[UNKNOWN]: Hey everybody David here wanted to hop on real quick before we get into the episode proper.
[UNKNOWN]: I've been suffering from a little bit of the summer cold that has been going around and I'm pretty much over it except I have this lingering dry chest cough and it's driving me crazy and whenever I talk,
[UNKNOWN]: I get a little coughing attack.
[UNKNOWN]: And so, Jean and I were recording last night and we just had to call it.
[UNKNOWN]: I was kind of exhausted from all the coughing and I had so many markers for the editing process.
[UNKNOWN]: It was kind of crazy.
[UNKNOWN]: So, and my brain was a little cooked to just from being tired and just all the things, right?
[UNKNOWN]: You know, just life in general.
[UNKNOWN]: So we took a little break.
[UNKNOWN]: I got a good night's sleep.
[UNKNOWN]: I got some cough suppressant stuff from the drug store this morning.
[UNKNOWN]: So we're going to pick it up where we left off.
[UNKNOWN]: We'll call that out in the episode.
[UNKNOWN]: But I think I got all of the coughs out of the edit.
[UNKNOWN]: So if you hear anything, apologies, I might have missed a slight one here or there.
[UNKNOWN]: And hopefully I'll be in a little bit better.
[UNKNOWN]: frame of mind to have the remainder conversation with a genre for this.
[UNKNOWN]: So again, thanks for your patience, and I know this cold is going around a number of people have been talking about it, people in life, people in the discord.
[UNKNOWN]: So all as I can say is it's really annoying, and I can't wait till I'm rid of this thing.
[UNKNOWN]: And if you're dealing with it too, I hope you get through it relatively quickly as well.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, on to the episode.
[UNKNOWN]: Welcome to the lower hounds where your guides to the dance of dragons, and I'm your host, David, and I may be a frog, hibernating under the ice.
[UNKNOWN]: But with me today is a man who's living his best life under the sun is young.
[UNKNOWN]: And hello, I'm John, and what a wonderful day.
[UNKNOWN]: I think sometimes you wake up and you feel like you're walking on clouds.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, the sun is beaming.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, everything is right.
[UNKNOWN]: You just feel like the world is your oyster.
[UNKNOWN]: And nothing but pearls await you.
[UNKNOWN]: And this was one of those days, one of those mornings.
[UNKNOWN]: Incredible feeling.
[UNKNOWN]: He's a very different user, but absolutely your day and we're here for it.
[UNKNOWN]: And this is our coverage of episode six of season three of House of the Dragon, Faceless Men.
[UNKNOWN]: John, I'd like you to know that we've had a couple of people subscribe given our recent conversation.
[UNKNOWN]: So to our new neighbors.
[UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
[UNKNOWN]: Thank you so much to everyone who did and everyone who listens.
[UNKNOWN]: and everyone who engages, we appreciate it all.
[UNKNOWN]: And, you know, we're still here and we've still got things coming up.
[UNKNOWN]: So if you feel like this is your time and this is your shot, then we'd love to have your support.
[UNKNOWN]: Go to the link, tree in the show notes and you can subscribe.
[UNKNOWN]: Subscribe as long as you want, stick around for however it works and whatever level that works for you.
[UNKNOWN]: We've got plenty of bonus content for you, and it's, uh, you get some cool special flare on the discord, you get ad free episodes, ad free episodes, the sweet sound of no ads.
[UNKNOWN]: It's all good, and it all could be yours.
[UNKNOWN]: But anyway, enough of that, uh, John, how can they get a hold of us if they want you can always send us an email,
[UNKNOWN]: at thelohounds.com.
[UNKNOWN]: You can hit us on our discord for House of the Dragon, but also the many many other shows that we are engaging with and talking about and potting.
[UNKNOWN]: So, please, don't be afraid, send us a message, and we got, we already got messages in the queue as well, keep sending in, even after the feedback episode from last week.
[UNKNOWN]: So, see, it's easy, everyone.
[UNKNOWN]: It's fun, it's easy, your voice gets to be as part of the, not everyone's on the discord, right, chatting all the time.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: And, you know, we send out these podcasts out into the ether, and we have, we know who's listening.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, we don't know who's listening, but we know that you all are listening.
[UNKNOWN]: And this is your opportunity to reflect your thoughts back to the community.
[UNKNOWN]: We're just, we get to be a mirror for you and being a mirror for the community so that we get all nerd out and talk about the show that most of us are enjoying.
[UNKNOWN]: I think there's a few people out there that are nationally diesel a little bit, but we'll we'll talk about it Feedback and the weaker we're good for Thursday.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we can do Thursday.
[UNKNOWN]: Definitely okay
[UNKNOWN]: So sending your comments, lots of discussion already happening on the discord.
[UNKNOWN]: Nate and I, we're going back and forth today about Missaria and whether she really has the space in time to stand up a spine network in the amount of time that she had.
[UNKNOWN]: And we're just having a lot of fun kicking it around with.
[UNKNOWN]: And of course, everybody last night after the beginning of the episode, everybody is on the discord.
[UNKNOWN]: giving you the Leo pointing meme and the standing ovation of the Oscars and no, very, very happy for a genre.
[UNKNOWN]: Uh, genre, it is still hot, lower to hot to lower summer.
[UNKNOWN]: I caught the trailer for uh, lanterns last
[UNKNOWN]: And I think we're going to be covering the Elisa and I, we will be there and welcome to come aboard and I, you know, I owe Elisha a favor.
[UNKNOWN]: She covered for me for a couple of years in the show.
[UNKNOWN]: So I'm just going to have to repay.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, she's still coming.
[UNKNOWN]: That's not twisted arm.
[UNKNOWN]: No, right now that I saw that trailer last night.
[UNKNOWN]: No, you don't have to choose very hard.
[UNKNOWN]: Not at all.
[UNKNOWN]: So that looks like, you know, it's giving me
[UNKNOWN]: That same excited feeling that we we're talking about before the show that shell never be named again, remember how we were sort of excited for like a hero spy thing going down, get some knee ground, yes.
[UNKNOWN]: And this feels like maybe they took that lesson.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, maybe they took the lessons of Wonderman earlier this year.
[UNKNOWN]: And just made a good show.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, make a good show.
[UNKNOWN]: Make a good story.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, good story.
[UNKNOWN]: That said, I think we just finished up with Listot coverage, John and Alicia were covering that.
[UNKNOWN]: Alicia is deep in the silo.
[UNKNOWN]: She's many levels down her and Luke are going along.
[UNKNOWN]: And you've been watching the show last time.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, I just watched episode four.
[UNKNOWN]: So I'll be tuning in to the pod because I have questions.
[UNKNOWN]: Excellent.
[UNKNOWN]: That's what the pod's are for.
[UNKNOWN]: Odyssey coverage is coming super girl you guys out.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's really good this week.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, we all right.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's do that.
[UNKNOWN]: And there's lots more coming later this year.
[UNKNOWN]: So we're going to jump into today's episode.
[UNKNOWN]: It's mostly a timeline.
[UNKNOWN]: This was a really messy episode to break down.
[UNKNOWN]: There was just so many little scenes and so many little little mintous moments and I was like dang.
[UNKNOWN]: Like once I started to unpack it, I didn't realize how compressed it was.
[UNKNOWN]: So we're going to go mostly in linear order, but then there's going to be some times where we're going to compress couple two, three scenes and just sort of group some things together because it's easier to talk about it that way.
[UNKNOWN]: And so yeah, we'll record Thursday night and that feedback episode should be into your podcast players by Friday.
[UNKNOWN]: John, what did you think of episode six?
[UNKNOWN]: We are on the
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we have Tula right.
[UNKNOWN]: So that's you were right on the edge here of of you know whether they're going to give us a battle next episode or They're going to end us on eat with a battle hard to say but this one how did you feel about six how do you Yeah, you know after the opening scenes think the episode could have ended
[UNKNOWN]: Just turn off the TV right there.
[UNKNOWN]: I actually did you did?
[UNKNOWN]: I turned it off.
[UNKNOWN]: You did I just to save her the moment.
[UNKNOWN]: I stop watching now for so long
[UNKNOWN]: So the podcast is that we did it and I and I said that and I reveled in The awesomeness of like I just witnessed how long did you sit there?
[UNKNOWN]: It was like the ten minutes.
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, wow.
[UNKNOWN]: I sat with it then I had it on You know pause when I went back just so I could see It was it was amazing
[UNKNOWN]: It's amazing.
[UNKNOWN]: No, you do a little bit about what was coming because it's a thing in the box.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Were you expecting it this episode?
[UNKNOWN]: I was not expecting it this episode.
[UNKNOWN]: No.
[UNKNOWN]: It completely caught me off guard.
[UNKNOWN]: Nice.
[UNKNOWN]: So they did their job.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: Completely caught me off guard.
[UNKNOWN]: OK.
[UNKNOWN]: That's why when we spoke about his demise, I mentioned arrows in our last episode.
[UNKNOWN]: And I was just like, yeah, they give it.
[UNKNOWN]: They gave it to me.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: So good job.
[UNKNOWN]: Good job.
[UNKNOWN]: But after that, I got past that.
[UNKNOWN]: I was still in the high, I'm still really high up.
[UNKNOWN]: And there were some developments in the episode
[UNKNOWN]: really particularly Northworthy, on my reign of Lady Jane, Aaron.
[UNKNOWN]: Just the witness of the veil, right, you know, I think they're doing sacrifices.
[UNKNOWN]: That's what I think, but then that's what's going on.
[UNKNOWN]: I think they're doing human sacrifices, not the moon door.
[UNKNOWN]: But yeah, just there's a lot of,
[UNKNOWN]: subtle things, especially with Armour and Damon, and Dave on, excuse me, and G Wayne, and they're in that scene that they had together that I thought opened a lot to be able to talk about, with the relationship between the three of those people, how it portends for the rest of the series.
[UNKNOWN]: got it.
[UNKNOWN]: I, like you're saying, this was a packed episode, but I think it was my, my least favorite episode, and that's, you know, not every show, not every episode in a show in a season is going to hit, and that's fine.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I did feel like there were a couple of scenes that I didn't feel, either they, they didn't do enough setup.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, I think in both cases, they didn't do enough setup for them.
[UNKNOWN]: And so I was kind of like whiplashed by them a little bit.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like, wait, whoa, what's happening here?
[UNKNOWN]: Or there was a scene, part of a scene that I didn't catch.
[UNKNOWN]: I might have just looked away.
[UNKNOWN]: And then when I caught it, and that was like, when the dragons were flying by, from at Rain as a hideout,
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: So there was stuff and I just it felt a little like it was cut it didn't it didn't there were a couple of scenes I didn't flow very smoothly for me where everything else has been flowing really well.
[UNKNOWN]: This felt a little jarring in a couple places and then there was a little jetpacky action with was at rockston and coreless at the end.
[UNKNOWN]: Like they got from there to there really quickly and that felt a little bit like, well, okay, you know, time distance here, that's a little funky, so it was, there's a couple of things off, but none of it, none of it crashed the episode for me, you know,
[UNKNOWN]: I only listened to one other podcast today, and that was the instant reaction over on the ringerverse.
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm glad I'm not a book reader for this stuff, because it feels like there's a lot of... Yeah, and I haven't read a lot on the internet, or I've been staying away from a lot of that stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: But just from what I was hearing today, not being a book reader and just being a screen only, I feel like everything for me more or less is working.
[UNKNOWN]: things that they want me like with Cole's death like how ignoble it was like that all worked for me and then You know having a character we've seen at least once before who who fired those air arrows we'll talk about her later like all of that
[UNKNOWN]: stuff is working for me and so when we talk something about the sometimes on on Laura has shows called the shippy test right and that's where an author has written something and there's an intent behind the scene and then the people who are making the movie or the television show have to come along and change stuff and rearrange stuff to make it fit on-screen and it feels like they're doing a lot of that stuff
[UNKNOWN]: from sort of what we're hearing.
[UNKNOWN]: And as a show-only guy, it's working for me.
[UNKNOWN]: I feel no, I'm not dissatisfied.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm getting the right, um,
[UNKNOWN]: I'm getting the right impacts from the scenes in certain ways.
[UNKNOWN]: So on that regard, I'm glad I'm not a book reader because it sounds like some of the book readers may be a little bit disappointed with some of the stuff like butchers, butchers ball should have been a minor more or fish feed or these other big scenes.
[UNKNOWN]: We're maybe people are feeling a little bit that down.
[UNKNOWN]: And I don't want to be indifferent to that, but at the same time as a show on the guy, I'm not noticing anything lacking.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm okay with it.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I'm okay with it.
