[SPEAKER_03]: And welcome to the lower hounds where your guides to the dance of dragons.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is our feedback episode for House of the Dragon episode six season three faceless men with me here as always is young.
[SPEAKER_03]: How are you doing?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm good.
[SPEAKER_03]: How are you?
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: How are you feeling today?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you know how we started off the last episode with PSAs on some health related things.
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's the PSA for today.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had like, uh, some meetings and some presentations to yesterday and I was, I took too much cough syrup and man, that stuff will mess you up.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's your PSA for today, you only use as directed as directed.
[SPEAKER_03]: No lean.
[SPEAKER_03]: No lean, no lean.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: I, I had, I, like, I had always kind of knew about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was a thing, however, and I was like, oh, I was like, why am I feeling all dizzy and loopy and stuff?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a little bit too much.
[SPEAKER_03]: A little too much.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm hanging in there, but I'm cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: All good.
[SPEAKER_03]: All good, good.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we got a bunch of emails.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've got a bunch of discord messages.
[SPEAKER_03]: I could even add a text message.
[SPEAKER_03]: No voice mail messages this week.
[SPEAKER_03]: But we got a few things to talk about.
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's dive in.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll cover all the mean feedback.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got a little bit of a situation briefing for the military corner stuff and I got some other military corner stuff to talk about, we got some feedback from Nate, and then at the very, very end as per usual, we'll do some bookpitching, Alicia sent in some more notes about the book spoilery stuff, so we'll give you plenty of warning before we get into those things.
[SPEAKER_03]: but, uh, John, you want to lead us off with, uh, leftover.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, come up from Maryland.
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is from Maryland over.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not just quite a Maryland.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much for all the engagement and all the notes because.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're so knowledge and I love that she's not watching the show, but she's listening to the podcast and she's reading the descriptions on the, you know, online like reading recaps and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So she's fully participating without watching this show.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, whenever she writes, I have pen and pad right exactly exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Regarding male masculine, squeamishness around all things menstrual, I have yet to hear of a culture or a time in which this was not the case.
[SPEAKER_04]: In fact, there is a theory among archaeologists and prehistoryins that the whole impetus for male initiation rights that drew blood as part of the coming of manhood was means was a means of demonstrating that they too could bleed upon maturation.
[SPEAKER_04]: This goes back to paleolithic times, if I recall correctly, but it does not mean that there was no understanding of the basic function, the why of menstruation.
[SPEAKER_04]: They observed, excuse me.
[SPEAKER_04]: to mock her, they observed and heard it in of animals to understand the concept of being in heat for reproduction, but also knew that one did not produce children unless one coupled with a woman who had blood.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was also a sense of mystery.
[SPEAKER_04]: I could a woman believed for several days, seemingly without having been wounded.
[SPEAKER_04]: and yet survive, then there's the mystery of entrainment, which many women first experienced when they lived in women's dormitories for the first time and found that their period times, my shift until they were all bleeding at pretty much the same time.
[SPEAKER_04]: This could also have led to the concept of the red tent, a time when women could be with themselves apart from men, enrest, laugh, and celebrate this amazingly potent ability.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, a little history lesson there from Maryland.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep, things I did not know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, pinnipad.
[SPEAKER_04]: Classes and sessions, so yeah, that was that I had no idea.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what I think we talked about this on the main pod, too, what continually amazes me is that this is basic bile, this is where every human being that you see on the planet,
[SPEAKER_03]: came from this process.
[SPEAKER_03]: So why are we squeamish about the process, the very process by which we came from and go forward with it just it boggles my mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: I get some people like, oh, you know, I don't want to draw blood or I get a scratch or whatever, like totally, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, I think it's I think it's because we have no control over it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, we have men have no control over that, no function, no role in it, no brain to claim as this is a provenance of hours, which is what, you know, we've learned from generation, from generation to generation all the way.
[SPEAKER_04]: to now.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you still have these feelings that, oh, you know, I, oh, this is, oh, I can't do it with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't, oh, no.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, it's because we have no control over it.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's, that's what I think.
[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks Marilyn for sending that in and yeah, it often makes for good plot mechanics, being able to get past the slip past the guards using the excuse.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, the next thing we want to talk about, this goes back a couple of episodes, but our friend JD over at the Dungeons and two rags podcast on their last episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were talking about this.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the dude that was the faceless assassin, quote, I'm going to I'm using that term, loosely that Damon killed this episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, who's the assassins that were part of that secret cell
[SPEAKER_03]: J.D.
[SPEAKER_03]: went back and pulled 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21 screen shots, creating a definitive proof that the dude is the same dude, and he texted it to me, and I'll drop it
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, I texted him back and I said, you know, this is, this is truly nerd hound level, but you know, the more hound nerd level behavior, and this is what I have to say to you, JD.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a nerd.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a nerd too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just found that out tonight.
[SPEAKER_03]: You haven't checked out the Dungeons & Door eggs podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: Go check out those guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: They have a fun diet.
[SPEAKER_03]: They crack me up every time they start up their podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's hilarious.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're on YouTube as well as a podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you've been checking in with them since we've been.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I did.
[SPEAKER_04]: I listened to this week's episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: I listened to every week's episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Pretty hilarious.
[SPEAKER_04]: Good stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: uh... all right uh... you want to carry on with the uh... from can w we can uh... poetic episode recap from can w v a e-mail
[SPEAKER_04]: An episode full of intrigue has been against qui, mother against Prince, Prince against Uncle, Prince against a city, has the Libby of the river finally caught her one-eyed boy, or this finds his way only to meet his end, or did he?
[SPEAKER_04]: Has Damon turned a dragon rider against them all, because he wanted a drink down the locals, he wanted a drink down the locals with his pal.
[SPEAKER_04]: Adam and they let get it on, how will Alan feel?
[SPEAKER_04]: Hazrinas in Decision, Reynoris in Decision cost out of throne.
[SPEAKER_04]: The bad homens are circling.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'll say, I think it's Allen and Baylor who got it on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of battle with circular gear, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: They are really setting up a constellation for a lot of whole men, vultures, everything is just bad news all over the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of balls in there, and we're just waiting for some catalytic element to sort of precipitate all of this stuff to come crashing down.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think when you sort of lean back, it's like, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: to the story line, to the characters, the performance, the acting, the CGI, all that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, we can get real, or why did they put this scene here?
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't make sense there.
[SPEAKER_03]: What's the pacing was going on here?
[SPEAKER_03]: But then if we sort of fade back, how does that change our perception of the show?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I can at least say that in terms of setting up this really calm, plex,
[SPEAKER_03]: series of whirling knives right you know it's just this swirl of stuff and at any moment this stuff is all gonna cascade down.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's hard to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just really hard to do from a writing standpoint for production standpoint so I'm gonna give the folks a little bit of props.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because there are kitchen a lot of uh, strays from a lot of different angle.
