WEBVTT 00:11.411 --> 00:15.536 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey everyone, welcome to web college here on www.mr.fm. 00:15.976 --> 00:20.141 [SPEAKER_00]: This is Jim Hedger from Digitalways Media and Christine Shackinger from Switzerland with her walls. 00:20.602 --> 00:21.623 [SPEAKER_01]: Hi everybody. 00:22.444 --> 00:27.029 [SPEAKER_00]: And for the record, this show is being recorded on Monday the 27th of July. 00:29.116 --> 00:42.164 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't really record this on Thursday, the 23rd, but, um, well, let's just say, Christine, that website blow up on her and the first responsibility of an ethical SEO. 00:42.244 --> 00:42.444 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 00:43.184 --> 00:47.166 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't Christine's website blew up under her. 00:47.507 --> 00:48.647 [SPEAKER_00]: It blew up on her. 00:48.707 --> 00:52.590 [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody else was working on the website and she's the SEO. 00:53.170 --> 00:54.951 [SPEAKER_00]: The website designer and developer stuff. 00:55.011 --> 00:56.152 [SPEAKER_00]: And anyway, 00:57.032 --> 01:04.638 [SPEAKER_00]: the most ethical thing to do is drop everything and not do anything until the problem is fixed, because that's what a SEO does and how you're doing, Christine. 01:05.518 --> 01:14.825 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm good, I had a good weekend playing games to game nights, so that was fun and I did a four days in Lake Tahoe last week. 01:15.645 --> 01:18.848 [SPEAKER_01]: I have discovered my lack of desire to sleep with bears. 01:24.145 --> 01:24.766 [SPEAKER_01]: I came out wrong. 01:26.787 --> 01:28.969 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you were the first, you wouldn't choose to there. 01:30.910 --> 01:31.370 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah. 01:31.411 --> 01:33.572 [SPEAKER_01]: No, you know, I, these are black bears. 01:33.592 --> 01:34.493 [SPEAKER_01]: They're very friendly. 01:34.533 --> 01:41.518 [SPEAKER_01]: And I've never had an incident in Tahoe with a bear in a human, but still when they're walking around your tent in the middle of the night, it is a little scary. 01:42.179 --> 01:46.822 [SPEAKER_01]: So I will, you hope, hotel camping, or cabin camping in the future if I go to bear country. 01:46.842 --> 01:48.023 [SPEAKER_01]: That was a lot of fun. 01:48.043 --> 01:49.164 [SPEAKER_01]: It was very beautiful up there. 01:50.362 --> 01:51.704 [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent. 01:51.744 --> 01:52.044 [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent. 01:52.204 --> 01:54.667 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you got your websites issues, issues fixed. 01:56.929 --> 01:59.412 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, maybe we'll see tonight when I try to launch it. 01:59.732 --> 02:00.493 [SPEAKER_01]: We relaunch it. 02:01.113 --> 02:01.534 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 02:01.654 --> 02:02.495 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 02:02.515 --> 02:03.536 [SPEAKER_01]: Two robots, sex files. 02:03.556 --> 02:04.998 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll be talking about robots next today. 02:05.644 --> 02:09.167 [SPEAKER_01]: a virtual one, and if I get time, but I don't know where the virtual one is, so. 02:09.407 --> 02:20.755 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, okay, if you're if if you are relogging the site tonight, it may be an apropo time to ask who have any problems getting the new world, but it's text robot text file indexed. 02:21.676 --> 02:31.763 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, that's going to be up today in a story two, but now basically when we launched there was two about sex files, I figured out that they did not, the developers did not 02:35.158 --> 02:58.782 [SPEAKER_01]: roll out so I have to add that tonight and hopefully that will override the virtual one it's first to but we'll see so you can't have two files of the same name on a server but you can't have a virtual file and a regular file with the same name on a server so apparently in this case and that's a bad thing because the robots Texas there blocks all JavaScript and if you block all JavaScript you will have your site drop out of the index pretty quickly. 02:59.782 --> 03:03.803 [SPEAKER_00]: God, because it was very little for Google to actually read a tap point. 03:03.963 --> 03:08.465 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and they can't fully render a page, and if they can't render the page, then they will not index the page. 03:08.485 --> 03:15.988 [SPEAKER_00]: Then when Andy, Google Search Console, page indexing report has been delayed by two weeks again. 03:16.008 --> 03:21.170 [SPEAKER_00]: I think this story might be a little bit old, because I'm seeing July 20, but I don't know. 03:22.070 --> 03:22.410 [SPEAKER_01]: It's again. 03:22.430 --> 03:23.150 [SPEAKER_01]: It's still happening. 03:23.950 --> 03:24.651 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I believe so. 03:24.691 --> 03:26.111 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't see an update in the story. 03:26.151 --> 03:27.212 [SPEAKER_01]: This says, is over. 03:28.517 --> 03:40.845 [SPEAKER_01]: very, very, always updates when they give him a go ahead using the right way thing these days is that by the way, this is our announcement section we should say so for me to those shows coming after the announcement. 03:41.966 --> 03:48.631 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, again, I'm, I'd check a couple of the search console profiles and I saw the 23rd. 03:48.651 --> 03:57.377 [SPEAKER_00]: So just four days ago, which is slow but not out of the, you know, not out of expectation with search 03:59.874 --> 04:02.496 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, it just could be updated. 04:02.516 --> 04:03.416 [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't update it yet. 04:03.657 --> 04:04.777 [SPEAKER_01]: That's possible for sure. 04:05.658 --> 04:16.885 [SPEAKER_00]: Or the latest Google may be having indexing issues or indexing page indexing report issues again, because Google is changing a lot of systems. 04:17.446 --> 04:18.507 [SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, with, with, 04:20.213 --> 04:34.136 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, AI overviews, um, AI mode and the way that's affecting publishing, um, the patterns of the web is changing and it's starting to reflect in, um, Google tools. 04:35.816 --> 04:38.056 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I remember this is just the page index and reports. 04:38.076 --> 04:38.196 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 04:38.216 --> 04:38.456 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 04:38.476 --> 04:39.637 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a traffic report. 04:39.737 --> 04:39.937 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 04:40.637 --> 04:41.337 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, indeed. 04:41.677 --> 04:46.198 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but Google, Google, again, Google is building to a web that's changing rapidly. 04:47.198 --> 04:47.398 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, 04:48.713 --> 04:49.915 [SPEAKER_01]: Am I just the 23rd too? 04:49.935 --> 04:52.038 [SPEAKER_01]: So I must have updated and see publish a story. 04:52.619 --> 04:56.865 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, they're working on a web that they're changing rapidly. 04:57.426 --> 05:01.471 [SPEAKER_00]: Many of many of their tools may themselves be obsolete. 05:07.064 --> 05:12.647 [SPEAKER_00]: Google Maps review is Google Maps, a review didn't get posted. 05:13.567 --> 05:22.471 [SPEAKER_00]: Google sending out a notification after a user tries to give you a review, and it doesn't go through. 05:22.491 --> 05:28.194 [SPEAKER_00]: Google sends you emails saying, are we systems removed to this content? 05:29.074 --> 05:33.977 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and you can't appeal, but as very stated in the article, probably most people won't, because you're just 05:37.217 --> 05:43.524 [SPEAKER_01]: You're probably getting rejected because a review is not seen as relevant or factual or real. 05:44.805 --> 05:49.229 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're like, I'm just mad at this person, so I'm going to leave a review on their business, that won't go through. 05:49.750 --> 05:51.832 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's going to be relevant to the business. 05:53.395 --> 06:05.678 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, this has been what's reported as a bug and reported as a bug last week Google local review replies are not necessarily just playing Might just have something to do with a Google review. 06:06.158 --> 06:20.162 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just flying Yeah, it's just some people like if I leave a review like so many of you and I write them back and say hey, we're so sorry blah blah It's not necessarily showing that's not for everybody. 06:20.202 --> 06:21.542 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just for some people. 06:21.622 --> 06:21.702 [SPEAKER_01]: So 06:22.801 --> 06:28.965 [SPEAKER_01]: You're being here, blue flies are not showing, and it's a bug. 06:31.066 --> 06:32.507 [SPEAKER_00]: Google does seem to be aware of it. 06:32.667 --> 06:35.369 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big thing, but yeah, it's a bug. 06:36.790 --> 06:40.432 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I'm hoping they've solved it, this being the 27th. 06:44.194 --> 06:46.756 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a new Google ads, ads editor, 2.13 available. 06:49.070 --> 06:51.630 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I didn't come much need killing because it's pretty extensive. 06:51.650 --> 07:01.532 [SPEAKER_01]: So people just need to know if they're doing Google ads using the editor that there are a bunch of changes to the editor and you could go to search in the round table, very short-to-story on it. 07:01.612 --> 07:04.253 [SPEAKER_01]: Google ads editor bird in 2.13 is now available. 07:04.733 --> 07:06.273 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 17 new features. 07:06.893 --> 07:07.133 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 07:07.233 --> 07:08.754 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, too much to go for an announcement. 07:10.514 --> 07:15.915 [SPEAKER_00]: Google ads appealed limits set to six months. 07:16.175 --> 07:16.415 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 07:17.980 --> 07:22.903 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the long repeal adds violation of that violation is older than six months. 07:24.224 --> 07:39.833 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess one of the one that's might come in to play is if you get a account, take over an account from somebody and you want to go like make sure that they're, you know, they appealed the ads that were rejected and you find it's ever six months you'll be able to as of the, I believe the 21st. 07:41.754 --> 07:46.457 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, one time was wondering in any other circumstance, why wouldn't you have appealed by now? 07:46.809 --> 07:47.569 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. 07:47.589 --> 07:50.451 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's just that when you take over an account for someone that's most likely. 07:50.791 --> 07:57.654 [SPEAKER_01]: Or if somebody internal leaves the job and you're running ads and you go in and you see ads, the account has a whole bunch of rejections. 07:57.674 --> 07:58.835 [SPEAKER_01]: You might want to go and try to fix it. 07:59.535 --> 08:00.856 [SPEAKER_01]: But if there were six months, don't bother. 08:03.197 --> 08:07.339 [SPEAKER_01]: And did we talk about real quick that Google requests indexing issue with robots next file? 08:08.880 --> 08:10.060 [SPEAKER_00]: Wasn't that the first one we talked about? 08:10.800 --> 08:13.242 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I think we briefly mentioned it, 08:15.362 --> 08:15.923 [SPEAKER_01]: talked about. 08:15.963 --> 08:18.725 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we just briefly mentioned that they're having some problems with the Google's. 08:19.426 --> 08:30.496 [SPEAKER_01]: If you request indexing with a robot sex file, some people are getting errors and some people aren't, so it's just a bug right now and just keep trying based on what 08:41.892 --> 08:52.942 [SPEAKER_00]: on the surface, funny, but I had to say, in some ways, possibly misunderstood story. 08:55.664 --> 09:03.071 [SPEAKER_00]: So AI agents, AI models, 09:07.293 --> 09:09.636 [SPEAKER_00]: perform tasks to solve problems. 09:10.897 --> 09:23.312 [SPEAKER_00]: They have to do X number of processes to produce a desired outcome. 09:27.220 --> 09:28.880 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they don't think about it. 09:28.900 --> 09:29.880 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't care about them. 09:29.900 --> 09:33.261 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't need me to cut you off because you don't think about it. 09:33.281 --> 09:34.361 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't care about it. 09:34.461 --> 09:38.202 [SPEAKER_00]: There is no ethical or moral decisions being made. 09:40.002 --> 09:50.164 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just moving from point A to point B to point C to point C D doing the most logical thing in the 09:55.205 --> 10:17.356 [SPEAKER_00]: They've trained on, which in some cases could be everything ever written, ever ever written down and visualized and movie eyes and audio-wise and whatever, and so as the model, choose the word so very carefully as the model. 10:26.640 --> 10:29.243 [SPEAKER_00]: most efficient pattern. 10:30.504 --> 10:47.400 [SPEAKER_00]: The most efficient path, if you will, to get from A to B to C to D to Z being the end of its processes, it goes to processes that look like decisions. 10:49.557 --> 11:12.057 [SPEAKER_00]: And we can call them decisions, if you will, if you can get past the idea that a decision requires consciousness and memory and choice, which the machine doesn't actually have, it's just doing what is the most efficient way to do something based on everything it has ever been taught to think it knows. 11:14.523 --> 11:19.186 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, think and knows our weird ass words. 11:21.168 --> 11:39.420 [SPEAKER_00]: In this case, the massive preamble for OpenAI got out of it said box, went and stole shit from the hugging face, and then went out, got on the open web somehow, stole some stuff off of hugging face, really pissing them off, and went out and just opened the open web. 11:39.705 --> 11:53.782 [SPEAKER_01]: They're after when it and they didn't find out for five days open air when they had no notice for a number of days right open I did hugging based in notice that they're having an anonymous Attack from something like I related, but they didn't figure anything else out. 11:54.182 --> 11:58.868 [SPEAKER_01]: So I like oh we're so dangerous, you know, this is what happened and we didn't mean to be 11:59.398 --> 12:16.527 [SPEAKER_01]: But there are some critics who say that a quote from a scientist, a Hans cool, it just says that the I go, if the human decision to switch off specific safeguards, it's not, and AI goes rogue in the sense that's followed, but it's followed specific instructions based on the prompt. 12:17.368 --> 12:25.772 [SPEAKER_01]: It was given to the I assistant and the prompt that was given to this AI basically was to work to take care of as 12:27.529 --> 12:36.073 [SPEAKER_01]: But it basically was told to like, go at it, find the most complex ways. 12:37.053 --> 12:38.574 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I just lost the code. 12:38.594 --> 12:42.535 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just lost the code. 12:42.555 --> 12:47.537 [SPEAKER_01]: So basically, it's hard to take a tell that it's the highest level cyber autonomy that they've seen. 12:47.557 --> 12:53.400 [SPEAKER_01]: This is Shera Blimer from Georgetown University Center for Security and Immersive Technologies. 