[SPEAKER_01]: Guys, welcome back to the pod.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is an incredible episode with how to advance your obedience.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, granularly, how do you actually take your obedience to the next level?
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people struggle with their dog, not listening outside or their dog not knowing sit and their dog not listening when people over.
[SPEAKER_01]: Basically, not listening when it actually matters.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in this episode, I'm going to break down the reason why that happens and also
[SPEAKER_01]: How to granularly go through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're also building a course on this relatively soon as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you guys can be on the lookout for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is an amazing podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you guys are going to love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be super helpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people deal with this daily.
[SPEAKER_01]: I talked to people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, hey, my dog won't listen outside.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, because you don't have advanced obedience.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you're asking your dog to do something outside,
[SPEAKER_01]: in that environment, it's advanced obedience, and unless you've gotten to that level, and your dog has seen that picture and you've worked on these things, you're not going to be able to get your dog to listen in a realistic climate.
[SPEAKER_01]: So enjoy this podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Talk to you in the next one.
[SPEAKER_00]: if my puppy is barking at something and then I lose control of pyra and vice versa, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you said that you did try to train them separately?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that came recommended too, you know, to be sure to, as the puppy was growing, I would walk him separately.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then sometimes I'd walk him together, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of my questions was, should I just at this point never walk them together
[SPEAKER_00]: get this, you know, and like revisit the together in like a month or two or three or something like that, you know, to make sure that the puppy's getting the proper, you know, the positivity, the positive reinforcement, and making sure that he's on the right track.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then because they are much easier separate for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's with pretty much everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, have you have a have a dog that you have two dogs if you train them separately or bring them out separately.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're better and it's less stressful and frustrating and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: So your goal right now is to get them out and to walk them, your goal is to get them out and to walk them together and minimalize the reactivity from the the dayn mix, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, eventually that is my goal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so what do you and I'm a small person?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a small petite, you know, I mean, I want to make sure that I'm in control of my dogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, especially if it's 80 pounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a big dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you would?
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so walk me through walk me through exactly what happens.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's say we start with the problem, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's say you're out with both of the dogs and let's say that there's another dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: What happens and what do you do?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, right now, I'm trying to divert, turn completely, pivot and go the opposite direction.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most of the time, as turn around, go the opposite direction if I can.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just, yeah, just avoid like the potential reactive blowout type of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's like stressful to walk like that all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, what if you so what if you do not have that opportunity if I like if I'm oh, yeah, like if I'm stuck on a trail All I can do is use all of my body power to keep them
[SPEAKER_00]: close to me and try to, yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you, yeah, I understand it's, it's like what you have to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is your, I know that you said you trained them separately?
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you work on?
[SPEAKER_01]: What is their basic obedience like separately?
[SPEAKER_00]: Separately with the puppy, he's
[SPEAKER_00]: He on a walk, he knows he will stay at thresholds, threshold and hold, and then.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the heel, how good is the heel when they're together?
[SPEAKER_00]: For Pira, it's very good unless there's a reaction.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: From the puppy or her usually it starts with the puppy at this point unless it's another dog and then it will be both of them simultaneously.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So to me it just sounds like you have the you have the the obedience isn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: like advanced right so your dog will and this is like with most people right so and if you've followed me for any amount of time you've heard me talk about this a lot where it's like the what you want your dog to do you know you don't have the obedience to do that right so let's say you wanted your dog to heal in a distracted environment and then and then the dogs like well you know I can't do this or I don't know how to do this I'm not equipped with this I'm not prepared for this I'm not trained for this whatever and that's where things
[SPEAKER_01]: That that's where things kind of go crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So have you tried to advance your obedience out with individual like individually with the dogs?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it mixed?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, mostly with the puppy Yes, when I got him, but I should have done it more with pirate before he came.
[SPEAKER_00]: Pira, I did when I was working with a trainer, a little bit, but I need a better picture of what that could look like with her and how she reacts now.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, like I could, I can take her into like home deporal lows and we can work through things there, and even if there's another dog inside, she's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: which is so bizarre so her picture her her her bad pictures outside yeah okay so she reacts she reacts all of her reactivity is outside yeah always yeah crazy okay and then you're you are you using a slip for both of them yes
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and when, okay, so let's just, let's just get back into the, the scenario there and so let's say you're out for a walk and you see another dog and you can't turn around because you're on the trail, how do you handle the situation, what do you tell him what do you do?