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people have criticisms of the seasons so far this year.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some people are really enjoying it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some people are like, or are our national
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, I hear all of it, and I don't disagree with all of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then when you think about all of the things that they're setting up, I got to give them a little something.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, yeah, this is a really complex story.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't feel like they're bungling it too badly.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, with this episode in particular, you know, it wasn't my favorite episode, but they did a lot in the episode to set up what's going to happen.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, to set up to add, to make these questions that
[SPEAKER_04]: this episode sets up these questions, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is I think a good part of the story telling that they are doing is that they're giving enough, giving enough threads for us to try to get
[SPEAKER_04]: make a tapestry out of them, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, really.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we have a lot to think about and how one's action is going to impact another person and how, you know, what will be the ripple effect of those actions.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think this episode did a good job in that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to, I'll put this out here now.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll talk about a little bit later when we do the military corner stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think one of the biggest elements that's up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Big question mark out there is which way Baratians going to jump.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now book readers may already know this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have, that's a detail.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not spoiled yet on book stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm happy to be excited by it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I just feel like they're doing a bunch of setup in the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, we haven't heard from porous.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, he's, oh, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like send him another raven.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, where is he?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, he's down in the, you know, whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: Whatever, if I'm fighting the Vulture King, blah, blah, blah, they're like making a lot of noise about the fact that where's worse, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like when do you gonna come?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think they're going to use that in some way, but I think that's a waffle, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Watch and find out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, definitely, best of.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, if nobody sends in a bookpitch in section or anything like that, and I'm unspoiled on that, that will be fine with me, but if I accident, okay, I'll be all right too.
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't really want to spoil it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'll be curious to see which way old boros goes.
[SPEAKER_03]: We got a new email from Jacob G. I think Jacob, this is your first time emailing you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for coming.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is really momentous occasion if you really is your first on that we were appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Email from Jacob G. If you have a dragon and more broadly power, but nothing else, do you really have anything at all?
[SPEAKER_03]: This is like, yeah, yeah, you look at at this sentence, the simple question,
[SPEAKER_03]: And you start to unpack it, it goes in so many different directions.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's such a simple, you know, it's only a handful of English words strung together, but there's a lot in here.
[SPEAKER_03]: So what you go ahead first, I just wanted to highlight the fact that this is actually kind of a deep question.
[SPEAKER_04]: I would say yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you have a dragon, you have it all.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I am beat.
[SPEAKER_04]: Whether you know how to use it properly or not, I think the dragon trims everything else.
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like if we look at our modern day world,
[SPEAKER_04]: those with nukes and those without nukes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right?
[SPEAKER_04]: They get to say in a lot of things that maybe they shouldn't have season, but because of what they possess, they are taken and treated seriously on the world stage.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, yes, I think having the dragon and that the
[SPEAKER_03]: So, this, of course, makes me think of Varus' riddle, which is, you know, where does power reside?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's where men believe it that it does.
[SPEAKER_03]: When Olf is down at the local, he doesn't have his dragon with him.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if somebody wanted to do him harm, that could happen.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then that dragon would be right or less.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well loose, you know, it's a, it's an animal, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Or it's a, it's a, some sort of semi-intelligent beast, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't mean to, sorry, don't, don't at me, everybody who track it's a, because I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say here, they, I'm saying, I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say about these dragons.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think nothing about the dragon.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, okay, okay, okay, all right, all right, all right, all right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just saying that when there's not a human being in pair with that dragon to direct the dragon to burn this, don't burn that.
[SPEAKER_03]: The dragons are just going to do what dragons are going to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you have, sure, Ulf is a dragon writer, but he's just another guy down at the pub.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all those other systems that are around Ulf that protect him, that mark him as such.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's the social construction.
[SPEAKER_03]: that he's something different than just an average pub gore.
[SPEAKER_04]: I agree with that, but the protection is only because he is a dragon rider.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you as a resident of flea bottom or a local in the pub, kill off,
[SPEAKER_04]: what will be the reaction to that?
[SPEAKER_04]: If, if was not a dragon rider, the reaction might not be anything at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: But because of is a dragon rider, there are other dragon riders who will be coming to look for you.
[SPEAKER_04]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what I'm saying is the social construction.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so the dragon.
[SPEAKER_03]: because of the dry it be you know now if could be walked stumbling home at night and I could just be a common robber not know that he's a dragon rider you know jump him he you know I knock him out oh and he he's more gravely wounded than that I meant but I just steal his purse and I run off
[SPEAKER_03]: There's still going to come for me because he's he's because he's a dragon right, but I didn't know that it doesn't matter and so the power right it's it I don't know that he's got that power, but the rest of the system knows that he has that right, but the power resides with the dragon.
[SPEAKER_03]: It flows from the dragon.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, because we make it so we socially construct that power.
[SPEAKER_04]: And because the dragon is the dragon.
[SPEAKER_04]: But whether we socially give the dragon the power, the dragon has power, that's what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, so again, I just think that everything flows from and to keep it with this
[SPEAKER_04]: is not past, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: He's not, you know, someone that you just, oh, it's only off, you know, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's the off that you used to know.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the new off.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_04]: Right?
[SPEAKER_04]: That I fly on the back of one of the most powerful entity in all of our culture
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to throw one more argument in your direction, let's see what it goes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Minor spoilers for the wire and Omar, how did Omar go down, kid in the store, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: I got him sitting back everybody, I got him sitting back.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's holding his chin.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's rubbing his chin and sitting back away from the microphone.
[SPEAKER_03]: We can you can hold that one if you come back to your later if you want to you would talk about a later.
[SPEAKER_04]: Or maybe we'll get some emails in.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll get some comments going on the discord.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I'm always not a dragon right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm always not a dragon right because we all got guns.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right
[SPEAKER_04]: And he went sort of ignobley as well as, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
[SPEAKER_04]: I was.
[SPEAKER_04]: I am in the, I know you and a lot of other folks wanted to see him get flambied by a dragon, but I thought this was, this was just, this was just dope.
[SPEAKER_04]: Two to the guts and one to the face.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is, this is just, no words, nothing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was on a recording yesterday with Lisa and Brian for into the West for a little in the Moriam for Samuel.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we were laughing about the fact that you actually turned off the TV and sat down like 10 minutes.
[SPEAKER_04]: I revel in that shit, I go, I'm not going to pretend that I did not.
[SPEAKER_04]: I told y'all that when it happened and I happened to see his cold dead eyes would be a party and that's there right what I did.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Chris, we call get him out of here.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's done.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're done.
[SPEAKER_04]: But they'll always be rocks to kill many.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's many rocks and unless there might be less rocks, but there's a lot of rocks still left lots all right.
[SPEAKER_04]: We got a we got a message from Anisha
[SPEAKER_04]: nothing more to say about Christian cold.
[SPEAKER_04]: Other than I'm so happy for the you know, I think we all cheer it on, John's behalf.
[SPEAKER_03]: Watch the chat.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I love my community that you guys know me so well, this is amazing.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm happy the winter walls and black alley and got at least a moment of triumph in it too.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's only shameful no one said the line about there being no songs about
[SPEAKER_04]: a no one singing the praises of the cell style, best warrior and westerns in their world or ours.
[SPEAKER_04]: Would have loved those extra scenes Fabian Franco said, got cut though.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_04]: When, well, my dreams are seeing Lord Zucchini cook up a lot, on a skewer, also called true.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's nothing I hate more than men, people who don't see cruelty for the short-sighted stupidity and abject weakness that it is.
[SPEAKER_04]: Tesseron.
[SPEAKER_04]: Tracaris.
[SPEAKER_04]: not a spoiler.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is not a spoiler.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is not what happens in the book.
[SPEAKER_04]: PS.
[SPEAKER_04]: There was a lot of body fluids in the team or mind assessing scene.
[SPEAKER_04]: There was a lot.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, again, thank you for seeing me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Everyone, Alicia, can W. Everyone on the discord who celebrated and said
[SPEAKER_04]: for really relishing in my happiness and joy as seeing Christian cold dead.
