[SPEAKER_01]: I did see a comment that someone left the other day where they said something about ladies love the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: You really need to rain in your bits.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who said that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Who said whoever you are, you must be new here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, that's not gonna happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, whoever you are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Peace and love.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you've got found the wrong show.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's so funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: This might not be the show for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like who said it.
[SPEAKER_01]: What was their name?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who said it?
[SPEAKER_00]: I might want to respond.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where did they live?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who said it?
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually, so I like to get a little happy in those comments.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to buy back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who said it?
[SPEAKER_01]: They took it too far.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who is saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's up, you guys, and welcome back to emotionally online, the weekly Slorp Party for Heart to Hearts and Hot Gossip, hosted by yours, Shirley.
[SPEAKER_00]: The one and only Maddie draw us back and back in our co-host cuck chair, you know where you lever.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Meg Ruoka from Coast to Coast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm the co-host.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're recording on a Sunday.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are, which is a little abnormal for us.
[SPEAKER_01]: We usually record on a Monday.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're feeling, if it feels,
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels vulnerable.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels raw.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're we're feeling ambitious this week.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Meg was party city this weekend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dude, it was that audio that was like, and then I have to party again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to wake up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to party again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say you said we're getting after it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was not getting after it yesterday yesterday.
[SPEAKER_01]: I woke up and I was in a fugue stay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how you managed to go to another party.
[SPEAKER_00]: We went to two parties on Friday and I left Irish goodbye out of the second party.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, much earlier.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in bed at a reasonable hour of megg.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe I fell asleep around 4am.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoa.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like fully in my bed tucked in by 11.30.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was one of our very good friends, uh, Tania's birthday shout out, Tania.
[SPEAKER_01]: Love you, Chatterton.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I had to make sure that it was a, it was a good one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so the B-day bash of the century.
[SPEAKER_01]: The B-day bash of the century, I made a point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the, here's the thing is like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I am the friend that leaves the party early like my friends typically when they go to like a second location That's when I know that we've kind of crossed the threshold into like gremlin hours right and that's when for me I'm like I'm good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't need like the latter half of this evening which typically will go from one to approximately six in the morning yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when I kind of call it, but when it's a bestie's birthday, you got to follow them to the to the beautiful end.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was locked in the entire night.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had approximately one million drinks.
[SPEAKER_01]: I woke up the next day and I was like, somehow I am going to have to rally to go to Hell's Kitchen for a birthday.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got that night as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: The way you actually couldn't have paid me to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: like to to rally is one thing to rally to get to hell's kitchen is another like it would be a hard cell if I was even just rallying to stay in bushway yeah two trains there no I would do it to trains there and then I did take an Uber back and we inexplicably were in so much traffic in the Uber back at one in the morning on a Saturday night
[SPEAKER_01]: What are people up to dude?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't fucking know, but you know what?
[SPEAKER_01]: I went I'm glad that I went I'm glad that I was able to celebrate my friends birthday in Hills kitchen I hadn't seen him in a while, so it was good to see him but oh my god I'm tired my body can't my body my body can't do this
[SPEAKER_00]: I keep forgetting what day it is because I feel like I've been violent with here visiting and so I was operating on like a weekend schedule in the middle of the week so now I feel it's Sunday and I feel like it's Thursday.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some at some point will be on a normal schedule but I think that'll be about 25 years from now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 25 years will be on a normal schedule.
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll be awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: And from now until then it's bus club, another club, another club, another club, another podcast, another podcast, 18 podcasts in a row.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ted talk another podcast another podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was explaining to someone the other day cuz I hadn't seen this person in a little bit And they were like, they're like, oh, like what's up with you?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's what's new and I was like, yeah, so I'm doing this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like here's my day job and then I'm doing you know the podcast Then I'm actually doing another post so it's two podcasts ultimately and they were like they were like when do you just kind of like hang out And I was like, I I don't think I know like that's what the podcast is that's what really
[SPEAKER_00]: It really we've actually we don't have time to hang out with other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: We actually only have time to hang out with each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just this or I'm going to a birthday party.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what my life is about.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's birthday parties and this is the podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, Meg and I are having too much fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: We actually like can't hang out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, we can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because unless you have a birthday and then we'll like go because it's your birthday.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll go because the birthday we care about you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Apparently everyone that I know is either a cancer or a capricorn.
[SPEAKER_01]: because in January, I am constantly going to birthday parties and in July and August, I am constantly going to birthday parties.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what is that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think I know anyone that's a capricorn or Aquarius.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like my
[SPEAKER_00]: everyone that I know is born from like July to October.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Pretty much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and then there's like outliers throughout the rest of the year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I love when your birthday comes around because there's nothing surrounding everything ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like everyone says that and it's every and I think that's why I feel like usually around my birthday people really do match the energy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's because like who has a birthday in March right beginning of March everyone's there to just celebrate Like the winter right or like actually I'm dying to have a good time Yeah, it's also like the turn of the season like this year on my birthday it was like nice enough for us to be hanging outside on the mar Um, which was awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like it's it's um, it's an opportune time for a birthday It's really really fun March as a month to have a birthday
[SPEAKER_01]: but it's a really good birthday month.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will say I don't think I have a good birthday month, but that said I do love my birthday.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well it's like your birthday month is hard because it's like the vibes are good.
[SPEAKER_00]: vibes are high for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, the reason the vibes are good are because there's a major holiday that does kind of overshadow the entire month.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's kind of gearing up for Christmas and everyone is having
[SPEAKER_01]: one million birthday, not birthday, but holiday parties.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm kind of trying to like shoehorn in a birthday at that time.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I love being a Sagittarius.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love a December 10th birthday.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the thing is, I ultimately just, if I am trying to do something with like a big group, because I've also kind of, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: shifted my birthday approach as I've got an older like I very much so go I think what similarly to you like spa vibes and then if I try to do like if I'm doing like a friend dinner that's like totally cute and fun if I am trying to do big birthday blow out I try to make it as easy on people as possible yeah I say let's all go to a bar we meet here we drink we have fun we all laugh we go home
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, we all go home.
[SPEAKER_01]: We all go home.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's an important part.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I won't be going home out my own birthday.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, of course not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think it's important on a birthday.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it actually people need to leave.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the part we don't talk about enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like you can't all be in the final group.
[SPEAKER_00]: An important part of manners, I think is actually knowing like where you are in the future system to leave.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that it's like some people will feel really bad about leaving.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like actually you needed to leave.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: You needed to leave
[SPEAKER_00]: The whole group can't go to the second location and like to get to that smaller group at the end of a birthday party is actually like the best part of it totally to me Yeah, so I kind of love when people leave.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it cuz it can't you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It cannot be you every time now you have to know your place You have to know you have to have a sense of decorum totally so that you go Bye-bye.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't my journey.
[SPEAKER_00]: My time is up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep other people center stage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect
[SPEAKER_01]: I completely agree with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really, because I used to host a lot of parties, because I famously had lived with three roommates, so we had pretty big places where we lived, and I would throw house parties a lot, and like, man, the people that overstayed their welcome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, getting pretty late huh.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like three in the morning.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, should we play another game of beer pong and I'm like, no Okay, but it really does require such discernment because I've also felt that some nice people understand they're welcome.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true And I'll be like, okay, you were actually supposed to be one of the final standing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you left way too early.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how I felt.
