[SPEAKER_00]: He everybody welcome back to the podcast, you know, I titled this exactly The way that I titled it is because that's what I said in this podcast and so a lot of people struggle with this A lot of these things right and so this is a multi-faceted diverse podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about a lot of different things.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about the remote collar.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about what tools to use more importantly We talk about what I think is
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so important for dog owners to understand and I've talked about it before for sure, but in this podcast, it's really broken down in a way that I think is going to be super helpful, especially if you're newer to the podcast for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you have to, so again, like the title of this podcast and what I say to these guys is you have to educate yourself about the subject before you can complain about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's exactly what so many dog owners do is they hire somebody, they want to stop something,
[SPEAKER_00]: do everything they can, but they don't know the foundation, and that's why so many dog trainers and dog owners in the ecosystem of dog stuff just fail, because it, it, people don't understand the foundation and the principles and the,
[SPEAKER_00]: And the core reason why dogs are failing, you know, they just, oh, my dog is barking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's try to stop the barking or whatever, it's important to know why the dog is barking and then also what skill sets does the dog need to be successful if your dog is barking at people and they come over and, you know, the question came up a couple times what what equipment should I use.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's not so much about the equipment.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about the skills.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about the experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about the training.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about the foundation, it's about what the dog knows.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is excellent.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you guys are gonna really love this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you share it with anybody who's struggling with their dog because if I were to write a book, it would be this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is the most important thing that I think dog owners are missing and skipping is they are asking their dog to do something that the dog isn't prepared for and then leaving the room frustrated because their dog failed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why we created the no bad dog movement in the first place.
[SPEAKER_00]: So enjoy this guys and we'll talk to you in the next one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, good morning.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Tom.
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, Tom.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Jennifer.
[SPEAKER_02]: My wife is the one that set up the call.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for taking some time to talk to us today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: What have we got going on?
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have a 16-month-old Bernadduro.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she has been nipping lately.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just the backstory.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did a week long session with the monk of Nuskee for e-collar training, and things have been going well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't been so on the mark with the e-collar lately, but anyway, the reason we reached out is because last week, she got the zoomies when we were at the end of the walk.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, she actually like broke my skin on my arm, get um, she started like jumping and nipping at me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, um, I just wanted to get some information and some guidance from you as to how we can get that to stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: Get what to stop in particular.
[SPEAKER_00]: To zoom in?
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, the, the, I know the, the biting the nipping.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, she even like,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when we're playing with her sometimes she'll open up her mouth and you know, we don't want her to be any opening up her mouth and like nipping or anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously worse than that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we, to give you a little more on that time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, she's very like she's a very loving playful dog.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, she at daycare like everyone loves her.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's a wonderful dog.
[SPEAKER_02]: But.
[SPEAKER_02]: My fear is that we have to address this now, like the fact that she actually bit Genevieve and not just like, you know, use her mouth.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, and I, I met a loss for what to do, but I definitely don't want her biting Genevieve.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want her biting someone else, you know, and hurting someone else.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, and I just don't know what to do to correct it or to stop it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's talk about the, so the basics, you know, we talk about the foundation of communication with dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if, if she's doing something that we don't want her to do, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So if she, it gets the zoomies and then turns around and nips you or is getting malady with you during play or any time that she puts her mouth on something that you guys don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: find appropriate, you know, we have to tell that that's inappropriate behavior and we don't like it, and we correct that behavior, just like we would with anybody else.
[SPEAKER_00]: If somebody would have called you the wrong name, you'd say, oh, no, my name's this, like you correct it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So what type of corrections have you guys done with with her when she does this?
[SPEAKER_02]: So when she was,
[SPEAKER_02]: She had when she little, she was really little, we had the Martin Gill on her until we would do a correction on the Martin Gill and then as she got older, we still use a Martin Gill, but you know, now I just with when it's me, I say no bite in a very loud deep voice and she stops, she she stops with the mouth on me, I wasn't with her when she bit Genevieve, but like a bite like that, I feel like has to be a much
[SPEAKER_02]: more severe correction.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the Martin Gillide, I don't know if that's going to get it done, but Jen, why don't you talk a little about what you've done?
