[SPEAKER_03]: our cages.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so my research goes down and I kind of are back.
[SPEAKER_01]: And as always, we are joined by Kyle, but we needed some reinforcements for this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are talking the dark ages, 21 through 25.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are bringing Celestina in, if you don't know Celestina, she is a long time patron of the specialist.
[SPEAKER_01]: She is also one of my two amazing race goals.
[SPEAKER_01]: one being Kyle and then Celestina and I do root info where we dig a little bit deeper into some topics from the evening race over on the Patreon.
[SPEAKER_01]: So John, you're actually the odd man out here.
[SPEAKER_01]: because man, it's gonna be a time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's dive right into Nicaragua.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have Alina as our first juror here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alina winds up voting for Chase, not the eventual winner, but
[SPEAKER_01]: the entire episode of her boo, you're you're not shocked at the result that she goes home.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is broadcasted the entire time and there's like no subtlety, no like maybe somebody else could go home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alina is going home this episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this is, he is the crock, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, and this is part of the reason why we brought Celicina and she's a long time defender of Nicaragua.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, so we'll let her piece on it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But this is a very interesting time because Nicaragua really did kind of shift when we got to the merch, because we had these swap try the swap look blurring as well as tribes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Kind of really define how things were going here.
[SPEAKER_03]: The season originally is divided out by age with the young tribe and the old tribe and when there's a swap, we see a lot of connections kind of happening now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, one of that is, you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: the original responders are kind of sticking to the older folk, they tend to stick together the onion folks who, but there are some very pivotal relationships here that really define how things go and a lot of that does come from like a confrontation that we get in this episode is between Fabio and Alina.
[SPEAKER_03]: where Alina's like, okay, we can get the numbers.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's get out, Marty.
[SPEAKER_03]: But Marty is someone who's made a connection with Fabio Fabio trust in her.
[SPEAKER_03]: And really kind of does drive this home of the idea like why Alina had to go here.
[SPEAKER_03]: And
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not really disgusted in the season at all because no one on the season knows what survivor is.
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, Lee does essentially being targeted for being like a carbony-ask player, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, she's like young, attractive woman who is the intelligent and can kind of pull numbers her way.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's also been up and on the outside throughout this entire exception, kind of like, you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: working with, with, and then like getting conflict with Neon Kemp because that's everyone's role on this season and it really does, it really does kind of seem like Alina's not contributing a walk to the story, but she is at the same time and that's what makes it really hard to determine her impact on the end result of the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Sina, I mean, let's give us your thoughts on Alina here in Nicaragua and how you think she is as a juror because this is my bottom season.
[SPEAKER_01]: I spies in Nicaragua.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was a little bit of torture to watch this episode, but please regal us with some love for you know, I'm here to bring hope to the Dark Ages.
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, like the first thing I had when I started this with Alina was that I randomly just have a part of the Alina fan club for some reason, which is like kind of like that was my first thing that I said because like you were saying, John, she did give that poverty esk vibe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not necessarily that she's the same player, but that was the perception that she was given to a lot of people and you'll start seeing that there's a lot of common threads between a lot of the first jury members that you're going to see.
[SPEAKER_00]: and their perception of being sort of this strategic threat within the little alliance that they have formed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I feel like you're right about Olena and that regard, I, the reason why I am more positive on Nicaragua is just, I love the character moments and I'm a
[SPEAKER_00]: Fabio because I think that he did know a little bit more Then he was letting on and I I just like the way that it ended out and I liked the just natural chaos of things I I enjoyed that the train wreck of it all but I do think that what's interesting and I know we haven't really gone to like The actual part of how she votes at the end But I do think it was interesting and kind of looking it together like you were saying John that
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, she did have an impact, but the same time I also feel like the impact doesn't seem necessarily super obvious because she ends up voting for chase, which adds like this extra layer of I think entry because she's in in my final like evaluation is I didn't actually think that that was.
[SPEAKER_00]: necessarily super impactful.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do think that she looks at the game very black and white.
[SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't really look at it nuanced in that like the um she voted for Chase and I think from the outskirts like Chase played that sort of standard sort of game.
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't necessarily um as obvious.
[SPEAKER_00]: But so I think that's why she didn't, and it fits the mold of what her archetype was meant to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think in that regard, it makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't see her voting for Fabio, and especially because she had that altar kicker incident that was happening too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it does all make sense, but I think you were saying it's interesting to see like what type of long longevity impact it actually had on the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kyle.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's interesting to look at her arc with Fabio here because they do have their altercation where Fabio is like, this is why nobody trusts you like all that stuff that he says, what's interesting is Alina was kind of on the outs for a long time because of her association with Shannon, she was on the wrong side of the Shannon vote, you know who else was on the wrong side of the Shannon vote?
[SPEAKER_04]: Fabio.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they voted, they were on the wrong side of almost every.
[SPEAKER_04]: But they were aligned at some point.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then they get split off at the swap.
[SPEAKER_04]: So Fabio doesn't know what Alina's doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then they come back together and he's like, this is why I know trust you.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like,
[SPEAKER_04]: you were aligned and then you were a part and then now you don't like it like I don't know it doesn't make any sense so in that case you're you're right where it's like it makes total sense that she votes for Chase here and I don't remember exactly who Chase swayed with his speech.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think Alina may have been one of those votes.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know it was Jane Holly
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, when you think about their relationship, it does make a lot of sense why Fabio loses her vote and Chase ultimately gets it.
[SPEAKER_01]: This conversation with Fabio and Alina was wild to me, because Alina comes up to Fabio and is like, all right, these are, this is what we can do to get Marty out, steps x, y, and z.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Fabio is like, this is why you're on the bottom, you're like, everything has an agenda when you're talking to people and she's like, I'm literally going home if I don't do this, like, what do you expect from this conversation?
