knives, and it has rust on it, and that annoyed the shit out of me, so yeah, I bought the kayak and all this stuff before I was starting building knives, so I thought I would have built my own, but I still carried this cheap, everything was 50 euros or something. 55:12.433 --> 55:14.194 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, is it one of the NRS folders? 55:14.475 --> 55:15.195 [SPEAKER_03]: I think so, yeah. 55:15.415 --> 55:22.120 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they just, yeah, they just, yeah, they just, yeah, they were the notorious, you know, knife that falls off everybody's PFT. 55:22.620 --> 55:24.161 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, who knows what they're using. 55:24.201 --> 55:27.423 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you know, Chinese unlabeled steel. 55:27.964 --> 55:31.306 [SPEAKER_03]: No, they claim it's for, what do you say? 55:31.586 --> 55:32.587 [SPEAKER_03]: For 40C or something? 55:33.067 --> 55:37.831 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, yeah, that's what they say, but I never had to use it, luckily. 55:38.051 --> 55:38.251 [SPEAKER_03]: So. 55:38.557 --> 55:42.879 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, generally if you are using a river knife for it's intended purpose. 55:42.920 --> 55:43.900 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to be a good day. 55:44.120 --> 55:45.461 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but it's still carried. 55:45.961 --> 55:46.261 [SPEAKER_03]: Of course. 55:46.281 --> 55:48.743 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, it's one of those things, man. 55:48.783 --> 55:55.587 [SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, I've talked to some guys who are like, oh, I just have a, you know, a folding knife and so I might be if he's like, I never need to use it. 55:55.627 --> 56:03.051 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I have an either man, but that one day if you do need to I'll tell you what, I'm not going to be the guy that's got not being able to get to my knife. 56:03.298 --> 56:04.059 [SPEAKER_03]: It's an insurance. 56:04.499 --> 56:06.181 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what you're paying for. 56:06.802 --> 56:08.844 [SPEAKER_03]: And we all pay for insurance shit loads of money. 56:08.904 --> 56:11.586 [SPEAKER_03]: So why not for a knife that might save our life? 56:11.726 --> 56:15.530 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's why we buy PFDs and what's he called an English dry suits. 56:15.791 --> 56:16.631 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not for paddling. 56:16.792 --> 56:19.234 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's called dry suits. 56:19.494 --> 56:22.457 [SPEAKER_03]: Yep, dry suits and proper kayaks and stuff. 56:22.477 --> 56:26.741 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's why we buy all these safety equipment just in case, right? 56:26.842 --> 56:27.082 [SPEAKER_03]: So. 56:27.522 --> 56:29.303 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I had no idea that you were a voter, dude. 56:29.323 --> 56:29.963 [SPEAKER_01]: That's awesome. 56:30.804 --> 56:32.165 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't do poly. 56:33.285 --> 56:34.366 [SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't do poly. 56:34.386 --> 56:34.826 [SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome. 56:35.246 --> 56:36.647 [SPEAKER_00]: That's actually a really good segment. 56:36.847 --> 56:41.029 [SPEAKER_03]: But if you're living in the office, that's one thing you can do while you're around, so. 56:41.290 --> 56:47.053 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so do you guys have, is it mostly just run off, or do you have, like, flow control rivers or how's all that work? 56:47.133 --> 56:49.174 [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's directly from the mountains. 56:49.394 --> 56:51.055 [SPEAKER_03]: So there's no controlled water flow. 56:51.735 --> 56:58.602 [SPEAKER_03]: So the first day I was kayaking was when we had this massive brain for like two or three days heavy rains. 56:58.622 --> 57:00.403 [SPEAKER_03]: So we had it's called high water. 57:00.623 --> 57:01.564 [SPEAKER_03]: What's it called in English? 57:02.185 --> 57:14.136 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, the water is if there's if there's much more water in the river than usually and we had to go under a few bridges and we had to duck because the water level was so high. 57:14.336 --> 57:25.074 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got some runs like that that we do that because a lot of the main ones is all logging land and so there's all these logging bridges they build over these little streams and there's a couple of runs where you got to do the like super leaner kind of half roll. 57:25.878 --> 57:51.832 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but people thought we were crazy when we did that because no one was on the river on these days But which just us and we didn't know so we we that's a river You're very familiar with because it's kind of close It's like a 30 minutes drive, but yeah, it was surprising to us because if you know a river You know every rock and every of corner and everything, but if there is so much water it becomes a whole different river 57:52.310 --> 57:53.191 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, big time. 57:53.951 --> 57:59.514 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember around I was on with my buddy on a little local stream here called Sandy stream and I mean we had paddled it. 57:59.634 --> 58:12.782 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know 100 times prior and we did it when you're, you know, just crazy high water and there's like this corner on the river where usually there's this big ledge on your left and you could kind of like Eddie out next to this ledge above the drop and sort of look down over the drop. 58:13.429 --> 58:22.034 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we were like, we're coming in and set up to catch that Eddie and that Eddie was gone and that legends, usually there that you like lean on when you're looking down was a pour over. 58:22.054 --> 58:26.996 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we had no choice for like, oh, he said, I guess we're sending it over the borough. 58:27.016 --> 58:29.838 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so you just boof that drop and all of a sudden you're in the rap in the whole rap. 58:29.878 --> 58:33.359 [SPEAKER_01]: It's different now as the water's coming into it at a completely different angle. 58:33.379 --> 58:37.902 [SPEAKER_01]: We're like, oh, Jesus, maybe we should look at the next one. 58:39.035 --> 58:41.097 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we call it fighting deriver. 58:41.117 --> 58:41.778 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, here. 58:42.439 --> 58:43.360 [SPEAKER_03]: If you have to do that. 58:43.940 --> 58:45.482 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, good times. 58:45.862 --> 58:46.223 [SPEAKER_01]: It's fun. 58:46.403 --> 58:47.164 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a nice sport. 58:48.125 --> 58:49.826 [SPEAKER_01]: Probably if you've ever been like whitewater rafting. 58:49.846 --> 58:50.247 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 58:50.952 --> 59:07.301 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been two times kayaking in my life and we have very boring rivers, so it's like eight, but 19 kilometers of just sometimes stopping drinking, pacing, and then kayaking again, and then you just repeat it. 59:08.101 --> 59:10.622 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a leisurely activity. 59:10.782 --> 59:12.543 [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds so fun. 59:12.563 --> 59:15.885 [SPEAKER_00]: It's also fun that you have some interesting, you know, lunch off. 59:16.105 --> 59:20.808 [SPEAKER_03]: I can take you white water rafting if you want to when you're here. 59:21.029 --> 59:27.473 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, if you'll see how I feel after the diveshawastria, if the cells are good, I'm happy. 59:27.873 --> 59:28.374 [SPEAKER_00]: I might go. 59:28.774 --> 59:32.457 [SPEAKER_00]: If I'm sad, if I'm sad, I will go and suicide. 59:32.877 --> 59:33.777 [SPEAKER_00]: The instant suicide. 59:34.338 --> 59:35.839 [SPEAKER_03]: That is not that expensive. 59:35.859 --> 59:39.561 [SPEAKER_03]: Even rafting is in my opinion way easier than kayaking, 59:43.284 --> 59:47.909 [SPEAKER_01]: I always tell people rafting is like riding in a school bus and kayaking is like riding a dirt bike. 59:48.449 --> 59:49.290 [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly. 59:49.611 --> 59:50.291 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 59:50.732 --> 59:55.277 [SPEAKER_00]: So wait, so rafting is like, I just sit there and some dudes does all the things. 59:55.497 --> 59:57.138 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you got a paddle a little bit. 59:58.320 --> 59:59.681 [SPEAKER_01]: He tells you what you have to do. 01:00:00.362 --> 01:00:03.265 [SPEAKER_01]: Or you could be like most customers that come and don't do what they're supposed to do. 01:00:05.381 --> 01:00:06.561 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, oh, that sounds fun. 01:00:07.101 --> 01:00:10.622 [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds, it sounds like I'm all for all the fun you know there. 01:00:11.043 --> 01:00:12.323 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it like, it's not that bad. 01:00:12.563 --> 01:00:13.143 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that bad. 01:00:13.243 --> 01:00:14.223 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm almost sold. 01:00:14.844 --> 01:00:15.364 [SPEAKER_00]: Almost sold. 01:00:15.844 --> 01:00:16.604 [SPEAKER_01]: You'd have a blast. 01:00:16.644 --> 01:00:17.304 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of fun. 01:00:17.744 --> 01:00:22.105 [SPEAKER_01]: It is, yeah, especially when you just go with friends, you know, do your own trip. 01:00:22.165 --> 01:00:22.766 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a good time. 01:00:23.406 --> 01:00:30.048 [SPEAKER_00]: Up, but this is Rd's like tracks, like pretty long, how, what's the average length of such an attraction? 01:00:30.368 --> 01:00:31.288 [SPEAKER_03]: It depends on the river. 01:00:31.809 --> 01:00:36.874 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but this is like like 40 minutes or like good two hours of shaking and baking, you know? 01:00:36.994 --> 01:00:38.535 [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's more like 40 minutes over here. 01:00:38.895 --> 01:00:39.096 [SPEAKER_01]: Talk. 01:00:39.356 --> 01:00:45.682 [SPEAKER_01]: Most of our commercial rivers up here are like a like a 3 to 5 hour day. 01:00:45.702 --> 01:00:46.923 [SPEAKER_01]: 3 to that long. 01:00:47.563 --> 01:00:52.728 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's like it's like an hour of good white water while the dead rivers white water for 16 miles, which is awesome. 01:00:53.352 --> 01:00:54.394 [SPEAKER_01]: That's my favorite run in the year. 01:00:54.976 --> 01:01:03.994 [SPEAKER_01]: The counterback is like, you've got like 40 minutes or so a really good white water and then you've got like a, you know, two hour float of just hanging out and drinking beer. 01:01:04.810 --> 01:01:22.299 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was only counting the interesting part so yeah, yeah, it's just like, it's the interesting part really isn't it like physically intensive or is it like, you know, you are always stands and like, I shit I got a hold and like, oh, no, I'm gonna die. 01:01:22.339 --> 01:01:22.959 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna die. 01:01:23.140 --> 01:01:31.564 [SPEAKER_01]: I've wanted in my mouth, but I'm to pass through your guide is I guess, and then depends what kind of adventure you're looking for. 01:01:32.127 --> 01:01:46.238 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like the rivers that we laugh commercially here, there's like a very set line that every boat takes and like, you know, I could steer a boat full of people that don't touch the water once down that blindfolded But there's also a lot of places you can go that commercials don't that make it really exciting. 