[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, what are you doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm telling you what you're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're less than into the Elder Scrolls.
[SPEAKER_00]: Doorcasts!
[SPEAKER_00]: Either you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Around be skipping rope with your entrails.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hata.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the Elder Scrolls' Lordcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: Your source for lore and so much more.
[SPEAKER_03]: Adventures welcome back to the Elder Scrolls lore cast.
[SPEAKER_03]: You've got me Tom and Lotus and we are talking more icebergs again Lotus.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've got some we got some weird ones this week.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have some that are kind of obvious if you play the games Which we've discovered some of these icebergs are seem to be more for people who are I don't know either skipping all the dialogue in the games or we just don't know much about I'm trying to get the bases of like do I want to get involved with this series
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, right, but then there are some on here that are like, Oh, there's a little hint of a something that might be a thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's dig into that and see if that's a thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's a spicy mix this week.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel like it's going to end on spicy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, and then.
[SPEAKER_03]: So definitely the last one this week is pretty spicy, but also kind of shouldn't be, but also would be if you were in world we'll get into it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But here, let's, we're starting off with number 62 on this gigantic iceberg that we've been going through for like 12 episodes now of iceberg episodes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Martin.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we're getting there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did the math earlier, let us.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, if we do five a week, that's at least a hundred weeks of episodes.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have other episodes that we do between like patron.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh man, so there's a lot here to get through, but this week we've got this one, we're starting with 62 Amanda Motiere, or Motiere, I don't remember exactly what he is saying.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's French.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's a Britain.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's basically French.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that what French people are?
[SPEAKER_03]: They have elves and they also have magical abilities.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what go what's going on with the French?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where their coffee is so good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_02]: And their baguettes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe the berets are like magical and chanted hats.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you heard his hair, but it's cannon.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and that's why their mimes are so powerful.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wait, what?
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, let's get into this one.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, according to the explanation that was part of this already, the character that orders the assassination of Titus made the second in Skyrim.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is among Motei.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is hinted and speculated in-game that he is a member of the Elder Council and wants Titus made for political reasons, so he can have more power in the Elder Council or even become Emperor himself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Furthermore, the multi-air NPC has two different versions with different appearances for each quest he appears in, which led to a fan theory that the last multi-air is player meets, and is killable, is actually an imposter or body double.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the iceberg, and that's all of the evidence.
[SPEAKER_03]: Notice I've looked into this, that's it.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is just a, hey, somebody had a theory that this is a little bit different than normal in the game.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe that's what's going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the reason I'm like this one, maybe, I mean, it's not super strong evidence stuff, obviously.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've, we've, we've, we've body doubled.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've had body doubles show up multiple times.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's essentially the entire plot of the Elder Scrolls one arena is combining the staff to
[SPEAKER_02]: screw up yake bomb.
[SPEAKER_02]: Farns.
[SPEAKER_02]: Real.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's getting to be somebody else.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's less pretending to be the emperor.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's less a body double for his own protection.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's more if he's pretending to be someone he's not.
[SPEAKER_03]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_03]: And also.
[SPEAKER_02]: of a actual other person, which is, he's essentially taking the crown in the situation by preparing, pretending to be the Emperor.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's right out the gate.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is sort of a thing in the Elder Scrolls.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not super weird that that might be the case.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just,
[SPEAKER_02]: not entirely sure that there's enough evidence to really show much that that, yeah, it might just be a coding thing where it's slightly different.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe, yeah, that could be, or they just didn't want you to accidentally kill a character before you're able to do the quest.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then after the quest was done, you're now able to kill the character.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, there's something that like triggers.
[SPEAKER_02]: So as a trigger, it actually changes something in the model so that you get the before and after.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you don't get more into approach of you've plunged the world into
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've removed that from the the most recent games so that you can't do your storyline and maybe part of that transition trigger changes what they look like slightly for whatever reason.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we could probably sit here and come up with a lot of reasons why this is functioning in the game this way and it doesn't necessarily mean it's a body double.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but what we do know about Mond is that he is a powerful political entity and you go through multiple steps in the dark brotherhood quest line that eventually leads into the assassination of the emperor and all of that stuff is true.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is tied to this and he's the one who sets all that stuff up.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's the one who summons the brotherhood in order to do this and I mean, I guess a lot of people would benefit from, say, assassinating an emperor for all sorts of different
[SPEAKER_03]: But if you're part of the aristocracy, usually the reason is you want more power or money or want to be the emperor yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So then, that again, there is enough that it doesn't seem, this isn't one of the ones, it's like, okay, well, this is based on nothing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just, I'm not sure that there's enough evidence to show that this is a thing, but I also wouldn't feel comfortable throwing this out as something that, at least, anything I know enough to just be like, no, this is clearly not a thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you first meet him, he does have a bodyguard named Rexis.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he does, there is evidence that he does employ other people for his own personal safety, which he has a step further in the idea that like, this is a body double for personal safety.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's a little bit there.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I wouldn't say conclusive, but I wouldn't rule this one out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think this one is not necessarily likely, but it is possible.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe that's what we should do is stamp these on every episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: Be like, oh, we're like on Mythbusters.
[SPEAKER_03]: Remember, Mythbusters?
[SPEAKER_03]: Where they would be like plausible.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and we make them really dramatic for things like potential and just like super like Luke one great maybe style.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, really definitive.