[SPEAKER_01]: it's either me have this conversation with you or I go home and I'd rather not do the latter.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that whole like conversation really just dropped Fabio for me as a winner.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was high on him.
[SPEAKER_01]: because I think I do appreciate the, you know, I'm playing dumb.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to the end because of X, Y, and Z, here's actually what I thought was going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that whole conversation of like, man, you're playing too hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is why you're going home.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, well, I have to because I'm going home.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other thing that we haven't mentioned is what kind of seals her fate is
[SPEAKER_01]: She stumbles upon Neyanka with the hiding the pan and the flower and the fruits where Neyanka does all this and then Neyanka's like, here come follow me and let's eat this orange together and here's this mango and then the whole camp finds out about it and that Alina was involved and then they're like, oh yeah, you are already on the bottom, but now you're really on the bottom.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, obviously this is a mystery and something that we've seen a couple of times in survivor history, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Where fun fact, hiding food, not a good strategy in survivor because you know, yeah, very mad at you because food is very limited and they're already cranky because they're not getting enough food.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a bit unfair to judge by this conversation here, because I just had to sit down a little bit, because
[SPEAKER_03]: I think, in surviving, you're able to confer confirmation by us, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think what Fabio's doing in this situation is, hey, you're doing this thing that we say you're doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And despite the fact that you're correct and that is what she should be doing and like trying to fight for herself there.
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't matter because Fabio's already made up his mind and that's why he's saying, hey, you're just proving my point.
[SPEAKER_03]: because that is so necessary and survivor sometimes, because if you sometimes, if you think about something, you kind of realize where the fault in your logic is, and that can really make things confusing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they get very hard to determine something, and sometimes it's easier just to be like, yeah, this is the plan.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have to stick with it, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Just follow the words of key snail and stick to the plan, and that's the way to approach it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's where Alina kind of gets into this,
[SPEAKER_03]: mess here is unfortunately she was already on the bottom of Luftwör.
[SPEAKER_03]: She and then there's another tribe coming a swap tribe that is working pretty closely together comes in at the merge and says hey Alina sorry you were already on the bottom before and now you're on this other side and we have to like kind of get our numbers here.
[SPEAKER_03]: So
[SPEAKER_03]: Why?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just really easy.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just really easy.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really easy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, pivoting a little bit to her final travel council question.
[SPEAKER_01]: She talks to Fabio and says, you're the ultimate surfer boy, but I don't want to give the money to a boy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to give it to a man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then goes to sash and is like, all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: this is your shot, you worked for your spot here, convinced me why you deserve the win more than the young guys, and then chase young too.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've been older than you think he is.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's like 10 years older than Fabio or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and this was, I can do this.
[SPEAKER_03]: If this was Panama, he may have been, he was 30, Sasha's 30 years old.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he has to do something other than the other two.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, Chase, uh, she was pleasantly surprised, um, by,
[SPEAKER_01]: his game and everything um then you she said you tell me I have to vote why she has to vote for him and not the uh the other guys um and then the boys argue a lot and then she says I like what's happening here do maybe three men fighting for their spot.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's such a funny comment.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just rewatched this
[SPEAKER_04]: for Mr. Andrew Denson, and yeah, it is, it is interesting, she, you really get her her vibe out of Fabio here.
[SPEAKER_04]: She calls him a boy multiple times, maybe three men fighting, like it's a, yeah, that's, that was interesting to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's funny that he went from boy to man because all of a sudden when he's arguing, now all of a sudden, but what I one thing I will say, I really, I mean there's a lot of things I like about Fabio and obviously I'm in the minority and I love being in the minority because I like stand the season a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why, but Fabio is.
[SPEAKER_00]: He played a very vulnerable game in a very emotional game and I actually really appreciated that and you see like there's lots of episodes of him like crying and like being really vulnerable and like just and I really think that resonated with that and I don't know if Alina was looking at that at the emotional side and thinking that that
[SPEAKER_00]: is associated with a boy because it's more younger and not as like seen maybe as mature.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there was also moments where he was very hyper.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he just was all over the place.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's like he had like a candy bar or something too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like it was because of like
[SPEAKER_00]: his emotional like how he was acting that she had that perception of him to but it is interesting and the final treble counsel how she has these sort of like perceptions of them when they're all around the same age.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just like they're demeanors and stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah and that's actually something I was going to have to tell us as well as like alias 23 she's younger than Jason's 24 and she's only two years older than Bobby.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the fact that she's following these two
[SPEAKER_01]: Youngest.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It really does reflect on how she's approaching the game and I think this is more of a statement Again, this is these are people who don't really know
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very fair to say that about every season we are talking about.
[SPEAKER_03]: There'll be one or two people who know what's going on and the majority of the cast won't.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so which means, and we talked about this in previous episodes, it means you have to change kind of the way you approach the jury.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think what we really see here from Alina is Alina is looking for a bit more maturity.
[SPEAKER_03]: You look at the age of Alina.
[SPEAKER_03]: Alina is 23.
[SPEAKER_03]: which means, lightly, she just finished being a senior in college, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: So she's done with college people and we've all been all four of us at least, and they've a bunch of the listeners will all been 23.
[SPEAKER_03]: And once you hit 23 and you'll move on to her college, it kind of looked at college students a little differently than you did before.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think your education was an art student, so I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: point being is like timing why it's right like I think like as you become a senior and has as you move towards the end of your college career like you start really looking down on younger college students and and you're starting to look forward to being adult by all many of us know what 23 years still kind of a child I'm not really adult sorry any 23 year old no offense to any college students you met me when I was three yeah we have all been there and I would say we were not adults at
[SPEAKER_03]: You'll figure it out when you get older, it's okay, it'll all make sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think this is what it comes in.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is an instance of like the real world playing into survival.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is why survival is such a big game.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because the jury is always different, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think what we're seeing from O'Lina here is O'Lina is respecting the game quite a bit for someone who's just kind of learning the game.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's also a looking for maturity.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's what we, why she floats towards Chase rather than Bobbiow.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think another thing we really need to consider here, and I don't know if you were intending to bring this up or not, Bobbiow wins by one vote, but receives both Niyanka and Purple Cali's vote.
