WEBVTT 00:28.613 --> 00:42.519 [SPEAKER_01]: The word vendetta originated in Italy and was related to clan-based foods, the meaning expanded to cover acts committed in a feud before eventually meaning a prolonged series of retaliatory, vengeful, or hostile acts. 00:43.019 --> 00:49.082 [SPEAKER_01]: Going back further, vendetta traces to the Latin verb Vindika, meaning vindication or revenge. 00:49.522 --> 00:55.305 [SPEAKER_01]: So it comes as little surprise to learn the antagonist in today's case was named Donald Vandetta. 00:55.785 --> 01:01.290 [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't care that his victim, Susan Reed, was with someone else, or had told him she wanted to end things. 01:01.730 --> 01:06.774 [SPEAKER_01]: He could not see past his own wants and desires, leading to a catastrophic outcome. 01:08.535 --> 01:11.818 [SPEAKER_01]: A few months back, we received an email from listener Sarah. 01:12.078 --> 01:17.323 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll skip the compliments, while they are appreciated, anyone who knows me knows that that is not my lovely 01:18.175 --> 01:25.358 [SPEAKER_01]: What she told me was that her great aunt Phyllis's daughter Susan had been murdered in 1987 near a rail yard. 01:25.798 --> 01:30.580 [SPEAKER_01]: Phyllis has since passed away taking the information she knew about the case with her. 01:31.280 --> 01:35.962 [SPEAKER_01]: Phyllis had been attending the parole hearings for her daughter's killer to make sure he stayed behind bars. 01:36.482 --> 01:43.625 [SPEAKER_01]: Since Sarah wasn't privy to the case details, she wanted to carry the torch for Susan, but she didn't have enough information to do so. 01:44.325 --> 01:46.967 [SPEAKER_01]: I have since received the police reports about the case. 01:47.267 --> 01:55.951 [SPEAKER_01]: While at first this appeared to be a lover scorned, and if I can't have you no one else will kind of jealous rage, the investigation revealed much more. 01:56.412 --> 01:58.893 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan sought help from friends and authorities. 01:59.233 --> 02:01.875 [SPEAKER_01]: She tried to protect herself by asking for support. 02:02.155 --> 02:04.696 [SPEAKER_01]: She told Donald no over and over again. 02:05.236 --> 02:09.679 [SPEAKER_01]: Still, nothing could stop this man on his green with envy path of destruction. 02:10.720 --> 02:19.187 [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't sure how I was gonna tell this story, but then all of our recent law and order viewings came into use, and I decided to tell it like one of those episodes. 02:19.628 --> 02:25.272 [SPEAKER_01]: What happened when investigators found and how everything turned out during the order portion of the case? 02:25.833 --> 02:27.054 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you gonna see anything awful? 02:27.094 --> 02:29.196 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, Lenny Brisco does all the time. 02:29.396 --> 02:38.944 [SPEAKER_01]: He always says something funny and sarcastic that you're like, oh, you know the system's broken, Lenny and then he turns around and it's like, Lenny, you're part of the broken system. 02:41.635 --> 02:52.905 [SPEAKER_01]: It was around 1015 p.m. on November 4, 1987 when a frantic man came running into the road and flagged down a police cruiser that just so happened to be patrolling that northeast Portland neighborhood. 02:53.446 --> 02:59.451 [SPEAKER_01]: dispatch was notified of a man near the Burlington Northern Railroad who had been spotted brandishing a gun. 02:59.972 --> 03:03.135 [SPEAKER_01]: That report was quickly updated to one of shots fired. 03:03.575 --> 03:06.498 [SPEAKER_01]: By 11 p.m., the homicide detectives were contacted. 03:07.215 --> 03:14.597 [SPEAKER_01]: Detectives arrived and met with the officers already at the rail yard at 10062 North Portland Road in North Portland. 03:15.077 --> 03:23.400 [SPEAKER_01]: This particular yard, known as the East St. John's Terminal, is nestled between St. John's to its southwest and van port to the northeast. 03:24.080 --> 03:28.941 [SPEAKER_01]: When first responders arrived, they found a woman lying on the ground just outside a small building. 03:29.461 --> 03:31.362 [SPEAKER_01]: Witnesses had put jackets over her. 03:31.762 --> 03:33.102 [SPEAKER_01]: She was bleeding profusely. 03:33.603 --> 03:34.723 [SPEAKER_01]: It was Susan Reed. 03:35.338 --> 03:39.641 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan had a slight residual pulse but was unresponsive and unconscious. 03:40.142 --> 03:45.266 [SPEAKER_01]: Once paramedics were able to attend to her, she wasn't breathing and that slight pulse was no longer. 03:45.766 --> 03:51.731 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan was officially declared dead at 11.44pm at a manual hospital after being life-lighted there. 03:52.151 --> 03:54.193 [SPEAKER_01]: This was now a homicide investigation. 03:54.973 --> 03:58.337 [SPEAKER_01]: That small building where Susan was found was known as a yard office. 03:58.737 --> 04:00.839 [SPEAKER_01]: It was partitioned into four different rooms. 04:01.240 --> 04:07.186 [SPEAKER_01]: There was a signal man's room, the car inspectors office, the switch man's room, and a signal man's storage room. 04:07.666 --> 04:13.392 [SPEAKER_01]: In addition to these rooms, there were bathrooms, lockers, and general office equipment, and hideous fluorescent lights. 04:14.215 --> 04:17.459 [SPEAKER_01]: It was noted there were signs of a struggle in the signal man's storage room. 04:18.139 --> 04:22.464 [SPEAKER_01]: Items were strewn about and there were what appeared to be blood droplets on the ground. 04:22.945 --> 04:28.230 [SPEAKER_01]: Following the blood, a larger pool was found on the concrete strip outside one of the access doors. 04:28.671 --> 04:35.058 [SPEAKER_01]: That pool was from where the officers had first found Susan, where she was lying face down, bleeding and unresponsive. 04:36.315 --> 04:41.577 [SPEAKER_01]: To figure out what had transpired investigators interviewed witnesses, most of whom were railroad employees. 04:42.037 --> 04:43.237 [SPEAKER_01]: First was John Lind. 04:43.457 --> 04:49.119 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a car inspector, thus he was on call in the car inspector's office on the west side of the building. 04:49.699 --> 04:57.722 [SPEAKER_01]: At the same time, Monti Collins was working in the Switchman's room, because she too was employed as a Switchman's, Susan was in the room with Monti. 04:58.322 --> 05:07.365 [SPEAKER_01]: Just after 10 p.m. John, the current specter, was in his office, and didn't see who entered the building through the side door, but he could hear a man yelling from that office. 05:07.965 --> 05:08.966 [SPEAKER_01]: Monti was threatened. 05:09.246 --> 05:14.648 [SPEAKER_01]: Then in a flash there were banging sounds and an argument coming from the woman's restroom slash locker room. 05:15.348 --> 05:18.712 [SPEAKER_01]: John could hear better once the involved parties moved into that space. 05:19.112 --> 05:22.596 [SPEAKER_01]: From there, he could tell his coworker Susan was speaking with a male. 05:23.137 --> 05:29.784 [SPEAKER_01]: The door separating John from the other room was violently swung open as Susan went running through the office and into the storage room. 05:30.224 --> 05:33.207 [SPEAKER_01]: This location allowed John to see more of what was happening. 05:33.948 --> 05:38.931 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan was followed into that room by a man who was holding a black revolver with a four-inch barrel. 05:39.332 --> 05:42.894 [SPEAKER_01]: The argument was escalating as the man accused Susan of committing adultery. 05:43.334 --> 05:47.177 [SPEAKER_01]: John couldn't see the man, but he could hear the two gunshots that came from his gun. 05:47.737 --> 05:55.202 [SPEAKER_01]: John took off out of the building and tried to flag down a passing truck, but he got incredibly lucky when a police cruiser just happened to come by. 05:56.062 --> 06:04.610 [SPEAKER_01]: Still watching the yard office from his safe distance, John saw Susan stumble out of that same door he had just escaped from, right behind her was the man with the gun. 06:05.231 --> 06:12.318 [SPEAKER_01]: They were standing so close together that when two more gunshots were heard, John couldn't see the trigger being pulled or the muzzle flash. 06:12.818 --> 06:18.263 [SPEAKER_01]: The man started running away but because that cop had been in the neighborhood, they were able to apprehend him quickly. 06:19.144 --> 06:31.133 [SPEAKER_01]: As for the cops not getting to Susan before those shots were fired, from the police report it seems John had to run up a road, so the car would have had to take a longer route to be able to drive to the location. 06:31.593 --> 06:39.179 [SPEAKER_01]: It also seems Susan was coming out of that building pretty quickly behind John, so it kind of could have all been happening in the same moment. 06:39.980 --> 06:43.923 [SPEAKER_01]: The man who had chased Susan down before shooting her was now in the back of a police car. 06:44.743 --> 06:48.705 [SPEAKER_01]: At 215 AM, two homicide detectives took over processing the crime scene. 06:49.145 --> 06:57.328 [SPEAKER_01]: Photos were taken, sketches were made, since Susan was at work, her car was in the parking lot, so hers and the shooter's vehicles were towed in for processing. 06:57.968 --> 07:00.589 [SPEAKER_01]: Another employee who was present that night was Dennis Phelps. 07:00.989 --> 07:08.992 [SPEAKER_01]: He hadn't witnessed the altercation or shooting, but he had seen the suspected shooter loitering around the yard office not long before everything transpired. 07:09.612 --> 07:16.097 [SPEAKER_01]: Realizing they had their man but he was unarmed, it was assumed the shooter had tossed the gun into the surrounding blackberry bushes. 07:16.597 --> 07:26.664 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it was nighttime, the bushes were a thorny nightmare, and it was located on a steep incline, the decision was made to hold off a search until morning, leaving an officer to maintain the scene overnight. 