[UNKNOWN]: Like I think we spoke that way last week about adaptations.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm cool with it.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think they've done anything sort of egregious as to take me out of the story.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: So, you know, and that's not to be indifferent to other people who are really of course looking forward to some of the book stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: And then so just from a show only fan in show only watchers point of view, it's mostly working.
[UNKNOWN]: Ninety-nine, ninety-five percent working for me.
[UNKNOWN]: So that said, I thought that this was an interesting title of an episode Faceless
[UNKNOWN]: And I really liked how that was playing across multiple things.
[UNKNOWN]: I recently watched Dunkirk, because I had never seen it.
[UNKNOWN]: And, you know, Nolan's got this new Odyssey out, and so I was trying to catch up on.
[UNKNOWN]: My Nolan films, I just watched a Dunkirk and boy like that was an experience and you think about all the thousands of thousands of people who were affected by that war and killed in sort of indiscriminate ways and you think about all the soldiers that we see in the Butcher's ball here that you know just get cut down pretty quickly by coal in his
[UNKNOWN]: So we have all those sort of, those faceless men, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Those are, that's one set of faceless men.
[UNKNOWN]: But then we have these faceless assassins, right?
[UNKNOWN]: These are, you know, going in multiple directions, both in King's Landing and then sent to Tumbledon.
[UNKNOWN]: You know,
[UNKNOWN]: And they're, at least with the King's Landing, guys, it's like, oh, we're everywhere, we don't have a schedule, we don't have a name, we're just, there's nothing you can do about us, we're faceless in a way.
[UNKNOWN]: But then I really liked the extra little spin on it, which is, Kristen Cole is now faceless.
[UNKNOWN]: In that, he does not have a reputation anymore.
[UNKNOWN]: He's dead, in an ignoble and he's died
[UNKNOWN]: And he's going to be forgotten.
[UNKNOWN]: And in a couple hundred years, nobody's going to remember who this guy is.
[UNKNOWN]: And he's going to be another faceless victim of this war.
[UNKNOWN]: And a faceless, I shouldn't say victim of this war, a faceless perpetrator of this war.
[UNKNOWN]: And so I just, I thought the title was sort of cool.
[UNKNOWN]: It worked across multiple ways there.
[UNKNOWN]: My last thought is that for Reneera, however,
[UNKNOWN]: When we look at who she's relying on and who she trusts the most, her two most loyal subjects, servants, whatever you want to call them, Damon and Masaria, they have now both committed treason.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's a bad position for them to be in, and it's a bad position for Renera to be in.
[UNKNOWN]: And I can see, you know, I don't know how things are going to break, but there's a lot of tension being built up in the system, and I feel like at some point, some things are going to start to snap and start to come apart.
[UNKNOWN]: And given just even the tension that's happening with Renera
[UNKNOWN]: like we're starting to see some, you know, like that Reneer is just, um, there's a lot of strain, uh, she's carrying a lot of strain.
[UNKNOWN]: And, uh, you know, if she ever finds out about Messiah or Damon, that's, uh, it's going to be bad news for everybody involved.
[UNKNOWN]: I agree.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's, uh, didn't look that she has on her face as we're not a walks away from her.
[UNKNOWN]: after asking her that question, it's like, oh, shit.
[UNKNOWN]: Allison or, no, no, no, no, when Reneira is talking to Massaria, yeah, right, right, right, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: As she walks away from her after that.
[UNKNOWN]: Sorry, her look on her face.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, yes, the look on her face, like I really fucked up.
[UNKNOWN]: I actually posted a screen shot of that in the discord.
[UNKNOWN]: And I want to see if I can see it.
[UNKNOWN]: And I wrote as the caption, it was at this moment that she knew she fucked up.
[UNKNOWN]: And I captured that exact look on her face right there.
[UNKNOWN]: And not only fucked up as in, you know, this could hurt my standing or, you know, endanger my life, but also this person that I want to trust me.
[UNKNOWN]: who I believe in.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and who I want her to believe in me.
[UNKNOWN]: I have just betrayed that.
[UNKNOWN]: As she quit that.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: And that was that was really good.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's do this.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's take a quick break.
[UNKNOWN]: And then when we come back, I've got a couple of military corner notes and then we'll get into the episode break down.
[UNKNOWN]: You're back.
[UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
[UNKNOWN]: and we're back.
[UNKNOWN]: So I'll have a fuller situation report for the feedback episode on Thursday.
[UNKNOWN]: I'll put it together in that sort of template again.
[UNKNOWN]: But I wanted to call out a couple of things really quick and maybe I'll I'll do I'll add some of these things in as well.
[UNKNOWN]: But I wanted to highlight them really quick.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm really frustrated with the situation in tumble town because if they had had a picket line set up around, if they had encircle, you know, just a thin line of troops or even some roving patrols, there's a high chance that Coral is Valarian would not be presumed, you know, we presume he's alive, right?
[UNKNOWN]: I think that's, yes, they captured him.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, that could have been sorted earlier on, um, and I think I want to talk a little bit too.
[UNKNOWN]: Maybe I'll say this, say this until we get to the butcher's ball.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, it's kind of coming out anyway.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, let me, let me do that then.
[UNKNOWN]: I want to talk a little bit about what a
[UNKNOWN]: having a permitted deception versus some sort of treachery or forbidden betrayal of trust according to the laws of war, which we have codified in 1907, but they sort of go back for a long
[UNKNOWN]: okay and what's sort of not okay and you know some things that sort of are right on the line.
[UNKNOWN]: So let's start up with Kristen Cole.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a trap.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not a very good clip.
[UNKNOWN]: Sorry.
[UNKNOWN]: That's Admiral Akbar there calling out.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a trap.
[UNKNOWN]: That's what I call this section.
[UNKNOWN]: Cole and has been find the remnants of a riverlands camp that turns out to be a trap and better known as the Butcher's Ball.
[UNKNOWN]: So, not talking necessarily about Cole's specific demise.
[UNKNOWN]: We can kind of save that for a little bit.
[UNKNOWN]: What do you make of this scene with the Riverland men running a little a little fake out situation?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, this was great.
[UNKNOWN]: Guy, I thought it was, because Cole is so single-minded in purpose at this moment
[UNKNOWN]: It takes a few moments to realize that, wait a minute, now all these bodies were not killed here.
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I'm saying?
[UNKNOWN]: He says that.
[UNKNOWN]: So they are just walking directly into their deaths.
[UNKNOWN]: And, you know, he's, once they were able to defeat the initial assault,
[UNKNOWN]: with the people, with the soldiers just rising up and Yara Yara Yara, and I think they thought at that moment that maybe possibly this was just a small thing, the right to impede them.
[UNKNOWN]: Yep.
[UNKNOWN]: And then you hear the monks from the north, they're outside, you say they're outside.
[UNKNOWN]: And that it was at that moment, and I was like, oh, it was at that moment.
[UNKNOWN]: They knew they felt it.
[UNKNOWN]: Exactly.
[UNKNOWN]: And then you see the mismatch.
[UNKNOWN]: He sees them out of men that they actually have cold as in his company, which is drastically reduced from the march.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, how untold members died, some most likely deserted, once G Wayne was out.
[UNKNOWN]: So he's left with a rather diminished force all because of him and who he is.
[UNKNOWN]: And that was what was striking to me.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, he had a handful of soldiers left of men left.
[UNKNOWN]: And you can't blame anyone else, but yourself, for putting your company, your men, and your charge in the situation, but he doesn't even fucking care.
[UNKNOWN]: He says, you know, it's our death, right?
[UNKNOWN]: And it's kind of like, cool, like, it's finally here.
[UNKNOWN]: He makes the lame attempt of save my men, but it's like, man, there's no saving you guys because all you guys have been pretty nasty and dirty this whole time.
[UNKNOWN]: So, right, there's gonna be no mercy here.
[UNKNOWN]: And even that save my men was some bullshit.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, so his men can, if they were to live, would go back and say, oh, my gosh, Christian, coal, right down in life for us, you know, he took two, D for two people to the death, so that we could survive.
[UNKNOWN]: So they were actually sing the songs for right.
[UNKNOWN]: That's a good.
[UNKNOWN]: That's actually a really good point.
[UNKNOWN]: And thought about that angle on it.
[UNKNOWN]: But he, he doesn't,
[UNKNOWN]: It's not even the mission to slow the river land army down, if that was the true objective in the true case, you would have conducted that whole campaign of herring those forces in a very different way.
[UNKNOWN]: and have been more conservative and more caring of your men's welfare and, you know, hitting different parts.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, there was a different way you could have done that, but he was looking to die.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: He was looking to die from the beginning and then when it finally caught up to him, he was like, cool, now we can, we can do this and I'll do this great big battle and everybody would be happy and instead, Allison Blackwood, aka Black Alley.
[UNKNOWN]: Two to the guts, he went to the face.
[UNKNOWN]: So she's a member of House Blackwood.
[UNKNOWN]: She's the aunt of a Lord Blackwood of Benchcott.
[UNKNOWN]: And apparently she commands that the house is archery divisions.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: We saw her first in episode two at the battle after in the celebration of the after the battle of the fish feed.
[UNKNOWN]: And then with this one,
[UNKNOWN]: rumors are that we're going to see a little bit more of her given the number of episodes that any Shapiro has signed on for.
[UNKNOWN]: We're hoping to see her a little bit more and I think
[UNKNOWN]: Given the way that they've staged the introduction, it feels like it's going to be a minor character, but maybe somebody that we're going to see in some more, or this one big set piece battle that we've obviously got coming up.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's right.
[UNKNOWN]: It toppled it.
[UNKNOWN]: She's then thrilled to do it to the fight.
[UNKNOWN]: Apparently there's some book stuff around her too.
[UNKNOWN]: So we're going to just sort of swing a wide birth and fingers crossed that we get a lot more black alley coming up.
[UNKNOWN]: But that look of satisfaction on her face.
[UNKNOWN]: That was pretty sweet as well.
[UNKNOWN]: She's done with team black all the way, man.
[UNKNOWN]: She seems to be like a badass too.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like ready to see her like light it up a little bit more.
[UNKNOWN]: uh... i so this is uh... butchers ball and according to some of the booklor that i read uh... sir garbled gray uh... looked around and is quoted in the book today was butchery not battle and then later at some point down the road the court full mush room uh... heard that or some very soon that quote and then started calling it the butchers ball and then that was
[UNKNOWN]: interesting lead that after that was a nice little snack of action to in terms of like a good little fights.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we did.
[UNKNOWN]: At the end.
[UNKNOWN]: To your point as I was watching and I was like.
[UNKNOWN]: I understood when we debated who would win between Damon and Cole, you know, you can see why I guess I could, I saw why you thought Cole would have a chance and that's right.
[UNKNOWN]: His physicality.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I saw why you thought that.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: It didn't change my mind.
[UNKNOWN]: but I saw why.
[UNKNOWN]: Fair enough.
[UNKNOWN]: And he was using a flail, which is a really difficult weapon to wield.
[UNKNOWN]: So a morning star is a stick with a spike on it, or a mace, which is a stick with a bunch of sort of blades on it.
[UNKNOWN]: Mace requires more smithing abilities, so you need somebody who's actually skilled at being able to make those properly, where apparently with a morning star, it's a little bit easier to stick a ball on a stick with some spikes in it, some nails in it or what what have you versus a flail, which is an interesting weapon, I'll do a little bit more research on this for the Thursday podcast, but apparently it was a thrashing.
[UNKNOWN]: where it came from was a crop harvesting tool like what you beat the grain with to separate things and then it sort of developed from there.
[UNKNOWN]: But
[UNKNOWN]: That to use that weapon is extremely hard.
[UNKNOWN]: It's very easy to hit yourself.
[UNKNOWN]: You need to know distance and speed and how to recover it a bunch of moves and it's heavy.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like a heavy thing to wield around as well.
[UNKNOWN]: And so yeah, that I think it all goes into Cole's physicality as the kind of fighter he is.
[UNKNOWN]: Did you catch that he shouted the words of the high tower house?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: We liked the way.
[UNKNOWN]: So, what did you make of that?
[UNKNOWN]: Because I didn't realize that he, I thought he was kind of sourd on, or is it because of Allison's?
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, because of Allison.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Because I will continually go back to what Alicia said, get over it, man.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, it takes the handkerchief wraps it around the sword and they get over it and they don't want you.
[UNKNOWN]: They don't want you.
[UNKNOWN]: And you are marching.
[UNKNOWN]: You've marched me as people to their death because women don't want you.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's cool in a nutshell, fragile ego.
[UNKNOWN]: So I'm going to lead people to that death because I can't face the people, the women who be injected me.
