[SPEAKER_00]: Survivor Specialist John and McKenna are back with Kyle as always just the three of us this episode and we are here to start our new era bit bitter or better.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know how to feel about some of these jurors in their bitter or bitterness because it feels like a bunch of people within the jurors have their minds set up on who they're voting for and there's not much of a sway that these first jurors have on their respective jurors.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's going to be an interesting
[SPEAKER_00]: Technically make the merge, but don't make the jury just in like yield and days, but now they call it something different.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, yeah, that part of the podcast will be back and you know, let's get into 41.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have everybody's favorite.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's good to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have Tiffany Celi as the the merge boot here and
[SPEAKER_00]: with a few of these, they kind of go out because they were the next option.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because every one immunity, Evie was going to be the main target here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So since Evie was immune, they're like, well, we're going to go for TIF or Zander.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tiffany wound up being the main swing here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how she goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not anything that Tiffany did wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yasah lost the power, wasn't in the numbers.
[SPEAKER_00]: So kind of they're going one by one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're doing so difficult to evaluate here because business kind of our plug of the poor winner at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we are really sure exactly how Tiffany relates to Erica at all, how if at all there is any impact there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And especially because Tiffany kind of finds her on the wrong side of this like alliance that formed from like the remnants of
[SPEAKER_01]: So because of that, it makes it really difficult to evaluate exactly where her position was in this game and how that was impacting her, the way she voted at the end of this tribal cover at the end of this season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: The big, like, dupe was Heather being the vote, but it was also then Monsieur and Monsieur was like, whoa, we're not pushing my name.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, find somebody else and then Heather was like, why is my name all of a sudden out here?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it just cascaded and it's kind of just like a mess of a tribal council really.
[SPEAKER_00]: And,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really unfortunate that this is the way that Tiffany goes because I'm a big Tiffany fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love her.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think she's an amazing character and game player.
[SPEAKER_00]: The way the Yasa three worked with the idle blind side was just a beautiful move.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: I, like, I'm not tied to anybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a solo voter, and it just all derails for them to be able to gain traction, gain numbers, and be able to wheeze all their way in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ultimately, Zander is the one that is able to do that here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't remember much about Tiffany in this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like she doesn't get like a ton of shine here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have four or five bullets.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I remember like a lot of, a lot of zander when like record goes up to zander and whispers in his ear, please, please play your idol, please play your idol.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you have Heather standing up and causing some chaos.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think Tiffany, even though she ends up being the boot and she is the first juror, which is very important placement to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think that she really gets a lot of focus here.
[SPEAKER_02]: and that contributes to not being sure exactly what impact she has.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if we're looking at Tiffany incorrectly here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe this is something we didn't take into consideration completely.
[SPEAKER_01]: We did a little bit in winter support, but maybe this isn't something we're very much taking into consideration with our final threes with three finalists.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is Tiffany less important to Erica's win and more important to zander dot coming second?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm considered that right because I'll cross my mind, especially like we, we know Zander being young was kind of disrespected by everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: No one was really
[SPEAKER_01]: No one was looking to give him both at all, but even if we just look at Tiffany's question at Final Tribal Council, specifically about Zander standing in Yorsa, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if that just means that having Tiffany there as that first-year kind of completely condensanters game beyond,
[SPEAKER_01]: any sense of like repair because you'd be like oh yeah like Xavier was just at our back and call completely the entire time in the pre-emerge.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was nothing he was doing that ever had him in control.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and, and I think with this Yase group, like, they never felt very tight at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, they pull off this great knowledge as power bluff, um, but then afterwards, like you had mentioned, they're like, I'm a free agent.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not tied with them.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not voting with them.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, when you're on the bottom, like, sure, you could try to find any way that you can to get into the majority.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it never felt like this group was tight at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not fighting for each other.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, Xander never considers using his advantages or idols on either one of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think like if Tiffany was if they were super close and Tiffany's on the jury and she's like I was so close with Sandra like he's great He's amazing, but it was they were sort of like apathetic to one another and so I think that what you're saying is a hundred percent right Where Tiffany just sort of being okay with Sandra and not being a champion for him was was pretty damning for his chances
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it just seemed like throughout the pre-merge that it was Zander looked into staying the way he did, rather than people were vying to keep Zander.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, we're talking about the Yasa three of it all, but there is a fourth Yasa who is completely jump-ship and not even aligned with them at all in Lilliana.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, she's like, I want nothing to do with these guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so that is an interesting point because while watching it, I did think Xander played a pretty decent game and enough to get, you know, more votes than he did, um, so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I definitely don't see her benefiting Erica even though she votes for Erica, so that would be, you know, it is a benefit to Erica, but it's definitely about a blowback on Zander.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tiffany's the one who was an alternate who got called on to the cake, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: She has that moment in the premiere where they flash back the call of, hey, you're coming to Fiji, you have like a day.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, oh, right, because this was also COVID.
[SPEAKER_01]: And thanks for a little different back then.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the first 26 to 80s and I wonder as the first juror of a 26 day season, how does Tiffany have you changed the way she approaches at or does she at all?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this,
[SPEAKER_01]: I maybe now we're just getting to the 39 vs. 26 day are you meant a little bit, but is there any difference in the way a juror should be looking at the way people are playing in a shorter game.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if the pre-merge matters more.
[SPEAKER_00]: because that's a very good question because for in my opinion 39 days don't even talk about your pre-march game nobody cares but 26 days it could impact somebody's votes because they were with you or like in 49 with so many of different
[SPEAKER_00]: swaps pre-murge that some of those moves could actually play into your final travel council game.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, you know, since Tiffany was pre-murge with Zander the entire time, could that have impacted a bit more because she's closer to the pre-murge than she is to his final days?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she didn't get to see how he navigated the game and like worked his way into the majority.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not saying that Zander's like some like awesome player.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think he's good and was worth more respect than what the jury was giving him credit for.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you're right, Tiffany was not there for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Her impression of Zander was he's this guy that we're dragging along.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's lucky.
