WEBVTT 00:00.231 --> 00:02.873 [SPEAKER_00]: Two nights ago, I completely lost it on E.J. 00:03.353 --> 00:05.714 [SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, I completely shut down. 00:06.254 --> 00:09.997 [SPEAKER_00]: The crazy part is it just started around a plate of food. 00:10.557 --> 00:14.559 [SPEAKER_02]: But it had nothing to do with the plate of food. 00:14.879 --> 00:21.143 [SPEAKER_00]: What was really happening was I was feeling overwhelmed and my nervous system was hijacked, and I needed E.J. 00:21.163 --> 00:22.804 [SPEAKER_00]: to come in and support me. 00:22.904 --> 00:28.767 [SPEAKER_02]: And my nervous system was telling me, get as far away from Tara as you can. 00:29.068 --> 00:34.834 [SPEAKER_00]: So today we're talking about why couples miss each other in the moments they need each other the most. 00:35.374 --> 00:42.281 [SPEAKER_02]: And how understanding your nervous systems can change the way you fight, repair, and reconnect. 00:42.661 --> 00:43.642 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's renovate. 00:49.093 --> 00:58.381 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Relationship Innovation podcast where we help couples and individuals build the relationships skills they need so that they can have a relationship they deserve. 00:58.561 --> 01:10.211 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Tara Kerwin and my name is EJ Kerwin and today we're just going to offer to you a slice of our life of what we love doing us and we're not perfect. 01:10.311 --> 01:19.676 [SPEAKER_02]: of when conflict happens and what we learned and what we teach others and so therefore we have to do it ourselves. 01:19.797 --> 01:31.483 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just we continue to struggle with this because it's such a hard dynamic when you see your other person struggling and suffering like we kind of just wanna stay away from it. 01:31.543 --> 01:33.985 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really hard to lean into those moments. 01:34.565 --> 01:52.435 [SPEAKER_00]: And so again, with all the skills we have, all of the tools, all of the work we've done ourselves and with other couples, we still get into these less often, but moments where we definitely missed opportunities to support each other and then I get angry and then blah, blah, blah, blah, but we repair it much quicker. 01:52.535 --> 01:55.696 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to dig right in and first we're going to we're just going to tell you the story. 01:55.997 --> 01:56.237 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 01:56.337 --> 01:59.578 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I'll be curious to see if ours differ. 01:59.698 --> 01:59.938 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 02:00.138 --> 02:01.879 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, atmosphere is important. 02:01.899 --> 02:03.080 [SPEAKER_02]: So let me set the atmosphere. 02:03.360 --> 02:06.801 [SPEAKER_02]: One is we just got back from a lot of traveling. 02:06.841 --> 02:08.762 [SPEAKER_02]: We went to see Tara's family. 02:09.582 --> 02:10.983 [SPEAKER_02]: I got home for like two days. 02:11.063 --> 02:14.585 [SPEAKER_02]: Then I went to LA with our son for basketball tournament and my dad. 02:14.965 --> 02:18.106 [SPEAKER_02]: Tara held down the fort by herself with a 02:22.468 --> 02:23.548 [SPEAKER_02]: Here's the other important thing. 02:23.648 --> 02:25.529 [SPEAKER_02]: It was 11pm, right? 02:26.129 --> 02:28.450 [SPEAKER_02]: It was 11pm, we were laying in bed. 02:28.470 --> 02:30.771 [SPEAKER_02]: We had kind of like stacked off. 02:30.791 --> 02:32.971 [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't go to basketball practice that night. 02:33.832 --> 02:37.513 [SPEAKER_02]: And the kids, you know, we'd all kind of fended for ourselves with food. 02:38.133 --> 02:42.054 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, our two youngest kids come into the room and they're like, I'm hungry. 02:42.495 --> 02:46.516 [SPEAKER_02]: And my attitude is like, well, if we can go to the refrigerator and make yourself something, 02:46.896 --> 02:49.578 [SPEAKER_00]: And then our daughter said, no, I'm too lazy to do that. 02:49.698 --> 02:54.362 [SPEAKER_02]: So then Tara goes out and makes, makes them food and not. 02:54.422 --> 02:55.502 [SPEAKER_00]: A cute little snack board. 02:55.562 --> 03:05.870 [SPEAKER_02]: Peaches, apples, some nuts, which looking back like I feel like that was the beginning of the disconnection because like I'm sure Tara was out there was like, you know, whatever she's feeling. 