[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, I've been freaking a podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bo Celino is on that's a gay ass podcast, and you're a true angel, Bo, because I was running late, we had tech issues, and yet you have maintained such a gorgeous energy throughout.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bo, why you such a good guy to me today?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've to sell these really loved you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, how dare, okay, we're starting on with a compliment to me, which is huge.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I want to compliment you by telling you, I have followed you for many a year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also obsessed with your sub-stack, and we're gonna get into the Bocellina lore.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, before we recorded, you said that people butcher your name all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had to ask you how to pronounce your last name, but you say people also butcher your first name.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do they call you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, I get boo.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get inexplicably, I get fun sometimes, the, I think the U turns into it, and occasionally, like, reverse dyslexia.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're instead of front, back, and front, and backwards, they're going up and down, where it's with the U to the M.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that actually also used to happen in a Spanish class in high school, the teacher called me Bean repeatedly and always.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was particularly humiliating.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really know why that one hurts so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't think Bean has ever been used as a positive descriptor, however, if anybody can make it to work, it is Bo, Cielino, uh, Cielino,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, see, see you all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Bo, it is such an honor to have you on this gay ass podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, we are going to talk about to probably this of it all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also your bio on sub-stack states you are a former fist bump enthusiast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we just started recording.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to ask about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm giving a piece Bo seal.
[SPEAKER_00]: We know I'm giving a goddamn tease.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we will be embarking on that, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's flash, not check your team.
[SPEAKER_00]: A few months ago, Beau, you turned 33 years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: A happy birth, but B, this is your Jesus' year.
[SPEAKER_00]: How is it going?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, better than it went for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: For Jesus?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm going good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that being, you know, solidly in my mid 30s feels very correct.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it really suits you and I myself am in about two to three months.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm turning 37, so I'm going from mid to late and as cliche as it is, I'm actually like thinking it's better than the 20s, the early to mid.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like I'm starting to feel like, you know, the transitions, the transformations of the early 30s are starting to settle a bit and I pray for that for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I receive this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of receiving energy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you a woo-woo bitch?
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that we've actually wait.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we tell listeners?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember when we first met?
[SPEAKER_00]: We were on a street, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We were on a street in New Orleans and I was there to do Eltham, musical, which I talk about far too much for having happened so many years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I ran into you and Matt and I gotta tell you how it was a big fan and I was the year of our Lord 20, 18, that was 2018.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it did not feel like that long ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's upsetting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, now here we are, year 33 and I am,
[SPEAKER_00]: Still gay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now are both who we are going to ask you the famous gay ass podcast question, so we can truly get into your lore and that question is, whose fault is it that your gay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who do we blame, babe?
[SPEAKER_01]: Fifth grade, Mr. Brad.
[SPEAKER_01]: He had a habit of, or he had a hobby.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's a jogger, but he had a bad habit.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a jogger.
[SPEAKER_00]: A bit of jogger.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll just have his name again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you say Mr. Pratt?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then PRATT.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, either one or two T's.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not totally sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: One, Mr. Pratt left a jog.
[SPEAKER_01]: he in my memory was fine and I was 10 and he would, it was an all-boy Catholic middle school and it was in a park and he would use our lunch break to jog and he would change out of his work uniform and then come out and these like maroon gym shorts that were too far past his knee but
[SPEAKER_01]: And just the right way and he had this like he was shirtless, too, and he had this hairy body and I remember being 10 and being like He knows what he's doing and in that in that context now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like he certainly better have not But yeah Let me do hope he had no idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really know idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was feel a
[SPEAKER_00]: Smith and and I hope he's well and you know I do too and I have to tell you both that I get a lot of answers for who's fall is that you're gay on this podcast and that answer is so correct because you're landing on a few things or any 10 year old children who we are actually the predators in that situation towards the adults.
[SPEAKER_00]: Be a short shore, and the fact that you can remember the color of it is really important.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then of course, the most important is shirtless, hairy body, question mark.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why was the man taking his clothes off during a lunch break at the Catholic school at which he worked at?
[SPEAKER_00]: I find that to be a little interrassant.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree, you know, it feels like it was unnecessary, um, but it was necessary.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's also probably super hot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where did you grow up?