[SPEAKER_00]: really.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's something I want to be able to do, um, which isn't, it's not really not working.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing really works.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, usually, yeah, it's like leave it, uh, you know, a firm no, um, that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and are you enforcing with the collar after the leash or anything?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so I'm unclear as to what I should do exactly how I should hang on or with the, with the spring.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like is there a correction with a spring like pulling up or good question so it's just depends on how like tall and big the dog is on you so typically let's just say you're out for a walk and the dog is on your left side and the dog is at like your hip or the your dog's head is at like your hip.
[SPEAKER_01]: I typically will be correcting so I'll have my slip leash pointed towards me so it's kind of on the side of the dogs
[SPEAKER_01]: Next there so it's not it's not like in between the ears and it's not below It's just like kind of towards me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I look at yeah, if I look at my spring loaded stop or in my slip I have the again the dog is on my left at my leg and Then the slip leash is going right at me
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when we're working on leave it, we're popping towards us, typically like the pressure up or even the collar or leash pressure that's behind the head if we pull up the dog is more likely going to want to try to sit and get kind of confused with that opposition reflex.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of like how I set it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay, yes, never knew this, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so you definitely want the slip to be going towards you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that way when you correct, it's like a pulley system.
[SPEAKER_01]: It goes right towards you.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no friction.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no, uh, there's nothing getting in the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just goes right towards you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, because one of my questions was going to be that I do have a
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that worked better.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I had mastered maybe the flip of the wrist, you know, like how that works.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think when I switched to spring, I never got the information I should have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: How that looks like.
[SPEAKER_01]: Understood.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, so you do have a prong and you don't use it or do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have it in a while because I had switched to the spring slip.
[SPEAKER_00]: okay got it but it wasn't even correctly so yeah yeah why did you yeah why did you switch to the the slip from the prong well one of my trainers suggested i do it and this was before i got the puppy and and back then it
[SPEAKER_00]: actually seemed to work pretty well because I wasn't having to do corrections and I felt like we're kind of pulling away from some of the reactivity.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then it kind of flared back up again when the puppy came.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you did use the prong was it helpful?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was it more effective?
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just giving different things to try again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's nothing wrong with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just have to find out what works.
[SPEAKER_01]: What works best for you and your dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I would suggest if you feel, and this is up to you, if you feel like the slip, because there's a couple things to go through here.
[SPEAKER_01]: If the slip is enough,
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if this slip is not enough for you to get your dog's attention or they just don't care about it or whatever, then and that's that is normal, especially with a bigger dog, they can blow that that slip correction off pretty quickly, especially if they feel like they're, you know, in danger, they're fearful of something blah blah blah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, which is, you know, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would switch to maybe just use something else that is more effective if you will.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe just switching back to your prong to see if that helps.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other thing that I think a lot of people make, like one of the biggest mistakes people make is,
[SPEAKER_01]: is the timing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's say you go out with both of the dogs as soon as the as soon as your dog starts to kind of like get to get amped up and get to get teed up on the other dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it's the smell of the other dog, sometimes it's seeing the other dogs, it's hearing the other dogs, etc.
[SPEAKER_01]: What I what I like to do is as soon as I start to see that as I'll nip in the
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I'll just say leave it and I'll correct the dog just to make sure that especially if the behavior is always paired with a bad like a bad reaction.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's say the dog, the ears perk up, the chest comes up, they, you know, they start to get stimulated, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we know that then we know that the dog is getting geared up and then the dog reacts.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can say that the dog is going to tee up and then react because they've done it consistently for you know that what however long right so I already know that that's a thing so then that way I can correct the dog fairly for tee up because I know that we're about to react.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the other thing is, and the important thing is, is you also want to make sure that the the dog is learning, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of people miss this whole concept.
[SPEAKER_01]: If we have to make sure that we reward the dog as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for an example, if I go out with, and I would recommend just going out with one of the dogs,
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can, if you're going to still get the same reaction, go out with one of the dogs, change up to your prong collar, go out and the objective here is to teach the dog what we want them to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So does this dog take a food at all?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a refood motivated when we're out?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she's very treat motivated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, great.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can...
[SPEAKER_01]: okay great you can use that to your advantage so you come out you have your treats your rewards basically you're you're willing and able and going to give the dog a payment once we make a good decision and so we have to kind of balance these things out so you go for a walk
[SPEAKER_01]: The dog starts to build.
