WEBVTT 00:00.131 --> 00:06.472 [SPEAKER_01]: Can we truly be healing doing our best work if we aren't in relationships? 00:06.792 --> 00:17.194 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's one of the biggest misconceptions in personal development is that healing, like your healing journey is going to create peace, love, and harmony all around you. 00:17.695 --> 00:24.016 [SPEAKER_01]: When we do the work of healing what's within us and changing and becoming at peace with ourselves and all of that, 00:25.316 --> 00:28.498 [SPEAKER_01]: It radically affects the way we see the world and people around us. 00:29.239 --> 00:32.441 [SPEAKER_01]: So when one person changes within a system, everybody feels it. 00:32.801 --> 00:43.148 [SPEAKER_01]: Healing eventually exposes the places where each person in the relationship is willing or unwilling. 00:43.888 --> 00:44.249 [SPEAKER_01]: to grow. 00:44.790 --> 00:47.414 [SPEAKER_01]: Healing does not create integrity. 00:48.235 --> 00:49.297 [SPEAKER_01]: It does reveal it. 00:49.938 --> 00:53.384 [SPEAKER_01]: Relationships change because relationships always do and they should. 00:54.045 --> 00:57.490 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's whether both people are willing to let it. 01:04.314 --> 01:06.215 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the MindChange Podcast. 01:06.416 --> 01:07.516 [SPEAKER_01]: We are so glad you're here. 01:08.057 --> 01:16.703 [SPEAKER_01]: Before we jump in, if you've been enjoying these conversations, would you do us a quick favor, hit subscribe, or follow, give this episode a like. 01:17.224 --> 01:20.146 [SPEAKER_01]: And if something resonates with you today, leave us a comment below. 01:20.486 --> 01:23.008 [SPEAKER_01]: Those simple actions don't just support the show. 01:23.508 --> 01:31.314 [SPEAKER_01]: They also help the platform recognize that you'd like to see more conversations like this, making it more likely that they'll continue showing up in your feed. 01:31.714 --> 01:40.860 [SPEAKER_01]: And today, we'd especially love to hear from you because this topic is one that almost everyone experiences differently. 01:41.241 --> 01:44.723 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you noticed your relationships changing as you've grown? 01:45.363 --> 01:49.286 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you've become closer to someone, or maybe you've drifted apart? 01:49.707 --> 01:51.388 [SPEAKER_01]: Share your experience in the comments. 01:51.908 --> 01:58.173 [SPEAKER_01]: We really do read them and many of our future episodes come directly from your questions and stories. 01:58.593 --> 02:04.017 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, let's talk about something that surprises almost everyone who begins healing. 02:04.477 --> 02:12.143 [SPEAKER_01]: Most people believe that if they heal, their relationships will automatically get better, life will become easier. 02:12.983 --> 02:18.607 [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone around them will celebrate their growth, but that's rarely how it works. 02:19.548 --> 02:38.940 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes your relationships do become stronger, sometimes they become more authentic, sometimes they become healthier than they've ever been, and sometimes they fall apart, not because healing broke them, but because healing revealed what was already there. 02:39.280 --> 02:42.562 [SPEAKER_01]: Today, we're talking about what really happens when you change. 02:43.302 --> 02:49.626 [SPEAKER_01]: and why it can feel both incredibly freeing and sometimes incredibly lonely at the same time. 02:50.086 --> 02:54.329 [SPEAKER_01]: And back to help me discuss is, once again, my partner, chemical. 02:54.789 --> 02:55.349 [SPEAKER_01]: So welcome. 02:56.510 --> 02:57.151 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me. 02:57.431 --> 02:58.731 [SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna be a good conversation today. 02:59.032 --> 02:59.532 [SPEAKER_01]: I think so. 02:59.932 --> 03:05.636 [SPEAKER_01]: We hear about this a lot in our student community and with people, you know, questions and comments. 03:05.816 --> 03:07.757 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot about relationships in there. 03:07.797 --> 03:12.760 [SPEAKER_01]: So we figured, let's put this in a podcast episode. 03:13.009 --> 03:13.169 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 03:13.209 --> 03:17.432 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're all in relationships every single human hopefully. 03:17.933 --> 03:22.276 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're not that's a great place to start it is a good place. 03:22.677 --> 03:33.685 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it's really one of those things that can we truly be healing doing our best work if we aren't in relationship. 03:33.925 --> 03:40.410 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, because we are like our minds and our bodies are made for community are made for connection. 03:41.030 --> 03:47.535 [SPEAKER_00]: And so really vital to make sure that not only are we in relationship, we're in a relationship when you're born, right? 03:47.555 --> 04:00.524 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you automatically have a relationship with your mother or, you know, but healthy relationship is really what's going to help people thrive, rather than just being in a relationship. 04:04.190 --> 04:19.782 [SPEAKER_01]: easier to go sit in a monastery or go away or sit in meditation for hours and hours and hours and hours a day and not have the revealing work of relationship. 04:19.942 --> 04:32.230 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you can like be enlightened on the mountain and be in your but then you come down From the mountain and realities there waiting for you and so it's not just what can you do on your own? 04:32.650 --> 04:46.720 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I can be really safe and quiet and at peace and everything's good and the world is good when I'm alone But the test Really is how deep has the change gone how much growth has there been 04:47.620 --> 04:55.785 [SPEAKER_00]: And that test is really in a relationship with life, with the world, with spouse, with brother, sister, mother, father. 04:56.146 --> 04:58.407 [SPEAKER_01]: Friend, co-worker, boss. 04:58.427 --> 04:59.748 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, definitely. 05:00.188 --> 05:01.969 [SPEAKER_01]: And listen, we need the mountain top moments. 05:02.209 --> 05:03.370 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, 100% we need that. 05:03.410 --> 05:06.492 [SPEAKER_01]: Meditative quiet, alone times. 05:07.473 --> 05:14.917 [SPEAKER_01]: But the real test of the work, whatever that is, is in relationship. 05:16.318 --> 05:28.924 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like we need the dojo to train to practice and we need outside real life experiences to actually like, oh, can I use these skills that I'm trying to gain? 05:29.264 --> 05:30.225 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely. 05:30.805 --> 05:41.230 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's one of the biggest misconceptions in personal development is that healing, like your healing journey is going to create peace, love, and harmony all around you. 05:41.670 --> 05:47.231 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it can, maybe, but it doesn't, it does. 05:47.511 --> 05:56.053 [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of it, I would say 99% of that equation is because we put out what is within. 05:56.433 --> 05:56.773 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 05:57.153 --> 06:04.095 [SPEAKER_01]: So when we do the work of healing what's within us and changing and becoming at peace with ourselves and all of that, 06:05.396 --> 06:08.601 [SPEAKER_01]: It radically affects the way we see the world and people around us. 06:09.782 --> 06:19.276 [SPEAKER_00]: And not just like putting the peace or the love or the joy or the whatever on top of like I have all of these problems and issues and I'm just going to like zen out. 06:19.937 --> 06:37.150 [SPEAKER_00]: But like you said, it's really coming from within like when we hold the piece and the love and everything else inside that's what emanates that's what radiates out of us that's what flows out of us and into for this topic relationship. 06:37.373 --> 06:50.144 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's really why the subconscious work is so important because it's the thing that's really driving and directing our thoughts, behaviors, attitudes, choices, identities, all of that. 06:50.244 --> 06:53.687 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is how we do relationships. 06:53.707 --> 07:01.073 [SPEAKER_01]: So healing through those things is really holistic healing. 07:01.733 --> 07:10.199 [SPEAKER_01]: It isn't compartmentalized healing, which I think a lot of us have done, a lot of things out there promote that without realizing it. 07:10.599 --> 07:12.140 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say I did that. 07:13.021 --> 07:20.665 [SPEAKER_01]: I still have the ability to do that at times, but it's something we've noticed in ourselves and then our relationships. 07:20.746 --> 07:27.130 [SPEAKER_01]: And so like we do, when we learn something and we go through something, we bring it and try to share that with other people. 07:27.810 --> 07:46.759 [SPEAKER_01]: So we've established that true healing doesn't automatically create harmony, but in my experience what healing does create if we're really going after it for doing the subconscious work and the conscious work is healing creates honesty. 07:47.919 --> 08:06.084 [SPEAKER_01]: Because to really heal, we have to stop pretending, stop performing, we have to get curious about our identities and our drivers and why we do what we do and why we think what we think. 08:06.584 --> 08:24.821 [SPEAKER_01]: All of that needs to be addressed, so at that point, you know, people stop saying yes when they mean no, they may stop apologizing for existing or feel they need to get too big and too exaggeratory or shrink back and be too small, too little. 08:25.341 --> 08:29.303 [SPEAKER_00]: which was definitely a huge dynamic if we're just talking about our relationship. 08:29.363 --> 08:41.750 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you would be more the like over-traumatizing, I would be the everything's fine, like, try to calm you down, but that was me kind of like shrinking and not one. 08:41.810 --> 08:46.533 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, not alive, very much, and you were very alive. 08:46.593 --> 08:48.374 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a dynamic there, right? 08:48.414 --> 08:51.295 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, I mean, that's going to happen in a relationship 08:54.708 --> 09:05.433 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, part of it is that once we really meet ourselves and know ourselves and continue on that journey, we stop chasing approval from the outside. 09:05.573 --> 09:08.654 [SPEAKER_01]: We stop outsourcing as much. 09:08.674 --> 09:11.296 [SPEAKER_01]: And when all of those different things change, 09:12.396 --> 09:18.104 [SPEAKER_01]: Then every relationship around us has to change because it has to reorganize. 09:19.426 --> 09:20.167 [SPEAKER_01]: I've talked about it. 09:20.528 --> 09:21.489 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm the podcast. 09:21.509 --> 09:28.199 [SPEAKER_01]: I talk about it a lot in the course community and in the course as I believe, but the idea of scripts of 09:28.639 --> 09:28.859 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 09:29.379 --> 09:33.480 [SPEAKER_01]: Each relationship develops its own script. 09:34.501 --> 09:40.362 [SPEAKER_01]: And if anyone's ever done any stage acting, the script is really, really, really important. 09:41.142 --> 09:50.605 [SPEAKER_01]: It helps you know where you're at and where you're going and what role you're in and what role they're in and it really organizes. 09:51.285 --> 09:54.527 [SPEAKER_01]: how you do the performance, right? 09:55.107 --> 09:58.048 [SPEAKER_01]: So scripts are really important to relationships. 09:58.649 --> 10:04.471 [SPEAKER_01]: Now ideally, we're not in a performance, but that's what it becomes over time. 10:05.192 --> 10:05.832 [SPEAKER_01]: The brain seeks to 10:08.093 --> 10:31.658 [SPEAKER_01]: become an energy saver it wants to short cut things and so it says okay this person is this in their life they are this way I am this way this is how we work together or don't work together and then it just provides a script and so to stay comfortable in a relationship even if it's really really really uncomfortable 10:32.438 --> 10:39.081 [SPEAKER_01]: And by comfortable and more mean familiar, we stay in these scripts, right? 10:40.061 --> 10:47.725 [SPEAKER_01]: And when we begin to heal, those relationships go off script. 10:48.565 --> 10:49.505 [SPEAKER_01]: We go off script. 10:50.766 --> 10:53.347 [SPEAKER_01]: And it can be really uncomfortable for the other person. 10:53.767 --> 10:57.189 [SPEAKER_01]: So it does call for a mass reorganization of 10:59.230 --> 11:04.333 [SPEAKER_01]: The relationship, the script, not even just the script, but the play we might be presenting, right? 11:05.033 --> 11:12.757 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's because relationships aren't always built on just, well, for talking about romantic relationships or familial relationships. 11:13.238 --> 11:15.199 [SPEAKER_01]: They're not always just built on love. 11:16.627 --> 11:24.112 [SPEAKER_01]: And even if we think that they're built on love, our own versions of love and our own relationship with love is really, really different for each person. 11:24.992 --> 11:33.898 [SPEAKER_01]: So in that sense, they're really built on programs, the patterns, the way we know how to do something. 11:34.288 --> 11:34.488 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm. 11:35.168 --> 11:36.349 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 11:36.369 --> 11:53.497 [SPEAKER_00]: So as far as like knowing how to do something, I think that's probably one of the most for me was biggest surprises because most relationships develop some sort of an unconscious rhythm, right, whereas you're talking about like everyone knows their role. 11:53.637 --> 11:55.238 [SPEAKER_00]: Like this is how I show up. 11:55.278 --> 11:56.419 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're not thinking this. 11:56.699 --> 12:00.401 [SPEAKER_00]: This is an unconscious thing, but this is why 12:01.381 --> 12:29.208 [SPEAKER_00]: Many people can relate to, you live your own life, you've been out on your own for years and years or even decades and you come home for the holidays or you're back with your parents and you're with your sister and like you go back into like little boy or little girl or little sister, little brother like big sister or whatever it is when you're back there because this is the role that was created unconsciously and the same thing can show up 12:30.228 --> 12:32.670 [SPEAKER_00]: Romantic relationships or whatever else it is. 12:32.990 --> 12:34.571 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, even work relationships. 12:35.251 --> 12:42.236 [SPEAKER_01]: So often you'll see people have serial issues in their work relationships. 