03:06.148 --> 03:08.190 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was like, it's 11 o'clock at night. 03:08.230 --> 03:09.051 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm exhausted. 03:09.391 --> 03:10.112 [SPEAKER_00]: How did E.J. 03:10.152 --> 03:12.535 [SPEAKER_00]: like, I've been managing tenors for the last four days. 03:12.995 --> 03:17.400 [SPEAKER_00]: Did he not even think about getting dinner for our children? 03:17.480 --> 03:18.661 [SPEAKER_00]: I just needed a day of rest. 03:18.681 --> 03:21.844 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm already while I'm chopping up the freaking peaches. 03:22.305 --> 03:25.968 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm already like creating this story in my head that I have to do everything. 03:26.089 --> 03:26.529 [SPEAKER_00]: That was it. 03:26.549 --> 03:27.670 [SPEAKER_00]: My story was like, wow. 03:28.591 --> 03:29.591 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to do everything. 03:29.631 --> 03:37.113 [SPEAKER_00]: And if my old story, if you guys have listened to our podcast, it's like the one thing that like gets me very hijacked and into my flight favorites. 03:37.213 --> 03:38.053 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to do everything. 03:38.093 --> 03:39.713 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all on me all the time. 03:39.954 --> 03:45.335 [SPEAKER_02]: And in my head, I'm laying there in bed and I'm like, it's taking us like a freaking hour to watch a half hour show. 03:45.695 --> 03:48.215 [SPEAKER_02]: These kids are freaking almost 13 years old. 03:48.695 --> 03:50.256 [SPEAKER_02]: Let them feed themselves. 03:50.316 --> 03:52.376 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm going in the opposite direction. 03:52.416 --> 03:53.417 [SPEAKER_02]: Like they can handle this. 03:53.637 --> 03:54.277 [SPEAKER_02]: And so. 03:54.777 --> 03:55.317 [SPEAKER_02]: And then. 03:55.757 --> 04:09.920 [SPEAKER_00]: and just to really counter that to you like I'm like oh I don't want them to go to bed hungry and like it doesn't look like they're really like motivated to go into the kitchen and get food and I don't want them to go to bed hungry so like my little childhood neglect is also playing into this. 04:10.100 --> 04:10.440 [SPEAKER_00]: Got it. 04:10.620 --> 04:10.800 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 04:11.240 --> 04:19.982 [SPEAKER_02]: So then Tara walks in, she's made like this really beautiful little like chakudari board like there's some peach slices and nuts and like it's like pretty 04:22.270 --> 04:27.434 [SPEAKER_02]: So our daughter, I couldn't even see her, but I definitely know what happened. 04:27.654 --> 04:32.217 [SPEAKER_02]: She gave like a look and made some snarky comment to her brother. 04:32.377 --> 04:32.637 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 04:33.117 --> 04:35.499 [SPEAKER_00]: And Tara literally dropped it on the spot. 04:35.519 --> 04:38.261 [SPEAKER_02]: Drops it on the, on the, on the bed. 04:38.281 --> 04:42.824 [SPEAKER_02]: She did not throw it, but it had a certain level of frustrating forces on the bed. 04:43.704 --> 04:50.906 [SPEAKER_02]: and goes back into the kitchen and I thought she went into the bathroom and slammed the door because she was pissed. 04:51.526 --> 04:54.667 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm kind of frustrated with our 13-year-old daughter, 12-year-old daughter. 04:55.127 --> 04:56.027 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, too. 04:56.147 --> 04:59.028 [SPEAKER_02]: Why couldn't you have been appreciative? 04:59.068 --> 05:00.289 [SPEAKER_02]: That was so mean. 05:00.329 --> 05:08.371 [SPEAKER_02]: Your mom went up and she made that food for you and you were totally snarky, go apologize to her. 05:08.991 --> 05:12.092 [SPEAKER_02]: But then tears out there for at least five minutes. 05:12.872 --> 05:15.794 [SPEAKER_02]: and I hear kind of like, and I'm just like, what is going on? 05:16.674 --> 05:21.477 [SPEAKER_02]: So the terror walks in the room, and in my perception, she goes off on me. 05:22.198 --> 05:23.318 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't believe this. 05:23.779 --> 05:28.361 [SPEAKER_02]: You didn't do anything, like, like, just goes off on me. 05:28.521 --> 05:31.143 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, at first I'm like, why should you matter me? 05:31.964 --> 05:37.707 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I quickly go into like, I just like sorta check out, because I'm just like, are you kidding me? 05:37.767 --> 05:39.128 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's 11 o'clock at night, 05:42.690 --> 05:45.972 [SPEAKER_00]: So, yes, I come back in and now I'm just like hot. 05:46.853 --> 05:54.739 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm like, me a triggered me, like the I roll, like even when I do everything, I'm still not appreciated. 