[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone, welcome to the CryptoMavix podcast, and we have a great guest here for you today.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Glendie Cam, and she's a Chief Product Officer of Tasset, where she leads the development of always on bank grade payment and settlement infrastructure that's processed more than 2.5 trillion with a T in transactions, really excited to have Glendie on today.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for joining us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're always excited to have, we like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have all sorts of different walks of life on the podcast, people from all different worlds within the crypto infrastructure, and looking at your background to just get started extremely impressive.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would love for you to just give the audience a little bit of a background of how you got into the world of crypto, what you did beforehand, just give us a little bit of a breakdown who Glendies.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have been in actually my background, it's not as interesting as Tessett, so we're going to talk a little bit more about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I have been in banking for a long time, majority of my career in large banks, doing everything for risk management,
[SPEAKER_00]: I was actually JP Morgan and I spent the last five years launching Open Banking in JP Morgan and after five years I was ready to do something different and Open Banking opens up the opportunity for me to see the FinTech world, the startup world.
[SPEAKER_00]: because I was working with a lot of them at that time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's when I also have the opportunity to join Tasset.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tasset is a blockchain payment settlement company, as you already share earlier.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have several pillars of products that we have.
[SPEAKER_00]: on our platform.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mostly putting infrastructure inside being a financial institution for payments settlement and also digital asset and kept the market products.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have a pretty wide range of different products on our platform.
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know we're going to dive into exactly what it does and we won't we won't really do it too hard about JP Morgan and Jamie Diamond and Clarity Act will keep that for when the cameras are off.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in all seriousness, people often assume that digital payments already move instantly.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what problems tacit actually solving?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's actually a really good question because when people talk about blockchain payment, they always talk about, oh, it's very fast, but that is not really the value of blockchain payment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, we need to understand, I think one of the biggest
[SPEAKER_00]: misconception about payment is that once you send a message about moving money, the money automatically moves, or the money of instantly moves.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in reality, that's not really the case.
[SPEAKER_00]: Forget about blockchain payment, even traditional payment rail that we have been seeing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not really the case.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most payment are really just messaging that instruct
[SPEAKER_00]: financial institutions or the counterparties to update their own larger and the actual money movement or the actual final settlement actually happens way later sometimes hours later sometimes even days later through you know many many different type of protocols so when we talk about payment we really need to separate the money movement part and the messaging part money movement is really
[SPEAKER_00]: updating the ledger from your financial institution to my financial institution, but the messaging part is what everybody is trying to solve in the payment world.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at all the big initiative in the industry when it comes to payment, it's all around
[SPEAKER_00]: managing the messaging, making the messaging less more frictionless and also more efficient, more complete.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think blockchain payment, the value that it brings, is not just only the money movement behind behind
[SPEAKER_00]: after the message it was done, but also to trust the program ability and also the possibility of eliminating a lot of these frictions.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at some of the launch initiative, I'll name just a few.
[SPEAKER_00]: The ISO migration, the friction that we're trying to solve with stable coin in corresponding banking, the Swift network, all these are targeting at messaging.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I guess one of the biggest challenges for it, and one of the bigger challenges for institutional crypto, is it really blockchain speed, or is it the settlement, the liquidity, the compliance, integration of all the different banks.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'd love to kind of know your viewpoint there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you're going to clarify the question.
[SPEAKER_00]: The value of the blockchain payment, whether it is the settlement or all the things behind it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think the value of blockchain payment is not only making things move faster, the messaging move faster, the additional, because when do you have instantaneous nature of money movement?
[SPEAKER_00]: the message on the on the on the program ability and the messaging on the on the blockchain.
[SPEAKER_00]: You also enhance the liquidity.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think liquidity is important.
[SPEAKER_00]: Before when you have delays, you were talking about trapping the capital from pawn A to point B.
[SPEAKER_00]: But once you have not only that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to talk about instant payment also in a minute, but not only about tracking the capital, but also the verification.
