WEBVTT 00:00.847 --> 00:10.936 [SPEAKER_01]: Survivor Specialist, John and McKenna are back as always with Kyle to talk about some first jurors and their impacts on their seasons. 00:11.056 --> 00:12.678 [SPEAKER_01]: This is bitter or better. 00:12.698 --> 00:16.721 [SPEAKER_01]: And we've got another crop of five for you. 00:17.082 --> 00:19.344 [SPEAKER_01]: We thought we were out of the dark ages. 00:21.096 --> 00:31.320 [SPEAKER_01]: which I guess we are, because some of these seasons are great, but man, I don't have a lot to say about some of these first jurors because I don't think they impacted much. 00:31.340 --> 00:45.706 [SPEAKER_02]: I think we're entering an era where the game of survivors really shift in and it doesn't fully shift until after the section of five, but this is where we release the transition into the big moves era. 00:46.646 --> 00:49.768 [SPEAKER_02]: And because of that, I think we start seeing our first jurors get a little more 00:51.577 --> 00:54.818 [SPEAKER_02]: unless they're like really pivotal to the story line. 00:54.858 --> 01:00.421 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think out of all of these five seasons for covering today, that only really happens once. 01:02.401 --> 01:07.383 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I was just taking a look at these jurors before we came on. 01:08.204 --> 01:18.728 [SPEAKER_03]: And out of the five, Sarah has more professionals in her boot episode than the other four do combined in theirs. 01:19.748 --> 01:23.592 [SPEAKER_03]: And like you said, they just start to become more under-edited. 01:24.173 --> 01:26.375 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that the narrative starts to shift. 01:26.415 --> 01:31.360 [SPEAKER_03]: Like we start to see a lot more kind of obvious winner edits here. 01:31.480 --> 01:34.643 [SPEAKER_03]: In my opinion, the winners become obvious. 01:34.683 --> 01:38.787 [SPEAKER_03]: I think in the games, we see more landslide votes at the end. 01:39.288 --> 01:41.550 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we're entering like the Twitter age, 01:43.552 --> 01:50.534 [SPEAKER_03]: the game is starting to become a little bit more meta and and you can see that kind of reflected here a little bit. 01:51.034 --> 01:54.855 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's the real big thing, because if we look at these boats, what's for these seasons, right? 01:54.915 --> 01:55.695 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a perfect game. 01:55.715 --> 02:02.117 [SPEAKER_02]: We have a 710-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-818-8 02:02.913 --> 02:13.679 [SPEAKER_02]: a five to one, but I'm throw it an asterisk up on that one that we'll get to when we get to Sam and then a six one one that we get and we're on the part right like these are lands slides. 02:13.739 --> 02:23.484 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think we see less of an influence of that first-year in these seasons because things were a little more unanimous than they had been in previous seasons. 02:25.294 --> 02:27.235 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so let's dive right into it. 02:27.315 --> 02:40.819 [SPEAKER_01]: We are talking Michael Snow as our first sure, which I'm glad we get to talk and give Michael Snow a little bit more love than he survivor gave him because I did like him. 02:40.899 --> 02:51.862 [SPEAKER_01]: I liked him and Matt together on Karimo and I was rooting for him, but then Karin kind of got a hold of him and I wasn't liking him as much just because she kind of got a hold of him. 02:53.482 --> 03:06.105 [SPEAKER_01]: But I thought I think he's one of the the most game savvy fans that were on that tribe and really did want to play the game. 03:06.125 --> 03:16.367 [SPEAKER_01]: And while he doesn't do much that we see, I feel like he did have a decent amount of control over with the fans, 03:17.387 --> 03:22.976 [SPEAKER_01]: Once the swap happened, he swapped out numbered, and it just crumbled from there. 03:23.036 --> 03:32.149 [SPEAKER_01]: He was able to hang on until the merge, but his allies kept going one by one by one as those next votes came out. 03:34.451 --> 03:45.257 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, no, I think that this is where this is where bland really comes in, like if there ever was one, which is unfortunate because I do think that he is a great player. 03:45.377 --> 03:50.700 [SPEAKER_03]: And I wish that we got to see a lot more of them, but the game didn't shake out that way. 03:50.980 --> 03:59.665 [SPEAKER_03]: He's not even really taken out because he is, like, they see him as a good player, like I'm sure they did, but he's really taken out here as like the safe vote. 04:00.205 --> 04:06.609 [SPEAKER_03]: He's like the fourth option out of this group, and he's taken out because of the three Amigos. 04:06.949 --> 04:10.851 [SPEAKER_03]: And of course, what we see in the next travel castle, they had good reason to be afraid of the three Amigos. 04:10.971 --> 04:15.834 [SPEAKER_03]: But Michael, he just kind of goes out in like a bit of a whimper. 04:15.874 --> 04:18.875 [SPEAKER_03]: He has no confessionals in his boot episode. 04:19.155 --> 04:21.417 [SPEAKER_03]: He has no real storyline going on. 04:22.257 --> 04:24.598 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's hard to gauge what impact he had here. 04:25.599 --> 04:27.140 [SPEAKER_03]: What influence he had on the jury. 04:28.344 --> 04:56.880 [SPEAKER_02]: The awkward thing about Michael's positioning in Caramelan is that he's not in the manaliance of like self-harass that's really running everything from the returning side and he isn't really in the manaliance of the opposition to self-harass either in the three amigos and because of that he's kind of left in no man's land in this narrative space that doesn't really position him to say anything or contribute anything to the season and because of that. 04:58.607 --> 05:19.184 [SPEAKER_02]: there's not really a point of like forcing his opinion on things, despite the fact that he is game savvy, despite the fact that he does understand what's going on in the game, because it just doesn't feel imperative to the narrative that they're trying to sell this season, which is really to just like, draw a coffin and what copper is doing in his perfect game. 05:19.990 --> 05:39.513 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, this would make him not the first year, but I feel like we would see his impact on the game more come final Tribal Council if Corinne was the first year because he is clearly the only one able to speak her language this season and is able to maybe calm her down 05:40.434 --> 05:57.323 [SPEAKER_01]: Once he would arrive at Ponderosa, so he doesn't really have much of an impact on the on the jury because he is the first juror I feel and like what you were saying before John it was it. 05:57.603 --> 06:10.226 [SPEAKER_01]: it's mainly because Andrea freaks out that she is going to be the vote of Malcolm, Eddie, and Reynolds that she needs to change the target just in case there's an idol because she doesn't want to go home. 06:10.586 --> 06:20.768 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's how Michael Gottland got landed on because he is the one that is definitely not having an idol and they're not going to play on him either. 06:20.868 --> 06:22.929 [SPEAKER_01]: He's just kind of there voting with 06:24.689 --> 06:28.372 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that you really hit the nail on the edge of them and you said no man's land. 06:28.412 --> 06:46.207 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I think from here on out, we see a lot of the first jurors in early mood merge boots being in that no man's land where they're just kind of the safe option or they have no real allies rather than being like a big character, a big player, the head of some kind of alliance. 06:47.949 --> 06:55.313 [SPEAKER_03]: So, and we see, like, from here on out, the first juror is the, the merch boot. 06:56.074 --> 06:58.495 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not in this season, but from here on out. 06:58.896 --> 07:00.717 [SPEAKER_03]: So, mostly because it's gonna happen in the season. 07:00.937 --> 07:01.837 [SPEAKER_03]: By it. 07:01.917 --> 07:02.538 [SPEAKER_03]: Very true. 07:02.718 --> 07:04.979 [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard 35, but it's fine. 07:05.099 --> 07:05.380 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 07:05.920 --> 07:06.120 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. 07:06.940 --> 07:07.161 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 07:07.381 --> 07:08.481 [SPEAKER_03]: I guess the new version is out. 07:08.581 --> 07:09.702 [SPEAKER_03]: Just forget what I said. 07:13.886 --> 07:25.440 [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it's a lot smaller characters, smaller players, at least in terms of the edit and so like we've been saying the impact is a little bit harder to judge with the jurors from here on out. 07:26.101 --> 07:27.282 [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a strategic? 