[SPEAKER_03]: And in future seasons, quitters don't get a Missouri.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So Chase wins this.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you look at who is voting for Chase, it's Alina.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's Jane Holly and Brenda, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are all the people who are really more strategic on this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that is very pivotal in telling you what I'll see.
[SPEAKER_03]: She was leading her strategy.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was a wild thing to say.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's true.
[SPEAKER_03]: And because of that, I think it really does kind of indicate where Alina's influence on the jury comes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I think Alina does impact this jury.
[SPEAKER_03]: But she's only impacting the people who are playing more of a strategic game and less of the social game.
[SPEAKER_04]: If Chase had won by one vote, I think Alina's impact would be like far greater.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like we would look at this as being like one of the most impactful first jurors, but that won vote the other way.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, like you said, Celestine, it's like kind of an understated impact now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So do we think Alina is a bitter or better juror or any of the other bees we've used for what?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's been a lot of work.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, like she's better.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like she's quite, you know, aggressive with her question, even though it has a little like cheek to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like super harsh or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she is trying to just trying to get to the bottom of strategy in the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's I guess kind of all we want.
[SPEAKER_04]: She gives Sasha fair chance at a question, like supposedly, supposedly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, early makes it look like.
[SPEAKER_04]: Makes it look like it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, again, like the thing is, it's like the other society, whether or not like the sash, not getting, being allowed to be voted for actually half-hundred-know-that.
[SPEAKER_03]: and it is kind of just like one of those rumors around in the Survivor fandoms I guess of it all, but because he ends up getting zero of those here, it is a close-up between Fabio and Chase, but you're right, like Elina is still presenting in a way where there's a possibility, Chase, or Sasha, to get about here, as long as the rules of the games permit of it, and
[SPEAKER_03]: I think when you have a juror like that, it's always better, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like this is someone who is other than Fabio, who ends up waiting this season, who she's just like your perpetual man, child, who has literal children, just like throwing that up there.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was only 21.
[SPEAKER_03]: But she's just in a place where it seems
[SPEAKER_03]: It seems like she's willing to give everyone a chance.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think whether she had her mind made up going into Filipino travel counselor or not, she at least proposed an opportunity for everyone to really fight for themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so that was Alina now moving on to redemption island and we have the full Murphy David Murphy as our first juror, but we have some.
[SPEAKER_01]: weird goings on's because it's redemption island so obviously Matt Elrod is the merge boot, but he also was already voted out Mike was voted out before David, but he got to say in the game because he was winning on redemption island.
[SPEAKER_01]: But all of these people vote for Rob.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't really matter in the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see a Ralph voting for file.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, I feel like we have to just jump into the final tribal council speech for David.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's really not much to laugh about within the episodes aside from he's a strategic threat.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is like one of the biggest vote for this person's speeches.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've gotten, we talked last episode about Erica Cardona going for Natalie, but he said it in a way where he's not like vote for Natalie, dummies.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here David is just like this, uh,
[SPEAKER_01]: this person did nothing, this person did nothing, the guy in the middle did everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: So obviously, you need to vote for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Rob is this biggest strategic mastermind that the game is ever seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yadayada yada.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's here in final travel council.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, you need to vote for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: No matter how he voted you out.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: Tell us what you're going to give us.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're picking it on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah,
[SPEAKER_00]: I prefer Nicaragua.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's interesting is that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I keep wanting to calm down for some reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, David, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_03]: He looks like a fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
[SPEAKER_03]: He does look like a fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think I wrote that down.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that on accident, sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's an attorney.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it makes it like he embodied the same character the entire season, like he was in his alliance.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was that kind of strategic person and his alliance, which is why they wanted to get him out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, they wanted to get his hand out first before the other people in that alliance because he did pose the bigger threat out of the people and that alliance the perceived threat I should say so it makes sense with his character that he would be that person to go and and pitch that although what I do find interesting is that I feel like out of all seasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe an underrated person or like when you were saying the whole Eric Cardano with Natalie like that made sense because Natalie I think was very underrated, but like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It really was like, we all knew Rob was going to win.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was like, it's almost like first show, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of interesting because they make it seem like, oh yeah, look at him.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing all this work and he's trying hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing his attorney pitch and he probably thinks he had all this power and was able to swipe people.
[SPEAKER_00]: But really it's like, it's, I mean, we all knew when I, you know, we saw how the first two episodes were shaking up.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and he does go last, so I don't know who's opinion he could possibly sway after going through an entire 39 days and eight final tribal speeches.
[SPEAKER_04]: This was going to be the thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're like, of course, you're right.
[SPEAKER_04]: It wasn't Natalie, 10 of really the whole time.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was Rob.