[SPEAKER_04]: It makes me feel seen and welcomed.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's really, you know David, when you find people who just accept you for who you are,
[SPEAKER_03]: and you don't have to work to prove nothing.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, you know, you could just look at a hated TV rival on the screen dead.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they all know, yes, this is a moment for the jump.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is what we're talking about.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is so awesome.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'm glad your community was there for you, Jean.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's do this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's take a quick commercial break and then when we come back, we'll talk a little bit about Darren the downtrodden.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're back, what do we got next, Joe?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, from Zatolechi on the discord.
[SPEAKER_04]: As a teacher, I've sadly worked with abuse kids, and I totally believed that they were on can't feel that he can fight back against Warman, even with his dragon.
[SPEAKER_04]: The culture of emotional and mental abuse has him feeling helpless and overpowered, even if he had a dragon.
[SPEAKER_04]: An extra sad thing is he might make the best
[SPEAKER_04]: And next to that thing, is he might make the best king out of all the kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that last statement is interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: He, Darren certainly has, seems like he's got some empathy and some kindness in him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Whether that would translate into being able to operate the maneuver, the levers of power, and to be able to sit up on that throne.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a good question.
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't know what what's going to happen to him as he ages and move through the couple more stages of his life, you know, as we know, our brains aren't fully cooked until we're into sort of our 20s and so we know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Got to see what happens, but I do pick up on the point that.
[SPEAKER_03]: there's a lot to be sympathetic about towards terror.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_03]: Definitely.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just want to just as a person, not even in his circumstances, just as a, yeah, it seems like a good kid.
[SPEAKER_04]: But that's the thing, too, is that we don't really know who he is.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because he's been so shaped by our mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's various of being raised by him.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we don't truly know who he is.
[SPEAKER_04]: he doesn't know who he is right exactly so he could he seemingly seems like yes right but how much of that is something that was beaten down into him this this you know approach at
[SPEAKER_04]: living.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: How do I survive this?
[SPEAKER_04]: I survive this by being what?
[SPEAKER_04]: What's my right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, on smooth and controversial, nothing for him to hitch no friction points.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we would hope that we would hope that someone like that would be able to use that experience to be better.
[SPEAKER_03]: you know people hurt people this too.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we'll talk about this on the next second breakfast when we record next week.
[SPEAKER_03]: But because, you know, we talk about what we're watching.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, maybe I'll do a watch of watching with this as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: My wife and I have been binging, winning time, the LA Lakers.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Think from HBO, I think I asked you, you said you had to.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I haven't watched it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not a Laker fan.
[SPEAKER_03]: OK. Well, you don't have to be a Laker fan to it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know, but you know, it's David.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not a Laker fan.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I, and I'm loving the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, can't have me done.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know me well enough.
[SPEAKER_03]: I shouldn't try to drag you to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the interesting thing is that we've got to this can't be spoilers, but at the point where Pat Riley becomes the coach, and actually Pat Riley, oh my god, David, I can't believe he's spoiled a, you know, six year old Joe or whatever, he right because they document the whole thing through the all of the coaching through McKinney and Woodhead and then to Riley.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when Riley's the coach for a few games after they've given him the job, he is his old self.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's not until he takes on this persona of his new self with the slick back hair and the Ermani suits and the gum chew you know and like really just riled up and fighting crazy.
[SPEAKER_03]: That his team coalesces and like gets energized and really sees him.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were walking all over him and then there's this moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, this is a fictionalized story, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not who knows what the reality is here.
[SPEAKER_03]: But this idea that
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's a moment when you shift and you take on leadership in a different way, you shift your persona in a different way.
[SPEAKER_03]: Once you're in the job, the way the job starts affecting you and whether you can rise into that moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's what's interesting to watching Reneera is her going through that same evolution of trying to find her power and can she draw people to her power and to create those relationships in those dynamics where she can exercise her power.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we don't know with Darren what that is for him because he's not there yet he's and he's under the cloak of this other guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: We want to believe that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but can we.
[SPEAKER_03]: have faith in them.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's just no way to know except for time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: What do we got next?
[SPEAKER_04]: We got human off not having a good time.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, all born.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is from Alicia.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love seeing Verma Thore and Silver Ring, he went off's dragons, canoe dueling, as a reminder that their previous and only other riders, which are here at the first, have a Santagaria.
[SPEAKER_04]: Brother Sister King and Queen, and lifelong loves Ike.
[SPEAKER_04]: meaning their dragons were also paired and went almost everywhere together for many decades.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, so that's like a little easter egg that they gave us in the show then showing the two dragons canudling a little bit there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay, that's cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like a little wink, right to those who know the dragons who know that's cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: The book notes that the two dragons were often seen curled up together in the fields in the art tumbleton around this time.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it does make me worry, given how this show has emphasized that dragon riders do not have total control over their dragons.
[SPEAKER_04]: That these dragons may have some points show more loyalty to each other than their riders.
[SPEAKER_04]: I really don't understand who's wife's reaction.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, here comes a hot take.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think a little bit.
[SPEAKER_04]: He has a freaking dragon.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why is he blaming him for vague, yet more rapy, apparently things that happened on the King's Road?
[SPEAKER_04]: We keep being told that you can't leave the house in this version of Westeros, without someone trying to rape you, unless you have a family dragon.
[SPEAKER_04]: don't turn your nose up at the smell of a dragon you snob.
[SPEAKER_04]: Clearly this tension has added to the show to create more drama for a few later, but it doesn't leave me caring about her rescue if she doesn't even want it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it's off getting more likable, you ladle
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you think you're doing?
[SPEAKER_04]: Under us, um, friend.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, he's not likable or relatable.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just put that out there right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_04]: And no, get off the fuck up outta here.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: I do like his act.
[SPEAKER_04]: That was very funny.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he's good comic relief.
[SPEAKER_04]: Should he be treated the way that he's been treated by Damon?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, nobody.
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely not.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, but no, he's not like a bullies.
[SPEAKER_04]: At least for me.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was wife.
[SPEAKER_04]: When we spoke about it, I stared veered away from the accusations that she'd lodged on him.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not even the accusations, let me not say accusations.
[SPEAKER_04]: I veered away from what she told them happened to her on the road to Tomaten, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because what I heard from her was that you were not present
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'd desk the message that I took from her conversation with you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like you were longing and pining for something that I didn't ask you for.
[SPEAKER_04]: And when you went to get it, the cascade, these things happened to you.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that, pining, I can understand you wanting to better their situation.
[SPEAKER_04]: right and he felt this is the way that he had to do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But her and her eyes, she didn't ask for him to better their situation in the way that he did.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what I took away from this.
[SPEAKER_04]: What Alicia said is more to do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You got to drag me.
[SPEAKER_04]: You don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you don't like it, you
[SPEAKER_04]: And you're not down with the small council, or you're not, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you don't have some sort of power, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: Over you, dragons or station, whatever it may be, but even women with stations are not excluded, not necessarily in this world.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what are we really doing?
[SPEAKER_04]: What's the message here?
[SPEAKER_03]: And then using it to bind up a male character, manpain, oh, right, yeah, and it's a it's a cheap route to crazy because it's not doing anything right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I think without that is a more compelling story and regardless, but if you just left it alone and just said she just cat just said to you
[SPEAKER_03]: your chasing your dreams, you weren't there when I needed you to period be there period and we didn't need to talk about what was on the road.
[SPEAKER_03]: What happens?
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't add anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: The cheapens the story.
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now the one thing I will say about getting the whole family out, I was thinking about this today, they did give
[SPEAKER_03]: Hugh, a little green chip when he came in the gates.
[SPEAKER_03]: The guards were there checking the wagons.
[SPEAKER_03]: Man, people would be coming and going from double to all the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was like, could they really get out?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they probably could, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it doesn't feel like there's that much.
