[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Jamie Cochran.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Lake Babin.
[SPEAKER_00]: We need wind.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm extreme watershed podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're back with another episode of the lead wind popcast here with Lake Babin and Carlos Mendez.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to hit on a topic that we have touched on before because I don't think you can over explain this idea of detachment.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't talk about it enough because
[SPEAKER_00]: What we know to be true is leaders do not make good decisions when they are emotional.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we see this play out so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to tackle this from a slightly different angle than some of our past podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I happen to be on site with Carlos on a client site recently.
[SPEAKER_00]: He told us awesome story about detachment and specifically how detachment can help us better see and innovate in chaotic environments to actually solving problems.
[SPEAKER_00]: Carlos, tell us about that example.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so I was giving the example when I was in the SEAL teams.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was one of the close quarter combat instructors.
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things that I would do is I would, you know, show up early in the morning and I would read the after actions reports.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would read the after actions reports of missions that Marines did.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had done and the reason I'm reading these reports is because I'm looking for patterns.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking for patterns as to what the enemy is doing and if for whatever reason I see a pattern that I haven't seen before That's what we're gonna put in front of the guys for the training and it was just one scenario that came up one time And I remember reading it and thinking to myself, oh, man, this is this is really elementary like our guys wouldn't do this All right, so I kind of skipped over it, but then I saw it again and I'm thinking to myself, all right, like this is this is come up twice
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see what our guys do, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So what the scenario was very simply put, we call it the barricade shooter.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what it was is this insurgent would find a way to play on the service members' emotions in order to get them to come into the room.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they would be completely barricaded, whether it was behind a false wall or they had sandbags and they'd be there with their machine gun.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'd wait for that first service member to go in the room and they'd shoot them and the next guy would go in there to get him and the next guy would go in there to get him and now you got four or five bodies in that room and obviously it's a problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I remember discussing it with some of the other instructors, and we're like, hey, let's put this scenario in front of our guys and see what they're going to do, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we're like, there's no way they're going to do the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're navy seals.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we set that scenario and guess what our guys did?
[SPEAKER_01]: They did the exact same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: They went in one after the next, after the next.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember thinking of myself, why do they keep going in that room?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it actually got to the point where we had to call the scenario.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had to just blow the way something like, all right, this is getting out of hand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just debrief this thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And even in the debrief, my guys are like, fighting me on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that was the right call.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, why wouldn't we go in that room?
[SPEAKER_01]: What am I supposed to do?
[SPEAKER_01]: Leave my buddy in there?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I waited for them to calm down and then I, I simply asked the question, hey, fellas, was this a hostage rescue?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't, and this was a training mission, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't a hostage rescue.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so my next question was, do we actually have to go in that room?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do we have to go in that room?
[SPEAKER_01]: And the answer is, no, we don't have to go in a room.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had all these other things that are disposal, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We had robots, we had dogs, we have thermobiric grenades, we have regular grenades, we have smokes, everybody's carrying an explosive charge on them, we have ladders, we have all these different options that are disposal that we could use to...
[SPEAKER_01]: handle that problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: And my question is always, why couldn't they see all those options at their disposal?
[SPEAKER_01]: And the simple answer is because there were two emotionally attached to that scenario and they had tunnel vision and they couldn't innovate and adapt and find different solutions to our problems because that's what happens when we're two emotionally attached to something.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a fantastic training scenario and I mean, that's one of the things that made sealed training so good is that when you're reviewing those reports that are coming back from overseas and trying to create realistic training so that your team is prepared for the most difficult, realistic scenarios they might encounter and everybody should be doing that.
[SPEAKER_02]: regardless of what industry they're in, of thinking about those realistic scenarios of creating realistic training to prepare your team.
[SPEAKER_02]: Having been to that scenario myself and absorbed it as a by-setter, so easy to see what not to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yet, when you get this tunnel, then you get sucked into that problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think particularly as seals, like we're talking never to quit, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not gonna quit, we're default.