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is absolutely just to have a big moment to hear yourself talk, hey, I get it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, but this is like this he literally has a thing named after the full Murphy like everybody references this speech and and whenever there is a stump speech like this this is the first one that people bring up not you know air card on a for instance because this is the most like unnecessary you know just completely direct
[SPEAKER_04]: Speech like it's so funny.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's so funny, but it just said it it's that some sort of a tone for like the audience or for how great Boston Rob is a game was like I did the producers tell them to say something like this like make sure that everybody really knows how good Rob played on this game Well Did they though because like there were what three people who actually applied for Survivor on this season four
[SPEAKER_03]: four and David Murphy knows it for three.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't even know what David knew to your rival when he was doing this speech and he was just like, oh my god, I am baffled by how fantastic this entire thing was, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And he actually blinded by the control that wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think to someone who is uneducated and survivor, Rob does seem like he is playing a perfect game of strategy.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was a very dominating game of
[SPEAKER_03]: but it's not perfect because it just happens to work based on the personalities he's with, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: We obviously see a bit of pushback from Christina in the pre-merge, and then these apateras once the merge does happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: This episode was the body system, too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we see this very domineering play by raw that David wants to congratulate
[SPEAKER_03]: Final Tribal Council, but we as an audience don't need to know that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe people that I didn't need to know that because they didn't understand the game well enough.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe they were a little better.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe David did help with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But for me, I just can't take David Murphy seriously.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'll tell you when David really set the tone was at the merge vote when Matt got voted out and he turns to his alliance and he says genius is what that was and I think that there is where the tone was was really set for anybody who didn't get it or didn't appreciate it like the most your
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's also fascinating too because I feel like this is kind of like that era of like we're bringing back all of the like really popular players to kind of come play and at the very beginning of the season we we see that David really was not he.
[SPEAKER_00]: during this season, we see that he was one of those people was like, oh, no, we got to make sure that we was this, this was also the one where Russell was on it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, the vocal people who was like, let's get, let's get Russell out, let's get Russell out, returny people like, yeah, let's, he was, he was all like gung-ho about that and was kind of one of the most vocal people about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think for him having robbed there at the end
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so impressive, like because like you were saying, he's very much looking at it from like that perspective of like, you know, strategic level and oh, it's a return player who's here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that also was very fascinating to because he was gung-ho about trying to get a lot of those people out and really he kind of reminds me of like those Faithfuls and the traders that are just like,
[SPEAKER_00]: completely like I'm the best faithful ever and I'm going to lead the charge to go and try and get out all of the traders gave me those vibes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so it was interesting to see that kind of parallel at the end where it's like oh now I'm voting for the for the person that is a returny
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, he says in his speech when we started this game to people came in, one of them claimed to be the best to ever play the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: He walked out on day eight.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a guy sitting over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: He just played the best strategic game.
[SPEAKER_01]: This game is ever seen bubble.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's like, so this other guy claimed to be the best, but now look who is the best.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we can call David better, but I don't think he's better either.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not basic or bland.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's bombastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, wow, we're gonna go, I have to help.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll tell you what, one of my favorite random things is when David is voting for Rob to go home.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is when he's voted out.
[SPEAKER_04]: He writes Rob times 10.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh no, please count this as four robs.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, four robs to try as an attempt.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just like, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, like I said, my problem with David as a juror is, I don't know how much the rest of the jury is taking him seriously.
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, like everyone votes wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: We could pretend that David had a big impact on this.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not because Rob had a very command of the game.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think what David doing out first actually does make us a better jury because I think it does take any of the bitterness of ways from the saboteurs.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think, yes, Ralph votes for Phillip.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think that was actually like a genuine vote for Phillip to make sure Phillip claims that in place.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I pretty sure like that's been sent out there in the world, but that was just to make sure that Natalie didn't get the second place money and fell up didn't said that's quite.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everything else here like if you look at some of these appetizers who were bullied out post merge right your.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mike your Mike's beer Julie's right like.
[SPEAKER_03]: These are people who work quite better in-game, but still give Rob his kudos at the end of the game, and I think David being there as the first sure, as someone who
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe he didn't know the game that well, but understood the game enough to be, to like, respect the game that Rob was playing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's very different.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, we've already talked about Rob sitting in a final table council on how much the jury, they kind of impacts that, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: With what's being there, having everyone come back who's feeling bitter in the game and maintaining that bitterness.
[SPEAKER_03]: David being there, can't, it doesn't matter how unserious you take this man,
[SPEAKER_03]: him being there and being like, no, no, no, no, like this is why what Rod did was spark.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's probably enough to have swayed a couple of O2ABs way that might not have gone there just out of his mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he probably did this era too.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he may have been talking about this like throughout Ponderosa kind of like priming them.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think it also needs to be said that like, Rod
[SPEAKER_04]: probably doesn't win against a lot of other people on this season.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I think that's been that's been said that like he loses the grant.
[SPEAKER_04]: He loses to Ashley probably like I don't know about Andrea, but you know he had to get with these two specific people.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if he was against either one of those two does David speech land as well or or do other people have their minds made up because they are
[SPEAKER_04]: really bitter at Rob and they'll vote for Grant, but they really hate Philip and they really hate Natalie.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I wonder if there was somebody with a little bit more respect from the jury.
[SPEAKER_04]: If this would have been effective.
[SPEAKER_01]: He might have switched up his speech a little bit to make it be more effective.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just easy in this time to be like, I can say what I want to say because it doesn't matter nobody's voting for Philip, nobody's voting for Natalie.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is going to be talked about last week when there are her don't a speech, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Where it's like Eric's speech or Natalie makes a lot more sense because it doesn't she doesn't seem like an automatic like four run here for the game.
[SPEAKER_03]: The weird thing about David's speech here, it doesn't it just doesn't seem necessary.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is interesting though, too, because I was alluding to it is that this like fits the narrative of the era.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I feel like this was the era
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like playing that basic cookie cutter strategy game.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna win, you're gonna win the season or that's what people look for when you're winning typically.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so people look for that in a game, but like now survivors evolve so much that it's really complex, like your win can be super nuanced.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could have like an emotional game, you could have a social game.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like during this time, it was just sort of,
[SPEAKER_00]: There's just sort of like the unwritten rule that this type of person is the type of person that you want to win.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it would be really fascinating to see if he was on a season now.
[SPEAKER_00]: How would he vote and how would he look at the game?