[SPEAKER_02]: We kept him here.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so and that's hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's hard to shake if that's your first impression.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you don't have very much time after that to form a new impression.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Erica had a great final tribal council so with having the great final tribal council, probably decent conversations at camp for the few days that Tiffany was around and the negative impact a little bit of zander that kind of all mounts to why Tiffany votes the way that she does.
[SPEAKER_01]: time with in the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember, but I want to say Tiffany gets saved because of the hourglass.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that she was a part of the losing group.
[SPEAKER_00]: that end up getting that could benefit as well in some of the facts like could now this is very you know metagaming what if you know I don't think this is anything that passed through Erica's mind during this vote because everybody glomed onto Tiffany but could having somebody who was saved by that hourglass twist
[SPEAKER_00]: as the first juror really set Erica up a bit better because they have a really good taste in their mouth because of Erica.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it impacted too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Erica winning this season despite being the person who broke the hourglass kind of goes, it's kind of like the person under what are you and I think we got.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or we had last week where this is the player's clearly blaming production for a bad twist, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're not
[SPEAKER_01]: And Erica, yes, takes the no brainer choice of smashing the hour glass and because of that, you know, is able to per power, so through the game because of like some very strong alliances that she makes, but I don't know if this was someone in that losing group.
[SPEAKER_01]: that would change that because I think in the end, I think Erica is just a person who presents the best in this entire group.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a part of the war.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a part of that question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm specifically thinking of if the jury started one vote early or one boot earlier.
[SPEAKER_01]: It may save me, right, who was screwed by the hour last quest, but actually one of the most
[SPEAKER_01]: Does that change the effect?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it does.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it does.
[SPEAKER_00]: I better, I better, I better toward,
[SPEAKER_00]: that maybe she can get over it in a game sense for Erica, but she's going to be so jaded as the first juror because of the way she went out.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was safe and now she's not going home.
[SPEAKER_02]: And her tribe voted her out like just not in Danny were like big parts of that vote.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I could see her being bitter for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: But does Sydney strike us with her person who would vote for us under the one step?
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I, and I think that's what it comes down to.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think like this title three is kind of this like, is the clear vote for people.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a person who's still I'm up for anyone going into a service.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, I think that's what you wanted me, you know, as that boot.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, Erica wasn't on my side.
[SPEAKER_00]: She smashed the hourglass.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Deshawn voted me out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Zander was a part of voting her out.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, he tried to go down and just gone.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he was part of getting it.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Zander was at least a little bit on her side and not wanting to get her out.
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, I don't think she's voting for a Zander type to win.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I could almost see her being like good game to Sean, you got me out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the Sean didn't vote for her.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Sean spent the extra vote on Abby.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't but for new and like it was definitely part of the plan and this is the backup plan just in case so yeah, I don't really think.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Sydney changes the results of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it might change the tone of the jury because Sydney is very much a firecracker.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we luckily get to see that on other forms of reality TV because we got to get more of a character because we are really depraved of Sydney in the season because they just decided not to edit an entire tribe in the pre-emerge.
[SPEAKER_01]: But.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't think that twist is enough to change the way people vote in the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think, like you said, that maybe the pre-emerge is a little more impactful to things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And from what people say, like, there is that episode in the pre-emerge, where it may look like they're going to throw the challenge to get rid of Erica, but that didn't actually happen at all in the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's because Erica was just running that entire tribe.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think if anything, Sydney probably respects that more.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, moving on to season 42, our merge boot is Chanel, or our first-year is Chanel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Chanel votes out Maryanne.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is another
[SPEAKER_00]: the person who we actually want out one immunity.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Chanel is the vote.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's not really much to happen to Chanel here.
[SPEAKER_00]: She just goes out once again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but she does decide to play it cool, let other targets emerge and not try and scramble.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is, I think a valid take on trying to play, you know, play this out, but it's just not great because she was on the wrong side of the last vote, um, and she's scared kind of for her feature game.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think Chanel maybe has the biggest impact of this group here on the vote because more so against somebody like her and Mike really did not get along in the game.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mike was the primary reason for getting her out.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was after her for a while.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of new that like she votes for Mike at one point in this in this season.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that this
[SPEAKER_02]: uh, more so than like a pro marry and vibe, um, I think like once Janelle risked her vote and lost it in the episode 3 journey, like her game was kind of, it's kind of over at that point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, because since she was in a bad position, um, had to like force a lot of things like I said she votes for, for, for Mike at that one tribal and like makes moves that they kind of force her into making mistakes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then now here she is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, she's sketchy really can't do anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it kind of catches up to her here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I forgot this Chanel wasn't a someone one immunity.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was on just clearly the bottom with with Romeo and Mary and those those three were kind of not in that group and we get a confessional from Mike talking about how she isn't loyal to himself or high so she has to go so she is like
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, a walking target with like Romeo being the decoy boat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she knows really hard to evaluate because like Kyle said, she's kind of just in this bad spot.
[SPEAKER_01]: The entire time in the first where she loses her vote.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty pivotal in the terrible tribal council.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that child council that Jenny goes home and then she immediately goes into another tie tribal council where she's kind of gets lucky here that her vote for Mike doesn't get her out then.
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead, and everyone would decide so about Daniel instead, because you could have just put her vote on Daniel and that never would have happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the big thing is if we look at her final tribal council question, in regards to what's your personal story for playing this game, what's your evolution and what you're learning about yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's essentially like the Mary Ann vibe for the entire thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So even if she's in a part Romeo too, it's just kind of like, yeah, it's clearly, it's clearly a good anti-might thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is pro Romeo.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's propping up Romeo throughout this entire thing because her and Romeo were on the bottom together.