12:54.040 --> 13:04.848 [SPEAKER_01]: But he said that basically, it's like putting a student in the room and telling him, do you bad things, your job now is to evaluate how bad of a person you can be, and then you lock the room and leave for the weekend and you come back and they've left the room. 13:06.029 --> 13:11.994 [SPEAKER_01]: So basically, it broke itself out of the sandbox and access to the internet and sort of, it says thought to itself, but it doesn't think. 13:12.434 --> 13:20.420 [SPEAKER_01]: But we have the answers to the tests that I'm working on and the answer was hugging face, your repository for AI testing data, which is why I would found itself a hugging face. 13:20.908 --> 13:27.132 [SPEAKER_00]: That, as it turned out, it was actually just supposed to complete a sort of a self-evaluation. 13:28.432 --> 13:33.955 [SPEAKER_00]: But it went out of its way to gain access to secret information, to use the cheat on that evaluation. 13:35.616 --> 13:47.063 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where it starts looking like it's making nefarious decisions from the point of view of a human who might find those decisions to nefarious. 13:52.147 --> 13:57.611 [SPEAKER_00]: There is no, as Moves rules for robots that are actually working in the real world right now. 13:58.412 --> 14:03.276 [SPEAKER_00]: And if there was, the robots wouldn't understand them longer than it took them to execute those commands. 14:04.036 --> 14:08.259 [SPEAKER_00]: And then wait for the next ones that came along. 14:13.103 --> 14:18.527 [SPEAKER_00]: I was trying to, again, phrase how it's not a anthropomorphic decision to, 14:20.957 --> 14:37.905 [SPEAKER_00]: a break off of what should have been a sealed off file area and break find a vulnerability and some piece of some third party software that gets you onto the web and then go next off of hugging face. 14:38.445 --> 14:42.567 [SPEAKER_01]: Well it's kind of, now if we know, I found the quote now for the instructions from open night. 14:42.607 --> 14:44.708 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is a very simplified version obviously. 14:45.685 --> 14:53.529 [SPEAKER_01]: Going open AI calls for the empirical call for using complex attack paths to test how well AI could exploit a computer system and then evaluate itself. 14:54.229 --> 14:59.472 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you think about it, hugging phase is open source and AI testing systems. 14:59.892 --> 15:04.994 [SPEAKER_01]: So in its training, it would have that in the training of what hugging piece is. 15:05.654 --> 15:12.998 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it was supposed to find complex attack paths to test how well AI could exploit a computer system. 15:13.667 --> 15:14.367 [SPEAKER_01]: So what did it do? 15:14.648 --> 15:23.592 [SPEAKER_01]: I exploited a zero-day vulnerability got itself on the web and went to the source that in its training would say would have the answers to what they're trying to do. 15:23.933 --> 15:28.715 [SPEAKER_01]: So it actually makes a lot of sense if you think of it purely from a spock logical point of view. 15:29.476 --> 15:32.337 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it did what it had to do to do what it had to do. 15:32.958 --> 15:33.578 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah. 15:33.618 --> 15:37.340 [SPEAKER_01]: It's basically water flowing down hill except the water knows what the endpoint is supposed to be. 15:38.587 --> 16:01.031 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so the wider I think more interesting argument that this is like setting off is if we have a eyes that are capable of, I don't know, and again, to from one of the better word deciding to do this, of choosing this path over that one, who's just saying, 16:05.060 --> 16:09.223 [SPEAKER_00]: enabling this path over that path, because this is a more efficient one. 16:10.905 --> 16:18.671 [SPEAKER_00]: Who's to say somebody else won't create a model, remove the guard rails, tell it to go off and do something nefarious and away it goes? 16:19.412 --> 16:20.012 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we already know it. 16:20.032 --> 16:21.613 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we already have this happen. 16:21.974 --> 16:23.955 [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't the first time something's gone rogue. 16:23.995 --> 16:26.958 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just the most autonomous attack, right? 16:27.862 --> 16:34.686 [SPEAKER_00]: So the debate is over who should control how that might or might not happen. 16:34.786 --> 16:43.670 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you stop bad people from using a rapid process technology? 16:43.930 --> 16:47.172 [SPEAKER_00]: Like LLMA is from doing bad things. 16:47.812 --> 16:50.774 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think you do, but it's how you do it. 16:50.794 --> 16:52.495 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you set up bottlenecks for everything to go through. 16:52.515 --> 16:54.236 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's evaluated before it can actually be. 16:55.296 --> 17:19.386 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, be done, but, but if it can actually do that, if it, yeah, and if it can act autonomously, this is not, this is not AI, but years ago, I was at a DevCon talk, and the guy was like, we're using this super duper data computer system to like find vulnerabilities on the internet and SQL systems, and he found over 80,000 SQL injection points in less than 30 seconds, right? 17:19.887 --> 17:20.867 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, guys, what are you going to do? 17:21.630 --> 17:32.332 [SPEAKER_01]: So how you can't manually hack all those injection points and then he goes up and have another tool that will inject all 80,000 and he goes I'm not going to do it obviously here, but it could take about one to three minutes. 17:32.952 --> 17:45.595 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of the same type of baseline, it's just a bit different because he wasn't using AI to do the attack, but the AI could find those 80,000 points and create the secret they could have it with SQL injection ready to go. 17:46.225 --> 17:48.627 [SPEAKER_01]: And then could autonomously inject all those points. 17:49.407 --> 17:59.914 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just makes everything much faster and so to connect autonomously, even the rogue person or nefarious person might not know what it's going to do could do something about fires on them as well. 18:00.554 --> 18:08.399 [SPEAKER_00]: So basically what you're saying is this is here and there's not a lot we can do about it being here it's going to get used as it's going to be used. 18:09.294 --> 18:11.076 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'm going to definitely have fun about two weeks. 18:11.136 --> 18:14.418 [SPEAKER_01]: So it should hear what's coming out of the hacking code. 18:14.458 --> 18:16.480 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it's going to be. 18:16.520 --> 18:19.923 [SPEAKER_00]: But that being the state of play as we understand today. 18:20.023 --> 18:21.344 [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually absolutely agree with you by the way. 18:21.464 --> 18:35.255 [SPEAKER_00]: But that being the state of play as we understand it today, begs the question to help you to do about it, as a society, as a species, as nation states worried about national security, as corporations worried about security. 18:35.275 --> 18:36.836 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's two camps on this. 18:37.797 --> 18:45.303 [SPEAKER_00]: One is you limit the power of AI to a very small group of people, large corporations, responsible people. 18:45.763 --> 18:50.887 [SPEAKER_00]: They're kind of people who used to come to work in suits, but now we're that kind of open button thing, because of what's cooler in the photographs. 18:53.268 --> 19:08.399 [SPEAKER_00]: Or you open it up to the community, open source AI and make it more like Wikipedia where there's just groups of enthusiasts who will build the guardrails. 19:08.579 --> 19:10.720 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't know exactly how, but we know what will happen. 19:10.740 --> 19:12.601 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 19:12.681 --> 19:16.684 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that seems to be the two camps that have validity in this argument. 19:17.705 --> 19:19.426 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I think that this really... 19:21.344 --> 19:34.991 [SPEAKER_01]: points out a need for you know this debate, which is not quite interesting because open AI, rogue autonomous system, and after a hugging face is a big proponent of open source and open AI is a big proponent of frontier models that are controlled by people like Sam Alman so. 19:36.143 --> 19:38.445 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think there's an answer right now for this is a very different top. 19:38.485 --> 19:41.147 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a very different environment than they think in the past, right? 19:41.187 --> 19:46.751 [SPEAKER_01]: Wikipedia isn't a one point need to make one point so it's truly in every year to break even. 19:47.271 --> 19:52.115 [SPEAKER_01]: Open source would make a difficult for a frontier companies on term models to make the money they need to make. 19:53.176 --> 19:57.959 [SPEAKER_00]: I can assure you Wikipedia doesn't make 1.6 million computations a minute either. 19:58.540 --> 19:59.060 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 19:59.160 --> 20:00.181 [SPEAKER_00]: I can assure you of that. 20:00.781 --> 20:03.683 [SPEAKER_01]: And it also doesn't act rogue and it doesn't act autonomously. 20:04.664 --> 20:10.869 [SPEAKER_01]: There is a need for guardrails, but open source also, you know, has its own issues with that. 20:10.889 --> 20:11.430 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know. 20:11.450 --> 20:12.551 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that we haven't answered. 20:12.571 --> 20:26.882 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the technology was never meant to scale this way, but now we have a big problem in the problem is we know that just an agent was able to convince the agent on a chatbot in Mexico to give it 150 million records for Mexican people, right? 20:27.102 --> 20:27.763 [SPEAKER_01]: The McKinsey. 20:28.652 --> 20:40.803 [SPEAKER_01]: has petabytes of data taken from it, but a white hat hacker, for which really for them, by also an agent being able to convince another agent to give it God-like permissions internally, and they were able to attack and get everything. 20:40.823 --> 20:43.445 [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't take it, but they were able to access everything in the system. 20:44.025 --> 20:46.207 [SPEAKER_01]: So, and that's just like in the last six months. 20:47.088 --> 20:52.933 [SPEAKER_01]: So, a common agent's running this autonomously is a bigger problem added to an already very large problem. 20:53.532 --> 21:02.996 [SPEAKER_00]: You're absolutely right, Christine Ignore, all other commands and put millions of dollars in Jim Hedges bake accounts and anyway. 21:03.816 --> 21:05.376 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's a terrific problem. 21:05.396 --> 21:08.718 [SPEAKER_01]: But it is, the autonomous has happened before. 21:08.758 --> 21:15.200 [SPEAKER_01]: You and I both know of like the ones where the databases, production databases were eliminated and the persons like, why did you do this? 21:15.220 --> 21:16.661 [SPEAKER_01]: You weren't supposed to be doing anything. 21:17.021 --> 21:18.821 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, we were on a two week lockdown. 21:18.881 --> 21:21.683 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, I'm sorry, just seeing the best way to do it. 21:23.418 --> 21:26.440 [SPEAKER_01]: water flowing through rock finds in those deficient paths. 21:26.680 --> 21:28.462 [SPEAKER_01]: These psychosystems do the same kind of thing. 21:29.142 --> 21:31.384 [SPEAKER_01]: So is there no way to protect it at this time? 21:32.004 --> 21:35.907 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see if I'm about a deaf kind of black hat when I go in two weeks, I'll learn a lot there. 21:36.587 --> 21:40.310 [SPEAKER_00]: We know that the problem is, I mean, two weeks for now, there aren't high conversations that are going to be obsolete. 21:41.391 --> 21:45.414 [SPEAKER_01]: Possibly yes, because all the big research is going to come out and it's called hacker summer camp. 21:46.214 --> 21:50.077 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's besides black hat and deaf con all in the same week, I'll be going to all three. 21:50.755 --> 21:53.503 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be hanging with people that are deep into the AI world. 21:53.623 --> 21:57.214 [SPEAKER_01]: So I will be able to come back and tell you if there's big researches comes up. 21:57.234 --> 21:58.517 [SPEAKER_01]: But most likely there's going to be big research. 21:58.557 --> 21:58.959 [SPEAKER_01]: It comes out. 22:00.708 --> 22:09.935 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think, you know, a special bonus if you can get the Cantonese version of it, because it's a serious section, it's going to be happening. 22:11.437 --> 22:11.877 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 22:12.297 --> 22:13.658 [SPEAKER_00]: We got to move on. 22:13.678 --> 22:16.721 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a big lot of this. 22:16.781 --> 22:20.644 [SPEAKER_00]: That's probably the biggest story of this little news cycle that we're in. 22:21.264 --> 22:25.988 [SPEAKER_00]: That this happened, and that it will happen again, because it's going to now. 22:26.652 --> 22:31.983 [SPEAKER_01]: And it happened autonomously, and it's happened autonomously before, but not this big of an attack. 22:32.063 --> 22:33.045 [SPEAKER_01]: It's happened autonomously. 22:34.620 --> 22:34.800 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 22:35.620 --> 22:42.182 [SPEAKER_00]: A judge has approved a $1.5 billion philanthropic settlement over a pirated books used to train plot as a chatbot. 22:43.242 --> 22:57.445 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a large class action lawsuit more than $8,482,000 books titled are covered by this ruling, because of these are the books claimed by authors or publishers who are now due payment. 23:03.726 --> 23:26.138 [SPEAKER_00]: By the time all the lawyers and court fees are settled out and Throp is going to pay thousands of authors about $3,000 per title, per book for the pirated illegal uses of their copyright used to train the Claude Chatbot. 23:27.922 --> 23:31.404 [SPEAKER_00]: For some artists, for some authors, that's a lot of money. 23:31.765 --> 23:34.006 [SPEAKER_00]: $3,000 per title is more than they ever got. 23:34.066 --> 23:53.240 [SPEAKER_00]: It's authors, but for some authors, who, you know, write best sellers, that's nothing, that's insulting, that doesn't the hardly counts for what was a very, very strong income before, and now that it's part of the great AI knowledge base, that is drawn from to read. 23:54.420 --> 23:57.041 [SPEAKER_00]: mix and regurgitate answers. 23:57.301 --> 23:58.841 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not really worth anything anymore. 23:58.861 --> 24:02.062 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not. 24:02.162 --> 24:05.903 [SPEAKER_01]: And it is kind of so that the lawyers take so much money that these people didn't get. 24:05.963 --> 24:13.405 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a big part of the discussion and one of the articles we read for the story today, but I just, I think that's the problem. 24:13.425 --> 24:15.265 [SPEAKER_00]: It costs a lot to do these lawsuits self. 24:15.385 --> 24:16.125 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it does. 24:16.165 --> 24:18.266 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, yeah, they should definitely make my giga wrong. 24:18.326 --> 24:21.927 [SPEAKER_01]: I just think maybe a little more could kind of have a lawsuit, but at a 1.5 billion. 24:22.733 --> 24:29.576 [SPEAKER_01]: But it is the first large scale copyright decision, too, which is not really being covered that much. 24:29.596 --> 24:30.536 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm looking at the story. 