07:27.815 --> 07:31.179 [SPEAKER_01]: From there, the detectives went to the hospital to examine Susan's body. 07:31.519 --> 07:34.903 [SPEAKER_01]: Several gunshot wounds were seen in her torso as well as her right foot. 07:35.383 --> 07:38.727 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan was then taken to the medical examiner's office for an autopsy. 07:39.527 --> 07:47.196 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan had been wearing train engineer clothing, blue and white striped overalls, a blue green and yellow striped shirt, a red sweatshirt, and blue tights. 07:47.756 --> 07:51.319 [SPEAKER_01]: Once she was examined, it was found Susan had been struck by four bullets. 07:51.759 --> 07:55.943 [SPEAKER_01]: Her right foot had an entrance wound on the top with an exit wound through the bottom soul. 07:56.363 --> 08:01.727 [SPEAKER_01]: She had a wound with an entrance point at her right posterior thorax, meaning she was shot in the back. 08:02.088 --> 08:04.369 [SPEAKER_01]: That bullet exited the right side of her chest. 08:04.770 --> 08:05.991 [SPEAKER_01]: It struck her right lung. 08:06.431 --> 08:08.673 [SPEAKER_01]: Another shot was to her right midsection. 08:09.093 --> 08:13.397 [SPEAKER_01]: That bullet pierced her liver, grazed her gallbladder, and was still in her lower back. 08:13.897 --> 08:21.910 [SPEAKER_01]: While those were all very damaging, it was the shot through her chest that grazed the liver and pierced Susan's heart that most likely took her life. 08:22.431 --> 08:24.955 [SPEAKER_01]: That bullet was found in a vertebrae in her back. 08:25.516 --> 08:28.261 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan's cause of death was homicide by gunshot wounds. 08:29.072 --> 08:34.813 [SPEAKER_01]: Getting back to the office detectives met with the man who had been arrested at the scene, Donald William Vandetta. 08:35.273 --> 08:41.915 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald was given a sprite and his Miranda Rights to which he said, Does this mean I don't have to say anything until I have a lawyer? 08:42.455 --> 08:48.296 [SPEAKER_01]: Before his question could be answered, which might have brought the interview to an end, Donald continued talking. 08:48.896 --> 08:52.977 [SPEAKER_01]: Quote, whatever I say, I'm in trouble, but I'll tell you anything you want to know. 08:55.633 --> 09:00.916 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald Vendetta was from Vancouver, Washington, which is where he graduated from high school in 1959. 09:01.417 --> 09:08.141 [SPEAKER_01]: While there, he ran on the varsity cross-country team, played forward on the basketball team and earned the superlative of funniest. 09:08.741 --> 09:11.703 [SPEAKER_01]: He attended some classes at Central Washington in Cart College. 09:12.103 --> 09:15.245 [SPEAKER_01]: He was married in 1961, divorced in 81. 09:15.745 --> 09:19.808 [SPEAKER_01]: By the time he was arrested at 46 years old, he had two adult daughters. 09:21.143 --> 09:26.607 [SPEAKER_01]: At that time, he had been working as a salesperson for a loyal international moving company and tiger. 09:27.047 --> 09:34.453 [SPEAKER_01]: What was more important was that in 1983, he took early retirement after working for Burlington Northern Railroad for 20 years. 09:35.073 --> 09:38.276 [SPEAKER_01]: Once he made it all the way up the ladder to engineer, he stepped away. 09:38.936 --> 09:42.920 [SPEAKER_01]: It was while working as an engineer in 1979 that he met Susan Reed. 09:43.600 --> 09:45.882 [SPEAKER_01]: At first, they simply connected his co-workers. 09:46.343 --> 09:49.626 [SPEAKER_01]: Things changed, though, and not long after meeting the two began in a fair. 09:50.146 --> 09:53.229 [SPEAKER_01]: Set a fair was what led to Donald's marriage ending into voice. 09:53.870 --> 09:57.933 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald told the cops the relationship he shared with Susan was, quote, bizarre. 09:58.514 --> 10:03.839 [SPEAKER_01]: I know it can be hard for the kids to imagine a time when we didn't have internet or cell phones, but that was this time. 10:04.460 --> 10:17.361 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, at this time, ethical, non-monogamy wasn't obnoxiously everywhere, so a woman having a husband and a boyfriend was, hold on to your butts, uncommon, or at least not talked about constantly. 10:18.442 --> 10:34.446 [SPEAKER_01]: The bizarreness Donald was referring to was that for their eight year relationship, Donald had been married until he wasn't, and Susan was living with her long-term partner, Michael Armstrong, who knew nothing of her second clandestine relationship. 10:37.196 --> 10:43.758 [SPEAKER_01]: It was July of 87, four months before Susan was killed, that she apparently started to cool on the relationship with Donald. 10:44.198 --> 10:46.539 [SPEAKER_01]: Suddenly, she wasn't going to as apartment as often. 10:46.719 --> 10:50.540 [SPEAKER_01]: She was going out with other male co-workers drinking in Vancouver bars. 10:51.140 --> 10:52.520 [SPEAKER_01]: Little side note about that, though. 10:52.700 --> 10:57.942 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure Donald said male co-workers to make a point about Susan implying she was 10:58.722 --> 11:07.050 [SPEAKER_01]: Seeing other men, but as of now, like in 2026, only five to seven percent of railroad maintenance workers are female. 11:07.610 --> 11:11.254 [SPEAKER_01]: So back in the 80s, I can only imagine it was way less. 11:12.074 --> 11:15.998 [SPEAKER_01]: So drinks with your male co-workers is really just kind of an odd thing. 11:17.322 --> 11:20.887 [SPEAKER_01]: She's probably one of the only women, maybe even in the Portland area. 11:20.927 --> 11:23.511 [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say that John had a huge radius, she's it. 11:23.731 --> 11:30.461 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so he was selling the cops, kind of like, yeah, she was going out these other guys and it's like, well, that's like by default. 11:30.861 --> 11:31.081 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 11:32.343 --> 11:41.174 [SPEAKER_01]: The more Susan pulled away the more obsessed Donald became, he admitted that her distance led to him following her around, which eventually grew into full-on stalking. 11:41.555 --> 11:44.839 [SPEAKER_01]: He would watch her to see where she went after work and who she was with. 11:45.239 --> 11:47.582 [SPEAKER_01]: His jealousy was worsening with each day. 11:48.263 --> 11:56.428 [SPEAKER_01]: On the night of September 20, Donald couldn't take Susan's indifference anymore and decided to confront her to ask why she wasn't coming by his apartment anymore. 11:56.868 --> 11:58.769 [SPEAKER_01]: When he called her home, she wasn't in. 11:59.129 --> 12:03.092 [SPEAKER_01]: So he went to her house and watched it from his car until 4am. 12:04.272 --> 12:10.200 [SPEAKER_01]: When she finally came home, he confronted her, and I can only imagine her shock and anger at his invasive behavior. 12:10.641 --> 12:14.385 [SPEAKER_01]: When he asked where she had been, Susan told him she didn't want to see him any longer. 12:14.826 --> 12:18.571 [SPEAKER_01]: Hearing this, he said that the, quote, anger kept building in me. 12:20.181 --> 12:28.923 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald became so obsessed with the idea of Susan's seeing other men that he started to look into her car window to read the mileage on her odometer. 12:29.283 --> 12:32.323 [SPEAKER_01]: Just to see if she had been honest about where she had been going. 12:33.323 --> 12:34.664 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because that's a new one for me. 12:34.744 --> 12:35.764 [SPEAKER_01]: I hadn't heard that one. 12:36.204 --> 12:36.644 [SPEAKER_00]: Gross. 12:36.984 --> 12:39.224 [SPEAKER_00]: Go to go to therapy, man, and take a pill. 12:39.684 --> 12:40.465 [SPEAKER_01]: Meet someone else. 12:40.485 --> 12:42.045 [SPEAKER_01]: Just move on. 12:42.065 --> 12:42.965 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of energy. 12:42.985 --> 12:44.765 [SPEAKER_00]: You're seeing on something. 12:44.845 --> 12:45.465 [SPEAKER_01]: A read a book. 12:45.485 --> 12:45.885 [SPEAKER_01]: Fruitless. 12:46.085 --> 12:46.306 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 12:46.786 --> 12:47.746 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, go read a book. 12:50.533 --> 12:58.720 [SPEAKER_01]: convinced that she had dumped him so she could date other men, Donald told Susan that he was going to tell Michael, her boyfriend, about the affair. 12:59.121 --> 13:01.823 [SPEAKER_01]: She said that he was acting jealous and suspicious. 13:02.204 --> 13:04.606 [SPEAKER_01]: She was also pissed that he was making threats. 13:05.286 --> 13:08.830 [SPEAKER_01]: What remained of their relationship was getting worse with every interaction. 13:09.310 --> 13:14.552 [SPEAKER_01]: On October 27, things came to a head when Susan told Donald, she never wanted to see him again. 13:15.052 --> 13:21.334 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald was so distraught by this he stopped going to work and randomly flew to Palm Springs where he stayed for two days. 13:21.874 --> 13:27.376 [SPEAKER_01]: When he returned on the 30th, he left a note on Susan's car window that read, will you please talk to me. 13:27.936 --> 13:34.681 [SPEAKER_01]: While speaking with the detectives, he realized that at this point, this is terrible to say this, but I was out of control. 13:35.482 --> 13:37.964 [SPEAKER_01]: With every pushback, Donald increased his stocking. 13:38.264 --> 13:41.286 [SPEAKER_01]: By this point, Susan had told him she was afraid to be alone with him. 13:41.807 --> 13:45.549 [SPEAKER_01]: Two days after Donald returned from California, he went searching for Susan. 13:46.030 --> 13:50.373 [SPEAKER_01]: I know Portland is a small big city, but damn if he didn't track her down. 13:51.154 --> 13:54.216 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan was enjoying a Sunday evening dinner with her friend Emily at the 13:56.186 --> 14:01.230 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this info found me and it gave me a tummy ache, so now you have to help me carry it. 14:01.891 --> 14:05.554 [SPEAKER_01]: For those unfamiliar, Portland has two bridges that access Washington. 