[SPEAKER_00]: The survivor specialists are back and today I am joined once again by West from Wants Pond and Island as we are discussing winning survivor today.
[SPEAKER_00]: We get into the new era.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are going into uncharted territory here West when we went all the way back when we did this after season 40.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, covered the first 40 seasons, but obviously we couldn't cover seasons 41 through 45.
[SPEAKER_00]: So tonight we are going to be talking about Erica Marion, Gabor, Jam Jam and D. Those are going to be the five winners that we are discussing tonight as we discussed.
[SPEAKER_00]: What it actually is all about to win survivor in the new era.
[SPEAKER_00]: I always like to make the comparisons of can you win is it a replicable game all those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we're into what survivor truly is so we can have this discussion right now west welcome back welcome to episode number nine we are almost done with this series yeah yep we're going through the new era today and then tomorrow morning we're just going to knock out the rest of the new era so
[SPEAKER_01]: By the end of the week, all 10 parts will be done.
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometime in August, I'll have them combined into one like super podcast, right, but I'm going to listen to.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you listen to them in parts, because I will be editing them down.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you listen to the uncensored version, like they used to do with the DVDs, like the uncensored version, that's listed it here, but I'll end up cutting them down and putting them into one on my channel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Next month for those who want to just have like one play.
[SPEAKER_01]: So
[SPEAKER_01]: Just let everybody know.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be done this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, we're talking about Erica first.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I'm going to get your opinion a little bit because on the new era.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I've heard that they were, it was this site, okay, so I don't know how much I believe this, but it was decided apparently on the island that they're cutting it down to 26 days, like it wasn't decided in advance of them going to Fiji.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this true?
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you heard about this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so here's what that could mean in two different ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I believe that some of the production team might have been out there when they decided it was going to 26 days?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the cast out there yet?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, there's no shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I heard and I think I don't want to like say it's this person and then I'm wrong because it has been a while So I've listened to post 41 podcasts, but I believe Tiffany said that she thought when they were out there They were still deciding how many days and I'm like really like during with 14 days Liam to season they were deciding I think they knew it was less than 39 but I think they were deciding whether to do 20 like the number of days Still is what Tiffany said when she was out there during during quarantine But I don't I don't know if I I don't know which I
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not that I don't believe Tiffany, I don't know how much I believe most decisions were made by them, but then again, you know, they're like we're on a tight schedule and they maybe they're doing stuff last minute, I have no idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: The reason why I don't think that that can be true is because they filmed these back to back and there's barely any time in between seasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if there's barely any time in between seasons, that means that they already know.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have two orders.
[SPEAKER_00]: They know that they're not keeping the crew out there for 78 days.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're only going to be out there for 52 days I mean that's that's why I believe they already knew maybe Tiffany didn't know until they actually were out there or something Yeah, I think that it was well-known amongst production that it was going to be 26 days and you can probably go back and even check that I almost came to you date right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 41 and 42 are separated by filming filming separated by six days Yes, so there's no way this is up in here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they finished 41 in May 10
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they filmed, they started filming 42 and May 16th.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, there's no time.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's less time than they had between 49 and 50.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think my, I've already decided.
[SPEAKER_00]: That might be the shortest gap in between seasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that probably is to do with COVID because all the restrictions and stuff that we're still in place, especially out there in in Fiji and everything and with international travel.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I bet you that's what it was of like we got to get the season rolling because we can't let COVID impact anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the rush nature is certainly felt in 4142.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really like me or anything in all that much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Erica's win.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wes, this was one of my more controversial ones because I always just throw Eric in your the bottom and say, I don't care.
[SPEAKER_00]: Her game wasn't there.
[SPEAKER_00]: She barely plays it.
[SPEAKER_00]: She gets the hour glass.
[SPEAKER_00]: She hits that this season is pure lock and random and all this other nonsense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, she has a good final tribal, but I feel like there was an agenda against the Sean at that final tribal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really like Eric's game.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I hear all these interviews I've done and I interviewed Zander and Evie and all these different people after this season ended.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people say, no, Erica was playing this great game.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what was going on behind the scenes.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what you're not seeing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of fans have kind of run with that information.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying that information is wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you also have to remember, these are players who actually played with her, who are saying, well, here's the great moments they didn't show.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could do that about almost any winner.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a lot of cast don't have to do that about their winner.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's probably stuff behind the scenes that's also happening there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like what happens is people are taking because Eric is at it was nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're taking that nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then people are going based on what they hear and being like, oh, she was amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, no, I think it brings her up mortal like fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas there's other winners, like you could probably say Tony from Kagan, after you hear everybody talk about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: If he's already had a great game and then you start hearing about all the things he did behind the scenes, like everybody, every winner did stuff that's not shown, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just think it gets over valued in this community based on Erica just because I think people want to believe that Erica's game is this like incredible awesome game.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really just to me, it's very bland.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very basic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it also is on a season where they were throwing so much crap at the wall.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to even really know how to rank a lot of these winners and that's pretty much how I feel with the new era in general, maybe with the exception of one or two.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe that this is a season that would have benefited a lot from 90 main episodes, and that's not for every season, because I think 40 and 49 suffered because of long rep sods.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think 41 were to really benefit because as you said, there was they were trying so much and they had
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, restrictor, no filter.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the word is for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was like no self control, maybe, on how much they should do.
[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't like limited.
[SPEAKER_01]: It felt like it was every episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's something, and it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: during 42 min episodes, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, Erica wasn't even, I didn't know what Erica was until episode four, when they were like, oh, we're throwing this challenge guy, Erica, and all of a sudden, reading a challenge where people hire and having to fashionals in the middle of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And not like, in token chains, where it's like, Tyson making fun of coach for pretending he's professional throwing sandbags or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's clearly just a joke on coach.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is like, oh, no, this is like winner at itself.
[SPEAKER_01]: but then she just disappears for a couple of episodes so the hourglass we're obviously she's required to have screen time like it's hard to give her winner credit like winner and it credit because she was required rock Troy was required as well not a winner um and 42 and so it's like you really didn't feel like aircon storytelling off until
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the Shan episode, which I believe is up to 10, where it's like Erica's now an actual player in the game that the edit's interesting telling us about, but for nine episodes, they were really not interested aside from when they were required to or that one time during a childhood to pretend they were going to throw and they didn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then see your stop there for throwing the challenge like it was just it was a baffling storytelling we talked about this, especially in the past.
[SPEAKER_01]: a couple of areas, I don't know how you want to split the areas, but during like our 30 through 40, it's like women's stories, they just sort of not, I mean it's been pre-existing, they have not been as interested in telling us men's stories when it comes to winners.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's especially apparent here, and this is the last straw for survivor and how they went at it winners.
[SPEAKER_01]: From then, after this, they will no longer ever stunk a winner from 42 through 50.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's that's the big tell is my microphone sound good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to make sure I heard you sound good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, good.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the big tell nowadays.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Erica had three of the first five episodes where she didn't have a confessional and that is always the thing that I go to and if you listen to my podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Apologies, but when I do a recap or do a predictions of power rankings or any of that stuff, I'm going to discuss who has confessional and who doesn't people say well you're overlooking into it not anymore because from season 42 to 50 if you get a zero you do not win we we've seen that so re devins Joe hunter in 48
[SPEAKER_00]: Like all of these things are actual tells from the editors because ever since Erica that's been the case and I think it's it there and say we don't do that on purpose.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you do.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not doing it on accident show to us what you did when you didn't do it on purpose.
[SPEAKER_00]: Erica is the last supremely under edited winner.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now what's interesting about Erica.
[SPEAKER_00]: She still ends up with 39 confessionals 13 of those are in the finale.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is a trend, by the way, if you go back and look at winner at it, confessional numbers, like that's a trend where it's like, oh, all of a sudden a third of the confessional is around the finale.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we got to make you feel good at the end of this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't care for the prior 12 episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: This episode we care all of sudden.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very similar to Vesepia, but the difference is, and I ranked Vesepia as 10.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was my personal ranking, how to write 10, the specials ranking put her at 20.
[SPEAKER_00]: And people will be like, how can you put Vesepia there?
[SPEAKER_00]: If other people who play to similar game, you have so low.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because Vesepia was the first person to ever overcome a deficit at the murder.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was down seven to two.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I know she's not the only person that swaps that makes it so that her numbers have the advantage, but then she's outnumbered three to two at the end and she wins caught some unities.
[SPEAKER_00]: She makes the right deal with Nalia at the very end and she ends up getting the win.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the Sepia has enough moves, her edits very small, most of it takes place in the finale, but the other thing about old school seasons is, professionals didn't matter all that much because people were getting so much screen time outside of
[SPEAKER_00]: So you got to know these people based on what they were doing, what were they eating, who was fishing, who was talking about what, but you were hearing more of conversations like Western I would have, rather than, oh, now it's West's turn to talk to you, the audience.
[SPEAKER_00]: It would mean West and I have a conversation and that's how they would build character.
[SPEAKER_00]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: with Erica's game through the first five episodes she has four confessionals.
[SPEAKER_00]: She gets five in the episode with the hourglass, and then she doesn't have another episode over three confessionals until episode 12, which is the one before the finale.
[SPEAKER_00]: And by that point, we're down to six people anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what frustrates me about Erica's.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I understand that people say, well, she's still can play a good game.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she can.
[SPEAKER_00]: She won the survivor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I understand that she wins 701, but I'm watching the show that they're putting in front of me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can fill in gaps with some of these winners, like the Sepia, you can fill in the gaps.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bob Crowley, you can kind of fill in the gaps.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't fill in the gaps with Erica, and I can't fill in the gaps with Natalie White.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, Erica's game generally ranks low for me, but it could go down as the...
[SPEAKER_00]: the poster for how to win new era, play an under the radar quiet game and you have a better chance of winning survivor than anybody else.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is another one of those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to throw a challenge to get rid of America.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're believing that, oh, they're going to get rid of America.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Danny into Sean Bull said Sidney was actually going to be the person who's going to be voted out in that episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, when you go forward and you're looking at this,
[SPEAKER_00]: Erica, I know that Erica isn't the actual biggest director, because then when the merge comes, she's not getting votes, people aren't actually looking at her.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's just awesome energy from the hourglass.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I'm talking as we go further into the market.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, now let's get rid of Erica.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like if she was still seen as such a big threat such a big, you know, chance to win, they would still be throwing votes in her even though she's small and not the strongest, whatever, so I feel like the edit did its best to make her seem like a bigger threat than she actually was, I think that she plays an insanely under the radar game and she's rewarded for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: what the new era is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It sets the stage.
[SPEAKER_00]: It sets the tone for the new era of play the quietest game.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, see you're probably gonna win.
[SPEAKER_01]: Avoid the nonsense, avoid the nonsense.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's really the new era.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jeff wants everyone to embrace the nonsense and have fun with it, but really, if you want to win a million dollars, it's avoid the nonsense.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's really the consistent trend with most of these winners.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we have one winner who I would say embracing the nonsense helped them and that may have been Rachel.
[SPEAKER_01]: But other than Rachel, I can't, they'll top my head, it doesn't, like, especially Erica.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that were glass helpter, don't be wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: But she never choice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, she didn't want that.
[SPEAKER_01]: She didn't want it to go to the exile island.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a couple of other things to mention here is that the show has forgotten its own history, the season, which is incredible that they could do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: They forgot, and that they've never given that they've done seasons where players haven't gotten rice, which I know we talked about previously, but it's like, this is the beginning of that, like, it's like the shows like it's a new era, but also we want to reference the past, even though we're trying to drop the four, keep the one, but we keep referencing the past and doing so, we've also forgotten the past, so it's like, it's conflicting messages, they did not, despite having a year and a half, they did not come in prepared, is what it felt like, which is crazy, considering they had a year and a half to play in the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: which they've never had for any other season.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, this is the one they dropped up, the ball the hardest on was 41 people were hyped coming to this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Netflix had survivors' seasons on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Winners of war left people on a high for a year and a half.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it were reflected in the interest of survivor, especially in my videos.
[SPEAKER_01]: The views were there because of Winners of War was left people such a high.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then 41 happens like took only a couple of such people got no this is why and then to this day people still reference the come on in guys people still reference that as a turning point for them here we are what five years later and it's still being brought up I don't bring I don't bring it up, but like I'll be like hey what are some like jaw-dropping moments or where some like big mistake moments or you know something like that it's like come on in guys coming in guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to bring up too because like, you know, Alexa and I were doing the podcast and we were, you know, we were at a really high high just like you coming out of 40 like everybody was at a super high high and then obviously COVID hit that changes things so to put this into perspective.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our cast assessment for that season had 93 hundred views.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our episode one recap had 6700, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: So not insane numbers, but that's, you know, better than what we did for the majority of the new era.