01:01:47.359 --> 01:01:51.282 [SPEAKER_01]: Polls you can run drops you can, you know, Get as wild as you want. 01:01:51.862 --> 01:01:52.643 [SPEAKER_00]: Fuck up your back. 01:01:53.392 --> 01:01:55.335 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, those those jobs were a little bigger. 01:01:55.375 --> 01:01:58.940 [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't take you on those ones That sounds fun. 01:01:59.261 --> 01:02:00.142 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know. 01:02:00.162 --> 01:02:00.763 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 01:02:00.783 --> 01:02:01.644 [SPEAKER_00]: It kind of sounds fun. 01:02:01.984 --> 01:02:02.325 [SPEAKER_00]: It's fun. 01:02:02.465 --> 01:02:02.966 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm salt. 01:02:03.086 --> 01:02:07.692 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm salt on the idea It sounds we more interesting than kayaking because kayaking is like 01:02:08.426 --> 01:02:09.367 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't even fly water. 01:02:09.687 --> 01:02:10.867 [SPEAKER_01]: Fly water is for the birds. 01:02:11.528 --> 01:02:12.488 [SPEAKER_01]: Gotta have some great. 01:02:13.409 --> 01:02:14.369 [SPEAKER_00]: I really depends. 01:02:14.430 --> 01:02:18.812 [SPEAKER_00]: No, when we were on the last track, it's like, yeah, 19 kilometers. 01:02:18.952 --> 01:02:21.594 [SPEAKER_00]: And it should take you like six hours to complete it. 01:02:21.614 --> 01:02:23.135 [SPEAKER_00]: Like five to six hours. 01:02:23.775 --> 01:02:26.897 [SPEAKER_00]: And like at our three, you're like, I'm done. 01:02:27.117 --> 01:02:28.578 [SPEAKER_00]: It could be, it could be done. 01:02:28.678 --> 01:02:34.141 [SPEAKER_00]: I would be happy if it is, would be over, you know, it's, it wouldn't be mad because it's more of the same. 01:02:34.681 --> 01:02:34.881 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 01:02:36.482 --> 01:02:41.383 [SPEAKER_03]: Once you're used to white butter kayaking, you don't want to go flat water or sea kayaking. 01:02:41.603 --> 01:02:41.823 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 01:02:42.643 --> 01:02:43.243 [SPEAKER_03]: Funny story. 01:02:43.343 --> 01:02:51.365 [SPEAKER_03]: I was kayaking, so white butter kayaking for 10 years and then about a sea kayak for an evening run under a local lake. 01:02:51.845 --> 01:02:54.846 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to guess how many times I took out the boat for a ride? 01:02:56.266 --> 01:02:56.386 [SPEAKER_03]: Once. 01:02:59.328 --> 01:03:05.154 [SPEAKER_03]: I bought it at a GF key as it's a GF car, fireglass, kayak, super awesome. 01:03:05.495 --> 01:03:06.316 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, thank you. 01:03:06.696 --> 01:03:07.037 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:03:07.257 --> 01:03:10.461 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, fans, fans about it took it out for a ride once. 01:03:10.941 --> 01:03:13.905 [SPEAKER_03]: I thought, well, that's fast, but kind of boring on a lake. 01:03:15.596 --> 01:03:16.397 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm with you man. 01:03:16.437 --> 01:03:18.359 [SPEAKER_01]: I've I've always been a gravity sports guy. 01:03:18.379 --> 01:03:24.866 [SPEAKER_01]: I like to go downhill But I like gravity to do the work, you know, ski, white water kayak just like gravity do the work. 01:03:24.987 --> 01:03:34.337 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah Yeah, very efficient and you maximize the fun and minimize the physical boarding ship that you have just, you know, you have to True, true 01:03:34.657 --> 01:03:37.540 [SPEAKER_01]: The one time I get into some flat waters, I do enjoy canoe tripping. 01:03:37.560 --> 01:03:39.201 [SPEAKER_01]: I love going out in the back of the canoe. 01:03:39.601 --> 01:03:42.804 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you can take the nice thing about a canoe is like you can take so much shit. 01:03:43.285 --> 01:03:47.408 [SPEAKER_01]: You can bring your stove, you can bring your comfy chair, you know, and you can get way out in the back country. 01:03:47.448 --> 01:03:48.609 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is just super fun. 01:03:48.669 --> 01:03:48.849 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:03:49.150 --> 01:03:50.631 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why I bought a canoe this year. 01:03:51.432 --> 01:03:53.353 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm falling new to falling new to that, right? 01:03:54.174 --> 01:03:54.834 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I do. 01:03:55.094 --> 01:03:56.035 [SPEAKER_01]: I need to get a new canoe. 01:03:56.055 --> 01:03:57.355 [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a couple little old towns. 01:03:57.375 --> 01:04:00.597 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually just wrecked about in a canoe race earlier this spring. 01:04:00.837 --> 01:04:04.478 [SPEAKER_01]: I pinned and wrapped it in the middle of this big wrap and destroyed the boat. 01:04:04.598 --> 01:04:04.898 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 01:04:05.118 --> 01:04:05.539 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god. 01:04:05.799 --> 01:04:10.761 [SPEAKER_00]: I, you, you take your canoe on like some, you know, some interesting waters. 01:04:10.921 --> 01:04:12.521 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I never expected from it. 01:04:12.561 --> 01:04:16.563 [SPEAKER_01]: My buddy runs a canoe race up in Millenock at me and called the Millenock extreme. 01:04:17.302 --> 01:04:20.487 [SPEAKER_01]: because it's on millenocked stream, which we kind of dubbed the extremes. 01:04:21.068 --> 01:04:27.618 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like a pretty full on-class three-rapid, full of boulders and stuff for like a half a mile. 01:04:27.839 --> 01:04:29.441 [SPEAKER_01]: And in a canoe, that's rowdy. 01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:33.102 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of carnage of that race every year. 01:04:33.162 --> 01:04:55.161 [SPEAKER_01]: It's it's pretty exciting I never thought that I usually I used to I would always solo it which is a lot of fun and like I've never had issues getting through that rapid solo in a canoe this year I had the genius idea of having my buddy sitting in the in the bow seat and it didn't didn't go well but he survived oh yeah everybody survived 01:04:58.308 --> 01:05:01.550 [SPEAKER_03]: But doing white water in a canoe is a whole different level. 01:05:02.231 --> 01:05:05.973 [SPEAKER_01]: Dude, the best thing about it is like class two feels like you're in class five. 01:05:06.574 --> 01:05:08.335 [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly, yeah. 01:05:08.355 --> 01:05:09.236 [SPEAKER_03]: But that blew my mind. 01:05:09.256 --> 01:05:11.398 [SPEAKER_03]: I was kayaking with two Germans. 01:05:11.958 --> 01:05:21.764 [SPEAKER_03]: guys and it was class three and they were struggling all the time with their canoe, which in the kayak is way easier to hell. 01:05:22.065 --> 01:05:32.832 [SPEAKER_03]: They were like, yeah, but they managed and they were even they were professionals, blew my mind how they can navigate like about that size through a river on that difficulty level. 01:05:33.052 --> 01:05:34.473 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's a challenge. 01:05:35.153 --> 01:05:36.474 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a whole different game for sure. 01:05:36.714 --> 01:05:39.296 [SPEAKER_01]: Those little, do you ever see any guys battling those little white water 01:05:41.146 --> 01:05:42.387 [SPEAKER_01]: No, those are pretty cool. 01:05:42.727 --> 01:05:43.968 [SPEAKER_03]: But what does short mean? 01:05:45.069 --> 01:05:45.429 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I don't know. 01:05:45.449 --> 01:05:49.872 [SPEAKER_01]: They're probably like, maybe like eight foot canoes, eight nine foot canoes, something like that. 01:05:50.272 --> 01:05:59.358 [SPEAKER_01]: They're similar to a kayak where you have like a saddle you sit on and you kind of like, you like harness your thighs in and everything and beat you can actually roll them. 01:05:59.418 --> 01:06:01.819 [SPEAKER_01]: Guys can, guys can roll them just like you don't know a kayak. 01:06:01.839 --> 01:06:02.580 [SPEAKER_01]: They're pretty wild. 01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:04.601 [SPEAKER_03]: I've never seen anything like that. 01:06:04.621 --> 01:06:05.121 [SPEAKER_03]: They're cool. 01:06:05.522 --> 01:06:05.662 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 01:06:06.102 --> 01:06:07.183 [SPEAKER_03]: So bite water talk. 01:06:08.189 --> 01:06:09.710 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, why would it talk? 01:06:10.710 --> 01:06:12.290 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a bug, man, change my life. 01:06:12.570 --> 01:06:15.631 [SPEAKER_01]: I probably wouldn't be making knives today like I am if I hadn't got into paddle in. 01:06:16.252 --> 01:06:24.194 [SPEAKER_03]: But that's awesome because you've found a problem that needed a solution and do just offer the solution for like proper river knives. 01:06:24.574 --> 01:06:27.175 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's I think that's the best way to start the business actually. 01:06:27.395 --> 01:06:32.357 [SPEAKER_03]: If you figure out the problem, everyone has and you offer a solution for the problem, right? 01:06:32.797 --> 01:06:33.637 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I would agree. 01:06:33.968 --> 01:06:36.010 [SPEAKER_03]: Apple did the same thing with the smartphone, right? 01:06:36.130 --> 01:06:39.835 [SPEAKER_03]: So there was no proper smartphones around and Apple came out with the iPhone. 01:06:40.235 --> 01:06:42.618 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there were no smartphones. 01:06:42.698 --> 01:06:43.959 [SPEAKER_03]: That was just, come on. 01:06:44.159 --> 01:06:45.020 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 01:06:45.200 --> 01:06:47.163 [SPEAKER_03]: Not communicated or whatever you're talking about. 01:06:47.183 --> 01:06:48.224 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, come on, boy. 01:06:48.925 --> 01:06:49.165 [SPEAKER_00]: But. 01:06:49.837 --> 01:06:55.360 [SPEAKER_00]: but they had a perfect package and less and more they hated the buttons. 01:06:55.581 --> 01:06:56.381 [SPEAKER_00]: They hated the buttons. 01:06:56.481 --> 01:06:58.162 [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone was putting on the buttons. 01:06:58.682 --> 01:07:05.086 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, just a new perspective and Walker did not solve any problem for everybody. 01:07:05.126 --> 01:07:09.429 [SPEAKER_00]: He solved for a very specific niche, but in a very, very good and concise way. 01:07:09.929 --> 01:07:11.530 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is just fucking brilliant. 01:07:11.690 --> 01:07:12.030 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:07:12.371 --> 01:07:13.792 [SPEAKER_00]: This is what everybody should do. 01:07:13.892 --> 01:07:16.013 [SPEAKER_03]: That's the best way to start a business, I think. 