[SPEAKER_01]: Consequence Podcast Network
[SPEAKER_00]: Boy, hey, iconic army.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, hey.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have just some little bits of BTS news.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the biggest thing that happened recently is all of the concerts that happened in Arlington and one of the Yibo's viral moments is Jim and went over and kissed a young fan, kind of like on the cheek on the side of her face.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was so precious and so sweet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Her response is just like so endearing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got a kiss, I got a kiss, I got a kiss, I got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss, got a kiss
[SPEAKER_00]: Jim in for recognizing them and like coming over to them and making their concert extra special just shows who Jim in is as a person too and we love him, we love her, it was just such a really wonderful fan moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: While I got an unforgettable moment for her and I'm sure for him too and just
[SPEAKER_01]: to be able to provide the space for young children, fighting cancer, to attend a concert, you know, a BTS concert, and to also just make it such a memorable, amazing night.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's just so special and so wonderful.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a special.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw a bunch of photos of like all of the families and the young kids that get to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so just how wonderful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So another thing that is recently been announced, there's been in recent news.
[SPEAKER_00]: is Taehyung kind of talked with fans a little bit and shared what he's been going through and he shared with us that he's had hearing loss in his left ear up to about like 30 percent and he noticed that his hearing started to diminish while he was serving in the Korean military and this is just like heart breaking to hear because he's a singer and a musician and to be musical you know he has to depend a lot on your
[SPEAKER_00]: year and you're hearing to be able to do what you do.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the fact that he's going through this is so tough, I have to imagine like not only impacting his everyday life, but like his ability to perform and stuff like, we would never know, but now that it's where it has gotten out, there's all these videos resurfacing of him on tour and like members saying something to him and then he's having to like
[SPEAKER_00]: turn his head and show his, you know, give, listen through his other ear because his left ear has had this hearing loss.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just so sad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope he gets better.
[SPEAKER_00]: He says he's going through treatment for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I hope that he gets some hearing mark and like prevents any kind of further hearing loss.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: How's that?
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like he's so young to be going through that substantial amount of hearing loss, and it makes me feel really bad for him, especially like you were saying, considering his career, considering his vocation and life, even I'm just thinking about like during a concert where they're wearing the in-ears.
[SPEAKER_01]: to let them know where they're out in a song or what the cues are, whatever, if he can only hear out of one ear, you know, it can make it tough to, you know, he might like misacute or something like that of course he hasn't, but like, you know, that I'm sure that could be a concern for him that might happen further down the line.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's really sad that he's going through that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know, uh, hopefully he ends up getting better, or at least, no further.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm so sorry, but just, uh, just feel for him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the other thing that I really wanted to talk about for our intro here is, I want to give a shout out to my coworker, Pamela, who just attended her first BTS concert ever in Arlington, day one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Amazing, you got to Pamela, she went with her husband, Jessie, just them too and it's so interesting because Jessie actually was the one who discovered BTS and I think that's so sweet and they actually really got into BTS through Ron BTS, like the variety show instead of just the music.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like they bonded over and they've got three boys and all the
[SPEAKER_01]: boys also love BTS.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were a little invious that Pam and her husband got to go to the concert.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she's like, we got to go again with the boys, you know, but tickets were so hard to get and they were like, so excited to travel all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just glad it was them that went.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, yeah, I think they're planning on taking their boys next time.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, like what amazing family bonding that they all just like watch run BTS together and they love their
[SPEAKER_00]: Shout out to Pamela.