12:42.696 --> 12:44.437 [SPEAKER_01]: They were this way in this job. 12:44.938 --> 12:45.858 [SPEAKER_01]: They changed jobs. 12:45.878 --> 12:46.819 [SPEAKER_01]: They could change cities. 12:46.839 --> 12:48.420 [SPEAKER_01]: They could even change careers. 12:49.321 --> 12:51.502 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're going to see the same thing pop up. 12:52.022 --> 12:52.182 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 12:52.202 --> 12:56.365 [SPEAKER_01]: That's because it's a relationship with work. 12:56.405 --> 12:57.506 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a relationship with career. 12:57.526 --> 12:58.947 [SPEAKER_00]: Not just the person. 12:59.267 --> 12:59.807 [SPEAKER_01]: correct. 13:00.207 --> 13:03.289 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and you may have, I always get a boss like this, right? 13:03.349 --> 13:08.110 [SPEAKER_01]: Always have a co-worker like this, or they always do this to me, or it's always like that. 13:08.651 --> 13:12.512 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, because that's your known relationship. 13:13.292 --> 13:14.473 [SPEAKER_01]: And very frequently, 13:15.153 --> 13:27.219 [SPEAKER_01]: In all of our relationships, we're working to resolve an unresolved childhood wounding or pattern or learning that goes against who we truly truly are. 13:27.839 --> 13:35.303 [SPEAKER_01]: But yes, that's what happens is that we're in these roles that we are not conscious of. 13:36.268 --> 13:43.574 [SPEAKER_01]: They are subconscious and so it's very difficult to question a role if you're not doing the subconscious work and seeing what's coming up, right? 13:44.074 --> 13:45.175 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me ask you a question about that. 13:45.235 --> 13:47.117 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you're talking about these are unconscious roles. 13:48.038 --> 13:55.464 [SPEAKER_00]: So what about the people that have tapped into a little bit deeper awareness of their programs and their 13:56.665 --> 14:01.027 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, let's say like they're the way that they show up in different rules. 14:01.207 --> 14:18.937 [SPEAKER_00]: For instance, someone has had a string of X's and they all are like this and then they start getting a little bit more into like deeper awareness and some maybe they get into therapy or maybe they get into whatever and they're starting to recognize, oh, I see that 14:19.517 --> 14:36.960 [SPEAKER_00]: the kind of partners I choose is that that or every time I'm in a good relationship I realize I sabotage this, this, and this does awareness alone of the role that they're playing change the role that they're going to be in next. 14:37.565 --> 14:39.746 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, don't we wish that it did? 14:40.406 --> 14:42.526 [SPEAKER_01]: So listen, people do make different choices. 14:42.986 --> 15:00.830 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say you are a great example of me being aware of having a particular type of person that I would be attracted to, which was quote unquote, maybe broken people that needed to be fixed, which I don't believe anymore. 15:01.291 --> 15:03.991 [SPEAKER_01]: But that was my role in childhood 15:07.953 --> 15:13.080 [SPEAKER_01]: So I had a string of, you know, more bad boy type. 15:14.392 --> 15:18.094 [SPEAKER_01]: like the four-lorn, most women know what kind of people I'm talking about. 15:18.775 --> 15:24.078 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you come along and I'm like, okay, I'm aware of what I've done in the past. 15:25.319 --> 15:27.301 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm gonna choose differently. 15:28.061 --> 15:29.862 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna choose differently. 15:30.463 --> 15:37.567 [SPEAKER_01]: Now see, the issue is, I hadn't met myself at the deep, deep subconscious level and made the changes yet. 15:38.388 --> 15:39.529 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew about my pattern, 15:42.804 --> 15:49.046 [SPEAKER_01]: use therapeutic psychological language on why and how and all of that stuff. 15:49.766 --> 15:53.828 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I thought, look at me, I'm choosing someone completely different. 15:55.068 --> 16:01.390 [SPEAKER_01]: And low and behold, the person, the patterns don't work if they don't work, right? 16:01.830 --> 16:10.193 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was still being driven by the lack and the pain and the her and unresolved things from my past. 16:13.195 --> 16:23.964 [SPEAKER_01]: In choosing you, and listen, we choose each other for good reasons too, but this is some of the, and I wouldn't even say these are not good reasons, because they're just the unconscious reasons. 16:24.144 --> 16:24.384 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 16:24.464 --> 16:25.585 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is what happens. 16:25.605 --> 16:30.790 [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to get in relationship with anybody careers as well and all sorts of think friends. 16:32.251 --> 16:33.332 [SPEAKER_01]: do to these things. 16:33.352 --> 16:41.556 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why it's really important to have the relationships they help reveal what's going on in us and then help us work through them. 16:42.477 --> 16:45.718 [SPEAKER_01]: So that was, I thought I was choosing very differently with you. 16:47.519 --> 16:50.040 [SPEAKER_01]: You ticked a bunch of other boxes. 16:50.701 --> 16:52.822 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you weren't the, like, 16:54.254 --> 17:04.339 [SPEAKER_01]: addicted, you know, or sad kind of person on the outside, you for all intents and purposes it really looked like you had everything together. 17:04.359 --> 17:06.561 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I did. 17:07.921 --> 17:18.047 [SPEAKER_01]: But it fit that opposite part of me, which felt like I needed to exaggerate because I like I grew up kind of the 17:18.947 --> 17:33.767 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't ask, don't tell type of, keep everything I hit in, and like a lot of really crazy Iggy stuff going on behind the scenes, but putting up a front that everything's okay, and I wanted to go so far the other way. 17:34.828 --> 17:53.300 [SPEAKER_01]: of, I need everyone to know what's going on all the time, like hyper openness, hyper honesty, and to the point if people would try to do like you did of kind of like, no, but everything's okay, I'd be like, it's not, it's on fire, like everything's on fire all the time. 17:53.660 --> 17:55.741 [SPEAKER_00]: which creates more fire, actually. 17:55.881 --> 17:56.101 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 17:56.301 --> 17:56.481 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 17:56.981 --> 18:01.683 [SPEAKER_01]: Or it keeps you gets you being like, no, no, no, everything's okay. 18:01.703 --> 18:02.244 [SPEAKER_00]: What happened? 18:02.684 --> 18:02.904 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 18:02.964 --> 18:10.047 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that was you played out a very different, but unresolved role for me, which was the one of like, 18:10.550 --> 18:12.550 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, no, no, everything's okay all the time. 18:12.590 --> 18:14.091 [SPEAKER_00]: Everything just put a happy face on it. 18:14.151 --> 18:15.831 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, be okay, just be okay. 18:16.651 --> 18:21.252 [SPEAKER_01]: And that played out a completely different facet of stuff that I needed to work through. 18:22.053 --> 18:31.515 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yes, it's subconscious, unconscious things that we are doing that pull us together for resolution. 18:32.835 --> 18:36.477 [SPEAKER_01]: And awareness is important. 18:36.497 --> 18:42.160 [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of the first steps, but if we stop there, I promise you it's going to keep repeating. 18:42.721 --> 18:43.881 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just going to look different. 18:43.921 --> 18:55.548 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to, there's a, I think this is a book, but some, an old mentor I have used to say that, oh, it is a book. 18:55.768 --> 18:57.209 [SPEAKER_01]: Memories buried alive and never die. 18:58.910 --> 19:02.955 [SPEAKER_01]: and then the addition that the mentor said was, they just come back wearing a different pair of shoes. 19:03.956 --> 19:14.127 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the thing, is these subconscious programs, if we are aware of them, but don't get in and change them subconsciously where they came from. 19:15.948 --> 19:22.191 [SPEAKER_01]: and the identity that we have around it in the secondary gains that are around it, we will make different decisions based on our awareness. 19:23.031 --> 19:26.433 [SPEAKER_01]: But they will just lead us into it's a different doorway into the same program. 19:26.453 --> 19:27.513 [SPEAKER_01]: Does that make sense? 19:28.274 --> 19:29.394 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 19:29.855 --> 19:34.577 [SPEAKER_01]: So take, like as an example, maybe you're the person who always rescues. 19:35.337 --> 19:35.597 [SPEAKER_01]: Right? 19:36.257 --> 19:38.438 [SPEAKER_01]: Or you're the person who always apologizes. 19:40.759 --> 19:43.500 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you're the person who always over at your speaking to me. 19:43.540 --> 19:43.820 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. 19:45.100 --> 19:55.303 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe the one that keeps the piece sort of wins the conflict or you're the one that carries everyone else's emotions and is the fixer of everything, right? 19:56.084 --> 19:59.845 [SPEAKER_01]: Those roles can be identities. 19:59.885 --> 20:01.725 [SPEAKER_01]: They exist for decades. 20:02.186 --> 20:02.826 [SPEAKER_00]: Or lifetimes. 20:03.446 --> 20:11.509 [SPEAKER_01]: or multiple lifetimes depending on if this is the way many people in your family line survive. 20:12.030 --> 20:13.030 [SPEAKER_01]: Right? 20:13.050 --> 20:22.954 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's say then one person gets in, they start doing the real healing work, get in, find those places, and 20:23.554 --> 20:27.996 [SPEAKER_01]: find those subconscious resources, the programs, the patterns, and they start changing. 20:28.777 --> 20:35.840 [SPEAKER_01]: Suddenly, the script, or the dance, or the roles, don't fit anymore. 20:35.900 --> 20:39.562 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't work anymore like they used to. 20:40.463 --> 20:43.204 [SPEAKER_01]: And that creates pain. 20:43.844 --> 20:44.865 [SPEAKER_01]: It creates chaos. 20:44.945 --> 20:46.446 [SPEAKER_01]: It creates uncomfortability. 20:47.286 --> 20:50.928 [SPEAKER_01]: Because relationships are systems. 20:52.787 --> 21:00.159 [SPEAKER_01]: they are intentional systems that have to work together. 21:01.060 --> 21:07.170 [SPEAKER_01]: Even the ones that we would call dysfunctional, it's working for the dysfunction. 21:08.517 --> 21:15.960 [SPEAKER_01]: And if it were to cease working for the dysfunction, then it would be a different system, if that makes sense. 21:16.740 --> 21:25.244 [SPEAKER_01]: It would be functional, but that means two of people have to be functioning in something that works together positively. 21:25.684 --> 21:28.465 [SPEAKER_01]: Even in dysfunction, it's functioning dysfunctionally. 21:28.485 --> 21:30.246 [SPEAKER_00]: It's working. 21:30.366 --> 21:30.906 [SPEAKER_00]: It's working. 21:31.027 --> 21:31.607 [SPEAKER_00]: Not optimal. 21:32.580 --> 21:32.821 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 21:33.121 --> 21:35.324 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and it, but it's optimal for their systems. 21:35.364 --> 21:46.419 [SPEAKER_00]: It's optimal for their to keep things in alignment with what they know and what feels safe because again, just as a reminder, we say this often, but the brain. 21:48.830 --> 22:05.010 [SPEAKER_00]: sees feels hears the unknown as like, oh, oh, because it would rather know what's predicted rather than even if it's something really good, it would rather what it already knows because it feels safer. 22:05.570 --> 22:34.020 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, part of the work that we do in my change to make it complete the stuff we do in the GPS and the manifesto and some of our other exercises are to build the muscle of predicting good things and not just that positive thinking, you know, happy silver lining kind of overlay that does not get through to the subconscious mind the overlay does not reach the subconscious mind. 22:35.000 --> 22:42.584 [SPEAKER_01]: So we do that work to really build the muscle of the subconscious so that it can also predict good things into the unknown. 22:43.445 --> 22:45.085 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's such an important piece. 22:45.646 --> 22:51.129 [SPEAKER_01]: But all of these things, you know, friendships, marriages like we've talked about, the workplaces, their systems, 22:51.849 --> 23:02.994 [SPEAKER_01]: they are really ecosystems that everyone needs to do their part for it to work, the way that it's been working, right? 23:03.594 --> 23:12.378 [SPEAKER_01]: So when someone changes, like really changes, fundamentally changes, like we see in the mind-changed work, everyone else's behavior, every other person in the system, 23:13.899 --> 23:22.351 [SPEAKER_01]: It calls the their systems to adapt, reorganize, so when one person changes within a system, everybody feels it. 23:24.110 --> 23:27.612 [SPEAKER_01]: And that isn't necessarily because anyone's bad. 23:28.333 --> 23:33.837 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not if you're change really threatens someone in your system. 23:34.357 --> 23:38.700 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't mean that that person is bad or less than or lower. 23:39.360 --> 23:43.063 [SPEAKER_01]: It's because the system actually is changing. 23:44.459 --> 23:46.499 [SPEAKER_01]: and they don't have such a known catalyst. 23:47.360 --> 23:49.480 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, you know, you know the work you're putting in. 23:49.820 --> 23:53.321 [SPEAKER_01]: You know the money you've spent, the hours you've put in, you know it. 23:54.441 --> 24:01.623 [SPEAKER_01]: But you come into a system where, even if they know you're doing work, they don't know the extent of what you're doing. 24:02.103 --> 24:10.145 [SPEAKER_01]: And how purposeful you are, and how intentionally you've been in changing how you show up to everything. 24:11.005 --> 24:21.452 [SPEAKER_01]: And for any of us who've done mind-changed, we're also doing the work on the people in the system internally, the way we hold them, the way we represent them, the way we're projecting onto them. 24:22.372 --> 24:29.037 [SPEAKER_01]: So that energy alone is a very powerful force to the other people in the system. 24:29.397 --> 24:32.559 [SPEAKER_01]: And that can feel super uncomfortable, right? 24:33.059 --> 24:35.301 [SPEAKER_01]: I think this is why we hear people say, 24:40.450 --> 24:43.677 [SPEAKER_00]: And have you heard- Yeah, like, something's different over there. 24:43.697 --> 24:46.563 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like, and it's not always like, hey, wow, you're different. 