WEBVTT

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hi everyone.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to Room for Us.

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[SPEAKER_00]: A space where queer voices thrive.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host P and every single week.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I like to sit down, get vulnerable, and talk about all things queer with all of you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you'll see we are in a new setup right now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have talked about this on previous episodes, but my fiance Crystal and I just bought our dream loft in Vancouver.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm kind of like experimenting with where I want to start filming some videos.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I do want to start filming like the decorating process and kind of want to showcase like what our overall design feelings are.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's still feeling pretty bare but we have like implemented some stuff we do love.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So more to come on that and I'm joined by my two cuties, my two babies best of them and so we're just sitting on the couch hanging out because this episode is going to be that kind of feel.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have my laptop out because I have so many notes because for this episode I'm going to be talking about the outward and how iconic that show is, how insanely revolutionary it was for that time but also because of that time there were so many things that were controversial about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to get into all of that because I'm so surprised that for all these years of hosting the podcast and this is obviously a queer podcast, I haven't talked about the L word in depth.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that can also partially be because I only got into the L word a little bit later.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So the L word did premiere in 2004.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I would have been in like grade four, I was nine years old.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't really know anything about it, but I also didn't really get into it when I was in my teens, which is around the time I was really starting to notice things about my sexuality and notice I had a deep attraction for girls.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm surprised I didn't really get into it then.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And remember the first time I tried watching the L word, I was living in Toronto in my apartment in the annex.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I would have been probably 22 and I was trying to stream it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I watched the first two seasons and then I just kind of fell off, but I was really loving it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then most recently, I found that Amazon Prime has all of the episodes available to stream.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I just went down an L word rabbit hole.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I've been so into it and I'm just so grateful that this content exists.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it goes to show that I think the L word truly inspired what other queer media we see now and the different types of representation we see.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because as we start to break down, like the importance of the L word and why, it was so needed for that time, I think like other shows, almost use that as inspiration, especially when they're showcasing like different types of characters and how clearness can look like so many different things, and you don't fit into this one box.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to get into the show's creator, all of the characters, some of the different type of relationship story lines and how significant they were,

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm so excited, so I do suggest, you know, there's going to be spoilers ahead in this whole podcast episode.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So if you haven't seen the L word at all, maybe check it out, check out a few episodes, familiarize yourself with these characters.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it would be fun to get into this episode together as we discuss how important this piece of content was.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So the show would not have even started without its creator and writer.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So Eileen Shaken is an American television producer, director, writer, and founder of Little Chicken Productions.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Shaken was the co-creator writer and executive producer on the TV series The Alward.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She can co-create the alward in 2004 with Michelle Abbott and Kathy Greenberg inspired largely by her own experiences as a lesbian.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Her first romance with another woman, which ended in heartbreak when the woman revealed she had a long distance girlfriend, served as loose inspiration for the relationship of the character's marina fairy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and Jenny Shector.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're going back to when the L-word premiered.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's 2004 and this was a time when lesbian characters were often just seen in like the side plot of a story they were never the main storyline.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But the L-word actually put queer women at the center of the narrative.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For the first time audiences were invited into a world where lesbians weren't just supporting characters in someone else's story.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They were the main characters with complex friendships, careers, relationships, different ambitions, flaws, and desires.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And what made the show so groundbreaking was that it allowed queer women to exist beyond their sexuality.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It showed the full spectrum of just life experiences.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The joy, the heartbreak, and especially in queer community, like your chosen family, that is so important, identity journeys, and the complicated realities of navigating a world that wasn't always built for you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it gave viewers a chance to see themselves, represented in a way that mainstream media was not really offering.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So for many LGBTQ plus people, especially those growing up in smaller communities or before social media, made queer connection more accessible, the L word became a window into a world they didn't know existed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It created a sense of possibility and a reminder that there was a larger queer community out there waiting to be found.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And as I mentioned in the beginning, this show came out in 2004, so it wasn't perfect by any means.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It has been rightfully critiqued for its lack of racial diversity, certain stereotypes, and for often focusing on a very specific privileged version of lesbian life.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But the impact of the outward cannot be denied even as I've been rewatching this recently,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I am just so grateful to have this and to like only wish I got into it when I was a little bit younger because I feel like that would have made so much of a difference for me to be seeing these types of characters represented in mainstream media so like to see

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[SPEAKER_00]: in 2004.

