[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the greatest parenting podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey guys, today we have a fantastic episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're really excited.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be talking about how to parent the protocol.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have our friend Dustin here from Samaritan Ministries.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how we met and got connected.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we just had to have him on to tell the story because he himself has experienced being the protocol son.
[SPEAKER_01]: 10 years, heroin addiction, jail, suicide, watch, and then the Lord got hold of him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's a very simple,
[SPEAKER_01]: view of the full big story.
[SPEAKER_01]: But wow, what a journey.
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just grateful to be here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you guys so much for having me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, now I think this is a super relevant topic to a lot of parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: Many people experience it in a silent quietness, oftentimes in isolation where they're struggling with a child who's either doubting wandering from the faith or in cases like yours where they're actually
[SPEAKER_00]: literally headed down a very dangerous path and parents needed to be encouraged to say faithful.
[SPEAKER_00]: They also might feel like they don't know what to do or who to talk to.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm I'm prayerfully
[SPEAKER_00]: And hope I have so much hope that today's episode is going to be like aha moments for those parents that maybe you're struggling with it, but also if a parent that is listening, maybe a mom or a dad of little kids and they themselves were a prodigal child, I'm sure that today's episode will be encouraging to them as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
[SPEAKER_02]: Amen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's just get started.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it would be awesome if you could share, you know, as brief as possible, I was like, I went through it as simple run down.
[SPEAKER_00]: At what age did you start heading towards the path of destruction?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I grew up in kind of Northwest Indiana and in a swampy part of Northwest Indiana and just in the midst of a lot of family brokenness, you know, if you looked at the family tree, there's just a lot of divorce, a lot of subs and subuse and like, you know, a lot of families.
[SPEAKER_02]: But early on, you know, I think I really started seeking out pleasure because of one, my sinful heart wanted pleasure and I started seeking it out all the wrong places.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, there was,
[SPEAKER_02]: substances were kind of the the the path that was carved out quite a quite a deep carving of that so it didn't it wasn't very hard I didn't have to look very far in order to go down that route and really from as I can certainly as I can remember I mean I started using drugs at a very early age and there's a long period of of of my life where I was just absolutely chasing after the wind and
[SPEAKER_02]: bound to my own whatever gave me pleasure in any and all areas.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was the most important important thing in my life.
[SPEAKER_02]: And with having a family situation that there was a lot of brokenness going on that even the bad stuff that I was doing, you know, there was so much other stuff going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was kind of just getting mixed in with, you know, with all of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But
[SPEAKER_02]: pretty quickly into my teenage years, I started to dwarf the rest of the family with how the things that I was getting caught up in.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's interesting now to even talk about this, you know, practical topic.
[SPEAKER_02]: And at the time, I didn't, I didn't think I was a practical one.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there was no like, oh, I'm going to be a practical.
[SPEAKER_02]: That wasn't
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that was never the case, um, and I mean, obviously you, you weren't necessarily committed to Jesus, but you knew who he was, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, growing up, I had one of those families that kind of had a very loose reverence for God, but they weren't really going to church.
[SPEAKER_02]: They kind of had like, you know, I would call like kind of their own backyard Jesus, you know, that they just, you know, well, I'll just, you know, connect with Jesus in the backyard and they never really had any community or never talked about them or there wasn't really any reading of the Bible or practically working that out.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you pressed them on whether or not God was real, it was kind of like, oh yeah, of course he is, but that didn't really translate into like, we lived our lives according to that, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would say my family was like an element of God fearing, but God fearing to the point of like they just wanted to keep them happy.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it was kind of like just as long as he's not mad at us, you know, just I'm so most going to keep him away because they didn't want any beef with God, but they also didn't want to serve him if that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the choices that you were making and the pleasure seeking in the eyes of your parents probably was making God mad.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think that with my parents were literally living moment to moment, I'll be honest with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, they had me when they were really young before they were married.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that it was like, they were just pretty much a most of my entire family.
[SPEAKER_02]: I felt like it was just kind of living for the day and was just kind of tread and water.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's at least what I kind of remember growing up.
[SPEAKER_02]: a lot of emphasis on just having a good time and I think that was kind of my family kind of had like the e-drink, be merry, because tomorrow we die.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sort of mentality, you know, and that was across that was pretty well across the board.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there was one one person in my family, my grandma, who actually would talk about Jesus, not just like give lip service to God, but would genuinely talk about Jesus Christ as being the Lord of the universe.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we kind of all
[SPEAKER_02]: like we thought she you know what there's like okay granny all right you know um and we just kind of pretty much all just put her into that category of being you know granny is a you know crazy Jesus freak but you know um we still loved her she was kind of the only one I remember growing up that what have Jesus on her lips in a positive light.
[SPEAKER_01]: How did that play a role later when you're in the jail cell they're watching him for suicide you don't have any clothes
[SPEAKER_01]: And how did the grandma play a role and, you know, Oh, yeah, most definitely.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've tell us all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like, in regards to the practical side, you know, the story in Luke 15, where he's like in the pig's lap.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: For me, it was, I was on the suicide floor of a jail, you know, and with, you know, no clothes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's pretty well at that time where you're like, okay, this is bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a bad situation objectively.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is bad, and I really give credit to my grandma just persistently over the years Always giving testimony to that Jesus is the one who saves that he is the one that we need and and so Even though when she was doing that growing up and it would have seemed like I definitely was not listening
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, not only not listening, but I was, you know, not wanting to hear that, um, it really actually, I was filing it away.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was filing it away.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when I- On your heart, all of those times that she shared things, so I always have to emphasize that for parents or grandparents that are listening, like you may think it's going in one ear and out the other, but those are seeds that are potentially being planted, and you never know when it's going to start to sprout.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, smart granny.