[UNKNOWN]: I can't see them prosper after they reject it.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: So I have to die.
[UNKNOWN]: Type of fucked up misogyny as this.
[UNKNOWN]: So we like the way or the words of the high tower house.
[UNKNOWN]: It refers to the lighthouse apparently in Old Town Harbor and whispering sound.
[UNKNOWN]: It gets foggy down there and so they have a lighthouse there.
[UNKNOWN]: And so obviously that's guiding in the shipping and that kind of stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: But the high towers are also...
[UNKNOWN]: instrumental in developing the citadel supporting and establishing that along with the starry sept, so the religion of the seven, so in a way they see themselves as lighting the way not only in trade, but in intellectual knowledge as well as religion, so that sort of all feeds into their their methods.
[UNKNOWN]: And then, of course, in season one episode five, I believe it was, I forget who exactly, but they were at that big feast to, to fate for Neera, and somebody says, what color does, you know, what colors the beacon in, in old town when, when they're calling their bannerment to, to war, it's green in, of course, Allison's wearing a green dress.
[UNKNOWN]: in that moment.
[UNKNOWN]: So I guess they would put something in the flame to make it green.
[UNKNOWN]: But yeah, I think it's interesting that coal uses it.
[UNKNOWN]: So I couldn't make heads or tails of it, but I think I think you you have it.
[UNKNOWN]: It's it's it's about Allison.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, anything.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, more than anything else.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: All right, let's move on to sort of a compressed scene here.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's take the small council, the House Baratheon delegation, and then the petitions of the small folk altogether.
[UNKNOWN]: So obviously, we have the small council meeting and the Baratheon Fellows and the small folk.
[UNKNOWN]: What did you make of the small council meeting?
[UNKNOWN]: Man, it's hard to make anything of it other than man if only she had a hand.
[UNKNOWN]: Hey, no, he was truly looking out for interest and for the interest of the realm.
[UNKNOWN]: If only she had a hand.
[UNKNOWN]: But they're lacking.
[UNKNOWN]: She can't be the ear, the voice, all the time.
[UNKNOWN]: She can't have that responsibility.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think anyone can.
[UNKNOWN]: And we talked about this while we're how important that chief of staff position is.
[UNKNOWN]: It's so important.
[UNKNOWN]: to how the meeting is run, to what gets talked about at the meeting, to solutions before you even have the meeting.
[UNKNOWN]: Solutions are already there.
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: Things are already been sorted.
[UNKNOWN]: You can't go into the meeting, trying to sort these things.
[UNKNOWN]: These
[UNKNOWN]: I think Damon getting up and walking out and after Alan says, you know, we'll get some men who's like, no, thank you, I'll get some hilarious men who's like, no, thank you and just walks away to one because you need to help, right?
[UNKNOWN]: But you're so bent on doing things your way, this is where Damon gets always stuck.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's about him and not about him.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: So later when he's talking to the gold cloaks, and he's saying, when I raised you up, when I grabbed you up, I raised you up.
[UNKNOWN]: I need you, man.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's not about, you know, them or about the city, or, you know, about the queen that they've sworn allegiance to.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: And ultimately, to their own families, to protect their own families, ultimately, because when somebody else comes in, and they heard that the gold cloaks were took some sides, yeah, they might want to clean house a little bit.
[UNKNOWN]: And so this might not be a hold on to a job or your life for very long.
[UNKNOWN]: So it's very, it was very frustrating to watch that scene for me, because I just, you know, again, looking at the table, who's the only one who offered something truly was Alan when he said, I will get a contingent of men to show up the defenses.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: No one else really offered anything.
[UNKNOWN]: He also offered, he counseled being patient with Tumbleton.
[UNKNOWN]: If you wait for me to get down here, don't strike, don't be hasty, choose your moment.
[UNKNOWN]: So he was actually right, offering good advice for the well-being of everyone, the realm and the queen.
[UNKNOWN]: But again, he's in a position where he's not his father.
[UNKNOWN]: What authority does he really have?
[UNKNOWN]: Exactly, which is why Damon felt comfortable enough to be like, yeah, turning his back and say, nah, because I don't know if he would have done that with Coralus, he has been a conversation.
[UNKNOWN]: It may, it could have ended in the same manner, but it might have been done differently.
[UNKNOWN]: As opposed to, like, say, throwing a wine cup or manually.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: Those guys are great.
[UNKNOWN]: I love those too.
[UNKNOWN]: very funny.
[UNKNOWN]: So three score.
[UNKNOWN]: So there's a Valerian attachment of 60 men like that's nothing compared to what the right keep and what have you.
[UNKNOWN]: So that's that's pretty small.
[UNKNOWN]: So it was a four in in 10.
[UNKNOWN]: I think is what he said.
[UNKNOWN]: So, so, so, so, so Sarah Luther, can I say that to them fast?
[UNKNOWN]: And in 14 men and he says five
[UNKNOWN]: of all of that.
[UNKNOWN]: So these are small numbers.
[UNKNOWN]: So I don't understand how big the gold cloaks actually are, but that doesn't seem like a huge number to me, but I guess it's more the impact of the fact that they're being assassinated in these ways.
[UNKNOWN]: And then yeah, we got confirmation across the board, Nate was very, really clear.
[UNKNOWN]: He's like, yeah, it's not a theory, guys.
[UNKNOWN]: It's the guy.
[UNKNOWN]: They showed us in the previously on of that.
[UNKNOWN]: previously episode and it was literally a blank and miss it and and if you don't watch the previously on you wouldn't have seen it let alone if if you looked away in the moment but they showed us that dude and so that was that was them so JD was on it and it was on it so good job guys.
[UNKNOWN]: The Riverlands Army is a fortnight away so that's two weeks, 14 days and something else that was interesting was the fact that
[UNKNOWN]: Damon was talking about the prophecy in the open.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, Joe.
[UNKNOWN]: I've got an audio clip for that.
[UNKNOWN]: Remember the prophecy, your circuit could cool him.
[UNKNOWN]: Whatever you do in its service is justified.
[UNKNOWN]: Egg on the conqueror banned thousands on the field of fire, thousands, and settled the realm for January.
[UNKNOWN]: He thinks, sir.
[UNKNOWN]: But enemy soldiers, not subjects he bent in the need.
[UNKNOWN]: They're Lord, bedn the need to you.
[UNKNOWN]: The people were just as happily full of a mule, if that's safe.
[UNKNOWN]: My father would have bore it.
[UNKNOWN]: Ah, and there we have it.
[UNKNOWN]: There's a lot going on in that audio clip.
[UNKNOWN]: Not, first and foremost, is demons opinions of the people.
[UNKNOWN]: And the subjects of their room, you know, they quote a quote rule.
[UNKNOWN]: Dame and Damon, Damon.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, yeah, what do you even say to that?
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: She didn't even say anything to it.
[UNKNOWN]: She, she, she's like,
[UNKNOWN]: caught up in the norms and the titles and, you know, people's place in society.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, I mean, we see that in a everyday real world.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's a real situation.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's, that's, I think a lot of people have that real challenge is how do we win things or show,
[UNKNOWN]: charged that you can't even sit to find common ground, right?
[UNKNOWN]: That's right.
[UNKNOWN]: I think that's the hard part.
[UNKNOWN]: So, but again, when you said he spoke openly of the, you know, prophecy.
[UNKNOWN]: who at that table knows of the prophecy?
[UNKNOWN]: Or a while was like, from what?
[UNKNOWN]: Prophecy.
[UNKNOWN]: He was kind of, you could see him shifting his tear a little bit, and I was like, is he leaning in a little bit?
[UNKNOWN]: So that was interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And then when he says, when she says, my father wouldn't, and he's like, ah, there it is.
[UNKNOWN]: and he never really, he loved his brother, but he never really respected his brother.
[UNKNOWN]: But he's still competing with his brother.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, right, right, through Reneera, he's still, yeah, that's a good point.
[UNKNOWN]: He's still fighting, you know, the battles that he had were his brother.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: He's trying to outshine his brother, even though his brother is no longer king, because his brother's dead.
[UNKNOWN]: Don't I mean, he's still trying to sway people and show people that his way is better than his brother's way.
[UNKNOWN]: When Renir is still trying to find her way and has used her father's memory as this sort of North Star to help guide her.
[UNKNOWN]: Even though I don't think it's doing a lot of good for her right now, we know a lot of situations.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, she doesn't always just say, oh, get out of here with your dumb ass ideas.
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I'm saying?
[UNKNOWN]: She's not doing that.
[UNKNOWN]: She's letting him voice his opinion.
[UNKNOWN]: And you can see,
[UNKNOWN]: where, you know, she's having these conversations with him in order to better shape her world to you, right?
[UNKNOWN]: So she's letting him have an effect on on how she rules whether it's in agreement with what he's asking or telling her or not.
[UNKNOWN]: But he is so
[UNKNOWN]: I'm better than my brother that he doesn't even see it.
[UNKNOWN]: All he sees is, oh, so you're going to take your father's side, huh?
[UNKNOWN]: Of course you would.
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: And it's just sad to witness someone who could be so much more than what he is.
[UNKNOWN]: And really be an effective agent for Reneera's rule.
[UNKNOWN]: The, you know, they're, they're not only their legitimacy, but then actually what they could do is uh, he could be very effective.
[UNKNOWN]: We wouldn't, he said he's a very charismatic leader.
[UNKNOWN]: They could be be powerful.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's what they started out as, right?
[UNKNOWN]: As they thought that they were going to be.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, the two Targaryens marrying and being aligned in purpose and such.
[UNKNOWN]: So it's very, you know, he's just so full of himself that he doesn't get out of his own way.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's, you know, that's, it's, it's just sad to see.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, it's quickly, uh, talk about the delegation from the Barathians.
[UNKNOWN]: I think just what's
[UNKNOWN]: giving us a pointer as to where Baratheon is not, which is he's not either in King's Landing or he's not in Tumbleton, but that he's off somewhere attending to the Vulture King who's been raiding the Stormlands in the Red Mountains.
[UNKNOWN]: Don't know if this is all smoke and mirrors, or what that actually means.
[UNKNOWN]: I assume that these men are not dead, that they just took their uniforms, maybe a held them hostage a little bit, while they took it.
[UNKNOWN]: Cause this gets, I'll do this on Thursday.
[UNKNOWN]: We'll talk about what's a rose to gear versus a, versus periphery.
[UNKNOWN]: And when you can do these kinds of things, but I assume that they just took their uniforms, but kept those guys alive.
[UNKNOWN]: Cause he said, give me your belt.
[UNKNOWN]: So,
[UNKNOWN]: and they didn't kill him on the spot.
[UNKNOWN]: They're talking to Rhinara.
[UNKNOWN]: She's like, get this is all bullshit which it tells me.
[UNKNOWN]: This is all BS.
[UNKNOWN]: There's no way that I can call for him to be here and he decides to go after some bandits.
[UNKNOWN]: There's no possible way where that is legitimate.
[UNKNOWN]: Like she can see it.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, no, that's a bullshit.
[UNKNOWN]: She can see it.
[UNKNOWN]: And she knows it.
[UNKNOWN]: So what does she do with that information?
[UNKNOWN]: That's the question going forward.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, we're going to have to wait and see.
[UNKNOWN]: See, we're a Baratheon shows up on the battlefield before the end of the season, because they keep dropping hints.
[UNKNOWN]: They keep laying track for this.
[UNKNOWN]: So I'll be curious to see how it plays out with the petitioners.
[UNKNOWN]: They're out of Talo.
[UNKNOWN]: It seems like order is breaking down.
[UNKNOWN]: Reneera offers some thoughts and prayers to the sisters.
[UNKNOWN]: And the two things, obviously, let's talk about the cut,
[UNKNOWN]: But the other thing is, at some point, she looks up at one of those columns, that's holding, you know, in the ceiling, and she looks at that figure.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm just wondering if anybody knows what that carving is supposed to represent or who it's supposed to represent.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if you...
[UNKNOWN]: I've got to go back to it, I've got to go back to it.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, she gives it, she looks up and they frame that column and like some, you know, big,
[UNKNOWN]: noble, regal person up there and whether it's decoration or whether it's truly somebody who's being immortalized in stone.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: So she gets a cut on the throne and we've kind of been, I don't know, I've been waiting for this moment.
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't know it was going to happen, but every time anybody's on that throne, I'm worried about them getting cut.
[UNKNOWN]: And because obviously that was what happened to
[UNKNOWN]: uh... to her father and uh... in his slow demise so i love the metaphor of the fact that
[UNKNOWN]: You know, when you, when you sit up there, you're not safe, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Being, being the ruler of this place is not a safe thing.
