WEBVTT 00:11.198 --> 00:23.708 [SPEAKER_01]: In this episode of Consider Before Consuming, we're joined by Madison, a former only fans creator who spent three and a half years creating pornographic content before ultimately deciding to leave the industry. 00:24.509 --> 00:28.072 [SPEAKER_01]: Madison was first exposed to pornography at just seven years old. 00:28.833 --> 00:32.876 [SPEAKER_01]: By 12, she had begun imagining becoming a porn performer herself. 00:33.556 --> 00:38.601 [SPEAKER_01]: And shortly after turning 18, she began creating and selling explicit content. 00:39.582 --> 00:54.531 [SPEAKER_01]: In this conversation, Madison shares what she thought life as an only fans creator would look like, how the reality compared, and why the control and empowerment she initially felt began to disappear as subscriber demands increased. 00:55.011 --> 01:02.616 [SPEAKER_01]: She also talks about body image, objectification, the difficulty of leaving the industry, and what she wishes young people 01:08.530 --> 01:10.912 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, Madison, thank you so much for joining me today. 01:11.112 --> 01:13.034 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking forward to having this conversation with you. 01:13.434 --> 01:21.301 [SPEAKER_02]: To start, can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about who you are, what your interests are, how you got here on this podcast? 01:22.082 --> 01:22.362 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure. 01:22.863 --> 01:23.844 [SPEAKER_03]: My name is Madison. 01:24.144 --> 01:25.285 [SPEAKER_03]: I am 25. 01:25.465 --> 01:26.346 [SPEAKER_03]: I live in Maine. 01:27.046 --> 01:30.750 [SPEAKER_03]: I am here to talk about my only fans experience. 01:30.830 --> 01:34.233 [SPEAKER_03]: I was in only fans in the porn industry for three and a half years. 01:34.841 --> 01:37.863 [SPEAKER_03]: I've been out of it for just about the same amount of time as I was in it. 01:38.403 --> 01:43.086 [SPEAKER_03]: Currently, I'm very involved in the roller skating atmosphere, the Circus atmosphere. 01:43.226 --> 01:49.569 [SPEAKER_03]: That's like my true fulfillment, true passion, and really excited to talk to you guys today. 01:50.310 --> 01:51.070 [SPEAKER_02]: That's amazing. 01:51.250 --> 01:58.975 [SPEAKER_02]: Roller skating as an adult is so much different than as a small child when your center of gravity was closer to the ground. 01:59.055 --> 02:00.776 [SPEAKER_02]: So I continue to try. 02:01.816 --> 02:02.397 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely. 02:03.680 --> 02:11.286 [SPEAKER_02]: Logan, we go back before you're only fans experience all the way back to the first time that you were exposed to pornography. 02:11.406 --> 02:12.887 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you tell us a little bit about that? 02:12.987 --> 02:13.788 [SPEAKER_02]: How old you were? 02:13.808 --> 02:16.169 [SPEAKER_02]: And what impact did that have on you? 02:17.469 --> 02:23.853 [SPEAKER_03]: So the first time that I was ever exposed to porn that I remember, it was very vividly that I remember this. 02:24.554 --> 02:27.116 [SPEAKER_03]: I was shown it by an older cousin, female. 02:27.156 --> 02:28.357 [SPEAKER_03]: She was a year older than me. 02:28.497 --> 02:29.497 [SPEAKER_03]: I was seven years old. 02:29.597 --> 02:30.278 [SPEAKER_03]: She was eight. 02:31.459 --> 02:33.100 [SPEAKER_03]: She had discovered it amongst herself. 02:33.460 --> 02:37.803 [SPEAKER_03]: I've never really gotten into that deeper conversation with her about how she stumbled upon it. 02:38.423 --> 02:39.824 [SPEAKER_03]: All I know is that she had introduced 02:45.912 --> 02:56.498 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, she typed in some stuff and she showed me and I saw them literally everything, very, very young, very, very young, seven years old. 02:57.458 --> 02:57.738 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 02:58.399 --> 03:03.561 [SPEAKER_02]: And you've said that growing up, you actually wanted to become a porn performer. 03:04.102 --> 03:09.905 [SPEAKER_02]: What messages or experiences led you to see that as something that you wanted to aspire to. 03:11.331 --> 03:17.976 [SPEAKER_03]: So when I was 12 is more so when I started considering the idea of oh, maybe I can grow up and do this. 03:18.497 --> 03:26.783 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, between 7 and 12, I had watched it intermittently, but as I was, you know, I'm going through puberty and stuff. 03:26.803 --> 03:30.145 [SPEAKER_03]: I leaned a lot on that for education and stuff like that. 03:31.086 --> 03:31.947 [SPEAKER_03]: So I started to. 03:32.487 --> 03:47.562 [SPEAKER_03]: expose myself to it a lot more and at 12 years old I ended up getting into contact with a very well-known porn star I'll leave names out of it just for everyone else's sake, but 03:49.270 --> 04:09.243 [SPEAKER_03]: He had kind of led me into believing it was this like very glamorous thing and no easy money so much fun, all pleasure, no pain, no suffering, no bullshit part of my language, but from there it just kind of 04:09.979 --> 04:13.820 [SPEAKER_03]: was portrayed to me as this very glamorous thing easy to do. 04:13.880 --> 04:19.682 [SPEAKER_03]: I could have everything I wanted, you know, I'd be desired and so on and so forth. 04:19.782 --> 04:29.344 [SPEAKER_03]: And that paired with my eagerness to entertain which I do still have led me into exactly what I did, which was starting only fins and 04:32.552 --> 04:32.812 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 04:33.432 --> 04:36.353 [SPEAKER_02]: And you say you were in touch with him at 12 years old. 04:36.794 --> 04:46.597 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, so many parents out there of 12 year olds, young kids, that's probably not even something that crosses their mind as something that's even possible. 