[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, every guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is an amazing podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: I titled this podcast a masterclass for leash walking because again, it's just one of those gold nuggets that the owners asked all the right questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were great students.
[SPEAKER_00]: They knew that they were in over the head and they needed help and it was an this is an amazing quiet podcast for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you guys have friends family members who are struggling with their dog and the leash and not only struggling in as you'll hear in this podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's much more than your dog pulling you on the leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: If your dog is dragging you down the leash, you're not bringing your dog for a walk, you're hanging on.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're basically a butler to pick up your dog's poop, and you go back home, which is the worst way to develop a relationship with the dog, and working with dogs for over 13 years, and working with some of the nastiest dogs in the planet, I can tell you that fundamentally, getting dogs to that place of aggression and reactivity and anxiety, starts with the relationship, starts with the lack of foundation of what we're talking about in this podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very important.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really gold nugget.
[SPEAKER_00]: Please send it to your friends and family who need help with their dog And I will talk to you guys on the next one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening enjoy Oh, this is Tom.
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Tom.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm good.
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing pretty good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're about to in the world or you
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm in Buffalo, New York.
[SPEAKER_01]: So not too far for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what's going on?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so what did they grade it?
[SPEAKER_01]: I have my wife, Jen, sitting beside me here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, Tom.
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you?
[SPEAKER_03]: Nice to meet you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice to meet you, too, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Tom, I'm going to give you the backstory of what we have, who we have cooking.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have two French bulldogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: One is a male who's five and a half years old.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other is a female, Ducky, who is about a year and a half.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was a rescue, so we don't know exactly, but she's roughly a year and a half.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've had her for nine months, prior to having two dogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Frankie had some leash reactivity,
[SPEAKER_01]: but was well-socialized.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they both go to a doggy day, a little boutique doggy day care that has no more than 20 dogs a day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oftentimes, the last two people monitoring them, and they report no issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: They love them, and they get along splendid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
[SPEAKER_01]: But with Ducky for us, she...
[SPEAKER_01]: is extremely reactive on a leash towards other dogs and even in our house we have two balconies that we kind of sit out on.
[SPEAKER_01]: She sees a dog and she goes absolutely ballistic.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's sort of the one aspect of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing is she's just a nightmare to walk.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've tried no poharnaces
[SPEAKER_01]: 19-pound, you know, freight train on a leash and she loves the walk, so walk for miles, but she's just a nightmare between the reactivity and the pulling.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's sort of a core problem with Duffy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think obviously having both them together, I think it exacerbates
[SPEAKER_01]: She's a female, but she's dominant.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's sort of where we stand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you said you tried the, what else have you tried?
[SPEAKER_00]: You said you tried the no-po harness and that didn't work.
[SPEAKER_00]: What else have you tried?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we tried some, some like tree training.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've, we've tried a slip lead a little bit, but you know, probably just don't have the best technique and that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when she really is reactive, I mean, she will hang herself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, she'll flow her body around.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so, you know, we get a little concern about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've tried some basic treat training stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, watching some videos and that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but yeah, that's the bulk of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: She will tire herself out and get a little bit better after, you know, five minutes of kill in herself.
[SPEAKER_02]: A mile.
[SPEAKER_03]: Pulling me?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, she doesn't consistently walk well and she needs the exercise and let it be known that we live in the city.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we can't just have our free rain to get some burns and energy off any other way, really.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then so yeah, that's the core problem and then the reactivity and she will, you know, we're crossing streets when dogs are coming up of a situation, you know, we're we're turning a corner to avoid dogs, because, you know, she really flips out and then he flips out and so then we have two crazy dogs, it's so embarrassing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're walking them both at the same time.
[SPEAKER_03]: not always but most of the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a lot of times he won't go as far or so, Jen will just walk or sit separately.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: got you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So here's here's the first thing I would say is walking, so going backwards whenever you have a dog that's pulling like a like a freight train, here's the mistakes everyone make.
[SPEAKER_00]: The first mistake is using the harness because the harness helps dogs, harness helps dogs
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that literally like they were like how can we make dogs pull safer?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's what that is And then the second thing is is a lot of people go out and they will have dogs They'll try to basically just stop a behavior without the dog knowing what you want them to do
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of people just go out and they try to put out a fire as it's blazing, that's what you're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you go outside for a walk, the dog is pulling like a freight train, you're outside and you're trying to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Doing everything you can to stop the dog from pulling.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's again, that's like trying to learn how to ride a bike in the Tour de France.
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't make any sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: You will fail.