[SPEAKER_00]: into Orleans.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's humid.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's swampy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is only the time he had to get his jog in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you are bringing up something very important, which is that you went to an all-boy Catholic school.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that gay journalistic follow-up question has to be, did you go into a Catholic high school and continue to be told you were burning in hell or did you escape the
[SPEAKER_01]: I went to a Catholic high school for two years after that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I went to like a pretty liberal, very cool high school for my sophomore to senior year.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what was up with the switch?
[SPEAKER_01]: I just didn't want to be at a Catholic high school anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this other school was very cool and like had like an arts program and it was the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, that's where I want to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a great switch.
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved at a great high school experience following that switch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think what you did that's like all joking aside, it's actually really admirable is that you even out, whatever fucking age that is 16, 15, knew that Stacey Orico said there's got to be more to life and then you took that opportunity to actually change schools and then have a much better time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause my husband, Matt went to, my Matt went to,
[SPEAKER_00]: Catholic school and it fuck, it fucks people up.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing great now thriving, but I think Catholic school really looks it people up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, it definitely does and it takes years to unpack that and some people never really do and.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, um, I'm thrilled to hear about the arts schooling, like liberal schooling of it all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, we always have to ask on this chaos podcast if you were a theater queen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that you're like super talented when it comes to design, um, home, gorgeous renovation, um, but were you giving visual artists or were you theater queen at any point?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was not.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually was a very checked out of theater world until I met Matt.
[SPEAKER_01]: My ex husband.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a theater kid and really introduced me to that world.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I did fall in love with it, not quite to the extent of of him, but everything he'd bring me to that was always like.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the best.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just loved it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a really tremendous, that's why.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is why.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I stay your name over and over throughout this interview, it's because it's the first time I've learned how to pronounce your last name and I fucking love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: See you, Lino.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's delicious.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thank you, delicious.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bocellino.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you joking?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really, really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, now since you are someone who has such amazing taste and in fact, let me just get the listeners a bit of a background.
[SPEAKER_00]: If anybody doesn't follow Boe, he has the handle probably this on Instagram.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has a sub stack that is,
[SPEAKER_00]: truly incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're writing is so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: But why I first fell in love with your work is the way that you can like beautifully carry to space.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your photography is stunning the way you use social media.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say you're one of the people who has worked in the influencer space that's truly used your powers for good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have never felt following you that I was like,
[SPEAKER_00]: jealous of your life in a really hateful way.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was more like the true aspirational.
[SPEAKER_00]: He can curate such a gorgeous meal or a gorgeous space, and I think that you have always put out that positive energy, and that's why I'm so thrilled that you are here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So people who don't follow Bowie yet, please do so.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I want to know, you're like gay origin story for the home decor of it all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where did you get the gift of being able to curate a space
[SPEAKER_01]: My mother was a really great homemaker and put a lot of intention into making our home feel really calm and beautiful at least physically even at times when it might not have been otherwise.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I think it's always just been really important to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel most at peace somewhere that is beautiful to me, whether it's beautiful to someone else.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe more of a whimsical approach to interior design.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like something a little bit dreaming, a little bit like different.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I try and bring a lot of some of that whimsical into my home design.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the best examples of that was the cottage that Matt and I did in Tennessee, which really leaned on Appalachia, very fairytale culture.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love being able to kind of transform your experience of being in a space and also like a something serious.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, truly, I just interviewed one of the only straight men who have done this podcast, Albert Moose Keys, who goes, I love him.
[SPEAKER_00]: he's so fucking great and he I was talking to him about design as well and people like you in Albert inspire me because I just don't have the natural talent for design but the older I get like speaking of getting into my late 30s I'm realizing like I it is so important to have a beautiful space to like really
[SPEAKER_00]: Take stock of the environment you live in because not to get to deep in a motion and vulnerable on you But like I think in a way.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is dark, but this is the truth.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think in a way I never felt that I deserved Good clothes or good space.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I deserve like the energy that it took I was like I have to prove myself in so many other ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even have the like
[SPEAKER_00]: bandwidth to even consider that, but now that I'm getting older, I'm like, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I do deserve like, have a goddamn clean desk, which I don't right now, but eventually I might one day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think in the systems we live within, we are taught that we're not deserving until we do something to prove otherwise and the reality is like you just existing is a reason to deserve it and like you absolutely do deserve to feel comfortable in your home and comfortable in your dress and it's it's unfortunate that we've all been fed this this lie of productivity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, the lie of productivity is such a prison and I very much have like dealt with what you just described as like we're not worth it until we achieve something.