[SPEAKER_02]: The aggressive, we're gonna make things happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: You gotta get in there and get aggressive to solve a problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so you almost have to be given permission
[SPEAKER_02]: to and I watched Jockel do this when he was the training detachment officer in charge and I would go out and shadow as the operations officer of the seal team and I would watch my seal battoons that were going through the training scenarios that the center is that that you and and you're training a fellow training instructors had set up and I watched that scenario unfold.
[SPEAKER_02]: and people just keep sending more people in more people in the room more people down the hallway you know that the and and bodies are piling up and it took jocco to just look at the of the leader there and say hey does this seem like a good idea right now
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to keep throwing more people at the problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: More people at the problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it, do you think there's maybe a better way to solve this problem?
[SPEAKER_02]: And what he was forcing was them to think through that detachment.
[SPEAKER_02]: Forcing them to, you know, they've got this tunnel vision that's blinders on of, like, focus all focus on the problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me think through the problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, can we, can we go, can we get on the outside of the building and toss a grenade to the window or, you know, can we go around and go up on the rooftop and come down to the ceiling
[SPEAKER_02]: It always innovative ways to attack the problem and it was very eye-opening for people to realize like oh, that's not the right scenario.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just to keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result, which is the definition of insanity right that people talk about.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we all get sucked into that as leaders.
[SPEAKER_02]: and it doesn't just apply on the battlefield.
[SPEAKER_02]: We see this all the time in the business world where people are like, hey, I've got this great idea and we're gonna execute on this new strategy and it's gonna work and we're gonna put a bunch of capital toward the strategy and don't put much of marketing effort towards the strategy and it's not working, it's not working, it's not working.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're seeing that we're losing money.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what we should do?
[SPEAKER_02]: Throw a mobile money at the problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's double down this triple down.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's quadruple down.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so you start to have this, you have the sunk costs and a problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've already said so much money on this problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got to spend even more instead of someone taking a step back and saying, hey, this isn't working.
[SPEAKER_02]: is this actually solving the problem?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is this actually achieving the goal that we wanna achieve?
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's take a step back, let's detach from the problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now all of a sudden, we can come up with an innovative solution.
[SPEAKER_02]: That can be effective to get that problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: So our accomplish a goal that we're trying to accomplish.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what's funny is we have certain scenarios in our FTX training where we do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We create a very big problem for people where they keep throwing more resources and more resources and it was really cool to watch the client make the connection to the business world because in the debrief.
[SPEAKER_01]: This one young lady said, oh, this reminds me of this one time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she explained to this scenario.
[SPEAKER_01]: So these were software developers.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she was talking about a software program that they were creating.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's somewhere along the lines.
[SPEAKER_01]: They realized a little some type of coding problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she said, oh, we need to fix this coding problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they go, how long is it going to take?
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, it's going to take two weeks.
[SPEAKER_01]: So two weeks go by, two months go by, four months go by, six months go by and they're pouring all this time and energy and manpower into this coding problem and they're getting nowhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't until she said it wasn't until one person actually stood up and asked a question, how important is this coding problem?
[SPEAKER_01]: And everybody just sat there for a while and said, well, you know what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, it's not that important to our mission.
[SPEAKER_01]: And not only that, it's almost obsolete now at this point six months later.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they had put all that time and energy and manpower into that problem because they weren't detached from that situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I thought it was really cool how the client was the one that made the connection from the scenario and the battlefield that we had given them through our FTX trading.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, those examples are so powerful.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love when Jocca tells a story of Seth Stone coming out and observing training.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he was injured, so he was just in an observation role.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were going through some of the scenarios.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys have both described.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Seth was, you know, sitting next to Jocca and kept saying, can I help them?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I help them?
[SPEAKER_00]: He saw the solution so clearly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the result was at the end of that solution when he finally gave them like, hey, you got to go and do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: His answer to Jocca was, man, it's so much easier way up here.
[SPEAKER_00]: and Jacob describes that they were like 12 inches above I'm like a curb watching it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But incess mind, it was way up here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's the part for leaders that we don't realize.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not even this big effort to detach.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a small little effort that we pull ourselves out of the core of that problem that feels like, man, we're way up here.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can now see what actually needs to get done.