[SPEAKER_00]: Would he still have that same sort of perspective of, oh my gosh, I think that this type of rob game is always, I'm always going to vote for it, or was, is he going to also evolve too?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I look at,
[SPEAKER_00]: things based on the arrows and how they're perceived in the era.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just like, you know, the first few seasons versus like middle school versus new school era.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, moving on to self-pecific and this one is, I feel like, even tougher than redemption island, Jim Rice is technically our first juror, but him and Keith get eliminated at the same time, so it's both Jim and Keith essentially share the mayor of Ponderosa role.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then Ozzy gets voted out before Jim, but after Keith, and he is basically talking to all of the jurors before they become jurors, so he is like talking their ear off, so we almost have three, quote unquote, first jurors here, because the three boys are on redemption together.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the last juror.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly that too.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Ozzy is able to talk to every jur pretty much as they are leaving the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: And
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, it ultimately all three vote for Sophie, so if we lose, you know, one of them because Ozzy was actually voted out at the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't, I think, impact too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the, what's the vote count at South Pacific?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's, it's 6 to 3.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the 3.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, yeah, so Jim and Keith are hard because they're both,
[SPEAKER_01]: Voted out at the same time here, but Jim is a little bit more.
[SPEAKER_01]: vocal than Keith has a lot more of a presence on the season than Keith.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it will be able to sway people more than then Keith would be able to.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's almost like they have good cop bad
[SPEAKER_04]: Jim Rice is my man, like he's one of my like favorite biggest kind of place.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have the biggest Jim Rice fan out there.
[SPEAKER_04]: With that being said, I don't know what his effect was on this jury.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I don't I don't really know for sure exactly what he was basing his vote off of because like he and Sophie they don't really spend too much time together.
[SPEAKER_04]: He didn't spend much time with many of the Apollus.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it's really the anti-cocran tone that is set with with this jury From the moment that caucro and flips and Keith goes home.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's all about we We don't want caucro to win.
[SPEAKER_04]: We hate caucro and we're gonna try and get everybody to flip on caucro and like that's kind of their strategy from the seven I he's like that's how we're gonna survive one more boat is throwing caucro under the bus
[SPEAKER_04]: So that, I think, is more of the tone that is set like, don't flip.
[SPEAKER_04]: It makes this huge moment out of what Cochrane does.
[SPEAKER_04]: But as far as, like, the Apollo's, I don't really know what this is.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, what tone is he setting here?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he does what's good about him in the game is he pegs Sophie and Albert as not being in the cult of coach and they're kind of of sound mind and he's able to try and pitch to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I think he then at final tribal council identifies those two because he's written off coach.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, identifies those two as the ones that he wants to vote for my guess mainly leaning Sophie.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why he asks his question to Albert of why should the people next to you not win and don't say a compliment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Albert.
[SPEAKER_01]: Albert destroyed that and Jim, he didn't compliment coach in the way of like he played a great game, but which was Jim's example, you then complimented Jim, and it was like, well, you didn't tell me I couldn't compliment you, basically, but still, you know, did not abide by Jim's question, and so Jim was then firmly
[SPEAKER_01]: in Sophie's corner and I feel like that's how he kind of navigated the jury identified, you know, those two people as the ones that are able to puppet and maneuver throughout the game because they are of sound mind and then once they got to the final tribal council decided, you know, between the two of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think this decision was made by a final title council.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think actually Jim is very important in here.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think you made a very good point like that where it's a real first juror this season is Aussie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Aussie being on Iran Redemption Island and talking to everyone before he eliminates them from the game.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's a big influence on a lot of these surveys in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think what we see here is a push to really like make sure this idea that like
[SPEAKER_03]: coach cannot win.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, yes, arguably coach controlled this entire game, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: He is controlling the game.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's created this cult in the family.
[SPEAKER_03]: I kept it all together and work is working towards pushing it to the win and getting to the end.
[SPEAKER_03]: But
[SPEAKER_03]: Jim being someone who is approaching the game very strategically, understanding the nuances of the game, and disrespecting that coach game is really important and pushing over the soapy over Albert.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Albert can demo himself with the given making Brandon give up immunity and voting him out.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's really like what makes it some of the salaries know who they're voting for between Albert and Sophie
[SPEAKER_03]: But if you look at the vote distribution for this, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: The people, the only op-opolo votes for Shelby to win is Brandon.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's not good enough for Coach.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's not good enough for Albert because he's better, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So really, this was just a, I think, a very calculated, strong front from Savaii as to who they were going to put the votes on to win.
[SPEAKER_03]: with obviously minus cauffering to know aside for the coach, but yeah, I think what we really do see from Jim here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Jim isn't as bitter at the cauffering flip as
[SPEAKER_03]: An Aussie is as a Whitney is as a dawn is right.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's he's a definitely still bitter But he isn't quite as bitter there because I think he is a little more sound of mine And he does have a greater appreciation for the game and can see what's going on there ultimately because this is a very like us first them season I think what we see from Jim here is just the push for this is the person who like played the game well
[SPEAKER_03]: did what she needed to do to get to the end, said the right things.
[SPEAKER_03]: And really, he does influence it to push, I think, towards Sophie, because Sophie is visibly doing more than Albert is, and presenting it in better way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that this is another version of what we talked about in Australian outback when Alicia said there's going to be more of us on the jury then your alliance and it's the same case here where it's like the Savaiese have control over.
[SPEAKER_04]: over the jury, and who you have Albert, who's, you know, kind of smart me, and it's making false promises.
[SPEAKER_04]: You have coach, he's making false promises, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Tell on Ozzy, I'll send you to fire and then do like, and then Sophie is not doing that, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, she is the one who is not actively making them feel better as they're going out the door, but Albert and Coach are
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, they are, and so, you know, it's like there's more than on the jury.