[SPEAKER_01]: We went to our beautiful friend Tina's birthday the other night.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the birthday that we went to before before my friend Tania's.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I felt so bad because we couldn't stay longer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh no, we did.
[SPEAKER_01]: We understood.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Tina, girl, if you're listening, Tina, we love you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Next birthday, we're there.
[SPEAKER_01]: The whole time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're literally living at your birthday party.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna have to get in the walls.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We hit Tina's party.
[SPEAKER_00]: We went to Tonya's party at the end right before I left.
[SPEAKER_00]: There I was at my end, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I popped an edible, and we were dancing on the dance floor.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there was this man who did try to come and join us.
[SPEAKER_00]: He seemed pretty significantly older than every other person in the place.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I did do a little bit of slew thing about who this guy was.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a man there, the man, the dapper man in the suit and the pain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: That I believe was the owner.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the guy who tried to dance with us, I believe was the owner's son.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, this would make sense to me because they were both old men.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't appear to fit in with either of the crowd that were at this place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where did they come from?
[SPEAKER_01]: Who are these guys?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, really inexplicable, but I do believe that they were tied to the supper club somehow.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, one of them did try to kind of come in and join art.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually felt so awkward.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the thing about this dance floor, too, is that it's lined with mirrors.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you feel like you're in a dance studio.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can see him coming.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just...
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like we're like dancing and then I turn and I face the mirror and I just like see him slowly Itching close there and I'm like I don't want to look at him right because I don't want to like I don't want to dance No, so I'm like trying to avert eye contact, but you really can't with the mirror So I'm like I don't know where to look
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just keep like spinning in place and it's like simply because we can't We're trying to anywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're trying to create like a dyed A wide area for us for people to kind of screw around us.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it was so funny It was also hilarious because hilarious and like a saddening way where I we were having so much fun Like it was like pretty much an empty dance floor in this like big venue Which is my preferred dance totally
[SPEAKER_01]: I love to spin around, I love to just kind of like run around on a dance floor, and we were having a grand old girly time, and then this fucking man.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, with peace and love, with peace and love, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Please don't go to this we don't like please we're just having I don't know what I'm not over here to know and you know Not tonight.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're just think about me and this is my vibe almost a hundred percent of the time What I'm a public spaces like I love the like idea of potentially not that this guy was ever on the chopping block because he looks like 40 years are seeing you're certainly
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's also a part of me that's like, I don't think I'll ever meet someone and like out and about in life either because I feel so I'll never meet a man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me amend that statement.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because when a man approaches me in like a public bar space, I'm always like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I feel like I bug out instantly even if they're cute even if they're hot in any way I'm like you can be hot and I'm still suspicious of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's you can't fool me like it's like I feel like I don't know We've evolved as a species and I'm like I know your tricks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're gorgeous And you think that I'm gonna just not notice that you're a venomous snake.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm Okay, I know you're little tricks
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think unless I make the first move, I'm gonna reject every person that ever approaches me Public forever unless it's a woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then how about it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah Ladies you know if you know what women you can do it everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and here's what I'll say men women Both of you you got a chance with me
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, men, you unfortunately do have to wait for me to make the first one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, the thing is, is like, I've been looking me from a distance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's my thing, and I actually don't think this is like a good quality of mine.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's something that I'm trying to work on in myself, but like I will, it will get to a point in the night where like I become one of those men.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where I'm walking up to people and I'm like, how you doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: See, but I like that, because it's different when you're a woman.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess, yeah, maybe it's sexy when you're a woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is like, this is why I like going to make some flirting with people at the bar, because I will do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We gotta go back there, more.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love hanging.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every single time I go there, I'm like, this is a perfect bar.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a perfect bar for flirting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love to flirt on hang.
[SPEAKER_00]: And everyone there is hot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone there is hot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Perfect bar.
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect bar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Perfect place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone stop having birthday parties.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's been too many of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Except for my friends who I love, but also stop it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and except for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's when it's my birthday.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: everyone's going to shake the house down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, trust.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm already planning my birthday that is in December.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have made the party full invite for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just have an incentive to everybody yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're preparing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we have to hibernate for our own birthdays.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hope you can understand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: After this weekend, I have to rest for the next like four to six business months.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, also, can I just say when I left the bouncer outside was hitting on me hard, totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, what's trying to escape him?
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoa, you know what's so funny is you left.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a guy that I, it was like a mutual friend of, uh, of Tania's that like, I don't, I don't know him super well, but he came in pretty shortly after he left.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said he was like, the bouncer was trying to put in work on some lady outside.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like trying to call the Uber and I was smoking at the same time and he's like coming up to me He's trying to shake my hand and he's like so like What do you say to me?
[SPEAKER_00]: He was like you ever come around your before and I was like no, he's like you're already leaving You're leaving your friend.
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on.
[SPEAKER_00]: You stay for a little longer.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like no, I'm gonna go to bed
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like asking me what kind of food I like and he's like, well, maybe I can make that happen Freeze you come back around here whatever blah blah blah blah, and I was like yeah, no Okay, and I'm like try slowly trying to walk away and then he keeps kind of like because he's manning the door and then this
[SPEAKER_00]: somebody would come in and he'd get like he'd do his job and then he'd like walk back over and I'm slowly walking down the block and he's like keeps walking out farther and like right before my Uber's almost there and he comes over and he's like the pleasure was on my beautiful and I was like okay
[SPEAKER_01]: And again like these he was so much older.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like I all these men were so old Yeah, I'm like with peace and love.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not that's not my vibe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got like a 10-year age gap limit Yeah, I don't think I can go above 39.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all love, but that's not my vibe all love
[SPEAKER_01]: would truly honestly madly deeply and I will say this like for as much of a flirt as I am on a night out I love shutting people down when they're trying to flirt with me, and I'm not in the mood It's one of my favorite things to do to be like for them to be like, yeah, you're gorgeous You come here often me just be like, no
[SPEAKER_01]: nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, that's my favorite part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love like I actually need men to leave me alone.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's like a there's like a sick joy I get out of it because I start to kind of like bully them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll be like, I'll be like, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I honestly got, I think, sometimes men perceive my disinterest as nervousness in a cute way, and I'm like, no, I'm not like ignoring you and smiling and looking away because I think you're hot in your baby nervous.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to get away from you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm uncomfortable because you're 30 years older than me and keep calling me beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: You
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want to talk to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm also like, there's something also so funny when like much older men hit on me because I'm like, you would hate me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You would not like me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you actually could not spend one evening with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to talk to you about so many things that you do not give a single solitary fuck about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I fluttered really hard with a man who everyone afterwards told me it was gay.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I still got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think unfortunately, the reality is that my type, loosely, of course, is typically,
[SPEAKER_00]: The people that are probably not at the bars.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm like, your type, I don't think would be the person who's going up to women and like, hitting up, hitting up the bars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just why I constantly, I'm like, everyone's stopped talking to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm like, I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I already know.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't what I needed to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: By choosing to engage in this conversation, you have already jailed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I already know that this is not going to work, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You failed before it's even begun, but God's beat for triumphant.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's where we differ because again, I hit a point in the night where I'm just going up to literally anybody and being like, what do you think should we get out of here?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why, and I was actually talking to our friend Emily about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: after the party, Friday, she was like, she was like, there's something that happens in your brain, we're like a switch flips and all of a sudden you're just like talking, you're shooting your shot to anyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, yeah, I don't, I think it's like my fradious quality about myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, you and me, let me take you away from here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: What that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me get you away from all this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I become like a horny monster.