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[SPEAKER_00]: A group of queer women living openly, they're loving freely and they're taking up space on television was a radical act and honestly I think it was one of the number one shows on show time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It helped normalize lesbian storylines and paved the way for more queer representation and gave countless queer people a piece of media that said your story's matter and that

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[SPEAKER_00]: We have to talk about the women who made the show what it was.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The series followed a group of friends navigating life in West Hollywood, and they each brought this different perspective on identity and relationships and community.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to start with Jenny Shector.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Jenny Shector is the audience's entry point into this world.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's a young writer who moves to Los Angeles with her boyfriend Tim, but her life begins to shift when she's introduced to the queer community next door, aka her neighbor's Bettina.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Jenny's journey becomes one of self-discovery, as she begins questioning the life she thought she wanted and she starts exploring her identity.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What I do appreciate about all of these characters is that they are not one-dimensional.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They're all so human-like that I think we can see ourselves in each and every one of them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, to be human does come with flaws.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and with Jenny, as much as she seems to be this like protagonist in the beginning, her character immediately becomes quite disliked among the audience.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She evolved from this like naive newcomer into a deeply narcissistic, manipulative and kind of a chaotic person who is seen betraying her friends,

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[SPEAKER_00]: line constantly and she partakes in some like very, very shocking acts and I won't get into too much detail because I think like you need to watch the seasons to see what she does but it's almost like her character really really takes a turn from what you see in season one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Of course we have the iconic bet porter who's played by Jennifer Beals and I believe Jennifer Beals was the first actor to be signed on to the outward.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So she really is kind of like the

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[SPEAKER_00]: face of the outward I would say in terms of the characters.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That is the powerhouse of the group.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's a successful art curator, very ambitious, passionate, and someone who carries herself with confidence.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And her relationship with Tina is one of the central love stories of this series.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And through Bet, we see conversations around commitment, family, career, and also the pressures placed on queer women to build lives that challenge traditional expectations.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, like Bet does come with flaws.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Some viewers dislike Bet because of her controlling behavior, her arrogance, and very, very frequent infidelity.

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[SPEAKER_00]: While she is charismatic and driven, her toxic treatment of partners, can sometimes make you question her character.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then we have Tina.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Tina is bets partner at the beginning of the series, and together they represent one of television's earliest portrayals of a long-term lesbian relationship.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Tina kind of brings in that softer grounded perspective, compared to bets intensity.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But then again, viewers kind of perceived Tina's characters quite boring.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think the writers as they were writing, Tina, I feel like they may have boxed her into more of this like passive role.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I do feel like the audience tends to turn on Tina a little bit, especially in season 4, when she's kind of going through this like Henry era, and it's not because she's dating a man.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like that is not the reason I think people started to sliker, but she's kind of flaunting this like traditional heterosexual family dynamic when she's with Henry, and through this like she's expressing low key microaggressions toward the lesbian community.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's also a very passive aggressive type of character.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So when, you know, Bet frequently cheats on Tina throughout this fans kind of felt instead of directly communicating with Bet, she would kind of use her pregnancy and her relationship with Helena Peabody, which was in season one, she was kind of using this to hurt Bet when Bet cheated.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And there is a bit of a lack of background up with Tina.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Unlike other characters, the show rarely explored her family history or her personal lore, which left her feeling more like a one-dimensional character compared to the others.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh man, and then we have Shane McCutchen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Shane is definitely one of the most iconic characters on the show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She has this effortless confidence and drawgeness style, and definitely the reputation as like the heartbreaker of the group.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Shane challenged traditional ideas of what femininity and lesbian identity could look like on television,