24:46.983 --> 24:48.507 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it's like, you're different. 24:49.695 --> 24:54.099 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a, I don't really like the way I'm experiencing you now. 24:54.199 --> 24:56.181 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really like what you're bringing to the table now. 24:56.261 --> 24:57.782 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they won't say it. 24:58.202 --> 25:10.133 [SPEAKER_00]: They'll just amp up whatever thing or what you were saying, like get louder with their own script to like get you to come back in. 25:10.741 --> 25:36.595 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and this is very the metaphor we're using here again if anyone's ever done any acting is so powerful because it is the way you get someone back on script is you call line you call well If you call for a line you're asking someone offstage to give you the line which you don't do in a performance, but it's like you repeat a very important line to let the person know their off script 25:37.095 --> 25:57.950 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, this happens all the time in movies when it's like two people are in on something and they're trying to fool someone else and it's like, remember the thing that you were going to say to that, like, you're feeding that person to get them to come back to the script, which happens in real life where someone will amp up, but you know, maybe it's just a little bit of a disagreement. 25:57.990 --> 26:03.574 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're used to you disagreeing in a certain way or arguing in a certain way or whatever it is. 26:03.694 --> 26:05.035 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you're like, not. 26:06.016 --> 26:25.423 [SPEAKER_00]: and then they're like pushing more and more and more so that you're like oh my goodness right and you then you come back into the script which is really what they wanted unconsciously the whole time because the roles have to stay the same yeah so like anger is a really good example of this if if one person's the angry partner 26:26.623 --> 26:32.608 [SPEAKER_01]: and then they really change, and they're not doing anger to the degree at all in which they used to do it. 26:33.469 --> 26:36.811 [SPEAKER_01]: But the other partner is used to the anger and the flare. 26:37.792 --> 26:40.975 [SPEAKER_01]: It's how they know how to do the relationship even if they hate it. 26:41.875 --> 26:49.962 [SPEAKER_01]: So if they're in and listen, this is in really 26:51.443 --> 26:56.490 [SPEAKER_01]: intentionally conscious relationships where both partners are doing the work, this can look a little bit differently. 26:57.031 --> 27:00.756 [SPEAKER_01]: But we're really talking about when you're kind of alone doing the work. 27:01.778 --> 27:07.005 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, and then you maybe you're the one who's been doing you getting really, really angry, and then... 27:07.926 --> 27:09.347 [SPEAKER_01]: and then you're just not doing that anymore. 27:09.887 --> 27:20.593 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, your partner only knows that response, only knows how to to deal when you get anger, angry is when they shut down and when they go off, right? 27:20.613 --> 27:22.513 [SPEAKER_01]: They amp up or they amp up, right? 27:23.034 --> 27:24.815 [SPEAKER_01]: So when you don't do anger, 27:25.555 --> 27:28.816 [SPEAKER_01]: When you're like, you go a completely different direction. 27:29.456 --> 27:31.957 [SPEAKER_01]: They literally don't know what to do. 27:32.477 --> 27:34.037 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't know how to respond. 27:34.377 --> 27:52.341 [SPEAKER_01]: So even the partner who's like, so afraid or so shut down or whatever amped up by the anger, the fact that you're not getting angry when you should be getting angry or when you normally get angry, it causes a big malfunction in the system. 27:56.803 --> 27:59.184 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, the lack of anger isn't what feels yucky. 27:59.284 --> 28:04.666 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the lack of familiarity that feels yucky, and that can be really difficult to navigate. 28:05.306 --> 28:16.151 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll add one more difficulty that can be hard for people to navigate is when you're doing the work, and you're really changing, or, you know, and you're, let's use the same example you just did, where it's like everything's fine. 28:18.508 --> 28:23.516 [SPEAKER_00]: Our brain even when we're doing the deeper work creates a different prediction, right? 28:23.556 --> 28:26.240 [SPEAKER_00]: Like when we've actually like, oh, everything's good. 28:26.280 --> 28:32.449 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I can actually remain soft or safe or calm or whatever in this situation. 28:34.311 --> 28:39.974 [SPEAKER_00]: And this can be a new outcome, or this can be a new outcome, or that can be a new outcome. 28:40.054 --> 28:51.601 [SPEAKER_00]: And when the outcome, it kind of defaults to like that person's outcome of like shut down or whatever else, it can do something in us as well, even as we're doing the work. 28:52.162 --> 28:52.722 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we're like, 28:53.130 --> 28:55.312 [SPEAKER_01]: But you're not supposed to be responding this way. 28:55.372 --> 28:56.753 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm different now, right? 28:57.153 --> 28:59.995 [SPEAKER_00]: And that can create a whole other script up. 29:00.015 --> 29:01.757 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's different things that can happen. 29:02.257 --> 29:04.098 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and listen, I think this is a really good point. 29:04.579 --> 29:08.041 [SPEAKER_01]: To mention something of phenomenon that happens often in healing. 29:08.081 --> 29:09.382 [SPEAKER_01]: We see this in our work a lot. 29:10.203 --> 29:12.304 [SPEAKER_01]: Is where people pendulum swing? 29:13.325 --> 29:16.207 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's a facet of capacity. 29:17.588 --> 29:24.633 [SPEAKER_01]: And so let's take someone who, let's say, always says yes when they normally, or always says yes when they should have said no. 29:24.934 --> 29:25.214 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 29:25.554 --> 29:30.958 [SPEAKER_01]: And they do the work and they've been doing the work and they start to realize their worth and they start to realize their value. 29:32.112 --> 29:38.956 [SPEAKER_01]: They become a little know-happy for a while to build out that capacity, right? 29:39.036 --> 29:45.059 [SPEAKER_01]: So they start maybe they say no to things that they really shouldn't be saying no to. 29:45.579 --> 29:51.383 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they're saying no in other areas because the person they really want to say no to, they don't have that yet. 29:52.103 --> 29:57.026 [SPEAKER_01]: So they're practicing in areas where maybe that's not where they need the know. 29:58.106 --> 30:00.488 [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes they're nasty about it. 30:01.388 --> 30:07.270 [SPEAKER_01]: right, if they've been a people pleaser, they're whole life and they're wanting to like move into something different. 30:08.950 --> 30:19.973 [SPEAKER_01]: They may go to another extreme, which is no, and I can't believe that you're so selfish and you're making me do this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and they might be like, 30:21.255 --> 30:33.499 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, that is not a lovely thing to encounter, especially from someone who, if you've known this person for a long time, and they always are just like, yes, yes, yes. 30:34.059 --> 30:39.261 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe you didn't even know that their yes should have been a no. 30:40.810 --> 30:42.911 [SPEAKER_01]: You didn't know that, you're not in their head. 30:43.331 --> 30:45.992 [SPEAKER_01]: They say, yes, you may think they're an easy-going person. 30:46.452 --> 30:48.712 [SPEAKER_01]: They like to do this, that this is great. 30:49.533 --> 30:51.593 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they're guessing all the time. 30:52.494 --> 31:05.438 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, you see that maybe they're burned out at times in Dettadab, but if you're someone who has a very healthy relationship with the yes and I know, it might be difficult for you to conceive that another person doesn't have that same relationship. 31:06.518 --> 31:19.981 [SPEAKER_01]: So, over here doing the work, we think you know somehow all the hard work we've been doing and how we've been saying, yes, and it's been crushing our souls and all of the stuff, but no, you don't know that. 31:21.061 --> 31:26.462 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you asked me to do something and I'm like, NO! 31:26.562 --> 31:27.342 [SPEAKER_01]: How dare you! 31:28.763 --> 31:30.683 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, whoa! 31:31.829 --> 31:35.214 [SPEAKER_01]: You're different, and that may not be a good thing. 31:35.314 --> 31:36.796 [SPEAKER_01]: That might not feel like a good thing. 31:36.896 --> 31:40.341 [SPEAKER_01]: And listen, to be fair, that isn't a good thing for that person. 31:40.722 --> 31:41.663 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want that. 31:41.723 --> 31:47.552 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't want that guy to lady coming in the wrong way with the wrong person at the wrong time. 31:47.732 --> 31:55.977 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but it is a capacity, it is a part of us building the capacity out. 31:56.517 --> 32:09.565 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, if we are in a healthy human journey and we have people around us and we've got some accountability and we're with other people who we share these things with and we're committed to growth, we'll come back and we'll be like, so this is what I did. 32:10.785 --> 32:21.547 [SPEAKER_01]: And those of us, if we're in a, again, and a healthy community of this, will be like, oh, so good job with asserting your boundary, how might that come out a little bit differently? 32:21.707 --> 32:26.548 [SPEAKER_01]: And is this the place that you actually wanted to assert that boundary? 32:27.268 --> 32:30.229 [SPEAKER_01]: And is the fire and dragon side of it? 32:30.569 --> 32:33.789 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that really actually serving both of you in the relationship? 32:34.169 --> 32:36.270 [SPEAKER_01]: We get to get fear of further curious about that. 32:36.290 --> 32:36.630 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 32:37.290 --> 32:48.142 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they got to kind of stretch into that other capacity and be like, oh, I don't actually think that's my ideal version of my no. 32:49.504 --> 32:56.231 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they can find that nice middle where it really stays in alignment with who they say they are. 32:57.608 --> 33:20.081 [SPEAKER_01]: So I will say that and that that's for people pleasing or yesing and knowing that looks really different in a lot of the different programs people do, but it is important to say now because it's a very easy for this to become like us versus them a good versus bad kind of a situation. 33:21.061 --> 33:31.687 [SPEAKER_01]: And those of us in the seed of healing really have the most responsibility here to see how we are showing up in every relationship. 33:32.067 --> 33:35.329 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do want to say that because I think that that's worth saying. 33:35.891 --> 33:48.301 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a whole other topic that we're not going to get into today, but really what we hold from within is either our reaction or our response, right? 33:48.401 --> 33:57.108 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's, there's a big difference, our reaction or the subconscious, like unconscious, whatever comes out because of something that hit me or landed in a certain way. 33:57.128 --> 34:03.753 [SPEAKER_00]: And the response is like, oh, like I have more capacity now to hear and be curious and understand and all of that. 34:03.773 --> 34:03.833 [SPEAKER_00]: So. 34:04.342 --> 34:08.404 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's one of the things that we talk about a lot about the difference between fault and responsibility. 34:08.965 --> 34:16.269 [SPEAKER_01]: I know in our relationship, this has come up a lot where I've, this is my languageing where I'm like, okay, I've see where I've been complicit in this. 34:16.689 --> 34:18.030 [SPEAKER_01]: Even if it's something I don't want to do anymore. 34:19.729 --> 34:20.930 [SPEAKER_01]: but I've been complicit in it. 34:21.491 --> 34:28.897 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, I've gone through a lot of different things, but at one stage, well, one stage, I was really, really angry, right? 34:28.937 --> 34:34.042 [SPEAKER_01]: I did a lot of angry, and then at another stage, this is all before the deeper healing work. 34:34.102 --> 34:36.324 [SPEAKER_01]: I did a lot of shutdown, right? 34:36.384 --> 34:36.724 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, 34:37.605 --> 34:52.132 [SPEAKER_01]: Later on, even in the healing work, I would see my role in how you would respond, like once some of your automatic responses or reactions, it'd be like, so I see where this is coming from, because you're used to me doing this. 34:53.032 --> 34:58.775 [SPEAKER_01]: So that word of being complicit in any relationship, I think is super important. 34:59.475 --> 35:07.823 [SPEAKER_01]: It's challenging and it's probably not one of the words or concepts we use early in the healing journey. 35:08.504 --> 35:16.892 [SPEAKER_01]: But as we've kind of matured through and worked on a lot of stuff and been doing this for a long time, it's definitely an approach that we take now. 35:17.653 --> 35:21.056 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that this is why I've heard it said, 35:22.317 --> 35:29.561 [SPEAKER_01]: like the healing journey or growth or evolution or, you know, enlightenment can feel lonely. 35:31.142 --> 35:47.851 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's because there aren't a lot of communities out there that hold to the level of depth of unconditional positive regard of curiosity that we cultivate in the mind-change community. 35:48.911 --> 35:55.695 [SPEAKER_01]: And so outside of, and I'm sure there are other, I'm sure there are other communities out there, do some of that. 35:57.216 --> 36:02.819 [SPEAKER_01]: I did not, I was not a part of one until I think this is what I started doing. 36:02.859 --> 36:07.481 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I needed, it's a part of why I built my change frankly, is because I needed other people doing this. 36:08.201 --> 36:13.264 [SPEAKER_01]: I needed other people speaking this language and actually doing the work that I could walk beside that, 36:15.125 --> 36:23.889 [SPEAKER_01]: weren't going to just be, you know, like, oh, yeah, that sucks or, hey, you should really work on that all the time. 36:24.109 --> 36:40.917 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like the people who are doing the work, too, that could see what I was doing with unconditional positive regard, but also track patterns and programs along the way and ask really good questions to help me get better and do more of my own exploration. 