[SPEAKER_00]: That has been my ammo forever and the irony is that now that my career and work stuff is like finally going in a direction that I'm like been working towards for over a decade, I'm starting to loosen the grip on what it actually means because guess what, it means nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: My value is not
[SPEAKER_00]: If my career is good or bad, it doesn't fucking matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you said, it's not that serious.
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you for letting me get it off my chest.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, because I do love people's gay lore, you mention your mom having this great eye and I'm creating a beautiful space when you did come out coming out in New Orleans after going to these Catholic schools was the reception positive or
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I came out when I went to the school that was more liberal and a sophomore of high school, um, and that was a great moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, to my friends, my friends and brothers at that point, and then to my mother, I came out when I was 18, and then once I met, uh, Matt,
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, he was growing up, he was an Italian machismo guy and I was pretty nervous and he had a reaction of concern at first and then he met Matt and kind of
[SPEAKER_01]: flipped the story a little bit for himself where he realized like this was just who I was and kind of took on this protector role.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember the first time bringing to my extended family who didn't even all know yet for Christmas.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a ton of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, he kind of locked in in front of us and like had this like attitude like don't fuck with my son and uh, that was like a really healing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very privileged and very lucky to have had that with him and and uh, uh, I'm so grateful for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love, I mean, I can just see that visual of him sort of storming into the family gathering with that detector Italian Tony Suprano vibe.
[SPEAKER_00]: We always shout out positive straight men here when we can because there are so few of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And let's all for a moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Take a second to thank Bo's dad for being such a mench and for being able to grow past the concern.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it's so normal natural that
[SPEAKER_00]: parents can't feel that way, but I also give you credit for coming out at that young of an age, especially with, again, all of the Catholic people telling you you were going to burn and hell.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is something I can only imagine was not super easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: When it comes to our Laura's well, you write such beautiful essays on your sub-stack, and just for everybody to know, I've linked it in the description for this, because
[SPEAKER_00]: People can post whatever they want on the internet and we can say like good for you, but I think it's very hard to post an essay that can land so well across many different people's perspectives and the way that you write is genuinely so special.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's an essay you have called growing again.
[SPEAKER_00]: where you mentioned stomach issues in high school that you thought might have been based on some sort of allergy or food and then you say it was most likely just anxiety.
[SPEAKER_00]: As somebody who also had stomach issues that I thought was something external in terms out, it was just my Judaism.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious what is your relationship to anxiety now?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you an SSRI girl?
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you deal?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, anxiety has been.
[SPEAKER_01]: want to be biggest players in my life, unfortunately, anxiety and depression, anxiety more.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have kind of accepted that it's something that will always be there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I wrote about this on Substack a long time ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: I used to talk about my, um, I had a panic disorder, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: A panic attacks from when I was like 22 to 30.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and never actually solved that until I started with more experimental therapies like EMDR.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was doing really intense EMDR.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and I, I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does not work.
[SPEAKER_01]: For everyone, I know people have had opinions on it, but it made my panic attacks become almost non-existent.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, for me, I don't think I'll ever be rid of my anxiety, but I've got my systems in place to manage it.
[SPEAKER_01]: My med- my med stack.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, well, the Utrend 300
[SPEAKER_01]: which is actually also kind of died very anxiety, but it helps with their part, which is the depression.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I hear because I have been told that maybe a well-buted human plus is something else was good, but as I'm a very anxious girl too, and I've been told it can make it worse, so I haven't tried it, but okay, so I'm curious about your cocktail.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got well-buted human, what else are we doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, we also in terms of like hardcore pharmaceuticals we've got and as a Pam, um, I love a Benzo, uh, I have been on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is like such a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've talked about this online before, so it's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I, uh, in the midst of my panic disorder, I, and I mid 20s had a psychiatrist who was like malpracticing and I, he got, he got his license removed, but I was seeing him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was 2526 at one point.
[SPEAKER_01]: He had me between on between four and six milligrams of X and X a day, which is like, it's like, you're a zombie.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I sort of.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've been like tapering off of it for like six years.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have a little like nip of clown up to every day.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love pills like I got to tell you I love to.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really do any of the drugs.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love pills.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've been like tapering off of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have my little like a kind of a tiny bit of plump at this point, the daily.
