[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back everyone to the German thristling podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am your host, as always, Jesse Conk.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I am doing a sublow show today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Still working on some guests for the summer.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we'll have a couple more guest episodes coming up in the future.
[SPEAKER_00]: But for now, you just have me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know there's a huge demand for people to just hear my voice talking about professional wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm here to satisfy that demand.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have a number of topics.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about today, just kind of touching a bunch of different kind of cornerstones of common events and just general thoughts.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to start with a story that came out yesterday.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm recording this just after 2 p.m. on Friday afternoon.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is regarding WWE doing a partnership with serious radio to basically take over serious is 24-hour wrestling radio station.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, this is something that I believe serious launched last year that kind of gave essentially my impressions that it kind of gave busted open, which is by far the most well-known program on the station, basically it's own 24-hour station where they would add in some other stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: cheap Pete Peter Roseberg show went over there a couple of other shows were there but it was really just like we're gonna do 24 hours of wrestling talk now of course given show was like busted open and cheap Pete it was extremely WWE leaning it was probably like 90% WWE and the like 10% AEW or maybe like a little TNA if they felt like they wanted to talk about TNA but it was mostly WWE anyway
[SPEAKER_00]: But the new story is basically the WWE now has this agreement and they're moving some of their podcasts, things like Stephanie make a man's crappy podcasts or Sam Roberts crappy podcasts with the Undertaker's crappy podcasts over to that station.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what does that really mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it honestly like the interesting aspect to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: is basically like, okay, WWE is now partnering directly with another media source in this case serious radio to control an aspect of wrestling media.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen WWE do this before, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They have the agreement with the ringer, which one have expired because I think some of those shows like the the same robbers podcast maybe, maybe not the same robbers one, but some of those shows were part of the ringer podcasting network as like WWE affiliated shows.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know Corey Graves is
[SPEAKER_00]: Um...
[SPEAKER_00]: And now those are going to, to I believe going to the WWE serious agreement.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe that ringer relationship is over.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know they don't like cover wrestling all that much outside of the mass man show these days, but we saw them get the deal with the ringer.
[SPEAKER_00]: We saw them sign a deal with front office sports.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we've seen WWE make these agreements with media companies before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Two basically make it all about them, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys were covering wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, now you're going to cover, you're going to be partnering with WWE and you're just going to be covering us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to be fair, most of these outlets already, like the Syrian station, were already really heavily WWE covering.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you cared about non-WW wrestling, you probably weren't listening to or reading or doing any of these outlets before.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in that sense, there's not a huge change, but there is the fundamental aspect of now.
[SPEAKER_00]: WWE is a corporate partner with these media outlets.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like my personal opinion, like I would be really upset if I, as independent journalist, was working for a company that had a agreement with the main subject that we are covering.
[SPEAKER_00]: like it would be like I cover public schools professionally and if the public school district bought my news outlet and then I was covering for the public school, like I'm just doing PR for the public school, I'm not really covering anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of what this feels like.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think like a lot of the people who are working for the serious radio station or
[SPEAKER_00]: covering stuff for front office sports.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I assume these people are kind of like untrained nitwits that don't really care about things like, oh, I think it's actually questionable that my company is now partnership with the main subject matter that we are supposed to be covering objectively.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of those people are like, oh,
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, sweet!
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I get to basically work for WWE, which is a dream come true when they can interview Cody Rhodes on whatever show they have, and it's great for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think they're thinking that hard about it, but that's the aspect of it that I think deserves the most attention, but I know they talked a lot about that on the flagship podcast that aired last night, so I'm going to jump in a different direction a little bit and talk about these all these media companies,
[SPEAKER_00]: think that they can cover WWE and cover pro wrestling and that there's like something to be gained from that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we've seen it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We saw like I mentioned the ringer already.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen ESPN triet.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen sports illustrated triet.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen an hour-seeing serious radio triet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yahoo has tried it with Ariel Holwani in his vertical that covers pro wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like these mainstream outlets think, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's an audience here
[SPEAKER_00]: we should be producing some coverage for it because, you know, pro wrestling, especially WWB, if you look at television ratings, if you look at live events, it's definitely, you look at that, you say, wow, there's an audience that's definitely big enough to justify some coverage because there's obviously fans just like that are into it, just like there are fans they NBA and NHL and MLB and NFL and any other sports league you want to cover.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's obviously based on the kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: attendance data and television ratings that we have access to, there's a big enough audience to kind of justify some coverage.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what happens is, none of these things ever gain any traction and they usually give up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the ringer has basically given up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Switch those straight, kind of basically gave up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that has more to do with Switch those straight corporate model, but they basically gave up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody cares about this era of Hoani vertical.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only time I ever hear anyone even talk about any coverage when the flagship is clowning on their awards and things like that that are so obvious, WWE slanted.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one talks about CBS Sports Wrestling coverage.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one talks about ESPN's wrestling coverage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, nobody cares about all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So despite the fact that there should be an audience for this, there isn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: And why is that?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think a big reason is is that
[SPEAKER_00]: None of this coverage is interesting at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's usually just very generic, very tepid criticism, if criticism at all towards WWE, with very little analysis really syncing into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I talked about this before when I said basically, there's so many people are pretending to talk about wrestling, but none of them know how to talk ball.
[SPEAKER_00]: None of them know how to really analyze storylines, analyze company momentum, diagnose, you know, if a wrestler's losing momentum, if a wrestler's gaining momentum, if something is happening,
[SPEAKER_00]: actually good in connecting with the audience.
[SPEAKER_00]: If something is actually bad in connecting with the audience.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of these people just, I don't know if it's they haven't watched enough wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't think about it enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't have the cerebral approach.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not good enough communicators for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what exactly is the problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's clearly a major issue with I think a lot of mainstream.
[SPEAKER_00]: poor wrestling analysis that you do see.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the result is their product is boring in while there may be wrestling fans out there that I would be interested in hearing this analysis.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not appealing to them because it's boring and because it doesn't really offer any insight or critical attitude.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'll be interesting, like I don't see like a serious radio.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like who is listening to busted open radio a 24-7?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's tuning in at 3 a.m. And like wants to listen to some wrestling discussion.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's obviously they think that there's an audience for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I think that's such a small audience that it doesn't really matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a busted open share, but like everything else on that network, that's airing like at, you know, in the middle of the night or even like, oh, here's my, I'm gonna do my evening commute home.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna turn on.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the WWE 24-7 channel.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can listen to somebody talk about raw from two days ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what even is that?