[UNKNOWN]: And even the chair you sit on is dangerous.
[UNKNOWN]: And as well, the metaphor for power and how power affects you and how you're, you're being affected by, you know, the, what's to say, disimble of power.
[UNKNOWN]: And the reality of the power.
[UNKNOWN]: to her to her power.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, that's really good.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: All these petitions are just little little nips and, you know, every time that something is wrong as she can't remedy it.
[UNKNOWN]: They tell her that.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: What do you mean?
[UNKNOWN]: We come to you to remedy this as she can.
[UNKNOWN]: is a little cut.
[UNKNOWN]: Tallow cut.
[UNKNOWN]: Women are going missing cut to the point where she has to just leave.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: And that crown looked real heavy on her head as she was walking out.
[UNKNOWN]: Very heavy.
[UNKNOWN]: It looked very uncomfortable trying to keep that in position.
[UNKNOWN]: And that just feeds into that whole conversation that she and Allison have been having about what being a ruler is gonna do to you.
[UNKNOWN]: and how you're actually going to be affected by it.
[UNKNOWN]: And the noise is that you have to make.
[UNKNOWN]: All right, let's jump over to the watch over Tumbleton.
[UNKNOWN]: Ulf limits his situation to Hugh, who's come up to relieve him from watch duties over Tumbleton.
[UNKNOWN]: Later Hugh sneaks into Tumbleton and things don't go the way that he had planned or hoped.
[UNKNOWN]: Uh, I do, I mean, Ulf is an Oof, uh, but I do love his earnestness and his sort of, he's just, he's really just kind of a simple man and he's a simple ego just to go man, but he's true to who he is.
[UNKNOWN]: So I kind of respect it in a way.
[UNKNOWN]: Look at, I mean, Ulf is just, he's just so good.
[UNKNOWN]: He's that friend that you have is just like, oh, you're doing too much, bro.
[UNKNOWN]: You're doing too much.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, what's the point of having a dragon or having a dragon is the first can't see it?
[UNKNOWN]: I do, you're doing too much, it's like,
[UNKNOWN]: let's get past this situation that we're in, which is a war, which is a war.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's get past this situation.
[UNKNOWN]: So then you can enjoy the fruits, right?
[UNKNOWN]: But no, not right now.
[UNKNOWN]: just he he doesn't have that in him to just be like let me chill for a little bit and then once everything is is done.
[UNKNOWN]: We've won.
[UNKNOWN]: We secured this motherfucker.
[UNKNOWN]: Then I'm going to throw the biggest fucking rager of all ragers.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, I'm going to have the biggest party that flea bottom has ever seen.
[UNKNOWN]: It's going to be crazy.
[UNKNOWN]: Everybody's coming.
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: Everybody's going to be there.
[UNKNOWN]: He just can't see that.
[UNKNOWN]: He wants it like the test where they put two cookies on a plate with a kid and then you can have both if you can wait, right?
[UNKNOWN]: And now when he wants the, he wants his cookie now.
[UNKNOWN]: He wants his top.
[UNKNOWN]: I know.
[UNKNOWN]: He was talking his eyes up there sitting on the hill.
[UNKNOWN]: Two days up on that hill.
[UNKNOWN]: So I have a little,
[UNKNOWN]: Bone to pick with the way that they're running things here.
[UNKNOWN]: If rocks in a rock spray, I should look it up real quick.
[UNKNOWN]: I've written his name down before.
[UNKNOWN]: He's our man from Andor.
[UNKNOWN]: His song, the rock song.
[UNKNOWN]: If our men rocks and can get out real quick like that and scoop up a coreless, what's to keep you from sending out a few dudes to sneak around the back of the dragon and take out the dragon rider.
[UNKNOWN]: Right, because a dragon without a dragon rider is, you know, it's a loose nuke, but it's it's at least it can't be directed at your troops necessarily.
[UNKNOWN]: So, because the dragon, man, you know, the dragon is not going to let you get close.
[UNKNOWN]: The dragon is the dragon.
[UNKNOWN]: That's the thing.
[UNKNOWN]: And if you don't have like a maneuverable or mobile, what do they call scorpion?
[UNKNOWN]: Then you think they say, I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: You're a dragon.
[UNKNOWN]: You're just a fear of the dragon.
[UNKNOWN]: Shoot some arrows at that dragon rider, sit up there on the hill.
[UNKNOWN]: Dude, dude, does the dragon have like, you know, whiskers and can smell the air?
[UNKNOWN]: And like that, I don't know that that's the case.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I don't know that the dragon they can.
[UNKNOWN]: That can be offensive.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you remember the scene when what you'm gonna call it.
[UNKNOWN]: which we call it, adolescence father, meant to went to meet with Rhinara and Dragonstone, on Dragonstone, and Damon just slowly, almost achieved this sword.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: Did you see how correct this reacted to just that movement?
[UNKNOWN]: They, they remember.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, if you're taking a nap, if you're taking a nap, if you're taking a nap on the hill and some real sneaky guys come up behind you maybe they've got a couple of different units right some over here making a little bit more noise and then some over here making not so much noise and they can get in bow shot range of the dragon rider who is not necessarily next to the dragon the dragon is still you know a little bit of ways.
[UNKNOWN]: I think you could put the hurt on the Dragon Rider.
[UNKNOWN]: Can you get some men who are going to do that?
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, granted, you know, maybe that's got to be some real courage because once that Dragon, if the Dragon does light up then like anybody's maybe around there, as soon as I, but you suddenly have a dragon without a Dragon Rider.
[UNKNOWN]: I just think it's, I don't want the risk.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I don't know why you can't take a dozen men to put up a little perimeter to make sure that that Dragon Rider is safe.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's just put a little perimeter watch around them to make sure that they've got some guards checking on their, you know, the woods behind them, that kind of stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: So that's that's by point and then my other point is is not having a line of observation or a picket line or the debt, you know, or roving patrols in that area around Tumbleton making sure guys like Rockston don't get out and are causing problems.
[UNKNOWN]: Obviously they're letting a lot of supplies in.
[UNKNOWN]: Supplies are just freely coming into the tap.
[UNKNOWN]: like what's up with that?
[UNKNOWN]: That that should be that town should be locked down from the outside.
[UNKNOWN]: Nobody getting in or out.
[UNKNOWN]: That's
[UNKNOWN]: that they're not doing any kind of seeding of that town, loosely or tightly, to me just makes absolutely no sense militarily.
[UNKNOWN]: I think that just violates every protocol of warfare that's known warfare at this stage.
[UNKNOWN]: So I just think it's the dragons.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but they just didn't get rocks then rocks and not.
[UNKNOWN]: Right, rocks and got out and got corollas.
[UNKNOWN]: So that's my point.
[UNKNOWN]: Right, right.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: No fair.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, if you move the whole army all 15,000 dudes out, yeah, the rest can send up.
[UNKNOWN]: That is that is legit.
[UNKNOWN]: But you send out 20 guys at a time here there, you know, you could be, you should have a net around tumbleton and then you just lock him down.
[UNKNOWN]: And yeah, you don't have a lot of forces.
[UNKNOWN]: I get that, right?
[UNKNOWN]: But even if you had a loose line or some roving patrols out there in the woods, even just a few patrols,
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, stopping them from foraging, stopping from them from gathering intelligence, shooting the ravens that are flying back and, you know, shooting down the ravens that are flying back and forth between the town.
[UNKNOWN]: I just think they're bungling the whole way.
[UNKNOWN]: See the machine doubled in.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It should be a huge town
[UNKNOWN]: little bone to pick.
[UNKNOWN]: All right, well let's do this.
[UNKNOWN]: Let me let's take a break.
[UNKNOWN]: Let me cool down while we listen to some commercials.
[UNKNOWN]: And then when we come back, let's talk about Alice and Perinera and Holina.
[UNKNOWN]: and we're back.
[UNKNOWN]: And yes, Joe, as you said, we forgot to talk about you.
[UNKNOWN]: So let's talk about you and his wife, Kat, because that did not go the way that he thought it was.
[UNKNOWN]: Hey, honey, I'm home.
[UNKNOWN]: But you.
[UNKNOWN]: Sorry.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: First of all, that was incredibly risky.
[UNKNOWN]: What he did.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, stupid.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, I can forgive old going to the pub to see his mates.
[UNKNOWN]: I, this is, and that inside of Kings Landing, where you're, quote unquote, safe.
[UNKNOWN]: This is literally walking into the enemies for fortress.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: And yeah, just really poor judgment and terrible decision making all the things that are wrong with people in this show.
[UNKNOWN]: This selfish, terrible selfish decision.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, and then when he's in front of his wife saying, I'm a dragon rider, and she's like, I never needed you to be that.
[UNKNOWN]: Right?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I never needed you to be that.
[UNKNOWN]: Don't say you did this for me because you didn't.
[UNKNOWN]: right you did this for you you did this for your ego yes this is for you I didn't need you to be up there I need you to be down here you know I needed your feet
[UNKNOWN]: and I can respect it because at the end of the day, we're all, you're saying that these are people who are saying we're doing things for others, when really they're not.
[UNKNOWN]: There's, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: They're not.
[UNKNOWN]: And if you can't be honest with yourself, in that moment, then how to hell do you think this person is supposed to love you?
[UNKNOWN]: and welcome you when you are welcoming her with a lie that she sees right through because she knows you just you know give her something going into a couple of therapy maybe
[UNKNOWN]: I wouldn't get paid enough.
[UNKNOWN]: All right, right.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, I think you diagnosed them pretty well, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: You and Alf, you know, just get.
[UNKNOWN]: But I will say, you know, seeing their dragons be affectionate to each other.
[UNKNOWN]: Now, that was nice.
[UNKNOWN]: It's still going in forever though.
[UNKNOWN]: That was nice.
[UNKNOWN]: Where do you put Adam in this?
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, if we've got golf and he is, is Adam doing this for the right reasons?
[UNKNOWN]: Is he following the right sort of protocols such as they are?
[UNKNOWN]: I think he's trying to do what Grinara needs him to do.
[UNKNOWN]: If you ask him, if he became a dragon rider out of altruistic beliefs, no, he didn't.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, a dragon showed up and chose him.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: So it wasn't something that he went looking for.
[UNKNOWN]: Something that he accepted, right?
[UNKNOWN]: And I don't know that I can say that the three of those people are motivated by the same things.
[UNKNOWN]: I will not say that.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't see Adam as,
[UNKNOWN]: being as ego-driven as these two men are.
[UNKNOWN]: Is he the more pure of hearts of the three of them of the seeds?
[UNKNOWN]: Pure of intention?
[UNKNOWN]: Dikki actually has a good intention.
[UNKNOWN]: I think so.
[UNKNOWN]: He's not doing it to get himself out of date or to be the big shot amongst his crew with the public.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I would say yes.
[UNKNOWN]: I would say yes.
[UNKNOWN]: And he doesn't even really care about being recognized by coreless in the same way.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, he sees it and he calls it out more, but I think he
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know, yeah, he just, he doesn't seem like a guy who's seeking glory.
[UNKNOWN]: He may be seeking adventure, but he doesn't seem like he's seeking honor and glory and to sing praises of my name and all that kind of stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: I think the legitimacy does matter to him, absolutely, because when she named him at Adam of heart, right, he, he looked so pretty bummed, he saw, there's
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: There's a pride that he carries, that he wants people to see, you know, that name on him.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: So he does, he does want that.
[UNKNOWN]: His ego does play as well.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Just and he does want that recognition.
[UNKNOWN]: Absolutely.
[UNKNOWN]: All right.
[UNKNOWN]: I got it.
[UNKNOWN]: All right.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, uh,
[UNKNOWN]: Um, yes, or he after he's been seen.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, like dude, that's a big, don't mind you.
[UNKNOWN]: Sorry, sorry, huge, you like you've been that hair, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Like you you don't think there's going to be a target.
[UNKNOWN]: Give away man.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: Big dude big and people have been seeing you right flying around on the back of this dragon, you know, There's a kind of looks like that dude.
[UNKNOWN]: Anyway, not a good situation for a dragon rider to be in.
[UNKNOWN]: All right, Allison, Reneera and Helena.
[UNKNOWN]: Reneera confronts Allison about her attempts to escape, and Allison comes clean regarding Helena.
[UNKNOWN]: Missaria lies to her queen and then starts to cover her tracks, Allison tries to convince Helena that they need to flee, and then later, Allison and Reneera meet again, and Reneera gets Allison to go to Aaron Hall.
[UNKNOWN]: and Helena and Alice and talk again.