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[SPEAKER_00]: and she was a character many viewers had never seen represented before, someone who existed outside the conventional expectations.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Shane does have a lot of laws.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You'll be quick to notice the commitment, phobia that Shane has, starting as early as season one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Shane is criticized for repeatedly cheating and running away from healthy relationships and there's also a lack of real accountability there and I feel like this was frustrating to viewers who feel she never faces real consequences for leaving partners.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and most famously abandoning Carmen at the altar, and I'm going to get into this later into the episode.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's also the F boy trope, which I feel like is a little bit overdone.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of this over-romanticized thing, where I think people might see that in chain and find it very attractive, but I also think from a writer's perspective, it can almost be like, okay, this is a little much.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We don't love this about this character.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then we have another main character,

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like most people really love Alice.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Alice is definitely the group's funny curious and often chaotic best friend.

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[SPEAKER_00]: As a bisexual woman, she brought a different perspective to the series and challenged the way sexuality was often portrayed, a strictly black and white, especially during that time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She creates the chart, which is a visual map of everyone's connections, and this definitely became one of the most memorable symbols of the shows,

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[SPEAKER_00]: playful take on queer dating and community.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember hearing in an interview, the show creator Eileen Shaken said this was actually created in the writer's room.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was like she had noticed people on her team.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There were a lot of queer women who were writing and they had all realized they were kind of connected to each other in some way so they made this chart.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Although Alice is of course a fan favorite, there are still flaws in Alice.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There is a little bit of bifobia and gatekeeping.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Critics heavily dislike how Alice treats bisexual and trans characters.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In early season, she famously invalidates bisexual people by calling bisexuality a pit stop on the way to gay town, despite later dating a man herself.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes outing people, viewers find her journalistic at the Ex-Highly Problematic.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She frequently outs people on her radio show and website, kind of weaponizing that gossip and private information for cloud and entertainment.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's also some boundary crossing, fans kind of call her out for like being intrusive in self-absorbed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Her creation of the chart, which tracks the community sexual history, often crosses major privacy lines without her friends consent.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was actually really shocked, rewatching some of season two, like the toxicity in Alice towards her relationships.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Her reaction to her breakup with Dana in season two turns very, very toxic that I don't know if people talk about it as much, but Alice is showing this very erratic behavior.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She begins stalking Dana and Dana's new partner and isn't afraid of some public confrontations.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was actually like pretty wild to see.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And speaking of Dana,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Dana Fairbanks is a professional tennis player who begins the series as someone's still navigating, being publicly out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Her storyline explores the fear and pressure in many queer people face when their personal identity intersects with their public life, and Dana's journey becomes one of the show's most emotional and impactful arcs.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This storyline was so so.

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[SPEAKER_00]: tragic.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Eileen shaken faced a lot of backlash for the decision on this, but Dana's character unfortunately passes away from breast cancer in season three.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that was very shocking.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was very tragic.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think a lot of people expected that was going to happen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then we have Kip Porter, who's played by the iconic Pam Greer.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So Kit is Betts half-sister and one of the few major straight characters in the core group.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's a form in musician, struggling with addiction and rebuilding her life.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But with this, Kit definitely brings a different perspective to the show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Her relationship with Bett also explores family acceptance and what it means to support someone who's experiences are different from your own.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And while Kit is actually generally regarded as this warm maternal anchor of the group,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Some people don't really love how she was when she was handling Max's transition and I'm going to get into this because this is a whole story line.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I actually think a lot of the criticisms and I've seen this on Reddit, it actually comes down to maybe like the writer's choices and what they did with kids character are here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The L word was a cultural breakthrough, like no doubt about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It gave lesbian characters visibility in a way mainstream television never had before, but it also faced criticism for who it included, who had excluded, and how it portrayed certain identities.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The lack of diversity.