[SPEAKER_00]: She had a really wonderful time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll see her tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whenever you're like, when you first started this job and you found out that Pamela was into BTS and then you guys could bond over and talk about it, I just thought that was so cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is rare that in your professional life you come across somebody that is also, I've never come across someone else who's also a BTS fan.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just think it's so cool and I'm so happy that she got to go and her husband got to go with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: like she's can you imagine like she's gonna want to go to every BTS concert now especially like after this concert and yeah like you yeah yeah totally well that's our little intro here but today we can't help but to continue the Grammy discussion they're still more to talk about yeah yes
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back, where you're hosts, I'm Kayla.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Bethany, and this is Standing BTS.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your favorite informative fan-girl podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, today we're going to hang out for about an hour, and we're kind of continuing with our Grammy discussion from our last episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only reason being is that there's been new news circulating around just some reconsiderations around the best Asian pop category after BTS have
[SPEAKER_00]: chosen to not submit this year for the Grammys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think last episode, we were like, oh, we could talk about this for another hour, you know, if we wanted to, but we weren't really expecting to do that, but just with this new reconsideration coming about, it just peaked our interest a little bit and we wanted to dive a little bit more into it and discuss our thoughts on what they're saying now and see, you know, we're just curious where it's gonna take us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Before we get into today's episode, we do want to say thank you so much Iconics for being here and for all of your support if you'd like to support us even further, you could consider joining us on Patreon at patreon.com slash standing BTS.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thank you for being here for all of your support and of course for listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so let's go ahead and get into this discussion about the Grammys and about that they are now reconsidering the best Asian pop category.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got some of these quotes from a Rolling Stone article that we will link in the episode description.
[SPEAKER_01]: But
[SPEAKER_01]: Harvey Mason Jr.
[SPEAKER_01]: Initially, as you all know, defended the best Asian pop category on his social media with a very PR curated statement, but new conversations with stakeholders appear to have changed his mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: So on August 14th, he shared a new statement and we're going to quote it and then we're going to kind of break it down for you all.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he said, the Grammy organization exists to serve all music people, and part of that is working to ensure that no voice or community gets overlooked or misunderstood.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's clear from our numerous conversations with many stakeholders over the past two weeks that regardless of our intent and desire to be even more inclusive, there are some artists in this space who feel that it, that this category isn't representing the music they work so hard to create in the way that they wish.
[SPEAKER_01]: As a musician myself, I take that to heart.
[SPEAKER_01]: Over the past six years, the Academy has shown that it can act decisively and move swiftly to meet the needs of our music community.
[SPEAKER_01]: The management and board are committed to working together to keep pace with that progress and ensure the the musicians we intend to honor feel truly seen and heard by our actions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lots to unpack with this statement because I feel like there's so many points to kind of discuss, but one of the main things was like initially when you first sent this to me Kayla, the big question was, well, what are they reconsidering, what are they like,
[SPEAKER_00]: And the decisively and move swiftly to meet the needs of our music community.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have pretty much already discussed that like we can't imagine that BTS is going to change their mind about all of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like why are they?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just weird to see this kind of response so quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they just they just went from now like this was made to represent multiple artists and be more inclusive and all this stuff and like really defending it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, these stakeholders are having numerous conversations, and they want to reconsider some things and what's the intent?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it for specifically BTS, is it for K-pop, like, you know, I'm just kind of curious to see.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the next big question we had was, well, who are the stakeholders?
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're just going to dive a little bit into who the stakeholders are.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a board of trustees, officers that set norms and rules for the organization.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's four national officers, and then under that there are
[SPEAKER_00]: chapter boards in major cities around the U.S. including Los Angeles, Atlanta, New York, Washington, D.C. Chicago, and then there's like state boards as well, such as like Texas and Florida.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I saw this on their website, all I could think about when I heard these chapter boards being in these specific areas is just these being major U.S. stops for BTS's world tour.
[SPEAKER_00]: Los Angeles and like Arlington, Texas and Tampa, Florida and New York and Washington, these are like, what, these are just cities and areas of the U.S. that have been massively impacted by the world tour going on for the U.S. like BTS has brought massive crowds to these areas, have sold out their largest stadiums that only other artists like Taylor Swift can do,
[SPEAKER_00]: For sure, like one of the stars for the Grammys, I feel like, and they've been doing, not only if they just sold out these stadiums for this year, they've been doing it for many years.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just don't understand, and I don't know how these board members could be so blind and ignorant to the impact of BTS.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe these, like, stakeholders now are like,
[SPEAKER_00]: After hearing BTS' statement, now they're like, hold up huge oversight.
[SPEAKER_00]: How could we have done this?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I really don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: But one of the only things that I can think of is just that they're really not blind to it and rather they're like purposefully being inequitable and discriminatory to the group.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was talking to Cory about it and he's like, well, the grimmies are elitists.