[SPEAKER_03]: They've got some security going on, but is it really that tight?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, whether they, she could get the whole family out and get everybody on the dragon, whatnot, that might be a little bit dicey, a little bit tricky, but I take the point.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yell at him later, right, right get up out of there and then yell at him later.
[SPEAKER_03]: So now we have an email from Jacob G. Oh, I think you know, it needs he does is show breaking up by subject areas sometimes if that you Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's tough.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's an amazing thing that I would not have thought to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like the just-just-o position of Hughes' disastrous and fool-hardy visit home with Damon's gold cloaks resigning their books.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hughes' story shows what happens when you turn your back on your family for Queen and Glory, while the gold cloaks are not willing to make that sacrifice.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a good calm.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was a good contrast.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't see that before.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it goes also a little bit hand in hand with what Coralis has always been saying she just keeps, you know, you keep giving her to keep giving her to keep taking and taking and there's different ramifications for the choices that you make.
[SPEAKER_03]: in light of those demands.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me ask you this question.
[SPEAKER_04]: If the faceless assassins were assassinating, but the gold cloaks were being paid, would they have left?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a good question.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I don't think they would have.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think they would.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think
[SPEAKER_03]: I think they would have stayed as long.
[SPEAKER_03]: And maybe ask for some more pay or whatever, like it depends on how generous and things were, but if it was flowing, if like their normal pay was flowing, and then maybe David could come in with the big browsing speech and the promises as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: When we get through this, there will be bonuses and make sure that y'all get looked after.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the families of those who've been assassinated in fall and will take care of them, and Boba will set up a Windows fund, et cetera, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you could have, so I'm just kind of working through the logic is what I'm doing right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think, yeah, I think you're right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think they would have as long as their pay was at least the minimum pay that they were getting prior to all of this going down.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the families will be in taking care of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, obviously.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were stayed.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it goes back to what I was talking about in the last episode about co-proofing yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then maybe, yeah, and then you've got to offer them something a little bit more, because the stakes have changed a little bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: You had to say, OK, at the end of this, we're going to make sure that you're going to get some extra.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's got to be concrete and kind of worth it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because you're going to keep them proactive, not just passive or reactive.
[SPEAKER_04]: agree.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now we have a message about Alice.
[SPEAKER_04]: Love and hate.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is from Alyssa of the Brown Ajra.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of real time fans up over here.
[SPEAKER_04]: So to me, Alice Rivers is the hero of the story with her revolving list of Targaryen men to terrorize.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm rooting for her.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if I'm rooting for her after that speech that she gave to Amy, she's seeing, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I don't know if you're rooting for her before this speech.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now that she's, now that she's forsaken me for amends, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: My love is turned, I think.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm frog in the pond, frozen over.
[SPEAKER_04]: she wants to rule.
[SPEAKER_04]: She wants to power it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, is it the same?
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it the same as she wants a dynasty as well?
[SPEAKER_03]: She has had some dragon eggs, have some Targaryen children.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think Nate's message here goes into this a little bit further too.
[SPEAKER_04]: As a non-book reader, Alice is the most tiring part of the show.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just don't see what her purpose is narratively.
[SPEAKER_04]: I trust that eventually there will be a payoff since all the book readers seem
[SPEAKER_04]: But Damon's haunted house escalates in season 2, where tedious and annoying, and I'm frustrated that we get the reprise with Damon like this season.
[SPEAKER_04]: What is her magic?
[SPEAKER_04]: We've seen a lot of things that look which you haven't shown a lot that could be mysterious and magical, but we have yet to see her do anything that is unambiguously magic.
[SPEAKER_04]: Does she have magic powers or is she a such or conjure?
[SPEAKER_04]: Looking to use her tricks to get a dragon or two?
[SPEAKER_04]: listening to multiple podcasts and everyone seems to be, and everyone seems to enjoy theorizing about how X event could have been Alice's doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: But so far, I've seen her do some healing and throw a rock.
[SPEAKER_04]: care about.
[SPEAKER_04]: Even the stuff in season two with Damon, hard to say for sure, any of that is straight up Alice's doing as opposed to having all witness or coincidence.
[SPEAKER_04]: I need to see her turn Damon until a newt of something before I give her her witch cred.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's not wrong about the evidence of her her abilities.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've not
[SPEAKER_03]: they're intimating that she's aware that people are having dreams and that there's some weird stuff going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: We hear some goats bleeding and, you know, yeah, she makes some potions and whatnot.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I don't think we do we actually have that kind of abracadabra poof, you know, your, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: We had some magical trees.
[SPEAKER_04]: some little people, but he'll be catching spells and fighting all, we got a whole ice skin racing the dead, we got that magic, come on bro, come on man, so what does she tapped into?
[SPEAKER_03]: What does she have access to?
[SPEAKER_03]: She actually got three odd raisins, dreamers, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm a full extent of how much she's plugged into.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I see them.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I, you know, I mean, Alice is my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my,
[SPEAKER_03]: show construction stuff than it was necessary.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like they were trying to stretch out certain story lines so they could hit the right marks for how the season's gonna end, how the next season's gonna pick up and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it feels like I was feeling the the writer's hand and the in the gears of the plot more around what went on with them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not that he didn't like what went on with them and although the weird stuff that was going on, but it just it felt
[SPEAKER_03]: I can start to see the themes where the writers were, you know, gluing scenes together, a little bit, felt a little stretched.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't have those problems with Alice's story.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm here for where it leads.
[SPEAKER_04]: I do want to see more magicyship, you know, just, I'm just saying that every show I watch, I want magic.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a meeting, but yeah, I think they should give some explanation or show in what way she is or which, what does that mean for her and what does that mean for her and what does that mean for the story.
[SPEAKER_03]: right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm ready for them to move it along a little bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we'll see what happens.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've got two episodes left.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we'll see where we go in here.
[SPEAKER_03]: uh... there's a lot of chatter about uh... the embroidery from uh... the episode with that halina was stitching and so uh... looking around and looking at a screenshot there we have uh... make it curled fetal position now figure lying in a pool of blood uterus
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, everybody sort of interpreting that a little bit differently, but it's all sort of one in the same, I think.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's also a visible sapphire eye, which identifies him as a event, the figure as a event.
[SPEAKER_04]: A dark ruin castle silhouette in the background.
[SPEAKER_04]: Code for hair and haul.
[SPEAKER_04]: A woman standing over looming above him, holding either a staff or a sickle.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's interesting because I don't know what it's called, but she has that circle bit of where she's actively working that creates tension in the fabric so she can actually do the work in the particular area around.
[SPEAKER_03]: the figure, the head of that figure.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's a little bit hard to read that whole figure, but yeah, certainly somebody's sort of looming over him and there seems to be some sort of, yeah, some sort of stick device, shepherds crocker, or something like that, which may have some other symbolism in further Western Rosy and lore with the old gods and the wear trees and those things.
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw some stuff, but I don't know enough to be able to speak authoritatively on it.
[SPEAKER_04]: and last but not least, a clutch of dragon eggs in the corner.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're actually off to the side a little bit more and up down in the corner is actually some weird red and blue leaves, fruits, like things I don't know, it was kind of mushroom me, it was a weird design, I don't know if that was.
[SPEAKER_03]: indicative of anything, but there's definitely some dragon eggs over on the right hand side of the embroidery.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a couple of pictures in the the discord showing that so if anybody's interested to go grab a screenshot and take a look.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think it's pretty straightforward.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't feel like they're building up too much and it's just what Allison uses to be able to go to renier and say with confidence that he's there.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's this is Helena's dreaming dreamer stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we have a message from Alicia about hatching eggs.