[SPEAKER_02]: Jen, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: When it comes to our dog's clothes, she's wonderful.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to get the impression that she's not a good dog, she's phenomenal dog, but Jen and Eve is the one who is the primary caregiver for a
[SPEAKER_00]: react to me as quickly as she does with Doug.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I will give her a correction with the Martin Gale.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would also like step on the leash so she couldn't jump up at me, but then she just would usually like nip at my ankles or my pants or my sneakers.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she will eventually stop, but it is a site to see, I mean, she just, she doesn't stop for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so my, my question is, how severe of a correction needs to happen for her to get that, because like the Martin Gell and my voice obviously isn't enough right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the answer is really predicated of her, so it's kind of like asking somebody how hungry they are, and it's like, well, it's just up to them, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So the answer really is going to be on her, and, you know, just to give you a scale to and to give you context, like the voice and the Martin Gail is,
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's like levels of corrections depending on the dog sensitivity.
[SPEAKER_00]: The first level is the Flat collar the second level is the Martin Gale so the Martin Gale is Very very low in the total pulse for us corrections and pressure to a dog and so so just giving you guys an outline right now We're giving her a correction on the Martin Gale when she has the zoomies and when she is You know getting mow the and it's not working so
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just another question or a kind of a road map of just going up a level to, you know, correct her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because right now, to your point, like she's a good dog, she has a good personality, she has a good demeanor, she's just doing stuff that you don't like, but you haven't corrected her in a way that she cares about.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's very, very common for her to get, she's just taking advantage of you and she will continually taking advantage of you until you guys kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: And because you guys have done e-collar training extensively, I mean, that's, that's what it's for.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you've spent all that money on the training, the board in training and the equipment.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's literally, that's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's your answer.
[SPEAKER_00]: 1,000%.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like she starts to get the zoomies, you tell her to down, she doesn't, you correct her with the color.
[SPEAKER_00]: She comes at your arms, your hands, you correct her with the e-colour and it'll be done.
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll probably take you guys less than 10 minutes and it'll be over.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, because that was my question.
[SPEAKER_01]: We also have the problem collar, but I should go directly to the e-colour because that would be the most
[SPEAKER_01]: clear, quick way to resolve that.
[SPEAKER_01]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you guys have already, it's like buying a car and still walking.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, what are you doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it really makes you know, and listen, we tell this our clients all the time because a lot of people just, it's like, it's like with me too, I mean, it's like,
[SPEAKER_00]: You commit to something, and then it just gets to the wayside, but now you need to just bring it back out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the reason why I'm saying that is, yes, the e-collar is an amazing tool to reinforce and enforce behaviors off-leash, but you guys have already paid for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: like you know what I mean like the training is already done and the e-colors already there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all the hard work is done.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like doing all this hard work and just like lighten it on fire.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like this it's it don't don't do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like use it because that's exactly
[SPEAKER_00]: why it's there is because she's off leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're trying to communicate with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only tool that's really going to help you do that is the remote collar and you've already gone through that extensive training or she has.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that would be a really easy thing to nip in the bud pretty quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, it should take less than 10 minutes and you shouldn't see it again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, to that, like, obviously, I'm seeing that more at the end of our walk, but during the walk too, like, I haven't taken her, I haven't had the e-color on her when we go for a walk, and she's okay, but then if
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when somebody else, either a person is out or, you know, another dog, she just immediately lays down, and because she wants to, like, she's making, you know, she's trying to engage with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I continuously treat her while we're walking by, like, she's, she's fine, but the minute I, if I don't catch it, you know, before, then, so should the e-collar be on her for the walk to.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's no reason why it shouldn't, but I mean, I wouldn't use it for that necessarily.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what not to do when your dog pancakes is to turn around and have a conversation, which is what almost everybody does.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, so when you when you move forward with the dog, and they decide to go, I don't want to move.