[SPEAKER_00]: Crazy people here.
[SPEAKER_00]: To loud.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your beautiful precious ear drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't need to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can get preserved.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it to anybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So gay men included.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're not safe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a double- I'm a double-sad with a lever rising.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just- I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if everyone's invited.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no exciting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, here's the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Parties happen in just at my place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on over you guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on over.
[SPEAKER_01]: The water's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just like become the equivalent of those creepy old men, but I'm just like a young, beautiful woman.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can away with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, I do think I think it works because of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and that's Hockroll privilege.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lucky me, I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Hot Girl Hotline, it's opened up the submission box.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're getting loose with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've heard your guys' comments that you love the audience submissions and you need us to do more of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we talk too much.
[SPEAKER_00]: So here we are today attempting to get through more than one audience mission.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to give it our best shot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do want to say this was for the pumpcast, not emotionally online, but I did see a comment that someone left the other day where they said something about ladies love the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: You really need to rain in your bits.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who sent that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, who said whoever you are you must be new here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, that's not gonna happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, whoever you are Peace and love.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you've got found the wrong show.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: This might not be the show for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was that on YouTube?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was either on YouTube or in like the Spotify creator thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember which one but I was literally like To say that about a comedy podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like who said it?
[SPEAKER_01]: What was their name?
[SPEAKER_01]: Who said it?
[SPEAKER_01]: I might want to respond.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where did they live?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who said it?
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually, sometimes I like to get a little happy in those comments, but I like to buy back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who said it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Took it too far.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who is saying?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying that about a comedy podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Guys, I actually don't care.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like guys, you're underestimating how stupid I like to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, I dare I say we actually do rain it in when we are on the bottom of the gas Well, this is the thing that's honestly even fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're at least you actually haven't seen us.
[SPEAKER_00]: No Not rain it We're under the constraints of an audio platform A podcast that's around an hour in like if you don't want to see us not raining.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you don't want to know What we're like on the day today
[SPEAKER_00]: Guys, I could do this for 10 hours straight.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would not run out of things to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have no idea how much we're replacing the batteries and that little recorded device is constant.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, well, we're going to continue.
[SPEAKER_01]: Taking the bit with peace and love.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not taking your advice.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, we're about to like bully the bit into the ground Yeah, but we'll give advice in the submissions box.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and this is your box.
[SPEAKER_00]: We will do exactly that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: So here we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Woo
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, Maddie and Meg.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a huge fan of emotional line and the pump cast, and I wanted to ask your thoughts on something that happened to me recently.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been seeing this guy for a few months, and the other day, I asked him what his type is.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said his preferred slash ideal type is slim thick.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm buying a gun, just putting it out there right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I already don't like what I'm reading.
[SPEAKER_00]: Men don't speak any more challenge.
[SPEAKER_00]: I asked what he meant by this since I feel like different people have different definitions.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, well, like, for example, I would consider you thick thick.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm plus size slash curvy.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess I like a smaller waist.
[SPEAKER_00]: I clarified.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you mean like a thin girl with hips, and he said yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: To be honest, this hit me like a freight train, because even though I know what he meant, and I think it's an accurate description, there's something about him using my body as a jumping off point to then describe how it would be different if it were ideal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I crazy for wanting to end things over this?
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to be with someone who thinks my body is ideal, but maybe I'm being unrealistic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Would love to hear your thoughts and thanks so much for the work you do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's start here.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is not unrealistic to expect the person you're with like your body.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you crazy for thinking of ending it over this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why haven't you ended it already?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have so many thoughts.
[SPEAKER_00]: I literally kind of...
[SPEAKER_00]: I have always disliked the term slim thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Me too.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just mean thin.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what the fuck you mean by that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember when it was like really popular in college, I used to rage out about this all the time because I was like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Half the time the people that men will describe as being slim thick are quite literally just thin women.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are not even women that I would call curvy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, this is like, it's giving me hot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say, thinking about having this conversation with a man like this is giving me hot.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also irritating to me because let's like, like, let's just hear what he said for a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: His type is slim thick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know how few people genetically have bodies that look like that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost none.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most of the women you see online that like if you googled slim thick, who would pop up?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most of them are women who like have BBLs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was going to say what this tells me is that he has porn rot brain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because whether he is watching porn with women like this who have like surgically made their bodies look like this, or he is just consuming content of like, you know, Instagram, baddies or whatever, like that's porn rot.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's edited.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not real.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are not like a woman on the internet or a porn star or one of these
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, women that he has consumed rarely over the years, you are a real woman standing in front of him and he's saying, oh yeah, my, my type is actually slim thick.
[SPEAKER_00]: This made up thing that the internet has procured for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what he just said to you is my type of skinny bitches in your fat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's call it what it's called a spade like let's not let's not mince our words here That's like that's what he said and like Well for example, I'd consider you thick thick
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I say that I fucking hate the term so do I I fucking hate call me fat just call it call me Please call me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am not please for the love of love There's actually something about the word thick that it is so Sexuality it is completely sexual that like makes me feel like physically ill yeah, where I'm like my body is not thick I am a fat woman right
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also like sometimes when people use these roundabout words, like this, it makes me feel like they're exposing their own, uh, fat so yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like you won't even say the word out loud.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't even say fat because it's like that frightening about you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You assume that it's like so insulting to say that word to me, that you won't even touch it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We both know that that's what I am right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't, yeah, that to me would suggest that they had views on fat bodies that don't align with my own.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think this is an interesting conversation to bring up after dating someone for a few months.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, which I do want to pause on this momentarily, just to say that you do not have to ask the person that you're seeing what their type is, so that you can analyze
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually never want to know what anyone's I'm dating's type is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, especially because like, I don't love.
[SPEAKER_00]: my type in the way that most people use that or the way that men use it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of times when women are talking about their type, they're just talking about like, and like what they've commonly been drawn to in the past.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are like the repeat patterns of like the types of people they've dated and the vibe they bring to the function.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: When men talk about their type, most of the time they're like placing an order, it's like a male order ride and you have to fit all these characteristics if not you're an ugly fat horse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't like that it feels like a demand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for like what you need to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think also if I'm dating someone, I'm just like, okay, I have to assume I'm your type somehow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm not.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're dating.