[SPEAKER_00]: By the end of that season, our episode, our pre finale, so what is that episode 12 recap had 4700.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we were dropping significantly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our Zander tell log out a lot, but that's because everybody was just really, really excited to hear what Zander had to say.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then by the time season 42 rolled around, I mean, some of it might have been on Alexa and I being more negative about the show and everything like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But by the time season 42 rolled around, all of a sudden, that premier,
[SPEAKER_00]: recap that we had 10,000 views on the last time or 6,700, whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we're F-40-800.
[SPEAKER_00]: And our cast assessment that was 9800 is now 4800.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the interest waned it wasn't just us as podcasts or something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: People really were turned off by what happened on season 41.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know people will say 41 is an underrated season.
[SPEAKER_00]: I always say it's the worst because the direction it took the show and people don't like to hear that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's it's shown in the viewership.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not just for our podcast or your channel, but also in what happened to survivor and a lot of it did have to do with.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got this question and I know I'm going on a rant here.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Ocon piece that fill your spot on with the editing, things survivor is aware, cares that the edit gives too much weight.
[SPEAKER_00]: They want it to be satisfying for the viewer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what they want.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he couldn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's in wasn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: No,
[SPEAKER_01]: major part of Erica's story and I don't know who Heather is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Aside from the one moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: When she can't get the ball in the reward, remember she threw the ball up and she had like run to the outside and catch the ball and she couldn't do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I always for some reason, maybe because of how the new air had been so far because Jeff had gone soft on us.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember Jeff being like so encouraging and for I went back and we watched it wasn't Jeff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jeff actually was pretty neutral.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was surprised.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the rest of his team like, oh, Heather, it's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like all this music and editing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like to make Heather seem like a hero for
[SPEAKER_01]: being terrible at a reward challenge.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's all I remember her for.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then like the finale, Erica's gonna take you on a reward.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, you are, why?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like who's Heather?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know?
[SPEAKER_01]: This is that time I was podcasting every week.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was paying, like it wasn't just a casual watch or I was paying attention.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and I was still was like, who is Heather?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, another thing that I mentioned with the giveaways here is that we did mention during 33, there was a beginning, it began at 33, but it didn't really become consistent until the new era is the match hat.
[SPEAKER_01]: The match hat was not a consistent thing from 33 through 40, but any new era, sorry, any new player season that they had a match hat, they always talked to the winner, but there wasn't a match hat every season, and of course we had two returny seasons in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, through us off with nobody had caught on yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: 41.
[SPEAKER_01]: We hadn't caught on, but they didn't match out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll do with Marion.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll do with Gabriel.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll do with GM jam.
[SPEAKER_01]: So
[SPEAKER_01]: When they do, I think when they do it with Gabe where some people start catching on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we did the Jam Jam, like, solidified it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they stopped doing everything I'm jammed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, they listen to what we're saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they tell us to our face, we're not listening to you, which is just wild to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they do listen.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then they, they'll tell us our face, your feedback means nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jake Jeff says that, which is Darrell Seymour says, Jeff saying there's no winner at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does he think we're doing it on his part?
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a winner at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says multiple times on his podcast, there's no such thing as when he's at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: The winner's not treated any different or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then I have footage, literally from the San Juan D'Alcer DVD, he specifically, where Jeff says, the winner gets a different edit because there are clues along the way that lead you to like, this is the winner.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you may not realize the finale, so like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't I just don't get the gaslighting of the fans and that's in the new era really it really shows because in that it's the premiere when just like drops the coming in guys which by the way he's totally allowed to do everyone's been talked to death He should have just dropped it and I made a thing everyone's come back conclusion but when Jeff's like oh tweet at me, I'm not going to read any ways like that is Jeff's true personality That is Jeff and Jeff throughout the whole new era
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm okay with Jeff having an FU fans mentality, if he owns that, but he doesn't own the owner.
[SPEAKER_00]: He, he, he, he, and I bet Jeff a couple of times in Jeff is like awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: And real life, that's why I get annoyed when he goes in like variety and stuff and starts talking about how the fans don't know what they want and he doesn't like when the fans say this, that whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like,
[SPEAKER_00]: But the fans are the ones who are like watching the show, you don't have to publicly state that they don't know what they want, just go behind the scenes and say, look, watch guys who don't play with this, I'm telling them you don't listen to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like that's annoying to me, so anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: going back to Erica right because I don't we don't need to spend a lot of time talking about Erica's way well there's not much to talk about because the show is interesting telling your story she took the game which is crazy she's only three only three and it's one and then when she get the two votes she gets him at the very end I yeah look at the the voting but she's been the
[SPEAKER_01]: And I hope we can all be respectful when I ask this question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is was the jury did the go with an agenda to give a woman a win because there was definitely a lot of talk before 41 ever began that there have been a long streak of male winners and women, it was time for women to get their due.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was a discussion online, it was actively happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was before 41's ever filmed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Didn't start after 41 or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there any agenda there from the jury for that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I felt like Xander never has shot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just Sean, maybe he never has shot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Eric going 7-1 was not reflected in the story.
[SPEAKER_01]: I made me think that the jury was like just planning on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, if a woman makes it, that's our winner.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't want to say that is what happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always been curious if that's a special thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a fair question to ask.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a popular question to ask because people normally jump down and throw it if you ask such a question.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's a fair question to ask where I go more with this one, though, is,
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like coming off of Black Lives Matter and everything that was going on in 2020, there was an added responsibility put on to Sean Schulders that the Sean did not want to carry into this season, and personally I don't think he should have had to, and I think that
[SPEAKER_00]: He did not get votes because he was not representative of what so many people wanted him to be with the perfect representative representation that they want and that's and I'm not going to sit here and talk on like race and all that but to me that plays more into it than the fact that it was man versus one because I do think that affects how Chan votes and read on it to a degree for what I recall.
[SPEAKER_01]: with a jury.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a discussion on the season, politics and race and all that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was definitely like, I think there was a line to tend to be made based on skin color.
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be incorrect by remember that post merge.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think just I was part of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's part of what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Sean, Sean kind of turns on, you know, the other black members of the tribe.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I forget exactly how I played out because I haven't rewatched 41 in a very long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: But.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that is a big reason why Deshawn ultimately doesn't get the votes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, for Erica's best move, I know that this is going to make it a laugh, it's her hitting the hourglass.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: She does the hourglass.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how she's doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's you, that's how she's doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more of the other.
[SPEAKER_00]: To me, it's when she hits the hourglass and then votes out Sidney because she votes out Sidney with Heather with Leona with Shannon with an ass here and she's doing that and she's going against like Danny and and and and to Sean who weren't really ever going to be with her and I think that that is why this was a good move it kind of set in motion that she should have more power and that she was going to get rid of somebody from her original starting tribe that was never going to want to play with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: The shan move.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's also a good one.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's also a lot more people willing to go about that So I think the hourglass.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it should be stupid to not hit the hourglass.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how stupid the twist of the hourglass Yeah, the hourglass needed to be you get immunity either way or you don't get immunity either way
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think giving a media, either way, is the direction I, as I said, I simply, if you podcast goes, the advantage, I think survivor needs to move in a direction of every, most everything is a benefit to you if you interact with it, that way you want to interact with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's too much punishment.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's too much taken, the takeaway votes is dumb, and it needs to be opened in the open air.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jeff's gonna sit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or if it does, Jeff, but like I didn't care if the fans didn't like that, I just decided not to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but the reality is that's probably still there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Though, taking away both things with discouraged people from interacting with an on-sense, or wanting to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, Erica, how are do you think she's ranked all 51ers, 42, 48?
[SPEAKER_01]: She is right above us.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where I ranked her.
[SPEAKER_01]: And everybody, right above Chris Underwood, right below Tommy Sheehan, where do you think the season itself is ranked out of 50?
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is where it's interesting,
[SPEAKER_00]: a majority of the majority of the fanbase hates this season, but there's a small portion of the internet that's trying to make a team like 41 is one of the best seasons of the new era and it's very active on X.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know if you have a lot of X followers.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, my fanbase has a more of a level ahead of my page.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say 45.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's falls a 47.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, your fanbase is intelligent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good people who watch my channel tend to not be
[SPEAKER_01]: They tend to be rational people.
[SPEAKER_01]: So at least the people are comment.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't get to make that a tear for your Patreon.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the rational tear, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, who comments on my videos?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was saying 90, 90, 90 times a rational person.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, so with that, I was trying to say is that the hourglass, I think that they could do it again by the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that the consensus was this is a terrible idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was terrible because of
[SPEAKER_01]: the execution.
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't a terrible idea of curried, but Jeff did say you win immunity, and it wasn't like, but this person going silent, you know, could change that or like if Jeff had told them, this person is going to go, they're going to make it a decision, it could flip it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe people are like, well, we should maybe we'll throw it because this person will give it to us, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or the person gets immune either way, and that way they're encouraged to make the decision they feel like is best for who they're aligned with.
[SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, there's like, well guys, I didn't have a decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a review or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, people like, yeah, I get that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they've noticed decision to me made there.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no decision.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what bothers me is it's the first time in the history of the show that Jeff flat out lies to the contestants.
[SPEAKER_00]: He tells them you are, if you win this challenge, you make the merge.
[SPEAKER_01]: You earn a lot of big merge entirely.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, because it doesn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: He never says it and that's the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like every other time Jeff doesn't tell people and you could even say, well, what about Pearl Islands?
[SPEAKER_00]: He never told them that they weren't coming back.
[SPEAKER_00]: He just said you've been trying to focus on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he just said the tribe is spoken.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was one, though, where he told a group of six people, you all are safe, and you're going to the merge and they win and they think they're going to the merge, we'll have to defend against that and there's nothing they can do to protect it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so idiotic and it's so stupid and it really is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's every twist in 41 is so problematic and so bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it just sets the stage where the whole new era is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why to me, this is the worst season in the history of the show because it sets the worst, if it puts survivor on the worst track imaginable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it continues that way with the randomness.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this game stops becoming so much about skill, which is why our highest ranked new era winner,
[SPEAKER_00]: and our winner rankings was 18.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was our highest.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we only had two in the top 25 and most of them were 30 or lower.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I just want to say that 41 would have benefited greatly from 90 minutes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the one of
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, the outcome or anything, but I don't think every season deserved it, but I think this is a season that would have benefited more from it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll never do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why they didn't do it for one years of order and COVID.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're never going to go back and read a seat or do it and extend it up to extended season.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, like it adds scenes back in or whatever, like the office doing super fan episodes, for example, that's not going to happen survivor.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, as somebody commented, what about Mike and each file three to file two, I'm going to be real if you guys like.
[SPEAKER_01]: The players had to use their brain and counted the days left.
[SPEAKER_01]: What have figured out there is a final two.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was enough medical evacuations to have to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: They had to have in our certain number of episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're in the world and have the players just been like, it doesn't make sense for us to go down to the final three on day 37.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does not make sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna be a final two.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's on them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hate how I also really is.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the last parchment they read, it doesn't say like, this is your final immunity challenge.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the show didn't like lie to him and trick him.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was no trickery.
[SPEAKER_01]: The players assumed something it only happened three times in a row.
[SPEAKER_01]: which was file three, you know, it happened 13, 14, 15.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like for 12 seasons, I've been a file two.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was on the table.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like now where it's like, it's reasonable to never expect file two now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has to have an error in the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Open error could bring back the sister and by the way, I am for them doing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Jeff likes that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, from everything I've heard, and I don't see why he would change it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he's enough uproar for them to switch it from three to two.
[SPEAKER_01]: If that makes sense, I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it would be fun to do, but I don't think they'll do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we move off Erica what's her worst move because I don't know what it is because I don't feel like she really has a move that goes wrong Because any time like she votes right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think every time she votes she did not be friend the editors and therefore they didn't give her a favorable That it maybe she wasn't entertaining enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: What if that's her worst move she was not an entertainment, but you know what that's not her fault That's Jesse Tanobam's the rest of the casting team
[SPEAKER_01]: That is not because this is fully his cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are 1,000 percent past.
[SPEAKER_01]: You cannot blame Lynn Spillman at all for the 41 cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could be like, well, Dan was under Lynn Spillman.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think of the day she didn't decide whether he was on the show that 39.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's like a little defense, but now 41 is 1,000% the new casting team and it is reflected in the entire new era as we get these are where the archetypes begin that you'll see throughout the entire new era for better or worse, whether you like them or not, this is the archetypes mostly what we're going to see and I agree to Sean who I went to Jeff is blast and progress like just so folks on whether I lied or not that he lost sight of the game like that's not what happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, it wasn't just Sean.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, uh, was Danny.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Danny.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Danny.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, that's not what happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not, Danny didn't go the next episode because he was two folks on you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Danny went to final six.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, she's the first, she's the first Canadian winner.
[SPEAKER_01]: Someone said that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she, so she gets the full million in terms of worst move.
[SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't really have him with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean she played that good of a game.
[SPEAKER_00]: She just wasn't, she didn't have to do much and the post merge.
[SPEAKER_00]: She wasn't being targeted.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she was able to kind of discuss everything with people, but we don't see her game enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't even know.