[SPEAKER_00]: you have to understand that the whole intentions of them doing that is to stop the walk.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it doesn't matter what you turn around and say to the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've gotten what they wanted.
[SPEAKER_00]: So dogs are very conditioned animals.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it'd be the same thing as if they heard a chip bag open and they got a chip every time.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're conditioned.
[SPEAKER_00]: They know that sound means.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if a dog pancakes and then we stop, we're teaching them that that's
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to be really careful with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's more of a handling sequence than anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're walking, she pancakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, I don't think I've ever talked to anybody who doesn't do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, this is the reason why it's happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of dog owners, they turn around, they go, come on, let's go, they tug in the leash a little bit, they have this conversation, they go back to the dog, they go, they go,
[SPEAKER_00]: they do all the treats, they do all that stuff and it really just digs yourself a deeper hole than you're already in.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what you want to do is just keep walking and just use the leash and add just a little bit of pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to add continuous pressure and drag the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: What you're going to do is just these quick little micro pops and then have your back be facing the dog and keep moving and I've never had a dog not bump forward and go
[SPEAKER_00]: You just, you kind of are just, nope, this isn't working today.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm leaving.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the dog will follow.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the same thing with kids really.
[SPEAKER_00]: They kind of throw a tantrum and you just walk out and then they chase you every time.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to, they're just not going to stay there by themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so it's not necessarily a conversation of e-collar versus not, it's more about what you shouldn't be doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: to make that, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: So just keep going, add a little bit of pressure, kind of like pink, pink, pink, pink, and then eventually, she'll just pop forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then if you do that enough, she'll realize that pan-caking and laying down isn't going to work just because, again, they're conditioned animals.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if they lay down and then you stop, boop, done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bingo, ding ding ding ding.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got it every time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, if you turn around and say I'm returning you and bringing you back, I'm going to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't give a shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: They quite literally, they say, I want you to stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: They slow down.
[SPEAKER_00]: You stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bing reward.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dopamine.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you just have to kind of keep moving and don't give them what they want, if you will.
[SPEAKER_02]: Jennifer went to the training when she was five months old, but we haven't really used it since then.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm assuming that we need to like go through the process of like reassessing all the settings because I'm guessing that what works when she was five months old might be different now that she's 15 months old or should we just rely on the settings that we found when Jen went to the monks last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, both.
[SPEAKER_00]: So your setting should be the same, but she probably needs a refusher.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say she's probably going to need somewhat of a refusher.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you just would get back into conditioning it kind of like re-establishing would be a good idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how you do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you kind
[SPEAKER_02]: and then so forth, and then on her walks, and she's been using Gensby using the leash.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it using the leash and the E-collar in conjunction?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then eventually getting to a point where we don't need the leash or what does that progression look like?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or what should that progression look like?
[SPEAKER_00]: So it kind of depends on how it's introduced, but the monastery and how I do it are pretty similar in that regard.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, it would be a long line, and then E-colourist Demulation, a low E-colourist Demulation to a behavior of the dog knows well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we call it, well, it's not, we call it, what it's called as a negative reinforcement.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we asked the dog to place or come and we hold the e-colour stimulation at a non-punitive level until the dog does the behavior.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then once that happens, we shut the e-colour off and then we pay the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's...
[SPEAKER_00]: So there is the leash in the beginning for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like your training wheels as you're learning this awful.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the gray area before you go completely off leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then once you've once the dog has been proven to do really well with it, then you then you remove it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're using the leash, you're using the leash in the beginning, but it's usually a long way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a 15 foot long line.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like, again, it's your safety.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're your primarily, you're primarily using the e-collar for your communication.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right to turn and stop and.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and to place and to recall and all that stuff, and it's just to kind of, so the E-Color is really an extension off of your foundation.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the thing that's going to teach your dog everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be an extension.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's say for an example, she's running around.
