WEBVTT 00:28.393 --> 00:31.455 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, hey, everybody, it is update time. 00:31.575 --> 00:36.398 [SPEAKER_01]: Today, we are going to share our return from break date and some other show business. 00:37.079 --> 00:39.320 [SPEAKER_01]: And we finally have news about Cameron Hookers case. 00:39.360 --> 00:44.724 [SPEAKER_01]: We have an update to Erin Christian since case Seattle had to settle a suit as did Oregon. 00:45.004 --> 00:46.965 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to chat a little about camp Erin. 00:47.085 --> 00:51.348 [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, we will visit Josh's library corner and hot streamers. 00:51.768 --> 00:53.369 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's get to it. 00:54.590 --> 00:57.591 [SPEAKER_01]: So, how is everyone's summer going thus far? 00:57.971 --> 00:59.872 [SPEAKER_01]: ours has been going pretty smoothly. 01:00.372 --> 01:10.735 [SPEAKER_01]: We had the Josh, maybe you could fill in the adjective of going to Cordelaine, Idaho for family wedding, which was a beautiful ceremony and reception. 01:11.036 --> 01:12.096 [SPEAKER_00]: Fairly eye opening. 01:12.356 --> 01:15.919 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, eye opening is good because that's not positive or negative. 01:16.339 --> 01:21.383 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a lot of white, a lot of white eyes and maybe tilted heads is crazy. 01:21.523 --> 01:28.188 [SPEAKER_01]: Trying to smile but also like trying to not be like you'll let the hell why is every single sign red, white and blue? 01:29.268 --> 01:32.651 [SPEAKER_01]: Why is the axe throwing place called axe force one? 01:33.712 --> 01:35.133 [SPEAKER_01]: What does that have to do with anything? 01:35.313 --> 01:38.015 [SPEAKER_00]: Why did the merch I looked up at that barber shop? 01:41.792 --> 01:56.853 [SPEAKER_01]: lean nothing it was like it was I went to January 6 then all I got was part in it was country wise landscape wise lovely and the wedding was great we've got some time on the water got to see family 01:57.593 --> 02:15.323 [SPEAKER_01]: It was really lovely in that regard and I'm currently also tits deep in a full home purge of junk and deep cleaning so again This break has been much needed and very much appreciated and I thank everyone who's been like hey guys have a great break Because it's summer we all know how that is 02:16.423 --> 02:21.767 [SPEAKER_01]: With that, I looked at the calendar and we're going to be back on Tuesday, August 25th. 02:21.847 --> 02:25.130 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll be back to our regular schedule of having an episode every other week. 02:25.410 --> 02:30.194 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't decided if we'll start with another update because I really do always get so many updates about cases. 02:30.234 --> 02:34.598 [SPEAKER_01]: So we might ease back in with another update of what the end of summer has been like. 02:34.618 --> 02:38.180 [SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully we'll just be like, wow, wasn't that the best month of our lives, everybody? 02:38.381 --> 02:38.761 [SPEAKER_00]: August? 02:39.602 --> 02:39.802 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 02:40.062 --> 02:41.403 [SPEAKER_00]: That almost never happens. 02:41.683 --> 02:43.525 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to be optimistic. 02:44.912 --> 02:51.832 [SPEAKER_01]: Now we want to let you guys know that there is going to be a little bit of change regarding advertising on the show when we come back. 02:52.830 --> 03:14.495 [SPEAKER_01]: For all seven years of the show thus far, we have done our own advertising, meaning we've received a request from a company or a product and if it's something we've used or support, then we write an ad about our personal experience, and this is after we've done some vetting and choosing so that we can be mindful as possible while still participating in capitalism, 03:18.096 --> 03:36.664 [SPEAKER_01]: But all of that has been really important to us to be able to choose brands or companies or products that we either think are okay or, you know, we've passed on money lending or credit this or body modification things things like that, we're just like, no, we'd rather talk about books or other fun things. 03:36.948 --> 03:41.711 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's usually something we think our listeners would like because we would like it. 03:41.891 --> 03:42.131 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 03:43.172 --> 03:48.375 [SPEAKER_01]: So the change is that we've been hosted by Red Circle for several years. 03:48.415 --> 03:49.556 [SPEAKER_01]: Now probably six or so. 03:50.096 --> 03:51.577 [SPEAKER_01]: And we've enjoyed working with them. 03:52.318 --> 03:57.281 [SPEAKER_01]: However, we have now accepted an offer to work with I Heart Radio for hosting. 03:57.961 --> 04:00.723 [SPEAKER_01]: So we will still only have a couple of ads. 04:07.339 --> 04:12.542 [SPEAKER_01]: So once we come back, the ads are going to be automated, meaning they're going to be read by the company. 04:13.363 --> 04:20.448 [SPEAKER_01]: We are still going to vet the products in companies, and we're going to be really strict about what we allow, but we wanted to explain that difference when you hear it. 04:21.368 --> 04:25.991 [SPEAKER_01]: It really sucks, but everyone knows how expensive everything is right now. 04:26.211 --> 04:31.315 [SPEAKER_01]: So if we can pay a couple extra bills, or maybe help out our folks slash roommate, 04:32.135 --> 04:33.157 [SPEAKER_01]: we kind of need to do it. 04:33.257 --> 04:44.291 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're still going to make sure there's no AI and there's no funky anything just wanted to explain that before it happens and you go, what the hell is this other voice? 04:45.412 --> 04:45.993 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the answer. 04:47.385 --> 04:54.812 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, now for some case updates, after what feels like forever, we finally have word on the Cameron Hooker case. 04:55.453 --> 05:03.160 [SPEAKER_01]: As you'll recall, Cameron Hooker was responsible for kidnapping and holding Colleen Stan captive for seven years in a box under his bed. 05:03.700 --> 05:08.021 [SPEAKER_01]: He was convicted in 1984 but would be coming up for parole this year. 05:08.521 --> 05:16.243 [SPEAKER_01]: So back in 2020, the State of California started the process of basically trying him again but as a sexual predator. 05:16.763 --> 05:21.324 [SPEAKER_01]: For six years, the trial was scheduled, rescheduled, moved around. 05:21.944 --> 05:28.125 [SPEAKER_01]: Then finally, in June of this year, a jury found Cameron Hooker to be a violent sexual predator. 05:28.565 --> 05:44.014 [SPEAKER_01]: thus cancelling his parole and turning his custody over to the California Department of State hospitals where he will remain in a secure facility until the staff deems him safe or he, you know, leaves on his own if you will. 05:44.594 --> 05:44.914 [SPEAKER_00]: Winged. 05:45.654 --> 05:47.275 [SPEAKER_01]: So, good job to that jury. 05:47.756 --> 05:49.076 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for your service. 05:49.096 --> 05:53.959 [SPEAKER_01]: You had to listen to all of that incredibly difficult evidence and information and you put him in the 05:59.310 --> 06:12.775 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm relieved on behalf of everyone involved because this has been for over 40 years now of dealing with this dude and now it's official. 06:12.835 --> 06:13.976 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not going to be parole. 06:14.016 --> 06:17.677 [SPEAKER_01]: He's going to be in the hospital and hopefully he will stay there forever. 06:19.650 --> 06:27.378 [SPEAKER_01]: Now for an update to the Erin Christians in case, we've talked about this case a lot and you can get caught up by listening to our episode, Erin and buzzo. 06:27.999 --> 06:35.526 [SPEAKER_01]: As you may recall from that episode, Erin and his puppy buzz were out taking a hike during a friend's camping weekend when they were shot and killed. 06:35.967 --> 06:40.531 [SPEAKER_01]: The following morning, Erin and buzz's bodies were found and were removed from the difficult terrain. 06:41.212 --> 06:53.179 [SPEAKER_01]: I won't get into all of the details, but because of how Erin's death and how the subsequent investigation, or lack their of, occurred, Erin's family filed a $3 million lawsuit against the Azbok family. 06:53.700 --> 06:59.203 [SPEAKER_01]: That case was eventually settled by a federal judge who approved a voluntary settlement for an undisclosed amount. 06:59.392 --> 06:59.912 [SPEAKER_00]: question. 07:00.072 --> 07:01.953 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, who are the Aspoch family? 07:02.013 --> 07:12.618 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad you asked because again back in that episode, we learned about Ethan Aspoch and he for all intents and purposes took responsibility for the shooting. 07:12.698 --> 07:19.662 [SPEAKER_01]: He claimed he and his girlfriend who were out on a similar hike in that area heard some sort of noise. 07:19.722 --> 07:21.843 [SPEAKER_01]: They thought it was a wild animal and he 07:22.843 --> 07:33.326 [SPEAKER_01]: claims to have fired blindly into the woods and then he went over and saw that he had shot through buzzer, which went into Aaron and killed him. 07:33.906 --> 07:37.867 [SPEAKER_00]: My mind is pinging on and being related to law enforcement. 