[SPEAKER_01]: But
[SPEAKER_01]: That's maybe controversial to say, but that's just my life, and it's described, it's legal.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not, it's only controversial if you're like hiding it and or clearly like abusing it and then trying to spin a different tail.
[SPEAKER_00]: But no, I think it's actually, again, like a huge strength video as a creator to be open about the sort of stuff because I too love
[SPEAKER_00]: drugs, pills.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love colonization, Pam.
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem with me with a colonopin is that I was prescribed for like an as needed.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was having horrible time sleeping.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was also having panic attacks.
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem is that
[SPEAKER_00]: I would take even a tiny bit, put a pill in quarters, and take even a tiny bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what would happen is I would sleep in my mind, like, great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be able to fall asleep.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, in the middle of the night, my husband would tell me that he would be straddle away, because I scream.
[SPEAKER_00]: I scream in my sleep, one among a lot of him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's not like a whistle tone, falsetto.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a gutterl and sessural chest scream that I have no idea I'm doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a full set I would be much more terrifying actually in this case.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a riot carry.
[UNKNOWN]: Hi.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I kind of wish I had the range, you know what, let's say it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish I could, with all, but no, God, we love, we love prescribed drugs and we, of course, want to give a huge caveat to people listening everything with the help of a doctor.
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't taken clonopin for literally now like a couple of years because of the screams, but I'm,
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm on 10 milligrams of lexapro, which is probably not that much, but I'm too afraid to try something else because it takes so long to like get your body adjusted to it, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Certainly, like I've tried many different medications throughout my 20s, and I love my current psychiatrist, but it is quite wild, like how comfortable psychiatrists will kind of be like, and if it doesn't work, we'll try something else, and then you're like, but wait, when you say it doesn't work, like I can't move, my life has fallen apart.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've done something crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's just not being at a trader, Joe's.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so...
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it's like part of it, but it is, it's, everyone has reason to be cautious and detesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a cost to the journey of trying, but again, that shouldn't stop us from like taking this step.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just had my first session with a new therapist who's like, I can tell really good, because I tried a new one a few months ago and he just sucked.
[SPEAKER_00]: He sucked.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had three sessions, stopped taking, stopped doing therapy with him, and now I've been raw doggy, and I'm very excited to be back in front of a professional to talk about.
[SPEAKER_00]: this bag of bones and this crazy brain.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, speaking of more of our vulnerable topics that we open up about, another one that you have opened up about that I would love to connect on is money.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I see you have called about the money.
[SPEAKER_00]: talks about your complicated relationship with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You said that with assets liquidated in a very major downsize, you're able to pay off your debt.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for anybody who doesn't know, which I'm sure most people listening though, Bow and Matt, his ex husband had probably this for years.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fist bump we refer to at the beginning was the breakup video that went super viral, which we're going to get into.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, in a moment, just because I want to make sure you don't feel like this
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, what kind of money you said that you were able to pay off all of your debts from all this downsizing and I want to say first of all a huge model top.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is.
[SPEAKER_00]: very, very exciting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a lot of my stress comes around my anxiety is around a physical health, like I'm getting sick or I'm not, you know, physically well, and then I've money stress.
[SPEAKER_00]: So question for you to put it on like a positive side.
[SPEAKER_00]: You wrote that you are working on building a life that is what you actually want and not what only looks good.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is something
[SPEAKER_00]: that you do want in life.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is something that we can like, you know, manifest put into the universe as you're in this Jesus here, as we're looking towards the future and curating a life that's just for us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, this is such a privilege and such a privileged answer, and I want to like, make sure I treat that with the full, um, like, weight that that is the case, and I have a lot of privilege in this and have been given a lot of gifts in my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I think
[SPEAKER_01]: One thing I would hope for everyone to have if they would want it is the ability to have leisure.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's come back to something earlier you mentioned about the productivity trap and feeling like you're not worthy of your home being nice to your close being nice or time to relax and I, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: There are one, just as a culture, as Americans, like Losers, not treated well at all, and there are cultures where that is more in the case.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see it in certain parts of Europe, where people are not working the same, more schedules that we are at all, and have much longer off time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think for anyone that can make it happen and is not in the rat race, if you have the privilege and ability to build an ample time in your day to take care of how you're eating and how you're resting and doing self care things that are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe even a bit extreme, like I think regular body work is really important.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, if you have the privilege of the time money for it, mental health, again, like if you have that privilege, that is my goal.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be able to spend a lot of my time just putting my energy back into myself and my nervous system because we're in a world that is so absolutely
[SPEAKER_01]: overwhelming, terrifying.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't have a lot of confidence.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to get better.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I've kind of shifted my view from how can I get to the top of a field or to the top of a tax bracket to how can I every day feel like I want to be alive?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not always been something that I have felt.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I am really trying to get to that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, bow, it could make me cry.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just so, so well said, I think what it points to in a way is how we sometimes have been conditioned to think that we have to like you're saying hit the top of the field or also like work for fixing the world when really what the most effective thing we can do is work on ourselves and our community around us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, whether that comes to our chosen family,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, our neighborhood where we live, but I think it's like feel so much more actionable to look at our own happiness and the people around us than thinking about all these crazy external things that we have absolutely no control over.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just another reference to the sub stack you wrote an essay about going to New York.