04:47.678 --> 04:50.339 [SPEAKER_02]: Did this performer, this well-known performer know? 04:50.379 --> 04:53.500 [SPEAKER_02]: You were 12 years old when you got in contact with him? 04:54.180 --> 04:55.761 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 04:56.361 --> 04:58.202 [SPEAKER_03]: And he straight away from, 05:00.918 --> 05:22.315 [SPEAKER_03]: He straight away from having sexual conversations with me, like it was never a sexual relationship between him and I, having said, obviously, still very inappropriate, but he was the one who kind of educated me on what the behind the scenes of porn looked like, still painted that glamorous image of it, but 05:23.675 --> 05:34.498 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I was very misled by him as well as having unrespected internet access and seeing what it looked like from the outside in on my own as well. 05:35.205 --> 05:35.465 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 05:35.986 --> 05:47.694 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, during your teenage years from that kind of first contact point with him until you did entry the industry later, were you speaking to any adults in your life about this? 05:47.734 --> 05:59.403 [SPEAKER_02]: Did you have any trusted adults you felt like you could go to ask questions or you said you leaned on this a lot for education, were there other people in your life that you were also getting any education from? 06:01.423 --> 06:02.203 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yes. 06:02.383 --> 06:12.065 [SPEAKER_03]: And no, I think the adults that I did lean on in my life talking about, you know, the porn realm and stuff like that. 06:12.125 --> 06:23.968 [SPEAKER_03]: They were just as educated as I was, which obviously just field the fire of me continuing to learn from porn rather than a more educated adult. 06:25.818 --> 06:27.960 [SPEAKER_02]: Which I think is really important to point out. 06:27.980 --> 06:31.483 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not that you didn't have people you could go to to ask questions. 06:32.724 --> 06:45.155 [SPEAKER_02]: It's that they didn't have information as well, which I think so many parents today are also lacking an information about a lot of what's going on online and what kids have access to as well. 06:45.895 --> 06:46.556 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. 06:47.377 --> 06:47.937 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. 06:48.898 --> 06:57.567 [SPEAKER_02]: So before you created content yourself, you kind of mentioned this idea that he gave you of what the industry might be like, how glamorous it was. 06:58.328 --> 07:02.192 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that how you thought of the industry entering it? 07:02.492 --> 07:06.897 [SPEAKER_02]: What was kind of your idea of what you were embarking on? 07:08.652 --> 07:19.137 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, I was really painted this idea between this male porn star himself as well as my personal exposure to it, you know. 07:29.311 --> 07:38.438 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not necessarily the case, you know, maybe slim, slim, slim chance of that happening, but it's, it's really not like what it's painted to be. 07:38.458 --> 07:39.679 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, at all. 07:40.419 --> 07:51.127 [SPEAKER_02]: Were you considering any other forms of work or was this kind of the only thing that you, you know, you had on your brain of the secondizer in 18, I've got it all figured out, this is the plan. 07:52.327 --> 08:04.796 [SPEAKER_03]: Likewise, to now, I still was very involved in the circus world and wanting to do entertainment whether it be in a local circus or something like larger like Cirque de Soleil or something. 08:06.893 --> 08:08.975 [SPEAKER_03]: The desire to entertain was always there. 08:09.775 --> 08:15.419 [SPEAKER_03]: But when I turned 18, because it was painted as so easy, I went right for the porn route. 08:16.440 --> 08:27.928 [SPEAKER_03]: I actually started on what was called premium Snapchat, which was essentially just a Snapchat separate from my own that I advertised, and that's where I would distribute my content. 08:29.029 --> 08:33.132 [SPEAKER_03]: And then a little bit before COVID is when I made my only fan's page. 08:35.158 --> 08:45.403 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, where there are things about platforms like premium Snapchat or only fans that made it feel different from the traditional porn industry for you. 08:47.157 --> 09:04.808 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because it was painted in a way of like, oh, on my own boss, I can make my own schedule, I don't have someone over me telling me how I need to pose and things that I need to do as well as the big issue in the porn industry that I feel like a lot of people don't talk about, which is 09:05.508 --> 09:16.490 [SPEAKER_03]: the amount of drugs in the industry and the lack of consent that really is there because of the drugs in the pressure from having so many different directors and cameras around you. 09:17.691 --> 09:19.951 [SPEAKER_03]: Thankfully, that was something I never got involved in. 09:21.591 --> 09:25.172 [SPEAKER_03]: But with only fans, you still kind of have bosses. 09:25.232 --> 09:27.613 [SPEAKER_03]: Your clientele are your bosses. 09:27.653 --> 09:31.233 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, they are pressuring you to do things that you may not necessarily want to do. 09:34.654 --> 09:37.916 [SPEAKER_03]: which is enticing to make you step out of your comfort zone. 09:40.758 --> 09:45.120 [SPEAKER_03]: So it really is the same, the difference on the same coin, honestly. 09:45.420 --> 09:48.362 [SPEAKER_03]: Just on a smaller scale, I'll say, right? 09:49.022 --> 09:53.825 [SPEAKER_02]: It's almost like it was pitched as something empowering at first, right? 09:53.965 --> 09:58.768 [SPEAKER_02]: Of absolute, it could be your own boss and you have, you know, a say and you have control. 10:00.229 --> 10:01.530 [SPEAKER_02]: But it sounds like it was, 10:02.170 --> 10:08.815 [SPEAKER_02]: It you've kind of found out it it wasn't empowering and when you mention that You still have bosses. 10:08.855 --> 10:10.577 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you tell us a little bit more about that? 10:10.597 --> 10:16.101 [SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of people who may not be familiar with only pins Don't truly understand what that pressure is like 10:17.587 --> 10:32.580 [SPEAKER_03]: So with only vendor not getting paid directly from the platform, of course, all of your income comes from your subscribers and, you know, whether it be through only fans itself or people you develop contact with outside of that industry, be content elsewhere. 