[SPEAKER_03]: Great maybe.
[SPEAKER_03]: More.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she's like, like the blood sound, the cringey hands, and she... No, we were discussing this before the show last week, because we're going to say the Tintu blood effect makes sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: Tintu stealth assesses blood effect.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you're really bored.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so real quick, I'll go back and play the Tenshu games and some of you will remember those games and have played them.
[SPEAKER_03]: But go back and play them and listen to the blood effects.
[SPEAKER_03]: They legitimately sound like somebody...
[SPEAKER_03]: Using their voice in a microphone going...
[SPEAKER_02]: like this is weird.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is definite.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is like a tails of January level pitch.
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, so that one's number 62, not a whole lot else on that one, but it is interesting and it would be cool for this to show up and say the next elder scrolls and fight and we find out that Amanda is now more powerful because of this and also the emperor or something, you know, dude, this guy who or this gal, whoever this person is, it's a guy, yes, it's a guy that posted this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, the person who posted the, I'm not sure exactly who posted this like, okay, so whoever it is that post of this, could you imagine how vindicated they would feel if that actually ended up being the case.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, and I think some some of them like this come from just like somebody posting on the forum somewhere so just somebody added into a
[SPEAKER_03]: And I spurred in the list was like oh this is an interesting thought right and a lot of these icebergs are built up off of other icebergs over the years they'll take one that was like 120 entries and then they'll double that and then somebody also take that and they'll add more yeah it's just bigger that's why I want the biggest one I could possibly find yeah this is the most to go through right right right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Alright, number 63, Carthwaston, Massacre, an alleged massacre perpetuated by these storm cloaks mentioned during the season unending quest in Skyrim.
[SPEAKER_03]: The event itself is not mentioned again in game or in additional lore.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is another one I tried to look into and there isn't a whole lot I can find about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Carthwaston is a small mining town in the reach.
[SPEAKER_03]: The mines at the in this little mining town are owned by a Bretton named Anathach, Anathach, some like this, words are hard for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: And these are the only two mines in this town in all of Skyrim that are run by a non-nord.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there is a little bit of a like racial something going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's also right out the gate a little peculiar because that's just uncommon for the area.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the event to the massacre happens in this town, and it's referenced just one time in the dialogue in this one quest line and something about like, oh, where the storm cloak massacre occurred.
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't specifically say the storm cloaks massacre to these people or the storm cloaks were massacre.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_03]: some of the languages missing there and so we're just kind of left to go okay there was a massacre yeah there was a massacre not even sure who was massacres right it involves storm clerks in some way i don't know if it was them responding to something in the village and being that they were pro-nord and the villages mostly or at least somewhat threatened maybe there is an altercation there or who knows maybe there was some sort of imperial skirmish and the people in the village who are storm clerks
[SPEAKER_03]: pulled out their weapons and got into it.
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't really know what we do know is that when you get to the town in Skyrim, the event that happens is it has to do with the silver blood family in Markarth and they are sending murks into the town in order to bully the mine owners into selling the mines, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: So there is some racial tension there.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's some these people have money and want to get what they want from these people who have less money thing going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's some like, I don't know, wealth differences.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, cast differences, friction.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't, I don't know, everyone said that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's about all I could find out that one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, this is one of those ones that I've almost wondered is,
[SPEAKER_02]: bit of flavor to the world where it's something probably did happen, but it hasn't been fully fleshed out yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: And as a result, you just kind of get this one interpretation of a thing that happened, but it's not this like well documented event.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and it's just an aside.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just like in the dialogue, it's just like, yeah, where the storm cloak massacre.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, with the Carthway and Massacre happening with storm cloaks.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll go with the in-law version and then sort of just be like, these are video games, things that I have on this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: The in-law thing would be my thought is, um, you know, this is a small event that might have just massacre, might have actually just been like a small thing, like a fight pro code and somebody died, but like it was somebody that had
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, like that group is upset so they're going to call it a massacre.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, where is the other side?
[SPEAKER_02]: Might just be like, no, like, there was a fight and somebody didn't make it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, yes, somebody fell off this balcony in the fight.
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't intentional.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why?
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't even intentional.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that strikes me as almost like that was why the documentation isn't there.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really just kind of like the dual interpretation of a event that happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it has a deeper meaning to maybe,
[SPEAKER_02]: this person or or just anybody from that side, the it's a video game perspective that I would have on this, which I do think is probably also maybe the real reason that would discontrient at the other one is.
[SPEAKER_02]: they, somebody wrote that as if there was a thing, and they just never really did anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it was just like, oh, yeah, we could say that there was like a massacre in this area.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't really have time to get into it in this game or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: So whatever, it's just an offhand comment, but having that offhand comment,
[SPEAKER_02]: makes the world feel like there was an event here so it enriches the feel of it until you kind of look into it and it's like oh that's actually very shallow because there's not really a thing with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that usually from an out-external game development kind of perspective, these things in at least in my understanding happen in one of two ways.
[SPEAKER_03]: Either there is some sort of document that they've built out that's like the Bible of the things that happened in Skyrim that everyone keeps referencing.