07:28.477 --> 07:29.357 [SPEAKER_02]: merit to that thought. 07:29.377 --> 07:32.619 [SPEAKER_02]: Like is there a reason why these people end up being the first juror? 07:32.999 --> 07:54.488 [SPEAKER_02]: Because if you look at this, especially if he's in like caramel and right where someone who is very strongly opinionated as Corinne is allowed out as the last preacher and then you have a little point where okay we're going to put Michael as the first juror because he isn't going to have that much influence on everything but still as a personality that could probably be a very like clawing and soothing 07:55.588 --> 08:05.342 [SPEAKER_02]: And welcoming personality for anyone coming from the jury or coming to the jury and therefore like it kind of gets rid of any of this like hotheadedness that could be happening 08:06.482 --> 08:09.985 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is a possibility and something to to think about. 08:10.005 --> 08:29.963 [SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of players don't necessarily think who should be the first juror and they often think who should not be the first juror and we had a bunch of that discussion in 48 of like who do we want or not want on the jury and I think 08:32.118 --> 08:47.749 [SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately, Michael is a basic first-year, or better, I guess, if we're sticking to the two, because he doesn't do anything bad, but he doesn't really add anything. 08:47.889 --> 08:51.412 [SPEAKER_01]: His question and final travel counsel, he, uh, 08:52.252 --> 09:02.976 [SPEAKER_01]: asks both Don and Cochrane questions and to Don, he says, why are you perceived as more of the villain and why it's Cochrane getting off Scott free? 09:03.516 --> 09:07.658 [SPEAKER_01]: And then Cochrane is all the reactions to Don warranted. 09:07.678 --> 09:08.338 [SPEAKER_01]: And it 09:09.138 --> 09:12.439 [SPEAKER_01]: doesn't necessarily set up Cochrane. 09:12.579 --> 09:16.281 [SPEAKER_01]: It just does in the way both of them answer the question. 09:16.341 --> 09:27.124 [SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, it's trying to give Dawn some credit here of like, hey, you kind of are getting crap done here and Cochrane's getting like nothing. 09:27.825 --> 09:28.205 [SPEAKER_01]: Why? 09:28.225 --> 09:31.786 [SPEAKER_01]: And I want because maybe you don't 09:35.147 --> 09:40.929 [SPEAKER_01]: And then Cochrane, do you also think she should not be getting all of this hate? 09:41.489 --> 09:44.130 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, well, if she is, I'm glad. 09:44.150 --> 09:51.673 [SPEAKER_01]: So it kind of just sets Cochrane up for another vote from Michael, just based on their responses. 09:51.753 --> 09:56.975 [SPEAKER_01]: But, inherently, I think he has a pretty even killed question. 09:58.343 --> 10:17.400 [SPEAKER_02]: This question kind of hits a topic that they came very popular during this time's survivor of this era of survivor, which is the idea of what are the preconceived notions people have about gender roles in survivor, because I think that's really what Michael's getting at here is, Dawn is supposed to be coming in as this motherly character, 10:20.970 --> 10:23.712 [SPEAKER_02]: plays a fairly cutthroat game this season, right? 10:23.732 --> 10:30.157 [SPEAKER_02]: It's given the agency to do so because of her partnership with Cochrane throughout it and everything. 10:30.697 --> 10:39.544 [SPEAKER_02]: But especially with the final six in Caramone, that seemed like a very ruthless move for someone who had supposed to be the motherly figure in the season. 10:39.564 --> 10:41.345 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we see that a lot during this era. 10:41.785 --> 10:46.409 [SPEAKER_02]: We get it in Coggyon, right where Cass is talking to her husband 10:49.117 --> 10:56.165 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, if I was a man and people were talking about the moves I was doing, I'd be a bad ass, but because of I'm a woman I'm a bitch, right? 10:56.505 --> 11:02.212 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think this is a very pertinent to this entire era of survival and Michael really does kind of set the tone here. 11:02.232 --> 11:07.598 [SPEAKER_02]: The problem is is he's such a minor character on the season that Nolan even had that conversation about it afterwards. 11:07.979 --> 11:08.159 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 11:08.517 --> 11:12.441 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you look at some of the losing finalists in this block that we're talking about here, Dawn Monica Cole Pepper, Missy, Mama C, so you have four and then cast. 11:12.481 --> 11:25.915 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for the name, it's not for 11:26.255 --> 11:33.660 [SPEAKER_03]: And then the rest of them are losing finalists, and it's like four women, I don't know, fit 45 years old at least, you know. 11:33.680 --> 11:38.763 [SPEAKER_03]: So it is a big point of conversation in this era. 11:38.783 --> 11:45.367 [SPEAKER_03]: So I love this question from Michael, because Dawn really does deserve more credit personally, I think, than she gets. 11:45.988 --> 11:50.631 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's propging somebody up without bringing somebody else down, right? 11:50.651 --> 11:52.112 [SPEAKER_03]: Like he's a hokerin. 11:52.938 --> 11:57.206 [SPEAKER_03]: but his question is setting Dawn up, but it makes Dawn feel good, right? 11:57.266 --> 12:02.235 [SPEAKER_03]: So like I think that is the best kind of juror that you can possibly be. 12:03.377 --> 12:10.243 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think one interesting thing to consider when it comes to caramel and because this is our second fan for its favorite season. 12:10.263 --> 12:13.806 [SPEAKER_02]: So we've already kind of discussed the impact of our first juror on that. 12:14.426 --> 12:24.094 [SPEAKER_02]: So in Micronesia, we talked about how allies that being that first juror was really important for the return he's to kind of like set the tone that a return he should end up winning this season. 12:25.055 --> 12:29.239 [SPEAKER_02]: Is there any merit in sending one of the fans as the first juror this 12:32.601 --> 12:50.537 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really hard to judge on caramel and because nobody's a fan really, but I guess depending on who their fans of like if Michael snow comes out as the biggest cauldron fan and cauldron doesn't have his name written all over his boot. 12:50.637 --> 12:53.619 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just a generic stealth rs vote. 12:54.460 --> 12:56.864 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a great person to have on the jury. 12:56.924 --> 13:08.941 [SPEAKER_01]: I think in a fan's versus favorite season it's either who which favorite might set me up to win or which fan is like my biggest cheerleader that I don't meet with me. 13:12.969 --> 13:15.451 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's go into blood versus water. 13:15.732 --> 13:21.837 [SPEAKER_01]: One of my favorite seasons, but ours is not one of my favorite winners. 13:22.377 --> 13:31.866 [SPEAKER_01]: Two men in just a few short hours to when maybe ours might appear on this next section of winners. 13:33.187 --> 13:33.407 [SPEAKER_01]: But 13:34.308 --> 13:43.093 [SPEAKER_01]: So, Aris and Vedas come back together here at the merge and it's pretty much them stuck together like glue. 13:43.433 --> 13:51.798 [SPEAKER_01]: They think that they're running everything and a lot of what we get in this episode is actually narrated by Vedas. 13:52.378 --> 13:57.981 [SPEAKER_01]: Vedas talks about them a lot and how, you know, everybody loves them. 13:58.001 --> 13:59.282 [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to be good. 14:00.533 --> 14:04.156 [SPEAKER_01]: They'd win against anybody if they were in the final three. 14:05.017 --> 14:12.343 [SPEAKER_01]: And we got to get out Laura M or Sierra and we're golden. 14:12.423 --> 14:23.993 [SPEAKER_01]: So they pretty much just like feel on top of the world as the women made Vita's feel that way and Tyson made RS feel that way. 14:26.332 --> 14:31.574 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this is um, it's an interesting situation because we have the first blood versus water season. 14:31.634 --> 14:36.515 [SPEAKER_03]: So when you're voting one person out, you're really pissing two people off. 14:36.535 --> 14:36.795 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 14:36.875 --> 14:39.256 [SPEAKER_03]: So so you have those implications. 14:39.276 --> 14:41.376 [SPEAKER_03]: We're never really thought of before. 14:41.877 --> 14:49.099 [SPEAKER_03]: And what I was thinking about earlier was that this season is sort of like a version of the redemption island final three where it's like 14:49.879 --> 14:50.981 [SPEAKER_03]: Tyson stay with me here. 14:51.381 --> 14:53.885 [SPEAKER_03]: Tyson is like a dominant winner. 