01:07:16.734 --> 01:07:21.142 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I, you know, I might, my honey knife sheets wouldn't be the caliber that they are today. 01:07:21.182 --> 01:07:26.953 [SPEAKER_01]: If I hadn't been forced to figure out how to build a sheath the way that I did for the river application too. 01:07:27.013 --> 01:07:27.154 [SPEAKER_01]: So. 01:07:27.943 --> 01:07:30.145 [SPEAKER_01]: the whole thing translated really well into what I'm doing. 01:07:30.406 --> 01:07:33.169 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and like solving specific problems. 01:07:33.329 --> 01:07:39.515 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like somebody would say having compound grinds on the kitchen knife, they are solving also a very specific problem. 01:07:41.458 --> 01:07:43.219 [SPEAKER_00]: Guys, do you want to play? 01:07:43.840 --> 01:07:44.941 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to play a game? 01:07:44.961 --> 01:07:46.343 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to play a game? 01:07:46.443 --> 01:07:47.063 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do it. 01:07:48.240 --> 01:07:54.813 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of you would say that this is an elite, their bits are best came, huh? 01:07:55.314 --> 01:07:56.777 [SPEAKER_03]: It meant it by calling. 01:07:57.177 --> 01:07:58.219 [SPEAKER_00]: It meant it by calling. 01:07:58.320 --> 01:07:59.442 [SPEAKER_00]: I heard that whole... 01:08:00.727 --> 01:08:26.198 [SPEAKER_00]: heard that hustle and grind is a little bit salty about that but I took their leftovers apparently I did not knew that apparently and then me made it into something something I don't know how it goes just I'm okay don't judge me so this game is super easy walker I you are a listener of the show you have heard it but for the listeners who haven't heard it I basically list off two things without any explanation and you have quick 01:08:27.044 --> 01:08:32.366 [SPEAKER_00]: Quickly pick one of them, and Jan, we just continue through the list, and maybe then come back and talk about it. 01:08:33.206 --> 01:08:33.806 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, do it. 01:08:34.466 --> 01:08:34.766 [SPEAKER_00]: Got it. 01:08:35.146 --> 01:08:37.947 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's start carbon or stainless. 01:08:38.247 --> 01:08:38.748 [SPEAKER_00]: Stainless. 01:08:39.608 --> 01:08:40.068 [SPEAKER_00]: Easy peasy. 01:08:40.268 --> 01:08:42.369 [SPEAKER_00]: Stainlessness or edge retention. 01:08:43.129 --> 01:08:43.789 [SPEAKER_01]: Stainlessness. 01:08:44.949 --> 01:08:45.730 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, interesting. 01:08:45.830 --> 01:08:46.750 [SPEAKER_00]: My cart or G10. 01:08:47.010 --> 01:08:47.690 [SPEAKER_00]: This is easy. 01:08:48.530 --> 01:08:49.291 [SPEAKER_00]: Easy peasy. 01:08:49.411 --> 01:08:50.431 [SPEAKER_00]: Next one is also easy. 01:08:58.152 --> 01:09:00.193 [SPEAKER_00]: That hand-sided or belt finish. 01:09:00.653 --> 01:09:01.393 [SPEAKER_00]: belt finish. 01:09:02.674 --> 01:09:04.574 [SPEAKER_00]: My man, reasons or plumps. 01:09:05.315 --> 01:09:05.455 [SPEAKER_00]: Oof. 01:09:06.935 --> 01:09:08.356 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like either, my amigo plumps. 01:09:09.476 --> 01:09:11.197 [SPEAKER_00]: My man, choosing the right team. 01:09:11.897 --> 01:09:12.737 [SPEAKER_00]: Evening or morning. 01:09:13.078 --> 01:09:13.778 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. 01:09:14.638 --> 01:09:15.899 [SPEAKER_00]: Evening or morning. 01:09:16.059 --> 01:09:16.419 [SPEAKER_00]: Evening. 01:09:16.999 --> 01:09:18.760 [SPEAKER_00]: All the right, all the right answers. 01:09:19.240 --> 01:09:19.840 [SPEAKER_00]: Tits are ass. 01:09:20.680 --> 01:09:21.381 [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, ass. 01:09:22.441 --> 01:09:22.921 [SPEAKER_00]: Ass man. 01:09:23.121 --> 01:09:23.801 [SPEAKER_00]: Another ass man. 01:09:23.962 --> 01:09:24.902 [SPEAKER_00]: New school, old school. 01:09:28.768 --> 01:09:29.268 [SPEAKER_01]: new school. 01:09:29.669 --> 01:09:35.593 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to ask the second one because it was so so stupid and funny the last time gambling or religion. 01:09:36.454 --> 01:09:37.534 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, gambling. 01:09:37.875 --> 01:09:40.316 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not again. 01:09:40.877 --> 01:09:43.078 [SPEAKER_00]: Never hunt again or never sell an 01:09:59.042 --> 01:09:59.262 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. 01:10:00.003 --> 01:10:03.127 [SPEAKER_00]: Never again listen to music or never again listen to podcasts. 01:10:03.367 --> 01:10:09.254 [SPEAKER_00]: Music, a music, a high carbon podcast or hustle and grind. 01:10:10.155 --> 01:10:13.078 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, ho ho ho, hustle and grind. 01:10:14.170 --> 01:10:30.796 [SPEAKER_00]: Motherfucker, we have one left by our previous guest, Ryan Kokli for on Kokli Knife Company, Stake Orips, Stake, Ma-Man, Ma-Man, Ma-Man. 01:10:31.537 --> 01:10:34.278 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, maybe we can go through a little bit, but that does for good. 01:10:34.338 --> 01:10:36.419 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I'm very interesting. 01:10:36.759 --> 01:10:41.021 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm very interesting, you know, carbon on stainless, I guess that this obvious. 01:10:41.662 --> 01:10:44.703 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I'm a carbonized, you know, that's, I've got to have it. 01:10:45.963 --> 01:10:49.765 [SPEAKER_00]: Updope, though the next one, stainless or edge retention. 01:10:50.746 --> 01:10:59.189 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, interesting, for my hunting eyes, edge retention all day, but for the river knife, I mean, if it's got, if you're showing rust, that's like the end all be all. 01:10:59.269 --> 01:11:00.590 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's the first thing people notice. 01:11:01.762 --> 01:11:02.523 [SPEAKER_01]: I had to go with that. 01:11:03.963 --> 01:11:05.284 [SPEAKER_00]: Big brain, smart move. 01:11:05.985 --> 01:11:11.148 [SPEAKER_00]: I have one really interesting one, which is hand-sanded or built finish. 01:11:11.488 --> 01:11:13.550 [SPEAKER_00]: And I have a follow-up question. 01:11:14.650 --> 01:11:16.151 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever hand-sanded it to life? 01:11:17.332 --> 01:11:19.093 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think I did like two or three times. 01:11:19.153 --> 01:11:20.434 [SPEAKER_01]: I decided I never did it again. 01:11:20.454 --> 01:11:21.595 [SPEAKER_01]: It's smart. 01:11:21.635 --> 01:11:22.115 [SPEAKER_01]: It's smart. 01:11:22.175 --> 01:11:23.576 [SPEAKER_01]: It's smart. 01:11:23.696 --> 01:11:25.618 [SPEAKER_01]: It's smart. 01:11:25.638 --> 01:11:26.398 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'll bet you. 01:11:27.519 --> 01:11:30.121 [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't see why people put themselves through it. 01:11:31.012 --> 01:11:31.612 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, it's terrible. 01:11:31.812 --> 01:11:36.434 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just why for what I know I felt finished and then I go straight to the Tumblr. 01:11:36.554 --> 01:11:38.195 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, who why can't sand? 01:11:39.716 --> 01:11:40.696 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly. 01:11:40.916 --> 01:11:44.218 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and to our Tumblr finishes pretty great. 01:11:45.118 --> 01:11:46.118 [SPEAKER_00]: You got the pretty stellar. 01:11:46.599 --> 01:11:53.101 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it that was kind of an accident too, because I forgot that I had a knife in the Tumblr and ran overnight when I pulled it out the next morning. 01:11:53.141 --> 01:11:54.342 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, holy shit. 01:11:54.362 --> 01:11:54.942 [SPEAKER_01]: That looks good. 01:11:55.832 --> 01:12:00.993 [SPEAKER_01]: So I tell them, because I just have the cheap harbour freight, vibratory, you know, the cheapo deal. 01:12:01.994 --> 01:12:05.975 [SPEAKER_01]: So I run it for a 12 hour cycle overnight, while I'm not in the shop, and they look awesome in the morning. 01:12:06.935 --> 01:12:14.117 [SPEAKER_01]: I typically acid-edged before I tumble too, which I find helps take a little bit of that, you know, the grind lines and stuff out as well. 01:12:15.357 --> 01:12:17.538 [SPEAKER_01]: And the combination just results in a really nice finish. 01:12:18.710 --> 01:12:20.931 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, really stellar. 01:12:20.951 --> 01:12:25.872 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's kind of you get this really fine kind of finish, right? 01:12:25.892 --> 01:12:32.033 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it looks like kind of almost like a subtle shading on the night, which is a total great, you know, being in the form of color. 01:12:32.893 --> 01:12:33.634 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 100%. 01:12:35.174 --> 01:12:35.774 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know. 01:12:35.814 --> 01:12:36.654 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't say anything. 01:12:36.714 --> 01:12:37.675 [SPEAKER_01]: That's just crazy dude. 01:12:37.695 --> 01:12:38.975 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why you do it. 01:12:39.855 --> 01:12:40.435 [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine. 01:12:40.695 --> 01:12:46.677 [SPEAKER_01]: I just like I have such a good idea too that like when I handstand, you know, like, and I can't get the lines all perfectly straight, like it drives me nuts. 01:12:48.418 --> 01:12:50.861 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, and you are there for hours. 01:12:51.141 --> 01:12:57.687 [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to my world Mr. Warkin' Eyes. 01:12:57.727 --> 01:12:59.529 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Paul, you tumble. 01:12:59.549 --> 01:13:00.510 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you sandblast first? 01:13:01.972 --> 01:13:02.572 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't tumble. 01:13:02.592 --> 01:13:03.233 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't tumble. 01:13:03.253 --> 01:13:03.694 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't tumble. 01:13:03.714 --> 01:13:04.174 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't tumble. 01:13:04.234 --> 01:13:05.055 [SPEAKER_01]: You just sandblast? 01:13:06.100 --> 01:13:06.820 [SPEAKER_00]: for B-blast. 01:13:07.261 --> 01:13:18.686 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, yeah, it's actually a two-stage process where I do the belt finish, and then I go with the luminous oxide, and they create a rough finish on top. 01:13:18.786 --> 01:13:21.648 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I do beatblasting to even out the surface. 01:13:22.228 --> 01:13:26.590 [SPEAKER_00]: And after that, there was a couple of episodes previously. 01:13:26.630 --> 01:13:28.471 [SPEAKER_00]: Where I talked about the passivation process. 01:13:28.511 --> 01:13:31.393 [SPEAKER_00]: Where I dunk my knives into like two solutions. 01:13:32.414 --> 01:13:40.289 [SPEAKER_00]: to restore the Chromium Moxite layer on top without because with Sandblast thank you include 01:13:41.507 --> 01:13:55.353 [SPEAKER_00]: You add contaminants, and they hurt the chromium oxide layer, and you lose actual stainlessness, and the preservation process actually helps you restore the, like, up to the top, you know. 01:13:55.373 --> 01:13:59.775 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to ask you about that, because is that, is that primarily because of the blasting introducing? 