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[SPEAKER_00]: One of the biggest criticisms of the L word was that it presented a very narrow version of lesbian life.

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[SPEAKER_00]: While the show was groundbreaking for putting queer women at the center,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Many viewers pointed out that the core group was overwhelmingly white, conventionally attractive, wealthy, and often removed from the reality's many queer people experienced.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For a show claiming to represent a community, many people felt it did not reflect the full diversity of the community.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Just particularly when it came to race, class,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Body diversity, disability, and different cultural experiences of queerness.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The show did introduce characters from different backgrounds, but critics argued that many of those characters are not given the same depth, complexity, or importance in the main cast.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I will get into this a little bit more, but I did kind of feel that as I was rewatching some of these episodes and seeing the treatment toward Max and how you can tell Max definitely came from a different background was not as wealthy as the main core group and you could kind of see how their reactions were to this new person who came into the group.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There was some major criticism too, around the L word, which was created during a time when lesbian representation was often filtered to a very heterosexual male audience.

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[SPEAKER_00]: While the show definitely celebrated queer women's sexuality, some viewers felt that certain intimate scenes were designed more for the fantasy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: of straight male viewers, then for authentic lesbian storytelling.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The show's frequent focus on sex and the lesbian dating scene was exciting for some viewers because it definitely showed queer desire openly.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that was something you were not seeing on television.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But others also felt that sometimes it reduced lesbian relationships to some things that are a little more performative.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hatsupods because my cats are actually having my cats are literally wrestling on the couch.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So for this section of the episode, I'm going to talk about trans representation and the max we need storyline.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So in season three, one of the most criticized aspects of the L word was its portrayal of transgender identity through max we need played by Daniel C. So Jenny first meets Moira who transitions from female to male then goes by max in the midwest when she goes back home.

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[SPEAKER_00]: When the two of them go back to LA, you do notice instantly that Max has a hard time fitting in which any friends.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Many viewers hoped the show would expand its LGBTQ plus representation, but the storyline received backlash from trans viewers who felt Max was often portrayed through conflict, discomfort, and misunderstanding, rather than being treated with the same nuance as the show's cisgender queer characters.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Some fans also criticize the reactions of beloved characters like Alice, arguing that the show allowed characters to express views that reflected transphobic attitudes without always challenging them enough.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The criticism was definitely not that the outward included a trans character.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that was so important and I

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[SPEAKER_00]: do understand where Eileen was trying to come from by introducing the storyline, but I think some people may be felt that that storyline was created from a perspective that lacked authentic trans voices.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So for example, the main group of female characters routinely misgendered, mocked, and invalidated Max, treating his gender identity as a joke or a phase.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There was also something about testosterone rage, the writing relied on harmful tropes, framing Max's medical transition and use of testosterone as the cause of erratic aggressive behavior, often called testosterone rage.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There was also the pregnancy plot line.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Max's later pregnancy storyline was written in React-2 by other characters in a way that many viewers and critics found deeply invasive, invalidating and uttering to trans men.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There was also the erasure of Ivan, a trans man introduced as a love interest for Kip Porter, was infamously unmasked and scrutinized by characters to prove he isn't really a man, resulting in his abrupt erasure from the show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Also the no men allowed criticism.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The show also received some

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[SPEAKER_00]: While the series was meant to center lesbian experiences, some viewers felt it occasionally treated masculinity including trans masculinity as something threatening or incompatible with queer womanhood.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And this became especially complicated because many queer communities include people with a wide range of gender expressions, and viewers felt the show sometimes reinforced a narrow idea of what a lesbian could look like.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Then we have the Jenny Shector backlash.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So few characters in television history haven't inspired as much debate as Jenny Shector.

