[SPEAKER_00]: This is Jockel podcast number 548 with Echo Charles and may Jockel win a good evening.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got good evening.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was reading through some material.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been looking trying to get a sense of the leadership during the cold war and because everything was just so focused on nuclear war they were so concerned about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I came upon some articles from the U.S. Army Commander General Staff College in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas Day of Publication, or they had a publication called Military Review.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is from November of 1960.
[SPEAKER_00]: and so it's obviously it's post-World War II.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's post Korea but clearly prior to Vietnam and this is a time when everyone thought the next war was gonna be a big nuclear war.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's interesting you can see some of that focus in there but but
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a couple articles that I thought were worth going into reviewing a little bit just because they have lessons that apply to any situation, whether it's conventional war, nuclear war, or non-combat scenarios, where you interact with people, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: People, you work with people, you live with people that you have to lead.
[SPEAKER_00]: So good information here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the military review.
[SPEAKER_00]: U.S. RB command and general staff college for 11 worth Kansas again November 1960.
[SPEAKER_00]: And some of the articles interestingly, the first article is called Gorilla Warfare in Ukraine.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the that's the start off right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It had lurps and nuclear target acquisition.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's that's that's Rangers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Early
[SPEAKER_00]: And nuclear target acquisition there's the next articles the Peter'sburg crater and nuclear weapons I mean this thing is just they're they're really concerned about it The arm might have read China the mutual weapons development program There's just a lot of these things, but then it gets into some
[SPEAKER_00]: Some things that I found a little bit more interesting, there's an article called The View from the Bottom, and we're going to start with that one, and there's another one called The Moral of the Soldier in War.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, The View from the Bottom, written by someone named Elaihu Rose, who was a Air Force reservist, Second Lieutenant, and he's also ended up being a big real estate magnet in New York.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is, I think, this is prior to him doing all that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this first article is called view from the bottom, and that perspective being like, what does it look like?
[SPEAKER_00]: What does it look like for the troops?
[SPEAKER_00]: It says here, in accomplishing his mission, the commander avails himself of all the apparatus of war that modern armies possess, but his arsenal also contains one weapon which is unique, which none may bring into being but himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: This weapon is morale, not the morale inspired by Ma's apple pie or some vague call to pay treatism, but rather that rear-rare spiritual bond between the commander and those it is his privilege to command.
[SPEAKER_00]: I never thought too much about the uniqueness that each individual leader brings to the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: No two leaders are alike.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, at least they're not exactly alike.
[SPEAKER_00]: They might be similar, but they're not alike.
[SPEAKER_00]: Certainly commanders have been successful without this very personal approach and in the moment of truth, it is, of course, strategic and tactical ability for which there is no substitute.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of surprising.
[SPEAKER_00]: You said that.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing more important than strategic and tactical ability.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'll tell you, I don't know, you know, the people with the stronger morale, sometimes achieved victory regardless.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in every battle no matter how well planned they remain the variable and unknown quantities, those times when men are called upon to produce that extra effort which escapes definition.
[SPEAKER_00]: If the commander is to practice his art on the highest level, he must call forth this effort by the very projection of himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know this goes into, we did a podcast a while back, not too long ago, but we talked about T.E.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lawrence, Lawrence of Arabia, and he had this thing that he said that you could learn nine tenths of what you need to know to be a combat leader.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could learn in the books and in the schools and in the field training, but there was what he called the irrational tenth.
[SPEAKER_00]: This other extra little bit that you can't really teach someone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I think you can teach some of it, but that's what this is talking about in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_00]: The art at the highest level, you have to bring yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to bring yourself changes in warfare, the years, and he goes into an example.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to read the whole example.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about shared in the Shannon-Dohle campaign.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh but he says changes in warfare.
[SPEAKER_00]: The years following the Civil War saw changes in technique and doctrine that altered the very fabric of warfare as it has had been practiced up to that time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Image of the commander like theatrical audiences.
[SPEAKER_00]: The military formation must be approached by way of the mass personality.
[SPEAKER_00]: The commander's success in establishing rapport will thus depend upon the image of himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is able to create in the large number rather than on the personal impression he conveys to the comparative few.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no formula for image.
[SPEAKER_00]: It varies as people themselves vary.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some commanders, for example, have used crude language and establishing the personality of a regular guy while others have attempted the same thing with a startling lack of success.
[SPEAKER_00]: because that image goes out to everyone, then like a personal impression you put on to a few people.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an interesting take at the way you appear to the troops is more important than the way you appear to just a few of your subordinate direct subordinate leaders.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the interesting thing about this is, and you're going to hear this, you hear this and you go, oh, so you're supposed to like fake an image and like, what are you doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of seems kind of fake.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as he goes into it, and he kind of mentions it here, you can try and portray an image.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if it's not real and the term that they use nowadays in the world is authentic, if you try and put out an inauthentic image, a quote unquote image of yourself,
[SPEAKER_00]: And order of the day or a spirited phrase spoken on the eve of battle might carry with it all the grandeur of Nelson's signal at Trafalgar, but often the same words from a different mouth fall flat.
[SPEAKER_00]: The lone word nuts was spoken by General McCall.
[SPEAKER_00]: McCall if at Bastone has entered the history books, not because of its simplicity or significance, magnificent, but because whatever qualities it had, it apparently had them just at the right time and from the right person.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's when the German said, hey, we got you surrounded.
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you like to surrender?
[SPEAKER_00]: You can surrender at this time.
[SPEAKER_00]: They let
[SPEAKER_00]: Considering the many ways by which this emotional relationship can be established, the one common denominator is the concept of recognition.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is being able to see you.
[SPEAKER_00]: During World War II, Field Marshal Sir William Slim once addressed some troops saying, I was in the ranks myself once, and in those days I was always being shoved around by people I never saw and about who sanity I had the greatest doubts.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I want you to know what I look like, not because I think any oil painting,
[SPEAKER_00]: But because I think you ought to know the bloke issuing the orders, then you'll know who to blame for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're coming right out and telling the boys like, hey, I didn't even get to see the leaders when I was in World War I. I'm gonna let you see me, you know who I am.
[SPEAKER_00]: Today, such a thought hardly seems unusual, but it represents a remarkable step forward since the first World War.
[SPEAKER_00]: When senior officers were not always so accessible, field marshal Montgomery states in his memoirs that during his entire service as a junior officer on the Western Front, he never once saw the British Army Commanders General French or Hague.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's no, it doesn't bother off.
[SPEAKER_00]: That would piss a brother off right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a legit people come and visit me on deployment, and it was like, okay, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: We had general brown, the four-star so-com commander fly into Ramadi, you see what up?
[SPEAKER_00]: The Commodore came out.
[SPEAKER_00]: We had a, the, the, the siege sort of commander came down.
[SPEAKER_01]: People, people wanted to make sure they knew what was happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I can't imagine just going through World WW1 people getting slaughtered and you never see the leaders at the front.
[SPEAKER_00]: How about those guys know what's going on?
[SPEAKER_00]: How do they appreciate the suffering?
[SPEAKER_00]: How do they appreciate the tactics that are being used and not being effective?
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't, you got to get out there and it's not just so that you can understand better what's happening, but it's so the troops can see you and know you.
[SPEAKER_00]: different time.
[SPEAKER_00]: People are a lot more accepting of orders in that day than we are now.
[SPEAKER_00]: by World War II the rule that a commander should be known by his man had become axiom.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Santa's factory state of morale existing on the eve of Normandy invasion was undoubtedly due in large measure to the continual troop inspections carried out by all the senior commanders.
[SPEAKER_00]: These clearly indicated to the troops the interest and concern of their leaders and proved well worth the enormous expenditure of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: A recently, so World War II, now you have, you know, good interaction with the troops, the leaders are down there, they're inspecting, they're asking questions, they're finding out, and the troops fill up, as opposed to just, hey, go over the top and go get mode down by machine gun.
[SPEAKER_00]: A recently published history of major general Frank D. Marauders relates a minor incident which nevertheless emphasizes this aspect of troop psychology.
[SPEAKER_00]: A body of troops approached general still-wells headquarters after an arduous 140-mile march, anticipating the honor of exchanging salutes with their theater commander.
[SPEAKER_00]: Still, Wells' failure to appear was doubtless and oversight, but it was noted by the troops.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in the words of one of them, the chance for an inexpensive gesture that would have repaid him in the days to come.
[SPEAKER_00]: So these guys marked 140 miles, and, and general still well, but, and they, you know, they even say, hey, let's probably buy access to some oversight, like someone didn't tell them what the guys are here, whatever, and that hurts.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing is more damaging to the morale of combat troops than the impression that a critical event in their lives is regarded within difference by the very leaders responsible for their safety.