[SPEAKER_04]: So like, you know, yeah, coach gets the polo's, but the majority of the jury's not
[SPEAKER_00]: just like his overall game and his impact in the season.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you'll have to remind me, because I'm not a numbers person.
[SPEAKER_00]: And going to the challenge for, yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, McKenna.
[SPEAKER_00]: Going into the merge, how many were of the survivor there?
[SPEAKER_00]: And how many of the polar were there?
[SPEAKER_03]: Was it?
[SPEAKER_03]: It was even going in the water.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I find very, very fascinating, and I think could have been a completely different trajectory in the game is social games matter and how you treat people matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: And whether or not people want to say,
[SPEAKER_00]: How Cochrane felt and, you know, it perception is reality and I almost wonder if like they had brought in initially Cochrane and like made him feel really good and they, you know, like if he didn't flip They could have they had the option and they could have they could have propelled themselves in it would have been a completely different scenario But because Cochrane ended up
[SPEAKER_00]: flipping that really steered the trajectory of the game and and you know gem was a big factor and that because there was so many times like you were saying it was like get caught right and then that became their new thing because after they saw that they were slowly getting decimated they were like you know it's it's gonna be us it's gonna be us and then they started pitching that but it would be really fascinating to see what would happen if
[SPEAKER_00]: they actually had caucranas like a tight person and their alliance.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then even if he was on the bottom, if they still have this sort of like loyalty, and they kind of made it to the
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of like it was a swapped thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: They made it to the end and then eventually, you know, they're like, okay, well, we have to eventually start eliminating people from the eliminated coffin, but it wouldn't have had been that sour taste in their mouth.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I find that very fascinating.
[SPEAKER_00]: And because of that, I do think he did have an impact, whether it's, you know, a goat or a bad impact based on, you know, perspective, that's, you know, that's,
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think that there was an impact because the whole entire season could have been different had they decided maybe the way we treat the member of our alliance so I always like to think about that too because social does matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and how you treat people does matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a really good point.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was, you know, that I think that we haven't really discussed how that's impacted the jury at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like the game moves, which have resulted in the people on the jury being in the jury.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I think that is really important in this season, because it is the treatment of copper in that really dictates how this jury becomes.
[SPEAKER_03]: So sorry, you have it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I tell you how Jim Rice could have won this game.
[SPEAKER_04]: was if as he had played his idle on cocker and at the merge vote instead of Wait, I think he plays it on Whitney right because if you play it on cocker and cocker And was really worried about going to rocks and getting rocked out But if you play your idle on him now he doesn't feel like he has to play.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, oh my lines It's feeling really good about me, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm a valued member here So I don't I don't understand why as he didn't do that.
[SPEAKER_04]: That was a long thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've always questioned
[SPEAKER_01]: Jim in one of these tribal councils kept saying like about Cochrane we keep fighting all of your battles and that would be yet another battle that Jim Aussie Keith Whitney
[SPEAKER_01]: Dawn are fighting for cauldron and you know, that's when he drove in, you know, the noble and the warrior that makes coach like perk up a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: He really gives a good speech here to try and sway the opposed.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't do his move of putting the necklace around Aussie's neck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here, like he said, he might which weird that we have two of the exact same situation happened with like Karthian Lex and now Aussie and Jim.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just I can't tell if he's better or if he's better.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is one of those like kind of middle ground where he I feel it feels like he wasn't the reason the votes went the way that they did it was Aussie, but he also you know assisted Aussie once they got to ponderosa my guess
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's hard to judge and it's hard to judge on these redemption island seasons as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know where so let's see.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just one, but she'll be back.
[SPEAKER_03]: All these adventure island seasons because there is so much time spent on redemption island.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we see these jurors really like spending time together more.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's impossible to kind of gauge how much
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, Sophie, not being a complete asshole, plays into this vote here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sophie, beating Aussie in the final immunity.
[SPEAKER_03]: How much does that play into a vote here?
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think it's very easy to say.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a very bitter jury.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is one of the more bitter juries, even, but it's harder to determine bitter juries when there are, that's a final three instead of a final two.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's very telling that the most bitter juries in survivor happen to be in final two's and not final three's, because that third person there can kind of just be ignored.
[SPEAKER_03]: But there is still a third person thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think what we see here is these Salays are quite bitter towards coach for what coach didn't the game.
[SPEAKER_03]: And because of that, like, I do have to put Jim in the bitter category, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Rather than the better care at category.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that's definitely, definitely fair.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because like this is an instance where I do think I love Sophie, but I think that this is an instance where like coach lost the game for himself.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I mean, like it coach is responsible for making those jurors bitter against him.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a bitter jury, and that Jim is a bitter juror.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, now we head on over to one world.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to get it out of the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jonas is better for everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I'm not just the best.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jonas is the best.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, um, he is just so sweet and nice and just questioning why he's the one going out here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Kim is correct in getting Jonas out here, because he is like that leader of the other side.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he is also the chef, the provider, you know, why are we taking out this guy who is so influential in our camp survival wise?
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, we can get him later.
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't do great in challenges.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that he doesn't have a few people batting for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: But not batting hard enough to keep them around through this round.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, this is the little differences.
[SPEAKER_03]: And let's, uh,
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's go to San Fail in here for this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Jonas is the glue guy, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's why it's so important that Jonas is the first person out here for Kim's win.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I think Jonas being there can be a uniting force for these men in a way because he is kind of like, well, the more happy go lucky, he still understands the game well enough, but it's a very likable person and makes it easier to unite these men who are in channels.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, they were in different channels, but they gave up and in group of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Jonas is also picking fights with Tarzan this episode too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he was a granted Tarzan also wakes his dirty underwear in a pot in this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not poop.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no way it's not poop.
[SPEAKER_03]: There is zero chance it's not poop.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just third the way he says.