[SPEAKER_00]: On a percent, like there's no shot of you winning that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and those are the two big reasons why people fail is because they are asking their dog to do something in an environment that is way to chaotic and to advance for the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, if anybody takes their dog out and tries to teach them something that they don't know and or in your case, you're trying to stop something.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you're basically, you got a little squirt gun with an engulfed building right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're wasting your time, you're wasting your
[SPEAKER_00]: But those are the reasons why you're failing right now is you are going out Side trying to stop something the dog has no idea what you want You're just trying to stop a behavior.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not trying to teach a behavior, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're also using equipment that contradicts exactly what you're trying to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're trying to stop the pulling by using harness that's made for dogs to pull even though if it's a no pull harness It doesn't matter it still works with their reflexes of of pulling
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and so I know it's kind of confusing for dog owners because it's you know because realistically most dog owners just assume long they have they don't have any structure or strategy on how to do this so they go outside and They basically again try to stop something in motion so it's already happening so what you need to do
[SPEAKER_00]: is have more of a strategy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's really important to have strategy and a goal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what are we going to do here?
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of just trying to throw it on the wall and see if it sticks.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my suggestion is to simply go out and reverse engineer this by teaching the dog what we want instead of trying to stop them from what they're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in other words, anytime that I am working with a client under any circumstance, it doesn't matter who it is or what it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want your dog to stop doing something, don't try to just stop the bad thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, again, that's like trying to stop waves in the ocean.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to learn how to surf, you know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, when your dog is pulling, you have to ask yourself, what's the opposite of pulling?
[SPEAKER_00]: What do I need to teach my dog?
[SPEAKER_00]: so they don't pull.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's never going to be how do I stop something.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I call the the very dangerous slippery slope of the stop at syndrome that dog owners get into.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you're chasing something that on the surface makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the headache.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the stress.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does.
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, it just doesn't work like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my suggestion for you is to teach your dog how to walk nicely on the leash before you stop them from pulling.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's really what you should be trying to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Easier said than done, but that's the first step is we need to teach the dog the heel command so that way when we go outside and we ask the dog the heel.
[SPEAKER_00]: they have a fair shot at being successful right now you have no shot the zero and it doesn't matter if it's a Frenchy a great day in a rock wilder or a shepherd you got no shot because the dog doesn't understand what you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the first thing I would do is fundamentally teach your dog what you want her to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is going to be the heel command.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the heel command is essentially the dog walking at your heels.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so another big problem in issue that people have,
[SPEAKER_00]: is right now you are actively trying to get your dog to do something, again, like I talked about the Tour de France in a very busy scenario.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, not only are you trying to stop your dog from doing something, you're trying to stop them in the most primal and stintual, distracting environment possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you are
[SPEAKER_00]: Doubled downing on, you know, what not to do pretty much, which is great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I always told somebody yesterday on the phone.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, the good news is, is you haven't done anything right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were like, well, that's the best thing to hear because.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you called somebody, it said, I'm going to go out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I said.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, look, the good news is is you're frustrated and you're trying to figure this out and you want to do better and you're doing all these things and then you talk to somebody like, you know, a professional and they go, oh, you're doing all the wrong things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, thank God.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if you were doing all the wrong, if you were doing all the right things and it still wasn't working, it's a different issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a different, you know, it's a different beast.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a much more frustrating.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, great.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we got to teach the heel command.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this guy's this goes for any dog in the future now and anyone else you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I want you guys to become trainers basically.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anytime that a dog is doing something that we find in appropriate or that we wanted to discourage or stop from happening, you ultimately have to pull a lever on the reverse end.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, my dog won't come back when I call them.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, how's your recall command?
[SPEAKER_00]: Again same thing for you guys my dog is pulling how's your hair how's your heel?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we don't have you Yeah Pingo Right right right ding ding ding.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why your dog is pulling Now to be fair and to be objective.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are absolutely unicorn dogs out there that just walk nicely next to you And they have since they were puppies and they will until they can't walk anymore for sure They're few and far and between though So That's the first thing you guys should do is pull back
[SPEAKER_00]: Fundamentally teach your dog the heel command so you can go out into reality and pull that lever.
[SPEAKER_00]: That way it's fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a fair ask.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you say, hey, we've worked on this and now I'm asking you to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right now, again, it's confusion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Straight confusion.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're frustrated.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're frustrated.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a nightmare.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my suggestion is to
[SPEAKER_00]: Go inside your home or a non-destracted environment and start to teach the heel command and it's very simple.