[SPEAKER_01]: Too worried about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're dating someone,
[SPEAKER_00]: for several months, you said you've been seeing this guy for the last few months, you are his type.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are his type, and you should end it with him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that guy sucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like the way he handled this conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, the way he responded is insane.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to me, like, genuinely perverted and freakish.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you talking about women like that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't like it at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also the fact that he immediately went to body type when he was talking about type, like I'm, I'm just saying, and this is what men do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where it's like, again, you ask a woman for her type and she's explaining personality.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, vibe, just general interests and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you ask a man, you ask a man, what his type is, and they're, yeah, they go straight to body type.
[SPEAKER_00]: You deserve to be with someone who makes you feel more confident, not less.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's part of me that reads this submission.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, this is me like drawing my own assumptions or conclusions about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when I hear that after months of dating this person, you felt like you needed to ask him what his type is.
[SPEAKER_00]: That would suggest to me that you already felt insecure in this relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Before hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why you asked
[SPEAKER_00]: And now he's reinforced that insecurity instead of made it better in any way.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't foresee this being a relationship that's going to make you feel good or sexy, beautiful, competent, any of these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like there may have been an underlying insecurity that existed before this conversation and this conversation just reinforced that insecurity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what was the the impetus for asking this question in the first place?
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I've I've been there not exactly with, you know, um, like asking somebody what their type is and them responding in this way, but like I've been in situations where I've been seeing people or like sleeping with them or whatever and
[SPEAKER_01]: having that gut feeling of like, I don't think this person is treating me in the way that they should be.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's really shitty, and it makes you feel like you're kind of being gaslit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just want to like affirm for you that like, there are people out there who find you attractive with no qualifications.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there is no, there are going to be people out there who are just like, my type is you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't think that you need to put up with some fuck, fuckhead.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, saying bullshit.
[SPEAKER_00]: But truly, I wish that I could reach every, you know, plus-sized woman in the world and shake her and just be like, never for a moment think that it is unrealistic to expect someone to love you exactly as you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is not unrealistic.
[SPEAKER_01]: It isn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I bet also that you have proof of that in your life and other relationships.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I bet that you have friends who love you exactly as you are and that you have family members who love you exactly as you are.
[SPEAKER_01]: So why is the expectation that you have to make sacrifices for a romantic partner?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just not true.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have living proof in your life that this is possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, you know, the only reason it wouldn't be possible is if you're with a shallow partner.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not on you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think for me, this would be grounds for ending it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he sounds like an absolute due-do-head.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'd protect yourself in your heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're deserving of more than this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone who just finds you sexy period.
[SPEAKER_00]: Last week, I dumped my third or possibly fourth therapist, all of which, after less than three months and a matter how much I initially get on with someone, I find that I come up against the same blocker that I just don't trust them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Something in me tells me that being a therapist is an untrustworthy profession and I find myself blatantly lying to them in order to protect myself or others.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel I was very honest with my last therapist about this, but I just can't push through it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It becomes especially difficult when I am then asked about my family.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've easily spent hundreds of dollars on sitting in complete silence and refusing to talk when questioned about them.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's really weird is I don't actually think there's much to share on them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just immediately lose all trust in a therapist as soon as they bring it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is obviously quite frustrating because those guys love knowing about your family.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess my question is, how what point do I accept that therapy probably is never going to work for me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's, can I, can I, can I just say what my favorite part of that submission is?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, when they said that anytime the therapist brings up their family, they sit in complete silence for hours, and then immediately following that sentence with, weirdly enough, I don't actually think there's much to say about them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what, with peace, I say this with so much peace and love, like all the peace and love in my heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is something to dig into there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, the most fragile way you could have said it.
[SPEAKER_00]: something to explore the thing, definitely going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, multiple things.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I saw this in the box, I was like, okay, we've got to do some unpacking here, but because what happened, why, yeah, why, what happened?
[SPEAKER_00]: What did a therapist do to you to make them so untrustworthy to you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's what I will say.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is, it's really tough because
[SPEAKER_01]: Therapy has become something that I think has become more accessible, which on a grand scale I think is a good thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: That said, I think people can get uh...
[SPEAKER_01]: real in the weeds about how they think therapy is supposed to work?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Without ever actually doing it, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I for instance have gone to therapist before where I get to a point where I'm like, I don't think they can really help me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we're on like different wavelengths and that's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been known to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Finding the right therapist for you takes time.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a process.
[SPEAKER_01]: What you are revealing in this submission is that there is something happening inside of you that makes you completely shut down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The minute a therapist brings up the topic of your family.
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe other things also.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like when you say something in me tells me that being a therapist is an untrustworthy profession.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I find myself blatantly lying in order to protect myself or others, pause, protect yourself from what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what you think therapy is or isn't, but I'll tell you what my perspective on it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: My perspective on therapy is that it is a space where I can just talk about my life, my relationships, the things I'm reflecting on with a neutral third party that just wants to ask me reflective questions so that I can dig deeper into myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: My therapist is not there to tell me anything about myself, to make final rulings on me, to tell me what I can or can't do to judge me in any way.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's there to be a mirror for me and reflect back questions and like helpful reflection points, they're going to help me dig into myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Therapy is more about helping you connect with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your therapist is not trying to like extract information from you to then harvest and judge you and whatever else.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no risk factor to talking about, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: your relationships and their reflections you're having about them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're actually legally not allowed to talk about it with anybody else.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that like finding the right therapist for you, it will change your experience with therapy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I prefer some people have much older therapists.
[SPEAKER_00]: I prefer to have a young therapist.
[SPEAKER_00]: My therapist is
[SPEAKER_00]: like two years older than me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it helps because I feel like she can intimately understand and relate to the stuff that I talk about with social media or like the relationship didn't dynamics of people around our age group, the things that we believe living in New York City, how like the city influences the way that people are.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like it's nice to me
[SPEAKER_00]: to be able to, like, just speak to someone who I do feel truly understands everything that I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, she's not there to project any sort of individual judgment on me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't most of the time, it's rare if ever that my therapist will blatantly be like, I agree completely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you are 100% in the right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, your therapist is not there to be like, yes, it's right
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's it's not about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no final rulings being made on anybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: You or your family members or friends or whoever you're talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know why you would think that being a therapist is an untrustworthy profession and I do feel that if you are blatantly lying to your therapists You're not even getting out of therapy
[SPEAKER_00]: like you're stopping any productive outcomes you could get from therapy straight in their tracks.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're lying and not being open with your therapist and
[SPEAKER_00]: walking into therapy with an open heart, open mind, just committing yourself to going through the process.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're never going to get anything positive out of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a really interesting case because it seems like there's a lot happening in this person's body.
[SPEAKER_01]: like, there is something in this person that keeps them coming back to there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, there's something in their body that's trying to get out in therapy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But for whatever reason, they're like stopping it before it can kind of like escape.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the same time, there's this with this inherent like untrustworthiness.
[SPEAKER_01]: This feeling that therapy is like a gacha.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all leading up to a gacha.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel like you're heading into therapy being like, when is my therapist going to be like gacha?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know where that comes from for you, but I, I mean, maybe therapy right now isn't the right thing for you if you are lying to these people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's about interrogating in yourself, what keeps you one wanting to go to therapy and two from being honest when you're there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, there is something happening in your body clearly that you want to talk about.