[SPEAKER_01]: One day, I will, so Erica's one of those 50 plus videos I got taken down, and it's one of those videos that I made, like, oh gosh, I was right after the season ended.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so long ago that I, it will be, if I ever make it again, it will be remade from the ground up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remade Tony's from the ground up.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's on Patreon right now on my channel.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Erica's definitely won.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to, like, rewatch the season, watch the secret scenes.
[SPEAKER_01]: This last season with Ponderosa episodes, by the way, everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe they're still on YouTube.
[SPEAKER_01]: who most time you're taking down, but this season, you can watch Ponderosa and see Shannon rip everyone a new one every time they go to Ponderosa.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to good time, but it's a time to be had, changing that other people for rational decisions that they made and then being upset with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So chans in all time casting decision before you go on a 42 fell.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to hook Pick your brain about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you know about the ponderosa team leaving because they left before a 42 They were not there for too.
[SPEAKER_01]: What happened?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know I have no idea?
[SPEAKER_00]: I am under the assumption that they got fired But I don't probably was one of the first things to get cut just because it was like, hey, we're not making money off of this get rid of it
[SPEAKER_01]: But in the middle of the cycle, you know, and they were not, and I know people like it's the Omar situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, wasn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: They weren't there for 42.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were not present on the on the on.
[SPEAKER_01]: They flew out in between 41 42 that I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't know what happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why why they got cut.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought maybe you knew now I don't I mean that's that's a mystery that I would like to know the answer to as well because I like you very much enjoy the ponderosis I'll conquer that we don't get that and then I feel bad for the social media team who gave like 43 casts like a cell phone to film vertical videos and like the upload in people like this is not ponderous videos and it's like nobody cares social media team didn't have a choice but same time like I agree that everybody it's this is not ponderous
[SPEAKER_01]: Another question filled before we went 42 because it says related, how I have always theorized with zero evidence that 42 was heavily reproduced, read and whatever to the backlash of 41.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you get that feeling as well watching 42 because Jeff says every episode's done six weeks in advance and so they had six weeks in between 41 42 to read every episode like at a time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it took me that long to do it, I think they probably were doing it beforehand,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just I think I think they I'll look forward to was presented the way it was going to be presented on screen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're probably right and I think Mary Ann said it is probably infinitely bigger than it would have been had.
[SPEAKER_00]: they're not in backlash because they don't speak Mary yeah, but I'm also talking like I think you might be right But I think Marianne especially Marianne goes to one tribal council in the first six episodes or first five episodes until the merge and she gets an edit that we do not see Erica get and I do think that there was backlash or I think they changed that but I also think that they changed kind of the approach with the hourglass and all of that
[SPEAKER_00]: because it's already been filmed.
[SPEAKER_00]: They can't change that, but they can change the way they present it to us.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do agree with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also think that if you watch 41 and 42, the 41 had a clear story focus, this affects Eric and Ann Marianne.
[SPEAKER_01]: A clear story focus of pushing whatever agenda it is if they're pushing political, whatever people want to say, social agenda, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: 42 all of a sudden,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not present.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, are you telling me that in the six days between 41, 42, the entire production went, this season we're gonna produce a different.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't think at all that happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the backlash of 41 is so strong that 42 was reended to sand away all the edges, to sand it down, to be as middle the road as possible, to make it as feel like survivors possible with what they had to work with.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the only time they couldn't avoid the situation was when Tory gets voted off.
[SPEAKER_01]: at that post more travel counsel, which is a Marianne moment, which might as well reference.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good for Marianne by the way, playing the idol, like being like, this is a thing for me to also play the idol to prove that I'm not just trying to get by by imagining that race is important to me and seeing the people of my color on the jury as a matter of, like, good for her doing that, because that would have been a real negative had she not done that against her.
[SPEAKER_01]: in terms of how people view her.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I think 42, but bottom point, Tory thing happens and never mentioned again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we know the show could not avoid showing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: If they could have avoid showing it, they would have, but they couldn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was not a straightforward edit.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was literally well known needs to vote.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tory go play shot the dark.
[SPEAKER_01]: The show did themselves in when they did that.
[SPEAKER_01]: They could have left very vote and it almost could have not been shown.
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's the thing, because now, I mean, we're on Erica and we're talking 34 minutes in and we still have four more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, I don't remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but I have to say this about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, about.
[SPEAKER_00]: 41 my last thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I've that put an actual timestamp.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, to say like we've gone to Marianne my last thing about 41 is People didn't want to be reminded about all the shit of COVID.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we all just live through it a lot of people are still living through it and people wanted to tune it out and that was a total total miss By survivor with how they handled 41 and wanted to tell the back stories and be more emotional and talk so much about COVID.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you can hear about it
[SPEAKER_01]: Every single person of 41 had a sob story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every single person.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think for you to as well, by the way, but for you, one was just a grieges.
[SPEAKER_01]: Zander's sob story was that he was fat in the old school, then he stopped being fat.
[SPEAKER_01]: 10 out of 10, I love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Zander's sob story is that he's so unbelievably good looking and pretty successful.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, wow, this is tough.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man, before I hit puberty, I was a little chubby, and then I hit puberty, I became the man I am today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love a visually moving on to Marianne.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Marianne comes out the marker of the transition for 41-42, Phil, because that's kind of what I was talking about, Ponderosa.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I got you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just had to make it 35-18, you know, I had to make sure I knew where to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mary Ann's game.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm surprised how much people don't like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like we got so much wrap.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like we got so much crap for ranking Mary Ann as one of the best new era winners.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think people just kind of forget what Mary Ann did.
[SPEAKER_00]: You already mentioned it with the Dreia moment where she plays the idol, which again, that's more of like a real moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Omar boot is all time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, her to play the extra vote to get Omar out at a 222 split and ensure that it's the person she wants to go home who goes home is amazing and it's what wins her the game and nobody saw it coming and it is an unbelievable backstab because everybody thought Omar was cooking and Omar was going to win.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is unbelievable.
[SPEAKER_00]: I always say this with Tony too.
[SPEAKER_00]: when Tony came out for Kagya and everybody was like this guy's an idiot.
[SPEAKER_00]: His pre-game press was awful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody thought he was going to be good at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody really was underestimating him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maryam was the same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maryam was so annoying.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how I knew season 42 was spoiled.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was because like three episodes in people were like, you don't see that it's obvious Maryam's going to win.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, and this is before we're new about the match shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's how our new jam jam was when he was the match shot.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a clocked up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I was like, I was like, what are we talking about guys?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, Marianne is still being edited to be like pretty annoying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what are we talking about?
[SPEAKER_00]: And her game really picks up at the merge, but I think Marianne, Marianne was another one where she takes what Erica did and kind of takes to another level, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: She plays the under the radar quiet game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sit back, let's other people do things and then when she makes she has her moment the strike She takes her moment and she strikes and then she puts together one of the best final travel counts of performances Yeah, she just wiped the floor and her selling a non play as a big move and everybody was like whoa Like that's amazing like the fact that she was able to say I did I was going to this bite and have to and it's like what
[SPEAKER_01]: The effort idols you didn't have to play, I think?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody was so amazed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, wow, we're so proud of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is so great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Marianne absolutely kills my, I mean, going into that final travel council, Mike is supposed to win that season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's assuming Mike's going that season.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Marianne just kind of put to him in his place.
[SPEAKER_00]: He says, no, this is actually what was going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is how it all happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's brilliantly executed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where Eric is game into Marianne's game, that's like an evolution within itself.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Erica laid the groundwork for what the new era was going to be and then Marianne just built on it and I didn't Gabriel or builds on it even further.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Jam Jam might perfect it even though I don't like it's an exciting game and I you know Ring Jam can kind of low but like yeah It's just it's fascinating how all of the winners here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Marianne was a good character Which is why they were able to get away with giving her still a big edit and making it a satisfying story.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if she's not a good character, she plays almost the same game as like Erica and all these other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: She just has bigger moments and she's more entertaining in festivals.
[SPEAKER_01]: Marianne's a top 10 winner for me based on her character.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not her game play.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really her character.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really like Marianne.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know she'd always love people and I'm sure if I was in the island I would agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the season that not would have not benefited from 90 minute episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think 41 would have 42 would not have it been worse for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: 43 would have been maybe 43 even better.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a little conflicted on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: 44 would have been worse for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to think about these earlier new air seasons like, would have benefited.
[SPEAKER_01]: 41, yes, 42, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: 43, maybe, 44 definitely not.
[SPEAKER_01]: 44 would have been like 48 and 49 had nine
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, like I'm thinking like the man at Marion got I'm like everything played out was like perfect.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a good big character.
[SPEAKER_01]: She wasn't perfect though.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was definitely knowing your tribe.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's it's a good thing she had jumped on our tribe.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they did really well and challenges.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only one tribe like you mentioned where I believe Maria went out or mayor.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's spelled against R-Y-A-R-Y-A-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y-R-Y
[SPEAKER_01]: because Jonathan was annoyed by her, and at the time, Lindsey was with Jonathan, before she turned on Jonathan later, like not liking him, but in the early game, she was like, I'm pro Jonathan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: which makes me wonder if that's how other people feel as well because I feel like 50 maybe it reflects a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what to make you feel like dropping the gets in on them.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't like them or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could just see Jonathan being a big personality that the more you're around him, the more tiring it gets, especially if he's not your kind of person, which just seems like was the problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also feel like Lindsey and Jonathan have like a mutual disrespect to each other if that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's often been like her either, wasn't one way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they did not like each other at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, Marianne's Marianne's also interesting because she was the one who had the whole bunny rabbit in the mailbox or whatever, and because of that line and because of her personality, it felt like it made sense, and that was another great Marianne.
[SPEAKER_01]: How long did you draw that she got that one?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so many you factured by production, and this is something that we were talking
[SPEAKER_00]: We were finishing out game changers and we were talking about how everything feels so Man you factured by production starting at game changers.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's how can we force their hand to do stuff?
[SPEAKER_00]: And the most memorable issues fill the control it they do and one of the most memorable things about Marianne is her doing that line Which is like how hot that's funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also why is production forcing this so hard?
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is where for me again, it starts to become hard to rank these winners and really
[SPEAKER_00]: tell you that these players are as good as other players because they're having to navigate so much BS that just didn't exist.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I get that that's where the game is at now, but it's becoming less of a skill-based game and more of a luck-based game.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's season 42 kind of solidifies that because it does a lot of the same things that season 41 did.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know Phil, if potatoes have skin and I have skin,
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I won't deny it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the best line out of all of them because that made me think of like that's so stupid.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've control issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we talked to you mentioned earlier how like earlier seasons, there's a lot of camp like moments.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's how you got to know people and it really feels like production again with control issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were either manufacturer moments like boys on the bench was so forced to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: We watched it at 49 like it was I cringe watching that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jeff rapping, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like they really want to tell story through confessionals because that's a way they can control.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, you lead them with questions to lead them to what they want them to, you know, topics they want them to talk about.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, it's definitely, there's been a shift where they admit it or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe Marianne was just a good character.
[SPEAKER_01]: She had her own moments too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I know she was annoying to some, but she was, I don't know, she was genuinely fun to watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Her gameplay for me was nothing really right home about.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I really like Marianne.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a shame she wasn't on 50.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have enjoyed her on 50 more than, I mean, it could be controversial, D or Savannah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have, do your Savannah could go on in a better place, Marianne.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have been a happy camper, but I agree with you about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that they would have, I think that D or Savannah, like I understand why D is getting,
[SPEAKER_00]: so many opportunities, but I don't think she's the best character by any means from the new era.
[SPEAKER_00]: Savannah is a great character, but Savannah's back was so against the wall that Savannah's gonna be better off coming back for 52 or 53 or 54 and you have Mary in there and then I will also say I think people respect Savannah's game in 49 a lot more because it's not spoiled for everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Savannah, um, I think our
[SPEAKER_01]: I think marrying gets picked over both of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could be wrong or bad, I could very well be wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think there's a lot of recibis in Savannah's.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then D was one of the on fire co-hosts, which seemed to be, which seemed to get a bump when being picked for 50, though, Rachel was, when she was on our podcast, she was like, well, I didn't get a call, and I was an on fire co-host.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I remember specifically listening to on fire, and people commenting, like, Jeff doesn't seem like Rachel as much as he likes his past co-hosts.
[SPEAKER_01]: During the season, she was
[SPEAKER_01]: podcasting before 50 was even announced with their cast or anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess you know what the thing is with D D like Jeff so badly wants us to be like a Gen Z show and he's trying to get it there Yes, it's on for eight-year-olds.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he says that on the podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, in-year-olds and D. What's cool?
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you think about the winners of the show, who were the three who came back?