[SPEAKER_00]: Careful of that, and it's a bit, you know, the thing is that you have to remember when you're in a leadership position, it doesn't seem like a big deal to you, but it's a big deal to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what for you is, oh, you know, the troops, I don't need to go out there, they don't think that much of me.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, whether you think that or not, you need to get out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to go gripping grin with the troops.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is an interesting section, distinguishing trademarks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Many commanders have found that distinguishing trademarks have aided in establishing both recognition and rapport.
[SPEAKER_00]: The custom probably is as old as Warford's self.
[SPEAKER_00]: a sprig of broom, worn in the helmet of Jeffery of Anju, gave the name plant to Janae, to an entire line of English kings.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a sprig of bloom is like a little yellowish flower and this guy wore it in his helmet.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they called that whole line of English kings
[SPEAKER_00]: So one guy's kind of personal trademark named a whole lineage of kings.
[SPEAKER_00]: In World War II, the site of General Patton's ivory-handled revolver became so well-known that he is reputed to have told a soldier if I were seen without this gun known would know me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I might as well just go without my pants.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the use of the trademark is not without its pitfalls.
[SPEAKER_00]: It must be judicious or it will be degraded into a caricature.
[SPEAKER_00]: Field Marshal Montgomery's use of a double-badged tanker's beret is a classic example of the more successful military signature.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Monty.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wore the tanker's beret.
[SPEAKER_00]: His memoirs make clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: the deliberation with which he set out to find an appropriate symbol.
[SPEAKER_00]: First, using an Australian hat, then changing to a tank per A, and later adding an extra cap device as a final distinctive touch.
[SPEAKER_00]: In his own words, he set out to be not only a master,
[SPEAKER_00]: But a mascot, and that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So every when you picture Montgomery, you picture him in that parade.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess he was wearing this Australian hat, you know, with the big rim on it, or brim on it, and it would kept blowing off in the desert.
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the tankers gave him a parade, said, you know, you wear this, it won't fall off, it won't get blown off.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so he started wearing that, and then he put two insignias on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: One was the insignia of being a general, the other one is the insignia of the tank, symbol.
[SPEAKER_00]: which is illegal.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's against the rules.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not allowed to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not allowed to have this against military regulations, but he's the freaking general, so he did it at a game a little, you know, a little bit of extra.
[SPEAKER_00]: So people do that sometimes.
[SPEAKER_00]: They do a little something.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember the Hulk's mustache?
[SPEAKER_00]: the Hulk's.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't written it in my stash.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was kind of it was it was maybe not a hundred percent within regulations.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we know, we look, when he came on here and he had the massive handlebar mustache, you know, which is the, again, that's Hulk all day.
[SPEAKER_00]: But even when I met him, he had a mustache that was, you know, like I said.
[SPEAKER_00]: Barely with in regulations if not just straight up not with in regulations, but the Hulk Yeah, he's the Admiral.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you want to say like hey you're not within regs?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you're the Admiral.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so is it kind of like that to the degree where
[SPEAKER_01]: Certain exceptions can be made depending on the person and they're we'll say I don't know reputation or performance or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would say that is accurate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah You know, I had probably the closest.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what the closest thing I would have had to this but one thing I did I used to brief in in my first appointment.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did a little bit my second appointment Was I had a baseball bat so
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever heard of MWR morale, welfare, and recreation?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a portion in the military, they have in the Navy, in the Marine Corps, they have MWR.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there are the people that set up baseball games and set up trips to go to Disneyland and like to do all this kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for whatever reasons, in Baghdad,
[SPEAKER_00]: MWR had sent, like, baseball bats and gloves, and we weren't playing baseball anyway, there's nowhere to play baseball.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we had this, so we had these bats.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the first point is this is 2003, like there wasn't much established infrastructure in Iraq at the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we would brief, we had an old kind of compound camp, Jenny Posey and, you know, there's some old buildings on there and where we ate our food in this crappy old building is also where we'd be briefed the troops and since we ate food in there there was some MWR stuff in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: including these baseball bats.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I didn't have a laser pointer, you know, back in the day.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just briefed with a baseball bat.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we eventually we had like the briefing bat.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'd be standing there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a good way to get in the character too.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the baseball bat now, hey, everyone knows like, all right, Jockel's brief and some shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like, this is what we're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the briefing bat, and then when we got into task in the bruiser, I definitely used a bat during
[SPEAKER_00]: During work up when we got on deployment, I used it last but briefing bat.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, there's something, but it's a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some videos in me with the briefing bat too, by the way, pretty legit.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, it's kind of this little trademark.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I didn't carry it out in the field.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but then again, I also wasn't a field partial.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I didn't need to be everyone knew me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wasn't that big of a deal?
[SPEAKER_01]: Also to with those types of things sometimes there's some actual like function in it so like you know Like when you had the briefing that Mm-hmm and you use word character character.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's like almost even to a functional degree where it kind of helps you like
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you call like embody the the role that you're They're in yeah, she'm saying like you know, I told you before we start recording I was watching a few good men the other day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, it be exact But he had a bat Tom Cruise right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh Cafe or whatever his name is he had a bat, but he's like where's my bat?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think better with my bat So when he's doing so he had like a bat, you know, that was like his thing
[SPEAKER_01]: where that's I've seen that movie many times that always struck me as true where if it's like when you have something yet like you ever and this is kind of like a mean nowadays but it's absolutely true when you're on the phone you know back in the day when you're talking on the phone and you're like doing the most random like things but if you have something in your hand you're doing you know like I would do it all out due to on the wall or something like this you didn't don't really realize you're doing it until you're done
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you have something in your hand, it like helps you, I don't know, with a flow of like your role for some reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, there's there's a whole like theory behind that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they give kids little things to fidget with like fidget fidget fidget fidget spinners It's better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but because they think better when they're supposedly doing like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I'd say there's something to it But you know, get get you know, I use that term kind of as a joke like getting into character right kind of a joke But
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also it became a pattern of like, oh, everyone's like, okay, Joc was getting ready to breathe.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's he's picking up the bat.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's time to time like he's not playing around.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're doing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just pray it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, what do you call?
[SPEAKER_01]: It primes the environment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I had time like that, too, with uh,
[SPEAKER_00]: I had like a stick or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: I used to use when I was in training cell, a team one or something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Had something because when I used what I used that statement, get into character, it wasn't the first time I used it before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can't remember what it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll think about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Get into character.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kering on here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he wanted to be a, not just a master but a mascot, which is a weird way of saying it, but at the same time it makes sense, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we're gonna rally behind the mascot.
[SPEAKER_00]: We always think of mascots in America as being whatever these big fluffy animals and whatnot, but if you have a bad ass mascot, remember that the San Diego Aztecs had like the Aztec dude and how it just get wild, yeah, that's not a fluffy mascot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like a badass mascot, so this is the same type of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Carrying on, although the essence of morale is emotion, general Montgomery analyzed it intellectually.
[SPEAKER_00]: First recognizing the need, then fulfilling it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That his personality is also particularly well suited to this approach in no way to tracks from the basic soundness of his attitude.
[SPEAKER_00]: and the restoration of Moral to the shattered 8th Army on the eve of the battles of Alamhafa and Alameen will rank as one of the finest military achievements.
[SPEAKER_00]: But however, you're going to go into this, there's some pitfalls.
[SPEAKER_00]: Any discussion of this aspect of common personality must inevitably come to general George S. Patent Jr.
[SPEAKER_00]: Upon his death, General Patton was elevated to that semi-legendary status, which makes any objective evaluation a risky undertaking.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is 1960, this is only like 15 years after Patton died, and he's saying, as funny, he says, semi-legendary status, no full-legendary status.
[SPEAKER_00]: His admirers claim that his meticulous and somewhat theatrical military dress helped achieve a great rapport with his men.
[SPEAKER_00]: His detractors ridicule it as pointless, affectation, and claim less effective results.
[SPEAKER_00]: As in most such cases, the truth probably lies somewhere in between.
[SPEAKER_00]: When questioned about, when questioned by a friend about his fancy regalia, patent replied, I want the men of the third army to know where I am and that I risk the same dangers they do.
[SPEAKER_00]: A little fancy dress is added to help maintain the leadership and fighting spirit I desire.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see there's a little bit of when you're dressed a little bit different, you can stand out more, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we covered in the Korean War, the guy Lee that put a freaking orange marker panel on himself, so his guys would know where he was.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... navy cross by the way but that makes sense that being said the ultimate success of his program might be open to close for questioning general Omar and Bradley for one has written that certain chapters of patents career were failures in this respect general Bradley points out that in africa at least patent quote failed to grasp the
[SPEAKER_00]: of his command.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a different take, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an understandable take.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can totally understand that take.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was this great story.