[SPEAKER_04]: We saw the narrative eggs go to pentals with rainharrers, young children at the end of last season.
[SPEAKER_04]: Different from the books when they, this is not a spoiler, just different.
[SPEAKER_04]: When they were stolen by the besty of the previous deceased Raina Togarian that Alice mentioned this episode, because those were also dream fire,
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, so I think that this doesn't have eggs in the books this is the right right this is a book creation this is a show creation yeah sorry sorry sorry my that a show creation the I think in the When that one episode came out with renewer sending her kids off
[SPEAKER_03]: We see the eggs in the box, whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I think there was some conversation online and showrunners writer, I don't know, somebody was saying that, yeah, it could confirm like the people from the show confirmed, yeah, those are the eggs that show up in Game of Thrones.
[SPEAKER_03]: So these are not, Alice's eggs are not to those eggs, separate eggs.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we've got to remember it's back on that that other previous one.
[SPEAKER_03]: was very fertile and laid eggs all over the place, just like Alicia said.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it makes sense because that it does fit sort of with little and more in canon.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so now they're giving the Alice in Eman story line a little bit of an extra something.
[SPEAKER_03]: There you know, it feels like a device that she's using.
[SPEAKER_03]: Did you talk about this last year?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we did, we spoke about this.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I really liked that she had these eggs as a way to seal the deal.
[SPEAKER_03]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_04]: manipulate.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just got another right things.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, so let's get to the military corner.
[SPEAKER_03]: You want to take a break before we do that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Ah, yeah, we can do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll quick and then come back.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll get into some military corner shop talk.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're back with the military corner, Jean, what do you want me to do first?
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you want me to do the situation report?
[SPEAKER_03]: Or do you want me to get into some more rules of warfare and history of weapons stuff?
[SPEAKER_04]: I like weapons, so let's do rules of warfare and weapons.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so let me find my place in the outline.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's been a lot of chatter online about the weapon that a call was using in people calling it different things, me, some morning star.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's actually a flail, it's a type of flail.
[SPEAKER_03]: And just, and we talked about this in the last episode and I'll just clarify a little bit more.
[SPEAKER_03]: both a mace in a morning star are basically a stick with something heavy on the end.
[SPEAKER_03]: A mace is like got flanges on it, like a bunch of vertical pieces and it's again used for blunt force trauma and to try to break armor and bash things.
[SPEAKER_03]: A morning star is similar but it has a it's a spike ball at the end right is made to pierce and it's made to pierce through the plate armor and to pierce the person inside as opposed to just bashing them with the mace.
[SPEAKER_03]: a flail is another thing entirely, and then I went down a little bit of a rabbit hole today and got a little bit confused because it seems like there is some conversation within the academic world about
[SPEAKER_03]: flails.
[SPEAKER_03]: There is definitely a peasant agricultural weapon that was maybe the original source idea for what we saw coal using in the battle the other day.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's longer, it's got two hand, it's like a two handed thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: with a strap of leather or maybe a chain with a swing goal.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's called the swing goal, yes indeed.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you use it to beat the wheat and you try to separate the wheat from the chaff.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was a big sort of whacking instrument.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so when people were, you know, the no quote unquote nobility were needing to arm the peasantry to fight off Barry's invaders or go invade somebody else's land, they were like, oh, hey, these guys,
[SPEAKER_03]: already know how to use this thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's pretty simple.
[SPEAKER_03]: We can add some extra metal on the end of it or some, you know, spiky bits on the end of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's a pretty effective ranged weapon, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you can reach out with this thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can beat on horses or wagons as they're going by or, you know, beat the other guys at a little bit of a distance.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it got adopted
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe that coal using may be a sort of 19th century reinvention of what some people thought was being used.
[SPEAKER_03]: There are some actual maces of that design, but then there's a lot of recreations and it got like, for just doing some internet reading, I got like really confused about like, wait, is this real or not or what's going on?
[SPEAKER_03]: It seems like the smaller ones might have been kind of a side arm, like a really short one with a short little ball in chain.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cole was using is, it's a really, really difficult weapon to wield, it's very easy to injure yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so yeah, they were showing us, they were showing off Cole's sort of brute force strength and what a good, you know, fighter he actually is.
[SPEAKER_03]: But in real world scenarios, that weapon is just so unwieldy and so awkward to try to recover from.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you miss, it's very easy to hit yourself that it seems like there's some scholarship that says, no, that's actually kind of a romanticized version of other weapons that may have existed.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we like to see it, it looks cool, you know, but it's not really an actual practical and it does look cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: It does look cool and he did wield it pretty well.
[SPEAKER_04]: So again, I'm not a, what's that?
[SPEAKER_04]: I said just remember to the gut to the face.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then let's talk about that a little bit sort of rules of warfare.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure Nate is ears are preking up as I talk about this and he may have some more to say.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I welcome your comments.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nate, if I get any of this wrong, I started to talk about this last episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's the French word, Rousse de Guerre, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, a trick of war versus profidity, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Something treacherous that is done.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, why do we have rules of warfare?
[SPEAKER_03]: That is a whole other question that maybe Nate is much better prepared to answer than I am.
[SPEAKER_03]: But rules of warfare, even though you're like, wow, these guys, they're out.
[SPEAKER_03]: People are tearing each other apart.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really violent and terrible.
[SPEAKER_03]: like it's kind of crazy that you would have rules.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and then you think, well, protecting non-combatants, protecting people who are wounded, preventing retribution.
[SPEAKER_03]: If I do this to you, you're gonna do it 10 times worse to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then so you get these escalating circles of violence.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so to try to keep that down and keep the combat directed at the combatants
[SPEAKER_03]: and contained as much as possible, there are various rules of war in, I think, largely a Western context, because I'm not enough of an internet reader to be able to discern much of this, at least in the context that we're looking at, you have two sides of things.
[SPEAKER_03]: You have the what's
[SPEAKER_03]: Rousse is a deception that doesn't betray the enemy's trust in a legal protection.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you trick an enemy into thinking that you're not who you really are, that's fine as long as you're not doing it under, say, a white flag or like, oh, we're really wounded, but then no, we jump up in attack you.
[SPEAKER_03]: So some examples, camouflage, decoys, dummy equipment,
[SPEAKER_03]: fake retreats or attacks, fake radio traffic, ambushes, a fainting death to survive, not to attack or kill, and wearing enemy uniforms to infiltrate or conduct reconnaissance, as long as you don't fight in them.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's not allowed, profidity.
[SPEAKER_03]: And these are sort of modern rules of warfare as shaped and handed down.
[SPEAKER_03]: What's not allowed is deception that specifically invites the enemy to believe that you're entitled to protection under the laws of war, and then you betray that trust to kill injure or capture them.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is in on the hate conventions, this is actually a war crime in a modern sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you fake a surrender, death or incapacitation, and then attack once the enemy lowers their guard, that's not cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you fake being a civilian or a non-compatent to attack and then approach or to approach and then attack, that's not okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: protecting, uh, uh, uh, a faking protected status.
[SPEAKER_03]: So under a flag of truth or, you know, red cross or red crescent or, you know, United Nations force, you know, like, hey, we're neutrals.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're coming into fix something up.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you attack not cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then fighting in the enemy's uniform, um,
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, so when you actually attack while wearing the same uniform, uh, without any other sort of indication that you're not who you say you are, then that is, um, uh, profidity.