[SPEAKER_00]: And this isn't shade to anybody else.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like if you think about the three who were on 50 from the new era winners, they picked the three coolest people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's just what they did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Rachel, she's a puzzle girl.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you go to Kenzie, you know, she's a hairstylist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's cool to some people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kenzie also didn't want to play so that you can throw out jam jam.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like big and loud.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's he's going to be in your face.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he's necessarily cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Plus he went into the trader.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think you have your traders to go back and let your boss robbers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then Marianne, Marianne and Erica.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just not cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they're kind of nerdy.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're kind of weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they pick the cool people because that's what they wanted.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're just so crazy people because the story of Marianne is you can be weird and be a winner or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: She said, that was like her major, that was like your major storyline.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so for survivor, if you're what you're saying is true, to not pick some because they're weird or goofy or whatever, is like you're undercutting stories you've told the past.
[SPEAKER_01]: If that's true, Phil, I don't, they didn't come out and say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully they wouldn't say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We pick Savannah and D because they're cooler than Mary Ann, but you, I'm thinking through the winners, you're probably not wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm thinking that they wanted in day-to-day winners that they want kids to look up to the most.
[SPEAKER_00]: And those are the three.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like I hadn't thought about like that, that's a good one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really like Mary Ann.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I said that it's reflected in her story video that I made.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about how far off she's from a perfect game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you already know Phil?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's the same as Eric raised three votes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, it's three.
[SPEAKER_01]: The new era is fairly consistent because four seasons in a row, it's seven one to zero.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what, how did that happen?
[SPEAKER_01]: Crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, got to mention, at final tribal, I think that no matter what, a woman was going to get high's vote because high worships had feminist on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a very big fan of high as a survivor contestant like I've never met him in person so I'm not going to talk about him there, but I feel like he I feel like his whole moment on TV was to to mean and I just I never connected with high at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what was Marianne's worst move?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we talked about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Her worst move is probably whatever happens when Chanel goes home.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's on the wrong side of the boat there.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's trying to vote for Romeo.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like she doesn't go to any tribal in the pre-merge other than when Maria goes home or Mariah, however you say her name, every get because she's barely in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, like voting out Traia is a big, great move.
[SPEAKER_00]: Voting out Homer is a great move.
[SPEAKER_00]: Voting out high is the right move.
[SPEAKER_00]: The whole Tory situation is really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I had to say that's probably her worst move, I mean, honestly, the other thing that you could say is her worst move.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's being herself early on, because that's on the wrong side of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's her worst move for me is how much she was annoying people.
[SPEAKER_01]: She did correct herself and she acknowledges it on the show, but yeah, it's definitely annoying others for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also...
[SPEAKER_00]: I also feel this West, and I don't know if this is something like you pick up on her, ever talk about on your show.
[SPEAKER_00]: But where what people's expectations of you are so important on survivor?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because when you come in and Marianne is annoying and whatever, then when she starts to improve, you're like, oh, I really like Marianne.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where if you have an expectation like Jonathan of like, this guy's big buff, we're going to get along whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he starts to annoy you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, now I really hate him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it really, he really skews your opinion in one direction more extremely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that benefited Marianne
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I perception is reality, and Tony is the poster boy for that in terms of winners because where's the Warriors like he knew what people expected of him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's like, I'm going to stay around camp and hang low.
[SPEAKER_01]: People don't expect me to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: People expect me to go crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he did his best to stay low and stand to the radar and say cool call my collected.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still Tony, but we talk about Tony already.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm agreeing with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So by the new era season, it's good to know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this
[SPEAKER_01]: He just makes bad decisions when designing the game, my opinion.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's not wrong about a lot of our things.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of them is he'll say, if you don't know how you're perceived, ask people who know you what the perception is of you before you go on, so that you know how you will be perceived by others when you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's very smart.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's one of the things like, Jet, like, just right about things.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just not designed the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Usually not designed the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not in strong suit.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think it's a good one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where do you think, Marianne?
[SPEAKER_01]: 34 28 right after that's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I ranked it right at 20 right above Michelle Fitzgerald Repalose Sarah Lucina and I think it's a I think it's a solid spot for I mean it's literally middle of the road 42 season itself where do you think it ranks?
[SPEAKER_01]: 36
[SPEAKER_01]: 35.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very close.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can read your mind, Wes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is like you see off the reflection of my glasses.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right above game changers and right below South Pacific.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's better than
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's very game changers.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Game changers was we talked about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I self-Pacific is very hit and messed depends on I depends on what depends on feel on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I just finished my game changers rewatch and I will say that I ended up ranking it as the fourth worst of the first 34 seasons because it was a mad.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think game changers are a great simple things back and out the season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Four to at least has is consistent across the board in its mediocrity.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious how
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, and then in terms of our winner rankings, I ranked through a 2018, that up at 31 over all, so not far off.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're good at them, didn't mess it up too much, then.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, where did the will group of them have her?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think will actually really like her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, will had her at 19.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was Blink who had her very low, because Blink just ranked all of the new era people from 37 to 46, in which I'm just so sure at this one, they were like, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's his own prerogative, because they did play only two thirds, the game everyone else did.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was his excuse and his reason of why he did all those rankings and then he ranked Benjreyburg and behind them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you guys got to go listen to the podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why he did all that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will never.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will never knock anyone for actually putting out their rankings of all 50 winners and or seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you actually will put yourself out there and say what your 50 are.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will never knock you for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like we can joke about will, but at least he ranked them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you'll see a lot of people complaining, I know we talked about this before the podcast fill.
[SPEAKER_01]: People just complaining on rankings, on ranking videos, post, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, okay, how do you rank all 50?
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you put yourself out there and do that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause if you do, credit to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, now there's a discussion to be had, but if you're just gonna be like, well, that's dumb.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well with the other 49, how would you rank them all?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's what we did, it's easy to say this first me at one or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, but it's harder to make those middle decisions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, there's so many people.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I really like a lot of these people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe I don't really like a lot of these people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Either way, it's got to make hard decisions.
[SPEAKER_01]: The top and the bottom are very easy.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's everything in between.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like, I want this person at 10, but maybe they need to be at 13, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly how I felt.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the top 10 is easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: The bottom 10 is easy in the middle.
[SPEAKER_00]: You start being like, I don't know what the difference between 33 and 34 is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, oh, oh, I'll just say seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can tell you, but yes, I got you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm not talking about what you're actually doing a ranking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you don't feel passionately one way or the other.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: 42 for these are very mediocre season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which would put it in the bottom 20 seasons in my ranking, top my head.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, Marianne is the winner though top top 21er maybe top 10 just again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never actually done all 50 myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I'll never criticize anybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: I the rankings that we do on our channel stand and I give my opinions on everybody and ever winner.
[SPEAKER_01]: But no one's ever Patients haven't picked me to make it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I haven't made it breaking them all.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know if they ever pick it, I'll make it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then picked it and I got my hands full making everything I'm already making so I don't have time for extra videos on top of the all the ones I'm already making so but they pick it I will do it Now where I will do it so I know we're gonna be getting the gable are here in a second I just want to ask you this question because I know you probably don't know what off the top of your head Mary Ann you feel like it's a pretty big at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you feel like Gabler gets a pretty small edit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like Gabler gets a strong edit through the merge, and then kind of is just present until the last until the finale.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that what I recall?
[SPEAKER_01]: I have seen his season a couple times.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it really felt like Gable is a major character in the first six episodes, a lead through the alley boot, and then post alley, he's kind of just there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he's not, he's not ever disappeared.
[SPEAKER_01]: No one is as a winner post, uh, Erica, but he's not like a major character, like he was in the first six episodes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mary Ann finishes with two more confessionals than Gabriel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mary Ann moments a camp, though.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That Gabriel or did Gabriel get a bomb from some people.
[SPEAKER_00]: He got called an idiot by a woman's dammy.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's premiere.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's just for premiere.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm talking about post merge.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where's Gabriel's moments?
[SPEAKER_01]: moments that I remember gaveler having.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember Jesse's moments, Jesse had a lot of good moments post-march.
[SPEAKER_01]: But gaveler didn't have a lot of moments post-march.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really through Ellie.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like through Ellie, gaveler's a major character.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are we on a 43 officially, is this it?
[SPEAKER_01]: We're on the 43 officially now.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So 43, I think that they took feedback.
[SPEAKER_01]: And while they didn't listen to all of it, they'd listen to some that no do or die, and we didn't talk about that, but there's no do or die anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our glass is gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jeff, during 43 goes on to Marion Pippin's podcast from War of the Rings, everyone's seen that by now, and talks about,
[SPEAKER_01]: The mistakes he made during 1941 and 42 and actually admit to stuff is very, it's one of the better podcasts.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, holy cow, just actually like owning things and not just blaming us for his mistakes, good podcasts that he did with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this season is the one where I remember like they tried front loading, they felt still felt like they needed to do sob stories because that's a very common trope in all of these rally shows.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was I don't watch the singing competition anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: You watched American Idol in the 2000s, but then I just stopped because I stopped being interested in American Idol.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was over at my parents house for like Christmas or whatever and they were watching, I think
[SPEAKER_01]: was America's got talent or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, everybody has sob story and I'm like, is this a thing and other shows?
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I not watching enough reality TV to know this is now a thing in survivors just jumping on a trend?
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause, oh my gosh, it's just a sufferable to watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: But 43, try to front load them all.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think half of the stories were in the premiere.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was almost half, if not half.
[SPEAKER_01]: They tried front loading them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was like, as dumb, it was worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: They wouldn't want any of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think though that's why I end up loving season 43 is because then for the rest of the season, it's just them playing survivor and that's what I wanted it to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Forty people who were back to basics, basic people really hate this season.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so much of it is that Gabler wins.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that more has to do with the political landscape of things, which like I've met Gabler a couple times.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know what his politics are.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think people make a lot of assumptions just weren't very donate to the veteran and
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think people are making a lot of assumptions because this is a guy who also, like, I'm pretty sure, like, openly is like doing some pretty crazy drugs, like psychedelics and stuff, so it's like, you know what it's like, yeah, I'm pretty sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I just think, like, you know, Gabler is one of these guys who, there's a complexity to him, but I do think that some of like the online community just really hates the season because he ultimately ends up getting the win, but like, you know, he's at Owen Night Wedding and stuff, and like, I've gotten no Owen pretty well and like, I don't think Owen is necessarily gonna,
[SPEAKER_00]: be best buddies with somebody that he doesn't like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, like, you know, like, I know that sounds ridiculously simple, but I'm just like putting that out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it has taste and gave where past his past.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so my whole thing with this is, I think that's why 43 gets dumped on.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also think, look, I only ranked Gable or at 43.
[SPEAKER_00]: in my ranking, ha ha, he sees him 43 in our ranked in my 43.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think on a rewatch, I'm probably going to move him up because Gabriel or plays the only game that Gabriel can play.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that that makes people mad and people will say he doesn't feel like a deserving winner.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he's over 50 years old playing survivor.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so for me, when I walked two winners, that did that, by the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think only two.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're both ranked very low because people say what they weren't really in control or people are doing things for them, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: it's not just that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the fact that every other person who you can say is a better player than them like 45 plus didn't win survivor.
[SPEAKER_00]: These people did because they did what they were supposed to at that age.
[SPEAKER_00]: They can't go places all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gable or can't play the same game.
[SPEAKER_00]: as Jesse.
[SPEAKER_00]: He can't play the same game as Kyle and win.
[SPEAKER_00]: He can't play the same game as Savannah and win.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has to play a different game.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like winners like that get knocked for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're an older male or female going out the play survivor, Gabriel's game is the game you should emulate because he played under the radar.
[SPEAKER_00]: He made one move all game and it was getting rid of Ellie, which is a brilliant move.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was well-liked enough that by the time he got to the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: he's able to get the votes and win in a lamb side and everybody shot but he makes the pitch at the end that's like guys this is what I did and I knew that I had to lay low and you have to be able to own your game and be convincing and be likable but if you are you can win and go to the end with two people that the jury doesn't necessarily respect all that much like I think Owen and Cassidy are great people they didn't get the votes at the end because the jury at the end of the day wasn't so committed to them right so
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're an older person, if you're getting cast on 53 or 54, this is the game you want to play.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to be clear, Phil's not saying emulate everything about his game because he did make some messy mistakes, especially in the premiere.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, the premiere was bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's his worst move.
[SPEAKER_01]: all the good stuff that you can take from Gabriel's games, what you should emulate.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that Ellie Bowdoff is his best move because he could not have her on the jury.
[SPEAKER_01]: He could not have her, especially as the Queen of Ponderosa, potentially poisoning the jury.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Ellie needed to go pre-jury.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just the way their relationship was.
[SPEAKER_01]: She had to go and I think his best move simply means like I threw Ellie's name out there because I wanted Ellie gone He said it better than I did though, but he's not what it's what we're gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's no trick to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want her out
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of my favorite confessional's ever he says I threw Ellie's name out there to throw Ellie's name out there and I just remember watching that being like oh shit and that's where yeah you know people would be like how do you rent Gabriel or Erica because Gabriel or had immense control over his game the entire time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gave your heart before you from the beginning to the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has a clear story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mary and I had a clear story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Erica didn't have that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's our community.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Erica higher.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also for anybody who wants to like not gave her one vote away from a perfect game.