[SPEAKER_02]: She knew I'm just going to keep Chuck and seeds that you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know it.
[SPEAKER_02]: One of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like she I'm looking back.
[SPEAKER_02]: She yeah, and she didn't do things perfectly.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's the grandparent's out here too.
[SPEAKER_02]: My grandma was not perfect in her evangelistic efforts.
[SPEAKER_02]: She she was not and but the messages that came through to me is that Jesus is Lord and he is he's what I need.
[SPEAKER_02]: And and she just would keep that keep that going and she never really missed an opportunity I feel like to when I got to see her that there was somewhere somehow that was coming that was So it was just and that she was genuine about it again.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I nobody doubted that she genuinely believed that like it wasn't like she was just saying it Like no, she actually believed it
[SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned as when you're talking to you before that she even got as bold as to say you need to get right with Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: My grandma was kind of the she leaned heavily more heavily on the truth than the grace side of the you know, if there's if you split that down, she had no problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just telling you exactly how how it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let that be an encouragement to is that sometimes you feel like, oh man, I chased them off or maybe I was a little bit Maybe I will, maybe I will, well, a little too hard in the paint there with the Jesus stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, um, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, I think looking back it kind of was more like, you know, she really did believe this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then why wouldn't she be as passionate about it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I want to, I'm just going to read briefly from Luke chapter 15, which is the parable of the protocol son.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's a few things here that kind of contrast, you already brought up one that, you know, you got to the place where you were in the pig pen, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so for those of you who are maybe listening, you can go and read all of the parable of the protocol son in Luke chapter 15 verse 11 through 32.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in verse 18, he comes to a place after he's in the
[SPEAKER_00]: Pigpens, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's just he's lost everything, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: He's hit rock bottom so to speak.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in there, we don't see the dad running to help him not to hit rock bottom.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's actually an.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a it's a hard thing that I've witnessed many times with a lot of parents when they just they they love their kids I get it you love you so much you don't want to see them suffer but instead of letting them experience natural consequences of their sin they try to protect them and soften the blow a little bit and then.
[SPEAKER_00]: The kids just keep going in the same direction because they didn't actually feel the consequences of it and it gets harder and harder and harder and we talk about that a lot just in the parenting Metro program in regards to like you have to allow your kids understand sewing and reaping when they're little because if they don't get it and then they launch the reaping is a lot more harsh in the real world right and so it's like
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, for your story, your consequences, you hit rock bottom, you're literally in prison, you had 10 years of heroin addiction, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And to be in that place, was there ever a time where you thought, man, where am I parents?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why aren't they bailing me out?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why aren't they helping me?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a great question, and you're right, this is a really hard thing to know when mercy and grace like giving something that they don't deserve and helping them and when does it look like letting them feel the weight of their choices?
[SPEAKER_02]: This is, this is where the rubber meets road.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the most important question that I'll parents are like, I don't know, what's too much?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you know, I will say at the time I remember, you know, like going to jail and my parents leaving me in there and my parents never bailed me out of jail and looking back I'm actually grateful that they didn't because you're right there was.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if they would have, then, then, and they would have absorbed that consequence, then, because by, by, reaping those consequences one after another, it got me to a point where I just hated my sin.
[SPEAKER_02]: You brought it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and so to really feel the consequences of your sin and then to realize that, oh, I'm, it's on me, like, you know, and so I'm glad my parents didn't tempt me to believe that it was on them, you know, that it was you did if they would have bailed you out.
[SPEAKER_00]: You would have likely said, oh, they did this, not necessarily because they love me, but because they feel responsible somewhat.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, at that point in time, you know, especially if you're a manipulative in drugs, or you're, you know, then it's, it's really, really common to shift the blame.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if people are absorbing your consequences inadvertently, that's kind of what you're teaching them is like, then the blame is on you too.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if I could, you know, have my parents believe that it was their fault.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I could get them to do what I wanted them to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: The natural course that most people take continues to make the Protocol-centered daughter feel like a victim and then because they're you're not taking away their consequences They have to deal with what they've seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're actually coming to a place hopefully at some point And this is the most likely path and worth it in a break and actually
[SPEAKER_01]: Not see themselves as a victim, but see their responsibility in what they're doing and until they accept their own responsibility and hate this sin, then they're going to continue in those sins.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when it's 2015, it's also a sin.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we saw it in the Garden of Eden.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was a very first sin.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, obviously disobeying God, but then when God comes to Adam and Eve and he says, where are you and they were hiding and he says, what have you done?
[SPEAKER_00]: Adam, he blames the woman, God gave him.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he blames God and blames the woman and then she turns around blames the serpent, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's human nature to blames you if regardless of if you're on drugs or you're backslidden and any kind of way, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And in these times, you know, the a lot of times you, you're focusing on the sin of the protocol, which is, you know, you get it because that's the one that's, that's, you know, that's sort of predominant situation that's happening here.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think what happens in most cases is that
[SPEAKER_02]: in those severe situations like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It starts to reveal all of the idols in the family, in the brokenness, because as a parent, when you're feeling you don't have any control and you're desperate for something, the temptation to sin, then there for you is very great.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then also, when you actually do start wanting to kind of,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's bringing everything to the light so in those really tough situations where parents are seeing a child that they've spent years and hours and countless, you know, times and sleepless nights pouring into
[SPEAKER_02]: just absolutely on the verge of destruction.