36:42.045 --> 36:45.928 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you don't have that, I can feel really, really, really lonely. 36:46.609 --> 37:01.281 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it starts with, I mean, if I was going to put a word on it, it's like deep personal integrity where you, you don't have to have somebody else holding you accountable, which there's groups out there that like, you got to have your people holding you accountable. 37:02.122 --> 37:05.103 [SPEAKER_00]: that's because you don't have an internal integrity to do it yourself. 37:05.283 --> 37:09.744 [SPEAKER_00]: And then there's the other where it's like, you're a part of a group, but there's no integrity. 37:09.764 --> 37:28.488 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like me too, you know, all of that, you know, and it's important that there's personal integrity within and then cultivating if we're talking about healthy relationships and not being lonely in it, like having people around you that can hold that same personal integrity for themselves so that we can help one another grow 37:29.348 --> 37:32.549 [SPEAKER_00]: from a place where we're starting at a good foundation. 37:33.270 --> 37:52.717 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and I think carrying a lot of people talking seeing over the years, this is one of those parts of this work that people didn't really expect is what we might call the loneliness aspect of it, of feeling like I'm alone in this. 37:52.957 --> 37:56.779 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, even if I have a partner, even if I have a supportive partner, 37:58.348 --> 38:05.610 [SPEAKER_01]: and they think you're doing like self-improvement or some sort of therapy or the mind-change stuff that you do. 38:06.190 --> 38:08.291 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people are supportive of it. 38:08.551 --> 38:09.111 [SPEAKER_01]: Some are not. 38:09.451 --> 38:10.452 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a whole different story. 38:10.832 --> 38:13.553 [SPEAKER_01]: People are supportive of it, but they don't understand it. 38:14.613 --> 38:18.114 [SPEAKER_01]: Even if you've tried to explain it, they don't fully understand it unless they've done the work. 38:18.694 --> 38:28.156 [SPEAKER_01]: We've seen this happen so many times where someone's doing the work and eventually a family member or a spouse or something gets involved. 38:29.377 --> 38:35.978 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's usually because over time the change and the good change is so undeniable. 38:36.398 --> 38:37.238 [SPEAKER_01]: This was our story. 38:38.179 --> 38:40.319 [SPEAKER_01]: It was so undeniable over time that the partner 38:45.044 --> 38:47.445 [SPEAKER_01]: like in a different league. 38:47.825 --> 38:51.446 [SPEAKER_01]: Not necessarily better, higher, lower, better, not as good. 38:51.966 --> 38:55.507 [SPEAKER_01]: But you just start seeing the gap, right? 38:56.267 --> 39:01.149 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they come in and they start doing my change themselves and they're like, oh, I had no idea. 39:02.089 --> 39:21.823 [SPEAKER_01]: This was the depth that you were going to and so we've had it was so sweet in the student community We had a daughter a grown woman, but her father was joining the community and it was just such a Celebration and it was really neat to see that, but we have a lot of that 39:22.403 --> 39:29.987 [SPEAKER_01]: parents who start and their children are involved or children, grown children, and then their parents get involved. 39:30.728 --> 39:35.511 [SPEAKER_01]: Lots of spouses, we see this with spouses, and... Or even like siblings, right? 39:35.551 --> 39:43.015 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, one person's in it, and their adults, like they're, you know, but then they tell their sister or their brother or, yeah. 39:43.215 --> 39:52.061 [SPEAKER_01]: and then we get whole family systems in, which is really cool, but that's when that doesn't happen and you're kind of doing this on your own to start. 39:52.541 --> 39:53.822 [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, you're not alone. 39:53.862 --> 39:55.303 [SPEAKER_01]: That's how a lot of us started. 39:56.244 --> 39:58.845 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say most of us started that way, honestly. 39:59.686 --> 40:08.672 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that there's loneliness and nother that can be perceived loneliness in that because sometimes when we do that, 40:13.371 --> 40:18.355 [SPEAKER_01]: That we were comfortable with, but more than that that everyone else was comfortable with. 40:19.116 --> 40:27.543 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you served that role in your family and now you're not doing it anymore and everyone's like, we, but you're the this in our family. 40:28.424 --> 40:35.590 [SPEAKER_01]: And so family relationships can change, like we were talking about before every system can change. 40:36.131 --> 40:38.653 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, the people who really, 40:40.288 --> 40:43.109 [SPEAKER_01]: benefit from having a people pleaser in their life. 40:43.929 --> 40:47.110 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, not to vilify them that it works for them for a reason. 40:47.491 --> 40:56.714 [SPEAKER_01]: The same way it would work if you're a people pleaser, but you don't have someone that that works for, yet that's not going to be something that continues to perpetuate in their relationship. 40:57.354 --> 41:11.907 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, the person who loves the people, please are may not love boundaries, they may find boundaries to be threatening or selfish or all sorts of various things, right? 41:12.187 --> 41:15.390 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, for very good reason on their part. 41:17.612 --> 41:32.387 [SPEAKER_01]: There might be people in your life who loved your constant availability, and they might struggle when you start to realize the importance of prioritizing yourself. 41:33.368 --> 41:39.094 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's people who may be dependent on you and your anxiety being the anxious one, the one that 41:39.895 --> 41:45.058 [SPEAKER_01]: like, I get to help fix and get to take care of and get to look after, right? 41:45.638 --> 41:52.041 [SPEAKER_01]: They may not feel they may feel uncomfortable when you become peaceful and being able to do it on your own. 41:52.061 --> 41:52.742 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 41:52.942 --> 41:53.182 [SPEAKER_01]: Right? 41:53.602 --> 41:55.883 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, this is not because there's anything wrong with those people. 41:55.903 --> 41:56.724 [SPEAKER_01]: They're not evil. 41:57.364 --> 42:01.586 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just because every single relationship, every system that we're involved in 42:09.626 --> 42:12.950 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm so moved, given reality. 42:13.230 --> 42:19.197 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so let's talk a little bit than about like why some people grow with you, some people don'ts. 42:20.367 --> 42:39.299 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's something that I personally have seen over and over in our relationship and other relationships with clients is that some people, because you talk about how, you know, relationships change and then sometimes relationships end and sometimes relationships start depending on what we're holding. 42:39.899 --> 42:47.004 [SPEAKER_00]: So sometimes people don't just drift away sometimes people actually become angry. 42:47.724 --> 42:52.527 [SPEAKER_00]: or sometimes they start criticizing you because you're not playing the role, right? 42:52.987 --> 42:56.169 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's an interesting one. 42:56.209 --> 43:00.512 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes people change the story about the relationship. 43:00.592 --> 43:04.795 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, well, this is what really happened, or this is who you really are. 43:04.915 --> 43:10.098 [SPEAKER_00]: This is, well, don't you remember that it's, you know, we know memories, malleable? 43:10.718 --> 43:14.781 [SPEAKER_00]: So all of those responses in relationship, why does that happen? 43:16.830 --> 43:28.217 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I've had a occasion to think about this a lot in the last 10 years and really significantly lately. 43:29.658 --> 43:37.283 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't actually, I don't think that most relationships end because someone starts healing. 43:39.651 --> 43:41.873 [SPEAKER_01]: even though that happens so frequently. 43:42.133 --> 43:45.937 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, we've heard stories about that, not just here, but like in life, right? 43:45.957 --> 43:47.919 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, one person out grew somebody else. 43:47.999 --> 43:54.365 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I mean, I've, you can see the track record of my relationship just, 43:56.948 --> 44:10.275 [SPEAKER_01]: scrutinize in, you know, look in and friendships, careers, family relationships, I mean so many things and the relationship department have changed for me. 44:10.975 --> 44:14.657 [SPEAKER_01]: And it could look like a lot of things have been lost, right? 44:15.497 --> 44:23.481 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, I don't think that that's because necessarily like I've changed 44:27.177 --> 44:46.010 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that relationships end or change because healing eventually exposes the places where each person in the relationship is willing or unwilling to grow. 44:47.820 --> 44:59.862 [SPEAKER_01]: I really, after all this time, I think I can look back and see each one of the relationships and, again, relationships with work or career as well. 45:01.795 --> 45:21.132 [SPEAKER_01]: when they significantly changed and many came to an end, it became because we got to a place where I felt like, this doesn't, this isn't aligning with the integrity or the level of honesty that I want to operate at. 45:22.053 --> 45:22.253 [SPEAKER_00]: What? 45:24.262 --> 45:24.623 [SPEAKER_00]: Why? 45:24.863 --> 45:41.856 [SPEAKER_01]: Why would a relationship end in that way rather than just like keep going or at least it's like it's as good as it is or I do think listen to take personal responsibility here I am committed to radical transformation that is not everybody's journey that is mine 45:42.437 --> 45:44.058 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to our marriage. 45:46.460 --> 45:47.561 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not for everybody. 45:48.601 --> 45:58.068 [SPEAKER_01]: I, though, am committed to that radical transformation, so radical honesty, radical accountability. 45:59.449 --> 46:07.575 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm one of those people that if there's an issue in the relationship, I want to work it out to a fault. 46:08.627 --> 46:10.688 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I'm going to keep showing up. 46:11.588 --> 46:15.689 [SPEAKER_01]: So until we work this thing out, now I was not always like that. 46:16.430 --> 46:17.710 [SPEAKER_01]: I am the consummate lever. 46:18.410 --> 46:22.051 [SPEAKER_01]: I grew up this way if things got hairy, we would move. 46:22.732 --> 46:24.452 [SPEAKER_01]: Easy, move, move, move, move. 46:24.572 --> 46:26.733 [SPEAKER_01]: I never had to really deeply commit to any relationship. 46:27.813 --> 46:35.936 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I kind of had that door mentality of, listen, if at any point things get rough, I can piece out. 46:36.697 --> 46:37.897 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I want to pause you there. 46:38.277 --> 46:47.119 [SPEAKER_00]: And this coincides with things that we've been talking about lately if you've been listening to some of our recent podcasts in the last maybe six months, eight months. 46:47.380 --> 46:51.721 [SPEAKER_00]: We think we started talking a little bit deeper in November or October or last year. 46:52.181 --> 47:01.163 [SPEAKER_00]: But the like piecing out thing or like, I don't have to be here has to do with like, I don't like my circumstance. 47:01.303 --> 47:02.263 [SPEAKER_00]: I want out of it. 47:02.363 --> 47:05.404 [SPEAKER_00]: I want freedom from that thing I was feeling 47:07.284 --> 47:17.308 [SPEAKER_00]: That is actually quite a, I'm not saying it's, it's a healthy masculine trait, but that is a masculine trait to like I want to get out of this because I want to be free from whatever. 47:36.975 --> 47:50.456 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is, I mean, relationships, we all have the masculine, we all have the feminine relationships are important for me, they're having freedoms important for me, but having this, like part of you, that's like in a relationship. 47:51.919 --> 48:06.310 [SPEAKER_00]: I desire transformation, integrity, love, connection, like true honesty, honesty, all of that, because the relationship is so important to you, is quite feminine of you, so. 48:06.390 --> 48:06.970 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank you. 48:06.990 --> 48:07.391 [SPEAKER_00]: Good job. 48:07.751 --> 48:09.052 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also a huge change. 48:09.612 --> 48:18.099 [SPEAKER_01]: And it required an enormous amount of work that I am tending to myself that I have done over the years. 48:18.959 --> 48:22.101 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a polar opposite way that I used to be. 48:22.121 --> 48:36.828 [SPEAKER_00]: You sort of like, you know, in an unhealthy way, we kind of were swapped in that for a long time where I was, again, people pleaser wanting to, you know, I was the guest person in our relationship. 48:36.868 --> 48:37.348 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, 48:37.608 --> 48:58.402 [SPEAKER_00]: the relationships the most important thing and what can I do to make to a piece or and make sure and all of that and then you were like oh my goodness get away from me a little bit of space and it freedom and all of that because things were a little bit swapped but they were done in an unhealthy from an unhealthy program let's call it and then as we allowed each of our programs to 49:00.123 --> 49:22.337 [SPEAKER_00]: deconstruct to deepen who we are in our essences, it allowed more of like, hey, there can actually be health in standing my ground, saying what I think, allowing for the disappointment or the disruption in our relationship for me to not break, and for you to like, okay, there's some things in honesty that need to be like reconciled. 49:22.357 --> 49:26.119 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do that without leaving or shutting down. 49:26.219 --> 49:27.280 [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, it's been beautiful. 49:27.570 --> 49:43.457 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and also in the deep exploration of me, I'm going back and taking radical responsibility for that program that I used to have, I saw and noticed that it was a coping mechanism of mine, like you said, to rewrite history. 