[SPEAKER_01]: Surprise, hello!
[SPEAKER_01]: Alicia from the Walshift Dust podcast checking in with a quick bonus episode linked to the surprise new apple novelette drop.
[SPEAKER_01]: Linked to all the events that take place between the silo season one finale and silo season three episode five.
[SPEAKER_01]: The novelette is called The Mystery of the Pets allegedly written by one Robert Sims.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, I'm Luke, ready to call into the mysterious mind of the man who puts the sims in sims now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, Apple dropped a little surprise in our lap, so we're paying it forward with a little surprise for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a bonus episode linked to season three episode five, related to the Apple exclusive short story relic, number 1175, the mystery of the pez by Robert Sims.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, we will be following the usual spoiler policy here, which is Luke, what is our spoiler policy?
[SPEAKER_00]: So the discussion will be spoiler-free beyond what's already aired.
[SPEAKER_00]: So full spoilers through episode five of season three of SILO.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that means anything that was on the screen in season one and two and the first final episode to season three, Alicia can talk about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Alicia has read the books, but I'm keeping it show only.
[SPEAKER_00]: So to protect mine and your spoiler and listen to that we know future books,
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, so I will only say anything related to the book that's already been on screen, nothing that hasn't been on screen, even if it's from we're still getting stuff from the first book now because I really like remix the order of events, so and yeah, because of all of that, there's always lots of room for speculation on my part, I simply won't speculate if it's a spoiler.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Abby and I do have our book club spoiler cast that we talk about at the end of all of our regular episodes and we will after the in this episode six spoiler cast Abby and I will talk about some additional more spoilery thoughts about
[SPEAKER_01]: This surprise little booklet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's it's, uh, we do recommend checking out this short little booklet before proceeding.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's linked in the show notes Android users.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to have to jump through an extra hooper to, but you, you can find it turned to read it for help if you need to, um, but yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So look, I mean, this is it's short, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's like less than 30 pages, but not even full pages.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's about 30 odd pages in like the Apple form I read it on and yeah, they're less than full pages and it is very much a book of the TV series as far as I could tell because yeah, not at all about them, but yeah, I think you've told me before the Camille doesn't exist in the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, no, no, no, compiling TV stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then Camille was referenced a number of times in this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's very much a silo project as I pose as a pose where we'll shift dust, um, projects.
[SPEAKER_01]: right yeah and it's again called really number 11 75 the mystery of the pez and it's by Robert Sims um in universe you know so written in universe it was released on Friday July 31 the same day as episode five on Apple Books.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it does contain in universe spoilers up to and including that up to episodes of be aware of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess it would still be called an epistolatory and epistolary story.
[SPEAKER_01]: I normally think, yeah, that's often like about when you write letters back and forth like Dracula.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was looking is there a different name for it when it's a diary format like Frankenstein and they're like, no, we call it epistolary story.
[SPEAKER_00]: it's still a pistol at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not an easy word to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, it sims journal entries documenting his private and illegal search into the origins and chain of possession of the Duffy Pes dispenser that's featured throughout the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, I would say reading it takes maybe an hour less, probably.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I did it the first time in like 45 minutes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what were your overall thoughts before we get into some of the, I mean, we're not gonna like recap the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of it is already recapping stuff in the show, but from Sims perspective, but we will dig into some interesting things that brought up.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what did you think overall?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, first off, I dare anybody that reads this not to read it in common's voice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I was just reading the whole thing in common, that's rather, you know, gruff baritone for the entire life.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you go, pages?
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think it gives you some, some like little nuggets that go quite well with episode five in terms of giving you an insight into what Robert Sims is thinking around his marriage to Camille.
[SPEAKER_00]: It gives you a load of background.
[SPEAKER_00]: as to the first rebellion, the first rebellion that we know of that happened a hundred and four years prior to the start of silo the series.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and is it, is it written by Hugh Howard?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure it's written by someone from the marketing department at Apple.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how about you, Elise?