[SPEAKER_03]: and one of those things is legitimately the Carth Whaston Massacre and any of the writers, any of the quest designers can reference it because it's in the lore or there are so many writers and so many people creating quest lines and dialogue that sometimes they just have to add fill things out in order to make the world feel a little bit more lived in and so they come up with this idea of oh well maybe there was a massacre there but we don't really have it's not an official thing, no one else is going to reference it but
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll just vaguely point at something in order to make it feel a little bit deeper.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you can get into the scenario that I talked about.
[SPEAKER_02]: To start with, we're like, well, you know, maybe it's an interpretation thing, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's most likely what this one is would be my guess.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And barking in chat mentioned, this is a good thing I wanted to point out as well, barking.
[SPEAKER_03]: Your bark has got a good eye for their so good ear for this.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, this is the
[SPEAKER_03]: the very true and that could play into it and all sorts of maybe the rich really had an uprising.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's actually a really good point because there's so much conflict that happens in general in the reach from reachmen, Imperials, North, like so many different groups kind of have there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's on high alert in the reach against everybody who is in for them right right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, so yeah, the fact that this is near Mark Arthur.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is in the reach.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's actually that's a very good point.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so that could be part of it as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: But again, nothing else to point to this in the lore that we can find.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're left speculating, but it does seem reasonable to think that this isn't just.
[SPEAKER_03]: a line that somebody said that that there as it was actually in the law or in altercation of some sort least did a vet of some type.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I thought it's keeping me awake.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we're good.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're good.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's the Carthwast and Masker.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not a whole lot more.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's say about that one.
[SPEAKER_03]: But let's move on to number 64.
[SPEAKER_03]: Those of you who have played Oblivion or the remaster.
[SPEAKER_03]: will be familiar with this one, the gray cowl.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is one of my favorite magical enchanted artifacts, because so it's so over the top.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, and this is summically unchecked levels of power.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, and I remember, so we've talked about this before, my first legitimate Elder Scrolls experience was playing all the way through oblivion.
[SPEAKER_03]: I dabbled in more wind, bounced off it a little bit, it was a little too crunchy for me at the time, for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: But when oblivion came out, and I hadn't played the other ones before that, so oblivion was my first Elder Scrolls.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when I played three Elder Scrolls, there are moments that hit me and I went,
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, this universe is cool because I didn't expect that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Things like the way the Dark Brotherhood questline plays out.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like the way a lot of those guilds in the writing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so the thief guild plays out with the gray cow.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the description here is a dangerc artifact of nocturnal, which appears in multiple TES games, and as magical properties which cause the wearer to have his identity replaced with that of the legendary thief, the gray fox, one more.
[SPEAKER_03]: For a time, it was cursed to erase the where-from-history.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that whole thing about being totally not like anonymous, and yet, you don't even know, who you were just disappears from history?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't just disguise you.
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't just do something like, make you invisible.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's your existence.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It actually makes your entire existence invisible, which is really cool to think about.
[SPEAKER_03]: So,
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't have a whole lot else to say about this one.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is one of those, like, if you play through the game, you know it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was going to say this is just sort of a, hey, here's a data card effect and it's one of the coolest in game ones.
[SPEAKER_02]: In my opinion, and it's.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, it's the most, it's one of the most over the top powerful things in a video game that I've ever played because it's just like, oh, I need to go do some shady stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll just put this on real quick, everybody hates you, whatever everybody doesn't trust you, but you commit all crimes and felonies you want, and then you walk out.
[SPEAKER_02]: in to an area where nobody's paying attention and you take off the hood and suddenly you're right back to not being guilty of anything because it wasn't you the did it it was the great fox this is a great fox did it yeah funny story which I can just do as a tangent just because it's it's a
[SPEAKER_02]: very oblivion and a very Bethesda style story.
[SPEAKER_02]: My college roommate we went through a lot of hoops when we were in college to get a 360 which were very hard to get at the time and I wanted it for oblivion that was the thing and we got it, we were playing through it and basically I had to take turns because it's not a co-op game and his first
[SPEAKER_02]: gameplay play through ended when he was doing the Thiefs Guild.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when you talk to the gray fox at various points before you get the mask, he tells him, like, oh, you know, let's talk about, you know, it's never good to skip your dialogue.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, oh, you know, I'm just going to skip through this, whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's skipping through the dialogue with the
[SPEAKER_02]: He accidentally clicks, you know, no, I don't want to take the next question or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, oh, I'll just come back to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the great fun gets up walks off the little platform.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and he's like, hey, where's he going?
[SPEAKER_02]: And tries talking to him again, and the gray fox just like doesn't interact with him.
[SPEAKER_02]: He does like one of those musely, they'll interact, but sometimes when they're in the middle of an animation, they'll just go, hmm, and then they'll like continue their thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're like looking at you, but then they keep walking.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, until they finish whatever their program like walking path is, and then once they get to it, they're interacting again, and he walks out the city's gates and it's gone forever.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he can't finish the feast.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh no, did he reload a save?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did he?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or did the problem was?
[SPEAKER_02]: He hadn't saved him about five hours.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he just had a quick save of the great fox leaving.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was chasing him outside, which overrooted quick save.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, see more.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, just a, hey, so just like that, it worked on us too, because he walked away and he couldn't find this fear from existence.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that stuff that kind of stuff does happen, which is why I should save your game regularly and do actual hard saves not just because you see the game say auto saving.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a good reminder that you should actually save.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely, but this is one of okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the other question I have about this isn't so much like does it exist obviously uses.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yet how do you at Bethesda follow up a game that's been around multiple iterations of a game like this with all these really crazy ideas and callbacks like as they'll bring back a digital item from like a previous game or two that hasn't been focused on.