07:37.887 --> 07:38.407 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that true? 07:38.587 --> 07:39.408 [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of. 07:39.668 --> 07:49.430 [SPEAKER_01]: If I remember correctly, he works for or maybe has a family connection to a place that provides vehicles like ATVs to the local police department. 07:49.870 --> 07:50.691 [SPEAKER_00]: And why wasn't he 07:53.100 --> 07:57.864 [SPEAKER_01]: Because he thought it was an animal and then even when he saw it wasn't, it's Lewis County. 07:58.145 --> 07:59.886 [SPEAKER_00]: So is that that book that you have? 07:59.906 --> 08:00.687 [SPEAKER_00]: It sure is. 08:01.107 --> 08:02.429 [SPEAKER_00]: Where murderers go free. 08:02.569 --> 08:03.089 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh huh. 08:03.429 --> 08:07.813 [SPEAKER_00]: So, well, I guess I should have started with that question because that answered all my other questions. 08:07.893 --> 08:08.254 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 08:08.694 --> 08:08.954 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 08:09.855 --> 08:10.496 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a mess. 08:11.277 --> 08:12.879 [SPEAKER_01]: It's beyond frustrating. 08:13.219 --> 08:22.549 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why Erin's family has now submitted a complaint to the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission asking for an investigation of Erin and buzzers murders. 08:22.809 --> 08:23.530 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 08:23.570 --> 08:23.790 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 08:24.110 --> 08:30.718 [SPEAKER_01]: The family is once again pointing out the Miss Handling of the scene by the Lewis County Sheriff's Office and the Lewis County Coroner's Office. 08:31.258 --> 08:41.347 [SPEAKER_01]: They hope that by making corrections to Aaron's case and changes to the departments, which found up the investigation in the first place, maybe this won't happen to other families. 08:41.627 --> 08:50.255 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I won't get into the weeds of it, but the coroner said he smoked weed that had mushrooms or something and he overdosed. 08:50.295 --> 08:54.399 [SPEAKER_01]: And then, oh, we actually had a heart attack and the heart attack was brought on by the bullet in his chest. 08:56.460 --> 08:56.841 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't. 08:57.261 --> 09:03.966 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, the filed complaint is 11 pages long and it describes what is known about what took place that August evening. 09:04.366 --> 09:15.393 [SPEAKER_01]: How Aaron and Buzzo were out on a hike, how Ethan asked Buck the shooter would later say he heard growling in the woods so he fired a warning shot, inspecting what he had shot at, he found Buz and Aaron dead on the ground. 09:15.913 --> 09:22.438 [SPEAKER_01]: Ethan could see the bullet wound in Aaron and assumed he had been holding Buz and that single bullet, he fired went through both of them. 09:23.258 --> 09:27.701 [SPEAKER_01]: Even after knowing he shot and killed a puppy and human, he did not stop his hike. 09:27.761 --> 09:29.903 [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't try to get help from people in the area. 09:30.243 --> 09:32.805 [SPEAKER_01]: He did not attempt to get cell service to call for help. 09:33.205 --> 09:34.806 [SPEAKER_01]: He just left them there. 09:35.467 --> 09:42.732 [SPEAKER_01]: And I will always bring up this story because he doesn't get to just live his life without being known. 09:43.532 --> 09:55.239 [SPEAKER_01]: My favorite part of the complaint or the request for investigation is how the lawyer for Erin's family is kindly reminding the state about the $25 billion in revenue that outdoor recreation brought the state. 09:55.879 --> 10:05.485 [SPEAKER_01]: They would hate for the 5.6 million visitors to Lewis County in 2023 to find out how they won't protect those who visit their campgrounds and hiking trails. 10:05.965 --> 10:13.191 [SPEAKER_00]: They should put a sign up at the trailhead caution you may be murdered and we're not going to do shit about it. 10:13.211 --> 10:17.135 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it'll be botched and your family will be dealing with it for years. 10:18.104 --> 10:38.735 [SPEAKER_01]: The complaint reads, what visitors and citizens may not know is that if a crime occurs in Lewis County's wilderness area, LCSO and LCCO are either not trained or may disregard their training to conduct a proper investigation, including the basic obligation to preserve the crime scene and collect evidence in a careful and cogent manner. 10:39.603 --> 10:46.506 [SPEAKER_01]: Besides wanting to keep others safe, the family still wants and deserves to have Ethan Aspock face consequences for his actions. 10:47.066 --> 11:01.453 [SPEAKER_01]: He probably never will, so LCSO needs to face consequences for their actions, such as not properly training staff for a homicide scene, or not getting a warrant for Ethan's belongings and just accepting the headlamp and gun from his father. 11:02.234 --> 11:05.015 [SPEAKER_01]: Another piece of the story, Aaron's wallet was missing. 11:05.595 --> 11:07.057 [SPEAKER_01]: Was this a botched mugging? 11:07.458 --> 11:08.840 [SPEAKER_01]: There was no investigation. 11:08.920 --> 11:12.464 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're Erin's credit cards and identification used after his death. 11:13.045 --> 11:13.646 [SPEAKER_01]: Who knows? 11:14.607 --> 11:22.437 [SPEAKER_01]: As always, the pressure to have the police, the detectives, investigators and coroners do their job properly, falls on the family of the victim. 11:23.078 --> 11:33.584 [SPEAKER_01]: They not only want what is right by Erin and Buzz, they're working to make sure this kind of pain and pathetic example of police work does not cause the same kind of damage to any other family. 11:34.204 --> 11:39.267 [SPEAKER_01]: Lewis County is reviewing the complaint and we will keep you posted on any new developments. 11:41.213 --> 11:55.614 [SPEAKER_01]: I've mentioned former Seattle Chief of Police Adrian Diaz a few times, first he was dealing with a five million dollar sexual discrimination lawsuit, then as we sat down to record that update it was announced that Diaz would be removed from his position. 11:56.255 --> 12:00.842 [SPEAKER_01]: Now Seattle has settled the suit, which was brought on by four female police officers. 12:01.283 --> 12:11.397 [SPEAKER_01]: They claimed they had been victims of discriminatory and or sexually harassing behaviors by Diaz, former assistant chief Dan Nelson and the current Lieutenant John O'Neill. 12:12.018 --> 12:30.990 [SPEAKER_01]: Some examples of Diaz's behavior included keeping one of the officers after her shift to have long private conversations, commenting on her clothing at a party, asking for a drive home alone with him on New Year's, that physical advances were made and overall the group of men and leadership made for an uncomfortable working environment. 12:33.310 --> 12:51.337 [SPEAKER_01]: When are you shocked when does it know when when does that just stop they can't stop it they can't stop it Anyway, it was basically a good old boys club right with sexism favoritism and of course harassment 12:52.561 --> 13:05.267 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, now that suit has been settled, and Seattle will be paying, well, technically Seattle taxpayers will be paying for those officers' actions by paying out $2.6 million to the victims. 13:06.187 --> 13:13.451 [SPEAKER_01]: I swear, it's like having police forces full of men is almost like having an exotic pet. 13:14.511 --> 13:26.523 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's the regular cost, which you would expect, you know, tank and food and all that, but when it gets out and bites a neighbor kid or something, and the cost goes to the roof. 13:26.543 --> 13:30.027 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, is it really worth having a pet commoto dragon? 13:31.418 --> 13:32.078 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean? 13:32.279 --> 13:38.082 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know if we can have a sex or dirty or whatever. 13:38.202 --> 13:45.887 [SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe we are trained to handle how dangerous this animal is to the Seattle and surrounding area taxpayers. 13:47.188 --> 13:52.452 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, as usual, I'm sorry your money is being used for this, not because the victims don't deserve it. 13:52.512 --> 13:54.593 [SPEAKER_01]: But wouldn't it be nice if they weren't victims? 13:55.875 --> 14:01.741 [SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of payouts, Oregon will be writing a check soon as well this time for a wrongful conviction. 14:02.422 --> 14:13.713 [SPEAKER_01]: For those who haven't been along for the ride since the beginning or you have the memory capacity of a fly like I do, let me bring you up to speed on Santiago Ventura's case from our episode Fat Theory. 14:14.614 --> 14:18.238 [SPEAKER_01]: Sandi Oregon is a small town about 30 minutes south east of Portland. 14:18.658 --> 14:21.841 [SPEAKER_01]: Sandi is a quaint area known as the Gateway to Mount Hood. 14:21.981 --> 14:25.124 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you've ever gone to the mountain, you've passed through Sandi. 14:25.344 --> 14:29.689 [SPEAKER_01]: And you probably stop to get gas at that Chevron because it's the last gas for miles. 14:30.069 --> 14:34.994 [SPEAKER_01]: And after grabbing breakfast at Joe's Donuts, you've got pulled over at that 20 mile per hour speed trap. 14:35.974 --> 14:44.398 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a warm summer night in 1986 when a group of local field workers decided to turn their camp in Sandy into a birthday party for one of the young girls. 14:44.819 --> 14:48.220 [SPEAKER_01]: This became quite the affair which soon grew into a 100-person party. 14:49.960 --> 14:51.941 [SPEAKER_01]: The alcohol and good times were flowing. 14:52.341 --> 14:57.002 [SPEAKER_01]: Sadly, as all parties full of young drunk men are want to do, an argument ensued. 14:57.463 --> 15:11.848 [SPEAKER_01]: Through the fog of beer and decades of lost memory, the exact stories surrounding the fight are still unknown, but fists and words flew until field worker Ramereo Lopez Fidel got into a sedan with another man, Margarito de Jesus Lopez. 15:12.288 --> 15:15.649 [SPEAKER_01]: They left the party and headed toward the nearby strawberry fields. 15:16.409 --> 15:20.954 [SPEAKER_01]: Six other workers watched those men leave, got into a pickup truck and followed them. 15:21.514 --> 15:24.557 [SPEAKER_01]: In that truck was 18-year-old Santiago Ventura. 15:24.998 --> 15:30.623 [SPEAKER_01]: The truck eventually caught up to Romero Fidel, who was now alone with the car Margarito had been driving. 15:31.384 --> 15:40.949 [SPEAKER_01]: The men in the truck still pissed about the earlier interaction, got out and slashed the car's tires, shot out the windows with a pistol, stole the battery, and set it on fire. 15:41.490 --> 15:46.932 [SPEAKER_01]: That fire prompted calls to 911, which led to the boys in the truck being picked up soon after. 15:47.453 --> 15:50.394 [SPEAKER_01]: The pistol was confiscated, but they were allowed to leave. 15:50.815 --> 15:55.537 [SPEAKER_01]: Even though they were all probably still pretty drunk, but okay, safe driving. 15:55.617 --> 15:56.177 [SPEAKER_00]: It's Oregon. 15:57.458 --> 15:58.779 [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't want to do that paperwork. 16:01.878 --> 16:09.544 [SPEAKER_01]: The following morning after everyone had gone home to sleep it off, a field worker wound up in those same strawberry fields when he made a shocking discovery. 16:09.984 --> 16:14.087 [SPEAKER_01]: Romero was lying in the field, dead from being stabbed in the heart twice. 16:14.728 --> 16:20.132 [SPEAKER_01]: There was documentation of who had been in the area thanks to the police stopping that truck and taking the gun. 16:20.612 --> 16:25.616 [SPEAKER_01]: So the investigation started with that group of men, which led to seven of them being arrested. 16:25.957 --> 16:27.278 [SPEAKER_01]: They were all migrant workers. 16:27.838 --> 16:33.839 [SPEAKER_01]: For interrogation translation, an officer from the nearby city of Canby was brought in as he spoke Spanish. 16:34.339 --> 16:40.841 [SPEAKER_01]: During questioning, it was found Santiago was in possession of a small knife and his behavior seemed off. 16:41.441 --> 16:46.902 [SPEAKER_01]: Those behaviors were Santiago's sweating, not answering questions, and not making eye contact. 16:47.342 --> 16:49.502 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was decided, this was their man. 16:50.103 --> 16:51.943 [SPEAKER_00]: Who needs motive or evidence? 16:52.908 --> 17:00.194 [SPEAKER_01]: While the investigators worked backwards to connect evidence to Santiago, his friends and co-workers couldn't believe he was responsible. 17:00.714 --> 17:06.418 [SPEAKER_01]: In his four years working on the farm, he had never been in any trouble, nor had he shown any signs of aggression. 17:07.379 --> 17:19.348 [SPEAKER_01]: Santiago grew up in San Miguel Dequevas, a village in the province of Waxaca, Mexico, where it wasn't uncommon for young men to leave school and become farm hands, traveling north and south through Oregon and 17:22.370 --> 17:26.351 [SPEAKER_01]: They would then, as Santiago did, send their earnings home to their families. 17:27.012 --> 17:35.395 [SPEAKER_01]: Not so fun fact, the government of Wajaka only provides up to a sixth grade education, which plays a huge part in local children becoming migrant workers. 17:35.895 --> 17:40.976 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not surprising as the tribes of mixed-text go back centuries as farmers and villagers. 17:41.497 --> 17:48.219 [SPEAKER_01]: For those unfamiliar, as I was, mixed-text are a modern indigenous group in Mexico with a rich ancient history. 17:48.779 --> 18:04.714 [SPEAKER_01]: In pre-Hispanic times, they lived in the western region of the state of Oaxaca and part of the states of Puebla and Guerrero, and they were one of the most important groups of Meso-America, which is compromised of basically all of the land between America's southern border and South America. 18:05.755 --> 18:12.357 [SPEAKER_01]: Even without any proof, Santiago was charged and would be headed to court just 61 days after the murder. 18:12.857 --> 18:15.718 [SPEAKER_01]: While preparing for trial, the prosecutor offered a plea deal. 18:16.118 --> 18:23.381 [SPEAKER_01]: Take the guilty plea of manslaughter, and you would only be sentenced to 36 months, not the potential life sentence of murder one. 18:24.001 --> 18:24.701 [SPEAKER_01]: His response? 18:25.181 --> 18:27.482 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't kill anyone, so how can I say I did? 18:28.062 --> 18:30.103 [SPEAKER_01]: The offer was refused and they went to trial. 18:31.043 --> 18:34.904 [SPEAKER_01]: Santiago was given a public defender who did all he could to help his client. 18:35.425 --> 18:40.867 [SPEAKER_01]: Lawyer Michael Curtis worked with the court to make deals but there was one request he could not get granted. 18:41.287 --> 18:44.208 [SPEAKER_01]: An independent forensic report on Santiago's knife. 18:44.748 --> 18:49.070 [SPEAKER_01]: For outside experts, public defenders have to request funding from the judge. 18:49.670 --> 19:02.417 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's say I'm a public defender and I want a different blood spatter analysis done, but my judge doesn't like me or doesn't like my client or literally for any reason, they do not have to grant those requests. 19:02.837 --> 19:12.962 [SPEAKER_01]: The prosecution can have an open checkbook and get whomever they want while public defenders get no money, have too many cases to physically handle, and are not granted the same access to resources. 19:13.522 --> 19:18.824 [SPEAKER_01]: No wonder so many innocent people take plea deals when their public defender offers or suggests it. 19:19.305 --> 19:23.346 [SPEAKER_01]: They know they're wearing worn out flipflops to play one-on-one with LeBron James. 19:24.087 --> 19:28.689 [SPEAKER_01]: The judge in this case may not have granted requests, but he did make jokes about the defendant. 19:29.169 --> 19:35.292 [SPEAKER_01]: For example, when referencing how long it would take for a witness, the prosecution stated, I have a short witness. 19:35.772 --> 19:43.537 [SPEAKER_01]: The judge's response about five foot one, Santiago stood at an average height for an indigenous mix tech at five foot three. 19:44.038 --> 19:51.382 [SPEAKER_01]: The prosecutor responded by demanding the judge apologize if not be disbarred for showing such unprofessionalism and potentially racist bias. 19:52.163 --> 19:53.664 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just kidding, of course. 19:53.724 --> 19:56.486 [SPEAKER_01]: The prosecutor said, less than that. 19:57.662 --> 20:00.986 [SPEAKER_01]: It was decided Santiago would not take the stand in his own trial. 20:01.306 --> 20:07.292 [SPEAKER_01]: Someone who did take the stand was a supposed eyewitness to the murder, Epiphanyo Batista Lopez. 20:07.853 --> 20:17.583 [SPEAKER_01]: After being questioned on the stand and stating he did not see Santiago attack Romero, a short recess was taken in which Epiphanyo went to the prosecution's office. 20:18.043 --> 20:21.585 [SPEAKER_01]: When he returned to the stand, suddenly, so did his memory. 20:22.085 --> 20:28.748 [SPEAKER_01]: He claimed he had, in fact, been in the field when the stabbing took place, and it was actually Santiago who had committed the murder. 20:29.448 --> 20:41.253 [SPEAKER_01]: Another witness was Juan Estrada, who claimed that while in the field destroying the car, he saw Santiago standing over what he called a white bundle, which, of course, must have been the body of Lopez. 20:41.893 --> 20:49.257 [SPEAKER_01]: It was noted that the men who took the stand, who were also mixed tech, were very reserved and seemed almost disengaged from the proceedings. 20:49.737 --> 20:52.638 [SPEAKER_01]: Because they were immigrants, nervousness would be understandable. 20:53.139 --> 21:01.363 [SPEAKER_01]: It started to seem pretty obvious they had come to some sort of deal with the DA, perhaps to not get deported and exchanged for an eyewitness account of the murder. 21:02.123 --> 21:04.726 [SPEAKER_00]: You think they would do that the day. 21:05.086 --> 21:15.076 [SPEAKER_01]: No, they're not shady just to get what they want to close a case after 61 days 61 days is not enough to prepare for a trial let alone complete an investigation. 21:17.798 --> 21:21.299 [SPEAKER_01]: The theory about the deal was helped by the way them and testified. 21:21.520 --> 21:22.840 [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't make eye contact. 21:23.000 --> 21:24.141 [SPEAKER_01]: They had blank stairs. 21:24.341 --> 21:26.181 [SPEAKER_01]: They gave just one word answers. 21:26.702 --> 21:32.084 [SPEAKER_01]: Their discomfort was misinterpreted, leaving one juror to say, they all acted guilty. 21:33.405 --> 21:34.486 [SPEAKER_01]: Done with those witnesses. 21:34.546 --> 21:38.128 [SPEAKER_01]: It was time to go over the blood evidence of which there was none. 21:38.728 --> 21:44.331 [SPEAKER_01]: When a person is stabbed in the heart, the exit wounds would produce a violent spray with massive amounts of blood. 21:44.811 --> 21:56.478 [SPEAKER_01]: When the men were pulled over the night of the murder and questioned the next morning, there was not a single bit of blood found on around or on the clothing of Santiago or any of the men. 21:57.018 --> 22:01.801 [SPEAKER_01]: The knife Santiago had was tested by the state for blood, but there wasn't any. 22:02.561 --> 22:05.623 [SPEAKER_01]: If that was the murder weapon, how was that possible? 22:06.203 --> 22:08.144 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a crazy theory. 22:08.545 --> 22:08.925 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah. 22:08.985 --> 22:11.967 [SPEAKER_00]: That you're going to tell me about it. 22:12.007 --> 22:12.787 [SPEAKER_00]: This I remember. 22:12.907 --> 22:13.868 [SPEAKER_01]: It certainly is. 22:14.968 --> 22:20.612 [SPEAKER_01]: State Deputy Medical Examiner, Dr. Karen Gunson, offered this reasoning, the fat theory. 22:21.272 --> 22:29.481 [SPEAKER_01]: that while Santiago pulled the knife out of Romero, the knife wiped itself clean on his fat or skin or muscle. 22:29.982 --> 22:31.684 [SPEAKER_01]: And it did this twice. 22:32.505 --> 22:41.335 [SPEAKER_01]: This cleaning left not even one microscopic drop or trace of blood on the knife, not on the handle, not in the screws, nothing. 22:41.935 --> 22:51.939 [SPEAKER_01]: While the defense, rightfully, argued this fact in the courtroom, without the financial approval of the judge to get their own examiner, this was the only theory presented to the jury. 22:52.659 --> 23:03.584 [SPEAKER_01]: The 10-day trial came to an end and Santiago awaited his fate, knowing he was not responsible for Ramiro Lopez-Fedell's death and his team knowing that there was zero evidence to pin on him. 23:04.084 --> 23:06.625 [SPEAKER_01]: They all had hopes for the answer of not guilty. 23:07.098 --> 23:09.841 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to hear the testimony of that expert. 23:10.141 --> 23:10.581 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh. 23:10.641 --> 23:15.205 [SPEAKER_00]: What words they said to sell that be for? 23:16.246 --> 23:20.691 [SPEAKER_01]: So of course, not guilty was not the answer that they got. 23:30.830 --> 23:41.895 [SPEAKER_01]: Something that I found in every article and retelling of the moment that the jury read their verdict was that when guilty was read, Santiago's translator turned to him and said, culpable. 23:42.476 --> 23:47.798 [SPEAKER_01]: Santiago's response was something that stayed with and haunted every person in that courtroom that day. 23:48.378 --> 23:53.521 [SPEAKER_01]: He let out what has been described as nearly an animalistic whale of pain and sorrow. 23:54.041 --> 23:56.762 [SPEAKER_01]: His scream tore through the room as his body flung 23:58.893 --> 24:02.334 [SPEAKER_01]: Not long after that, some of the jurors began communicating with one another. 24:02.794 --> 24:10.215 [SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps it was Santiago's howl at the verdict or just their intuition, but eventually three of them decided they had made the wrong decision. 24:10.815 --> 24:17.357 [SPEAKER_01]: One juror, Elizabeth Linder, recounted the story of the trial to her friend and local activist, Donna Slapek. 24:17.817 --> 24:24.358 [SPEAKER_01]: Donna offered to do whatever she could to help Santiago, which resulted in her teaching him English as he awaited sentencing. 24:25.468 --> 24:31.291 [SPEAKER_01]: As the weeks went on and his English improved, Santiago used his new skill to express his innocence. 24:31.671 --> 24:35.193 [SPEAKER_01]: He continued to do so even when given a sentence of life and prison. 24:35.754 --> 24:39.436 [SPEAKER_01]: Donna then got to work doing whatever was needed to overturn the verdict. 24:39.876 --> 24:42.798 [SPEAKER_01]: This started with a procedural appeal, which was denied. 24:43.198 --> 24:50.642 [SPEAKER_01]: She then learned about the jurors who felt they had been wrong and wished they could change their stance, but that's a moot point once the trial is ended. 24:51.622 --> 24:54.944 [SPEAKER_01]: Donna then began working on a post-conviction relief petition. 24:55.504 --> 25:01.708 [SPEAKER_01]: She knew she would need to find something substantial to base this petition on as they have a 99% denial rate. 25:02.228 --> 25:14.935 [SPEAKER_01]: While investigating the district attorney's case, looking for ways to counter what little evidence there was, she found two anthropologists at Reed College who were experts in Ms. Tech culture, and what she learned would change everything. 25:15.515 --> 25:21.956 [SPEAKER_01]: Mixed text do not speak Spanish, and what language did the translators speak throughout the entire legal process? 25:22.796 --> 25:23.296 [SPEAKER_01]: Spanish. 25:24.157 --> 25:31.618 [SPEAKER_01]: He could probably understand enough to chat, but in no way should it have been the language used to go through trial to try to save his life. 25:32.238 --> 25:37.699 [SPEAKER_01]: Spanish is an India European language, while mixed tech is an indigenous Mesoamerican language. 25:38.459 --> 25:40.339 [SPEAKER_01]: It really would be like bringing in an 25:44.620 --> 25:52.247 [SPEAKER_01]: From the first interrogation all the way through the trial, Santiago had never been provided a translator who spoke his native language. 25:52.968 --> 25:56.331 [SPEAKER_01]: Donna worked tirelessly on Santiago's case for over a year. 25:56.731 --> 26:00.335 [SPEAKER_01]: She then brought in support from local activists, leaders, and journalists. 26:00.795 --> 26:06.280 [SPEAKER_01]: This was long before the Oregon Innocence Project was founded in 2011, but this strategy worked. 26:06.481 --> 26:09.523 [SPEAKER_01]: And Santiago's story landed on the front page of the Oregonian. 26:10.164 --> 26:13.966 [SPEAKER_01]: pointing out how flawed the case was, the story brought in even more supporters. 26:14.467 --> 26:30.016 [SPEAKER_01]: It didn't help that with the, oh, it didn't help that with more outcry came more facts, which were even more damning, like how the first officer's skipper was asked about the lack of appropriate translation and he said, they go hand in hand in Mexican country down there. 26:31.623 --> 26:37.785 [SPEAKER_01]: Regarding Santiago's suspicious behavior during those initial interviews, that was attributed to his culture. 26:38.145 --> 26:39.465 [SPEAKER_01]: He was an acting guilty. 26:39.745 --> 26:44.847 [SPEAKER_01]: It was actually culturally significant for mixed texts to never look elders in the eyes. 26:45.707 --> 26:49.228 [SPEAKER_01]: All of the local attention led to Santiago's story making national news. 26:49.848 --> 26:54.330 [SPEAKER_01]: That brought in financial support, which allowed for Donna to make the case her life's work. 26:54.790 --> 27:01.132 [SPEAKER_01]: Santiago was still only about 19 or 20 years old at the time, so Donna became a stand-in mother of sorts. 27:01.853 --> 27:05.294 [SPEAKER_01]: Eventually, Donna secured a criminal litigator named Paul Demoons. 27:05.734 --> 27:08.935 [SPEAKER_01]: He was there when the DA offered Santiago a different plea deal. 27:13.277 --> 27:14.799 [SPEAKER_01]: Santiago refused. 27:15.259 --> 27:18.422 [SPEAKER_01]: He would not say that he was guilty even if it meant his freedom. 27:18.922 --> 27:22.405 [SPEAKER_01]: That was significant to Paul, and he agreed to work on the case pro bono. 27:23.679 --> 27:28.103 [SPEAKER_01]: The human and financial support led to the acquisition of an expert who examined the knife. 27:28.543 --> 27:33.128 [SPEAKER_01]: They concluded the idea of the fat theory was beyond ridiculous. 27:33.608 --> 27:38.152 [SPEAKER_01]: The eyewitnesses, epiphonial and one, were interviewed and immediately recanted. 27:38.592 --> 27:44.218 [SPEAKER_01]: They said they had been forced by the police and the DA to say that they had seen Santiago commit the murder. 27:44.738 --> 27:49.222 [SPEAKER_01]: These men were also only offered Spanish translators, even though they spoke mistext. 27:50.277 --> 27:52.579 [SPEAKER_01]: Paul eventually struck eyewitness gold. 27:52.959 --> 27:57.963 [SPEAKER_01]: Pedro Guzman was in the second car that had been involved in the altercation that night in the field. 27:58.424 --> 28:08.352 [SPEAKER_01]: When he was questioned by Santiago's legal team, he claimed a man named Herminio Luna Hernandez, exited a second vehicle and chased Romero into the field. 28:08.792 --> 28:16.078 [SPEAKER_01]: Pedro lost sight of the men as they ran into the dark, but Herminio did return to the car and he said, I killed him. 28:16.698 --> 28:22.205 [SPEAKER_01]: The morning after the murder hermeneo had fled the camp, leaving behind his wife in laws and child. 28:22.886 --> 28:27.691 [SPEAKER_01]: This new evidence was presented to the district attorney, but they refused to overturn the case. 28:27.992 --> 28:30.575 [SPEAKER_01]: They only agreed to reopen the investigation. 28:31.317 --> 28:33.339 [SPEAKER_01]: That was a start, but not enough for Donna. 28:33.699 --> 28:36.701 [SPEAKER_01]: She was still doing interviews with any news outlet that would have her. 28:37.182 --> 28:41.485 [SPEAKER_01]: After the newspapers, magazines, and news programs, there was a jackpot. 28:41.846 --> 28:50.773 [SPEAKER_01]: Donna was invited to the Oprah Winfrey Show, where she devoted an episode to Santiago's case, interviewing jury members, and Santiago from prison. 28:51.674 --> 28:59.400 [SPEAKER_01]: While in prison, Santiago took advantage of several programs, he had become fluent in English, earned his GED, and was taking college courses. 28:59.914 --> 29:04.338 [SPEAKER_01]: He had taken solace in philosophy, playing guitar, singing, and writing poetry. 29:04.838 --> 29:09.842 [SPEAKER_01]: As a prisoner, he was, just as he had been as a citizen, a model of good behavior. 29:10.683 --> 29:16.208 [SPEAKER_01]: Now that the public was aware of and supporting his case, the room was packed when Santiago's appeal was heard. 29:16.688 --> 29:20.290 [SPEAKER_01]: The defense presented the case tearing apart the original prosecution. 29:20.791 --> 29:24.273 [SPEAKER_01]: The team pointed out Santiago was never offered to take the stand. 29:24.653 --> 29:28.295 [SPEAKER_01]: The judge from the first case testified to the weakness of the state's case. 29:28.775 --> 29:33.558 [SPEAKER_01]: The bloodless knife and translator that didn't speak his language were just the cherries on top. 29:34.295 --> 29:38.319 [SPEAKER_01]: They felt good about the real evidence they had, but this wasn't a trial. 29:38.419 --> 29:42.263 [SPEAKER_01]: This was a petition to appeal, which relied on a judge's ruling. 29:42.764 --> 29:45.487 [SPEAKER_01]: So for five months, they awaited the decision. 29:46.568 --> 29:49.091 [SPEAKER_01]: The petition was presented in August 1990. 29:49.551 --> 29:54.937 [SPEAKER_01]: On January 4, 1991, the appeal was granted, and his verdict was overturned. 29:55.425 --> 30:03.553 [SPEAKER_01]: This meant the judge found it unjust that in the first trial there were no expert testimonies and Santiago was not given his right to testify. 30:04.053 --> 30:06.115 [SPEAKER_01]: Now it was up to the DA to make a decision. 30:06.495 --> 30:10.239 [SPEAKER_01]: They could close the case altogether or drop the charges against Santiago. 30:10.739 --> 30:17.205 [SPEAKER_01]: Thankfully, the governor at the time issued a temporary pardon to block any prosecutions attempt to appeal the judge's decision. 30:18.026 --> 30:28.817 [SPEAKER_01]: In what was not a huge surprise, the DA didn't accept this as an opportunity to write their wrongs, apologize, and seek out the person who was witnessed taking the life of Ramira Lopez. 30:29.437 --> 30:31.359 [SPEAKER_01]: The DA instead made this statement. 30:32.140 --> 30:35.743 [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone seems to forget a jury convicted Mr. Ventura. 30:36.104 --> 30:38.686 [SPEAKER_01]: The court didn't send it back because he wasn't guilty. 30:39.067 --> 30:41.349 [SPEAKER_01]: It was because of his attorney's competence. 30:43.047 --> 30:45.268 [SPEAKER_01]: Only five days later, Santiago was free. 30:45.488 --> 30:48.310 [SPEAKER_01]: He walked out of prison and was met by Donna who picked him up. 30:48.830 --> 30:53.973 [SPEAKER_01]: The threat of, if we find any new evidence, we can still retry you, remained hanging over his head. 30:54.534 --> 30:56.655 [SPEAKER_01]: Santiago became a bit of a celebrity. 30:56.935 --> 31:01.738 [SPEAKER_01]: He was followed by cameras, hugged by supporters, and even sold his story for movie rights. 31:02.438 --> 31:14.934 [SPEAKER_01]: One would think being in your early 20s in a different country than your own with the trauma of a wrong conviction, you would run home to your family and spend the rest of your life recovering from five years being spent unjustly imprisoned. 31:15.434 --> 31:17.016 [SPEAKER_01]: That was not Santiago's plan. 31:17.717 --> 31:22.479 [SPEAKER_01]: He did go home to his mother at one point, but everything, especially himself, had changed. 31:22.999 --> 31:25.760 [SPEAKER_01]: His life would no longer be about helping on the farm. 31:26.220 --> 31:32.223 [SPEAKER_01]: He was sort of famous, and the elites of the local political world wanted him around for fundraising and attention. 31:32.923 --> 31:38.285 [SPEAKER_01]: Santiago had become a custom to solitude and the swarm of people around him was overwhelming at times. 31:38.845 --> 31:45.106 [SPEAKER_01]: Within weeks of being freed, Santiago was at the Oregon State Senate supporting a bill to help convicts get new trials. 31:45.907 --> 31:49.708 [SPEAKER_01]: Santiago decided to stay in Portland, living with Donna and her husband. 31:50.088 --> 31:58.290 [SPEAKER_01]: He was offered a full scholarship from the University of Portland, which he took advantage of, graduating with a bachelor's degree in social work and political science. 31:58.770 --> 32:04.152 [SPEAKER_01]: Since she started working on this case, Donna Selpak has become one of the foremost activists in Oregon. 32:04.952 --> 32:16.676 [SPEAKER_01]: Santiago struggled to find his place in life before deciding he wanted to be in control of his narrative, with his degree in hand, his path became clear, to turn his horrific experience into a positive one that can help others. 32:17.357 --> 32:26.560 [SPEAKER_01]: He presented to the Oregon Supreme Court, leading to a legal change in how translators are processed and certified, and the requirements of matching interpreters to the language of the defendant. 32:27.320 --> 32:35.586 [SPEAKER_01]: pretty beyond upsetting that that idea would need to be presented to the Supreme Court, and it wasn't just an automatic thing. 32:36.767 --> 32:43.172 [SPEAKER_01]: Santiago spent some time working for the California rural legal assistance group in Fresno before returning back to Portland. 32:43.672 --> 32:50.417 [SPEAKER_01]: He continues to proudly serve his community by partnering with the Oregon Law Center working exclusively with indigenous immigrants. 32:51.037 --> 32:51.958 [SPEAKER_01]: When speaking about his 32:54.940 --> 32:57.983 [SPEAKER_01]: Santiago said, quote, it's hard to say I'm not angry. 32:58.204 --> 33:03.269 [SPEAKER_01]: I lost part of my life, but then I think about how there's nothing I can do now to get even. 33:03.789 --> 33:12.679 [SPEAKER_01]: All I can do is try to fight so the same thing doesn't happen to someone else, and to remind people that my experience affected someone's life, that this was another human. 33:13.619 --> 33:24.269 [SPEAKER_01]: Because of the passion and support of people like Donna, this case was overturned, leading to the freedom of an innocent man who has gone on to do nothing but work to change laws to continue to protect the innocent. 33:24.770 --> 33:35.981 [SPEAKER_01]: If you wish to support other lawyers who work tirelessly to do the same, please check out the Oregon Innocence Project at OregonInnocence.org or innocenceproject.org to find your state. 33:36.819 --> 33:41.321 [SPEAKER_01]: The update doesn't revolve around Herminio Luna Hernandez being found in question. 33:41.701 --> 33:45.002 [SPEAKER_01]: It also isn't about Romero's killer being found in Brought to Justice. 33:45.543 --> 33:50.184 [SPEAKER_01]: It's now been 40 years since that murder and Santiago's wrongful conviction. 33:50.745 --> 33:56.347 [SPEAKER_01]: In 2023, a law was passed in Oregon that allowed for the wrongful conviction compensation. 33:56.927 --> 34:07.015 [SPEAKER_01]: This law allows for a person who is found to be wrongfully convicted to sue for $65,000 per year with $25,000 a year for each year of parole. 34:07.795 --> 34:10.477 [SPEAKER_01]: Santiago sued the state based off of this new law. 34:10.918 --> 34:19.744 [SPEAKER_01]: The state still trying to protect their asses denied paying Santiago saying that he wasn't falsely imprisoned or found guilty without evidence. 34:20.925 --> 34:23.589 [SPEAKER_01]: Once again, Santiago would have to go to trial. 34:24.390 --> 34:29.196 [SPEAKER_01]: Thankfully, the state finally settled in March of this year right before they had to go to trial. 34:29.676 --> 34:34.382 [SPEAKER_01]: They would be paying for Santiago's years in prison and attorney fees for a total of 34:39.682 --> 34:44.166 [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to be clear that I have zero issue with Santiago receiving that money. 34:44.266 --> 34:46.248 [SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, it really doesn't seem like enough. 34:46.528 --> 34:46.889 [SPEAKER_01]: It never. 34:46.929 --> 34:47.609 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not enough. 34:47.629 --> 34:48.090 [SPEAKER_01]: It's never. 34:48.150 --> 34:48.770 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not enough. 34:48.830 --> 34:54.756 [SPEAKER_00]: I did that calculation yesterday for one of our true crime Tuesday cases where the guy got almost too long. 34:54.776 --> 35:00.581 [SPEAKER_00]: I said, I'm in it with something like, it was either 45 or $65,000 a year or something like that. 35:00.661 --> 35:01.482 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it was 65, right? 35:01.502 --> 35:02.683 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which had this. 35:02.723 --> 35:04.685 [SPEAKER_00]: He got the whatever the maximum was at the time. 35:04.865 --> 35:12.860 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is now like a barely decent paying job that's kind of not a survivable job or like for an annual pay. 35:13.350 --> 35:17.151 [SPEAKER_01]: And I also want it higher because I want the DA to be scared of it. 35:17.351 --> 35:18.372 [SPEAKER_00]: It should be punishing. 35:18.472 --> 35:22.173 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if it's a consequence, you're going, oh, that fine is a pain in the ass. 35:22.253 --> 35:23.574 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, 65 that whatever. 35:24.754 --> 35:28.976 [SPEAKER_01]: If you say, I don't know, half a million per year, maybe. 35:28.996 --> 35:30.696 [SPEAKER_01]: Or you won't rush to trial. 35:30.716 --> 35:33.797 [SPEAKER_00]: Expansion of your abilities is of whatever you have. 35:33.817 --> 35:37.959 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're connected to someone that has to do a payout, maybe you have to pay it. 35:38.973 --> 35:56.511 [SPEAKER_01]: what I do take issue with is tax dollars that could be used to feed children pay teachers more I don't know even pave some roads that money is being used because some cops couldn't be bothered to do a proper investigation and the ego of the prosecutors wouldn't let them drop it. 35:57.312 --> 36:06.594 [SPEAKER_01]: I think, so here's another suggestion, besides it being a really high fee, maybe the money for the settlements should be garnished by the parties involved. 36:07.274 --> 36:16.216 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're the DA and you're the cop that fudged up from the start, it's coming out of your paycheck. 36:16.316 --> 36:18.717 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, a little scoop every month. 36:18.777 --> 36:25.438 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, then maybe we're not rushing to arrest people or not arrest people or not solve cases. 36:27.266 --> 36:38.176 [SPEAKER_01]: So the DA statement about this finally coming to an end is, quote, we are pleased that this matter, which involved tragic circumstances from decades ago, is finally coming to an end. 36:39.577 --> 36:40.438 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, are you? 36:40.458 --> 36:42.239 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, they're tired of being in trouble. 36:43.190 --> 36:46.611 [SPEAKER_01]: I did have the pleasure of speaking with Santiago on the phone many years ago. 36:46.631 --> 36:47.251 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's right. 36:47.331 --> 36:50.552 [SPEAKER_01]: It was not long after the episode came out when he emailed us. 36:51.352 --> 36:59.135 [SPEAKER_01]: We chatted, he was really just, I think, making sure we were telling his story for good reason and that we weren't twisting any information. 36:59.615 --> 37:07.417 [SPEAKER_01]: I was super nervous to talk to him because it was such an early episode and I was really worried that I had upset him or gotten information wrong. 37:07.437 --> 37:09.358 [SPEAKER_01]: But he was just very kind and just kind of... 37:10.438 --> 37:11.158 [SPEAKER_01]: Keeping tabs. 37:11.198 --> 37:14.880 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure he has a Google alert on and he was like, okay, why are you guys talking about me? 37:14.940 --> 37:17.101 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to misrepresent Santiago. 37:17.241 --> 37:17.941 [SPEAKER_01]: Certainly not. 37:18.201 --> 37:18.441 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 37:18.461 --> 37:18.521 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 37:18.661 --> 37:23.283 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm glad he got that money and, you know, he's going to do good things with it. 37:23.663 --> 37:24.984 [SPEAKER_01]: Or just maybe have some peace. 37:25.684 --> 37:30.846 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he just buys a an isolated home somewhere and doesn't have to deal with people. 37:31.066 --> 37:36.588 [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever you want to do with that money, Santiago, I hope it helps make your life a little better. 37:38.475 --> 37:44.023 [SPEAKER_01]: A while back, I mentioned in an update that I was going to be volunteering for my second year at Camp Erin. 37:44.103 --> 37:53.997 [SPEAKER_01]: If you miss that one, the just is that it's a weekend camp for kids aged 6 to 17 who have experienced a meaningful loss, usually a parent, a sibling or a caregiver. 37:54.918 --> 37:57.520 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, year two was just as amazing. 37:57.680 --> 38:01.524 [SPEAKER_01]: It didn't rain once, which was 100% opposite of my first year. 38:02.064 --> 38:05.347 [SPEAKER_01]: I worked with the lions last year, which was ages 6 to 8. 38:05.908 --> 38:14.135 [SPEAKER_01]: In this year, I was very apprehensive as I was assigned to the zebra's, which are 15 to 17 year olds, and teenagers scare me. 38:15.108 --> 38:43.612 [SPEAKER_01]: But it went better than I thought, mostly because the camp is so well organized, it is so fun, it's so fast-paced, and even though it's a group of teenagers, you know, you're talking at the end of camp about growth and comfort zones and that you can be in your comfort zone, but around that is your growth zone, so your comfort zone can expand, and I told the group that I was very nervous about working with teenagers, but my comfort zone had expanded and one of them looked at me in the set. 38:44.234 --> 38:44.774 [SPEAKER_01]: What did you think? 38:44.794 --> 38:49.196 [SPEAKER_01]: We were just going to bully you all weekend and I just laughed and said, yeah, I did. 38:49.216 --> 39:05.522 [SPEAKER_01]: Because your teenagers, but they were amazing and watching them comfort each other, watching even though they're still boys becoming young men and feeling comfortable crying with people that they've just met to share these bonding experiences. 39:06.242 --> 39:07.383 [SPEAKER_00]: It was really beautiful. 39:08.246 --> 39:26.809 [SPEAKER_01]: one of the many highlights for me was when I was stopped by one of the staff members who asked me if I had a podcast and I said yes and she told me that she had met a volunteer Kristen who said that she was there because she had heard about it on the show and the staff member wanted to tell me in person because she was so excited. 39:27.870 --> 39:28.831 [SPEAKER_01]: everyone was so excited. 39:28.851 --> 39:34.233 [SPEAKER_01]: They were like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that someone just showed up because it is hard to get volunteers. 39:34.273 --> 39:35.714 [SPEAKER_01]: Not everyone knows about the camp. 39:36.074 --> 39:44.919 [SPEAKER_01]: When you say, I'm going to a grief camp for the weekend, it maybe sounds like a bummer, but as I will and now Kristen can tell you, it's not a bummer at all. 39:45.199 --> 39:52.382 [SPEAKER_01]: It's embracing that grief is there and proving that you can live with it around you. 39:52.663 --> 39:53.223 [SPEAKER_00]: Good grief. 39:53.840 --> 39:54.481 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. 39:54.561 --> 39:55.282 [SPEAKER_01]: Good grief. 39:55.563 --> 39:59.209 [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to give a huge thank you to Kristen, you know who you are. 39:59.249 --> 40:00.772 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for coming to camp. 40:01.272 --> 40:05.379 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope you had a wonderful time and I really hope we get to meet each other next year. 40:06.219 --> 40:07.020 [SPEAKER_01]: So here's the deal. 40:07.160 --> 40:10.702 [SPEAKER_01]: I am determined to get more support to camp Erin. 40:11.062 --> 40:18.286 [SPEAKER_01]: The more adults we have all entering, the more coverage we have for the kids, which also could mean that more kids can be helped in a single year. 40:18.306 --> 40:28.832 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a very long waiting list, unfortunately, and each child can only come once as a child, and then possibly a second time when they are a teenager. 40:29.592 --> 40:36.815 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not something you get to attend every year, so the list is really long and the more kids we can help, the more kids we can help. 40:37.275 --> 40:46.139 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I am working with the wonderful folks with Camp Aeron to put together an informal informational meeting sometime probably this fall. 40:46.919 --> 40:54.542 [SPEAKER_01]: I know it can be really overwhelming to just sign up for something, so we want to show pictures and answer questions before we fully convert you. 40:55.127 --> 41:00.431 [SPEAKER_01]: For example, I'm dragging my mom's bunkow group into it, and they'll probably be Dave volunteers. 41:00.471 --> 41:06.055 [SPEAKER_01]: They all used to work in schools, and I can just see them working now of getting people registered or handing things out. 41:06.656 --> 41:17.624 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you have any interest or maybe you have people in your life that you think this would be a good fit for any adults, or especially if you have unprocessed grief, or you're dealing with grief now, 41:18.745 --> 41:35.405 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just magical for everybody, so you can look up camp errand and put in your city and it'll find you the closest one there across the country you can also send us an email gmail us murder and the rain at gmail.com and I'll make sure to put you on the list for that meeting. 41:35.865 --> 41:41.271 [SPEAKER_01]: We just want to spread the word because it not only helps all these kids, but selfishly, it really fills your own cup. 41:41.351 --> 41:47.839 [SPEAKER_01]: I was dealing with some personal grief both weekends that I've done this and it just really helps because these kids show you. 41:48.139 --> 41:50.442 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that can exist and so can life. 41:51.614 --> 42:06.459 [SPEAKER_01]: Camp Erin is based on an actual girl Erin who had cancer and her story is part of camp and it really highlights that you can have grief and laws but really beautiful things can come from it. 42:07.439 --> 42:14.204 [SPEAKER_01]: and her wish was that there would be something in place for her sisters after she died to make sure they were okay. 42:15.024 --> 42:28.413 [SPEAKER_01]: And a member of the Mariners, the baseball team, heard about this and heard about Erin's story and helped create a foundation that then created camparine and now it's across the country and I think also in Canada. 42:28.533 --> 42:30.594 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's pretty amazing. 42:34.328 --> 42:48.092 [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of tried to describe it to people as imagine you're doing the mileage of Disneyland, but you're mostly in nature like kind of camping and you're surrounded by kids like Disneyland, but not your own. 42:49.893 --> 42:56.875 [SPEAKER_01]: But everyone's cool because there's grief around so nothing is taken too seriously because that's life. 42:57.373 --> 43:18.751 [SPEAKER_00]: I would think that it would increase the likelihood of people becoming friends because they're all coming from a similar painful thing I would think there would be a lot of opportunity for good relationships to grow out of that that is the number one goal truly for the for the for the campers to know each other and go on a lot of their stories and up being something along the lines of 43:19.472 --> 43:29.123 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm usually the weird kid that doesn't have a dad, or I don't ever talk about this around my friends, and it was so nice to come somewhere where I'm not the weird kid. 43:29.404 --> 43:31.366 [SPEAKER_01]: That's so cool that you got involved in that. 43:31.707 --> 43:35.031 [SPEAKER_00]: And it happened the way that you're trying to do it, where someone asks you. 43:35.431 --> 43:45.993 [SPEAKER_01]: I just know what I get from it and I see what these kids get from it and I just I have enough people in my life that I know that this would fill their cup and they would be so great to work with these kids. 43:46.073 --> 43:48.773 [SPEAKER_00]: So I could really see it being a lifetime thing for you. 43:49.353 --> 43:49.974 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think so. 43:49.994 --> 43:51.174 [SPEAKER_00]: It really seems to work for you. 43:51.274 --> 43:51.834 [SPEAKER_00]: It really does. 43:53.154 --> 43:56.635 [SPEAKER_01]: Now we're on to Josh's library. 43:59.655 --> 44:00.415 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you like that version? 44:01.756 --> 44:01.956 [SPEAKER_00]: Good. 44:02.636 --> 44:03.616 [SPEAKER_00]: Josh, what you've been reading? 44:04.150 --> 44:13.819 [SPEAKER_00]: since last you entered my corner, I have read reread actually, the dark half by Stephen King, which I believe is the first Stephen King book I have read. 44:14.259 --> 44:14.400 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh! 44:14.580 --> 44:15.821 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the fun fact, that's it. 44:15.881 --> 44:17.642 [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of his best, I love it. 44:18.163 --> 44:22.227 [SPEAKER_00]: I've always had a great connection to it because of the movie that was made, but I love that one. 44:22.847 --> 44:25.490 [SPEAKER_00]: I watched that at a very young age and it really stuck with me. 44:25.570 --> 44:27.371 [SPEAKER_01]: It's fun, it's a hot streamer's crossover. 44:28.132 --> 44:28.692 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god. 44:28.812 --> 44:29.692 [SPEAKER_01]: Read the dark half. 44:29.932 --> 44:30.793 [SPEAKER_01]: Watch the dark half. 44:31.133 --> 44:31.553 [SPEAKER_00]: We did. 44:31.973 --> 44:33.213 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah. 44:33.293 --> 44:34.013 [SPEAKER_00]: We did one. 44:34.193 --> 44:35.233 [SPEAKER_00]: I did the other. 44:36.614 --> 44:48.136 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just about done another reread of who goes there by John W. Campbell, which is the novella that the thing from another world and John Carpenter's the thing are based on. 44:49.356 --> 44:53.357 [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of my favorite short pieces of fiction. 44:53.397 --> 44:54.397 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just incredible. 44:54.737 --> 44:55.357 [SPEAKER_00]: It's perfect. 44:55.778 --> 44:56.118 [SPEAKER_00]: Read it. 44:56.158 --> 44:57.378 [SPEAKER_00]: It takes about two hours. 44:59.059 --> 44:59.939 [SPEAKER_01]: Or five to eight. 45:00.160 --> 45:00.560 [SPEAKER_01]: I am. 45:01.981 --> 45:18.033 [SPEAKER_00]: I also read Strong Female Character by Fern Brady, who's a Taskmaster contestant, series 14, our favorite show Taskmaster, and that was a really beautiful memoir biography, and she's a stand-up comedian, so it's very funny and very frank about. 45:18.753 --> 45:27.020 [SPEAKER_00]: autism, mental health issues, abuse, sex, sex work, her career, her family problems. 45:27.060 --> 45:31.944 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really a really hilarious and we'll just open. 45:31.964 --> 45:35.447 [SPEAKER_00]: She's very, very open about what has gone on in her life. 45:35.507 --> 45:36.208 [SPEAKER_01]: I do love her. 45:36.448 --> 45:37.629 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a heck of a read. 45:38.170 --> 45:44.055 [SPEAKER_00]: She said one of my favorite things ever on Taskmaster, which was calling a mannequin, a pretend man. 45:44.914 --> 45:53.900 [SPEAKER_00]: And I still think that every time I see or think of a mannequin, I also read the fog by James Herbert, this is a 50th anniversary edition. 45:54.280 --> 45:56.562 [SPEAKER_00]: It came out 51 years ago. 45:56.962 --> 45:58.543 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it came out in 1975. 45:59.263 --> 46:14.273 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, this is a book that is not my favorite thing I've ever read, but if you like stories about people being driven insane by sentient fog banks in England, it's just it's right up your alley. 46:15.468 --> 46:16.268 [SPEAKER_01]: very specific. 46:16.568 --> 46:17.628 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's very violent. 46:17.669 --> 46:23.850 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little dry and he has another book that I read, which is why I read the fog called the rats. 46:24.090 --> 46:25.410 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the one I recommend. 46:25.430 --> 46:26.671 [SPEAKER_00]: I read that a couple years ago. 46:27.111 --> 46:29.491 [SPEAKER_00]: That one is hot stuff. 46:30.111 --> 46:30.951 [SPEAKER_00]: It's nasty. 46:31.292 --> 46:37.133 [SPEAKER_00]: The dogs are the size, I'm sorry, the rats are the size of small dogs and they're eating, they're eating the people. 46:37.153 --> 46:37.213 [SPEAKER_00]: No! 46:38.373 --> 46:40.274 [SPEAKER_00]: So don't read the fog as much as the rats. 46:41.435 --> 46:48.439 [SPEAKER_00]: And then speaking of the rats, last week I read Stuart little for the first time in 40 years. 46:49.179 --> 46:49.739 [SPEAKER_00]: How is that? 46:50.079 --> 46:51.140 [SPEAKER_00]: It was beautiful. 46:51.260 --> 46:54.482 [SPEAKER_00]: I loved it so much and I forgot what it was about. 46:55.452 --> 46:55.772 [SPEAKER_00]: really. 46:56.012 --> 46:58.994 [SPEAKER_00]: And it is just that he is different. 46:59.814 --> 47:00.954 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's tiny. 47:01.855 --> 47:03.615 [SPEAKER_00]: And he never lets that dissuade him. 47:04.316 --> 47:08.017 [SPEAKER_00]: He's he's brave and confident and adventurous. 47:08.517 --> 47:09.938 [SPEAKER_00]: Even though he looks like a little mouse. 47:10.278 --> 47:11.059 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what they say to you. 47:11.079 --> 47:12.339 [SPEAKER_00]: They never say that he isn't mouse. 47:12.679 --> 47:14.100 [SPEAKER_00]: Just that he really looks like a mouse. 47:14.780 --> 47:15.040 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 47:15.060 --> 47:19.383 [SPEAKER_00]: But it was it was beautiful and just just so so perfectly written. 47:20.003 --> 47:20.203 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 47:20.844 --> 47:22.344 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's a reason it's a classic. 47:22.444 --> 47:26.147 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was the the copy of the book is the one that my dad used to read to me when I was a kid. 47:27.527 --> 47:29.088 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's the cutest. 47:29.108 --> 47:29.669 [SPEAKER_00]: This cute. 47:29.689 --> 47:31.730 [SPEAKER_00]: I also have the copy of the Hobbit he would read to me. 47:32.810 --> 47:34.411 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, she'd make him read to you. 47:35.112 --> 47:36.713 [SPEAKER_00]: I should read to him. 47:38.353 --> 47:39.554 [SPEAKER_00]: The library is closed. 47:40.054 --> 47:40.675 [SPEAKER_00]: Please get out. 47:42.388 --> 47:45.372 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the end of Josh's library. 47:45.592 --> 47:51.661 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll do a real one. 47:52.141 --> 47:55.145 [SPEAKER_01]: Josh's library corner. 47:55.165 --> 47:59.791 [SPEAKER_01]: Now it's time for hot streamers. 48:14.083 --> 48:24.841 [SPEAKER_01]: We wanted to wait until the series was finalized so that we knew all the seasons were out, we weren't waiting all these years, and we finally started watching Hacks, which is an incredible comedy. 48:24.961 --> 48:26.344 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we're already on season four. 48:26.905 --> 48:28.247 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, I don't want to talk about it. 48:28.514 --> 48:30.254 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's that good though. 48:30.274 --> 48:31.355 [SPEAKER_00]: We can't stop watching it. 48:31.375 --> 48:36.276 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not bingers and we've we've run through all the whole thing in two weeks. 48:36.316 --> 48:37.176 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we've engine. 48:37.456 --> 48:38.496 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's really great. 48:38.556 --> 48:39.597 [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the funniest. 48:39.737 --> 48:40.637 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the funniest show. 48:41.137 --> 48:41.977 [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty damn fun. 48:41.997 --> 48:42.257 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 48:43.058 --> 48:44.838 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you want to know what it's like to hang out with me. 48:44.878 --> 48:50.179 [SPEAKER_01]: Just watch Ava describe anything about full stop. 48:50.259 --> 48:51.059 [SPEAKER_00]: Just anything. 48:51.520 --> 48:52.640 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, very much you. 48:53.660 --> 49:01.966 [SPEAKER_00]: I end up just pointing it you a lot while we're watching the show because it's so there's so many things that are read just it's it's yeah. 49:02.467 --> 49:09.312 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to know what it's like to live my life watch hacks just the the Eva yeah. 49:10.702 --> 49:22.965 [SPEAKER_01]: brought to you by the same folks that did worst X ever and worst roommate ever we've been watching worst neighbor ever which is part of that series where they interviewed the people involved and then they do animated recreations. 49:23.385 --> 49:24.525 [SPEAKER_00]: Those have all been really great. 49:24.545 --> 49:25.906 [SPEAKER_01]: They're just so fascinating. 49:25.926 --> 49:26.586 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 49:26.766 --> 49:34.728 [SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate that it's not about protecting the people that we're committing the acts, but it's the background and it kind of explains. 49:36.048 --> 49:41.653 [SPEAKER_01]: because you usually just hear about the end and these stories are all about kind of boiling the frog in the water. 49:42.194 --> 49:45.757 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you watch that water come to a boil instead of just getting that. 49:46.007 --> 49:52.569 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot like a series of the perfect neighbor that's feature-length documentary where they break it all down. 49:52.609 --> 49:55.530 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's not all on body cam and surveillance like someone was. 49:56.251 --> 50:02.273 [SPEAKER_01]: And speaking of documentary, I watched maternal instinct, which is a horrible case. 50:02.493 --> 50:06.154 [SPEAKER_01]: And all I've heard is that the documentary went pretty light on the details. 50:07.295 --> 50:11.676 [SPEAKER_01]: It's about a woman wanting to have a baby but not being pregnant. 50:11.716 --> 50:12.697 [SPEAKER_01]: So you know how that goes. 50:14.037 --> 50:18.161 [SPEAKER_01]: And it took us a while, but we finally got around to watching Good Boy. 50:19.162 --> 50:19.963 [SPEAKER_00]: Which was lovely. 50:20.023 --> 50:20.884 [SPEAKER_01]: It was so good. 50:20.944 --> 50:21.724 [SPEAKER_00]: And spooky. 50:21.744 --> 50:24.126 [SPEAKER_00]: And that dog is a star. 50:24.407 --> 50:24.727 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 50:25.428 --> 50:27.930 [SPEAKER_00]: I love, I love them. 50:28.232 --> 50:37.394 [SPEAKER_01]: It's about a dog dealing with that stuff yeah, and he's a good boy, and it's all about the dog and Things indie and don't worry guys. 50:37.814 --> 50:38.594 [SPEAKER_01]: It's all about the dog. 50:38.634 --> 50:39.715 [SPEAKER_01]: So nothing gonna happen. 50:39.795 --> 50:43.475 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, If it was called bad boy, he might but he is in fact the good boy. 50:43.495 --> 50:44.275 [SPEAKER_00]: He's the best boy. 50:44.316 --> 50:44.696 [SPEAKER_00]: He's great. 50:44.856 --> 50:48.957 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you want a little tweak on horror he helps his owner so much. 50:49.137 --> 50:50.717 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and his brave 50:51.477 --> 51:00.385 [SPEAKER_00]: So and very curious and I like it's just a beautiful dog his a a little well that little it's prominent pink nose. 51:00.425 --> 51:08.572 [SPEAKER_00]: It's gorgeous in the L of you Oscars for Oscar Myers for indie that's right 51:09.910 --> 51:21.758 [SPEAKER_01]: And because we love horror, we'll touch real quick on the two big horrors right now and say, in our opinion, save your money on backgrounds and go watch Obsession twice. 51:22.199 --> 51:22.439 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 51:24.180 --> 51:24.620 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 51:26.342 --> 51:28.023 [SPEAKER_01]: That was our update. 51:29.164 --> 51:32.046 [SPEAKER_01]: See you guys here from us in August. 51:32.446 --> 51:32.826 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's it. 51:35.148 --> 51:35.388 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 51:35.748 --> 51:37.229 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 51:39.873 --> 51:40.613 [SPEAKER_00]: That's actually perfect. 51:40.773 --> 51:41.073 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 51:48.556 --> 51:49.316 [SPEAKER_01]: Let us begin. 51:50.096 --> 51:50.616 [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, hold on. 51:51.057 --> 51:52.977 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh. 51:53.017 --> 51:53.797 [SPEAKER_00]: Now let us begin. 51:54.398 --> 51:54.838 [SPEAKER_00]: Let us. 51:54.978 --> 51:55.718 [SPEAKER_01]: So no. 51:55.738 --> 51:55.858 [SPEAKER_01]: Check. 51:55.878 --> 51:56.018 [SPEAKER_01]: Check. 51:56.118 --> 51:56.378 [SPEAKER_00]: Check. 51:56.458 --> 51:56.738 [SPEAKER_00]: Check. 51:56.798 --> 51:57.899 [SPEAKER_00]: I sound great from here. 51:57.939 --> 51:58.999 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't talk about lettuce. 51:59.039 --> 52:03.280 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll have explosive diarrhea more than usual. 52:03.581 --> 52:04.881 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, additional diarrhea. 52:09.256 --> 52:10.557 [SPEAKER_01]: Why can't I poop a horse? 52:11.958 --> 52:13.679 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, it's update time. 52:15.041 --> 52:16.502 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that's a good energy to bring? 52:17.863 --> 52:18.843 [SPEAKER_00]: You're a regular energy? 52:19.124 --> 52:19.324 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 52:22.486 --> 52:23.687 [SPEAKER_00]: They call it an insult. 52:26.970 --> 52:29.231 [SPEAKER_00]: And now the audio is equalized. 52:30.072 --> 52:34.736 [SPEAKER_01]: The audio is equalized. 52:36.138 --> 52:36.958 [SPEAKER_00]: Join our Patreon. 52:37.579 --> 52:39.059 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever the top level is, give it to us. 52:43.201 --> 52:44.101 [SPEAKER_01]: Money! 52:44.121 --> 52:44.221 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 52:45.201 --> 52:46.562 [SPEAKER_01]: So the department's, Ooh. 52:46.582 --> 53:04.428 [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh 53:05.023 --> 53:06.604 [SPEAKER_00]: I just piss the bed. 53:08.404 --> 53:09.465 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what she's implying. 53:09.605 --> 53:12.726 [SPEAKER_01]: She didn't say, she didn't say, I don't have accidents. 53:12.986 --> 53:14.466 [SPEAKER_01]: She just said she doesn't wear that anymore. 53:15.627 --> 53:16.607 [SPEAKER_00]: She's free-shitting. 53:16.787 --> 53:19.188 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what I've decided. 53:21.108 --> 53:24.170 [SPEAKER_01]: Another witness was Ron Estrada, Ron. 53:27.131 --> 53:27.571 [SPEAKER_01]: No girl. 53:27.651 --> 53:29.391 [SPEAKER_01]: My name is David Estrada. 53:36.513 --> 53:36.733 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 53:37.214 --> 53:41.577 [SPEAKER_00]: His name is Ron Stamson, I mean, Ron is strata. 53:41.597 --> 54:05.397 [SPEAKER_01]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 54:08.377 --> 54:13.561 [SPEAKER_00]: You just have to let them imprint on each other and they'll start to translate Gopagol's for each other. 54:14.762 --> 54:19.466 [SPEAKER_00]: And the walkings are problem because I have seven toes and a fucked up right foot. 54:19.506 --> 54:20.066 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.