[SPEAKER_00]: What did you think of it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, I mean, it's like apples done these before for other shows and they're always fun, but actually, I think this one gave more in-universe insight than I expected, because like, they did one for succession and one for pleurbus pleurbus was supposed to be like an excerpt from an in-universe novel.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not really meant to give a lot of exposition, um, although it did in the intro.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, that's pleurbus, um, but this actually, I thought of, I guess this is the third
[SPEAKER_01]: Apple novel letter that I've read and I think that and maybe it's because I'm so deep down this rabbit hole I was like, wow, they're actually saying a lot of interesting things here that I think are relevant to the show going forward Okay, yeah, you shall we get into them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's Your regularly scheduled breakdown will begin in three two one
[SPEAKER_01]: So as I said, I do recommend reading the story first, but we were just going to be picking out some of the most interesting bits here, and then we will be including this booklet in our future spoiler warnings so that we can openly discuss it going forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but yeah, so basically this covers the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: The first Sims entry begins right after Julia goes outside in the season one finale.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then continues through her return covering spoilers that are only, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: only told in episode five that just came out this past Friday.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, as I said, much of a recap certain events from Sims perspective and so we do get some more insight from his perspective, but we're going to focus especially on the new insights gleamed.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you had a question of authorship.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I'll say the intro is signed by it says, Flamekeeper S. Granger.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do wonder, like, is S. Granger?
[SPEAKER_01]: The name of the person who actually wrote it, like the real world person.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe there's a chance.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that hadn't occurred to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just thought it was in universe, but yeah, it would be.
[SPEAKER_00]: If it's not you, how are you, then?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is a pretty good chance.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's no way, it's you, how are you, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: OK. Yeah, it could be in universe.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if it's in universe, I was like, who could it possibly be someone whose first name begins with an S whose last name we don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the only person I could think of is one of the fan girls, this name Sally.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, or it could just be another random.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or it could be somebody we haven't met yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the question is when we know when Robert's entries are written, you know, because he places in the context of the events that we are familiar with from the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when the intro was written after that, but when after that, because we know the silos at an existential crisis, like we don't even know how long it's going to be around.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is true.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's like beyond, that would mean, yeah, because we know the longest, even if they weren't running out of light bulbs, even if they weren't, you know, having the D plus whatever, I guess that doesn't end the silo, but it would end memory of this unless it's found after that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's a good question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Could this be something if the D plus goes through something that they find later, but
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but okay, and or even if there's no safeguards still, we know there's like only 50 years of supplies left even if they somehow find them recover all those life bulbs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, maybe there's always a day, it's actually a slight boom.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll see.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought, yeah, it was interesting that the intro notes seems as an unexpected source.
[SPEAKER_01]: And sure, if like, if you ask the average fan before this, which character in the show, do you think will be writing a little book?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't think people wouldn't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, wouldn't they?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Jordan?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Jordan Lucas or Bernard or Judge Meadows?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even more Jones.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, possibly.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it seems to be about the last bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or Bellings or yeah, anyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Sims Camille, how would expect for me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you like, I'm the only thing from page.
[SPEAKER_00]: Seems like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it seems like trying to start like three times.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see, you see like three different openings across that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just write the damn thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I just want to note in the intro that this flamekeeper S. Greengers says, remembering our past is the only path toward a future outside.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh, that feels like a message to the real world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember, our history, don't repress our history, but yeah, as far as Sims being reluctant to start it, he notes at the beginning, the pact says unofficial written records are forbidden of relics.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is something that he's keeping a secret from his wife.
[SPEAKER_01]: We find out to protect her.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's, yeah, that's already just like playing into the tensions that are going on in the couple of Sims, but also my question is what are you like, we know they're not reading
[SPEAKER_01]: Much in the in the schools because it seems like like Juliette doesn't even know where her name comes from although I'll say she absolutely did in the book so the book version of Juliette knows has seen the play performed in the silo That doesn't seem to be the case in this version because all books were basically destroyed in the last urbellion So other than the pact what are they teaching them to read them right in school?
[SPEAKER_01]: emails?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's an interesting point, and also like, I suppose it's like the technical manuals as well for the various departments, but yeah, that would that would be about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: and they have to be able to communicate, you know, we use them regularly, sending each other functional messages.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, but yeah, there's nothing you could call lecture.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, that's sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's squashing the creative soul.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But do you notice, like do you have the feeling from this that Sims actually has more curiosity than we assumed?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yeah, and this is the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it does add to Sims' character without like taking you in a wildly different direction.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels plausible.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like some of the rubber Sims would do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wonder where that we will see this.