[SPEAKER_00]: and I'll walk you through it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You put your dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: The slip leash is great to start inside.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's a good first step.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't have a spring loaded stop or slip leash, you need to get one because it's not going to stay in position.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have them on our website, but essentially most slip leash is 9 times out of 10 if not 9.95 times out of 10.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have a leather or a nylon stopper, which is the thing that you slide up to size the dog's measurement of this thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we do have a stopper on our honor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and if it's a spring loaded one, you're in good shape because the spring loaded one does it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that keeps that in position.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most times the nylon of the leather just slides on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're in your, let's say you're living your home, your hallway, your garage, your basement, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're in an environment where you can make a square or rectangle.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you put the dog on your left side, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: You put the dog all on your left side.
[SPEAKER_00]: You put all the leash on your left side, and this is just with Ducky.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your other dog is not around right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your just for the side.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ducky.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, it's like teaching two kids how to, it's too distracting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, eventually, when you advance this and your dogs understand fundamentally what you're asking, you can go out and walk downtown in a circus and your dogs should be right next to each other healing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't, that's irrelevant, but you gotta have a foundation first.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, put the dog on the left side.
[SPEAKER_00]: You take your slip leash, you fold it in half, and you put your arms down.
[SPEAKER_00]: and you say duck and heel and you start, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you start moving forward and you're going to do a square.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if the dog is on your left side, you're going to take your left leg and you're going to turn 90 degrees to go to make a square or a rectangle, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And if the dog is in the proper position walking at your heels, that's why we call it the heel command, the dog is at your heel.
[SPEAKER_00]: We verbally
[SPEAKER_00]: very simple.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's called marking, capturing, rewarding, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're doing the right thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the good is kind of a precursor in a queue to, okay, I've done something good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a green light there.
[SPEAKER_00]: What have I done good?
[SPEAKER_00]: Heal down, leave it, sit, stay, come.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the good is kind of letting the dog know.
[SPEAKER_00]: That they're doing good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in this context, it's also called a duration marker, so it's kind of like the keep going to thing like, hey, we're not done yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're doing good excellent.
[SPEAKER_00]: You make this square, you stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to do a sit, although I typically do.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only problem with the sit command, nine times out of 10, the dog doesn't know sit without the food lure, which is ill relevant, has zero utility, it makes no sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or the dog has been paid in front of a so much that when you say sit, the dog's gonna swing there by the ground and sit in front of us and ruin the heel, which is both of those things typically happen, we don't want that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of times I'll just stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't say sit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I make sure the dog is still in position.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I say the break command, which is the release command.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK. Now, the next question I typically get is, OK, what if my dog doesn't heal, what if they pull, what if they get out of line?
[SPEAKER_00]: Good question.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where your corrections come in.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you guys are doing this heal in this square in a very clinical non-destroying environment, you are laying the brick work and the groundwork for what the behavior is.
[SPEAKER_00]: this is what heal is just like we teach kids the colors and and the alphabet and numbers is pretty soon they'll be able to put sentences together right so when we're teaching them heal if at any point in time the dog goes out of the heal they pull they whatever try to go behind you you're going to use your leash to just correct and it's just a quick swift pop
[SPEAKER_00]: Think like that kind of like a fish hidden in line.
[SPEAKER_00]: It should dunk like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a tug up.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a throwy across the room.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a quick little snap, especially with a small dog, you know, friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's done.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't need a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just a quick little tug.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the important thing is is making sure that your leash is not tight when you make the correction.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if it any point in time, she pulls and she tightens up that line and she tightens up the leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to put your arm forward to give her a little slack and then pop because if you try to pop something that's tight You're just going to be pulling a straight line won't make any sense to the dog and the reason is you may say and Your head while the dog physically actually gets back into the heel But you're forcing the dog to heel instead of correcting the dog for breaking the heel
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't want that, because now I want the dog to make the decision to back up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want those back legs to go into beep, beep, beep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want them to reverse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bink, bink, bink, bink corrections, like bang, bang, bang, really quick.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the dog comes back.