14:53.945 --> 14:57.571 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that we would we would agree and he's kind of the front runner the whole time. 14:58.597 --> 15:03.639 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think Tyson only wins next to the two specific people he's sitting next to. 15:04.279 --> 15:07.861 [SPEAKER_03]: Like Tina would win, Sierra would win, Hayden would win. 15:08.241 --> 15:13.403 [SPEAKER_03]: So you have a jury who is like game savvy enough for obviously R.S. 15:14.143 --> 15:15.404 [SPEAKER_03]: winner, Sierra, big moves. 15:15.904 --> 15:19.285 [SPEAKER_03]: But they're not like thrilled about who they're voting for. 15:19.325 --> 15:22.727 [SPEAKER_03]: Tyson wins unanimously, but this is not a jury that's like pro Tyson. 15:23.267 --> 15:29.413 [SPEAKER_03]: So it was kind of an anti, well, it's not you that it was like, you give, you want to clarify, you get one. 15:29.633 --> 15:45.770 [SPEAKER_03]: I say, I say, almost you know, it's, um, so it's sort of like an anti that trio, they were mad at that that trio of the Tyson Monica Jarvis, um, and Tyson was just he just played the the best game I think out of out of the furry, do they thought so? 15:47.351 --> 15:50.900 [SPEAKER_03]: But it's not like a pro Tyson tone that we're setting here, right? 15:50.941 --> 15:55.272 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like you're we're mad at all for you and you just played the best game. 15:56.343 --> 16:06.306 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think what this really came down to in the end and why I think RIS is really the important person to be here as this first year and why it really does the tape at Tyson's own who comes out here. 16:06.886 --> 16:19.190 [SPEAKER_02]: Tyson specifically worked on our history relationship with RIS to this point together to the point that RIS was the first year who then would respect his game the most and advocate for the most. 16:19.610 --> 16:19.870 [SPEAKER_02]: I think 16:21.682 --> 16:39.571 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, is he like completely the best possible for sure, maybe not, but Tyson still knew and was working towards this position the entire game and I think it's something that's not really credit he was working with ours a lot during the pre-marriage, but as soon as they merge he knew exactly who had to be out of the game. 16:40.360 --> 16:41.941 [SPEAKER_02]: in order for his game to succeed. 16:42.601 --> 16:50.944 [SPEAKER_02]: And in doing so, he puts someone on the game who kind of fills a similar archetype role as himself in this season. 16:50.964 --> 16:51.024 [SPEAKER_02]: And 16:53.620 --> 17:00.243 [SPEAKER_02]: He's at least made these social bonds in a way where you see how Jervis is being more abrasive towards ours in the season. 17:00.263 --> 17:04.145 [SPEAKER_02]: You get the bias of the older woman, again, when it comes to Monica. 17:04.845 --> 17:19.773 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think really what this does is this sets up Tyson's wing significantly by putting ours out in this position because he is someone who would actually advocate and be like, show guys clearly Tyson's the one running with a show and these other two are just following along. 17:23.582 --> 17:40.257 [SPEAKER_01]: And this first year and another one also, you know, in this group of seasons, lost by being, they were the last one out of the challenge of the memory blocks. 17:40.917 --> 17:42.938 [SPEAKER_01]: or the the memory challenge. 17:43.458 --> 17:52.663 [SPEAKER_01]: So we also have Josh doing the same thing where it's like they were also one challenge win away from not being the first 18:02.546 --> 18:19.511 [SPEAKER_01]: If RS does win that challenge, I still think we see vitis go because the brothers there are two powerful together and I just don't know if they are similar minded. 18:20.689 --> 18:22.890 [SPEAKER_01]: But are is being the returning player? 18:22.950 --> 18:30.555 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it has that Eliza effect on the jury where I don't think Vetus does the same thing. 18:30.635 --> 18:44.343 [SPEAKER_01]: He might pull for a Jarvis or Abonica or something, you know, if he was the first year because he spent a lot of time with Monica and he had Monica and Tina being like, you know, 18:45.003 --> 18:49.106 [SPEAKER_01]: you could marry my daughter, like it's it's crazy. 18:49.206 --> 18:59.915 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think RS being the one to go here, that's up Tyson, where if Betus goes, it might give Monica a little bit more edge at final tropical council. 19:00.015 --> 19:01.816 [SPEAKER_02]: Is the only person who votes for Monica? 19:02.337 --> 19:02.597 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 19:03.358 --> 19:05.399 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that is important to taking the consideration. 19:05.439 --> 19:08.542 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I actually do think it's so important that RS goes here first. 19:08.582 --> 19:08.702 [SPEAKER_02]: And I 19:13.804 --> 19:17.009 [SPEAKER_02]: the jury wants to see themselves in the winner, right? 19:18.091 --> 19:21.316 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that really hits here with RS and Tyson. 19:21.337 --> 19:25.043 [SPEAKER_02]: I think RS sees Tyson playing the game that RS wanted to play. 19:25.543 --> 19:25.763 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 19:26.564 --> 19:30.128 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's something else to consider is that this is a redemption island season. 19:30.909 --> 19:36.575 [SPEAKER_03]: And so you don't know for sure that the merge Boo is going to be the first juror. 19:37.355 --> 19:45.464 [SPEAKER_03]: It happened to work out that way, but in the other two redemption island seasons that was like a side versus side black and white. 19:46.264 --> 19:51.666 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's like whoever comes back into the game, like our side, we already have the numbers, we'll just vote them out again. 19:52.086 --> 19:54.667 [SPEAKER_03]: Here, the dynamics were a little bit more fluid. 19:55.067 --> 20:05.191 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a bloodless water season, so it's like, I may have to see this person again, right, whoever I put on the jury first, they might come back. 20:05.471 --> 20:09.713 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's just a, it's a different dynamic to consider. 20:10.753 --> 20:16.677 [SPEAKER_03]: Because because you don't know for sure, I want to put this person on as the first juror, but they may not necessarily be the first. 20:16.697 --> 20:17.377 [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you up there? 20:17.397 --> 20:17.457 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 20:18.158 --> 20:19.198 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 20:19.498 --> 20:21.920 [SPEAKER_01]: His final job accounts will speech. 20:22.000 --> 20:26.302 [SPEAKER_01]: He starts off with jurors saying, prove to me that you know game awareness. 20:26.723 --> 20:30.205 [SPEAKER_01]: Why should I vote for Tyson or Monica pick one of them? 20:31.245 --> 20:36.789 [SPEAKER_01]: Then Monica who made the best move between the boys and then Tyson does the same thing. 20:40.238 --> 20:55.807 [SPEAKER_01]: both of them, both journalists and Monica picked Tyson and then Tyson picked Monica and I feel like this question is set up to boost someone. 20:56.248 --> 21:03.792 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think two people are going to pick one person and that last person has to go somewhere else. 21:04.352 --> 21:04.552 [SPEAKER_01]: So 21:05.843 --> 21:24.697 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of setting up both of the people who are looked at as not the best in this tribal council to just give the winner more of a win than I don't know this question just doesn't seem as fair as like Michael's question. 21:25.375 --> 21:26.415 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that a trap question? 21:26.816 --> 21:27.656 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure. 21:28.136 --> 21:38.260 [SPEAKER_01]: He had to answer like each other and ours is like giving the trap the other two and snare themselves and then Tyson's just like Monica? 21:39.160 --> 21:45.903 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the reason why this is a trap is because you as a file travel council, no, 21:47.158 --> 21:55.558 [SPEAKER_02]: sure you as someone as a vitalist and that's the one I'm going to tell you guys I want to want to pay meds right now okay words are hard 21:59.993 --> 22:07.196 [SPEAKER_02]: a finalist wants to both answer honestly and how they think the jury wants them to answer. 