[SPEAKER_01]: This episode of True's Table is brought to you by our NAACP Image Award-nominated book, True's Table, Black Women's Musings on Life, Love, and Liberation.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Brothers, y'all all right?
[SPEAKER_00]: If this is your first time at True Stable, welcome to the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you've been sitting at the table with us all these years.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are so grateful that you have been listening to us through these years.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now pull up a chair and have a seat at the table with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey y'all, welcome to choose table midwives of Culture for Grace and Truth.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a Camini and I'm Christina.
[SPEAKER_00]: This table is built by Black woman and for Black women.
[SPEAKER_00]: So welcome to the table, see how you're doing there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing good, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll get this pink eyeshadow out on me.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ha ha ha come on Nicky double big listen you know shout out to Nicky Campbell you are the street summary and glamorous summer glamour is yeah it is give you some work on how are you today I'm good I'm glad to be back to the table with you look at us with our spin and chance listen my my chairs and studio update and you you know studio slash house
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, but I'm glad for these new ones, but they do give you a little rotation.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have to, we don't have to stay steady.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have to, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: They got to spin up in a bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got a little bit more liberty.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I do not.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't, you don't shut it down right here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, sometimes things, you know, they stay steady.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes things don't stay steady.
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes we have opinions about things, don't we?
[SPEAKER_02]: Which brings us to our topic for today, which is the community.
[SPEAKER_02]: This might give me canceled, but I mean, this might give me canceled, but it's so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: This could be stuff in the church out of the church, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just how like maybe a country of Russell Chagos just like in the world that we live.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that is a counter, how can I say counter culture or, you know, that goes against maybe a bit of the norm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wherever we happen to be, whether that's church or outside the church.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, like, this whole idea of counseling and counsel culture is a thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I was saying, like, you know, we should be proud to chat about that just a touch before.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We even get into our list of things that might get us canceled.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't care.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does help you to speak your mind if you're not completely burdened down.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're not beholden, I listen to a song called, God don't cancel me.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think it's Rudy Carrent's.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, we'll put it in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, I mean, he's saying he's saying this face off.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, he's saying this face off.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it did make me think more and more about just what it means to cancel people.
[SPEAKER_02]: And
[SPEAKER_02]: our tolerance for each other, you know, I mean, if something's where I feel like you should, so let me let me be clear.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that people should be canceled in their humanity.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: People should get accused from their service or their ideas that are not just simply different than mine, but are destructive.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or they're seasoned in English.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's hard for people sometimes to hold patients for people.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's a self-compassion issue, like a lack of self-compassion means that you just cannot be compassionate towards others.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if somebody got a cancel culture over the last decade, I think it has just been about the inability to be able to sit with different, explain your own case, why you believe what you believe.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a skill.
[SPEAKER_02]: You got to know what you believe and do then, and but our polarization is really feeding on the fact that we just cut people very quickly, you know, and I'm not talking about people that are abusive and dangerous, I mean, we healthy boundaries, but but I do think it's it's interesting now because, you know, you can get canceled for anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it just depends on who picks it up and what comes viral and what's the thing, you know, that week that is bothering whoever it's bothering.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know, what did you first start hearing with or cancel culture got on your radar?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was about 10 years ago as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that timeline is right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the, I think, you know, holding disagreement, I think is important.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that we have to, I think that's part and part of what we're called to as good as it is to don't we live in tension.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like you know what I mean, we don't have all the answers.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, we live we live in tension.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know what I mean, that that should be parfor the course, you know, for the Christian, you know, we're living already, not yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus is 100% man 100% God, like you know, there's this wow, I complex and paradoxical faith.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I won that three persons.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really, I mean, that's a lot of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's a lot of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not very difficult.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so these paradoxes, these tensions, like, oh, OK.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then I think about the differences, you know, but yeah, friends, family co-workers, all the things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And those delo Americans.
[SPEAKER_00]: And difference is fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: As long as it's not rooted in
[SPEAKER_00]: the dehumanization of some money and their personhood and what not I think that's where it's like wait a minute now we got to now we got to talk about possibly part of ways right because you don't think I'm human yes like you're reporting to the proper authority yeah reporting or you or you support death dealing
[SPEAKER_00]: politicians and politicians that have real material consequences and you support them for those reasons.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, because they're people who I think find themselves having a political allegiance to something they don't fully understand because propaganda is real.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think there are enough people to the tune of millions.