[UNKNOWN]: All right, so yeah, I, I, I, I thought this, the scene, um, between Alicina and Raydara, just really, you know, everything that Alicina was telling her.
[UNKNOWN]: In this moment, this is when, you know, she really becomes that.
[UNKNOWN]: Hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: So we see her steal herself.
[UNKNOWN]: And maybe she didn't want to do and say the things and go down the path that she wanted to do, that she went.
[UNKNOWN]: She had to, right, she had to, she's feeling like there's no other options.
[UNKNOWN]: There's no one has given her different, you know, route, you know, her hand.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you can really see.
[UNKNOWN]: I was saying like casting around trying to find.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: So she's, she's doing the thing that she thinks that she has to do in this moment.
[UNKNOWN]: And it is ruthless.
[UNKNOWN]: And then it's fucked up.
[UNKNOWN]: And it is, you know,
[UNKNOWN]: You know, it's not anything, I don't think this is the type of person that she wants to be, but the crown makes you do these sorts of things.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, sorry.
[UNKNOWN]: You were talking about Reneera here.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, Reneera.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: When she started to, that's what I'm saying that Allison, in that moment, she became what Allison was telling her she was actually calling.
[UNKNOWN]: And that look that Reneera, that fighting that final scene between them, that look that Reneera has on her face.
[UNKNOWN]: It's just an incredible portrayal by Emma Darcy here and like the one on our face that there's a scene there's a part of the scene that Alison touches her the hem of her of her shirt The cuff of her shirt and she looks at her like why you touch me and then arranges
[UNKNOWN]: the sleeve, you know, back to how she wants it.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's in that moment, I'm like, oh, okay.
[UNKNOWN]: She's like, yeah, I'm done with this bullshit.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm done with this bullshit.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's, you know, I gotta do what I have to do, fucking, I just have to do it.
[UNKNOWN]: So we get this situation where Alice, it reveals to René a later that Holina is a dreamer.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: And this is something we've sort of been aware of in the show, but this is the first time Reneer is really hearing about this.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, those elephant doesn't save Dreamer.
[UNKNOWN]: No, but Reneer says, yeah, because that's, you know, part of her belief system.
[UNKNOWN]: Right, part of the Targaryen mythology.
[UNKNOWN]: Exactly.
[UNKNOWN]: Of the family itself.
[UNKNOWN]: Exactly.
[UNKNOWN]: Receive these prophetic dreams of the future.
[UNKNOWN]: One thing that I think is interesting about the, the whole dreaming thing is,
[UNKNOWN]: is just because you dream a truth, doesn't mean that you're going to understand the truth or other people are going to understand the truth of that.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: So there's a lot of interpretation and misinterpretation that can happen here, around these scenes and this stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: But I think I wouldn't be surprised if we see Reneera
[UNKNOWN]: later trying to tap into, like sending Allison away sort of works that, so now she's got unfettered access to Helena.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: And start sort of asking her a bunch of questions and trying to, you know, what do you see on?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, exactly.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I do have a call out to the Citadel.
[UNKNOWN]: I would like to, I would like to put a call out, I should say.
[UNKNOWN]: to the Citadel to the maesters among us.
[UNKNOWN]: I would love some more information about Dreamers.
[UNKNOWN]: So if anybody wants to send in some information about notable Dreamers, obviously, it has to do with the doom of malaria.
[UNKNOWN]: and the escape of the Targaryens.
[UNKNOWN]: But what else can we know about dreamers and who are some of the notable dreamers in Targaryen history?
[UNKNOWN]: Right in, that would be great.
[UNKNOWN]: Another thing I noted that I thought was interesting when
[UNKNOWN]: Allison was talking to Haleena later and she takes away the tapestry, which is a very interesting not tapestry but embroidery, which is very interesting as well.
[UNKNOWN]: I snapped a screenshot of it and put it in the discord of a fame and sitting in that very womb-like picture.
[UNKNOWN]: I guess I don't know how it's the guy.
[UNKNOWN]: She takes the knitting needle and pokes it at her knitting her callus on her finger
[UNKNOWN]: and I thought that that was an interesting thing because she does that right around the time that Alice and is lying to her again.
[UNKNOWN]: So something that was interesting when I was reading about calluses today, yes, I did read about calluses, this is part of my research, is that yeah, you've got thickened skinned there, but apparently studies say that you don't necessarily have
[UNKNOWN]: on that spot before it registers as painful.
[UNKNOWN]: Great.
[UNKNOWN]: So her poking herself is she trying to make herself feel something?
[UNKNOWN]: Is it a metaphor for the lies that Allison keeps telling Helena and that she's sort of callous to these things?
[UNKNOWN]: And yeah, you can lie to me and maybe it takes a little bit more but it still hurts.
[UNKNOWN]: They're still painful underneath there every time you do it, even though I'm used to you doing it to me.
[UNKNOWN]: And I just have to, I just feel so badly for Alice it because she just is one of your friends.
[UNKNOWN]: Record of, as being a mother, like you don't start out in life trying to be a bad parent.
[UNKNOWN]: And she just has not had a very successful raw Muffin appearance.
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm just, as a fellow parents, I'm just like, man, that sucks.
[UNKNOWN]: That sucks, like, I feel bad.
[UNKNOWN]: All right, all right, fair enough.
[UNKNOWN]: Ha ha ha.
[UNKNOWN]: Fair enough.
[UNKNOWN]: and taking out some poor shelving girls who were.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we had to be done.
[UNKNOWN]: We lost a stable boy and some more households after they were no fault of their own.
[UNKNOWN]: No, they're fault of their own.
[UNKNOWN]: Just ground up a terrible world.
[UNKNOWN]: That's a terrible world that they exist in.
[UNKNOWN]: I keep your secrets.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, Jean, last night, I was not feeling very well.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's another statement.
[UNKNOWN]: Did I sound bad?
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, man, you were a little off, I could so.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, I went back and edited the podcast this morning.
[UNKNOWN]: I was listening to my incestant coughing, and it was driving me crazy.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it was, and physically when you're coughing that much too, you just get exhausted.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, yes.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think I was just cooked.
[UNKNOWN]: So anyway, I got a good night's sleep less.
[UNKNOWN]: I got to get a really good night's sleep last night.
[UNKNOWN]: That's awesome.
[UNKNOWN]: Ray into the drugstore got some cough suppressant, which I'm just going to use sparingly for, you know, my podcasting and meeting responsibilities.
[UNKNOWN]: It's still there, but it's a lot less today.
[UNKNOWN]: So we're going to try to cruise through this so that I can get this edited and get out.
[UNKNOWN]: And then, you know, we can talk some more in depth and detail on the Thursday podcast with them.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, back.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, we can do that.
[UNKNOWN]: So.
[UNKNOWN]: I think where we left off was around the gold cloak resignation, so Damon received a delegation of gold cloaks claiming that they couldn't take care of their families anymore because of the lack of pay and then later.
[UNKNOWN]: So this is one of those compressed scenes while we're grabbing a couple of little bits.
[UNKNOWN]: Damon sets a trap.
[UNKNOWN]: for one of the faceless men and then confronts off.
[UNKNOWN]: What did you make of that the gold cloak situation?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I think we spoke a little bit about it earlier in the pod, just saying that he, you know,
[UNKNOWN]: His hubris is at an all-time high in this scene because he never wants things of them.
[UNKNOWN]: He only thinks of I of me, right?
[UNKNOWN]: And you can't lead a force of people.
[UNKNOWN]: with I and me, especially when their needs are not being met, so these are men who are saying to him, you know, we're worried about our families, we're worried about, you know, our lives, we're worried about where we, we're, we're with that leave our families if we wouldn't know longer here.
[UNKNOWN]: And his only thing is to look at them and say, you guys are cowards and, you know,
[UNKNOWN]: where would you be without me?
[UNKNOWN]: And that is just not the way man, that's not the way.
[UNKNOWN]: It's interesting too because the gold cloaks and the spread of core that they have, demon takes as a measure of his own sense of self worth.
[UNKNOWN]: the gold cloaks are his creation.
[UNKNOWN]: They are his private army.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: So there's a logistical component to it.
[UNKNOWN]: But there's also this sense of self and self-identity and ego that has wrapped up in that.
[UNKNOWN]: And so for them to betray him in this way, that's the way he feels it, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Is it?
[UNKNOWN]: Is it betrayal?
[UNKNOWN]: What does that say about Damon as a person as a leader as a person who can do this?
[UNKNOWN]: It's been successful up into this point and now it's starting to fail.
[UNKNOWN]: He's been confronted by his daughter, failure, right?
[UNKNOWN]: He's fighting with his wife, failure, right?
[UNKNOWN]: So there's all of these things that are, there's all these things that are eating away at his self-confidence, or at his sense of self.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: And the gold cloaks are a big part of his identity within the realm.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think we can say a lot of that is his own fault.
[UNKNOWN]: Sure, of course.
[UNKNOWN]: Of course it is.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think that's what he's not recognizing.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, but it's confronting.
[UNKNOWN]: It's challenging.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like starting to.
[UNKNOWN]: It's starting to stress him out.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: And that is going to lead to more bad decisions.
[UNKNOWN]: I think down the road, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Like we saw the bad decisions in this episode and immediately afterwards.
[UNKNOWN]: regarding off and regarding the face this man who he should have kept alive.
[UNKNOWN]: I think I in total agreement that dude should have been brought in for some more eye-gouging question.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's like he did.
[UNKNOWN]: Not that I could don't torture, but you know, given relative to their point of view that he should have hauled that dude in.
[UNKNOWN]: Exactly.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's again, it's his home
[UNKNOWN]: And in that moment he's like, you know, this is, fuck you, I'm going to kill you.
[UNKNOWN]: And he killed not thinking about the information that he could have gleaned from this person.
[UNKNOWN]: Maybe it would have been nothing, but maybe it could have been something.
[UNKNOWN]: They could have at least taken one cell off the table, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Maybe not all the cells, but they could have learned some of things about the...
[UNKNOWN]: Um, communicate lines of communication, uh, their methods of operating, right?
[UNKNOWN]: You can still, could have learned, even just if you took out a small group of them, you would still learn patterns and practices.
[UNKNOWN]: Exactly.
[UNKNOWN]: Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh
[UNKNOWN]: But this is where with Nate on the discord, I will, we were jokingly back and forth about Missaria and her ability to run an intelligence agency and how quickly you could stand up a continent wide intelligence agency.
[UNKNOWN]: I will say I agree with Nate in the sense that she used to have a network within King's Landing and especially around flea bottom.
[UNKNOWN]: that is now defunged and scattered, but the bones of it will still be around.
[UNKNOWN]: So that she doesn't have a line on these assassins is for me a little bit of a blind spot in film.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, absolutely, definitely.
[UNKNOWN]: Definitely, definitely.
[UNKNOWN]: Now, I wanted to talk really quickly about this idea of taking care of your,
[UNKNOWN]: Security forces, if you are an autocrat of some kind, if you're a singular ruler or you're a small hinta or something, I did a little bit of research in the political science thing.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not a political scientist by any means, just a little bit of internet reading.
[UNKNOWN]: I shouldn't even call it research.
[UNKNOWN]: That's an improper use of that word.
[UNKNOWN]: But I am aware that this is a thing.
[UNKNOWN]: And I learned a little bit of more information about this, where when a security force starts to realize that it's indispensable, but they're underpaid or not being paid, then as a tool of the regime,
[UNKNOWN]: It stops being the regime, like being one with the power, and it suddenly becomes an actor with its own leverage, separate another center of power within the entire makeup.
[UNKNOWN]: And there's a bunch of interesting history to and some scholarly research around this.
[UNKNOWN]: Aaron, if you're listening, rare and from radioactive ramblers, I know that you studied some political science.
[UNKNOWN]: So, you know, writing and correcting me if I'm wrong with stuff on this.
[UNKNOWN]: But we can go all the way back to a Roman Emperor, Septimus Severus from 193 to 2011, and on his deathbed, his advice to his sons, was deharmonious in rich the soldiers and scorn everybody else.
[UNKNOWN]: So like this idea of make sure that your security apparatus is well taken care of goes really far back.
[UNKNOWN]: In more recent times, there is a great paper, which I have not read.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm just citing it from the internet sources.
[UNKNOWN]: 1999 paper called Cooproofing its practices, its practice and consequence in the Middle East.
[UNKNOWN]: And there's this whole theory around coup-proofing like how do you stop your own security forces from overthrowing you?
[UNKNOWN]: You deliberately overpay them, you create parallel or redundant security agencies that check on each other.