49:44.477 --> 49:46.838 [SPEAKER_01]: And we do that as humans. 49:46.858 --> 49:49.119 [SPEAKER_01]: So I would go back and... 49:51.004 --> 49:59.669 [SPEAKER_01]: re-re-calibrate my relationship with certain with people to fit the like the piece out. 50:00.489 --> 50:04.272 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you saying that we rewrite our history to fit our narratives? 50:06.113 --> 50:06.673 [SPEAKER_01]: Always, yes. 50:07.814 --> 50:11.676 [SPEAKER_01]: And unless we're really, really deeply aware of it and intentional about it, sure. 50:12.336 --> 50:20.822 [SPEAKER_01]: But so I would notice that I, and other, I learned this behavior, so I also could study it outside of myself. 50:21.523 --> 50:33.191 [SPEAKER_01]: But I would see that, you know, it's not that I didn't love these people, friends or whomever, family, and person, whatever that I would piece out from, it was that I, it hurt. 50:33.572 --> 50:33.792 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 50:34.537 --> 50:37.821 [SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't want to hurt and I didn't know how to deal with her and I didn't not to feel her. 50:38.662 --> 50:43.588 [SPEAKER_01]: So I would make up stories about them. 50:43.988 --> 50:45.991 [SPEAKER_00]: Could give me one example just for our audience. 50:46.653 --> 50:50.055 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so friendships, I don't want to use names. 50:50.075 --> 50:55.077 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm just, you know, but I'll just say from my past, how to person who'd been in my life. 50:55.137 --> 50:57.338 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, again, I moved a lot. 50:58.219 --> 51:05.502 [SPEAKER_01]: In my, to my seventh and eighth grade year, I moved to four different states, alone. 51:06.503 --> 51:08.424 [SPEAKER_01]: So I moved a lot. 51:10.160 --> 51:14.744 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have people long-term in my life other than certain family members, right? 51:15.565 --> 51:18.347 [SPEAKER_01]: And that was a fun mess in it of itself. 51:18.967 --> 51:29.816 [SPEAKER_01]: So I, if there was a particular friend that I would leave, I did not keep in contact with people. 51:31.217 --> 51:33.879 [SPEAKER_00]: Granted, it was a little harder back then, but maybe a little harder, yeah. 51:37.906 --> 51:46.536 [SPEAKER_01]: the grief of losing the friendship made me get hardened and I would have to say you know what they weren't actually that great of a friend anyway. 51:47.557 --> 51:49.840 [SPEAKER_01]: They and I would have to come up with 51:51.189 --> 52:08.983 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not that I made things up like completely, but I would have to come up with maybe bumps that we had had previously and I would have to exaggerate the bumps and get in my head and make them worse than they were different than they were. 52:10.283 --> 52:12.344 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, I didn't do this intentionally by the way. 52:12.364 --> 52:18.867 [SPEAKER_01]: I would I'd know even conscious awareness people or humans did this although I heard it in my family all the time I would hear it always. 52:18.887 --> 52:23.709 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like Wait, you're telling that story about what happened at that family thing. 52:24.149 --> 52:24.649 [SPEAKER_01]: I was there. 52:24.669 --> 52:25.690 [SPEAKER_01]: That is not what happened 52:26.650 --> 52:28.133 [SPEAKER_01]: But it would become the narrative. 52:28.473 --> 52:29.996 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, but it would just not what happened. 52:30.657 --> 52:33.482 [SPEAKER_01]: But it would still become the narrative that other people would start telling that story. 52:33.502 --> 52:34.964 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, oh my goodness. 52:35.625 --> 52:36.687 [SPEAKER_01]: And then other people would believe it. 52:36.747 --> 52:39.331 [SPEAKER_01]: And then the person telling the story believed it. 52:40.539 --> 52:42.141 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh my gosh, this happens. 52:42.521 --> 52:44.304 [SPEAKER_01]: Now I watched that happen growing up. 52:44.884 --> 52:56.879 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I took that, not from the pain, it is of being the person who now the stories are being told about who is the villain now that actually wasn't villainous. 52:57.800 --> 53:03.666 [SPEAKER_01]: I took it from like, well, that seems to work again unconsciously, and I started doing the same thing. 53:03.706 --> 53:14.856 [SPEAKER_01]: So now that friend was actually not that creative a friend and they did this or said this or did this and it's a good thing I'm moving out of this situation as an example. 53:15.637 --> 53:22.643 [SPEAKER_01]: And really, listen underneath of that, I was just really sad and really hurt that I was losing them. 53:24.305 --> 53:29.348 [SPEAKER_01]: and some self-worth issues in there sprinkled on top or deeply layered beneath. 53:31.430 --> 53:39.195 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, philic I wasn't worthy of love anyway, and that they probably were better off without me and would quickly find a friend when I wasn't a good friend anyway. 53:39.655 --> 53:42.377 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was preemptively stacking the deck. 53:43.690 --> 53:45.371 [SPEAKER_01]: in the grief area. 53:46.051 --> 53:49.232 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what happens a lot. 53:49.712 --> 53:51.973 [SPEAKER_01]: You hear this in more situations all the time. 53:52.453 --> 53:57.355 [SPEAKER_01]: When you hear about my boss, but then if you listen long enough, and you're like, so... 53:58.228 --> 54:01.829 [SPEAKER_01]: Five of your bosses didn't say the exact same thing. 54:01.869 --> 54:04.449 [SPEAKER_01]: We're in very different careers or whatever. 54:04.469 --> 54:07.870 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we hear and see people do this all the time. 54:08.710 --> 54:16.972 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that something that I've realized is that every relationship has a ceiling. 54:18.532 --> 54:21.113 [SPEAKER_01]: That is not because 54:21.755 --> 54:34.694 [SPEAKER_01]: the relationship itself has a ceiling, didn't get us because I do think, and how wonderful it is it is it to be it where we're at now, where we know we can actually grow up and grow further with people along the way. 54:34.714 --> 54:35.936 [SPEAKER_00]: Build more stories. 54:37.237 --> 54:44.761 [SPEAKER_01]: And it looks like a good thing and so many people in our life now we've been doing the work long enough that we've kind of grown with and leveled up with. 54:45.441 --> 54:57.207 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really amazing, but so again it's the ceiling isn't because relationships by nature have a ceiling, but because every individual, every individual person that makes up the relationship has a ceiling. 54:59.369 --> 55:03.351 [SPEAKER_01]: And that ceiling is what are they willing to confront within themselves? 55:05.302 --> 55:07.963 [SPEAKER_01]: So we see this in mind change. 55:08.424 --> 55:15.907 [SPEAKER_01]: We've seen this even, this is a pretty intentional, pretty deep community, but we've seen people sealing out time and time again. 55:16.568 --> 55:21.830 [SPEAKER_01]: And this does not mean they are not good people, or they're not doing the work, or whatever. 55:22.351 --> 55:31.796 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, and sometimes it's been so much growth and so much change that they're like, ah, and they haven't been maybe integrating or calibrating. 55:33.514 --> 55:35.516 [SPEAKER_01]: at the level that they've needed to over the years. 55:36.357 --> 55:39.040 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it all kind of shows up in one big thing. 55:39.180 --> 55:40.461 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they're like, I'm out. 55:40.481 --> 55:41.863 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm out. 55:42.544 --> 55:47.929 [SPEAKER_01]: And they have to make it about people or I make it about the work or something, right? 55:48.650 --> 55:50.592 [SPEAKER_01]: Just because we tend to do that. 55:52.394 --> 55:56.038 [SPEAKER_01]: But when you're surrounded by people who value honesty, 55:56.906 --> 56:04.964 [SPEAKER_01]: integrity, radical responsibility, personal responsibility, the looking inward in the beginning everything feels wonderful. 56:05.832 --> 56:07.333 [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. 56:07.353 --> 56:12.397 [SPEAKER_01]: And we hear this a lot in the community, like, I wish I hadn't been around people like this my whole life. 56:13.217 --> 56:30.569 [SPEAKER_01]: But until that honesty begins shining light on a place, on a little tender, a little hiding place inside that you that still honestly just feels unsafe to examine. 56:31.414 --> 56:54.400 [SPEAKER_01]: or you're in a particular system, it could be a family system, it could be a marriage, it could be a work, situation could be a religious system, where you get to a point, where you're like, if I continue to grow in this way, I'm gonna lose something really important to me. 56:55.780 --> 56:59.121 [SPEAKER_01]: And then people will piece out, back out. 56:59.761 --> 57:02.443 [SPEAKER_01]: not they don't know they're doing it, they don't know they're doing it. 57:03.023 --> 57:07.986 [SPEAKER_01]: But it hit on a tender spot, on a careful spot. 57:08.326 --> 57:19.533 [SPEAKER_01]: And it gets touchy and then it starts to feel so threatening that they have to make a choice and they choose the system. 57:21.052 --> 57:22.532 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's nothing wrong with that. 57:22.793 --> 57:24.173 [SPEAKER_01]: There's really nothing wrong with that. 57:24.813 --> 57:27.594 [SPEAKER_01]: But people have to know that they're doing it. 57:27.614 --> 57:28.914 [SPEAKER_00]: Because they're hitting their ceiling. 57:28.994 --> 57:30.415 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they're hitting a ceiling. 57:31.035 --> 57:37.457 [SPEAKER_01]: And if we don't know that we're hitting our own ceiling, we are going to blame everything and everyone else around us. 57:37.997 --> 57:47.720 [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone's going to need to vilify it and create problems around it and tell stories about it that fit our narrative or we won't do it. 57:48.508 --> 58:11.475 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the difference between someone who goes straight into that versus I recognize like they've come to a mature place they've done enough work they have enough integrity where like I recognize where I'm at and there's still places I need to grow I'm going to take a break from x y or z you the situation this place this community this whatever 58:12.375 --> 58:28.980 [SPEAKER_00]: So that I can take some more time reflecting on myself growing and then I'm going to come back into this relationship, this community, this situation, this job, this whatever, with a higher ceiling. 58:29.666 --> 58:38.614 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes, and that's a listen, it takes a lot of work to get there, and it really still takes other relationships. 58:38.794 --> 58:52.585 [SPEAKER_01]: I, it's hard pressed to do that alone alone, because you're in a complete echo chamber, or God forbid you find another person who thinks they're in the exact same situation as you, and they become your sounding board. 58:52.605 --> 58:54.027 [SPEAKER_01]: That's just a different echo chamber. 58:54.707 --> 59:06.611 [SPEAKER_01]: It's totally, yeah, it's a total echo chamber and then now you guys have to tell stories to each other about your experiences to get on the same page and it just rewrites the entire history. 59:07.291 --> 59:17.234 [SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, like you're probably not going on the same trajectory as that person, but you have to tell yourself the story to make it okay, to make your decision. 59:17.774 --> 59:20.355 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not complete maturity. 59:20.815 --> 59:22.316 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not actually complete healing. 59:23.056 --> 59:31.399 [SPEAKER_01]: If you have to tell yourself a different story than reality, to make it okay that you're making the decision that you're making, that's not growth. 59:31.439 --> 59:36.502 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, most people in that situation aren't aware that they're going against reality. 59:36.642 --> 59:47.386 [SPEAKER_00]: It becomes their reality because what we believe, what we remember, quote unquote, what we think, what we experienced, even if it's a perceived experience or a 59:52.613 --> 01:00:15.224 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so there's like a path I try to commit to is like, this is uncomfortable, so that means maybe there's something here for me, right, and the other says, there's discomfort here, it can possibly be about me, you know, it's got to be about you or the situation or the thing, right. 01:00:17.605 --> 01:00:32.606 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, this is where the subconscious mind is fascinating because even if we know a lot about the our subconscious, sometimes it's difficult to remember that our subconscious is always protecting an identity. 01:00:33.647 --> 01:00:42.432 [SPEAKER_01]: And we may think we have one identity, but it will always be protecting the actual identity. 01:00:43.432 --> 01:00:52.677 [SPEAKER_01]: So if acknowledging my own behavior threatens who I believe that I am, then my subconscious is often going to work incredibly hard to protect that identity. 01:00:53.958 --> 01:00:59.001 [SPEAKER_01]: So let me clarify, this doesn't necessarily mean that someone is lying. 01:01:00.845 --> 01:01:06.930 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, many people genuinely begin remembering events differently. 01:01:09.204 --> 01:01:09.665 [SPEAKER_01]: we do that. 01:01:09.685 --> 01:01:15.928 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we've talked about this, like here numerous times and tons of other times in other scenarios. 01:01:17.269 --> 01:01:19.610 [SPEAKER_01]: But that has to be done. 01:01:20.751 --> 01:01:33.037 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're in a, this is more about you than it is about me, you have to reinterpret situations, conversations, you have to assign motives. 01:01:34.698 --> 01:01:35.078 [SPEAKER_01]: You have 01:01:38.663 --> 01:01:51.009 [SPEAKER_01]: that it's like, I'm doing this and it is really mostly because it's about you, then there has to be a motive for you to make the decision that you're makes, so you have to assign motives. 01:01:52.430 --> 01:02:07.117 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, they're not intentionally being deceptive, but because this subconscious is trying to make reality fit, the identity that it's protecting, that's what's inevitably gonna happen. 01:02:07.572 --> 01:02:12.576 [SPEAKER_00]: and people end up actually believing the story of whatever that is. 01:02:12.956 --> 01:02:13.697 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. 01:02:13.937 --> 01:02:15.358 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's because they have proof. 01:02:15.598 --> 01:02:15.779 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 01:02:15.839 --> 01:02:24.806 [SPEAKER_01]: Because now they're seeing hearing and feeling into that revised conversation or scenario or whatever. 