22:07.676 --> 22:24.143 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think like it becomes very obvious that RS believes the answer is Tyson, and I think it comes across that like both journalists and Monica also believed that so they're not strategically taking this through of like if both of them say Tyson that's not going to look good on either of them. 22:24.703 --> 22:24.943 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 22:25.987 --> 22:31.928 [SPEAKER_02]: But also, if Monica says, Jervis, probably not looking good on her either because it does show a lack of game awareness, right? 22:32.729 --> 22:34.929 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 22:34.989 --> 22:35.929 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 22:36.589 --> 22:42.531 [SPEAKER_02]: This is a question that really sets up people for failure more than it does success. 22:43.851 --> 22:47.272 [SPEAKER_03]: So then that makes the question, is this bitter or better? 22:48.613 --> 22:48.933 [SPEAKER_01]: better. 22:48.953 --> 22:51.495 [SPEAKER_01]: I think ours is a better juror. 22:51.576 --> 22:58.341 [SPEAKER_01]: He is shocked that he got voted out the first time he played he didn't get voted out. 22:58.441 --> 23:01.584 [SPEAKER_01]: So he was, you know, blindsided with this vote. 23:02.004 --> 23:05.447 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think even though he votes for someone who 23:06.328 --> 23:08.549 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, blindsided him and who he trusted. 23:08.589 --> 23:10.830 [SPEAKER_01]: He was like Tyson is with us 100%. 23:11.311 --> 23:20.896 [SPEAKER_01]: I still think this question is bitter toward just the jury and in snaring other final tribal counselists. 23:21.496 --> 23:22.396 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 23:22.416 --> 23:22.536 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 23:22.576 --> 23:23.297 [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, I agree. 23:23.357 --> 23:27.099 [SPEAKER_03]: He's uh he wasn't clearly wasn't thrilled to vote for any of these 23:33.565 --> 23:39.747 [SPEAKER_03]: for Tyson, and I've watched that rock draw travel council like 20 times from this season. 23:40.127 --> 23:52.670 [SPEAKER_03]: And like you can see the jury's reactions throughout the season, and they're like laughing, they're making faces like they're clearly fed up with that trio that made the final three, but you gotta go for someone. 23:54.962 --> 24:06.813 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, moving on to Sarah Lassina, and I think this will be our biggest segment five more because this episode is the Sarah Lassina show. 24:07.254 --> 24:16.863 [SPEAKER_01]: She has so much pervato throughout the entire episode because she is that lynch pin into different plans. 24:17.243 --> 24:43.357 [SPEAKER_01]: there's the Apari six from the swap tribe and then she has all her old brawn members on the other tribe and they're trying to pull her in to make them a six because it's a five six split coming into the merge and so she is like I'm in the middle I'm doing the middle dance and nobody's gonna catch me because they all need my vote. 24:44.037 --> 24:53.364 [SPEAKER_01]: and incomes chaos cast to you surp her decision once she's made it and make her own decision. 24:53.804 --> 25:10.397 [SPEAKER_01]: And because Sarah is playing this middle ground with everybody and not giving anybody concrete answers that's when the boat flips on her from the other side and it's just like you know what we can get cast to do Sarah no problem because they've had a riff. 25:11.217 --> 25:24.375 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and so that's why Sarah goes in this position, if she had just stuck to one of the other, even if she flipped, if she just stuck to one of them, she wouldn't be the firsturer of the season. 25:26.246 --> 25:28.868 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, this might really be the best survivor episode of all time. 25:29.769 --> 25:32.811 [SPEAKER_03]: This is a, we hope, don't survive or I can tell you that. 25:33.992 --> 25:45.681 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is, yeah, by far the most like tone setting, the most that we get from a first juror, not just in this episode, but Sarah was a very prevalent character throughout the pre-merge as well. 25:46.242 --> 26:03.371 [SPEAKER_03]: a very important player on the Braun tribe, and this is a huge instance of someone voting for someone because they wanted to play the game, that that person, like Sarah clearly wanted to play the Tony game, and she did, you know, kind of successful. 26:03.391 --> 26:05.672 [SPEAKER_03]: It does that later in game 26:07.623 --> 26:11.887 [SPEAKER_03]: This is, and again, not thrilled to be voting for who she's voting for. 26:11.927 --> 26:18.874 [SPEAKER_03]: Like we know that her and Tony definitely had like a rough patch after this season for a little while. 26:19.134 --> 26:25.040 [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, this, this, this is, this episode is just, just chaos like. 26:26.166 --> 26:33.450 [SPEAKER_01]: But it really has a quote, I will decide, I will decide I'm the president right now. 26:34.511 --> 26:36.132 [SPEAKER_02]: This is a really important thing. 26:36.772 --> 26:40.755 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the control that Sarah has is really important. 26:42.356 --> 26:45.318 [SPEAKER_02]: Because of the way that Cogion unfolds, right? 26:45.558 --> 26:46.799 [SPEAKER_02]: Tony, again, wins eight. 26:46.979 --> 26:48.840 [SPEAKER_02]: One, the only bokeh doesn't get his tosses. 26:51.376 --> 27:09.427 [SPEAKER_02]: Sarah does have some control in this, but also if you look at what her question, like what her statement is essentially a final drama counsel that idea that told you said you that sword is bad that you would never go for when she was planning on really planning on voting against him anyways. 27:09.827 --> 27:13.389 [SPEAKER_01]: I was kind of confused at her statement to him too. 27:13.549 --> 27:19.613 [SPEAKER_02]: It's because double standards are just the things that we see at all the time and you didn't actually do it that's why she 27:20.833 --> 27:21.674 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly. 27:22.455 --> 27:35.193 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think when you look at Sarah here and she comes into this position, being completely blinds in a situation where she thinks they're getting one over on them and have just forced two idols out of the game. 27:35.794 --> 27:36.075 [SPEAKER_03]: Right? 27:36.375 --> 27:42.041 [SPEAKER_02]: she is in a spot where she thinks everything is going her way and she is just going to run this game. 27:42.382 --> 27:53.274 [SPEAKER_02]: She doesn't even realize how poor of a social game she has had in this position that has pissed Castle off to the point where Trish is easily able to be like, hey, Cass, who do you want to vote for? 27:53.714 --> 27:56.578 [SPEAKER_02]: And Sarah is the only name coming out of her mouth. 27:57.575 --> 28:22.369 [SPEAKER_02]: And because of that, and because of the appiry of it all, it really makes this interesting because of that deal, the appiry's had going into this merch, the idea that, okay, if anyone flips on this six, like we won't vote for them at the end, obviously they're not given that opportunity because Wu takes to the end, but that really does kind of sit there and make everyone 28:26.011 --> 28:35.529 [SPEAKER_02]: this idea that hey, they see cast make it almost to the end of the game and they're just sitting they're stewing in their anger for this move that got set out of the game. 28:37.357 --> 28:47.722 [SPEAKER_01]: Sarah is also offended that Cass is just the cast's voicing her opinion of like, hey, I'm worried that you might flip because of the bronze on the other side. 28:47.762 --> 28:53.945 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, what I say that to Sarah, probably not because he goes off the handle about that. 28:54.465 --> 29:06.010 [SPEAKER_01]: And then, but Cass makes a good point of like, you haven't really been tested to actually be aligned with us, because you're aligned with us, because you have to be aligned with us. 29:06.350 --> 29:06.590 [SPEAKER_01]: now. 29:07.050 --> 29:24.135 [SPEAKER_01]: So, this is why I'm worried about this situation because all of your old tribe mates are over there, and because Sarah is trying to play both sides dictate the vote because it has to be a big player. 29:24.155 --> 29:26.776 [SPEAKER_01]: This round it can't just be treasured jaffra. 29:27.496 --> 29:28.757 [SPEAKER_01]: She's the one going home. 29:28.897 --> 29:37.125 [SPEAKER_01]: If she just let, if she played the, the middle of the entire time and then just let Trisha Jeffery go home, I think cast doesn't flip. 29:37.745 --> 29:51.317 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's because she's forcing the vote on top of not being solid that they flip that the other side flips the vote to Sarah and we get her kind of 29:56.202 --> 30:06.233 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's really kind of amazing to blow a position like this, you know, like to be in this kind of spot and she really she plays the round like 99%. 