[SPEAKER_00]: the trust that is being built in this kind of system.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you have a system that move things faster, liquidity would be enhanced as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: We see a lot of banks that are, or not, maybe not a lot, but a handful of banks are adopting blockchain settlement now.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Wells Fargo was the latest to announce that where are we in the tipping point?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or are we just maybe just getting started there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's really interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: A few years ago, nobody would even talk about that, especially with the launch of financial institutions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I think everybody recognized the power of blockchain technology for payment for,
[SPEAKER_00]: financial instruments putting them on blockchain and allow them to translate.
[SPEAKER_00]: And open up that ecosystem to connect the asset, the payment, the currency behind it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think right now this is,
[SPEAKER_00]: not only just the beginning, but I think the beginning already happened like maybe maybe a few months ago, but right now we are at a point where people have the confidence and very daring to start putting some of the experiments, some of the ideas into real-life application.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can see not only
[SPEAKER_00]: large man G-Sips, they are creating the blockchain payment or blockchain tokenization platform, but also there are a lot of networks that are starting up and connecting financial institutions, traditional financial institutions with the digital asset startup or FinTech company or even crypto companies.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk a little bit about how it works.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you use a private permission blockchain instead of a public blockchain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you touch a little bit about on that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so we started with private permission blockchain.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is what Tassett was a very famous for.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we built that infrastructure inside banks, several banks, and transacted 2.5 trillion on our network.
[SPEAKER_00]: back then, if you think about Tesla has been around for many, many years, for more than five years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's really, really important for banks at the beginning when they start experimenting with this technology to understand their research and privacy and protection of the information clients' transaction.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the reason why when they build it at the beginning, we build it on private permission chain.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, the permission
[SPEAKER_00]: aspect of transactions or blockchain transactions is still very important.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have recently also expanded our capability to build a public permission chain.
[SPEAKER_00]: Recently, there is a, we have a partnership launch with Avalanche that we put our link
[SPEAKER_00]: have a lunch and that is an illustration or demonstration that we are not moving from private permission to public permission and I think it is I think it is a work in progress for large financial institution to start understanding how some of the permission network still would be able to provide the privacy and protection that that are directly the entity
[SPEAKER_01]: the industry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead, Joe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's cut you off, bud.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there going to be an inflection point for banks adopting blockchain or is it going to be led by retail?
[SPEAKER_02]: I heard Sam Song yesterday they're going to onboard users with crypto wallets.
[SPEAKER_02]: Does everyone need crypto wallets utilizing to solder your banking partners or is that going to be abstracted away?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is going to move fluently beyond beyond a blockchain or we all are going to be
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope we are all going to be on blockchain.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think one of the really important things with any new technology is really the user experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that is the most important part.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you really care if the user experiences could do you really care what technology is behind it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you really care what technology is with is building or VAMO is building or any of these things of building?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the most important thing is about the user experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: So TASA built our platform, parent that in mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for our user, when they are the user of the platform would be either the banks,
[SPEAKER_00]: The crypto digital asset users on our platform on the link platform is they don't need to know how the wallet is set up, how to how to how the key or how all the technology behind it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We provide a very, very easy interface for them to interact with the blockchain that makes a very easy for them to use the platform in addition to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: because of the instantaneous nature of the platform.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also really important that we build the capability for a lot of the API capability, for a lot of our users and also customers to integrate that into their operational process so that they can actually automate a lot of the usage of our platform into their operation or even create new product for their own customers.
[SPEAKER_01]: So since it seems like it's a little bit easier to use.
[SPEAKER_01]: So can a bank modernize its payment system without replacing its existing core banking technology?
[SPEAKER_00]: When it comes to the bank's core banking platform, it is really interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because,
[SPEAKER_00]: Banking Bank's core platform is very complicated, and it's not easy for banks to just replace the core, as we can see, especially a lot of the banks, the core become really, really complicated over years of
[SPEAKER_00]: merger and acquisition, but when we need to think about how we can have a traditional banking core working with maybe the future, blockchain payment or digital asset infrastructure to work with the banks core, we need to think about the core as more like a system of record, not necessarily a system of innovation, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So a blockchain payment platform can always sit alongside the core.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we can integrate that through API that's exactly what we do using API and also some existing payment interface.
[SPEAKER_00]: To provide the capability, the core was not really designed for.