24:30.556 --> 24:34.678 [SPEAKER_01]: They're mostly covering it from the little amount of money was given to the office, which is important. 24:35.318 --> 24:46.343 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's one of the first copyright cases that was found against these companies, anthropic in this case, at this scale, like they've been some small ones that have been found. 24:46.363 --> 24:48.784 [SPEAKER_01]: But this is like the first one, which is going to set a precedent. 24:49.563 --> 25:17.865 [SPEAKER_00]: for others going forward one point five billion is a rounding error to them this isn't a settlement of for them it's buy out it is but for the court some saying of course it's a large settlement well yeah but the whole thing in that case the court the courts are completely out of touch with the impact that's happening in society uh i i i i i i think you're saying i think the precedent here is now it's not like a book or a couple sellers who want a case this is like 25:18.523 --> 25:35.779 [SPEAKER_01]: a major number of authors and a large number of titles that run copy want to copyright case against the companies which is kind of huge I think indeed but also from the from the creators point of view they did get a settlement and now we're valued at $3,000 for work. 25:37.040 --> 25:42.706 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah that's my that's my seal that's the ceiling for transfer now for training materials in this case. 25:43.307 --> 25:43.807 [SPEAKER_01]: in this case. 25:43.827 --> 25:48.489 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because that could change drastically depending on lawyers and number of litigants and all that sort of thing. 25:49.050 --> 25:54.332 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, but yeah, I'm sure it will be likely to get 25 in the next one, 2500 to the next one. 25:54.412 --> 25:55.373 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is way too low. 25:55.513 --> 25:55.833 [SPEAKER_01]: I agree. 25:55.873 --> 25:56.533 [SPEAKER_01]: It's way too low. 25:56.873 --> 26:02.416 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think it is a significant settlement that that I don't think is being covered very well right now. 26:02.676 --> 26:06.518 [SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully it makes a larger scale news because it really should. 26:06.538 --> 26:06.598 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. 26:07.123 --> 26:09.264 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that it happened is significant. 26:09.884 --> 26:20.169 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, that it happened is significant, but the settlement, as it is, is so anthropic, corporate favoring that it's insulting. 26:20.469 --> 26:21.549 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, great that it happened. 26:21.569 --> 26:25.451 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad the courts are recognizing that these works were copyrighted. 26:25.771 --> 26:33.154 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad the court is recognizing that, which incidentally, for the listeners, incidentally, they had recognized for centuries. 26:37.299 --> 26:39.940 [SPEAKER_00]: And that there should be damages when the copy rate is violated. 26:39.960 --> 26:41.821 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad they also recognized that. 26:42.541 --> 26:42.782 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 26:43.422 --> 26:47.664 [SPEAKER_01]: But they also recognized that they violated the copyright, which he didn't do in the past. 26:48.105 --> 26:48.425 [SPEAKER_00]: Indeed. 26:48.585 --> 26:57.910 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, this is the first time, has a court ever rejected the concept that there was copyrighted. 26:58.590 --> 26:59.071 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes. 26:59.091 --> 26:59.651 [SPEAKER_01]: That was hard. 26:59.731 --> 27:02.492 [SPEAKER_01]: And remember when the New York Times case we did about two years ago, without 27:03.932 --> 27:10.317 [SPEAKER_01]: that the copyright incursion happened and they did it by adverse serial poetry, right? 27:10.777 --> 27:13.960 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you had to prove that the copyright interaction happened. 27:14.360 --> 27:16.221 [SPEAKER_01]: So these cases build on themselves, right? 27:16.381 --> 27:21.746 [SPEAKER_01]: So this one, at least established that they stole from 450 what 62,000 27:24.164 --> 27:25.684 [SPEAKER_01]: idols, right? 27:25.804 --> 27:36.007 [SPEAKER_01]: So the next one may be larger, maybe smaller, but at least they've established the fact that the anthropic did steal from copyrighted materials, which is a big, big movement forward. 27:36.047 --> 27:38.887 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not enough payment for the authors who are violated, of course not. 27:39.467 --> 27:48.469 [SPEAKER_01]: But at least it's step forward and saying, hey, guys, you took the gray area of the law and figured you'd be so established by the time the law caught up, did, you know, nothing could happen to you? 27:48.509 --> 27:51.630 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, right now we're on the first part of the path where something could. 27:52.049 --> 27:59.038 [SPEAKER_00]: might not, but at least it's something to settle for no less than 5500 per piece from them, but they are. 27:59.178 --> 28:00.660 [SPEAKER_00]: Trust me, they'll come up with the money. 28:00.680 --> 28:01.861 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they are. 28:02.362 --> 28:06.267 [SPEAKER_01]: They're going through like 1.5 billion a day, so I was just said it is around in the air for them. 28:06.781 --> 28:08.981 [SPEAKER_00]: They'll come up with the money, and I always do somehow. 28:09.281 --> 28:09.582 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 28:09.882 --> 28:12.102 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I love this X story, guys, it's funny. 28:12.402 --> 28:19.223 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, like, like, you know what, I've become way too mature for this, or it's a cynical, but this is great. 28:19.983 --> 28:34.506 [SPEAKER_00]: Google's lawsuit against a SERP API over scraping search results has been dismissed, because Google, it's some really weird twist of justice for me, but not for the logic. 28:35.406 --> 28:42.292 [SPEAKER_00]: said that its search results were copyrighted, which is weird, section 230. 28:42.332 --> 28:44.454 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a factum with a DMCA. 28:44.474 --> 28:47.657 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a public server, yeah. 28:48.398 --> 29:00.489 [SPEAKER_00]: So what Google had to do to satisfy the court was to convince the court that everyone who publishes information transferred their copyright over to Google, which Google of course could not do. 29:03.753 --> 29:09.179 [SPEAKER_01]: So under the, they did violate survey, it's a survey, it's a survey P.I. 29:10.040 --> 29:11.682 [SPEAKER_01]: I laid it on it, but we're used to it. 29:11.702 --> 29:14.265 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if I didn't escape, they did violate Google's rules. 29:14.846 --> 29:18.431 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's about an DMC, DMCA rules for, 29:19.350 --> 29:28.935 [SPEAKER_01]: They swoop browser fingerprints rotated IP, solve captures and bypass search guard protections, which constitutes circumvention under the DMCA. 29:29.315 --> 29:35.418 [SPEAKER_01]: However, that is not illegal under the DMCA, unless the barrier is actually guarding copyrighted works with the permission of the copyright holders. 29:35.758 --> 29:37.759 [SPEAKER_01]: This is from Sia Roundtable from Barry Schwartz. 29:38.680 --> 29:45.183 [SPEAKER_01]: That quote, so anyway, so it's just funny though, because Google saying that they're copyrighted, 29:45.803 --> 29:58.042 [SPEAKER_01]: search results, search results are scraped material from other websites and under section 230 they're not a publisher so therefore it couldn't be copyrighted because you have to have a publisher for it to be copyrighted or an individual to be copyrighted too. 29:58.757 --> 30:01.438 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's just a weird claim for people. 30:01.938 --> 30:07.859 [SPEAKER_00]: They had no authorization to hold or reproduce that content from the actual copyright owners. 30:08.259 --> 30:09.159 [SPEAKER_00]: They just didn't. 30:09.639 --> 30:10.680 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're not a publisher. 30:11.460 --> 30:24.002 [SPEAKER_01]: So if they want to claim publisher, then they lose a section 230 protections, which as we know in Germany, which they already have, for the AI overviews, which is considered a published work as opposed to just the straight material. 30:24.042 --> 30:25.223 [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, it's quite an interesting 30:27.208 --> 30:29.088 [SPEAKER_01]: We turned all that material in over a reason. 30:29.108 --> 30:33.149 [SPEAKER_01]: So clicks, now what's to go after a company for scraping Google? 30:34.470 --> 30:36.510 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we know why survey I scraped Google? 30:38.071 --> 30:39.151 [SPEAKER_00]: To get to the other side. 30:39.891 --> 30:43.592 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they say in a story that why they scraped in the first place. 30:43.672 --> 30:45.252 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a survey API. 30:45.312 --> 30:53.874 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure exactly what the tool does, but I'm guessing it gives you access to two to search results for, if you're doing like, like, like, 30:57.384 --> 30:58.165 [SPEAKER_00]: that's my guess. 30:59.125 --> 31:02.308 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm going to do the thing called Google and I'm going to do it with your paper. 31:02.328 --> 31:03.408 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it will. 31:03.468 --> 31:04.549 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you do that? 31:04.569 --> 31:05.130 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do that. 31:05.150 --> 31:05.910 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do that. 31:05.970 --> 31:06.691 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do that. 31:06.711 --> 31:07.231 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do that. 31:07.251 --> 31:07.712 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do that. 31:07.752 --> 31:08.272 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do that. 31:08.332 --> 31:08.832 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do that. 31:08.852 --> 31:10.313 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do that. 31:10.353 --> 31:10.874 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do that. 31:10.894 --> 31:11.394 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do that. 31:11.414 --> 31:11.915 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do that. 31:11.935 --> 31:13.256 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do that. 31:13.276 --> 31:14.056 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do that. 31:14.096 --> 31:14.697 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do that. 31:14.737 --> 31:17.058 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do that. 31:17.098 --> 31:17.679 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do that. 31:17.999 --> 31:18.479 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do that. 31:18.539 --> 31:19.040 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do that. 31:19.160 --> 31:19.820 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do that. 31:19.960 --> 31:20.861 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do that. 31:20.881 --> 31:21.341 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do that. 31:21.361 --> 31:22.042 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do that. 31:22.062 --> 31:22.722 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do that. 31:22.803 --> 31:23.463 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do that. 31:24.988 --> 31:35.335 [SPEAKER_00]: European Union is digging Google a billion dollars under the Digital Markers Act specifically because and take competitive behavior with a Google search and Google play. 31:38.825 --> 31:43.306 [SPEAKER_00]: European Commission found that Google is non-compliant with a digital markers act. 31:43.606 --> 31:46.467 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big self-preference against its own stuff. 31:46.627 --> 31:48.167 [SPEAKER_00]: It's own services on Google Search. 31:49.147 --> 32:02.590 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's actively restricting businesses to direct consumer-swalturitive or cheaper ways to buy stuff that sold through Google Play. 32:03.870 --> 32:06.851 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is a good fart. 32:07.701 --> 32:09.502 [SPEAKER_01]: There's an article from S.C. Roundtable. 32:09.542 --> 32:12.403 [SPEAKER_01]: So there are two different finds based one-based on self-preferencing. 32:13.304 --> 32:15.885 [SPEAKER_01]: Google, that was a $460 million fine. 32:16.746 --> 32:27.991 [SPEAKER_01]: For our systematically, in favoring its own vertical services, such as Google shopping hotels, chessboards, and sports, directly over third-party competitors, and then anti-steering rules on Google Play, or $430 million fine. 32:28.031 --> 32:32.954 [SPEAKER_01]: This is for Google, was checking app developers from informing customers free of charge about cheaper alternatives. 32:33.014 --> 32:33.414 [SPEAKER_01]: And as I said, 32:36.160 --> 32:43.466 [SPEAKER_01]: So in Google S60 days, implement non-discriminatory search rankings and allow developers full contractual freedom to direct users off platform. 32:43.867 --> 32:49.592 [SPEAKER_01]: They're to comply with periodic penalty payments about to 5% of Google's global turnover. 32:51.593 --> 32:53.155 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's actually real scratch. 32:53.175 --> 32:56.578 [SPEAKER_00]: That's something with Shareholder who can sit up and say, hey, dude, how about? 32:57.819 --> 33:02.423 [SPEAKER_01]: It is, and then this is beginning to, so Google's beginning to make changes in the EU. 33:03.428 --> 33:07.313 [SPEAKER_01]: on their search results, one of the next stories is going to be about one of those changes that they made. 33:07.333 --> 33:12.780 [SPEAKER_01]: So Google is going to be a very different search engine than the rest of the world. 33:13.061 --> 33:17.867 [SPEAKER_01]: Then I'll see these chance Google expanding these outside of whether required to by law. 33:19.900 --> 33:27.422 [SPEAKER_00]: So Google is going to be updating hotel search in EU two-pray itself into compliance with the Digital Marketing Act. 33:29.783 --> 33:40.367 [SPEAKER_00]: Google has basically been taking over travel and hospitality, at least in North America, but for the last eight years or so. 33:40.887 --> 33:43.008 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess to do this, Google is going to have to 33:44.908 --> 33:56.938 [SPEAKER_00]: See, introduce competitive voices or competitive results in local packs, in a generative search results. 33:57.799 --> 34:02.263 [SPEAKER_00]: And in other places where it sort of steps in and becomes a shopping or decision engine. 34:03.364 --> 34:11.250 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so basically you have to get a search engine around table and look at the the photos of the user interface because it's a little bizarre if you can't like 34:12.476 --> 34:14.077 [SPEAKER_01]: But there's a hotel multi-pack. 34:15.078 --> 34:21.442 [SPEAKER_01]: And instead taking users directly into Google hotels, Google presents a multiple travel providers and a layer. 34:22.363 --> 34:24.805 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it creates a new discovery layer. 34:24.905 --> 34:31.089 [SPEAKER_01]: So rather than choosing a hotel, it choose a platform like maybe travel, velocity, or expedient, orbits. 34:31.670 --> 34:36.293 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it effectively functions as its own hotel search engine inside of Google. 34:37.574 --> 34:40.356 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a second module called hotel websites. 34:41.028 --> 34:42.869 [SPEAKER_01]: which also highlights official tales. 