[SPEAKER_00]: And like honestly, like, I,
[SPEAKER_00]: I personally have such a different type of wrestling fan than kind of what these people are getting towards.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how can you talk about WWE that much?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I know they have a lot of content that they fill up each week, but how can you justify so much coverage exclusively for WWE without touching on?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, maybe a little A, W, but not touching on like anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Mexican, though, anything in Japan, anything on the Andy's.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just like anything else interesting that's happening in Pro Wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: How could you talk about W, W that much, especially in this day and age, where I love ex-booking is so glacially slow, that like, yeah, there's 10 hours of W, W content coming out across all different platforms each week, but almost very little of it is storyline progression.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's not that much new stuff to talk about over the course of that week.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's maybe part of it is like it's really boring to discuss.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the other aspect of it is is that I think that a lot of wrestling fans, I think a lot of WWE fans are either.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't really care about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like following the product through a podcast or reading coverage of a, you know, a raw review written review or something like that after the product is over.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they may be tuning in and then they once it's over, they move on with their lives and they don't really think that much about because not that much of an appetite for like post show stuff and the other aspect of it that
[SPEAKER_00]: might be hindering this coverage from being successful is that a lot of these mainstream elements are super late to the game, and that people have already found their spots, whether it's in more perwessling focus podcast, there's a million of those out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have one myself, you know what I'm saying to one right now, or
[SPEAKER_00]: They have their own discord channels that they talk about it and they've followed these social media accounts with these YouTube accounts that they're like watching reviews on.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've already kind of found their niche, their whole, their space to talk about wrestling and they're not really interested in like going on to cbsports.com and reading our review because they've already been for years had this other spot that they're trying to find.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that is all stuff that goes into play when we talk about like, why none of this stuff sticks?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's, in general, I think it's boring.
[SPEAKER_00]: content first, I think that there isn't really any cool analysis to be done if you're just going to be like very minorly critical WWE.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's not a lot of wiggle room if you just think everything is good or you think everything is possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also think that these outlets are just late to the game so they're not ready to cover.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if you are a mainstream news outlet and you were like thinking about we got a cover
[SPEAKER_00]: The first thing I would say is don't get in bed with WWE as enticing as that might be because we'll get exclusive interviews and those will probably help you with game Yesio algorithm and things like that if you could put Cody Rhodes interview on your website.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you have to actually offer something either new or different or at least interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you have to have interesting personalities on to discuss it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not talking about personalities like Peter Roosevelt or Ariel Hooney.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about people that can actually analyze pro wrestling and actually give real honest opinions.
[SPEAKER_00]: and do it in a way that's entertaining to the audience.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're never going to be chasing that new audience with just like a bland, important product.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has to stand out and be different because you're trying to break into a space that's already heavily saturated with a bunch of amateur shows and podcasts and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's basically that might take on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll be interesting to see how long this lasts, like if this is something that's going on in two or three years, or it's something that they kind of give up on.
[SPEAKER_00]: serious is adding a lot of kind of terrestrial radio programming to its broadcast network.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot of sports stations, including WEI here in Boston, are kind of going to a cymbal cast model where you can now get them on serious XM.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're trying to expand their footprint.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is probably ultimately a very small part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it is interesting, you know, it's something that didn't really exist within sick man as much, but since the context taken over, we're seeing a lot more of these media partnerships,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Nikon's background is in media partnerships and Arya manuals background is in as an agent and they know a lot of people and they can connect these things and I'm sure they're very keen on, you know, getting this message out there that they're controlling aspects of of the wrestling media They've definitely, I think, more aggressive on that model than they ever were under Vincent Man Sticking with WWE leadership
[SPEAKER_00]: It's definitely, it's been trending this way for a while, but I think definitely the sound, I just made it with all the New York Nick's players and like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And these recent stuff with Logan Paul and Tom Brady have really emphasized that this company is so reliant on celebrities and
[SPEAKER_00]: They want to have as many of these celebrities as possible on their programming, they want to work them into matches, they want to work them into angles, they want to have them there, just not doing it, doing anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't a novel concept, it's been going on in wrestling for years, and of course, Finsick Man built the WWF back up in the 80s.
[SPEAKER_00]: is a reliance on celebrities as the solution to what is an otherwise pretty flat product with the idea being that if ticket sales are slacking, if live attendance is down, television ratings are poor, if we feel like we need a shot beyond for a big event like SummerSlam.
[SPEAKER_00]: The powers that control the company which should be Arya manual, Mark Shapiro, Nikon.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll leave Paul out of it because I think that he's in a different boat.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the real heavy hitters in the company, the people that control that company, the TKO crowd, they really
[SPEAKER_00]: don't view wrestling and wrestlers as something that will interest people.
[SPEAKER_00]: They see celebrities as that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they see summer slam, ticket sales, slacking and think, hmm, we gotta do something, we gotta elevate a new star, we've gotta create a hot wrestling match with our existing wrestlers that will make it exciting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the bookings gotta be a little bit better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Something's gotta change to kinda,
[SPEAKER_00]: put some juice into the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't think about that like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: They think, huh, we need more star power.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where are we going to get it?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be from some celebrity that can give us attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how they view things.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't view Roman Reigns, Cody Rhodes, CM Punk as real stars.
[SPEAKER_00]: They view them as wrestlers that they have, but they don't view them as actual business moving,
[SPEAKER_00]: stars that can attract attention to their product because they don't fundamentally, they don't believe that pro wrestling is a inherently interesting thing that can create fan interest.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why the solution for almost all these things are looking outside.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we got to bring on Travis Scott, Hillshoot and Angle with Cody Rhodes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Pat McAfee's got to get involved because, you know, we think Pat McAfee could be the next of us just alone.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a major celebrity.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's on the
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, they think they see that as the solution.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't think about it in wrestling terms.
[SPEAKER_00]: They think about how they can get eyeballs.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they view that through celebrities, which makes sense again, because these are people that come from a talent agent background.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in their view, the individual celebrities are going to be people from outside wrestling, not these kind of closeted WWE superstars that have a limited appeal in their eyes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's really telling, like I think it was really easy to talk about this all the time when Vince McMahon was in charge of WWE, like Vince McMahon doesn't view them as a wrestling company.
[SPEAKER_00]: Vince McMahon sees them as entertainment and they're not going to, you know, it's not about wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about storylines and about characters and it's not about, you know, build a bill, work or things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all of that was very well true, but I think
[SPEAKER_00]: This new current regime really emphasizes that to such a dramatic degree that we have never seen before, in a sense that they really don't want to be a wrestling company.