14:05.934 --> 14:16.162 [SPEAKER_01]: They are both a nightmare and it's been a battle for decades to get a better one at the very least for the I-5 which is on the west side, kind of Portland proper, as opposed to the 205 which is further east. 14:16.262 --> 14:17.563 [SPEAKER_00]: The Glen Jackson Bridge. 14:17.583 --> 14:19.965 [SPEAKER_00]: The Glen Jackson Bridge is a nightmare. 14:19.985 --> 14:20.946 [SPEAKER_00]: We all call it that. 14:21.026 --> 14:22.687 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll be taking the Glen Jackson. 14:23.828 --> 14:28.832 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so near the I-5 bridge, our area is known as Delta Park in Janssen Beach. 14:29.312 --> 14:37.198 [SPEAKER_01]: Digging around about the red-steer restaurant, I learned it was located on Marine Drive, which is one of my favorite roads as it winds along the Columbia River. 14:37.778 --> 14:41.981 [SPEAKER_01]: The more well-known landmark in that area currently is the Expo Center. 14:42.482 --> 14:47.745 [SPEAKER_01]: And back in the day, that land was the stockyards for the cattle and sheep that would be eventually slaughtered. 14:48.126 --> 14:51.328 [SPEAKER_01]: The remnants were pumped out of a drain into the Columbia slew. 14:51.844 --> 14:52.344 [SPEAKER_01]: fun. 14:53.064 --> 14:59.346 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also rumored that that is where the owner of the red steer restaurant would go to pick out his own meat and slaughter it himself. 15:00.247 --> 15:02.747 [SPEAKER_00]: It was pretty famous for good meat, so I guess if you're into that. 15:03.608 --> 15:14.851 [SPEAKER_01]: And from May to September 1942, those very same stockyards are where humans, from Oregon and Washington were sent as part of the Japanese internment camps of World War II. 15:16.380 --> 15:22.044 [SPEAKER_01]: Fast forward 45 years to Susan and Emily enjoying dinner, at least until Donald came while singing. 15:22.324 --> 15:26.768 [SPEAKER_01]: He confronted Susan and even had the audacity to sit in the booth with the women. 15:27.188 --> 15:36.294 [SPEAKER_01]: I can only imagine the myriad of emotions Susan was experiencing fear that he was following her anger, that he was approaching her annoyance at his obsession. 15:36.875 --> 15:40.437 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald explained he was wanting to talk to her, but she refused. 15:40.618 --> 15:43.620 [SPEAKER_01]: And Emily, who was probably well aware of the situation, 15:43.980 --> 15:49.361 [SPEAKER_01]: threatened to call the police, while telling the cops the story Donald said, quote, I'm possessed. 15:49.641 --> 15:51.041 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm possessed to talk to her. 15:51.261 --> 15:52.662 [SPEAKER_01]: I want her to talk to me." 15:53.802 --> 15:59.163 [SPEAKER_01]: Jilted, Donald left the red steer, walked to the nearest phone booth and called Michael Susan's partner. 15:59.603 --> 16:03.504 [SPEAKER_01]: As he confessed to their almost decade-long affair, the police arrived. 16:03.944 --> 16:08.464 [SPEAKER_01]: Emily or Susan had followed through on that threat and the officers needed to speak with Donald. 16:08.825 --> 16:11.165 [SPEAKER_01]: He hung up the phone and engaged in a conversation. 16:11.685 --> 16:15.546 [SPEAKER_01]: The officers told Donald he needed to leave the area and to not bother Susan. 16:16.087 --> 16:19.288 [SPEAKER_01]: After the short discussion, Donald agreed to leave, which he did. 16:19.808 --> 16:20.808 [SPEAKER_01]: Except he didn't go home. 16:21.188 --> 16:24.369 [SPEAKER_01]: He waited and followed Susan to the home she shared with Michael. 16:25.050 --> 16:28.451 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald went to the front door and forced his way inside their home. 16:28.831 --> 16:32.172 [SPEAKER_01]: Michael chased him outside immediately, but he still didn't leave. 16:32.692 --> 16:37.554 [SPEAKER_01]: Instead, he snuck back onto the property and found a spot on the front porch where he could hide 16:41.155 --> 16:47.240 [SPEAKER_01]: Because of Donald's phone call and the increasingly unstable behavior he was exhibiting, Susan admitted to the affair. 16:47.620 --> 16:49.962 [SPEAKER_01]: She also told Michael how scared she was of Donald. 16:50.362 --> 16:54.305 [SPEAKER_01]: It probably helped that he had followed her home to show just how dangerous he was being. 16:54.806 --> 17:01.571 [SPEAKER_01]: The couple was eventually able to laugh off Donald's pathetic behavior, which he heard, and that only pissed him off more. 17:02.793 --> 17:08.397 [SPEAKER_01]: After that night, Donald decided he wouldn't be contacting Susan anymore, which lasted for a whopping two days. 17:09.178 --> 17:15.943 [SPEAKER_01]: On Wednesday the fourth, he decided he had to speak with her to clear up the nagging questions in his mind, like, am I ever going to see you again? 17:16.584 --> 17:21.888 [SPEAKER_01]: At 830 pm, he drove to the Railyard, parked two blocks away and walked to the art office. 17:22.388 --> 17:24.730 [SPEAKER_01]: There, he found Susan's car parked in the lot. 17:25.190 --> 17:28.553 [SPEAKER_01]: Old habits die hard and he looked inside the window to read her mileage. 17:29.073 --> 17:38.420 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan was either on to him or this was just a happy accident that a pair of sunglasses were placed just so on the steering column so that the odometer was blocked. 17:39.213 --> 17:47.656 [SPEAKER_01]: He had brought with him a list of questions for Susan, mostly about his need to get reassurance regarding their relationship, and that list was later found at the scene. 17:48.597 --> 17:54.179 [SPEAKER_01]: From the bluff where Donald had parked, he could look down to the switchhouse and see everyone coming and going. 17:54.739 --> 17:58.900 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan arrived back to the yard via an engine and went into the building. 17:59.340 --> 18:03.482 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald went to the office and looked in the window of the switchman's room where he saw Susan. 18:04.002 --> 18:08.143 [SPEAKER_01]: Then he just busted in through an entrance and made his way to her office. 18:08.823 --> 18:15.205 [SPEAKER_01]: When she saw him, Susan ran into the restroom where John had seen her, like Michael Myers Donald menacingly followed her. 18:15.785 --> 18:18.186 [SPEAKER_01]: As he did, he yelled for Monti to leave the building. 18:18.606 --> 18:22.789 [SPEAKER_01]: Getting out of the restroom, Susan went back into her office, but he was still in pursuit. 18:23.329 --> 18:25.951 [SPEAKER_01]: Unbeknownst to Susan, Donald had a gun in his pocket. 18:26.312 --> 18:32.396 [SPEAKER_01]: Hoping to scare her into a forced conversation, he pulled it out, pointed it out, her and said, now you'll talk to me. 18:32.676 --> 18:37.680 [SPEAKER_01]: And asked, do you know the things loaded before firing a shot into a cardboard box on the floor? 18:38.000 --> 18:39.962 [SPEAKER_01]: He continued to demand a conversation. 18:40.722 --> 18:45.525 [SPEAKER_01]: Watching Susan back up, he saw she had grabbed something and assumed it would be used to defend herself. 18:46.045 --> 18:54.569 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald started to realize that he's made a big mistake, and he's going to be going to jail for his threats for trespassing and now for firing a weapon. 18:55.230 --> 19:00.393 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's among a pretty long list of other offenses to be worried about, but yeah, this is bad. 19:01.013 --> 19:03.834 [SPEAKER_01]: Friendly reminder, this is all according to the shooter. 19:03.914 --> 19:06.156 [SPEAKER_01]: This is his account talking to the detective. 19:06.216 --> 19:08.197 [SPEAKER_01]: So what exactly was said and 19:11.398 --> 19:15.039 [SPEAKER_01]: Overwhelmed with rage, he shoved Susan, knocking her down to the ground. 19:15.419 --> 19:20.261 [SPEAKER_01]: The big tough man, the naster, how's it feel now that you know what it's like to be hurt? 19:20.821 --> 19:26.903 [SPEAKER_01]: And his attempt to keep her scared, he fired another shot at the ground except this time he missed and shot Susan in the foot. 19:27.423 --> 19:28.403 [SPEAKER_01]: Things were spiraling. 19:28.623 --> 19:31.744 [SPEAKER_01]: He asked her to come with him so that they could have a conversation in the car. 19:32.164 --> 19:33.765 [SPEAKER_01]: She told him she couldn't walk. 19:34.225 --> 19:36.766 [SPEAKER_01]: She begged, don't do this to me. 19:37.086 --> 19:37.766 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't hurt me. 19:38.566 --> 19:40.848 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald pointed the gun toward her and fired again. 19:41.289 --> 19:44.212 [SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't sure if he hit her but she said, please help me. 19:44.812 --> 19:48.016 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald then asked John the car inspector if he was going to help Susan. 19:48.516 --> 19:51.219 [SPEAKER_01]: While doing that, Susan was able to backhand Donald. 19:51.559 --> 19:53.721 [SPEAKER_01]: With that distraction, John escaped the building. 19:54.042 --> 19:56.825 [SPEAKER_01]: This was when he ran up to the road and flagged down the patrol car. 19:57.665 --> 20:03.748 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald claimed he then carried Susan into the car inspector's office as she said, Don, I love you. 20:03.908 --> 20:04.609 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't kill me. 20:04.869 --> 20:05.309 [SPEAKER_01]: Help me. 20:05.729 --> 20:06.150 [SPEAKER_01]: Help me. 20:06.770 --> 20:10.512 [SPEAKER_01]: He placed on the floor and tried to take a break seeking a drink of water. 20:11.092 --> 20:16.235 [SPEAKER_01]: As he did that, Susan saw her opportunity and made a run for it out the same door John had just exited. 