[SPEAKER_01]: whatever that blockage is, that's the thing that you need to like turn your eye to.
[SPEAKER_00]: It also makes me wonder like the idea of withholding or lying to your therapist in order to protect yourself or others.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then later on in this submission being like, you know, it becomes difficult when I'm asked about family and I shut down and complete silence or refuse to talk
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes me wonder what it is you're trying to protect or like what it is about family specifically that you feel you can't touch or can't think about and part of me wonders if you may be
[SPEAKER_00]: have fallen into the belief that like you cannot confront difficult challenging or critical assessment of people you love without it meaning that someone is like a hundred percent bad and you like
[SPEAKER_00]: you can't reckon with there being good and bad parts of our families and our friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think family is like a complicated conversation for every person because, yeah, I mean, you have a group of people, you know, between...
[SPEAKER_00]: two and eight people in a family let's say there's always going to be conflict there because you're not all mirrors for each other right and some is more difficult to sit in than others and I know from you know dealing with my own conflicts within my family
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it is hard to face if you had a different image of your family as a child or in a different era of your family and then something changes, something happens and it can be hard to face because you don't want your image of your family to change and you don't want other people's opinions of your family members to change so you feel like you have to protect people to keep...
[SPEAKER_00]: it as it is and not face it, but I do think that not facing whatever the thing is makes it worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that by facing it and by allowing yourself and people around you to be imperfect people that contain the ability to be both good and bad and that none of this is a final ruling on anyone as a person.
[SPEAKER_00]: you open yourself up to so much more closeness and healing then you would expect there there be.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, I'm drawing some conclusions here myself based on what I'm reading, but I just don't
[SPEAKER_00]: It's clear that you are avoiding something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what that something is, but I feel confidently that confronting it head on, looking at it, sitting in it, only serves to help you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's clearly some part of you that wants to confront whatever this thing is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, I'm like, I'm
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's really interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious if writing this down brought anything up for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think I'm so fascinated by this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's really interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when we get to the last part, where it's like, I've easily spent hundreds of dollars on sitting in complete silence and refusing to talk one question to about them.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's really weird is I don't actually think there's much to share on them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just immediately lose all trust in a therapist as soon as they bring it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
[SPEAKER_00]: These things are connected.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is no way that you could be like as soon as a therapist brings up therapy I don't trust them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's nothing to explain why I might think that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing further to nothing or there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk about about family at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like why is it that you think that a therapist wanting to understand your family history or family dynamic would mean something
[SPEAKER_00]: about their trustworthiness right and you like hearing them ask about your family at all makes you
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, to like lose all trust in a therapist as soon as they ask you about your family is really strange to me because that's a very normal thing for a therapist to ask you about because we are all shaped by our families and we were raised and understanding someone's history and backstory as a person just allows you to be a better therapist.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it sounds like your therapist may have been trying to understand you better and you've shut it down for some reason and I don't know why I mean either
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking in my head about what is some even practical advice that we can give this person and I'm like, the first thing that comes to mind is maybe just like free writing, like free association of like no judgment, no just curiating with curiosity, like why do I feel so distrusting of therapists when they bring out my family and just like writing something down for like 30 minutes, it's just pen, not leaving paper, just writing something down
[SPEAKER_01]: I also maybe would just encourage if this person is still interested in pursuing therapy, which I, it sounds like maybe you should, I think you definitely should, but you should reflect on why you're so hesitant to fully participate in therapy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think I, I would just encourage this person to, if they are like, there's not much to say about my family,
[SPEAKER_00]: Just say what there is to say about them and retain it and I like oftentimes like sometimes I go into therapy And there's something actually on my mind that I want to talk about but sometimes there's not and my therapist will be like What do you want to talk about today and I'll be like I actually don't know nothing's really coming to mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: And my therapist will usually start by asking me a question about something I mentioned a long time ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Being like, has any, have you, what have been like some new reflections you've had about this or how is so into a person doing what's your relationship and like with them over the last six months?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, or I know you have this trip to see your family coming out, how are you feeling about that, blah, blah, whatever, and usually in having this like mundane conversation with my therapist about just being like, oh, I'm getting ready to.
[SPEAKER_00]: go on vacation with my family, and I'm excited to see my sister, and blah, blah, blah, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it will usually lead into some kind of internal reflection or reckoning that I was not expecting to have.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, sometimes you do just have to allow yourself to have like a regular conversation in therapy, yep, in being like, yeah, I have a mom, and two sisters, and I was really close with this one sister growing up because we both did dance class together, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You just have to like have a conversation that you think should mean nothing to your therapist and see what comes out and like where it leads you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you have nothing, if you don't have much to say, say what it is and just see where that goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like part of finding a good therapist is finding someone that's able to ask you the right questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it sounds like you have a lot of like, adjuda about being interrogated in some ways that's what therapy is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're only there to ask questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but they're not there to talk about themselves at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that you can interrogate yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: So something in you is blocking you from interrogating that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's really interesting to me that I think like,
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like you're trying to protect yourself from something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's something in you that, again, is like trying to, like, claw its way out and there you are doing everything you can in order to protect yourself from it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would I would head into that deep dark cave my friend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the line.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is obviously quite frustrating because the good those guys love knowing about your family It's genuinely so funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those guys fucking loves to be in your business about Freaking cream their jeans when they hear about your fucking fam your therapists that wants to understand the full picture and history of you
[SPEAKER_01]: The Torps, they wanted all about your family.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Torps, who's meeting you a stranger and has to like, their job is to interrogate you about your life and totally the complexities of who you are as a person.
[SPEAKER_00]: How we were raised in our families have like a massive impact on who we are, how we react to things in our adulthood.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like even things you would think don't have anything to do with your family.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like the amount of things that I've uncovered in therapy about my relationship with my mom Right my relationship with my grandma my dad like our family dynamic as a whole the expectations put on me as the eldest daughter Like there has been so many parts of my childhood that I've unpacked in therapy
[SPEAKER_00]: and some of it's been hard, but a lot of it has made me feel a lot more confident in those relationships, because I understand our history, my position to each of them, what boundaries I need to set to have better relationships with my family members, like only good things come from it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like if you think your relationship with your family is like super fine and neutral, talk about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Talk about why it's super fine and neutral.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have to be if there really is no like, you know, there's nothing to say, if there's nothing to say, then just talk about talking about what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: What it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your therapist is not there like a fucking detective trying to extract information about your family.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not luring you into some sort of trap.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're it's their job to ask you questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good luck.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know what has I don't know how we got here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Godspeed though, but I Yeah, just think about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, no pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just give it a think.
[SPEAKER_00]: Give it a think.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um And I wouldn't accept the last question they ask is at what point do I just accept that therapy probably is never going to work for me?
[SPEAKER_00]: don't even touch that for right now because I think we have other things to reflect on first of which you wrote about in the body of your submission.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe just focus on the middle part and not the ending.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's what I will also say because a lot of people think about therapy exclusively is like talk therapy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe talk therapy isn't for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you should
[SPEAKER_01]: there's EMDR therapy, there's therapy that I think CBT is also a type of therapy that specifically CBT therapy is focuses on like you in the present moment and a lot of times there's actually a lot of less focus on your past and like your your relationships to your family or things like that and it deals more with like how you feel in your body.
