WEBVTT 00:00.031 --> 00:02.132 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, everyone, welcome back to Room for Us. 00:02.593 --> 00:04.173 [SPEAKER_00]: A space-square queer voices thrive. 00:04.634 --> 00:06.195 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host, P, and every single week. 00:06.235 --> 00:10.357 [SPEAKER_00]: I like to sit down, get vulnerable, and talk about all things queer with all of you. 00:10.937 --> 00:18.342 [SPEAKER_00]: And for each topic, I kind of like to dive into something that is inherently queer or just something I'm very interested in. 00:18.882 --> 00:25.586 [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, this topic is a little bit of both, of course, because I had to do a lot of research for this episode, 00:28.948 --> 00:55.371 [SPEAKER_00]: no idea about before and I just found it really fascinating and I feel like what I want to do with this podcast moving forward is like continue to learn and I want us all to learn together because as I'm continuing to learn more I feel like it just helps me gain more perspective on certain situations or why like certain things are said and I found this very interesting so I'm excited to dive into the topic and I have my laptop here because I had to write so many notes like 00:56.011 --> 01:09.177 [SPEAKER_00]: There are so many things I learned about that I had zero clue about before, but I want to start this episode by saying, I'm a lesbian, and I have two adorable cats, the loves of my life, Besso and Soul. 01:09.897 --> 01:13.058 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is what this episode is going to be all about. 01:13.138 --> 01:20.541 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be about the history of cats, the correlation between queer people and cats, and specifically lesbians. 01:20.581 --> 01:24.383 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's kind of the trope of why lesbians love cats so much. 01:24.983 --> 01:27.884 [SPEAKER_00]: But also, why do cats get so much hate? 01:28.364 --> 01:33.705 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's kind of a very clear thing that's happened in society for so many years. 01:34.505 --> 01:40.026 [SPEAKER_00]: And as I was doing some research on this, I was like, this is a very misautochinistic view. 01:40.326 --> 01:43.786 [SPEAKER_00]: And it comes from the patriarchy essentially like centuries ago. 01:43.886 --> 01:47.467 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to get into it all because there's so much to unpack here. 01:47.667 --> 01:54.148 [SPEAKER_00]: I've heard so many terms over the years since I was younger, and it still happens like to this day even being 30 years old. 01:54.708 --> 01:56.349 [SPEAKER_00]: It's always cats versus dogs. 01:56.430 --> 01:59.392 [SPEAKER_00]: Like first of all, these are two domesticated pets. 01:59.532 --> 02:01.433 [SPEAKER_00]: Like why are we always comparing the two? 02:01.813 --> 02:03.995 [SPEAKER_00]: There's also terms like crazy cat lady. 02:04.055 --> 02:05.676 [SPEAKER_00]: We hear all the time. 02:05.696 --> 02:11.040 [SPEAKER_00]: And it got me really thinking about why people don't say the same things about dogs. 02:11.100 --> 02:13.582 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if someone has a lot of dogs, you're not hearing the term. 02:14.062 --> 02:23.344 [SPEAKER_00]: Crazy dog lady, or if someone wants to just, you know, they have a couple dogs and they're having a night in you're not saying something like Oh, you're just a lonely woman who spends time with her dogs. 02:23.444 --> 02:38.747 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like you just don't hear about that The reason behind this is actually reflected in patriarchal values from centuries ago like this goes way way back to when cats were first domesticated Society often maps gender roles onto these animals 02:39.227 --> 02:49.192 [SPEAKER_00]: viewing dogs as masculine and obedient and man's best friend is the terminal always here and cats as feminine and independent aka less friendly. 02:49.673 --> 02:51.974 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to hear that when someone's like, oh, I just don't like cats. 02:52.014 --> 02:52.634 [SPEAKER_00]: They're so mean. 02:53.455 --> 02:59.057 [SPEAKER_00]: Listen, I'm not out here trying to be a hater, like if you don't have a preference or you 03:00.438 --> 03:01.739 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, to I take the back. 03:01.759 --> 03:02.860 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not even like a preference. 03:02.880 --> 03:06.542 [SPEAKER_00]: Like some people just will fully say like I don't like cats. 03:06.602 --> 03:07.222 [SPEAKER_00]: I just like them. 03:07.602 --> 03:11.264 [SPEAKER_00]: I totally get it if you're like, you know, I have a preference for dogs. 03:11.324 --> 03:12.685 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they're just more your style. 