[SPEAKER_00]: They really don't see wrestling as the main thing that brings people to the product.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are looking at celebrities, they're looking at things of anyone who pretty much anyone who's famous outside of wrestling, they could be an athlete, they could be a musician, they could be a YouTube streamer, they could be
[SPEAKER_00]: just like anyone under the sun.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they view those people as big stars.
[SPEAKER_00]: They do not view wrestling, even the biggest stars within WWE, they do not view them as stars, which is why the solution to all of their problems is always, let's get some celebrities in here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's attracted buzzling around?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see if we can get them to do an appearance on RAW.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see if these Serenet made a event, tickets, sale, suck.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's try to bring in some New York Nix and NASA Square Gardens, so they can draw the house because Roman Reigns can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how they view things.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really frustrating, I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care about WWE's product anymore because I'm not invested in it at all, and I almost never watch it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it is kind of concerning that the biggest wrestling company in the world really has a distinct rapport wrestling that doesn't see pro wrestling as this main product.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think it's gonna work in the long run.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think
[SPEAKER_00]: The average wrestling fan doesn't really like or care about celebrities in pro wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I always say this whenever they bring in the celebrity for attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the number of celebrities that had really obvious cool
[SPEAKER_00]: positive contributions into pro wrestling is really limited, like I think Mr. T had a great contribution of pro wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: He helped, he was a huge television star at the time, his angles with Rodney Piper were really big at the time, helped build up WrestleMania as a major event, helped WWE have nationally expanded, like he's a good example.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mike Tyson, huge, huge celebrity name, very good kind of controversial newsline grabbing, having to do a little program with Steve Austin, right, when Steve Austin's star was really about to hit its peak, that was obviously a very good contribution.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are two.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's probably a few more in there, but there's also for every Mike Tyson or Mr. T, there's like a million Jay
[SPEAKER_00]: are these people that totally failed and met nothing to for wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the average wrestling fan wants to see wrestlers wrestle and when they got back into WWE, when WWE was doing well a couple of years ago, it was largely wrestling and wrestling storylines that brought people back, whether it was Mercedes Monet, whether it was
[SPEAKER_00]: Sammy Zane in the bloodline and Cody Rhodes chasing the title and Roman reigns and all that stuff See him punk coming back all of that was wrestling and story lines and while like I would mock different aspects of like Oh, I hate these Shakespeare the park Roman reigns matches are all the storytelling so obvious and stupid Well, I particularly didn't like that stuff There is no denying that at least it was focused on wrestlers and wrestling and the
[SPEAKER_00]: storyline was about, you know, winning the wrestling world championship away from Roman Reigns, like it was still very much a wrestling storyline.
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead, we're now focused on like celebrities and like Tom Brady gonna do an angle with Logan Paul, who himself is a celebrity that's kind of shifted into being a full-time wrestler.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all just a bunch of really concerning trends, and I hope it doesn't spill elsewhere, even though historical when WWE starts doing something
[SPEAKER_00]: But to me it's always been kind of it's really interesting to see how far they can push it before there's really significant fan backlash.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we already saw it.
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of with WrestleMania where you just had all these people like, oh, here's jelly roll getting involved and, you know, previously, obviously Travis Scott's involvement was really derided by fans and like Pat McAfee, like the fans rejected Pat McAfee.
[SPEAKER_00]: The original plan or WrestleMania was like, huge Pat McAfee heel run where he was might have been like every episode of television might have been built around to him, you know, I don't want the world title, like that was their plan.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the fans like pretty immediately rejected him and Pat was like, yeah, I don't think this is working.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not going to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think he's been seen since.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's maybe done some commentary here and there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they were like kind of going to build around him the next of us are Stallone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he decided to bail because rejected it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know if this will reach a bigger breaking point than it already has.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that a lot of
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see where that goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Next up, I'm going to talk about staying with WWE in Summer Slime, in particular.
[SPEAKER_00]: But shifting more towards a broader wrestling discussion.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have Summer Slime coming up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the two main matches for Summer Slime are CM Punk versus Cody Rhodes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Roman Reigns versus Seth Rollins, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are the two matches for Summer Slime.
[SPEAKER_00]: To be funny if these are raw, but I'm pretty sure those are right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is coming on the heels of WrestleMania's two biggest matches being Roman Rains vs. CM Punk and Cody Rhodes vs. Randy Ford.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, your two kind of signature events over the last few months, WrestleMania and SummerSlam, have, they're both two night events and they've been headlined by what I would call like heavily established talents.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, how do they, Seth Rollins is right around 40, but otherwise everyone else is over 40 in that picture.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're all people that have been on television for at least 15 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: If not 20 years, in some cases, like Randy Orn.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, so if you look at those two things, and I think one of the criticisms of WrestleMania and that build up to it was like, wow, these guys are really old.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't only have anything going on with the younger guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Both world titles are kind of around old guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is born.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what do they do in between WrestleMania and SummerSlam?
[SPEAKER_00]: They did basically nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't get any of those younger guys ready to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: And instead, we're running back SummerSlam with some pretty, you know, there's not a lot of things that are gonna change.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, Seth Franz beats wrong reigns, which is almost definitely not going to do like does that really change anything this if
[SPEAKER_00]: CM Punk beats our Cody Rhodes beats CM Punk.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that change anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's just it feels like there's no real momentum or consequences.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what happens when you don't really prioritize elevating your talent.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the emphasis here is on my personal theory.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't prove it, but it's my theory and more evidence gets added every day to it being true.
[SPEAKER_00]: These guys don't want to work with the average guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't want to work with Obafemi, they don't want to work with Broadbreaker, they don't want to work with Jave On Evans.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're Cody, CM Punk, or Roman Reigns, you don't want to work with those guys because there's no incentive for you to work with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because in the TKO era, they understand that if they get their work placement or a younger talent,
[SPEAKER_00]: over, then their position is more vulnerable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if Roman Reigns worked a long program with Oberfemi or perhaps if you worked a long program with Walter, which I think they wanted to do, which is why they had Walter get this big push and retire John Cena only for him to not really do anything subsequent to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the idea was like, we want Walter to be a really top guy and here's the big push.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got John Cena to, you know, do a job in his final career to him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, but the reality is, if I'm Roman Reigns, I'm like, I don't want to train this guy and help get this guy get over, I don't want to work a long program with this guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if I go over kind of in the end, I don't want to elevate this guy to the level that I'm at, because if I choose to do that, then TKO is going to turn around and say, you don't want to Roman, you're really expensive.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't work a lot of dates.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we really need you as much as we need you, Stu, because we've got this new guy, Volta, who can take your spot as the top peel in the company or top tweeter, whatever the fuck Roman Reigns is these days.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if I'm Roman Reigns, like, I'm not doing that because I've got a cushy gig.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm probably the highest paid guy in the company.