01:02:25.286 --> 01:02:28.128 [SPEAKER_01]: Because we've talked about this many times, but memory is not a recording. 01:02:28.649 --> 01:02:34.253 [SPEAKER_01]: It is reconstructed, reorganized, added to every time we access it. 01:02:37.035 --> 01:02:45.158 [SPEAKER_01]: a memory, and our intention is to find things to give us a reason to leave. 01:02:46.358 --> 01:02:52.480 [SPEAKER_01]: We will rewrite that with a different narrative, based on our current narrative. 01:02:53.192 --> 01:03:15.602 [SPEAKER_00]: I do want to say because we talk a lot about like rewriting things naturally in a negative context, we also do this positively and like for instance, if you can think of just a super simple example is Christmas morning when I was eight years old and I got this like thing that I was really excited about, right? 01:03:16.242 --> 01:03:18.623 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we can be like, oh, that was a great Christmas morning. 01:03:18.963 --> 01:03:29.988 [SPEAKER_00]: But if we like 10 years, 20 years later, recognize like, oh my goodness, I didn't realize that my dad had lost his job and they still got me this gift and did it up, it makes you even more grateful. 01:03:30.028 --> 01:03:37.771 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you put that back into that little eight-year-old view and it creates this like even more grateful memory you. 01:03:38.231 --> 01:03:38.591 [SPEAKER_00]: And so this 01:03:40.752 --> 01:03:53.961 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, you could go back and be like, oh, it was guilty and I knew that there was something wrong and I, yeah, they weren't very happy that Christmas morning and you could literally rewrite that whole thing that is not the way the child experienced it. 01:03:54.021 --> 01:03:54.261 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. 01:03:54.601 --> 01:04:02.026 [SPEAKER_01]: But now you believe it and you're putting that on that little child because of a current changed narrative and understanding. 01:04:03.087 --> 01:04:10.492 [SPEAKER_01]: So our beliefs, current beliefs and identities are always going to be influencing what we remember. 01:04:11.133 --> 01:04:13.314 [SPEAKER_01]: Our emotions influence what we remember. 01:04:14.034 --> 01:04:18.197 [SPEAKER_01]: And our belief systems influence what we remember. 01:04:19.338 --> 01:04:22.000 [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes people don't leave. 01:04:23.564 --> 01:04:39.211 [SPEAKER_01]: you, like if you're finding that you're losing, quote, unquote, losing things or relationships or whatever as you're doing the healing work, they're not often leaving you because you've become unhealthy. 01:04:39.991 --> 01:04:47.315 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes they leave because your commitment to honesty has become a mirror that they're not ready to look into. 01:04:47.335 --> 01:04:47.935 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:04:49.113 --> 01:04:56.516 [SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe they were doing it for a while and they were looking into that mirror and again, now that mirror's reflecting something, they don't like very much. 01:04:57.116 --> 01:05:00.777 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, ooh, this is a little too revealing, I'm gonna need to be out of here. 01:05:01.137 --> 01:05:07.099 [SPEAKER_01]: And listen, before everyone starts thinking like, oh, yes, that's my ex. 01:05:07.900 --> 01:05:12.581 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's all be careful, us included, because here's the humbling truth. 01:05:13.742 --> 01:05:17.083 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes we are the ones reaching our ceilings. 01:05:19.307 --> 01:05:25.110 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, between us, sometimes you can't say something that exposes a blind spot in me. 01:05:25.130 --> 01:05:32.993 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know that always goes over so well, but you know, sometimes I don't like what you're reflecting. 01:05:33.233 --> 01:05:38.776 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I don't like what I'm hearing or what I'm seeing through your eyes. 01:05:39.937 --> 01:05:46.940 [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes my subconscious wants to protect a particular identity that I'm attached to in the moment. 01:05:48.141 --> 01:06:09.662 [SPEAKER_01]: But this is where integrity really matters, and that's do you have a group of people that you are actively actively cultivating and expecting honesty and integrity with, who know you, who've had history with you and what you're doing. 01:06:11.573 --> 01:06:18.555 [SPEAKER_01]: a group that sees you, they're not the, they're not being a yes man or yes woman to everything you say or do. 01:06:20.076 --> 01:06:32.800 [SPEAKER_01]: And I will say I learned over the years that healing, just like we talked about before, doesn't just automatically create harmony. 01:06:33.560 --> 01:06:37.121 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, healing does not create integrity. 01:06:41.468 --> 01:06:52.072 [SPEAKER_01]: And when everything is easy, and things are going well, then it's relatively easy to appear honest, and appear like you're someone of deep integrity. 01:06:53.032 --> 01:07:05.597 [SPEAKER_01]: But when growth asks us to admit we're wrong, to apologize, to look closer, to change, to get back into alignment with who we say we are. 01:07:06.897 --> 01:07:28.142 [SPEAKER_01]: That's where integrity is really tested, and I will say in those moments, if you feel the need to move away from a situation, a system, a person, or a group, do you have the honesty and integrity to explain why, rather than just like I'm out. 01:07:28.563 --> 01:07:34.424 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because there's a lot of stuff out there in the self-help world, it's like you don't need to explain, you don't need to explain why you're leaving, just leave. 01:07:35.859 --> 01:07:36.379 [SPEAKER_01]: Just get out. 01:07:36.699 --> 01:07:37.500 [SPEAKER_01]: They're toxic. 01:07:37.540 --> 01:07:38.680 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a toxic system. 01:07:38.720 --> 01:07:44.763 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a toxic environment like you don't have just you don't have to explain just get out. 01:07:46.504 --> 01:07:54.228 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you've spent years are possibly a life built something with somebody. 01:07:56.065 --> 01:08:14.202 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're just going to like, sorry, you're toxic, I'm out without explaining why without sitting down and like being able to articulate reality then there's, I think there's an issue with integrity there. 01:08:15.122 --> 01:08:24.328 [SPEAKER_01]: And I will say it's something else, this can be really challenging because sometimes you've just made up the mind, you've created, you've thought about this so much and you've overthought about it. 01:08:24.968 --> 01:08:30.912 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's been scary and then you finally worked up the courage and you're like, I'm going to leave, I'm out, right? 01:08:31.772 --> 01:08:34.994 [SPEAKER_01]: And then the other person's like, whoa, wait, I actually want to work on this. 01:08:36.235 --> 01:08:37.576 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what's going on? 01:08:37.676 --> 01:08:38.637 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to work on this. 01:08:38.857 --> 01:08:41.038 [SPEAKER_01]: I want there to be resolution here. 01:08:45.587 --> 01:08:48.709 [SPEAKER_01]: They program, because this is not the program for somebody. 01:08:49.389 --> 01:08:59.474 [SPEAKER_01]: For some people in some relationships and in a lot of marriages where it's like threat equals temporary behavior change and then yes, and then it goes back to the same. 01:08:59.514 --> 01:09:01.135 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not talking about that. 01:09:01.775 --> 01:09:10.120 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm talking about, you know, it could be a relationship, it could be a friendship, it could be a work relationship, it could be a lot of different things, right? 01:09:10.820 --> 01:09:14.222 [SPEAKER_01]: But if the person's like, whoa, wait, 01:09:15.002 --> 01:09:24.633 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not exactly sure what happened here and you're like, you should know and because you've got the entire history and narrative changed already because of how much you've been thinking about it. 01:09:25.133 --> 01:09:28.537 [SPEAKER_01]: But you never communicated that you were ever thinking anything about that. 01:09:28.557 --> 01:09:32.942 [SPEAKER_00]: It means you're living in a false reality because it's a reality you've made up with them. 01:09:33.262 --> 01:09:33.582 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:09:33.643 --> 01:09:35.785 [SPEAKER_00]: They've never, they never got to come into. 01:09:35.925 --> 01:09:39.808 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so you're like, whoa, wait, can we work on this? 01:09:39.868 --> 01:09:45.052 [SPEAKER_01]: Can we like sit here for a little bit and discuss? 01:09:45.893 --> 01:09:53.579 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you just cut and run from everything that doesn't work for you, you're, that's probably like, 01:09:55.227 --> 01:09:56.888 [SPEAKER_01]: that you're avoiding, that's what you're doing. 01:09:57.108 --> 01:09:58.369 [SPEAKER_01]: You're really avoiding, you're running. 01:09:58.829 --> 01:09:59.890 [SPEAKER_00]: So you've had your ceiling. 01:10:00.330 --> 01:10:04.053 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're not growing and you're not actually honoring your own growth. 01:10:04.653 --> 01:10:16.561 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of unhealthy stuff out there in the personal development world that's being, that's actually creating this environment that's like, I don't need to tell you, I'm just out, this doesn't work for me. 01:10:17.722 --> 01:10:20.423 [SPEAKER_01]: You're not serving me anymore. 01:10:20.463 --> 01:10:22.144 [SPEAKER_01]: This relationship is not serving me anymore. 01:10:22.184 --> 01:10:22.985 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm out. 01:10:26.520 --> 01:10:46.607 [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, I don't want to build any relationship where that's an option for somebody to be that to do that like I did that before I know the hurt and I know it's a coping and I know the underneath stuff that that comes from that's never actually a good like fully healthy 01:10:48.153 --> 01:10:51.276 [SPEAKER_01]: result or solution, I should say. 01:10:51.756 --> 01:11:03.607 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, yes, I understand some of you have been through that and have heard that language and we're not talking about that particular program where someone's just going to behave your modify for a little bit and then continue to do the same thing. 01:11:04.068 --> 01:11:05.089 [SPEAKER_01]: But like if someone's, 01:11:06.830 --> 01:11:13.114 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're realizing, you've been sitting and thinking about leaving for a very, very, very long time. 01:11:13.414 --> 01:11:27.323 [SPEAKER_01]: You've wanted to cut and run for a while, and you've been planning and you've been thinking and you've been figuring all that out, but you've never let the other person know, then they live in a different reality. 01:11:27.803 --> 01:11:30.005 [SPEAKER_01]: You've been creating a different reality with them. 01:11:31.390 --> 01:11:37.155 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're now making a decision out of a reality, they've not been invited to. 01:11:37.915 --> 01:11:39.677 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not very fair, actually. 01:11:41.098 --> 01:11:46.882 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, but such a frequent thing to happen in the name of growth and healing. 01:11:48.183 --> 01:11:53.047 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that, yeah, we just wanna talk about it because it happens, we've done it. 01:11:53.588 --> 01:11:56.290 [SPEAKER_01]: It's happened to us, it's happened to round us. 01:11:56.950 --> 01:12:03.012 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, it's just one of those things that we think is really important to talk about. 01:12:03.672 --> 01:12:03.852 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:12:04.032 --> 01:12:05.473 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah. 01:12:05.973 --> 01:12:08.394 [SPEAKER_00]: So, obviously, do you have to leave people, no? 01:12:08.414 --> 01:12:09.054 [SPEAKER_00]: Right? 01:12:09.074 --> 01:12:10.754 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's not always the answer. 01:12:11.254 --> 01:12:13.015 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's the everything else. 01:12:13.035 --> 01:12:14.015 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, let's discuss. 01:12:14.095 --> 01:12:15.256 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go a little bit deeper. 01:12:15.316 --> 01:12:22.538 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's figure out how the relationship can serve one another to help each other continue to grow and level up. 01:12:22.958 --> 01:12:46.973 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and this is like this is the danger out there around cancel culture ghosting somebody like it's a really really common coping mechanism and again, I'll say it again in a lot of personal development healing quote unquote modalities that is supported through various language 01:12:48.035 --> 01:12:53.038 [SPEAKER_01]: And I would counter that is not ideal. 01:12:53.798 --> 01:12:58.601 [SPEAKER_01]: It is not like emotional maturity. 01:12:58.621 --> 01:13:06.125 [SPEAKER_01]: It might be a signpost and a stopping ground on your journey. 01:13:06.825 --> 01:13:09.667 [SPEAKER_01]: But that is something that is eventually going to have to be. 01:13:12.011 --> 01:13:19.654 [SPEAKER_01]: met with curiosity and accountability at some point if you're doing that. 01:13:20.015 --> 01:13:31.920 [SPEAKER_01]: So again, I think another danger of personal growth is the language and assuming that every uncomfortable situation is toxic. 01:13:32.940 --> 01:13:36.802 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a really unhealthy way of looking at things. 01:13:36.822 --> 01:13:38.142 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that that's a lack of 01:13:39.443 --> 01:13:46.588 [SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of the, for especially in the current world with, there's a lot of stuff out there. 01:13:46.628 --> 01:13:58.437 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of things happening that are not okay between men and women, the way that men have been showing up for the last 30, plus years is getting seemingly worse. 01:13:58.557 --> 01:14:05.162 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I get that, um, maybe even longer, probably, well, I mean, get thousands of 01:14:09.942 --> 01:14:34.401 [SPEAKER_00]: especially the last couple of generations how men show up and yet like it doesn't mean that all men are toxic or everything around toxic masculinity like there is some really there are some really really good men and good people out there and so when you put a label on it it does the whole rewriting thing where you actually you're particular active in system 01:14:37.003 --> 01:14:53.791 [SPEAKER_00]: good men, good relationships, good bosses, good marriages, good children, good whatever, it avoids that because our RAS is focused on everything else because of the narratives because of the stories and so everything's kind of toxic. 