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe that's something to explore before doing like a talk therapy because again, it sounds like there is a real blockage in your body that we have things to unlock.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, really wanting to before we can feel comfortable talking come out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah So give it a think Have a thing combed up
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Maddie and Meg.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love you girls in this beautiful online community.
[SPEAKER_00]: You make me laugh until I cry and give some of the best advice out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: See, they don't think we take the bit too far.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they love our bits.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, girl, or person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's my situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: As a 30-year-old girl, I have been on a journey with self-love, especially relating to body image.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this year, I feel have finally stopped wanting to be thinner and truly started to feel hot in the body I have.
[SPEAKER_00]: Woohoo!
[SPEAKER_00]: However, one of my close friends continues to constantly share her desire to lose weight, despite being a size four slash six
[SPEAKER_00]: She has recently joined a weight loss group.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll call it sweet swatchers.
[SPEAKER_00]: The added S stands for Satan and often comments on being fat or not being allowed to eat certain foods.
[SPEAKER_00]: I recognize that this is part in product of a system we all have sadly grown up in, hello early 2000s diet culture.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I find it so infuriating she can't see that or attempt to challenge her way of thinking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Immediately jumping to losing weight instead of doing inner slash mental health work.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also don't want to be around this kind of conversation and risk undoing my growth relating to the topic.
[SPEAKER_00]: So far, I have just been disengaging slash cutting off combos, slash changing topics, whenever this comes up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it might be time to set a boundary around this topic with her while also opening a door for her to start challenging her views on food slash body image, but I'm not sure how.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm worried it will start an argument and that it may not be my place as long as she's not coming to harm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Any advice you have on how to navigate the situation would be great thanks and lots of love.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, my take is like, even if your friend is not coming to a place of like, bodily harm to herself.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's definitely subjecting herself to mental harm for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you have a responsibility to yourself to protect the amount of healing and inner work you've done to find peace within yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, that I agree requires a boundary set.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we can't control how the other person reacts to that boundary being set.
[SPEAKER_00]: All we can do is set the boundary protect ourselves and you know move forward however we can react respond to however they react in the moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully your friend is receptive and willing to be introspective about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if they're not we cross that bridge when we get to it but
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would also struggle with this big time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that like if you're someone that has gone through
[SPEAKER_00]: a reckoning with your body image, many of us have, many of us haven't, but if you have, it is hard to be around people who have not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Particularly people that are not even interested in trying to, like I think when people are like in the middle of their reckoning, that's almost one thing, still difficult in a different way.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when people are like unconcerned about having a body image reckoning at all,
[SPEAKER_00]: This is going to be a problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: We keep running into them because once you have a better relationship with your body, it's painful to be around people who don't even attempt to have a neutral relationship with their own.
[SPEAKER_01]: going through like a like liberation experience like liberating yourself from fat phobia will throw into such a harsh light how casually fat phobic people are all time and in way in in places that are so inappropriate in in conversations that do not ask for it at all all of a sudden someone's toss of your co-workers saying shit like
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm so fat today like I can't I can't have lunch.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so fat today.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had I had a donut for breakfast and you're like Whoa, why are we talking about this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why why the hell did you just say that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like why don't you bring that And why the fuck are we talking about that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's look at the spreads.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's Dave and like I think you'd be shocked at or maybe wouldn't be shocked
[SPEAKER_00]: And how often it happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel that like it's now it's something that makes me feel more sad than anything else.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely there was a period of time where it may piss me off and make me angry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is also valid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think when it's more insidious and like directly harmful, I definitely do.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll have that reaction.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like when I'm hanging out with like...
[SPEAKER_00]: friends of friends or people that I'm not around all that often and one of them makes a comment like the one you mentioned about like, oh, I ate so much for breakfast that I skipped lunch altogether.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so bloated and it's like the thinnest person you've ever seen right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand what.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, honestly, the idea of like being frustrated about being bloated for like the aesthetic of that versus like how it feels in your body as always can fuse me?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I look so bloated.
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're complaining about being bloated because of how it feels fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: When we're talking about I'm I look so bloated.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just like a different way of saying I look so I look fat.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're saying, I look fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what, what are we talking about?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I've just never understood shit like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a real, I really feel for this person because I have a lot of really close people to me in my life who I love so dearly, who,
[SPEAKER_01]: really struggle with internalized fat phobia and it isn't easy to be around and I have said to them at this point like you can feel that all you want don't say that shit to me yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have done too much work on myself to let that all wash away and get sucked back into this terrible, terrible dynamic.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard enough, you know, like keeping up the kind of like body neutrality thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I have my own
[SPEAKER_01]: Things going on, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like being kind to myself and reminding myself that's gotten easier with time for sure But like rewiring my brain took so much effort and I just there's just no world where I am ever going back there again um It's really Hard to be friends with people who
[SPEAKER_01]: are constantly having negative body talk.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really understand that, and I think you are exactly right in that you do need to set that boundary with that person.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I would bet money on the fact that they don't even realize that they're doing it, because it's so common for them, that's how they talk to themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: and I'm sure that they have no concept of like how it is impacting you at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would absolutely talk to them and you know, it's really interesting because I think Maddie, you and I share a similar experience in that
[SPEAKER_01]: I grew up hating myself and my body for the first two plus decades of my life, hating myself, not even a thought crossed my mind that anyone could think differently about themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that that's just how everyone thought about themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hate myself, I'm a bad person because I am fat.
[SPEAKER_01]: And until I lose the weight, I am worthless, to society, to the people around me, I'm lazy, I can't do anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is, this is my lot in life.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will never be loved because of my body.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I grew up feeling like I would experience a life that was a fraction of how beautiful everyone else is would be because of exactly how I thought that I would be on the sidelines watching other people get to live the life that I wanted to forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Literally, that's exactly how I felt word for word.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I will cheer people on as they get to live
[SPEAKER_01]: that I want, but I do not deserve because of my body.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's been really interesting becoming friends with people in my adult life now that I do not feel that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they assume that I have always been like, like this, like how I am now, like body neutral.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they'll look to me sometimes and act as though,
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like different or special like they're like well, obviously you don't think this because you've always been right and I have had to explain actually as as recently as like a couple months ago I've had to explain to like some very close friends of mine that like the way that I feel now and the way that I like move and talk about my body or don't talk about my body now
[SPEAKER_01]: Is because of work that I have put in right to not feel this way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that actually I'm not special I just chose a different path.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just chose to do something else.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I I question things
[SPEAKER_01]: I questioned things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I started to look around and I was like, well, actually, this is kind of ridiculous when you lay it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Call it what it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why should it be that because I look aesthetically different.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a person standing next to me that I should not have a life as beautiful as them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's been so...