01:14:00.315 --> 01:14:04.657 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I know, I mean, passivation occurs just naturally over time, right? 01:14:05.597 --> 01:14:08.378 [SPEAKER_00]: Unless you have contaminants on top of the night, 01:14:10.219 --> 01:14:14.062 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and disrupting the oxide layer farming. 01:14:14.162 --> 01:14:17.425 [SPEAKER_00]: So when you are sound-lasting, it's high pressure, small particles. 01:14:17.605 --> 01:14:28.413 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you are most of us are reusing the same media, even if you are just, you have your knives heated and you think they are the most stainless, as they could be, right? 01:14:28.814 --> 01:14:32.617 [SPEAKER_00]: But they still have this oxide layer with the, like, funky colors, right? 01:14:33.037 --> 01:14:34.859 [SPEAKER_00]: And these actually contain, like, 01:14:36.897 --> 01:14:38.578 [SPEAKER_00]: not steal like iron, right? 01:14:38.898 --> 01:14:47.000 [SPEAKER_00]: And these small particles could again be recycled and blasted onto the surface, which induces and introduces contaminants. 01:14:47.480 --> 01:15:01.904 [SPEAKER_00]: So basically what I'm doing is like two stage through a one with alkaline solution just to strip out all the oils, and then in like acidic bath, which just attacks the iron that is on top and remove those particles and everything done in a ultrasonic cleaner. 01:15:01.944 --> 01:15:03.705 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's like you should just hand say I'm a man. 01:15:04.702 --> 01:15:06.443 [SPEAKER_00]: Fuck, I don't have to do anything. 01:15:06.683 --> 01:15:09.245 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, bro, bro, you know me. 01:15:09.505 --> 01:15:29.017 [SPEAKER_00]: I have like two big baskets that like place us to hold my knives and I just plop them in, you know, and just leave them, and I can do and work on other stuff, and the surface finish that you get after the acid bath is like squeaky clean, you know, it's like tough and it's just really good and before. 01:15:29.857 --> 01:15:30.958 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you finish this look really good. 01:15:31.318 --> 01:15:32.399 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never tried to be blasting. 01:15:32.419 --> 01:15:38.462 [SPEAKER_01]: I was always worried that it would introduce too much texture in my my river knives that would, you know, make them more prone to corrosion. 01:15:39.617 --> 01:15:42.520 [SPEAKER_00]: they could be, they could be, but then you have to do deposition. 01:15:42.680 --> 01:15:47.183 [SPEAKER_00]: And even doing beat blasting, it can also induce, you know, contamination. 01:15:47.884 --> 01:15:52.347 [SPEAKER_00]: But like the two stages are not accidental. 01:15:52.688 --> 01:15:55.350 [SPEAKER_00]: Like roughing up the surface with aluminum oxide. 01:15:55.410 --> 01:15:57.171 [SPEAKER_00]: It kind of makes it uniform. 01:15:57.291 --> 01:15:58.872 [SPEAKER_00]: I love the uniform look. 01:15:59.093 --> 01:16:03.056 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to buy a surface grinder to have a uniform surface finish. 01:16:03.256 --> 01:16:04.617 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they are the other, you just, you know. 01:16:05.437 --> 01:16:29.248 [SPEAKER_00]: blasted, and then when you go back and do the bead blasting, it kind of makes it glossy and not as rough to the touch, and you still have the uniform texture, the nice look, and also the glossiness, so it kind of works, you know, and the secondary blasting with the beads is extremely quick, because you only want the surface to change, and it's so obvious in the sound blasting cabinet. 01:16:29.468 --> 01:16:32.449 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it sucks man sucks as to sandblast. 01:16:32.509 --> 01:16:36.570 [SPEAKER_00]: It's so fun to sandblast one thing because Ooh it changes, you know. 01:16:37.010 --> 01:16:37.690 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's so nice. 01:16:37.770 --> 01:16:42.751 [SPEAKER_00]: Look at the nice finish, but then you have to stand there for hours Then you have to sandblasting knife after knife after knife. 01:16:43.791 --> 01:16:45.832 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it gets all with the second knife. 01:16:46.172 --> 01:16:58.755 [SPEAKER_01]: It gets all Would not recommend, but I can say I've been wanting to get a plastic cabinet just to play around with it, but you know Then the straight into the time where process has been working so good for me that doesn't seem like I have any need to change yet 01:17:00.096 --> 01:17:00.816 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:17:00.936 --> 01:17:01.136 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:17:01.477 --> 01:17:01.657 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:17:01.777 --> 01:17:02.377 [SPEAKER_00]: It looks great. 01:17:03.078 --> 01:17:05.019 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you could blast the GTN. 01:17:05.279 --> 01:17:07.621 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it would add a lot about that too. 01:17:07.661 --> 01:17:07.901 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:17:07.921 --> 01:17:09.643 [SPEAKER_01]: It does add a lot of texture which would be cool. 01:17:10.944 --> 01:17:23.753 [SPEAKER_00]: But then the retention kind of changes because the GTN is more abrasive and entering the shitheads and the laner with you in different machine textures on my handle scales. 01:17:26.435 --> 01:17:33.684 [SPEAKER_00]: that top of pattern at this one, this one I love and I think you are doing top of patterns from a local kind of range. 01:17:33.925 --> 01:17:38.170 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so on the river knife handles that I have, that's the big low amount range, which is literally right behind me. 01:17:39.411 --> 01:17:44.238 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm working on a custom pro model for one of the hunting guys that carries my knife and 01:17:45.007 --> 01:17:48.410 [SPEAKER_01]: We're doing his favorite mountain that he likes to hunt on the, as the top of a pattern. 01:17:49.390 --> 01:17:50.131 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's so cool. 01:17:50.211 --> 01:17:52.393 [SPEAKER_00]: That's, yeah, this is extremely cool. 01:17:52.473 --> 01:17:57.416 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, that it kind of enables you to do the, all of the CNC kind of stuff. 01:17:57.656 --> 01:17:57.857 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:17:57.877 --> 01:18:01.019 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you, the machine is running, it's paying for itself. 01:18:01.059 --> 01:18:02.100 [SPEAKER_00]: And you are doing cool shit. 01:18:02.820 --> 01:18:09.165 [SPEAKER_00]: And because you are like, you are into the local scene and doing a topographic, like, 01:18:13.308 --> 01:18:14.569 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, it's niche. 01:18:14.649 --> 01:18:15.530 [SPEAKER_00]: It's extremely cool. 01:18:15.710 --> 01:18:16.851 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's cool. 01:18:17.131 --> 01:18:22.016 [SPEAKER_01]: The cool thing about this hunting when we're doing is I'm not going to tell anybody where the patterns from because it's like his spot. 01:18:22.736 --> 01:18:26.980 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'll be curious to see if anybody, you know, studies it long enough to pinpoint it. 01:18:29.200 --> 01:18:40.747 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we call that, you know, these kind of tongue and cheek things, you know, these small details where you can actually figure out it's not a pattern from anywhere on the internet, but it's an actual pattern. 01:18:41.468 --> 01:18:44.269 [SPEAKER_00]: These are really cool, really really cool. 01:18:44.650 --> 01:18:47.531 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, going back to this, 01:18:59.499 --> 01:19:00.500 [SPEAKER_01]: Who likes Raising? 01:19:00.800 --> 01:19:03.122 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 01:19:03.482 --> 01:19:03.782 [SPEAKER_01]: I do. 01:19:04.623 --> 01:19:05.383 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God. 01:19:05.443 --> 01:19:06.044 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a human. 01:19:06.164 --> 01:19:09.766 [SPEAKER_01]: I pulled up like nasty little grape thing. 01:19:12.168 --> 01:19:12.849 [SPEAKER_00]: This is disgusting. 01:19:12.949 --> 01:19:13.229 [SPEAKER_00]: It's dead. 01:19:13.289 --> 01:19:14.230 [SPEAKER_00]: It's dead. 01:19:14.430 --> 01:19:15.811 [SPEAKER_01]: He ever had like a wet poison. 01:19:15.831 --> 01:19:16.151 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember. 01:19:16.171 --> 01:19:17.132 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like deadible things. 01:19:19.474 --> 01:19:20.054 [SPEAKER_01]: Vets are easy. 01:19:20.074 --> 01:19:20.294 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:19:20.314 --> 01:19:22.316 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like people bring gorp on the river all the time. 01:19:22.356 --> 01:19:23.316 [SPEAKER_01]: You get a handful of gorp. 01:19:23.336 --> 01:19:24.777 [SPEAKER_01]: You got like a wet raisin in there. 01:19:24.817 --> 01:19:26.619 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, well, gross. 01:19:29.810 --> 01:19:30.570 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll but do like it. 01:19:31.351 --> 01:19:44.941 [SPEAKER_03]: No, but we have so much pastry over here and sweet some bakeries stuff with raisins inside so I'm biased But the sound see that's your opinion. 01:19:44.981 --> 01:19:47.102 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know raisins in sweet stuff. 01:19:47.142 --> 01:19:52.006 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like this weird chewy chunk in your pastry like I don't know 01:19:53.003 --> 01:20:06.695 [SPEAKER_00]: And every, all the proper Afro shrittle has raisins, disgusting, this is just terrible, the difference in texture is like, it's like a pimple inside of your pastry, is disgusting. 01:20:06.995 --> 01:20:09.377 [SPEAKER_03]: No, that makes it interesting, Pauli. 01:20:09.617 --> 01:20:12.360 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not just, which is squishy, Mama, Mama. 01:20:12.600 --> 01:20:15.762 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, you know, the better texture in your head. 01:20:15.923 --> 01:20:18.044 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want my food to be interesting. 01:20:18.585 --> 01:20:19.706 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want it to be interesting. 01:20:19.746 --> 01:20:20.807 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to be a Mama. 01:20:21.147 --> 01:20:22.928 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why you only potatoes, Pauli. 01:20:24.008 --> 01:20:27.550 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's why only eight, like, Labour castle. 01:20:27.770 --> 01:20:28.510 [SPEAKER_00]: I was lost. 01:20:28.810 --> 01:20:29.130 [SPEAKER_03]: See? 01:20:30.371 --> 01:20:30.851 [SPEAKER_03]: But he's so good. 01:20:31.471 --> 01:20:32.391 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's so good. 01:20:32.411 --> 01:20:33.612 [SPEAKER_00]: So I look. 01:20:34.332 --> 01:20:37.794 [SPEAKER_00]: Is the, is the high, is Labour castle is the pinnacle of Austrian cuisine? 