[SPEAKER_00]: He almost sweeps the jury of James Jones votes for him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now he is our third perfect game in the history of the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can't say that, oh, he didn't do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't need to.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was one of the idols.
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't have immunity.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't riding off a nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: He won a immunity at the one where he's doing only names, this is for that director.
[SPEAKER_01]: He won, yeah, he won that one, though.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't going there if I recall.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, he was up on our alley wet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, let me look.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking to he did want to want to mute you.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm saying that like J T and Cochrane one like and white went.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't going when they're foot when they're but was to the fire.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, and end of the game, J T could have gone had even flipped.
[SPEAKER_01]: See, we've never got the chance.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just never made sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cochrane.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know the cochrane is ever going, but had Cochrane gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would have been closer to the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was wanting immunity as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: He had to make decisions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gable wasn't doing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gable were went into fire.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, okay, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And where is like, Cassidy's literally being told by the jury.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you do not do X, I will not vote for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And people will be like, well, they weren't gonna vote for anyways.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, maybe, but she wasn't listening to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's probably why they weren't gonna vote for her.
[SPEAKER_01]: She didn't feel like they were being heard.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jessie's like, you need to face me and fire.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, Jessie's just thing about, I could probably be Cassidy versus Gable.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, had Jesse Felicchi had a legit chance he might have voted for Cassidy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying he would have, but why, as the perfect example of, I don't feel like I need to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's like, did you not watch Natalie lose when there's a war?
[SPEAKER_01]: She thought the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: She had things she needed to, but she did.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cassidy really, I just don't think realized how good Gabriel was going to be able to pitch his game at the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is her season away.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if Gabriel doesn't pitch his game at the end the way he does, Cassidy's millionaire.
[SPEAKER_01]: If Cassidy wipes out Jesse in fire, Cassidy had better odds.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think she made Jesse in fire though.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that was what the strategy was and I think her pitch at the end of like, why do I need to go to travel?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do I need to go to fire?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or do you want to mean it?
[SPEAKER_00]: You actually think it's a very fair pitch and I think it's one that should have resonated.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, as I said before, I'm of the mind that you should always put yourself in fire because it's, it's, like, number one, you should have practiced it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're on survivor.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is one of one stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Put yourself against somebody you think is weak.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care.
[SPEAKER_01]: Put yourself in fire.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a move that entire jury gets to watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you should do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you should always do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it hurts to get lose.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you're the one who made her film stand out.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's okay, you could disagree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think good putting yourself in fire, but you wouldn't do it unless you've been practicing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you should have been practicing by the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you applied on the show, you should already be practicing before you apply.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you apply, you should be, come on now.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is basic 101 stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like not being prepared to starve.
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Got to mention Phil very quickly.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is off topic.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Mariah, first move to the season right has the rainbow hair.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's called.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, very this is the casting archetypes amazing race 34 have mentioned amazing race and if you in a little while, but amazing 34 fell.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't fear familiar.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you look at the cast real quick, there is a woman who looks very much like Mariah.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the same exact year with the color, like the exact same like colored, I don't know what that's called.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's like, I always like confused watching the amazing survivor back to back.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, did they cast Mariah on both seasons?
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't look the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the hair.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not that like they're the same person.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just like crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I see.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you're like, okay, archetype, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But it didn't work out because it didn't bring they do this again, but it's like that they did both them and same year on same on on CBS shows, but the same casting team.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is how out of the loop I am on the amazing race.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not know that Rex Ryan was on the amazing race.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he didn't know he had a last very long, but he was he was he was he was there for people's feet.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think to look at them, but yeah, that there you go, I'm working it everywhere shoes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a stat that a stat that I want to bring up because hi, where do you guys see it here is saying, fill in West Edgick broke the winner or broke by the winner of show I 43.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I I was saying the whole time, Jesse doesn't win.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be gay blur and you can listen to all of my podcasts.
[SPEAKER_00]: I say that over and over.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, this is my first public loss on calling the winner, Gabler.
[SPEAKER_01]: I missed on Gabler and I missed on Kyle.
[SPEAKER_01]: To be fair, I was, I was, I had Kyle number two and I said, Joe doesn't win Kyle wins it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I thought that was the season they were breaking the zero professional role film.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I was I was all in on Kyle and this was before we really knew the zero confessional role was going to happen, but I kept saying they're giving Gabler confessional when they don't need to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cassidy went two episodes early without them and then I said if Jessie doesn't get there, it's going to be Gabler like they've been setting it up the whole time and people would argue and say the edit wasn't there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to read this off.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a stat that's important to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: The survivor fact checker has all the winter confessional stats, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: What survivor fact checker does is he puts them together also.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a he puts them together by the percentage of the edit you should have compared to the rest of your cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like zero percent means that you were perfectly even you got exactly what you were supposed to get from a comparison to the average from the rest of the cast based on how many episodes your and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Mike Gabler is a negative 9% meaning he's 9% off of what he should have been.
[SPEAKER_00]: He gets 46 confessionals.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's 9% lower than what his average should have been.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which ranks 39th.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm going to read off the people who are below him, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Chris Underwood.
[SPEAKER_00]: Aubrey.
[SPEAKER_00]: Danny boat, right, Erica.
[SPEAKER_00]: Parvity shallow, really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sophie, Sandra in 20, Vesepia, Bob, and Natalie White.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Parvity shallow is Eddie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Women in old men.
[SPEAKER_00]: Reneasion than this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Chris, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: women, old men and Chris and Chris, who barely is in the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I just, I always like to point that out because people always talk about how like this was so bad and blah, blah, blah, it's like this isn't that shocking.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if you go back and I know you said you've rewatch the season, they leave the bright crumbs for you for the majority of the season.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's very similar to Michelle's at it where there's other places for you to look, but they're telling you the story.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not looking there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a magician trick.
[SPEAKER_00]: right half the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a winner at it, Phil.
[SPEAKER_01]: That it's the breadcrumbs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Literally just said that during San Juan del Serra, whatever, he's like, he's like a winner at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's us leaving like ants and breadcrumbs or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like up to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, and when you rewatch it, you'll see them or they're all there at the whole time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a murder mystery.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the whole idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then Jeff on his podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, that doesn't exist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Natalie and Eric are the only two.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't exist for everybody else to break crumbs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, on fire, Phil.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I very asked this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it coming back prediction?
[SPEAKER_00]: You have asked it and we both discussed and I'm not.
[SPEAKER_00]: I still don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying no.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it comes back.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's dead.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's dead and calling it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if it comes back good because I love hearing Jeff try to gaslight me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the gaslighting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a I have a Jeff gaslighting me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what's the word for it?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's appropriate.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a Jeff gaslighting me thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't use the one that starts with an F1.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I'm just saying I Jeff gaslighting me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I go to get I get a good kick out of it because I know what he's going to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm prepared.
[SPEAKER_00]: So give me some rankings from your team over there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Gabriel is one vote away from the perfect game.
[SPEAKER_00]: We all know that what do you got for the run?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's basically, Gabriel is a top five winner or top six winners, oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Statistically, on close to the perfect game.
[SPEAKER_01]: But where do you think he ranks?
[SPEAKER_01]: 46.
[SPEAKER_01]: Close 42 46.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe we're very talked about tonight.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it was Ben Dreeberg.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is right below Danny Bow Wright and can you believe it?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's right above Bob Crowley.
[SPEAKER_01]: What are the odds?
[SPEAKER_01]: Chocking.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, shocking.
[SPEAKER_01]: 42 itself are sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: 43 itself.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think it ranks man?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is another tough one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say I'm going to say 42, but it should be much higher than that.
[SPEAKER_01]: 38 right below Carimbo and right above heroes versus yellows versus hustlers.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is probably, and we're going through, we're ranking on, we're doing all that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this probably comes in at top 25 at least.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't be surprised if it's top 20 for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's better on a rewatch for those who have not rewatched it since it aired.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good on a binge, and I think it's just better on a rewatch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially knowing Gable or Wins.
[SPEAKER_01]: And unlike, I know you said, you know, like Edge of Extension, because I feel like I'm wasting time, because Chris is going to win, and I disagree, but I think this one, I think we can all agree,
[SPEAKER_01]: Knowing Gabe was going to win, actually rewatching it, it's like watching it with fresh eyes with my eyes are opened now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if you do Gabe was going in the first time, it's like, okay, but now you really know and you know what you're looking for and it's all there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Plus, it's just entertaining.
[SPEAKER_01]: How's your good cast?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, interesting things happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really, I think there's some good ideas in here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, when was it Cody who found the advantage pinned to the tree at eye height, by the way, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll let him get to pick who he thinks going to win.
[SPEAKER_01]: They do last gas, which they only do I think they do here in 44 But here it's like it just goes on for so long.
[SPEAKER_01]: They go on and bring it give it some people are left in the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess like it's just a little memorable things like that See convincing two people to give him his idols and just he just strips steals Janine's idol the or Dwight's idol.
[SPEAKER_01]: I forget was it Janine's idol?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's Dwight's idol to him
[SPEAKER_00]: Something like that, however it is, it's whoever gets voted out, he has it and that person's not even on the jury so they can't even reveal it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I saw a comment too saying that episode two of the season that tested out the 90 minutes, which makes me wonder Phil, that is the down the maze race as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: They did test it out and they knew the right track was happening in a year.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's very likely that episode two of the season was a test run for what 90 minutes will look like.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder Phil, 46 did an episode two of two hours.
[SPEAKER_01]: You think they were test running doing two hour episodes and they realized that's a colossal failure rate in the happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: because they didn't get 46 as well, they test ran.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it could be that, or it could just be the way it worked out on the TV schedule.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a lot of times that's just how it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, hey, we have an extra half hour, give us some content great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, it was one of the worst episodes the show's had that chess boot after we watched where chess should've just won home the episode before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the primer, I love season 46, but it doesn't start till the post merge.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a pre-mort.
[SPEAKER_01]: 90 minutes here definitely felt like where they're testing the wires because everyone who was keeping track of the film industry knew this was coming.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was not a surprise.
[SPEAKER_01]: May have been surprised to general, like general audience, general world or whatever people aren't paying attention, but everyone knew this was coming here in advance at least.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this was coming, the Ryashark was coming.
[SPEAKER_01]: We already knew.
[SPEAKER_01]: They already knew it was coming.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was no surprise.
[SPEAKER_00]: And especially for just steins boot, like it's such an unmemorable boot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, anyways, I enjoy Gableur story.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has a very, is a very clear story entire way.
[SPEAKER_01]: One vote off a perfect game.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's underrated.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think people are mad that he gave away a million dollars, all million dollars, or whatever, whatever, whatever, stuff for taxes.
[SPEAKER_01]: He gave away to charities.
[SPEAKER_01]: People like while he should let somebody else win.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why can't you give me a little bit of a better game than I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's allowed to do whatever he wants with the money.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah What's what I just don't understand why is it different him giving him the charity versus somebody getting a million dollars and selfishly spending it You want to know why because the lies the Orland says so West yes, why don't you why don't you be careful with what you say because a lies the Orland says so
[SPEAKER_01]: She did blast him hard, and then she never apologized to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, don't it?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he like prove that he did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she didn't say anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, because she's a, because she's a, she's a grifter, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: She just faces people around and wants to ruin their lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she takes no responsibility for her actions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's one thing to call something out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then just be wrong about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in this case, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: she didn't she just admitted to nothing because she's agreed with what she thinks gave us politics are again, public about his politics a lot of the ruling isn't trying to bring people together she's trying to bring them tear them apart that's all she's about because she gets paid for it she's going to put it behind a pay will also pay her to get the information that's supposed to be helping society okay yeah it was like it wasn't like a fobio who i'm pretty sure just
[SPEAKER_00]: he wanted to do like a production company but i think he just ended up like honestly i think he banked a lot of his money i don't think probably i thought he lost all of his money and he got a thing like remember when you know he's just the best
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm remembering you're arrested.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so, Gableur, I enjoy him.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I were to actually rank him, he probably wouldn't be as high as I would want him to be because I just think there are people with better stories like fear gameplay moves.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think Gableur well earned.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Gableur is one of those, like, here's a lesson to be learned.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not about making the flat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look at Jesse, it's not about making the flat.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Jesse had he made firewood of one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, Jesse wins the season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 100%.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gable going in there casually just blowing Jesse at the R setting the record at the time, beating, beating him in fire was like, that's a mic drop.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: If Jesse wanted one season, Jesse should have made fire.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is why I wouldn't put myself in fire because you could think that you're going to beat the other person, but Gable or did it like three and a half minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if I got really good at fire, I don't know how I'm doing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure, for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not I'm just saying like if you want to win then you better win if you want to not have to have me donate a million dollars well, then you better be better than them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just win maybe and Gable or wasn't even like it wasn't even like something he'd dry.