[SPEAKER_00]: on screen at some point either somebody finds it or we see him writing it or yeah so I wonder whether it will be bought into the show explicitly I hope so yeah yeah that would be interesting
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, again, and he also notes in here that Bernard, as we saw on screen, says the relic wasn't important, but it is now, and now we understand that that's because it's an artifacts, because it's like it would bring back Julie at memory, for example, which it did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was the tipping point in that, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about some of the topics that come up.
[SPEAKER_01]: The most interesting revealing part is about the pre-George history.
[SPEAKER_01]: We find out that before George, there were two confirmed owners of the PES dispenser.
[SPEAKER_01]: Both were sent to the mines.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was someone called Lana Moore.
[SPEAKER_01]: We never hear anything more about her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then we do hear more about someone called Lionel Nelson who was known as a rebel leader in this and that rebellion 140 years ago, the Salvador Quinn rebellion.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Sims says in his notes that the peasant Spencer has been lost since then until it turned up with George.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he says that from judicial interviews during the rebellion period,
[SPEAKER_01]: He noticed a lot of people became confused, which is obviously because of the memory drug.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's interesting that he asks, Who are you if you don't have memories of the people you love?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's interesting because we see this is a plot line right now in the story of this playing out this fear about the vitamin D plus wiping all the memories and is stunned not remembering him and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: But also, it just struck me that, you know, with the whole fact, we still haven't met this pair of stents and character who is teased at the end of the last episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we know he's played by Colin Hanks.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we know he started this clinic that Charlotte's at because his mother had Alzheimer's.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for anyone who's known someone, people who have had Alzheimer's,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, then they start to forget you, I don't know if you have any thoughts on that and whether that's an intentional parallel, but I just as someone who has experienced being on the remembering side of someone who loses memory of you, it struck a chord, it hit hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's, you know, if you've ever been in that situation, it will bring out a lot of a lot of other feelings and memories.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and did you get the sense from this?
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess, Sims didn't know it first, at least, as he was writing this, that you could, he knew about the forgetting drugs, obviously, because we saw him offering them the Patrick and all that, and that was something he did for Bernard occasionally, but it didn't seem like he knew
[SPEAKER_01]: that you could put it in the water.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that there was enough of it to don't stop.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or yeah, we'll just, yeah, that you could mess those at the end of the water basically.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think that is, that is Wes and Hora.
[SPEAKER_00]: of the whole thing comes from, you know, if he was just doing it to Patrick Kennedy, if he was just doing it to Luke's Kyle, who's doing it to Julia or Bernard, you know, that would be protecting the silo.
[SPEAKER_00]: By how do you rationalize protecting the silo when nobody's gonna know who anybody is when you're basically resetting an entire society?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what Sims is struggling with because everything he's done in his own head has always been towards the greater good or protected the silo and he just can't see how giving the memory drugs to everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good square when protecting the soil.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that makes sense, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we also learned when Lionel was arrested after rebellion, there were a number of relics linked to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a rubber ball that was destroyed back then.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a patch of cloth.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a white star on blue.
[SPEAKER_01]: I assume that's the US flag, or I looks it up in Georgia's flag, also has stars like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, that was also destroyed back then.
[SPEAKER_01]: The rest were not destroyed back then, although we have seen one destroyed since, uh, the Georgia Kids guidebook.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, Billings.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Billings mostly destroyed in season one, except that final page that we saw on the last episode in Julia's Artifac facts box.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, the other things in there where there was a three small, spiked metal pieces.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, are there was like, jacks?
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, like plants.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, maybe, or yeah, or maybe like pieces for a board game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because there's, yeah, lots of toys stuff that makes me think of the Frisbee and Judge Meadows Apartments or um, what do you think it is?
[SPEAKER_00]: What could they use it for?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: George also had like a shuttlecock and his thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so there was also a cow shaped stuffed doll in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I a small notebook with writing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, um, please find that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I need that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do we think I might be Helen's notebook?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, woo, woo, woo, woo.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so yeah, are we thinking because of the pez dispenser that somehow she ends up in this silo?
[SPEAKER_00]: The pez got the pez dispenser going there somehow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I'll say that certainly because of the pez dispenser, I have been hearing a lot of people theorizing that she ends up in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I'll say like it is it's it would be a book change of sorts, but it's one that's not outside of possibility.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, although this is 140 years ago, so it would be an old notebook already by them because again, they've been in their 352 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's from 100 years old.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be very real.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then again, I've handled stuff in archive, that's that's that old.