[SPEAKER_01]: However, this is not the question that really defines Mary Ann in this final tribal council.
[SPEAKER_01]: Umar idol and Idol and like not playing or idol and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the one that I think people look to a Mary Ann and like what really defines her game Is this journey she had?
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially when you go back to the season and you see Mary has kind of comes off as a little annoying for some people at the beginning of the game and then
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, is at the bottom of the merge, but he's able to cement herself in the power structure of a season and really take control towards the end of it, and I think it's that close that really defines Marion and it is Chanel's question that helps properly up with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Lydia is the Marjoratory.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like she wasn't given much within the, the season because she is the murder Tory boot.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they don't want you to love someone who gets screwed by the abort.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I, I really like Lydia too, because I found, you know, a lot of myself in her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so.
[SPEAKER_00]: it would have been interesting to have Lydia as this kind of just like chill cool calm presence as the first juror and she's just like, hey, what's up?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's viby over here and but I still don't see
[SPEAKER_00]: a world where she sweys the jury.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, um, I think she maybe gets Romeo some more votes, but I think she might lean as a little bit more toward Romeo side and actually throw him a vote.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I think if anything Lydia maybe gives a vote to Romeo, maybe persuasive or
[SPEAKER_01]: persuades someone like Chanel to vote for Romeo.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've got Romeo ends up coming second overnight.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't see it drastically chasing the outcome of this vote at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think what we're really, this is really interesting because these are two people come to say in terms of starting drive too.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a very chaotic starving tribe.
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of their tribe mates is at final tribal council.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything else on Chanel.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that was really short on Chanel, but I just feel like she, it her vote out episode, it, she didn't have much to say within it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think she tried to play the best game that she could in that episode, but she was just on the back foot, the entire time and just couldn't, you know, get the ball rolling here to make it another another voter to.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know outside of that episode three like I said that's a big episode for her, but then outside of that there's she's not really involved in much else like we don't hear a lot from her perspective.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Yeah, it's hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's another one.
[SPEAKER_02]: We got to see her on her personality more on on the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, but
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was the challenge, which we'll be posting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we'll be posting.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be posting this upcoming season of the challenge to stay tuned.
[SPEAKER_00]: John, your thoughts?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is kind of the, I think should all kind of fall into the same category as Tiffany where they're really victims of poorly edited seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't fully want to for each of her very terribly edited seasons, and it's for each of she can't wait better than for you one, but I still think it isn't the best edit because they'll can under the radar p-mail winner, which we know is your biver of logs editing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's such a great job at doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And because I'm clearly being sarcastic there and they're actually terrible at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You also really lose a lot of the other characters who could possibly demonstrate why that's important, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And what we don't see is like much of a relationship between Chanel and Mary Ann.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, it is really hard because this is a first-year who, there's this weird hourglass mechanic going on that really makes it hard to connect with people because the game's going so fast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think when we looked at those previous,
[SPEAKER_01]: there's who were also merge boots previously.
[SPEAKER_01]: They at least get three days with someone to kind of get to know them before they have to know someone out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in this case, they get maybe 24 hours if they're lucky.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, well, because they're not the merge boot though.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have the merge boot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they are the merge boot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yes, all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are in the right way, because there's a thing where you're not the hurts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: That helps us to be there incredibly clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they still get some, they still get some time with them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I hear what you're saying, like the game just moves at too fast to pace at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you don't really like sit down and talk with someone.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like every time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Every chat that you have with someone now is like game talk alliance strategy.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like you barely have any downtime to just chat.
[SPEAKER_02]: So so I do.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a good point there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's why in the new era, we see less of an impact of these first chairs.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we got through tiffies and entire section without even saying if you would better or better,
[SPEAKER_01]: okay, sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm fine with that reasoning.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that is kind of this issue we get into with the new era and the shorter game is the edit really doesn't put a lot of focus on these players because we we've talked about a lot of them and like some exceptions there of course with like
[SPEAKER_01]: Ali Ford likes or something like that, where they aren't very predominant in the edit, but the merge boot or like the first year does tend to be a very important person and character in seasons most of the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's usually a very big deal that they're going.
[SPEAKER_01]: And because of the formula that is in place for the new era with merger to rate everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just don't get that added anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't get to know our first years very well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Unless, if you're Caleb, which will get there, but yeah, so Chanel better or better.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know a little bit of both, like I think that she was pro mariam, but also anti Mike.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think the same thing with Tiffany though, they're in the same boat of like pro Erica and tizander.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even feel like Tiffany is anti-zander though.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like Tiffany was like neutral.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but did you do anything?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more like respect to the game thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think Chanel was a little bit more towards that bitterness towards Mike than that, but also is like a respect to the game thing, which is why she's acknowledging the game at an area in place.
[SPEAKER_01]: whether it's got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So both, that's still the word.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Survivor 43, our first chair is Janine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Janine winds up voting gay blur.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a Owen is the target here, but Owen winds up winning a immunity.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Janine is pretty much toast.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's coming off of thinking
[SPEAKER_00]: with Dwight in his boot, but really Jesse has it in his pocket.