01:20:38.114 --> 01:20:38.654 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll come in. 01:20:38.694 --> 01:20:39.034 [SPEAKER_03]: It's best. 01:20:39.114 --> 01:20:40.795 [SPEAKER_03]: Our phrase, Pauli, when you hear. 01:20:41.035 --> 01:20:43.956 [SPEAKER_00]: No, you, you, don't, please don't try. 01:20:43.996 --> 01:20:44.936 [SPEAKER_00]: Give me a try. 01:20:45.637 --> 01:20:46.197 [SPEAKER_03]: That's okay. 01:20:47.057 --> 01:20:47.297 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 01:20:47.517 --> 01:20:47.878 [SPEAKER_00]: One try. 01:20:48.058 --> 01:20:48.318 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 01:20:49.387 --> 01:20:52.108 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, it will be hard to talk me into the next time. 01:20:52.148 --> 01:20:54.409 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to tell you. 01:20:56.170 --> 01:20:56.990 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 01:20:57.150 --> 01:21:00.591 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll serve you some stuff and you're not going to know when it ends. 01:21:01.211 --> 01:21:04.553 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, to be honest, I'm a little bit scared to come over to your place. 01:21:04.573 --> 01:21:06.153 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it. 01:21:06.173 --> 01:21:06.613 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see. 01:21:06.854 --> 01:21:07.314 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see. 01:21:10.900 --> 01:21:14.081 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, evening or morning evening my man. 01:21:14.481 --> 01:21:15.341 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hello to you guys. 01:21:15.361 --> 01:21:23.764 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know I'm the kind of guy that'll get going in the shop and I'll be out there until 11 o'clock midnight and then I'd like to take my time in the morning. 01:21:24.824 --> 01:21:25.164 [SPEAKER_01]: In the morning. 01:21:25.464 --> 01:21:33.127 [SPEAKER_01]: I also I do a lot of like film editing in my other world and I love one like the world goes to bed and I can just crush editing until two or three in the morning. 01:21:34.306 --> 01:21:43.689 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and by the way, how it is balancing your, you are not full time, you are part time and balancing running a company and doing like freelance job is a difficult. 01:21:44.029 --> 01:21:59.634 [SPEAKER_01]: It can be a times, but I mean, the two, the reason I think that I've been able to find some success in the night thing is that I do have the time to do it, you know, the freelance work can be so sporadic at times that I'll have, you know, a week here a week there where I'm just home and I'm the kind of guy that's got to stay busy. 01:22:00.565 --> 01:22:04.228 [SPEAKER_01]: being able to fill those voids in that schedule with this work has worked out really great. 01:22:05.369 --> 01:22:09.092 [SPEAKER_01]: And there, you know, there's they're starting to compete with each other for sure. 01:22:09.172 --> 01:22:10.793 [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll see what happens in the next year or two. 01:22:12.334 --> 01:22:16.497 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet you have to, you know, sometimes you have to set the deadline. 01:22:17.158 --> 01:22:18.399 [SPEAKER_00]: No, and it's coming. 01:22:18.619 --> 01:22:18.919 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:22:18.939 --> 01:22:20.000 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I like the numbers. 01:22:20.040 --> 01:22:23.523 [SPEAKER_01]: Just like to let this thing kind of happen as it's happening and we'll see where it goes. 01:22:24.463 --> 01:22:25.223 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 01:22:26.004 --> 01:22:30.825 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's like on the river, you know, it's getting you in good. 01:22:30.905 --> 01:22:37.788 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm fortunate that in the freelance world, the most of the clients that I have are pretty, they're pretty repeat the work is going to be there. 01:22:37.868 --> 01:22:41.229 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't have to spend a lot of time like looking for work in that industry. 01:22:42.969 --> 01:22:45.951 [SPEAKER_01]: So I do, I have a lot of time to work on the nice stuff, but I'm a homebody too, man. 01:22:45.971 --> 01:22:47.891 [SPEAKER_01]: I like to, I like to stay here. 01:22:47.911 --> 01:22:48.711 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like to travel. 01:22:48.852 --> 01:22:50.252 [SPEAKER_01]: And I got to travel a lot for that work. 01:22:50.312 --> 01:22:52.773 [SPEAKER_01]: So the more time I can spend in the shop, the better. 01:22:54.043 --> 01:23:07.708 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it the main thing like a mean that does do that I mean I live in the woods Man you can't even see my neighbors, you know like my hardware store is also my grocery store You know, it's just I like small town. 01:23:07.728 --> 01:23:10.889 [SPEAKER_01]: I like the woods when I'm not here working on stuff Or I'm not at work. 01:23:10.929 --> 01:23:16.350 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm I'm fishing in a remote pond with nobody else around or I'm I'm out hunting somewhere You know away from people. 01:23:16.430 --> 01:23:18.071 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just that's my jam 01:23:19.357 --> 01:23:20.437 [SPEAKER_00]: No, not big city life. 01:23:20.777 --> 01:23:21.498 [SPEAKER_00]: No big city life. 01:23:21.878 --> 01:23:23.118 [SPEAKER_01]: No, can't do the big city. 01:23:23.858 --> 01:23:25.058 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, though, though. 01:23:25.418 --> 01:23:29.659 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, did I, did I chose it correctly between new school and old school? 01:23:30.320 --> 01:23:31.260 [SPEAKER_00]: You chose new school? 01:23:31.680 --> 01:23:40.202 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so, you know, I do a lot of things old school, but, you know, I hunt and all wall, I'm pretty old school in the woods, but when it comes to knife making, I think is where my head was at. 01:23:41.075 --> 01:23:56.350 [SPEAKER_01]: Man, I learned how to use CNC machines, learn how to use this technology, put all this new school stuff to work because it gives people like us working out of a shed, the ability to be competitive in a bigger industry against guys that are leagues ahead of us in equipment. 01:23:56.390 --> 01:23:59.493 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't see any reason not to embrace the new school. 01:24:00.494 --> 01:24:04.879 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you bought your very first CNC, I guess it was for a knife-making, right? 01:24:05.519 --> 01:24:07.281 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I bought it for sheaths. 01:24:07.361 --> 01:24:08.622 [SPEAKER_01]: That was my original intention. 01:24:08.722 --> 01:24:14.828 [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't even planning to ever make handles with it Until I started playing around and it was like, oh, this thing will cut G10. 01:24:15.308 --> 01:24:25.737 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see what we can do now But I bought it because I wanted to find a way to make a better sheath because You know, like I said, I was molding with a foam foam press for my river and I sheaths originally and 01:24:26.658 --> 01:24:41.267 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a pain in the butt to get them the way you want them and to have it be able to dial things in and have it function at the level I wanted to function at and at the same time, I mean, you know, when you start thinking about, okay, how can I scale this, you know, you could only make so many sheets at a time when you're doing everything by hand. 01:24:41.327 --> 01:24:49.112 [SPEAKER_01]: So my, that was, that was my primary goal when I bought it was to improve my sheet making and then, you know, everything else evolved from there. 01:24:51.138 --> 01:24:56.360 [SPEAKER_00]: And before buying it, did you have any past experience in 3D modeling and non-nodging? 01:24:56.700 --> 01:24:56.901 [SPEAKER_01]: Nope. 01:24:58.161 --> 01:24:58.321 [SPEAKER_01]: Nope. 01:24:58.441 --> 01:24:59.802 [SPEAKER_01]: I had never used a CAD program. 01:24:59.822 --> 01:25:00.562 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know anything. 01:25:00.822 --> 01:25:04.123 [SPEAKER_01]: I just bought the machine and started figuring it out. 01:25:06.624 --> 01:25:07.865 [SPEAKER_00]: And was it that hard? 01:25:07.905 --> 01:25:08.925 [SPEAKER_00]: Was it intimidating? 01:25:09.606 --> 01:25:10.086 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so. 01:25:10.126 --> 01:25:12.707 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, unfortunately, I've been kind of a computer nerd my whole life. 01:25:12.827 --> 01:25:18.169 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, using the computer side of things was pretty comfortable and figuring out how to 01:25:18.734 --> 01:25:24.578 [SPEAKER_01]: I had already done a lot of like my own knife designing as far as like 2D profile and so like it had things water jet cut. 01:25:25.378 --> 01:25:27.480 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was having a buddy who's a skimaker. 01:25:27.540 --> 01:25:34.665 [SPEAKER_01]: He was cutting my handles on his CNC machine and he was just cutting the profiles and then I glue him on a hand shape. 01:25:34.705 --> 01:25:37.647 [SPEAKER_01]: So I already kind of had like a, you know, an idea of what could be done. 01:25:37.667 --> 01:25:42.990 [SPEAKER_01]: But once I figured out that I could start like 3D machining G10 scales on my 01:25:46.493 --> 01:25:47.134 [SPEAKER_01]: dish of trucks. 01:25:47.414 --> 01:25:47.554 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 01:25:47.574 --> 01:25:47.694 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:25:47.894 --> 01:25:48.074 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:25:48.094 --> 01:25:48.294 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:25:48.515 --> 01:25:48.715 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:25:49.395 --> 01:25:49.715 [SPEAKER_00]: It's great. 01:25:49.876 --> 01:25:53.939 [SPEAKER_00]: Especially when you can put on like full sheets like you do and just leave it. 01:25:54.539 --> 01:25:55.540 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, dude, it's awesome. 01:25:55.960 --> 01:25:57.101 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, my current set up. 01:25:57.141 --> 01:26:00.143 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll work with a 8 by 12 sheet at a time. 01:26:00.784 --> 01:26:02.245 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that pops out 10 scales. 01:26:02.265 --> 01:26:13.273 [SPEAKER_01]: So I get, you know, five nice worth of handle scales in I've actually done a bunch of refinements to my process in the last like two weeks and now I'm pumping out, you know, five knives worth of handle scales and under two hours. 01:26:14.445 --> 01:26:14.765 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow. 01:26:15.126 --> 01:26:15.786 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's quick. 01:26:16.086 --> 01:26:16.306 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:26:16.587 --> 01:26:16.947 [SPEAKER_00]: That's good. 01:26:17.807 --> 01:26:21.550 [SPEAKER_00]: And you are buying like the material is close to the nominal thickness. 01:26:21.610 --> 01:26:22.991 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that that. 01:26:23.251 --> 01:26:24.092 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's super close. 01:26:24.112 --> 01:26:25.793 [SPEAKER_01]: So I, you know, I kind of flat face first. 01:26:25.813 --> 01:26:27.014 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just take off a little bit. 01:26:27.074 --> 01:26:29.916 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it comes in and does the rest from there. 