30:08.490 --> 30:28.264 [SPEAKER_03]: well right she has five votes on her side like five six to five vote she does get the two idols out of the game like they outplay that alliance right they they get them all all turned around they get the they flush the idols and they vote for Jeffra which none of them saw coming it was just this very large aspect here of the social game 30:29.440 --> 30:35.044 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I forgot how much Sarah and, and cast, like, really bickered leading up to this. 30:35.464 --> 30:36.905 [SPEAKER_03]: So this, this setup was there. 30:37.365 --> 30:42.188 [SPEAKER_03]: And Sarah, at this point, I was who was not as savvy of a player as she becomes later on. 30:42.248 --> 30:43.869 [SPEAKER_03]: So she does not recognize that. 30:44.590 --> 30:44.690 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, 30:45.848 --> 31:07.617 [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, this is what this is what a missed opportunity because they've really had that other alliance like dead to rights if Sarah was just a little bit cleaner I'm going to push back on this a little bit Kyle I already don't know if you don't remember Sarah was pushing the fact that Tony or LJ had to go here. 31:08.910 --> 31:11.731 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, everyone was saying, okay, we need to get rid of it. 31:11.751 --> 31:12.051 [SPEAKER_02]: The player. 31:12.211 --> 31:12.451 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 31:12.631 --> 31:12.811 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 31:13.071 --> 31:13.251 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 31:13.271 --> 31:16.452 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, and Sarah was like, no, it has to be Tony. 31:16.813 --> 31:21.614 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why caskets alienated because Sarah is so adamant it has to be the way she has. 31:21.894 --> 31:25.375 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, she eventually concedes and ends up voting Jefra. 31:25.815 --> 31:30.237 [SPEAKER_02]: But she pushes someone away by being so adamant that it had to be someone else. 31:31.556 --> 31:37.502 [SPEAKER_03]: This is true, this is true, but I am impressed, I guess, that impresses the wrong work. 31:37.862 --> 31:44.408 [SPEAKER_03]: Surprise, she didn't lose anybody else in this alliance here with that. 31:45.109 --> 31:50.614 [SPEAKER_01]: Interfinal words, she says, like, huh, thought we had a solid set of six. 31:50.674 --> 31:53.397 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why cast flipped, but they got me good. 31:53.837 --> 31:54.297 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, 31:55.078 --> 31:57.780 [SPEAKER_01]: you don't you thought you had a solid six? 31:57.920 --> 32:03.164 [SPEAKER_01]: How are you solid when you were also floating between two alliances? 32:03.784 --> 32:06.226 [SPEAKER_01]: So that can't be solid just off the bat. 32:06.726 --> 32:16.033 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you don't know why cats flipped, which is insane to me, because cats is not one to be shy about voicing her opinion. 32:20.023 --> 32:29.324 [SPEAKER_01]: Sarah had a lot of learning to do from being this first juror and I think honestly being the first juror here helped. 32:30.372 --> 32:37.014 [SPEAKER_01]: moving forward because she knew kind of the ins and outs of what a jury was thinking by being the first one. 32:38.354 --> 32:46.156 [SPEAKER_01]: And it honestly, it helps Tony and insane amount because it's, you know, it can't be two cops at the end. 32:46.756 --> 32:51.937 [SPEAKER_01]: But one cop as the first member of the jury, hell, that sets me up great. 32:53.243 --> 32:54.544 [SPEAKER_03]: let's let's talk this out. 32:55.084 --> 33:03.851 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you think that she made the right choice by sticking with the Apari six or should she have have flipped back to the to the other group to begin with? 33:04.211 --> 33:05.893 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, she's probably either way. 33:05.913 --> 33:09.596 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't think she had a really good spot here in a matter of what it's not a great spot. 33:09.736 --> 33:11.978 [SPEAKER_02]: She's busy on five people, no matter what she does. 33:12.598 --> 33:12.999 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like the 33:19.514 --> 33:26.399 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I think the interesting thing to consider here is Sarah plays around prior to this in the middle, right, because in these. 33:26.439 --> 33:26.699 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 33:26.719 --> 33:27.359 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sorry. 33:27.379 --> 33:32.102 [SPEAKER_02]: She's the only broad member between two three beauties and three bright or sorry. 33:32.703 --> 33:32.883 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 33:33.421 --> 34:00.851 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then she's also in the middle between like cliff and Tony and Tony right her away from cliff so she's she's plays the middle the entire game and she's like not in a set alliance and I think that's why this downfall happens because she isn't picking a side here and she kind of looks like it go to her head because she thinks she's playing so well in the middle because everything's gone her way so far she's kind of essentially using cooperation bias into this point and then when she gets to 34:01.851 --> 34:05.252 [SPEAKER_02]: being on the jury, she knows the entire time. 34:05.392 --> 34:09.713 [SPEAKER_02]: Again, there are a lot of people in the game who still didn't know Tony was a cop, right? 34:09.813 --> 34:23.316 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he told everyone on his swap tribe, but anyone on a parry didn't know until either Tony revealed it at some point or Sarah told them in at Ponderosa. 34:23.696 --> 34:27.317 [SPEAKER_02]: So she even has like this information, a kind of problem Tony's game, 34:28.483 --> 34:34.245 [SPEAKER_02]: without realizing she's probably not telling me this game by just saying that he's lying about being a construction worker. 34:35.305 --> 34:35.525 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 34:37.186 --> 34:41.387 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so Sarah better or better first jerk. 34:45.928 --> 34:53.551 [SPEAKER_02]: It's really tough because we was very much a non entity in this tribal final tribal council and 34:54.716 --> 34:56.837 [SPEAKER_02]: was never going to get Sarah's vote in the first place. 34:57.057 --> 34:58.998 [SPEAKER_02]: I think Tony was always set to get Sarah's vote. 34:59.438 --> 35:02.840 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're the problem is we know she's better. 35:03.300 --> 35:08.542 [SPEAKER_02]: It just happens to be this is a final two instead of a final three, so she can't be better towards the person she wants to be better towards. 35:09.623 --> 35:19.747 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this is what I mean when I said that these votes are like these winners are obvious even within the game or it's like it's Tony gets to the end. 35:20.975 --> 35:43.610 [SPEAKER_03]: like he's just playing like it's you're mad at him but it's like he's he's winning especially if he's against who yeah like you said a non entity if he's again in the end again Spencer it's a different conversation um but well Tony still might win but at least Spencer is an entity right right we was just never never had it had a chance 35:44.555 --> 35:50.538 [SPEAKER_01]: And she, her question to Wu is, Wu, would you vote for me if I played your game? 35:50.878 --> 35:56.521 [SPEAKER_01]: And even though he answers it correctly of yes I would, it still doesn't sound great. 35:56.841 --> 35:58.502 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it just doesn't feel like, 35:59.918 --> 36:00.980 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the right answer. 36:01.120 --> 36:03.704 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think if you said no, I wouldn't. 36:03.844 --> 36:05.607 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also not the right answer. 36:05.647 --> 36:10.974 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're talking about trap questions again, where it's like that one is kind of a trap question. 36:10.994 --> 36:11.796 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I like it. 36:11.936 --> 36:12.577 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like it. 36:12.917 --> 36:14.440 [SPEAKER_02]: This is an instance where we... 36:16.473 --> 36:19.696 [SPEAKER_02]: could not possibly reflect the juror in his own game. 36:20.777 --> 36:21.518 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the problem, right? 