[SPEAKER_01]: He said it like Pontribely like he waited until the reunion or whatever the after show to say it wasn't like he used it as like, hey, if you give me the money, I'm going to give it to charity.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, there's like, hey, by the way, because I won, I was already planning doing this, just not, it wasn't going to like manipulate you all and tell you a given to charity, it's a fair good cause.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I used to be a question, be like, what do you get to do with the million dollars?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, well, I think I'm going to start a school for under under privileged children, it's like, you are on six hundred thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, this was back in the early days when you could do that on like 800,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know they used to go further.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see like a major question people asked, they don't ask that anymore, especially with production like pushing the narrative.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we're doing the output portion of the final tribal.
[SPEAKER_01]: With that last portion of final, you know, like whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another disaster from game changers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thankfully, they fixed that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think at 46, they stopped doing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And said to let people ask questions, they can edit out people they don't like, so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and I didn't want the jury to just take over the way they didn't 46.
[SPEAKER_01]: But all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: 43 good season.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think to me, I watched 43 and fell okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: The new air is headed in the right direction after the disastrous 41 and the clearly re-added 42 where they just did the best they could of what they had.
[SPEAKER_01]: 43 fell like smart decisions were made.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jess on his podcast with Mary and Pippin admitting mistakes, I'm like we're in the right direction then 44 happens and they were just like Jeff has an image of like
[SPEAKER_01]: of Corson, Carolyn, and Jam Jam on his chest on social media.
[SPEAKER_01]: You remember that?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's probably 25 was by putting those three on his chest.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were really high on the secret three, just like this is going to be a top to your season.
[SPEAKER_01]: MGM did not quit.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he didn't get medically evacuated.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll call him, GM, it's Matthew.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, Greenwall.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's just two Matthews.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's something, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so like, I'm just like, he's not a quit, but also he didn't get medically evacuated.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what happened, Jeff?
[SPEAKER_01]: He left him his own free will.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's that called?
[SPEAKER_01]: He went with a broken shoulder.
[SPEAKER_01]: If 43 to me, follow where you're moving the right direction, I had a good time with that season.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just want to give perspective, because 41 disaster 42, okay, they're clearly just like pandering.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're doing the best they can.
[SPEAKER_01]: 43, good direction, 44.
[SPEAKER_01]: What, I'm glad this was not an item in episodes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so Jam Jam here, it was lucky that it wasn't an item in episodes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jam Jam, Carolyn and Carson are this entire season.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the whole season.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were the whole season, Franny and Matt's storyline is there for a little.
[SPEAKER_00]: They could have done so much more with Danny.
[SPEAKER_00]: They could have done so much more with Heidi.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they could have done so much more with Lauren.
[SPEAKER_00]: They could have done so much more with Cain, maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, Cain was kind of a weird casting.
[SPEAKER_01]: First Cain?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got invited by Jeff?
[SPEAKER_00]: Butchered they they over corrected so extreme and we're like great.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are our three characters.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then what's funny is they build up these three characters like they're going to be the faces of the new era and then they don't put any of them on season 50.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now you go back and watch season 44.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody from that season returns for season 50 and you're watching three characters get edited as if it's big Tom likes an Ethan from Africa.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or it's it's it's bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's really Darryl Seymour says it's a ghost island situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jam Jam's game is very good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I can't even knock Jam Jam's game, but this season's rough.
[SPEAKER_01]: Contextually, 44 was, and people were at the time, hyping it up, like it was every week people like this, a fantastic season, fantastic characters.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's only in retrospect to people realize, I don't know, I think you saw a time to film, like I'm like, we're watching it to your season at best.
[SPEAKER_01]: Best, this is a mid tier season.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not a great season, this is worse than 43, but,
[SPEAKER_01]: This was not realized at the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: What has happened since 44 everybody, here we go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Carson no longer even watched his survivor has been, he told that to me himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I asked if he wanted to help in a video.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, oh, I don't even watch show anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, they're mine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, I probably reached out to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, I like you need to add in the past.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the same with Rome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why it was Rome ever been in a video mine because Rome asked.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I will put you in yeah, I think it's pretty fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I have no if so if a player asks unless it stands below or Michael scoop and I'll say yes like you want to feel free sounds good to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: The public idle in the bird case.
[SPEAKER_01]: The bird case.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, who idea by the way haven't brought that back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there is an arrow in absolutely Demolish such a great job with that put in the ice there.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's potential there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope that comes back in the open era But anyways, Carson no longer watched survivor laughed out of community because of the perception of ceiling puzzles
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the you're looking to that as much as you want.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's two sides of the story frankly, but anyways, then Carolyn goes on the traders.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, can't bring her back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jam Jam doesn't get put on 50, which I thought was wild.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he goes on the traders.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's probably not going to add some back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Though he wasn't asked back anyways.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you're right, these people were like, this will be like the face of the new era.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they just like, nope.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, forget them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the time, I think fans were so hungry for a great season that they acted like this was a great season.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was wearing live because nobody wanted to admit that 43 was great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because so many people were still riding that like 43's awful, 43's trash, 43's this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we all knew 41 and 42 weren't that good.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, so everybody was just, you know, the online group think of it all was like, hey 43's not a very good season, which in my opinion isn't true.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love 43 and then you get the 44 and everybody said see this is so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look we're getting these characters are getting this and then you look predictable.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah, we got three good characters, and we watched the most predictable of seasons, and it's very stale, and I always have a hard time ranking Jam Jam's win.
[SPEAKER_00]: I ranked him at 35, maybe on a rewatch, I'll rank him higher.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, Jam Jam doesn't do anything necessarily wrong in the whole season, but I don't think he ever really does anything all that right the whole season either.
[SPEAKER_00]: He just made an alliance with Carson and Carolyn, which I think is his best move in the game, and he just rides that to the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, since you mentioned where you ranked a Morty thing, uh, the fans on my channel ranked them 26.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, he's closer to your ranking 32.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, and by the way, he's been dropping every year.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the first year to the rankings he was seven filled, believe you're not seven.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Reasonsy buys coming out 44 is unreal.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how I have like literal proof showing the Reasonsy buys.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was seven.
[SPEAKER_00]: He also also had one of the biggest edits of any winner ever hit everyone confessionals was I think is the third or fourth most in the history of the show for a winner and it was like the seventh best percentage.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we all watched him and I think people were also hungry for that you're ranking winners.
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't see 41 Marianne people are conflicted on him and people didn't feel they saw Gabriel.
[SPEAKER_00]: So where are they going to do?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're cranking up.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're cranking up.
[SPEAKER_01]: But now he's down to 32 last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was 24.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he dropped eight spots for no reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, right, nothing's happened with Jan, he was on the traitors and people, some people didn't like how he was on the traitors.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he was dropping.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been dropping every year.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think he's finally reached the place where he's falling.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just going to hang out there in the 30s.
[SPEAKER_01]: Further notice.
[SPEAKER_01]: 44.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think 44 ranks as a season?
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go with 39.
[SPEAKER_01]: 41, you're very close right above a right below Fiji right above world apart.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think world's a part of the both teams.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, oh man.
[SPEAKER_01]: World's a part is so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jam Jam, how many votes is the off a perfect game?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it just one seven?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he's on.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if he was one, we'd be talking about next to Gable in terms of static stroke.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: James Jam had a very clear premerge storyline similar to Gableers, where he's versus Josh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jam Jam versus Josh is the Gabriel versus Ellie storyline.
[SPEAKER_01]: They do a lot of this like when the Suicide's backtrack They do a lot of like rhyming like that, you know, it's like George Lucas said it all comes full circle.
[SPEAKER_01]: All rhymes ready instead of up prequels Anyways, they do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes us the key
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to point out 41-42 so Philly said that like it was, I think it was spoiled.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember some time when the season people were like posting the entire bootlist and perfect order and it was like so annoying.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hate when people get out of here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go like what are you doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: I just delete all those.
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyways the 41 so they have the intro before Jeff says 26 days or whatever he says welcome the new air after the race says now he doesn't say 39 days, 18 players anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: But whenever Jeff has that segment, right before it, the last three people they showed was Erica Deshawn and Exander.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the final three.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was last three people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then a 42 before Jeff talked, it was Tori Jonathan and Mary Ann.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was like in the exact order that they did with, and I thought, I thought, okay, Erica's last person showed, they showed that was the winner.
[SPEAKER_01]: Deshawn got second, Zander got third.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like in that order.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, okay, so Mary Ann wins, Jonathan gets second, who knew that Jonathan would eventually a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's second and Tori it's third or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like, that's why he went.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so, or so I she went.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so wrong about the why I was correct, but my math was wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: My work was, show your work.
[SPEAKER_01]: My work was wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: My answer was right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just wrote QED at the bottom.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't know if you ever did that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like California is a short QE day.
[SPEAKER_01]: So show your work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would like to not do that, please.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, 43.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to say it like it felt like they rhymed here with the, and maybe it's just how worked out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, but gave for Sally is the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels very similar to Jan, Jim versus Josh except gave her for Sally.
[SPEAKER_01]: was more fun to watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jan Javers Josh was kind of like, Jan Jav was going to win.
[SPEAKER_01]: He had Carson and Carol in the whole time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even post-stripswap, I think they were still together.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause this season had, oh, no, Carson flipped.
[SPEAKER_01]: Carson flipped.
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't go in one or three times in the tripswap.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, one, it was a rotation.
[SPEAKER_01]: One person was dumb is what it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they did it, it happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it screwed Josh, if I recall, we're screwed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: because Josh flipped.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that thing Josh wasn't even present for every episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: Josh versus Jam Jam was just like a two episode arc or three episode arc.
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't like the entire thing like Ellie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because Josh actually goes home at the at the merge.
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't go at the Sarah who goes home because Josh plays an idol or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: 44.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have watched it since, but it's just Jam Jam's game.
[SPEAKER_01]: It really feels like a story ends where Josh
[SPEAKER_01]: Similar to Gable or some might say until the fight like the book Jam Jam felt like it was certain this is what's going to happen Everyone knew about the match hat, so we all knew it was me Jam Jam Matthew, not MGM, but Matthew, or Franny, I forgot who the other person was Or maybe it was MGM, Franny and Jam Jam, and then MGM goes in the pre-marge, I forgot and Franny said it wasn't big enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: It never felt like she was a legitimate threat to Wayne like she plays the adult correctly for Brandon to go home But it never feels like she's a legitimate threat to Wayne.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at everything now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Jam Jam's best move, like I said, probably getting with everybody, but honestly, it might also be at the travel council where they're split convincing Brandon and Jamie that it's better to keep him than keep Matt because that's the one where, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: Heidi gets to control the vote or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so she controls Lorenzo, I think it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Jam Jam should go home there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if they were playing their survivor, Jam Jam goes home right there.
[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't a ghost island that fast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like I feel like Jam Jam that's probably as best move is like convincing everybody that that he's worth keeping around.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think it's
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it him who wins immunity?
[SPEAKER_00]: He wins immunity right at the end and takes it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's Carol.
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's Heidi.
[SPEAKER_00]: Heidi wins and puts herself in fire.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And smart.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care much for Heidi.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's really because the only thing I remember about her was she tried doing an analogy one time talking about picking up people in a bus and driving in a felt so forced.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like Jeff didn't care for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, Oh, finally, we're past analogies.
[SPEAKER_01]: Boy, it was iron, it was analogies.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're a big part of these seasons, forced analogies.
[SPEAKER_01]: It felt natural and edge of exchange with people talking about being pastures and pilots, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: But man, by the time we got to 43, I was like, oh, we stopped with analogies, they're forced.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we forward, Heidi did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she sets the record from firemaking.
[SPEAKER_01]: She beats Gabler.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think she has the record.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they stopped giving them the same supplies to practice whether something that changed it after Heidi, but Heidi sets the record.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is Johan, by the way, he says West is a goat, just stopping by to say, all right, keep up the good work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Joe, one, I think it's Johan, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you the dreamer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, I always don't want his name.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like he changed his photo if that is him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I'm through.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's Johan though.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, thanks, Johan, if that's you.
[SPEAKER_00]: because he's, yeah, it is, it's shawan.
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go, see, I knew it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jawan, I knew it, but then the picture, I feel like it's a different picture than it was last time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, okay, so you're on with halbs, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Jawan, you come back tomorrow, 10 a.m. Eastern, you can wake up at seven a.m. What's on your season, Jawan?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we'll talk about how you went through Saman's bag.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Saman is like, how dare you do that?
[SPEAKER_00]: So does he have a, does Jam Jam have a bad move?
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I can't think of a single bad move.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it really, if luck was on his side, he had the right alliance, he had a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: He just had a lot going for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the thing is, Jam Jam's very care, had a lot of charisma.
[SPEAKER_01]: He and file tribal made a lot of people laugh.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really think his best move was his final tribal was a really, really good tribal.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're making the jury laugh, you were doing something right.
[SPEAKER_01]: The jury is not bitter towards you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know he doesn't get all eight votes.
[SPEAKER_01]: but he does get seven of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it felt like the jury was on a side.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know the past three winners also went 710, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, he also, he never had a chance to get to that end.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Danny was never going to vote for him because Danny was always going to vote for Heidi because the two of them were really, really close to the whole season, so that was always going to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we can't go perfect there.