[SPEAKER_00]: My buddy at Team 2.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't there for this, but they were at the range.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a peacetime team's peacetime army and they're out of range with a seal platoon.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I think it was like seal snipers and they're out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's drift dressed different jeans, hunting, camo, mismatch, camo, civilian clothes,
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're out there shooting different ranges, you know, different weapon systems, and this guy, that army dude pulls up, like an army commander pulls up, and he said he was explaining that that guy had camouflage paint on, because they were in some kind of an exercise, but it was like perfectly just like on the front of his face.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like just like the front of his face had candy paint on not as it gets knack his totally exposed hands were exposed So it's the mirror like halo when we're in the field We wear camouflage paint go ahead and put the song even though he probably wasn't in the field at all and then the funny part was the guy comes up and he said Hey, what what what what unit is this?
[SPEAKER_00]: And as my buddies about to answer this, I think he was a colonel, or at least a lieutenant colonel.
[SPEAKER_00]: I see about to say, oh, you know, we're the seal team.
[SPEAKER_00]: And right as he gets done saying that, one of the guys on the fiery line just out, like, go for it 50 yards and all the weapons, like, flexed, like, scoping on this freaking go for an unleash hell on this go for a kill it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he said that the army colonel was just like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, Roger that carry on and it's like left, but I'll never that image of a guy with just Cammy paint, you know, just on on his face.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like I did the, uh, but I've talked about the guys from blackwater coming through my camp camp, Jenny Posey once again, you know, now we're kind of like, you know, battle hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we've been in Iraq for a few months or we're just big combat effects, but we were, you know, we done a bunch of operations at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm being a little bit sarcastic, but we had done a lot of operations.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've been there for a few months and, you know, we were used to what we were doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And these guys from Blackwater came up to kind of check in with a couple of more exeels, et cetera, and you're looking at their gear, and you're just like thinking, oh, these guys don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: These guys don't really know what they're doing right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: The good here is all brand new.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's placed in weird positions.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't really make 100% a sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: How you going to draw your pistol when it's on your leg when you're in a vehicle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like all these little things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you think, well, this is probably not good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, any time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's times where.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know like you're all just you've been in the field for a while and then you see some poke or rump that's just all squared away and occasionally they give people shit you know hey you know you're you know forms like a dirty it's like we're not we're not responding
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can see what they're saying here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see, you know, patterns run around with his eye-rehandled pistols, and he's got his pantaloon pants on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bro, and I'm out here in the bush in the field.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's two ways to take that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, if you're out of two, just like Patton's cool, you're probably like, hell yeah, there is.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're out of two, it's Patton's bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're probably like, oh, what a freak and piece of shit out here.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not in the bush, he's not in the shit like we are.
[SPEAKER_00]: depending on what colored lens you're looking at them through.
[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, if you're winning and things are going well, probably looking at them through a good lens.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're losing, you're probably looking at them through a bad lens.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, carrying on this simple observation illustrates the pitfalls of this device.
[SPEAKER_00]: troops like to see a smartly turned out uniform, but it contrasts with the filth of combat fatigues and confidence might easily turn to resentment when such a comparison is at hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: The timeless psychology of the combat soldier was described by Shakespeare 300 years ago in this little Shakespeare activity.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I remember when the fight was done, when I was dry with rage and extreme toil, breathless and faint, leaning upon my sword, came there a certain Lord, neat and trimily dressed, fresh as a bridegroom, for he made me mad to see him shine so brisk and smell so sweet and
[SPEAKER_00]: God save the mark.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's for that's from Henry the fourth.
[SPEAKER_00]: He also says he talked there's another part of this word if that little silica query where he says he's he talks sounded like a gentle woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a fine line bro.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a fine line.
[SPEAKER_00]: address and behave your on the other hand, commanders who have used the one of the boys approach are by no means a new phenomenon.
[SPEAKER_00]: General Grant, for example, rarely wore anything more formal than a private's blouse.
[SPEAKER_00]: And old, rough and ready, Zachary Taylor carried the process to its ultimate conclusion by omitting military uniform entirely.
[SPEAKER_00]: More recently, General Stillwell and British General Ord Wingate were both of this school.
[SPEAKER_00]: The two men, so similar to many respects, reflected their distaste for all military formality by casually adapted.
[SPEAKER_00]: of, by casual adaptation of the prescribed uniform.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, well, carefully cultivated the appearance of, quote, the plain old soldier, and in any field, usually avoided displaying any insignia of rank.
[SPEAKER_00]: In time, his battered old campaign hat became to be well-known as General MacArthur's corn cob pipe.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what's funny is I saw on social media.
[SPEAKER_00]: was on on X.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a picture of General Milley, who is the just recently gone, and Eisenhower, and like Eisenhower had two rows of ribbons, just a plain looking just basic uniform, and then General Milley had just a giant rack of ribbons, looking like a Mexican general, as we used to call them.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Windgate's mark of individuality took the form of an ancient sun helmet, vaguely reminiscent of Kippling's India, and he added to the effect by wearing a patriarchal beard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Such affectations of dress and behavior, whether conscious or not, helped make these two generals very real to their men, but this particular approach still holds great risk.
[SPEAKER_00]: It requires not only a very special personality, but complete sincerity as well,
[SPEAKER_00]: Here, let actors beware for the troops are quick to recognize any sham and mark it as hypocritical condensation.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, or sorry, condemn condensation, condensation, there we go, not beads of water, condensation.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're trying to fake this, not going to work.
[SPEAKER_00]: The troops are going to see right through that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the conclusions.
[SPEAKER_00]: The human heart is then the starting point in all matters pertaining to war.
[SPEAKER_00]: The best masters are those who know men best.
[SPEAKER_00]: The man of today and the man of history.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let us then study man in battle for his really he who fights.
[SPEAKER_00]: and, quote, these are words of Colonel DePique, we're written in 1870s a period when warfare was in scientific revolution and when all military verities were being re-examined.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are once again at a time when technical emphasis threatens to obscure some of the basic truths of men in battle, basic truths by definition are those that transcend local considerations
[SPEAKER_00]: Thus, principles governing the emotional state of man of a man armed with a musket are equally valid for the same man armed or the rocket.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that the basic truths transcend that local considerations, they just are what they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: But morale, stemming as it does from emotion is a vague and inconsistent thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Above all, it is a personal thing and they're in lies the commandors' opportunity.
[SPEAKER_00]: The response of the troops to the projection of the commander's personality is his own secret weapon and he must develop his proficiency with it just as a Marxman develops aim.
[SPEAKER_00]: Field Marshal Montgomery has written that the spirit of the warrior is the greatest single factor in war.
[SPEAKER_00]: the commander must recognize the obligation this place is upon him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as he mobilizes the man, he must also mobilize the spirit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's, you know, when this thing kicked off and it said that the tactics and strategy were most important, but Montgomery says, nope, there's something more important.
[SPEAKER_00]: Moral, I agree with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this theme of morale is carried on this next article, which is called the morale of the soldier in a war.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is digested from a copyrighted article by Brigadier Sir John Smith in the Army Quarterly and Defense Journal.
[SPEAKER_00]: This obviously a British guy, Great Britain, April 1960.
[SPEAKER_00]: kick this thing off.
[SPEAKER_00]: What makes one man to quote kippling hold on when there is nothing in him and another man in the same circumstances decide to quit.
[SPEAKER_00]: What makes one unit in a brigade attack so go steadily forward in the face of heavy fire and another unit next to it come to a standstill or go the other way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are interesting aren't they?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we've seen it I've seen it
[SPEAKER_00]: Some dudes will keep going, other dudes are going to quit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Imagine, imagine seeing a brigade, a battalion flee.
[SPEAKER_00]: We had battalions of Iraqi soldiers leave the battle space.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: What makes some men who have previously been courageous soldiers suddenly show cowardice?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do men who have shown themselves steadfast under shell fire lie at the bottom of a trench when the unit is ordered to advance?
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's examples.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's talking about guys that, oh, they've been good to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: All of a sudden they break.
[SPEAKER_00]: All of a sudden a guy who's been steadfast all of a sudden we get told to advance and they're staying in the bottom of the trench.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why does a parachutist who has been trained to jump suddenly refuse to do so?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why does a very fit man break down under certain physical or deals and a man of far inferior physique overcome them?