10:33.421 --> 10:43.590 [SPEAKER_03]: But the people who pay your bills, they are in control of, essentially, your whole life if you're not really willing to do more and more and more stuff. 10:44.335 --> 10:47.016 [SPEAKER_03]: You're not going to continue making money from the same people. 10:47.116 --> 10:49.757 [SPEAKER_03]: And you're going to have to build new clientele all over again. 10:49.777 --> 11:00.601 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's really impossible to build a consistent clientele without continuously doing more and more and more for them. 11:01.341 --> 11:04.963 [SPEAKER_03]: So in a sense, they were my bosses. 11:05.083 --> 11:06.443 [SPEAKER_03]: Because they paid my bills. 11:07.084 --> 11:09.304 [SPEAKER_03]: They controlled whether I had a roof over my head, 11:14.153 --> 11:19.075 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, were you surprised by that when you started creating content on the events? 11:21.116 --> 11:26.299 [SPEAKER_03]: At first, I did feel the experience of, oh, like this is so empowering. 11:26.319 --> 11:27.199 [SPEAKER_03]: This is so easy. 11:27.219 --> 11:29.420 [SPEAKER_03]: Like at first, it really does feel like that. 11:29.500 --> 11:37.944 [SPEAKER_03]: But as you get further into it and start making it more of like, like taking it serious, I'll say. 11:39.828 --> 11:54.226 [SPEAKER_03]: You do realize how little it really is like that, but the immediate flood of attention that you get when you first start it, the immediate amount of money that you get from being the new girl, especially being as young as I was, especially 18. 11:55.467 --> 12:10.454 [SPEAKER_03]: um you're much more likely to make a lot more money doing it at that point but as you get older and you're not the new girl anymore your money starts to kind of go down and that rose-colored glass kind of comes off your eyes. 12:11.494 --> 12:17.097 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah was there anything else that was really surprising to you when you started creating content on only fans? 12:19.141 --> 12:42.816 [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of the requests weren't normal sexual things, like a lot of people wanted you or I to do really dark things, like people's fantasies, especially when they've been so exposed to porn and then watching it so much for so long, you kind of need more and more stimulus to get that same fix. 12:45.153 --> 13:07.266 [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people don't talk about this, but only fan creators are more so the ones who are having to fulfill those fantasies rather than just any traditional porn performer, honestly, because it is so much more one-on-one of an experience that your client tells feels a lot more comfortable to ask you to do, like weirder and weirder stuff as time goes on. 13:08.210 --> 13:08.470 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 13:10.231 --> 13:13.774 [SPEAKER_02]: And that has a correlation with how much money you can make as well. 13:13.974 --> 13:14.755 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 13:14.895 --> 13:18.617 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a lot of people see headlines about creators making huge amounts of money. 13:19.558 --> 13:22.940 [SPEAKER_02]: But can you speak, I know you've mentioned it a little bit. 13:22.960 --> 13:31.346 [SPEAKER_02]: But can you speak to how your experience compared to that perception and then also how these kind of unique content requests 13:36.930 --> 13:40.833 [SPEAKER_03]: So, long story short, it didn't pay the bills in full. 13:40.953 --> 13:50.701 [SPEAKER_03]: I did also have to have another job on top of that, which actually paid more than what only fans ever did pay me, no matter how much effort I was putting into it or what I was doing. 13:51.582 --> 14:03.392 [SPEAKER_03]: But the reality of you're making a lot of money to the point where you're living in luxury lavish, like glamorous, it's just not the case for 99.9% of only fans creators. 14:06.406 --> 14:18.534 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, of course, those that slim, slim chance that you can live that glamorous life, but it's not as widespread as people painted out to the right. 14:20.015 --> 14:24.919 [SPEAKER_02]: Did you see the requests you got from subscribers shift over time? 14:24.959 --> 14:33.324 [SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned initially right when you were signing up right at 18, the things you were doing to make money. 14:33.945 --> 14:34.025 [SPEAKER_02]: Can 14:37.616 --> 14:41.238 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, they just got much more perverse over time. 14:41.298 --> 14:45.039 [SPEAKER_03]: The longer I continued relationships with specific people. 14:45.439 --> 14:56.364 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, when you first meet someone and they haven't seen you do anything yet, it's, it's a lot more convincing for them to want to buy like more normal stuff. 14:56.464 --> 15:06.048 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll say, but the further you build into a relationship one on one would somebody, the less excited they are about the the basic, the normal stuff. 15:07.214 --> 15:10.116 [SPEAKER_03]: And they want to see you do crazier things. 15:10.857 --> 15:11.057 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 15:11.797 --> 15:16.000 [SPEAKER_02]: And did you notice your own boundary shifting along with those requests? 15:17.201 --> 15:22.604 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, because when I first started, I started out with just still images. 15:22.784 --> 15:26.126 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't feel comfortable doing any video content or anything like that. 15:26.987 --> 15:32.870 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, partially because I was portrayed the idea of, oh, I can make all this money by just the pictures. 15:32.890 --> 15:34.311 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have to do anything crazy. 15:36.462 --> 15:45.009 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, when you're, when you're given a certain dollar value amount, and they say, oh, you, you only have to push yourself this far out of your boundary. 