[SPEAKER_00]: I work like eight matches a year.
[SPEAKER_00]: If that, I'd never have to do jobs really that I don't want to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I make a ton of money.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get a bunch of time off.
[SPEAKER_00]: I look like a god.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would I want to give that up?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would I want to get a cheaper replacement into my job?
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's no real motivation, I think, for Roman or CM Punk or Cody, to elevate a guy underneath them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Seth, at least, has worked a program with Braun Breaker, which he won in the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: But at least, I think that's that's here below those three, but those three older guys are the kind of key demos.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what we see them is we see them work
[SPEAKER_00]: which is very safe.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what the click did, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: The click can want to control the main event scene because they didn't want anyone else getting into the high priced talents slots on the roster.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it wasn't until people like Scott Hall and Kevin National Left that names like Steve Austin.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the rock ended up kind of in those other high spots.
[SPEAKER_00]: but they work with themselves, or they work with like safe people that are established veterans that they kind of know are not gonna replace them, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Randy Orton is not gonna replace Cody Rhodes, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sammy Zane is not gonna replace CM Punk.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jay Uso is not gonna replace Roman Reigns.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they work with these safe guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can throw in Drew McIntyre, you can throw in Kevin Owens, like these people who do work these programs with these top guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those guys are not gonna replace them.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know who might replace them?
[SPEAKER_00]: Obofemi.
[SPEAKER_00]: Braunbreaker.
[SPEAKER_00]: Trick Williams.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those people don't get to work with those guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obofemi's kind of off in Brock Lesnar land, kind of removed from the situation, and I think it's very telling that Obofemi won the King of the Ring, which would put him in line for a title shot, which would have him presumably rational either C.M.
[SPEAKER_00]: Plunk or Roman Reigns at SummerSlam.
[SPEAKER_00]: And instead all of a sudden, like, actually, I'm going to give up my title shot, just so I could fight Brock Lesnar again, which didn't make any sense for storyline perspective.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it doesn't make sense if you think Roman Reigns was back there saying, I'm not working with this guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I don't know, maybe, well, back doesn't have the stroke to make them do it, but some things that I've, I've actually these guys are going to have to work with the other talent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I presume.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe this exists forever, and I've actually younger talent that had potential just loses all the potential, and then they never get over and they lose that chance, which is a very real possibility, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hope we'll find me never gets really elevated, which she will have to work with at least one of those three guys to do if he never does that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then he'll probably lose a lot of momentum, and he probably will eventually not be seen as a future top guy the way he is now.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can already kind to see that with Braun Brick, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Brickers really he worked one match with CM Punk, I think, which he lost earlier this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was like a maybe the first raw the year or something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: He lost a title challenge as the CM Punk.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like any already kind of not seen as the top future guy, the way he was a couple years ago, because he's never been elevated to that time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Chance, and he's losing momentum.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's other reasons for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's been injured, he's in that terrible vision stable that has no interest in creative direction.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you can kind of see it that he's already kind of lost so in that sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the same kind of thing that like a guy like Obofemi faces or a guy like Chuck Williams faces.
[SPEAKER_00]: If the fans start to realize, these guys are never actually going to be elevated to the actual top spot.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're here at SummerSlam and we're not going to make any progress in that regard because we've got the Jerry Atrick made a vencing.
[SPEAKER_00]: on the flip side over an all-leat wrestling, we have an established veteran champion in Kenny Omega, and he will be defending his title, against Kevin Knight, coming up this weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: Show him what he's already happened by the time you're listening to this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you want to talk about the opposite of somebody getting a new guy ready, it's Kenny I'm making up because he's facing Kevin night at redemption and Kevin night is an example of a guy who's in his 20s.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's fresh.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has a bit overexposed on TV, Aida, and kind of lithotically pushing him up the card.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now he's getting his first world title match to main event at paper field.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a huge opportunity for him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I am, do not think he's going to win this match, be shocked if he did.
[SPEAKER_00]: That'd be crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I can almost guarantee that Kenny Omega is going to give him a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's already given him a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this, you know, relatively brief feud that they had.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've had Kevin Knight's stand tall.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had a nice end to dynamite on Wednesday with Kevin Knight laying out Kenny and Kenny doing a
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they're clearly, you know, doing the thing that WWE won't do or Kenny is doing the thing that WWE's top stars are not interested in doing, which is working with a guy who will eventually be putting a position to kind of replace Kenny Omega.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, maybe it's because Kenny Omega is doing this because he understands what the business needs and that this is what, you know, older wrestlers need to do to help younger wrestlers get along.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he's Kenny Omega is doing it because he knows that Tony Con will always have a spot for him in a way that TKL will not always have a spot for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are current top guys, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen how TKL treats a lot of there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Guys, once they realize that they're probably making too much money and not giving them enough value, they'll cut them and they'll replace them with someone else.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tony Khan won't do that necessarily.
[SPEAKER_00]: We haven't seen him do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe that's it's easy for Kenny Omega to put over his replacement and it is for Roman Reigns because Roman Reigns just like it may be helping out of a job any year.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I do this, well Kenny Omega is not.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so Kenny is, you know, and this is an example of an older established guy working with a younger established guy and helping elevate him, bring him up, put him on his level by the end of redemption, well, I think, Tony Omega is going to stay at the tall.
[SPEAKER_00]: The viewer, the goal is the viewer should be thinking, Kenny won that match, but Kevin nights really close and probably, you know, a year from now, maybe 18 months from now, he's going to be a world champion because everything is trending in the right direction.
[SPEAKER_00]: A good example of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: you can just look at all in, which will be taking place in one of the stadium next month.
[SPEAKER_00]: And where can you make it?