[SPEAKER_00]: And finally, does modern war and possibly future war with nuclear weapons demand a different kind of morale, just as it must demand a different kind of training and conduct?
[SPEAKER_00]: Perhaps I might pose an answer to this question right away.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the old lesson we have learned with regard to morale in war over the ages still hold good, if only we will understand and apply them correctly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So courage is courage.
[SPEAKER_00]: The unknown and unexperienced
[SPEAKER_00]: are always frightening to human beings, whether they are in civil suits or in uniform and whether the new weapons are bows and arrows, knights and armors, tanks, gas or high explosives, or nuclear shells.
[SPEAKER_00]: Unknown and unexperienced.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is my key in the dragons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Things that we haven't done yet are always so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: They always produce so much fear than things that you've done before.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why you've got to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Get in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: New weapons, of course, demand new tactics which in themselves may put a greater strain on morale.
[SPEAKER_00]: But by and large, all the old factors remain, for instance, the morale of a company probably would be more shaken if an operation on the northwest frontier of India had left behind them a wounded officer and a half a dozen wounded men.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, come along the next morning and see the horrible results.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then, if those same men had been blown to bits by some new form of nuclear shell.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Next section is called Expendable Courage.
[SPEAKER_00]: So first, I would like to propound some of what I believe to be fundamental truths, which lie at the bottom of this problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe courage to be expendable, interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a similar take to David Hackworth, and he's got his whole thing that he wrote about in a about face of people's cups getting filled up, and everyone's got a different size cup, but eventually, some people got a really, really big cup, but if it gets filled up, it doesn't matter anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see that in the Pacific, the
[SPEAKER_00]: What's it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Many series of the Pacific.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see some hard dudes that are hard and they break.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see it in band of brothers as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Guys that are totally good to go, performing exceptionally, totally courageous and then they break and they're done.
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, she's some people that don't have much of a cup at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they just immediately kind of turn into cowards.
[SPEAKER_00]: But some dudes, you see they're hard and they turn into cowards at a certain junction that can't take anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this kind of tracks with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe courage to be expendable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nearly all of us have courage to a greater or lesser degree, just as we all have possessed certain natural powers of physical, mental, and nervous stamina.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all these qualities vary greatly between one man and another, such qualities can be built up by training.
[SPEAKER_00]: Discipline and other means, but they can also be weakened and eventually drain completely under certain conditions What happens?
[SPEAKER_00]: What when that happens either opportunity must be given for the empty vessel to be refilled or That particular man becomes a liability to his comrades It's kind of interesting because he's using the opposite
[SPEAKER_00]: The opposite like metaphor than hackworth uses hackworth uses as a fill.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's getting it's a cup is getting filled up This that's like the combat stress.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's filling up filling up filling up it overflows.
[SPEAKER_00]: This guy's talking about the the What you have to you know you have a vessel that's filled with courage and it's draining drain and draining like a little battered Yeah, like a little battery little energy
[SPEAKER_00]: I have never been able to understand how, for instance, the right reverend jail Wilson Bishop of Singapore captured by the Japanese in 1942, withstood the appalling tortures afflicted upon him by the brutal Japanese.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every man has his breaking point, but they never reached the bishops.
[SPEAKER_00]: This guy was tortured, this guy Wilson, who should do some more do a program about or something, but
[SPEAKER_00]: Not only was he tortured and didn't break, but he also converted some of his Japanese like captors, legit, some men have a horror of heights, but are otherwise brave soldiers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some are brave in company, but become nervous and vacillating would left on their own.
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost everyone has his own particular weakness.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've known grown men who immensely brave under Shellfire, but who shuddered at the thought of a bad nut assault.
[SPEAKER_00]: Others were just the reverse.
[SPEAKER_00]: The very thought that they had to hold a position under heavy Shellfire almost sent them around the bend, bend, but they would all advance bravely to close with the enemy.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I've noticed in my years in the MMA world?
[SPEAKER_00]: is like some dudes, they really like grappling, and they don't like getting hit, and some dudes really don't mind getting hit, but they don't like being held down.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very bizarre.
[SPEAKER_00]: how much you know you you'll get a guy that you know a legit MMA guy legit and if you if you kind of let them take their own course they're oh they're just gonna work on the grappling today yeah or no I'm just gonna I'm just gonna spar today just gonna just just gonna strike today and they'll always lean towards that guy they really don't like that thing
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah oh yeah that's and I think we know this consciously but subconsciously or whatever it still feels like a little bit slippery and unknown that your mental state is very comparable to your physical state and you know like you'll say like okay go the what it's like mind mechanic right if there's something wrong with your mind you go you know like it's
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though it doesn't feel tangible right so that what you're talking about makes complete sense So like what do you mean that your mind state your mental state is reflected?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like if you have a weakness mentally like what you're talking about right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say let's say claustrophobia I prefer to leave somebody's weakness.
[SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, it's just good to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you get in a certain position with your both, you know, double snow angel or something like this it's like literally like your your brain malfunctions like it literally doesn't have the capacity to deal with it That's hard to quantify, you know, like by as opposed to like a physical capability.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say, you know, somebody has a weak bench press.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll say, but every other lift is super strong deadlift squat everything even pulls super short, but his bench is very weak
[SPEAKER_01]: And he gets on a position where he has to push something he fails everyone else is doing good But this guy fails it's kind of like I'm well that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a weak bench Friends, you're saying so it makes complete sense But mentally it doesn't because you can't see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's less like tangible It seems same, but it's literally the same thing so even though you can't it's harder to identify because it's all in your head It's like you know in some like jumbled up Mosh in your head, but it's distinct the same way
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you get a guy who's like braids, like in every situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just brave like down to do it down for the team down like 100% good to go in great shape, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's in, let's say, I don't know a truck or something and then like a rat comes and he just freaking loses it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't sound like some rare thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's something like, oh yeah, I could, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I heard something like there were a movie, you know, like, guys are scared of snakes or something like this, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Meanwhile, he just got freaking shot with a machine gun and got hit by the way, and he's still here kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he's like, no, no, I'm not leaving my unit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, brother, that's bravery that you can't even fathom when you're not in the, you know, assume saying, but then a rat sends you freaking running, like it doesn't make sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, yeah, bro, because the brain and your mind is like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And everybody's different, like the scared of heights thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I've seen people just not down for a height, and I never was scared I'd ever, and it didn't compute.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, bro, you're just kind of being a plus right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then certain things where I can literally feel myself, I'm like, I consciously should not be scared of this right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Closer for a bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like certain clusterful be a fuckin' element seems to be the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just a little backstory for everyone here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I used to train with echo Charles and he would tap from claustrophobia.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would get basically side control, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would get like a side control position, get control of his arms where he really couldn't move, and he would just freaking tap.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is not, honestly, he's not really acceptable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I believe that too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever seen videos about guys doing cave diving?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you hate does?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel literally feel that like yeah the speed lunking right where we can do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll watch the ones where it's more of a story so they don't replay actual footage But it's a story of like how guys get stuck and they're there for like 19 hours Just freaking upside down with their hands like freaking stuck in the cave and then they die Like probably that's like the worst way to die Like I can't even think of something
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, brother and so anyway the point weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I wouldn't know what like the major gratification of Getting through you know getting doing that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you can see you can see kind of getting the the rush of kind of flying You know if you're gonna base jump or something like that you're gonna.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand the rush of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder what the rush of like
[SPEAKER_00]: compressing your body and going through a long tunnel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder what the extreme gratification is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe just over is it overcoming that fear?
[SPEAKER_01]: I would imagine, this is what I don't know at the end of the day.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think, but this way, I think the fear that claustrophobia fear just applies a lot less to some people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I don't think it has anything to do with the claustrophobia and overcoming that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just like exploring terrain in that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you know, like a regular cave person, like they go to these crazy crystal caves.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like they just love it, you know, or these people who, um, you know, they go diving.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like free diving or scuba diving or something like this, you know, in the caves.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the kids, that's a different one, but just in, let's just say in general, right, people are just scuba people, they're going to the Caribbean, they're going to Hawaii, they're going to freaking South Africa, they're going everywhere, because it's just, that's their jam, you know, what, what do they like about it?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's just like that exploratory curiosity and wonder, you know, kind of a thing, I think, how much of it is you're in an ecosystem?
[SPEAKER_00]: where there's a hierarchy, and in order to climb that hierarchy, you just got to keep kind of doing like a more rad shit, harder shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could see that to be the case though, make completes.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a great for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Documentary out right now called the Dark Wizard, and it's about climbing and
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really crazy to watch, but there you can see that people are in an ecosystem where it's like, oh, I got a I got to prove myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got to climb the hierarchy in this ecosystem Which by the way, no one cares about I mean outside that this is this.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's always hard to explain to people?