05:56.180 --> 06:01.504 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you see me stressed out and you're not, you're just still laying on the bed. 06:01.524 --> 06:05.867 [SPEAKER_00]: So you're not coming into the kitchen, you're not checking on me, you're not checking in, like are you okay? 06:05.907 --> 06:06.908 [SPEAKER_00]: What's going on, girl? 06:06.968 --> 06:08.669 [SPEAKER_00]: I can support you, what do you need? 06:09.249 --> 06:11.450 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I'm like, angry that that's not happening. 06:11.950 --> 06:16.031 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I think I was angry at you for not coming to check on me. 06:16.451 --> 06:20.272 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's when I went off like, how could you not have planned dinner today? 06:20.332 --> 06:26.773 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, this was my day of like, I just needed to like relax because I've been so overwhelmed and that's like, it's done, whatever. 06:27.273 --> 06:32.214 [SPEAKER_00]: All the things were said, our poor son was like trying to care to take us so we wouldn't fight. 06:32.254 --> 06:38.016 [SPEAKER_02]: And I got defensive and I listed all the things that I had done that day that I felt like she wasn't wrecking me. 06:38.976 --> 06:39.756 [SPEAKER_00]: not helpful. 06:39.897 --> 06:41.217 [SPEAKER_02]: It was where I was at. 06:41.357 --> 06:45.760 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I was feeling like I was getting attacked and so and that I was told that I did nothing. 06:45.800 --> 07:08.413 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I know it probably wasn't helpful, but it was my reaction was like, no, I actually did this, this, this, this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this 07:08.633 --> 07:09.814 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really hard, right? 07:09.834 --> 07:12.818 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it could have looked so different. 07:13.759 --> 07:14.559 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, we repaired it. 07:14.579 --> 07:14.940 [SPEAKER_00]: We're okay. 07:14.960 --> 07:15.981 [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about it now. 07:16.301 --> 07:22.608 [SPEAKER_00]: But it just want to normalize again, whatever the triggering stimulus is, someone gets reactive. 07:22.648 --> 07:24.970 [SPEAKER_00]: They go into their story of blame, anxiety. 07:25.010 --> 07:28.434 [SPEAKER_00]: The other person starts to feel really defensive and criticized. 07:29.075 --> 07:31.037 [SPEAKER_00]: And then everyone feels awful. 07:31.617 --> 07:32.197 [SPEAKER_02]: So, okay. 07:32.237 --> 07:34.078 [SPEAKER_02]: So, that's the story. 07:34.779 --> 07:41.882 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, we're going to sort of do an autopsy because I think like most of you got to relate on some level to this. 07:41.902 --> 07:51.167 [SPEAKER_02]: These are the type of like little things that like broadside us and surprise us and we don't deal with them great and they can end up like screw 07:54.688 --> 07:56.849 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, so what was really going on? 07:57.109 --> 07:59.630 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll start with just like obviously environment. 07:59.950 --> 08:00.931 [SPEAKER_02]: It's 11 o'clock. 08:01.231 --> 08:02.571 [SPEAKER_02]: We're both super tired. 08:03.292 --> 08:05.512 [SPEAKER_02]: We're both sort of like done with the day. 08:05.633 --> 08:12.715 [SPEAKER_02]: So so neither of us is sort of in a space to deal with an emotionally complex situation. 08:12.755 --> 08:14.396 [SPEAKER_02]: That's that's the first thing. 08:14.656 --> 08:21.961 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the biggest thing for me was we were just coming back to the house together for the first time in like three weeks. 08:22.582 --> 08:25.904 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's no structure, there's no plan. 08:26.064 --> 08:28.526 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like very unstructured, unpredictable. 