36:21.538 --> 36:27.404 [SPEAKER_02]: Like Sarah wanted to play Tony's game, because Tony did, in fact, go on to play the middle after Sarah left the game. 36:27.704 --> 36:27.924 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 36:28.445 --> 36:34.831 [SPEAKER_02]: He flows between both sides, conveniently using each side to get hit the numbers down so these controlling every single vote. 36:35.592 --> 36:39.496 [SPEAKER_02]: And because of that, you have Wu here who 36:41.300 --> 36:47.103 [SPEAKER_02]: genuinely would go for his game because he played the game that he wanted to play. 36:48.224 --> 36:53.026 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just not the game that anyone on the jury respects, and that's the problem with whose game. 36:53.827 --> 36:56.148 [SPEAKER_01]: So better for Tony, but better overall. 37:01.758 --> 37:24.558 [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, going on to San Juan del Sir, we have Josh as our first jur, he's one of the spearheads of one of the alliances and then you have Jeremy as another spearhead of the opposing alliance and then you have John and Jacqueline just floating around here in the middle and you don't really see necessarily 37:25.339 --> 37:33.182 [SPEAKER_01]: why Josh goes out, it's just who are John and Jacqueline voting for and where are the who are they signing with? 37:33.963 --> 37:46.288 [SPEAKER_01]: And it all comes down to the Jacqueline being at camp with the boys and John not being there and the boys of Josh's alliance. 37:47.069 --> 37:47.249 [SPEAKER_01]: And 37:48.349 --> 37:54.130 [SPEAKER_01]: Josh is that kingpin of that alliance, and you know what, that's he's gone. 37:54.730 --> 37:58.311 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's an interesting first juror to have. 37:58.831 --> 38:13.354 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not quite as bad as read would have been because we all know the the ugly stepmother speech of his final tribal council, but it's still not the best. 38:17.130 --> 38:23.913 [SPEAKER_03]: weird because as a first juror because he's a huge character on this season. 38:23.973 --> 38:32.936 [SPEAKER_03]: He is a huge part of the the pre-merge, but he has kind of a quieter boot episode. 38:33.357 --> 38:41.300 [SPEAKER_03]: After a giant merge episode, 11 confessionals in that one and it's like setting up the Josh versus Jeremy 38:46.482 --> 38:54.884 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I wonder if there was any chance that John and Jacqueline would have voted Jeremy out here if he didn't win immunity. 38:55.004 --> 38:57.965 [SPEAKER_03]: And Josh was being such a big presence in this season. 38:57.985 --> 39:03.266 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like he doesn't have a super big impact on this on the season. 39:03.286 --> 39:10.648 [SPEAKER_03]: I think a lot of like the game play and the narrative start after he's gone, like with Natalie's arc and all that. 39:11.510 --> 39:38.905 [SPEAKER_02]: eight, eight depends really because the season is kind of, I find San Juan though Sarah is very much like a tale of two seasons where you have this like Jerry Universe, Josh aspect in the pre-merge that we're all leading towards and then because Jerry me and Josh go home back to back when we get to the merge all of a sudden then it's like okay here's Natalie's story like this built off of one of those two people and and because of that it really 39:41.775 --> 39:46.257 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it really highlights Natalie here because I said we would talk about it when we got here, right? 39:46.597 --> 39:48.378 [SPEAKER_02]: But yes, this is a 5, 2, 1. 39:48.778 --> 39:51.640 [SPEAKER_02]: However, you have to put in a couple of things in the consideration here. 39:51.900 --> 39:52.380 [SPEAKER_00]: Love to one person. 39:52.400 --> 39:56.022 [SPEAKER_02]: First being, there are loved ones on the jury, so they're going to vote for their loved ones. 39:56.462 --> 40:05.907 [SPEAKER_02]: So it was always going to be a 6, 1, 1 at the very least, and the only reason that Natalie doesn't get read's vote is because read doesn't want, may see you get second place planning. 40:08.572 --> 40:08.792 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 40:09.172 --> 40:14.735 [SPEAKER_02]: So when you take that into consideration, again, this is a hard one to evaluate because it is another landslide victory. 40:15.236 --> 40:23.160 [SPEAKER_02]: And what is Josh going to say Natalie essentially is the one who pulled one over on him and like the proxy for Jeremy in this situation, right. 40:23.180 --> 40:34.447 [SPEAKER_02]: We talk about the finalist being caught like reflections of the juror that they're talking to, but in this case, because Josh was so games savvy and was so is such a big survivor fan. 40:35.525 --> 40:47.396 [SPEAKER_02]: because of that, he really does respect game moves, and Natalie, because she's the one who makes it to the end, and what's the one who was boasts his real line with Jeremy. 40:48.822 --> 40:54.007 [SPEAKER_02]: that wasn't even a word is the closest ally of Jeremy who they're at the end. 40:54.387 --> 40:59.873 [SPEAKER_02]: She kind of fits as a proxy for the person who beat Josh and I think that's what's really important here. 41:00.253 --> 41:02.355 [SPEAKER_02]: Is he sitting there advocating for Natalie? 41:02.555 --> 41:06.259 [SPEAKER_02]: Quite frankly, you don't really need to advocate for Natalie in this position, right? 41:06.319 --> 41:12.124 [SPEAKER_02]: Like she did all these flashbacks and tribal counsel to really set up her position to win the game. 41:12.905 --> 41:13.125 [SPEAKER_02]: But 41:14.245 --> 41:16.867 [SPEAKER_02]: He is the type of person who respects that. 41:17.227 --> 41:25.952 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that is really important in this jury, because if you've got someone who is a little more bitter in that position, there's no way they are stumbling for Natalie at the end of the game. 41:26.733 --> 41:38.700 [SPEAKER_01]: And that leads into his final travel council question, where Jacqueline is the reason that you're here due to yourself or stronger players getting you here. 41:39.160 --> 41:42.302 [SPEAKER_01]: And can you give me one move that was solely your move? 41:43.863 --> 42:01.500 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and because he wants to see these big flashy moves and Natalie was giving it to him at tribal council and I mean, she is correct in the the Josh boot being a big move for her that she advocated for. 42:01.940 --> 42:20.787 [SPEAKER_01]: but because she was linked to John and everybody thinking John is doing all the things when really John was not doing all the things, all the females around John that was doing all the things that she is perceived as not doing much and so that 42:23.571 --> 42:32.813 [SPEAKER_01]: idea of gameplay, um, really benefit Natalie's style in having Josh as that first shirt. 42:32.893 --> 42:35.694 [SPEAKER_01]: Now does she know what he's looking for? 42:35.894 --> 42:45.676 [SPEAKER_01]: No, but while, you know, watching Final Tribal Council, it's clear that Josh is looking for those bang wow pop moments. 42:46.893 --> 43:04.037 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, another thing that jurors don't really respect is wishy washyness or like the perceived, because I think a lot of these people perceived Jacqueline as being wishy washy and I'm sure because he was in the middle a lot in the middle of Jeremy's. 43:04.057 --> 43:05.237 [SPEAKER_01]: You were there. 43:05.857 --> 43:07.458 [SPEAKER_01]: They were put in the middle. 43:07.478 --> 43:07.878 [SPEAKER_03]: They were. 43:07.898 --> 43:08.258 [SPEAKER_03]: They were. 43:09.374 --> 43:30.753 [SPEAKER_03]: They were, they did not ask for it, but I think a lot of people saw it that way where it's like, oh, we think like, oh, you voted me out, then you voted Jeremy out and it's like, I guess I'll vote Jeremy out, you know, they're in the middle of it, like the read vote, even though that's unanimous, like there was, there was a lot going on there, it's like, I guess we'll, I guess we'll vote Rita, we're kind of having a spat between us. 43:30.913 --> 43:38.340 [SPEAKER_03]: So I think the jury didn't really like respect the way John and Jacqueline moved throughout the game and Jacqueline since she's in the end. 43:38.400 --> 43:45.826 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's a negative proxy where people didn't really respect John as a player and since Jacqueline is with John. 43:46.647 --> 43:48.788 [SPEAKER_03]: She takes the brunt of that. 43:49.008 --> 43:53.511 [SPEAKER_03]: And then Missy, again, the older woman tax that we have here. 43:53.871 --> 43:57.673 [SPEAKER_03]: I think Missy is a pretty underrated player. 43:57.913 --> 44:01.075 [SPEAKER_03]: But she was never going to get the, I see that face. 44:03.197 --> 44:05.078 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that she's a pretty underrated player. 44:06.358 --> 44:14.283 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think the jury wants to see some like forward thinkingness, some intentionality where it's like, if you're going to flip like, 44:15.268 --> 44:17.469 [SPEAKER_03]: be concrete with it, right? 