[SPEAKER_00]: Outside the little ecosystem that you're in no one cares.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was talking to some of the other day
[SPEAKER_00]: when you actually are talking to Noah and when you talk to someone that doesn't know jujitsu like they think you do karate like that's what they think they're just thinking like oh you do you do like the karate okay yeah that's what they think that's what people don't know it are just oh yeah you do karate you're like well I've been training jujitsu for 15 years and they're like oh you do karate you oh like how can you break boards yeah that's you got to get outside that ecosystem yeah yeah when was that
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I kind of briefly talked to him about that too.
[SPEAKER_01]: We went out to see sure it after and um you could tell I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was my impression.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could tell he was kind of holding onto it a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's like, you know, like all the benefits and I started to go way holding on to what?
[SPEAKER_01]: the the ecosystem is maybe more important than it is you know I'm not saying I agree with it there's all kinds of benefits crazy right benefits that was that was my whole point we're outside of it yeah this this ecosystem no one cares about so see even how you're and this is kind of how it went do it just to a small degree see how you're explaining it to me right and you're kind of explaining it you know on air and all this other stuff so it almost can come off sometimes like it's like it doesn't matter right
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was like, which I think you're in the same boat where I'm like, no, bro, I'm with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm down from the ecosystem, don't get that part wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying for the big picture.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, bro, besides us and everyone like us, nobody cares.
[SPEAKER_01]: You seem saying, but just me saying, nobody cares.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of was the part.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, no, but it's all good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, you know, so it was more like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was just a fun company.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I think that ties into as well is.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when people have a hard time transitioning out of the military, it's the exact same thing because no one broke.
[SPEAKER_00]: The ecosystem in the military is like, oh, you, you were this place, you did this, you were this combat, you got this award, you filled this role, like there's all these little little ways to rise in the hierarchy, both the, both the paper hierarchy of like, here's your rank and also just the tribal hierarchy of like, I did this thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you get out and it's like, oh, you're like, people look at me and they're like, oh, you're in the army.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: You're an army guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, well, I was actually in the Navy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so you're on a boat.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was actually in the SEAL teams.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, what's that?
[SPEAKER_00]: I was a commander.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so you're like a greenbrain.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, pretty much.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they don't care.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, oh, then they say, oh, yeah, I knew a guy that was a greenbrain too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, oh, cool, you know, no one cares, no one cares about the little details of your little ecosystem that you are so wrapped up in and it's got to be really difficult, you know, when you the higher you were in that ecosystem, when you get out and no one cares, everyone's like, oh, cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's people.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's plenty of people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sitting here talking to one of them right now Like you tell me the difference between like a master chief and an admiral You don't know the difference you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like tell me the difference between a command sergeant major and a Battalion commander and a and a squadron commander and you know you like yeah and and a freaking
[SPEAKER_00]: A platoon sergeant to you to you they're all just like, oh, you are an army Basically that's what it's like and there's so many things that are like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like oh, sir.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're in the army.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and oh, you do karate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know if you're a Freaking with ultra marathoner.
[SPEAKER_00]: Peel like oh you run you know to me, but oh you oh you run for a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or hey
[SPEAKER_00]: Dude, I'm a freaking back country bowhunter.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, so you, you know, you should bow an arrow, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's just no one, my son has a bow an arrow, by the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a bowhunter, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, basically he's a bowhunter.
[SPEAKER_00]: He shot a squirrel.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what people are.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you're in your little ecosystem, you think it's so freaking important.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so true.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: I had that conversation with my oldest daughter,
[SPEAKER_00]: In the interns at the big tech companies and all this stuff and I was like, hey, she's like, I want to get in this, you know She wanted to get one too and I was like, bro, just come work it victory for the son today It just like everyone said I was like, no, no, that's just an ecosystem no one cares Yeah, no one cares what your grades are no one cares what and you know there's a small percentage of people that care what college you went to But actually that's not that big either
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, especially that people that went to that college, they'll be like, oh, you went to the same college as me.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're a little bit better than everyone else.
[SPEAKER_00]: But no one really actually believes that outside of that ecosystem.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, outside of the ecosystem, we don't care, because I know people that were our idiots that went to Harvard, I don't know the people that idiots that went to Stanford, you like, oh, so you, you tell me, oh, you went to college.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, cool, whatever, I don't care.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a little ecosystem doesn't matter to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you got to pay attention to that ecosystem activity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you also got to recognize that once you get out of that thing,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and be okay with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's kind of the thing because you know when people when people realize Ain't no one cares and they get they get mad, you know Which which is understandable, but it does not helpful, you know to do that right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You're so right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I know that like a private is not that high right of a rank private and then what is I don't I don't even know what a private is in is that army?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay
[SPEAKER_01]: So pray it and then what Colonel will say yeah, I know that that Colonel's freaking high.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think
[SPEAKER_01]: and private is not high, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know how, how much higher I just, no, okay, that's how, you know, kind of a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like me and you will know like, oh, this guy's like a one month, one month white belt.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this guy is a black belt, like, you know, 12 year black belt.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's 25 years old and and a competitor, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We know the discrepancy between that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But,
[SPEAKER_00]: They both just do karate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they just flipped the karate one day to started one guy's been doing it for a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like good congratulations.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I was thinking?
[SPEAKER_00]: Your backbone.
[SPEAKER_00]: How many months does it take to get your back?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, you know what you hear is like, oh, yeah, my neighbor, their daughter became a black belt.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's four or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's nine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she's like you.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a black belt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your backbone.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you should fight or sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and you could literally sit that person down that person that says that and explain to him and they'll be like, Wow, and they're gonna leave it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're gonna forget it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't care about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's the same same.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, a little karate kid says same same all day.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so true.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna watch out for that kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't let you, because because what you got to watch out for is next thing, you know, you're crawling into a freaking cave underwater in order to climb a hierarchy that no one cares about
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no cares about the right like if I met someone that told me they were a damn a cave diver I would have no reference at all, you know, none, you know, it's just okay cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's cool
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and in fact, a lot of people, which is not, it seems bad, but this is just a complete natural like thing, most people would be like, I don't think you should do that really, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I can see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't see it, I don't
[SPEAKER_01]: it's probably not even that smart to do because of the risk and like you could probably be committing to other things that can be more you know conducive to like your life goals and the people around you and all the other stuff and like how you said they'd probably be kind of right at least to a degree for the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's like that with kind of everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: After a certain amount of time is kind of like, bro, you're kind of diminishing returns after a while.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you'm saying, it goes forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: The even like something that's fundamental is health, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: When you're the health, but at some point, your health gets good enough that you can live a...
[SPEAKER_01]: capable life or whatever, but now you're over indexing on hell, so you fail to live your life.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't kind of a thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll take it to a real extreme.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And look, I don't want to get into a 45 minute debate.
[SPEAKER_00]: But let's face it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Trying to injudiate, sir.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even even when you are purple belt and above, trying to injudiate has a multitude of benefits that are way good, training five times a week,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I understand, and but what I'm saying is the benefits that you're talking about if their tip top benefits are going to be more and more subjective as you pass a certain point.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the point is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's purple belt.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's brown belt.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's black belt.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's freaking like the first year.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be a point where you got diminishing return and other people who are not in that ecosystem are going to feel this whether they're right or not they're going to be like, hey, maybe you're kind of wasting your time to it degree.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can say again there now this are we are pulling like world champions out of the equation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like someone that's that's what they do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they're just a jitter guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, are we pulling them out of the area?
[SPEAKER_00]: They're utterly quick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're the exception because they're because that's their profession.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's your job.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're doing every day.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, for someone that's yeah, I guess you could go with someone that is not You know earning a living or being a world champion that is certain points of graaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[SPEAKER_00]: because you could make the argument with me like, hey dude, why don't you play guitar more?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you're pretty good at digits now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you get better at guitar?
[SPEAKER_00]: I could admit that there might be some truth to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You do to be more fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, exactly right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, you're talking about, within the hierarchy, something or the ecosystem.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, when you're in the ecosystem, that's 100% worth it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, right here in the ecosystem, but your family's leaving you because you spend too much you just start moving this worth it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the ecosystem, you're saying it can be like, I'm not saying it's always like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's an example, but it's kind of a facetious example for jiu-jitsu, but like in the in the SEAL teams, that's 100% going out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you know a lot of stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're the business guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know want to climb the corporate ladder in the ecosystem that no one gives a shit VP of whatever you're like You we don't know about any of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't care about any of that when he's doing way you work or you work a lot cool But I'm the I'm the friend.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've been for a few of such and this has been my goal since I was a kid Yeah, I'm going to I got this much money last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, okay
[SPEAKER_00]: What did you do with it?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you doing with it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I don't 100% sure I'm not 100% sure what what's happening over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this was on contradictory actually wouldn't much say.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got a hesitate though.