20:16.695 --> 20:20.297 [SPEAKER_01]: Following her, Donald found her trying to hide and bushes outside the door. 20:21.097 --> 20:28.283 [SPEAKER_01]: According to Donald, it was at this time he told her to get out of the bushes and he started to hand her the gun, asking her to shoot him. 20:28.984 --> 20:31.966 [SPEAKER_01]: Before he could, he claims she started grabbing at the gun. 20:32.347 --> 20:37.231 [SPEAKER_01]: Because there's no winning with a man like that, her grabbing actually ended up annoying Donald. 20:37.571 --> 20:41.434 [SPEAKER_01]: He pulled the gun away from her grip, aimed the barrel at her, and fired again. 20:42.295 --> 20:48.861 [SPEAKER_01]: Another version he gave during this interview involved him shooting Susan while they were in the office right after he got a drink of water. 20:49.342 --> 20:53.326 [SPEAKER_01]: The shot fired outside was just shot into the air as Susan was on the ground. 20:54.006 --> 20:56.949 [SPEAKER_01]: So like I said, a grain of salt with all of this. 20:58.230 --> 21:01.814 [SPEAKER_01]: After Susan was gunned down, Donald thought to himself, I've got to get out of here. 21:02.234 --> 21:03.715 [SPEAKER_01]: There was blood running from her mouth. 21:03.895 --> 21:06.798 [SPEAKER_01]: He knew Susan was in bad shape, so he took off running. 21:07.238 --> 21:11.162 [SPEAKER_01]: He went to the engine, Susan had just arrived on and threw the gun into the underbrush. 21:11.582 --> 21:14.425 [SPEAKER_01]: For a brief moment, he considered turning the gun on himself. 21:14.925 --> 21:22.072 [SPEAKER_01]: Changing his mind, he decided he should drive Susan to the hospital, so he went back for her, but he didn't take her to the hospital. 21:22.472 --> 21:29.037 [SPEAKER_01]: Instead, he laid on the ground next to her, which is where the police and Michael, who arrived at the same time, found him. 21:29.697 --> 21:34.040 [SPEAKER_01]: From there, Donald was arrested and brought in for questioning where he told his side of the story. 21:34.401 --> 21:41.026 [SPEAKER_01]: He then explained he had purchased the 22 caliber gun used in the murder for $53 from a pawn shop two weeks prior. 21:41.466 --> 21:45.389 [SPEAKER_01]: The reason he made that purchase was to use the gun only to scare Susan. 21:46.009 --> 21:56.041 [SPEAKER_01]: Talking out of both sides of his mouth, Donald said he was unfamiliar with guns, while also saying he had been given firearm training when he was in the national guard from 59 to 61. 21:57.083 --> 22:01.568 [SPEAKER_01]: So, again, you don't have to believe everything this guy says, because he sucks. 22:02.049 --> 22:03.831 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, especially the versions where it's her fault. 22:04.717 --> 22:13.527 [SPEAKER_01]: After purchasing the gun, he shot 12 practice rounds into the Columbia River, which is a weird thing to practice if you bought the gun only to scare someone. 22:13.988 --> 22:19.715 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also pretty weird to load that weapon four days before the incident if you didn't plan on needing bullets. 22:20.175 --> 22:20.715 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm. 22:21.415 --> 22:25.036 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald eventually admitted he didn't accidentally shoot Susan in the foot. 22:25.076 --> 22:26.957 [SPEAKER_01]: He did it purposefully to cause pain. 22:27.577 --> 22:30.217 [SPEAKER_01]: As for the other shots, they were fired out of fear. 22:30.658 --> 22:32.878 [SPEAKER_01]: He was angry and felt Susan was taunting him. 22:33.318 --> 22:39.380 [SPEAKER_01]: Even though he mistook a breakup for taunting, he told police he wasn't crazy and he knew what he had done was wrong. 22:39.780 --> 22:42.080 [SPEAKER_01]: He was never fearful of Susan's self-defense. 22:42.460 --> 22:44.501 [SPEAKER_01]: He knew he was in control of the situation. 22:44.801 --> 22:46.882 [SPEAKER_01]: Though he did feel he was having a concerning 22:49.494 --> 22:54.196 [SPEAKER_01]: When the officers told Donald Susan had been declared dead, he cried only briefly. 22:54.617 --> 22:59.599 [SPEAKER_01]: He made a tape statement and nearly four hours after he attacked Susan, the interview was over. 22:59.959 --> 23:05.042 [SPEAKER_01]: He signed over blood in urine samples and processing began on his vehicle and Vancouver apartment. 23:05.862 --> 23:15.669 [SPEAKER_01]: With their man in custody and the son coming up detectives returned to the scene and began the search for the gun, it was recovered from the shrubs where Donald claimed to have tossed it, as were the spent shells. 23:16.209 --> 23:26.937 [SPEAKER_01]: The search of the car turned up a box these six shot revolver had come in, ammunition for a 22 and a note that officers felt exhibited possible suicidal ideation were all found in the apartment. 23:27.597 --> 23:30.378 [SPEAKER_01]: The next day Detective spoke with Michael, Susan's partner. 23:30.798 --> 23:38.639 [SPEAKER_01]: He asked about her property, police asked about a message on their home answering machine, where Susan had told Michael that Donald was, quote, here to get me. 23:39.259 --> 23:42.740 [SPEAKER_01]: Michael broke the news that the tape had accidentally been recorded over. 23:43.300 --> 23:50.462 [SPEAKER_01]: Michael knew she meant Donald and when he heard the message he rushed to her work, hence his arriving at the same time the men extended. 23:58.634 --> 24:01.295 [SPEAKER_01]: Detectives also spoke with Donald's brother Gerald. 24:01.475 --> 24:03.735 [SPEAKER_01]: He was aware of Donald's relationship with Susan. 24:03.935 --> 24:08.496 [SPEAKER_01]: They had spoken on the phone a week before the murder and Gerald reported there was nothing out of the ordinary. 24:09.117 --> 24:13.098 [SPEAKER_01]: Their next call was to Mary Ann, who worked with Donald at Lyle moving company. 24:13.558 --> 24:20.679 [SPEAKER_01]: She reported to detectives that two weeks before the shooting, he took time off from work to deal with depression and overwhelming personal problems. 24:21.060 --> 24:22.620 [SPEAKER_01]: This was when he went to Palm Springs. 24:23.180 --> 24:28.767 [SPEAKER_01]: When he took that time off, Marianne felt Donald sounded suicidal, but never imagined he would harm Susan. 24:29.447 --> 24:32.351 [SPEAKER_01]: Marianne knew of Susan and Donald's obsession with her. 24:32.771 --> 24:39.559 [SPEAKER_01]: She felt the relationship was one-sided, and that Susan saw Donald when she wanted to whereas he would drop everything to see her. 24:40.540 --> 24:45.347 [SPEAKER_01]: A woman named Cheryl had been a close friend of Susan's, having known her for the previous eight years. 24:45.767 --> 24:48.591 [SPEAKER_01]: They had become friends as their daughters attended the same school. 24:49.052 --> 24:52.136 [SPEAKER_01]: For as long as they had been friends, Susan had been with Michael. 24:52.736 --> 24:56.662 [SPEAKER_01]: Cheryl's take on their relationship was that it was non-plotonic and stormy. 24:57.162 --> 25:04.845 [SPEAKER_01]: Cheryl also knew of Donald and how Susan felt she was using that relationship to kind of fill in the blanks of what was missing between her and Michael. 25:05.426 --> 25:06.766 [SPEAKER_01]: Everything seemed to be fine. 25:07.186 --> 25:10.108 [SPEAKER_01]: That was until the six weeks prior to Susan's death. 25:10.708 --> 25:16.631 [SPEAKER_01]: At that time there was a notable change and Cheryl felt it was because Donald had assumed Susan was seeing someone else. 25:17.251 --> 25:19.452 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess she was only allowed to cheat with him. 25:20.674 --> 25:24.696 [SPEAKER_01]: Through her talks with Susan, Cheryl learned just how dangerous Donald had become. 25:25.137 --> 25:29.899 [SPEAKER_01]: This was back when Donald was first acting strange and before Susan broke things off entirely. 25:30.420 --> 25:38.965 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan told her about his behavior of late, how Donald had been following her, and after watching her get home at 4am, he confronted her later that day. 25:39.905 --> 25:44.368 [SPEAKER_01]: That day, after he had gone to her house, they were already planning on going into the 25:49.451 --> 25:58.336 [SPEAKER_01]: So while they were making that hour-ish drive, Donald called Susan names as he rented and raved about how she was seeing someone else from work and then he was going to kill her because of it. 25:58.856 --> 26:03.999 [SPEAKER_01]: Like most abusers, Donald eventually calmed down and apologized for his unreasonable behavior. 26:04.819 --> 26:14.184 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan didn't say it at the time, but she told Cheryl that in those moments while it was just the two of them in the car, she really felt like he was going to do something to hurt her. 26:14.865 --> 26:18.787 [SPEAKER_01]: It was at the end of that date that Susan told Donald she was ending things for good. 26:19.648 --> 26:28.891 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan confided in Cheryl that since that date and subsequent breakup, she had become even more scared and started to look around for Donald before leaving her home or work. 26:29.331 --> 26:32.072 [SPEAKER_01]: She felt he was following her, watching and waiting. 26:32.892 --> 26:35.973 [SPEAKER_01]: A week after that conversation, Cheryl received a call from Susan. 26:36.413 --> 26:41.799 [SPEAKER_01]: Cheryl asked for an update on the Donald situation and according to Susan, things seemed to be just fine. 26:42.399 --> 26:46.083 [SPEAKER_01]: She felt the intensity and angered Donald had expressed head blown over. 26:46.583 --> 26:49.967 [SPEAKER_01]: He had just been mad and heartbroken, so he said hurtful things. 26:51.168 --> 26:56.273 [SPEAKER_01]: Three weeks before the murder, Susan went over to Cheryl's again, and again, Cheryl asked about Donald. 26:56.693 --> 27:04.176 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan's hopes for this having been a one-off were squashed, Donald had again threatened to kill her, but she didn't go into the details of that threat. 