[SPEAKER_00]: People are saying like in here, maybe it's like his personality.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tatiana Marano edits Rob C at the same ping in that I had about Jam Jam's game.
[SPEAKER_00]: and he said that he got involved in unnecessary conflicts.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had him at six of the new era winners.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have Hiros saying, Jam Jam Bad move is on the outs of the Sarah blind side.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, kind of, but also not really, because if Josh doesn't play the idol, then Sarah, our Josh probably does go there, but like Carolyn and Josh vote for Sarah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Carolyn probably flips her vote and he wanted Josh out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't know how bad that is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just kind of didn't work out because Josh played the idol.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think it is probably that he makes some,
[SPEAKER_00]: Some unnecessary enemies, but I don't really feel like any of that stands out enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like he's a pretty damn good at it
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so crazy how do you got second and Carolyn got third because if you really doesn't feel like how do you got second and Carolyn got third, how do you get it horrible on the season yeah yeah Carolyn such a prominent edit where she's like you she's so smart but then in person can't articulate herself at all but then in confessional articles yourself very well and does the exact same thing on the traders where in person she's stumbling letting other people walk all over her but then in fact fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Carolyn, both times, I've seen him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what's funny about Carolyn here, you have Franny saying, Carolyn, when I get older, I want to be like you.
[SPEAKER_00]: She votes for Dan Jam.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like she says that after, it just blows my mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: What she's saying is that she's not a winner, Phil.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, she got that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to be like you want to grow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not a winner.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't get it man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can take a deep breath.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like sitting hunched my back is kill me.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I hear you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I don't understand that logic from Franny there.
[SPEAKER_00]: That blows.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that blows my mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like Heidi.
[SPEAKER_00]: How you as a very good mind for the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had Heidi on the podcast one time.
[SPEAKER_00]: She knows her shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a huge fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know she's been on Tyson's a couple times.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure about R. A. P.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you know him, how do you know him like a place when or second place spot the problem is she didn't have the opportunity to do enough on that season and jam jams game was just a little bit more obvious, but I just I don't know I got to rewatch 44 and maybe I'll have a different appreciation for jam jams game, but at this point I'm just kind of like it's a shoulder shrug win for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a great the the other thing it goes back to this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's jam jam actually play a really good game, or does the edit just have an easy time editing him because he's a top tier character in the history.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a great character.
[SPEAKER_01]: He reminds me of Marianne in terms of like how easy it was to give him a good story, or to like keep him front and center because he was such a great character.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he was like as much as amazing character.
[SPEAKER_01]: People don't like jam jam or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a big character and a good character this season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think he's one of the best characters in the history of the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I sit here and I look at him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, of course, they're going to be able to give him a big at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a great character.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can't say the same for some of the other winners.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that doesn't mean he's a better player.
[SPEAKER_00]: There just means a better character.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we need to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go to the end of Lauren and Carolyn Heidi has a decent shot of winning.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know much about Lauren because they have that thing where it's like a sweet band in the background.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember the first boot of the finale, therefore you were not going to give you a big at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you watched that video by the match end?
[SPEAKER_00]: Kyle does some stuff for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's been doing a better thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should watch it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: He talks about fifth place at it and hell.
[SPEAKER_00]: And how like it is very clear that there is a specific fifth place out of like if you go out at fifth, you're either the first boot of the post merge or of the finale, which like isn't that exciting or you're the second boot of the finale, which means your overshadowed by
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you're sandwiched in between two votes or a fire and a vote and stuff like that is very interesting because you see it when you watch the show the fifth place added is a very real thing and you can pick up on it almost immediately when a season starts.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be, if Joann still here, I want to be, if I go on the show, not going to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've already criticized Survivor 1's, that's too many times.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I was, I want to be on the show, and I want to say something that makes Joann, or somebody like Joann react to the times of Ann, I told him, oh no, what's his name?
[SPEAKER_01]: Matt's a psychopath, because he did finance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Joann's like, seriously?
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to make somebody do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the moment I would like to have.
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to have something like, like, that's, yeah, Joann's here.
[SPEAKER_01]: You said he's here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Joann, that when you react to like that Savannah, I want to make somebody react like that to me on survivor.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a, that was a funny moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Off topic.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just because Joann's here.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just because Joann's making a stray off of winning survivor.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
[UNKNOWN]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man, Jam Jam.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jam Jam's at it was clear.
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes to the file three.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only way Heidi wins against Lauren and
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did apply Joanne.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't have never called me back.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I've criticized the show too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: There it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but Joanne talked about applying.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to pass about the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a very chance that I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Joanne talked to Joanne and I talked about that once.
[SPEAKER_00]: He thinks he I think his words were he thinks I'd be I'd probably piss some people off and I was like,
[SPEAKER_01]: That's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't I don't think they cast for that though.
[SPEAKER_00]: They used to We'll get them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't don't ruin my chances West.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've already ruined them myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Give me another chance to To a I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and, and unfortunately, I think 44 is actually the prime example of we're going to rob anyone the wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: New Eric has been went wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Carolyn was this amazing character who was going to get an accommodation, but there's nobody will any get in confrontation back.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought that was wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So 44, it's just very mid-season.
[SPEAKER_01]: I best, Jam Jam, a great character.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Jam Jam on a better season gets ranked higher.
[SPEAKER_01]: If he wins a different season, like, let's say Jam Jam wins 45, 46, 47, generally agreed upon the better seasons of the new era.
[SPEAKER_01]: At least in my opinion, those are the best season in the new era.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if he wins one of those, like, oh, Jam Jam is a ranked higher.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think just like we talked about the other winners, seems like the season, while it's not always the case.
[SPEAKER_01]: It can affect your winner ranking.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Tommy, she hands a good example of that Brian.
[SPEAKER_00]: Heidi's a good example of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that Jam Jam probably ends up being good example of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's jump over to 45 now context once we get in context throughout the entire new era.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, this is the writer's strike.
[SPEAKER_01]: They knew this was happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: They 45.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was definitely a big marketing push bill.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you would you saw this as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were putting buffs on statues in L.A. and New York.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were just like, there's a lot more marketing for 45 and I think it's because
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if it's because CBS was like, well, we have less shows to market.
[SPEAKER_01]: Therefore, it was a bigger budget for Survivor Show.
[SPEAKER_01]: They can have longer episodes, but there's definitely a bigger push.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this season, 45, is really good through the Bruce Boot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, until it once Bruce leaves, kind of like I'll show an app back when Jerry goes, the season kind of like,
[SPEAKER_01]: goes downhill.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think through the Bruce Boot, this is a really good season.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also love the finale though.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the moment I get to have a marketing this 45 had Bruce.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like though, I actually really like this season pretty much throughout because I like the move of Detailing Julie to play the idol and then how that impacts the finale and the final five and then I think it is a really great final three I know that if felt obvious, he was gonna win, but when you're actually watching the season like I think Austin Dominates in terms of confessional county just wasn't saying as much as D that was a really close final vote
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think ultimately Jake would have ended up voting for D. So D was going to win the season of what.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's still like a really, really, really exciting ending.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a fan of this, like this, this season.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a fan of D's game.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that D,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we talked about kind of the evolution here, like Jam Jam, even though he gets a lot of Confessionals, he plays an under the radar game.
[SPEAKER_00]: D managed to plan under the radar game where she was in control of everything the entire time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is something we didn't see from the first four winners of the new era.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's ultimately why rank D higher than everybody else, because when it comes to this game,
[SPEAKER_00]: D comes out and she plays and we know that she has an impact on everyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's not just voting correctly on the votes.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's one of the reasons that everything is happening, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so yes, she's part of the read before, but she's the head of the read before as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And her and Julie have the relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she has such good relationships with everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can already tell you right at the bat.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say these off the bat so that we can have the full discussion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Her best move is absolutely telling Julie to play the idol and keeping that secret
[SPEAKER_00]: her worst move is the very end where she almost goes home in that 211 vote and she should have went home.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, she had to approach that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she was gone if Gatorra played a logical game absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: And and Gatorra gave us context for why she did what she did but it's like
[SPEAKER_01]: logically it was the wrong move though.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well and it's it's also very similar to like when Hannah Shapiro gives her context in 33 yeah okay you're giving your context while you're getting rid of Brett over David but it's still wrong like it's the wrong move and that's how this felt here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Katura made the wrong move but while that is D's where it's moved to be in that position and almost go home there and should have went home she also had good enough relationship with Katura and then she doesn't go home and she's able to survive.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not luck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: comfortable, comfortable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, I was going to say strong, but I wasn't right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of full enough to do what Jake was asking, because Jake, we knew what was really going to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: We knew Jake's intentions, but Katura was like, I can't fully trust Jake, which is another bad move for Jake, it's why he gets zero votes at the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't seem like he was going to be, I made a Jake video by the way, he got picked.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a year or so ago by a winner of our fancy league and I realized that Jake was not didn't really have much of a story.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really Katura who had a story and Jake was an auxiliary part of her story which is wild because Jake was a big character just he did not have a story.
[SPEAKER_01]: So de-hattie story in fact they made sure to prop up the like de-hattie had the big toe thing and it's much like absolute two and a pays off later that's setting stuff up that pays off later
[SPEAKER_01]: This I do really do like that the winner is prevalent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think where the show has gone wrong is they've we saw in 50 the contenders for the crown for the winning title sole survivor should also have this similar edge to the winner.
[SPEAKER_01]: There should be multiple winner edits so that we don't know, okay, well this person's won the game because of Sierra Professional's for example.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dees the first time they didn't don't don't do the match-chat.
[SPEAKER_01]: They actually almost feels like the match-chat at 45 was a joke Just like mess with everybody like it was not the match-chat as we knew it even though they probably didn't earn a normal match-chat as they always do
[SPEAKER_01]: D though when I'm I think when Sean quits D is shown front and center like I would never quit I would never do that I am here to win I'm here to play it's like stuff like here's an opportunity to prop up your future winner and like Sean quits D's like I would never I would never even consider that
[SPEAKER_00]: And this season, um, I like what you're saying about that with Sean, but I also like what you're saying about what the edit and how they didn't make it as obvious.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's where 90 minutes really helped the entire final seven has a confessional in every episode they're in.
[SPEAKER_01]: So 50 they forgot to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, 50 they forgot to do that, but they also 24 and they didn't know what they were doing, but it's fun to hear me because it's cream thought.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, with this final seven, like you, I never felt like Catera or Julie were truly going to win because I felt like Catera's at it was way too one note and Julie's at it was, you know, just not strong enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, the whole final seven had a confession on every episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: So technically, they're still all on the table going down to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I am looking at it, D ended up with 63.
[SPEAKER_00]: Katura actually gets more confessional than her, but again, they're all like, Bruce is a bully.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bruce is mean.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bruce is, I'm like, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Katura versus Bruce's storyline is 10 out of 10.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every moment of that storyline, that's your thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Carl has 65 and then Austin actually ends up with the most with 71.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yes, it was easier to give more confessional because you're talking 90 minute episodes along finale, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, but this was a very, this to me people will say 45 didn't really need this because some of the boats get predictable.
[SPEAKER_00]: I disagree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that the 90 minute episodes of 45 showed what 90 minutes can be for survivor.
[SPEAKER_00]: What survivor can be when it's more time.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get a much more even edited season.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's much more compelling to watch.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's great to have good tests to have a cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry John, but 449, the cast could not make the 90 minutes work.
[SPEAKER_00]: So actually the 49 cast is strong for who made it deep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the problem is there was a lot of filler that went early.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, we'll talk about that tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying 45.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good thing 45 46 47 happened because it really sold us on the 90 minutes Whereas like 48 was like, oh, no, maybe That should have been 25 minute episodes.
[SPEAKER_00]: That should have been like the night of the seven kingdoms compared to game of thrones.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what that's
[SPEAKER_01]: It was 45 though, yes, the 90 minutes were gold, I can't remember an episode where it felt slow until I think after Bruce, when I started going, okay, but I will say, Phil, so something that wasn't, so when the match hat went, everyone was like, okay, what's the tell for who the winner is?
[SPEAKER_01]: Besides the obvious of just seeing who has a consistent storyline, for example, one of those was, they brought back the theme song, and D had the highest name,
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was a tell I by the way that that's me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just like, that's icing on the cake That's me's not enough to go off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I Dehatty sob story fell you needed a sob story to win.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe through 46 47 stop that trend as well Because it was becoming like the match-out everyone knew it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You needed it because Drew's sob story was in a secret scene Drew can't win.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like the sob story became the new match-out and we all recognize their 45.