[SPEAKER_01]: At the end of the day I got a hesitate to start like having those types of opinions because.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody's an individual and they kind of choose their own mission like in life and with any mission, especially if you get to like a significant amount of success No matter what it is, it's like there's going to be some sacrifice, you know Yeah, and it's easy to point out the little things that got sacrificed and say hey, maybe you should have thought those things were more important We're regardless of what it is, you know, regardless of you know I think it's good I think you're right, but also I think it's good to keep in mind as an off ramp, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the day that you don't get the promotion that you want at work, that you're all crushed, man, just like go to anywhere else.
[SPEAKER_00]: And no one cares about the fact that you didn't get promoted.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can carry on and you can enter a new ecosystem.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so it's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gonna be all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, yes, stands your question, I think, yeah, I think those are all factors in the motivation to go diving into caves and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you see them saying, my real point was like, people have weaknesses and this manual that you're reading is, they chose that word, a weakness.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you hear Cowboy Soroni telling that story about on Rogan?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I thought about diving?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was giving me anxiety, just listening to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And my younger brother is a diver.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's the one who told me about that conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a huge, huge, galactic difference between a diver and a free diver and a cave diver.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, those are those are just
[SPEAKER_01]: But a free diver is going to have way more of an accurate kind of perspective here or something like that, you know, so it's like, yeah, if he's going to, if he hears a story like that, he's going to understand like way more really how heavy that is, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah Cowboys are already dude just out there just you would have a fight coming up But he would just be like just do it a while Yes, I should have the diving stuff because just you know what he what he's what's your saying say the water is the great Equalizer yeah, well
[SPEAKER_00]: What I use to say is, if you're in the water, it's a real world vibe because the water will kill you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't care.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no like training time out.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you're drowning.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're dying.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what's happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So props.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Going back this fierce speaking of fears, common fears.
[SPEAKER_00]: The raw material, therefore, which has to be made into fighting soldiers, is a collection of individuals with varying hopes and fears and idiosyncrasies.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when the natural inclination of all of them, when under fire is probably to get into some hole and stay there until it's all over.
[SPEAKER_00]: Till that's our natural instinct.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shoot and start some to get in a hole and say they're.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although as I've said, all men have natural military assets and varying degrees.
[SPEAKER_00]: They also have certain common fears.
[SPEAKER_00]: The greatest of these are death and mutilation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Perhaps the second is more universal fear than the first.
[SPEAKER_00]: Certainly among young men.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although most soldiers naturally fear death.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they may see it all around them.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is curious how they nearly all think that it will not happen to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was very struck by this on one occasion when, as a young officer, I found myself pinned down on a hillside in France where a British platoon had been caught by a machine gun in onflade and wiped out to a man.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought perhaps I might give comfort to some of the relatives if I wrote them to tell them that their boy died bravely and quickly, while searching them on their effects for addresses, I found several unfinished letters to the folks at home.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they all expressed a firm belief that whatever happened to anyone else, they would come through it all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is going back to Dean Ladd, U.S. Marine Corps, going to the Taroa, they're the most hellacious brief.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's telling us about the brief they're going in, there's machine gun nest, there's enemy dug in, they've been preparing for 18 months.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have to cross this reef, they're going to be naked on the beach, it's going to be a nightmare.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I ask him where you scared, he's like, no, all that stuff happens to the other guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's end quote right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's not scared.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's going to happen to the other guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most people, even highly-trained soldiers fear the unknown, although sometimes the fear of the devil, you know, is greater than the devil you do not.
[SPEAKER_00]: The divisions that were subjected to the first German gas attack in France in 1915, threw down their arms and fled in panic.
[SPEAKER_00]: That must have been a truly terrifying ordeal for the troops who were quite unsuspecting and completely unprotected against such a weapon.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the ordeal of the troops who had to counterattack a few days later,
[SPEAKER_00]: and what the gas casualties looked like was every bit as bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our first tanks worked terrifying to the Germans and what a pity it was that we used them in such a peace meal way.
[SPEAKER_00]: The jungles particularly frightening to the untrained man as indeed is the craggy mountain side, particularly when people buy the hearty and generally invisible frontier tribesmen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Victory, of course, is a great morale razor and troops can stand far greater or deals in victory and pursuit than they will in defeat and withdraw.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was why Lord Montgomery was so wise, never to launch a major attack until the odds were in his favor.
[SPEAKER_00]: He managed to give the 8th army a diet of unbroken victory and such, and on such fair, their achievements became progressively greater, and talking of the diet, the British soldier, unlike the Japanese, does not fight well on short rations.
[SPEAKER_00]: Static conditions such as the trench warfare of World War I are apt to be very trying indeed to morale, especially if the enemy has artillery superiority.
[SPEAKER_00]: The British soldier, in particular, likes movement, and of course, air superiority.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that idea of stacking up victories, you know, I remember Jordan Peterson talking about like rats, you put rats in a pipe in a tunnel and if a rat, they like fight each other and the winning rat is, you know, something like 80% gonna win his next fight and the losing rat is 80% gonna lose their next fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just get used to getting their ass beat.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, getting that momentum going, real positive thing for the morale.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why when people ask me when people have a company or something or a military unit or a police unit and they're having morale issues, I'm like, get some small wins, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: They can't be totally insignificant, they can't be like a joke, you rack up a couple small wins.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm starting to win a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing with your kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kids has a hard time with something.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why you don't want to put your kids up a level in due to or up a weight class and wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're getting their ass beat.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not their morale goes down.
[SPEAKER_00]: If there's a stronger kid, maybe a little bit older.
[SPEAKER_00]: And look, the actual numbers is 80-20.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want them winning 80% of the time and losing 20% of the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is just something to keep in mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to be able to pull it off guaranteed.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you if your kid is winning a hundred percent of the time,
[SPEAKER_00]: maybe bump up a level, you know, the soccer, whatever, the soccer group or the hockey team, after winning a hundred percent of the time, maybe bump up a level.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if they're winning 30, 40, 50 percent of the time, keeping there, let him win 80 percent of the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: They get to 90 percent of the time, make him bump up.
[SPEAKER_00]: But winning, as I used to tell my wife and my kids, when I would say, all right, going to this tournament today, you know, you get trying to win this thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my wife would say, no, you just want to have fun out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'd say, winning is fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's even true.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like small stuff, like you ever try to learn, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: What I'm quote grown person grown man you were trying to learn like something completely new and you And you look into and you start, you know, I don't know you can look it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say a tutorial one On the internet or something like this and you you know, and you try it
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, oh, shoot, you kind of get that first step.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, oh, frick, I can kind of do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're down for that next step.
[SPEAKER_01]: As opposed to you try to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They demonstrate it and you're, okay, now it's your turn.
[SPEAKER_01]: You try to do it and you're like, bro, I can't, and you don't get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, bro, I can't do this, this dump.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, you know, it's not for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you literally fit as an adult.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you feel that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Students say, so that, that's, that's, those roots just put to eat, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Check, winning is fun, back to the book, factors affecting morale.
[SPEAKER_00]: What a nuclear war demand higher morale than, for instance, facing a gas attack attack attack or deadly machine gun, a bayonet charge, or the flame thrower?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are all extremely unpleasant things, like the way it says.
[SPEAKER_00]: All extremely unpleasant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Flame thrower, bayonet charge, deadly machine gun, and nuclear attack.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are all extremely unpleasant.
[SPEAKER_00]: And much more trying than some men than they are to others, modern war does of course demand greater dispersion which in turn demands a higher standard of junior leadership.
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course good leadership in any type of warfare is one of the greatest morale razors of all.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are some of the factors which must influence us in selecting and training our modern fighting man.
[SPEAKER_00]: We need good leaders and brave, fit and well trained men.
[SPEAKER_00]: We should try to nurse young soldiers into action under the most favorable conditions.
[SPEAKER_00]: as did that wise commander Bill Slim when he was preparing to lead his 14th Army back in to Burma in 1943.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our troops should be well-weaponed, well-equipped, and well fed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when it comes to battle, we must not take the pitcher too often to the well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember always, remembering always that courage is expendable.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got very, very lucky in my military career and that I got, what do they say?