[SPEAKER_00]: So realtime settlement tokenized deposit, programable payment, and also 24-7 operation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the core can continue to manage because the core has a lot of functionality that's extremely complicated, that's also the reason why it's very hard to replace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The core can continue to manage the customers account, the accounting, the ledger, regulatory reporting, and balance sheet records and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: the underlying asset within the bank, either be the deposit or in the future of the asset that the bank would be handling through the core.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I would love to see 24-7 banking.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know we talk a lot about 24-7 markets, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But just setting an ACH overnight, I would love to see that immediately.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we all have been caught some time transferring funds and not clearing.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's the obstacle there?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it KYCAML?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a lot of antiquated systems holding that back, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Does blockchain help?
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess with that, since there is Providence on who's sending it, because I know I have friends that work in the KMO, AML, a sector, and is that an obstacle?
[SPEAKER_02]: What's the obstacle preventing us from going 24 or 7 banking?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there could be several right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you talk about 24 or 7 banking, we talk more than just payment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And earlier, the example was focusing on payment.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about payment first, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: There are still some of the traditional payment rail that are not 24-7, and there is many layer or reasons behind it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are some deal with payment rails and trust the RT6 LTP and also the fat now.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what they're striving to provide the to the US customer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And real time payment is all over the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: in different jurisdiction anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can actually have instantaneous payment on the platform.
[SPEAKER_00]: But some of the traditional payment rail because in even these platform, even these real-time payment platform, there's still some restriction depending on the ban because a lot of the banking banks core banking platform still batch system.
[SPEAKER_00]: So those are the constraint or the limitation that
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of preventing us from moving into a true 24-7 banking or payment payment well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those, that's also the reason why I said, you know, we can leave the banking core alone, but then put a blockchain payment platform a blockchain side core, right next to the core, and we would be able to mitigate a lot of these inefficiency that is currently in the banking system.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you see stable coins when tokenized deposits competing with each other in some manner or are they going to be complementary working together?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't see them competing with each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually see stable coin and also tokenized deposit complementary to each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because tokenized deposit is essentially
[SPEAKER_00]: digitized version of the bank's liability to their customer.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are some very specific case that tokenize the deposit is very good for.
[SPEAKER_00]: And stablecoin, as we can see, as we can see, the stablecoin volume has been going up like
[SPEAKER_00]: like crazy over the last couple years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Stablecoin really have very unique use case.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, the stablecoin, the usage of Stablecoin, is really for a much wider participant or users in a more open and public setting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tokenize the deposit still preserved that regulatory protection for the customer
[SPEAKER_00]: the privacy and also the bank's control of who is going to and the transparency about the transactions for the banking community.
[SPEAKER_01]: Passets worked on a tacit pay tokenized deposit networks, the digital interbank network, and now I see a link.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do these products work together?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, tacit actually has three pillars of our product.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, we started with a tacit pay, which is a tokenized deposit platform, and then we also built a digital interbank network, which is actually connecting these blockchain payment capability from banks to banks, and
[SPEAKER_00]: Link is a very different product that we created last year, and I think we will have last year, and which is actually tokenized money market fund.
[SPEAKER_00]: From the mentally, they are very, very similar, but also they serve very different purpose.
[SPEAKER_00]: building on a permission network of participant, tokenizing either deposit or a financial market product, and allow customers or allow users to be able to transact.
[SPEAKER_00]: with each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you look at one is truly a banking product, test a pay or in the band that is a banking product, the other one is a capital market product.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we are actually expanding our products to more than just
[SPEAKER_00]: facilitating for the banking community, but also connecting with a capital market product, because eventually we really think that blockchain technology would be that connectivity tissue that connect all these financial market products together.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, we also have a new initiative that just came out, the white paper just came out, which is Nanya, which is also something that we want to, this is a stable corn reserve initiative, this is something that we're also looking at stable corn has become a really important part as well, you can almost see the stable corn becoming the currency of the, of the, the web three world.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is the initiative that how we also bring that into everything that we have already built and so that we can have a more holistic platform.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's dev don't worry.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's still a stable coin question.
[SPEAKER_02]: There is a big consortium, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure you're aware that helped form a day open USD.
[SPEAKER_02]: How does, or should an average person look at that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Does it serve the ecosystem?