[SPEAKER_01]: interesting to watch everything that was, you know, given to me in a narrative as a kid of like, you're not going to be able to achieve this.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to be able to get this, you know, you're not going to be able to experience like love or dating in a regular way.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to be able to like get the jobs that you want because you look a certain way.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of that has been proven false.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at some point,
[SPEAKER_01]: I started to think to myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think everyone else might just be wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the minute that that happens and it kind of clicks for you, you're like, oh, yes, everyone is telling me this shit because they're consumed by their own fat phobic misery.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm choosing not to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the funny thing is now, and it makes me kind of laugh because of how ridiculous it is, but it's like the funny thing now is like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't chained.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing about my physical appearance really has changed.
[SPEAKER_01]: As I've got, like my body hasn't changed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm still a fat woman.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still look the way that I did, you know, three or four years ago or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like the way that I move through my life now that has
[SPEAKER_01]: Respond so well to me and not to like to my own horn, but like people will be like yes You've got like a really sexy vibe about you like you're very beautiful person And I'm like that is so funny because I literally never thought that that would be possible when I was younger Right for people to act as though I am desirable for people to believe that I am desirable totally and When it comes to like the friend thing
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, what I have found is that there really is no good work around for, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: like teaching your friend how to talk to you or not talk about these topics other than just saying I don't want you to talk about this stuff with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you actually, this is a topic that's now off limits between the two of us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because the unfortunate reality is that you can't do that work for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's, I mean, this person knows she's blatantly said, like I've had a reckoning with my, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: body image and that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you know how hard that work is.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really hard to to claw your way out of this hole that like seemingly everyone else is in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And most people will never choose to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most people won't.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, I think if this is a good friend to you and you love them and you care about them, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, the reality is is that you're just going to have to accept that they feel about their body, however, they feel about them.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that doesn't mean that they have to talk about it with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a no, I think it's just like a no crossing zone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're a lot of sadness for my friends, who still feel this way, I feel like a lot of sadness and it really does break my heart a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Seeing friends of mine who have whatever bodies they have and feel that they need to change.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have talked about how we've had friends of ours whose bodies have changed and like they have gotten smaller and guess what their problems haven't gone away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, because, yeah, changing what your body looks like does not change the relationship you have with it.
[UNKNOWN]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, you do have to work on that kind of regardless of anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which sucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I just, I really feel for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have, like, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, I think, you know, if this person is a good friend to you in other ways, then they'll understand you bring this to them and hopefully meet you with like compassion and grace.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, hopefully they will correct that behavior around you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it really does make me ill thinking about someone who's a size for drawing weight watch.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just thinking that I'm like, Oh, God.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just really astounding to me, the lengths that people will go to be thin and it's astounding to me how.
[SPEAKER_00]: few people will say that it's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like to me, when I hear that like a size four is signing up for weight watchers, in my brain, it's like, why are they allowed to do that?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm literally like, that should be illegal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody stepped in to be like, hey, maybe not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're, you're fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even really, at this point, talk about with my friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: if I'm trying to like work out more or like change change what it is that I'm eating.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think like Maddie and I will talk about it on occasion, the reason that I don't is because I know that I'm talking about it differently than my friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's, I think it's different to have that conversation with someone who you know has already done the work, just detached from like,
[SPEAKER_00]: the way that fat phobia wants you to talk about exactly changing your relationship with movement or with food like I've talked about this a lot on the podcast and on my YouTube channel and like my I mean so much of my reckoning with my body has also been um
[SPEAKER_00]: having the opportunity to rebuild my relationship with food and movement in a way that movement is no longer used for punishment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a way to, you know, experience joy in my body.
[SPEAKER_00]: I started calling it recess.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like getting to,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just redo it and make it look so different.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I'm trying to learn about healthier and more colorful and balanced meals to cook for myself, like those are not things that I'm doing or choices I'm making as a way to change myself or punish my body.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no aesthetic or like physical
[SPEAKER_00]: reference to those things at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's simply about wanting to bring more joy to my body and to make yeah, bring in more choices that just serve to make me feel good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has nothing to do with losing weight or looking differently and everything to do with healing the relationships that we're
[SPEAKER_00]: the reason why I grew up always having a bad relationship with movement was because it was used as a punishment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a way to make me feel badly about myself and what I looks like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same goes with food.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like fat phobia is the thing that destroyed those relationships.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, as an adult, I get to go back and build different habits and build different relationships with those things and I can talk to someone else who's also done that work about that because I know that we understand the perspective and I don't know like if I say to a friend that hasn't done the work that I'm, you know, I'm trying to, you know, eat a little bit more balanced and learn how to cook some more healthy meals.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't trust that they're not going to hear that and all the sudden be like oh my god, yeah Me too.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm wanting to lose 10 pounds before blah blah blah blah And they take it to a way different place than what I'm intending it to be right and I'm like okay Well, now I can't have this conversation with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because we're having two different conversations
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're hearing me talk about health and you're thinking I'm talking about thinness.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I never will be.
[SPEAKER_00]: But to so many people Health and thinness is the same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to anybody who sees health and thinness as the same thing, I cannot talk to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: About food, movement, my habits, what I'm exploring, what I'm not exploring.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a part of my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't include you in because I have done too much work to get past.
[SPEAKER_00]: The false equation of thinnest and health that I cannot engage in conversation with people who make that false equivalency.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's like, ultimately, I'm like, okay, we are quite literally speaking two different languages.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, I'm saying something entirely different.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm talking about how I want my body to feel.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're talking about how you want your body to look.
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that I will never talk about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not engaging in that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: all love.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I'm not engaging in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it like, yeah, I totally agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is something that like I honestly feel like the majority of times I have talked about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is been online.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: To myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like I don't often,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I barely bring it up to anybody in real life, because I actually don't trust people's ability to respond to me in a way that is normal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: In a way that is like normal for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like weird for other for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like I would trust.
[SPEAKER_00]: you and I to talk about that and to be like brutally honest, I actually don't know if I have many other friends that I would be like totally, we get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are on the same page completely.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think same.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, that's tough.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But also like, this is also the fat experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like sometimes you really do just look at your other fat friend and you're like damn sister damn.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone else is crazy except for us Well, and you and I also didn't even really talk about that stuff until like a couple of years into our friendship We're like and and the way that we talked about it was very much so like both of us being like
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you feel about it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other person would be like, how do you do?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the other person would be like, how do you say anything crazy?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's so great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it is, again, it's like, it's really hard to have those conversations with a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have a lot of empathy for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also like there is so much like protection and just like preservation that I want to do for my younger self.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think, like, so much of it varies on who exactly you're talking to and what the experience is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, I know I have a lot more flexibility for fat people that are struggling with.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: This versus a thin person that is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my own.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just can't listen to a thin person talk about how much they hate being fat.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my boundary.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then people don't get to complain to me about how they are and how horrible they feel.
[SPEAKER_00]: If a fat person is struggling with fatness and wants to say those things to me, I actually am receptive hearing a fat person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk about that because that's a real experience that they're having.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's real.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a real thing that they are grappling with.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I understand that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I someone who also experiences the world in a fat body.