08:29.386 --> 08:32.689 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it was like a transition happening that we didn't prepare for. 08:33.589 --> 08:38.513 [SPEAKER_02]: And then the feelings, I mean, so Tara, you're feeling in that moment. 08:38.933 --> 08:40.474 [SPEAKER_00]: The moment where I started to get... 08:43.462 --> 08:53.790 [SPEAKER_00]: I get very anxious and very overwhelmed and I get disappointed and confused and sad. 08:54.290 --> 09:03.257 [SPEAKER_02]: And then when Mia gave you that look and you got the trigger really hit, what did you need? 09:03.922 --> 09:06.144 [SPEAKER_00]: I needed you to be like, hey, babe, what's going on? 09:06.905 --> 09:15.073 [SPEAKER_00]: I needed someone to check in on me because I had just been in that place of kind of over-functioning, like, right, they should have done in their own food. 09:15.093 --> 09:16.834 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was my first fail. 09:17.635 --> 09:21.719 [SPEAKER_00]: But I needed someone to just come check on me because, obviously, I'm like activated. 09:21.739 --> 09:22.159 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 09:22.860 --> 09:25.482 [SPEAKER_00]: But everyone's staying away from me so then I feel like I'm on stir. 09:25.623 --> 09:26.804 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's like my fault. 09:26.824 --> 09:27.745 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I go into shame. 09:27.765 --> 09:28.125 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 09:28.596 --> 09:34.519 [SPEAKER_02]: And then for me, like, I feel frustrated because I know exactly what's happening. 09:34.599 --> 09:38.741 [SPEAKER_02]: I know that these kids are asking more than terror and used to give. 09:39.562 --> 09:54.530 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't feel like we need to be taken care of them all the time and then I feel resentful because I feel like I then have to just do it because terror feels like she has to do it. 09:55.190 --> 09:56.230 [SPEAKER_02]: and so I get resentful. 09:56.570 --> 10:06.333 [SPEAKER_02]: Then when she gets mad, I feel blamed, I feel frustrated, I feel uncomfortable. 10:07.074 --> 10:12.815 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, anger is something I'm learning to be at peace with, especially somebody I love. 10:12.855 --> 10:13.596 [SPEAKER_02]: I can kind of hang on. 10:13.616 --> 10:17.157 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's just like a rando, but from someone I love, 10:17.977 --> 10:20.760 [SPEAKER_02]: anger is is really overwhelming. 10:20.820 --> 10:35.633 [SPEAKER_02]: And so so the key point here is that is both of our overwhelms, both of our like frustrations, the feelings of blame, that automatically kicks in our nervous systems start to react. 10:35.673 --> 10:36.654 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you can see it. 10:36.914 --> 10:41.419 [SPEAKER_02]: You can see because her nervous system was like, go away, come back. 10:42.159 --> 10:44.400 [SPEAKER_02]: Mine is just like and get it all out. 10:44.540 --> 10:45.360 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, get it all. 10:45.480 --> 10:58.164 [SPEAKER_02]: Mine is like this mixture of like just freeze like I just like Just stare forward like and just so like you know my mind's telling me things like are you kidding me like this is freaking ridiculous 10:58.664 --> 11:19.741 [SPEAKER_02]: but really my nervous system is just like frozen like just wait till it passes and it reminds me of other times in my life of just like wait till it passes it always passes just white knuckle your way through it right and clearly so that that's what we said at the very beginning as our nervous systems are in conflict because hers is like 11:20.642 --> 11:36.762 [SPEAKER_02]: hers is moving it's kind of back and forth and like like follow me help me like comfort me then then back like this is like you know no no no no and then mine is just like and there are moments where I push back like 11:37.182 --> 11:39.944 [SPEAKER_02]: I come out of that and then, but they're in defensive ways. 11:40.004 --> 11:43.506 [SPEAKER_02]: I come back and I push back when she pushes towards me. 11:43.867 --> 11:46.589 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I unload the dishwasher, clean the dishes. 11:46.609 --> 11:49.190 [SPEAKER_02]: I cooked or whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah. 11:49.771 --> 11:54.514 [SPEAKER_02]: So both of our nervous systems, we're not choosing to do any of those things. 