[SPEAKER_02]: You start to get desperate and you start to get desperate and you start doing things that are not helpful or you start believing things lies that aren't helpful and it starts to, it starts to again bring, bring all of a sudden to forefront and that's really hard and I just want to like just even for a moment just pause if you're listening to this
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, and it's feeling like really helpless and you have these, I love the one where there's a child or a brother or sister or even a parent and they are and you could just see that they are just going down this road of destruction and you so desperately want to help them you so desperately just want to shake it out of them you so desperately just want goodness for them and you've come to a spot where you realize I
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't do this for them.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's such a hard place to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's such a difficult place to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't want to gloss over that and just to acknowledge like in my situation now that we have the perspective of hindsight.
[SPEAKER_02]: But when you're right there in the moment and you don't know and there's not, you know, there's not a scripture and verse to say, hey, do this, do this, do this, and this is going to be the outcome.
[SPEAKER_02]: that uncertainty or even the idea of like how long are we going to have to be in the some families have been in this for years and it's just wreaks havoc and it keeps you up at night and it's just it is it is a real trial and so hopefully by talking about it today maybe we can at least bring some encouragement and knowledge that but then hopefully also get to talk about maybe what are some things we can do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes you're saying that sometimes you have to let go, not, you still love the person, but there's nothing you can, there's really nothing in physicality that you can do in some situations, it's all situational, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what you can do is pray.
[SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully, in parents, this turns them into a journey of more surrender with the Lord and realizing how powerful God is.
[SPEAKER_01]: and how he loves the child as well, and really open hands surrendering on their knees, crying out to God.
[SPEAKER_01]: and just ramping up that prayer life for your child.
[SPEAKER_01]: That seems like wonderful.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think that, you know, you mentioned for a second that it reveals sins on both sides, not just a protocol, but also in the parents of the family, structure, family culture.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that people will be scared to reveal that, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so then what is human nature, if you look back to the garden again, you see Adam and Eve hiding.
[SPEAKER_00]: They literally tried to hide their sin.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just even think of like a Christian parent who's son or daughter is a prodigal whether that's like they're drinking and partying and they're hiding it or they're but the parents know something's up or the the daughter is being promiscuous or the son's being promiscuous and then a girl gets pregnant right whether that was
[SPEAKER_00]: And then think of how many Christian families where abortion happens and parents keep it quiet, for example, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just like that to me and important.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's just so many rampant, like there's epidemics happening in our country.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it is affecting the modern church today.
[SPEAKER_00]: and how many people keep it quiet like you to sit in a church of like 200 people and to realize that the person sitting next to you is somehow affected by someone in their family who's committed suicide or who's had an abortion or who has struggled with drug addiction who's walked away from the faith who's walked away from a family who's committed adultery like just think who's gossip who is a gossip.
[SPEAKER_00]: currently right like the sheer amount and and for people like the human condition is to hide and to isolate and to not let people in too close to see that so that they don't have shame or embarrassment but in reality in these situations it's like God like first John says to bring it into the light so it has no power so there's no the enemy doesn't have a foothold to keep you in the bondage right and so bring it into the light is confession.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you bring in somebody else into the light, you're in the light, it's a theme sin.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or your density of protein it, then your temptation is to not bring it to the light, because you don't want your own sin to be bought in the light.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've often said, you're never going to hold somebody accountable to the very thing that you're not disciplined in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, everything that you're falling for or like you're having a pornography issue if the husband the father let's say is having a pornography issue They're likely not to hold their children accountable in that same way or to seek that out and so it's really really important that we
[SPEAKER_01]: aren't perfect, but that we're repenting of our own sin.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're moving from our own sin so that we can be even better accountability and just taking those
[SPEAKER_01]: hiding, oh, I'm sure everything's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I did that as a kid and I turned out okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: All the lies, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But then I, okay, so you want to go back for a second on a second thing that you said.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was one, and then the second thing that you, you're talking about the parents allowing you to experience a consequences for a second, which is actually what we see in the Bible.
[SPEAKER_00]: father, which is representative of the the perfect, which is God's father.
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't chase after that he can give him and his inheritance.
[SPEAKER_00]: He squanders it recklessly living as what the Bible says.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he lets him experience the natural consequences to his sin, but that doesn't mean that he stops loving him.
[SPEAKER_00]: We see that because of how he rejoices when he comes back, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like parents need to understand that there is like there there's a fine line between like loving
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes doing is loving, but not always.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes doing can be sin.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that one of the things that like for myself just listening to this conversation control that word of control and that parents think or desire more control, which is actually an illusion.
[SPEAKER_00]: When God is actually the one that wants control because they're his children in the first place, that's an idol.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like to believe that you can control things whether it's you have money and so you can bail your kids out and you can hide and pretend like everything's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can pay for that super expensive rehab clinic and no one needs to know that you're your kids there, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's that going on also and then just going to church on Sundays and smiling and everything's fine when it's not fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what is the protocol that the son or daughter that maybe hasn't gone super wayward yet, but they're in bout to or they do?
[SPEAKER_01]: How do they look at that family that's pretentious in that way?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all about how they look on Sunday at church, but on the inside, they know that it's in shambles that there's a mess.
[SPEAKER_01]: How does that negatively affect them?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think that's one reason that I kept my family out of church is because it's like, okay, you know, yeah, where this is.
[SPEAKER_02]: We can barely, we can barely even keep our, our own, you know, like there's no way we're bringing this into that situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, my mom would be okay with me sharing this, but I, they're definitely was between my mom and my dad.
[SPEAKER_02]: My dad took a little more of the tough love route and my mom wanted to kind of save me.