[SPEAKER_03]: But so many people at this point know about all of these things.
[SPEAKER_03]: So many people listen to shows like ours or watch more videos or have played through the games of potential.
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you one-up that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Or how do you, I think even more interesting, how do you bring back the great howl but make it interesting again in a way that would also be unexpected?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I hate to say it, but nowadays everybody would be like, oh, it's the most old p-thing and it's going to just be 50 million YouTube videos saying the exact same thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I broke the new Elder Scrolls game.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know the Elder Scrolls game.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can beat the game in 11 minutes if you just put this thing on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Robloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblobloblob
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so do you think if they added, if they made it even more powerful, or if they, it's, it's almost like there needs to be a context for it to show up in an unexpected way.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, my thought would be if you're going to do it day to day card effect this powerful.
[SPEAKER_02]: At least mechanically, because that's a lot of our crazy powerful in different ways, but you just win just game play mechanics.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I just let's you completely just destroy the game, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do whatever you want to play.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, do you have an idea for what you would like me to do for something I would like to.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so what I would suggest is you've got to make some part of the quest line explaining why it needs to be scaled back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of Nocturnal's power has been removed, but some limitations to it, so that it's not.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then maybe once you do whatever said thing, you can return it to this completely over the top power, whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I would think you can't bring it in the way they did the first, because people already go around.
[SPEAKER_02]: They'll know it's broken.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the majority.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be like 10% of nerds like us, but I'm sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: But enough people would know to go, oh, we got to search this thing out.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas if you scale it back for a while, any of their make you earn the power back, or just explain why it's like, yeah, it's good, but it doesn't erase your history essentially.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can't ever get caught doing anything wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So here's what I would do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would still get keep it behind a quest line.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you can't get it out of doubt.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't just steal it from someone that actually deserves a video.
[SPEAKER_02]: That says, hey, I figured it was right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: But here's the twist.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that you make the theme-skilled quest line feel almost like it's exactly the same quest line from oblivion.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then people are like, wait a minute, this is really, did they just do the, and then the twist is that there's more than one gray cowl, there's more than one gray fox, there's not just one gray cowl, meaning that there's actually, I would say like three of them out there, which means there are three people who keep on getting confused for being the gray fox simultaneously, but they each have different motives, which is why the actions of the gray fox don't actually make sense at some point.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you end up getting one of the gray cows, but then you have to hunt down whoever else has a gray cow and try to figure out what they're doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you can through the beginning of the question and you're like, Oh, this feels a lot like the one from oblivion.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm pretty sure what's going to happen here.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then as soon as that realization hits, you go, wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_03]: How is there still a gray fox out there doing stuff if I'm the gray fox?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, that's a fun idea.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and then you can explain it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can explain it as like, well, you know, nocturnal decided to make more artifacts, or would be even more more wacky would be like, yeah, I think she would go or if duplicated.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was going to say something figured out how to duplicated.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it might not even be intentional from nocturnal.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it would be really because we know, show, show, go or have like, messes with the other things or mess with people.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: and in the other data too, especially.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, oh, yeah, for him to be like, got a hold of your great cow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, now there's three, and I'm going to drop them off in different villages or towns.
[SPEAKER_03]: Good luck.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Insert cheese pun.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, no, no, that's that's neat.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: So,
[SPEAKER_03]: I think you got to do like these are the kinds of things that like if I was working for Bethesda I would be brainstorming like okay how do you how do you then twist it a little bit in a way that people aren't going to expect because people are going to start thinking they're going to get we're going to get a lot of the same stuff and if it isn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: Two news are going to completely after this much time.
[SPEAKER_02]: People have ruminated on this so long.
[SPEAKER_02]: It starts becoming a problem, not just with the elders scrolls or Bethesda Games in general, which are notoriously lengthy in between entries.
[SPEAKER_02]: The problem is when people have too much time to ruminate on something, they will
[SPEAKER_02]: end up likely coming up with so many theories because there's so many millions of people involved with these theories that it starts becoming hard to actually get one something that hasn't already been thought of.
[SPEAKER_02]: And two.
[SPEAKER_02]: somebody's probably going to come up with something really cool and if it's not that and that catches traction.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even if it's a good twist or a good story, it ends up being a letdown because people had already kind of fixated on this thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: They did like and because it's not that thing, it's by default not as good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not fully true.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not
[SPEAKER_02]: Not to go on a tangent, but like, uh...
[SPEAKER_02]: I felt bad because so many people were on board with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, there's no, not to be a downer, but I was like, there's no way this is this cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: At the end of the thing, when they're like, there's going to, there's like the secret episode after the last episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it was a stranger thing when people were convinced that the last episode was not the final episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: Correct, and I was like, yeah, not to be a downer.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's too cool for this.
[SPEAKER_03]: They did not write that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they didn't, and in the fact of the finding, there's a whole, you write, this is a tangent, but the whole final episode,
[SPEAKER_03]: feels like I don't have it like why I didn't understand why people thought that wasn't a final episode, but even still I was like dude They left the final episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, no, no, I don't think they That's a good idea for something different totally.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I was like, there's no there's no
[SPEAKER_03]: it's not uncommon for for writers to leave open-ended endings for things that they just don't want to leave kind of in the air.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not what I mean.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, without obviously splitting stranger things.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that's an even bad open.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like, the big question was did a certain kind of live or not.