11:54.534 --> 11:56.836 [SPEAKER_00]: No, we have a special fun evening. 11:56.976 --> 11:57.176 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 11:57.796 --> 11:58.097 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 11:59.017 --> 12:08.202 [SPEAKER_02]: So, the biggest obstacle for those in the moment is if we were going to have any chance, which we weren't able to till the next day. 12:08.802 --> 12:17.567 [SPEAKER_02]: If we were going to have any possibility of actually finding resolution closer to the moment, 12:18.447 --> 12:32.272 [SPEAKER_02]: It would have taken one or both of us to settle our nervous system and then move towards the other person instead of pulling away or coming in a conflict way. 12:32.772 --> 12:39.495 [SPEAKER_02]: So I could have when she went to the kitchen, I could have settled myself. 12:40.836 --> 12:49.688 [SPEAKER_02]: That would have taken me being aware of the fact that I was unsettled because I think sometimes a lot of times in those moments I don't even know I'm unsettled. 12:50.449 --> 12:52.973 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just so focused on her like 12:54.423 --> 12:59.105 [SPEAKER_02]: on whatever she's doing, that I don't bring the focus back to myself. 12:59.165 --> 13:03.207 [SPEAKER_02]: So for myself, I could have settled my nervous system. 13:04.028 --> 13:13.492 [SPEAKER_02]: I could have then if my nervous system was settled, I could have realized, okay, actually she probably wants me to come out there and comfort her. 13:13.632 --> 13:20.956 [SPEAKER_02]: Even if she doesn't accept it, that act will probably be the most productive thing I could have done. 13:21.456 --> 13:21.696 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 13:22.976 --> 13:23.656 [SPEAKER_02]: about for you. 13:23.696 --> 13:28.017 [SPEAKER_02]: If you, if you were going to try to find a way that we could have more quickly. 13:28.037 --> 13:28.698 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 13:29.358 --> 13:33.339 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, for me, it's so hard because I get in that story so quickly. 13:33.559 --> 13:42.301 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm so hijacked by it that I'm just like, I can't be like, oh, let me calm down and, you know, because I know what, but I've been great. 13:42.341 --> 13:43.862 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, hey, I gotta let you know me. 13:43.902 --> 13:45.302 [SPEAKER_00]: I just really hurt my feelings. 13:45.342 --> 13:46.823 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I went into that place. 13:46.923 --> 13:47.103 [SPEAKER_00]: And I 13:48.615 --> 13:55.458 [SPEAKER_00]: started to feel like I was over-functioning and I got really frustrated and I started to create the story of blame and you know that would be great. 13:55.538 --> 14:06.503 [SPEAKER_00]: I could have asked you for support but I think like I have a really hard time because I get so activated coming down until you come in and seek me to make sure I'm okay. 14:06.523 --> 14:12.166 [SPEAKER_00]: Because like when I'm alone in it I feel like a lot of shame that I'm even in that place. 14:12.966 --> 14:15.248 [SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like it's harder for me to pull out. 14:16.568 --> 14:24.915 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, but what I did learn is like we didn't predict plan prepare for that transition and For me, I'm like had maybe had we had a better plan. 14:24.935 --> 14:30.000 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm recognizing that I really have to have a plan See, I love my anxiety. 14:30.140 --> 14:33.082 [SPEAKER_02]: I like predict plan prepare, but sometimes I'm just like 14:34.444 --> 14:51.700 [SPEAKER_02]: You also, we also have to be generally prepared that there's no way to predict planet prepare for every single event in our life, you know, and that like, like we have to develop and talk about systems, the flexibility, the flexibility to do it, like that. 14:52.721 --> 15:06.822 [SPEAKER_02]: Like my struggle is, if I do call my nervous system, and then I go out to try to come for you, there's a decent likelihood you will still be angry at me. 15:07.543 --> 15:35.524 [SPEAKER_02]: And I really don't know sometimes how to like I feel like I just have to sort of like white knuckle it until you're able to like it almost like exhaust itself like I just don't know like I'm still learning because because even though I might have sued myself and then came in I would only have so much bandwidth if you were still mad at me till I would get activated again 15:37.766 --> 15:42.515 [SPEAKER_02]: At this point at least I can't just be a complete and total rock to it. 15:42.956 --> 15:45.400 [SPEAKER_02]: I need to know that entry point with you 15:46.131 --> 15:50.896 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's hard because here's the thing, I came back after the next day. 15:50.916 --> 15:52.677 [SPEAKER_00]: And like here's what would have been really helpful. 