44:17.509 --> 44:21.149 [SPEAKER_03]: Like Tony had his moves like set up, right? 44:21.649 --> 44:30.752 [SPEAKER_03]: He's a strategic thinker, but I think like Jacqueline and John sometimes didn't come off as like, oh, this is I'm going for John. 44:30.812 --> 44:32.052 [SPEAKER_03]: Then I'm going for Jeremy. 44:32.112 --> 44:39.754 [SPEAKER_03]: Then I'm going for read, like, I don't think that they got that vibe from that duo since that like Josh Reed West. 44:39.774 --> 44:40.834 [SPEAKER_03]: They're all on the jury. 44:45.435 --> 44:45.595 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 44:46.155 --> 44:47.456 [SPEAKER_01]: Small side quest here. 44:48.176 --> 44:59.120 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, in this season, I wonder if it hurt Missy and Jacqueline, that the jurors got to hang out with John and Baylor. 44:59.720 --> 45:07.703 [SPEAKER_01]: If they were, if their votes were impacted being like, man, you know, John is really annoying me right now. 45:07.843 --> 45:09.944 [SPEAKER_01]: So Jacqueline, hell, you didn't 45:13.712 --> 45:17.254 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's more that Natalie benefits from Nadia going home. 45:17.274 --> 45:39.630 [SPEAKER_02]: Yep, the pre-merge, then it is that they are instrumental that they have loved ones on the jury because I think what it comes down to is that allowed Natalie to play a game that no one else really could get into the post-merge because everyone was essentially there like with the exception of Alec and Jeremy, everyone went in with a loved one of his marriage. 45:41.080 --> 45:45.586 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and Tyson also wins without his loved one on the jury. 45:45.666 --> 45:46.847 [SPEAKER_03]: All three of the finalists. 45:46.867 --> 45:49.431 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's why it's really like come out. 45:49.851 --> 45:51.433 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what that's like here. 45:51.473 --> 45:54.377 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but yeah, but here, no, that's a good point. 45:54.417 --> 45:56.479 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like people are sick of John. 45:56.980 --> 45:58.860 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's like, I'm not vote for you. 45:59.081 --> 46:03.342 [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, you're going to say Jaclyn played a great game, but we don't, we don't believe you, right? 46:03.382 --> 46:06.322 [SPEAKER_03]: Baylor, why are we going to listen to you, right? 46:06.482 --> 46:14.344 [SPEAKER_03]: And Natalie and Nadia, wherever they came into this season with a pretty negative reputation, they're good characters, but they were annoying. 46:14.484 --> 46:19.945 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's just put it bluntly on the amazing race, or at least they were portrayed perceived that way. 46:21.066 --> 46:26.287 [SPEAKER_03]: So I think if they were together, yeah, that would make a huge difference if Nadia was on the jury. 46:28.528 --> 46:31.009 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so Josh, better or better? 46:33.170 --> 46:33.410 [SPEAKER_02]: Better? 46:33.891 --> 46:34.131 [SPEAKER_02]: Better. 46:34.291 --> 46:35.071 [SPEAKER_02]: I would say better. 46:36.292 --> 46:40.674 [SPEAKER_02]: His partner definitely better, but he was better in the situation. 46:42.135 --> 46:42.555 [SPEAKER_01]: All right. 46:43.396 --> 46:48.538 [SPEAKER_01]: Moving quickly onto worlds apart, and we'll be done in about five minutes. 46:48.658 --> 46:50.399 [SPEAKER_01]: We have Hayley Ford. 46:57.017 --> 47:19.000 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really have much to say about alea, basically the three nocolors are kind of one side of things and then you got like Rodney on the other side of things with Mike and alea was looked at as a smart, I don't know what they happened, how they happened to go for alea, but it was just chillies. 47:20.339 --> 47:20.739 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 47:21.119 --> 47:22.160 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, this is deaf. 47:22.200 --> 47:25.442 [SPEAKER_03]: There's another no man's land situation, right? 47:25.462 --> 47:27.923 [SPEAKER_03]: No man's land during the Revolutionary War. 47:28.643 --> 47:29.744 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to hear it now. 47:30.251 --> 47:47.520 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I mean, Joe had a immunity, so that really narrows down the options, will had kind of flipped and then gent, you have a between your alien gent, like it's hard to say why exactly Haley goes here, it's hard to say what impact she has, and this won't be the last time we talk about Haley as the first juror. 47:52.983 --> 48:01.250 [SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, I mean, she just kind of goes and this season is dominated with huge personalities. 48:01.471 --> 48:05.594 [SPEAKER_03]: This is a volatile cast, a big personality. 48:05.694 --> 48:08.036 [SPEAKER_03]: So, Hayley gets lost in the shuffle. 48:08.076 --> 48:09.697 [SPEAKER_03]: She gets one confessional here. 48:11.539 --> 48:20.607 [SPEAKER_03]: And to me, this is very similar to the Michael Snow situation, where she's really just like a fourth, third option to go home here. 48:21.494 --> 48:23.115 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she's the safe option here. 48:23.215 --> 48:45.449 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, this is the time where we do start seeing the safe options go in this virtual spot remind me is this the why right after Jen plays her idol to get clearly out so Kelly's so now Jen has looked that as a little bit of threat and a possibility to find idols and Joe in this episode has the clue to the idol, but doesn't 48:46.870 --> 48:49.013 [SPEAKER_01]: And Mike says, Oh, Joe's got the idol. 48:49.033 --> 48:49.994 [SPEAKER_01]: Joe's got the idol. 48:50.314 --> 48:52.557 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's looked at to have the idol. 48:53.118 --> 48:57.123 [SPEAKER_01]: And so Haley is just that other leg of the tripod. 48:58.845 --> 49:03.391 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, if this is also the tribal council where Haley mentions the Murakov and all right. 49:03.917 --> 49:09.321 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, okay, that is the one of three things now that is iconic about Haley Ford. 49:09.421 --> 49:17.687 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't remember that line at all and she had now only has three things to her name in in two seasons. 49:17.787 --> 49:22.351 [SPEAKER_01]: What are the other two metamorphosis and I did not consent. 49:22.371 --> 49:29.095 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, why did it's not game moves. 49:29.175 --> 49:30.657 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just some shit she said. 49:32.388 --> 49:48.406 [SPEAKER_02]: I think what I'm trying to get up with is like this is what Haley Halley approaches the game right Haley I think might be what the like most recent social experiment players 49:51.620 --> 49:53.341 [SPEAKER_03]: That's a funny way to say it, but I want to hear more. 49:53.361 --> 50:18.338 [SPEAKER_02]: I just think like she kind of feels like she's in like this Gabriel cave type of archetype right where it's like this isn't someone who's out here like yeah she has a big more of a strategic mind in the game and understands it's a game but it feels like she's really like leaving into this idea of like what mark stands for and like the hard working of it all and everything I think that is why ultimately she ends up voting for Mike at the end of us too right it just seems like 50:20.117 --> 50:23.538 [SPEAKER_02]: the she's looking for the embodiment. 50:23.938 --> 50:27.139 [SPEAKER_02]: Again, this is a season where they name their merge tribe in Buraka. 50:27.559 --> 50:31.660 [SPEAKER_02]: Guys, that really is indicative of how this season view, right? 50:31.700 --> 50:36.802 [SPEAKER_02]: And it is because despite the fact that we have no color and white colors, it's a very blue color season. 50:37.372 --> 50:47.854 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think like it's really kind of lost in the sauce of it that yes, Darrell see more Haley was a total game changer this season. 50:48.514 --> 51:06.578 [SPEAKER_02]: She tried she tried but I think this is really indicative how this final tribal council is and two things he is kind of important with my getting away here because I think these no colors going at the beginning of this really did set it up especially because you have a representation from each of the tribes at the final tribal 51:07.918 --> 51:10.579 [SPEAKER_02]: And we all know these no colors didn't like will. 51:11.599 --> 51:11.939 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 51:12.539 --> 51:12.920 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 51:13.520 --> 51:24.303 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it is actually very much like this is Haley being this first juror does actually push things up it in my way despite the fact that my pace is everyone off after she leaves. 