27:04.636 --> 27:07.657 [SPEAKER_01]: She did explain that Donald had a reason to threaten her. 27:08.217 --> 27:16.120 [SPEAKER_01]: Not really, of course, as a man she'd never threatened violence against anyone, especially a woman, but according to Susan, it was because Donald was right. 27:16.521 --> 27:20.262 [SPEAKER_01]: She was having a discreet affair with Wade, a guy from work. 27:21.360 --> 27:28.811 [SPEAKER_01]: Cheryl couldn't believe Susan was already seeing someone else from work when the other guy from work was threatening her and her partner at home was still oblivious. 27:29.492 --> 27:34.119 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan explained she hadn't purposely sought out another relationship, especially with a coworker. 27:34.580 --> 27:35.481 [SPEAKER_01]: It just kind of happened. 27:36.262 --> 27:39.485 [SPEAKER_01]: Cheryl asked if the Wade situation made her more fearful of Donald. 27:39.965 --> 27:41.146 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan said it didn't. 27:41.606 --> 27:44.168 [SPEAKER_01]: She and Wade were being very careful, very discreet. 27:44.629 --> 27:47.171 [SPEAKER_01]: That didn't mean she wasn't fearful of Donald in general. 27:47.231 --> 27:49.513 [SPEAKER_01]: She just didn't think that he would find out about Wade. 27:49.873 --> 27:51.254 [SPEAKER_01]: Did Wade know about Donald? 27:51.614 --> 27:53.276 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're going to talk to Wade in a moment. 27:53.396 --> 27:57.399 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, because if I were Wade, I'd be real scared. 27:57.419 --> 27:59.060 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm going to check out for a little bit. 27:59.080 --> 28:00.982 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll come back to this later. 28:02.393 --> 28:08.215 [SPEAKER_01]: When Cheryl asks Susan outright, if she felt Donald was capable of killing her, she said she wasn't sure. 28:08.795 --> 28:10.956 [SPEAKER_01]: She knew he could get angry enough to do it. 28:11.356 --> 28:15.217 [SPEAKER_01]: She also knew Donald had beaten up his ex-wife's new boyfriend out of jealousy. 28:15.957 --> 28:21.319 [SPEAKER_01]: Overall, Cheryl felt like Susan sounded concerned, but less so than in previous conversations. 28:21.759 --> 28:29.342 [SPEAKER_01]: She also learned that even though Susan had ended things, she was still in contact with Donald by what means in frequency those aren't known. 28:30.311 --> 28:33.454 [SPEAKER_01]: Investigators then interviewed Susan's long-term partner Michael. 28:33.834 --> 28:42.982 [SPEAKER_01]: He informed detectives that he had been unaware of her eight-year affair with Donald until the Sunday before she was killed when he called Michael from the red-steer payphone to spill the beans. 28:43.743 --> 28:52.730 [SPEAKER_01]: Even though Susan confirmed the allegations she didn't get into specifics, Michael assumed the relationship had been over for some time, and Donald just wouldn't let it go. 28:53.551 --> 28:56.454 [SPEAKER_01]: This was the night Donald followed Susan and went into her home. 28:56.874 --> 29:01.878 [SPEAKER_01]: Michael told Donald to leave and that was when the couple had that conversation where Donald was listening in. 29:02.459 --> 29:06.463 [SPEAKER_01]: Michael asked if Susan was scared of Donald and she was, scared for her life. 29:06.903 --> 29:11.787 [SPEAKER_01]: She told him how Donald said he would kill her for the relationship and kill himself because of a gambling issue. 29:12.848 --> 29:19.313 [SPEAKER_01]: Michael also heard that on the day of the shooting, Donald had given money to a friend, Nancy, saying it was for his children. 29:19.753 --> 29:23.376 [SPEAKER_01]: This led Michael to believe Donald had been planning on taking his life as well. 29:23.876 --> 29:31.742 [SPEAKER_01]: Michael hadn't known about Wade either, but after being told he said it made Susan's quote, twitchy behavior of the last month, make more sense. 29:32.563 --> 29:34.964 [SPEAKER_01]: Kathy Susan's daughter was also questioned. 29:35.384 --> 29:42.688 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have her exact info, so I'm not sure how old she was at the time, but it appears maybe a teen, but that's kind of a guess. 29:43.308 --> 29:49.231 [SPEAKER_01]: Speaking with detectives, Kathy said that she and her mother had seen the recently released thriller Fatal Attraction. 29:49.672 --> 29:55.895 [SPEAKER_01]: There were some similarities in the film to her life, leading Susan to tell Kathy that she was worried Donald might hurt her. 29:56.495 --> 29:59.182 [SPEAKER_01]: Kathy told her to get her will done just in case. 29:59.683 --> 30:02.931 [SPEAKER_01]: She had no idea her mother was sincerely fearing for her life. 30:04.386 --> 30:08.588 [SPEAKER_01]: Without details, Kathy did know of the relationship between her mother and Donald. 30:08.788 --> 30:13.631 [SPEAKER_01]: She knew they spoke on the phone three to four times a week and played golf together two or three times a week in the summer. 30:14.091 --> 30:17.813 [SPEAKER_01]: She also knew that Susan had tried to end things but Donald would not let her go. 30:18.373 --> 30:20.694 [SPEAKER_01]: She was aware of Donald's suicidal ideation. 30:21.134 --> 30:26.617 [SPEAKER_01]: A year before, Kathy and a friend were leaving the house when they saw a man lying on the grassy hill across the street. 30:27.157 --> 30:30.299 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan told them it was just Donald watching her every move. 30:31.219 --> 30:36.941 [SPEAKER_01]: Two months before her murder, Susan possibly in an effort to protect her daughter, told Kathy more details. 30:37.441 --> 30:43.083 [SPEAKER_01]: She explained how she was trying to end things, but he just wouldn't allow it, and so she continued to call him. 30:43.523 --> 30:47.244 [SPEAKER_01]: She knew Donald was stalking her and had asked him to get professional help. 30:47.965 --> 30:57.108 [SPEAKER_01]: Within weeks of the homicide, Susan and Kathy were in Vancouver, Washington, and they decided to drive by Donald's house, perhaps to see if he was home, who knows the reasoning. 30:57.808 --> 31:01.172 [SPEAKER_01]: As they drove through his neighborhood, Donald passed them in his vehicle. 31:01.633 --> 31:03.815 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan was shaken and upset at the sight of him. 31:04.156 --> 31:10.784 [SPEAKER_01]: The two went home and after they did, Donald called their home, demanding to know why Susan was there and who was in the car with her. 31:11.244 --> 31:14.428 [SPEAKER_01]: He threw out the names of other possible lovers, even weighed. 31:14.969 --> 31:16.410 [SPEAKER_01]: But Susan did not answer him. 31:17.572 --> 31:21.436 [SPEAKER_01]: A fellow employee and friend outside of work, Dennis Shabbata, was questioned. 31:21.676 --> 31:24.739 [SPEAKER_01]: He had known about the relationship with Donald nearly from the start. 31:25.180 --> 31:31.446 [SPEAKER_01]: According to what Susan told Dennis, there had been something missing in the relationship with Michael, so she and Donald were having sex. 31:32.007 --> 31:37.533 [SPEAKER_01]: Naturally, the two began enjoying each other's company outside of the bedroom and the relationship was meeting their needs. 31:38.053 --> 31:48.177 [SPEAKER_01]: Dennis struggled as he was friends with Michael, but since he didn't feel it was his place to tell him anything, and the guilt made it harder to be around him, Dennis distanced himself from the couple. 31:49.198 --> 31:54.060 [SPEAKER_01]: Two months prior, Susan told Dennis about the fight with Donald, during which he threatened to hurt her. 31:54.560 --> 31:57.662 [SPEAKER_01]: She was scared, and Dennis offered to help in any way he could. 31:58.162 --> 32:00.723 [SPEAKER_01]: He too was informed of the day the couple went golfing. 32:01.183 --> 32:05.108 [SPEAKER_01]: Apparently, that argument stemmed from how friendly she had been to the other golfers. 32:05.468 --> 32:11.355 [SPEAKER_01]: Her polite behavior was interpreted as flirting by Donald, and he was so mad, she thought he might hurt her. 32:11.835 --> 32:15.099 [SPEAKER_01]: Not that the cycle of jealousy in arguments was anything new for the two of them. 32:16.298 --> 32:20.000 [SPEAKER_01]: Two weeks later, Dennis was filled in on Donald's extensive stocking. 32:20.321 --> 32:22.842 [SPEAKER_01]: Dennis asked if Michael was aware of the situation. 32:23.403 --> 32:30.167 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what his response was, but we know Michael hadn't been told from Donald yet, so we know that he didn't know. 32:30.907 --> 32:33.429 [SPEAKER_01]: Their final conversation was a week before the murder. 32:33.809 --> 32:39.073 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan told Dennis that she was still scared, but everything seemed to be calm for the moment. 32:39.673 --> 32:45.221 [SPEAKER_01]: Dennis felt the main underlying issue was that Donald wanted Susan to himself, but she wouldn't leave Michael. 32:45.661 --> 32:47.344 [SPEAKER_01]: That was just his interpretation. 32:47.904 --> 32:56.076 [SPEAKER_01]: Both Dennis and Susan were getting to be so concerned they had a conversation about making a plan to get away if Donald should ever get his hands on a gun. 32:57.318 --> 32:59.919 [SPEAKER_01]: Dennis was asked about any other relationships at work. 33:00.479 --> 33:04.620 [SPEAKER_01]: Dennis, Susan, and Wade had started working together for the last three months. 33:05.080 --> 33:11.581 [SPEAKER_01]: During that time, Dennis did notice some chemistry between the other two, and there had been rumors swirling, but Susan denied anything. 33:12.121 --> 33:16.683 [SPEAKER_01]: He had recently been informed of the deal with Wade thanks to Cheryl calling him to talk about it. 33:17.103 --> 33:19.723 [SPEAKER_01]: That allowed Susan to open up to Dennis about Wade. 33:20.083 --> 33:25.145 [SPEAKER_01]: She told him about the time that she and Wade were out having a late breakfast when Donald followed them, 33:27.785 --> 33:30.046 [SPEAKER_01]: Even Dennis had been on Donald's radar at one point. 33:30.406 --> 33:34.047 [SPEAKER_01]: It was 1984 when Donald accused Dennis of having an affair with Susan. 