15:45.049 --> 15:47.951 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not too far, but it's a little bit out of your comfort zone. 15:48.712 --> 15:51.474 [SPEAKER_03]: It's really easy to say, okay, I'll just do it this one time. 15:52.215 --> 16:01.803 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll do it one time, and then it becomes part of your day to day, and then gradually, your boundary just keeps shifting a little further as that dollar amount goes up. 16:02.573 --> 16:04.117 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 16:04.137 --> 16:12.577 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, was there a point where you began to realize that the work was affecting you differently than you had expected it would? 16:14.547 --> 16:25.354 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, um, something I feel like a lot of either current porn performers or retired porn performers don't talk about is like the body image and comparison stuff that comes with that. 16:25.835 --> 16:34.761 [SPEAKER_03]: I did a lot of comparing myself to other only fans creators who I would see making more money than me, whether that was a facade or not, you know. 16:36.509 --> 16:42.971 [SPEAKER_03]: Contouring my body in certain ways to make myself look good, retaking shots because I didn't think I looked good enough to make the money. 16:43.811 --> 16:51.913 [SPEAKER_03]: So body image was a really, really big struggle for me as I got further into the porn industry and I was very critical. 16:52.673 --> 16:56.654 [SPEAKER_03]: And I felt like I had to be because that was how I made my money. 16:56.714 --> 16:58.294 [SPEAKER_03]: If I didn't look good, I wasn't making money. 16:58.494 --> 17:01.115 [SPEAKER_03]: If I wasn't doing more and more, I wasn't making money. 17:01.889 --> 17:02.169 [SPEAKER_02]: right. 17:02.950 --> 17:07.153 [SPEAKER_02]: What was your own relationship with pornography like throughout this experience? 17:07.454 --> 17:18.783 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, were there ways that you could see now that your own experience with pornography was maybe impacting you in this experience as well? 17:20.254 --> 17:39.363 [SPEAKER_03]: I was a porn consumer, like I said, all through teenagehood, but even while I was an only fans creator, some of it being on my own personal time, some of it just being by natural promoting it and interacting and networking with other creators who did the same thing, I was exposed to their content. 17:40.211 --> 17:50.414 [SPEAKER_03]: And the longer I was in that realm, I started to realize how fake everything about porn is like so much of it is fake. 17:50.494 --> 17:51.514 [SPEAKER_03]: Everything is staged. 17:51.674 --> 17:54.935 [SPEAKER_03]: Every, every Mona scripted, every line is scripted. 17:54.995 --> 18:01.817 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just not a representation of what real sacks and real intimacy looks like at all. 18:02.657 --> 18:02.757 [SPEAKER_03]: And 18:03.179 --> 18:14.444 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's really harmful for young women and young children in general, like myself at the time, when I first started to be getting their sexual education from pornographic content. 18:14.464 --> 18:16.465 [SPEAKER_03]: Because it's so not real. 18:16.765 --> 18:17.565 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not real. 18:18.326 --> 18:19.366 [SPEAKER_03]: Everything is faked. 18:20.947 --> 18:28.310 [SPEAKER_02]: And the more you realized that it did it shift your own relationship with pornography as a consumer, 18:31.246 --> 18:52.690 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yes, and no, I guess I still kind of fell into the habit of watching it, even knowing that it was fake, um, personally because participating in intimate encounters with other people wasn't really much of my thing at the time. 18:52.810 --> 18:57.311 [SPEAKER_03]: So I did kind of lean on that for, um, you know, 19:00.368 --> 19:10.434 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, as I got further into the industry and still wanted so far, I wasn't really able to look at it as something to enjoy any more. 19:10.454 --> 19:12.475 [SPEAKER_03]: It was like, it was just fake. 19:12.655 --> 19:13.215 [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't real. 19:14.096 --> 19:14.436 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 19:15.316 --> 19:20.119 [SPEAKER_02]: And what did the attention from strangers begin to mean to you over time? 19:22.113 --> 19:46.366 [SPEAKER_03]: At first, it was very, very validating, but gradually it became more of just like feeling clearly objectified and looked at only as a sexual object or, you know, I and just the only fans girl, like there was nothing else to me, basically, to a lot of a lot of people, some of them who were like my clients, but also people in my real life. 19:47.422 --> 19:58.915 [SPEAKER_03]: Once I found out I did it, you know, I wasn't the girl who wanted to entertain people by juggling and who were hoping anymore or the girl who went and got herself ocean certified. 19:58.935 --> 20:07.505 [SPEAKER_03]: Like all of that stuff became very back burner, not important and everything that became important about me was a patch to my body. 20:08.416 --> 20:11.757 [SPEAKER_03]: So it became very objectifying after a while. 20:12.458 --> 20:22.762 [SPEAKER_03]: And at first, that sort of objectification can feel good, especially when you didn't receive a lot of attention to have that big burst of attention come onto you paired with money. 20:23.562 --> 20:24.563 [SPEAKER_03]: It's really exciting. 20:24.783 --> 20:28.885 [SPEAKER_03]: But it's just objected being objectified. 20:28.925 --> 20:29.645 [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't feel good. 20:30.325 --> 20:34.267 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's how it started to feel very quickly into my career. 20:34.987 --> 20:35.247 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 20:35.727 --> 20:38.048 [SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned people in your own life. 20:38.368 --> 20:46.031 [SPEAKER_02]: As people learned about this, you know, did you have people you knew looking up your content on only fans? 20:46.071 --> 20:48.212 [SPEAKER_02]: Did you have conversations with people about it? 20:48.652 --> 20:51.193 [SPEAKER_02]: What was that experience like for you? 20:52.803 --> 21:02.630 [SPEAKER_03]: There had been a lot of people that I had considered friends who then found out that I was doing the sort of stuff, and they would subscribe to my only fans. 21:02.950 --> 21:05.511 [SPEAKER_03]: And it'd be like, oh, I'm doing this to support you. 21:05.592 --> 21:07.072 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm doing this to support you, which 21:07.993 --> 21:11.095 [SPEAKER_03]: Mind you, my subscription fee was not very steep. 