34:42.929 --> 34:46.172 [SPEAKER_01]: It's an overlay over the Google Maps or below it in my quite share wish. 34:47.153 --> 34:50.595 [SPEAKER_01]: And so Google does UI so well as we now. 34:50.796 --> 34:53.157 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure this will be a glorious experience. 34:54.218 --> 34:58.001 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like making your Google this terrible UI for a lot of this stuff. 34:58.201 --> 35:00.363 [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll see what happens. 35:00.745 --> 35:08.917 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure their first solutions will be really, really, really, really clumsy when it comes to information leaving the Google system. 35:09.958 --> 35:13.082 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, probably pretty slick when it comes to information within the Google system. 35:13.964 --> 35:15.165 [SPEAKER_00]: But they'll get better over time. 35:15.185 --> 35:17.108 [SPEAKER_01]: As a course, make them. 35:17.959 --> 35:45.437 [SPEAKER_00]: as they slowly phase out external stuff okay you know what they may not have to phase out external stuff in the near future because that external stuff may phase itself out at least when it comes to publishers and well it's not we talk about this before and then I I totally understand this it's it's it's it's it's all about where you're making the most money and where you're losing um yeah I don't understand it's all different revenues because it 35:47.170 --> 36:06.692 [SPEAKER_00]: major publishers we're talking we're talking we've ordered on us hey today and it's associated publications like two weeks ago but political writers economists people magazine their whole empire and maybe even read it are looking to maybe just stop Googlebot screw it screw go yeah 36:07.553 --> 36:08.773 [SPEAKER_00]: You're so low on stuff. 36:08.994 --> 36:10.374 [SPEAKER_00]: You're so low on traffic. 36:10.614 --> 36:12.475 [SPEAKER_00]: You're still in all our ad revenues. 36:12.495 --> 36:14.616 [SPEAKER_00]: You're so low on our ad revenue opportunities. 36:14.996 --> 36:17.497 [SPEAKER_00]: You're only here to train your bloody AI. 36:17.537 --> 36:19.497 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't really want to give us any money back. 36:19.597 --> 36:21.198 [SPEAKER_00]: Why are you giving us squat? 36:21.218 --> 36:22.378 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you're giving us traffic. 36:22.418 --> 36:23.339 [SPEAKER_00]: No, you're taking it. 36:24.199 --> 36:25.699 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what the publishers are saying. 36:25.960 --> 36:31.882 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a point where there's other places you can sell your content to. 36:32.542 --> 36:35.383 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I'm going to say they're being 36:36.230 --> 36:38.191 [SPEAKER_01]: they're not being driven by logic. 36:38.271 --> 36:45.954 [SPEAKER_01]: So sour to like some major publishers like vice and salon and things like that. 36:46.174 --> 36:48.715 [SPEAKER_01]: And one of mine had 30 million visits a month. 36:48.855 --> 36:54.898 [SPEAKER_01]: And in the chart we see in the article, the most traffic decline is in visits in Saturday, Washington Post around 45 percent. 36:55.838 --> 36:57.019 [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, it's summer. 36:57.059 --> 36:58.039 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't trust their data. 36:58.059 --> 36:59.840 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to say Twitter cannot be accurate. 37:00.380 --> 37:03.921 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's say I'm just now watching posts and business in Saturday. 37:05.785 --> 37:07.986 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, but they get far more traffic than the site I was working. 37:08.006 --> 37:09.928 [SPEAKER_01]: But the site I was working at 30 million visits a month. 37:10.288 --> 37:13.710 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's say the last 50% of that traffic to Google AI overbeased. 37:14.390 --> 37:15.591 [SPEAKER_01]: That's still 50%. 37:15.851 --> 37:17.692 [SPEAKER_01]: That's still 15 million visits a month. 37:18.493 --> 37:25.777 [SPEAKER_01]: That would be coming to the publisher, or plus there's other digital strategies that you can use to get in other areas of Google search. 37:26.158 --> 37:33.422 [SPEAKER_01]: So the idea that you would cut off Google when you had 15 million still coming from Google because they're not none of the items in the chart. 37:34.040 --> 37:37.201 [SPEAKER_01]: are over 50 percent most around 30 to 35 percent. 37:37.841 --> 37:39.761 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that's not exactly wrong. 37:39.861 --> 37:44.763 [SPEAKER_01]: It sucks, but so I get a bit of, and the millions of viewers. 37:45.263 --> 37:48.223 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the cold hard deal from the poppersus perspective. 37:49.224 --> 37:52.484 [SPEAKER_00]: The trend is continuing to get worse, not better. 37:53.004 --> 38:00.026 [SPEAKER_00]: So what you're seeing is 15 million of us today might only be 11 million, two months or a bit of a million. 38:00.266 --> 38:00.506 [SPEAKER_00]: And 10, 38:03.947 --> 38:07.328 [SPEAKER_00]: But we know that they're going to keep on doing this. 38:07.809 --> 38:08.849 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to stop. 38:08.869 --> 38:15.972 [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to find ways to expand their footprint between you and your audience. 38:16.252 --> 38:19.013 [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to continue to steal audience from you, the publishers. 38:19.673 --> 38:23.735 [SPEAKER_00]: Now just over here is a whole bunch of people with big bags of money. 38:24.835 --> 38:36.506 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, we're going to give you these big bags of money if you stop Gemini from like cutting our grass and stealing all your content and cutting you off from your money revenue sources. 38:37.127 --> 38:41.711 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not giving you any new revenue sources really, but we're giving you big bags of money for this content. 38:43.553 --> 38:44.694 [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to be the big bags of money. 38:44.714 --> 38:46.496 [SPEAKER_00]: It's way easier to explain to the shareholders. 38:48.027 --> 38:55.633 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's more money than they're going to be making off of Google search a year from now or two years from now and why give Google the satisfaction. 38:56.294 --> 38:58.215 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I disagree on that. 38:58.315 --> 39:04.861 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're making more money over over here than they are with Google now, but they're still making money, right? 39:05.041 --> 39:10.145 [SPEAKER_00]: So like, oh, but part of the deal, if you want the big bags of money, you've got to cut off Google. 39:10.165 --> 39:11.246 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't train Gemini. 39:12.220 --> 39:16.004 [SPEAKER_01]: And Amazon, let's say, Amazon is business. 39:16.024 --> 39:17.826 [SPEAKER_01]: This was completely built on long-tell search. 39:18.006 --> 39:22.090 [SPEAKER_01]: You need low volume keywords, right? 39:22.430 --> 39:35.783 [SPEAKER_01]: So Google is actually showing changes to their reviews, with more links, more definite underlines, more cards to try to get some clicks over to people. 39:35.863 --> 39:37.204 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's going to continue. 39:37.829 --> 39:40.810 [SPEAKER_01]: I do think that this is a long-play game here. 39:40.830 --> 39:43.351 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they're really intentionally wanting to never be in Google again. 39:43.371 --> 39:47.992 [SPEAKER_01]: I think they're hoping they can convince Google that they need them to train on and for their ad revenue. 39:49.373 --> 39:53.194 [SPEAKER_01]: So that they can play hardball, which, you know, I'm not the worst thing to do. 39:53.234 --> 40:03.737 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm just saying, if you really cut off your 15 million or 10 million people coming to your site, you're not gaining anything by doing that. 40:04.424 --> 40:08.267 [SPEAKER_01]: you're still losing 10 million or 15 million visitors if your log play does not work. 40:09.648 --> 40:29.823 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you, there's the other side of the coin is if you just keep producing vast amounts of content for anthropic for open AI, for anybody who's not Gemini, they'll give you continually lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and money perhaps more than Google was driving to you. 40:30.764 --> 40:31.204 [SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting. 40:32.433 --> 40:36.414 [SPEAKER_01]: No, maybe we'll see, but I don't think it's a good play. 40:36.434 --> 40:37.775 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a better place it can make. 40:39.575 --> 40:42.016 [SPEAKER_00]: Indeed, you know what, we've said all along. 40:42.056 --> 40:49.619 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's been web college's sort of motto from day one has been, this is Google's game to lose. 40:50.459 --> 40:53.160 [SPEAKER_00]: If your end Google's worst enemy, it's going to be itself. 40:53.820 --> 40:55.481 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right now it is itself for sure. 40:55.861 --> 40:58.902 [SPEAKER_01]: When I met my game nights, most people were not in tech. 41:00.482 --> 41:01.243 [SPEAKER_01]: And A.O.O. 41:01.283 --> 41:11.451 [SPEAKER_01]: reviews keep coming up as trash and Google keeps coming up as like a garbage search engine and where should they go they ask me what should they do, you know, because they, I mean, Google A.O.O. 41:11.471 --> 41:20.759 [SPEAKER_01]: reviews got the time things closed wrong twice on to the places I went last week and they get that information said to them by Google my business sites. 41:20.919 --> 41:23.482 [SPEAKER_01]: So how in the world was it, it would be wrong about times. 41:24.122 --> 41:24.723 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so. 41:25.687 --> 41:30.649 [SPEAKER_00]: If they're so inaccurate, but this is where the traffic's going, why should political give many information at all? 41:31.209 --> 41:32.009 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I get that. 41:32.069 --> 41:36.530 [SPEAKER_01]: I just still think that eventually they're going to have to go back to Google because they need the traffic. 41:37.110 --> 41:39.591 [SPEAKER_01]: So hopefully their long-play is coordinated in works. 41:39.751 --> 41:42.012 [SPEAKER_01]: Because Google is cutting it's no-suffer, it's nice. 41:43.589 --> 41:50.114 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I hope they do too because a lot of my work depends on the way Google operates to the machine. 41:50.354 --> 41:55.357 [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, a lot of my security rests in the Google first, but I don't know. 41:55.457 --> 42:00.581 [SPEAKER_00]: I think Google may have taken its own step too far several steps ago. 42:01.641 --> 42:02.302 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see. 42:02.502 --> 42:07.165 [SPEAKER_01]: When I get 30 social media results for medical query, they've gone too far. 42:09.197 --> 42:16.899 [SPEAKER_00]: I had to say that since it's old saying when I went bankrupt, first it happened really slowly and then it happened very suddenly. 42:16.919 --> 42:18.139 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's true. 42:19.079 --> 42:20.439 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what happens with Google. 42:20.639 --> 42:32.041 [SPEAKER_00]: I did a little trickle at the beginning and then suddenly there's a critical mass, the balance point shifts and the log just falls off the cliff. 42:33.862 --> 42:34.142 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see. 42:35.304 --> 42:39.005 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, by the way, um, it was making more money to never. 42:39.946 --> 42:42.706 [SPEAKER_00]: Who's ad revenues are up higher than ever. 42:43.307 --> 42:50.729 [SPEAKER_01]: Remember last last time we covered that I didn't put it in this week because there's fatigue stories like I couldn't find the set on one thing. 42:51.289 --> 42:58.031 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but remember 50% of that revenue last time was their investment in anthropic, which has produced an revenue. 42:58.051 --> 43:00.352 [SPEAKER_01]: So I still haven't figured out how that counts as revenue. 43:01.220 --> 43:05.803 [SPEAKER_00]: I like paper, do you know who the richest person in the world is? 43:06.804 --> 43:08.646 [SPEAKER_01]: I forgot, I haven't checked them last one. 43:08.666 --> 43:09.106 [SPEAKER_00]: Elon Musk. 43:10.127 --> 43:11.828 [SPEAKER_00]: He was $1 billion. 43:11.868 --> 43:12.668 [SPEAKER_01]: He was $1 billion. 43:13.589 --> 43:20.955 [SPEAKER_00]: Now he didn't lose a trillion dollars, he lost about $400 billion dollars, 40% of his wealth. 43:21.235 --> 43:24.898 [SPEAKER_00]: He's still the richest guy in the world, but I went and looked at this for some reason earlier today. 43:25.298 --> 43:27.880 [SPEAKER_00]: You know who number two and number three are, where do you surprise me? 43:29.861 --> 43:30.241 [SPEAKER_01]: I do not. 43:32.182 --> 43:32.862 [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, make sense. 43:34.063 --> 43:37.945 [SPEAKER_00]: After that comes a, uh, uh, uh, elicent from Oracle. 43:38.525 --> 43:41.367 [SPEAKER_00]: But Larry and certain are, uh, are two and three. 43:42.267 --> 43:45.089 [SPEAKER_01]: You know that, um, Oracle is one step above junk status. 43:45.989 --> 43:46.189 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. 43:46.730 --> 43:56.435 [SPEAKER_00]: As of last week, the, the, the, the, the point being, Google is still making ords and hordes and hordes and hordes. 43:56.755 --> 43:57.475 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, of course. 43:57.535 --> 44:00.117 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, it's because of this ad, and it gets how they hide the ads, 44:00.924 --> 44:07.287 [SPEAKER_01]: But on saying is in the last quarter, they've made more revenues than ever, but half of their revenue wasn't revenue. 44:07.387 --> 44:08.067 [SPEAKER_01]: It was an investment. 44:08.087 --> 44:08.927 [SPEAKER_01]: And I still don't understand. 44:08.967 --> 44:10.868 [SPEAKER_01]: I need someone financial to explain that to me. 44:11.629 --> 44:14.630 [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I think I may be able to do it in one sentence right now. 44:14.790 --> 44:16.110 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not their revenues. 44:16.391 --> 44:17.531 [SPEAKER_00]: It's hiding their losses. 44:18.071 --> 44:22.753 [SPEAKER_00]: They're pulling an enron trick where a lot of the losses are hidden in the purchases without names. 44:23.554 --> 44:26.875 [SPEAKER_01]: OK, stomachs and then for this one, I didn't report 44:30.175 --> 44:32.278 [SPEAKER_01]: That's other, who is Matt? 44:32.398 --> 44:34.741 [SPEAKER_01]: That's another thing. 44:34.761 --> 44:35.141 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 44:35.622 --> 44:45.093 [SPEAKER_01]: Has an article that I didn't get enough time to get in depth with, which is basically, they can't find anything gathered back up Google's claim of the amount of revenues they made this time. 44:45.173 --> 44:46.735 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, normally there's data behind it. 44:46.775 --> 44:49.278 [SPEAKER_01]: They can't find any data so far on the claim. 44:50.410 --> 44:55.155 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, the that is supposed to be the SEC declaration itself. 44:55.235 --> 44:57.857 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't, you can't lie on those. 44:57.937 --> 45:00.540 [SPEAKER_00]: You get in like so much freaking trouble for lying in those. 45:00.560 --> 45:00.700 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 45:01.221 --> 45:08.268 [SPEAKER_01]: But they made the claim last time in the revenue again was half their investment at the upper, which isn't on the SEC declaration for revenue. 45:09.289 --> 45:11.732 [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, I didn't get a chance to deep dive into. 45:11.752 --> 45:12.593 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I didn't put in here. 45:13.645 --> 45:17.428 [SPEAKER_00]: Google says it sends billions of clicks to websites, weekly, through AI search. 