[SPEAKER_00]: and I completely agree with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: They definitely have like their known for having a high standard, but because of that, they've become very exclusive and only allowing people of a certain demographic who meet whatever specific criteria that they've made up in their mind to continue to be in this very elite crowd, which has nothing really to do with musical talent or musical
[SPEAKER_00]: Whether or not they know their own biases and prejudice or whatever, it's just disappointing to see so many chapters, these board members agree upon, at least initially, the blatantly unfair treatment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do a musical group that has had such an impact on musical history?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, with all of this, of course, you still have to remember,
[SPEAKER_01]: that this award was created the same year that BTS returned from the military and it's so obviously created as like a here this is something that BTS can be part of instead of being part of the bigger, more prestigious awards that are in the ceremony.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I definitely agree with you that it's like
[SPEAKER_01]: an elitist group of individuals that, you know, like they want to keep the music and like the standard of it, very refined in their own opinion and in their norms and rules that within the organization are set.
[SPEAKER_01]: And those aren't necessarily things that are public info.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we don't know what those standards are.
[SPEAKER_01]: for deciding, but like we talked about last episode it really does seem like it's rooted in like a white supremacy stance like you're saying racism and blatant xenophobia of just not being willing to accept something that does not fit the like the cookie cutter criteria that they and I don't even want to say the word traditional because even traditional seems like white like it could just be replaced with that because that's what it
[SPEAKER_01]: feels like they are doing, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also like the stakeholders too.
[SPEAKER_01]: When I think about the stakeholders, I'm thinking about like Grammys advertisers and how a lot of people are talking about, well, the Grammys just wanted to use BTS reviews because their TV rates are declining so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the viewership has been on a massive decline over the past five years.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if BTS were up for an award, if they were attending, of course, you'd have Army all over the world tuning in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like that's great for, you know, selling ads.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great for the corporate partners.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great for, you know, the Grammys themselves on being able to say, like, look, we aren't losing popularity.
[SPEAKER_01]: We still have some credibility.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look how much viewership we have.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was just thinking about how they're I think they're like oh shit We're gonna have way less viewers.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got to do something now.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got to put out another story Investing and partnered with the Grammys and other like I would imagine their pissed off Yeah, like well, what is this like I don't really want to be parted with you if we're not gonna have
[SPEAKER_00]: The viewership that you claim that you're going to have, like you just lost a major artist because you're not properly representing that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean to lose those corporate partners is just, I mean, we're talking money now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: money is like where the decisions get made, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, on their the Grammy's website they have a ton of corporate partners listed, but really big companies like IBM and Sony and Mastercard and Hagen Dawes and like it's such a huge variety of corporate partners that, you know, you could expect when you're watching the Grammy's to get advertisements from these companies.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah,
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that they're getting pressure on the money side on the corporate side of it, and I also saw a lot of rumors about how much I was just going to say I think it shows how much poll BTS has to right and I mean I don't know who the people are at Sony or Mastercard, but I can't imagine them being like
[SPEAKER_00]: you pissed off BTS like why to like the the biggest group in the world after they just performed for the FIFA World Cup you're gonna snub them like I don't want anything to do with like I don't know whether it's that or it's just it just shows like BTS is such a big name right you know
[SPEAKER_01]: For them to, you know, fucking pull this right bullshit for them to say we're not submitting and it makes the Grammy scramble like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they've never done that for an artist before because there's been multiple artists like Drake and you know, so many other artists that have said their boycotting the Grammy is they've made public statements about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to submit to the Grammy's for X, Y, and Z reason, but they've never like been releasing and like, you know, talking about it so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's also been a lot of rumors going around that
[SPEAKER_01]: Since BTS has said, you know, made their statement that within the recording academy and the people that vote that there's been a lot of discourse about Did we do the right thing with creating this category so I love that they're questioning it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want to break down That they should yeah, as they should I want to break down a part of the quote where he said there are some artists in this space who feel this category isn't representing the music They work so hard to create in the way that they wish
[SPEAKER_01]: Just say BTS, you mentioned BTS in his first statement, you know, like, by name.