[SPEAKER_00]: So nobody, nobody knows that part.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sammy flipped betrayed her.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody really wants Janine to go home, it's just the easy boot and a lot of people are pressuring the easy boot, but rather than going for a big name, Sammy is wanting to go for a big name, Cassidy doesn't want Janine to go because of the girls numbers and wants the girls to kind of take more of a rise in the game and Ryan is the other name floating around.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and we, Janine is the vote because she has a smart mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a puzzle threat and also a threat to slide under the radar is what I believe gay blur says about her.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: I think she's actually a pretty good first-year based on Final Tribal Council because she is like, hey, Gabriel, I just want to come clean, I did search her bag, you have really killer instincts, like she is seeing everybody's game and is like,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to give you, you know, the props that you duped that you duped to me or I attempted to, you know, pull one over on you, but you couldn't, you sniffed it out right away.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think she emerges as a bit more of somebody of note as we go into these
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Janine, I think we get a lot more of Janine than we do the first few years we get in the last few years.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm saying, she's more... And I think that partially has to do with like a change in the edit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it also fact that they had under the radar male winner this time and they had to really show his tried more to show like why he baby possibly wins and that really benefits Janine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Janine just having that relationship with Elliot
[SPEAKER_01]: Idol being voted out was white, but it's actually in Jesse's pocket of it all really like there were just like all these stories Beats that made it so that we had to kind of know who to need was as we wash the season and because of that I think we get a better idea of her game and everything and I think I Don't know how vocal to mean is as a first sure I don't know how much she's kind of like forcing a folk by any means However, I do think her being there
[SPEAKER_01]: can really prop up Gailer's game a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: As someone who was with him the entire time throughout the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think now, what's interesting is that she gives Gailer credit for sniffing out the liar, whatever, when I think Sammy was the one who told Gailer that I mean, was going through her bag.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's funny, but it shows that people are wanting to give Gailer credit for things, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: like it shows that they want him to win.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it also, like you said, it gives, that's where we get the best insight, I think, into Janine's mindset of how she's going to vote and also her relationship with Gavler because of just when they were in the game together, like they were at odds.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, like they were now working the other at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this gives clarity that like she does respect his game and is one of O for him.
[SPEAKER_02]: So her final travel question.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think sets the tone better than anything else that I could see when she was actually in the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think this changes though, if Ellie is the first juror here, I think those two together, then go more towards Cassidy, because Cassidy is someone who's trying to save her, Ellie has no business with Gabler and is out on him.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think she impacts Janine's thought process a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: into a more Cassidy focused vote or Owen, I feel either, but I feel like it's just away from Gabler and I don't think she makes that comment of, you know, you have killer instincts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, I don't know, it's really hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still kind of hard to believe in,
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said previously, I don't think the new era really does the first year as much justice in their edits.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, she's more present, but we don't really get her gain sense as much for some reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: She needs always feels like the person being do this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, like, we couple all into like the Charlie Brown of Owen at the final try.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, also, but Jeanine feels like the person who is prominent in the edit because of things that happen to her rather than think she's doing in the game, or think she's thinking in the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think even if we look at her other bio travel accounts, a question where she understands castes alliance, but she really wants to know about Gabers and Owens.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't tell because she ends up voting for Gabler.
[SPEAKER_01]: If this is something that she's trying to drop Gabler up with to like really demonstrate his Alligablerness and how he's in the game or if it's an Alligabler answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know, but I don't know if she's like trying to prop up that and be like, Oh, like, what were you doing Gabler?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or if this was just like a genuine curiosity like actually Gabler, what the heck were you doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think during the final travel council, Cassidy laid out basically how she was maneuvering throughout the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're in a game where a little bit more gray and she was just like, hey, wait, what happened there?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, like, oh, and was like, oh, well, a lot of my allies got voted out and then I short up one alliance that took me here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the game was like, well, I never had one alliance.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had these certain groups and once it got
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, narrowed down.
[SPEAKER_00]: I went with this one group and then this group within the group and kind of onioned it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that, I think that Janine, just a skip ahead, a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think she's a better juror because she was kind of close with Owen during the season as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were on the bottom together.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that this is a way, and obviously nobody was coming into this tribal voting for him, but it was a little bit of a way to give him something like, oh, and please
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, and same with Gabe where it's a good way to get everybody involved and like not just talk about the obvious like tell us something that's not obvious and I think when jurors ask you a question to reveal something that's that's really good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that that helps then this better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I do agree with like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think when we're looking at Jeanine as a juror, it's not her vote isn't as important as just like the contribution she brings in final travel counsel.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the fact that she is willing to provide an opportunity for everyone to have a voice and voice aspects of the games that they she feels someone else is already doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes that's all you need from a juror, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe maybe you don't need a specific answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: as a juror, but what you do need is to have everyone have the equal opportunity to answer a question that someone are already taking the liberty to answer, somehow else in their jury speech.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what you need, that's really well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also say this that this is a situation like I've mentioned this a few times where like the person that everybody is voting for goes home the night before and like this this is one of the most WTF final threes in striver history so it's like everybody's was probably like well what what do we ask right what what do we want to know.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we really don't know who we're going to vote for out of this group and in terms of, you know, game that was just the most liked socially, but I'm sure there was a lot of discussion and a lot of things that needed to be, they needed to know here from a gameplay standpoint because this was a pretty unexpected final for probably in the game and definitely from watching it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think you bring up a really good point there, Kyle, because
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I think it makes it even harder to fully evaluate Janine as a first sure because this is when this way in half happened, why?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like everyone was like, wait, what just happened?
[SPEAKER_01]: How did Gabriel end up winning this season?
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, I do blame for that, despite the fact that, you know, some people named Phil were able to sniff it out by watching and noticing a trend in all the professionals and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: However, this is just one of
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you would understand you need a lot more on subsequent rewatches as to her contribution rather than on a first watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, I, I, this season was what four years ago now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not the fresh and because of the kind of I haven't covered the new era in, uh, in the rewinds, uh, it's not as fresh as other
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember Gene's contributions and everything in 483, but her as a player and what she was looking for in a potential winner does escape me a bit more.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, it was a good point that you made that she's more prominent in the edit than the ones that we talked about before, but we still don't get that that side of her and I'm looking at the art she has 28 confessionals in eight episodes which is pretty good, but it's not like you said it's all this stuff that's happening to her it's all this circumstantial stuff that's going on it's like, oh man, my idol and home, oh man, Ellie went home, it's like, but we don't get what she's thinking it's just her talking about all this stuff that's happened to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's like when someone on big brother gets the, uh, this is what the challenge is diary room.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is musical chairs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've, yeah, you can sniff out those confessionals of like, oh, is this for a reason?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, do we need them to actually need them to have a confessional this episode?