[SPEAKER_02]: you know and yeah but what so where that goes really wrong is if the mom and the dad are not unified in their strategy because what the protocol will do is either tear you to pieces or unify you to the utmost degree because
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to, it's going to come into right and you, and if you're not unified on how you're doing it and you're not close in that because it's a, it's not just a, oh, we made this decision that we set it and forget it often times with loving people and entering into these situations or navigating them, it's kind of on like a case by case situation, you know, and, and
[SPEAKER_02]: and you're having to talk about it a lot and it's a lot of work and you're and then especially if you have other kids in the house like in my situation i'd two younger sisters my parents are like we just don't and so i can't protect them from your influence well i do that and they're trying and they're just drowning they're just drowning and so for for me i i mean there's part of it i mean looking back it wasn't strategic
[SPEAKER_02]: But the less unified they were and the more distracted they were, the less they focused on me and the more I could just do what I want.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I I leveraged their disunity and
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel terrible about that and it, it ultimately ended up to my parents no longer, you know, being together.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's, oftentimes, you know, like, again, I don't take the full blame for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a lot of, you know, things that were happening way before, you know, my, my situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: But also, it's such a heavy burden when you have a child who is,
[SPEAKER_02]: just absolutely going wayward that it will test the very core of the foundation of your relationship and if there's any fractures in that they will, they will be exposed.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where, you know, for like, you know, the temptation would be to focus in on the, the the protocol, but I think in these scenarios, if you're able to, if you're, you're still, you know, with the, your spouse is to focus in and to tighten that relationship up.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why I appreciate what you guys do is it's like,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, you know, courageous parenting, but it's a lot of it is you guys being unified.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the best thing you could do for your kids, it's the best thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And even when they're wiling out and acting crazy, then for you guys just to make sure that you are unified, that even if that means that, you know, the kid or the adult children are out doing whatever and you might go, man,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just really helping them, um, yes, like, um, like, um, like, yes, it is, like, you guys, because it will, it will, uh, it will, it will be a situation that if you're not unified on, um, it will show, it will show.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think we talked about it a little bit, but, uh, another thing definitely is to have unity with your local church or your, the local community that your elders,
[SPEAKER_02]: Because oftentimes it's really hard to see like, what is the right thing to do in this?
[SPEAKER_02]: Are we being too harsh?
[SPEAKER_02]: Are we being too gracious?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is this, you know, like, in getting a little bit of outside perspective, not from, you know, strangers or the internet or whatnot, but getting some outside perspectives from people who love you and you trust.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, really cute.
[SPEAKER_01]: You said two really important things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to make sure we
[SPEAKER_01]: before I move forward the first marriage alignment and then your church to huge topics.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things is interesting about courageous parenting we've discovered because the podcast and parenting mentor program have been two staples to help people but really what we've seen when people go through the parenting mentor program is they go into it feeling like either
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not in alignment and they're motivated to get an alignment where they believe they are in alignment and they start the program and we've experienced is both groups experience their further out of alignment than they realized.
[SPEAKER_01]: as they go into biblical parenting and understanding these principles and so forth.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's been amazing to see marriages get aligned because we have to be proactive about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now sometimes things are already happening and it's never too late.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can always get help, but that parenting mentor program has been so powerful for parents preemptively to get aligned and make sure they're aligned.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when the storms come, if they come, whatever they are, they're already been working on it
[SPEAKER_01]: mindset, because how do you become aligned?
[SPEAKER_01]: The beautiful thing about the Bible is it is true, it's God's word, and it's one truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when you guys are just stepping the same thing, you're coming and then giving perspective on parenting, which the Parenting Mental Programme does based on the biblical truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: what you're doing is this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you're like that, you become an unbeatable team because Lord is guiding you and you're centered on the Lord's truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is so, so important.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then additionally, you brought up the church thing and I was just like thinking of my mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most people don't even know who their elders are.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of people are, I'll just be honest today, I don't think that they take time to build relationships with people where they would want them to speak into their life, or they don't seek wise counsel, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's such a phenomenon today as to before you make a decision together, like we're an autonomous independent couple, we make our own decisions.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, like stop, pray, fast, seek wise counsel, then move.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's no shame in going to your elders and just having a white flag and say, hey, we are really, we really need some help thinking through how to navigate this situation with our adult son or our child or teenager or what, like, I, I'm not sure we're thinking clearly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, because realistically, if we're honest, like, if you're in the situation, I think most people say, yeah, like I,
[SPEAKER_02]: I am foggy about this because I'm they're so much emotion.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's so much past history.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's so much on the line.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's so many things that collide with me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, there's so many things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so just swallow your pride and say, hey, can you can you just help us think through this because
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we're doing the right thing here, but also we can use all the help that we can get.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guarantee that if somebody came to their alters or their pastor and said, can you help us just help us wade through this get maybe help make sure we want to be accountable that we're going about this in a way that's helpful or that we're not, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not going to, they're not going to turn you away.
[SPEAKER_02]: If they're your shepherds of the church, this is the sort of stuff shepherding and helping families and truthfully you need to help.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: The lie is that, oh, we can, I can do this on my own, which is ironically, the lie that the practical son is believing as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: right it's interesting there's a lot of lies I think parents could potentially struggle with right like oh there this way because I screwed up or I did something wrong right and like while it is healthy to always be introspective and to make sure Lord is there any way we're way in me show me my sin and being repentant of that to dwell on that and to be constantly in condemnation that's from the devil right and that's like paralyzing for a parent to actually be biblical even with
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, like I, I, I, I needed to just say this is, this is mine.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I own this and, and so there's that one side where you're taking all the blame for them.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's the other side where it's, um, you are just constantly pointing out how terrible that they are.
[SPEAKER_02]: and not doing any sort of, like you said, introspection of going, man, this is where I'm bringing sin to the situation, and yeah, that's where, you know, doing this in, and having people the help shepherd that, because, you know, like the scriptures talk about, when you're confronting people in their sin, you gotta do it gently.
[SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, you're gonna get caught up in your own ass, over the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and when this is, and when it was something that's as you have this much on the line, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, this is a lot on the line.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not just like we're talking about a lot on the line.
[SPEAKER_02]: It will bring out the the the deepest, the deepest desires of your heart and what you're willing to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: And and who you're willing to to blame.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it goes and all like you said, it goes, it people take extremes in all directions.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's where it having a pastor or
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[SPEAKER_02]: elder or people in your church who are at speaking into your life could say I think you know here's to appreciate the way you're thinking about that but really honestly like you're not being unloving by telling your adults on he can't come to your house anymore or like we're there any discouraging moments when you're starting to swing back maybe you're starting to me you want to improve and these kinds of things but people
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, aren't responding to or people aren't loving you back or you're sensing a callist heart towards you or is there any discouragement and any feedback for people?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, um, I mean, I had burned people so many times and this is not a common to where it's not just like the practical goes off and it's like he just goes off and that's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is usually like years of Manipulate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Manipulate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, our years of going, hey, I won't do that anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: And here's years of pulling the rug out years of lying years of hiding all that that's usually the progression of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when you do that, and you absolutely wreck the trust of people, you can come back and you can be restored and be reconciled, but that doesn't mean that they are full trust has been restored.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and so that's actually really hard because yeah, there's part of that where you want to just go right back into You know the position and you're in the trust that you you know that you want and And they're kind of we're gonna you know it's gonna take it it's gonna sometimes take some time and you know I think in my situation You know there's about 10 years that I was just absolutely wrecking everybody's trust and burning every bridge
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it was about after 10 years of not doing that and doing the opposite of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that people finally went like, I think, I think that something radical is actually happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't want that to be a discouragement because it's like, wait, if you, it's not a one to one.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a one to one.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you spend a year, you know, you're going to take a year.
[SPEAKER_02]: But realistically, you know, the trust that's happening there.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't, I,
[SPEAKER_02]: That was something that for them that they are are giving to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't go back and say, hey, you need to trust me now.
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, that would probably be one indication that something in my heart hadn't actually changed.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so there was time, you know, um, in my situation, I was just so glad.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was just so glad to be not shackled and slaved up to my sin anymore that any situation was better, was better than what I was in.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, whether it took a year or 10 years or whether people never want to, I, you know, I really did have to go back to my dad and go back to my family and go and say I'm so sorry for those things that I, that I did and, and, but I genuinely genuinely was.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was receiving it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, praise God right now, my relationship with my, my, my mom and my dad is better than it's ever been my two younger sisters.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, my relationship with him is better than it's ever been my aunts and uncles and everybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I have a better relationship like as far as like if we, when we see each other, there's no like, there's not a pile of wrongs.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know that are just,
[SPEAKER_02]: heeping mound of wrongs.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just straight to embrace.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just straight to embrace in which is it is it is just absolutely wonder wonderful and praise God because that without him that wouldn't be the case.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to rewind for a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe it's apparent listening in that you know their child has some indications of starting to be wayward in their direction and so forth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they hang around the wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: brands as teenagers were, you know, they're not sure what's going on on their devices, or they've got some, you know, pornography on their devices.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're being disrespectful and disrespectful and hiding secrets in these kinds of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just the kind of that, uh, what a lot of people in the world think is normal teenager life, which actually is true.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a lie.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're all simple.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though it's a home in our day today, it's not what God destined to be normal.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what would if if we could rewind the tape and parents weren't underground and overwhelmed and these Because they were thinking about this and they were part of a church and they were Biblically minded and there was a limit in their marriage.
[SPEAKER_01]: What kind of things could they have done?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that
[SPEAKER_02]: that might have helped you not go off the deep end 10 years of heroin and almost yeah that's a great question and you're right that what happened in my situation is like well you know at least she's not doing this well at least she's not doing this at least she's not doing heroin at least and it was like what at least he's not killing people like there's that they literally just for yeah for years we're kind of just like oh you know it's normal teenage or oh yeah and then you get in a situation where
[SPEAKER_02]: Now it's like oh wait a second and before you know it like it's yeah, you look back and it's like oh man I wish we would have done something before what do you think looking back what would have worked with you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you know honestly I think that yeah my I don't there's no shame in like
[SPEAKER_02]: If parents are united, and this is where my heart goes out to single parents and stuff too, but if the parents are united, to be like Even if the kids don't like you being saying, no, you can't have that.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, we're not doing that.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm taking that away No, I don't care if everyone else does that.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's not happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, like all the crickets in stuff
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it's like, yeah, it's all the unpopular, it's like, yeah, I would just if they were just super unpopular and would have, yeah, just gone against that, but that would have again caused them to have a lifestyle change.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting that you know, like now I'm a parent.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got to young kids and if you let's say you say no and they do that and the know was the right thing to do and they still do it and you did those the right thing to do, however, if you were like, oh, okay, I'm just going to I'm going to bend on this and let them, you know, I'm going to lower standard here and just kind of do this here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then looking back, you'll have more regret in that situation than you would if you just go.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm I'm going to fight for you I will I will wrestle you to the ground in regards to proverbially Before I let you do that and I don't there's no shame it's cuz I love you and and then but you're gonna make your own choices But also I'm not just gonna stand by and and watch that happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think yeah, you know something super important Because the parent we've always said parenting is a long game
[SPEAKER_01]: and a parent's place short and what you just described is the short game.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's in the moment you're tired, you have your own agenda of things to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't seem like a huge, huge issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to let them go in the way they want to go versus what I know is right and what's against what Eric told them and what you just did is your influence just went from here.
[SPEAKER_01]: to hear.