15:53.678 --> 16:03.528 [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, so I tell you what I think would be helpful, but it's like until it happens and you're like in them because you can I just share something like, it's really hard for you when I'm uncomfortable. 16:03.648 --> 16:07.712 [SPEAKER_02]: It's really hard when you're expressing your on confidence to anger. 16:08.312 --> 16:29.643 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly and so like it's like most of the time each a you do get defensive and avoiding withdraw And so like I if you did come to me in the moment, which I know you're gonna start working on like I don't know What it would I feel like it would feel really like oh you love me and you're not scared of my anger and frustration And that's all I really need to know 16:30.524 --> 16:41.219 [SPEAKER_00]: Because in my head and for me that plan predict prepare like it's you know, I have a lot of anxiety and a lot of OCD And so I start to blame myself like, oh, we didn't have a plan. 16:41.279 --> 16:45.004 [SPEAKER_00]: I should have had a plan And so I do want to work on being more flexible. 16:45.044 --> 16:46.686 [SPEAKER_00]: We can't plan for everything, you know 16:47.447 --> 17:00.636 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's just like a such a hard thing for me because I'm such a planner and organizer and so like really working on like, hey, it's okay, like more self-compassion like so you didn't have a plan today and our kids were starving by 11. 17:00.656 --> 17:02.297 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's not your fall girl. 17:02.677 --> 17:15.765 [SPEAKER_00]: So me working on self-compassion and flexibility I think is going to help reduce my anger in those moments which then hopefully will help you come join me when I'm anxious or angry instead of avoiding it. 17:16.058 --> 17:30.411 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think it's like, it's a, I mean, this is what makes it feel balanced is like it's a joint effort like I'm really working on on those moments where I want to where we're like I go into it's really it's self protection. 17:30.451 --> 17:31.032 [SPEAKER_02]: I know like. 17:31.612 --> 17:37.456 [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes I feel like defensiveness gets like mislabeled like, and you perceive it as like I'm this anger. 17:37.476 --> 17:42.519 [SPEAKER_02]: I think you even said something about like you referred to the person in my life who is the angry person. 17:42.919 --> 17:44.180 [SPEAKER_02]: And you're just that person. 17:44.220 --> 17:45.141 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I'm not. 17:45.201 --> 17:45.601 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not. 17:45.661 --> 17:47.362 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm actually trying to not. 17:48.289 --> 18:11.429 [SPEAKER_02]: be that person and that my like when I do like I said at the very beginning and I completely shut down the shutting down feels to me like I'm keeping myself from from getting really angry because I don't want to but I'm working on like like I'm you know at the end of the day like it's a different time of life I'm safe like even if you are really 18:16.293 --> 18:29.498 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I will say this like people who don't have like a lot of like I guess childhood wounds and stuff like if you're just some partner that had like the secure attachment and like like you probably would see me stressed out and be like, hey, what do you need? 18:29.758 --> 18:31.138 [SPEAKER_00]: And it would just be a thing. 18:31.638 --> 18:39.301 [SPEAKER_00]: But because we both come from a lot of childhood wounds where we walked on egg shells and stuff like it's it's harder for us. 18:39.821 --> 19:09.494 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, you know, because I mean I see like you know I see other relationships in my family where someone stressed out and it's like not if no one's getting triggered or like let me help you it's all good That's you know, yeah, I mean, but I know like but but but within within a limit though because I also I also know people who that we've counseled who like don't have stuff and but eventually when those type of things happen even just within their relationship over years their tolerance for it and that tolerance like 19:10.094 --> 19:13.017 [SPEAKER_02]: It's really, it is, it's central nervous system tolerance. 