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are going to survivor 44.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish we didn't have to, um, not for the reason of the, the merge boot slash first or matte blanket chip, um, wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: This episode was a ride, um, I'll make you want to watch 44 again, um, but, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the first things that comes out of Matt's mouth is I feel confident.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm ready to play the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is going to go great, you know, all the things that you got to look out for and it's like going home, um, because he lost his boat.
[SPEAKER_00]: two times in a row.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so now he can actually vote and play the game of survivor.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's the boot he he leaves on which is crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it's it's a wild ride.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is where we start the Split Tribal Council situation at this vote.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, coincidentally, I think four out of the five of these all had the reward be sandwiches and chips.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's coincidental.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's just the very hard thing to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it's coincidence with the asteroids, but like Jeff kept being like, and sandwiches, and sandwiches, I was like, what?
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, Matt.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is this is kind of an odd situation here because we have the merge boot of Josh, that was a really chaotic And in situation with with him, so you get all of that you get Matt, who's looking like he's a big time player narrator strategist, right, and then you get this Where we're like, Franny wins immunity for her group, right, and so like their safe
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you have one half that's going to travel the other half is watching it's it's really weird and then we have the What was it called the this it wasn't the steal of a but it was like the the sole vote or the possessive vote something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, command of a
[SPEAKER_02]: Amanda vote where Matt's entire tribe is on was watching and he's alone and it comes down between the first juror and the eventual winner for this vote here.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's definitely a weird vote here.
[SPEAKER_02]: This whole mechanism is weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to push back on one thing you have there Kyle.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's Matt really shown to be that much of a strategist?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I feel like he kind of falls in the same cap of Jeanine, where he's pitch and hold in the edit into, hey, do you guys know we finally have a show, man?
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say that his, like the proportionality of his edit, if you will, would like lead you to believe that he will be.
[SPEAKER_02]: like a straddle like I would say now like I think I was in a fight and it's like harder opt to like yeah more of the strategic brains were um... jam jam was more of the the social aspect of he's like we're gonna play survivor with a capital s where it's just like it's that kind of talk works like oh this guy's like his heads in the game it's like he doesn't really do anything but like that's the vibe that that you would get from from the edit
[SPEAKER_00]: This old though is focused on Matt and Franny and their love because he loses the challenge and is like oh I'm upset I have to go to travel council, but I'm so happy Franny wanted me to be and he's he just keeps talking about how excited he is that Franny won immunity and then is like scrambling to try and
[SPEAKER_02]: You get a montage made episode of things that happened earlier in the same episode where it was up there and stuff like, thank goodness there's still the other.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a great story, but it's like, wow, we're really going a direction, a very decided direction with this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and again, I think there's just falls into this.
[SPEAKER_01]: 44.
[SPEAKER_01]: is like at least if it wasn't for like how poorly edited 41 was in the hourglass was 44 would probably be the worst season in the new era.
[SPEAKER_01]: And thanks to be the worst season in the new era and a lot of that has to do with the added here and a lot of us to do it we kind of get.
[SPEAKER_01]: with the intersection of the Tika three, a lot of the characters feel almost like they're standardized in the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually, honestly, the Tika three kind of feels standardized a bit too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where I just like, the edit focus is so much on a singular aspect of them that it's all their character be, it's, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, while I agree, Matt kind of gets this bit of training that you think you should go on further, but this is again, one of those instances where you get swapped, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: If he's smart though, how does he not remember his bag, too?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's the other thing of like, if he's the smart genius guy on the island, he doesn't bring his bag everywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you bring your bag to the challenge.
[SPEAKER_00]: You bring your bag everywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: Rupert told you that season's ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: You bring your bag.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's just,
[SPEAKER_01]: Does he have any, I don't know, just him going in a split trial council where the other person is Jam Jam, sway him to vote for Jam Jam.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think there's anything that really like swayes him to vote Jam Jam.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't keep respects game.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know, and we know, because he is actually still like, him and Franny are both fairly involved with the survivor community.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we do have a sense of like, they're love through a game and everything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: and lots of each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: But because of that, we do know that he respects game and we know that that is something he takes into this final travel account.
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, this is one of those seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: But kind of you and I were at the life finale, or we're at like the price in one event for this finale.
[SPEAKER_01]: And all the conversation that was going on at that far, no one could really come through a consensus who they thought was
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and again, like, I think it kind of goes into this edit here where we're not being told enough of what the players look for in a winner in these seasons.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, McKenna, I was talking to McKenna about this before we went live about how I think there was a lot of thought that Carolyn had a chance to win this season at the time, but I think maybe looking back on it now to me, it seems like she doesn't really have that much of a chance.
[SPEAKER_02]: looking back on it because like she is the more emotional player.
[SPEAKER_02]: She is just kind of there to be like the character right and it's like oh of the two like yeah, they're going to vote for Jam Jam.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, like we know that Heidi isn't winning just from like the way she's portrayed and her story in a season is like not that much, but we don't get much sense of like why people aren't voting for her here and like especially Matt like Heidi was the person who tried to save Matt.
[SPEAKER_02]: when he went home.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, why exactly does Matt not value that like it's it's a perfectly valid thing to to value like game over just like somebody's you know social relationship with them, but like why was that, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm and it almost like while Heidi did try and save Matt, it also like.