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be facing, we'll ask very, where he will almost definitely be doing the job and putting we'll ask for it over.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if Kevin Knight isn't a replacement for Eddie Ovega, we'll ask for it, 100% is a replacement for Kenny Ovega, in terms of being the top baby face best-bout machine kind of guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can argue that we'll already kind of assume that mantle, but this will be a pretty formal passing of the torch for one best-in-ring wrestler of his generation to another.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and establishing will as, you know, probably the top star in a W, in a lot of ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, this is something that WWE has been really reluctant to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think to their own detriment, as the company was peaking a couple of years ago, they really failed to capitalize on the momentum by elevating new talent and step relying on old talents.
[SPEAKER_00]: And really like CM Punk coming back to WWE gave them a few extra years of kind of interesting matchups because where would they be if they didn't have CM Punk?
[SPEAKER_00]: In terms of him being at least a fresh act within the scope of contemporary WWE like they're still working.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they're still running our fumes with Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns as as an interesting feud and Cody of course has been spitting his tires for about a year hasn't been anything interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: See a punks at least, you know, given them an extra 18 months along with the John Cena retirement, I think of a fresh content in terms of big stuff that fans care about, but that's stuff that's all waiting now.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think there's a lot of contrast between AWS and WWE.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tend to, I feel like, sometimes I do it too much, like comparing, this is what AWS is doing, this is what WWE is doing, because they are separate wrestling companies.
[SPEAKER_00]: And certain things are going to work for AWS, that don't really work in WWE and vice versa.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think everyone understands that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that this is a really interesting, especially when we look at the Summer Slim card, and you look at kind of,
[SPEAKER_00]: what's going on with the AW World Title, compared to what's going on with the two WWE World titles.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good contrast to see that what company is looking progressive at how can we get younger, how can we get under exposed talent over and seeing at the highest level and what WWE is doing with that?
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see what they do with Oba after he presumably beats Brock Lesnar.
[SPEAKER_00]: it's possible he loses.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think Brock taught Oberfemi a lesson at WrestleMania, so Brock does the job to Oberfemi and then basically hugs the spotlight from him by take it off his gloves and say pretending like, oh, I'm retired.
[SPEAKER_00]: So everyone talks about Brock Lesnar after the match instead of Oberfemi and then of course Brock Lesnar gets his win back.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that was a political masterclass by one Brock Lesnar a guy who's given out a lot of them over the years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, I mean, I would presume the progressive booking move would be for Obofemi to be Brock Lesnar, but who knows if Brock goes, I don't put in this sky over for good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I'm not making him look better than me.
[SPEAKER_00]: He'll know I take my spot and I've got a cushy gig here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got the Roman Reigns gig, or maybe Roman Reigns is the Brock Lesnar gig, where I get to work like three matches a year and make a ton of money.
[SPEAKER_00]: And basically, it book like a god.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would he give that up?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I never bought the breakfast and retirement story line anyway, or like the idea that Brock Lesnar was going to retire, which a lot of people somehow believed, heading into summer slime.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's in Minnesota.
[SPEAKER_00]: That'll be Brock Lesnar's retirement.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would Brock Lesnar retire?
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not physically shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not someone that's like, you know, on his last legs.
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't have, unlike John Cena, who obviously has a very lucrative acting career.
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't really have like another way to make this kind of money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would he give that up?
[SPEAKER_00]: He's making a shit ton of money.
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't have to do a lot of work Why would he stop doing that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Unless he was really physically shocked like he had to have neck surgery and he was his body was fucked up And he don't he still looks pretty good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know he's older, but He doesn't look like he has to stop wrestling anytime soon.
[SPEAKER_00]: So why would he?
[SPEAKER_00]: So be interesting to see I guess what happens there because that's the one match you can kind of point to him Be like well, they did put Oberfemmy over Brock and a hell in the cell so it did cut He's the one guy that kind of elevating and you know what happens next with Oberfemmy is
[SPEAKER_00]: What program is he going to be in?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is he going to be in a holding pattern until maybe he wants to stumble?
[SPEAKER_00]: If he works for us so many years, he's going to go over like who knows?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's the guy that I think if you're a WWE fan, you be looking at as the next generation of star, as a currently stance, but that can change pretty fast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he'll be interested to see where he goes next.
[SPEAKER_00]: Moving on, focus in more on a w. Who's still a little touch of WWE here?
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna hit this point soon where some of these guys who were released from WWE are gonna be eligible to their 90 day no compete is gonna go up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're gonna have, you know, people like the new day become available or shameless, who is contracted as expiring.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's contracted, it's expiring in November.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we have some older WWE talents that is going to become available.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the more city machine guns who were in WWE with really considered them, like WWE talents because they've,
[SPEAKER_00]: mostly wrestle outside of WWE.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, you know, the new day or shameless who, you know, pretty much all of their mainstream careers have been in WWE.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to be hitting a point where there's going to be continued discussion about are these towns going to end up in
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the presumption is, yes, that the new day is going to come in and, you know, there's been kind of a long standing potential money feud with the young bucks and there's, you know, stuff with, you know, same with the more same machine guns, right, you can come in and have the rest of the young bucks because they have history.
[SPEAKER_00]: when we talk about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think most people look at this and say, oh, I would be interested in seeing talent X outside of WWE, getting to work in AWS.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a pretty generally held belief because AWS wrestlers more creative freedom.
[SPEAKER_00]: They let people do stuff that WWE wouldn't let them do.
[SPEAKER_00]: They generally respect talent more and by that I mean both of it can a booking perspective and in like respecting what they can do in the ring, more than WWE does.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really tantalizing pure fan of almost anyone that has been working in WWE, unless you're like a total WWE weirdo who hates everything that's not WWE.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're probably going to be intrigued by what happens when they work outside of WWE in another, you know, big, easily accessible promotion that has a lot of good talents that they could work with.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's some people approach it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if you're talking about the talent like the new day, you're like, yeah, but the new day was in a W, you can easily envision, you know, that many young bucks do in the program, they'll probably bake or, you know, them with some of the other types in a W, what if they had a program with, you know, FTR or another program with FTR?
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, since they probably did, I can't recall exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they ever had a program with them in W, but it was simply must of.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, what if they worked with the FTR?
[SPEAKER_00]: What if they worked with copin' Christian?
[SPEAKER_00]: What if they worked with top flight?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what if they worked with all these hamsters?
[SPEAKER_00]: What if brodito was facing, you know, copi Kingston and Xavier Woods?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you could see it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all stuff that could happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it's probably gonna be pretty good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all that stuff is how I think most people analyze like, you know, what's on the table for them?
[SPEAKER_00]: But, would I, I wouldn't think about this like, ADW is a huge roster.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have a lot of people that struggle to get TV times.