21:11.195 --> 21:12.095 [SPEAKER_03]: It was very cheap. 21:12.335 --> 21:14.817 [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to support me, you can just throw me that five dollars. 21:14.857 --> 21:32.126 [SPEAKER_03]: Like we all know that you were not supporting me, that you were just objectifying me and utilizing that content for your own personal time, which, yes, that is what I made it for, but if you are someone who's involved in my real life, I feel like that's a bit different than having someone who is a stranger, 21:38.147 --> 22:02.215 [SPEAKER_02]: do you receive like negative feedback from people in your life or other, you know, we had some people saying I want to support you, but did you have other people in your life trying to talk you out of this or what was that experience like I did have a few close friends, speak to me on the regular about it, say like you really can amount to so 22:08.328 --> 22:20.936 [SPEAKER_03]: living to your full potential, some of them that I'm so friends with to this day and I've I've reflected on that time of my life with them now that I'm no longer in the industry and I thank them for speaking that sort of light into me because it is very true. 22:22.157 --> 22:26.220 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm very much more capable of doing a lot more things than I was doing. 22:27.621 --> 22:35.486 [SPEAKER_03]: But it was a pretty even mix of support and also concern for the people that were closest to me in my life at the time. 22:36.315 --> 22:36.616 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 22:37.318 --> 22:44.278 [SPEAKER_02]: Looking back, do you remember, you know, the kind of the first moment you thought, I don't think I want to do this anymore. 22:47.540 --> 22:54.907 [SPEAKER_03]: I can't pinpoint and exact point in time, honestly, it happened very, very gradually. 22:54.987 --> 22:57.850 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I just kind of started making content less and less. 22:58.610 --> 23:03.034 [SPEAKER_03]: I was feeling less happy as I was making the content as time went on. 23:03.655 --> 23:11.282 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, that started very early into my only friends career and extended up until the very end. 23:13.098 --> 23:17.954 [SPEAKER_02]: Once you decided that you wanted to leave, was it easy to do? 23:20.282 --> 23:35.593 [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, because it was part of my income, as well as I kind of had the idea of, oh, all of this stuff is already out there, so I might as well just keep putting it out there. 23:36.214 --> 23:43.139 [SPEAKER_03]: Everyone had already really seen everything, so it was like a might as well, it paired with the money that kept me in it. 23:43.699 --> 23:47.422 [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously it wasn't a huge lump sum of money, but it was enough that, 23:49.514 --> 23:51.798 [SPEAKER_03]: It contributed to me paying some of my bills. 23:51.878 --> 23:55.024 [SPEAKER_03]: It made life a little bit easier in the financial standpoint. 23:55.960 --> 24:08.443 [SPEAKER_02]: And even when, as you mentioned earlier, you always made more at your other job than you ever made during this, so it was never sustaining you, but there was still something that was kind of keeping you hooked in that financially. 24:08.463 --> 24:10.763 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's really interesting. 24:10.803 --> 24:17.124 [SPEAKER_02]: This maybe isn't something that's talked about very often, but you mentioned the idea that, okay, it's already out there. 24:17.424 --> 24:19.145 [SPEAKER_02]: So what do I do? 24:20.045 --> 24:24.766 [SPEAKER_02]: Was there almost powerlessness in that of, okay, all this is there. 24:25.886 --> 24:26.788 [SPEAKER_02]: remove it, right? 24:26.848 --> 24:31.154 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't take it all right back because it's it's out there. 24:31.174 --> 24:32.076 [SPEAKER_02]: It's been disseminated. 24:33.097 --> 24:37.865 [SPEAKER_02]: What does what is that experience like as you're deciding that you want to leave? 24:39.340 --> 24:47.647 [SPEAKER_03]: It definitely just kept me in it for way longer than I really wanted to be about six months before I officially quit. 24:48.188 --> 24:58.897 [SPEAKER_03]: I had announced publicly that I was quitting, but then I'd still have people message me here and there and say, oh, I'll pay you more for the same thing than I was paying you before. 24:58.957 --> 25:01.860 [SPEAKER_03]: And it just kept pulling right back into it. 25:01.900 --> 25:05.062 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, well, I've already done this, so it's like, okay, might as well. 25:05.863 --> 25:21.968 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like that shedding of a skin to a degree like if you are in porn and portraying yourself that way for as long as I did during a half years to publicly come out with a shifted perspective of it. 25:23.772 --> 25:28.513 [SPEAKER_03]: people don't take you serious, some people still don't even take me serious when I say, oh, I used to do this. 25:29.134 --> 25:30.214 [SPEAKER_03]: I no longer do this. 25:30.294 --> 25:32.895 [SPEAKER_03]: They still kind of view me as that person. 25:33.695 --> 25:41.537 [SPEAKER_03]: So even after leaving, people's perception of me and that time of my life is very inaccurate. 25:42.148 --> 25:42.508 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 25:43.109 --> 25:48.952 [SPEAKER_02]: And as you have navigated this journey since you left, what does that look like for you? 25:49.032 --> 25:54.855 [SPEAKER_02]: What has kind of shifting your perspective and healing in the ways that you've needed? 25:54.875 --> 25:56.396 [SPEAKER_02]: What does that journey look like for you? 25:57.036 --> 26:04.380 [SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, just finding out things that actually I am truly passionate about that really do fulfill me. 26:05.217 --> 26:25.579 [SPEAKER_03]: that do also come with the same attention of, you know, on entertaining and so on and so forth is been pivotal to, like, myself love, just living true or to myself and not to the validation that I get from doing something, but that validation can come naturally anyway by doing the things that do true is a filming. 