[SPEAKER_00]: she was toying around with saving jam jam because of their relationship to and I wonder I I do wonder if
[SPEAKER_00]: Franny or somebody on that side that one told Matt about, you know, Heidi's flip flop where she didn't know who she wanted to save.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was like, oh, I don't think I can save Matt if she, which she really couldn't because of the extra vote so it didn't, it kind of negated things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, I did, it would have,
[SPEAKER_00]: tight it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're overall doesn't fully save Matt.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just goes to a guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I know a way that they could have saved Matt here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Franny had already won immunity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just just drop and have your group go to travel and then Matt is completely safe like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the way this worked here.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's blaming anybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: You should be blaming Franny.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're like up in the morning and he's like, you remember when you could have thrown that challenge and I would still be in the game, like, you got me through that was your driver.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so if the Marjoratory boot Josh was the firstger, I honestly do think we have a shake up here because Josh and Jam Jam's relationship was not good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Potentially, but I don't think he's voting for any of these other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we have maybe a few votes that are shifted one way or the other.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Jam Jam still takes the ultimate win.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we don't have the vote break out that we do.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to tackle because just as I said, not voting Jam Jam.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's true because I think Josh might respect it in the end, the thing is is, Josh also gets rude by a swap, right, because this is, for those who don't remember season 44, I don't blame you to go, this was our first swap in the new era where they decided to just rotate a player for each tribe to the next tribe, it's maybe the worst swap outside of
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry to that guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: They gave every person a free of hidden immunity idol when they walked to tribes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this was terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was a terrible twist.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I ate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I don't like season 44.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bottom five season of survivor.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is,
[SPEAKER_01]: I think when we really look at it, Josh, yes, clash with Jam Jam.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it was enough to take his boat away at the end of the game, though.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's enough time to cool down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we've seen bitter trees.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've all been to talk about bitter firstures, several times throughout this entire series.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think in the new era, specifically the way they cast the new era,
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, they don't look for those type of antagonists anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, because the new era so, whom buy on, so a handholdy most of the time,
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it really impacts it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I think of this entire group the only Merchistory person who would in fact is the one that we we some have skipped talking about in 43 which is Ellie Who would absolutely put her against it?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we did not talk about the fact that she would not vote for Gabriel
[SPEAKER_01]: You're talking about it enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ari was going to say to not vote for Gabler, 100% we talked about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is one small sentence.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't talk about it either.
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't talk about it either.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's talking about this being Kumbaya, I think Matt is a better first, because he's clearly not better, and his kind of jury speaks moment is that Jam Jam played the middle game and that nobody felt betrayed by that, where he was able to pick and choose kind of where he
[SPEAKER_00]: Jam Jam sucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm out on him, not voting for him.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the worst.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then his just overall statement at final travel council is something that he admires about all of the final three is that they were themselves fully unabashedly and just they showed their personality and let it shine.
[SPEAKER_00]: um something I think that resonated with Matt because he was also, you know, trying to do the same as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, I think this was, uh, that Matt is a better firster, um, but again, I don't know what impact he actually had on Jam Jam's win, which is kind of what we're trying
[SPEAKER_02]: that this is one of the, just frankly, one of the worst final tribals of all time.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it's, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like a bone.
[SPEAKER_02]: true, true, true, true.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was, that was rough.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, like this is, this is, this is not a final tribal where I feel like we get a lot of insight into the game or like the jurors, like you just said, Matt's question really sums it up is like, oh, I admire your personality, I admire your journey.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of these people talking about the journeys they went on and like their personal growth within the season.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all well and good, but in terms of like getting
[SPEAKER_02]: getting insight as to who's you know who made what moves what moves are the people on the jury respecting like I feel like we don't get any of that in this final tribal so that only makes it tougher like the Janine's jury question was was great because we got like all of our insight on to her through that but with with this it's like we get I feel like I know less about how Matt is thinking through this right
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree, and you know, again, this kind of goes to the jury format.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was, it was 45, where they switched the jury format away from, uh, went out last, oh, play again, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to say, I know a lot of, no, well, it might be 44 because I think they were going individual questions because I think he was calling on them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really skipped around at Pineapple Council and just looked for faces.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't different enough to where we can remember it, but I do know what we're talking about.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: this stretch of seasons that we have here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually think what's we get into the next half of the new era.
[SPEAKER_01]: These first years get a little more defined because we do get to start getting more character people again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not like this weird, blenderization that we have in 44.
[SPEAKER_01]: So because of that, I think things kind of start picking up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess it's also the 90 minutes that we get as of the next season.
[SPEAKER_01]: It means that we do have more time that we can spend with some of these people.
[SPEAKER_01]: But
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know the way these first four seasons of the new era were edited makes it really hard to really gauge how these first jurors were really focusing on again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's move on to our first hour and a half season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Survivor 45.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have a few people to talk about here.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have obviously Caleb, who is our first year.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's hot off of the shot in the dark, a cyclical play, negating 11, not 12 votes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we also then will talk about seafood and jamemaia as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: and their potential impacts on this jury, but Caleb does have people trying to fight for him to stay in the game because he is that big target.
[SPEAKER_00]: because he just had that shot in the dark place.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he wanted to stay in the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: People wanted him to stay in the game to push that target forward a few more votes like Jake.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, this is good for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Austin is like, this is good for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this tribal council just shows how much of a chokehold D had on this game where she's able to get
[SPEAKER_00]: didn't tell her a big piece of information.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then how she's able to tell Austin, just like, no, we're not going that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: This vote is insane by D because there's this confessional of like, no, Caleb is going home.
[SPEAKER_00]: Stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you guys, you're, you got to stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: This is one of those bigger characters because of the pre-march with what he does with Emily and the shot in the dark play.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now everybody is boosting him up, up, up, up and then he goes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm always wondered if if this was like a normal merge vote and not a split tribal,
[SPEAKER_02]: a bad draw, I guess, with the tribes.
[SPEAKER_02]: He does have Jake who's willing to save him.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he's with guitar who's really not.
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of that is due to not Caleb's actions.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like due to Bruce's actions.
[SPEAKER_02]: um, who is like by proxy kind of associated with Caleb, even though Bruce was the one who is like campaigning the Caleb vote at the most, uh, the merch.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you know, just that whole group um, is like Katura's trying to separate herself from that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when Jake comes to her and this plan by Jake is creative, but I don't think it was
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, executed because they left Catera out of the idle information.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, oh, hey, I have a big favor to ask you, go to rocks for the biggest target in the game.