03:12.705 --> 03:13.946 [SPEAKER_00]: You like to be active with them. 03:14.606 --> 03:16.968 [SPEAKER_00]: But when people are so like, I hate cats. 03:17.088 --> 03:18.228 [SPEAKER_00]: I really want to know why. 03:18.308 --> 03:19.729 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is the reasoning behind that? 03:19.789 --> 03:21.830 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it because you had a bad experience with the cat? 03:21.870 --> 03:23.932 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I feel like I've heard that a lot. 03:23.972 --> 03:24.592 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, I. 03:25.273 --> 03:34.685 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, grew up with this like neighborhood cat, and it was really mean to me, so now I don't like cats, but are you really going to let like this experience just turn you off from cats forever? 03:34.765 --> 03:36.487 [SPEAKER_00]: I just find it very, very interesting. 03:36.648 --> 03:41.114 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go into the genders here, that society, once again, has given these animals. 03:41.714 --> 03:48.519 [SPEAKER_00]: So dogs as masculine, dogs are traditionally praised for loyalty, constant availability, and eager obedience. 03:49.000 --> 03:55.265 [SPEAKER_00]: Traits that align with power structures and traditional ideas of service and control, and cats are known as feminine. 03:55.685 --> 04:01.229 [SPEAKER_00]: Cats demand bodily consent, they set firm personal boundaries, and reject forced submission. 04:01.730 --> 04:09.676 [SPEAKER_00]: These traits mirror independent agency, which can make them threatening or frustrating to more traditional or authoritarian mindsets. 04:10.296 --> 04:15.820 [SPEAKER_00]: I found that pretty interesting to really think about, because cats, they do demand consent. 04:16.720 --> 04:22.825 [SPEAKER_00]: It's that saying where, like, if you own a cat, you don't really automatically get that love from them. 04:22.865 --> 04:27.047 [SPEAKER_00]: You kind of have to earn it, which I think is a pretty beautiful thing. 04:27.107 --> 04:29.809 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like that bond just grows even deeper. 04:29.889 --> 04:32.851 [SPEAKER_00]: And then when you get that love from your cat, they really trust you. 04:32.911 --> 04:34.352 [SPEAKER_00]: And that makes my heart just melt. 04:34.612 --> 04:36.934 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go into the social stigma and the misogyny. 04:37.214 --> 04:38.575 [SPEAKER_00]: The crazy cat lady trope. 04:39.135 --> 04:51.259 [SPEAKER_00]: Cultural disdain for cats frequently intersects with misogyny, such as using the crazy cat lady stereotype to shame single women who find fulfillment outside of a traditional male companionship. 04:52.079 --> 05:06.923 [SPEAKER_00]: Dislike of boundaries, psychological discussions on pet preferences suggest that intense hatred towards cats often stems from a dislike of uncooperative entities that refuse to offer unconditional submissive approval on demand. 05:07.343 --> 05:12.806 [SPEAKER_00]: Before we get deeper into this, I want to look into the history of these little cuties, like let's start from the very beginning. 05:12.926 --> 05:20.970 [SPEAKER_00]: The history of domestic cats began about 10,000 to 12,000 years ago in the fertile crescent of the Near East. 05:21.750 --> 05:28.634 [SPEAKER_00]: Wild African cats approached early human farming settlements, to hunt mice, and rats that fed on stored grain. 05:29.294 --> 05:35.037 [SPEAKER_00]: Humans welcomed these natural pest controllers leading to a mutual partnership and gradual domestication. 05:35.617 --> 05:40.199 [SPEAKER_00]: So, all in all, the primary purpose of cats throughout history was pest control. 05:40.719 --> 05:44.641 [SPEAKER_00]: They protected human food supplies and prevented disease by hunting rodents. 05:44.881 --> 05:48.383 [SPEAKER_00]: Cats actually have like these historic rolls throughout the centuries. 05:48.603 --> 05:50.984 [SPEAKER_00]: Green protection was one of the biggest ones, as mentioned. 05:51.024 --> 05:56.046 [SPEAKER_00]: So, early farmers needed to store grain, rodents invaded these storage areas. 05:56.226 --> 06:00.748 [SPEAKER_00]: Cats hunted the rodents naturally, so they secured the human food supply without 06:05.610 --> 06:06.831 [SPEAKER_00]: maritime pest control. 06:07.291 --> 06:09.532 [SPEAKER_00]: So sailors love having cats on their ships. 06:09.552 --> 06:11.813 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a very common thing that you would see back in the day. 06:12.453 --> 06:17.495 [SPEAKER_00]: Cats killed rats, chewing through any ropes, and they protected valuable cargo from these pests. 06:17.855 --> 06:20.697 [SPEAKER_00]: As mentioned again, like food, you know, they're keeping the supplies safe. 06:20.917 --> 06:21.877 [SPEAKER_00]: Disease prevention. 06:22.477 --> 06:28.120 [SPEAKER_00]: Rodins carried deadly fleas and plagues, and cats reduced rodent population significantly. 06:28.960 --> 06:33.522 [SPEAKER_00]: This hunting helps slow disease spread, and they kept human living spaces cleaner. 