[SPEAKER_01]: So why are we like, it's like, they're trying to distance themselves from, you know, BTS, but just just say what you're talking about, like, publicly apologize to BTS or something,
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, it's it's almost putting a little bit of the blame on them saying like they feel that this category isn't representing instead of them using language of saying we understand now that this category doesn't represent
[SPEAKER_01]: in the way that we intended.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's no It's very passive language I feel like It's almost like someone it's the equivalent of someone saying, I'm sorry you feel that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like not truly Recognizing what it's not taking ownership.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not taking ownership at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it's lacking accountability
[SPEAKER_01]: And in their statement where they're like, you know, we're trying to, you know, be more inclusive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but they're lacking true equity and opportunity among artists in the way that they create a category like this and similar categories that we discussed last episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: like he's missing the point that this is about letting them BTS play on the same plane field as the other major artists and that we don't need to separate everything out the way that they are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially with a category like this, the naming of an Asian pop where they're like blurring the lines of genre and region.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they could have said a kpop category, they could have said, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: so vast and there's so many countries that are part of Asia so like you know are you including all of these countries or are you really just like oh we're just looking at Korea and Japan you know like I don't feel like that's very inclusive honestly
[SPEAKER_00]: it's not and yeah like you're saying boring the line of genre and region and like I can get behind like specific genres having categories you can kind of see that but we brought up this argument last time of like why are european artists british artists germ germ in art whatever you know like why are they getting put in with just like the main categories why do they
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just, yeah, yeah, they're definitely separating them out there, just not putting them on the same playing field like you said.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just going to bring this up now.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's something that I was going to say later, but I think it fits here was that, you know, other major American award shows, Billboard, AMAs, and MTV, all already have Kpop categories.
[SPEAKER_01]: that they've created in previous years, not this year the year that BTS returned from the military, but previously to expand upon, to share, to celebrate specifically K-pop, and you know, create a space without like, I don't know, in the way that they did it, they weren't doing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: reacting to a group returning.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were doing it because they saw the organic rise of Kpop in United States and they saw that there was a space and so they wanted to honor that space But the way that the Grammys went about this it seems like they were just like OBTS are coming back We don't want them to be nominated in every category and sweep our awards show this boy group this Asian boy group So we're gonna create a separate category for them
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: They did there's out of fear.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely of BTS's return and then sweeping.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like you were saying, like other American award shows were doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's something about the timing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the timing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Organic rise of K-pop happened many, many years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whenever BTS came with DNA and they performed DNA, the American music awards, that's when they were like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is something.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is something that we need to start.
[SPEAKER_00]: We need to get on board.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's an audience for the music.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what happened in the music right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they did it appropriately and accordingly, whereas the Grammys have been.
[SPEAKER_00]: Literally putting on their blinders all of a sudden.
[SPEAKER_00]: Try to ignore it, hoping that it would go away.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guarantee you, that's what they were thinking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Completely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it was out of fear and out of pressure for viewership, that they were like, you know what, if we're going to have BTS come, we're just going to have to create a category for them to keep fans watching and to keep people happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not to really celebrate the music.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's interesting, I think the next quote that we want to break down goes along with that where he said, over the past six years, the Academy has shown that it can act decisively and more swiftly to meet the needs of our music community.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it makes me think about what we discussed last episode about Beyonce winning the best country album of the year with Kahwa Carter, and then in response the next year they made a traditional country music and a contemporary
[SPEAKER_01]: Because for some reason a black woman winning this category is just not acceptable and they have to still have their traditional quote unquote traditional category, you know, to make sure that the white country artists could still win something like, you know, it's okay if somebody
[SPEAKER_01]: who looks different than you wins in a ward in the same genre because they make really good music.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Beyonce, one of the biggest entertainers of all time with this incredible album.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, I'm gonna rant about that now, but to me, to get to the point, it's just moving the goal post.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, instead of this one that you could clearly be in the running for that you claimed that you own that, you know, suits what you created, we're going to make this other category to move it back and make it harder for you like are we just going to keep separating genres and artists out where does it end until everybody gets an award because at that point, the Grammys, I feel like are lowering their prestige level by making a million more categories.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like just be truly inclusive and equitable in your process and in your practices as opposed to creating more categories to like on the outside appease even though on the inside we know what the actual effect of that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the last time that BTS attended and were nominated for the Grammys, they were nominated for Best Pop Group Slash Duo.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've been nominated for this what, three times.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they have lost every time because they lose to artists that are collaborating.
[SPEAKER_01]: For example, they lost to Lady Gaga and Ariana Grande for Rain on Me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we were thinking about this yesterday, we were like, why not just create two separate categories there?