[SPEAKER_02]: And also you're at the bottom of our alliance, just so you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: That that really is is what does that that does Caleb in here, and it's not much I don't think to do with what he actively does.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's just not refined enough like as a player.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he has all the skills, but he's not like polished and that's why everybody was able to see you what a big threat he was even Subaya from the premer.
[SPEAKER_02]: They tried to vote him out in episode three.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we've been backing the edit a little bit, but Jake's attempted move here that editing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think was so much fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: I forgot all about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just coutura being with Jake.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've kind of always been forced to be aligned.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so having coutura go to rocks, I think she's still kind of done it, but not necessarily go to rocks, go to the draw.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then try and see if they can force Austin's hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they can't, then be like Jake, sorry, we're going with Caleb.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is no lose for her here to go to quote unquote rocks because it's not for Katura.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to get to that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's not going to draw a rock out of a bag.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's either going to pull Austin to their side or force Jake to go over.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't I think Jake won't put his game in total jeopardy if Katura is not willing to be like rocks all it on his side.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that costs KJ Caleb's vote here?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or do you think Caleb is always a lost vote for D?
[SPEAKER_00]: If somehow Caleb found out that D was the root cause of his ouster where she was just nailing, pushing hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Caleb needs to go here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he is more in line of, you got me out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to give you the props and you tried to save me and it failed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, yeah, that's fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Caleb's interesting because they does feel like we know Caleb a lot better than the other four juries we talked about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That being said, Caleb doesn't know if I'm going to travel counsel.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was the entire time and I was like, does he not say a word at final tribal council, he has like this jury speak slash rights of passage.
[SPEAKER_00]: They do a rights of passage in this season.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're out about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we were so excited about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They say Caleb was a killer and they had to get him out all that, you know, fluffy stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he was saying in his like little moment, Jake might get my vote because he had the toughest road here.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was constantly fighting Reba and nobody understood his bigger picture.
[SPEAKER_00]: And which is true, like Jake had very good moves that he wanted to make happen, but
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and it kind of with his boost of Jake also boosts D as well because it's D's like missed of Reba.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think he should have given more of a nod to Jake because Jake's game was a lot similar, a lot more similar to Caleb in the fact of Caleb couldn't get things off the ground.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was on the bottom.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had that tough road.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Lulu constantly losing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he
[SPEAKER_00]: they were down to three, and then Sean quit, is that that's where I see Sean quit basically.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so now it's just at the merge, it's just Caleb and Emily against the world, and he's the first target, or one of the first targets.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's fascinating because we're just not going to season where that's got the case, like the tickets where you go, because they've been like the Maxing tribe.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in this instance, our Maxing tribe in Lulu is targeted right away because Caleb is such a big personality because there was that if I
[SPEAKER_01]: all correctly.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a moment where Caleb goes to the Reba in the season and that really let's put this last impact on Reba to know how much of a game or he is and how much of a social player he is and it really scares them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's really one of the big things we get for Caleb here is we understand that he really appreciates a social game because that's his game, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this finally we get to kind of go back to this idea of like the
[SPEAKER_01]: The jury really wants the winner to reflect the game they want to play and the game they respect and I think that's what D ultimately doesn't order to win over Caleb's vote and why he is the only male contestant on the jury that doesn't end up voting for Austin And I think that is something to look at here because I think Caleb He's much more of a social player than a lot of male players that we see in New Era
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that's kind of weird after coming off the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were just talking about like jam jam when he had a game and everything and then because of the social game.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think most of the time, we in the new era, we really get our men to be more focused on like strategy or challenges.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't really get them focused on social players.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Caleb is very much like that kind of like more of an all around player with a real large emphasis on social game.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that especially comes from his connection that he makes with Emily, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And because of that, I think we get a little bit more insight as should why Caleb would end up voting D in the end here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, that being said.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or again, sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the vote split again?
[SPEAKER_01]: I have three.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's our closest vote since ghost island, which is also important, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's also why we get a bit more insight into why Caleb is potentially voting for a D. And why we have more that we can say about Caleb than we could really about the four or four people we talked about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not just because there's 90 minutes and we have a more time down besides, oh, no, because he's on his disaster drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had just been a lot of time
[SPEAKER_01]: but because survivor edits better when it's a close vote at the end, because they don't have to just be like, yeah, there's persons winning inside.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: I also think, like, going back to the Jake of it all, like,
[SPEAKER_02]: I will compare it a little bit to the Tiffany and Zander situation in the sense that it's like, hey, you were one of the people who knew my game the best, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like Caleb and Jake like worked together for a little bit here, like Jake was the one who was tried.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, I tried to save you, you knew my game as well as anybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if I don't get your support, like that, that really kills it for me, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if the if the first person on the jury,
[SPEAKER_02]: does not champion the person that you what one of the people that you were the closest to is not championing you on the jury is the first juror like that really is kind of like a death and hell for your chances when you don't have a lot to show for the rest of your game because the rest of Jake's game did not go great so if Caleb is not out there saying like oh Jake was scrapping Jake found his way through that he's not going to get any but no one else is going to do that for him.
[SPEAKER_00]: true.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Caleb is more of a sponge of information rather than, you know, ringing it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's he's soaking up the information because he hasn't had much as much time with some of these players because of, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: be like, we did have a normal tribe swap, but it was, you know, not he just didn't have the time spent with the final three, but he did have that relationship with Jake and that was the only thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of that he could have clung to and it still wasn't as strong as the game de-presented because he did try and have Caleb and Bruce kind of work together for his own game's sake but then that didn't matter because of this split tribal council and I don't know, you know, I don't know if Caleb goes here if it's not a split tribal council.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it is, and he is the second person to get voted out here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what if seafood and Caleb get voted out together and are on the jury?