06:33.782 --> 06:44.647 [SPEAKER_00]: Spiritual and companion roles, so Egyptians used cats for spiritual protection, monks kept cats for quiet companionship, and artists kept them to protect manuscripts. 06:45.428 --> 06:50.670 [SPEAKER_00]: So all in all, it seems like cats have been super helpful to humans, so when did this switch happen? 06:51.270 --> 06:54.832 [SPEAKER_00]: Why did people start to turn the tables and other kind of hating on cats? 06:55.212 --> 07:02.897 [SPEAKER_00]: The cultural shift that turned cats from helpful mouse hunters into witchy symbols of bad luck happened during the 13th century. 07:03.758 --> 07:09.441 [SPEAKER_00]: Before this period medieval Europeans generally tolerated or welcomed cats for their pest control skills. 07:10.082 --> 07:18.167 [SPEAKER_00]: However, a mix of religious anxiety, pable decree, and growing fears of heresy permanently altered their reputation. 07:18.487 --> 07:30.319 [SPEAKER_00]: So the turning point actually happened in 1233 C. The definitive catalyst for the shift was a papal decree called Voxyn Rama issued by Pope Gregory IX and 1233. 07:31.120 --> 07:35.785 [SPEAKER_00]: The papal bowl is a document that was sent to inquisitors hunting heretics in Germany. 07:36.465 --> 07:54.092 [SPEAKER_00]: It claimed that a secret double worshiping cult performed rituals involving a large demonic black cat by explicitly associating felines with Satan, the Catholic Church gave institutional authority to the idea that cats, especially black cats, were agents of evil. 07:55.503 --> 08:05.632 [SPEAKER_00]: And this part is really, really hard to read when I read about this, but it has to be said because it's just such an awful thing to like to know that this actually happened. 08:06.012 --> 08:11.657 [SPEAKER_00]: So across Europe, communities began viewing cats with deep suspicion, and there were. 08:12.618 --> 08:13.559 [SPEAKER_00]: Please, like, trigger warning. 08:13.579 --> 08:21.947 [SPEAKER_00]: This is really tough to say, but there were mass killings, public tortures, and ritual burnings of cats, becoming common during festivals to ward off bad luck. 08:22.267 --> 08:26.991 [SPEAKER_00]: But let's skip to the 14th to 17th century, so the witches and familiars. 08:27.592 --> 08:30.535 [SPEAKER_00]: So as the centuries progressed, the fear of heresy. 08:31.095 --> 08:34.478 [SPEAKER_00]: evolved into the European witch trials cementing the modern stereotype. 08:35.118 --> 08:36.740 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's the shape shift or myth. 08:37.220 --> 08:43.105 [SPEAKER_00]: Superstition spread that witches could transform into black cats to travel invisibly at night and to spy on people. 08:44.146 --> 08:44.747 [SPEAKER_00]: The familiar. 08:45.387 --> 08:52.513 [SPEAKER_00]: Cats were branded as familiar supernatural animal companions, given to witches by the double to assist in casting dark spells. 08:53.474 --> 08:55.515 [SPEAKER_00]: Then we're back to the crazy cat lady origin. 08:56.276 --> 09:04.939 [SPEAKER_00]: isolated elderly women who kept cats for companionship were frequently targeted, accused of witchcraft, and executed alongside their pets. 09:06.199 --> 09:08.660 [SPEAKER_00]: The path of bad luck is another topic here. 09:09.540 --> 09:14.541 [SPEAKER_00]: So we've all heard this too, like, don't let a black cat cross your path, or you'll have bad luck. 09:14.962 --> 09:16.162 [SPEAKER_00]: So this superstition, 09:16.822 --> 09:26.625 [SPEAKER_00]: actually originated in Germanic and Norman folklore because people believed a cat could be a witch in disguise or a demon sent to watch them. 09:27.605 --> 09:34.007 [SPEAKER_00]: Seeing one meant that the devil was paying attention to you or that sudden death was maybe going to happen. 09:34.327 --> 09:41.209 [SPEAKER_00]: The steeply ingrained fear traveled across the Atlantic with European colonists directly influencing events like the Salem 09:43.470 --> 09:53.654 [SPEAKER_00]: It would take until the 18th and 19th centuries, the age of enlightenment and Victorian era for cats to fully regain their status as these beloved household pets. 09:54.895 --> 09:55.955 [SPEAKER_00]: That's so crazy to me. 09:56.435 --> 10:00.997 [SPEAKER_00]: So on the other side of the, you know, the bad luck stuff people were saying. 10:01.697 --> 10:16.985 [SPEAKER_00]: Cats were also actually really seen as good luck charms in different cultures, so while Western Europe was fearing them several cultures across Asia, Africa and parts of Europe viewed black cats specifically as powerful symbols of good luck, wealth and spiritual protection. 10:17.765 --> 10:27.277 [SPEAKER_00]: The primary cultures and traditions were a black cat is considered a highly positive omen, include Japan, so in Japanese folklore, and modern culture. 10:27.817 --> 10:33.804 [SPEAKER_00]: Black cats known as Kuro Neko are celebrated as Fukuneko, meaning lucky cats. 10:34.685 --> 10:43.235 [SPEAKER_00]: So, they're known to ward off evil, because they can see clearly in the dark, they are believed to possess the spiritual power to frighten away demons, illness, and evil energies. 