[SPEAKER_02]: Never die.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: But no, that that's the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, when given enough people too much time and somebody's going to come up with something that's cooler than what even happened and just by default, when something's cooler than even something that's cool, the reference ends up being just the problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, oh, well, this isn't as good as this, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard to hit that sweet spot of enough time for people to think on stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: and get the speculation going, but not too much time, but it gets ahead of the writing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that would be fun if you, if you, if anybody who listens to this who's like, oh, it's a really cool idea, and you decide to share it, please, please credit us and tell people, hey, check out this episode where they brought up that idea.
[SPEAKER_03]: That would be wonderful.
[SPEAKER_03]: There have been times in the past where we've definitely done episodes, not just on this show, but on other shows, where it's like a week after the episode comes out, I see somewhere on Reddit where somebody's like, here's a cool idea, and I'm like,
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a clear coincidence, but okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we're right after it aired, thinking a reference would be nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I heard this over here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, luckily at this point, there's enough of our friends that listen to this, where it's like, it seems like things catch on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: That really doesn't bug away too much from.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it is nice if your fan of the show does help the show out, so.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's nice to just like we try our best to credit whoever actually suggest stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and so did this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's a great idea.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Number 65, former whisp mothers.
[SPEAKER_03]: This one is interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: This an in-use in-universe theory presented in the book The Whisp Mother.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is one of the books you can read in Elder Scrolls, specifically in Skyrim.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the author is Matthias Etien, and I'm going to read it to you because this is interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a whole document about the nature of wisdom others and how people in universe aren't really sure where they came from or what they actually are.
[SPEAKER_03]: So here we'll read through a real quick, the wisdom other two theories.
[SPEAKER_03]: Among the folk tales of the northern reaches of Skyrim, few subjects are as popular as the Wistmother, ghostly women who lure unsuspecting travelers to their doom, steel children, and take vengeance on those who wronged them in life.
[SPEAKER_03]: Similar tales exist throughout Tamriel.
[SPEAKER_03]: The Methusen-Me-Nae, Methusen-Ae of Strosma-Kai, whose lure, who lure ships to wreck on jagged
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm run-all a valenwood, of course, these are weird words.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm loving letting you go through the heat.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've never done that to people that really probably do this any better, but it's just fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some percentage of our show is always just me bumbling words.
[SPEAKER_03]: But unlike these mythical creatures, most scholars can see that whispers actually exist.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's other ones, not so much, but whispers for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we've run into them in the games.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, semi-common.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so though rare, credible reports of their sightings are simply too frequent to be ignored.
[SPEAKER_03]: Here in, a synopsis of what can be gleaned from provincial legends and the dominant theory of what may what they may actually be.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is the first theory.
[SPEAKER_03]: With mothers, most tales agree on only a few basic facts about, with mothers.
[SPEAKER_03]: They are always female.
[SPEAKER_03]: They take the form of human,
[SPEAKER_03]: They have an affinity for frost magic rarely appearing in more tempered climbs.
[SPEAKER_03]: But beyond that, the tales differ widely.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some say they are ghosts waiting to be laid to rest.
[SPEAKER_03]: Others that they are all their remnants of the snow elves who once ruled Skyrim.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some say they are native to Yamarch, or the north more generally, but other tales mentioned them in forgotten places on mountaintops as far away as the yarls.
[SPEAKER_03]: Most reputable scholars dismiss these theories, preferring instead to focus on the few documented sightings from recent years.
[SPEAKER_03]: From these two dominant theories have emerged, based on his extensive research into necromancy and cereodil's alien culture, master, sadrin, serethy, posits that whispers are a necrologic state.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that word, necrologic.
[SPEAKER_03]: Very fancy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, a type of lichdom developed by a now forgotten first era culture, under his theory, these are no mere ghosts.
[SPEAKER_03]: They are a cult of powerful sorceresses who achieve eternal life through undef.
[SPEAKER_03]: Alternatively, lidet, vilean, of the synod contends that with mothers are not undead at all, but rather elemental manifestations arising
[SPEAKER_03]: By noting several similarities to Spriggins and ice-rathes, she contends that the whisp mothers are essentially elemental personifications of snow or mist, innately wielding the power of their elements instead of manipulating it through conventional sorcery.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, this book goes on, it's got a number of more paragraphs, I'm not going to read them all, but I'll give you a quick synopsis.
[SPEAKER_03]: The undead version gets even creepier because, of course, the wisp mothers happen to have little wisp that fly around them.
[SPEAKER_03]: What are the wisps?
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's debate in the, in the, in the document about, well, they're usually seen by themselves, but for some reason they're with the wisp mothers.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I actually like how there's like...
[SPEAKER_02]: that's a very like real world science where it's people having different hypothesis.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, hypotheses.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the question is like, what are the whispers?
[SPEAKER_03]: And then some of the theories are, well, maybe they're the children of the mothers, that they sick on people, or maybe they are the souls of victims who are now caught up in the undead curse that the evil, undead sorceresses used in order to cause their own eternal when putting it in air quotes, eternal life.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then there's other debates about like what's going on with the whispers and maybe they are more related to the elemental side of things and that kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: But what do you think?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because this is a fun little debate, like a little in-world debate about where they come from.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've come across them.