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you help describe it a little bit?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I'm still a little bit confused about and how the reserve income works.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and now are you guys in adopted and supporting the future?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I can explain how we are seeing how the reserve management would work or or at least how we think that Nania would be able to make the reserve management more efficient and more transparent.
[SPEAKER_00]: The focus is really on the transparency, the compliance and which because we think that that is a really important part about stablecoin.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think right now we are
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think right now, people are still wondering how we should use stablecoin or whether we should use stablecoin or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: The bottleneck to stablecoin is really the trust.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I trust putting my money there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I trust that I use this instrument to do my money movement?
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's the reason why I think reserve management is a really important part.
[SPEAKER_00]: The base would be providing the, um, when we look at a stable corn reserve, you would have the cash part, you would have to high quality liquid as a part.
[SPEAKER_00]: The cash part would be sitting in the bank.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we connecting the issuer with the bank so that both party would be able to see with have a very transparent what the reserve ratio is and what is backing back in the stablecoin.
[SPEAKER_00]: This actually really helped to the stablecoin issuer and also the banks to feel comfortable participating in the stablecoin economy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Nenia is not intended to be a stable coin issue or a bank, a custodian or a principal risk taker.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is being neutral so important in going to become shared infrastructure for issuers, banks, auditors, and obviously regulators?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Nanya is not the stablecoin issuer.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a stablecoin issuer.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't actually keep the reserve.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, we definitely, very neutral.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not competing with the stablecoin issuer.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not competing with the bank.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a framework that connects the stablecoin issue with the bank, making it easy for them to place, move, and optimize cash.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really important to be neutral because we don't want to be in a situation where you're actually competing with the user or the customer of your platform.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so that is the reason why it's stay as a infrastructure or a marketplace where the issue can distribute the reserve deposit across the banks that participate in on the platform.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also,
[SPEAKER_00]: What they get from the architecture is almost like a shared infrastructure that is very supportive to a scaled stablecoin and just provide some systematic resiliency to the stablecoin industry.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it sounds like Nenia is going to launch in early 2027.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or that's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Iraq too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, in the year 2027, I should say what what needs to happen before launch.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure there's a laundry list there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then once that happens, what's what's successful look like?
[SPEAKER_00]: So we just launched our white paper so we want to put it out there that this is the idea that we believe to help the stablecoin industry.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so now between now and the actual launch of the Nanya platform is all about building the ecosystem.
[SPEAKER_00]: as well as actually the technology behind that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So bringing together the issue of the banks around a common operating model that's really important right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: The concept of the platform is is
[SPEAKER_00]: simple implementation of the platform and how we will build it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is always something that we need to put a lot of thoughts and also make sure that it is built in a way that it will be very, it will be able to operate very efficiently between the issue and also the the the the banks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, at the same time, like I mentioned earlier, Nanny is all about providing the transparency and the compliance to the stable coordination and also the banks.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we also, we also during this time, we also need to help the regulator to have a full understanding of what this platform is and providing that transparency and understanding of what Nanny is would be extremely important.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think one year after the launch success, I don't think I wanted to measure success by just transaction volume, is a reserve management platform.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's more important that it become more efficient, more transparent, more resilient.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then make it easier or make it very transparent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Make it very apparent, it's easier for both
[SPEAKER_00]: economy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would think that what I would think is a success is maybe a year later, if people stop thinking of reserve management as a bottleneck, but actually start thinking that the transparency provided would actually help strengthen the confidence, like I mentioned earlier, like to strengthen the confidence in transacting using staple coin.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a success.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a great answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I absolutely love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So before we let you go, what are you most excited about right now and where can people fall of the company and learn more about Project Menia?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so, uh, we have we just launched our, uh, white paper.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to learn more about Nania, go to tesset.com and, uh, there will be a link to the white paper.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's where you can learn about this new initiative, uh, what's most exciting right now is, so we finally, I've been working on the white paper for almost a year.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, so finally, it's long.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what's most exciting is, I can talk about it freely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's extremely exciting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's where all the juicy details are in anybody in the audience.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to link that down below, so you can learn more about Project Nenia.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can read the white paper, exciting stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: We really appreciate you jumping on the podcast today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: And thanks for putting that link on your podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.