[SPEAKER_00]: She starts to get the zoomies.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can kind of see or get an agitated frustrated or just plain roughly where you don't want that to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then at that point, you can just tell her to down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if she has to know down, obviously, and also, if she knows down well enough, you can use the remote caller to enforce it, if she decides to say no.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that way, you can use it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's say she's running around, and she's starting to get melty and grabby and snorley and just aggressive.
[SPEAKER_00]: in that play kind of a zooming manner, and you can just, you can basically put the fire out and just say down, and then put her into a down, and then use the remote caller to communicate with her that, and then that's kind of like the beauty of it, and that's what I would be doing for, or just the place, like if she starts to go crazy and you can start to see that kind of flare come out, and you're like, I know she's about to jump on me and get crazy, I'm just going to send her to her place.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, that would be, that's how you would use the, that's how you would use the remote collar for situations like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so yeah, anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and then how do you do, say, doubt the treats at some point?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or, you know, as long as she's doing what you're wanting, expecting from her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, good question.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the treats are, once the dog knows the behaviors well, that the food is really like the cherry on top, so it's not, it's not really necessary after the dog has gone through like the training phases, so a lot of times like the way that I do it is I will verbally reward the dog and then I will pay the dog with food or treats.
[SPEAKER_00]: While I'm teaching and developing a behavior, because I really want them to understand what I'm asking and feel confident and feel comfortable and also get what I'm saying and be motivated.
[SPEAKER_00]: But here's the problem, there's a lot of dog owners and even most trainers will depend on the food, therefore when the food goes away, the dog won't do the behavior.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in most cases, it's not because the dog is ignoring you, it's because you've leaned on food so much in the training that when it's not present, the dog actually doesn't know what you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the food, the treats are just like that added payment, you know, but as they progress and get better, the food starts to go away.
[SPEAKER_00]: it's like when you're teaching a kid how to write a bike in the very beginning you're like out there cheering and clapping and taking videos but when they're 10 you don't like be weird so it's the same thing for dogs like the food in the beginning is like this good job you're doing good great awesome let's keep going motivated and gauged excited you know getting sticky like
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, as and then you start to fade that out really.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I feel like that's where I'm at.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's not consistent enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm phasing it out, but it's not consistent enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel that it's not consistent enough yet to
[SPEAKER_01]: the completely out, but yeah, and they can see.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the consistency is also on you guys too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's once you get a really trained dog, it's less, you know, you don't have to, you don't, once the dog knows everything, you're good, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like muscle memory, like driving a car, like you don't, like, you know, it's just something you know how to do, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just important for you guys,
[SPEAKER_00]: like you're just out of that puppy stage.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you guys did training heavily six months ago when she was eight months or seven months or whatever and you guys were really into it and doing it a lot and she was almost there but not a hundred percent and then you let off the gas you just have to kind of get back into it and reestablish it you know it's like you take a couple weeks you take a couple weeks off of working out you
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like you're starting from scratch completely, but you're not going to be as sharp as you were when you were like really doing it three or four times a week or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's the same thing for dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like when you're training, it doesn't matter if you're playing soccer or you're lifting weights or you're swimming and dog training, it's the same exact way.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're out there and you're doing it and you're practicing and you're rapping and you're challenging the dog every day,
[SPEAKER_00]: and you're really teaching, and you're in sync, and then you completely just stop doing it, you're gonna have to go back and really really establish things back down to basics and build it back up.
[SPEAKER_02]: In order for that to work, like, so the treat is always a, or is the treat always a company with sort of like the verbal, you know, good job, like, you know, way to go or like, you know, verbal feedback or is it just the treat and then we phase out the treat, how do we do that transition successfully.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the treat is then paired with your verbal payment, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the treat goes away.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for an example, sit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the good sit is something you always have with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I call that internal payment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Internal rewards.