[SPEAKER_00]: And innovation requires that clarity.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we can't,
[SPEAKER_00]: Find that clarity if we don't first attach so we can assess the real situation of what we're trying to do and get the full picture of what we're trying to tackle in that moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: The attachment really isn't super power, and when you see it in action, it's so easy to see what needs to happen when you're from a detached position.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that example highlights it very clearly, and that's what you should be striving for as a leader.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the example often give is, if you're looking on the sides of your weapon, your whole world is this cardboard paper towel dispenser to you, you can't see anything, you have a very narrow focus, you have this tunnel vision, but the moment that you come off of your
[SPEAKER_02]: point your gun to the sky, take a step back off the firing line, all of a sudden your field of vision opens up to 180 degrees or more as you look around the left and right, you take a step back and you can see what actually needs to be done.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's how we prioritize an execute.
[SPEAKER_02]: When you don't know what to do, the answer is always the same to touch.
[SPEAKER_02]: It enables you to see what the highest priorities are.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can attack with highest priorities.
[SPEAKER_02]: It enables you to have better decision making with clarity, aligned with your strategic priorities.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what's most important is that example you gave Carlos highlights.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it also enables you to come up with an innovative solution to a problem, is this the best way to solve that problem?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think these things, as leaders, if you realize that your default position shouldn't be looking down in a problem, it should be looking up and out.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's why it's so important.
[SPEAKER_02]: Delegate the task that you need to delegate, use decentralized commands so that you can stand back and see the holes in a plan, or to evaluate where actually you want to go and what's the best way to get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we've done episodes in the past where we talk about detachment, but we talk about it in a bunch of different ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: We always say detachment is a superpower.
[SPEAKER_00]: And often times we focus on how detachment allows us to make better decisions, how detachment allows us to build more relationship capital and to build better relationships.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about detachment as it relates to being able to understand what the main priority is we can execute on that first top priority.
[SPEAKER_00]: In this episode, focusing on the idea that detachment is what really allows us to innovate and adapt.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the history is riddled with companies who weren't capable of doing this, of innovating in that moment, think of the blackberries, or the blockbusters of the world, who are so emotionally invested in their own ideas, they were not detached enough to see that there was a better opportunity out there, and they missed out big time, and it hurt their organization hurt their teams.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a piece of detachment we don't always talk about.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's how detachment connects us and allows us to actually innovate in those moments when we've got to make changes in our business or we're heading in the wrong direction.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think about why that's the case, you get emotionally attached to plants.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we get stuck in the way that we've always done things this way, this is the way we've always done it.
[SPEAKER_02]: If they broke don't fix it, this is what works for us.
[SPEAKER_02]: These cliches that you hear, but they're true, you get emotionally attached to plants because you're not able to detach and think about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He is that the best way to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: or hate the world is evolving.
[SPEAKER_02]: The marketplace is evolving is what we're doing today is that gonna be, what's gonna be happening five years from now, our 10 years from now, which certainly in the blackberry world or the blockbuster world, it was a failure to really take a step back and think about what the world might be like and how things might change.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's a great,
[SPEAKER_02]: illustration that it prevents innovation.
[SPEAKER_02]: It stifles creativity.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't come up with creative solutions to problems or think about how you might need to innovate and adapt if you're not detached.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're totally down in the details, stuck to the way you're always doing things.
[SPEAKER_02]: So super critical thing I think to be able to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think another thing that I've seen to attachment do for people is it helps you preserve your your reputation I can't tell you how many times I've run across people who are rude and Listen, I'm a flawed human being right, so that stirs up emotions in me I'll actually give you a pretty good example something haven't very recently I was on a flight With Jocko.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sitting next to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were in three rows.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were in a row with three seats
[SPEAKER_01]: And the gentleman next to me, his colon was extremely strong.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it started to give me a headache.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I told Jockel, I'm like, dude, I'm getting a headache.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, hey, the seat in front of us is empty.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the row in front of us, it was an arrow, exit, exit, exit row.
[SPEAKER_01]: The seats in front of us, it was only two and one of them was empty.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Jocco said, hey, move up there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I moved up there.
[SPEAKER_01]: The girl that was sitting in the seat looks at me and says, this is not your seat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your seat is back there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, hey, I'm really sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said the gentleman's clone is just really give me a headache.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I came sit up here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she doesn't say anything, but she just immediately like spreads her legs and puts her legs in my seat.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's in my seat.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have my book.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this whole time I'm thinking,
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know I've got Jockel in back of me, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, oh my god, I've got one of these situations.
[SPEAKER_01]: My boss is here who teaches detachment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I've got this opportunity to actually put it into play.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't screw it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of all the times this happens, it happens with Jockel sitting there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she's, she spreads her legs.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just kind of moved to the side.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't give her any reaction at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I continue to try to read my book.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then she elbows me, not once, twice.
[SPEAKER_01]: She like hard elbows me, and I'm still thinking to myself, huh, I'm not pushing you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, she's pushed, she pushed, oh, she completely pushed me off the armrest.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now she's actually in my space in my seat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because now I'm kind of like this with my book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying not to react.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't give her any reaction whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mostly because I'm trying to stay detached and trying to figure out what the best way is to handle this situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could see her cry like literally balling her eyes out to the flight attendant.
[SPEAKER_01]: The flight attendant starts moving towards the back and I'm thinking they're going to ask me to move no big deal, but they walk past me and they walk past me a few times.
[SPEAKER_01]: They grab the young lady, they move their toe and other seat.
[SPEAKER_01]: The flood tenant comes and talks to me and says, hey, what happened?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I explained to her what happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, hey, I moved up here and she started abowing me and kicking me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she said that's so funny because she said that that that's what you were doing to her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now the difference was is I was really calm about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I even told him, hey, listen, I really don't want to be in trouble.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you need me to move back, it's not a big deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll move back.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the fact that she was hysterical and crying had lost her temper and lost her emotions and all these other things,
[SPEAKER_01]: they ended up taking my side in the whole ordeal.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the funny part about all that is, is they actually knew who we were.
[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't say it, but they knew who Joko was and knew who echo was, who's also on F-light.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they knew who we were and just being detached and being calm and courteous and polite, even during that situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: saved our reputation because think about how it would have looked, had I lost my temper, had I been rude back, had I answered back.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now here we are talking about detachment, but now we've got this video on YouTube, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where I'm being rude to this young lady.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it saves your reputation as well at times.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it sounds like you're a provocation too, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So she's doing that in the hopes that you would do it back to her.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now she can hear you, you know, kicking her and elbowing her.
[SPEAKER_02]: So now she can have you move out of the sea.
[SPEAKER_02]: So a great example of how falling into that, the other trap would have only, you know, cost more problems staying detached and able to you to navigate the situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about detachment and you great example of like keeping control of your emotions, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we are keeping control of our emotions and that's an area.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a little bit of ego too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we talk about detachment, we're not just talking about your emotions.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't make your decisions when we're emotional.
[SPEAKER_00]: We also don't make decisions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good decisions when our ego is involved.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our ego.
[SPEAKER_00]: warps the view of what we're looking at.
[SPEAKER_00]: It changes the picture.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't show us the truth of the situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we got to be careful of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the third thing that I've started talking about a lot with clients recently is detaching from our own perspective.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our own perspective that sometimes clouds our ability to hear and see other people's perspective on how we might solve a problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: So touching on this innovation and an adapt piece,
[SPEAKER_00]: If we're not detached from our own perspective, we're going to miss opportunities to grow and improve as a team.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to miss those opportunities to make good decisions that will lead us towards the direction of where we want to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why detachment is so critical.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our emotions for the sake of what you just described.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, that's a good way to just set a good example for the people around us building leadership capital.
[SPEAKER_00]: But also to touch from our ego, because we don't make a decision there, and our own perspective, our own bias and experience
[SPEAKER_02]: I was working with a leader recently and had that very conversation of like, what does this look like to everybody else, you know, and this leader was loves his team and was trying to support the team, but was weighing into something that was really outside of his lane when he should have been focused on another piece of the team of things that were within his responsibility.
[SPEAKER_02]: And some of those things weren't going as well as they should, so I encourage him to focus there and to think about, like, hey, if you're weighing in on this other thing over here, like, is that helping the team?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, is that helping the relationships across the team?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think those are, those are things where it's real easy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And once I said that, he was like, oh, yeah, totally understood.
[SPEAKER_02]: He recognized that was a problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he, before he, I'd asked the question, he had not detached, and he had not considered the perspective of their people
[SPEAKER_02]: And he was coming from a good place.
[SPEAKER_02]: He wanted to try to help, but it was not an option to help in the team.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't building relationships across the team.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was only hurting, hurting him, a costly leadership cap on that regard.
[SPEAKER_02]: So those are things that we absolutely have to consider is taking a step back, thinking about the perspective of other people.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes that means that that you may disagree with me, you know, Carlos may disagree with me on something and if I come up with a plan and say, okay, here's what we should do and Carlos says, I don't think it's a good idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: Instead of me saying, like, what are you talking about, Carlos?
[SPEAKER_02]: I know better than you.
[SPEAKER_02]: What I should say is,
[SPEAKER_02]: That's interesting, because I'd like to hear your perspective.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why?
[SPEAKER_02]: Why do you not think that's a good idea?
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you see something that I didn't see.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you see a better way to solve this problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what the best leaders are going to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: They can actually detach from the problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not a mostly attached to plans.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't, my ego doesn't have to say we have to do it my way.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to do what's best for the team.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's going to lead to the success for the team, which is success for everybody, which means I win everybody wins.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what leadership looks like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, detachment is not being disconnected.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's disconnecting momentarily so you can get a better perspective which ultimately leads to making better decisions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the power truly of detachment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in business and in life with our families, you think about how many relationships have been tarnished because we say something we don't mean.
[SPEAKER_00]: We make a decision that is wrapped up in our emotions and our ego.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's terrible.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think one way tactically that we can stay detached
[SPEAKER_02]: even under the high pressure of a situation is to think through a contingency plan.
[SPEAKER_02]: Think through what might actually go wrong and have a plan in place before we get into that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And just an example of that from the battlefield is if I'm going to patrol down the street, let's say it's an Iraqi urban scenario, like we had back of the day and task in a bruiser if we're in the city of Ramadi and we have a bunch of Iraqi soldiers with us from a patrolling down the street in the daytime.
[SPEAKER_02]: If I move in an area where I think we might actually
[SPEAKER_02]: When I'm in that scenario, all of a sudden bullets are flying around and RPG rockets are sailing overhead and explosions are going off, it's very chaotic, it's difficult to detach and figure out what the right thing to do is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Before I even get into that scenario, when I'm back in the mission planning space, before we launch into that neighborhood, before we're on that patrol, if I'm thinking what might actually go wrong, hey we're moving into that area, we might actually take contact as we patrol down the street.
[SPEAKER_02]: there's I could see from the map that there's a three story a building here with a big wall around it if we take contact run a fall back in that building we're gonna strong point in that building will take the rooftop will assess the situation from there so now once I'm in that scenario bullet flying around in the pressure and chaos instead of having that tunnel vision I don't know what to do
[SPEAKER_02]: I already know what to do, because I've thought about what to do before I was in the high pressure situation before the pressure's on.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so now I can actually make the call to fall back to that position, take that three sore ability, and even better if I've let the team know what to do before we get in that scenario.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're already making the decisions.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're already laying down surprised if they're already moving back, they're taking the building, they're clearing the building.
[SPEAKER_02]: So now I can think about the next scenario beyond that as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this applies obviously not just on the battlefield.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know that, you know, Carlos is a peer in a different department, and we've had some frictions, and that we haven't gotten long before, and there was a blow up in the last meeting, well, I need to have a contingency plan in place.
[SPEAKER_02]: Think about, okay, if Carlos is gonna come at me with a personal attack, make some snide comment about my department and the things that we're failing to do support his team, instead of getting emotional about that and instead of letting that get on my skin, I need to have a plan.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna stay detached.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a breath and calm down.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna de-escalate the situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna take ownership of the things that we could do better job of so that we can move forward together and get prom solved and work together to accomplish the mission and win.
[SPEAKER_02]: So then after we're getting done with that meeting, I can actually evaluate how did I do?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did my ketysi plant work?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did I state emotional?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did I say detached?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did we come up with a solution together?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, to solve the problem?
[SPEAKER_02]: And having that plan in place before I get under pressure, before my emotions, before my ego's involved, can make all the difference to the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know where you came up with those contingency plans, though, is in the debrief.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the beginning story that I told you, hey, in that debrief, these candidates, seals, were able to see the scenario.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were able to process it and talk about it in the debrief.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then in the debrief, if they were able to talk about, okay, if this happens again, here's what we're going to do, and here's responsible for what?
[SPEAKER_01]: which is why I like to say, hey, that debrief not only helps you detach, but it helps your team detach because it's allowing you to process all these patterns that you're coming across.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now the other thing I talk about too in terms of how to get good at this detachment piece, a lot of people want this magic pill like, hey, in the moment, what can I do?
[SPEAKER_01]: I need some navy seal technique to be able to detach from my emotions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are some things you could do, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You could do some breath works of.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are some things that you could say.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could remove your, you could do all those things, but honestly, probably the best thing that you could do if you really want to get better at detachment is practice.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you practice when the stakes are low.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the beautiful thing about life is,
[SPEAKER_01]: life will give you an endless amount of opportunities to practice this attachment piece.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, think about all the time that you get frustrated, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Your kids are in the backseat yelling and beating each other up.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're stuck in traffic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody cuts you off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Someone's in the fast lane going 50 miles an hour.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your flight got delayed, canceled.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your food order was wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: all those opportunities, all those situations are opportunities for us to be able to practice at detachment pace.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because all these things that you do when things don't matter, that's how you're actually going to react when things that actually matter happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love when people tell me, you know Carlos, I'll do it when it really counts.
[SPEAKER_01]: know you won't know that we have a saying here, echelon front and at this in the teams, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: People people do what?
[SPEAKER_01]: People rarely rise to the occasion, but they always fall back to their level of training and our level of training with this detachment piece is, what do we do on an everyday basis when things don't go our way?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and what I love what you guys are both talking about because we talk a lot of that I should not find about a sort of pre-emptive ownership and as you talk about contingency plans and as you describe how people practice and prepare, it's almost like pre-emptive detachment.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have a plan.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to know what situations were likely to be more emotional in.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have an expectation that the plan that we have in place is going to go wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have some things in place so that when we get into that moment where it's chaotic and things are happening, and we've got to make those calls,
[SPEAKER_00]: we can properly detach by having some contingency plans by having practice prior taking pre-emptive detachment so that we know in those moments what we're going to do to pull ourselves out of that emotional state so we can make good decisions for what the team needs and for what we need to move forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I love this idea of just the pre-emptive detachment.
[SPEAKER_00]: What can we do to prepare?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that brings us to our immediate action drill for the week.
[SPEAKER_00]: which is to do exactly what you just described Carlos practice.
[SPEAKER_00]: The next time that you find yourself feeling overwhelmed or in this chaotic environment, pause.
[SPEAKER_00]: Take that moment to detach so you can better see the outcome of what is that iterative step we can take towards solving the problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: use the debrief, like Carlos talked about of what you're going to do to put some contingencies in place, going forward for those things where you know there's going to be emotional response or your ego might get involved, have a contingency plan so that you can execute.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then evaluate afterward, do a debrief as well, how did I do, how did I follow the protocol that I stayed attached, that one able you to stay detached so that you can come up with innovative solutions to your problems so that you can lead and win.