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[SPEAKER_00]: While her storyline represented the messy reality of discovering your sexuality, many viewers found her frustrating selfish or disconnected from the community she entered.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Some queer viewers appreciated that Jenny showed coming out as complicated and imperfect.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But others felt that making a confused, newly discovering character, the audience's gateway until lesbian culture placed too much focus on someone entering the community rather than the people who were already there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And now we have to get into Shane and Carmen's relationship.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So

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[SPEAKER_00]: We meet Carmen in season two, and Carmen was definitely a character for me that I resonated with the most.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I really loved her personally.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I felt like her style was very much fitting for what I was into, and she was also a DJ, just a very, very cool character, and she is a very significant relationship for Shane.

20:57.018 --> 21:02.659
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a huge heartbreak and upsetting situation that happens between Shane and Carmen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mentioned this in the intro of the episode, but Shane ends up leaving Carmen at the altar in the season three finale.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It is one of the most painful and controversial moments in the entire series.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Viewers were very, very angry at Shane for abandoning a woman who loved her so fiercely, especially after a season of immense personal growth.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And also with Shane bonding with

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[SPEAKER_00]: Many fans directed their anger at the show creator, Eileen Shaken, and the writing team.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because the actor Sarah Shahi who played Carmen only had a two-year contract, the writers had to write her off.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But fans felt like destroying the relationship so brutally was almost like a lazy way to force her exit.

21:45.939 --> 21:57.790
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's also a bit of changing perspectives as I was like diving into Reddit a little bit more while Shane and Carmen, aka Sharmin, was widely beloved during the original mid-2000s airing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The fandom's perspective has significantly shifted over time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's some modern discussions on platforms like Reddit that show that many fans now actually saw their relationship as highly toxic.

22:09.881 --> 22:22.005
[SPEAKER_00]: In the beginning of their relationship, viewers actually didn't really love that Carmen started initially dating and hooking up with Jenny just to stay close and manipulate Shane because at that time Shane didn't want a relationship with Carmen.

22:22.786 --> 22:32.169
[SPEAKER_00]: There was also some boundary crossing, so Carmen frequently ignored Shane's explicit boundaries pushing her into a serious commitment when Shane openly admitted she wasn't ready.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's some transphobia comments here too.

22:35.490 --> 22:44.976
[SPEAKER_00]: fans were heavily criticizing Carmen for being incredibly cruel, dismissive, and transphobic toward Max when he'd be in transitioning, and there was mutual toxicity.

22:45.056 --> 22:58.384
[SPEAKER_00]: So the relationship was riddled with explosive jealousy between Shane and Carmen leading to instances where it was just going down a road that was not going to be healthy.

22:59.504 --> 23:24.259
[SPEAKER_00]: Carmen finds out Shane cheats on her with Sherry Jaffee, and then Carmen ultimately tells Shane she cheated on her when she found that information out, but I think because Shane is such a main character and people are following her through all six seasons, over time viewers kind of develop more of this empathy, and maybe understand a little bit more why Shane ran away, not to say it's right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But the night before the wedding, Shane had caught her estranged father cheating on his wife.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He had justified it to Shane by saying it's just who I am.

23:34.904 --> 23:36.324
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you know what I'm talking about.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then people kind of put two and two together.

23:39.546 --> 23:45.028
[SPEAKER_00]: That Shane panicked believing she was kind of genetically broken and she would probably always do this.

23:45.128 --> 23:47.930
[SPEAKER_00]: Be someone who will inevitably cheat on her partner.

23:48.570 --> 23:51.591
[SPEAKER_00]: And she figured she was going to do that to Carmen anyway and that would

23:53.452 --> 24:01.336
[SPEAKER_00]: So, leaving Carmen at the altar was almost this like deeply warped and traumatic attempt to protect Carmen from Shane.

24:01.716 --> 24:11.141
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I know I got into a lot of the controversies around the outward and maybe what went wrong in creative decision making or the writing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And...

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[SPEAKER_00]: that is not to come from like a dark place of criticism.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I also think that is what makes the show what it is.