[SPEAKER_00]: It lives inside of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then external payment is food, toys, ball, frisbee.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the external payments start to go away.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you just say sit, good sit.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you pay the dog a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say you
[SPEAKER_00]: three out of the five, the dog would get food.
[SPEAKER_00]: The second session, two out of five, the dog would get food.
[SPEAKER_00]: The third session, one out of five, the dog would get food.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you're associating that verbal voice inflection of good-sit paired with food.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then eventually the food just starts to go away.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the food is, you don't want to lean on that too much because you'll, again, you know, like I said, you'll get into trouble.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: The last thing is, so I had surgery and I was in bed a long time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we did not have a sleeping in our room.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had a crate actually on the first floor where she would sleep.
[SPEAKER_02]: And from the time she was like, from the time we took our home until about maybe two and a half months ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I had surgery and had some complications.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was in bed for six weeks, literally.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so she started to hang out and bed with me and sleep and bed with us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Way to go back from that now or to at least get her to sleep on the ground in our room or in a crate in our room without whining and crying.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, or has the ship sailed and did I screw the food on that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think you can, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can do it right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a matter of, so your real question isn't rather, if you can do it or not, your question is, is how long will it take for her to stop crying and whining?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can get some sleep, is the question?
[SPEAKER_00]: And...
[SPEAKER_00]: And that, because you can, you know, you can always do it, so it's just, you know, it's, it's part of, um, it's a, it's a slippery slope and, and that's why you gotta be careful.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I tell people like if you let your puppy sleep with you and they're gonna be a great day and, you know, you gotta be mindful of that because their brain is the same even now that they're 180 pounds bigger.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think you just have to start the process and you just kind of have to pull the band it off and start doing it and it's just you have to realize that again like no bad dogs right like that's my whole thing is that this is exactly what we're talking about like you put your dog in the crate they start winding and
[SPEAKER_00]: complaining and crying and then you're like, man, but just understand that like that's something that you did.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you just have to, you know, you have to really stick with it and be consistent with it and then eventually it'll, you know, it'll work out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, it's, excuse me, it's really about you guys being consistent, but also I think it's important
[SPEAKER_00]: you you are in control.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like if you need to put her in the other room to sleep, then do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But she's she's a dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: She'll live and just understand that the reason why you have to do that is because of what you know what you did.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, which brings up so so we we don't have kids
[SPEAKER_02]: a couple of days a week so it's just socialized and she does really well in that we want to make sure she's a well adjusted and like dog we don't want to be neurotic in support of having her sleep in a crate on the first floor away from us was trying to make sure that that didn't happen and it worked really well for you know the first up until two months ago when she started singing though that is their
[SPEAKER_02]: If we continue to let her sleep in bed with us, I mean, are we bad dog parents?
[SPEAKER_02]: If we continue to let her sleep in bed with us?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, the bed thing for me is two things.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people let their puppies or younger dogs do this and their life changes in the future.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they, the dog gets bigger, they have two dogs, they get another dog, they have a kid, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's all these things that kind of play a role that you have to be mindful of.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like having a dog is, you know, you have to look at your whole family dynamic and be like, okay, is this sustainable?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we do this next year?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we do this in two years?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I board my dog?
[SPEAKER_00]: without a serious panic attack because of this, you know, this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we travel a lot and so she does board frequently, probably like at least once a month for, you know, a couple nights and she does really well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we found we we interviewed a lot of places, but we found a place that we really like.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so she does board really well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I mean, those are just some issues that I've seen over time as dogs will get really insecure because they, you know, they've only slept with mom and dad and now they're sleeping in a crate in a random place and now there's a bunch of issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: So those are just things to be mindful of, but the answer is no, and the other thing is the second thing is is just having relationship issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you tell your dog to get off and then the dog starts growling and biting you and getting crazy, then those are issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, the furniture thing is not a big deal as long as you can tell your dog to get off outside of you wanting dog hair everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that was it from some music, Jen, was there other things when you Thomas has been really helpful and you're so we we we both have dogs in the past.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been married for 10 years.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not having kids because they're we have great we're great fun on going on and have lots of needs from the net.