[SPEAKER_02]: who are not mistaken.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like their support is attached to people precisely because of you do do human as a deaf dealing policies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think for me that's a line that I draw and had to draw with some people as a
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, and I always said the do I at least for me, like I just even risen, I had to tell the doctor, the door is open when you're in ounce.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: The wicked cult, you've subscribed to when you repent, you know what I mean for for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right now, I cannot be in fellowship with you until there's, we agree that it's calling somebody, you know, and do you
[SPEAKER_00]: and anti-gospels.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got, you got a gruel.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to come to a gruel, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I just adds a Christian.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're not a Christian, I have a completely different.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there are a reason why people part ways that are in, that are still in the faith.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it doesn't mean like, you person's not a Christian, but I mean, there's precedent.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, there is absolutely precedent for, um, and obviously the goal is for there to be unity and walk.
[SPEAKER_01]: And rest of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying this is a good thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm saying that it is something that happens, you know, um, you know, we, we spent some time recently with some folks picking up a kind of canceling where we had asked some folks some questions about denominations.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this comes to my, yes, because my there was some strong reactions to the idea of did not like the effect of their art Christian denominations, he will have really certainly will have really strong reactions to that and there are some churches who see themselves as like the church like we are the church and all these other things are like all shoots.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he mixes or extensions of whatever the real thing you're supposed to be, but I often think of denominations potentially as an opportunity to continue to walk together in our differences, people think of it like only as a split, but I'm like, sometimes it is it is actually the best attempt to say, yeah, we're not going to be able to whole space in the same way, because we see this differently, but it doesn't mean that we're not still under the same umbrella, the same banner of Christ.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we feel compelled to walk in this way, in this direction.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think, sometimes, a separation or a difference or distinction doesn't have to be ugly.
[SPEAKER_02]: It could just be clarifying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just like an example of that as obviously, say, Baptist Church, I believe you baptize, that's a person can actually confess.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, confessing and profess their faith.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, in Jesus Christ, whereas Lutherans, Methodists, Catholics, Episcopal Catholics, Presbyterians and Presbyterians, not Baptists.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, oh, yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_00]: like the logical difference, still still Christian, but they just, this is a different way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: A practicing, you know, and that's a, I mean, it's a big deal, but bigger deals for bigger traditions.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, it is, it is reason to your point to say, like, okay, we, we hold this so tightly.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is, it is a part of the distinction of our identity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so yeah, that's what we mean by cancel.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to think if there's anything else that,
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I guess in that canceling means that they're kind of shunned, like what does it actually look like?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah, how cast they're shunned.
[SPEAKER_00]: They got a scarlet letter.
[SPEAKER_02]: Honey, really?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, they go, they go cancel, see, on you, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and don't, you know, you don't mess with them and stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny how that works, don't mind how patriarchy pops out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember many years ago,
[SPEAKER_00]: with T1, you know, the first regime, and I remember when Chris said Michelle, you know, to some, you know, was invited, I think to perform with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe she actually did do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, but then now on T2, you have Nelly Snoop, you know, sweetheart, and all these that were in, and they did have backlash, but not to the same degree.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's Chris said Michelle.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, be a black woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did that, you know, and so, and just not having grades there, you know, and you know, you know, you at least, you know, for her.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's so weird that people do for their favorite rappers, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and so that's just a paper tree, a human testing and massage and we're showing up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and, and so it doesn't, it doesn't always balance out this thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, even Kanye, he's been canceled, re-brotting canceled, you know, say it just doesn't always shake out the same way from men and maybe particular, you know, yeah, man.
[SPEAKER_02]: And also depending on what the what the what the perceived talent is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: And how unique it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I dare I not say a particular name associated with an
[SPEAKER_02]: But.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, gosh.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't watch you to cause both.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, but I think yeah, I think that people could.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't get the same level of critique if we are deeply entertained by them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Their social and political stance or their lack of their own social and political stance, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Really, obscene.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it depends on what's happening in that particular season, what people find obscene or offensive, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and then, yeah, and then you have people who, you know, just take it to our sphere in the faith world who say and do things that really require
[SPEAKER_02]: public repentance.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would make the case because it was public offense.