[SPEAKER_03]: They do look kind of undead.
[SPEAKER_03]: but they also feel kind of elemental.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they definitely give like a weird like, almost a dual vibe of like, someone had some elemental ties, whether you know, the witch or whatever, which is pretty common with the weird and all of that in the series.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, it seems to me like, it's definitely maybe a little of both, which is often, yeah, all things kind of work, where it's like, you know, that some strong elemental ties,
[SPEAKER_02]: We're probably were a parial creature originally for whatever reason got tied to this and I don't necessarily think the whispers are like their kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, but maybe smaller elemental spirits that when
[SPEAKER_02]: said elemental ties, you know, whatever they were doing, might be attracted to someone that is like this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it really is someone anymore as a something.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like, that ends up drawing whispers to this like larger entity.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's sort of my thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's probably a little of both would be my thought.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, or the whisper like smaller mini versions of them that haven't been fully developed or something.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, bees are whatever they are, I haven't even thought about that very much, but there's kind of a, they have a similar functionality, there's similar vibe where there are themes like with mothers do feel themed around ice, but then that still can be very litchy kind of undead thing the cold.
[SPEAKER_03]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I feel like it could go either way and it's kind of a fun discussion and with mothers go way back like they've been in the series for a long time they've been around for a long time So it could be one or the other and it's kind of fun to just hear the discussion about it and and also the idea that like maybe they were from a first era
[SPEAKER_02]: All in all a cool one definitely not a well, it's it's definitely this or something or the other, but he leaves you wondering what's definitely this one is definitely an iceberg notable one because it's like, yeah, this isn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is definitely a thing in the series, but it doesn't have any definitive explanation to it yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, why is it here?
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And one of the explanations is it has something to do with the former or the snow elves and their magic, but I don't see as much evidence for that because we see a lot of with mothers and places where there wouldn't have been snow elves or former.
[SPEAKER_03]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean,
[SPEAKER_02]: the assertion that they're mostly North sure because of the climate, but they're not exclusively North by any means.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that seems to put more evidence towards the elemental side of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're also, you know, it's one of those things ESO does a lot with it, but there's like naryids and they share a lot in common with those as much as they have a lot in common with
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the sprig-in idea, um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, and those are definitely not in, in northern regions and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll find them, you know, down down in, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: Greg Lauren and that whole area.
[SPEAKER_03]: So right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there you go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's know your thoughts on that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe you have some insight or some some found some connections that we didn't on that one, but we've got one more.
[SPEAKER_03]: This one we said would be controversial.
[SPEAKER_03]: It has to do thumbnail of what this episode is going to have on YouTube, which is going to say basically there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, what?
[SPEAKER_03]: How did I phrase it?
[SPEAKER_03]: They're literally Nazis.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's the way I phrase the text of the thumbnail.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's about the thumber and this is thumber eugenic purges.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the description as described in rising threat volume four, which is a series of books.
[SPEAKER_03]: The first thing the thumber did after you
[SPEAKER_03]: This was also given as an excuse to purge dissidence.
[SPEAKER_03]: In Skyrim, Delphine mentions that Malburn's family was killed by the thomor during a purge in Valenwood.
[SPEAKER_03]: Although it is unclear if said purge was motivated by eugenics.
[SPEAKER_03]: For anyone who doesn't know, eugenics is all about racial.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm putting this in quotes again.
[SPEAKER_03]: Racial purity and has origins that go not only back to Nazis, but before that, and is one of, uh,
[SPEAKER_03]: Just flat out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it shouldn't be controversial.
[SPEAKER_03]: Say this even though it is sometimes Nazis are bad.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Nazi ideals ideas are bad don't be a Nazi, but what this does is it don't be a Nazi it kind of cement the idea that the thumb or are the Nazis of the Elder Scrolls universe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I mean, I mean, it's literally like the writing style to them.
[SPEAKER_02]: around Skyrim time that they needed like they are written as kind of like, oh, this is a huge threat to the other diverse groups in the area, which is exactly what started the real world equivalent of World War II.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, yeah, I'm just going to think of a lot of power grabs, but yeah, but it's very, very similar parallels.
[SPEAKER_02]: so much is real world counterpart for the design of things in the Elder Scrolls.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now they make them unique.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like this is, that was just it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It really, yeah, this is one of the ones it's I wouldn't say this is as blatant as you played the game.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, I mean, it's really, it's not even as much hinted at so much as just said throughout the game that it's essentially that there are references.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the reference in the book here is probably the most specific, yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I wanted to read the paragraphs, not the whole book, just the paragraphs that actually address this, because it's worth pointing out and seeing it in in context.
[SPEAKER_03]: But to to your point, the the methods that
[SPEAKER_03]: Power, putting this in quotes, air quotes again, powerful authoritarian leaders use in order to seize power are usually very similar to each other and involve things like that like eugenics.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that makes sense that you would, you would take those patterns and you would use them in fantasy world.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, because unfortunately it does tend to be rather effective for quite a while of controlling the masses until fascism eventually eats itself, which is almost always the case.
[SPEAKER_03]: But here, let's read through, let's read through this section here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, potentate octo acado, messin' up names again, his murder began the storm crown into regnum, the Elder Scrolls fractured, leading into years of ruthless infighting plots and backstabbing, many tried to claim the ruby throne, most were pretenders to the crown if you had the legitimate claims.