[SPEAKER_02]: We got a lot of a year ago and the people we got her from in New Jersey.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, like, hey, here's a video series from a guy who we really think is great.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had studied the monks and had read their books and used them in college when I had my other dogs, but I hadn't had a dog in a long time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we both went back to the monks' teachings and then when the reader is recommended to your podcast and your video series, we found those really helpful.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we kind of podcast episode you did with the monks and I got it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why these both these guys are so,
[SPEAKER_02]: in tune and and resonates so well with us.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this has been a really helpful conversation and just want to say we really appreciate the work you do and the content you put out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: But Jim, did you have anything else you wanted to talk to Tom about?
[SPEAKER_01]: I said another quick question in regards to her interactions with like friends and family and staff.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's still, she's getting much better at not jumping on people, and is that what tool is the best tool for her to rebel for us, for me to use, to just solidify that, the prong collar or the
[SPEAKER_01]: like would it go and say just like I've used the martingale and like she she's definitely getting more consistent but but again I like I've never had a puppy so for me 15 months like is this is this should that behavior should you be able to get that quicker if I you know change the tool that I'm using or is it her age right now and I just will be
[SPEAKER_00]: yeah for the jumping specifically yeah yeah so i would even go back even further a little bit and yes it could be the tool but it's also what you want them to do alternatively so it's it's the tool is important for sure but you just have to be mindful of what i always ask people when they say well i don't my doctor jump on guests or i don't my doctor bark and guess or bark or whatever i just say what do you want them to do
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they say, well, I don't want him to jump.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, okay, well, what's that mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if the dog's natural instinct out of excitement and over stimulation is to rise up and or bark or spin or...
[SPEAKER_00]: whatever is, what do you want them to do?
[SPEAKER_00]: I want them to sit down.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want them to go to their bed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want them to lay down, all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, well, how good are those things?
[SPEAKER_00]: So instead of trying to just stop something, and this is just dog 101.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're gonna apply this to any dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is just what I teach dog trainers to as a core base of like how dog training and how I've been successful,
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to just ask yourself, what do you want them to do alternatively?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then once you find that out, you have to audit how well that is, how well they know it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, perfect example simply is my dog pulls, how's your heel?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we don't know heel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, then you can't complain about pulling.
[SPEAKER_00]: So same thing, when my dog is jumping on people, how good is your off?
[SPEAKER_00]: how good is your send away to an alternative location during the chaos?
[SPEAKER_00]: And if those things don't exist, then it's going to be really difficult.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, then you start talking about tools.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, my dog knows off, they know place, they know down, they know recall.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, the off recall in place will stop any dog from jumping up on people, period.
[SPEAKER_00]: but they teach you your point that there's levels to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they have to know it at an advanced level.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if your Martin Gail isn't, what you can't do, and again, this is what 80% of dog owners will do, is
[SPEAKER_00]: they will have their dog completely off leash and ask their dog to do a behavior they don't know that well and then they fail and then they go hmm wonder why this isn't working so just to give you a more context when we talk about levels of obedience let's just say level one through three is what I use level one is beginner training wheels level three is Yoda off leash
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if we are putting our dogs into an environment that is level three type of environment like MLB and BA and HL like this is the the the fee for world cup right like this is really hard ever like this is a very challenging thing and then we only have level one obedience like you know we're junior high school walking out into a fee for game it doesn't make any sense you're gonna fail
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's why I try to explain to people is you're asking your dog to do something very advanced with very beginner novice skill sets and information.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why you're failing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just so before I answer the question, take that.
[SPEAKER_00]: and just like use that forever in your dog training.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anytime you're having an issue or a question or how do I stop or how do I get this to be better, you really should just put that format into place.
[SPEAKER_00]: How well do I want my dog to do alternatively and how well do they know it?