10:43.455 --> 10:53.928 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought this one was kind of cute, they're also kind of seen as romance matchmakers, so a popular superstition states that a single woman who owns a black cat will attract more kind, high-quality suitors. 10:55.027 --> 11:06.274 [SPEAKER_00]: Many Hieneko, while the iconic beckoning cat statues are usually white, black Menikieneko figurines are placed in homes and shops specifically toward off-stalkers, bad luck and disease. 11:06.715 --> 11:09.957 [SPEAKER_00]: I do really believe that cats are spiritual beings like. 11:10.497 --> 11:16.179 [SPEAKER_00]: The way they move, the way they're so, they're quiet, they're observant, they're very protective. 11:16.819 --> 11:26.323 [SPEAKER_00]: I think like people don't look at cats as like this protective pet have in the house because maybe physically it doesn't appear that way, as compared to, you know, having a really big dog, and 11:26.843 --> 11:32.989 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think having a cat in your space does wonders for the energy in the home, it just makes it so calm and beautiful. 11:33.069 --> 11:36.692 [SPEAKER_00]: And I might be biased, I have two cats, but that is genuinely how I feel. 11:36.952 --> 11:42.837 [SPEAKER_00]: Scotland and Ireland, the Celtic lore, they also see cats as a major financial blessing. 11:43.077 --> 11:43.358 [SPEAKER_00]: So... 11:43.918 --> 11:45.258 [SPEAKER_00]: Incoming wealth is a big one. 11:45.378 --> 11:53.121 [SPEAKER_00]: Scottish folklore dictates that if a black cat arrives on your doorstep or porch, it means immediate prosperity and success are coming in the household. 11:53.901 --> 11:55.161 [SPEAKER_00]: And the cat sit. 11:55.521 --> 11:56.562 [SPEAKER_00]: I had never heard of this. 11:56.882 --> 12:06.584 [SPEAKER_00]: Though the legendary cat sit, a spectral black very cat was traded with caution, treating roaming cats with food and warmth was believed to earn the blessing of the goddess Bridget. 12:06.824 --> 12:08.265 [SPEAKER_00]: Maritime and sailing traditions. 12:08.345 --> 12:09.805 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I mentioned 12:13.046 --> 12:17.329 [SPEAKER_00]: So, British and Irish sailors considered black hats to be priceless good luck charms on ships. 12:17.549 --> 12:23.812 [SPEAKER_00]: So, they believed that having a black hat on board guaranteed smooth seas, fair weather, and a safe voyage home valuable. 12:23.972 --> 12:28.675 [SPEAKER_00]: Cargo, they were considered so lucky that their financial value skyrocketed among shipping crews. 12:29.155 --> 12:34.879 [SPEAKER_00]: Pirates also shared this belief, though they thought a cat walking away from a ship meant it was destined to sink. 12:35.099 --> 12:38.541 [SPEAKER_00]: So, the wives of fishermen often kept black hats at home believing the 12:42.643 --> 12:43.403 [SPEAKER_00]: So interesting. 12:44.004 --> 12:50.847 [SPEAKER_00]: So despite mainland Europe's general fear of witches, specific local traditions in the UK and France flipped the script. 12:51.207 --> 12:58.810 [SPEAKER_00]: In the English Midlands, giving a bride a black cat on her wedding day is traditionally believed to bring good luck for utility and a happy marriage. 12:59.150 --> 13:07.334 [SPEAKER_00]: In Southern French folklore, black cats are sometimes called Madagat's Madagat Madagat's, I Pope, I said that right? 13:08.074 --> 13:09.295 [SPEAKER_00]: Also known as Magician Cats. 13:09.895 --> 13:18.983 [SPEAKER_00]: Local peasants believe that if you showed a stray black cat respect and that at the first bite of your dinner, it would reward you with hidden treasure or lifelong wealth. 13:19.243 --> 13:27.150 [SPEAKER_00]: Ancient Egypt, I feel like this one is actually quite known that Egyptians do hold cats like at the highest regard. 13:27.370 --> 13:36.598 [SPEAKER_00]: They were bred in pampered intemples because their sleek black fur closely resembled basted the cat headed goddess of protection, home health and fertility. 13:37.964 --> 14:02.227 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, looking back at the history, this is also fascinating how it seems like the switch up happened from the Catholic Church and their belief of, you know, the devil and associating this with witches and demons and how this has anything to do with cats, but I also wanted to dive into how the portrayal of cats and animation reflects a massive cultural evolution. 14:03.027 --> 14:12.034 [SPEAKER_00]: Western Studios spent decades mirroring these medieval superstitions, whereas Eastern animation historically leaned into the spiritual relevance. 14:12.394 --> 14:19.039 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's changing a lot now, like there's the incredible success of the independent masterpiece Flow, which came out in 2024. 14:19.819 --> 14:23.662 [SPEAKER_00]: And now, Pixar actually has an upcoming film, Gato, which is meant to come out in 2027. 