[SPEAKER_00]: But to listen to a thin person talk about how fat and awful they are, I can't do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: With peace and love, this is something different.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have empathy for you in your journey.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I cannot in protection of mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot be with you on yours.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the reality is is that what you're saying is, if I had your body, I would kill myself, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, we can't do this together.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just not doing that because I do have my body.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not going to kill myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do have to wake up and live through my life every single day in this body.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I cannot, yeah, I cannot make exceptions for people
[SPEAKER_00]: struggling with these things just because I have empathy for you doesn't mean that I have to suggest subject myself to, you know, being a listening ear.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is so interesting because, like, the way that people are so ingrained in, like, fat phobia, it feels like I live on another planet.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not really does.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, it's like then all I will have people be like, but it's easy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, it's easy for you You're just like this and I'm like no No bitch no bitch.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been 10 fucking years of me Wiring my brain.
[SPEAKER_00]: I made a conscious choice That's always to be different at some point.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a turning point in life where I made the conscious knowing choice Yes, to work on my body image and change my perspective.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes
[SPEAKER_01]: and you look at me like it was never a coincidence never a coincidence my body didn't change my mind right like I don't know I don't know what to fucking tell you it's just yeah it like blows my mind sometimes and it's it's so interesting to me too because I'm like
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it like it baffles even me that I'm like I can't believe that I thought that all of this stuff just wouldn't be available to me because of like my butt What I know either my body things I said and conversations I had as like a young teenager that make me be like
[SPEAKER_01]: Fuck no literally why did nobody else say what the fuck?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is what's so crazy too It's like then you have like adults in your life being like, yeah, that's true Like the amount of times I would like as a 14-year-old I will remember this for the rest of my life, but I remember at that age it was either I was 13 or 14 I for some reason was under the impression that I was
[SPEAKER_00]: not allowed to wear a bikini until my stomach looked a certain way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why I thought that or like who I thought was enforcing this rule.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in my head, I literally was not allowed to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Until I had a flat stomach.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember I at the time did have any any anything disorder.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had lost a pretty significant amount of weight as a 14-year-old by, you guessed it, not eating.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember going to the doctors for my annual check-up and asking my pediatrician, how much more weight I'd have to lose to have a flat stomach.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: because my stomach still wasn't flat and she was like, you actually should not lose any more way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is genetically what your body should look like.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, what do you mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you talking about?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because one can I wear a bikini?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she was like right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, well,
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it doesn't sound right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think the hard part is that there was like no adult in my life that witnessed Those conversations and what I was assuming was correct and thought oh, no, that's not right That's a child that needs help Instead a lot of the adults would look at me when I would express my feelings about my body and being like
[SPEAKER_00]: Like when how much weight do I have to lose to wear a bikini?
[SPEAKER_00]: They'd be like, oh my god, me too, girl Me too sister don't I have to also lose a couple pounds before summer like adults would commiserate with me Yeah, more than they would ever look at me and be like oh my god honey You are perfect and beautiful and gorgeous.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just as you are like why do you think you need to change?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and now I look back and I'm like
[SPEAKER_00]: What the fuck was wrong with all of you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like, I like back and I'm like, oh, you guys are in prison.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, you guys are in a prison of your own making that you unbelievable would like feed this shit to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And be like, yeah, you, the six year old, like you can't wear a bikini because you don't have the body for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like something that was said to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm six years old.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really?
[SPEAKER_01]: six six years i just got here right like whoa you're mind is a prison to be to be saying that shit it's absurd it's absurd and it's just again it's like it's just so crazy to me because I'm like
[SPEAKER_01]: You just can have the life that you want.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just have to choose that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not saying that is like a writing it off Plattitude kind of a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, no, the choosing is really hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but like fucking do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, what I mean, like do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We all can.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we all have the ability to like shed this
[SPEAKER_00]: They totally off of us and like do you not I always will like I look back at that time and I'm I think I get really hung up on like the younger younger self of it all and I look at like photos of myself as a Kid and as a teenager at the times I was when I hated myself the most and I'm like I feel sick about it Like I'm crying and crying crying thinking about that little girl how could you in my head?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like
[SPEAKER_00]: How could you not have a moment where you're like, oh my god, she never deserved that and I was failed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm gonna make sure that I don't continue this cycle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: How does everyone not have that moment?
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually had, I was like crying about this the other day because I was thinking about that little girl version of me and like,
[SPEAKER_01]: it's just so it's so hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like we're inundated constantly with media about like you know losing weight and blah blah blah all this stuff and I you know was like looking at whatever it was like having this moment of like God like this this this is all happening again.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I just had this other moment of like, I really part of why I love the body now that I have now is because I'm showing the younger version of myself that it's possible to have this life in the body that I have now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that like genuinely made me so emotional because when I was younger
[SPEAKER_01]: And part of living in the body that I have now, I feel like is almost like an ode to that young version of me who deserves all of the love that I have for her now and deserved to have it then.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just really, yeah, like it makes my heart hurt thinking about the amount of like young girls and young people who feel that way now and how I felt then and just like reckoning with it is like one of the most difficult things that a person can do and I commend you
[SPEAKER_00]: How awesome is it that we get to be different?
[SPEAKER_00]: We get to choose, and we get to break the cycle for other young women in our own lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We get to choose differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: Any young woman that comes in your orbit will feel safe and like they can embrace and accept themselves because of the work that you've done now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that beautiful?
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had people in my life tell me that they've changed the way that they think about their bodies because of me and how I talk about my own body.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a ripple effect.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because once one person does, and you get to be the example to other people, and people start noticing that they feel lighter around you.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not as judgmental or critical about themselves when they're in your presence.
[SPEAKER_01]: it suddenly it bleeds and yeah more people it starts to spread and you know a lot of people have mind cops yeah they have cops in their mind telling them policing them and telling them what they can and cannot do and you're lucky that you killed your mind cop yeah and
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully your friend will get to a point where they're able to kill their mind cop as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't really sound like they're close to that at the moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what you can do is protect yourself from that type of language and behavior because it's just in city as man.
[SPEAKER_01]: It grows like a weed and it is hard to get rid of
[SPEAKER_00]: But things can be different, and things are different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Things are how many people, like, team amount of people who, I literally had multiple people come up to me the other night at Tanya's birthday and be like, Maddie is so hot.
[SPEAKER_01]: So true.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, period, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, people are saying, people are saying, literally people are saying, and like, people's fucking say that about me too.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, I'm like, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you just can't, you'd can't be totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: It can be in the body of your mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could tell every plus-size woman ever that it's like the secret sauce to being hot has actually nothing to do with what you look like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And everything to do with the person that you are.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so fucking true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is huge news.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Huge news for everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just be cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Straight up be cool and in terror like no and know yourself be cool Know who you are be open minded.
[SPEAKER_01]: You will be so sexy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all takes, baby That's a litter.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's people think that it takes something different.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't know
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what to tell you, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's that people are hot for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you don't gotta do anything to change.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Love, all love, all love to end the episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks so much for hanging out with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'd like to keep this party going.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can join the Patreon and listen to me emotionally online post show.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll please follow the podcast at emotionally online pod, shop our merch, emotionally online.shop.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can follow me at Maddie Drawspack and you can follow me at Megruoka.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we will see you guys in next week's episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Goodbye.