[SPEAKER_01]: We say, leave it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We correct the dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: The dog disengages.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we pay the dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of times what I try to do depending on where you're at and what location you're at and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I know it's difficult when you're on the trail or you're in tight spaces as I just pull the dog away from the the trail or the the road as much as I can.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not running home, but I'm just coming off the trail like 10 feet and putting the dog into a sit or maybe even just letting the dog soak.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of times, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: soaking is like essentially letting the dogs be there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just watching because ideally, especially if in a lot of times dogs who are reactive because of an incident that had happened like yours, it's fear base.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the dog basically thinks, okay, I see another dog this thing's going to happen again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to get attacked or barked at or ran up on whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so your job is to basically pull the dog off the main road or the main traveling area of the other dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you just let the dog kind of look and observe.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of times what dog owners do is they do like this whole circus to try to get the dog to pay attention to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they talk and they click and they snap and they whistle and they
[SPEAKER_01]: Do the kissing noises they do everything they can to like get the dogs attention and what I do is I just I just I'll let the dog try to make a good decision I don't really say anything So so you could do so there's a kind of a mix of things there if the dog is already
[SPEAKER_01]: firing off scene red and barking then of course you're going to work on leave it you're going to correct the dog etc but the other thing that you can do especially because this is all stemming from fear as you can just move away from the situation let your dog soak let your dog look at the other dog smell the other dog watch the other dog and if your dog does good you can just very calmly just say good
[SPEAKER_01]: and then pay the dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pay the dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the other thing too that I would start doing because we have to start building confidence in the dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the dog's name that we're talking about?
[SPEAKER_01]: The Pirate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pirate.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have to build confidence with Pirate because right now Pirate got ran up on by an awfully dog so now Pirate is like oh shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: this is going to happen again here comes here's another awfully stock and so now we have to like reverse the psychology here when when you you know it could be called counter conditioning to some degree you see another dog you get paid you see another dog you get paid so right now the dog has the opposite so pyre thinks we see another dog we're going to get ran up on you see another dog we're going to get ran up on
[SPEAKER_01]: And your objective actually should be reverse engineering that to only Pulling away pain the dog and of course again like if you're like, well, no, she's gonna fire off and go crazy The minute she sees the dog well then you you go the other end you correct the dog leave it correction knock it off quit the crap
[SPEAKER_01]: making sure your prong collar is high and tight behind the ears and making sure that it's an effective correction.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the dog has to actually look at you and go, oh shit, what did I do wrong?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you pay the dog for stopping.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then eventually what ends up happening, especially with a fearful dog,
[SPEAKER_01]: Is they basically don't want to bark in the first place?
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't want to react in the first place, they don't even, they're just, they don't know what to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you basically take that off the table, quit the crap, you're disrupting it, you're correcting it, you're pulling the dog away, and then you're paying the dog for making a good decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: And slowly but surely you're able to overcome the dog's reactivity towards other dogs by simply teaching
[SPEAKER_01]: Pyro that when another dog is around everything is okay and not only is everything okay But you're gonna get paid if you just look at the other dog, and that's how you can start reverse engineering all of this Okay And in the car Maybe as I make some progress in the car, could I should I stay leave it as well?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, essentially you want the leave it come in to be sustainable under any circumstance, just like any other behavior.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if we ask a dog to sit down or recall, we want them to do it, regardless of where we're at or what equipment is on.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the only way to do that is with a series of training scenario.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of the problem that you're dealing with right now is if your heel isn't super good,
[SPEAKER_01]: or your leave it isn't super good like a level three, which means you are going out outside, surrounded by a bunch of other dogs and asking your dog to do a certain thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is a level three ask.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that's the first thing is, you know, if somebody asked me like, well, do I just say leave it?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, if the dog knows leave it, if the dog doesn't, you know, if the dog doesn't believe it, it's going to be useless.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be frustrating.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be a waste of time, really.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, how can I get to a level 3?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good question.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, how do advance your obedient step by step is a great question?