33:34.507 --> 33:37.969 [SPEAKER_01]: He told him the truth, the most they'd ever done together was have lunch. 33:38.869 --> 33:41.990 [SPEAKER_01]: Next on the interview list was Nancy and Mike Wilders. 33:42.410 --> 33:46.632 [SPEAKER_01]: They were couple friends with Susan and Donald having known both of them for years. 33:47.112 --> 33:50.273 [SPEAKER_01]: They knew of Donald's issues with gambling and suicidal ideation. 33:50.873 --> 33:55.676 [SPEAKER_01]: Once he had even shown them a note that he had written and playing his gambling had something to do with his behaviors. 33:56.296 --> 34:03.640 [SPEAKER_01]: The group came together to help Donald by getting him into gamblers anonymous, and in two years he had gained control of his addiction and got a new job. 34:04.301 --> 34:09.223 [SPEAKER_01]: Mike and Nancy knew Donald and Susan were often on hot and cold, but they always got back together. 34:09.704 --> 34:13.626 [SPEAKER_01]: They also knew that for the last couple of years Susan had been trying to get out of the relationship. 34:14.106 --> 34:17.668 [SPEAKER_01]: They knew of the breakup and the continued phone calls because he quote, 34:20.025 --> 34:25.326 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan confided in Nancy that she wanted space from Donald but feared he would outher to Michael. 34:25.806 --> 34:34.488 [SPEAKER_01]: Nancy knew of the stocking and obsession, how Donald had stopped going to work recently, whether that was based on performance or to open up a schedule to stock Susan all day. 34:35.008 --> 34:35.448 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't know. 34:36.128 --> 34:41.629 [SPEAKER_01]: At one point Donald told the couple he had spent $1,500 on a private investigator to follow Susan. 34:42.229 --> 34:47.970 [SPEAKER_01]: Seeing as he didn't have those kinds of funds, they knew that he was just using his car and doing the following himself. 34:48.892 --> 34:51.934 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald went to Nancy and Mike's house the Saturday before the murder. 34:52.334 --> 34:55.095 [SPEAKER_01]: He was unshaven, his hair was an unkempt mess. 34:55.575 --> 34:57.837 [SPEAKER_01]: He looked terrible and they knew something was wrong. 34:58.437 --> 35:03.319 [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't just that he looked unwell, but him not taking care of his appearance was a big red flag. 35:03.780 --> 35:05.741 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald was prideful about his looks. 35:06.181 --> 35:12.364 [SPEAKER_01]: He told Nancy, his bills were all paid and everything was in order and that he hadn't been eating because he didn't have any food in his house. 35:12.844 --> 35:15.566 [SPEAKER_01]: All of which sounded like he was contemplating taking his life. 35:16.307 --> 35:18.629 [SPEAKER_01]: Nancy contacted Susan on 1 November. 35:18.989 --> 35:23.793 [SPEAKER_01]: She told Susan how Donald had come by their house on Halloween, but it was just too hectic to speak with him. 35:24.253 --> 35:27.356 [SPEAKER_01]: She also told of his appearance and her concerns for his well-being. 35:27.556 --> 35:31.219 [SPEAKER_01]: She wanted Susan not to do anything after work to just go straight home. 35:31.759 --> 35:33.000 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan agreed to be careful. 35:33.321 --> 35:34.402 [SPEAKER_01]: She too was scared. 35:35.182 --> 35:41.025 [SPEAKER_01]: A few days later, Donald told Nancy and Mike how he had followed Susan to the red steer and that he had called Michael the Tattle. 35:41.525 --> 35:43.526 [SPEAKER_01]: They begged their friend to forget Susan. 35:43.586 --> 35:46.627 [SPEAKER_01]: She wasn't worth whatever all of this was he was doing. 35:47.287 --> 35:52.169 [SPEAKER_01]: He was getting better with his gambling and he needed to get back to work and just leave her behind. 35:52.809 --> 35:55.791 [SPEAKER_01]: Mike even tried to get Donald an appointment with a psychiatrist. 35:56.271 --> 35:58.912 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald said he'd take care of it himself and that was that. 35:59.432 --> 36:03.474 [SPEAKER_01]: On the day of the homicide, Susan called Nancy and told her how bad things were getting. 36:04.054 --> 36:12.556 [SPEAKER_01]: Nancy told her not to leave work alone to have someone come to get her, Susan assured her that her co-workers knew what was going on and that they would help to keep her safe. 36:13.416 --> 36:16.377 [SPEAKER_01]: Before he attacked Susan, Donald went to Nancy and Mike's house. 36:16.857 --> 36:19.658 [SPEAKER_01]: Nancy said he was crazy and it was getting worse. 36:20.198 --> 36:23.778 [SPEAKER_01]: He said it was Susan who was making him that way and she had possessed him. 36:24.299 --> 36:29.740 [SPEAKER_01]: Nancy tried to make him understand that it was his own response to her that was making him crazy, but he wouldn't hear her. 36:30.580 --> 36:40.546 [SPEAKER_01]: This was when he went into the kitchen, counted out $2,000 and gave it to Nancy crying as he said it was money for his daughters because he would be going away and no one would see him anymore. 36:41.266 --> 36:47.830 [SPEAKER_01]: Before leaving Donald said that he reported himself to an officer, but first he was going to make Susan hurt and squirm. 36:48.451 --> 36:50.392 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan would simply have to speak with him. 36:50.852 --> 36:55.455 [SPEAKER_01]: When Nancy asked how he was going to force the issue, he said he would probably stand in front of her car. 36:56.115 --> 37:00.723 [SPEAKER_01]: Nancy told him Susan would have someone with her for protection, so that wasn't going to work. 37:01.204 --> 37:01.805 [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't care. 37:02.085 --> 37:02.767 [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't listen. 37:03.127 --> 37:05.852 [SPEAKER_01]: He just looked at his list of topics to discuss with Susan. 37:06.896 --> 37:16.298 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald knew all of Nancy's concerns were invalid as he claimed to have spoken with the psychiatrist at OHSU, which is the Oregon Health Sciences University in just the last year too. 37:16.858 --> 37:24.780 [SPEAKER_01]: And he said he told the doctor what was going on in his life and that the doctor said Donald was, quote, acting acceptably under the circumstances. 37:25.160 --> 37:29.181 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, it was Susan who was using him and living life on the edge. 37:29.841 --> 37:31.142 [SPEAKER_00]: What was the name of this doctor? 37:37.463 --> 37:39.964 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I don't think he actually talked to a psychiatrist. 37:40.304 --> 37:40.865 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know what? 37:40.885 --> 37:41.745 [SPEAKER_01]: You should stalk her. 37:41.785 --> 37:42.585 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good point. 37:42.665 --> 37:43.886 [SPEAKER_01]: She's the one ruining your life. 37:44.346 --> 37:45.406 [SPEAKER_01]: He agreed with me! 37:47.187 --> 37:49.848 [SPEAKER_01]: Detectives asked Nancy and Mike about Donald and guns. 37:50.388 --> 37:55.871 [SPEAKER_01]: They had discussed the topic before everything happened, and they really didn't think he would go so far as to get one. 37:56.311 --> 38:00.192 [SPEAKER_01]: They knew he had failed to qualify with a rifle when he was in the national guard. 38:00.633 --> 38:04.254 [SPEAKER_01]: They thought the only reason he would get one would be to protect himself from Michael, 38:07.335 --> 38:11.538 [SPEAKER_01]: As for why any of this happened, Nancy and Mike knew it came down to jealousy. 38:11.878 --> 38:18.802 [SPEAKER_01]: Through the years, Donald had been jealous of both Dennis and Mike, neither of whom had any kind of relationship out of friendship with Susan. 38:19.543 --> 38:24.205 [SPEAKER_01]: Finally, Detective spoke with Wade, Susan's co-worker and most recent supposed fling. 38:24.726 --> 38:33.151 [SPEAKER_01]: The detectives and Wade met at Wattel's restaurant, which if you've been around Portland for a while, you were lucky enough to eat there, or at the very least, you know of their signage, 38:33.571 --> 38:37.752 [SPEAKER_01]: with the bibbed duckling and extra large clock next to the i5 at Janssen Beach. 38:38.052 --> 38:43.033 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, hey, whoa, you know, I think I mentioned this location earlier talking about where the hooters was. 38:43.053 --> 38:43.893 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure did. 38:43.933 --> 38:44.673 [SPEAKER_01]: It was right there, right? 38:44.933 --> 38:45.354 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. 38:45.994 --> 38:48.294 [SPEAKER_01]: Wade was asked about his relationship with Susan. 38:48.534 --> 38:53.555 [SPEAKER_01]: He said he had known her for about eight years, but only learned of the situation with Donald in the last two months. 38:54.255 --> 38:57.656 [SPEAKER_01]: Wade described his relationship with Susan as very good friends. 38:58.076 --> 39:01.277 [SPEAKER_01]: He cared a lot for her, maybe too much, given the circumstances. 39:01.898 --> 39:07.058 [SPEAKER_01]: But they weren't in a physical relationship because she told him, don't give in. 39:07.818 --> 39:09.959 [SPEAKER_01]: She didn't want to break up his family. 39:10.499 --> 39:14.641 [SPEAKER_01]: Their conversations were often about why they needed to keep from getting involved with one another. 39:15.181 --> 39:19.083 [SPEAKER_01]: Katherine said Susan told her she and weighed had mutual crushes on each other. 39:19.923 --> 39:24.405 [SPEAKER_01]: So I found that pretty surprising that according to Wade, they weren't physical. 39:24.745 --> 39:25.446 [SPEAKER_01]: It's unexpected. 39:25.466 --> 39:35.850 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I don't know if Susan even confirmed that with anyone or maybe alluded to that they really liked each other, but she did tell her daughter like, oh wait, and I have crushes on each other. 