14:25.243 --> 14:49.040 [SPEAKER_00]: And this all represents a major shift in how the West views black cats, so we have a classic Disney formula and I remember always seeing this growing up not with every single movie, but you would kind of notice like a little bit of a pattern here where cats were kind of seen as like sinister and superstitious, not friendly, so for decades Walt Disney animation utilized cats as a visual, a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a 14:49.340 --> 14:57.744 [SPEAKER_00]: shorthand for the villainy, slime manipulation, or witchcraft, and that's actually reinforcing the centuries-old European bias. 14:58.184 --> 15:10.230 [SPEAKER_00]: And Hocus-Pocus in 1993, factory banks is cursed to spend eternity as a black cap by witches, and even though banks as a hero, his physical black cap form is initially feared as a sign of dark magic. 15:10.510 --> 15:20.154 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a bunch of these like highly pampered snobbish cats that are there to torment the innocent lower class protagonists, which is usually like the mice or the dogs. 15:20.874 --> 15:22.174 [SPEAKER_00]: And we see this 100% in 1950s. 15:24.453 --> 15:25.013 [SPEAKER_00]: Cinderella. 15:25.294 --> 15:26.034 [SPEAKER_00]: We have Lucifer. 15:26.835 --> 15:29.537 [SPEAKER_00]: The malicious overweight cat. 15:30.417 --> 15:32.539 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is the stepmothers cat. 15:33.499 --> 15:34.880 [SPEAKER_00]: Not a very nice cat in that movie. 15:35.521 --> 15:41.945 [SPEAKER_00]: We also have the Siamese cats who get lady and lady in the tramp came out in 1955. 15:42.386 --> 15:47.849 [SPEAKER_00]: They got her into trouble and it's seen as like they're being manipulative and they're being very deliberate about this. 15:49.030 --> 15:56.978 [SPEAKER_00]: And we also have Felicia, the great mouse detective 1986 is the spoiled gluttonous pet of the villainous professor, Radigan. 15:57.839 --> 16:07.929 [SPEAKER_00]: But when you look at Disney in sharp contrast, Japanese anime has traditionally leaned into East Asian folklore, where cats, including the Black 16:13.194 --> 16:16.436 [SPEAKER_00]: We have Gigi in Kiki's delivery service, 1989. 16:16.456 --> 16:23.240 [SPEAKER_00]: Gigi on studio Ghibli is depicted as Kiki's loyal, highly anxious and deeply supportive best friend. 16:23.740 --> 16:26.182 [SPEAKER_00]: And we cannot forget about Luna in Sailor Moon. 16:26.622 --> 16:30.224 [SPEAKER_00]: Luna is a wise talking black cat with a crescent moon on her forehead. 16:30.604 --> 16:36.768 [SPEAKER_00]: So instead of aiding evil, she acts as a mentor, guiding Sailor Moon and unlocking her heroic world-saving powers. 16:37.368 --> 16:56.818 [SPEAKER_00]: So then when we go back to where this is happening in modern day, as I brought it, flow and goto, let's get into it a little bit deeper because you know what's beautiful is that really these films also changed the public perception and sparked real world rescue adoptions for black cats which is so, so sweet and it makes me really happy. 16:57.258 --> 17:02.221 [SPEAKER_00]: Flow was actually mistaken for a Disney Pixar project because of the stunning visual depth. 17:03.161 --> 17:07.285 [SPEAKER_00]: Flow is a critically acclaimed dialogue-free indie animated feature. 17:07.605 --> 17:25.060 [SPEAKER_00]: The character is this like quiet, incredibly realistic, nameless black cat who's surviving this massive flood, and there was a crazy adoption surge once this film came out, because the film showcases the cat's vulnerability, raw courage, and deep emotional bond with other animals, it captured hearts everywhere. 17:25.841 --> 17:30.125 [SPEAKER_00]: Shelters reported a tangible spike in the adoption of black and dark-ford cats, 17:30.765 --> 17:36.150 [SPEAKER_00]: who traditionally suffer from the lowest adoption rates due to these superstitions from centuries ago. 17:36.590 --> 17:40.414 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, Pixar answered with Gato, that's meant to come out in 2027. 17:41.114 --> 17:52.565 [SPEAKER_00]: Seeing the global love for these misunderstood felines, Pixar animation studios officially announced their own project, centering on a black cat titled Gato, slated for March 5th, 2027, theatrical release. 17:53.305 --> 17:56.327 [SPEAKER_00]: The plot is that the film takes place in Venice, Italy. 17:56.847 --> 18:03.832 [SPEAKER_00]: It follows Niro, who's voiced by Mark Ruffalo, a black cat who is actively shunned by local superstitious humans. 18:04.332 --> 18:10.556 [SPEAKER_00]: Niro is forced to break away from a local feline mob boss to find his true purpose through an unexpected human friendship. 18:10.976 --> 18:18.899 [SPEAKER_00]: even its teaser posters have generated massive praise from animal rescue communities for tackling those anti-black cats superstitions head on. 18:19.240 --> 18:30.424 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's like a lot of the history I was able to dig up on specifically about black cats but also cats in general as a whole and because this is room for us podcast we got to talk about the gay stuff of course. 18:30.844 --> 18:35.606 [SPEAKER_00]: Why the connection with women and cats and specifically queer women? 