[SPEAKER_02]: And depending on who it is, it's just like, oh, we keep it moving.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think our hope today is to despite how serious the type of year that we've entered in.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really to talk about the things that we know people may not like, may not agree with us on.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, maybe you're going cancel me, but, and to really kind of lay out some of the things that we just want it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to get off our chest largely humorous, but maybe also serious.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, kind of places where we stand or things that we're like, no, I'm not going to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or I don't know why the people are doing that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And kind of go on record with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, Kim, do you want to kick us off that you might get canceled, but
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't think I'm thinking I can cancel it on this, but you might be like, I mean, it's been a long time I haven't seen this, but I am not, at least this minus churchy, this one is my ministry is not my jam.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do not like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never liked it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You said mine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, my.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're not doing it, it's very, it's very much a plan with these minds.
[SPEAKER_00]: His black church code was like, you know what I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't get it, you know what I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you know, it really is a, if you know, you know, you know, if you don't, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you might get canceled, but you are not feeling my ministry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just, I've never understood it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't get it, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that gets for me because I was like,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, back when I, you know, I got saved when I was in like LA living, you know, living LA at that time and I remember crumping was a big thing and maybe I just still a big thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was, and they were where, sometimes they were where this kind of, I don't know, but it come out and be crumpless.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this, this, uh, clown makeup like Tommy the clown, this is whole, you know, some culture.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're LA and so I'm like, okay, so there was that whole thing going on and then, you know, within the church.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, my main predates, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, but there's the white face, you know, that they put on the makeup and it's just like an end of the ring of the white kind of like choir room or gown, you know, and the white talk.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the gloves, every Emma's whole thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a whole call.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a miniature.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, people, some people are really ministered to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, I am very confused.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, they just never, it's just, it's always gone over my head.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've always been like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Why is this happening?
[SPEAKER_00]: What is the one I don't know the origin of I don't know what the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the origin of the
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well over ten years.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, somebody I used to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this in particular, the nomination, you know, is already even non-denom, maybe more panic hostile, you know, um, I don't do bad just to keep my eye.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my, in my chapter says, I don't see.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, okay, so it is among the Baptist, okay, and not, okay, God, I'm sorry, where does it just, just live alone?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's all depends upon, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, what got a great light from the history of our God.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't
[SPEAKER_02]: typically has more men, that participates or boys, which it's made in mind, and more girls participate in the surgical dance.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's supposed to be a track for dramatic and creative expression for boys and men, whereas the surgical dance typically
[SPEAKER_02]: is all female.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's like, let's one insight I have learned from the from the teaching drawn time too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's usually guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: It really is usually guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, it's a huge them in the life of the the church sort of about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen, you're now something something.
[SPEAKER_00]: I used to see my face of confusion.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm literally there in China still.
[SPEAKER_02]: Listen for me, I don't think it's the mine.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm with you on this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not, you know, I
[SPEAKER_02]: I understand.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's so much the art of mimeing like the, you know, you know, it's not it's not so much that as it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: the paint.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the painting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so confused.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're walking around like the.
[SPEAKER_00]: It goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm confused.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there was a season.
[SPEAKER_02]: Apparently, where there was a cloud ministry.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, there are churches who did cloud ministry.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I remember once, to tell you, this is how you cancel and you offend people when you just talk when you just talk in, you know, because I talked because I mentioned online once how I don't like clowns, you know, first of all, I don't like people don't like clowns, I don't like people who don't who achly about who they really are so I don't like mass.
[SPEAKER_02]: literally or metaphorically be who you really actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't try to trick nobody.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I got to think about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was just mentioning off-hand online just you know talking talking, you know I don't like clowns.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really trust clowns.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's a guy who was following me online very nice, man He's like, I'm talking to Clint No, no, we're talking to clowns worse than that his father is late beloved father
[SPEAKER_02]: had a clown ministry and he put a picture there.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was like, this is my father.
[SPEAKER_02]: And no, no, I was like, oh, you know, he really love his dad.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure he's a lovely man.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was still afraid.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, why is he a clown in the church?