26:26.841 --> 26:27.901 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's beautiful. 26:27.962 --> 26:43.669 [SPEAKER_02]: And even as you're still entertaining, you're still pursuing interest in that space, do you feel like the validation is still shifted to self-fulfillment over, you know, appeasing a crowd? 26:44.709 --> 26:51.272 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I would roller skate and juggle and hula hope and do all this stuff even if no one was watching. 26:51.632 --> 26:52.793 [SPEAKER_03]: I am 100% fulfilled. 26:55.239 --> 26:56.159 [SPEAKER_03]: 100% fulfilled. 26:57.360 --> 26:58.140 [SPEAKER_02]: That's wonderful. 26:58.640 --> 26:59.941 [SPEAKER_02]: And also very talented. 27:01.621 --> 27:03.682 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you do them all at the same time, ever? 27:04.462 --> 27:07.263 [SPEAKER_02]: I do juggle on roller skates from time to time. 27:07.323 --> 27:10.304 [SPEAKER_02]: It's incredible, incredible. 27:10.624 --> 27:16.226 [SPEAKER_02]: After you'd stopped creating content, you still got messages or messages requests from people. 27:16.707 --> 27:23.689 [SPEAKER_02]: How long did that continue to happen after you stopped creating content and made the decision to leave? 27:26.143 --> 27:27.463 [SPEAKER_03]: as a recent as last week. 27:27.963 --> 27:28.303 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow. 27:28.904 --> 27:35.525 [SPEAKER_03]: People still reach out to me asking me if I'll sell content to them or if I do still sell content. 27:35.605 --> 27:39.405 [SPEAKER_03]: It's it's probably something that will follow me forever. 27:39.605 --> 27:49.367 [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm at a point where I'm able to, you know, I'm at a financial point and a self love point where I'm able to reject that very swiftly. 27:50.207 --> 27:54.348 [SPEAKER_02]: Does it affect you emotionally when you get those those messages 27:56.620 --> 28:05.325 [SPEAKER_03]: Not so much anymore, sooner into right when I had quit the industry, it did bother me that people still kind of viewed me that way. 28:06.226 --> 28:16.572 [SPEAKER_03]: But I know what really being loved looks like now, I have a lot of support of people in my life who do speak love and light into me about the path that I'm not now. 28:17.612 --> 28:26.917 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so I don't really care about the reputation I have that reflects somebody that I don't even know anymore myself when I was in this industry. 28:27.037 --> 28:31.859 [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, at first it did bother me a bit more, but now it doesn't. 28:32.359 --> 28:35.701 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm much more quick to deny it, ignore it, block it. 28:37.201 --> 28:44.405 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what is something that you wish people understood better about life after leaving the industry? 28:46.733 --> 29:01.337 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I briefly touched on is that some people will not allow you to change your entire personality in that way or your entire perception on something like that or 29:01.905 --> 29:03.126 [SPEAKER_03]: your public reputation. 29:03.186 --> 29:13.935 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, a lot of people still think of me as the only fans girl who loves to get naked online and all this stuff, we might have been done it for so long. 29:14.696 --> 29:16.458 [SPEAKER_03]: Which I feel like a lot of things are like that. 29:16.478 --> 29:26.667 [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people go through a lot of traumatic things, addiction, for example, and even after moving on from that phase of their life, people still look at them as that person. 29:27.488 --> 29:41.002 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's something I've kind of had to come to terms with is that people are still going to always put some people not everybody and honestly not even a majority but there are some people who do still do me that way and I just 29:51.045 --> 30:03.972 [SPEAKER_02]: Looking back now, do you think that if you hadn't been exposed to pornography at seven years old and it hadn't been something that you had consumed growing up, do you think this would have been a path you pursued? 30:04.212 --> 30:10.356 [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously it's impossible to know for sure, but no, no, no, not at all, no. 30:12.030 --> 30:13.031 [SPEAKER_03]: most definitely not. 30:13.772 --> 30:32.011 [SPEAKER_02]: And knowing that just out of curiosity like for any any parents listening or for anyone who maybe has the idea any adult who have the idea that's like well I grew up with porn and you know it was a magazine that or something they had to get in the background of a video store. 30:32.652 --> 30:46.743 [SPEAKER_02]: And I grew up with it and I turned out, you know, fine, it's no big deal, really, for someone who maybe has that mentality and thinks that young kids being exposed to this is no big deal, what would you say to them? 30:49.013 --> 31:15.173 [SPEAKER_03]: there is a world that exists where some people are exposed to, you know, the magazine they found under one of their parents beds that was hidden away from them and they grew up and ended up totally fine, but there is also a world which is much more common of young children now having a lot of unrestricted internet access being exposed to not only higher quality, 31:15.898 --> 31:25.816 [SPEAKER_03]: motion picture porn, but depicting a lot of graphic and gruesome things, which we'll take at all. 31:26.557 --> 31:26.778 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 31:27.192 --> 31:27.472 [SPEAKER_03]: It will. 31:27.612 --> 31:41.855 [SPEAKER_02]: Especially, you know, on such a young kid, I mean, seven years old is so young to be exposed to a vast array of any type of content under the sun that's available with the click of the mouse. 31:42.515 --> 31:43.575 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so so young. 