01:26:29.936 --> 01:26:31.197 [SPEAKER_01]: And I buy it in bulk. 01:26:31.217 --> 01:26:33.679 [SPEAKER_01]: So I get in the company that I buy it from in the U.S. 01:26:33.699 --> 01:26:37.822 [SPEAKER_01]: They they cut it to the 8 by 12 from their full sheets for me. 01:26:38.595 --> 01:26:45.022 [SPEAKER_01]: They'll cut it to whatever size you want so I just you know, I have them send me everything cutting it by 12 and it's all it shows up just ready to go right on the machine 01:26:46.093 --> 01:26:51.537 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, same with me, a kiss, is the cutting my G10 to my specific size. 01:26:51.697 --> 01:27:04.707 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've been in love doing bigger sheets and just because we don't have like an ATCE automatic tool changer, you have to come back and you know, sometimes changed at all. 01:27:05.048 --> 01:27:08.350 [SPEAKER_00]: So it really helps to have a longer cycle time with 100%. 01:27:08.410 --> 01:27:10.532 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would love to have an ATCE. 01:27:11.032 --> 01:27:12.213 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, man. 01:27:12.233 --> 01:27:13.153 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's the dream. 01:27:13.193 --> 01:27:19.716 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to get a you know a proper mill with an ATC and coolant and all the things Soon yeah, soon. 01:27:20.276 --> 01:27:21.417 [SPEAKER_00]: I got to go the shop first. 01:27:22.037 --> 01:27:36.444 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's same here same here I want to pick machine, but I don't have this base or no the ceiling height or you have to have proper floors if you're by like three times six Don't machine yeah I've got the same I got to go the shop. 01:27:36.464 --> 01:27:38.185 [SPEAKER_01]: That's like high on the list of things to do 01:27:42.672 --> 01:27:45.973 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, is it do you have a plant for it? 01:27:46.073 --> 01:27:49.874 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have the sizing or is it just rough ideas in my head right now? 01:27:49.894 --> 01:27:56.116 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm thinking like a 30 by 60, you know, poor pads steel building spray foam insulated nice and easy get it done. 01:27:57.676 --> 01:28:00.637 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I space to work in in the backyard. 01:28:01.157 --> 01:28:01.377 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. 01:28:02.658 --> 01:28:03.318 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:28:03.898 --> 01:28:18.203 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess because you are doing like freelance, it is, you are already, you know, familiar with working from home and, you know, don't going to, not going to locations and just, you know, kind of having this balance of your personal life and work life. 01:28:18.684 --> 01:28:20.484 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I could probably be better at it. 01:28:20.524 --> 01:28:24.285 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's one of those things where, you know, I mean, shops right there. 01:28:24.365 --> 01:28:31.108 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's nice because you can go out and work on stuff whenever you want, but it can be a problem too when you, you know, but out here for a while. 01:28:33.317 --> 01:28:35.499 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, oh, I just go for like 15 minutes. 01:28:35.599 --> 01:28:37.440 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, no, no, I'm running this job. 01:28:37.960 --> 01:28:39.802 [SPEAKER_00]: It's two hours of machining. 01:28:39.902 --> 01:28:40.302 [SPEAKER_00]: It's fine. 01:28:40.362 --> 01:28:49.109 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you see it's like 11 at night and like, oh, yeah, my current problem is that all my CNC, my laser, all that stuff is in the basement in my house. 01:28:49.689 --> 01:28:53.692 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I've got an old, it's basically just an old shed, you know, the garage door in the front of it. 01:28:54.701 --> 01:29:02.011 [SPEAKER_01]: where the grinders are where I do all my dirty work and so I don't even want to know what the miles I've walked just back and forth between the two buildings is. 01:29:02.052 --> 01:29:09.603 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean it's certainly not leaner efficient but I really need to get into a one space where everything's laid out and I can be a lot more efficient about things. 01:29:10.813 --> 01:29:11.033 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:29:11.374 --> 01:29:11.754 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:29:11.934 --> 01:29:26.766 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's, you know, but if you like before you are like grinding their shaping the handle scales, a lot of dust, you cannot have your like, you know, your clean area there without totally changing up. 01:29:27.187 --> 01:29:36.435 [SPEAKER_01]: When I first got the CNC, I had, so I have like a dust collection unit set up to and everything, but it was just in my basement, and I remember one time the bag on the dust collector blew off. 01:29:37.696 --> 01:29:59.555 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, she ten does all through the basement of the house, which is a problem and I was in there with the vacuum on reverse basically just blowing it up into the air off the walls and everything So it would get sucked out of the door by the fans I set up and I was in nightmares so now I have like I took one half of the basement And I plasticed it all off and I've got you know fans in the window and the dust collector and everything so now if we have it's at least contained, but it's still in the house 01:30:00.659 --> 01:30:01.841 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a solution. 01:30:01.901 --> 01:30:02.883 [SPEAKER_00]: Temporary solution. 01:30:03.003 --> 01:30:07.672 [SPEAKER_00]: It works for now, when you get a big shop, Dennis will be great. 01:30:08.092 --> 01:30:10.998 [SPEAKER_00]: Scum gambling or religion. 01:30:12.193 --> 01:30:13.553 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm like man, gambling. 01:30:13.573 --> 01:30:14.274 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go. 01:30:15.274 --> 01:30:16.374 [SPEAKER_01]: That's like a good gamble. 01:30:17.194 --> 01:30:18.195 [SPEAKER_01]: It might be a problem. 01:30:19.895 --> 01:30:21.756 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you watch the football? 01:30:22.276 --> 01:30:23.996 [SPEAKER_00]: And did you, you know, gambling? 01:30:24.036 --> 01:30:25.056 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what is that soccer? 01:30:25.076 --> 01:30:26.257 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that what they called over here? 01:30:26.597 --> 01:30:28.817 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure. 01:30:28.937 --> 01:30:31.718 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never, I've never been a big soccer guy to be honest with you. 01:30:32.318 --> 01:30:34.279 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never been a big sports guy in general. 01:30:34.299 --> 01:30:38.420 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I'm watching other people have fun and it's just never really appealed to me. 01:30:40.625 --> 01:30:44.687 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I like to go do things, just makes sense. 01:30:45.027 --> 01:30:47.048 [SPEAKER_00]: It's so obvious, I never thought about it like that. 01:30:47.068 --> 01:30:49.949 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, other people having fun and getting bathed for it. 01:30:50.109 --> 01:30:52.010 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know. 01:30:52.050 --> 01:31:03.935 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I'm a very, I would call myself a very spiritual person, but I think today's, most of today's, I don't know what you call, a perception of religion is a little bit skewed from what it should be, I think. 01:31:05.115 --> 01:31:09.177 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, yeah, if you have somebody, it's like old school, but religious. 01:31:10.007 --> 01:31:22.715 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm more of like a, you know, it's been a lot of time in nature, I've had some moments and experiences, I think there's a lot more going on than we understand, but my connection is a lot more to the natural world than it is to, other things. 01:31:23.736 --> 01:31:25.136 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a slippery slope. 01:31:25.477 --> 01:31:29.759 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a slippery slope to killing your ego every second Saturday of the month. 01:31:29.839 --> 01:31:33.342 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it would be beautiful. 01:31:33.462 --> 01:31:35.323 [SPEAKER_00]: Never hunt again or never sell a knife. 01:31:36.358 --> 01:31:37.999 [SPEAKER_00]: hunting over the night making too. 01:31:38.039 --> 01:31:40.600 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's, you know, I'd find another way to make money. 01:31:40.640 --> 01:31:46.021 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's like, I'm hunting is, it's one of those things that I live for, you know. 01:31:46.081 --> 01:31:52.184 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, uh, I feel like it's a way that I connect to, to, to our, you know, our ancestors in a way. 01:31:52.224 --> 01:32:02.667 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that, uh, putting meat in the freezer that is harvested from a wild animal that's lived a happy life and hasn't been raised in some shitty farm somewhere is it's more important to 01:32:05.896 --> 01:32:18.340 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm, sounds great, sounds something primal and especially that you chose it and to set before that you became a hunter way later in your life, so it really left an impression. 01:32:18.740 --> 01:32:26.742 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, the way that I'll start it was I was working on a film project with some of these guys up in northern Maine that are big trackers and I followed 01:32:27.657 --> 01:32:41.702 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, just to get this guy Joe cruiser on the woods for about a week shooting a film of him tracking and it was my first introduction to hunting and tracking is like a pretty niche way to hunt to a lot of guys do it in northeast, but that's, you know, doesn't generally extend much further than that. 01:32:42.562 --> 01:32:50.465 [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, it just really, you know, it's, I was like, this is my backyard like why am I not doing this and I just didn't grow up in a hunting family and then grow up around it. 01:32:57.863 --> 01:32:59.023 [SPEAKER_01]: That part of it came naturally. 01:32:59.043 --> 01:33:10.127 [SPEAKER_01]: And then when I was like, man, I can, I can chase deer on the woods for a month and a half and just just be in the woods and walk for miles and try to learn what these animals are doing and try to figure out how to beat them on their own turf. 01:33:11.027 --> 01:33:16.028 [SPEAKER_00]: I got hooked and hooked good. 01:33:16.568 --> 01:33:23.090 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I did by December dude after walking 15 miles a day up and down 3,000 foot mountains up where we are by December. 01:33:23.130 --> 01:33:25.131 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like in the best shape of my life every year. 01:33:26.153 --> 01:33:27.416 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm, a lot of benefit. 