[SPEAKER_00]: But before you're allowed in the archives, even if you're not going to handle stuff that old, you still have to take training course on how to handle stuff that old.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's been noted several times in this booklet that the pez dispenser was especially well cared for.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that would, you know, you would think maybe all of these things were especially well cared for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the George Kidd's guide book, that was definitely from the before times.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was not produced in the silo for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, absolutely no.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, and that was, you know, 350 years old when we saw last season.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think, yeah, maybe they are just well taken care of.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think you're maybe not wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the last thing will come back to this one in a bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a sonogram photo in there, which is still at large.
[SPEAKER_01]: But George knew about this sonogram photo that he knew that it was something.
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't know the word sonogram.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sims gets that word from Bernard later, because Bernard knows it from the legacy and the vote.
[SPEAKER_01]: But George Nua was like taking pictures inside a pregnant woman's belly.
[SPEAKER_01]: He told Regina about it and Regina told Sims about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: but we'll come back to all that, that part, but speaking of pregnancies, so we learned that Lionel, the one who had all these relics, he had a wife named Patricia Bascom, and there was a strange lack of information from her post-Rebellion, so this is sort of the thread that Sims started pulling at.
[SPEAKER_01]: because he found from interviews with Lionel that she was apparently 37 weeks pregnant it sounds like, and Lionel was expecting her to have a girl named Alexandra, which will find out was born a boy named Alexander.
[SPEAKER_01]: and that Alexander would become the patriarch of a family of many teachers.
[SPEAKER_01]: And their way that Sims learned this is because there is a Dr. Keith Felton who sims a sounds like, it reminded me of the guy in the, like, the craftsman in the marketplace, where it's like he owed me, like he's afraid of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this guy was, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: He basically seems dropped a charge in exchange for a future favor.
[SPEAKER_01]: The kids of the guy was trading pills for un-sanctioned liquor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which made me wonder, like could it be linked to Frankie Brown, the season one minor character who got in trouble for selling Fed liquor?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that is, that is a deep cut.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a real deep cut, oh, you sure?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, probably, I don't know, probably not, but how many bootleggers, well, no, oh, yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, but anyways, so Sims was like, I'll drop the charge for future favor and now he's like, I'm cashin' in the favor, I need to see medical records.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Dr. Keith Feltin was maybe more helpful than he needed to be because he told Sims also, like, he couldn't find what he wanted at first and he's, and so Keith was like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, actually after the rebellion, a lot of mothers got visits at home, so check those records for this woman you think has given birth.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so in those records, Sims found something very out.
[SPEAKER_01]: He found a newborn with a mother named Marina Wilkins, who was listed as age 73.
[SPEAKER_01]: Insight.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not good enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that seems unlikely.
[SPEAKER_01]: So his assumption is that it was Patricia's new false identity.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he found out it was a paraplegic woman who had, it was a nerve damage or something, but anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she presumably passed away during the rebellion.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm guessing that that's not explicit.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it seems that Patricia took on this marina Wilkins identity after the rebellion and the reset.
[SPEAKER_01]: and spawned the Wilkins family.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, what is George's last name, Juliette's George?
[SPEAKER_01]: Wilkins.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Sims finds out that a hundred years after this, and Wilkins, George's mom,
[SPEAKER_01]: who we know was the last person who had possession of the Georgia guidebook, for example, she, yeah, their family was living in Lionel's old apartment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's another interesting question, because again, small silo, and Wilkins, it turns out, was Robert's year three teacher who used to give him private reading tutoring and hoped that he would become a
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I think this just goes to show that the silo is a very small community and at some point everybody is going to come across everybody else and yeah, you are going to get these these like and particularly with the whole shadowing system where people do tend to follow you know the same career paths father to son mother to daughter this this is going this is going to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, I thought given us a bit more background on George was was was was cool because I do hope at some point over series three or four or so that we do get a bit more of We do get a bit more of the silo pre season one like I'd like to know more about George I'd like to know more about
[SPEAKER_00]: Holston and Alison, I'd just like to know more about how the silo worked before things started to go, before things started to change, put it that way like the, you've got that in the first few episodes, but I'd still like a bit more of that at some point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I, I'm gonna say it's probably unlikely with the time they have left and what they have to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I think it's especially unlikely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you should keep campaigning for the Holston and Allison Spinal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think it was going to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, but maybe we find out more about this Wilkins family since we see it's connected to these important relics.