[SPEAKER_01]: When you're advanced, and we're actually doing a course on this this week, we're filming this course.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's pretty fresh in my head, but so when you're advancing your obedience, it's it's very simple, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So like think about learning how to write a bike.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in the very beginning stages, you have level one, which is your parents likely putting you in training wheels and a helmet, knee pads, elbow pads, and really just
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, you don't know what you're doing, but we're going to figure this out, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So you learn balance, you learn how to get on a bike off a bike, you learn how to turn, you learn how to not fall, you learn how to catch yourself when you fall.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the preliminary stages of like level one is essentially just learning how to ride, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You're learning how to ride.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and you can copy and paste this for anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Behavior ever, like it doesn't matter what the heck it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the same exact format, same exact principle.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you learn how to ride, which is essentially the basics, the foundation.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you'll learn how to sit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I know what sit is.
[SPEAKER_01]: When sit comes out of my mouth.
[SPEAKER_01]: the dog does it when I say place the dog does it when I say leave it the dog does it but it's very preliminary so if there's distractions around and we're outside we're not going to sit because we're not we haven't practiced that the dog hasn't seen that picture so there's a series of picture changes that you have to start acclimating your dog to because again just like learning how to write a bike
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I learned in my call this act in my neighborhood, now I'm in a park with ducks and people and other bikes and rollerbladers and kites and etc.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, so now it's a different environment.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to build up the fundamentals.
[SPEAKER_01]: So most often times I would say more than 60% of dog owners who asked their dogs to do a behavior, the dog doesn't know the word at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that that sounds crazy, but I have done it over and over and over and over again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I say, I just happen yesterday.
[SPEAKER_01]: The dog owner said, sit and they did a word not sit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to explain to them, I go, I know that this is going to be a little offensive, but your dog doesn't know sit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had to go through the whole process and teaching them why the dog doesn't know sit and proving to them that the dog doesn't know sit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And eventually we got around to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They said, oh, I've been working on this for years and my dog doesn't know it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a huge mistake.
[SPEAKER_01]: People make.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you're teaching this sit again, like at a fundamental level, for an example, you have food in your hand and you start to develop the sit command with the food.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's luring.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's using it as a reward, but you never want the queue for sit to be the actual food You want it to be the word meaning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so again, I would say even like closer to 80% of people to be honest They can't get their dog to sit without placing a piece of food in front of their face and raising it up in the air
[SPEAKER_01]: That is not set, so that makes sense to you, the queue, okay, so the queue is what you need to do to queue your dog to do a behavior.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's supposed to be the word sit, and it is not for most people.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is actually you taking a piece of beef liver out, raising it up in the air in your dog sitting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that has absolutely just about zero utility in life.
[SPEAKER_01]: That means when you go out and you want your dog to sit, they're not going to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to do this whole sequence to get your dog to sit and
[SPEAKER_01]: 99.9 times out of 10, the dog puts their butt in the ground, collects the food and walks off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, zero utility.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is the point of putting our dogs butt in the ground and then immediately getting up?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's pointless.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it makes zero sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to teach the fundamental level.
[SPEAKER_01]: So whenever somebody asks me like yourself, like, how do I advance the obedience?
[SPEAKER_01]: The first thing is just understanding what these behaviors are and what they're supposed to be in real time.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you tell your dog to sit, they sit.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't need food, you don't need treats, you don't need a correction, you don't need clickers, you don't need any bullshit like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You tell your dog to sit, they go, I know that word and I know what to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know at some point I've gotten paid for this and I've also learned that if I don't do it, I've gotten corrected.
[SPEAKER_01]: So at the fundamental level, the dog has to know what the word is that you're asking to do and what you want to advance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most people completely skip that step and that's why they can't advance their obedience because Their dog doesn't actually know the behavior and that's a slap in the face from most people because they're like how do I advance my obedience?
[SPEAKER_01]: I go you got to teach him something first they go on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my dog knows sit and down and recollect on bullshit.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't Trust me.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't they don't actually know most this is the piece that trainers often don't
[SPEAKER_00]: get through to people or we because we don't understand like they just they tell us how the you know what we're supposed to teach at the dog but they're not really actually learning those things like you said yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's like the you know you go to puppy class both each you to lure your dog into a sit But they don't they never say anything else about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like, yeah, I know it's so frustrating because I'm like You're you're I mean you're doing more work because now Somebody like me has to go in and redo everything
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like, I mean anything in life like you have somebody come and work on your house or whatever and they do a shitty job and well two years later You're going to have to have somebody come in and that's going to cost you more money and more time and more headache to go in and fix the whole thing So yeah, so Basically what you're saying is if she's if If I want to advance leave it, I need to always correct if she doesn't leave it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah Simply I mean this is that really all your thing basically
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of that's I haven't said that yet, but yeah, so the for the first step is Fundamentally teaching the dog of the behavior, which means we're not predicating any of our words.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are cues off of Anything externally no food no toys no treats no corrections when we say sit did I go?