24:19.584 --> 24:21.205
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, it's a beautiful show.

24:21.365 --> 24:25.026
[SPEAKER_00]: It's these incredible storylines and it ran for five years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You get so connected to these characters.

24:27.147 --> 24:35.030
[SPEAKER_00]: So even as I'm recognizing these things that maybe weren't the best calls, I also think that's what makes the show what it is.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Eileen Shaken can even recognize that herself, and maybe even look at pastory lines and kind of think, I understand why it did that then.

24:43.733 --> 24:46.134
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder what I would do differently now in 2026.

24:46.294 --> 24:51.897
[SPEAKER_00]: I really want to get into what did the Alward do right, because it also did so much right for the queer community.

24:52.157 --> 24:54.938
[SPEAKER_00]: It really defined queer community and culture.

24:55.738 --> 24:58.161
[SPEAKER_00]: It showcased the power of chosen family.

24:58.462 --> 25:08.995
[SPEAKER_00]: It really beautifully captured how vital a chosen family is for queer people, showing a tight knit support system that stepped in when biological families can often fail.

25:09.396 --> 25:13.241
[SPEAKER_00]: It also kind of captured lesbian subculture in the most hilarious way.

25:13.802 --> 25:23.213
[SPEAKER_00]: with this chart, you know, the complex web of who hooked up with whom to the dynamics of running a queer-owned community space like the planet.

25:23.714 --> 25:32.024
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have always dreamed of living in a city where there was like my go-to queer coffee shop or event space.

25:32.624 --> 25:37.245
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've since moved to a little bit more of like a queer-focused neighborhood in Vancouver.

25:37.265 --> 25:51.008
[SPEAKER_00]: I live in Mount Pleasant and I love the neighborhood so far, it's so fun and I would love to find a space kind of similar to the planet where I can go to every day and kind of like you see your people and you feel very seen.

25:51.468 --> 25:53.348
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's something so endearing about it.

25:53.869 --> 26:00.390
[SPEAKER_00]: We get introduced to the planet in season one and we find out one of the characters who's a lesbian, Marina owns this

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the characters are basically going there every day.

26:04.131 --> 26:07.993
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going there for coffee, for breakfast, before work, it's kind of like their safe space.

26:08.313 --> 26:11.615
[SPEAKER_00]: And having safe queer spaces is so, so important.

26:12.015 --> 26:18.658
[SPEAKER_00]: Throughout the L word as much as it's about romantic relationships, there is just this iconic theme of friendship.

26:19.718 --> 26:21.759
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, they go through so much.

26:22.120 --> 26:24.822
[SPEAKER_00]: The script of friends and at times they can get very toxic.

26:24.862 --> 26:39.091
[SPEAKER_00]: It gets very dramatic, but there is still such a core dynamic between characters like Shane and Alice and Dana, Bettina, like that whole group.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like they

26:40.532 --> 26:42.894
[SPEAKER_00]: remain the emotional anchor of the series.

26:43.434 --> 27:01.126
[SPEAKER_00]: I also do appreciate how we've kind of moved past that like sad queer trope that you often see in a lot of queer storylines when it comes to TV shows before the L word most lesbian representation and media was tragic to pressing and you would see that kind of story a lot.

27:02.006 --> 27:08.768
[SPEAKER_00]: But this show deliberately made its characters very glamorous, very fashionable, wealthy, and very highly desirable.

27:09.329 --> 27:14.190
[SPEAKER_00]: I would almost say it was like that equivalent of like the gay sex in the city, in the way.

27:14.230 --> 27:23.994
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, as I'm watching the outward, that is kind of what some of these characters mean to me, especially when you see these very glamorous, like high profile people like Beth Porter.

27:24.574 --> 27:27.578
[SPEAKER_00]: It also did a good job of pioneering on some social issues.