[SPEAKER_01]: considering the duck pes dispenser and maybe the notebook, as you point out, if they did eventually come in the silo with Helen, would that mean that George was a descendant of Helen?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, not necessarily, but it could.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that would go you on better what if she's what if he's descended of Helen and Daniel?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you know, after episode five, they definitely got so smoking the hot gamba street going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you've been predicting that they would be getting it on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Given them all.
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes that makes Bebass.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and the thing is the sonogram was also like, we know that was not taken in the silo.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was something that was brought into the silo.
[SPEAKER_01]: So probably someone who entered the silo, pregnant was Robert's kind of, I wouldn't have thought, I wonder why sonograms.
[SPEAKER_00]: aren't available in the silo, because we know that the computer technology is fairly, sort of, 1980s.
[SPEAKER_00]: But sonograms existed at that point, didn't they?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Something about the x-ray qualities.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess we haven't seen any x-rays in general.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I'll just think, if you are, if you are thinking about how to preserve, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, delivering babies would be like important and would be a key attribute of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you were going to bend the pact for anything, it would be for healthcare related stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Could it be related to the reasons why magnifying beyond a magnifying glass is illegal?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that that starts possible, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, well, about Ann Wilkins, George's mom, we find out that Sims, her former student, when he was 18 and just joined judicial to her disappointment, um, and informants accused and of hiding relics, which apparently was true, but none were found, uh, but Sims stayed and talked with her after this incident.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know, yeah, it seems like you just can't help but think what if Sims have become a teacher instead with that of them better.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you what.
[SPEAKER_00]: His students would have got fantastic test scores.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were afraid of him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's no way you are not going to sit down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shut up and learn.
[SPEAKER_00]: From the class.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I would say like maybe he wouldn't have become a scary, but it sounds like he learned that from his dad, who it sounds like, you know, a judicial security before him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, so he's just a big guy, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but big guys can not be scary, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's his demeanor.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, Regina, we learned some new insights on her, too, that Sims, according to Sims, is this is where we might say it's an unreliable narrator situation, but Sims says Regina enjoyed the thrill of the find when it came to the relics game versus George, who was doing this basically out of deep questions about the big meaning.
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe that's why George is more attracted to Juliette than Regina in the end, or, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: Choose, it falls in love with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it seems as a penny and I don't think it's necessarily an unreliable now, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it just makes clear that it's as a penny.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do think of what we've seen of George Virginia, it's pretty much accurate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I mean, but then I was kind of surprised to find, and worried this worries me to hear that Regina went to judicial, like she had been approached a lot as we've heard in the show, but after George left her to go downstairs and got together with Juliette, Regina went to judicial as an informant about him, which Sims says he thinks it was about like bitterness and jealousy, basically.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we didn't know that before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it just makes me worry about her loyalty to the silo vendors.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not what we're calling the mail.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's what I'm calling them.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you like it, you can do it too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think when you tried more or less, what else?
[SPEAKER_00]: Grumps up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is a good point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, question about her, though, is what ever happened to remember in season one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is from season one episode six.
[SPEAKER_01]: I pulled the quote a man who knows oh, this is actually a quote from our notes from then Just pull it out of our notes from that episode a man who knows everything would come at night and threaten the people She loves unless she gave him answers someone who knows everything she does all day not like judicial She said who comes who come during the day
[SPEAKER_01]: So we still don't know who is this mysterious man who would come to her at night and know everything, not like judicial.
[SPEAKER_00]: So are you saying that mean that that might be sins?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's not what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause he was judicial.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying that's still up in the air.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe that influence her to go as an influence.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's not, but I want to know who that is still.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then we find out Sims also brought Regina in for questioning after he became a judge.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, the in told her he was having doubts about Bernard and everything, basically.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when she told him about the sonogram.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we talked about the sonogram already.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's, you know, we saw Sims say to her in this past episode to be honest with her that his wife didn't know something and he was honest with her there then in an unexpected way as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, what kind of new insights do you feel like you got into Sims in this?
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I know, I know like the internal life of Robert Sims a bit better.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that he was, that he was smart at school, but that he struggled with his reading.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought you see his ambition.