[SPEAKER_03]: So again, arouse misleads the enemy about your capabilities and intentions and profidity exploits the enemy's good faith belief in a legal protection in order for you to be able to violate it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_04]: It makes sense.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just want to add one thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: No crimes were committed when killing Christian cold.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he was an open combatant, he was finding standing out there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, that said, faking those soldiers, it's a fine line right here, those soldiers were in their own uniforms, and they were faking dead until the guys came up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then they all jumped up and said, ah, attack.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, in ship to ship combat, you can fly somebody else's flag, but until you strike those colors and raise your own, you can't fire your guns until your flag is raised.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you've got to give the enemy a chance to.
[SPEAKER_03]: know that you were the enemy for them to defend themselves.
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, this is all designed to stop escalating warcraft like more and more egregious like, oh, you hit me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to hit you back twice.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you hit me twice.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I'm going to hit you five times.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to hit you ten times and then that escalation.
[SPEAKER_03]: Rules of war design to keep that in check and not spiraling out of control.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, it sounds a little all crazy when you think about it, but that's that's the way human beings have been doing it for a little while now So I guess not all this fan war No, not always I lose to care
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, should we do a little situation report?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, let's do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: At the end of episode six, the Blacks Hold Kings Landing as the Wars Fortified Center while the Greens hold Tumbleton as their mean field base.
[SPEAKER_03]: Between them, the key operational fact is time.
[SPEAKER_03]: The Riverlands star coast that's backing Reneira is still more than two weeks away from Tumbleton, which is why things still remained unsettled.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then we have a secondary theater around Driftmark in the gullet, but it appears to be stabilized because Corlis for Larian seems to have been able to contain the immediate triarchy raider threat and then he was preparing to redeploy to King's Landing when he was taken by Rockston.
[SPEAKER_03]: So for the assessment of the black forces at King's Landing, Reneera has the capital, its defenses, what's left of the gold cloaks, and then some Valarian soldiers about 60 men in a detachment, probably centered around the red keep.
[SPEAKER_03]: Valerian reinforcements, so Coralists authorized Allen to draw additional men from Driftmark to bolster Kings Landing.
[SPEAKER_03]: It seems like Coralists is going to have those forces do urban security rather than necessarily be a maneuver force out in the field.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sounds like they may be directing them to Kings Landing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, like we said before, the Riverlands Stark host, we don't know how big it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: They haven't given us numbers, but it's two weeks away from Tumbleton.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that's one of the reasons why we're nearer use some covert action rather than the other any immediate battle strategies.
[SPEAKER_03]: the Black Dragons, Vermithor with Hugh and Silverwing with Oof are on Tumbleton Overwatch.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, well, how effective that is, that's that's to be debatable.
[SPEAKER_03]: Seasmoke and Adam and Moondance are in Bala are engaged in patrols trying to find they are.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so overall, and then we have, oh, what's a renewer's dragon cult?
[SPEAKER_03]: So we still have a renewer and her dragon in King's Landing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the Blacks retain sort of a broader, usable dragon advantage, but they've not turned that into any sort of decisive control or air superiority that can settle the campaign immediately.
[SPEAKER_03]: With the green forces, we have Tumbleton, Orman High Tower, commanding the largest field army concentration in Tumbleton.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cole's force is destroyed.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's all done.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so there's no hairy and delay force west of Talmulton to attack the Riverlands stark army coming in.
[SPEAKER_03]: And even with the dragons attached to watching Tumbleton, movement out of Tumbleton doesn't seem to be sealed.
[SPEAKER_03]: So people are coming and going, Wayne is able to come in, rocks and is able to leave.
[SPEAKER_03]: Overwatch is not really doing much, maybe it's keeping the host the mean force pin down, but it's not stopping or man being able to exert his control over the area in different ways.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we've got for Gregg, Green Dragon Disposition, we get to Serian, not fully grown, still inside of Templeton, Vega are absent from main operational picture and not under active battlefield control.
[SPEAKER_03]: Helena and Dreamfire, they're locked down in King's Landing, and I don't know how much Helena is going to be riding Dreamfire anyway.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sunfire, right, still a big question mark there.
[SPEAKER_03]: So Green Dragon Power is pretty fragmented and limited.
[SPEAKER_03]: And to Saryon can support Tumbleton, but in a very localized and minimal way.
[SPEAKER_03]: The big question, as we mentioned before, is Health Baratheon.
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't know anything about them.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's an uncommitted force.
[SPEAKER_03]: We see a messenger and a couple of support troops saying that he's in the red mountains, fighting against the dornish king or the vulture king or dornish raiders.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, until we get confirmation, that is a gin-normous question mark, and whoever he sides with is going to change the whole shift of things.
[SPEAKER_03]: So,
[SPEAKER_03]: Our overall assessment is neither side at the end of episode six, neither side can yet force a decision.
[SPEAKER_03]: The blacks have air and a secure center, but their main field army is still too far from
[SPEAKER_03]: but the loss of coal force means that they've got less depth and less warning time and that means they have fewer opportunities to shape the way that the blacks army can, you know, come up on the field.
[SPEAKER_03]: They could actually affect that, but they can't do that anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: So really the next big decisive shifts that we should be looking for are the arrival of the Riverlands Star Coast at Tumbleton, like that's going to be a big precipitating change once they get there.
[SPEAKER_03]: If the greens can restore dragon control beyond to Saryon, so if they can get vague our back in action, then that is a really big strategic advantage.
[SPEAKER_03]: If the Valerian manpower in King's Landing.
[SPEAKER_03]: could strengthen their center, even if they use them for urban defense, that's still going to stabilize things and give them a bigger advantage.
[SPEAKER_03]: So Windows min show up, that's going to be able to change some things.
[SPEAKER_03]: But again, just going back to the Brathion thing, once until we know which side he's going
[SPEAKER_03]: Strategic set prep from Junior Lieutenant David Lorhout.
[SPEAKER_04]: Was that clear?
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_04]: That was clear.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: To set the table of where everyone is at.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm still trying to work out the format.
[SPEAKER_03]: How much information is too much to little that kind of stuff?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I know needs listening and he's like you be quietly out there evaluating my point.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm very nervous.
[SPEAKER_03]: Pinnon, Pat, buddy, Pinnon, that's it.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's that's it for me for military corner, but I think we still have a couple of comments.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we do looks.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is from jam packed me on on our discord.
[SPEAKER_04]: People sure seem to come and go from top of tith while it's under siege.
[SPEAKER_04]: Drang is might let some folks come and go if they are commoners, but large groups of men exiting or retrieving battlements should not be possible.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't think it's their under siege.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, the needs next point, I think, helps to clarify this a little bit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so Renara doesn't have the meant to pull security or do pick it lines.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is no one to do over in patrols.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's literally what the dragons are for.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the dragonwriters charge with the task are a lazy impissed that they can't get drunk or be fucking off into town.
[SPEAKER_04]: health and you are just told to watch Tumbledon, not to actually do anything.
[SPEAKER_04]: They aren't watching what they should be, neither have any idea or don't care what they should be doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I wonder if this is less the fault of Rhinara, Mesaria, Damen, Hugh, enough, and more the fault of the writers just not giving a shit about the realities of what this should look like.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's you and all, and that's where I fall on this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I kind of, I do wonder about the question of what the right, how much fidelity are the writers bringing to this situation.
[SPEAKER_03]: To me, in my mind, you'd at least want one or two other guys there to watch the back of the Dragon Rider.
[SPEAKER_03]: The other thing is you want a messenger.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, hey, there's a large force leaving, you know, set, you know, ride back to King's landing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to get in the air, but we need to let the Queen know what's going down.