31:43.695 --> 31:56.698 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think sometimes we just really forget the impact that can have on a developing brain that doesn't even yet have context for what it is that they're they're seeing and is not able to really process that. 31:58.079 --> 32:04.304 [SPEAKER_02]: adult experience with an underdeveloped brain because they're seven years old, right? 32:04.364 --> 32:24.601 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's important for us to remember that even though there are certainly some consenting adults in the industry, as you've mentioned, there are many adult who experience force frater coercion within the industry, sometimes related to drugs or alcohol, 32:26.542 --> 32:33.928 [SPEAKER_02]: But while there are some consending adults certainly within the industry, it doesn't mean that the consumer is going to be unaffected. 32:34.769 --> 32:43.956 [SPEAKER_02]: Even if someone is not being exploited, a consumer, especially a young child, could certainly be affected in ways that could direct, you know, a lifestyle. 32:43.996 --> 32:49.380 [SPEAKER_02]: This was something that you, you sought out as a career you wanted to do from the time that you were young. 32:49.620 --> 32:59.550 [SPEAKER_02]: And at that age, you can't know all of the things you've mentioned here that it's not as glamorous as it's pitched to be that the money is not as good or as easy as it's presented to be. 32:59.610 --> 33:04.655 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's so important to have these these conversations looking back now. 33:05.556 --> 33:09.100 [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think our culture misunderstands most about only fans? 33:10.828 --> 33:16.817 [SPEAKER_03]: probably the idea that it's easy, quick money and that it's consistent money. 33:17.237 --> 33:21.183 [SPEAKER_03]: That is just so far from the reality of the situation. 33:21.784 --> 33:22.846 [SPEAKER_03]: But I feel like, 33:24.338 --> 33:44.768 [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of people they think that like oh like I can just make an only fans page and make a click 10,000 like no you're not you're not doing that it's not happening especially if you're just posting still you know one still photo of yourself hacknaked in a bikini like it's just it's not like that it's not like that at all. 33:45.574 --> 33:50.559 [SPEAKER_02]: Can I ask you a little bit about the clientele on only fans or the subscribers? 33:50.599 --> 33:55.264 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we've seen a lot of statistics of the majority of subscribers being married men. 33:56.345 --> 34:04.393 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you speak at all to your experience as a content creator with who the type of subscribers were that you had? 34:05.614 --> 34:21.890 [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of them were men who were unsatisfied in their relationships and at the time I did monetize off of that, which is something I'm not proud to admit, but it is a big reality of a lot of porn creators, porn performers, whatever you decide to call it. 34:22.351 --> 34:28.557 [SPEAKER_03]: When money is put in your face, it's easy to kind of not think about what you're actually doing. 34:30.546 --> 34:35.552 [SPEAKER_03]: just be very, very mindful about, you know, when money is being thrown in your face. 34:35.592 --> 34:37.434 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's for any industry, honestly. 34:38.230 --> 35:02.172 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well said, you've mentioned, you know, a number of different things and I can guess what your answer might be, but for a specific 18 year old or 17 year old about to turn 18, who's considering creating and only fans or a joining the industry because it seems like easy money or it seems empowering what would you say to them. 35:04.018 --> 35:08.141 [SPEAKER_03]: As much as I believe it's the right thing to say, don't do it. 35:08.302 --> 35:09.302 [SPEAKER_03]: Don't do it ever. 35:09.463 --> 35:15.047 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like that's not really digestible for someone who is partially 18 and thinks that they're all grown up. 35:15.127 --> 35:16.949 [SPEAKER_03]: And oh, I know what I'm doing and all this stuff. 35:17.889 --> 35:23.254 [SPEAKER_03]: I would, I would give them more realistic advice of saying, wait until you're 21. 35:23.614 --> 35:25.556 [SPEAKER_03]: Think about it until you're 21. 35:26.196 --> 35:29.419 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, pursue other things in the meantime first. 35:30.020 --> 35:31.762 [SPEAKER_03]: before jumping right into that world. 35:32.383 --> 35:36.708 [SPEAKER_03]: And when you turn 21, think about it more until you're 25. 35:37.529 --> 35:48.423 [SPEAKER_03]: Even, like, I, of course, I'd recommend nobody getting into the porn industry in general, especially young women who are much more vulnerable than they believe that they are at the time. 35:49.558 --> 35:59.286 [SPEAKER_03]: but the more realistic digestible advice would be, wait until you're 21, do other things in the meantime, find out if there's anything that does truly fulfill you. 36:00.867 --> 36:11.316 [SPEAKER_03]: And then when you turn 21, wait even longer because I was in the industry until I was 21 and I still at 21 was doing it. 36:11.697 --> 36:15.780 [SPEAKER_03]: So it was like, I still was young and impressionable at the time, even still. 36:18.293 --> 36:20.276 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I would just say, I would just say hold off. 36:20.637 --> 36:22.760 [SPEAKER_03]: It's trying to try and do some other stuff first. 36:23.301 --> 36:23.722 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 36:24.543 --> 36:30.213 [SPEAKER_02]: Did you learn much about like only fans marketing agencies when you were a content creator? 36:31.620 --> 36:38.784 [SPEAKER_03]: I kind of always knew that they were BS, I pretty much always had a good gauge on knowing that that was BS. 36:38.844 --> 36:43.086 [SPEAKER_03]: I was never signed to and only fans like management company or anything like that. 36:43.826 --> 36:50.170 [SPEAKER_03]: But a lot of my only fans' peers at the time did get involved with that and get scammed of their money. 36:50.530 --> 36:53.632 [SPEAKER_03]: These only fans' agencies are usually just 36:54.552 --> 37:08.220 [SPEAKER_03]: random guys who say oh like I will help promote you and they never do and they just take a big majority of the percentage of the money you make on top of the 20% of your income that only fans takes already. 