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that word and I know what to do She have to teach the dog the behavior first
[SPEAKER_01]: Once the dog knows the behavior without any other circuit, like your hand should be in your pocket, you should look forward and you just say your dog's name and tell him the sit and they should do the behavior.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what, so that's a step one, that's level one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most people can't do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're negative, you're behind schedule, then so it goes level one, two and three.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're not even at level one, they're at like negative four.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they turn around and they say why won't my dog listen in level three, and I go you have no shop It's somebody entering the tortoise France and you go oh how long have you been riding this is great I've never seen you in this race like oh I've never ridden a bike in my life
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you're going to fail epically.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're wasting everyone's time.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're putting yourself in a dangerous situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is the same equivalency to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So after the dog understands fundamentally, that's like level one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Save it, save it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So your dog is on a long line in your backyard.
[SPEAKER_01]: You say come, they come to you, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They just know the behavior.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't need the squeaks and the treats and the run, it's bullshit.
[SPEAKER_01]: so many people don't have fundamentals that drives me crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, your dog doesn't know anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like raising a child and not teaching them anything except that we love you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like they don't know how to say please and thank you and their colors and they don't know how to talk and it's like it's like a caveman really.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a anyway I digress.
[SPEAKER_01]: So so that's the first step is level one.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to really audit to yourself well
[SPEAKER_01]: Will my dog do what I want them to do without any other context?
[SPEAKER_01]: If I just say, piracy, will the dog sit?
[SPEAKER_01]: If the answer is no, you have no business asking you're not just sit outside, zero.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's step one.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of a hard conversation so people have to have them with themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it happens all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think just ignorance is bliss sometimes to people and they're like, yeah, I could do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess you just don't think, you don't realize
[SPEAKER_00]: really no step between the luring and actual doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like a matter of corrections, like, you know, like, once they lure into a sit, because I'm going through this with my puppy, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he still probably only would do it with luring, or, I mean, he doesn't probably know sit without,
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, but I need to move into correcting him if you won't say yes and no.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's an in between there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the lure.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's say, okay, so let's say we have a puppy in the dogs like eager.
[SPEAKER_01]: They smell the food.
[SPEAKER_01]: They see the food.
[SPEAKER_01]: They taste the food.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're quite great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Give me that freaking thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the lure in process is teaching the dog what we want their body to do when we say the word.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for an example, we lure with the dog with the food, we say, Pyrus-Sit, and we lure up the dog traces it with your nose.
[SPEAKER_01]: They put their butt in the ground.
[SPEAKER_01]: We say, yeah, it could sit.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's step one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Teaching the dog had to fold their back legs to put their butt in the ground and we start marking and capturing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good sit.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's timing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to have good timing in order to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: then what you start to do, you maybe you do that for day one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Day two is you remove the food lure.
[SPEAKER_01]: You put the dog on a leash, as always, in the beginning stages, and you bring the dog out, and you say, piracy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they remember, and they can what we call bridge,
[SPEAKER_01]: The lure, to without the lure, and they go, I think, sit is this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like teaching a, you know, five year old one plus one equals two, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, okay, they could do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't need to hold up their hands anymore and go one, but it's one, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They go, I think this is what this is.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they put their butt in the ground.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yay, bang, and they get paid good sit in your marking, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're going from lure to correction, but the important step in between is actually phasing out the food lure.
[SPEAKER_01]: making sure that when you ask a dog to do the behavior without the lure, and without the dangling the treat in front of the dog's face, the dog will do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that will fundamentally tell us whether the dog knows the behavior or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Think about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a hungry...
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably just about repetition much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it should take you no more than three days to do that process.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: some dogs won but yeah so that's that's important because when you get the food lure going like it just drives me crazy how much facade is out there and that's where you know dog trainers are sometimes an inadvertently like scamming people because they're like oh all these dogs know sit and luring down I'm like bullshit
[SPEAKER_01]: Take the food out and ask your dog to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They can't do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just spent $600 and six weeks on bullshed like no, the dog doesn't know these behaviors at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: They only know how to chase the food.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in order for your clients or somebody like you to go out and get their dog to do something, they have to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also too, just side note, we're also predicating our entire training off of motivation, which is teaching the dog to do and chase what interests them and what they're motivated by.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you quilt side, and a dog has a higher prey drive than a food drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they see another dog or a squirrel or a chipmunk or a cat, you're done.