01:14:54.011 --> 01:14:56.573 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we miss out on what's good. 01:14:57.613 --> 01:15:12.302 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're looking for the outside to change before we're willing to change the inside and that is not the way real growth, real transformation, real healing happens because growth and healing by nature is uncomfortable. 01:15:13.022 --> 01:15:22.728 [SPEAKER_01]: And so if you've not met yourself in the decisions you make when you get uncomfortable, then that you're just going to react. 01:15:23.526 --> 01:15:30.110 [SPEAKER_00]: I very much was my own worst enemy in this realm when it comes to toxic masculinity. 01:15:30.530 --> 01:15:39.215 [SPEAKER_00]: I felt that the world was full of toxic masculinity men out there and I like didn't engage on a deep level. 01:15:40.576 --> 01:15:51.123 [SPEAKER_00]: in a lot of ways, but the truth is is I wasn't in touch with my own depth love for the masculine part of me. 01:15:52.664 --> 01:15:58.909 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, until I dealt with that, now I'm like, oh my goodness, I'm finding 01:15:59.589 --> 01:16:24.641 [SPEAKER_00]: so many men and so many people out there that are like really good people and really good men because I've found that in me and so again it's what I'm looking for it's what I'm attracting it's what I'm it's not just like law of attraction no it's let's just call it law of healing like when you heal you will find other relationships that are also healed or healing and if you've hit your ceiling you will find other people who are bumping their head up 01:16:27.998 --> 01:16:30.219 [SPEAKER_01]: And at that time, they are, they are your people. 01:16:31.059 --> 01:16:34.960 [SPEAKER_01]: But healthy people healing people adapt. 01:16:36.061 --> 01:16:36.261 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:16:36.701 --> 01:16:37.361 [SPEAKER_01]: Adapt. 01:16:38.141 --> 01:16:47.444 [SPEAKER_01]: Unhealthy patterns will resist adaption, adaptation, and they will resist that. 01:16:48.105 --> 01:16:50.505 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's how, that's sometimes how we know that they're there. 01:16:50.866 --> 01:16:51.866 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the beauty of the work. 01:16:51.926 --> 01:16:54.747 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like when you hit a lot of resistance, 01:16:55.547 --> 01:16:58.349 [SPEAKER_01]: Rather than cut and run, that's where we dig in. 01:16:58.929 --> 01:17:01.250 [SPEAKER_01]: That's where we go deeper, we get more curious. 01:17:01.310 --> 01:17:03.432 [SPEAKER_01]: We show up for the work, right? 01:17:04.392 --> 01:17:10.215 [SPEAKER_01]: One extreme is if someone doesn't like my growth, they're toxic. 01:17:10.236 --> 01:17:14.258 [SPEAKER_01]: And the other is if someone doesn't like my growth, I need to shrink. 01:17:15.619 --> 01:17:22.683 [SPEAKER_01]: And in the middle is, if someone doesn't like my growth, I'm going to show up and see what part of that is mine. 01:17:22.703 --> 01:17:26.866 [SPEAKER_01]: And what part of that is where they're hitting their ceiling at this time. 01:17:27.627 --> 01:17:27.847 [SPEAKER_01]: Right? 01:17:27.867 --> 01:17:31.069 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the truth here is a lot more nuanced. 01:17:32.559 --> 01:17:33.420 [SPEAKER_00]: That is, that is. 01:17:33.640 --> 01:17:36.362 [SPEAKER_01]: It always is, isn't it? 01:17:37.043 --> 01:17:39.725 [SPEAKER_00]: So how, you're talking about these differences. 01:17:40.046 --> 01:17:46.731 [SPEAKER_00]: So briefly tell me, how do you know the difference between this whole, like, well, the two extremes you just gave? 01:17:47.012 --> 01:17:47.192 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:17:49.643 --> 01:18:04.671 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think this is where people can get into trouble, sometimes someone challenges us because they're controlling, but sometimes they're challenging us because they genuinely love us, right? 01:18:05.091 --> 01:18:08.032 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, how would you know the difference between the two? 01:18:09.293 --> 01:18:16.155 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's important because it's not the disagreement that's the problem, right? 01:18:16.195 --> 01:18:19.076 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the action necessarily that's the problem. 01:18:20.256 --> 01:18:23.777 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, you and I disagree all the time, right? 01:18:23.937 --> 01:18:31.920 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that that's a healthy aspect of what we have because we're not looking to be 01:18:34.113 --> 01:18:47.929 [SPEAKER_00]: I used to want to be same-minded, and I basically succumbed to whatever your final decision was or your belief was or your, and that was because I wanted to avoid conflict at all stages. 01:18:47.949 --> 01:18:51.833 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then it, in me, it was like, you're not trustworthy at all. 01:18:51.853 --> 01:18:53.355 [SPEAKER_01]: You have no self. 01:18:54.075 --> 01:19:01.097 [SPEAKER_01]: and I felt suffocated and felt like it was, I was being absorbed, and that doesn't work. 01:19:01.257 --> 01:19:03.937 [SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn't work the other way around either, right? 01:19:04.337 --> 01:19:11.919 [SPEAKER_01]: So it wouldn't work for me to get, and I tried at certain points to get super boundryed up and it only made you feel like you're being further pushed away. 01:19:11.939 --> 01:19:13.220 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll totally made it worse. 01:19:14.120 --> 01:19:20.221 [SPEAKER_01]: And it wouldn't have been good for you to be like, fine, I'm just gonna do my own thing then, 01:19:23.962 --> 01:19:24.483 [SPEAKER_01]: the enemy. 01:19:24.503 --> 01:19:26.164 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, go independent. 01:19:26.424 --> 01:19:26.664 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 01:19:27.145 --> 01:19:30.588 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we needed to dive in and do our own work, right? 01:19:31.108 --> 01:19:41.897 [SPEAKER_01]: And for this, for us, our relationship, it's really good and healthy, I think, for us to disagree, because if I trust that I'm doing the work, 01:19:42.658 --> 01:19:52.503 [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm going deep and I'm meeting myself with curiosity and I'm also have other people in my life who I'm inviting into that and I know you're doing the same. 01:19:52.523 --> 01:19:58.747 [SPEAKER_01]: Then I know that you're not just disagreeing with me to confirm a narrative that you have or an identity. 01:19:59.647 --> 01:20:10.359 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that it's like showing up because the system that we've created, we both have committed to radical transformation and an evolution. 01:20:10.879 --> 01:20:13.582 [SPEAKER_01]: We're both committed to that and we talk about that. 01:20:14.103 --> 01:20:15.144 [SPEAKER_01]: So when we disagree, 01:20:16.505 --> 01:20:23.232 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think you're questioning the system that we've both committed to. 01:20:24.253 --> 01:20:38.626 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that, okay, this is something that I think we should look at, because maybe it doesn't work for you, and that's really good for me to know because you're part of the system, so I need to know what does work for you. 01:20:39.327 --> 01:20:39.568 [SPEAKER_01]: right? 01:20:40.249 --> 01:20:48.201 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just a really different way that we've learned to do this because if disagreement meant that a relationship was unhealthy. 01:20:49.345 --> 01:20:51.327 [SPEAKER_01]: we would we did it that way. 01:20:52.087 --> 01:20:53.349 [SPEAKER_01]: That did not work either. 01:20:53.369 --> 01:20:55.831 [SPEAKER_01]: That was that was a mess. 01:20:56.351 --> 01:21:11.484 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and disagreement again it's the it's not the pendulum swing of like disagreement we fight all the time and never really come to anything or the other side of like we disagree but we just agree to disagree and don't really talk about it and go underground and it's the 01:21:12.485 --> 01:21:35.083 [SPEAKER_00]: I am so confident in who I am and my worth and I'm so confident in who you are and that you're worthy and that you have agency over your life and and all of that and we can come together and sometimes we don't agree on something but we can talk it out and we can be there and and it's pushing each other to grow more rather than shrinking each other down or 01:21:41.313 --> 01:21:42.814 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not a red flag. 01:21:43.354 --> 01:21:54.377 [SPEAKER_01]: It shouldn't be, like in a relationship or a system or an entity that is committed to growth, there are going to be disagreements. 01:21:54.457 --> 01:21:55.478 [SPEAKER_01]: That's actually a, 01:21:56.838 --> 01:22:01.620 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a healthy sign of a relationship, right? 01:22:02.260 --> 01:22:06.301 [SPEAKER_01]: So no, disagreement, disagreement isn't unhealthy. 01:22:07.362 --> 01:22:13.124 [SPEAKER_01]: Someone needing time to adjust to the new version, right? 01:22:14.364 --> 01:22:17.665 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so this is a new version of where we're going. 01:22:18.185 --> 01:22:19.366 [SPEAKER_01]: I need some time to adjust. 01:22:19.686 --> 01:22:25.908 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's where I'm showing up, that's rubbing for me or whatever, that's not unhealthy. 01:22:27.189 --> 01:22:44.785 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, just because someone feels scared, because a relationship is changing, that's not unhealthy either, because I think about it, like for us, if you've been married to someone for twenty some years, like we have, and all of a sudden they're setting boundaries that they've never set before. 01:22:46.327 --> 01:22:47.448 [SPEAKER_01]: That can feel unsettling. 01:22:47.468 --> 01:22:50.930 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how to react to that. 01:22:50.950 --> 01:22:55.454 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that someone's doing something wrong, but the relationship is changing. 01:22:56.074 --> 01:23:02.259 [SPEAKER_01]: And like we've said, change can feel threatening it causes someone to re-adjust. 01:23:02.499 --> 01:23:07.463 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the feeling of uncomfortability isn't really the issue. 01:23:08.158 --> 01:23:11.140 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, and growth is uncomfortable, which we've established. 01:23:11.300 --> 01:23:12.881 [SPEAKER_01]: It is meant to be. 01:23:13.421 --> 01:23:16.883 [SPEAKER_01]: The question isn't like, wait, are they uncomfortable? 01:23:17.304 --> 01:23:20.826 [SPEAKER_01]: The question is, what do they do with the discomfort? 01:23:21.426 --> 01:23:29.811 [SPEAKER_00]: This is actually very much part of the topic for the Saturdays mentoring call with our community. 01:23:30.092 --> 01:23:35.155 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this difference between uncomfortable and safety and freedom and all of that? 01:23:35.175 --> 01:23:35.235 [SPEAKER_00]: So, 01:23:35.763 --> 01:23:43.129 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think a great hallmark that we try to help teach people is when there's uncomfortability, do they get curious? 01:23:43.309 --> 01:23:44.850 [SPEAKER_01]: Do they ask questions? 01:23:45.610 --> 01:23:49.193 [SPEAKER_01]: Do they say, like, help me understand what's changing for you? 01:23:49.213 --> 01:23:54.657 [SPEAKER_01]: Or being able to show up and be like, so I noticed in myself, 01:23:55.678 --> 01:24:10.447 [SPEAKER_01]: This was uncomfortable and so I went in there deeply and I'm realizing this is where I, you know, I don't know how to navigate this yet or I've bumped up against something an old pattern or this is revealing something in me. 01:24:11.068 --> 01:24:12.068 [SPEAKER_01]: That's growth. 01:24:12.749 --> 01:24:14.230 [SPEAKER_01]: That's really healthy. 01:24:14.250 --> 01:24:16.051 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't have to get it right immediately. 01:24:16.711 --> 01:24:22.555 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and getting it right sometimes involves both parties adjusting. 01:24:23.015 --> 01:24:23.215 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:24:23.516 --> 01:24:36.747 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, but if someone cuts in run, you know, or they just or label it or get really harsh around a boundary, that doesn't allow there to be space for what does work, right? 01:24:37.127 --> 01:24:44.773 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think real growth and real healing is that ability to be open. 01:24:45.174 --> 01:24:46.635 [SPEAKER_00]: So what does it look like then when 01:24:51.174 --> 01:24:57.258 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, again, something I feel like I've noticed over the years is people who are committed to growth. 01:24:58.419 --> 01:25:00.501 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, they're not always going to agree with you. 01:25:00.661 --> 01:25:14.190 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't mean that they're going to challenge you, necessarily, but I think that they're willing to examine themselves in how they deal with the challenge. 01:25:14.791 --> 01:25:15.591 [SPEAKER_01]: It's that makes sense. 01:25:19.934 --> 01:25:25.955 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, is there something I'm not seeing, could I be contributing to this? 01:25:26.896 --> 01:25:28.196 [SPEAKER_01]: What can I learn here? 01:25:28.216 --> 01:25:30.416 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a really good one. 01:25:30.456 --> 01:25:31.497 [SPEAKER_01]: What can I learn here? 01:25:32.197 --> 01:25:34.697 [SPEAKER_01]: What can, then that's all we can take. 01:25:34.737 --> 01:25:36.198 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're like, what do you need to learn here? 01:25:36.718 --> 01:25:38.258 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you need to learn from this situation? 01:25:38.738 --> 01:25:40.719 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, what do I need to learn here? 01:25:40.859 --> 01:25:44.180 [SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully, if it's a healthy relationship, I bring 01:25:46.060 --> 01:25:49.287 [SPEAKER_01]: I realized I need to grow in here and what I need to learn here. 01:25:49.307 --> 01:25:53.516 [SPEAKER_00]: It at least opens the door for them to be a little bit more self-reflective as well. 01:25:54.115 --> 01:25:59.839 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, people who aren't ready yet do the opposite. 