19:13.157 --> 19:22.505 [SPEAKER_02]: Like when you face that, like over and over, just like when you face me shutting down, you become less and less tolerant of it, right? 19:22.945 --> 19:30.311 [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, so I can say two things, because I know that this just just came to me really quickly, and I know I'll lose it, because I'm in a positive range. 19:30.951 --> 19:38.638 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's interesting because, right in that moment, again, this was about a stupid plate of food and how my daughter reacted. 19:39.238 --> 19:44.599 [SPEAKER_00]: But like my negative core belief is like, right, I'm alone. 19:44.759 --> 19:46.219 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to do this all by myself. 19:46.299 --> 19:47.480 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't count on anybody. 19:48.480 --> 19:54.381 [SPEAKER_00]: And then for you, you have a huge trigger when people are angry or it looks like anger. 19:54.641 --> 19:54.981 [SPEAKER_02]: Blame. 19:55.261 --> 19:55.681 [SPEAKER_00]: Blame. 19:55.841 --> 19:56.241 [SPEAKER_00]: It's my fault. 19:56.461 --> 19:56.801 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 19:57.922 --> 20:00.342 [SPEAKER_02]: Whatever you're experiencing, you're saying is my fault. 20:00.382 --> 20:03.803 [SPEAKER_00]: And so like we have to get really, really good at like... 20:05.103 --> 20:20.245 [SPEAKER_00]: How do I put my stuff aside right now, not put it aside but be like, how do I like go in and the two deepest wounds we have are the things that are we're triggered in that moment like I'm in the kitchen doing it alone you're not coming to me. 20:20.997 --> 20:27.303 [SPEAKER_00]: And I really wanted just you to come to me and you're in the other room sitting alone like avoiding the anger. 20:27.603 --> 20:34.971 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm avoiding the fact that something else happened to you and now it's my fault that you are feeling the way you're doing. 20:35.011 --> 20:40.816 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're feeling that's my that's my that's the trigger deeper understanding because the more you understand that. 20:41.637 --> 21:07.897 [SPEAKER_00]: like I'll be able to be like because I'm like my anger is okay like it's okay for me to be angry I couldn't be angry when I was a little girl like I can't not be angry when I'm an adult like I'm my anger has to be okay within limits obviously you know but I also have to really have that compassion that like when you see anger it's a very low likely that you're going to come in and support me and then when you do I'm going to be so like 21:08.977 --> 21:10.939 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll know how much of our if that took for you to do. 21:12.080 --> 21:15.883 [SPEAKER_00]: And like I think for me when I'm like, hey, I know this is coming off as angry. 21:15.984 --> 21:17.625 [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I'm just really anxious. 21:18.406 --> 21:23.150 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know that right when I can explain that better to you, maybe that would be really helpful for you. 21:23.590 --> 21:38.975 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think a big healing thing would be, I think what it'll be really neat, and I think we have, we've had micro moments to this, is when you do have that reaction, I come towards you and try to be kind and loving and then you accept it. 21:39.595 --> 21:48.681 [SPEAKER_02]: Because then it shows me, oh, people can get angry and then you can come to them and they'll accept it. 21:49.362 --> 21:53.505 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they'll accept it, they'll be able to regulate themselves. 21:53.565 --> 21:58.828 [SPEAKER_02]: And so yeah, we're working through how to do it in the moment, which is the hardest thing. 21:59.369 --> 22:00.410 [SPEAKER_02]: I will give us credit. 22:01.310 --> 22:16.004 [SPEAKER_02]: What we did was we tabled it, we kind of like low-level code worded it, we stopped, we finished our show, we went to bed, we set our little prayer, and we woke up in the morning, and we took our daughter to her trip. 22:16.725 --> 22:26.212 [SPEAKER_02]: And then we talked about it in the car and we, it was still somewhat activating, but because we waited, our nervous systems had calmed from the night before. 