[SPEAKER_00]: Dad is scary.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just said, thank you for sharing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I realized that I had to.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had struck a chord there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't mean to offend the family lineage, but I really was like, y'all.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm with you, like, the mom and the clown thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's a thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I don't think I knew about clown ministry, but okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I could see that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, mommy to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not too far.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's always been.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not it for me, but yeah, please feel free to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, tell us, you know, the origins.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is just speak back to us.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: I might get canceled, but, you know, I don't like men's choirs.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now here's the thing, I have heard in my life.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't seem too much, a couple, a couple of exceptions to this, a couple.
[SPEAKER_02]: They include, like, I don't know, like the boy's choir of Harlem.
[SPEAKER_02]: It has to be like exceptional.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or I went to a church many years ago that had like an outstanding worship team.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I say outstanding, you know, I'm like, all this level of excellence in music, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Outstanding worship team.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they formed a men's day choir and it was exceptional.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they like, they like whipped them into shape.
[SPEAKER_02]: because even my husband was a participant, he's not, he's saying, he's not a singer, you know what I'm saying like myself.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, but they got them together.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they selected songs that were like the perfect fit for the male vocal range, all the things.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, when they have like men's day, sometimes tradition, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You have like a men's day or whatever, whatever the holiday or whatever might be.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they just put a bunch of, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: They just feel like just one note saying to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you know intentional, it's kind of flat, like vocally.
[SPEAKER_01]: And
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it needs to be excellent.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you are going to have to find some high tenors.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're going to have to have some range, and men can have great range, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But oftentimes when I experience them, it usually is, they sound tired.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm, they sound tired.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I don't save your letters in your text messages and your emails, okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: I might get canceled, but,
[SPEAKER_02]: Y'all need to get the men's choirs together.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm more intentional.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're more intentional.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think it could be because there's not as many men in there?
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're just like men.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got to bring men's choirs with 10 and 100 people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying now a day.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying, so they're like, okay, let's just get as many men as we can get.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got to get work where we got.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they can't be as intentional?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: In particular, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do know that whatever you do,
[SPEAKER_02]: do it with excellence in the house.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we do have to do things with every industry.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the person who's been to churches that are like, store front churches with a very limited budget.
[SPEAKER_01]: And before you leave this, before you leave this Sunday, we got to make sure we hit the giving amount and order to keep the lights on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been to churches like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had been to also, I was raised in a mega church.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I know the contrast of budget lines and resources.
[SPEAKER_02]: I care about, are you bringing your best to the house, hold a faith?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, that's, that's it, that's how I feel about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have a beef with men's cry, but points for men.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just need to be great.
[SPEAKER_02]: They need to be excellent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go into a bag.
[SPEAKER_00]: They need to be excellent.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we probably could think of some more.
[SPEAKER_02]: We can, oh yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: We can press pause and take a little bit more risk when we come back after this break.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We might get canceled, but.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our NAACP Image Award-nominated book, Truth Table, Black Women's Musings on Life, Love, and Liberation is making waves and shifting culture.
[SPEAKER_01]: I close this book feeling like I had just partaken in a multi-course meal, filled with grace and the courage to carry on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I believe you'll finish this book feeling the same way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Morgan Harper Nichols, Artists and Poet.
[SPEAKER_01]: at our website, or wherever books are sold.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we are back at the table, and we are over here talking about, I might get canceled, but.
[SPEAKER_00]: And some of them, maybe the stuff you don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't know, because I don't know, but we've been talking about our our concerns and questions and curiosity about things like
[SPEAKER_02]: on excellent.
[SPEAKER_02]: In excellent.
[SPEAKER_02]: Men's choirs so far.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But let's go a little bit deeper.
[SPEAKER_02]: What else do you have on your list where you are?
[SPEAKER_02]: You might get canceled.
[SPEAKER_02]: But.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it was deeper, I don't know if it's deeper, but another level, I think you all might know this, but I do not, you know, in my family council, people do not play about their pets, but I do not do dogs, I do not like dogs, I have never liked dogs, all right, P jack.
[SPEAKER_01]: Best in peace.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't like it so we had to understand and this is just seen as legal jack was so so I don't know how to respect black women.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was very right right right right There are particular dogs that have been socialized in black homes
[SPEAKER_00]: and I like to call black dogs and so they're like, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not, they're
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Patrick remembers, Jay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did a little a bad joke.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jack knew what you were doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jack's on the interview.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shout out to Patrick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Patrick is on the video.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be like, Hey, Jen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, but I do not.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do not do not bring your dog around me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: My dog so friendly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know he was a Bapapun.