[SPEAKER_00]: Historically, with professional wrestling industry, moves better when new, unproven names get television time, not established veterans with it obvious ceiling.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's an opportunity cost that comes from bringing a team like the new day like that that extends beyond just oh I think that they are good enough to be in a w and they could do some interesting things I think most people agree that those guys could do some interesting things in a w But if you sign the new day and you're paying them x amount of dollars and you're you know pushing them giving them enough TV segments each week is that coming at the expense of a
[SPEAKER_00]: younger act that maybe able to get over.
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, Speedball, Mike Bailey and Kevin Knight, Jet Speed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was that speedball was the name of their tag game, but it's actually not just Speedball, Mike Bailey, but Jet Speed, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Jet Speed was a tag team that worked a lot last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: They got a lot of TV time, they got some matches.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to think of they ever won a tag team championship, so I think they might have.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm so bad with remembering who won titles and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But right, they got a lot of TV time.
[SPEAKER_00]: They got time to get over.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the result was Kevin Knight got...
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, a chance to really perform on Dynamite each week and, you know, give them this little program with Mike Bailey after they broke up and helped elevate Kevin 90 went from a guy that just kind of ensign from New Japan.
[SPEAKER_00]: He'd been, you know, a junior heavyweight in New Japan and moved into AW.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now he really feels like a potential future big star in the company.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that started because he was given some opportunity to wrestle on TV.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if the new day were in WWE last year, would jet speed have gotten the same kind of, amount of television time, the same kind of matches, the same kind of exposure, the same kind of opportunities that they did get.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, this is all hypothetical, but it's possibly didn't because they got a pretty substantial role on television.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if the new day are coming in, then they could actually get a substantial role on television as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you bring in a team like the new day,
[SPEAKER_00]: the next Kevinite from getting an opportunity to really kind of showcase themselves in AW.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think this is not particularly cost that comes with this and if you're AW, do you want to be, I think there's there's there's
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to be seen as the company that gives new opportunities to unproven talents that get a chance to showcase themselves or do you want to be seen as the company that has a lot of XW, W-E talent that lets them kind of do different things than they didn't W-W-E and kind of maybe change their characters a little bit, work with different talent.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying the ladder is bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying that I have it enjoyed a lot of xw to town that's been able to come into a w with do new things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying that there is a cost that comes when you allow that to happen a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we'll talk about Bailey, like
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Bailey is maybe going to become available eventually, and everyone's like Bailey the WWE.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our Bailey the WWE, you know, she can reunite with Mercedes.
[SPEAKER_00]: They can work in the women's tag team division.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's all the stuff that could happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: That sounds great if you're a big Bailey fan, because she hasn't really been able to do much in WWE, like she's kind of been faced out of their women's division in a lot of ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: and this is a chance for her to be reunited with Mercedes and get a chance to wrestle outside of WWE, which would be really exciting if you're a Bailey fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem is, and like you could say like Bailey is better than a lot of women in AEW.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though I think Bailey physically is pretty shot, apparently that's a controversial take, despite the fact that she said multiple researchers and looks like she's running around the
[SPEAKER_00]: but she's physically limited.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even in that capacity, though, she's a veteran.
[SPEAKER_00]: She kind of knows how to work.
[SPEAKER_00]: She knows how to work TV matches.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's better than a lot of the really green rough AW women's talent that's kind of at the bottom of that division.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Bailey has limited ceiling.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've already seen Bailey on our TV for the last 12 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's already been a star that's kind of peaked in this industry already.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you put her on television and give her a substantial role and if she comes in, she will have a substantial role.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know people are like, oh, he just kind of have her work with the younger wrestlers and she can be a trainer and like, all of stuff sounds good on paper.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're going to be bringing in somebody like her who's probably going to be pretty expensive, you're going to have her on TV a lot, especially when she first comes in.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't like you're bringing in.
[SPEAKER_00]: like I know someone said like oh like well they brought a nice and rain to be like a player coach and she barely wrestles and Bailey's got to be a lot better than a nice and rain and like yeah but their value would be making substantial more than that isn't rain and there'd be an emphasis of her in the division more than than the most talents that they commonly have.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like for instance I think like you had like this this whole
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, women's own heart term it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like they took my world, and they really did something with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: They pushed her all the way to the finals and let her go toe to toe with Mercedes Monet.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was someone that had just very, very little exposure prior to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think by all accounts of my world did well.
[SPEAKER_00]: in how that match kind of unfolded and how it impacted her career in a quite positive way and you have something where you're like, okay, cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we've got a young, completely new, completely under-exposed pro wrestler that we gave this opportunity to because there was an opportunity to give them to.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you bring in Bailey,
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you're not going to have as much time for my world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you're not going to have as much time for the next person that would be after my world in terms of a young, under-exposed woman's wrestling talent.
[SPEAKER_00]: So while like, yeah, Bailey, just much like the new day, like Bailey, you can see stuff that she would do in A, W, you can see it being good.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's going to cost something to, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: do you want to be the company that's like WWE 2014 nostalgia or do you want to be the fresh new exciting alternative company?
[SPEAKER_00]: And there is a balance there to a degree, but I think AW is definitely at its best where it's pushing the envelope in new and exciting ways and we're seeing new, you know, sometimes unconventional talents that never would have got a sniff
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, get to really excel, not necessarily like, here's some stuff from 14 years ago they might like.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that's, it's a fine line that I think in certain times throughout AWS history they've struggled to hit, they've sometimes been an old man promotion, they've sometimes been relying too much on XWW stars, they've sometimes given too much leeway to people who thought that they were bigger than the company and didn't respect Tony and didn't respect AW.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying that I had any reason to believe that Bailey or Shameless or the New Day would fall into that boat.
[SPEAKER_00]: but it is something that has happened before.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen people kind of come in and be like, yeah, this is something that's kind of an easy for me, but I'll take the paycheck, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that has not been good for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hurt them a lot in different ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's something to be mindful for, especially as this talent actually does become available going forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: pivoting gears to Shane Haste here, GHC World Heavyweight Champion Shane Haste, really interesting, I'm not a big no of you, I think people know that, I'm not watching into Tune and Into Monday Magic on Russell Universe every Monday, but I have been following the Shane Haste World title run because I found it really interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think everyone that's a wrestling fan has their own like little, you know, favorite midcard, tag team wrestlers, anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Always think to yourself, huh, what would have happened if they were given a real main event push?