[SPEAKER_01]: And every time you do that, your influence is decreasing and decreasing because your plan is broken.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not, I make strategy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not playing a long game, which is the word needs to be as good as gold to your children because of those trust.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when they, in security, and they get, they drive love from that, actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: and when you're allowing them to do whatever, even though in the moment, they're playing this work game too.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the moment, they think it's awesome, but the accumulation of fact is they don't love me.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not security in these kinds of things, and this is what starts to happen, and they start getting in the wrong crowd, they get influenced.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's like influenced at a finger tip with a phone in anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And with I now, I mean parents have to be more intentional than ever, you've got to be in the trenches where your kids, you've got to spend the extra time and have these long conversations.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it when I see Angie just taking this long time, I'll come home sometimes, and she's in this really important discussion with the child that she just...
[SPEAKER_01]: And then later she tells me, yeah, you know, you just cut the tail in.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were talking for 45 minutes or we were in an hour because they did this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to break up in the bubble of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to know why and all of these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think a lot of times parents are just, they're so busy.
[SPEAKER_01]: What are they busy doing though?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's not like I don't have.
[SPEAKER_00]: I always have a lot of people to cook for right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's 11.
[SPEAKER_00]: Three meals a day.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and then there's cleaning the laundry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like,
[SPEAKER_00]: home setting.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of work in the laundry.
[SPEAKER_00]: But here's the deal though, like we only have 24 hours in a day, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you're going to take time for what's most important, you're going to have to sacrifice the things that you know are not eternal.
[SPEAKER_00]: and make those hard decisions and make sure your relationship is good and you know I- as I've been listening there's this thing that I'm like okay so as a mom who maybe has a 6, 7, 8, 12 year old.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if this is something and I'm curious what your thoughts are.
[SPEAKER_00]: If someone, they may not be outwardly rebellious, but I think that a mom can sense when there's inward rebellion.
[SPEAKER_00]: When their heart is distant from your heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in those moments, you may think, and believe a lie because society will tell you, oh, that's just the growth-spurt stretch marks of your child becoming a teenager, and they're trying to exercise becoming more independent.
[SPEAKER_00]: you feel it again when they become young adults when they're 18, 19, 20 and they're trying to be a young adult but they're also still like living at home or they're just starting to move out or whatever right and they're they're they want they want you to be the parent for the responsible things but they don't want you to be their parent they they want to make their own decisions right and it it is a hard thing to navigate I've already had do this a few times.
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's the thing that I keep coming to that was there is a time to chase after their heart and then there's a time to let them experience their consequences.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a time for both like when they're little and you feel their heart is far from you that's when you chase after their heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: And even when they're a teenager, it's like, I feel like something's not right in our relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to spend time with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm bailing you out of jail.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you see the difference.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you can chase after a child's heart without bailing them out all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I have a quick story to tell you guys that and I think it ties back to that is that when I was late like later on I remember my dad said in me down at the kitchen table when I was in this the depths of you know my sin and he literally had a piece of paper and made me sign a piece of paper.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had two choices on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was one.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you come to the house, we're going to get in the car immediately.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to take you to a long-term men's recovery program.
[SPEAKER_02]: And two, if you don't do that, I'm going to call the police.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had two choices, it let's it down there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, at the time that felt very unloving, I didn't receive that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Looking back, it's the story that I tell is like the pinnacle, most loving thing my dad did.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, my dad would have done that from the get-go from when I was a very young boy and been like, hey, you got obeyed or disobeyed.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the Lord did that to the children of Israel.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what it looks like to obey.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what disobeyed.
[SPEAKER_02]: You got these two choices.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, absolutely, with their young kids in the house, then that looks different than if they're adult children.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the reality of that's what would have really helped me and for parents to know like, hey, this is I'm having you obey this because this is what the scriptures are leading me toward this is what I know God has for this best for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: and really breaking it down like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That would have actually later, because later on, giving either go to jail or go to long-term program, it took, that's an extreme end of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think if there would have been that from the get-go,
[SPEAKER_02]: That would have really helped me in my situation, and so that's what you're talking about here as far as just being engaged and helping them guide them down the path of here's what here's life for you And here is disobedience that is leading going to lead to just death that's in and death and
[SPEAKER_02]: for parents to do that and to do it consistently is not not easy and to when you say when you start to see this disobedience this rebellion that's there and to engage that and get to the heart of what's going on there what's happening when I was growing up I I had I just hated authority I just hated authority
[SPEAKER_02]: And oftentimes that is another key part of this to the people that are going down that they have a real problem with authority.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so making sure that you're stewarding your authority well, not neglecting it.
[SPEAKER_02]: but then also not abusing it is a really, again, doing it in the context.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and doing in the context of other people that are seeking to do it well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you said, we're not going to do it perfectly.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you got a couple of people who are trying to do it well and seeking to do that, there's going to be some good victory in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you can't promise that you never, that even if you did everything,
[SPEAKER_02]: everything, right somehow, right, you know, that you won't still have a child that will end up wanting to pursue this.
[SPEAKER_02]: But also the things that you're instilling in them right now, just like with my grandma, it's not in vain, it's not.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the right thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the right thing for parents to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if you do that, then you get to a spot where, you know, you have a practical child or somebody like you mentioned at the beginning of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: People also, they like, they treat prayer as some last ditch resort.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's, it's really, really not.
[SPEAKER_02]: When you have godly people who are earnestly praying for you, there's this idea of that I like about the hounds of heaven.