[SPEAKER_02]: People who try to get like a letter of reference for the dog and I'm like, oh, this friendly to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It actually like doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're in animal.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have no get you really don't know how they're going to respond to everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you just don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then also like when people just don't have good him.
[SPEAKER_00]: How can I say, um, dog or or pet owner etiquette and that like keeping your pet on a lease?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm out in the park walking for my exercise when I get back home to my mom's house.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have had a lease twice where people had their dogs roaming free and that dog changed me and I was like,
[SPEAKER_00]: And Emilie transported back to my childhood trauma surrounding a dog that ran into her dog cannot chase me Desk why it is the morning.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am just yeah, my defaults in parties that you taste this is you don't
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's not who you never use it and a little so I got my reasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I got my reasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's about I'm really just not an animal person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we can't have a castle kind of leaving a little but I'm not a cat person.
[SPEAKER_00]: You really not a gentleman.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm just not an animal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot relax.
[SPEAKER_00]: in an environment where there's an animal for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the fish and the fish hang out is different.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at all, but I can't, I cannot relax in an environment where there is an animal that's roaming and I'm a bit of a drummer folks and I'm like, oh my god, they're here, they're la la.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a whole thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just on the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that is a no for me now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now that could get me cancer because people will treat their pets like children and so that's really a serious thing for folks.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not judging that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just I cannot relate.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would like to be excluded completely.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a nightmare scenario.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we do know yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that that from it's not my thing not a dog person and you listen and that's that's also like when I was only dating us and I would see guys with their dogs and I was like, oh well, this is not going to work.
[SPEAKER_02]: God, there's people are really serious about their family.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're not going to... Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And by-law, they're probably not going to use another person over their dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: You take us, or you don't take me at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll take it, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a,
[SPEAKER_01]: There are strengths to pet owners.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there are strengths to like men pet owners.
[SPEAKER_02]: Men, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[SPEAKER_02]: I get why people have dogs and I get why they love them as a person who I get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really do who inherited a dog.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and who would never get my own dog.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and still would not.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I mean, I get like the the fight of love.
[SPEAKER_02]: I get it, but you and you are right though.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't trust cats.
[SPEAKER_02]: you do me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't trust me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, I just think cats don't want to be your pet.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I actually have a deep, so you can't tell me if you won't.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just think that every cat don't want to.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just feel like every cat owner I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: thinks that their cat loves them more than their cat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually loves them.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm just like, I don't even know if I think your cat can love you like this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that your cat is like, just waiting for you to slip up one day.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I just, I just feel like,
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think all of these things are rooted in traumas, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
[SPEAKER_02]: but anyway, but even before then, I remember like watching like a movie called Cat eyes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Does that look like a seeding king movie?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yes, there was a seeding king.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what's called Cat eyes, but there was a seeding king man.
[SPEAKER_02]: He messes you up for generation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was in 90s.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wait, he had a very serious.
[SPEAKER_00]: hold on the dinner.
[SPEAKER_00]: He did.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had a shook.
[SPEAKER_02]: He had a shook.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had a shook.
[SPEAKER_02]: He had a shook.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had a shook.
[SPEAKER_02]: He had a shook.
[SPEAKER_01]: He had a shook.
[SPEAKER_01]: He had a
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it also I think people with pets are like, they're like evangelists for their pets.
[SPEAKER_02]: You like to your point, like they give the resume of like, oh my dog is so peaceful.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're like, we're not mad at them.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, or, you know, or they're like, you know, when you want, when you like why, you know, like to have an animal that roams in your house.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just, you know, I had some, two of my best friends when I was in high school, I was just sharing
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_02]: it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're an interesting tandem.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they love their favorites.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they were like walk around with them and I was like, oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't just did not.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I had like pet golfish.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they died.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_02]: We can have a pet golfish.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they did not make it very long.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: All that to say, I mean, I don't know if you want to say cat cats are my, you know, I might get canceled, but that is, I don't know if that's, yeah, that's not what, okay, what is yours, you know what I am now officially in my, so you know, I come out of the world social sciences, I get respected, I get the critiques of respectability politics.