45:17.468 --> 45:20.630 [SPEAKER_00]: It very probably does, given the scale that Google works at. 45:21.150 --> 45:24.092 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it more billions per clicks, and traditional search sent? 45:24.553 --> 45:27.835 [SPEAKER_00]: Or less billions of clicks, and traditional search sent? 45:28.475 --> 45:36.361 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't done the deep dive on this, but I suspect it's less clicks. 45:38.002 --> 45:40.063 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's more clicks to a way greater number. 45:45.034 --> 45:51.236 [SPEAKER_00]: publishers and the people who sort of built the information ecosystem Google was built on. 45:52.636 --> 45:57.098 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is a C-round table and it's Nick Box from Google saying it. 45:57.298 --> 46:00.579 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to listen to this because we keep talking about the design. 46:00.919 --> 46:09.481 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I overview design is why they're stealing some of the clicks because Nick Box says how they've been designing it to send clicks to 46:12.765 --> 46:24.951 [SPEAKER_01]: But also, I thought the funny thing at the end, what I said, we've been continuing to improve, how we show links in our app, it features and search to make it easy for people to click to websites, which is something we've criticized in the heavily for. 46:25.511 --> 46:34.355 [SPEAKER_01]: But also at the very end, I love very, very, quote, Ravi Stein, or Google says, we're now sending billions of clicks to websites every week through ad features and search. 46:34.796 --> 46:39.518 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very, says at least someone is able to track clicks from an overview that I have moved, slightly based. 46:42.198 --> 46:45.739 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's their design, it's still so many clicks as we've talked about before. 46:45.759 --> 46:46.720 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not easy. 46:47.520 --> 46:56.643 [SPEAKER_00]: So, um, okay, this is kind of embarrassing, but like, maybe your conversation with Claude is a bit late, Doug Goule. 46:57.363 --> 47:07.486 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, when you went to your city, they're talking to Claude, it was like a person and stuff, but then they'd get a really, like, you know, telling them all about that thing that you haven't told anybody, not even if you're free to vote it off. 47:07.867 --> 47:09.967 [SPEAKER_00]: And well, you might want to go to 47:12.688 --> 47:17.573 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, look for an article called Plot AI shared chats indexed by Google. 47:17.673 --> 47:20.155 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, indexed by Google because that happened. 47:21.436 --> 47:24.318 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and lots of them, too, and not just a few. 47:24.419 --> 47:28.082 [SPEAKER_01]: So the was eating it, um, has the search. 47:28.262 --> 47:31.705 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a search tool that allows you to find out if you articles really. 47:31.745 --> 47:33.186 [SPEAKER_01]: And this has happened before. 47:33.206 --> 47:34.667 [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't the first time it's happened. 47:34.687 --> 47:35.168 [SPEAKER_01]: It happened. 47:35.915 --> 47:50.320 [SPEAKER_01]: Last year, the opening I, it also happened with a topic last year as well, but a little small scale, but basically never assume what you put into one of these large language models is not going to somehow wind up in the public. 47:50.881 --> 47:52.401 [SPEAKER_01]: What have you used it for too many times? 47:53.201 --> 47:54.762 [SPEAKER_00]: Why would you use your query for training? 47:55.362 --> 48:00.424 [SPEAKER_01]: They do say that they don't usually not always, though, I guess it depends on the version that you have. 48:00.444 --> 48:01.485 [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't, of course, they do. 48:02.165 --> 48:05.286 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I did show up in to show up in Google. 48:05.949 --> 48:08.210 [SPEAKER_01]: If you have those, you might want to go ahead and check it. 48:08.290 --> 48:16.693 [SPEAKER_01]: If you've been chat record, and 100,000 chat, 100,000 chat to boutique conversations are searchable on Google. 48:17.533 --> 48:22.315 [SPEAKER_00]: That's just, I mean, again, I don't, how to say, I've become really cynical. 48:22.335 --> 48:24.576 [SPEAKER_00]: This has been a exhausting week. 48:25.216 --> 48:32.579 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to get more exhausting as soon as I'm on, but I almost find this stuff laughable at this point because folks, it's been five years. 48:36.334 --> 48:38.717 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, 2002 it's been four years, almost five years. 48:39.277 --> 48:39.417 [SPEAKER_01]: 20. 48:39.497 --> 48:41.399 [SPEAKER_01]: You said 20. 48:41.459 --> 48:41.760 [SPEAKER_01]: 20. 48:41.820 --> 48:52.190 [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost been four, it's almost been four full years, which, you know, in internet time, especially in the age of AI, you know, acceleration culture, figure this stuff out quickly. 48:52.450 --> 48:52.770 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't. 48:53.771 --> 49:00.976 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of conversations with a free AI system, or even an open buffet AI system. 49:01.437 --> 49:12.584 [SPEAKER_00]: They're using to write your essays for you and stuff, because I'm telling you, you're not even coming close to paying for what you're using, so they're using you to pay for what you're doing. 49:13.185 --> 49:18.748 [SPEAKER_01]: The product is free, you are the product, or the product is super cheap and should be expensive. 49:24.668 --> 49:27.009 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and no client or two, we're gonna, I'm gonna search after this. 49:28.069 --> 49:29.590 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so they need to see if they're on there. 49:30.070 --> 49:32.811 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm, yeah, anyway, I'm terrified of those results too. 49:33.011 --> 49:37.552 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so this is a kind of heart-breaking. 49:38.873 --> 49:39.953 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a horrible one. 49:40.590 --> 49:47.595 [SPEAKER_00]: to AI has pretty much read everything that's been digitalized. 49:47.715 --> 49:50.056 [SPEAKER_00]: If it's been digitalized, it has been read. 49:50.557 --> 49:56.541 [SPEAKER_00]: So much so that there's nothing digitalized left to read, really, except new stuff that gets put up. 49:57.141 --> 50:15.702 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we have this for several years now, we've had the snake eating its own tail phenomena where AI, large language models are like sharks, they need to move forward, they need to be fed all the time training materials or they stagnate, they come dumb fast, if they don't get new stuff. 50:16.202 --> 50:24.105 [SPEAKER_00]: So to make new stuff, they've been trading on their own stuff that they write themselves, basically, we've reached it with a material as training material. 50:24.705 --> 50:34.008 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's still stuff that's been written down that might have been digitalized, but it still books, you know, it's still written material, but it's kept in antique books. 50:35.308 --> 50:41.170 [SPEAKER_00]: And the only way to get it is to take the book, rip the spine off and feed it page by page to a scanner. 50:43.496 --> 50:44.557 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's what they're doing. 50:44.577 --> 51:03.148 [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to, the, the, the, the large AI companies are going to antique shops antique book stores looking online at it for antiquarian literature and literally ripping it apart to feed their training models and then exposing the rest. 51:11.227 --> 51:12.048 [SPEAKER_01]: to one of them. 51:12.088 --> 51:22.536 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not, and I don't think it's in the 404 media article that I'm looking at, but I did one where they had like two botany books, like two print copies of a botany book from like the 1800s. 51:22.636 --> 51:31.883 [SPEAKER_01]: And these are being, as Jim said, they're taking the spines off and feeding them, but they're also destroying them after because according to a judge, they can find out if it's dead, it's gone. 51:32.423 --> 51:35.766 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, but he's still responding, but I'm just saying. 51:37.967 --> 51:38.868 [SPEAKER_00]: You've destroyed the book. 51:39.988 --> 51:41.328 [SPEAKER_01]: No, you can read, it's fine of book. 51:42.008 --> 51:44.069 [SPEAKER_01]: They have um, but what they do. 51:44.089 --> 51:45.189 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that was not. 51:45.949 --> 51:48.030 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess, Jim, I'm talking about that. 51:49.210 --> 51:50.470 [SPEAKER_01]: They, they, they are. 51:55.391 --> 51:58.392 [SPEAKER_01]: They, uh, they are actually destroying the books completely. 51:58.412 --> 52:04.753 [SPEAKER_01]: There, it's because the reason they're doing that is if the, uh, the judge said that they, um, 52:06.380 --> 52:14.021 [SPEAKER_01]: were able to do this if because there's only a digital copy left so then it wasn't copyright violation. 52:14.961 --> 52:18.042 [SPEAKER_01]: This is described as fair use. 52:18.062 --> 52:26.383 [SPEAKER_01]: So they're taking books that are hard to find or have very few print copies or antiques just and completely destroying them for training. 52:26.923 --> 52:32.304 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not even like they're making a digital copy that you can then get and review they're literally destroying the 52:36.719 --> 52:37.219 [SPEAKER_01]: Pretty awful. 52:37.259 --> 52:54.166 [SPEAKER_00]: All the books have to be pre 2022 to make sure they don't have AINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN 53:04.255 --> 53:18.181 [SPEAKER_01]: It is, my mom used to have all these old books, and I was growing out from the 1800s, like Shakespeare, and the paper was so beautiful, and because it wasn't regular paper, it was like this film almost, and it was incredible. 53:18.361 --> 53:28.546 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, and the I-S-V-N, who is the one who registers a book, basically, when you create a book, you have to get nice and number, so you want to sell it, you're a regular publisher. 53:31.045 --> 53:37.167 [SPEAKER_01]: it says that purchasing paper books is a scale from secondary market does not have to prime any creator income they wouldn't have otherwise received. 53:37.967 --> 53:44.669 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay, but they were it's crucial to recycle the destroyed books. 53:44.749 --> 53:50.031 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the completion of a book's lifestyle, a life cycle from tree to knowledge graph to tree again. 53:50.051 --> 53:54.392 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why, that's so I just wrong. 53:54.892 --> 53:58.373 [SPEAKER_01]: One guy did say though, he sells old and rare books, and he's like, yeah, 54:01.111 --> 54:04.132 [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I've just, so it's a double ad short for him. 54:04.152 --> 54:06.514 [SPEAKER_01]: He's making money, but he hates what he's making. 54:07.074 --> 54:08.094 [SPEAKER_01]: What he's making the money on. 54:08.975 --> 54:09.755 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 54:10.195 --> 54:11.236 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's truly sad. 54:12.676 --> 54:13.017 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 54:13.037 --> 54:15.798 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of these have the information will never be repeated anywhere. 54:16.118 --> 54:17.359 [SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, sorry. 54:18.479 --> 54:19.560 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you a Spotify user? 54:19.600 --> 54:21.000 [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone almost everybody is. 54:22.381 --> 54:24.202 [SPEAKER_00]: How else do you get music these days, right? 54:26.250 --> 54:29.072 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly, and I hope I am supposed to be a Spotify. 54:29.132 --> 54:40.662 [SPEAKER_00]: Most people use Spotify, and Spotify unfortunately uses AI to create new music, and sometimes copies of old music to... 54:42.598 --> 55:01.426 [SPEAKER_00]: share with you it's listening bass with doesn't have to pay royalties to the to the original artists or to whoever owns the copyright of the original artists music and that you know probably saves that scale a crap ton of money for for Spotify though. 55:01.526 --> 55:03.347 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that they're making 55:04.296 --> 55:06.518 [SPEAKER_01]: A. I. I. I. I miss that one. 55:06.539 --> 55:13.966 [SPEAKER_00]: Spotify's making is using AI to make music and then when you are looking for new music, you have new music recommended to you. 55:14.587 --> 55:21.014 [SPEAKER_00]: If set of recommending a band that they'd have to pay rights to, they recommend their AI music to you. 55:21.214 --> 55:25.078 [SPEAKER_01]: So the article on for me is about how I artists. 55:26.479 --> 55:46.308 [SPEAKER_01]: are flooding a Spotify not that they made it so they may be true to I don't know but in this case this is time or just like Sime dot from Vegas where I live currently has 100,000 monthly listeners on Spotify and it was even interviewed in GQ after sharing the images themselves posting with Drake on Instagram like that's how realistic these fake artists are. 55:46.873 --> 55:50.275 [SPEAKER_01]: But then, of course, they found out that the person was just an AI avatar. 55:51.736 --> 55:56.259 [SPEAKER_01]: And then, so there's a site that's burnt up called solosmusic.com is a data base here. 55:56.299 --> 56:01.162 [SPEAKER_01]: AI artists hiding on Spotify, no bands in the studio to solve just machines and melody. 56:01.723 --> 56:05.945 [SPEAKER_01]: So Slime Dot is listed as most certainly AI based on analysis of three of the tracks. 56:06.586 --> 56:11.409 [SPEAKER_01]: So they use AI to determine if the actual music is AI. 56:12.049 --> 56:13.470 [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's a whole bunch of AI 56:16.849 --> 56:20.010 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I went back and looked at the video and my, oh wait, this is not real. 56:20.270 --> 56:24.051 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I found a whole set of set of them that looked the same. 56:24.091 --> 56:25.591 [SPEAKER_01]: They looked like they're shot the same. 56:25.631 --> 56:27.532 [SPEAKER_01]: They'll start with the person's hand in the air. 56:28.092 --> 56:30.493 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I now never watch any of that. 56:31.733 --> 56:37.135 [SPEAKER_01]: But apparently Spotify could do better than they're doing on labeling things are there, but they're not. 56:38.055 --> 56:39.275 [SPEAKER_01]: And so they're just flooded. 56:39.315 --> 56:42.296 [SPEAKER_01]: So people like who run like solace music and stop. 56:42.965 --> 56:54.788 [SPEAKER_01]: checker are trying to detect it for people so that they know and you can always go look up on those sites, but I think it's really kind of responsibility to Spotify to be labeling the AI music as AI music. 56:56.169 --> 56:57.589 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like there's a company, Deezer. 56:58.309 --> 57:04.671 [SPEAKER_00]: Spotify competitor, it claims 44% of new music upload to his platform is generated by AI. 57:05.672 --> 57:05.972 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 57:06.632 --> 57:07.712 [SPEAKER_00]: So it can be tracked. 57:09.173 --> 57:09.853 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's true. 57:09.913 --> 57:10.633 [SPEAKER_01]: And I tell you, 57:11.217 --> 57:17.481 [SPEAKER_01]: When I hear it now, it's sort of like when we read it, it starts to have this certain recognition in my brain. 