[SPEAKER_02]: I I felt them on my tail that you know the prayers of the people who who who prayed for me all that time, which I never I won't know This side of glory who that is but who earnestly prayed for me that I I definitely Am here talking to you today because of that because yeah, yeah, so
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's interesting is, you know, in less week sermon, I, we have age integrated so families are all sitting together.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, I directly told the, the fathers that their responsibilities to disciple their children and their home.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reality is there's a good portion of people that probably aren't because that's not being taught.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what the Bible teaches, but that's not ever being talked about anywhere, very many places.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a gentleman at our men's Bible study this morning, who was a new visitor at church in the Kingdom of Men's Bible studies said, hey, I enjoyed this sermon.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really didn't like this part when you said it should be reading and teaching my kids the Bible, but that's just the friction I need.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's why I'm here this morning because I really didn't like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's the right response.
[SPEAKER_01]: The wrong response is this tickling ears mindset of just wanting to be pacified and getting information that they're comfortable with and doesn't cause it in the change.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's no friction.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the Bible is going to cause us friction.
[SPEAKER_01]: with us and constantly correcting us.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we should be looking for, and we should be looking for a community.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just be aware, a challenge to everybody is be aware of who you're around because it'll normalize something.
[SPEAKER_01]: And is it normalizing bad heart condition towards parents or is it normalizing having a respectful loving heart condition towards parents?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you brought up open up, just cracking open the scriptures.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't until that's another thing wasn't a later on in my life that I ended up at the homeless shelter and in the program It was the first time man actually opened up the Bible and started, you know, I having me memorize scripture and that's what that's what set me free the truth set me free And so it's as a parent.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like you got kids, you're like open up the Bible like all right I get it even that might be like oh gosh, they're gonna think I'm the most uncool
[SPEAKER_02]: But honestly that's it like that actually it's it might sound simple, but open up the living breathing word of God and let it have its way and And if you do that consistently
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, maybe the kids will think, oh gosh, dad's Harry is opening the Bible again.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to read and do that, you know, like, and you might not be the coolest, but I tell you what, um, and now where I'm right right now, if like, if my parents would have done that with me later, I would, oh, man, that is that would have been just life-changing, and it's not like, everybody can do that, that's not there's everybody can do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it can prevent a lot of heartache.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we've gone over like some basic principles that I think are worth highlighting in today's episode as far as like what to do, what to not do in parenting or prodigal child, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's not prescriptive, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But I just want to shift gears for a second and ask you, as being the prodigal, what are some really important biblical
[SPEAKER_00]: to do to not do is a post-productal that is now redeemed and is a new creation in Christ because there's a lot of people out there on the internet that are sharing their stories and they come across like sometimes you can tell when there's a heart posture of true transformation by the power of the Holy Spirit and you can tell when there's a still bitter route is still an
[SPEAKER_00]: they'll allow, well, I did this, but it's not my fault because I grew up in this kind of environment, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I would just love if you could share having been a protocol because today you have been honoring of your family, even when your parents were not like, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: what we would call, they're, you know, not even necessarily Sunday goers, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They've made God, but you know, but you have been honoring of that relationship, which we're called to as Christians, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So do you have anything that you would like to share with the protocols that are now parents that are out there that are claiming Christianity?
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, well, so the, I mean, as far as, like, people like me who were protocols that are now parents, um, yeah, I, okay, one, especially if you're parents, you're still around.
[SPEAKER_02]: I found myself, um, way me when you started having kids and you started realizing, oh, man, I, like, just, uh, I've ever had my years ago was, I, I was like, I can't believe that I've never told my mom thank you for all the diapers she changed.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't really don't on me until I had to change thousands of diapers that somebody did that for me, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be critical of your parents in terms of your parents and you realize all they did that you overlooked, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It is, it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: And my parents are still living.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I get conversations with them, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: And the loop chapter 15 story, the father is celebratory of the son returning, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: you kind of read it and go like you know they had a part of your whatnot.
[SPEAKER_02]: The truth is is like the celebration just keeps going and so and then also in the story there was the other son that is there and so for I think spending so many years just living in nothing but for myself I think it's important to go oh like okay how how has this affected other the other people
[SPEAKER_02]: taking your eyes off yourself and trying to really see, okay, what was, what was, you know, who else was involved, the kids involved or what it may be.
[SPEAKER_02]: And in this story, I wish the, um, I wish the, the practical somewhat came back and to like, no, let's celebrate my brother who's been killing it this whole time, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like,
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I would love, I would love to get a little further as far as, yeah, what was happening in that situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, all that to say, I'm just so grateful because truthfully, like, I didn't deserve all the chances that I got.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I try to now, I guess, when I'm talking to other people, this is why I'm so grateful to talk about this is because I have a heart for the families that are going through this.
[SPEAKER_02]: take take your what you what you went through and go help the families on the other side who are going through it and give them a leave living breathing examples something something yeah give them something to see and also maybe help them I've been able to help a lot of families when they like they're struggling because they they want to love their kids and but they're actually
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've been able to kind of come and go, hey, like it's not in loving to do that, trust me.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: So just try to kind of help maybe help if you see the help some families.
[SPEAKER_00]: The hardest kind of love to not be constantly wanting to save them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because all parents do that, you want to save them.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the reality is they need to learn who got us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that God is the one who's going to truly save them.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been able to serve more families like the people who are not prodigals than the prodigals.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and there's a lot of opportunity to help them.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why I kind of camp so much out on that is because typically in these situations, they would be the ones who are actually looking for help.
[SPEAKER_02]: not the protocol.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, um, so that's where if you are a, um, an X protocol, every turn protocol, a protocol that that has, you know, come back, then.