27:27.958 --> 27:39.951
[SPEAKER_00]: The Don't Ask Don't Tell Storyline through Tasha Williams, the show powerfully and accurately critiqued the military's homophobic policies, putting a human face on a major political issue of the era.

27:40.872 --> 27:48.235
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know things weren't always done so right with the trans storyline here, but they did still showcase that representation.

27:48.975 --> 28:01.420
[SPEAKER_00]: And while Max's storyline is heavily criticized, I think the Elward was so ahead of its time by introducing a regular transgender male character to a premium cable drama in 2006.

28:02.440 --> 28:04.620
[SPEAKER_00]: It also shows the realities of queer parenting.

28:04.640 --> 28:11.122
[SPEAKER_00]: There's this whole custody battle adoption issue between Bet and Tina when they're separated.

28:11.182 --> 28:15.863
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I think it begins in season three or season two, I have to double check.

28:16.003 --> 28:26.265
[SPEAKER_00]: But this show tackles the complex expensive and legally frustrating hurdles of queer family planning, including sperm donors, miscarriages, and second parent adoption rights.

28:26.685 --> 28:33.487
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the reason the L word remains so fascinating is because it does exist in contradiction.

28:33.667 --> 28:39.069
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a show that changed lives, especially for queer women who had never seen themselves represented on the big screen.

28:39.549 --> 28:43.910
[SPEAKER_00]: But it also reflected the limitations of the era in which it was created.

28:44.491 --> 28:54.454
[SPEAKER_00]: It gave lesbian stories a mainstream platform, but it also raised important questions about who gets represented or who gets centered and what authentic queer storytelling should

28:55.254 --> 29:04.080
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what makes the elbow so iconic is that it wasn't perfect, but it is a legacy that has started conversations that television had never been brave enough to have before.

29:04.781 --> 29:10.985
[SPEAKER_00]: And looking into Eileen Shaken's background and seeing how she really pushed for this to add on air.

29:11.606 --> 29:12.306
[SPEAKER_00]: It's incredible.

29:12.706 --> 29:22.153
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think show time initially wanted to run this show, but I think Eileen had seen how popular the show queer as folk became, and I think that show centered a little bit more around gay men.

29:22.553 --> 29:26.476
[SPEAKER_00]: But I lean said, why not put lesbians at the front and center?

29:27.116 --> 29:29.097
[SPEAKER_00]: And look how popular it became.

29:29.218 --> 29:35.422
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure it got renewed for a second season after the first initial episode or first couple episodes had aired.

29:35.502 --> 29:37.403
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is actually very rare to see sometimes.

29:37.743 --> 29:59.538
[SPEAKER_00]: But with that, I am going to wrap up this episode there, I know there's probably so much more to get into when it comes to the outward and let me know if maybe there's like a particular season you want me to break down a little bit more but this was just the overall legacy of the show and thank you so much to creators like Eileen Shaken who made this world possible for the queer community.

29:59.558 --> 30:01.660
[SPEAKER_00]: I will forever be grateful for it.

30:02.220 --> 30:10.082
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm curious, is there a show right now or a movie that kind of depicts the similar feeling to the outward?

30:10.162 --> 30:15.663
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to know, like, I know we have Gen Q and maybe I'll do a whole episode on what the outward generation Q did.

30:16.143 --> 30:22.284
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that was more of like a politically correct version as that came out in 2019.

30:22.764 --> 30:26.065
[SPEAKER_00]: So the times were obviously very different compared to 2004.

30:26.205 --> 30:30.386
[SPEAKER_00]: But I would love to do a deeper dive into that and kind of see how we're all feeling.

30:31.146 --> 30:50.942
[SPEAKER_00]: What gen Q did right, what gen Q did wrong, and I think there might be a potential reboot of the L word That is now going to be taking place in New York instead of Los Angeles So that'll be really interesting to see if that actually does take off But with that, I'm gonna end the episode here, but thank you so much for tuning in and I will see you all next week