[SPEAKER_03]: Another thing that Scouts are supposed to do, and anybody on an observation, is report enemy movements, you know, for, you know, between the hours of 12 and 1, you know, there were four oxen carts that entered the village, you know, full of hay or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: You've got to record all that kind of stuff to keep track of at everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, do we want to watch that on a television show?
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: But they're not giving us, you know, there's a very similar to the thing that's missing here in terms of what they're assigned to do, versus what we're expecting them to do in a television sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I don't know, maybe we're just too close to the topic and should zoom back out a little bit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but I think what they're showing us
[SPEAKER_04]: They don't care.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: They don't care about Renoir's situation, that's not what they hear for it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he's message next actually shed some light on this as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's a perfect segue.
[SPEAKER_04]: So let's do that.
[SPEAKER_04]: The way we're in our own name and treat the new dragon riders doesn't inspire them to do to any kind of loyalty.
[SPEAKER_04]: They aren't given any clear directives of what they should do outside Tomatil in case of troop movements or any larger group of people movements.
[SPEAKER_04]: So they are just parked there, twiddling their thumbs.
[SPEAKER_04]: If it is a siege, anyone leaving should get burned and that should be clearly stated and understood.
[SPEAKER_04]: As it is, Orman does whatever he likes.
[SPEAKER_04]: G-wain didn't come back from the riverlands on his own.
[SPEAKER_04]: Presumably he came with a group of fellow soldiers.
[SPEAKER_04]: That also was in contact or dealt with in any way.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I agree with everything that folks are saying, but I just think it is the character flaws of you and of just not giving us shit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what they're trying to tell us.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not not anything else, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because everything on screen should be telling us something about somebody or the situation that's going on and what they're showing us is that,
[SPEAKER_03]: He and Ulf have their minds elsewhere.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Ulf wants to party and he wants his wife.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the only reason they got into this business.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Adam wants to fly off with Baylor to never never land.
[SPEAKER_04]: But we still don't know about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Really?
[SPEAKER_03]: He did say he made it like, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh.
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't really know, but that's what he made that sort of joking, not joking comment.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hmm, you're not, you're not convinced.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not convinced.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, Adam and they let go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, all right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I could be wrong, but I'm not convinced.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, Josh Lou does have a point which I don't disagree with, which is Josh says, I feel massage.
[SPEAKER_03]: I should have a better intelligence network in King's land and giving all the years he was developing it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not sure right, right, Reneera has been asking, that wasn't shown asking Missara about the insurgency.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I think there's a, that's a big blind point as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: But again, they're using that to drive Damon's character story and less, and sorry, yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: So what are the writers doing verse and what are they trying to, what story are they trying to tell verses?
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, this is an actually an operational, you know, functioning intelligence agency, military capabilities, you know, field armies, that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of stuff that we just don't want to see.
[SPEAKER_03]: day-to-day business operations.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if they tell it, if they keep telling us that to TALO is running low, we got to make something of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to go wild if you pick that on there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: TALO.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, but then we start jumping at shadows, though, too, when things are there, there was it was during what foundation season, too, where like, there's these two characters that both have scars.
[SPEAKER_03]: They must be related and that must be a secret plot between them and the show runner David Goyer was like, yeah, it was crazy, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was just a coincidence thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, we got to be careful.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, now we have another message from Abby.
[SPEAKER_04]: Are they trying to set up a new sibling rivalry between Adam and Alan over Bala as a reason for betrayal?
[SPEAKER_04]: It looks flimsy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_04]: I, I, I, I, I, that's why I don't think that's what they're doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I, at least I hope that's not what they're doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it does feel a little, it's a, a love triangle.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a little contrived.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's a little bit too much.
[SPEAKER_03]: So.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was glad to finally see those characters have some more dialogue and some more engagement a couple of episodes ago, but now it's like, oh, now it just feels a little bit like, what are we doing here?
[SPEAKER_03]: Not sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we move on.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_04]: Does Alison have the money?
[SPEAKER_04]: who writes an email.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hello, one in all.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have not read Fire and Blood, and two not for book spoiler chatter at the end of the podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: But here's my thinking, on the missing gold, has Alison sent all the money away after doing her throne deal with Rinaura thinking she was going to walk away easily.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm nearly sure she mentioned Helena was her last chance for ruling the king.
[SPEAKER_04]: A nicely perished for any future suitors.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'd recommend steel cap boots for you, but I think it's kick kick.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, my tail is still towed, so it's all good.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think as it has the, I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to go with this one now.
[SPEAKER_03]: like that would be that would be some next level stuff for her and they're not showing me that she's operating at that level.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that I have on-screen evidence for that personally.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if they did do that that would be a pretty huge twist.
[SPEAKER_03]: That would be a good sort of.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, what I, what I go for it, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the other question.
[SPEAKER_03]: What I didn't like, you know, she's really, you know, the, don't know, we get, she turns around and we see her twirling her mustache over her shoulder.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, hmm, I don't know if I would go for that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That might not work for me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Look at that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's see, let's see where we land with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, watch and find out, Lotho.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we move on to Renara's first cut.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is also from Ken W.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm nearly sure it was her father viscerous statue that Rinaura looks at.
[SPEAKER_04]: She cuts her finger and then looks up knowing what happened to him after the cuts he got from the Iron Throne.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there was that scene where she gets caught.
[SPEAKER_03]: She looks up and then one of the big columns they've carved something.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think Ken and I think I heard some, I read somewhere else somebody was saying that that might be bizarre as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it might be her father.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which would make sense, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: That she would.
[SPEAKER_03]: So obviously they had that column decorated with his visage.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because he didn't show us that happening, but it is just there.
[SPEAKER_03]: So she's connecting with it, that sort of creates that linkage across time.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll buy that for now.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Alright, we got a little bookbitch in here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Alicia's got some book background.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is it.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you don't want any book spoiler-related material, jump out now, Jean, did I see Supergirl got kicked again?
[SPEAKER_04]: got kicked until tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, come on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Come on now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's, uh, we got it.
[SPEAKER_03]: We got to get it done.
[SPEAKER_03]: Got to get it done.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think they got one more list.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think they're doing a season wrap.
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw that on the calendar as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, silo still chugging along.
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, really great episode from Nevermind the music today on live in Lennie Cravitz.
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you going my way?
[SPEAKER_03]: That was a really fun conversation that Mark and Cole had to go check that out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and we've got lots more coming up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Lanterns is going to be basically stepping in right behind us here, and, uh, so I'm going to cover that for a little bit with you, and then Alicia will pick that up a midseason.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anything else, uh, folks should know about.
[SPEAKER_04]: Spider-Man brand new day.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, hi.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we'll be, we'll be watching this weekend, and you'll get a part from us, Alicia and I next week.
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, you got tickets already?
[SPEAKER_03]: Sunday.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_03]: The whole family is just you and Lily.
[SPEAKER_03]: Me and he.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Better half is not Spider-Man.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think there's some early reviews out because I think
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it feels like a monster right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: The feel like it's going to do extremely well and people are really loving the movie so far.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've not heard any negative things yet.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah, but there's a lot of negative things about Marvel's from today.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, with the news about Wonder Man.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was kind of like why did you release it today on the eve of Spider-Man?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of self-sabotagey.
[SPEAKER_03]: Were they trying to bury it?
[SPEAKER_03]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think they're trying to bury it in the news.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of crappy.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm really sad to see that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_04]: Definitely.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because we were all, like, finally they learned a lesson and they're going to, you know, do something right, but.
[SPEAKER_03]: But no.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, Emmys are not enough apparently.