18:35.786 --> 18:37.047 [SPEAKER_00]: There is a deep connection there. 18:37.628 --> 18:44.256 [SPEAKER_00]: And the deep connection is a fascinating intersection of history, psychology, sociology, and shared cultural archetypes. 18:44.476 --> 18:53.207 [SPEAKER_00]: So while the Cat Lady trope was once used as a weapon to isolate women, it has been completely reclaimed as a symbol of independence, safety, and community. 18:53.547 --> 19:00.550 [SPEAKER_00]: I put together these points to kind of sum it all up and I'd be so curious to hear what you guys think and why you think there's such a connection there. 19:00.910 --> 19:04.351 [SPEAKER_00]: Historical solidarity, there's that outcast connection. 19:05.072 --> 19:08.893 [SPEAKER_00]: For centuries, women and cats share the exact same social status. 19:09.334 --> 19:15.316 [SPEAKER_00]: They were valued when they were useful in subservient but demonized when they exhibited independence. 19:16.476 --> 19:17.777 [SPEAKER_00]: So shared persecution, 19:20.478 --> 19:29.647 [SPEAKER_00]: The women targeted were often those living on the margins of society, widows unmarried women or those who didn't conform to traditional family structures. 19:30.288 --> 19:32.210 [SPEAKER_00]: They kept cats for companionship. 19:32.730 --> 19:37.255 [SPEAKER_00]: The patriarchy of the time branded both the independent woman and the independent animal, 19:37.915 --> 19:47.326 [SPEAKER_00]: as heretical and dangerous, because of this history marginalized groups including the queer community, feel a natural historic kinship with cats. 19:47.927 --> 19:55.315 [SPEAKER_00]: Both half histories of being misunderstood, feared or labeled as deviant simply for existing outside these like conventional norms. 19:55.635 --> 19:57.818 [SPEAKER_00]: The behavioral alignment we love, 19:58.158 --> 20:02.360 [SPEAKER_00]: the independence and consent that cats show, and it's like so natural to them. 20:02.560 --> 20:10.943 [SPEAKER_00]: Cats interact with the world in a way that deeply resonates with feminist and queer dynamics, particularly regarding those personal boundaries. 20:11.403 --> 20:14.364 [SPEAKER_00]: A cat's trust must be earned on their terms. 20:14.904 --> 20:15.745 [SPEAKER_00]: and I respect it. 20:16.265 --> 20:19.528 [SPEAKER_00]: They require you to read their body language and respect their boundaries. 20:20.028 --> 20:24.532 [SPEAKER_00]: Many women and queer individuals appreciate the focus on mutual respect and consent. 20:24.992 --> 20:30.497 [SPEAKER_00]: Historically, domesticated dogs were seen as symbols of masculine control hunting and obedience. 20:31.077 --> 20:33.639 [SPEAKER_00]: Cats conversely refused to be fully mastered. 20:33.980 --> 20:38.824 [SPEAKER_00]: They represent autonomy, self-sufficiency, and a refusal to perform for the entertainment of others. 20:39.444 --> 20:40.925 [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, you might hear people 20:43.227 --> 20:45.970 [SPEAKER_00]: They have a cat and that cat runs the house. 20:46.210 --> 20:47.151 [SPEAKER_00]: It's on their terms. 20:47.211 --> 20:48.392 [SPEAKER_00]: They decide what they want to do. 20:48.532 --> 20:49.914 [SPEAKER_00]: They'll come to you when they want to. 20:50.114 --> 20:51.736 [SPEAKER_00]: They are very independent. 20:51.816 --> 20:54.378 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is something I really appreciate about them. 20:54.578 --> 20:57.081 [SPEAKER_00]: There's also the queer subculture and chosen families. 20:57.501 --> 21:06.029 [SPEAKER_00]: So within lesbian, bisexual, queer, plus plus plus spaces, cats have evolved from simple pets into a foundational, like cultural staple. 21:06.850 --> 21:12.811 [SPEAKER_00]: There's actually the lesbian cat aesthetic and queer sub-culture owning cats is widely embraced. 21:13.311 --> 21:15.692 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like an inside joke and also like a patch of honor. 21:16.192 --> 21:21.953 [SPEAKER_00]: You know when you're going up with all your queer friends and you might just end up talking about how cute your cats are, like that really does happen. 21:22.253 --> 21:31.715 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a verse the straight nuclear family idea, which is like a husband, a wife, 2.5 kids, and by 0.5 I mean that they have a golden retriever. 21:32.095 --> 21:33.236 [SPEAKER_00]: you hear that all the time. 21:33.556 --> 21:42.801 [SPEAKER_00]: So you're actually replacing that traditional family with your chosen family, centered around low demand, but also high comfort animal companionship. 21:42.981 --> 21:55.508 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, within queer history, this is very, very common queer people do frequently experience these higher rates of social anxiety, rejection or displacement from their biological families. 21:56.008 --> 21:57.509 [SPEAKER_00]: Having a cat 22:02.091 --> 22:10.798 [SPEAKER_00]: A cat doesn't care about your gender identity, your sexual orientation, they just feel safe with you and they want to be in your presence. 