01:33:27.697 --> 01:33:28.278 [SPEAKER_00]: Great fast. 01:33:28.619 --> 01:33:28.859 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:33:29.120 --> 01:33:34.591 [SPEAKER_00]: Spend time outside, good health, what not to love, what not love. 01:33:34.671 --> 01:33:37.197 [SPEAKER_00]: And you need to teach Ryan how to dress a dear. 01:33:37.660 --> 01:33:38.900 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we can make that happen. 01:33:39.201 --> 01:33:45.123 [SPEAKER_00]: He said has he can shoot at the end, but he does not know how to dress it So I Hell thank you the first act. 01:33:45.143 --> 01:33:55.287 [SPEAKER_01]: Just you know, I kind of got that intro to hunting and then I just got into it on my own before I kind of started making friends at on and stuff And I just watched a bunch of YouTube videos and the first time I did it in a woods. 01:33:55.347 --> 01:34:00.668 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I think this is how you do it Get the guts out take the meat home. 01:34:00.708 --> 01:34:01.829 [SPEAKER_01]: That's really all there is to it 01:34:03.333 --> 01:34:06.077 [SPEAKER_00]: bro, this sounds insane and crazy. 01:34:06.337 --> 01:34:08.680 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean here you have to learn how to do it. 01:34:08.841 --> 01:34:11.765 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like really regulated and you need past exams now. 01:34:11.785 --> 01:34:12.105 [SPEAKER_00]: Really? 01:34:12.185 --> 01:34:13.267 [SPEAKER_02]: And you're just going on YouTube. 01:34:14.508 --> 01:34:15.570 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I know how to do it. 01:34:16.071 --> 01:34:17.412 [SPEAKER_00]: This sounds crazy. 01:34:18.946 --> 01:34:20.587 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't over here. 01:34:20.647 --> 01:34:23.290 [SPEAKER_03]: It takes six months to get a hunting license. 01:34:23.330 --> 01:34:25.091 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, it was for six months. 01:34:25.131 --> 01:34:25.331 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 01:34:26.012 --> 01:34:33.578 [SPEAKER_01]: So in the, well, I don't know how it is in other states, but in Maine, you just have to have your 100 safety permit, which you do one time in your life. 01:34:34.179 --> 01:34:38.342 [SPEAKER_01]: Most people do it when they're like 12 in their dads, introduce them to hunting or whatever. 01:34:38.922 --> 01:34:41.805 [SPEAKER_01]: And it used to be that you would go take a class and it was like two days. 01:34:42.485 --> 01:34:45.908 [SPEAKER_01]: But during COVID, they moved all that to now, you can just do it online. 01:34:48.586 --> 01:34:50.269 [SPEAKER_01]: eight hours at a computer or something. 01:34:50.289 --> 01:34:51.651 [SPEAKER_01]: You can get your 100 safety license. 01:34:51.671 --> 01:34:53.934 [SPEAKER_01]: And once you have that, you're good for the rest of your life. 01:34:54.535 --> 01:34:55.076 [SPEAKER_00]: And all that. 01:34:55.957 --> 01:35:01.806 [SPEAKER_01]: All that really talks about is like, you know, don't point the gun at your friend when you're walking through the woods and, you know, that kind of stuff. 01:35:02.227 --> 01:35:03.469 [SPEAKER_03]: No, here it's six months. 01:35:03.959 --> 01:35:18.527 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, that's wild for you to maybe you have to know it you have to know all the animals you have to know all the trees and stuff so see that's like if you want to be a guide if you want to be a hunting guide in Maine in order in the state of Maine. 01:35:18.547 --> 01:35:28.213 [SPEAKER_01]: We have a really unique guide licensing program and so it applies for like white water to like when I became a raf guy I had to go through a you know a week long training course and then a big test for the state and all this stuff. 01:35:28.823 --> 01:35:30.906 [SPEAKER_01]: But to become a hunting guy in Maine, you have to sit down. 01:35:30.926 --> 01:35:33.289 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to study a lot for you to sit down with a warden. 01:35:33.829 --> 01:35:36.272 [SPEAKER_01]: They do a verbal test where you have to identify all kinds of things. 01:35:36.292 --> 01:35:39.336 [SPEAKER_01]: They do map and compass, situational stuff. 01:35:39.396 --> 01:35:42.060 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you have to take a written exam and pass it. 01:35:42.715 --> 01:35:55.404 [SPEAKER_01]: In order to accept any money to take people in the woods for anything, if you're going to go do a canoe trip or be a sea guy at guide or a recreational guide, take people camping or whatever it is, you have to have a guide license in the state of Maine, which requires a thorough testing process. 01:35:55.464 --> 01:36:01.948 [SPEAKER_01]: But to just be a participant as a normal person out doing whatever you can, it's super easy. 01:36:02.529 --> 01:36:09.633 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we call it's green graduation, because it's like a graduation exam. 01:36:09.794 --> 01:36:10.374 [SPEAKER_03]: You have to take. 01:36:11.367 --> 01:36:12.148 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's wow. 01:36:13.129 --> 01:36:16.172 [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds, I mean, I prefer the European way. 01:36:16.452 --> 01:36:18.615 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to know all the shit, you know, you are shooting animals. 01:36:18.975 --> 01:36:21.558 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you don't, there are certain times. 01:36:21.618 --> 01:36:23.940 [SPEAKER_00]: You cannot shoot one thing, there are certain times. 01:36:23.960 --> 01:36:25.081 [SPEAKER_00]: You can shoot another thing. 01:36:25.342 --> 01:36:33.170 [SPEAKER_01]: We have all that to do, but I mean, it's, you know, that's, you basically just told that it's up to you to understand a law and follow it otherwise you're screwed. 01:36:33.310 --> 01:36:33.450 [SPEAKER_01]: So, 01:36:35.467 --> 01:36:43.212 [SPEAKER_03]: it's on you but it's not just that poly it's not just that over here that you have to know when you can shoot what 01:36:44.267 --> 01:36:46.447 [SPEAKER_00]: and how to shoot that. 01:36:46.467 --> 01:36:53.849 [SPEAKER_03]: They show you some pieces of poop and they ask you what kind of animal this comes from. 01:36:54.669 --> 01:36:54.869 [SPEAKER_03]: Right? 01:36:54.969 --> 01:36:56.209 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's part of Jxm. 01:36:56.810 --> 01:36:59.750 [SPEAKER_03]: So there's like a try. 01:36:59.810 --> 01:37:00.430 [SPEAKER_03]: That is cool. 01:37:00.450 --> 01:37:01.271 [SPEAKER_01]: Those are all skills. 01:37:01.411 --> 01:37:08.992 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, those are all skills that we would consider like woodsmanship and that, you know, people pride themselves in learning, but it's much more of like a cultural thing than a like a 01:37:14.372 --> 01:37:18.194 [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if there is any instructor that brought his own poop? 01:37:18.894 --> 01:37:21.656 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not, you're human poop. 01:37:23.117 --> 01:37:24.917 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, that's all of you. 01:37:25.038 --> 01:37:30.800 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a bored night, it's my shit. 01:37:30.840 --> 01:37:34.482 [SPEAKER_03]: There's only animals shit on the tray, as far as I know. 01:37:34.502 --> 01:37:35.803 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 01:37:35.883 --> 01:37:38.985 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it would be a trick question, that would be a really good trick question. 01:37:39.005 --> 01:37:39.505 [SPEAKER_03]: It was, yeah. 01:37:40.505 --> 01:37:48.150 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like instructors, it's still warm, it must be hard to warm. 01:37:48.370 --> 01:38:04.659 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, let's keep a little and go to the biggest issue here, the biggest issue, high carbon or a hospital and grind, which shows just the divorce, the lesser podcasts from 01:38:05.820 --> 01:38:09.523 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, look, I just like to, I like to grind some gear. 01:38:09.603 --> 01:38:13.947 [SPEAKER_01]: So when I'm staring at the guys on the high carbon, I had to go with the other one. 01:38:15.688 --> 01:38:16.408 [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent. 01:38:16.469 --> 01:38:17.790 [SPEAKER_00]: Good good explanation. 01:38:17.810 --> 01:38:21.973 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you guys, but between the both of you, it's a two podcast that I listen to the most. 01:38:23.354 --> 01:38:23.634 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm. 01:38:23.954 --> 01:38:26.236 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you. 01:38:26.576 --> 01:38:30.418 [SPEAKER_03]: Even I would choose how to play grinds, so it's not going. 01:38:31.559 --> 01:38:39.003 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but because you have a grind just came out to Wisconsin and basically acted as slave labor for me for a whole weekend, so I got a throw on a little credit here. 01:38:39.843 --> 01:38:40.363 [SPEAKER_01]: Make sense. 01:38:40.984 --> 01:38:41.464 [SPEAKER_01]: Make sense. 01:38:41.824 --> 01:38:42.485 [SPEAKER_01]: Good great Ryan. 01:38:42.825 --> 01:38:43.445 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 01:38:43.485 --> 01:38:44.526 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a result. 01:38:45.506 --> 01:38:49.769 [SPEAKER_00]: You and and going to the Ryan's. 01:38:49.829 --> 01:38:51.410 [SPEAKER_00]: This are that stakeholders. 01:38:52.310 --> 01:39:17.595 [SPEAKER_00]: steak all day my guy come on all day is that he like that's not even a question right right yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and before the show I asked you to maybe come off with one of yours for submission for the list do you have one I got one all right stone sharpener belt nice nice that's a good Albert Albert what what would you choose well it's a 01:39:22.262 --> 01:39:23.203 [SPEAKER_03]: I think you got a pick one. 01:39:23.744 --> 01:39:24.445 [SPEAKER_00]: No explanation. 01:39:24.465 --> 01:39:25.486 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to pick one. 01:39:25.546 --> 01:39:25.946 [SPEAKER_00]: Pick one. 01:39:27.188 --> 01:39:27.408 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 01:39:28.129 --> 01:39:28.429 [SPEAKER_00]: Belt. 01:39:29.270 --> 01:39:32.634 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go. 01:39:32.774 --> 01:39:34.696 [SPEAKER_03]: You didn't expect that, right? 01:39:35.037 --> 01:39:35.257 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 01:39:35.617 --> 01:39:36.579 [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely. 01:39:36.679 --> 01:39:37.540 [SPEAKER_00]: Would you like to explain? 01:39:38.040 --> 01:39:44.163 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we do so much sharpening for other guys and I don't do stone sharpening for them. 01:39:45.384 --> 01:39:53.509 [SPEAKER_03]: So we have a watercolor background with tricyc belts and it basically simulates tourmak because we have the same size we have contact wheel. 01:39:54.409 --> 01:40:12.640 [SPEAKER_03]: like a turmer cast and it goes way faster than on a turmer because I do all my sharpening freehand so I hate the guided system from the turmer and even on the as flexible because it didn't have to adjust the angle and whatever so it's much faster on the belt. 01:40:12.800 --> 01:40:20.345 [SPEAKER_03]: Of course I could do it on a turmer as well but the turmer is kind of slow itself so they have to change wheels and then it wow. 01:40:20.645 --> 01:40:23.546 [SPEAKER_03]: I'd rather change a belt and change a wheel on the tarmac. 01:40:23.806 --> 01:40:26.427 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's really, yeah, yeah, make sense. 01:40:26.548 --> 01:40:29.269 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, changing changing wheels sucks on a tarmac. 