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to name a category based on region or race or, you know, genre, you could have a best group performance, you know, and you could have a best collaboration.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you could have a best duo.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that would have created a non-issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: I totally agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think where the Grammys are going totally wrong with this is they need to stop looking at just the artist and they need to be looking at the music and they need to define the music based off of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like you're saying, best pop duo group and then the majority of features being put in there where they're completely ignoring the fact that like features has become such a prominent part of music today.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like features were not as big 10 years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: why not create a feature category so that these groups and these duos which duos have been going on for a really long time like let the groups and duos have their category right now like those that true artistry of a group not features but people who work and create music together
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it could have been a complete resolution to the problem like that could have just been the category for BTS.
[SPEAKER_00]: Pull features out of it and then you know let the groups and the duos actually have their category.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and I think that that's more equitable for sure because then.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not it's not BTS going up in a category just against other artists that they've put into this Asian pop category, but it's going up against artists from around the world also, which I think is like Historically what the Grammys have been right like we talk about how they're they have European artists that are represented at the Grammys and you know, it's let everyone be in the group category together or the duo grab the category together
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you hit it right on the head too when you said that the Grammys need to look at the music instead of looking at the artist because It makes me think of like the Justin Bieber situation where he made an R&B album and they're like no, but you're Justin Bieber your pop music
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're putting you in pop like they're stereotyping based on their own preconceived conceptions of the artist as opposed to just looking at the new individual music that could be up for an award.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and seeing where it falls, and there's so many artists who genre dip like I think it's a part of being an artist and the The musicality of being able to explore those different genres and Thoughts what needs to be celebrated is that the music itself and not just be looking at the artists.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely Just going back to this best group best duo category as well
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that BTS has been nominated for a total of five grimmies in the past with the majority of all of these denominations being on the best pop duo group performance category.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you really break down this category, just looking at the title itself of best pop group performance, how on earth?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, objectively, BTS is the biggest, most well-known group in the entire world right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: How have they not won this category?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it just is, it's very clear that the Grammys just do not want to give BTS a Grammy.
[SPEAKER_00]: like it's it's clear at this point because the lack of them winning this category and then going as far to create now in Asian specific category, only further justifies the argument that they just are like so prejudice and they just are truly ignoring BTS's impact on the music industry.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's disappointing because the Grammys are supposed like
[SPEAKER_00]: you have the Oscars, you have the Emmys, whatever, like the Grammys are thrown in with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would hope that with that title comes a lot of responsibility to really show what's happening in music today.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're completely missing the bar and BTS.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's unfortunate for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because BTS is like a huge moment in history, music history.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that we are a fan girl podcast about BTS and that we've, you know, loved them since 2017.
[SPEAKER_01]: So of course our opinion is going to be, there's some bias in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have to remember that, but also I'm thinking about like,
[SPEAKER_01]: When BTS, like, the, you know, 2022 and 2023, the most recent years that they were active and nominated for this category, thinking about who they went up against, I just think it would be so crazy for anyone, any of the voters to watch all of the available performances and not be like, wow, that was the best performance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that was, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the vocals, the visuals, the dance, the, you know, the choreo, just everything stacked together, and just like, yeah, I don't know, it's just where I still go back to like it's just prejudice, like it's people being like, well, or maybe even just familiarity, like they're more familiar with, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: Sam Smith and instead of, you know, BTS, but it's just it's hard to overcome when there's that type of, you know, like we're assuming that there's some implicit bias that people may or may not recognize within themselves that they are, you know, the voters are, you know, that they have Yeah, it's so I mean
[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of going back to your point though.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we can understand that obviously we love BTS and like we're gonna say that they're the biggest band in the group, but like Google it Like it's Google bias that's so true like the literally biggest group in the world right now I also it's gonna be it's gonna be coal play and it's gonna be coal play and be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah Yeah, they're like collaborating together all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're always in this category together by the way like
[SPEAKER_01]: every year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also, the part about this quote where he says like, meet the needs of our music community.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it goes along with what you were saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just thinking like, okay, who is included in quote, our music community?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, whose needs, whose interests are they protecting?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because when they're saying this, this doesn't read as like the American music consumer, you know, like it
[SPEAKER_01]: And something about Alita's groups is that they don't usually like to let people in to their little club, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, so... Yeah, that's exactly it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's exactly it.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no better way to put it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then they're just Alita's and BTS aren't welcome in their community.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just so crazy to me that we're speaking so harshly of the Grammys and like...