[SPEAKER_00]: that you said after a week, I generously describe as not my finest work in the mental health department.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've booked a last minute trip to New York City to see friends, which I think is pointing to this idea of taking care of our nervous system of, you know, even if we're feeling darkness, kind of doing things that make us happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the things that you did right in this is you saw
[SPEAKER_00]: When you were at a restaurant, you said that the woman in the relationship wanted to go to the fragrance store on the corner and the guy wanted to go somewhere else that you couldn't hear.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they started arguing about it and you said my advice from a failed marriage and other related ship catastrophes do both for Christ's sake before you end up hating one another over nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I am going to ask you as we get to the sub-stack side, what's going on with you in terms of dating now, post-marriage.
[SPEAKER_00]: But before we do it, let's, if you don't mind, can we do a quick touch and into the probably this of it all?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that okay?
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Bo.
[SPEAKER_00]: See you all in, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bo's the Alina, um, um, you and your ex-mat, who also did this podcast, and I am equally a fan of both of yours in terms of like how you have dealt with a public breakup, but also just like the energy you're putting into the universe.
[SPEAKER_00]: For people who don't know, you guys broke up.
[SPEAKER_00]: You posted this video, announced in the breakup, and then, uh, but how would you describe what went down?
[SPEAKER_00]: If I don't want to use my words, how would you describe it?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there was a lot of reasonable confusion over what was happening in the video.
[SPEAKER_01]: criticism of the cringe.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I do think there was a lot of like unfair, like you online cyberbullying and abuse.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like the fairness of the cringe, like I think you're giving, I think you're giving people too much credit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think short was the video like a big risk and was the, you know, messaging in the fist bump tough a little tough.
[SPEAKER_00]: completely crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like one of those things that like nothing quite like it had happened before, which is just how the internet works.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like no one had done something quite that weird and so in that context at least and so there was no road map of like how is this going to go
[SPEAKER_01]: The biggest shame of it all is that, like, you know, Matt nice relationship was not perfect.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I regret having shared so much of it in the first place online.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there was so much beauty in that relationship and so much love.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we met when I was 19.
[SPEAKER_01]: We grew up together.
[SPEAKER_01]: We built this whole
[SPEAKER_01]: It not the relationship end on that note necessarily, but to have the public view of it and on that note, I suppose was like quite sad, but also a lesson in letting go and control and radical acceptance and the reality that it's really not that important.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what anyone thinks it became fodder and that's it's rightful place.
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think it also points to how the insanity of not only people online, but also to see internet as a whole, because let's call this beta spade, this happened in August of last year, it's almost been a full year and it's already feels so far in the rear view window for so many people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious.
[SPEAKER_00]: When it happened, I can only I'd aim to imagine what shitstorm it felt like in the middle, but instead of focusing on that, I'm curious about how you feel about it almost a year later.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you look back on it, do you have like a different perspective on it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is it feel like when you think about it now?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it mostly makes me
[SPEAKER_01]: again kind of sad for how it all played out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really feel that much embarrassed than about it anymore, like things could have been and should have been done differently.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, when you're ending a relationship that has that much meaning and there's also this like public view in the way that we had made it public, we invited that in.
[SPEAKER_01]: there, you can't think straight.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone who's been in a 10, 12, 15-year-long relationship, when you leave that, like, your attachment system's being actively rewired, everything is, your reality is changing so rapidly that you can't think straight and I didn't have perspective.