[SPEAKER_02]: can tell you all about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I get all the things about people's own creative liberty and how they show up in the world and the music and exercising their freedom and creativity and not being bound by patriarchal, white supremacist standards.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I can't, I got to, I feel like we're gonna need like a little sweet though.
[SPEAKER_02]: of like boundaryed respect, debility again.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a little concerned about that part of it is that I think freedom.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're so respect.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so freedom from like the American perspective is not what I'm talking about when I think about like self agency and freedom.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the Christians have a very, like I believe Christians are called to a very different sense of what it is to be free then just like I'm free to do whatever I want because I think this like I do whatever I won't and if you don't let me do whatever I want then you are like I don't know a part of the system or your agent of the man.
[SPEAKER_02]: like suppressing me, you can counsel me on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that we have got to have some, you have to have some type of social norm and etiquette.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is not whiteness.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you don't have a standard or perception of what it means to demonstrate respect.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, kindness was self restraint.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not putting that on that being a white thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: One, that's super difficult.
[SPEAKER_01]: Super duper internalized racism, but as if black people don't have significant standards of etiquette and social norms within their cultural context, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a long-winded way of saying, like, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree with India Irene, we need your voice about to say it's been that we I mean what's what's happening right now We can't have some on so about scamming The American they in version of our top yadala Yeah, I'm not I'm not a fan of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's where I am on that
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and you say, what do you want to say?
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not that it's not again, people can people can communicate and express their social location.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like value, but there has to be a place where like values of like self control agency kindness.
[SPEAKER_02]: Self respect integrity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Self respect.
[SPEAKER_02]: These end point things, you know, so, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, so it's not, it's not, it's not, I mean, respectability in the sense of contouring yourself to the norms and permissions of white supremacy.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's respectability textbook.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this standard of like self respect and self control,
[SPEAKER_02]: because it matters, yeah, I'm on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I'm with you on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bring it back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we, we don't, everybody goes, oh, we only bring this up when it's a woman and not a man that does it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, I don't want to say it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to say it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to say it.
[SPEAKER_00]: For me personally, you know, I got a problem with all of it personally.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's just
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, and there's been a lot of talk in the reels and breaks down of how the industry has changed so much and there's no balance right where you used to have conscious rap, conscious music.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's just to have it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was that's been by design and one of the many tools that I'm using to try to.
[SPEAKER_00]: cause all manner of disarray really in our community and self-destruction, that's actually what they're aiming for, and so for me I just, there's no balance, there's no, we did have options, I was saying, you know, in the 90s, where there was, you know, there was some folks you listened to, that you could, that cabalance and out, you know, balance, they like to look through.
[SPEAKER_02]: versus like what you're gonna me yeah, you know, I mean she would have both of those entities That were the same time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know versus souls of mission versus I mean there was a lot of folks that you could try that You know, you can listen to common, you know, so back again now now what's the list?
[SPEAKER_00]: Crickets?
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not going to get amplification.
[SPEAKER_02]: So those artists absolutely exist.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just that they're not going to get mainstream amplification.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know who they are right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I just don't know who they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though I'm like, I don't even know who they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even when Kamu is underground for a long time, like for example, but you know, he's underground.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't even know who is underground.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, right now that they're only their prime just doing what I'm saying is only like their niche community because unless you are checking the boxes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, of messaging that media wants to put out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, some might not be chance, but I was like, I don't just, I see something differently.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, but he's also mainstream.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's also well.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's mainstream now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just trying to think I was like, well, who else?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you would know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, my point is that you wouldn't know them because you're not going to know them unless you are connected to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: in that particular city or locate that underground music scene, which is, which is unfortunate because it's not like we have, we don't have a limit of just thinking on how much of a if someone could say something that's good and helpful.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we have an abundance of creativity in wisdom.
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe we have the things, but we don't have the application, like what it would take for that voice to come on the radio, but the radio as though people
[SPEAKER_02]: But like yeah, I don't think that's the game play.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: There was, yeah, yeah, that's a whole thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lord help us.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, yeah, that whole, I'm not like, and the gas lighting around what India says, I was like, y'all not going gaslight us, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not, this is not going to raise the conscious level of the, of
[SPEAKER_02]: people, it's not going to help us, but that is not going to help us, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: In any way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I see people now at this point try to bring forward like sociological critiques, like to say like all this song really speaks to like alternative economics and it's a funds and that this is a, yeah, we just said a different place on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're a different place.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm very comfortable with where I am.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm going to shift on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just not going to
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was y'all doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why I'm doing it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I do think there shouldn't be billionaires.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do think that we are in economic crisis.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do think that there should not be billionaires.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do think that capitalism requires ideas and practices of domination.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I mean, all this is wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I am not going to be having a song planned and influences Black girls that I raise about, you know what's a good idea?