[SPEAKER_00]: I got nursed as a young soldier into action, like very nice escalation.
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't like day one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a nice,
[SPEAKER_00]: including even training, like the training, escalates the guitar and harder, and more and more intense, and then eventually combat.
[SPEAKER_00]: I start up very mellow combat, which is the way, which is very, again, very lucky.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you can do that with your troops, do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, although we may know the ideals at which we want to aim, people's opinions differ as to how we should attain them.
[SPEAKER_00]: We do not know how different men will react to certain stresses and or deals until they actually have to endure them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even when we know our men what, even when we know our men well and have trained them to the best of our ability, they are still only human beings in uniform with the unusual human unpredictability, with the usual, sorry, with the usual, human unpredictability.
[SPEAKER_00]: going through basic seal trading.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of it there's no freaking purpose whatsoever other than just make sure you're not going to quit and that's it and like they're going to throw all kinds of stress at you.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you can handle all that stress, bro, it's it's debilitating it you're getting injured.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what's happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're you're getting injured while you're going through.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say, hell week.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's a pretty good predictor that you're not going to give up.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not perfect, but it's a pretty good predictor.
[SPEAKER_00]: back to the book.
[SPEAKER_00]: And always we come back to the underlying truth that the law is in the circumstances.
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, the week's tour of duty in the front line trenches in the world war one could either be either a very great ordeal or merely a somewhat anxious and uncomfortable experience dependent upon where on the front you were.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in the bad parts, a unit's tour of duty should have been about three days and nights at most, sometimes that could be arranged.
[SPEAKER_00]: But often this was particularly true in the early days, the circumstances simply did not permit, and then, good men, became so drained of their courage and their mental and physical stamina that they took a long time to recover.
[SPEAKER_00]: The same thing happened, of course, in the Royal Air Force, pilots who were allowed to take part in too many dangerous missions without a break reached a condition when they became a danger to themselves and to their associates.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, so important.
[SPEAKER_00]: You run that engine in the red.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you keep running the red, it's going to blow out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to be usable anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you can run it in the red for a day, what three days here, running the red for three days, you've got to take that thing off the line.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to pay attention to your people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Pay attention to your people.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you run them to the red and keep running them, they're going to break.
[SPEAKER_00]: Many books have been written about the ordeal of British prisoners of war in Japanese hands.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were always in a state of semi-starvation, and most of them were also suffering some kind of tropical disease.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were brutally ill-treated and grossly overworked, and the percentage of deaths among them was dreadfully high.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had practically no news from home and little from the outside world.
[SPEAKER_00]: The marvel is that so many survived.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another example of unpredictability of human beings was in the type of men who survived these conditions and those who gave up and died.
[SPEAKER_00]: In many cases, the fine athlete of excellent physique went down and the most unexpected types came through.
[SPEAKER_00]: But by the end of their years of captivity, the survivors had been drained of almost everything saved courage.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is why their rehabilitation has in so many cases been a long business.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have tried to pose some of the problems which have to be overcome in order to produce highly trained soldiers in good morale and to keep them morale high in conditions of continuous strain and danger.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the acknowledged AIDS so to speak in the attainment of these ideals?
[SPEAKER_00]: Love of Country, love of family,
[SPEAKER_00]: Religion, tradition, pride of regimen and pride in oneself have all been great factors in morale.
[SPEAKER_00]: belief in victory is another one, and this feeling of complete confidence in success has never been endangered, and gendered, sorry, more than by two of Britain's greatest commanders.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lord Nelson and Lord Montgomery, a high standard of individual training is also a very great morale razor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't it interesting?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: You start stacking these things up, and when you know people that have these things in their life, just in normal life, like the life is better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Life is better.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you have this pride, this love of your family, religion, religion, tradition, pride in your unit, pride in your company, pride in your team, discipline.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you have these things in regular life, your life is better.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was, for instance, very little basic difference between the British and Indian troops who resisted the Japanese invasion of Burma in 1942, and those who finally retook Burma two and a half years later.
[SPEAKER_00]: Had our Burma troops in 1942 been employed in the desert, as they, as had been intended, they would have done very well.
[SPEAKER_00]: But plunged into an entirely unfamiliar environment of jungle warfare for which they had neither training equipment,
[SPEAKER_00]: Nor transport, and opposed, as they were, by highly trained Japanese divisions, their own inferiority, soon became apparent to themselves just as it did to the Japanese.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when it did, in addition, they were faced with a superior air force, then you had a set of circumstances which could have rapidly reduced the confidence and morale of any troops in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: but you get off on the wrong foot.
[SPEAKER_00]: That always stings when you get off on the wrong foot like when the other team scores forced or you get swept like something happens when you get off on the wrong foot man that that momentum swings in what is momentum moment momentum is basically morale.
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, the law was in the circumstances not in the men at that particular stage of the war there were no other troops to send.
[SPEAKER_00]: next section, discipline.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the great aids to morale is, of course, a high standard of discipline, both individual and unit discipline.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in the past, one of the chief methods of its attainment was Barrick Square Drill.
[SPEAKER_00]: the chief protagonists of this have always been the guards.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember very well the first occasion on which I saw the guards in action.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was Christmas 1914.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the place was Gavinci in northern France, which in the previous ten days had been captured in recaptured several times.
[SPEAKER_00]: At that moment the Germans were firmly in position of Gavinci.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the high ground and the high ground and we had been bundled down into the valley where we were preparing to spend a miserable Christmas and wet and muddy trenches.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had been detailed to guide a French battalion in a night assault on the position, but finding uncut wire.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the hill feature very strongly held, the battalion commander had wisely decided the task was impossible.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that period of this extraordinary war, all ground lost had to be recaptured, regardless of its value, and regardless of losses.
[SPEAKER_00]: We then heard that a guards brigade was going to counter attack.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're starting point being our own frontline trenches.
[SPEAKER_00]: So imagine that, you're in this trench.
[SPEAKER_00]: They tell you, hey, you're gonna attack this high ground German position.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then your leader goes, hey, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's impossible, not gonna happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you go, okay, cool, we don't have to attack that position.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then another unit shows up, the guards.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they get told, hey, you're gonna attack that German position.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna leave from where these guys that wouldn't do it are.
[SPEAKER_00]: The conditions were cheerless.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a bitterly cold day and snow was threatening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gavinci was an extremely strong, exceedingly strong, and commanding position, and there was not nearly enough artillery support available to give the attack more than an outside chance of success.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wondered what the guards would make of such a situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I watched their calm, precise, and thorough preparations with interest.
[SPEAKER_00]: When zero-hour struck, the attack started, all hell was let loose.
[SPEAKER_00]: The hefty sergeant to whom I had given a leg up over the parapet was back in the trench before he had gone a yard with a bullet through the leg.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the leading companies shook out at the double and then moved forward at a steady walk as though they had been on parade ground, dude.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only men who stumbled or fell were the casualties.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought of marshal boss Boke's remark on the charge of the light brigade.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is wonderful, but it is not war, but it was war.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were getting there and their great traditions disciplined and barric square drill were paying off.
[SPEAKER_00]: The attack was not a complete success, but I felt that no other troops in the world could have done what the guards did that day.
[SPEAKER_00]: this episode made a lasting impression on me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, there you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Close it out with this.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's, there's been a tendency in some quarters to consider discipline, blimpish, and barracks square drill out of date.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there is no doubt that the ladder does not now conform to any of the movements required of modern forces in the field.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nevertheless, the more unpleasant and frightening war becomes, the more important it is for the will to be stiffened by individual discipline and by discipline and high morale of the unit.
[SPEAKER_00]: The question is, how can this best be done?
[SPEAKER_00]: I do not pretend to know all the answers.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have just tried to present the problem and make some suggestions.
[SPEAKER_00]: But of one thing I am quite sure, you cannot expect men, however well-trained and equipped they may be, to produce their highest endeavors in conditions of difficulty and danger without some enobling thought to inspire them.
[SPEAKER_00]: looking back at some of the aids I quoted earlier, they are all ideas in the mind of the soldier, love of country, religion, tradition, and pride of regiments.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Things change, but things stay the same, and so much, you know, so much of it depends on leadership.
[SPEAKER_00]: and what the troops see and how they react to what they see and also the training that they've been led through by the leaders.
[SPEAKER_00]: The leadership sets up, it sets up the morale.
[SPEAKER_00]: Leadership establishes the discipline.
[SPEAKER_00]: Leadership sets the example and I think what is important to remember that you are in a leadership position right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are in a leadership position right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: whether you're the junior person at your company, whether you're the mother or father in a family, whether you're the oldest kid or the middle kid, or you're the junior guy in a opportunity.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't really matter where you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are in a leadership position and it's everything that you do and you have to pay attention to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't just lumber through life.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to lead.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I got for the military review, November 1960.