01:26:00.019 --> 01:26:04.422 [SPEAKER_01]: So in those situations, every explanation stays outside of themselves. 01:26:05.363 --> 01:26:07.924 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like you've changed. 01:26:08.725 --> 01:26:10.906 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm gonna do XYRZ, right? 01:26:11.047 --> 01:26:16.470 [SPEAKER_01]: Or, you know, you've become selfish or... 01:26:16.490 --> 01:26:18.932 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like you only focus on you now. 01:26:19.234 --> 01:26:30.163 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you've just been brainwashed or like the this has changed and I don't like the direction it's going and I'm not comfortable with it. 01:26:30.383 --> 01:26:32.485 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, you're the problem. 01:26:33.485 --> 01:26:36.448 [SPEAKER_01]: Now listen, could someone actually become selfish? 01:26:37.048 --> 01:26:37.308 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 01:26:38.409 --> 01:26:48.099 [SPEAKER_00]: Could some or maybe it was there the whole time and it was being fronted with like I'm just pleasing you but really deep down, you know, there's a lot of different things. 01:26:48.259 --> 01:26:55.487 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we are not saying that every criticism is invalid like it's absolutely not criticism 01:26:58.370 --> 01:27:01.536 [SPEAKER_01]: criticism isn't ideal, it's not ideal. 01:27:02.679 --> 01:27:04.803 [SPEAKER_01]: But there is constructive criticism. 01:27:05.303 --> 01:27:08.570 [SPEAKER_01]: But when bringing constructive criticism is the person able to be like, 01:27:09.437 --> 01:27:20.041 [SPEAKER_01]: actually I think bringing this because this isn't fitting a particular narrative I have where it's making me uncomfortable, it's asking me to grow in a way that I don't actually want to grow or change in a way I don't want to change. 01:27:21.321 --> 01:27:23.502 [SPEAKER_01]: The question is whether they're willing to stay in the conversation. 01:27:23.782 --> 01:27:24.422 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I think. 01:27:24.882 --> 01:27:34.226 [SPEAKER_01]: Are they willing to explore reality together or are they demanding that reality conform to the story that they already need to believe 01:27:38.675 --> 01:27:42.358 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so again, we're talking about like, what is the issue? 01:27:42.378 --> 01:27:43.178 [SPEAKER_00]: What is in the issue? 01:27:43.779 --> 01:27:52.886 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's not really if someone agrees with you, it's whether they're willing to grow with reality. 01:27:53.306 --> 01:27:55.548 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or then it's a new reality sometimes. 01:27:56.609 --> 01:27:57.149 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah. 01:27:57.289 --> 01:28:03.554 [SPEAKER_01]: And bring forth like, here's this is very common in therapy models. 01:28:03.674 --> 01:28:08.118 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that there's some good that this can be good is the story I'm telling myself is. 01:28:09.843 --> 01:28:11.063 [SPEAKER_01]: That's really revealing. 01:28:11.824 --> 01:28:22.827 [SPEAKER_01]: If you can come together and be like, the story I'm telling myself is, you've been this and this and this and this and this and this and that when this happened, I felt like you meant this about it. 01:28:22.887 --> 01:28:25.928 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, this, here's the story I'm telling myself. 01:28:26.228 --> 01:28:33.570 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't mean that that story isn't necessarily true, but it's your truth. 01:28:34.858 --> 01:28:38.220 [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes our truth isn't the universal truth. 01:28:39.160 --> 01:28:46.063 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think the story I'm telling myself is this as a way of, here's how I got here. 01:28:46.083 --> 01:28:51.426 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that as humans we all have our own little truths and like, 01:28:52.897 --> 01:28:59.921 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe every one scenario, we get lucky enough to, like, dip our toes into universal truths. 01:28:59.941 --> 01:29:11.748 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we come back to our realities and our perceptions and our, you know, so yeah, it's an interesting relation to the whole world and to how we relate to life in general. 01:29:12.169 --> 01:29:16.931 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I think that's having a group, you know, that you can bounce things off of. 01:29:16.951 --> 01:29:20.614 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, something happened recently is a very big thing for me. 01:29:21.394 --> 01:29:22.595 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, really difficult. 01:29:22.895 --> 01:29:43.105 [SPEAKER_01]: And I, like, I needed to say the story I was telling myself to a group of, you know, a small group, but a group of people who really know me well, who know my commitment to grow, who know the mind change, you know, language they've done it, they, you know, all of that stuff. 01:29:43.125 --> 01:29:45.326 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, okay, so listen, let me just tell you the story. 01:29:46.186 --> 01:30:04.235 [SPEAKER_01]: This is my version of the story, but this is the story, and it was so good because I have cultivated a group of people that are not like, you know, oh man, like, they are wrong because of this, this, this and this. 01:30:05.319 --> 01:30:07.300 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like all four things you told them. 01:30:07.560 --> 01:30:09.781 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm all for being a writer die. 01:30:09.981 --> 01:30:12.843 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm that way for a lot of my friends. 01:30:13.263 --> 01:30:16.584 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you're my friends enemy, watch out. 01:30:17.445 --> 01:30:25.028 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I really trust my friends, and you don't become one of my friends enemies if there was not like, grievous action done. 01:30:26.249 --> 01:30:44.296 [SPEAKER_01]: So I, I see a place for that, but this is why I value this group of friends so much is because I said something, you know, and this one particular friend I was talking about, she's like, yeah, but isn't that like, by nature and kind of went into it, and I was like, oh, 01:30:45.256 --> 01:30:47.357 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a really, that's a really good point. 01:30:48.417 --> 01:30:57.600 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not that she wasn't supporting me, but she's also going to, she knows some of the places I would tend to go, some of the things I've struggled with. 01:30:58.060 --> 01:31:00.621 [SPEAKER_01]: She's going to check in with me on those things. 01:31:01.322 --> 01:31:04.883 [SPEAKER_01]: And then, listen, in the end, she's like, that sucks, I'm so sorry that happened. 01:31:05.503 --> 01:31:10.525 [SPEAKER_01]: That feels really bad, and that's kind of, that's a really bad situation. 01:31:11.775 --> 01:31:22.709 [SPEAKER_01]: But through, you know, through the rest, there was a lot of really great conversation asking me to go deeper and, you know, like, hey, I know that this matters to you. 01:31:22.829 --> 01:31:23.470 [SPEAKER_01]: What about this. 01:31:24.211 --> 01:31:28.856 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that that's that's just a really important piece of the puzzle. 01:31:29.577 --> 01:31:35.059 [SPEAKER_01]: And I did not always have that group of people, so if you're out there and you're like, I don't have that group of people. 01:31:35.079 --> 01:31:36.640 [SPEAKER_01]: I get it. 01:31:37.520 --> 01:31:54.226 [SPEAKER_01]: I do say there's that's one of the benefits of the student community as we have a lot of people and it sort of just sets the bar that if you're in and you're doing work this deep and you meet other people who are doing it this deep and you want to walk with a couple of those people. 01:31:56.247 --> 01:32:01.370 [SPEAKER_01]: It's refined that that's a good place to cultivate those kind of relationships. 01:32:01.950 --> 01:32:10.375 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's sort of a given that people are here to do deep work and be really reflective and curious about themselves and their programs and their patterns. 01:32:11.015 --> 01:32:12.796 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that can be really helpful. 01:32:13.617 --> 01:32:21.881 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's important to check in and make sure that we're growing in a way that keeps us... 01:32:23.763 --> 01:32:26.785 [SPEAKER_01]: elevating our emotional maturity and our personal responsibility. 01:32:26.805 --> 01:32:27.726 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:32:27.986 --> 01:32:30.408 [SPEAKER_01]: So listen to kind of wrap this up. 01:32:30.689 --> 01:32:36.474 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that the question isn't whether relationships change because relationships always do and they should. 01:32:37.155 --> 01:32:40.598 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's whether both people are willing to let it. 01:32:41.198 --> 01:32:47.500 [SPEAKER_01]: I've often thought about like a tree because in a tree every year it grows new rings, right? 01:32:48.340 --> 01:32:59.683 [SPEAKER_01]: It's still the same tree, but if it refused to grow because it wanted to protect last year's shape, then eventually it would stop being healthy, right? 01:32:59.883 --> 01:33:06.125 [SPEAKER_01]: Like relationships are the same, and the healthiest relationships I've ever seen aren't the ones that stayed the same. 01:33:07.276 --> 01:33:16.611 [SPEAKER_01]: they're the ones that allow each other to become someone new, again, and again, and then they choose each other through every season. 01:33:18.093 --> 01:33:20.537 [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes people don't. 01:33:21.358 --> 01:33:21.979 [SPEAKER_01]: Some people 01:33:23.160 --> 01:33:31.426 [SPEAKER_01]: don't choose to stay together, and that is not always a bad thing, but it hurts. 01:33:31.566 --> 01:33:47.697 [SPEAKER_01]: Usually things can be painful, and I think that that's where, you know, we talk about grief, is even healthy growth often contains grief, because we can grieve old relationships, but we can grieve old identities. 01:33:48.497 --> 01:33:57.724 [SPEAKER_01]: friendships, traditions, even old versions of ourselves, sometimes even if it was one that did us a lot of damage and we didn't really like that much. 01:33:57.904 --> 01:34:03.548 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's, there were good things that happened in that phase two, if we'll allow ourselves to see it. 01:34:04.309 --> 01:34:06.651 [SPEAKER_00]: And the ignorance is bliss far away. 01:34:07.191 --> 01:34:12.895 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, if I didn't know what I know, how easy life was, but it wasn't actually, yeah. 01:34:12.935 --> 01:34:15.818 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but there's sometimes there's grief with that, right? 01:34:16.598 --> 01:34:23.701 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, we've doesn't mean you made the wrong decision, it just means that something meaningful has changed. 01:34:24.702 --> 01:34:27.323 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's good. 01:34:27.363 --> 01:34:31.965 [SPEAKER_01]: We want meaningful things in our life, even if they don't last, you know, for a lifetime. 01:34:32.986 --> 01:34:37.788 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think for the people listening out there, if your relationships have been shifting as you've grown, 01:34:39.262 --> 01:34:47.245 [SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't necessarily mean that you've been doing, you know, doing healing wrong, or that there's something wrong with the people around you. 01:34:48.125 --> 01:34:56.249 [SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't mean you're in a bad situation or a bad job or a bad relationship because what you're experiencing is something incredibly common. 01:34:57.269 --> 01:35:00.610 [SPEAKER_01]: The goal is it to make everyone around you comfortable. 01:35:01.451 --> 01:35:03.952 [SPEAKER_01]: The goal is to become more authentically yourself. 01:35:04.832 --> 01:35:07.033 [SPEAKER_01]: Some relationships will deepen as we do that. 01:35:07.974 --> 01:35:12.263 [SPEAKER_01]: Some are naturally going to drift and some will surprise you. 01:35:13.850 --> 01:35:16.871 [SPEAKER_01]: and some people will meet the new version of you with open arms. 01:35:18.172 --> 01:35:23.574 [SPEAKER_01]: Those relationships often become stronger than anything that you could have ever imagined before. 01:35:24.115 --> 01:35:30.737 [SPEAKER_01]: So, if you're listening, and today's conversation resonated with you, we would love to hear your experience. 01:35:31.378 --> 01:35:33.779 [SPEAKER_01]: Have your relationships changed as you feel? 01:35:34.579 --> 01:35:36.040 [SPEAKER_01]: Did someone grow with you? 01:35:36.120 --> 01:35:37.280 [SPEAKER_01]: Did someone drift away? 01:35:37.961 --> 01:35:40.262 [SPEAKER_01]: Or are you in the middle of navigating that right now? 01:35:41.262 --> 01:35:42.343 [SPEAKER_01]: Leave us a comment below. 01:35:42.543 --> 01:35:49.129 [SPEAKER_01]: We genuinely read them and your experiences often inspire us to make future episodes. 01:35:50.370 --> 01:35:54.793 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, if you know someone who's struggling with this very thing, please send them this episode. 01:35:55.534 --> 01:36:02.740 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes simply realizing that you're not alone can completely change how you experience your own growth. 01:36:03.901 --> 01:36:05.562 [SPEAKER_01]: So Kent, thank you for joining me again. 01:36:05.742 --> 01:36:06.683 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for this conversation. 01:36:08.223 --> 01:36:23.186 [SPEAKER_01]: for being a partner, to me in healthy growth and for committing to your own growth and your own evolution that has been a game changer in my trajectory as well. 01:36:23.906 --> 01:36:27.887 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and for all those people out there, it has not been comfortable. 01:36:36.537 --> 01:36:39.080 [SPEAKER_00]: really hard many many times. 01:36:39.160 --> 01:36:40.722 [SPEAKER_00]: It's been painful at times. 01:36:40.762 --> 01:36:50.953 [SPEAKER_00]: There's been a lot of grief, a lot of growth, a lot of fun, a lot of moments and a lot of like clenching moments and it's all part of the 01:36:58.358 --> 01:37:05.344 [SPEAKER_01]: to the uncomfortable discomfort for anything. 01:37:05.564 --> 01:37:06.205 [SPEAKER_00]: No way. 01:37:06.305 --> 01:37:15.853 [SPEAKER_00]: Old programs, the old things that played in, like, may have felt simpler at the time or felt like it was, again, more comfortable, but no way. 01:37:16.654 --> 01:37:17.695 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thank you. 01:37:17.975 --> 01:37:18.515 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thank you. 01:37:19.096 --> 01:37:26.322 [SPEAKER_01]: And thank all of you for joining us once again on the Mind Change Podcast, where we are changing the world, one mind at a time.