[SPEAKER_00]: If we pull the dog back, yes, the dog comes back in the position, however, the dog isn't making the decision.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm forcing the dog back.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't want that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want the dog to understand very clear lines, like, er, wrong, er, wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wonderful.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this process, I know that you've had the dog almost her whole life, but not all of her whole life, but this process here is a really important part of building up really any command.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is the same formula you'll use for any behavior, place, recall, you start in a clinical, I say clinical environment, but you know what I'm saying, a non-destracted environment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Next question I typically get is do we use treats rewards because the dog is used to that that dog loves it, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_00]: You absolutely can and it's good to do and I don't discourage it.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, a big problem that I see is a lot of dog owners predicate their training off of motivation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And two things happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog doesn't understand the actual queue in the word that comes out of your mouth.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're only chasing food.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the only time the dog does the behaviors when the food's out, which is not good.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the other thing is, is the dog learns that they are only working for motivation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when you get outside and your dog's whole format of training has been predicated off of following the motivation and reward,
[SPEAKER_00]: you've basically set yourself up for failure because when your dog goes outside and see something motivating and rewarding, aka squirrel, chipmunk, hat, dog, they chase it because you've taught them go after what you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the food becomes secondary to your verbal command to make
[SPEAKER_00]: and it's a rotating variable that might happen and it might not happen, but at the end of the day your voice is going to be the consistency here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Heal, good heal, sit, good sit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe one at a four times their food involved.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, especially when you have an adult dog,
[SPEAKER_00]: that you're basically stepping back into time and rewiring.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have a puppy, and this may sound crazy to some people, but when I get an eight week old puppy, I start the heel command, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I know the product and what happens is if you try to wait for your dog to have issues and drags you down the road like a freight train, and then you go back and try to reverse engineer it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's much harder, takes much more time.
[SPEAKER_00]: The reason why I'm saying that is because you can food lower dogs at an early age, but it's really to just capture shape, mold, and develop.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you can do it at this age, basically it's like paying your kids to do their homework.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't, it's not really the way you want to do it because they should no better at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in the beginning stages you're going to be developing this heal command and you're going to be teaching this heal command and the dog typically after about depending on how many sessions you do and whatever takes about two days for the dog to walk loose on a leash healing around and then what you're going to start to do is you're going to start to break the cycle.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as you start to develop the heel command, you're starting off with a very easy, that's why you do that square because you're just turning into the dog and it's almost impossible for them to mess up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you're setting them up, you're turning into them.
[SPEAKER_00]: They turn with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good heel.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like making it your idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then what you start to do is you start testing the dog and proofing the dog and making sure that they know that that little pocket next to your left foot
[SPEAKER_00]: Is an area that they have to be in until you say break.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and the break command is much more of like a voice inflection thing So think about when we ask a dog to do a behavior.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna be pretty neutral.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna be ducky heal
[SPEAKER_00]: We're healing, it's good heal, good heal, neutral, and then the break is like break.
[SPEAKER_00]: We kind of like turn that healing up a little bit and release the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the break command is used after every command.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not just the heal.
[SPEAKER_00]: The break command is now you can be a dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can sniff.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can do what you want, etc.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's important that we, if we're going to tell our dogs what they can't do, we have to make sure that we have a release command that tells them now you can do what you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just clarity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we're going to eat at the dinner table and now you can be excused.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're doing math and English, now you can go to recess.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's the fundamentals of what everyone deals with in life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you're clocking in at work at eight and you're done at four.
[SPEAKER_00]: There has to be a clear boundary of, you know, it's like you're showing up to work and your boss says,
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so dogs and particular really do well with structure, and so if you don't have that structure of work play work play Things get real sloppy because they don't know when what where does it end and where does it start?
[SPEAKER_00]: So the break command is really important here and So after your heel and then your break then you basically wait 30 seconds to a minute and you say, okay, heal again, and then you break does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the next step typically is doing outside turns.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're going to walk forward in a straight line depending on how your home is set up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people have space and people have limited space, but you're going to walk forward and heal the dog is on your left side.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to assume you're going to turn inside to them and do your square that you normally do.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this time you're basically going to take your right shoulder and spin around 360 and go the other way or 180.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it just depends on how you're set up.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you're going to take your right shoulder and turn and go the other way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you could go in a 90 the other way, or you can spin around and came back where you come from.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the idea here is, and this is where, in my opinion, the rubber meets the road, is if the dog is on the left side on the heel, and you're walking, and you turn and go the other way, if they aren't engaged with you, they're going to get corrected.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to hit the end of the leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what ends up happening is, is this turns into what I call a calibration or a tune-up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you turn your right shoulder.
[SPEAKER_00]: You go the other way if the dog isn't with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bunk.
[SPEAKER_00]: They get corrected.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you start walking.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't look at the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't you don't try not to pay attention too much to the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just turn the other way and start walking.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then 20 steps later you do the same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You turn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost every single dog I've ever worked with in the United States and internationally.