[SPEAKER_03]: Also, it doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's still touching his ass.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you know this one.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it was a disgusting because like, who flies everywhere and you just don't see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is this the conversation?
[SPEAKER_01]: Moving back to Jonas.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's justifying, I'm justifying Jonas.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're submitting a few ends of poop.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to make the cellist to eat up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thoughts on Joe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you were saying he's just a nice guy, you know, you like you like nice guys and I think that ultimately also is why he's voted out like you're just you sometimes being a nice person can be threatening you have like relationships you have you know you could put there's that also the potential of having a pull.
[SPEAKER_00]: like you could have a pool on, you know, certain people and then that could end up, you know, meaning that somebody goes home.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so so I understand having why he, they had him go out first, kind of some, like, similarly, he also was after Colton had left.
[SPEAKER_00]: He kind of became the
[SPEAKER_00]: You seem like the only one that was like sort of how did like a somewhat understanding of the game and that like why we're playing the game and what's happening with the game and like, you know, kind of the purpose because everybody else kind of seems like they were on their own little planet and they were all playing, I don't know what they're playing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if they were playing survivor, but they were playing something and I think Jonas kind of seemed like the one person that maybe could have had like a big, a bigger pool.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he also came about it like he does take the game seriously, but in his final words, he says things like so I came here to go bigger, go home and I went big and I'm now going home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, his final tribal council question has the, you must address me as master, Jonas.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then he goes into a bit more, some more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sabrina is, if this was the most popular, you'd get my vote, you still might, but it's crazy how bad you suck at challenges.
[SPEAKER_01]: Chelsea, your cute, all us guys agree you're the hottest chick of the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now name your boldest, biggest move you made without Kim.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Kim basically, you kicked my ass, but that doesn't necessarily deserve my vote.
[SPEAKER_01]: pans over to Christina.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he has some good thoughts within these joky kind of sayings and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can appreciate that that he's still taking the game seriously, but with a levity that just makes a season like one world that's kind of part of the
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's why I love Jonah so much.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I don't have too much to say about Jonah's in terms of a juror.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's just not around long enough to, you know, like, but what I think of this jury, I think of Troy's Anne and his, his,
[SPEAKER_04]: you know speech like he votes for Sabrina um but that's a beautiful and we don't know it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh absolutely it's a bitter vote um so that that's what I think so Jonas is definitely better because I guess he kind of saves the jury help steer it in the direction towards Kim and does not let Troy's Anne dominate like if he is the glue guy if he is the leader of the
[SPEAKER_04]: because Troy's and saw himself as the leader.
[SPEAKER_04]: He assumed that role or tried to many times throughout the season, but his opinion did not overtake this jury.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was majority still going for him and Jonas helped foster that environment and opinion as being for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: let them, you know, have their own opinions like just like let them be or, you know, helped boost Kim a little bit after, you know, they were came back and talked, oh, you know, Kim did me dirty blah, blah, blah, blah, but for her game, this could, this was a good move X, Y, and Z, but also I don't think he was, you know, these other people stuck.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Kim has to win
[SPEAKER_01]: when he did foster other people's opinions, it feels like from his just his nature.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like he was just open to hearing people out and not forcing his own opinion on the jury.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's very similar to what I was saying with election all stars in the opposite way, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Where sometimes it doesn't matter who the person is that goes on to the jury for like actually determining the winner, but it is for setting the tone.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's what we see here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Jonas is just such a because Jonas has this like levity to him and because he does kind of have a very
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, can think things through a little more logically and let go of there.
[SPEAKER_03]: uh, intense emotions and frustrations with things, that's what I think he really contributes as a juror.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he is just the type of person who goes in and is able to calm people down and like talk things through.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's a very reasonable person who, yes, provides an opportunity for everyone to make their cases to why they should win, but in the end, he is just making sure the jury
[SPEAKER_03]: that is quite similar to what we saw in South Pacific, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, there's a lot of men on this jury.
[SPEAKER_03]: And in fact, there's more of them than there are women.
[SPEAKER_03]: So like, that entire tribe could have decided that one this game.
[SPEAKER_03]: But one of them does both differently than the rest of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: but he presents an opportunity for all these men to make their own decision and make it without bitterness and instead just fostering kind of like this idea like hey let's just look at this game and I think that's what I like Jonas brings to make him a better juror.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jonas, betterger, all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to R.C.
[SPEAKER_01]: which is interesting because she is the only one who votes for Lisa here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought you were going to say it was interesting because you ate her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, hey, it is a strong word.
[SPEAKER_01]: We reserved that for Shannon.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, R.C.
[SPEAKER_01]: is not my favorite character on Philippines.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will just
[SPEAKER_01]: you know put it that way um but yeah she's the only one who votes for Lisa here and being that first juror and then being the only one to vote a certain way really leads you to question what impact did she have well seems like not much um but um and she really her questioning
[SPEAKER_01]: is of, you know, simply for Lisa of like, this person should win the game, but it has absolutely no impact on anybody in this jury.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she even had, you know, some people who liked her and everything like that, I know there was struggles with Abby, Pete, but she did have, you know, some connections throughout the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wonder why her impact was just not there, obviously Denise had the story of every tribal council.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to overcome, but I don't know, at least it deserves more love.
[SPEAKER_04]: She might have been right.
[SPEAKER_04]: She might have been right that Lisa deserved to win the season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we all deserve love, but you know, you can start talking about it for at the end for for a million dollars.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Celstein, you deserved more love when you got into our final travel counsel.
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I think what's interesting about RC here and it's something that's different than the previous four we've had because despite the fact that there were no swaps in redemption island and in South Pacific, there is an instance of like spending more time with the other tribe because of the redemption island we can't, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: You're spending more time and getting to know the other tribe sure you're not necessarily getting to know the people presenting themselves their case at the final travel council, but you can at least kind of get insight into what the other tribe thought of them as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the only season in the stretch that doesn't have a swap.