[SPEAKER_00]: How does seafood, who voted for seafood, impact this jury with Caleb?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh boy, who voted for seafood, who does seafood vote for?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think seafood probably ends up being a vote for Austin here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not enough to like complete the alter the jury because I don't think he's he.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think seafood has enough of personality for slavery.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he has plenty of personality.
[SPEAKER_01]: I sort of, I guess, but he is plenty of personality.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he has much of a per persuasive personality to push about any direction.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think he follows more in line with like,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's weird because him and Riba, he was on the outspan entire time, didn't realize he was on the outspan entire time, but I think he probably gets, I have more connection to the boys on the drive that he does.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think just like having Drew come back is enough to probably push C2 towards, like having Drew on the jury.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is enough to push C2 towards an Austin boat here?
[SPEAKER_00]: And now we can sprinkle J. Maya as the murder director of the film is she fully in D's camp.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I actually think there's a there's a it's not a zero percent chance see who goes to either Despite the fact that they were trying to orchestrate see who's outster at when one of the sides that he wants to leave the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I do think These just have that person out and it's really hard to judge the The jury's impact
[SPEAKER_01]: when we're directly looking at one of the best winners of the last 10 seasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: True.
[SPEAKER_00]: All righty, anything else with Caleb?
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think he's a betterger.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he is very loved and I think just the way he presents himself, Caleb's never going.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Caleb could ever be better based on what we saw with him in the season, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess two logical of a player to do that and he would sit there and go through the reason, he's too happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just a happy guy by the looks of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think he...
[SPEAKER_01]: just keeps the vibes well on a jury and maybe even cultivates a opportunity where we don't have a 71 split where we don't have like this lock side of jury at the end and we do get a closer vote is because Caleb is kind of fostering an opportunity for that type of conversation that happened on Rosa.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, we don't have to talk about this for too long, but I do wonder, like this is a situation where the person who lasted longer in the immunity challenge went to tribal second, like there, their group went second.
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's pretend that seafood's group goes second, Caleb goes first.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Caleb's not even on the jury at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a very real possibility that that could have happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now seafood is our first juror, Caleb's not there.
[SPEAKER_02]: We know Austin, we know Austin already got three votes.
[SPEAKER_02]: is Jake voting for Austin or D, is that group of four able to pull somebody else over on the jury?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure who the like of who is a Kelly Emily Katura and Julie.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if they would have pulled anybody over.
[SPEAKER_02]: We could see a tie and then have a tie and Jake is the vote.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's probably what would have happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what happens on the tissue.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how Jake would end up voting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a, hey, what's very, very big one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially every big one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like D. What a seafood was the first year.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was close to happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that has been a bitter or better join us next week for our final bitter or better episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has been such a fun series.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't want to miss our finale episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: But John, what else do we have going on in the specialist universe this week?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, earlier this week, Phil Will and Blake wrapped up the Top 10 Survivor Winners.
[SPEAKER_01]: And let me tell you,
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm totally satisfied.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who ended up having the best winning game in survivor history based on a base on how that went?
[SPEAKER_01]: I totally satisfied with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So make sure you check that out if you haven't already.
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of know I did have some influence on that with our aggregated list where McKenna and I spent like five hours cultivating our order of winners and then it was also put into the rankings there because Phil was going to end up doing that anyways.
[SPEAKER_00]: I needed your help.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was barely for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tomorrow, Phil, and what's fun in Ireland will be covering the winning games of these five seasons that we just talked about today.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then on Friday, they'll be finishing off that series with the last five winners of Survivor, so those should be really interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, there's a new month coming along.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have some exciting things coming from the specialist moving forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: First off, this Sunday, I can't be there because I am off in the woods this weekend.
[SPEAKER_01]: But McKenna and Alex Trios who joined us last week for better or better will be kicking off our coverage of.
[SPEAKER_01]: The challenge season 42 cut broke brand new season the challenge lots of survivors over there very excited to bring back the challenge coverage to the specialist we haven't had it since COVID so it'd be really nice to We had a Drian for USA to we did we did that's true
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, right or don't, Chris, we're just all over on the page.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, that's on the main channel.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are talking to challenge.
[SPEAKER_01]: That will be McKenna, uh, Alcherius and myself covering it this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, McKenna and Alex will be doing a cast assessment on Sunday at three o'clock.
[SPEAKER_01]: Eastern.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, also a theme breakdown to kind of get anybody who is new to the challenge prepared for watching the season.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like the survivors that are on it, Michelle, Queen Fitzgerald, Cassidy and Sidney and Chris Underwood, I mean, if anybody is here to cover the challenge, it is the
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you are watching the challenge this season, we'll get you prepped and ready to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then our coverage of the challenge starts next week.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have bitter and bitter or bitter on Wednesday, and then McKenna Alex and I will be recapping the premiere of the challenge 42 on Thursday.
[SPEAKER_01]: We will keep that challenge that coverage on Thursday's for the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: That way it doesn't interfere with survivor coverage when survivor does start up again in September.
[SPEAKER_01]: and Phil and Blake are going to start covering surviving barstool once that gets going.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that should be interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, so don't worry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know a lot of series are wrapping up here on this specialist in the next week or two, but we have so much more contact coming through to keep you busy all the way through until we have a premiere date for Survivor 51 now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we know that the open era will be starting on September 23rd.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's exciting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And where we're
[SPEAKER_01]: It's less than two months away to Survivor.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're almost there.
[SPEAKER_01]: The off-season solos over, but we still have so much going on here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every season matters is still trucking along.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think heroes, viewers and hustlers are starting up pretty soon over there on the Patreon for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So become a patron, subscribe to the channel.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you next week.
[SPEAKER_01]: The wrap-up, bitter or better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Goodbye, everyone.