[UNKNOWN]: Some rulers will favor family or ethnic or sectarian ties
[UNKNOWN]: rotating officers to prevent loyalty networks from being built up.
[UNKNOWN]: So there's a whole pattern in practice out there and in this 1999 paper, the author sort of details a bunch of those.
[UNKNOWN]: And then later, I didn't get the date of this book, but it's called the logic of political survival and it sort of uses game theory on this idea of
[UNKNOWN]: Every leader depends on a winning coalition who are the, what's the minimum number, what's the minimum group of backers that you need to stay in power?
[UNKNOWN]: And then if you're surviving as a ruler, you need to funnel goods and services and privilege and plunder to that small group of people, that minimum viable number of people to maintain your winning coalition.
[UNKNOWN]: And then the moment that those things stop flowing, then the theory predicts that the coalition
[UNKNOWN]: And primarily because loyalty was never ideological driven, it was always transactional.
[UNKNOWN]: And of course, you reinforce the transactional relationship by funneling all this plunder and privilege to those groups.
[UNKNOWN]: So there's a whole bunch of history as well as academic research on this whole idea of if you're
[UNKNOWN]: a ruler, an independent ruler, non-democraticly elected ruler, and you're running some sort of autocratic state, not taking care of your security forces is a very, very quick way to get yourself deposed.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think we see a lot of that confrontation between Masaria and
[UNKNOWN]: people are starting to complain, hey, things are order, good order is starting to break down.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, our children are going missing, you know, we're seeing gold cloaks getting murdered now we're afraid.
[UNKNOWN]: And so now you're compounding, now the situation is compounded, not only all the small folk hungry and sort of, you know,
[UNKNOWN]: in a volatile situation themselves, now the thing that's keeping the whole system in balance and in order is starting to break down.
[UNKNOWN]: And so now you're in a real death spiral, unless you can hold it, bring it together and bring in some more, you know, and in this case, Allison's best, not, sorry, not Allison, Reneer is betting on.
[UNKNOWN]: uh... uh... some forces from blaria you know the blaring forces to come in and maybe uh... help stabilize things anyway uh... thanks again for coming to my might need you to talk exactly
[UNKNOWN]: We now have a little bit of a scene between Alan and Coralis.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's say I've got a little audio clip for this to set this up.
[UNKNOWN]: Do as you have said, her needs are endless.
[UNKNOWN]: If you're not exhausted you're under yet, you take her side.
[UNKNOWN]: When she refuses to grant you legitimacy, and how many years will it take you to do the same?
[UNKNOWN]: What do you make of this conversation between father and son?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's an engineer and engineer.
[UNKNOWN]: He keeps meeting when I say he, I mean, Coralist, he keeps meeting to hear the same thing.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, you're casting blame at everyone else, except yourself.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, how dare you talk about
[UNKNOWN]: legitimacy and what was not given to you by someone else.
[UNKNOWN]: When you yourself spent decades denying my existence.
[UNKNOWN]: Right, that was a real kind of sick burn from hell in there.
[UNKNOWN]: Refusing to recognize me.
[UNKNOWN]: I want my brother to you.
[UNKNOWN]: Right, like the nerve of you to even mention that and to use that as a way of saying, you know, I, I,
[UNKNOWN]: And to use what Reynara did, and denying them the name Valeria, as saying, I've been slided.
[UNKNOWN]: My family we've been slided.
[UNKNOWN]: When you yourself have slided your family for decades, takes a whole lot of fucking balls.
[UNKNOWN]: to stand in front of the one of the ones who you slide it for decades and cast that blame on someone else.
[UNKNOWN]: And Allen is like, no, no, no, no, we're not doing that.
[UNKNOWN]: Don't use me as an excuse for what you're doing.
[UNKNOWN]: I then Europe out here.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, yeah, we have a security situation out here that needs to be attended to.
[UNKNOWN]: But you're out here, exercising your own personal ego hurt by stringing these guys up, you know?
[UNKNOWN]: And getting your anger out at the point of a blade in the end of a, of a news.
[UNKNOWN]: You wanna know, don't, don't, you, that's messed up, man, like that's not how, that's that a healthy exercise of unload unpacking your feelings and it's working through your emotional responses to things.
[UNKNOWN]: Right, and it's, it's more upsetting because he's doing it because he's saying that you deny something to my sons.
[UNKNOWN]: That he's using them as the excuse.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: And that is what is inferior.
[UNKNOWN]: He's not even recognizing or he refuses to admit his own role and everything that is happening because if he would have recognized his sons earlier in their lives none of this would
[UNKNOWN]: And then later we get a moment where he's like, oh, okay, I've spent my anger, my ego feels better for having, you know.
[UNKNOWN]: killed a whole bunch of people.
[UNKNOWN]: Rayleigh are wrongly.
[UNKNOWN]: Now, I feel better now.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm going to go back and be the hand again.
[UNKNOWN]: And then he gets caught by a stick.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, dude.
[UNKNOWN]: Man, you, you, you, you, you.
[UNKNOWN]: Man, it's, talk about people in their own way, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Game in their own way.
[UNKNOWN]: And see sneak has been getting in his own way.
[UNKNOWN]: This entire season.
[UNKNOWN]: it'll be interesting to see what happens when they get him back to Tumbledon.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think we talked about this earlier in the pod if I can remember all the way from military that you and I are assuming that Coralis is alive.
[UNKNOWN]: This is just another, yeah, good.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I think they left it ambiguous just for a little bit of tension, that little bit of drama, but as far as I'm concerned, this is because we heard Ormond
[UNKNOWN]: drop a note earlier about or at some point in this episode.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, earlier in this episode about Coralus Valari and being a good guy, you know, like, oh, they're a family and, you know, I hate to use this word about well-bred, right?
[UNKNOWN]: He recognizes the Valariens is being ethnically racially
[UNKNOWN]: Not, you know, not Targaryen.
[UNKNOWN]: Not Targaryen, right?
[UNKNOWN]: That's not Targaryen.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, the high-towers thing is just there are Targaryens and there's us.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's the bottom line.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: And these belongings are not Targaryens.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, yes, they're not Targaryen.
[UNKNOWN]: Real quick, not a full TED talk, but the idea of displaying corpses
[UNKNOWN]: As a political tool, this also goes back a very long way.
[UNKNOWN]: Obviously, there's the individual punishment, but then you're signaling to the general population a message of some kind.
[UNKNOWN]: We can go, we can certainly go back to the Roman Empire again, and crucifixion was a common practice.
[UNKNOWN]: One interesting thing I read about was after the Spartacus
[UNKNOWN]: and crucified them along the Appian way, all the way from Capua to Rome.
[UNKNOWN]: So as you're walking down this road, which is like one of the main roads into Rome,
[UNKNOWN]: It's just lined with dudes that were crucified.
[UNKNOWN]: Vlad the impeller is another big person that we could say, 20,000 impaled corpses as he's retreating against the Ottoman onslaught.
[UNKNOWN]: And he's using this as a kind of psychological warfare in within a warfare setting.
[UNKNOWN]: We have in England jibiting or gibiting, depending on your persuasion, GIF or GIF, you know, who knows.
[UNKNOWN]: It was even put into legal codes.
[UNKNOWN]: There's the murderers Act of 1751, and I believe that there was another one that was later I didn't note it.
[UNKNOWN]: But they would hang people in chains, murderers, traitors, pirates, highwaymen.
[UNKNOWN]: They were hung in iron cages or chains from gallows as like structures at crossroads, waterways, other high traffic locations.
[UNKNOWN]: I think they even put pirates in the tembs, river, and that would be, as the tide would come in and out, you would see their, you know, chained bodies, and then the tide would come in, you wouldn't see them, and then the tide would go out and you'd see them again.
[UNKNOWN]: Not only, and we see it earlier with the rat catchers and King's Landing.
[UNKNOWN]: So this idea of displaying corpses as a social and political tool is also again well documented throughout human history.
[UNKNOWN]: And then I think we even get into the whole
[UNKNOWN]: American part of it, which in, you know, we call it the whole thing of strange fruit, which was the Abel Mirpool, 1937 song, which was inspired by a photograph from 1930's
[UNKNOWN]: lynching of Thomas, ship, and Abraham Smith in Marion, Indiana, and how that has formed a part of American racial history, and I'm curious, I was texting with Raw on the other day to see if they were going to be talking about this idea a little bit in their coverage.
[UNKNOWN]: I think I would take the American lynching as a separate thing, because oftentimes, you know,
[UNKNOWN]: the crucifixions, the apian way.
[UNKNOWN]: Those were done not in community.
[UNKNOWN]: American lynchings were done in community.
[UNKNOWN]: Ah, that's an inch, oh, right, right.
[UNKNOWN]: It was a big difference.
[UNKNOWN]: This is in group signaling, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, this was a community gathering.
[UNKNOWN]: Interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: kill someone.
[UNKNOWN]: And the firm community values.
[UNKNOWN]: And to some a firm power.
[UNKNOWN]: Correct.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: So for the entire community.
[UNKNOWN]: Interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: So I think the previous the examples you gave of Vlad and you know, even ghibiting and you know, the Appian way, who were to submit
[UNKNOWN]: political power.
[UNKNOWN]: This is what will happen if you revolt against us.
[UNKNOWN]: Legal power.
[UNKNOWN]: Here's a code of, here's our law is codified.
[UNKNOWN]: Lentchings were, this is what we collectively do to these people.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a different, it's a different thing, I think.
[UNKNOWN]: It is still signaling.
[UNKNOWN]: No, it's still signaling, but very, but for different purposes.
[UNKNOWN]: That's a very different purpose.
[UNKNOWN]: It's very different purposes.
[UNKNOWN]: Good.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, yeah, that's an aspect I didn't consider, and I think that's an important
[UNKNOWN]: Let's move on from that strange conversation.
[UNKNOWN]: Three men in a body.
[UNKNOWN]: What was that?
[UNKNOWN]: Three men in a body.
[UNKNOWN]: I was trying to come up with a little title for this one.
[UNKNOWN]: Big and lyrous and Tyler and Barry Sarduch.
[UNKNOWN]: And Tyler can't tell us to.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, I guess that was so, oh, that was so hard to watch.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm him and all.
[UNKNOWN]: Tyler was fighting for his life.
[UNKNOWN]: He was fighting for his life, not to tell you, I like, yeah, you are terrible person.
[UNKNOWN]: Like you go out, one of the most horrible is persons that I've ever encountered in my life.
[UNKNOWN]: That the realm has ever seen on the scale of one to ten of horrible.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, about a 15 bro.
[UNKNOWN]: He was fighting for his life, not to say that.
[UNKNOWN]: And Jefferson Hall's like stumbling trail in that of like, oh, well, well, we're all, we all are not great people.
[UNKNOWN]: We all have our flaws.
[UNKNOWN]: It's brilliant, absolutely brilliant writing and interesting that egg on, okay, now we're not rehabilitating
[UNKNOWN]: but we see some character growth because he goes with the guy who's speaking straight truth to him, not the guy who can't speak truth to him.
[UNKNOWN]: Now personally, I think castly rock would be a better place for him to go.
[UNKNOWN]: Stay on the continent, be to big, impenetrable castle, lots of gold, call the other houses to you here.
[UNKNOWN]: place to operate out of in terms of affecting what's going on in in West Rose.
[UNKNOWN]: That's my right.
[UNKNOWN]: No, I kind of agree with you.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, you want to stay in in the realm to affirm your your rule.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Position.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, yes.
[UNKNOWN]: I kind of agree with that.
[UNKNOWN]: So, but interesting that he goes with Larris in the sense that Thailand can't
[UNKNOWN]: can't stand on his own two feet in the face of this.
[UNKNOWN]: Like you see, if you can't, what else will you cave to?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: When push comes to show.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, hey, God is doing these calculations in his head, I think.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: If I go there, maybe they'll just give me up anyway.
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: How many other people are going to be?
[UNKNOWN]: The whole apparatus around me is going to be.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: bending this way.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think it's interesting that the time with Leris is sharpening Aegon in a way, right?
[UNKNOWN]: He's starting to think about things beyond all of this whole experience of being a commoner and having to live like a commoner and kiss muddy boots.
[UNKNOWN]: We're starting to affect him and then Leris
[UNKNOWN]: Let's say Aegon had not been so gravely injured and was able body at this point, but going through the same things, would that signal to him a change?
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think so.
[UNKNOWN]: matters more to him than the road that he's on, because I think if he was able to swing a sword, we wouldn't be saying what we're saying.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, great, great.
[UNKNOWN]: So it's not so much the experience on the road, but how he's experiencing the experience.