[SPEAKER_03]: Others were still more than brutal dullards who thought mere strength of arms was all the entitlement they needed.
[SPEAKER_03]: Violent unnatural storms last to the imperial city, several times during this anarchy, which is interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Always with the eye of the storm looking directly down upon White Gold Tower as if this was judgment of the nine devines.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm going to add this in, or was some type of nature magic that we know, different groups have been able to wield before, and might have been set up by the Thalmer.
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't really know, with the empires submerged in this mayhem, the Thalmer were quick to act.
[SPEAKER_03]: They overthrew the rightful kings and queens of the Altmer.
[SPEAKER_03]: More evidence as to why they might be have been behind the storms.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember the revulsion and horror that took hold when word reached me that this dementia had gripped my homeland.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is being written by an imperial scholar who was also an altmer, not a farmer, but an altmer.
[SPEAKER_03]: Once so proud and majestic, many of our great race actually embraced this insanity, then the first of my pogroms descended on summer set aisle.
[SPEAKER_03]: They slaughtered any who were not, quote, of the blood of the Aldmer, a fine excuse to purge the dissidents as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: The thommer have never been ones to waste such an opportunity.
[SPEAKER_03]: After seven long bloody years, the storm crown in Thregnam was ended with a Colombian warlord by the name of Titus Mead.
[SPEAKER_03]: He says the crown, whether he had rifle claim or not is moot, whether Titus Mead there was, uh,
[SPEAKER_03]: there would not be an empire today.
[SPEAKER_03]: He proved a shrewd and capable leader such that Skyrim endorsed him as emperor.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thus that whole section of things ends.
[SPEAKER_03]: But the most important part in here is that Thalmer were absolutely behind a lot of these things.
[SPEAKER_03]: And seemingly by somebody who is a high elf, we're willing to do things like purge anybody who was not of their race.
[SPEAKER_02]: you can probably pull some pretty convincing magic tricks and then try to convince people that it's divine intervention and not actually you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Or come up with just locations for why you are so much better than these other races.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's that and then even unfortunately it ends up being a situation of like oftentimes it's just
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we'll be your friend as long as we need you, um, you know, there's the big thing about the kajit losing the moons in history and I was going to say that I'm more basically, uh, or, you know, the, the dominion coming in and being like, oh, yeah, no, we, we brought them back.
[SPEAKER_02]: as opposed to just like, you know, do they just come back, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, they just like, well, this is a good thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we'll take claim for it.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll claim it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was all right.
[SPEAKER_02]: But everybody already knows our magic prowess.
[SPEAKER_02]: So is it weird to try to convince people that maybe not type a deal?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it's like, well, okay, now you're on our side.
[SPEAKER_02]: At least for as long as we need you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we've seen in real time how effective it is to just claim that you are responsible for good things even when you're not.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like there is a percentage of the population that absolutely will work on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and it's larger than often times you would expect.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, so yeah, so that is part of what's going on here.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think the real question becomes because this is an iceberg.
[SPEAKER_03]: Are where the eugenics real?
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that becomes the question.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that there's enough evidence to say, it sounds terrible, but it seems like an absolutely seems real.
[SPEAKER_02]: It seems like it had started at bare minimum.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, how far they're going to go with it, because I'll just go five ends, and we don't have our conclusion, because we're still waiting on Elder Scrolls 6.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we don't have any mainline games set in Somerset.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, at least not since arena, which is further in the past.
[SPEAKER_03]: But the events that happened in Skyrim do include them or who were up in Skyrim, but we're not seeing the things they're doing within around their own people.
[SPEAKER_03]: So much has in a foreign land.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we don't really have direct witness evidence, but we do have a lot of rumor that has traveled.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: horrific genocides are not something that are out of the realm of possibility.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had mentioned the former earlier.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look how that went when it started with Nord's getting murdered, countering by ultramurdering the snow elves.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then as a result, they try to flee because it's like, okay, wow, we're on the brink of just annihilation here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, this is almost like,
[SPEAKER_02]: completely exterminating our race, and then as a side effect, they go somewhere else for refuge, which the point there enslaved, and then essentially you could almost argue that race was eliminated for the most part because they became something else, and there was
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a few remnants of snow elves, but that's really the end of that whole scenario.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like it's totally a thing in the series, not even just from the Alpmer.
[SPEAKER_03]: The Dunmer treatment of beast races, or the you could win when they migrated to Tamriel and they cleanse the land of everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: the needs who were there in Hammerfell or whatever in order to claim land for themselves.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like this is, but again, historically the idea that like different people groups wanted the land of other people groups or whatever and decided to just kill large swaths of people seems like it's pretty sadly common occurrence historically and that's kind of how it works.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again back when they were referred to it as the arena it was supposedly
[SPEAKER_02]: everything was considered a fighting pit because it's just always the most brutal land that existed.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep, yep.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think this one's highly likely.
[SPEAKER_03]: If anything, I have a feeling that if we get more evidence about the things the Falmore have actually done that it will be even more horrifying than what we might imagine they've done.
[SPEAKER_03]: because it seems like they have a, almost a, no, definitely, a religious reason for doing anything they possibly can to make the ends that they want to come about.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so they have, in their minds, the ends justify the means and they, there's no, there's no boundary that's too far.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and I would say they're not nearly as evil overtly in the Elder Scrolls Online, but this is for the, yeah, it's before they really came to power.