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes about four turns for the dog to then every single time you turn that shoulder, they're right with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because most dog owners don't require any engagement with their dog when they're outside.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just put their dog on a leash, they hang on, they pick up their poop, they bring them back home.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but that's also like, I mean, it's more of a discretionary parenting goal, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's also, I guess, no problem with not really spending any time with your children if you choose not to, but it's, so my point is, is when you're out for a walk with your dog, you should matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should, like your dog should check in with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your dog should ask for permission for certain things, not just do what they want to do, likely like Duckie is doing currently.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is kind of a change for you guys, but it's, and it's to be honest with you guys, it's not, hopefully it's not sounding too hard, but all you're gonna do is you're gonna start creating engagement with your dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: So your dog actually looks at you and cares about you and looks at you for direction.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when you're doing these outside turns, the dog will realize that if they're not looking at you they're going to get corrected.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what happens is is they go from spiraling out of control and pulling like a freight train to Staring straight up at you and watching your every move, because if they're not paying attention to you, they're going to get corrected.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that's how you start creating engagement.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you give your dog a break, and this is a healthy thing to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: So whenever you start to transition into level two obedience, I have three levels.
[SPEAKER_00]: One is where you're at, which is foundation and development.
[SPEAKER_00]: Two is blending the foundation and development into more realistic settings, like maybe outside, but not at the park, maybe in your backyard or your front yard.
[SPEAKER_00]: and then level three is off-leash Yoda type of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your dog is running around with another dog and you say down and they fly into it down and skit across the grass.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's level three.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as you guys are developing the different levels of obedience,
[SPEAKER_00]: All you're doing is you're starting to copy and paste what you're working on in the classroom or in the practice field.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're starting to develop this blend into more realistic settings.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So understanding this foundation and this road map and of what we're talking about, it makes it clearer for you guys that what you're doing is you're taking a dog that doesn't know what you want and you're putting them into a level three environment and expecting the best and obviously it's not working, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why I always give people this context where you understand the build of how to start building a dog up so that they do listen off leash and they
[SPEAKER_00]: Once you understand the precautionary steps, proactively needed to teach the dog a behavior, it's really clear once you realize what you're doing now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, that's why we're messing up.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're outside in the real world trying to get our dog to do something.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so once you guys practice the heel and the inside turns and the outside turns you start developing different triggers for the dog as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so those triggers are typically going to be like speeding up, slowing down, turning directions, turning inside.
[SPEAKER_00]: and then starting to transfer to outside and all you're looking for is engagement, control, making sure the dog is paying attention to you, making sure you matter, and you're using that correction tool to make sure that the dog stays in line with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does.
[SPEAKER_03]: So,
[SPEAKER_03]: with us having the two dogs, obviously we can work on this with Frankie as well, so you can walk them both in heel position.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's like the ultimate goal.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like when they're actually trained, they're both going to walk in a heel.
[SPEAKER_03]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll just always be the same, like, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if I teach and I have a, I have a, a massive and I have a shepherd.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I teach them separately,
[SPEAKER_00]: the fundamentals of heel and what it means and that there's accountability if they decide to flip me off and say I'm doing what I want.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's also rewards involved if they do the right thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: What ends up happening is, is they both understand at a fundamental level what the behavior is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I slowly teach them separate.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I slowly start to ingrain them together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they go, oh, I have to do this with her or him too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so again, you know, I have two young boys of one year old in the three-year-old and if I teach them manner separately at no point in time, but I expect those things to go out the window just because they're sitting at the same dinner table, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So same thing with the dogs, you have to develop these skills separately and then you start to combine them together.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, 30,000 feet above, now you guys kind of understand really quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: The road map here, you can understand why you're failing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going out with another dog who also doesn't know the behavior in a real life distraction.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, like I said at the beginning of this conversation is you're doing all the wrong things, so that's a good part.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yes, so you would teach the other dog the same concepts and once they can stand on their own two feet on the heel command or whatever thing you're doing,
[SPEAKER_00]: then you start to blend them together and have the same expectations and a lot of times it's it's very granular so for an example one of you may have the male and then one of you may have duckie and you guys are both healing the dogs but they're not healing right next to each other in the same hand just yet so it's a real like you know kind of getting into the hot tub type of thing it may take some time but once you're in you're in and you're acclimated but it does take time
[SPEAKER_00]: to get to that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason why I'm telling you all these steps is because once you have these commands, it's sustainable.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't have to go back to the drawn board and fight with your dogs every day.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's once they understand the expectations of what you want,
[SPEAKER_00]: that's it it's done like with my dog Lakota for an example i went for walk with her this morning she's a level three dog and she's about eleven years old and she's she's been my she was kind of my starter working dog right and so she goes outside and she i don't she has it been on a leash and just when she goes to the groomer maybe or the vet and so when i bring her out i walk around my neighborhood completely off leash surrounded by dogs and cars and everything and i just tell her what i wanted to do and she does it
[SPEAKER_00]: There is no corrections, there's no collars, there's no e-collars, there's no yelling, it's just a car's coming and she's in front of me, stop, she stops.