[SPEAKER_01]: Reading in to all of this and assuming all of this that's going on the background based on the evidence that we see But also knowing that last year bad bunny a Spanish speaking artist one album of the year and song of the year
[SPEAKER_01]: or artist of the year artists of the year and album of the year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the I can take them a while to get there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Biggest awards.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, it did.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I think I came down to undeniable numbers, which I would think that BTS would also have.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were undeniable numbers, but they still continue to just make a totally separate category for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's issue, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: because Bad Bunny was also like in the, you know, Urbano Latino album category and, you know, like one in those two, but I think because of his impact that he had on not just the United States, but the world with his album last year, I think that
[SPEAKER_01]: they had to.
[SPEAKER_01]: They had to include him in those categories.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just makes me so curious on if the Grammys would have nominated BTS for not only the best Asian pop performance, but also those front runner categories, or if they would have just pigeonholed them into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a whole what if that we already got into last episode, but we got into this last episode and I just
[SPEAKER_00]: that I couldn't help but to feel like man they really we just know their music we know where they are now we know that they absolutely qualify and could totally win those major categories but I just think kind of what I'm gathering now just talking about bad Bunny is that the grim is just take longer to get there to get to that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like maybe eventually maybe
[SPEAKER_01]: I also think that like Auditon as a work of art is so different than what they have done in the past and that each song takes you all over the place like I still think about our first listen through how we feel like we got like smacked by Hooligan, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were like, oh my gosh, what the hell was that?
[SPEAKER_01]: We loved it, but what the hell, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that it's such different music that it takes, you know, more nuance and more like discussion and more thinking to be able to like really appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a lot of the songs you can just, I mean, we love them first listening and we were like, oh, this is so awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we're also predisposed to enjoying BTS music, you know, not to say that we love every single one of their songs in their history, but like for our wrong specifically, we really love all the songs.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just don't think that like this album could be appreciated at the level, like the critical acclaim that it has by the Grammys, you know, I just don't think that they usually see albums with such new ones, you know, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, here's what we're at with all of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: We feel like the core issue is the naming of a category by a region in genre.
[SPEAKER_01]: And from their statement, it seems like the Grammys were trying to be inclusive, but inclusivity is not equity.
[SPEAKER_01]: And BTS deserves equity.
[SPEAKER_01]: We want equity for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like this category is giving an Asian pop artist to see that the kids table instead of
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very othering to name a category by region and genre.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not inclusive at its core.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it's like, cookie cutter inclusivity, but it has no depth to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And since BTS has been nominated for the best duo group performance category, it got us thinking, oh, we kind of already talked about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, why not just create that best group performance category?
[SPEAKER_01]: Worst, it feels like now after all this discussion,
[SPEAKER_01]: in the face and it also seems to align with Mason Jr. statement about meeting the needs of their music community like it I think it would meet those needs it would provide a space for BTS and groups like them and other groups that you know perform at that level without like other rain at the same time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it seems like how could they have overlooked that option?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it really, how could they have overlooked that option?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it just seems like a much easier solution without uttering so significantly and it's best Asian pop performance or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we dove into another article titled, Discapatneed the Grammys.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this article points out that the Grammys are seen as the Pentecost and the highest goal for many Asian artists, however,
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there other artists now have to decide like if they're going to follow suit or if they're going to submit their music?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think this is like a really interesting point that we can kind of talk about like we've talked about BTS paving the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could see BTS being supportive of people who want to go ahead and take that route and say, Hey, maybe our impact isn't we want a Grammy, but that we've created now.
[SPEAKER_00]: a category that can have other K-pop artists or other Asian artists when a Grammy is, that's like a serious goal for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could see BTS not blaming them for doing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think BTS would blame any group for submitting like the chance to get a Grammy is so appealing and this category definitely makes it easier for artists like coming from Asia.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, get a shot at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, but I think like we said hi, but still submitting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure the other major companies that are in Kpop will also still submit artists like, you know, no artists any other artists have publicly commented on what they're planning to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you kind of talked about this earlier when we were doing research, Kayla, just about how other artists might now have as much say as like the company and the company might take this as like an opportunity for their groups to get better recognize and put their name out there more and their music out there more and more exposure to help with the popularity and growth of the group right whereas BTS have a lot of autonomy at this point to be able to make those decisions for themselves and hide can't really tell them like
[SPEAKER_01]: one way or the other what they have to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it is a great opportunity.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I'm thinking about right now how we used to talk a lot about before, like, the military, BTS are tired of having to be first.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of weight to carry.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not even just being first, too, but you kind of mentioned this earlier, too, about how they probably don't like the Grammys.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't have as much nuance for listening to Auditong and everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they shouldn't have to cater their music anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, they should not.