39:35.990 --> 39:44.777 [SPEAKER_00]: When a story is like this, and there's all that stuff going on, all these sorts of chaotic things, you don't often think of their mature conversation springing from that. 39:44.837 --> 39:47.239 [SPEAKER_00]: Usually they're just like, yeah, and then we did it. 39:47.259 --> 39:47.900 [SPEAKER_00]: We like each other. 39:48.040 --> 39:49.481 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she's like, no, you're married. 39:49.521 --> 39:54.545 [SPEAKER_01]: I've been through this with Donald and his ex, like, none of no, you have to figure your stuff out. 39:54.565 --> 39:56.807 [SPEAKER_00]: So, she's not going to solve his problem. 39:56.907 --> 39:57.428 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 39:57.768 --> 40:07.520 [SPEAKER_01]: And I also like it because if the story had been done however many years ago, it'd be easy for someone to imply blame on her. 40:08.161 --> 40:10.283 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you're just screwing everybody at that rail yard. 40:10.464 --> 40:12.987 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, no, context. 40:13.748 --> 40:17.232 [SPEAKER_00]: And also, it's fine to screw someone at that rail yard. 40:17.452 --> 40:18.213 [SPEAKER_01]: That is not. 40:18.573 --> 40:22.295 [SPEAKER_01]: You do not go to court and get the death penalty for having a good time. 40:22.375 --> 40:22.575 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 40:22.816 --> 40:23.116 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 40:23.996 --> 40:28.600 [SPEAKER_01]: So yes, I wanted to clarify she in Wade were not physical at least according to Wade. 40:28.800 --> 40:35.864 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, that could be him saving his ass from his wife finding out or something, but it all seemed legit. 40:36.004 --> 40:36.445 [SPEAKER_01]: That's nice. 40:36.725 --> 40:38.166 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like she liked him enough to not do that. 40:38.720 --> 40:42.426 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, something's just like we're very good friends and we really like each other. 40:42.446 --> 40:43.828 [SPEAKER_00]: Why fuck this up? 40:43.948 --> 40:48.835 [SPEAKER_01]: And you also can screw whoever you want without being killed, consenting adult without being killed. 40:49.756 --> 40:50.097 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 40:51.455 --> 40:58.857 [SPEAKER_01]: Wade and Susan were at work when she said she was scared of Donald and that they had been in a relationship she called a shallow thing for seven years. 40:59.377 --> 41:02.278 [SPEAKER_01]: She was only still involved because he couldn't handle being dumped. 41:02.718 --> 41:07.559 [SPEAKER_01]: She cared about him and wasn't trying to hurt him, but he was so damn possessive and jealous. 41:08.039 --> 41:10.199 [SPEAKER_01]: She wanted to leave, but he threatened to kill her. 41:10.539 --> 41:14.040 [SPEAKER_01]: She didn't know how to keep him from being hurt while getting away with her own life. 41:14.640 --> 41:19.642 [SPEAKER_01]: Wade recommended she end things sooner rather than later and that Michael should know so he could 41:21.883 --> 41:27.395 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan wished that if Donald was going to take his own life, he would just get it over with and stop torturing her. 41:28.863 --> 41:36.926 [SPEAKER_01]: During their time working together, Susan would talk about Donald Freaking out, behave your she would point out as to why the relationship was failing, and he would apologize. 41:37.406 --> 41:38.287 [SPEAKER_01]: That was their cycle. 41:39.527 --> 41:45.469 [SPEAKER_01]: After the weekend, when Michael was called, Susan reported that she had spoken to police about getting a restraining order. 41:46.089 --> 41:55.513 [SPEAKER_01]: She claimed the DA said that she did not qualify for one unless she and the perpetrator were married, had had a child, or for a third reason that Wade couldn't remember. 41:55.913 --> 42:06.516 [SPEAKER_01]: So yes, she did go to the police about this, tried to get it, the magical paper that doesn't really stop anything, but at least it's documented, and they're like, no, you're not close enough. 42:07.877 --> 42:10.578 [SPEAKER_01]: The day before she was killed, Susan spoke with Wade. 42:10.858 --> 42:13.759 [SPEAKER_01]: She expressed concern feeling like she was always being watched. 42:14.039 --> 42:15.959 [SPEAKER_01]: She was literally looking over her shoulder. 42:16.360 --> 42:22.882 [SPEAKER_01]: She was worried Donald would catch her in Wade's spending time together, which would only make things worse for everyone, including Wade's 42:23.942 --> 42:31.605 [SPEAKER_01]: They made plans to see each other the next day when Wade was going to help her sell a deceased and very groovy neighbor's hot tub and waterbed. 42:32.086 --> 42:36.448 [SPEAKER_01]: Before they parted for the day, she told Wade that Donald's quote scares me real bad. 42:37.508 --> 42:41.530 [SPEAKER_01]: On Wednesday the fourth Wade meant Susan at the neighbor's house and measured the bed in tub. 42:41.990 --> 42:48.413 [SPEAKER_01]: He was only at her home briefly as she was scared that he would be spotted by that time Donald had threatened to kill her at least twice. 42:48.933 --> 42:53.937 [SPEAKER_01]: Now that Michael knew of the affair, Wade wanted Susan to tell him everything so he could take it seriously. 42:54.537 --> 42:58.821 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan had been telling friends about everything, but Wade and Dennis were only around at work. 42:59.241 --> 43:00.562 [SPEAKER_01]: Michael could be around more. 43:00.782 --> 43:03.384 [SPEAKER_01]: He needed to know the severity of the stalking in the threats. 43:04.145 --> 43:07.828 [SPEAKER_01]: In an attempt to help quail everything, Wade offered to speak with Donald himself. 43:08.408 --> 43:09.289 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan wouldn't let him. 43:09.789 --> 43:12.831 [SPEAKER_01]: She had been through a divorce and didn't want to break up his home. 43:13.332 --> 43:16.955 [SPEAKER_01]: If he involved himself, it could endanger him and or his family. 43:17.913 --> 43:19.894 [SPEAKER_01]: Wade asked about her relationship with Michael. 43:20.134 --> 43:23.836 [SPEAKER_01]: She explained the relationship was better, but for her it was a matter of convenience. 43:24.036 --> 43:26.638 [SPEAKER_01]: She just wanted to be friends with him, not as a couple. 43:27.358 --> 43:32.581 [SPEAKER_01]: Another reason she didn't want Wade to speak with Donald was that she knew it would be more successful to talk to a wall. 43:33.081 --> 43:39.065 [SPEAKER_01]: Donald was a shallow thinker, according to Susan, and she knew he couldn't think with reason or beyond the present. 43:39.485 --> 43:42.567 [SPEAKER_01]: She wanted to stay friends with him, but she knew it wouldn't be possible. 43:43.147 --> 43:47.931 [SPEAKER_01]: Talking this out with Wade, she realized she actually hated Donald for what he had done to her in her life. 43:48.351 --> 43:53.235 [SPEAKER_01]: He destroyed the relationship and now their life was dictated by his threats and unstable behavior. 43:53.916 --> 43:56.698 [SPEAKER_01]: In the end, Wade said she couldn't get away from him. 43:57.118 --> 43:57.618 [SPEAKER_01]: She tried. 43:58.479 --> 43:59.279 [SPEAKER_01]: tried she had. 43:59.720 --> 44:00.940 [SPEAKER_01]: She told him they were over. 44:01.080 --> 44:02.881 [SPEAKER_01]: She said she never wanted to see him again. 44:03.181 --> 44:06.423 [SPEAKER_01]: She tried to handle the situation in a way that wouldn't hurt his feelings. 44:06.923 --> 44:09.864 [SPEAKER_01]: She told him she was scared and that he needed professional help. 44:10.164 --> 44:11.445 [SPEAKER_01]: His friends told him the same. 44:11.865 --> 44:14.746 [SPEAKER_01]: She told everyone in her life she was being threatened and stopped. 44:15.107 --> 44:16.807 [SPEAKER_01]: She attempted to get a restraining order. 44:16.847 --> 44:21.930 [SPEAKER_01]: She tried to keep herself safe while continuing to live her life unburdened by the madness of a jealous man. 44:22.630 --> 44:26.512 [SPEAKER_01]: Her relationship status didn't matter and it doesn't matter that she was cheating on Michael. 44:26.812 --> 44:28.753 [SPEAKER_01]: She was allowed to live her life as she saw fit. 44:29.274 --> 44:31.775 [SPEAKER_01]: An insecure, unwell man shouldn't affect that. 44:32.476 --> 44:40.360 [SPEAKER_01]: Since Donald was arrested at the scene and everyone in the orbit of the former couple knew about his dangerous behaviors, it seemed to be a pretty open and shut case. 44:40.880 --> 44:47.344 [SPEAKER_01]: In March 1988, four months after Susan's life was taken, the jury took two hours to come back with a guilty verdict. 44:48.004 --> 44:50.325 [SPEAKER_01]: The following month a judge handed down the sentence. 44:50.765 --> 45:01.351 [SPEAKER_01]: There were recommendations for 10 years, but the judge thankfully was not having it, saying Susan could have easily had 30 to 35 more years of life ahead of her, but they were taken by Donald. 45:01.751 --> 45:06.473 [SPEAKER_01]: With that, the 46-year-old was sentenced to 15 years to life. 45:07.314 --> 45:13.197 [SPEAKER_01]: So, good judge gavel because they went above the 10 years, and that was probably like a forced recommendation. 45:14.873 --> 45:20.696 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, here's where we might have to cliffhanger because we only have a week till the episode comes out and I don't have answers. 45:21.396 --> 45:29.139 [SPEAKER_01]: I have been digging and digging and records requesting and newspaper searching and every kind of everything you could imagine. 45:30.220 --> 45:34.342 [SPEAKER_01]: And I have no idea where Donald Vendetta is. 45:35.402 --> 45:42.688 [SPEAKER_01]: He does not come up in the Oregon offender search, so I think he is out or was released or is deceased. 45:43.469 --> 45:50.014 [SPEAKER_01]: I then wrote Oregon Corrections and they said that this would be a clackamous communications issue. 45:50.274 --> 45:51.114 [SPEAKER_01]: So I wrote them. 45:51.415 --> 45:53.857 [SPEAKER_01]: They redirected me to a different record search. 