22:10.838 --> 22:16.522 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's so many studies more about how people don't think that their cats miss them. 22:16.602 --> 22:26.809 [SPEAKER_00]: There's such a big misconception of like, and I could go probably go on about this forever, but like if you leave your cat alone, if you're on vacation, they don't care about you. 22:27.210 --> 22:29.051 [SPEAKER_00]: All they care about is their food, if they're literally 22:30.552 --> 22:36.637 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's not true at all, a cat misses you, and they really recognize you by their scent. 22:37.157 --> 22:40.019 [SPEAKER_00]: Fairmons are so, or sorry, by your scent. 22:40.539 --> 22:48.685 [SPEAKER_00]: Fairmons are so big for cats, and they know your scent anywhere, and they actually can measure the time you've been gone. 22:48.845 --> 22:54.589 [SPEAKER_00]: The more your scent is fading away from them, and that was so heartbreaking, I remember hearing about that. 22:55.590 --> 23:09.319 [SPEAKER_00]: I saw it somewhere on Instagram and I just immediately thought, how am I ever going to leave my cats again if I go on vacation like we always have someone watching them and like we know they're safe, but your cat remembers you and they know you because of how you smell. 23:09.679 --> 23:12.481 [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's so sweet and they're very intuitive in that way. 23:12.781 --> 23:16.764 [SPEAKER_00]: There's also the introversion and domestic sanctuary. 23:17.384 --> 23:18.024 [SPEAKER_00]: topic here. 23:18.404 --> 23:23.967 [SPEAKER_00]: Queer spaces are usually like very loud bars, clubs, their nightlife. 23:24.307 --> 23:27.388 [SPEAKER_00]: That can lead to social burnout as much as that can be really fun. 23:27.948 --> 23:32.090 [SPEAKER_00]: But you have the ultimate home body companion with you and your kitty. 23:32.670 --> 23:37.372 [SPEAKER_00]: Cats are the perfect anchors for creating a peaceful quiet domestic sanctuary. 23:37.872 --> 23:40.193 [SPEAKER_00]: They provide companionship without requiring 23:41.093 --> 23:48.699 [SPEAKER_00]: like highly visible public social interactions that also come with like walking your dog in the neighborhood because you have to do that with cats. 23:49.240 --> 23:52.963 [SPEAKER_00]: You can be in the comfort of your own home and you're playing with them, you're cuddling with them. 23:52.983 --> 23:56.205 [SPEAKER_00]: It does provide a sense of common in your space. 23:56.686 --> 24:01.429 [SPEAKER_00]: I pulled this info from an article on rainbow and co.uk and 24:02.310 --> 24:06.092 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to describe what it does say because I did find it so insightful. 24:06.252 --> 24:10.454 [SPEAKER_00]: The connection with cats and lesbians goes back to early lesbian feminism. 24:10.974 --> 24:17.617 [SPEAKER_00]: When cats were often seen as the ultimate symbol of independence, if you've ever lived with a cat, you get it. 24:18.157 --> 24:24.820 [SPEAKER_00]: They're completely comfortable setting boundaries during their own thing, and deciding when, and if they want your attention. 24:25.300 --> 24:28.322 [SPEAKER_00]: That independence became associated with lesbians. 24:28.962 --> 24:36.905 [SPEAKER_00]: Especially because queer women were challenging the idea that women needed to fit into a traditional patriarchal role to have a fulfilling life. 24:37.125 --> 24:39.546 [SPEAKER_00]: Then there's the whole crazy cat lady stereotype. 24:39.766 --> 24:43.628 [SPEAKER_00]: The image of a woman living alone with a bunch of cats completely outside. 24:44.028 --> 24:48.311 [SPEAKER_00]: the expectations of marriage, children, and conventional femininity. 24:48.471 --> 24:52.815 [SPEAKER_00]: But when you look at it through a queer lens, that image starts to feel a little different. 24:53.435 --> 24:58.719 [SPEAKER_00]: What if the woman living with her cats wasn't actually alone, but building a life with another woman? 24:58.899 --> 25:00.381 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get to the witches. 25:01.061 --> 25:05.122 [SPEAKER_00]: because apparently lesbians and cats couldn't escape the witchy allegations either. 25:05.443 --> 25:11.925 [SPEAKER_00]: Cats have long been associated with witches, particularly black cats, who were seen as their mysterious little companions. 25:12.665 --> 25:17.467 [SPEAKER_00]: Witches themselves became symbols of women rejecting the expectations placed on them. 25:17.867 --> 25:28.451 [SPEAKER_00]: marriage, femininity, gender roles, and basically the idea that women should behave a certain way to be accepted, which brings us to the modern idea of the black cat lesbian. 25:28.591 --> 25:32.713 [SPEAKER_00]: You know when you guys hear that like are you either a golden retriever lesbian or a black cat lesbian? 25:33.653 --> 25:34.314 [SPEAKER_00]: It's fascinating. 25:35.354 --> 25:40.976 [SPEAKER_00]: This is usually used to describe a queer woman who has that mysterious, independent, slightly intimidating energy. 