[UNKNOWN]: Interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Give that makes sense.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, John, like all of us, we all have our opinions, and I'm trying to do a time until the last time.
[UNKNOWN]: It's okay.
[UNKNOWN]: It's all right.
[UNKNOWN]: No, no, no.
[UNKNOWN]: I do.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's an interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm trying to get my head around what you're saying is because he's reflecting on the experience of what he's having an experience.
[UNKNOWN]: He has lots about the experience and he's having thoughts about the thoughts of the experience.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and I think we all do that.
[UNKNOWN]: That is how we see each other.
[UNKNOWN]: How I see myself is how I imagine you see me.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not actually how you see me.
[UNKNOWN]: It's what I think about what you think.
[UNKNOWN]: based on what I'm observing of you, but it's not an actual direct thing.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a little bit of a mirror trick.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Again, I just think if he was able to ride a horse, you know, ably, if he was able to pick up a sword and swing it with...
[UNKNOWN]: Still dispossessed, but not...
[UNKNOWN]: Still dispossessed.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, still dispossessed.
[UNKNOWN]: On the run from...
[UNKNOWN]: the forces that are out to get him.
[UNKNOWN]: But he was able to, in some ways, stand and fight.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if his views on things would have shifted from when he was sitting on the throne.
[UNKNOWN]: It would just be right.
[UNKNOWN]: He'd just be pissed.
[UNKNOWN]: He'd be more bloody Benjamin.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And he might well go to Castile Rock, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Because he would feel like I can defend myself.
[UNKNOWN]: I think a lot of this is him recognizing that he is defenseless.
[UNKNOWN]: He has a hard thing for him to come to because of where he started, right?
[UNKNOWN]: He has no dragon, and he can barely hold a sword.
[UNKNOWN]: And he's suddenly without all of the context of his privilege of ringing.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if you've ever had to dig a ditch or a hole, but it's a hard thing to do.
[UNKNOWN]: There's a hard thing to do.
[UNKNOWN]: When that's me, why?
[UNKNOWN]: Don't, there's a hard thing to do to dig a ditch.
[UNKNOWN]: Don't ask me why I did it.
[UNKNOWN]: That shovel that Thailand was using?
[UNKNOWN]: Oh my God.
[UNKNOWN]: That looked like the worst, absolutely worst, she's helpful to try to do.
[UNKNOWN]: So I do not regret Jim.
[UNKNOWN]: And it wasn't shallow.
[UNKNOWN]: It wasn't very deep.
[UNKNOWN]: Tylin has not dug a lot of ditches.
[UNKNOWN]: No, that's for sure.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it wasn't very deep at all.
[UNKNOWN]: It wasn't very deep.
[UNKNOWN]: And he was using a shitty tool, so.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it does.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's do this.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's take another quick break.
[UNKNOWN]: And then when we come back, let's talk about one as the loneliest number.
[UNKNOWN]: Thanks for watching!
[UNKNOWN]: and we're back.
[UNKNOWN]: One is the Lonely's number.
[UNKNOWN]: Reina sees two dragons flying past in the distance from her cave.
[UNKNOWN]: And then later, later, later, later, later, what did you call her?
[UNKNOWN]: Lady Jane.
[UNKNOWN]: Jane, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me
[UNKNOWN]: made the episode wobble a little bit for me, because I literally blinked and missed the two dragons flying.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: So the next thing I know, rain is in, you know, the earie, and she's talking about trying to fly after sister and all this time is like, what is this?
[UNKNOWN]: And then I caught it on my, my rewatch.
[UNKNOWN]: So, you know, and maybe maybe it worked for other people, but this is sort of what it just felt like,
[UNKNOWN]: they had this little scene and then they just cut and dropped it in and it just didn't make a lot of sense for me.
[UNKNOWN]: I get the stakes and I'm all for the fact that everybody's on pins and needles here because what happens if linear finds out because then a lot of people are in a lot of hot
[UNKNOWN]: I feel so bad for Raina at this point, you know, she's in the cave eating wild berries.
[UNKNOWN]: I think there's an influencer who would probably like to model her gosh.
[UNKNOWN]: It's just, yeah, where she is now how far she's fallen is really troubling for me.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think this is part of the reason why I don't like the mixture of Reina and Nettles.
[UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: Is this a place where it's not working out for you?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, why?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, because I just don't, I don't feel that Reina, I don't know if the word the way to describe it deserves this.
[UNKNOWN]: Treatment from her character, perspective.
[UNKNOWN]: But I just, I can't feel that this is right for her.
[UNKNOWN]: It feels a little, a little off.
[UNKNOWN]: It does.
[UNKNOWN]: It was starting to go in an interesting direction, and now they've kind of,
[UNKNOWN]: Like her little speech, like, oh, I gave up, you know, I always wanted to drag in, and now I got one, and now I got nothing.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, we kind of already know that, so I don't know why I don't know what the scene is doing or what it's for.
[UNKNOWN]: Aside from a side from making me feel angry at Jane, right?
[UNKNOWN]: For throwing some poor bastard down the moon door again.
[UNKNOWN]: That's the human sacrifice that that's what they do.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's just call it for what it is.
[UNKNOWN]: And also, you know, for slapping Raina in that world, you know, I don't know what that was supposed to do for me as a viewer.
[UNKNOWN]: Except in rage me, but I'm already in rage on Raina's behalf.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't need that to further, you know, galvanize me to see how much she's suffering.
[UNKNOWN]: It just feels like this whole scene, this too much.
[UNKNOWN]: It's at a place, it doesn't make, it doesn't fit.
[UNKNOWN]: It's just too much, for me, it's just too much.
[UNKNOWN]: It was too much for me.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not disagreeing.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, then we have two can be as bad as one.
[UNKNOWN]: It's the lonelyest number since the number one.
[UNKNOWN]: a little song there by three dog night looks like Alan is putting his brother Adam in the friend zone pushing him aside because yeah he's been saying that share a moment in the pilots ready room yeah that that that friend zone was established like in episode two
[UNKNOWN]: And we'd be an honest about it all.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: We already saw where it was headed, so.
[UNKNOWN]: But this is the other scene that didn't kind of make sense for me in a way, in the moment, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I didn't feel the chemistry.
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't feel the setup.
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't feel like this was where they were going to.
[UNKNOWN]: I get it.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't disagree with it.
[UNKNOWN]: I understand how the characters might be feeling in this moment and they have a lot of stuff in common.
[UNKNOWN]: But for me, it just didn't connect.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I felt I felt the chemistry in the episode two.
[UNKNOWN]: Did you, okay, maybe I missed it.
[UNKNOWN]: Maybe I missed it.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I felt that from the very beginning when there was a screen together in the season.
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, I felt that was pretty evident.
[UNKNOWN]: It was the doughin' in last episode with Alan.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I did work out.
[UNKNOWN]: With Adam, excuse me, with Adam,
[UNKNOWN]: was like, oh, what did they try to set up here?
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: But I already felt like the two of them were going to get together at some point.
[UNKNOWN]: OK.
[UNKNOWN]: I wasn't reading it.
[UNKNOWN]: And so that maybe that's just a me thing then.
[UNKNOWN]: I wasn't seeing them lay in the tracks for this particular relationship.
[UNKNOWN]: Anyway, I don't know that the pilots ready room there and the dragon pit is the best place to have a moment.
[UNKNOWN]: It's got a smell down there.
[UNKNOWN]: It doesn't, you know, it's like hot and humid and I just not a place that I would wanna, you know, get comfy with somebody I was close to.
[UNKNOWN]: They do love their dragons.
[UNKNOWN]: All right, well.
[UNKNOWN]: Moving on, let's talk about Alice and Amons.
[UNKNOWN]: Alice tries to dissaduce Amon and then later Amon tries to leave, pour one out for our stable boy.
[UNKNOWN]: God, then Alice comes clean with a few dragons.
[UNKNOWN]: eggs.
[UNKNOWN]: What did you make of this whole thing?
[UNKNOWN]: Do we do?
[UNKNOWN]: I think we finally have a a clear view of what Alice is ultimate goal power power power right as that's everyone else.
[UNKNOWN]: She wants to to usher in a new Targaryen dynasty.
[UNKNOWN]: Which I thought was an interesting reference, and I don't know, maybe some of our maesters can chime in and let us know what they think of Alice, Alice Rivers calling herself Lady of Water.
[UNKNOWN]: She doesn't, you know, and I thought she was going to go for the whole like, oh, I'm water in your fire, but she just says to him, you're a dragon writer.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's open that.
[UNKNOWN]: I do like this idea that Vigar flew away to protect Eman, but then my question is, did Alice make Vigar go?
[UNKNOWN]: Does she have some sort of fair day cage and can block the dragon Wi-Fi?
[UNKNOWN]: So Vigar is like, well, I don't know where my dude is.
[UNKNOWN]: So I'm just going to go eat some sheep and you know, he's like that.
[UNKNOWN]: I like that.
[UNKNOWN]: Because she's connected, right?
[UNKNOWN]: She's plugged in.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I listed do some magic bamboo polish it I like that I like that No, we have these five eggs from dream fire right that's Helena's dragon
[UNKNOWN]: And dreamfire apparently is known for having done this, just cruising around west roast and dropping clutches of eggs here and there.
[UNKNOWN]: So this is not, for the book readers, I suspect that this is not unexpected in terms of expected behavior of dreamfire.
[UNKNOWN]: No, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's interesting that she has the clutch, and that she uses the clutch to lure a mountain.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if she didn't have the eggs that it would have worked.
[UNKNOWN]: I agree.
[UNKNOWN]: That was that sealed the deal.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: That's your video.
[UNKNOWN]: And she told that she, you know, she took the eggs out at the, it was so well planned.
[UNKNOWN]: All right, she was so well planned.
[UNKNOWN]: You're just to find out.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, she, she's so good.
[UNKNOWN]: She was so good.
[UNKNOWN]: This was really, you know, high level manipulation.
[UNKNOWN]: Now wonderful to see going back to the theories that her being, what did we call it last week?
[UNKNOWN]: We needed a verb being damseled.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, yes.
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't, they didn't say that it wasn't a trick, but they didn't say that it wasn't a, you know what I'm saying?
[UNKNOWN]: It was like, and in some ways, the way that she said, oh, it was so nice to feel protected or what I forget to give you the exact quote.
[UNKNOWN]: I was like, oh, okay, I think that was a bit of a set, maybe those dudes were real.
[UNKNOWN]: And maybe the danger was real, but she was, she was riding the wave.
[UNKNOWN]: I think maybe she, like I'll, I'll carry a little bit of water in that direction and just say maybe that was a real circumstance, and she played it for a greater purpose.
[UNKNOWN]: In the moment, right, she figured out, okay, well, I'm gonna use this and, right, these guy, like I actually am not in danger.
[UNKNOWN]: Right, but I'm gonna make Amen think that he's in danger.
[UNKNOWN]: Not that the entire thing was engineered, that it was a real thing, and then she was like, oh, cool, I can play this.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: At a minimum, like, I'm giving her that.
[UNKNOWN]: I would agree.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it does, this scene to me does give more validity to the idea that.
[UNKNOWN]: the previous episode, she was also been the pre-lating payment.
[UNKNOWN]: Exactly.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, so I totally buy what everyone was saying it was the case that she was not damsel, but she was manipulating the situation.
[UNKNOWN]: to our own vantage.
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, I agree.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's wrap up the episode and spend a little time with G Wayne and Ormond down in Tumbletown.
[UNKNOWN]: They, uh, G Wayne reports in and they have a little moment here
[UNKNOWN]: Ormend compliments Corlis for Larian, and then they play host to the assassins.
[UNKNOWN]: I've got a little audio clip for this as well.
[UNKNOWN]: Wait, what I am going to with him, the puppet, before the tribe.
[UNKNOWN]: And as he means, you're on the throne, apparently.
[UNKNOWN]: Only as he comes sit on it himself.
[UNKNOWN]: He gives trust and forward and devout me from within until there's nothing left to tell him.
[UNKNOWN]: You won't do it.
[UNKNOWN]: Then it will protect me then.
[UNKNOWN]: Will you raise an army?
[UNKNOWN]: I need to serve it, isn't it?
[UNKNOWN]: So there was a moment where Darren shoots G Wayne a look when they're talking and I was like, oh, what is that look?
[UNKNOWN]: It was fire.
[UNKNOWN]: It was absolutely amazing complicated emotional response.
[UNKNOWN]: like directed at Wayne.
[UNKNOWN]: And I was like, oh, wait, what are they hinting at?
[UNKNOWN]: And then later they pay it off when they walked on the hallway.
[UNKNOWN]: And I was like, oh, okay.