01:40:29.469 --> 01:40:39.513 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think I fall under these stone sharpeners because I use my turmeric, but I use like CBN wheels, which are not stone with two. 01:40:39.673 --> 01:40:42.034 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but you still have to change them. 01:40:44.993 --> 01:40:58.593 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking of getting more tormax and you can get attachments to have both with like two wheels on both sides and because I only sharpened my knives the angles are set so I don't have to do you know do any fiddling so I want to minimize the 01:40:59.454 --> 01:41:07.259 [SPEAKER_03]: wheel changing, but I would I would but that was kind of my premise that we do so much happening for other people so I don't want to change. 01:41:08.020 --> 01:41:21.748 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to change like the the angle and the the wheels and stuff like all the time, but if you're only doing one knife for my knives stone sharpening, but for the sharpening service we provide or offer 01:41:29.380 --> 01:41:44.150 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, yeah, and with quality belts and using the tries that you can get amazing results, and it's just so much faster Yeah, I have I look let me state my case because I need to defend my kind of base No, I had first of all. 01:41:44.550 --> 01:41:51.955 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a speed adapter which increases the speed by like 40% which is nonnego You have a channel boost on your tour Mac 01:41:52.641 --> 01:42:18.712 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I have a turbo boost it is going quick that the boy is going quick and and you have to start with a rough stone you have to start with a rough wheel I start with a 160 grit which is like you know just couple like four passes each side and you have established a bird and then it's only refining with the next wheels which is again like couple of passes each side and you are done you are set it is great but 01:42:19.532 --> 01:42:23.673 [SPEAKER_00]: Walker, I know you use a kind of different system, would you like to tell us about it? 01:42:23.693 --> 01:42:30.515 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, as I adopted the news system using the little workshop can onion with the Belgrant or the little belt attachment. 01:42:31.355 --> 01:42:32.675 [SPEAKER_01]: And they are slick, dude. 01:42:33.996 --> 01:42:37.376 [SPEAKER_01]: I said all three of them up right in a row and I don't use the belts to come with them. 01:42:37.396 --> 01:42:40.497 [SPEAKER_01]: My blood specialty belts and you can get little, I forget what they are. 01:42:40.517 --> 01:42:43.318 [SPEAKER_01]: They're like one by 20 or something, another small belt. 01:42:44.923 --> 01:42:57.028 [SPEAKER_01]: And you get, you know, I got some some nice ceramics and then the trisac and then I finish on a leather and I mean they just work so slick and it's the same the cool thing about it too is because you free hand grind on it, but they have this little guide. 01:42:57.708 --> 01:43:02.370 [SPEAKER_01]: You kind of set the knife on to get you to get level and then you go down to the belt and you set the angle on the belt. 01:43:02.950 --> 01:43:07.892 [SPEAKER_01]: So you just have to hold the knife level and which is just a lot more natural than trying to hold the knife at the correct angle. 01:43:08.832 --> 01:43:11.693 [SPEAKER_01]: And I can just whip through a batch of knives on that is so fast. 01:43:14.542 --> 01:43:33.015 [SPEAKER_01]: The news turned me on to that system and man, he is slick and how is the belt we had out because it's the first thing that I would think right now I get through I'll get through about 10 knives on the lower grip belt and then the TRIZAC I can do about 20 knives on and then I'll hit the leather so 01:43:34.955 --> 01:43:38.396 [SPEAKER_01]: every two times I swap the lower grid, I'll swap the tries act. 01:43:39.157 --> 01:43:40.097 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's a nice system. 01:43:40.117 --> 01:43:41.657 [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean the belts are so cheap. 01:43:41.698 --> 01:43:45.199 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it just, you know, I buy 50 of them at a time and you're good to go. 01:43:46.079 --> 01:43:46.339 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow. 01:43:46.839 --> 01:43:47.279 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. 01:43:47.359 --> 01:43:47.719 [SPEAKER_00]: Sounds great. 01:43:47.799 --> 01:43:48.500 [SPEAKER_00]: End to your knives. 01:43:48.840 --> 01:43:50.880 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, they, I don't think they have a choice. 01:43:51.340 --> 01:43:52.561 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't do the choice, yeah. 01:43:53.601 --> 01:44:01.684 [SPEAKER_00]: And it really, this system allows you by going three hand, three hand and using a small belt, you can really get into the. 01:44:01.844 --> 01:44:02.624 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, works great. 01:44:03.166 --> 01:44:08.628 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've never done the choice because I feel like on the hunting knife, it's just a place for like the knife to catch on hides and stuff. 01:44:09.369 --> 01:44:15.491 [SPEAKER_01]: And on the river knife, I don't want anywhere where when you go to hack a rope for that rope to potentially snag before you get into making a cut. 01:44:15.591 --> 01:44:17.172 [SPEAKER_01]: So I've never done a choice on my tools. 01:44:17.901 --> 01:44:26.545 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a big, big brain thinking that actually works and I thought you would use up way more belts than you actually do, but it makes sense. 01:44:26.565 --> 01:44:34.448 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and you know, honestly, I've really only been using that system since I've been doing all these last few batches, which of all the magnicates, so I'm sure. 01:44:35.155 --> 01:44:41.937 [SPEAKER_01]: When I get down into, I got a big batch of river and I was coming to you, which are 440C and I'm sure those will just go way down there. 01:44:42.197 --> 01:44:44.238 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, two or three times the life out of it. 01:44:44.298 --> 01:44:44.698 [SPEAKER_01]: At least. 01:44:45.439 --> 01:44:45.639 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:44:45.939 --> 01:44:46.339 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's. 01:44:47.719 --> 01:44:48.179 [SPEAKER_00]: Makes sense. 01:44:48.279 --> 01:44:48.620 [SPEAKER_00]: Makes sense. 01:44:48.980 --> 01:44:52.761 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's way cheaper than having an atomic with CBN. 01:44:52.781 --> 01:44:57.763 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I love it too, because like I was saying, I brought them to that little buckbash show that we did. 01:44:58.363 --> 01:45:00.924 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was doing, I just did free sharpening for guys in the booth. 01:45:01.684 --> 01:45:11.087 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a huge draw for people to come, you know, come hang out at the booth while we were sharpening and it just brought a lot of people into and it's such a small portable little system and they work so good. 01:45:11.187 --> 01:45:11.807 [SPEAKER_01]: It was awesome. 01:45:12.327 --> 01:45:13.108 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it just brilliant. 01:45:13.328 --> 01:45:15.849 [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, yeah, it mobile, but it's great. 01:45:15.869 --> 01:45:18.509 [SPEAKER_00]: You just need an extension card and three plugs. 01:45:18.730 --> 01:45:19.650 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's it. 01:45:20.090 --> 01:45:20.770 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're slick. 01:45:21.110 --> 01:45:22.191 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it makes perfect sense. 01:45:22.771 --> 01:45:23.011 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 01:45:23.311 --> 01:45:24.231 [SPEAKER_00]: That was the game. 01:45:24.651 --> 01:45:25.212 [SPEAKER_00]: That was the game. 01:45:25.372 --> 01:45:28.973 [SPEAKER_00]: Albert, do you have any more questions to have a wonderful guest? 01:45:29.233 --> 01:45:29.393 [SPEAKER_03]: No. 01:45:30.626 --> 01:45:31.126 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm good. 01:45:31.346 --> 01:45:31.787 [SPEAKER_00]: Same here. 01:45:32.027 --> 01:45:35.149 [SPEAKER_00]: Walker, do you have anything to pluck on our wonderful show? 01:45:35.969 --> 01:45:40.812 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, boy, uh, you can check me out at walker knives on Instagram, walker knives.com on the internet. 01:45:41.292 --> 01:45:42.973 [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, yeah, it's been a blast, man. 01:45:42.993 --> 01:45:43.914 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a good chat with you guys. 01:45:43.974 --> 01:45:46.676 [SPEAKER_01]: And Albert, it's cool to learn that you're a fellow voter, dude. 01:45:47.016 --> 01:45:48.357 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have to get you a river knife. 01:45:48.837 --> 01:45:49.797 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'd love to. 01:45:50.078 --> 01:45:50.258 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 01:45:50.738 --> 01:45:51.759 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe we can trade. 01:45:52.119 --> 01:45:52.879 [SPEAKER_03]: I love trades. 01:45:53.440 --> 01:45:54.700 [SPEAKER_03]: I mostly do chef knives. 01:45:54.960 --> 01:45:57.442 [SPEAKER_01]: So, hey, I have a wife that loves to cook. 01:46:00.231 --> 01:46:07.398 [SPEAKER_03]: With this knife, you will learn to cook or love to cook. 01:46:07.658 --> 01:46:10.160 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's it everybody. 01:46:10.741 --> 01:46:13.403 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for coming to our wonderful show. 01:46:13.503 --> 01:46:16.546 [SPEAKER_00]: Support us on Patreon, High Carbon podcast. 01:46:16.586 --> 01:46:19.188 [SPEAKER_00]: We sometimes release low carbon episodes. 01:46:19.228 --> 01:46:22.171 [SPEAKER_00]: We have what Albert like three in store to release. 01:46:22.611 --> 01:46:23.112 [SPEAKER_03]: At least, yeah. 01:46:23.893 --> 01:46:24.393 [SPEAKER_00]: at least three. 01:46:24.514 --> 01:46:26.215 [SPEAKER_00]: So much more content to come. 01:46:26.875 --> 01:46:28.296 [SPEAKER_00]: Some spicy, some bullshit. 01:46:28.516 --> 01:46:34.420 [SPEAKER_00]: It's low carbon because we most often don't talk types and talk bullshit, which is maybe sometimes drama. 01:46:34.681 --> 01:46:37.242 [SPEAKER_00]: So you know, you know, it's worth paying $1 a month. 01:46:38.594 --> 01:46:42.978 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you are buying for one month, you can listen to all of those shows instantaneously. 01:46:43.038 --> 01:46:48.602 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you are working on a big batch of knives, you'll have some content to listen to some spicy content to listen to. 01:46:49.183 --> 01:46:50.223 [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you for coming. 01:46:50.464 --> 01:46:53.166 [SPEAKER_00]: And this was Hikabon podcast. 01:46:53.326 --> 01:46:55.267 [SPEAKER_00]: And next week, Keith is back. 01:46:55.327 --> 01:46:57.469 [SPEAKER_00]: Baby, choose off in design. 01:46:57.489 --> 01:46:57.589 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye. 01:46:57.609 --> 01:46:57.910 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye. 01:46:58.210 --> 01:46:58.310 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye. 01:46:58.350 --> 01:46:58.630 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye.