WEBVTT 00:00.551 --> 00:06.595 [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, I'm Professor Beckstra, and I'm producer Britt, and this is The News. 00:16.441 --> 00:26.847 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the news road on your�ters because it's time to get up off your chair and hear the news without a case. 00:27.107 --> 00:29.028 [SPEAKER_00]: It's The News. 00:29.945 --> 00:45.272 [SPEAKER_00]: Wash away the blues, cause it's the breeze of new Surf's up, comrades! 00:45.392 --> 00:46.493 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Prison News! 00:46.993 --> 00:48.574 [SPEAKER_02]: I am Professor Beckstrauch. 00:48.894 --> 00:50.175 [SPEAKER_02]: That is producer Britt. 00:50.475 --> 00:52.336 [SPEAKER_02]: We are reporting the news together. 00:52.556 --> 00:52.856 [SPEAKER_01]: To you. 00:52.876 --> 00:54.116 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, hi, dudes. 00:55.357 --> 00:55.717 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, hi, dudes. 00:56.217 --> 00:56.738 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, we're grading. 00:57.038 --> 00:57.278 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 00:58.646 --> 01:02.689 [SPEAKER_02]: We were just before the podcast, we were talking about the best cereals. 01:03.910 --> 01:08.874 [SPEAKER_02]: Producer Britt and I were united in our front on what makes an ester cereal. 01:09.214 --> 01:15.179 [SPEAKER_02]: And we're of the opinion, the official opinion of the podcast, the three ester cereals. 01:16.700 --> 01:17.901 [SPEAKER_02]: Captain Crunch with Crunch berries. 01:18.122 --> 01:19.363 [SPEAKER_01]: Captain and toast Crunch. 01:20.023 --> 01:24.847 [SPEAKER_01]: And your addition, honey, nut Cheerios. 01:26.011 --> 01:26.411 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. 01:27.172 --> 01:45.228 [SPEAKER_01]: If you think that there is another cereal that can best those, although please, although technically, honeynut Cheerios is also a B-tier cereal, B-E-E-T cereal, because it's got to be as the last mascot. 01:56.883 --> 02:14.154 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, well, dear listener, if you think that there's an addition that we missed, something important that you think deserves consideration for that estuary of cereals, let us know at prison dot breakdown on Instagram or e-bronson at rw.edu. 02:16.796 --> 02:19.338 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're especially mad about it, that's where you send it. 02:20.123 --> 02:28.147 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, please don't hold back let's get to some news. 02:28.588 --> 02:29.688 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's get into it. 02:29.788 --> 02:30.228 [SPEAKER_01]: All right. 02:30.328 --> 02:41.014 [SPEAKER_01]: So our first news article a day is coming out of Wisconsin from news from the states Part of part of part of the way we roll about is this a newsletter. 02:41.274 --> 02:41.855 [SPEAKER_02]: What is this? 02:41.895 --> 02:46.217 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, it's a news from the states dot com part of states news room 02:47.700 --> 02:48.641 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's not real. 02:48.701 --> 02:49.862 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I know. 02:50.323 --> 02:50.623 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. 02:50.723 --> 02:50.964 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. 02:50.984 --> 02:52.185 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, is this AI news? 02:52.205 --> 02:54.888 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, just daffy stuff come on. 02:55.348 --> 02:59.713 [SPEAKER_01]: But it appears to be, you know, sourced in different places. 02:59.753 --> 03:01.215 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm, I'm going to hope it's real. 03:01.395 --> 03:08.563 [SPEAKER_01]: So article of this says Department of Corrections advocates clash over prison conditions after protest. 03:10.140 --> 03:21.546 [SPEAKER_01]: So amidst a heat wave in Madison, people who were once incarcerated in Wisconsin's prison system and supporters gathered Wednesday morning to protest outside the Wisconsin Department of Corrections Central Office. 03:22.326 --> 03:35.013 [SPEAKER_01]: Speaker supported a lower prison population better living conditions for incarcerated people in independent oversight of the prison system, which has been the target of criticism for a rash of deaths in custody as well as conditions of confinement in aging. 03:35.774 --> 03:37.317 [SPEAKER_01]: an understaffed facilities. 03:37.918 --> 03:45.794 [SPEAKER_01]: Mark Rice, a transformational justice campaign coordinator says quote, there's a severe overcrowding crisis in Wisconsin's prison system right now. 03:46.894 --> 03:54.760 [SPEAKER_01]: Right now, sorry, Rice said the crisis is creating dangerously on stable conditions for people who work in the prisons as well as incarcerated people. 03:55.601 --> 04:10.392 [SPEAKER_01]: In October, the state of Wisconsin building commission voted to release $15 million to prepare preliminary plans and a design report for a prison system revamp, a step towards large-scale structural change to the system of prison facilities. 04:11.713 --> 04:18.399 [SPEAKER_01]: Rice Urge people to get out in vote and said a voter should talk with candidates and elected officials about the state of Wisconsin's correction system. 04:18.579 --> 04:23.143 [SPEAKER_01]: He referenced his group wisdom's Governor-torial candidate for him last month. 04:24.183 --> 04:29.628 [SPEAKER_01]: Saying quote, I want to see candidates have the courage to set up and talk about these issues too on quote. 04:30.881 --> 04:41.384 [SPEAKER_01]: The Wisconsin Department of Corrections provided a detailed statement in response to a request for comment from the examiner, replying to the criticisms of Wisconsin's correction systems from activists. 04:42.544 --> 04:51.707 [SPEAKER_01]: The department first directed the examiner to the last four-state budgets proposed by Governor Tony Evers, who I actually campaigned for back in the day. 04:52.887 --> 04:57.889 [SPEAKER_01]: He's saying, quote, much of which were rejected by the Republican controlled legislator. 04:58.810 --> 05:01.713 [SPEAKER_01]: communications director Beth Hartke said. 05:02.775 --> 05:04.537 [SPEAKER_01]: Beyond that, she continued. 05:05.198 --> 05:12.546 [SPEAKER_01]: You will need to ask lawmakers what their plans are to address Wisconsin's corrections challenges and move our correctional system into the 21st century. 05:14.615 --> 05:38.218 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's an interesting point that you bring up there like we want to and we need to see more candidates actually raising these issues of what's going on in prisons, but with people first off people who are incarcerated in Wisconsin can't vote so that that's out of the picture like they know that they're not out there campaigning on behalf of people who we vote for them, which is something that many politicians will avoid. 05:38.798 --> 05:48.825 [SPEAKER_02]: like a national politician is not going to go if you're running for president you're not in your Republican you're not going to campaign in the blueist state of all because that might not be a good use of your time. 05:49.266 --> 05:50.727 [SPEAKER_02]: But it is such an important issue. 05:50.747 --> 05:59.833 [SPEAKER_02]: There's still people that they're stuck in shitty conditions and there needs to be people speaking on their behalf to make these conditions better. 06:01.967 --> 06:13.304 [SPEAKER_01]: and we need candidates speaking about this right one one thing i do appreciate about Wisconsin uh the enacted several years ago and i i think i was actually part of this campaign too with the Tony ever's thing was um 06:14.789 --> 06:27.218 [SPEAKER_01]: back in some time in the 2010s, maybe I think, they decided to do re-enfranchisement voting legislation. 06:27.358 --> 06:35.883 [SPEAKER_01]: So basically, ex-fellants, if they're not currently on parole or like supervision or anything like that, they can vote. 06:36.564 --> 06:37.645 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's great. 06:37.865 --> 06:39.906 [SPEAKER_01]: I think re-enfranchisement 06:43.048 --> 06:54.014 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, felon dysentrant, franchisemen, I think is antithetical to corrections in the first place and America really, it's like, democratic government. 06:54.134 --> 07:05.780 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's saying, hey, like, you're a citizen, you did your time for a crime, but you're still going to be penalized by not being able to advocate for yourself. 07:07.282 --> 07:15.246 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I remember years ago, having a long conversation with an ex girlfriend's dad about this, and he's like, no, if they committed murder, they shouldn't vote. 07:15.266 --> 07:18.807 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, yeah, but why does murder affect your ability to vote? 07:18.827 --> 07:21.208 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, why does it affect your ability to make decisions? 07:21.589 --> 07:24.810 [SPEAKER_02]: They're not going to pass like the, the let murderers had of prison act. 07:24.910 --> 07:27.291 [SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's, it's not anything to do with that. 07:27.571 --> 07:32.233 [SPEAKER_02]: You, your offense, unless you committed like voting fraud. 07:32.473 --> 07:35.855 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's not, it's not any effect on your ability to vote. 07:35.995 --> 07:52.550 [SPEAKER_01]: So, at least in Wisconsin, they did take that into account, and so all felons who have served their time and are no longer under any kind of supervision are allowed to vote unless they have been convicted of a felony level bribery or treason crime. 07:53.482 --> 07:59.245 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, treason is interesting and that you almost never hear of anybody getting charged with treason. 07:59.585 --> 08:00.725 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, and I'm surprised. 08:00.765 --> 08:09.209 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, well, you technically, I think now you are, you know, what's going on in Texas is basically they're trying people for treason for protesting. 08:09.229 --> 08:11.270 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, true. 08:12.310 --> 08:16.292 [SPEAKER_02]: Historically, it's been a very unused term in the courts. 08:16.812 --> 08:17.012 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 08:17.993 --> 08:19.514 [SPEAKER_02]: A very unused charge, I should say. 08:19.574 --> 08:20.014 [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm. 08:22.189 --> 08:34.682 [SPEAKER_02]: You don't see a lot of people committing treason because I think treason also under treasional definitions would take a lot of international connections and networking to carry out. 08:35.243 --> 08:41.329 [SPEAKER_01]: Right definitely and it treason I think also requires a certain amount of power in order to 08:42.750 --> 08:56.780 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, carry out like it's you can't really commit trees and if you're just like a regular blue collar worker Unless you're working in like a weapons factory or something and doing, I don't know Just messing stuff. 08:57.360 --> 08:58.721 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know exactly how you would. 08:58.761 --> 09:02.804 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's there's very few opportunities I think for treason. 09:03.800 --> 09:04.100 [SPEAKER_02]: totally. 09:04.381 --> 09:05.762 [SPEAKER_02]: It's all about opportunity and access. 09:05.802 --> 09:07.724 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like white collar and occupational crime. 09:08.044 --> 09:17.795 [SPEAKER_02]: You can't commit white collar crime and occupational crime unless you have the position to be able to like in bezel or commit forgery or whatever it is that you're you're trying to do. 09:18.315 --> 09:18.555 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 09:19.196 --> 09:26.043 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, your regular street level gangster has no opportunity whatsoever to ever come at treason. 09:26.364 --> 09:26.484 [SPEAKER_01]: So 09:27.496 --> 09:30.518 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, I completely agree. 09:30.818 --> 09:32.319 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's that's interesting. 09:32.660 --> 09:38.824 [SPEAKER_02]: And hopefully we see some action on the part of Wisconsin's government to, I mean, we prove prison condition. 09:38.864 --> 09:52.293 [SPEAKER_01]: It seems we have from the executive branch, however, the Republican-controlled Congress there is blocking everything because as we know, Republicans don't care about prisoners. 09:53.152 --> 10:00.338 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, historically it has been a lot of get tough measures and yeah Democrats are complicit in this as well. 10:00.358 --> 10:12.929 [SPEAKER_01]: They're not much better, but they're at least, you know, we at least have some Tony's Tony Evers and people who are actually trying to ameliorate conditions for prisoners, whereas Republicans are the ones vetoing and blocking all of that. 10:14.040 --> 10:16.061 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's ridiculous. 10:16.321 --> 10:17.702 [SPEAKER_02]: Clean it up Wisconsin. 10:18.763 --> 10:22.365 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I'm going to bring us to a less happy story. 10:22.625 --> 10:24.106 [SPEAKER_02]: No, not that this was a happy story. 10:24.226 --> 10:24.526 [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely. 10:24.546 --> 10:25.327 [SPEAKER_02]: It's going less happy. 10:26.407 --> 10:35.477 [SPEAKER_02]: This is reported to us in the Hartford court, they reported that last month we lost a man, a man died who had set records for U.S. prisons. 10:36.338 --> 10:38.320 [SPEAKER_02]: And that man is Francis C Smith. 10:39.261 --> 10:43.025 [SPEAKER_02]: And he spent 76 years behind bars before he died last month. 10:43.866 --> 10:45.247 [SPEAKER_02]: Essentially, at age 25, 10:47.273 --> 10:51.842 [SPEAKER_02]: Smith and a partner, bergled the Indian Harbour Yacht Club and Grantage Connecticut. 10:52.624 --> 10:56.913 [SPEAKER_02]: While the berglery wasn't progress, they get surprised by Nightwatchman and they shot this guy to death. 10:58.148 --> 11:20.363 [SPEAKER_02]: And this this poor night watch made it only been on the job for like two days and then he gets shot and killed it's that's a rough life so that was a age 25 and then a year later Francis Smith is 26 years old he's convicted of murder and he gets sentenced to death by electric chair and he heads to prison on June 7th, 1950 Three years after that by age 29 he has survived eight execution dates 11:20.703 --> 11:48.437 [SPEAKER_02]: After Connecticut Governor John Davis Lodge granted Smith seven reprieves in the early 1950s imagine being ready to go to the electric chair and then they're like wait no pause and that time seven that that's what happened to him and then that that that's a mock execution that's torture under the Geneva convention that's torture saying you're going to kill someone and not killing them is a form of torture is it better than killing them 11:49.154 --> 11:51.855 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's just as bad. 11:53.716 --> 12:10.305 [SPEAKER_02]: So he had these seven reprieves from Governor Lodge and his eighth reprieve came forward as a commutation of his sentence from the Board of Pardons and what happened was he's 29 years old and the Board of Pardons me it's and a state police major speaks up saying that he thinks Smith is innocent. 12:11.245 --> 12:16.849 [SPEAKER_02]: And the police major questioned whether Smith was even present for the murder that he had a legile committed. 12:17.750 --> 12:24.514 [SPEAKER_02]: Apparently, at the meeting, this police major nearly gets into a fist fight with Smith's prosecutor who said, no, Smith is very guilty. 12:24.574 --> 12:25.855 [SPEAKER_02]: And the two of them start biting heads. 12:26.335 --> 12:28.297 [SPEAKER_02]: It's also unheard of for a police major. 12:28.337 --> 12:32.680 [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say, like, I don't know if a cap includes that guy. 12:40.965 --> 12:48.227 [SPEAKER_02]: So, it's one of those last-minute conversations that Smith only got wind of it two hours before he was supposed to be executed. 12:48.287 --> 12:49.907 [SPEAKER_02]: So, Christ has saved me. 12:50.127 --> 12:51.107 [SPEAKER_01]: No, my God. 12:52.168 --> 12:53.588 [SPEAKER_01]: Another mock execution. 12:54.508 --> 12:58.949 [SPEAKER_02]: He's sitting in the death cell at the state prison, like waiting to be led into the death chamber. 12:59.349 --> 13:01.290 [SPEAKER_02]: Just watching the clock, waiting to be put to death. 13:02.030 --> 13:08.478 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this guy survived, and let's see, 29 is how old he was at the time. 13:08.498 --> 13:11.342 [SPEAKER_02]: So he survived 72 years more. 13:11.723 --> 13:17.250 [SPEAKER_02]: Just last month he died at age 101 while he was still in custody and the Connecticut Department of Corrections. 13:17.910 --> 13:21.533 [SPEAKER_02]: He's believed to have served more time on a single sentence than anybody in U.S. history. 13:22.094 --> 13:32.141 [SPEAKER_02]: I will say, shame on a Hartford court for this one because they said, according to Wikipedia, this is confirmed as it is also on AI with the previous law of the source. 13:33.362 --> 13:35.224 [SPEAKER_02]: Although AI should not be used as a source. 13:36.405 --> 13:36.985 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't do that. 13:38.366 --> 13:42.249 [SPEAKER_02]: So apparently the data that we have on long prison terms is really lacking. 13:43.030 --> 13:46.553 [SPEAKER_02]: But there is some informal consensus that Smith holds the prison record. 13:47.758 --> 14:11.775 [SPEAKER_02]: and he has also been held up as an example of some of the flaws behind capital punishment since the state can't figure out if they're going to put him to death or not maybe maybe not maybe he should not it's like stop that and the testimony against him apparently very whack the two primary witnesses later on recant to their testimonies and a third witness later confessed that it was him not Smith who killed the nightwatchman excuse me 14:12.552 --> 14:17.196 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they have a confession in this guy is still in jail and he died in jail. 14:18.137 --> 14:22.040 [SPEAKER_02]: It was never considered enough evidence to get smith a new trial. 14:22.760 --> 14:23.241 [SPEAKER_01]: How? 14:24.482 --> 14:26.243 [SPEAKER_01]: How's that not enough evidence? 14:26.623 --> 14:29.566 [SPEAKER_01]: Someone else admitting to the crime is great evidence. 14:29.626 --> 14:31.908 [SPEAKER_01]: That's that's a slam dunk. 14:32.628 --> 14:36.131 [SPEAKER_01]: That's Michael Jordan and a slam dunk contest right there. 14:36.251 --> 14:36.952 [SPEAKER_01]: Get out of here. 14:38.133 --> 14:41.775 [SPEAKER_02]: He should be able to walk right out of the prison at that point, but no, no, no, no. 14:41.815 --> 14:45.636 [SPEAKER_01]: No, you should be able to take whatever he wants with him out of the prison at that point. 14:46.256 --> 14:47.817 [SPEAKER_01]: He should have free reign. 14:47.857 --> 14:50.478 [SPEAKER_01]: That's his prison, like. 14:52.619 --> 14:58.401 [SPEAKER_02]: So during his incarceration, during his 76 years, there were a couple of times that Smith got out at one time. 14:58.721 --> 15:02.603 [SPEAKER_02]: In 1967, he was given a job in the prison auto shop and he drove away. 15:03.563 --> 15:04.824 [SPEAKER_02]: He was caught shortly thereafter. 15:06.128 --> 15:14.773 [SPEAKER_02]: and in 1975 to 1976, Mr. Smith was on parole for around 10 months and he returned to prison on a technical violation on the conditions of his release. 15:14.873 --> 15:20.056 [SPEAKER_02]: So not even a new crime and the records from the 1970s don't actually give an explanation for what happened. 15:20.076 --> 15:21.017 [SPEAKER_02]: They were not very detailed. 15:21.577 --> 15:34.685 [SPEAKER_02]: but he was released for a bit and then put back in prison and at that point Smith actually gave up the idea of release and he resigned himself to his eventual death in prison, starting in 1976, starting 50 years ago. 15:34.725 --> 15:34.885 [SPEAKER_01]: Good. 15:35.165 --> 15:35.886 [SPEAKER_02]: So, God. 15:36.906 --> 15:48.138 [SPEAKER_02]: So this happened earlier in 1976, and in November of 1976, he's actually up for parole again, and he said, nah, and he gets approached a number of times over the years, and he's like, I have no interest. 15:48.638 --> 15:53.123 [SPEAKER_02]: He gets approached by an attorney for the Innocence Project at one point, who advocated for his release. 15:53.643 --> 15:55.484 [SPEAKER_02]: But Smith is like, man, I'm not interested. 15:55.504 --> 15:56.204 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not bothering me. 15:56.904 --> 16:04.366 [SPEAKER_02]: And he actually got per rolled in July of 2020, after serving 70 years and 31 days for murder, but he had no place to go. 16:04.586 --> 16:08.568 [SPEAKER_02]: So the state put him in a nursing home where it puts inmates who need long-term care. 16:09.008 --> 16:13.869 [SPEAKER_02]: And so Smith stayed there for the past six years, per rolled, able to leave to the outside. 16:13.909 --> 16:18.391 [SPEAKER_02]: But he stayed here per rolled in under Connecticut, D.O.C. 16:18.411 --> 16:21.612 [SPEAKER_02]: supervision, and tell his death on June 25th of this year. 16:23.609 --> 16:38.693 [SPEAKER_02]: when he was approached over and over again he said I have no place to go most of my family is dead I don't want to embarrass the family members who are still alive by bringing up my past oh my god like this is just the most tragic story of institutionalization of all time 16:40.295 --> 16:42.496 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, it's absolutely horrendous. 16:42.636 --> 16:48.620 [SPEAKER_02]: And as far as him in prison, the record says, hey, so he can be remembered more fondly here. 16:48.660 --> 16:56.064 [SPEAKER_02]: He, he was a loner and this older guy that people called Birdman because he would open his window to let pigeons in and he adopted them as pets. 16:56.564 --> 17:00.867 [SPEAKER_02]: And one former inmate remembers him going to the childhood at a time when you could have as much bread as you wanted. 17:01.287 --> 17:04.669 [SPEAKER_02]: And Smith would take like 10 lows back to his room and just feed the burgers all day. 17:05.009 --> 17:05.730 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's dope. 17:05.890 --> 17:06.150 [SPEAKER_02]: So, 17:08.254 --> 17:10.156 [SPEAKER_02]: Mr. Smith, I'm glad you are remembered. 17:10.276 --> 17:15.320 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay, now I see why he wanted to remain in prison unlimited bread. 17:15.960 --> 17:18.502 [SPEAKER_01]: That's like, that's like the limit. 17:18.542 --> 17:20.544 [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say it's like, limit it to all of God, brother. 17:21.965 --> 17:22.745 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you ever leave? 17:22.906 --> 17:23.706 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you ever leave? 17:25.367 --> 17:29.831 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe pick some of the weeds outside, make some ruffies for you. 17:30.011 --> 17:32.173 [SPEAKER_01]: Get a little like, I don't know, like, 17:40.045 --> 17:51.077 [SPEAKER_02]: So, this whole thing is it's a tragic failure on the part of the prison system and I I wish that something better would have happened for them at some point. 17:51.778 --> 17:55.542 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, that's the justice system in America, though. 17:55.642 --> 17:57.984 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no justice, but there is a system. 17:59.406 --> 18:00.527 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, hey, heard. 18:00.988 --> 18:01.168 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 18:02.509 --> 18:03.910 [SPEAKER_01]: I heard you have a little more news. 18:03.950 --> 18:04.330 [SPEAKER_01]: Hit me. 18:04.670 --> 18:13.974 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think before that we should give an extra special shout out to our extra special sponsor, the Roger Williams University School of Justice Study. 18:14.354 --> 18:15.495 [SPEAKER_01]: Studies, studies, studies, studies. 18:15.615 --> 18:24.058 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh gosh, you know, they have so many amazing schools with great degrees certificate and postgraduate studies offerings. 18:24.119 --> 18:24.739 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you know that? 18:25.615 --> 18:29.478 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I did know that because I work there and you do work at one of those schools. 18:29.498 --> 18:29.739 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 18:30.740 --> 18:34.143 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we have the School of International Relations. 18:35.003 --> 18:36.765 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got sociology. 18:37.746 --> 18:43.070 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got the Anthropology Department about forensic science. 18:43.210 --> 18:44.071 [SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty cool. 18:45.072 --> 18:48.694 [SPEAKER_01]: political science, also cool, very cool. 18:48.854 --> 18:51.415 [SPEAKER_01]: Legal studies, studying legality. 18:51.675 --> 18:52.796 [SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty extremical. 18:53.196 --> 18:56.998 [SPEAKER_01]: Public administration, administrating the public also needs. 18:58.399 --> 19:02.041 [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, we got the big boys over in a cariminal justice. 19:02.781 --> 19:04.402 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, a cariminal justice. 19:04.442 --> 19:09.624 [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, an incredible, once in a lifetime, unforegetable, 19:18.624 --> 19:19.024 [SPEAKER_02]: leadership. 19:19.044 --> 19:21.425 [SPEAKER_02]: At this point, I guess I say school adjusted studies. 19:21.465 --> 19:33.228 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe maybe produce a bridge to just get an honorary certificate in leadership after leading this podcast ship into to beautiful placid waters. 19:33.888 --> 19:35.168 [SPEAKER_02]: Indeed indeed. 19:36.249 --> 19:45.651 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so thank you so much for Roger Williams University School of Justice Studies for your lovely patronage and sponsoring this podcast. 19:46.412 --> 19:46.952 [SPEAKER_01]: We salute you. 19:48.685 --> 20:01.172 [SPEAKER_01]: So on to my last article of the day, this one comes from the international realm, from a little place called Izrael. 20:01.672 --> 20:07.175 [SPEAKER_01]: Lots, lots going on in the news there today, but this one, prison specific. 20:08.416 --> 20:12.078 [SPEAKER_01]: So this comes from DW.com. 20:13.685 --> 20:21.397 [SPEAKER_01]: And the title is, uh, Israel clears way for crocodiles to stop prison breaks. 20:22.273 --> 20:22.613 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, cool. 20:23.053 --> 20:24.794 [SPEAKER_02]: This is exactly what everyone needed. 20:26.295 --> 20:32.057 [SPEAKER_02]: So are they hiring crocodiles as corrections officers or CEOs would be crocodiles? 20:32.197 --> 20:32.857 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good question. 20:32.938 --> 20:38.080 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, what if a legendary actor Paul Hogan is incarcerated in Israel? 20:38.700 --> 20:40.421 [SPEAKER_01]: The crocodile Dundee. 20:40.441 --> 20:45.783 [SPEAKER_01]: I believe that would be ample opportunity for a great prison escape. 20:46.515 --> 20:48.717 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, here's a joke, I wrote, here's a go. 20:48.837 --> 20:51.199 [SPEAKER_02]: What kind of pants does Paul Hogan wear? 20:51.860 --> 20:52.320 [SPEAKER_02]: What's that? 20:53.461 --> 20:54.962 [SPEAKER_02]: Crackadile, Dunga Rees. 20:55.563 --> 20:58.285 [SPEAKER_02]: OK, OK. That's it. 20:58.325 --> 21:00.407 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that does have the structure of a joke. 21:02.969 --> 21:03.270 [SPEAKER_01]: Did it? 21:04.191 --> 21:06.593 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, yes. 21:07.293 --> 21:08.214 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, I'm so. 21:09.623 --> 21:22.313 [SPEAKER_01]: Israel's environmental protection minister, it is so on has given a new classification of crocodiles in a move that may allow the reptiles to be deployed for security tasks such as maintaining security at prisons. 21:23.654 --> 21:25.196 [SPEAKER_01]: The country is former, yeah. 21:25.976 --> 21:29.419 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think that he understands that you can't actually control crocodiles? 21:30.500 --> 21:39.087 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he might have watched the crocodile hunter or crocodile dundee a few too many times and things that perhaps they are friends who you can control. 21:40.745 --> 21:49.408 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, the Cracketall Hunter collision course, always a movie I saw on theaters after I was going to rain a fire and the projector apparently caught on fire. 21:51.208 --> 21:52.869 [SPEAKER_02]: Very, I, isn't it? 21:52.909 --> 21:53.349 [SPEAKER_02]: I wrote them. 21:53.549 --> 21:55.830 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't you think it's like rain. 21:57.942 --> 22:07.830 [SPEAKER_02]: on my reign of fire and fire, so I couldn't go see that movie anymore because the projector was on fire. 22:07.911 --> 22:09.592 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're all ready at the movie theater. 22:09.612 --> 22:12.034 [SPEAKER_02]: We're like, well, I'm just going to crack it out out of the movie. 22:12.495 --> 22:16.879 [SPEAKER_02]: And I believe he like stops a satellite from crashing into the earth or something wild like that. 22:17.239 --> 22:18.060 [SPEAKER_02]: It's mega. 22:18.320 --> 22:19.381 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't recommend it enough. 22:21.160 --> 22:38.410 [SPEAKER_01]: So the country is far right national security minister, it more bend-givier, reportedly in December proposed using crocodiles around a prison for Palestinian detainees, similar to a U.S. migrant detention center in Florida dubbed alligator Alcatraz. 22:39.910 --> 22:40.191 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 22:40.491 --> 22:41.532 [SPEAKER_02]: So, then it happens that way. 22:41.652 --> 22:48.518 [SPEAKER_01]: And we have the new classification puts the crocodiles in a category of cultivated wild animal instead of wild animals. 22:49.039 --> 22:58.548 [SPEAKER_01]: It would allow an approved security organization to keep Nile crocodiles for security purposes, subject to government approval and conditions set by environmental authorities. 22:59.729 --> 23:04.293 [SPEAKER_01]: One such body is the real prison service which answers to Ben Gavier. 23:06.105 --> 23:16.111 [SPEAKER_01]: Israel media reported that Ben Gavier intends to use crocodiles to guard the Ketsuit prison in southern Israel, which primarily holds Palestinian security prisoners. 23:17.432 --> 23:22.535 [SPEAKER_01]: In a Facebook post on Thursday, Ben Gavier wrote, Are you thinking of intending an escape? 23:22.695 --> 23:23.235 [SPEAKER_01]: Think again. 23:23.876 --> 23:29.559 [SPEAKER_01]: He accomplished the post, or he accompanied the post with an AI-generated image of himself with a crocodile on a leash. 23:31.209 --> 23:38.590 [SPEAKER_02]: So who is he asking here, because I don't think any of the Palestinian prisoners will be able to read that post on Facebook if they're incarcerated. 23:38.771 --> 23:42.571 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's it's literally security theater. 23:45.112 --> 23:46.032 [SPEAKER_02]: I would go see that there. 23:46.052 --> 23:49.653 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he's a Ben Gavier, a security lesbian. 23:49.673 --> 23:56.654 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, somebody make an AI of that. 23:56.914 --> 23:58.394 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we're doing a production of security in the park. 24:04.466 --> 24:14.571 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so, uh, Israel's channel 13 reported that the Israel nature and parks authority spoke out against Ben Gervier's proposal when he first put forth the idea last year. 24:15.731 --> 24:20.093 [SPEAKER_01]: The authority said wild animals should be kept only for research and educational purposes. 24:21.054 --> 24:26.716 [SPEAKER_01]: It also cited previous problems with bread crocodiles escaping into the wilderness, imposing risks to human lives. 24:29.614 --> 24:34.175 [SPEAKER_02]: Like do you think that they're like okay, we're gonna put him in a moat so nobody gets out It's gonna be safe. 24:34.215 --> 24:34.895 [SPEAKER_02]: It's gonna be okay. 24:35.156 --> 24:36.816 [SPEAKER_02]: Or we're gonna keep him on leashes here. 24:36.856 --> 24:48.819 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's here's an AI of a human at least Here's the thing about moats Crocodiles can go on land, you know, it's a crazy thing But but like they don't just go in water. 24:48.879 --> 24:50.920 [SPEAKER_01]: They're what's called amphibious 24:52.801 --> 24:57.524 [SPEAKER_02]: When you said when you said boats, I thought you were going to quote the classic line by all those prints. 24:57.644 --> 24:58.425 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes. 24:59.085 --> 25:00.706 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a castle with a moon. 25:01.047 --> 25:02.067 [SPEAKER_01]: How I get a cross. 25:02.928 --> 25:03.689 [UNKNOWN]: Oh. 25:04.669 --> 25:05.890 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:06.030 --> 25:07.451 [SPEAKER_01]: It's I love that dear listener. 25:07.471 --> 25:07.972 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 25:08.052 --> 25:08.832 [SPEAKER_01]: What song is that? 25:08.852 --> 25:11.134 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you know it's like haunted castle or something? 25:11.194 --> 25:11.854 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember. 25:11.874 --> 25:14.336 [SPEAKER_02]: What else is this? 25:14.817 --> 25:15.377 [SPEAKER_02]: You're so funny. 25:16.550 --> 25:34.820 [SPEAKER_01]: uh... let's see it's uh... now and that note and i i looked it up in google just gave me the address for the uh... mansion in bel air but that uh... is used for exterior shots in the fresh prints oh it's pretty cool there's no mode there there's no mode they don't have to use both 25:36.320 --> 25:38.282 [SPEAKER_02]: That's also a good point. 25:38.842 --> 25:47.990 [SPEAKER_02]: So you think the crocodiles are amphibious and they can get out of the boat, so that's a problem for an enemy's keeping into the wilderness and putting lives at risk. 25:48.010 --> 25:48.090 [SPEAKER_02]: Yep. 25:51.058 --> 25:57.743 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the cost benefit and return on investment here are just dismal and they don't make sense. 25:57.964 --> 26:00.245 [SPEAKER_01]: It is nothing but security feeder. 26:00.866 --> 26:05.630 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, instead of crocodiles, here's an idea, how about you put up a fucking fence? 26:07.843 --> 26:18.449 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that I also read this article and I like that Israel's channel 18 also reports the idea was met with ridicule by several officers from the Israel presence service. 26:18.750 --> 26:21.431 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, everyone knows it's a stupid idea and security. 26:21.471 --> 26:22.692 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a cautious idea. 26:23.292 --> 26:30.257 [SPEAKER_01]: It is dumb it is bad and it is meant to just put on a show. 26:31.532 --> 26:35.858 [SPEAKER_02]: This is Trump trying to reactivate Alcatraz as a person. 26:35.918 --> 26:40.104 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, we've done the cost analysis in the past. 26:40.184 --> 26:40.845 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not worth it. 26:40.865 --> 26:42.167 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a crumbling infrastructure. 26:42.948 --> 26:44.570 [SPEAKER_02]: You're doing this as security theater. 26:44.590 --> 26:47.754 [SPEAKER_02]: You're trying to scare people and show people that you're tough on crime. 26:48.355 --> 26:51.576 [SPEAKER_02]: There are other ways to do it that are more humane and less stupid. 26:51.776 --> 26:54.977 [SPEAKER_01]: And here's my big question, what crime? 26:55.658 --> 26:56.278 [SPEAKER_01]: Tough on crime. 26:56.298 --> 27:06.361 [SPEAKER_01]: These are Palestinian prisoners who, I mean, we know that tons of innocent people are being extra judiciously killed by the IDF. 27:06.921 --> 27:10.903 [SPEAKER_01]: It makes me wonder how many of these people are actually guilty of anything. 27:11.808 --> 27:14.850 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, they're very well, maybe plenty of political prisoners. 27:15.050 --> 27:15.691 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, there. 27:15.911 --> 27:19.413 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's, I'm sure it's almost entirely political prisoners. 27:20.054 --> 27:30.761 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say this is probably most of their prisons now that whole Palestinian prisoners are probably something close to the American version Gitmo, which had a, 27:32.102 --> 27:49.013 [SPEAKER_01]: A conviction rate of like five percent of all the prisoners ever sent there during the Iraq and Afghanistan war Just just a Nothing conviction rate because these people are innocent Yeah, yeah, and it all goes back to theater. 27:49.033 --> 27:55.357 [SPEAKER_02]: We're posturing as tough on it not even tough on crime just tough on Tough on Palestine. 27:55.998 --> 27:57.039 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, tough on Palestine. 27:57.219 --> 27:59.860 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly and you guys you don't need to do that. 28:00.441 --> 28:00.661 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay 28:02.362 --> 28:04.883 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's my dismal news. 28:04.983 --> 28:05.283 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry. 28:06.324 --> 28:08.824 [SPEAKER_02]: As Pac won't said, peace in the Middle East, dude. 28:09.665 --> 28:10.465 [SPEAKER_02]: Peace in the Middle East. 28:12.045 --> 28:14.666 [SPEAKER_02]: And with that, let's cut it there. 28:14.986 --> 28:17.047 [SPEAKER_02]: And call it a day. 28:17.503 --> 28:17.783 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 28:18.263 --> 28:23.086 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thanks once again to our lovely sponsor, Roger Williams University School of Justice Studies. 28:24.086 --> 28:24.606 [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you. 28:24.846 --> 28:26.547 [SPEAKER_01]: Roger Williams University School of Justice Studies. 28:26.607 --> 28:27.708 [SPEAKER_01]: We salute you. 28:27.968 --> 28:32.070 [SPEAKER_01]: If you enjoy this podcast, please like, rate, and subscribe wherever you get podcasts. 28:32.859 --> 28:51.718 [SPEAKER_01]: give the five stars and write us a nice review yeah please we'd like to hear from you and if you didn't like the podcast email ebronson at rw.edu if you don't like anything about this podcast send a very thorough breakdown to ebronson at rw.edu 28:52.667 --> 28:53.628 [SPEAKER_02]: Not even this podcast. 28:53.668 --> 28:56.671 [SPEAKER_02]: If you don't like anything, this is our complaints department. 28:56.711 --> 28:56.951 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 28:57.171 --> 28:57.351 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 28:57.371 --> 29:03.617 [SPEAKER_01]: If you just want to complain about politics or food or your relationship, he wants to hear. 29:03.717 --> 29:05.158 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we want to hear it. 29:05.738 --> 29:06.699 [SPEAKER_01]: We definitely want to hear. 29:06.719 --> 29:06.819 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 29:07.340 --> 29:07.920 [SPEAKER_01]: We do. 29:08.020 --> 29:08.541 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 29:08.601 --> 29:10.162 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the group email. 29:10.703 --> 29:13.245 [SPEAKER_02]: It's filtered by one of our co-hosts. 29:14.486 --> 29:14.946 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not here. 29:15.106 --> 29:15.967 [SPEAKER_01]: Bronson, we miss you. 29:16.067 --> 29:16.608 [SPEAKER_02]: Come back soon. 29:16.928 --> 29:20.271 [SPEAKER_02]: And you do your listener come back soon with that. 29:22.023 --> 29:25.087 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's time for a little bit of the lights out. 29:25.107 --> 29:27.009 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's time for a little bit of the lights out.