[UNKNOWN]: So they actually are connected in July.
[UNKNOWN]: So that all makes sense.
[UNKNOWN]: What did you make of the relationship, especially the way that we've been talking about Darren and his relationship with Ormond?
[UNKNOWN]: What did you take away from this?
[UNKNOWN]: Just that everyone in the house knows.
[UNKNOWN]: And Allison really fucked up.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a real toxic household.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: G-wane and they're on.
[UNKNOWN]: They are, like, sympathical when seeing Oman.
[UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm sure that Oman tormented G-wane.
[UNKNOWN]: Especially because of Gwane's orientation.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: in which we see some really nasty shots and bars get throwing his way back against the wall is funny because I didn't actually pick up on uh goings or you know there's there's nothing no I don't remember seeing any specific signaling yeah I don't I don't I think that's the point right then why should there be exactly you know why why should we know
[UNKNOWN]: You know, people are people, and they were in throws some really nasty thoughts on them.
[UNKNOWN]: Disgusting things, I said, and but watching, doing and they're on talking these hush tones about warm on, just really, you know, it encapsulates everything that that person is.
[UNKNOWN]: They are, I think they're definitely afraid of them, of his temper, of what his temper will allow him to do and what people around him will allow him to do.
[UNKNOWN]: And he's groomed there on, so I don't want to say well, but he's frightened this kid so badly.
[UNKNOWN]: that the power imbalance is just striking.
[UNKNOWN]: All mine is not in lines for the throne.
[UNKNOWN]: There is no way.
[UNKNOWN]: If they were raised outside of old town, right, away from high towers, all mine could never talk to, could never behave in the way that he's behaving towards their on at King's Landing.
[UNKNOWN]: in the court, right?
[UNKNOWN]: It would not be allowed.
[UNKNOWN]: It just wouldn't be allowed, but he's so perfectly, you know, stymied his growth that the person who would be king is looking at this person as if they are the king and I have no power over them.
[UNKNOWN]: That's some shit, man.
[UNKNOWN]: You know,
[UNKNOWN]: and uncle of who would be king, the brother of the queen of the king would be king's mother, right?
[UNKNOWN]: The uncle to the would be king.
[UNKNOWN]: It's saying I can't do anything to stop this guy.
[UNKNOWN]: Why?
[UNKNOWN]: Why not?
[UNKNOWN]: Like the Jewane and Ormond are cousins, right?
[UNKNOWN]: But yes, Ormond is the of the head of the house.
[UNKNOWN]: But that doesn't matter in relation to the hierarchy of Westeros.
[UNKNOWN]: It shouldn't matter to them.
[UNKNOWN]: But it does.
[UNKNOWN]: And wouldn't she be in a better position given that he is the uncle to the Prince?
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, yes, yes.
[UNKNOWN]: And brother to the former Queen Regent.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: And what uncle to Aegon?
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, uncle to Aegon as well.
[UNKNOWN]: So he's in a real strong position, but instead he was like, well, I'm going to bounce out for a little bit because this is more of a man to have to do anything.
[UNKNOWN]: I can't handle this.
[UNKNOWN]: And there, it's like, bro, you left me alone with this guy.
[UNKNOWN]: Great, up left me, f-u for that.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I still love you and I still need you, but damn it, man.
[UNKNOWN]: How could you do that to me?
[UNKNOWN]: So what must have been done, or squid?
[UNKNOWN]: What are the things that we're not seeing?
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: The things that we haven't seen.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and I see it in with the way the rocks didn't, a couple episodes ago just picked up the chair after a moment had his tangent.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: He was just like, he was just so calm and normal about it.
[UNKNOWN]: He was so normalized with that extreme reaction.
[UNKNOWN]: That tells me, that tells me so much.
[UNKNOWN]: that is scary.
[UNKNOWN]: And I love this little flip, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Ormond may see himself as an, you know, intellectually
[UNKNOWN]: superior with his historical knowledge and his scheming and that kind of stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: But G-Wane, boy, my boy can fight.
[UNKNOWN]: Right?
[UNKNOWN]: He probably take one month in the fight.
[UNKNOWN]: I think straight up.
[UNKNOWN]: But he would take him.
[UNKNOWN]: He is experienced.
[UNKNOWN]: He is a survivor of many, many battles.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: And I love the little shot that he says, oh, the real dudes way more cumley than this guy, where he was like, okay, he would have thrown that on my face.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I just saved your, I don't care, I don't care.
[UNKNOWN]: And I, because I know, because I paid attention to the fact that the other guys actually a little bit hotter than this guy.
[UNKNOWN]: And not, and not only that is just like, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: looking at him.
[UNKNOWN]: He's dead because of me.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, there was so much, you know, in, in that moment.
[UNKNOWN]: When he's looking at it all month, growing up, you know, like, yeah, come on.
[UNKNOWN]: This guy has been on a battlefield before.
[UNKNOWN]: Not like G-Wain has, you know, he's not walked at all a mile in what G-Wain's accomplished.
[UNKNOWN]: And yet there's definitely afraid of him.
[UNKNOWN]: It was interesting that Darren actually, who did Darren goes to stop, I guess, Rockston from interfering with G-Wain, right?
[UNKNOWN]: He doesn't get, he puts his hands on Rockston to slow him down for a second, not
[UNKNOWN]: But I love, I didn't pick up on this until my second watch.
[UNKNOWN]: But I clocked it the first watch, but it didn't click for me that Raniera sent the assassins.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: But me them get smelly intentionally intentionally to to set uh, orphaned back so that he would be uh, a little bit off foot in the meeting.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: And I thought that was a really brilliant little strategy among unrenuous part.
[UNKNOWN]: Like that's good looking out.
[UNKNOWN]: And they didn't know that G Wayne would be there.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think it was a good plan except for the fact that G. It's definitely going to.
[UNKNOWN]: And then now I'm really conflicted about G-Wane because I think G-Wane's one of my favorite characters of all of our menu of options here, except he's a high tower.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh my God.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Because he's great.
[UNKNOWN]: He's just, I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: I really enjoy everything that they're giving us with his character.
[UNKNOWN]: All right, well, I think that's the sum of the episode.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm sure there's a little few bits and pieces that we've missed along the way.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm just looking up.
[UNKNOWN]: Freddie Fox is the name of Goyne Itowers, the actor is playing Goyne Itowers.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't recognize him from anything else.
[UNKNOWN]: I hope we get to see him some more.
[UNKNOWN]: I've been enjoying what he's got going on.
[UNKNOWN]: All right, Jean, we are gonna come back on Thursday,
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Hopefully my cough will have a recipe by then.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm getting pretty sick of it.
[UNKNOWN]: But I've got some I got some coughs to press it now and hopefully that'll kind of help me get through.
[UNKNOWN]: So if you got some insights for us, we've got some research topics that are open that I'd
[UNKNOWN]: or if some of our takes make you think or react in some way we would love to hear from you.
[UNKNOWN]: We definitely give priority to emails and voicemails so those are the best ways to send in your thoughts and we'll scoop up some stuff from the discord as well.
[UNKNOWN]: Our hand of the pod and Nancy is ever present and will shape all of your feedback into an easy to use document for us.
[UNKNOWN]: And then we are closing in on the season.
[UNKNOWN]: Question is, is the
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, boy.
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
[UNKNOWN]: Because they're not following traditional patterns necessarily with where they're chopping seasons.
[UNKNOWN]: I think we got a cliffhanger.
[UNKNOWN]: All right.
[UNKNOWN]: Did you hear anything?
[UNKNOWN]: I haven't done any sort of
[UNKNOWN]: wider research is season four already in the bag or they already in production on it that I don't know but we can take on that by the time of you know who I would know Alicia I'm sure Alicia if you're at this far the podcast if you make a note of this and just give us maybe a quick note in your feedback for this week.
[UNKNOWN]: I'd be the guy in the snow.
[UNKNOWN]: The scripts are being written as we speak.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, okay.
[UNKNOWN]: You did a quick search.
[UNKNOWN]: That's from a quick Google.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: All right.
[UNKNOWN]: So hopefully we won't have to wait two years.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, well, I think we are going to have to.
[UNKNOWN]: No, we're going to be.
[UNKNOWN]: It's going to be two years.
[UNKNOWN]: It'll be 28.
[UNKNOWN]: It's interesting to pattern, right?
[UNKNOWN]: We're starting to get the annual shows and then the sort of buy and try annual shows.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: The big more prestigious things.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, we're in a very changing, ever changing environment and I think we're living through an age where they're reinventing, you know, we're reinventing this whole thing with streaming.
[UNKNOWN]: Because these things are, these are a prestige show like this, it's ginormous, it's induction, it's go open, filming, and stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: different from the pit where you can just sort of turn that stuff out.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, not gonna understand, you know, the, the links that you wait for, the house of the dragons.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I get it.
[UNKNOWN]: Rings a power, same thing we've got.
[UNKNOWN]: We have a pack again this year.
[UNKNOWN]: Exactly.
[UNKNOWN]: Uh, and you know what, we got coming up, lanterns.
[UNKNOWN]: We, uh, also if you are a vampire, let's stop, fan, go check out our coverage.
[UNKNOWN]: They've wrapped up on that.
[UNKNOWN]: I believe, but so all of the podcasts are out.
[UNKNOWN]: It'll be interesting to hear what John and Alicia think of us.
[UNKNOWN]: He did you drop in on that, too?
[UNKNOWN]: You, you, too.
[UNKNOWN]: I have to.
[UNKNOWN]: No, but I have watched the first two seasons of interview with the vampire.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, so the preceding seasons.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: Gotcha.
[UNKNOWN]: I need to take some time.
[UNKNOWN]: I've given myself two weeks, between season two and season three so I can process what I've watched.
[UNKNOWN]: God.
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, both John and Alicia can't stop gushing about the show.
[UNKNOWN]: So.
[UNKNOWN]: And I didn't mean that in a vamp sort of blood gushing way, so maybe that's what I was in the back of my mind trying to do that.
[UNKNOWN]: I see you have super girl on the schedule.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, we're going to talk about Supergirl today.
[UNKNOWN]: Yay.
[UNKNOWN]: And you got some X-Men 97.
[UNKNOWN]: You're going to do a season two one shot coming up.
[UNKNOWN]: Yep.
[UNKNOWN]: And also we're about to do Spider-Man brand new day, which comes out this weekend.
[UNKNOWN]: So tracking on that is crazy.
[UNKNOWN]: I think he's going to be about the Odyssey.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if it will blow out the Odyssey, but it might.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm going to take over on that.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it might.
[UNKNOWN]: It might very well.
[UNKNOWN]: So a big movie year.
[UNKNOWN]: And then of course we've got Dune 3 coming out later this year.
[UNKNOWN]: So we got a lot of heavy duty blockbusters.
[UNKNOWN]: play face screens for those, you know, so inclined for them.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, we're the side of Superhero movies, so yeah, it's going to be a good year.
[UNKNOWN]: A lot of variety.
[UNKNOWN]: I believe a Joan is going to be organizing some Odyssey coverage speaking of that.
[UNKNOWN]: Alicia is.
[UNKNOWN]: in the middle of her silo season and her and Luke are deep in the deep in the levels there.
[UNKNOWN]: Never mind the music.
[UNKNOWN]: Just had their hundreds special episode.
[UNKNOWN]: I had a conversation with them about that.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, just started at this morning.
[UNKNOWN]: And I believe Cosmere Corner is just around the corner.
[UNKNOWN]: Wait, why am I doing all these like bad pun things this year?
[UNKNOWN]: I need to get out of here.
[UNKNOWN]: I can
[UNKNOWN]: So anyway, let's give a quick shout out to all of our community, to our community volunteers, hand to the pod, Nancy, Master of Poles, Captain of the Poles here on Peter O. H. Keeper of the Tracker, Sub-Zero, Lorberian, Brian 863 and moderators, Brian 863 and Aaron K.
[UNKNOWN]: Our Discord server, boosters, Aaron K. Tilleros Filler, doves 71, Athena Agilea, Lestu, Nancy M, Ghost of Partition, radioactive Richard, and Adrienne.
[UNKNOWN]: And to our loremasters, our top tier subscribers, Samarshan, Michael G, Michelle E, SC, Peter OH, Nancy M, do 71, Brian 863, Frederick H, Sarah L, Garcia, Andreby, Kwong
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[UNKNOWN]: Let's hope we're in exciting wrap up.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
[UNKNOWN]: How many episodes do we have left to?
[UNKNOWN]: Two.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, man.
[UNKNOWN]: All right, see you Thursday.
[UNKNOWN]: Peace.
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