[SPEAKER_01]: Life like you're no lifeboat like you're done, and you're sinking, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, so making sure that we're teaching the behavior actually, the word, and then we're facing out the food lower, so the dog does the behavior.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then what you want to do is the dog knows the behavior, they know it to do, you've proved it, they understand it, you've, you've done it over and over again and they understand it, then what you start to do is you'll start entering new environments and this is where the corrections come in.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then you come outside or in your living room or whatever the heck is more distracting, and you say piracy, she goes, oh, I know what sit is, but I'm not going to do it because I see a bird outside correction.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then the dog knows fundamentally, and this, listen, I've been working with dogs every day, I've been trying to figure out the best way possible, the most efficient way possible, the most sustainable way to train a dog, and this is by far been the best formula.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the dog knows the behavior.
[SPEAKER_01]: They know they may get paid.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they won't because we phased it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now we're going to ask the dog to do said behavior that they know and they basically say nope, I'm distracted.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm disinterested.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we correct the dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now the dog fundamentally knows that there's caught.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they might get food.
[SPEAKER_01]: They might not get food.
[SPEAKER_01]: But even if they're distracted in this side, like I don't want the food payment.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd rather chase the
[SPEAKER_01]: now there's also the other end so you're you're really buttoning up your training here that the dog really understands if they don't do it there is consequences so now you have a bullet proof system if they want the food or they want to please you they'll do it if they don't want to do it because they're distracted they'll still do it because they don't want to get punished so now you have like you have a backup to a backup to a backup
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of the sequence, and then you build out the 3Ds, which is distance distraction and duration.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you basically copy and paste all the things that you're working on and build out the 3Ds.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're going to heal further, you're going to sit longer, and you're going to add in more distractions as you continue, and that's how the, that's how it goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So with leave it in particular, um, one way that I worked on it with Pyro and she was younger was that I put like something enticing in the middle of the room.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was on a leash.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if she went for it, I would say leave it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when she came to me or on the leash, like look towards me or whatever, I rewarded her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um,
[SPEAKER_00]: are there other exercise she will leave it outside like if she wants to eat other dog poop or something weird thing on on the ground and also leave how it's a leader she'll do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's where we are with Leave it.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do I strengthen it from that point?
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so we're teaching the dog that when we say Leave it, if they look at us, we then pay the dog for leaving it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But right now, I think the only thing you're missing is just a correction when they say no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so again, because that's what you're gonna run into, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So leave it is pay attention to me And I'm gonna pay you and then see you have a five dollar bill and They're like, but the rabbit poop or the other dog poop is a fifty dollar bill.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can Go somewhere else mom.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care about this and then that's when you that again That's where the correction comes in as a backup of like nope Interprepareate like pay attention to me type of thing
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that's the only thing you're missing is the balance you're you're you're missing make sure that you thought that that that was strong Yeah, leave it where she understood and I can correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean you're just you're going to get to right now you're predicating an off of a reward system, which 100% on my life will fail you 100% You're going you're going yeah, I mean they both my dogs will choose another dog or a squirrel over my treat
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's where the correction comes in.
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, you have a backup plan.
[SPEAKER_01]: You go, hey, it's kind of like the old saying like we could do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: We could do this easy way the hard way.
[SPEAKER_01]: You choose.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's pretty much what dog training is.
[SPEAKER_01]: They do the right thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yay.
[SPEAKER_01]: They do the wrong thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Accountability.
[SPEAKER_01]: Correction discomfort.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's how you get a dog to sustainably listen to you and create a really healthy relationship because they have, they have predictability, they have clarity.
[SPEAKER_01]: They know if they don't listen, this is going to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: They know if they do listen, this is going to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no, there's no secret here.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no confusion.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no conflict.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's either when you listen, you get, it's just like with parenting or with, and literally anything in life.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say, I don't know how I did so well with this one with my children.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the same thing or anything in life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you work hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: You get paid for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't you don't you you study You do good like it's just it's it's literally the way every single thing on the planet works everything is is done through risk and reward like it's all it is Yeah Okay Good So what what are their questions do you have about this?