25:41.617 --> 25:50.420 [SPEAKER_00]: She might be femme, she might be effortlessly cool, and she definitely has no problem showing her claws or being brutally honest when someone crosses a line or her boundary. 25:50.901 --> 25:58.604 [SPEAKER_00]: So we love that energy, we love the blackhead energy, I don't see that as being cold or aloof, which a lot of people might say because 25:59.624 --> 26:05.468 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you're not the golden retriever who's just friendly with everyone and and maybe has less boundaries and golden retrievers I love you. 26:05.528 --> 26:10.411 [SPEAKER_00]: I love you so much, but I feel like that is just a fact Dogs were bred to be obedient. 26:10.511 --> 26:18.316 [SPEAKER_00]: They were bred to be like workers for humans and so When you're not getting your way with the cat That's okay. 26:18.576 --> 26:27.422 [SPEAKER_00]: That's how it's meant to be they have boundaries too, but some people aren't gonna like that And that's where like the black cat versus golden retriever personality types start to come to play 26:28.588 --> 26:38.191 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I think women and cats are similar in a way, maybe we recognize ourselves in these animals. 26:38.911 --> 26:45.933 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to conclude this episode here with like, next time you decide to say, like, you hate cats. 26:46.884 --> 26:52.207 [SPEAKER_00]: I really want to ask you why, like what is the real reason and what is the deeper meaning here? 26:52.808 --> 27:02.954 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe you don't know the answer, but I would like challenge you to dig a little bit deeper to maybe look at yourself and understand where is this hatred coming from. 27:04.077 --> 27:10.443 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it should ever just be like dogs versus cats or I'm such a dog person compared to a cat person. 27:10.483 --> 27:16.108 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they're both animals with their own unique qualities and I am such a dog lover myself. 27:16.288 --> 27:21.053 [SPEAKER_00]: I love dogs and one day in my life I would love to own a dog like that would be my dream. 27:21.253 --> 27:21.793 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to. 27:22.814 --> 27:30.019 [SPEAKER_00]: but owning cats for the past three years, like being a mom to my cute little children, you know, best so-and-so, they're my whole life. 27:30.119 --> 27:35.222 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't, I can't imagine actually life without a cat in my house hold, ever. 27:35.667 --> 27:41.210 [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't get the cat hate, I don't get it, I don't support it, and I'm not coming from a judgemental place. 27:41.390 --> 27:51.917 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to know why, because after I was diving into more research and learning more about these like patriarchal views, I don't even think people are intentional when they're saying it. 27:52.017 --> 27:58.801 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's something that has been fed to us by society, and I've been guilty of being that person when I was younger. 27:59.321 --> 28:22.350 [SPEAKER_00]: you know saying like I don't think I'm a cat person I'm a dog person or I'm uncomfortable around cats like I had that moment when I was maybe in like my early 20s I remember a cat had hissed at me when I was staying at an Airbnb in Montreal it was funny the Airbnb like we knew the the host through one of our friends so she did leave her cat there so we could take care of the cat while we read Oshiaga and 28:23.590 --> 28:38.925 [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember being nervous around the cat, like visibly nervous, but now after owning cats and being with them, I can understand, like this cat was probably just a certain boundary honestly, and I probably approached the cat like a little too excitable. 28:39.206 --> 28:42.249 [SPEAKER_00]: But I've been so that person before, and I just think I want to slow it. 28:42.849 --> 28:58.503 [SPEAKER_00]: take accountability for that and know like you know what I was a little ignorant to what I would say in the past and I just found like research and googling more about these animals was so fascinating and to see why that switch up happened is actually like very very heartbreaking. 28:59.543 --> 29:06.167 [SPEAKER_00]: So with that, I challenge you to do the same and I hope you take away some points from this episode. 29:06.307 --> 29:12.950 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope if you have your cats or cat, you love on them a little bit, you give them cuddles when they want to. 29:13.350 --> 29:16.232 [SPEAKER_00]: No, but in all seriousness, like, really, really do. 29:16.252 --> 29:20.234 [SPEAKER_00]: I had a lot of fun recording this episode and I hope you learned something. 29:20.934 --> 29:22.735 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I will see you next week. 29:22.855 --> 29:23.956 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for tuning in.