[SPEAKER_02]: yeah try that because this is the truthfully this is this is that unfortunately this is living in this sinful world with sinful broken families this is very common this is extremely common and maybe that's another thing today to talk about it is that people are listening sometimes you might feel like oh gosh I see everyone else in their families are all perfect no yeah no and this is extremely common and trying to figure out how to
[SPEAKER_02]: How to navigate that, to talk about it, and to not let it just absolutely crush you too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've seen families that have just been crushed by this, and there's one kid in the family who's doing that, and there's maybe other kids in the family, and it just crushes to the point where then the other kids, like in this in the story, they get left out on.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, that's a long answer to your question and I don't have all the answers to all this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that the biggest, really, the biggest thing is you need some help, everybody needs some help navigating this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you don't have Pastor elders or church leaders or people in your church that you can trust, that you know that they have a deep abiding relationship with Jesus, that you can get some, some godly counsel.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's going to be victory in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what the outcome is going to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how long that's going to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the scriptures do say there is victory in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's what I would what I would run to for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is so encouraging, empowering and raw and real.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we just appreciate you caring for so many people.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, part of the reason we add you on us because we
[SPEAKER_01]: We're partnering together in a sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're from your leader at redeemed health share ministries.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we use instead of health insurance.
[SPEAKER_00]: And our most meritiveness.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I appreciate is that a lot of times you're a customer of a company.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not relational.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you're, it's not even a customer.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you're part of redeemed health share.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're part of a community.
[SPEAKER_01]: Act, I just got an email yesterday that was asking, Hey, would you like us to pray with you or for you?
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's this effort.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like real Christianity and real connection and solving a really big problem for families and making sure that they can be more choosy in what kind of health solutions and doctors and so forth they use.
[SPEAKER_01]: And still get it covered in a just a different way.
[SPEAKER_01]: So through health sharing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I I just appreciate that and so maybe you could share a little bit with us because we're part of the we were part of the legacy program For years we are for years and then we upgraded to redeem and we like and we like it even more.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other one was great and we like this way even more So you know, maybe you could share with everybody about that or what's good
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, I've been working at Samaritan for 10 years, so I love being there.
[SPEAKER_02]: After I went to the Men's Discipleship Program, I was clear that I wanted to serve the Lord and I ended up going off the Bible College where I spent about six years there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then after Bible College the Lord led me to Samaritan and so yeah, it's it's been such a great thing I initially was like okay I wonder why I'm I'm here but this idea of a community of Christians bearing one another's burdens and helping each other out
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's, it's up a huge part of my story.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, that's why I'm hammering down so much on this is because, um, it was a total village that it took, you know, and I think God for that and, um, and so to be at a spot where we're coordinating the sharing of medical needs upon just a massive scale, just, you know, hundreds of thousands of Christians are meeting each other's medical needs and redeem.
[SPEAKER_02]: is the kind of next generation of healthcare sharing at Samaritan.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's got new programs and new features and stuff that people have been asking us for for a long time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're excited about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, all the digital side of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we're excited that you guys jumped onto it, and we're thankful and glad to, you know, get to, you know, work with you guys, and we,
[SPEAKER_02]: For us, you know, if there's people out there who are pointing people to Jesus, who are honoring families and who are making much of his name, those are the sorts of people that we serve.
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are the sorts of people that we are, you know, this are excited to come alongside.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but then as we, you know, kind of work together and we've got to know with you other a little bit, um, I'm in the stage of life where I got two young kids and I'm trying to parent and with you guys, it was kind of fun because I remember listening to your podcast when I'd be cleaning up the house and, um, and then we, you know, um, you guys kind of got to hear my story a little bit and you're like, oh,
[SPEAKER_02]: okay we want to hear some more of that and maybe as time goes on I'm still you know I have a four year old and a one year old at home so um so I need all the parenting advice that I can I can I can get so for it's kind of a mutually beneficial relationship in that there's people you know that work at Samaritan that
[SPEAKER_02]: We're trying to be honoring in their, in what God's called them to do at home and being parents.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know people that's on the team that I'm in that are actively engaged with listening to you guys and the benefit from that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you guys benefit from the work that we do because we're offering a healthcare solution to Christian families without the use of insurance that usually is saving a lot in regards to
[SPEAKER_02]: the monthly amount and then it also when you do have a medical need you have other Christians praying for you and supporting you and helping you meet your medical needs and like you said you get the freedom to go where you want to go so it's a bit of it's a it's a
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been a suite, you know, as we've been kind of working together on stuff and I'm so grateful to get to come and share, you know, the part of my story and hopefully maybe if there's somebody out there that's either going through this or gone through this or that maybe they'll leave today be acknowledged but then also maybe the Lord will use this to kind of help again
[SPEAKER_02]: And we'll gladly just keep on as much as we can, keep ministering to people and over here at Samaritan.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're excited about all the things that God is doing and just again grateful for you guys for what you do.
[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you so much for having me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we don't have time to cover it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we...
[SPEAKER_01]: build on health insurance as what it's called in seven years ago seven years ago and have been utilizing Samaritan ministries and that's been far better and far better and to understand how a family of nine could do that and
[SPEAKER_01]: and we're saying it's less expensive for us and it's far better.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'd have to talk to somebody at Samaritan.
[SPEAKER_02]: So how would they... Yeah, well it's not hard to find us online so you can go to SamaritanMinistry.org and you'll see even on there the programs that we have Redeem Health Share, we'll do one of them and Redeem has its own website there.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can navigate and see that you can give us a call.
[SPEAKER_02]: The numbers are right down there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure you guys will maybe pop a link in the show notes as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's real people who love Jesus, who are standing ready to, if you have any questions, they'll take as much time as you need to kind of go over it and talk with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Samaritan is a nonprofit organization and all the folks that work there, again, are folks that are real humans that love Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: I see them all the time and it's actually you bump into.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can either call or email if you have any questions and we can go out here for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for being on the show, Dustin, and you have room for joining us.