[SPEAKER_00]: They should not.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I think it is to try it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't work.
[SPEAKER_00]: they lost themselves in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fuck that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it almost broke them up as a group in that era to be chasing a Grammy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's what the 2022 Festo was really all about, you know, and it was hard as a fan to see that and to reckon with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: a million times harder for the group to go through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like to see RM crying to see the other members crying and just be totally wrecked and feel like no.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's all because of this chasing of a Grammy this like almost unattainable goal.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it would just feel empty for them at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I really like this article that you mentioned.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was an interesting quote that came out from it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's from Anton Herr.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's one of the co-translators of BTS' book beyond the story, 10-year record of BTS.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I just love this as a guy who knows BTS' story in and out, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in a social media post about the category and then the Grammy's deciding to reconsider it, whatever that may mean.
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, I often count the number of persons of color and Asian nominees.
[SPEAKER_01]: in a book prize long list.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I see just one, I can tell immediately that it was the token pick.
[SPEAKER_01]: BTS was always being used to show up viewer numbers for the Grammys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think he is 100% correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: like it is it's not it does not feel good to be tokenized and to be like oh look we're inclusive because we have this one Asian act like that is not what inclusivity is and yeah I love that he's like pointing out that they're likely just using BTS for viewership which is something that many people online hold to be true there was a
[SPEAKER_01]: And they said, if the Academy intends to boost the profile of K-pop acts, it would have been better to explicitly recognize K-pop as a genre and create its own category.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like we mentioned earlier, that the other awards shows have already done it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that would have been...
[SPEAKER_00]: Better you know at least we know and can say that K-pop is more of a genre, but best Asian Pop actor whatever this kind of where it just like again.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the the genre region.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are we doing right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I've been better if it was a K-pop category.
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also love what they ended with, where they said, there's a certain level of pride with BTS now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if BTS doesn't win, BTS is still BTS to people around the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: The group itself has become a source of national pride.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this sentiment is ultimately what drove BTS' decision to not submit to the Grammys and to uphold their own
[SPEAKER_01]: pride in themselves and their work as a group by not allowing themselves to be subject to this game that the Grammys is playing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, a hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like this is the exact same note that we left off on in our last episode of just BTS are part of their album.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're part of who they are now.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've come so far and they don't have to seek that validation or leave their album up to the Grammy's opinion of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or anyone else is really like they just have a lot of pride and BTS
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're still not sure what the Grammys are going to do with this category if they're going to rename it, if they're going to mix it, if they're going to, you know, I think it's too late for them to make categorical changes and Grammys submissions are due, you know, by the end of this month.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it will just be interesting to see what ends up happening with this, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a good thing that there's discourse within the recording academy about Wow, we really messed up.
[SPEAKER_01]: We did not make the right choice with this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we missed the bar It may be maybe I'm too emotional and too harsh with the Grammys, but I do hope that they can reevaluate their process and reevaluate their own biases that could be taking place and
[SPEAKER_00]: To go some of their own pride and rather catch up with the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, all right, part two.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not doing it right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not doing it right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: We really like did not expect to talk about it again, but just this freaking post this PRS created, you know, statement from Harvey Mason Jr. that just continued the discourse for us.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had to touch on it again.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, hopefully we'll come back in a couple weeks.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll have some other more fun BTS content to talk
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we hope that you guys still enjoyed this discourse about the Grammys and, you know, kind of like the our conversational look into What is going on here and what does this mean for them and also for BTS?
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely something that's worth talking about, especially in this day and age and just the continual fight for equity is always going to be something that's important.
[SPEAKER_01]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Super proud of BTS love them so much and you know just excited for what they're doing in their career these days.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, as always, you can find links for all of the things in the description.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening and thanks for standing BTS.