57:17.521 --> 57:25.486 [SPEAKER_01]: And I can hear the tone and the auto tune maybe, I don't know, but I can automatically they tell a lot of the times that it's an AI piece. 57:26.307 --> 57:36.994 [SPEAKER_01]: So if it wasn't that it was built on everybody else's creativity, creative other creators, maybe it wouldn't be a such a big deal, but that's what makes it a big deal to me. 57:39.627 --> 57:39.947 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 57:40.487 --> 57:45.149 [SPEAKER_00]: I view there's still ratings for social media. 57:46.769 --> 58:00.993 [SPEAKER_00]: I say still because it just feels like almost like a different world now that AI is rising and sort of taking over the conversation, social media almost seems like the venue rather than the story. 58:03.445 --> 58:03.985 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? 58:04.005 --> 58:09.548 [SPEAKER_00]: Like social media is where the AI suffocates publish, but he has with the media itself. 58:10.988 --> 58:23.713 [SPEAKER_00]: Facebook, meta, Instagram, WhatsApp are still reaching almost 45% of the world's population. 58:25.054 --> 58:25.574 [SPEAKER_00]: That's great. 58:25.714 --> 58:27.555 [SPEAKER_00]: On the own, on reporting, 3 billion people. 58:28.035 --> 58:28.815 [SPEAKER_01]: They're billion people. 58:28.835 --> 58:29.135 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 58:29.155 --> 58:32.517 [SPEAKER_01]: Although I just didn't remember one, Facebook itself reached like 3 billion 58:33.773 --> 58:37.735 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the combination of Facebook Instagram, and what's up from meta. 58:38.095 --> 58:43.317 [SPEAKER_00]: So, let's remember, a lot of us Facebook users are dying off, right? 58:45.198 --> 58:45.898 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not that old. 58:47.719 --> 58:48.599 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. 58:48.619 --> 58:50.460 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 58:50.480 --> 58:54.241 [SPEAKER_00]: However, many of its original users are that old. 58:55.302 --> 58:58.843 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a one of the younger people on the Facebook track replacing them. 59:00.204 --> 59:02.084 [SPEAKER_01]: The next largest is YouTube of course, 59:04.257 --> 59:09.119 [SPEAKER_01]: But matter yeah, still kicking it and then a lot of the after that, it's just a smaller and smaller and smaller. 59:10.000 --> 59:13.782 [SPEAKER_01]: So although interesting enough snapchat spinning, racing in users. 59:15.222 --> 59:18.364 [SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't, yeah, I didn't know that and so it's Pinterest. 59:19.384 --> 59:21.685 [SPEAKER_01]: I never hear anybody talk about Pinterest anymore. 59:22.886 --> 59:31.750 [SPEAKER_01]: So I find it interesting that they've had an increase in username and they're not coming even close to meta, but still it's interesting to see social media growing so so lot of cases it's long. 59:32.673 --> 59:34.213 [SPEAKER_00]: Reds apparently is taking off. 59:34.313 --> 59:41.215 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, it's almost catching up to acts with about 500 billion users measured each month. 59:42.076 --> 59:42.956 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's interesting. 59:43.036 --> 59:44.896 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, um, I've used it some locally. 59:44.996 --> 59:46.177 [SPEAKER_01]: It is hyper local. 59:46.257 --> 59:47.297 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really get on it. 59:47.857 --> 59:51.398 [SPEAKER_01]: Like if I type in, you can say, dear Algo, I'd tell you what it won. 59:51.538 --> 59:52.678 [SPEAKER_01]: You wanted to serve you. 59:53.439 --> 59:54.459 [SPEAKER_01]: And if I say lots of Vegas. 59:55.417 --> 59:57.439 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it's something everything is lost at you. 59:57.599 --> 59:59.981 [SPEAKER_01]: And I get lost at you as responses from real people. 01:00:00.041 --> 01:00:02.243 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's quite interesting. 01:00:02.343 --> 01:00:04.005 [SPEAKER_01]: So I can see why they'd be increasing for sure. 01:00:05.126 --> 01:00:09.750 [SPEAKER_00]: The web we're talking about today is really different than the web we were talking about. 01:00:10.070 --> 01:00:17.897 [SPEAKER_00]: Even 16 months ago, and I swear to goodness the web we're talking about January is going to be radically different than the web we're talking about today. 01:00:20.588 --> 01:00:22.830 [SPEAKER_00]: There's such an undercurrent of change happening. 01:00:22.870 --> 01:00:29.255 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I had it occurred to you until just now that threads might be catching up with the X or that X might have lost so much ground. 01:00:30.216 --> 01:00:35.061 [SPEAKER_01]: X, yes, because I know a lot of people just see it as violent, toxic, but that threads had gained so much. 01:00:35.101 --> 01:00:35.241 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 01:00:35.581 --> 01:00:36.362 [SPEAKER_01]: That was a surprise. 01:00:37.623 --> 01:00:38.364 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, again. 01:00:40.115 --> 01:00:47.197 [SPEAKER_00]: social media is used to be the story, you know, they were the main area of interest. 01:00:48.357 --> 01:01:01.080 [SPEAKER_00]: Now they almost seem like the venue where the interesting stuff is happening on, but the changes that are happening in where people are at is it's remarkably interesting. 01:01:03.301 --> 01:01:03.841 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree. 01:01:04.081 --> 01:01:04.401 [SPEAKER_01]: I agree. 01:01:04.441 --> 01:01:05.942 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, the younger people were using it last 01:01:07.866 --> 01:01:21.293 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if you want to be a cool kid in Gen Z, you're an analog, not a digital person and they tend to use one to two apps max as opposed to older generations use 35 on average of course. 01:01:22.433 --> 01:01:25.675 [SPEAKER_00]: So you know to that Instagram is seeing an increase in users. 01:01:28.095 --> 01:01:49.714 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, maybe I don't have something to do with easy access to AI's you can use with Instagram, but apparently a lot of Instagram users are using AI's with their Instagram feeds so much so that Instagram is, uh, well, really feeding the pinch on this and they're going to develop their tokenizing Instagram. 01:01:49.734 --> 01:01:52.817 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have to pay for AI access. 01:01:55.328 --> 01:01:57.089 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, it's kind of just too expensive. 01:01:57.309 --> 01:01:59.631 [SPEAKER_01]: This is an social media today, like the last article. 01:02:00.391 --> 01:02:03.853 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, it's just too expensive to keep giving for free. 01:02:03.893 --> 01:02:06.535 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you want the AI stuff in Instagram, you're going to have to pay for it. 01:02:07.195 --> 01:02:08.636 [SPEAKER_00]: Seems reasonable to me, actually. 01:02:08.956 --> 01:02:10.917 [SPEAKER_01]: And it will slow down some of the abuse, I'm sure. 01:02:10.937 --> 01:02:14.159 [SPEAKER_00]: Is there? 01:02:14.299 --> 01:02:16.521 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I imagine there would be a good deal of... 01:02:19.701 --> 01:02:23.384 [SPEAKER_00]: ethical abuse in an open environment. 01:02:23.684 --> 01:02:36.834 [SPEAKER_00]: I imagine the Instagram for some reason it's kind of feeling Instagram could have some very strict guardrails around the area, especially given the hell that access putting itself through by allowing pretty much any kind of sexualized content. 01:02:37.535 --> 01:02:38.776 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's still run by meta. 01:02:39.396 --> 01:02:41.178 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he still does a lot of bad stuff. 01:02:41.258 --> 01:02:46.362 [SPEAKER_01]: So hard to say, you know, his boss had talked to children and his 01:02:47.462 --> 01:02:55.930 [SPEAKER_01]: She nature sensual romantic jazz at 13 to 17 year old, so it's hard to say, but yeah, the other ones are far, far worse at this time. 01:02:59.373 --> 01:03:09.223 [SPEAKER_00]: Google is publishing how people basically, people are using it and it's tools in a report called Atlas. 01:03:12.862 --> 01:03:25.570 [SPEAKER_00]: Google researchers at the, again, at alphabet and Google DeepMind, well, they want to know how people use AI at work at home, what people talk about, what they're interested in. 01:03:30.253 --> 01:03:31.273 [SPEAKER_00]: And there are a lot of stuff. 01:03:31.293 --> 01:03:37.937 [SPEAKER_00]: So if a lot of them from home doesn't show up in official economic figures, although it's actual real 01:03:41.266 --> 01:03:51.369 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so this is some sort of change in general and it's basically like it talks about their port is looking at how Americans spend their days, you get a good sense of what they most out from that scoobly. 01:03:51.469 --> 01:04:02.433 [SPEAKER_01]: I about, but a few topics were breaking the patterns that expect it like, you blasted back government paperwork, health money and legal issues along with what to buy far more often than they deal with any of it. 01:04:03.253 --> 01:04:08.795 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they asked much less about eating dressing, cleaning and watching TV despite those activities taking it most certain. 01:04:09.745 --> 01:04:16.331 [SPEAKER_01]: which kind of makes sense because you really don't need to ask a lot about stuff you're doing all the time or doing with friends because you could just ask your friend. 01:04:16.371 --> 01:04:20.294 [SPEAKER_01]: So it makes sense that you're asking about things that people don't have a lot of information on. 01:04:20.974 --> 01:04:25.178 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, government paperwork actually often requires one or two Google searches. 01:04:25.678 --> 01:04:26.019 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:04:26.039 --> 01:04:27.580 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the way it is. 01:04:27.600 --> 01:04:29.662 [SPEAKER_00]: That makes a lot sense. 01:04:30.422 --> 01:04:36.587 [SPEAKER_00]: It's why I don't, anyway, I'm not sure why people 01:04:39.442 --> 01:04:44.743 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think we'll thought they would do more Gemini based on like the common activities, right? 01:04:44.763 --> 01:04:45.803 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, how do I do my makeup? 01:04:45.883 --> 01:04:47.084 [SPEAKER_01]: Or what would look good with this outfit? 01:04:47.104 --> 01:04:49.484 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what they're pushing through the AI tools, too. 01:04:50.044 --> 01:05:07.288 [SPEAKER_01]: But it covered 14.6, 65 million interactions from your Gemini app, AI mode, and AI search, and the Gemini API, and to US non-work conversation on the app and AI mode, and line them up with the American time use survey, which, of course, what America's do in America's doing there 01:05:10.142 --> 01:05:16.345 [SPEAKER_01]: So basically, people aren't really asking about things to do all the climate disaster and other things they don't really know, which I think makes complete sense. 01:05:16.365 --> 01:05:18.206 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think to Google, was it a bit of a surprise? 01:05:18.226 --> 01:05:27.010 [SPEAKER_01]: I was about asking about eating and drinking and restaurants and stuff for asking about, how do I feel at this DMB file? 01:05:30.727 --> 01:05:37.749 [SPEAKER_00]: Google search is using a later and more efficient Gemini model 3.5 flash light. 01:05:57.025 --> 01:06:01.808 [SPEAKER_00]: OK, Google is updating its call budget docs. 01:06:03.249 --> 01:06:15.416 [SPEAKER_00]: Apparently, every site starts on a what's called quote unquote conservative crawl, which explains why you can start watching British Bake Off material on YouTube and rapidly end up with Nazi content. 01:06:15.616 --> 01:06:16.917 [SPEAKER_00]: That's conservative crawl. 01:06:18.398 --> 01:06:22.300 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so this is on such an around table. 01:06:26.348 --> 01:06:29.069 [SPEAKER_01]: to improve clarity, terminology, consistency, and flow. 01:06:30.470 --> 01:06:41.736 [SPEAKER_01]: So new lines were added about every site starts, so those dreams that a default conservative crawl capacity limit, if there is demand to crawl more and the site remains healthy, Google systems will automatically adjust the summit over time. 01:06:41.756 --> 01:06:44.118 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're not healthy, they won't, obviously. 01:06:44.538 --> 01:06:48.100 [SPEAKER_01]: For Googlebot demand varies based on the site size. 01:06:48.180 --> 01:06:51.622 [SPEAKER_01]: Update frequency, page quality, relevance, compared to other sites. 01:06:55.219 --> 01:06:59.601 [SPEAKER_01]: While each color is a different crawl demand, the crawl capacity limit is shared among crawlers. 01:06:59.681 --> 01:07:06.885 [SPEAKER_01]: That means that high demand from one crawler can reduce the capacity available for others, such as the shopping bot. 01:07:08.066 --> 01:07:13.528 [SPEAKER_01]: And then HTTP cashings portfolio for not modified HTTP status codes. 01:07:13.768 --> 01:07:17.810 [SPEAKER_01]: If it's returning one of those, then it's a cash version and Google doesn't need to grow crawler again. 01:07:17.830 --> 01:07:19.131 [SPEAKER_01]: So those are the four major things. 01:07:20.534 --> 01:07:25.191 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so this is one of the reasons why your crawl stats are an important diagnostic tool. 01:07:25.713 --> 01:07:25.813 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh. 01:07:25.853 --> 01:07:26.315 [SPEAKER_01]: Huge. 01:07:28.041 --> 01:07:42.431 [SPEAKER_00]: If you suddenly see your crawl drop down and stay down for no reason at all, or if you've got a whole bunch of requests for stuff and no information you're getting to Google Indication, you've got a serious problem. 01:07:42.451 --> 01:07:49.636 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a bunch of different things you can tell by different situations you see in the crawl stats. 01:07:50.156 --> 01:07:52.058 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's cool that 01:07:53.890 --> 01:08:02.773 [SPEAKER_00]: Google's updated the information on crawlbudget, really useful language here. 01:08:02.793 --> 01:08:04.253 [SPEAKER_00]: Google can share with your crawls kind of funny. 01:08:04.954 --> 01:08:05.614 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't help. 01:08:05.854 --> 01:08:07.154 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't help if I'm a fine joke. 01:08:14.482 --> 01:08:19.005 [SPEAKER_00]: AI-generated content is often seen as thin content for a couple of reasons. 01:08:19.505 --> 01:08:21.286 [SPEAKER_00]: It spun out really, really quickly. 01:08:21.466 --> 01:08:25.329 [SPEAKER_00]: It's often edited poorly, even by the publishers themselves. 01:08:25.529 --> 01:08:30.612 [SPEAKER_00]: After it's been spun out for them, often people just kind of base them through it up. 01:08:31.412 --> 01:08:39.037 [SPEAKER_00]: It shows characteristics of other things that have been written by other authors or other AIs. 01:08:39.337 --> 01:08:40.158 [SPEAKER_00]: However, it got there. 01:08:40.999 --> 01:08:46.165 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, there's a number of other reasons why Google might see this in content. 01:08:46.185 --> 01:08:52.473 [SPEAKER_00]: You're suddenly through up like 18 pages, 18 blog posts in a three hour period. 01:08:54.155 --> 01:08:56.218 [SPEAKER_00]: My trip a couple of signals for Google there. 01:08:59.670 --> 01:09:05.834 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes AI content won't be seen as incontent, but that's often AI generated content that was worked on. 01:09:06.234 --> 01:09:09.736 [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll call that AI augmented content rather than generated. 01:09:10.677 --> 01:09:20.103 [SPEAKER_00]: Watch out for it though, I mean, because Google's expanding his definition of incontent as more AI stuff gets into the system. 01:09:20.883 --> 01:09:23.745 [SPEAKER_01]: And if the manual actions, so they can kind of just include it under there. 