[SPEAKER_00]: A dog's coming and heal, she's healing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the expectations are clear and she just does everything I say systematically because she's we we everything that she does a lot of people are impressed with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: They go, wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: How long did it, and I explained to people, I go, she was, I haven't trained her at all since six months.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's 11 years old, because I already did all the work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I'm just conditioning or practicing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You get into the best shape of your life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, if you stop working out, you're going to decline and you're going to regress.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get into the best shape in your life and you sustain that and you condition.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to probably stay there as long as you keep running the miles and whatever, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's the same thing with dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why you guys have to separately individually train each dog and then bring them together just like you would with kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, I have a three-year-old and a one-year-old and obviously one was born before the other And so we are developing these two human beings separately, but when they are together, they know their manners and they, you know, so it's the same thing with dogs
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, what most people do is they throw it on the wall and expect it like, oh, shit, you know, how do I stop this, you know, they just, but they don't know, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's, and sometimes that's just because they had a unicorn dog and now they're naive, you know, they, they're like, well, my old dog, my past dog, my, when I was a kid, it's like, well, that's, now you got docky.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, so that's the stuff, a couple of questions,
[SPEAKER_01]: What well we're in this phase of getting her to, you know, really ingrained the heel command, she's a very high energy dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: So can we be taking our sort of traditional walk is that counterproductive, you know, what how do we handle that in the in between time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, she's learning this.
[SPEAKER_01]: but still needs, you know, a walk.
[SPEAKER_01]: She has a high drive, you know, very high energy dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we handle that situation?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a great question.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, right now you're, you know, teaching her the fundamentals, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you shouldn't, and you won't expect her to be in a heal everywhere all the time because she's just learning, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: it's necessary for you guys to practice daily, really, but that's why we're introducing the break command.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's say for example, you do your heel work inside and you give your break and then you go for a walk with both dogs, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, when you go to the door, you're going to work on your threshold.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to put the dog into a sit and you're going to wait for the dog
[SPEAKER_00]: is you say break now the dog can be on a break for the entire walk, but it's on your terms.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you basically have said, I'm going to allow this, but, but, and usually after, you know, by the end of the first week of introducing the heel command, you can start outside cutting out and punching out little training sessions.
[SPEAKER_00]: You say, okay, you go on with the other dog and I'm going to work duckie here or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you, you know, maybe work in a quieter area of your walk or park or whatever and you start doing your square outside.
[SPEAKER_00]: You start saying, hey, we're doing this shit here too.
[SPEAKER_00]: It all, we're doing it everywhere, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Ducky will start going, okay, and then it makes more sense once you start applying it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's a great question.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even on day one, when you're introducing the heel command, you have to make everything on your terms, because right now your dog is making all the decisions.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's awful.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean for your relationship with your dog dogs do not like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't do well in that.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't thrive in that and depending on the breed and the personality of the dog it'll either be we have a dog that is lovely and nice to everybody and kisses everybody but doesn't listen to anything and it's a nightmare or you'll have a dog that starts to get protective and reactive and anxious and aggressive and mean and because
[SPEAKER_00]: They're terrified because nobody's in charge because they've been allowed to do whatever they want which is the worst way to ruin a dog and in the quickest way.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you guys start working on heel today, when you go for a walk later tonight, work on your threshold at your door, making sure the dog doesn't just run out, and then you say break.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you guys, in my opinion, what would be really helpful for you?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a kickstarter course which goes over the five
[SPEAKER_00]: And the Kickstarter course was developed for people like you who were like, okay, this makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to kind of get a refresh in a restart with a relationship with their dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's extra curriculum.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I teach the break.
[SPEAKER_00]: I teach the threshold.
[SPEAKER_00]: I teach the heel and the recall and the place.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the leave it maybe too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can't remember.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I did it with a puppy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that Kickstarter course is really would be really helpful for you guys and then we also have a master the walk course, which is fundamentally an entire course on how to introduce the heel and I used it with the hardest pulling dog we could find and I did it in a day.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and you can get those in like a combo to save money.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, that's just extra curriculum I would suggest.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just so you guys can do your homework and of course, when you buy the course, it's yours forever and you can work on it at your own time and it has modules where you can look up exactly, please collar, you know, maybe the slip stops working or maybe you regress and you have a question, but you know, and you don't know the answer, you can always, you know, find the answer on those two courses as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so that's really what I think you guys should be working on and it goes for everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: So once you dog learns boundaries,
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's really what you're creating.