[SPEAKER_03]: Apparently not.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, anyway, this is not the comment.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: It will be next week, though.
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't worry about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You guys have been talking about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have a lot to say about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure I'm sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So thanks again to our community volunteers to our Discord server boosters and to our lore master subscribers.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you all, one and all for all that you do.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is it, 321, Bookbitching starts now, John, do you want to read Oceans?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm waiting for A-mon and they go as rain of terror across the riverlands to finally begin.
[SPEAKER_04]: Also, because it brings Damon and Nettles together to stop him.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I now think they will stretch that into the next season.
[SPEAKER_03]: Can we pause there really quick?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the nettles reigneth storyline.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is where this is falling together where she bee's gonna come into play.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love she bee.
[SPEAKER_04]: I hate this raven storyline.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, right, right, great.
[SPEAKER_03]: We do what they're doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then they're setting up a path for her to turn to like be triumphant.
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, this, I don't, I don't, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't like the way it's going.
[SPEAKER_04]: which is because Nettles in the book is not what we see Reina in.
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't see Nettles is not what Reina's portrayed as in the book.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, because Reina's portrayal is not great.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, it's not.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's it's borderline sadistic.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not liking it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, did we, it was one thing to be in your cave eating some nuts and fruit, but then to have a crazy white lady slap in you.
[SPEAKER_04]: The fuck is that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, did we need to, did that actually add anything to her motive?
[SPEAKER_04]: That entire scene with her, seeing the two dragons and presumably calling she be to fly after her sister, Yadda Yadda Yadda, none of that neat was needed.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I didn't even need to see her, you know, even berries in the case.
[SPEAKER_04]: I already know she's in the case.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I know what she, you've made it really clear that she has fallen to the lowest of lows.
[SPEAKER_04]: And she has a fucking dragon.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, if you have a fucking dragon,
[SPEAKER_04]: she has she come to drag it back to the the previous part of the conversation she's become she no but but think about it she had come a dragon writer from a wild dragon that which has harder to do than anything
[SPEAKER_04]: And she's fucking in the cave, even comment, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Where she didn't start off this way.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can understand if it was truly the metal story, this is someone who has grabbed and colored, clawed their way to where they're at.
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't get that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is what we're seeing.
[SPEAKER_04]: But this is not that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I then they're going to give this pathway for a sort of a heroic,
[SPEAKER_03]: return and are some way for her to get past her guilt about what happened with Jace.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's do good.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the book, Bitch In Section.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, like, this is what we're doing here.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're doing this.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Alicia continues, will the battle above the gods?
[SPEAKER_04]: I, perhaps be next seasons, mid-season episode now, or will they stall it until the end of next season?
[SPEAKER_04]: In rearrange events, some more, or the penultimate episode with the hour of the wolf crammed into the series finale?
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I think we get the battle above the cause, I.
[SPEAKER_04]: This season's finale.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that would be because we still have Tumbleton coming this season, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think we.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think we get all of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we get an avalanche of seven and eight, okay?
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we end it and then we end it and then we end it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, yes, yes, that's the only way I could see them having enough of a runway to possibly land a play.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is just on the whole streaming content construction thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, when somebody in a couple of years, well, in five years from now or whatever, goes back, oh, I never watched House of the Dragon when it first came out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna go watch it now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now they can watch it end to end right for the full smooth run.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there won't be these two year breaks between seasons for that.
[SPEAKER_03]: It'll just be a continuous flow.
[SPEAKER_03]: that'll make sense right in terms of a business thing hey we have this complete box set property you can go watch it enjoy it at your leisure as you want to watch it but then for the shows that they cancel after two or three seasons and then they don't get to complete their run because oh boohoo the the viewership was low
[SPEAKER_03]: What, what do you do it, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like now you, you're, you're short-changing the, the lifespan of that product.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what did you really do to promote that product?
[SPEAKER_03]: I still have to go hunting sometimes for shows that I want to watch.
[SPEAKER_03]: I kind of have to hunt a little bit to actually get out of the dragon.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not like right there, pushing in front of me.
[SPEAKER_03]: So,
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm glad that they green lit this and that we're going to get the complete story and they're going to bring this all around.
[SPEAKER_03]: But all of these games that they play with these, you got to make some choices.
[SPEAKER_03]: I get it, get to make some creative choices, you got to make some business choices.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: But there's just too much monkey business going on of like how they're going to end things and then restart things and how long that way in between them.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just, it's messy and it just feels like a,
[SPEAKER_03]: You're, it's not self sabotage, but you're not making it easier for yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're not making it easier for us to get, for us to give you our money.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it makes sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: Ranting over here.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, shake men, old man shakes fist at cloud.
[SPEAKER_04]: Literally.
[SPEAKER_04]: Streaming.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Clouds.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, at least, it continues.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not sure how I feel about this new surprise about this new clutch of dreamfire eggs at Heron Hall.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's true she was, is, since she's still alive although we've never seen her, a fertile dragon who laid in an unusual number of eggs.
[SPEAKER_04]: But this particular clutch is an addition to the book.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like I said earlier, I'm cool with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm alright with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think we need this extra motivation for a mountain line with Alice, since he was already set up by his mommy issues and equals us for power.
[SPEAKER_04]: And now this clutch is destined to go nowhere, since there's no way they're going to hatch as they don't even have the budget to all the dragons back currently existing the story, like dreamfire herself.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not to mention that we know, most of the dragons we already have will be dead by the end of the series, but not sheepy.
[SPEAKER_04]: sheepy lives to terminate another day.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, and then finally by layering and that baby crying over that transition from aim on to I miss kissing I missed that Yeah, I've quite a number second watch.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh kiss in the next scene Throne room a king's landing was a nice touch of foreshadowing since we know the pair was soon be making a baby of their own
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which I did, I know I got spoiled on which is fine too.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know where we're generally headed in that direction of them having a, having some babies, but that's a, a lot of time.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know how much time we have for all of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[SPEAKER_04]: in season four.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: To see where things are.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then finally, I'll find a message from I. S. S. I. I wonder if the title faced this men refers to current and possibly future faced this men doing the gold cloak murders.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is what confused me about the title of this episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Nate was
[SPEAKER_03]: on the discord as well, talking about that, you know, agreeing that, you know, the faceless men of war and combat and all these people who lose their lives who are always remain faceless to us.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then we have a canonical named group of things called the things of people called the
[SPEAKER_03]: if we don't actually see them or is this the proto them are like I don't I don't understand the use of the title.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was clumsy to say at least you could just said the unknown soldier I want me on the soldier, but you know what?
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah because faithless men has a specific meaning in this context.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you then don't use it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't understand.
[SPEAKER_04]: You don't explain it further.
[SPEAKER_04]: You don't instruct me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: What the illusion is, too.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this was this was a little sloppy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know if anybody's got any insight on that, but definitely let us know either email us at at hotd at thelowdowns.com or post it in the discord.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hit us up on our Patreon as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: All that is good.
[SPEAKER_03]: John, I think we're done.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we're out here.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the rest of the stuff in the document is the situation report.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got to crunch those down a little bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a bunch of redundancy in there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Still a junior lieutenant.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you'll get it, you'll get it, you'll get it, you'll get it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm getting there.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, um, we, I guess we'll see you on, uh, we got Sunday night and then, uh, we'll aim for recording around on Monday again.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's hope for, I don't look in forward to a little bit more action next couple of years.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think we, we've had a low with now things start to gear up.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is, uh, let's kick it into high gear.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, cool, everybody.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_03]: Peace.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to the lore hounds.
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