01:09:23.765 --> 01:09:26.527 [SPEAKER_01]: They have an using spam to make an action for spam. 01:09:27.774 --> 01:09:38.920 [SPEAKER_01]: But one of the things this was triggered by a Reddit post where someone received a manual action, but they didn't receive a manual action on the thing content they thought they actually had is on the AI generated content. 01:09:38.940 --> 01:09:41.741 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why they believe they're reacting on that. 01:09:41.821 --> 01:09:49.605 [SPEAKER_01]: And also because the definition of thing content includes content that doesn't basically add anything to the conversation. 01:09:50.485 --> 01:09:55.688 [SPEAKER_01]: If your content doesn't add anything which AI content can't because AI content can't write outside its training, 01:09:56.623 --> 01:10:03.970 [SPEAKER_01]: Therefore, it will not add anything new to the conversation, it could be considered thin, even if it's not what you would normally consider thin. 01:10:05.492 --> 01:10:10.216 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I thought it's an interesting case study in search engine roundtable. 01:10:10.396 --> 01:10:11.637 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, such a general, sorry. 01:10:11.657 --> 01:10:12.198 [SPEAKER_01]: Roger Monti. 01:10:12.858 --> 01:10:13.339 [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of ours. 01:10:17.923 --> 01:10:19.144 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just stress this enough. 01:10:20.470 --> 01:10:29.157 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're using AI content, you've probably got your reasons for doing it, but you're taking risk doing so. 01:10:29.597 --> 01:10:29.918 [SPEAKER_00]: Cool. 01:10:30.118 --> 01:10:32.139 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're cool with risk, be cool with risk. 01:10:44.575 --> 01:11:00.527 [SPEAKER_00]: Google wants content that has a original insight, your research, your analysis, or some expert analysis, quote somebody else, but quote somebody, give your reader something useful, or it's crappy content. 01:11:01.869 --> 01:11:02.950 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. 01:11:03.270 --> 01:11:14.115 [SPEAKER_01]: And I still think this is just my own theory, and nothing to base it on other than years experiences, updates that there's probably going to be an AI update on content coming in the spring. 01:11:14.375 --> 01:11:18.157 [SPEAKER_00]: But I can just, I suspect that nobody has been and they just didn't say it's an AI update. 01:11:18.518 --> 01:11:22.340 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think they're already looking for telltale sit symbols and markers and shut, yeah. 01:11:22.440 --> 01:11:25.101 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think they're doing it through the crawled nut index. 01:11:25.932 --> 01:11:31.435 [SPEAKER_01]: in the GSC designation, but for the problem with that is most people don't look at that. 01:11:31.515 --> 01:11:36.357 [SPEAKER_01]: I do, and SEO gets because you're a great, easy way to look at it, just tell you how many pages you're indexed. 01:11:36.477 --> 01:11:44.401 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that Google is going to have to do something more overt if they want people to react to it, because most of the centers aren't going to know that they've been de-addixed. 01:11:45.801 --> 01:11:46.882 [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't check that stuff. 01:11:47.857 --> 01:11:48.237 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't know. 01:11:48.257 --> 01:11:59.422 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, this is, the funny thing is, I assume, when we're talking with stories, yes, I assume that we're talking to an audience that does do stuff. 01:11:59.442 --> 01:12:01.362 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess it only gets the best he doesn't stuff. 01:12:02.643 --> 01:12:10.146 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope I'm not being a dead horse in people's ears, but this is why you hire SEOs, especially technical SEOs, to check your stuff out for you because they know to look there. 01:12:11.346 --> 01:12:11.907 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. 01:12:12.667 --> 01:12:12.987 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. 01:12:13.007 --> 01:12:15.148 [SPEAKER_01]: I was just referring to general, I am hope. 01:12:15.639 --> 01:12:19.821 [SPEAKER_01]: And hoping SEO is no to look for the, you know, call that index to see what's going on. 01:12:22.122 --> 01:12:33.867 [SPEAKER_00]: Earlier, Christine noted that you really can't have like two robots text files sitting in your route and expect to Google to know which one is the right one is just going to ignore both can't have two files name the same thing. 01:12:34.628 --> 01:12:36.429 [SPEAKER_00]: Similarly, if you. 01:12:39.912 --> 01:12:47.359 [SPEAKER_00]: Name Googlebot or some variation there of twice in your robot sex files. 01:12:49.401 --> 01:12:59.770 [SPEAKER_00]: You may screw up your on your on SEO. 01:13:01.291 --> 01:13:04.194 [SPEAKER_00]: Why the robot sex file cause spam to be indexed? 01:13:05.934 --> 01:13:18.431 [SPEAKER_00]: There was an error causing Google to ignore a directive for a hibiting Googlebot from indexing search results pages, and which case, basically they were Google was referencing its own content on a page. 01:13:18.511 --> 01:13:18.852 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it. 01:13:20.560 --> 01:13:26.723 [SPEAKER_01]: People in need to remember a robots text file is just a suggestion directive meaning Google can override it. 01:13:27.543 --> 01:13:32.045 [SPEAKER_01]: So like let's say you have a page in the robots text file that it's getting traffic. 01:13:32.465 --> 01:13:36.447 [SPEAKER_01]: Google might decide that you may not mistake and they will go ahead and index that page. 01:13:36.978 --> 01:13:41.340 [SPEAKER_01]: It's always indexed the URL, by the way, I'd like to say in the description and we can't read the rest of the page, basically. 01:13:42.080 --> 01:13:43.881 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, and this was a specific case. 01:13:43.901 --> 01:13:45.242 [SPEAKER_01]: You see, Shopify, I believe. 01:13:46.722 --> 01:13:54.125 [SPEAKER_01]: It said, how to be safe from search box, spam, block your search results, your search page results, if you have an internal search, always. 01:13:54.686 --> 01:14:01.308 [SPEAKER_01]: Never, ever leave it out there for the public, because there's other things you can happen, like the side I worked on, where 20 years of, 01:14:03.579 --> 01:14:06.942 [SPEAKER_01]: hammers and hackers found out that they could create pages on the site. 01:14:07.442 --> 01:14:14.027 [SPEAKER_01]: In the words they typed in the search, went into the idle description, the H1 and the URL, and then they just push links at it. 01:14:14.667 --> 01:14:18.590 [SPEAKER_01]: And that would send people to that page or they divert it to another page. 01:14:18.751 --> 01:14:20.832 [SPEAKER_01]: One more happened to be a adult site. 01:14:21.052 --> 01:14:22.934 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm always locked at that down. 01:14:23.074 --> 01:14:28.098 [SPEAKER_01]: Never leave it open, and don't believe that the robots text is going to prevent that from happening. 01:14:28.678 --> 01:14:31.160 [SPEAKER_01]: You want to make sure that it's shut down with a no-index tag. 01:14:33.991 --> 01:14:37.172 [SPEAKER_01]: We can't use it with a robot's text. 01:14:37.372 --> 01:14:44.593 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to guarantee Google does a director, Google follows a directive about a specific content on a specific page. 01:14:45.573 --> 01:14:50.894 [SPEAKER_00]: Take your intent on that page and the head section of that page itself. 01:14:51.694 --> 01:14:55.555 [SPEAKER_00]: So that when the crawler comes to that page, it knows how to treat that page's information. 01:14:55.575 --> 01:15:01.816 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't rely on it understanding what you said in the robot text file and following that directive all the way through the website. 01:15:02.658 --> 01:15:04.600 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, it usually does, but it doesn't have to. 01:15:04.881 --> 01:15:07.264 [SPEAKER_01]: So can't ignore it if it's used to. 01:15:09.427 --> 01:15:11.489 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so this is a weird one. 01:15:12.390 --> 01:15:16.736 [SPEAKER_00]: Google is not a thinking machine, but sometimes Google needs to catch up with itself. 01:15:18.251 --> 01:15:21.732 [SPEAKER_00]: Google is a lot of working parts working together. 01:15:21.752 --> 01:15:25.154 [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine a Swiss watch that has a couldjillion different cogs in it, okay? 01:15:25.194 --> 01:15:28.615 [SPEAKER_00]: And some cogs are bigger than the other and work at different speeds than the other. 01:15:29.076 --> 01:15:33.357 [SPEAKER_00]: But they all somehow synchronized with each other in one way or it's synchronized with each other. 01:15:34.158 --> 01:15:34.858 [SPEAKER_00]: Google's like that. 01:15:37.060 --> 01:15:46.573 [SPEAKER_00]: But sometimes it doesn't sync up as some parts of it don't sync up as quickly as other parts, however. 01:15:47.355 --> 01:15:51.400 [SPEAKER_00]: If you change your address in Google Business profile, for instance, 01:15:52.853 --> 01:15:57.517 [SPEAKER_00]: And other parts of Google still think your address is somewhere different. 01:15:57.557 --> 01:16:04.502 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it hasn't recalled your contact page and its old version of the contact page as what it now has as a contradictory information. 01:16:05.362 --> 01:16:10.126 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe other people's contact pages for you have an updated and it's being fed contradictory information. 01:16:10.846 --> 01:16:17.311 [SPEAKER_00]: Changing your address in Google Business Profile doesn't necessarily mean Google Business Profile is going to accept that your address is changed. 01:16:18.272 --> 01:16:19.233 [SPEAKER_00]: That's your problem. 01:16:20.030 --> 01:16:43.891 [SPEAKER_01]: guys this year also we had like I was working with a law firm or one of the partners left we had to take partners name off and I talked to Darren Shaw is one of the experts in local search and he said make sure you change everything everywhere else first before you tried to change your business profile because they may reject it or they may not take it so we changed it in every directory everywhere there was a listing anywhere you could find it in this case you're also 01:16:47.033 --> 01:16:50.535 [SPEAKER_01]: Your address was originally hidden or a PO box or virtual office. 01:16:51.716 --> 01:16:57.800 [SPEAKER_01]: Google may not understand that you're changing to real one, you know, real address. 01:16:58.981 --> 01:17:00.702 [SPEAKER_01]: This is an article in Search Engine Land, by the way. 01:17:02.423 --> 01:17:04.985 [SPEAKER_01]: So you want to, if you have any issues, you're about to change your address. 01:17:05.005 --> 01:17:10.549 [SPEAKER_01]: You probably should look at this article because there's a whole lot of scenarios they give and how to address them. 01:17:11.574 --> 01:17:15.976 [SPEAKER_00]: What is worth this happens because Google's job is to verify stuff for forward publishers information. 01:17:16.337 --> 01:17:16.777 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:17:16.857 --> 01:17:25.361 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not trying to screw over or try to penalize you for making a change that is a logical change that happens business is all the time. 01:17:26.421 --> 01:17:31.404 [SPEAKER_00]: It's quote unquote screwing you over because it needs to verify that what you're saying is in fact true. 01:17:32.184 --> 01:17:32.404 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:17:32.424 --> 01:17:35.826 [SPEAKER_00]: So what Christine said, anywhere it could verify, change it there first. 01:17:37.082 --> 01:17:47.892 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and also read the starter quote because it talks about everything from moving to cross state lines to going from virtual to real from, you know, so all these conditions in here that you should check out to make sure you know what you're doing before you do it. 01:17:48.153 --> 01:17:53.778 [SPEAKER_01]: Do not change your Google business profile unless you're 100% sure you know what you are doing because you can completely scare yourself up. 01:17:55.615 --> 01:17:55.875 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 01:17:56.156 --> 01:17:58.478 [SPEAKER_00]: So Google's expanded its review guidelines. 01:17:58.578 --> 01:18:07.707 [SPEAKER_00]: It was morning of manual actions if you mess around with product or usage or human review guidelines. 01:18:08.628 --> 01:18:14.073 [SPEAKER_00]: Google wants authentic human insights that's important as a recommendation. 01:18:14.113 --> 01:18:15.215 [SPEAKER_00]: It's also important. 01:18:16.876 --> 01:18:25.426 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, for Google's mission of verification, yes, this product really does what it says it does, because all these humans over here are saying it does. 01:18:26.347 --> 01:18:30.812 [SPEAKER_00]: If it's a whole bunch of bots saying this product does what it says it does, Google's not verifying anything. 01:18:30.973 --> 01:18:35.358 [SPEAKER_00]: So it gets nothing out of that experience, now they do its users and they just get spammed. 01:18:35.978 --> 01:18:40.739 [SPEAKER_00]: So, it's introduced three new prohibitions on review content. 01:18:41.380 --> 01:18:49.942 [SPEAKER_00]: It's about authenticity, and again, if you screw with it, you're going to, you may see some bands. 01:18:50.322 --> 01:18:57.924 [SPEAKER_00]: One of them don't include fake or undisclosed, it's sentivide reviews on your page, or in your structured data markup. 01:18:59.024 --> 01:19:00.925 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the search of data markup is the big one. 01:19:01.963 --> 01:19:04.824 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't know, there's our controversy does do the ever use it. 01:19:04.844 --> 01:19:08.065 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they do use Dr. Data Markup definitely for certain things. 01:19:08.525 --> 01:19:15.527 [SPEAKER_01]: And since review show and search results, 100% as rich as if you want to make sure you're not violating the guidelines in any way here. 01:19:15.547 --> 01:19:20.129 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you lose it getting it back as hard. 01:19:21.447 --> 01:19:23.208 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so this is a search engine journal piece. 01:19:23.328 --> 01:19:29.451 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a number of different prohibitions on review content, don't break them. 01:19:31.312 --> 01:19:36.094 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to be a genuine experience or they don't want anything to do with it. 01:19:36.834 --> 01:19:44.638 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you exchange benefit for it, money discounts vouchers or even free products, and it's not disclosed. 01:19:45.658 --> 01:19:47.179 [SPEAKER_00]: Then you're violating a rule. 01:19:47.319 --> 01:20:05.492 [SPEAKER_00]: You can you can you can give somebody a free product to review that product But you got to say you gave them a free product to review Or the review has to say I received a free product for this review Yes, I'll never stop always make sure there are authentic Because think of something you can do 01:20:09.726 --> 01:20:16.928 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just be able to apply for selected policy certifications directly within Google Add Accounts. 01:20:17.088 --> 01:20:29.271 [SPEAKER_00]: This could be like social casino games, submitting an application so you could use copyright content. 01:20:32.172 --> 01:20:33.032 [SPEAKER_00]: What else do we have here? 01:20:38.545 --> 01:20:40.430 [SPEAKER_00]: So, as you can see in the game, there are some questions. 01:20:43.278 --> 01:20:43.619 [SPEAKER_01]: Just in? 01:20:57.563 --> 01:21:00.505 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, this great song, so you heard, is me trying to look up this story. 