[SPEAKER_02]: The second era version of the Alt-Marie Dominion that
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, has the Falmore agents and stuff like that, you can see underpinnings of some of this with more of the fringe groups, because right, Queen A Ren definitely seemed like she had a much more altruistic goal to, you know, ending some of the conflicts, where is some of the fringe groups with the Falmore and stuff like that, but it's just like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Definitely pretty messed up with some of like, oh, they got to the histories and are like literally trying to smash the Argonian egg so that they can't reproduce and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, not nearly as far, but everything kind of starts from World War Two to World One to World War Two.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: You see the origins of the ideology and then the way it develops over time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we didn't episode on the film where we've discussed how they started as just kind of this like governmental group.
[SPEAKER_03]: and they've expanded to eventually take more control and more power and they became more extreme over time.
[SPEAKER_03]: And how they weren't always this like deeply-seated evil ideologically-evaled group.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that did change over time and now one where the events of Skyrim and eventually the next Elder Scrolls game, we're expecting that we're going to see where this goes because it seems like it's something that's been building.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, so that seems to be the case.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there you go.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's the Palmer eugenics purges.
[SPEAKER_03]: Man, landed on a, ended on a positive note on this one.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really, it's just, what an upper.
[SPEAKER_03]: What an upper?
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, tell you what.
[SPEAKER_03]: People helping support the show is an upper.
[SPEAKER_03]: And those of you who have decided to support us on Patreon.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we will be right back.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to thank our patrons.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we've got the random UESP page.
[SPEAKER_03]: So don't go anywhere.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll be right back.
[SPEAKER_01]: you're listening to the Elder Scrolls World cast the child of cities, but it's why the night Mother loves you.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and Mintaka.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And we've got a new review that came in on Apple podcast.
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[SPEAKER_03]: This is from Weeping Willow One, who writes, love it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Every day I got back from school, I would look forward to listening to this podcast from the vast and entertaining discussions and great lore.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is an amazing podcast.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I appreciate that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, Lotus anything you want to share before we talk about the random page?
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, no, we're aiming to hopefully record an episode of Tales of this weekend, you know, presented by the USP, the other podcast, really to the Elder Scrolls that I do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, as I've been playing a decent amount in game with my free time as well as Ark, had gone to the ESO tavern, so we want to get his Tales on all of that, because it sounds like that was a super fun time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but I was away last weekend when he got back, um, so now we'll be able to coordinate and come up with an episode hopefully this weekend for everybody.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cool, cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: I hope that works out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got, of course, my stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's, of course, the network, robots radio.net for all the shows on the network.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you'd like some help starting your own podcast, I'm happy to help you out.
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[SPEAKER_03]: There are ways that you can join the network.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can sign up.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can be a part of this.
[SPEAKER_03]: And also, if you want to check out any of the other stuff I do, you can check out the file.orgast, where I, the last episode that just went up this week, I talked about vaults that should be canon, but aren't.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of a fun episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: And also the Lord of the Rings Lord Castan Retro Recall.
[SPEAKER_03]: So go check out those shows if you are interested in more of my stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: But notice we've got the random page.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got it right here.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is, of course, the UESP.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the independent wiki that we always reference and friends of the show and all of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a people, a person in the people.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's in the people category.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's a people from Elder Scrolls Online.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to say the name and I'm the I would be very surprised if you're like, oh, I remember who that is classic doc workers three.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, great.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so general fancy fancy, fancy important person Raylon.
[SPEAKER_02]: name actually does some familiar but I don't know why it's probably just because I vaguely remember talking to them in whatever quest they were part of a lay on snow and falls.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well here's what the description says.
[SPEAKER_03]: General Ray Lund was an officer of the Alessian forces at the Battle of Glennum Bromores.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nope, not the place I was thinking of.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm pretty sure this was one of those flashback scenes in one of those early quest lines where you got like flashback.
[SPEAKER_03]: You saw the ghost versions of like the people fighting and you had to like do the things in order to relive moments when you get a couple of those on the main daggerfall covenant quest line.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so this is Glen number more, so this is an imperial.
[SPEAKER_03]: He has 60,000, 370 health.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's hot style.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's a spirit.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he is one of those ghost things.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a related quest as ripple effect, helped discover a way to defeat an ancient enemy.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he does have some skills, so he put up a little bit of a fight, but
[SPEAKER_03]: That's about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this page is actually very, very small.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a feeling he's just one of like one of the names characters among this army and yeah, I was going to say is absolutely not the person I was saying was like, Oh, no, that name sounds familiar and the person I think he's whoever the hell their name is is absolutely not that one.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there you go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this one I was just like I would be very surprised if you're like, yeah, I remember in that guy Yeah, the battle a good number more is I remember them.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were the third tent on the left I'm like, let me tell you about the battle of glamour moles.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was it it was a terrible time I lost three friends in the battle
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, um, yeah, we're all going to do it for this week.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody, thank you so much for tuning in and being a part of this and we will be back next week with our patron chat and then of course we'll be back to iceberg stuff digging deeper deeper into the iceberg.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we'd love for you to join us again for those.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you next time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Stay safe out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: See you later.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for tuning in to the Elder Scrolls lorecast.
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