51:24.903 --> 51:25.863 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 51:26.043 --> 51:28.084 [SPEAKER_03]: And this here's another good comment. 51:28.444 --> 51:31.305 [SPEAKER_03]: Mike knew that he had all the no collar votes. 51:32.666 --> 51:37.289 [SPEAKER_03]: This is another one where like the vote is obvious in real time. 51:37.349 --> 51:47.037 [SPEAKER_03]: If Mike gets to the end, he's winning, but what's interesting is that Mike kind of leads the charge in the early merge here, like he's the one who puts the vote on to get. 51:47.537 --> 51:50.400 [SPEAKER_03]: And he is like the leader of this alliance so he's. 51:50.960 --> 51:52.482 [SPEAKER_03]: Putting them on the jury. 51:52.922 --> 51:58.848 [SPEAKER_03]: But then is spinning it and getting their votes because he's like the underdog he's close with Jen. 51:59.329 --> 52:05.435 [SPEAKER_03]: Why before she goes home, they're also tight with Sharine, the no colors are, and strike with Sharine's closest ally. 52:05.876 --> 52:10.260 [SPEAKER_03]: So my kinda gets the best of all worlds here, no pun intended. 52:12.228 --> 52:19.791 [SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, Haley Ironically with El Mike is like a huge reason of why she got sent home is good for Mike. 52:19.831 --> 52:21.772 [SPEAKER_03]: It's great that she's on on the jury for him. 52:21.892 --> 52:28.895 [SPEAKER_03]: I just don't have a good sense of like what Haley's perception of the game is or how she thinks about the game. 52:28.935 --> 52:32.896 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, John, you were explaining it that you could be entirely right. 52:32.996 --> 52:34.517 [SPEAKER_03]: I have no idea like 52:34.957 --> 52:43.304 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope that I don't have a council question is to Mama C is like, you played, how has the mother role been a disadvantage to you? 52:43.644 --> 52:46.326 [SPEAKER_01]: Mama C answers and then Hayley leaves. 52:47.006 --> 52:49.508 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, full, full circle back to Michael Snow, right? 52:49.548 --> 52:54.612 [SPEAKER_02]: Like again, goes into this idea of this perception of woman in the game of survivor. 52:54.913 --> 52:57.995 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that is really telling of who Hayley is as a person survivor. 52:58.015 --> 52:58.235 [SPEAKER_02]: And why 53:04.740 --> 53:09.664 [SPEAKER_02]: looking at the game from a way of like, okay, I'm a woman. 53:09.744 --> 53:15.488 [SPEAKER_02]: I want you to represent me, but you can't answer my question in a way that makes me want to vote for you. 53:15.768 --> 53:20.912 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm voting for the person who as Daryl Seymour says here, Mike has a social gig with the toe collars. 53:20.932 --> 53:22.353 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot better than mom is these. 53:22.774 --> 53:25.996 [SPEAKER_02]: And we talked about that with like Tyson and RS earlier today too, right? 53:26.016 --> 53:31.280 [SPEAKER_02]: Like sometimes this first year is so important just by being like the person who is least 53:34.528 --> 53:45.550 [SPEAKER_01]: And also, they tried to do a girl's thing here to vote out Dan, and she says, like, you go miss, uh, misogynistic on the girls, the girls are going to take you out. 53:46.210 --> 53:49.471 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and Haley is liking the girl thing. 53:49.511 --> 53:52.491 [SPEAKER_01]: That was her only confessional of like, yeah, let's do the girls. 53:53.231 --> 53:57.852 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but that was our only like, maybe something else could happen. 53:57.872 --> 53:58.992 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not Haley. 54:05.629 --> 54:07.611 [SPEAKER_02]: You have to talk about her again, actually, it's fine. 54:08.051 --> 54:20.681 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, but wait, something we haven't really talked about in these last few seasons because one, it didn't matter or two, it didn't have anything. 54:21.121 --> 54:26.945 [SPEAKER_01]: Kelly Remington would have been the, she was the merge boot, and if she was the first 54:33.070 --> 54:44.495 [SPEAKER_01]: so far in with Mike Mike through a challenge to Kelly and it would have been just even more of a of a dominant Mike jury. 54:46.576 --> 54:49.297 [SPEAKER_03]: Kelly Romington wins this game as she does not get out of that there. 54:49.857 --> 54:50.177 [SPEAKER_03]: It's true. 54:51.778 --> 54:54.819 [SPEAKER_02]: She was in the best position in the game by bar. 54:54.879 --> 54:59.121 [SPEAKER_02]: Had the best relationships in the game like it's idle though and doesn't get to do that and I 55:01.688 --> 55:04.889 [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't, I don't think, calorie being there changes this vote at all. 55:05.270 --> 55:12.352 [SPEAKER_02]: If anything, maybe it ends up sweating things so that like we don't see those that see our vote for Carolin and that. 55:12.372 --> 55:13.013 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly. 55:13.053 --> 55:14.453 [SPEAKER_02]: Rod may vote for Will. 55:15.334 --> 55:22.357 [SPEAKER_02]: I doubt it, because those are pretty bitter votes from those two, but maybe might just win some more. 55:23.117 --> 55:25.078 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I can take any other, 55:26.642 --> 55:28.803 [SPEAKER_01]: be word other than bland for Haley. 55:29.483 --> 55:32.304 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't think she's better. 55:32.885 --> 55:34.745 [SPEAKER_01]: Also don't think she's better either. 55:34.765 --> 55:36.946 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if she's up again, change her. 55:36.966 --> 55:38.887 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a game changer. 55:38.967 --> 55:41.528 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 55:41.828 --> 55:45.710 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, that's, that's been our podcast here, everyone. 55:45.750 --> 55:48.191 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for grinding through this. 55:48.631 --> 55:53.533 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, we'll be back next week with some more fun people. 55:55.738 --> 56:14.461 [SPEAKER_01]: And Hayley Ford will be the one where we will just have this same conversation again, okay, so we will see you next week, but before we do that John, there's some things happening there are some things happening in fact, did you turn on to this very channel and about an hour and a half. 56:15.062 --> 56:20.248 [SPEAKER_02]: uh you can listen to the second episode of the winner rankings should be interesting. 56:20.268 --> 56:27.235 [SPEAKER_02]: There was a lot of discussion about that last batch a lot of people saying I don't know how we can, but a lot of people were saying that we had some hot takes in there. 56:27.655 --> 56:28.376 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. 56:28.596 --> 56:30.759 [SPEAKER_02]: There are solidity in the bottom 10. 56:30.819 --> 56:31.299 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. 56:31.319 --> 56:32.340 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of been higher. 56:32.681 --> 56:36.225 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yes, but you you took you maybe to get to the time to once in a while. 56:37.925 --> 56:43.707 [SPEAKER_02]: But anyways, yes, Phil Will and Blake will be here discussing that in an hour and a half. 56:43.947 --> 56:46.908 [SPEAKER_02]: So 1030 Eastern and 730 Pacific tomorrow. 56:47.008 --> 56:52.670 [SPEAKER_02]: Phil will be joined once again by once upon a time to talk about the winning games of these seasons. 56:52.710 --> 56:55.671 [SPEAKER_02]: We've just discussed here, Caramel and through World's Apart. 56:56.431 --> 57:16.750 [SPEAKER_02]: Tech with is to win her China rewatch every once in a while, so make sure you subtract the channel and click that bell for notifications, so you know when that goes live and Speaking of Game changer, Haley Ford We're just about moving on to game changers with every season matters, so maybe it's a good time to really brush up on her before and actually 57:17.711 --> 57:18.831 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's do it. 57:19.071 --> 57:21.612 [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone needs a little bit more Haley Ford in their life. 57:22.072 --> 57:28.775 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so we encourage you, highly to watch both Haley Ford seasons. 57:29.595 --> 57:35.297 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then yeah, so we'll see you guys next Wednesday with another episode of Better or Better. 57:35.457 --> 57:36.097 [SPEAKER_01]: Goodbye everyone.