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen, when it comes to discipline, we know that doing hard things, now do I recommend cave diving, not really?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a hard thing, but I'm not recommending it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We do know that other hard things, say for things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll give you improved discipline, mental and physical.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why we're lifting, we're not cave diving necessarily.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, it's your thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just be careful, you're not getting sucked into an ecosystem because you might be.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're lifting, we're working out, we're training, we're running, we're doing Jiu Jitsu.
[SPEAKER_00]: we're we're we're getting after it and we're getting after it guess what guess what echo Charles gonna need fuel you got to need fuel look at do you're gonna need fuel we recommend strongly recommend jockel fuel get some energy drinks if you had that all all the energy drinks are improved now okay better formulation improved formulation
[SPEAKER_00]: and improve taste.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, they're awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very addicted to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very addicted to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, we have the best protein, tasty protein too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dissert, protein desserts.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still on this Greek yogurt scenario.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Greek yogurt.
[SPEAKER_00]: recipe, recipes, Greek yogurt with with milk in it, with protein powder in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can just you can have any kind of dessert you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like whatever, whatever weird you know fantasy you have about dessert, you can make it happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Chocolate, chocolate, peanut butter, chocolate, mint, strawberry, banana,
[SPEAKER_00]: coffee like you can do it you can do it whatever fantasy you have you can do it and by the way if you get some some of the sugar-free chocolate chips and maybe maybe if you really want to go hard in the paint for dessert there was some so throw some whipped cream on top so you got you got chocolate moose that's so good for you and so tasty we got joint warfare time war we got everything that you need
[SPEAKER_00]: We're on the path and that means we need the right fuel so check out jockelfuel.com or go to any store really that you want to go to think we're in 50,000 different locations in America which is pretty amazing so you should be able to find it in your store if they don't have it in your store ask them say we want that jockelfuel over here we're trying to stay on the path
[SPEAKER_00]: and we'll get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So check out Jockel Fuel and Speaking of Jiu-Jitsu, you need some Jiu-Jitsu gear.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have had a lot of people fight really hard in this country against communism.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we don't want to support communism.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we like to wear communist free Jiu-Jitsu clothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Communist free Gigi to clothing with a hundred percent free of communism.
[SPEAKER_00]: No slavery involved We got Gigi to geese we got rashguards.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have you because you know me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of like wear the same thing every day Yes, and now I have just like by Gigi to I have the same what is it?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have the same rashguards with the Black Raptor camo.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I notice I like see videos and I'm like oh yeah every single day I'm wearing the same thing Yeah, and so it's kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: The way with the way we roll.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have to think they get he was put it on wait so you're multiple of them Oh, yes, I got a five oh yeah, yeah, that's a five so Jiu-Jitsu jeans boots.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did the I did a speech at the kickoff of the 250th anniversary of America.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did that in Washington, D.C.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I caught that speech.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, good one, appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did some good stuff happen for sure?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, just so you know, and so that we know, I was 100% head to toe made an America origin.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was wearing the black denim pants.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are jeans, but the black is so black.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some, I have to get Pete to expand on it, but the thread itself is black.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the thread is black, so we know you wash a pair of denim blue jeans.
[SPEAKER_00]: They fade over time.
[SPEAKER_00]: These black jeans, they don't fade.
[SPEAKER_00]: The thread is black.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's black.
[SPEAKER_00]: So even though they said, hey, they said, hey, you know, dress, you know how you want to dress, but we would prefer no jeans.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, well,
[SPEAKER_00]: We're getting in there with the jeans, so I had origin boots on, origin jeans, black jeans, which again, they're more like pants, and then I had this new shirt that's just about to come out thanks to Amanda and Pete, but I think Amanda.
[SPEAKER_00]: Amanda found the blue shirt and fed exit to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it looks sharp, man, it's America.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a blue shirt on, you know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I had a white origin t-shirt on underneath, so I was head to toe, 100% American
[SPEAKER_00]: some origin drip.
[SPEAKER_00]: Origin all day because this is America and America look America was built by freedom.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I said in the speech and when you buy something from origin it's built by freedom.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not built by a slave, it's not built by communism, it's not built by the state, it's not built by the bureaucracy, it's built by freedom.
[SPEAKER_00]: So go to originUSa.com and support freedom support America to 150 years of freedom.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what we're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: OriginUSa.com, check it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a miracle.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you said.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you like it?
[SPEAKER_01]: It is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Indeed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, Jockel Store, if you want to represent Discipline Equals Freedom, and good, this where you can get your stuff, I'm sure some hoodies on there, it's summer time, so maybe not, I mean there's still hoodies, you know, get them if you want, you know, you let somewhere cold, or you want it for the, for the fall or the winter, well, if you're in California, in California, you have to have a hoodie with you, yeah, oh, there's almost 90, I would say 97% of the time, you're gonna need a hoodie at night,
[SPEAKER_00]: me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go need a hoodie at night.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the way it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: The semi-air desert, the temperature is high during the day.
[SPEAKER_00]: 75, 8 degrees, maybe even 82 degrees.
[SPEAKER_00]: But at night, drop, oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Could see the 50's during the summertime.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the good news about that is like, yeah, sometimes 50's, for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: But sometimes it's 60's.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just insane.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you don't need that hoodie hoodie.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for that reason, we've got a cup.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've really got a couple variations.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the lightweight hoodie, I think we only have a few left though, with the lightweight hoodie.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a more of like a thicker t-shirt kind of scenario.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a long-sleeved t-shirt Then we got kind of a medium light, which is the quick flip.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: That looks good on.
[SPEAKER_01]: That one looks good too You know, for maybe a 60-degree scenario and then, you know, then we got the regular hoodie.
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems like it's not ultra heavy But it's like, you know, it'll protect you out here at the beach or something, you know, with your family and stuff like that Just fun goes down win kicks up a little bit
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a saying so I see how but and boom you're representing Yeah, this is a clinical's freedom all day Same same all day and you can stay functional temperature wise also some shorts on there Some hats on there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, shirt locker subscription new design every month Don't forget about that you can check it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: See what it's all about it's all on jocquistries Click on the top it'll take you to the page you'll you'll find out everything you need to know on there
[SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty cool people seem to like it on, on juggle store.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shack.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Books.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got put your legs on by Rob Jones.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got need to lead by Dave Burke.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've written a bunch of books over in a bunch of kids books.
[SPEAKER_00]: Get those kids books for your neighbors.
[SPEAKER_00]: They want to be on the path.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just don't know it yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Help them get on the path.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wave the warrior kid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go get some Colorado craft beef dot com get yourself some stake Slam front dot com leadership.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have leadership problems inside your organization.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what we do is we teach leadership the principles of leadership the skills of leadership.
[SPEAKER_00]: We bring organizations together if you need help inside your organization.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go to slam front dot com also check out extreme ownership dot com.
[SPEAKER_00]: So where we teach our skills online.
[SPEAKER_00]: Leadership is a skill that can be learned and you won't be bummed out you won't feel like echo Charles felt when he tried to do something and it didn't work and he said this is not for me We will show you that leadership is for you go to extreme ownership dot com and learn the skills of leadership If you want to help out service members active and retired doing help out the families cold star families Check out Mark Lee's mom mom will be just got an amazing charity organization if you want to donate or you want to get involved to go to america's mighty warriors dot
[SPEAKER_00]: org also check out heroes and horses.org and Jimmy Mays or organization beyond the brotherhood.org.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got the swim coming up in New York City.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to participate in the the seal swim, go to beyond the brotherhood.org.
[SPEAKER_00]: Check that out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also check out warriors in need.org as well as strongholdrescue.org.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to connect with us, check out jockow.com, and then on social media, the great time consumer on that jock of willing echoes at echo trails, just don't let it get hold of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You really shouldn't, it's evil.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks to our uniform personnel around the world right now, especially those who are currently in harm's way, protecting us in our way of life here in America.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, thanks to our police law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMT's dispatchers, correctional officers, board patrol secret service, as well as all of the first responders, thanks for keeping us safe here at home.
[SPEAKER_00]: And everyone else out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember that one of the greatest AIDS to morale is discipline.
[SPEAKER_00]: Discipline a high standard of discipline for you a high standard of discipline for your team But remember that discipline that does not come easy it doesn't just show up You have to make it show up you have to earn it And you do that by getting up every day And getting after it and that's all we've got for tonight and until next time the Zekko and Joko out