[SPEAKER_00]: all the way through this which is not new but it does kind of it does kind of add to what we've already now unlike his tone towards Bernard changes as does the story goes on and I thought that was that was that was kind of cool yeah I think we we get more we get more insight into how not necessarily uh it isn't Camille's relationship about how he is feeling about
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, like Sims is quite a close-off character he doesn't give much away about is thoughts and feelings so to have.
[SPEAKER_00]: this like private space is quite interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I thought there was, you know, you feel a variety of feelings with him, you know, there's the tragic where he's like, how many more people need to fall from a railing before Bernard will trust me, like yikes, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: He just, he just really wanted a hug from me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he kind of finally got it that's fast episode of the pop is proud of you moment But we find out yeah after the meadows incident sims is resent me for Bernard grew understandably And then yeah, and he also says something about like when he's helping him in the digger avoid He's like I might have pressed a little harder than I needed to in his wounds, but Bernard felt like he deserved it basically
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Bernard encourages at this point, sims investigation, and obviously, old Bernard would be like cleaning, but now he's like, no, yeah, keep looking into this pet's dispenser.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you're actually on to something.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we also learn, by the way, that Bernard does not know why they are there.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing in the vault about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not that is interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, as you said, also the changing feelings toward Camille, where basically she stopped telling him things when she became head of IT and as the consequence, Robert stopped kind of trusting her judgment.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I mean, we definitely see that tension building between them.
[SPEAKER_01]: But just seeing his change at the beginning and his first entry, he says, hopeful people make reckless decisions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then this is why they had to like crush the hope of various things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is definitely straight out of the order.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's absolutely what we've heard learned about the order that it says things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then through the investigation, by the end of it, he's questioning why they wouldn't want people to have hope from seeing the Georgia book.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think about that change?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that makes sense because you don't want people going outside.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the temptation, the temptation is if you show them not book.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, maybe it's bad here, but if I could just make it over the other side of the hill, maybe maybe there's a place where it's all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, you just don't want to, we've talked about this before.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just don't want to torture people with a world that existed at one point, but no longer exists.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you think
[SPEAKER_00]: at this line in the book, and I'm part of them, there, there's a line in them, though, and I'm part of phrasing this slightly, where it seems actually says, you know, the only way to survive is to look towards the future.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think in that, he's correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I think that he is a point there.
[SPEAKER_01]: it's also it's interesting that he says he says in there like he's been confronting Julie yet saying that his son has gotten nervous since she broke in and caused trouble, you know, we're held his wife at gunpoint and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm hard to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you even have a gun?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, she locked her up.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in here, he says that his son's been uneasy since the letter bomb went off, which we saw, like mechanical sent-up, the notes that were like, don't trust Bernard notes basically, that rained down through the silo.
[SPEAKER_01]: And didn't mention the Juliet incident.
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably I'm reading too much into that, but I just think that's an interesting note.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you have any more thoughts about
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think that's, I think that's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was just saying, I would advise people to read it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to tell you anything revelatory, but it just adds a bit of context and depth and colour to the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also think it adds more weight to we see Robert kind of struggling with that decision at the end of the last episode to show the pez dispenser to Julia and this adds more weight to like why that's kind of like a struggle for him to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then makes me glad she handed it back to him afterward because at this point it means more to him than it does to her.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll keep this shorts.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you back on Friday for our episode six breakdown, but please do share this little mini bonus episode with any other silo fans, you know, who are looking into a deeper dive into this new short story.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we also want to hear your thoughts and theories as always, send them to woolshiftuspodcast at gmail.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll find that linked in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're planning our next mail bag for after episode six.
[SPEAKER_01]: So after this next episode is coming up.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now it's a perfect time to send your thoughts in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Books boiler thoughts are okay, but then they will be included in the book club episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Rather than the public breakdown, which we are keeping future books boiler free.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because I'm my innocent.
[SPEAKER_00]: My answer to the show only viewers must be protected.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and do jump into the discord.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll find a link in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did update that link.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you to the people who alerted me that it wasn't working.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, there are the separate spoiler chats per episode, this season, and last season, you'll find that in the book club.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll find those options in the show notes as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Last word, Luke.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm looking, uh, see everybody for the episode six, uh, break down.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, happy son of Graham hunting.