45:54.697 --> 46:00.342 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's been several weeks, and I'm still waiting to hear the status of Donald Ventata. 46:01.062 --> 46:11.148 [SPEAKER_01]: So, as of right now, I don't think he is still in the system, meaning our friend Sarah who wrote us wouldn't have to be going to parole hearings. 46:12.149 --> 46:18.513 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope it doesn't mean he was parole, given his age and the fact that he was in prison for quite some time. 46:19.513 --> 46:26.417 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he's just deceased and no one has to think or worry about him ever again, which would be the most ideal situation. 46:26.478 --> 46:26.998 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's hope so. 46:27.760 --> 46:31.122 [SPEAKER_01]: So as we record this, we do not have an answer yet. 46:32.243 --> 46:35.544 [SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully we'll have one soon and we can just delete this and not think about it. 46:36.325 --> 46:43.749 [SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, this will still be here and we will just have to wait for our next update to know what has happened to Donald Vinteta. 46:45.593 --> 46:48.975 [SPEAKER_01]: Before she was a murder victim, Susan or Sue was a person. 46:49.275 --> 46:51.237 [SPEAKER_01]: And high school, she was in the pep club. 46:51.717 --> 46:58.281 [SPEAKER_01]: In band was a camp counselor, was on the drill team in the French club, played on the golf volleyball and softball teams. 46:58.801 --> 47:04.925 [SPEAKER_01]: And she was a member of the, yes, this is real as my mother can attest the trampoline team. 47:05.305 --> 47:06.426 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, bouncy lady. 47:06.886 --> 47:07.627 [SPEAKER_00]: It was very groovy. 47:08.482 --> 47:11.525 [SPEAKER_01]: Susan was a mother, a sister, and loved by her family. 47:11.885 --> 47:16.269 [SPEAKER_01]: If her great niece hadn't written us, we wouldn't have even known of her or her case. 47:16.910 --> 47:21.834 [SPEAKER_01]: When it comes to abusive relationships, uninformed people often say, why didn't she just leave? 47:22.375 --> 47:25.458 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Susan is a perfect example of why. 47:25.938 --> 47:26.979 [SPEAKER_01]: She tried to leave. 47:27.159 --> 47:28.200 [SPEAKER_01]: She told him no. 47:28.661 --> 47:30.602 [SPEAKER_01]: She still lost her life to her abuser. 47:31.363 --> 47:51.728 [SPEAKER_01]: If you or anyone you know are dealing with an abusive situation, you can always visit the hotline.org or you can call 1-800-799-7233 or you can text start to 8-8-788 to get help from professionals at the National Domestic Abuse Hotline. 47:52.188 --> 47:54.809 [SPEAKER_01]: You are not alone and there are compassionate people who 47:58.912 --> 48:02.054 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you again to Sarah for bringing Susan's story to our attention. 48:02.234 --> 48:06.656 [SPEAKER_01]: It was an honor to help you learn about your loved one and to share her story with others. 48:14.620 --> 48:16.381 [SPEAKER_00]: It's meaty and delicious. 48:16.721 --> 48:18.462 [SPEAKER_01]: It'll like baloney. 48:19.083 --> 48:19.643 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm. 48:20.383 --> 48:21.544 [SPEAKER_01]: What meat is baloney? 48:21.604 --> 48:22.884 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it just flat hot dogs? 48:23.645 --> 48:28.227 [SPEAKER_01]: I believe it's sort of like the beer story you told me earlier. 48:28.287 --> 48:29.768 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just whatever's left in the pipes. 48:29.968 --> 48:32.049 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, hot dogs, like like netty light. 48:32.289 --> 48:35.051 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think they make hot dogs and then they have a roller? 48:36.051 --> 48:37.032 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's how they get baloney. 48:37.212 --> 48:39.213 [SPEAKER_00]: I think baloney is a giant hot dog. 48:39.533 --> 48:40.514 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm saying. 48:40.694 --> 48:41.634 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you didn't say that, though. 48:41.654 --> 48:42.255 [SPEAKER_00]: Really? 48:42.275 --> 48:42.995 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know what you meant. 48:43.235 --> 48:43.555 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you did? 48:43.675 --> 48:43.855 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 48:44.636 --> 48:48.618 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you get like a laundry roller and you put the hot dogs in and that's how you get a slice of baloney. 48:49.591 --> 48:51.573 [SPEAKER_00]: I want, oh, see, you're flattening the hot dogs? 48:52.413 --> 48:53.594 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, I don't think you're understanding. 48:53.614 --> 48:56.737 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying it's a, it's a, it's a miles long snake of baloney. 48:56.757 --> 49:13.231 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I, I, I, I, I miles long, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I 49:17.653 --> 49:27.016 [SPEAKER_00]: Snaking through the countryside has a cheddar cheese filling so fleshy, so flaccidly, so pink and shiny or beige and shiny. 49:27.036 --> 49:28.197 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what color's the hot dog. 49:29.937 --> 49:30.638 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hot dog. 49:30.698 --> 49:32.618 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh the phone lines are lightening up on this question. 49:32.678 --> 49:33.258 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 49:36.139 --> 49:37.480 [SPEAKER_00]: Debbie, line two, you think it's brown? 49:37.780 --> 49:39.341 [SPEAKER_01]: I think hot dogs are brown. 49:39.361 --> 49:40.561 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much. 49:41.041 --> 49:42.082 [SPEAKER_00]: Vinny, line one. 49:42.342 --> 49:43.922 [SPEAKER_01]: Hot dogs are hot dogs. 49:43.962 --> 49:45.063 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't have a color. 49:45.123 --> 49:46.183 [SPEAKER_01]: They're hot dog color. 49:46.656 --> 49:48.117 [SPEAKER_00]: Caroline, line two. 49:48.378 --> 49:50.459 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like heart doubts very much. 49:50.600 --> 49:51.560 [SPEAKER_01]: I prefer balloony. 49:53.302 --> 49:53.923 [SPEAKER_00]: I was telling you. 49:54.083 --> 49:54.323 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 49:54.363 --> 49:56.165 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just a little silly, good hack. 49:57.346 --> 50:03.371 [SPEAKER_00]: But the way that you're describing and laying, everything out is like making a very clear amount of pictures. 50:03.431 --> 50:03.711 [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome. 50:03.972 --> 50:04.392 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 50:04.452 --> 50:05.053 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's good. 50:05.633 --> 50:06.154 [SPEAKER_00]: Great. 50:07.194 --> 50:08.115 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry about the compliment. 50:08.135 --> 50:08.456 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 50:09.436 --> 50:10.738 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god. 50:11.788 --> 50:13.869 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a adult daughter dad. 50:14.069 --> 50:14.729 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, gross. 50:15.889 --> 50:16.909 [SPEAKER_00]: Adult girl dad. 50:17.089 --> 50:18.270 [SPEAKER_00]: How about that girl dad? 50:18.310 --> 50:19.770 [SPEAKER_00]: She's a grown-up girl. 50:19.870 --> 50:21.190 [SPEAKER_00]: She has her own children. 50:23.231 --> 50:25.251 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a boy in girl granddad. 50:26.231 --> 50:27.212 [SPEAKER_00]: You're bad at this. 50:27.352 --> 50:27.972 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. 50:28.152 --> 50:30.673 [SPEAKER_01]: The hack may I continue. 50:31.453 --> 50:32.453 [SPEAKER_01]: If you must. 50:33.753 --> 50:37.254 [SPEAKER_00]: I believe that every Susan has a friend named Cheryl. 50:37.694 --> 50:38.834 [SPEAKER_01]: It's required by law. 50:39.935 --> 50:40.215 [SPEAKER_01]: The men. 50:42.966 --> 50:43.826 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I will. 50:43.906 --> 50:44.727 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I will. 50:44.767 --> 50:46.187 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I will. 50:46.307 --> 50:48.589 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, go ahead. 50:50.009 --> 50:50.230 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 50:50.390 --> 50:51.610 [SPEAKER_00]: I had a score to be for you. 50:52.371 --> 50:53.671 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I did. 50:53.691 --> 50:55.532 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it worth into your shorts? 50:56.753 --> 50:57.433 [SPEAKER_00]: What did you hear it? 50:57.934 --> 50:58.314 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 50:59.715 --> 51:00.495 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sorry. 51:00.515 --> 51:01.115 [SPEAKER_00]: I did that in here. 51:01.135 --> 51:04.917 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm starting to have a feeling it may be should have not have been done in a close space. 51:05.158 --> 51:06.538 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a bad idea. 51:06.638 --> 51:09.380 [SPEAKER_00]: But we're safe. 51:10.523 --> 51:11.043 [SPEAKER_01]: Sit on it. 51:11.544 --> 51:12.164 [SPEAKER_01]: I am. 51:12.364 --> 51:13.405 [SPEAKER_01]: Keep it secret. 51:13.425 --> 51:14.025 [SPEAKER_01]: Keep it safe. 51:14.905 --> 51:16.046 [SPEAKER_00]: If we learn about Donald. 51:16.126 --> 51:24.050 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I so hope there's an update and I hope it's RIP bitch if I have to I will go to the governor 51:38.646 --> 51:39.779 [UNKNOWN]: Thanks for watching!