[SPEAKER_02]: You should shop, live.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what happens when you get arrested?
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a mother and daughter team that got arrested for boosted and doing all that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And coming on social media and bragging and showing all the things that they boosted to the song.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, come on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, people will say it's well, that's on them because
[SPEAKER_02]: Nobody is influenced by music this.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like the argument around like video games.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, no, people absolutely are influenced by media.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, what was our thought to think that what you take in and experience here, what you eat, what you listen to, does not shape you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Why would you think that doesn't make sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm interested.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm with you on that one because I was definitely going to be mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree with you, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, come on, India.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am not by hair, are you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, this is, and she has put in consistent receipts of just a sense of music that supports self-awareness and self-love.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, yeah, you can cancel if you want.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think turning on people who tell you the truth.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can cancel me for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is absolutely ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because the response is like, this, you know, this is basic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Grandma was in the right way.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, we just see the manifesto people hating wisdom.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, with them cries aloud.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And no cries out and people ignore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's sports at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: They ignore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gas like, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: They can matter her instead of turning out I had to work the pretty much.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so how about you?
[SPEAKER_00]: What, my guess you can't solve, but I think there is this big trend, this whole maxing trend, everything fiber maxing, so taking your good amount of fiber, beauty, maxing, all you just can do is explain that, maxing thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's the people don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I'm not, it's like just take, take time to generation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me tell you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, all right, you're done that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'll tell you how they're about to deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: So okay, I'm really, but it's just like where you're just like, you know, um, this optimization culture whole okay fiber mixing we know we have to get our fiber goals in which is not a bad thing that's sure and you some people say 25 grams of fiber in some say I guess 32 something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I ain't a lot of produce and stuff so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Flaxseed, you know, I am that kind of, you know, person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I get my goals in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll say I didn't know this is fiber maxing, but okay, I know that you don't or beauty maxing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you'll do a whole bunch of 10 step skincare routine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which so this is all I'm very it's a whole thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yes, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it actually means money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, but sometimes I include say like bow talks or doing all types of like maybe some sort of cosmetic, you know, work to kind of, you know, maximize.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also for your body, like people going and getting like peptides, like injections and stuff to make their body look, you know, to maximize, you know, I don't know, maybe they call that body maxing, I don't know, I'm assuming, what?
[SPEAKER_00]: And all these things, you know, and I'm just like y'all.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we have to be careful about what we're putting into our body.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Beyond, this might get me canceled.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your schedule vaccines, so you should get, you know, for your children and whatnot, when they're born, all of those, are we scheduled?
[SPEAKER_02]: Are they still anti-vaccine out here?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, that, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so getting your schedule vaccines, we're seeing the consequences of not happening with Lisa's coming back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Beyond that, I am always going to be leary of putting injecting Botox of injecting peptides, all these types of things that we don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: What the actual adventure or the long-term effects could be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Both talked on the market for some time now, so maybe that's why I don't know for me, I'm not doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't trust God.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna drink college.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we don't drink lots of water.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do believe drinking that college.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna wash your off.
[SPEAKER_02]: They got me some in so now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, drink your college.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna wash your off.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna use my KBD products.
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen, hello shout out Korean.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they got that on live.
[SPEAKER_00]: They come out.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're with the products.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't
[SPEAKER_00]: like shout out to Costco for stocking KBB products.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm I'm I'm I'm think I'm a late comer to K Beauty for hey it's been clutch has been holding me down.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think that there is a beauty in aging.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is it's a gift.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's such a gift to to age.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I lost my dad when he was in his mid 40s that so from me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every year is a blessing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've always known that from as a young girl, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just to me, I'm like, what do we lose, you know, when we
[SPEAKER_00]: when we don't embrace the different seasons over it and when we don't embrace God's grace given to us through aging.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do we communicate in a younger generation to our children?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we change our nose.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when we, how can I say, when we try to change and alter, you know, our hair to such a point.