[SPEAKER_01]: 46 and say dropped after 46 being required Rachel didn't have one
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, they finally, they were moving away from it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think when like two people had it in 47 or something, but in 4546 it was still a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've already had it, but a lot of people did.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and so d high substrate and that was like that was one of the tells.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Austin also had one as well Of course he was only two votes off healing.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was only one vote away from winning survivor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's but like I don't think he thinks I broke Jake picks off Yeah, no, I think Jake picks D but like that is what's compelling about it because it looks like it You know, he loses by two because it's an even number of people voting
[SPEAKER_00]: really like he could have been as close as Dom to when he's survivor.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's one vote away from being as close as Dom.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing with Charlie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's kind of what people miss.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's this is essentially a four three lost.
[SPEAKER_00]: There just happens to be eight people voting.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to mention maybe it's not worse move because you're already talked about best source move for D. Her telling Bruce, her like the way she joked on Bruce
[SPEAKER_01]: did not endear Bruce of her turn at all where he's Bruce like she like dang Bruce should have played the idol and like I know that's these personality but like that's not Bruce's personality.
[SPEAKER_01]: She misread Bruce hard and so it wasn't like a Brian hiding situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like Brian knew the votes he needed and how to get that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't get that vibe from D. I don't think she was like why don't need Bruce's vote?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he was just being herself and Bruce did not
[SPEAKER_01]: they did not, they were not, it was oil and water a bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're moment with this season, I love, by the way, off topic, I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Once it's when they did playing with the boys, like, there's no, yeah, that was actually a good force moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Unlike boys on the bench, playing with the boys was a top tier moment that like, the show was having fun, the show was having fun, and we had fun along with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: It worked.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I wanted to I wanted to mention I agree with you on that, but I wanted to mention going into that final travel council if he doesn't have the Julie moment where she had the idol and everything like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: and and told her about the idol and was able to raise her hand and say I knew about that she probably loses this season because I see this from Darrell Simmer that says Kelly was always going to vote for a women.
[SPEAKER_00]: I totally agree with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Kelly was locked in, but Caleb could have voted Austin and Julie could have voted Austin and Emily could have voted Austin.
[SPEAKER_01]: This jury could have picked Austin as the winner.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was not late.
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't it wasn't like high walking into file travel with feminist t-shirt.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it wasn't like, okay, well, obviously.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think what he needed because if let's say the Julie thing doesn't happen, then D isn't guaranteed to get Julie's vote.
[SPEAKER_00]: If that's not there, like Emily and Caleb and Julie and Catera all kind of voted for Austin, like this could have been a seven one, this could have been a six two, this could have been a five three, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Austin had a chance at this final tribal and I think that's where it is impactful that he didn't read everybody right And I think that bleeds into her 50 game.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that for a smooth as D's 45 game is I think she does get a little full of herself She feels herself a little too much where
[SPEAKER_00]: She thinks that everybody is just on her side all the time and I do think that she has a killer personality that absolutely is going to resonate, but I also think that you know on 50 we saw some of the blemishes where she did get wrong reads on people and that's why she goes out where she does or that's why she's budding heads with people like Jonathan Jonathan is really setting her up for failure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we saw her too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she's, I mean, she's a Cuban from Miami.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, like, she's going to be confrontation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I lived down there for a while and like, I went to school down there and like, I mean, you know, that's just like kind of the personality is like, hey, I'm, you're going to curse at me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to curse back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, screw you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that matters.
[SPEAKER_00]: But she misread Bruce, I think a hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it almost cost her.
[SPEAKER_00]: She didn't dominate at the final strike but the way we all thought she was going to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I will say that after this season ended, we talked about during Wendell segment, but I'm gonna mention here because it affected her ranking, I believe it did.
[SPEAKER_01]: The recent advice of though her in Wendell situation, being revealed of her helping Wendell cheat on his baby mama.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're both a fall, by the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still don't remember where she'd there, but go ahead.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he was with his baby mama, then he cheated on her with the, that's how it was presented, and when it'll apologize for it, which means that the men's of guilt.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, I'm not a jury or a judge.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying, in effect, it's not an executioner, is what it sounds like.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a judge here.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm just saying like I feel like she was ranked so low, and I feel like her 45 game play and Sorry, and everything should have had her higher fill and I feel like okay, so she was dogdogged on in the rankings for two years and after 50 all said she shot up So where do you think she's ranked?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, now I'm concerned based on what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think he's high now.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was like 13.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's exactly where she is.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's the third shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was 32 before 50 though.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing changed about her winning game, except people saw her in 50 and realized they like her or whatever it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing changed.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was, that's where she was.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was like 32, 34 around the area.
[SPEAKER_01]: both times she got ranked after 45, but then all set of 50 to 13.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm wondering if after 52, when I do these rankings again next year, we'll be like, finally get the true ranking of what D should be, except I feel like she's overinflated after 50.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like she was dogdogged on after 45, that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel like you've never got true rank, but it would be really, it's gonna land.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's gonna be annoying is her ranking next time is gonna be based on what she does on big brother.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: After you guys cycle big brother is going to impact it so she wins big brother or she finishes top three or something that's going to screw it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what you're probably right maybe I'll never get an honest ranking of DS 45 winning game because she's now becoming a CBS favorite by the good for her like good for her.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was on a business race whatever you know like to somebody's got to finish the trifecta and I almost feel like.
[SPEAKER_01]: Survivors not going to make that happen if that makes it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jeff's never going to be like, well, you've been on Big Brother Amazing Race.
[SPEAKER_01]: Time to finish the trifecto with us.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we start the trifecto.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's Jeff's attitude.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, great one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was walking at Survivor, but Jeff's like, no, that I've finished the trifecto.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not letting you be the first.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can't say Big Brother started.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to hear it?
[SPEAKER_00]: A true ranking of these Survivor 45 games I have it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, where do you have a ranked?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have her at 20, and then her combined ranking put her at 24.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a fair ranking.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think 20 to 24 is a fair ranking.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think 13's too high personally, and I think 32, 34, where she was, she was getting dog gods.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was down there with Wendell and Nick, who also fell as we talked about after people's perception of them change due to things outside of survivor in their winning game.
[SPEAKER_01]: 45 itself, 40, think it gets ranked.
[SPEAKER_01]: 27.
[SPEAKER_01]: Close 24.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right above Amazon, right below San Juan, Delser.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm surprised it's not ranked higher.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like recent sea.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like people really liked it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like then it kind of got people just started to say the story of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually boring.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that just caught on a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I think it's not boring.
[SPEAKER_01]: It more Bruce goes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it does go downhill.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think through the Bruce boot personally, this is a really good season.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's saying something because I did not think any new era season before.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like a really good season.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you were three.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, even with two quits, this is still good.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I think the two quits are, I mean, not really the Sean Quit as much.
[SPEAKER_01]: The whole first episode of Lulu being a mess and Hannah Quitting was like, I don't know people didn't like that, but I'm like, this is gold.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is TV gold.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I love this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Brandon being a massive mess and going up to two, I'm like, this is good story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and then some people are going to try to quit and then succeed, they lose.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's good story.
[SPEAKER_00]: the story of going on survive was unbelievably strong and actually it was cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Clayton plays the shot in the dark and negates what 12 votes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the only time I felt like the shot in our like fulfilled what the show wanted when they made it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know it's it saved one other person.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can't remember who was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Caleb's only notable one in 90s.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mary.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember this thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Was that Mary in 48?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, because I know it got successful played in 44 but like
[SPEAKER_00]: or whatever, but didn't affect about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a good season up to the Bruce boot after that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Opinions may vary, but good season.
[SPEAKER_01]: D's a strong winner has very notable as a personality.
[SPEAKER_01]: It stands out from others.
[SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't just blend in where we were talking about like being under the Raiders is a good thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: D was under the Raider, but also D was not afraid of
[SPEAKER_01]: showing her she was in control.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she was not afraid to like to embrace the nonsense and that's probably why she's brought back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the other thing with D is D was willing to be in control, but didn't need everybody to know that she was in control.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's important.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what Kyle did, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why Kyle wins 48.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually think Kyle and D played very similar games, which is why I also rank Kyle very high as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they play very similar games and we'll get
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't need to tell everybody at every moment that you're in control, you just need them to believe it when you do tell them and that's what D did and when D says that at final tribal, they all believe her and because she's not blowing smoke up their ass.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's actually telling the truth.
[SPEAKER_00]: Boom.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's done.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, D's a good winner, I think, well, as you said, she'll be at her big brother, we'll affect her ranking too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I ever get a true ranking for the fans.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's a true rankings?
[SPEAKER_01]: A half of you what I think it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think she's been over-flated and dogged on depending on the year.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've never, I feel like it just never happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can ever got a real ranking of her.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a shame.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I hope it eventually happens, but D at the region is going, she'll finish the trifecta.
[SPEAKER_01]: She did survive with her brother.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think amazing race fill has the ego that they care if they're the ones that finish the trifecta.
[SPEAKER_00]: The real question is going to be who does D run the amazing race with?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and that'll be that'll be the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: She needs to have somebody to run with.
[SPEAKER_01]: her in devins.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: They could.
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll finish it together.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll finish it together.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what's going to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's going to be somebody from Big Brother.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's going to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, who's going to be?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: to be in her own career.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a tip from 46.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that would be good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tiffy would definitely be grown on the maze race.
[SPEAKER_01]: For those for those wondering, yes, and also, a major story was her and Austin turns out she was early in Austin, the way he was in her, and then Austin, I was taking Jeff Probs niece, and they didn't really work out post show.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a major storyline.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like their presents as boss robbing Amber this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it just like it's kind of like it's not the same as when we talked about 33 and Taylor and what's really big.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I was like, and then the show was like, oh, how amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Ponderosa, wow, there's like no, it was, but in this case, it was kind of like, yeah, all this hype for nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Matt Franny had a legit relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're still together.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are still together, but that didn't get hyped up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want to say the tri-factor for this wondering is being on big brother, surviving an amazing race in whatever order, nobody's completed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've had people on survivor and amazing race.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've had people on survivor and big brother.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've had people on amazing race and big brother.
[SPEAKER_01]: But never, somebody on all three shows in their career.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not even Sari.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Sari's built for the amazing race by the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she would be first second boot and would be like,
[SPEAKER_01]: It would be so dumb.
[SPEAKER_01]: So so many people have gotten up to two and a three and I think it amazing to show where they don't have the ego that they're going to care if that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think they'll be fine with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it will be, I mean, decline Mount Kilimanjaro.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, you know, in season 30, one of the maze race, they had them cut them out full.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Fuji, Phil, do you know that?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I did not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was an inflatable downtown.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I did not.
[SPEAKER_00]: I watched that.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, because it was the, it was the crop overseas in the ass.
[SPEAKER_01]: See, that's what I mean, a maze race doesn't have the ego of survivor.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they would be totally fine, completely in the trifecta.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's going to, if they do, it's going to be a new era person, because it needs to be from the car cats and team.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's gonna, I think D and Tiffany guys mark my words.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that too.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's gonna be, uh, hey, I am for them doing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope 40 though, 39's gonna air in the fall for amazing race.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope 40's like an all-winner's thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: 41 is when I'm like, okay, I'm open to 39's already been done.
[SPEAKER_01]: 41's when I'm open to like, somebody can clean the trifecta for example.
[SPEAKER_01]: 40 should be in all winners.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope 40's all winners as somebody who has watched this much amazing race in the last three years.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I hope for you on amazing race is like, okay, all these people are good challenges and they're fast.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no weak teams, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless they're really old now, like there should be there should be no weak teams.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all winners.
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing race is not there's there's there's luck, but it's not the same as survivor like the luck is from Taxi's maybe but if you're good challenges and you're good directions, you're gonna running you're good at these things, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it doesn't vary season the season based on the rules.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, anyways, anyway, have a we'll see.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm I'm really I'm really looking forward to traders Amazing race and survival being on all the same time and the fall it's insane.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's common man.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's common.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it's gonna be a busy as fall so much for enjoying ourselves, huh?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'll enjoy myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm only gonna cover survivor.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm covering it in these areas.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll cover Trader's for sure, but I'll watch all three, but I only have enough time for one show in this case, the one that makes the most money straight up.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the one that makes the one that makes the one that's fast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fall by Trader's, fall by Amazing Race.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, Amazing Race doesn't really bring in very much.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but if occasionally, I'll drop an Amazing Race video, it does really well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just, I think it's more about timing with that show though, like it couldn't drop it now, and it needs to be during season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for inside baseball for those wondering, I haven't been to reach for about five or all the time, so that helps, but yeah, all right, Wes, we're doing this again tomorrow, 10 a.m. 9 a.m. Central 7 a.m. civic we're back and we're closing out the series with seasons 46 through 50 talking about more of the same in my opinion, but we'll get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you all for listening, like this video and subscribe to the channel, Wes, I'm not even going to ask what you're doing, because I'm going to ask tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing's happening between now and tomorrow morning.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a next month is all winners month on my channel.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've started promoting it today.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every video will be related to winners.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every video for the entire month of August, 13 videos.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, in the new era of casting, everybody's a winner was.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, anyway, we're out of here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you all so much for listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Become a patron, patreon.com slash specialist.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll see you all tomorrow morning.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.