37:08.901 --> 37:17.586 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's like you're making even less money to be signed with an agency to not really make any more money. 37:18.246 --> 37:21.468 [SPEAKER_03]: Probably the even to make less money but personally I never 37:23.892 --> 37:46.252 [SPEAKER_02]: yeah and other than being the platform that's hosting your content does only fans as a platform do anything to support you for that 20% that it takes of your income does it promise to keep you safe from predatory subscribers or you know is do they market you is there anything that they're doing for that percentage. 37:47.031 --> 37:53.413 [SPEAKER_03]: Nope, they just, you, if you want to use their platform, they take 20% and it's a simple trade as that. 37:54.173 --> 38:03.236 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, um, if someone listening is struggling with pornography, either consuming it or creating it, what hope would you leave them with? 38:04.957 --> 38:15.860 [SPEAKER_03]: There is a world where you can live a porn free life, whether you're creating it or consuming it, um, and I am a living testimony of that. 38:18.054 --> 38:30.290 [SPEAKER_03]: I was in the industry for a significant amount of time and for me to have broken free of those shackles, mentally and physically, it's very, very possible. 38:31.902 --> 38:32.382 [SPEAKER_02]: amazing. 38:33.162 --> 38:37.804 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, Madison, it's been so important to have this conversation with you. 38:38.364 --> 38:56.891 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we are often hearing from parents of young people who say, you know, we don't even know what only fans is or is this, you know, this is something I know I should be talking to my kid about, but I don't know where to start or even young people who are who are seeing this as a viable 39:00.552 --> 39:02.333 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, no need to pursue anything else. 39:02.393 --> 39:05.015 [SPEAKER_02]: This is the thing for me. 39:05.175 --> 39:09.617 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's so important to share stories like yours. 39:09.877 --> 39:11.998 [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you for being willing to share this. 39:12.118 --> 39:20.583 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so grateful and appreciate your openness and your resilience in navigating this. 39:20.903 --> 39:24.345 [SPEAKER_02]: And is there anything else we didn't get to speak about today that you wanted to share? 39:26.478 --> 39:42.349 [SPEAKER_03]: If you are a parent of a young child, I know that you may think that blocking certain sites and all this stuff will prevent your child from being exposed to those sorts of things, it will not. 39:42.649 --> 39:46.672 [SPEAKER_03]: Kids are ruthless, they can bypass any block online. 39:46.872 --> 39:52.536 [SPEAKER_03]: You have to be very, very cautious about monitoring 39:55.280 --> 40:01.183 [SPEAKER_03]: depending on the age, you know, literally watching over their shoulder and seeing what they're doing. 40:01.203 --> 40:14.250 [SPEAKER_03]: And even if it's like helicopter care and all, um, being, you know, too supervising, it, it is for the greater good kids, kids will find a way to get around any boundary that they are set. 40:14.850 --> 40:19.752 [SPEAKER_03]: And also putting blockers on certain sites doesn't protect them from being shown it by other kids. 40:19.852 --> 40:20.513 [SPEAKER_03]: So make sure 40:21.413 --> 40:37.529 [SPEAKER_03]: that you are having conversations with your younger children about porn and be transparent about it to an age appropriate degree, of course, but educate them on the fact that if they do stumble across this content, this is something they should be speaking about with their parents and 40:38.733 --> 40:53.570 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, you know, explaining to them the dangers of the porn industry and how it's not just something adults do you kind of do have to get into the nitty gritty and it's not comfortable, but it's it's life saving and it's necessary. 40:54.610 --> 41:18.606 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I truly couldn't have said that better myself, you know, there are so many resources and tools out there that are designed to help make it a little more difficult, but as you mentioned, kids can get around anything, they can be shown it by friends who don't have the same safeguards or in a public place, so we do always want to remind parents, it's not if it's when your young people will be exposed to 41:19.687 --> 41:22.048 [SPEAKER_02]: pornography or sexually explicit material. 41:22.248 --> 41:36.771 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's so, so important that when they are, they know that they have a safe adult, they can come to that they can ask questions to you, and that does require an ongoing conversation, not just a one-time, you know, brief or overview of the topic. 41:36.831 --> 41:40.992 [SPEAKER_02]: And so we have lots of resources that fight the new drug that can help with those conversations. 41:41.032 --> 41:43.733 [SPEAKER_02]: There are many other wonderful resources available out there, 41:49.736 --> 41:50.047 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you. 41:54.227 --> 41:56.909 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for joining us on this episode of Consider Before Consuming. 41:57.510 --> 42:00.412 [SPEAKER_00]: Consider Before Consuming is brought to you by Fight The New Drug. 42:00.953 --> 42:17.907 [SPEAKER_00]: Fight The New Drug is a non-religious and a non-legislative organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on its harmful effects using only science, facts, and personal accounts. 42:18.447 --> 42:21.310 [SPEAKER_00]: Check out the episode notes for resources mentioned in this episode. 42:21.850 --> 42:25.352 [SPEAKER_00]: If you find this podcast helpful, consider subscribing and leaving a review. 42:25.812 --> 42:26.933 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks again for listening. 42:27.454 --> 42:34.658 [SPEAKER_00]: We invite you to increase your self-awareness, look both ways, check your blind spots, and consider before consuming.