[SPEAKER_00]: And usually it's like this venn diagram of you kind of resort back to, well this is my fault because my dog doesn't know off, my dog doesn't know recall, my dog doesn't know place in this environment.
[SPEAKER_00]: But to your point, yes, the e-collar, but also using the, like, the e-collars your advanced.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the e-collars your advanced tool, once the dog really understands what you're asking.
[SPEAKER_00]: But furthermore, like, let's say you had people over in an hour, I'd put the Martin Gale or Prong or whatever call you have on.
[SPEAKER_00]: But put her on leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when she goes up to these people, you can immediately correct her when she jumps and when she does something you don't like.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's that's the important piece to this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's I mean, that's helpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: She, I We don't really have that many people come over.
[SPEAKER_01]: because we live out of state from our family and staff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's more out in public, you know, oh, you're dogs so cute, can I pet your dog?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'll have her go to a show set.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I'll say, okay, let's go and she'll go and she'll approach them.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then sometimes the people are like, oh, you're so cute, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it's just getting her to, you know, okay, well, then we leave because then, you know, we'll just snowball into Mayhem because they're excited
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so it's, you know, having her just reminding myself to have her set or, you know, you know, commonly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just advanced obedience.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So think about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's exactly that's exactly the format I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: So advanced.
[SPEAKER_00]: So think about advanced obedience.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, like the best of the best.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like your advanced obedience is your
[SPEAKER_00]: with elephants coming by like your dog listens to you no matter what and the only way you get to that point is when you test and you trial and you test and you trial and you you test and test and you prepare for these things okay so if you haven't prepared for these things like in our facility we do that we have trainers come up oh yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: We do all of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We proof and we proof and we proof, but you haven't done that so that's what I mean is all of this is on you So your dog going up to that person and going through the excitement and all that stuff is just testing like How much have you tested your dog on this stuff?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's exactly what I'm talking about So you're having to leave the environment because you haven't prepared your dog for that test Yeah, so it's still does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, because that's very important.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's very important to know, because I don't want you to think, because a lot of people get frustrated and they say, like, oh, I have to leave this because my dogs, you know, being a jerk, my dog's not listening, but the reality is is your dog has no idea what they're supposed to be doing in this situation at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's, that's the key, because that's where people, that this is that gray area and that defining moment of people
[SPEAKER_00]: You know thinking I'm doing everything I don't understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not working.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did the videos I took the course I talked to Tom online.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not working when the reality is is you have to build up the those skill sets That that was I'm so glad that you said that because that's exactly what I was just talking just Referring to a moment ago, and that's where so many people get really frustrated because They're like, oh, I have to leave or you know, I have to
[SPEAKER_00]: Go home or I have to move away from a situation, but really like those of the like when you go through training I don't know if you you know have a local trainer that you can do group classes or just follow up basic stuff But those are the things you would do or just just go out with your leash and your collar and your food
[SPEAKER_00]: Walk downtown and you'll get everybody to do that every single person is gonna do that every person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you dug so cute Look how old what's up?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so then you go out She jumps off bang good off Same thing and you just keep working on it and that's those especially if you have a dog that's you know Not aggressive or mean or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can go out and work on that for hours if you went out and worked on that for one week every night By the end of the week you'd be done.
[SPEAKER_00]: It'd be over
[SPEAKER_00]: She wouldn't jump.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah easy easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's a that's a one-week board and train I mean, that's we get a lot of work done there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely All right Well, I got lots of homework to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: No problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll do great.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just have to do the homework.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, that's really important.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really important for people to know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I call it the stop at syndrome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody wants to just stop something from happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like, you've got to put in the work.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, how do I stop this?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, you've got to know, you've got to educate yourself about why it's happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: right so anyway sure okay all right thank you yeah you're welcome yeah this was very helpful thank you very much you're welcome guys thanks for signing up and yeah good luck moving forward and yeah good luck I'll talk to you guys next time thank you you may see us up in the update okay sounds good we'll be there all right thank you you're welcome guys bye bye