[SPEAKER_00]: You put your dog in a leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: If your dog isn't trained, they're just going to go, right in front of you and they're like, and you're just skating.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now you're just, I tell people, you're not walking your dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're hanging out.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not, like, let's, let's be real.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and that's, and again, it's interesting with a 20 pound.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't want that, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You want.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, it's like a lot of people are, you know, they talk about the polling sucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: But for me, working with dogs as long as I have, what really sucks is seeing people's relationship with their dog suffer.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what really, that's what sad to me is people may, like, on the outside he got my dog's pulling in and this is annoying and whatever and now it's a chore walking my dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I see is a disconnected dog who doesn't have any engagement, any discipline, any boundaries, any guidance, any leadership.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what's, in my opinion, more at risk.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so once you got, and this is kind of like a cool thing that you'll see, I always talk about like a micro and a macro.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the micro is is you're going to learn how to teach your dog, how to walk nice and a leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: The macro is, is everything with your relationship with your dog will start to change.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your dog will be calmer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your dog will be more engaged.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your dog will be more likely to check in with you to ask for certain things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your dog will feel more confident and more structured around you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so your relationship will start to change once you start implementing boundaries, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like imagine living with an animal and just telling them that they can do whatever they want, when they want.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a nightmare.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not only a nightmare for like your everyday lifestyle with the dog, with their jumping on everybody barking at you for stuff, spinning in circles, being anxious, pulling you on the leash, etc.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's also the dog is living in like the nervous system of the dog is living in this kind of fighter flight stage all the time and that's where I see again working I'm an expert in behavior and aggression and stuff and almost every time a dog who comes in that has reactivity doesn't have what I'm talking to you about and so interesting enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: When we were making the Kickstarter course, it actually was a puppy course because I was using like a 15-week old puppy at the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And me, I looked at my videoographer halfway through it and I go, this is what every single aggressive dog and reactive dog is missing.
[SPEAKER_00]: What we're talking about right here is the same stuff I would work on with a dog who came in that has killed another dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why we reframed it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, this is the kickstarter course.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't puppy course.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, so what questions do you have about about this?
[SPEAKER_01]: One thing is far as, you know, we've done a little bit of work on the slip leash, just a very little, but we have, you know, tried.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're going to, obviously, you're going to tell me I've told you wrong, but she doesn't respond to the correction really well and show, she'll just sort of choke herself out if you let her.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know if it's something, you know, in our technique or.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she just doesn't seem to respond really well to the correction of this lovely view.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like Frankie really does.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, you show it to him and he will.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he.
[SPEAKER_01]: He sits up and flies right.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you just show him the slip, the slip lead.
[SPEAKER_01]: But but Ducky is just, yeah, that's just her personality.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's she doesn't respond all that well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know it obviously it's we need to spend time and really drill it and be consistent with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But any, any thoughts on that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a great question and I kind of hinted at it earlier about your tools and stuff and that's again, that's in the, that's in that course because there is a ladder.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and this is fascinating actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you, you know, if you were to go on my YouTube channel for an example and you were to see all the dogs I work with one of the things I do as I introduce either a better fitting tool or a new tool and the reason that is is because I am I am trying to reverse engineer something I'm not trying to teach something new for the most part meaning it's it's the I don't want to say the damage is already done but the dog is already
[SPEAKER_00]: do in the thing we didn't want them to do and now we have to go back.
[SPEAKER_00]: So equipment for me and my training is a big part of that for that reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't get, I don't work with puppies.
[SPEAKER_00]: People don't bring, typically when people are working with me, I mean, I do sometimes, but for the most part they're like holy crap, we made big mistakes, my dogs and mess, and then I have to, you know, reverse engineer everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so your equipment,
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, like, for an example, the reason why I'm telling you this is if you started with Ducky with a slip laser, Martin Gaocoller, when she was a puppy, you'd be the dog would be more sensitive and understanding to the equipment, to the pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right now, and I know that you didn't have the dog since a puppy, but really, really age.
[SPEAKER_00]: But right now, the dog has been pulling like a freight train since day one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now you so it's kind of like anything else in life, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you get really, really, really out of shape and now you have to go into very drastic Heights to then get healthy, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you just started in the beginning, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like and that goes for anything in life, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like
[SPEAKER_00]: if you just change your oil in your car you wouldn't have to now get a new engine bubble ball.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's the same thing with dogs and so now you're dealing with a dog that's insensitive to leash pressure because they've been pulling like a freight train their whole life because the harness allows that to happen, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And most people with Frenchies do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, the sensitivity is going to change and be variable on the dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, that's why we have this ladder system.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's say you go out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the correction timing, so we talked about that pressure, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're trying to correct your dog when they're pulling, you lost.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: In effective.