[SPEAKER_01]: I won't speak from that, but I'm sure his perspective, he probably thinks, was different than as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I kind of give myself some grace for it too, or I'm kind of like, okay, well, fuck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoops.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in a way, it's just going to be a gorgeous chapter or chunk of your memoir, and I think what my goal for this interview for this moment between us, what I would like to impart to you is that sure it's a part of the story, but I hope that you know that so much of that marriage and like public Instagram.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably this presence was well, it was you guys really did have something so special And I think that's partly why created a certain a perfect storm of the reaction is because people who were deeply invested to start felt affected by it and then it breached containment as they say and then it got into all these people who have no idea who you were from the jump
[SPEAKER_00]: putting on their own messaging on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the biggest biggest thing is that it happened because people care about you too because you build something that special in that big and so like it's not a random that I felt so star struck by meeting you in Matt.
[SPEAKER_00]: on the Street in New Orleans in 2018 and now we're here eight years later with you know talking about all this lords because it was so special and I myself am in a long-term marriage and you know Matt loves when I say this but have we had moments where I was like we're not going to make it of course and it's like no one knows what is happening in a long-term relationship unless you're in it and I think you both dealt with the great in a beautiful you both dealt
[SPEAKER_00]: people magazine reported on the breakup, which is so fucking insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: But also, it brings up the question of probably this as a handle, as a product.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is the status on probably this as an account?
[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen that you've been posting a bit less.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's going on with that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, so famously another part of the video that was the problem was that, you know, Matt and I had this Instagram and TikTok and we had this thing, we built these big audience on and
[SPEAKER_01]: We went to go post about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were like, okay, we'll also, like, we're separating the babies in the divorce and so like Matt got the TikTok.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got the Instagram and people were so grossed out by that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which also, we had been in talks about this for like, many months at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: We did not decide that morning.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were breaking up and splitting everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were like, hey guys, welcome to my blog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, no, like, which was like, we kind of like had our own agenda and I had my agenda, whatever, like, anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the big things in the video was that we had split the accounts, and that immediately changed the one the TikTok to handle to his name, which was smart, and I Kind of like couldn't do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I feel weird like changing this thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was a kind of avoiding it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um,
[SPEAKER_01]: But I am changing the handle to my, uh, my name, both, you know, just because it's time to retire it like that brand was something we built together.
[SPEAKER_01]: It has, I thought maybe it was not feeling we'd be reposting on it, but it never really stopped feeling weird posting without that and.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and so it's just time for a new chapter and I think that like every, um, every story has its end and like I'm, I'm ready for that story to end and, and for what's next.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lovely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Beautifully said.
[SPEAKER_00]: The final question about that topic is, I think people are probably interested in how well you both navigated that breakup.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really loved how much Matt advocated for you while people were sitting on you from the video.
[SPEAKER_00]: something that you're hoping for like a distance to friendship or I'm just kind of curious after sharing that many memories with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are we manifesting?
[SPEAKER_01]: Matt is one of the most incredible people.
[SPEAKER_01]: anyone could ever have as a friend or a partner.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say he taught me how to love.
[SPEAKER_01]: He held me through so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: He allowed me to see how I love like he's
[SPEAKER_01]: His intentions are remarkably pure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I used to get very worried in the relationship because I incorrectly saw him as so soft.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not that he's soft.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's that he is just very pure.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he also can have a thick skin when he needs it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he's a well-rounded person.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't get worried for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm like, you're too nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to fuck you over.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will never not think of him as like, you know, at this point has been the love of my life, my forever be the greatest love of my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there were reasons that are personal to us for the end of the relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: But
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, and we were kind of the separation was slow, um, not to get into it too much, but we kind of like it was a very slow process.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at this point, we are friends who, do we go and get dinner one on one?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but we have a lot of mutual friends, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: last week I saw him at dinner with her friend and then we were out together like we have a very like cordial relationship and and also like talk and like our moms or friends they got lunch together last week like it's tough you know like this stuff if you're able to like
[SPEAKER_01]: to sit with this comfort and and be healthy, this stuff does not need to be so dramatic, which is funny to say considering how it all went online, but you can have a relationship end with love and respect in a lot of cases, not every case.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to think that we've done that to the best that we're both capable of.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm giving you snaps and I think people in the comment should snap towards Matt and Beau as just how to take away the drama and think about, you know, people's intentions, which you and Matt clearly just wanted to be respectful and there for each other and it's clear that clear that you still are and again, I'm just very inspired by both of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for letting me ask about that and for being so beautifully open.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because this gay ass podcast main feed conversation is going to end in a moment before we go into Substack where I'm going to ask about some formative maybe hookups.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have been posting some eggplant content.