[SPEAKER_00]: that you know, I'm just listening, you know, we did the, we did the wig episodes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not against like changing your hair here and there, but what do we communicating now, you know, you know, it's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's what are we communicating to other people about ourselves when we don't when we have an aversion.
[SPEAKER_00]: to embracing ourselves as we are, even even time to recognize ourselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even, yeah, and you can't recognize yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there are people that have gotten so much work done, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were caught, I feel like the black folks were the last holdout, holdouts on plastic surgery, cosmetic reconstruction, and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like we were the last holdouts, but the last couple of years, I've been saying, wow, everybody's got that, I mean, there's no offense, but they kind of call it the Michael Jackson, those.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just like, and it kind of didn't know that I looked the same a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I was like, well, yeah, I am noticing that that change and I was like, yeah, what does that I don't know it makes me like it's a little sad, you know, it's not it's not really judgment.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just more of a reflection of I am noticing, you know, that or the like I just saw, I remember I think I told you last weekend, I just saw like saw like just the
[SPEAKER_00]: The crazy is like BBL and that it just looks so disproportionate, you know, so the woman's body, it just seems so painful to be honest, and it was so hot, right in a heat fantasy porn culture.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: That has taken such a toll on what people think, how they're supposed to live, and how they're supposed to look and how they're supposed to show up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now that style is out now, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like, oh, yeah, I don't know, and it's my, and that's probably for that reason why I told you I was I think I want to give my brows Michael, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I believe in eyebrows.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do, but I, yeah, I'm just don't, I'm just throwing out an exam.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, just when we were talking about little less than this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, I'll have to.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, but I just, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It gets so bad just for some sadness of, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, but you read for the wake up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Create a new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, whether or not people want to access those privileges.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to be secure enough to not access the privileges.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, to like reject the privileges.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, and and also to your point, a whole lot of self love, you know, and that's a jerk that you have to work.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the word.
[SPEAKER_00]: people that is you don't have it you'll keep going you will keep you will keep a judge and you will keep going on and like you will keep I'm just saying like if and and and they people that get started they talk about all the job it's just they're never you know they never reach the goal right they're never satisfied that go the goal post keeps moving he's changing you know because it's like you're you're the way you see yourself is a bit warped
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I was like, no, you're quite sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know when we were back at pictures of ourselves, we were done by the audience.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you look back at your life.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, wow, I look great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be a little too thin and now you're in that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I got a little bit too much and so you can't we should we struggle to see ourselves in the present in the real time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, in real time, well, and having a proper assessment of the present moment, receiving it for what it is, it has a heart of mindfulness, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it's a heart of contentment.
[SPEAKER_02]: is to be, contentment is not delusioned like you take stock of what actually is, but you accept it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is contentment.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it doesn't restrict you from dreaming or from, you know, pursuing or ambition.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there really is a piece that comes, I think, from that, to being able to name what it is in the moment, name who you are, what it is in the moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: and to just accept it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Acceptances isn't like a moral acceptance.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is just like this is what it's here, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and maybe that's controversial.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe the idea of taking stock of what you have and being able to be present in the present moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe that can get you canceled.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: In the world that we live in, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're, well, I, I, I hope that people enjoy listening in and I hope that they are inspired.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let us to share, you know, that they might get canceled, but I'm going to say it anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: What would they say?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we want to know, let us know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, wait, you know, I might get canceled, but, you know, let us know, you know, definitely, let us know on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, all the things, send your comments.
[SPEAKER_00]: We want to know what controversial.
[SPEAKER_00]: How would that work?
[SPEAKER_00]: Controvers you point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Controvers somebody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, viewpoint that you have.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or what you think about the ones that we share?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let us know about that too, you know, but we don't care, and I'm sure that's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's slightly my idea, but you know, but anyway, y'all, y'all, and it's no, of course, follow Tuesday, but on Instagram, Facebook, and of course, listen on your favorite podcast, but you're watching it on YouTube.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our executive producers aren't well, Christina, and Masa.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and our videographer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's Patrick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it was behind the scenes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Daniel Bradford is also a video editor and Joshua Heath is our audio editor.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so thank y'all for taking a seat with us at True Table.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you soon on the next episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.