[SPEAKER_00]: What would have happened if a child and Benjamin, for example, was given a real main event push and was working main events every night and winning the world title at having these long 30 minute matches with other good wrestlers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just, using Shelton's example, but there's probably hundreds of hundreds of wrestlers over the years that people who will wonder that about.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Shane Hayes is a perfect example.
[SPEAKER_00]: Throughout his career, Shane Hayes has been a very dependable, solid, fundamentally sound wrestler.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were times where him and Mikey Nichols, you know, he's primarily, you know, Shane Hayes is pretty primarily attacking wrestler, for almost his entire career.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there were times with him and Mikey Nichols and TMDK, where, you know, I'm among the best tag team wrestling, wrestling groups in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anyone ever, though, was like Shane Haste, future main event, or Shane Haste, sky still limit with that guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't think anyone was ever really thinking about him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's shocking that he's 40 years old in the year, 2026.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has been given that opportunity.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has been made, you know, the world champion and no, you know, it was a pretty sizable company, a large-ish company.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the biggest wrestling company in the world, but it's not a small little shindy either.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a real company with a putting a title with, you know, real legacy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a title that can't talk about ashy health, it's a title that, you're not key to my health, kind of, you know, a title that,
[SPEAKER_00]: Keiji Butohel, like it's a pretty big deal, uh, within the scope of wrestling and not only did he win the title, but he's getting like an honest to God thorough main event, push he beat Yoshi, he key in Amirah
[SPEAKER_00]: in May, and he subsequently has defended the title three different occasions.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's, you know, he's pinned in some of the top guys and no, he pinned Kenta.
[SPEAKER_00]: He pinned Titu Yando, why wouldn't he?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he's our top guy and no, but was an excellent match.
[SPEAKER_00]: And only he just pinned Ozzawa, you know, last weekend at their big,
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was a matcha lot of people were like, okay, it's kind of fun that Shane Haste has had this run, but let's get back on to Ozawa.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the future of the company.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the top star, it's time.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, Shane Haste beats Ozawa.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's, this is a really kind of rare opportunity we're seeing like really a career midcard wrestler who's wrestled all over the world in midcards, all over the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, my opportunity to be like a top mate of that guy
[SPEAKER_00]: two inch of the weeds like his drawing record, as soon as drawing isn't that great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Brought to him to maybe like, it was hour or like, if they put the title on like, to see a nighter, wish that might do because nighter's has been next defense.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think as a performer, he's done a really good job in coming across as a credible main event wrestler, which is actually really impredent and really difficult when your career has been midcard guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: and he's just this career tag team wrestler that has elevated himself into being a credible may never, and to give Noah's credit, they're having them beat him, beat guys, they're having them like overcome the odds, like in the match against those hour, when all of the team 2000, ex-guys ran in to help those hour and like Shane Haast and his group like kind of helped forth, fight them off, and
[SPEAKER_00]: He beats guys with this finisher.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love his finisher, the kind of weird like, looks like kind of like an F5, but then it turns into like a really dramatic side slam.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of my favorite finisher's in wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: he's got, you know, he's pinning these guys with his finisher and he's he's beaten these top guys and he's having no nonsense.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there is some nonsense like in the 2,000 x match, but there is he's being potatoes getting out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's in great physical shape.
[SPEAKER_00]: He looks the part and he just wants to go out there and he's having these.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, kind of classic style, hero, heavyweight made events.
[SPEAKER_00]: The stuff you kind of expect when you turn on some super wrestling Noah, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You could see him, it's kind of crazy to think about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could see him wrestling Kenta Koppashi in 2004.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it being a good match.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can see like, yeah, if 2004 Kenta Koppashi came into 2006 Noah, 2006 Noah, in Russell Shane Hassie, like this probably meant probably gonna rule.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a huge credit to him and we were talking about this in the voice of wrestling discord a couple days ago We're talking about like you know most improved wrestler and who who is going to win most improved wrestler in the observant words this year And I think it has this a really interesting case because
[SPEAKER_00]: I think usually when you think of this award, you think of somebody who fundamentally improved their pro wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody who's only a few years of experience who took a huge step forward and went from maybe wrestling four minute matches to wrestling a bunch of 12 minute matches and getting better at some of the fundamental aspects of wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I better at selling their moves, the work CRISPR, they got more confidence on the microphone, all that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: You think about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't really think about career veteran like Shane has who it is regard like is he a fundamentally better wrestler now that what then he was last year like probably not he's super experienced He has always been very good fundamentally.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anyone surprised that he is he could like in Belle the Belle pro wrestler.
[SPEAKER_00]: So did he, but what he did improve on was his presentation, the way he carried himself, the way he's gone into singles matches without never really having that experience before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like his big singles matches and coming across as a credible champion, you know, leading his group to White Raven Squad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he has improved in these other, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: nuanced aspects of pro wrestling that I think a lot of people, if presented with a similar situation would struggle to, I think about a guy like Dolph Ziggler who was, you know, a mid-card guy for a large portion of his career and that fans respected for being very technically sound and working hard and things like that and finally got pushed as a main event or and it just didn't click all the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, why don't I do a terrible booking, but he just didn't have
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't take the steps necessary to carry himself like a super duper star.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying my chain haste is like suddenly like 1985 whole copian in the right, you know, with his crowd connection but he's done a really nice job doing something that I think is really difficult for Pro wrestler to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially someone that just spent their entire career.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I feel like maybe he didn't because wrestlers, you know, you know, you have to have confidence in yourself to do this job at a high level.
[SPEAKER_00]: But do I think like a few years ago, especially when he was slapped Jack in WWE, he was probably thinking himself, he like, man, I'm probably never going to be like a real-world champion.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm probably never going to get like a huge made event push in any sizable company.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's probably never going to happen for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even without this run, he always had a very respectable strong career.