[SPEAKER_03]: I practice when it's played.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to correct it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like I said, that's what I'm saying is like the the courses are real good like visual because I'm you're watching me do this or on my YouTube as well, which is free.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but my point is, is when you are correcting a lot of people, the same thing, they call me and they see Tom, I took your course, I did this and I did that and they send me a picture even or a video and I'm watching the dog pull and then they're popping it, it doesn't work so your timing matters and again your fit matters, that's why we have all of our own equipment on our website because, you know, I've developed them all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And but but if the dog if you're doing the correction properly in the dogs like I don't care about this then you move up like a prom collar or plastic pinch collar or something that has more pressure to the dog and that's very common.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's not uncommon, like, hey, we have a dog that's pulled like a freight train in their whole life.
[SPEAKER_00]: We use a slip leash and they just choke themselves out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, A, that's common, it makes sense, and B, it's obviously doing more harm than good, and then that's where you move to a safer collar, like the prong or the plastic pinch collar.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's the same principle, it's just, it's more effective a lot of times with dogs who are insensitive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because again, the dog is insensitive to leash pressure, because the dog has been pulling like a freight train since day one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, people when they get puppies and they pop them on a harness, they're not doing themselves any favors.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in fact, when the dog is older, they're going to be kicking themselves in the butt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go on, why did I let my 80-pound lab pull me all over town?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it puppy?
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, it's like you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, again, anyway, I digress.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were...
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're interested in it in the course is we actually considering we looked into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're considering that three day, your three day course sort of onsite, or I think it's the one that we're treated as a one day and three day, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, obviously to me, that would be sort of a immersive crash course, is that what you consider the difference, you know, being with other dogs at at some point in the training, is that the main difference between, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: having you take your course on YouTube videos and coming live.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good question.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a little bit of both.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the education, like if you came to work with me in person either my one day or my three day.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you took my course, you would be onboarded with terminology, techniques, equipment, etc.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so you're be ahead of the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like studying before a test.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure, sure, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but if you just jumped in to working with me, um, because a lot of people who come in and work with me, they have my equipment, they they know they know everything, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So we can kind of hit the ground running.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you come in cold and you don't know anything and I have to kind of explain everything that I'm explaining to you now, it takes more time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, the more education and the more training you can do before you get to me is going to save us time when you do get to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: But obviously, working with me in person and me being able to evaluate and see everything that you're doing in real time is the gold standard, because I can actually, especially with a dog like this, I can take the leash real quick and show you, meaning there's some dogs I can't take the leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to completely panoke the owner through the situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's definitely, you know, plus is in minuses and advantages.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, being in Buffalo, I know it's not a short drive, but compared to a lot of people who either fly or, you know, have to spend three days on the road.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's relatively closer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and I know that that's subjective.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it is, it is, you know, I think for you guys, it would be a good program because I think, you know, in my whole, my whole thing is teaching owners.
[SPEAKER_00]: like I'm not in the dog business.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm in the people business.
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes me less than five minutes, ten minutes with each dog I've ever worked with ever, no matter the reason cause or issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think any experienced dog trainer should be able to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what the real magic is is being able to teach you how to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because nobody gives you, you know, you bring a dog to a dog trainer.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah, look what they can do.
[SPEAKER_00]: They should be able to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what the real magic is and what I think I pride myself on a lot is working with people and explaining how to do things with people is the most important thing because I'm not going home with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder how much you ask.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so I think there's benefits to both for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, being living in New York, although it's about a four hour drive, it's still, even if you came for the one day you guys would get quite a bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: But obviously the more you work with me, the more,
[SPEAKER_00]: the more, you know, but the more we get to do so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure, sure, sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that makes little sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: And and by the way, she is a total sweetheart.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're hooked on this dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't want to paint her to be a monster.
[SPEAKER_01]: She is a total sweetheart.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think she is trainable.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just we have to get ourselves on track, which like we've been talking
[SPEAKER_03]: Should you spend like first day, second day like I don't want to, I want to be realistic about it and like what do you think is a, you know, reasonable amount of time, just aware I'm not like getting frustrated or you know, do you have any suggestions with that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, typically.
[SPEAKER_00]: For like introducing this stuff, I would say like 10 minute sessions throughout the day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Perfect.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can handle that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just do many sessions throughout the day.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wonderful.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you guys for asking us.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: No questions for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish you guys the best.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like I said, the exciting thing and the good thing is you guys haven't done anything right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an exciting thing because you're like, oh, we've been doing everything wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're up we're up for a total reset night cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll likely come out to you whether it's the one or the three will kind of chat and look at schedules and incredible schedule and and that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you'll likely see us here some time amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That sounds great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well good luck with everything and yeah, maybe we'll see soon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, all right, bye.