[SPEAKER_03]: It has an absorption instead, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: When matching drops, and Denise's on Cal about and not on 10 days.
[SPEAKER_03]: So RC literally only spends this one round with Denise.
[SPEAKER_03]: So she doesn't really give an opportunity to see that what she does get to see from Denise is kind of Denise's like picking on Abby Maria, the entire time I try to counsel.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's
[SPEAKER_03]: what she's doing but she spent the entire pre-merge with Lisa.
[SPEAKER_03]: She spent all this time cultivating her relationship with Lisa.
[SPEAKER_01]: But she was a number one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but she was still, yeah, but I mean, that's Michael Scoob and so.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we had that time.
[SPEAKER_03]: She was ahead of her time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think what it really comes down to is she's cultivated this relationship.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it's a cry.
[SPEAKER_03]: This isn't really like why does RC vote for Lisa.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is more about, this is why RC doesn't vote for Denise.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's the interesting thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think she has any impact on this jury whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_03]: Clearly, because she is the only person who votes the way she does.
[SPEAKER_03]: However, I do think she gets up there and speaks for Lisa and presents a case that
[SPEAKER_03]: He's compelling us who widely so should maybe win this season.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like you said back at it, though, it's really hard to beat Denise's narrative.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, RC Pagtor, as she's gonna be a smart cookie in this game, we need to get her out soon, and she kept saying that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody would listen, and there she is in the final three, but that's also just her opinion,
[SPEAKER_01]: there's no fact to be able to sway someone.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I knew she would do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, that's great that you did.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it doesn't really have any legs as something to grip on for any of the other jurors.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you know, it's great that you thought that, but it doesn't, it doesn't provide anything for the other jurors to latch on to and then run with that narrative.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's interesting too because the one thing I will say about RC is that she's an opinionated queen and I love that because I think and one thing I resonate with her on is that I would go into a final three situation and even if somebody played an amazing game, if I like somebody,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to vote for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's just who I am.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that she liked Lisa, like you're saying she spent the most time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I can kind of in a way, understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you don't know somebody, it's really hard to make a decision about somebody's game.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't know them, yes, you can go and you can see all of the tribal councils.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's just a very small portion of what's happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're really recapping everything that's happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: can't camp.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, if your heart's telling you, you know what, I'm going to vote for this person because I know them and they're my friend and they're nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why not?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I would vote for somebody and I'm also petty.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I would be like, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like this person.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to vote for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to vote for the other person, even if this other person did play a better game.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's just like ability is so important.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like, you know, people don't really think about that often, but I do when I
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think RC's like pitch or tone does it work for a few reasons for one, this is a situation for anybody who's in a sports or like the box score is just hard to deny where Denise, she goes to every single travel council.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's on the disaster tribe.
[SPEAKER_04]: She makes it to the end that is almost an impossible case to beat.
[SPEAKER_04]: you also had the scoop and factor where scoop and was like kind of ruining things for Lisa.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think because they were seen as like a duo and scoop and was, you know, delusional.
[SPEAKER_04]: People didn't respect him and I think the Lisa took a lot of that.
[SPEAKER_04]: unfairly and then as well our sea is the one who's pitching for for Lisa but she was kind of on the bottom of her tribe right like her tribe is largely responsible for why she is the first person voted out it's why you know it's called the unintentional tending or tending is referenced as like this is why you maybe want to go to travel council before the merge because there's so much infighting and rc was on the bottom of that so
[SPEAKER_04]: She's not someone who's pitcher going to listen to when it came to someone like David, you know, he was in the minority and all his alliance was on the jury, but with R.C.
[SPEAKER_04]: and he was who I respected within that, but R.C.
[SPEAKER_04]: was not.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, that her pitch is not going to land as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that I was raised up a really good point here because the people that she was at
[SPEAKER_03]: At the end of that are the two people sitting at my tribal council from a rich outside rather than the people who didn't like her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and she's also batting for Lisa who is an emotional player too, and we have seen time and time again that nobody gives credit to the emotional players, just because you cry or, you know, break down or whatever does not mean you're any less of a player and I can relate to that and people don't see it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the older woman in fact or two, that's not for that, so that's hard for, you know, for an older woman to get that respect.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think R.C.
[SPEAKER_01]: was trying to do the Lord's work and it did not work.
[SPEAKER_01]: But any R.C.
[SPEAKER_01]: bitter or better or another B.
[SPEAKER_04]: I won't come up with any more because I don't think she had any impact but she I don't think she was super bitter she just didn't really just there for someone who was such a large part of the first half of the season she really has no impact blind
[SPEAKER_01]: Alrighty, everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that is our show today.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Selisina, for hopping on and making these dark ages just a little bit brighter.
[SPEAKER_01]: John, what do we got going on in this special universe?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well,
[SPEAKER_03]: feel and what's when I will be back tomorrow that discuss these same five seasons and their winners and the winning games of those seasons tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yesterday, Phil Will and Blake started our countdown of our winner rankings going through winners 50 through 41.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was very interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can see McKenna and I are part of that with our combined winner ranking list to just like change of numbers a little bit so that
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Chris, I don't know what I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't work.
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't help when all of them put him at 50.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't even let us defend ourselves on the podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I knew Phil was doing that as soon as he said that we weren't allowed in that podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I missed that one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so that's how being telling what's still doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's trying to rewatch everyone so well.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, click the bell.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Alrighty, everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning in and giving the love to this series.
[SPEAKER_01]: We really appreciate it and have a blast making it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So all of your support really means a lot.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So thanks for making it through the episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: Goodbye.