[SPEAKER_00]: just not, you know, getting that chance to be a made-up guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think every wrestler who starts and wrestling at some point thinks about them being a World Champion somewhere, being a made-up owner.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't work out for most guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think even a guy as talented and as successful as has to then, he was probably thinking, yeah, this is probably the end of the line for me in terms of my, I probably already hit my ceiling and low and behold, weird things happen in pro wrestling and he's had a really nice run.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think he
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a great candidate for most improved and I just want to give him a shout out because like I said, I'm not a regular, no will be where I try to tune in for like maybe some of the big stuff, but
[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, I've been hearing about his title one and I was like, let me watch these matches.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're all on wrestling and wrestling and wrestling and wrestling and versus a really nice, easy app to navigate if you want to just pay or shoot into, you know, these major shows and watch these main events and all of the matches are really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think his match with Tetsuya Endo is really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: That might be in my top 10 matches at the year by the end of the year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was outstanding, and I think his match with Amuro, the title change, was really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: His match with Kenza was solid, it wasn't as good as the endo or any of them are matches, but it was still pretty good, and I think his match with those out was good too, even though it had the really annoying generic, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: heel group interference spots that I can never see again and be happy But be interested see if he's got a big test in terms of having good matches.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got a huge test with Tetsu United toe coming up because Tetsu United toe is not having great matches right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if he can if he can If he can pull like you know a four star match at a nighto You know a lot of that might be a nighto because nighto will just be over with the audience and Kind of there'll be some momentum for him so the crowd will be hot so might
[SPEAKER_00]: health and that and but if he can have like a good belt of performance with night out.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's he's not only should he be considered for most improved but like as far as like down ballot most most outstanding wrestler down ballot flare up as.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's worth your consideration I just and it's it's it's pretty remarkable like I said I think this is difficult I think there's a lot of guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just think a guy think a Jeff Jarrett right nice midcard wrestler got pushed to the main event.
[SPEAKER_00]: never took to it well was always kind of underwhelming.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like a good example.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and these guys just, you know, Kofi Kingston, he had a great great run into the world title, Wednesday, World Tire at WrestleMania.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of the accidental run, super over.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ever really came across as a credible world champion.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, I last did with that booking, but he was, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a guy that, like, a lot of people thought could be a world champion, and then he was a world champion.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, maybe there was a reason never hold the world title.
[SPEAKER_00]: She and Houses, I think really seizing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's something that's really difficult to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I don't talk about moving to New Japan here a little bit, but also a little focus on AWS.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about Walker Stewart.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who, you know, obviously appeared, he's doing all the G1 shows right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's kind of doing them by himself, and I'm sure Chris Charlton will join when we get to the Tokyo shows and for the finals and things like that, but he's kind of, you know, doing the G1 shows with, you know, or Volvendor of kind of whoever, whatever English speaking talent they have available, sometimes it's what I've seen and it's been Oscar.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been, I think Calvin Newman's done some shows, it's been Hanare, I saw do a show.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's kind of like just working with a bunch of wrestlers who I would say have various capacities experience doing broadcasting called a commentary.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think Walker Stewart's the best play by play get I in the game right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he was the best guy last year too.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like the best broadcasting prospect ever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Has there ever been a podcast or this young, this good working main rest major wrestling, I think you could probably you'd have to go back to the territory days for like when like Jim Ross was just starting out I can't say I've heard a ton of young Jim Ross, you know, working for Bill Watts, but this guy's incredible at his job and it just seems like.
[SPEAKER_00]: And credit to New Japan for finding this guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how they did it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It must have been they found workets at the end of the US.
[SPEAKER_00]: But obviously, when Kevin Kelly left to go work for AEW, it's like, all right, you know, English commentaries, you know, been an important part of this company, who are they going to find to replace him and they found this guy who basically nobody had ever heard of before and was totally unproven and they've been flying him to Japan, and he's been great.
[SPEAKER_00]: So credit to them for their scouting department and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: It does mean it seems like a matter of if not when he ends up working for a w. I guess he could also work with w. I don't know what his dream is, his dream might be to work for ww.
[SPEAKER_00]: something interesting, I think my hold-and-back in WWE is now great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Vince isn't there anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if Vince was there, he would have no chance of working in WWE for the reason that like Walker Stewart is like NFL left tackle-sized.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a big, big man, and if it's a man would have hated to have.
[SPEAKER_00]: a huge announcer standing next to any wrestler, you know, unless they're like, you know, a huge wrestler themselves, but if you were to have like, Walker Stewart, next to Cody Rhodes, it would make Cody Rhodes look small because Walker Stewart just happens to be very large individual.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I always thought like, that will hold them back from working in WWE because they won't like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, things change, obviously, minutes isn't around anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's probably, if Walker Stewart's dream is WWE, the dream is still alive.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems likely he would get his first crack in A.W.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he appeared and did work for on the forbidden door show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, that's, you know, a joint show, and he's a great person to kind of bring in and help explain New Japan guys and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that if I was A.W., I'd be,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to have them be the collision guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have him do collision with Tony and Nigel Laganis.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think as much as I like Shivani, like I don't think he's good play by playing guy at this point in his career, especially for AW, especially for collision, in particular, his collision tends to be, you know, multi-man matches and just even more than the AW regular house style and stuff's moving fast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Guys are doing crazy moves.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just
[SPEAKER_00]: as a, you know, color commentator kind of, you know, voice of reason, honest, you know, critic, guide, kind of interact with the heel a little bit, um, all the way his role is on dynamite.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so, so you put Walker on collision with Giovanni and Nigel, I think that's a great team, actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and you can have him, you know, do dynamite with X caliber if you want to, you can do, you have him on paper views, you can do well by kind of stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I am waiting for
[SPEAKER_00]: the time, the episode of Collision.
[SPEAKER_00]: One day, we're going to turn on Collision.
[SPEAKER_00]: in Walker Stewart's gonna be there doing commentary.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not gonna be like, we're not gonna, it's gonna be before we get the announcement that Walker Stewart has signed with AW.
[SPEAKER_00]: Something is going to happen where like, Excalibur can't make the show, Shivani can't make the show, Rickabani's not available, and Walker, they're gonna say, oh, you know who we bring in Walker Stewart, he's gonna do a show, and that will be the beginning of the end for Walker Stewart in New Japan for wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is too bad, cause I think he's done a great job with New Japan, and I wonder what's gonna happen to them?
[SPEAKER_00]: New Japan's English broadcast after Walker Stewart can they find the next Walker Stewart.
[SPEAKER_00]: They found one could they do it again But he's just he's really really great at his job and I think it's just a matter if not when when he's wrestling He's calling a W matches and it's crazy to think about how young he is because you know He's usually 20s so like if you really want to feel old think about how it's like like by the time Walker Stewart
[SPEAKER_00]: It's Tony Shivani's age, it will be like 270, so we could easily be in the year 270 and walk a store we're still doing called a commentary for pro wrestling, just think about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, that's my show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, this was kind of like a supplemental show, gotten in no-one an hour, pretty good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about a few hot topics.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll have some guests coming up later, but I appreciate everyone taking the time to listen, and I'll talk to you again after a while.