[SPEAKER_00]: The actual plant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our eggplant is a fruit or a vegetable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't talk down to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about the eggplant fruit.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll talk about all sorts of other close frenzy things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But before we do that, Boce Lino, I'm going to ask you the final podcast question, which is if the world was ended.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could only save one character actress.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who would you save?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is probably a quiet and unregional answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: However, I would probably go with if she counts Parker Posey because, of course, I would love to talk about, you know, best in show.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love to have all of her iconic moments, but we've already discussed how much I love pills and just her character and the white lotus.
[SPEAKER_01]: I...
[SPEAKER_01]: It's rare that we as, you know, as queer men get such perfect representation and for me specifically given my love of pharmaceuticals I just saw so much of myself and in her character in the light lotus and I would love to I mean wait is everyone dying or just to other actresses.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
[SPEAKER_01]: Hell yeah me and Parker we're getting some pills.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna lay in a blanket.
[SPEAKER_01]: We might have a little cuddle right has some tea You know, and then maybe we'll kill ourselves with the pills, but
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, um, I have to say Parker Posey has been coming up more and more and more.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's something going on in the uni, uh, but every time people say they have their own way into Parker Posey and your love of her love of pills in the white lotus is such a genius on tray and I
[SPEAKER_00]: could only dream of being high on pills with Parker Posey as everybody else's dead around us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shout out!
[SPEAKER_00]: We can only hope that whatever's happening in the world now just ends except for you in Parker Posey.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bo, will you please tell these stunning listeners before we had to sub-stack?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where to follow you?
[SPEAKER_00]: And if there's anything else you would love for them to know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, um, I know you'll put my, my links in the description.
[SPEAKER_01]: The, depending on your watching this, the Instagram's either at probably this or at both the Alino, um, it's in the middle of a, it's, you know, in the middle of its transition.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, um, the check the, the description for the links, um, and then on sub-stack, it's, um, both Felix is my name over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're right about.
[SPEAKER_01]: everything home and some personal essays as well and I really enjoy it newsletters go out every Wednesday for free and then there's some additional paid content if you would like to get that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Highly, highly recommend that you follow Bo on Instagram but also that sub-stack is just, the reason why sub-stack is a special place right now is because people like you are writing like just such genius essays and also super helpful when it comes to home to corn all of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, we've linked it in the description.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go follow Bo, whether it is probably this or Bo Celino, and now let's do sub-stack.
[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, everybody, thank you for following and subscribing to this sub-stack.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been really exciting to see it actually happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I...
[SPEAKER_00]: Not subscribing to capitalism, but I'm also subscribing to capitalism by being excited that I can almost fully quit my day job soon, which is why we are going to Ask about Bose dating life to get us into sub stack.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have been so open about life post divorce with Your relationship with Matt, but I think a lot of us are probably interested for someone going through a long term
[SPEAKER_00]: 12 year relationship and then being this like single hottest hell gay guy by the way, Bo.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hot is hell.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's all let's all applaud Bo's hottest hell face and bod.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's going on dating
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what, we are coming as we are and we are judging your aura and also thank you for your honesty same or what is there like an expectation versus the reality?
[SPEAKER_01]: What's happening?
[SPEAKER_01]: So you know following the end of my marriage and and that was a 12 year long relationship that I started when I was 19 to avoid the grief I and for many other reasons I jumped into something else immediately.
[SPEAKER_01]: immediately.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it worked.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a very avoidant person, but I think in this case, that's what I was doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And as happens when you are very, you know, in a vulnerable space and don't necessarily have the experience, I entered into a relationship that was like
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of textbook of the use of and uh... was really rough for the rest of the interview had to sub-stack linked below where you will also find chats with call-in-bron rich burns Christopher Patterson Rosso Tyler Varval Sebastian Dino Cody silver johnny siblings Sam Altizer and more it's at sub-stack.com slash at Eric Wills and I will see you there for a gorgeous Harry horny time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love you bye!