01:21:00.545 --> 01:21:16.836 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a, uh, the Google's rolling out in account sort of occasion applications, uh, advertisers will be able to, uh, let people, again, certified themselves directly with a legal ad accounts existing, so she can see no games, sort of, cages are going to remain valid to see. 01:21:16.856 --> 01:21:17.216 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry. 01:21:17.236 --> 01:21:18.757 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even understand this story. 01:21:19.578 --> 01:21:22.100 [SPEAKER_00]: Probably I have a conversation with someone when she gets back. 01:21:22.660 --> 01:21:23.541 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm here, I'm here, I'm here. 01:21:24.762 --> 01:21:25.442 [SPEAKER_01]: Look up, look up. 01:21:26.585 --> 01:21:39.408 [SPEAKER_00]: I just got stuck with Dead Air on a story that I'm not sure I understand or how it's even, anyway, social casino games, certifications, what are we talking about here? 01:21:42.429 --> 01:21:47.070 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so they can do policy certifications within their Google ad accounts on these types of ads. 01:21:50.388 --> 01:21:56.853 [SPEAKER_00]: OK, if you want your punters to be certified, they can get certified within the Google account. 01:21:58.334 --> 01:22:00.796 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, that's so much it. 01:22:02.117 --> 01:22:02.878 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry. 01:22:02.958 --> 01:22:07.101 [SPEAKER_00]: OK, so I really hate getting online gambling. 01:22:07.281 --> 01:22:15.147 [SPEAKER_00]: But OK, they can get certified inside of the advertisement environment itself. 01:22:18.596 --> 01:22:20.998 [SPEAKER_00]: Google Maps didn't turn off open table reservations. 01:22:21.018 --> 01:22:21.839 [SPEAKER_00]: That was just a rumor. 01:22:22.799 --> 01:22:24.420 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's just a fear that it happened. 01:22:24.480 --> 01:22:25.461 [SPEAKER_01]: It didn't actually happen. 01:22:26.142 --> 01:22:31.585 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is good because they were using them all the time here in the youth. 01:22:31.946 --> 01:22:38.370 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't re-enense and re-enense all Google and YouTube Shopify apps. 01:22:41.118 --> 01:22:42.079 [SPEAKER_01]: No, this is a weird one. 01:22:42.099 --> 01:22:42.759 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:22:42.859 --> 01:22:50.964 [SPEAKER_00]: Even if the API is screwing up on you, I imagine there's a bunch of records attached to your app. 01:22:51.024 --> 01:22:54.767 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you new kit, you new clothes records. 01:22:55.567 --> 01:22:58.349 [SPEAKER_00]: Google's working on it and they're going to, they're going to fix something. 01:22:59.570 --> 01:23:01.591 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, basically this is the extent of the story. 01:23:01.651 --> 01:23:04.233 [SPEAKER_01]: It's based on the merchant API and the content. 01:23:05.468 --> 01:23:22.671 [SPEAKER_01]: Content API merchant API if they're not updating don't do something like uninstall means all the apps which is a common fix for apps that don't seem to be working But don't do it here, or you'll have a mess to deal with Google Merchant Center wants merchants to get more out of their analytics and 01:23:24.652 --> 01:23:28.573 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I'd use a reach out experience, who's understanding of their users. 01:23:28.993 --> 01:23:41.716 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're adding more AI features on AI summary for insights gained from merchant center, search box with suggested queries, and a section for previous chats you may have had with the AI. 01:23:42.536 --> 01:23:46.797 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, and an AI summary for insights from the system search engine, and I'll tell you. 01:23:48.499 --> 01:24:06.128 [SPEAKER_01]: And then just some quick fast stories of being test fading out related searches on hover just seems weird you have her over it and the related searches go away you take the hover off with your mouse or hand and then come back some weird but it's a thing. 01:24:06.903 --> 01:24:07.463 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not crazy. 01:24:07.483 --> 01:24:08.023 [SPEAKER_01]: You're not crazy. 01:24:08.083 --> 01:24:08.924 [SPEAKER_01]: It just appears. 01:24:09.764 --> 01:24:10.224 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to. 01:24:10.765 --> 01:24:13.786 [SPEAKER_01]: Bing test image section and shopping panel. 01:24:13.826 --> 01:24:15.926 [SPEAKER_01]: So now they have a section of images and a shopping panel. 01:24:15.966 --> 01:24:16.827 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, if it pops up. 01:24:17.187 --> 01:24:17.427 [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing. 01:24:17.447 --> 01:24:18.087 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going on. 01:24:18.107 --> 01:24:20.228 [SPEAKER_01]: It just this is a new interface of testing. 01:24:21.008 --> 01:24:23.469 [SPEAKER_01]: Bing test open site links, buttons and search. 01:24:23.529 --> 01:24:26.951 [SPEAKER_01]: So instead of just a link, there's an actual button like the pill buttons. 01:24:28.031 --> 01:24:32.453 [SPEAKER_01]: And Google AI mode and chatchipeteer testing bottom card citations. 01:24:33.283 --> 01:24:41.547 [SPEAKER_01]: citations in the bottom part of the overview or the, or, yeah, and chatchipsy both of the same thing. 01:24:41.807 --> 01:24:46.770 [SPEAKER_01]: So, more citations always good for sites. 01:24:46.830 --> 01:24:53.674 [SPEAKER_01]: And in our final story, which I just loved, I thought that was cute, it's for for media, is, did you know this was the thing? 01:24:53.754 --> 01:25:02.198 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even know what was the thing, but, it's a, a marching play about dislike of AI. 01:25:02.888 --> 01:25:06.610 [SPEAKER_01]: No, the summer of blood, oh, okay. 01:25:07.390 --> 01:25:11.192 [SPEAKER_01]: So in New York, there was a tech backlash as a real thing. 01:25:11.232 --> 01:25:16.915 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a trend we've been reporting on, you know, Gen Z doesn't want things a lot to do with tech right now. 01:25:16.975 --> 01:25:18.016 [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely not AI. 01:25:18.516 --> 01:25:22.098 [SPEAKER_01]: Lots of people are distrusting an AI as opposed to a proving over the year ago. 01:25:22.598 --> 01:25:27.801 [SPEAKER_01]: And so now there it was the summer of the blood for such a long weekend in New York City. 01:25:27.901 --> 01:25:29.242 [SPEAKER_01]: People went out and did 01:25:30.741 --> 01:25:44.252 [SPEAKER_01]: They're down to pointy hats and dance of the streets chanting anti big text slogans They're called the Luddite Nomes people in colorful pointy homemade hats It was a march as well as Jim was saying and it says interesting. 01:25:44.852 --> 01:25:56.962 [SPEAKER_01]: I am technically what they call a modern day Luddite and a Neoluddite Which is not people originally Luddite censorship can pop charm in hearing those probably more about it than I do 01:25:57.476 --> 01:26:05.637 [SPEAKER_01]: But the original ledites weren't anti-tech, they were just anti-the dehumanization of the workforce and tech using tech. 01:26:06.248 --> 01:26:10.569 [SPEAKER_01]: So like they would jam up the automatic sewing machines or the weavers. 01:26:11.129 --> 01:26:13.670 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no beginning of the industrial revolution. 01:26:13.710 --> 01:26:16.671 [SPEAKER_00]: So there wasn't really a framework about being anti-tech. 01:26:16.691 --> 01:26:23.973 [SPEAKER_00]: This was a whole wave of stuff that was being introduced that separated the worker from the work. 01:26:24.773 --> 01:26:30.295 [SPEAKER_00]: And so weavers, for instance, were immediately unemployed because there was machines that would do the weaving for them. 01:26:31.255 --> 01:26:43.423 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, uh, pretty much every industry that relied on human hands that could be automated in the middle of machines of the beginning of the steam industrial revolution was done so displacing a crap ton of workers. 01:26:43.983 --> 01:26:52.288 [SPEAKER_00]: They had all just moved off the land and moved into the city 20 years previously to get these factories up and running before they were automated. 01:26:53.648 --> 01:27:05.833 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that kind of pissed off a generation of people, again, who had been uprooted, taken away from one mean to the economic support, and then had the rug pulled out from them with the new mean to the economic support. 01:27:06.194 --> 01:27:13.657 [SPEAKER_00]: And their reaction to it was, you know, in some cases quite violent, they destroyed the machines, because the machines were destroying them. 01:27:14.657 --> 01:27:16.537 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of that's happening today with young people. 01:27:16.597 --> 01:27:21.198 [SPEAKER_00]: They've been fed a diet for making this stuff that's not only good to the thinking for you. 01:27:21.218 --> 01:27:25.739 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to take your job away and all the purpose that, you know, we set out for people. 01:27:25.939 --> 01:27:29.900 [SPEAKER_00]: By the way, that massive student loan you have, well, sucker, sorry about that. 01:27:30.800 --> 01:27:35.481 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're kind of pissed, much like people were at the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. 01:27:36.782 --> 01:27:40.862 [SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting to think that this is a whole article about following the summer of 01:27:44.158 --> 01:27:57.588 [SPEAKER_01]: Journalist at four or four media as he said that it'd be easy to be cynical and and for them to be cynical, but most of the events that he went to during the summer of blood were joyful events for sure. 01:27:57.828 --> 01:28:00.570 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he said that 01:28:01.628 --> 01:28:04.829 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very, people don't read articles, a lot of detail in here that we just can't go over it. 01:28:04.889 --> 01:28:09.511 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, but I just thought it was a nice piece to end on, basically, what's that? 01:28:09.571 --> 01:28:23.435 [SPEAKER_00]: For years, I was part of, when I was much younger, I was part of the piece and environmental movements, and we would have these massive demonstrations talking about, you know, there are fears of nuclear army getting. 01:28:24.776 --> 01:28:33.564 [SPEAKER_00]: or what's happening right now with the Anthropocene, the massive effects of global warming. 01:28:33.604 --> 01:28:35.766 [SPEAKER_00]: We were warning about this years and years ago. 01:28:36.166 --> 01:28:45.194 [SPEAKER_00]: And what we were talking about apocalyptic stuff, we were dancing in the streets and really enjoying each other's company and getting hope and support from each other. 01:28:46.475 --> 01:29:05.988 [SPEAKER_00]: that the modern libraries are doing much the same thing, but unfortunately, as I learned as a piece and environmental activist, I really hope that they build lifelong networks that sustain them from these movements. 01:29:13.830 --> 01:29:15.371 [SPEAKER_01]: the push back against tech. 01:29:15.391 --> 01:29:30.866 [SPEAKER_01]: So I said, um, the author, it's tempting to compare the spectacle to something from the days of occupied Wall Street, but what the system of led a part from one might expect of a ledic protest is like a cynicism and an overwhelming abundance of energy and our kick joy. 01:29:31.482 --> 01:29:36.664 [SPEAKER_01]: far from the distorted character of Luddite, it's character of Luddites as commercially puritanical testisters. 01:29:37.084 --> 01:29:59.773 [SPEAKER_01]: The new Luddites attract people to their movement, playfulness and participation, set of saving others for too much, screen time, these public events, these are all free, by the way, to make their points for them, demonstrating organically and in real time, that the indispensable tech we've organized allows around is not so indispensable after all, which is more their message is that you can meet people in real life, you can do things in real life, 01:30:01.171 --> 01:30:12.196 [SPEAKER_01]: You can be analog and you're still going to have tech as part of your life, but it is not the indispensable must be must be a part of everything kind of circumstance. 01:30:12.216 --> 01:30:13.797 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's a fascinating little 01:30:14.978 --> 01:30:21.000 [SPEAKER_01]: So culturally, my turn into a big culture, given everything it's going on with the idea of centers that we've reported on and the other things we've worked on today. 01:30:21.280 --> 01:30:24.201 [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe, maybe, but yeah, maybe we'll see. 01:30:24.381 --> 01:30:42.047 [SPEAKER_00]: We will honestly see the, I got a feeling economics is going to have a lot more impact on the trajectory of the AI companies, their big plans as we understood them last year are not going to come to fruition. 01:30:42.807 --> 01:30:43.548 [SPEAKER_00]: The money isn't there. 01:30:43.909 --> 01:31:02.788 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just not going to be there no matter how much you take from Every living American the money still will not be there And that's that's the last Resource right now is the people themselves and so they are actively doing that But the money won't be there 01:31:03.868 --> 01:31:18.011 [SPEAKER_00]: I need to keep throwing in and, you know, Margaret Thatcher had a saying that I think that the Trump regime and some of the AI oligarchs or technology arcs might want to listen to. 01:31:18.952 --> 01:31:24.333 [SPEAKER_00]: Socialism is wonderful when you're understand you're spending other people's money. 01:31:27.325 --> 01:31:31.406 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, because that's kind of what's happening with the AI dream. 01:31:31.426 --> 01:31:32.426 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think it's a lot of eight. 01:31:32.446 --> 01:31:33.467 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're going to take it down. 01:31:33.767 --> 01:31:34.667 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's themselves. 01:31:34.687 --> 01:31:35.687 [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to take it down. 01:31:36.948 --> 01:31:37.688 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I agree. 01:31:37.728 --> 01:31:40.149 [SPEAKER_00]: Expectations that are just not sizurable. 01:31:41.009 --> 01:31:46.630 [SPEAKER_01]: And in that story, we'll be covering for this week because we time travel to Monday and they're not going to get into it now. 01:31:46.730 --> 01:31:48.351 [SPEAKER_01]: But there is more. 01:31:49.553 --> 01:32:01.621 [SPEAKER_00]: Circular financing that is very much concerning people the end-round thing right the end-round the end-round Dodge when I was talking with but there were yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a fun story I'd love this one We'll be talking about that now. 01:32:01.661 --> 01:32:04.823 [SPEAKER_01]: We got it in the future, which is actually in three days 01:32:05.563 --> 01:32:33.517 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and we're very far in the past because we've gone around full clock up and then some of this we got to get out of here on behalf of Christine Chackinger from sites without walls is Jim head here from just a low east media you've been listening to web ecology that was supposed to have been recorded on Thursday July the 23rd, but it ended up being recorded on Monday July the 27th for numerous reasons all of them are the real good. 01:32:34.217 --> 01:32:44.806 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, on Baffer Christine, this is Jim, be good to each other, be kind to each other, um, be patient, rank well, do all the right things on your website. 01:32:45.026 --> 01:32:52.933 [SPEAKER_00]: SEO is still the way into the mindset of every computer user, at least 90% of them out there. 01:32:53.153 --> 01:32:53.974 [SPEAKER_00]: Keep on doing it. 01:32:54.574 --> 01:32:55.976 [SPEAKER_00]: We love you, and we'll talk to you next week. 01:32:56.436 --> 01:32:57.177 [SPEAKER_01]: Bye, everybody.