22:27.153 --> 22:30.995 [SPEAKER_02]: And in about five to ten minutes, we processed through it. 22:31.696 --> 22:32.737 [SPEAKER_02]: And we had a nice day. 22:32.897 --> 22:34.498 [SPEAKER_00]: In two days, they were talking about it. 22:34.678 --> 22:34.878 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 22:35.138 --> 22:37.460 [SPEAKER_00]: And still having our own many therapy session around it. 22:37.540 --> 22:37.800 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 22:38.121 --> 22:39.321 [SPEAKER_00]: And still growing from it. 22:39.562 --> 22:39.722 [SPEAKER_00]: So, 22:40.482 --> 22:44.667 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, I think what, you know, what we realized is everything we've talked about. 22:45.047 --> 22:58.221 [SPEAKER_02]: I realized that I shut down because she was angry and I realized that she was tired and overwhelmed and, you know, we found ways to communicate it with eye statements, like not blaming each other in the next day. 22:58.501 --> 22:58.961 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. 22:59.382 --> 22:59.662 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 23:00.142 --> 23:14.831 [SPEAKER_00]: And I, again, just, when I over function, when I do more than I know I should be doing, I have to get really good at asking for support and for what I need, because I just plays into that old story that it's all on me. 23:15.651 --> 23:39.944 [SPEAKER_02]: So, so the question that we sort of pose to you at home is, you know, the next time your partner becomes reactive, the next time they push you away, the next time they shut down, could it actually be the moment that they need you the most, you know, and that's what we've come to is like, this is each for terror for myself, this is our, some of our biggest growing. 23:40.604 --> 23:42.966 [SPEAKER_02]: and we need each other in these moments. 23:43.026 --> 23:50.334 [SPEAKER_02]: We need to just understand what is going on for the other person, so we can at least support each other through it. 23:50.434 --> 23:55.399 [SPEAKER_02]: Even if it's not always in that moment, but I'm aware of this, this is Tara's work. 23:55.499 --> 23:57.060 [SPEAKER_02]: She's aware that it's my work. 23:57.781 --> 24:03.046 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's important for you guys out there to know what your partner's work is. 24:03.226 --> 24:09.491 [SPEAKER_00]: And the repair is simply like, man, I didn't like that I got so reactive and so stressed out. 24:09.551 --> 24:17.737 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I, I'm sorry that I come up so harsh and tors, you know, and your repair was like, I wish I could have been there for you. 24:17.757 --> 24:19.659 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I come towards you and come comforted you. 24:19.679 --> 24:24.823 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then we just learned and then we just mess it up again and talk about it on another podcast. 24:24.843 --> 24:26.184 [SPEAKER_00]: But we also get it right, too. 24:26.970 --> 24:39.774 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, the biggest theme from this is that, you know, we create emotional safety when our nervous systems know each other instead of react to each other. 24:39.854 --> 24:40.234 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 24:40.874 --> 24:45.656 [SPEAKER_02]: And we, in that moment, our nervous systems were reacting to one another. 24:45.716 --> 24:48.737 [SPEAKER_02]: Right now, like I feel very close to you talking about this. 24:49.217 --> 24:51.978 [SPEAKER_02]: This is when my nervous system knows you. 24:52.412 --> 24:56.635 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it would be so cute if people if we just like created this is such a great idea. 24:56.655 --> 24:59.397 [SPEAKER_00]: I had this as it's just my nervous system. 24:59.858 --> 25:01.699 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll apologize in a little bit. 25:02.220 --> 25:03.521 [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't that so cute? 25:03.541 --> 25:06.723 [SPEAKER_00]: But you just put it on and I'll be like, oh yeah, that's right. 25:06.863 --> 25:08.024 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's a nervous system. 25:08.044 --> 25:09.025 [SPEAKER_00]: You're nervous. 25:09.565 --> 25:10.026 [SPEAKER_02]: I know you. 25:10.046 --> 25:10.266 [SPEAKER_02]: I know you. 25:10.926 --> 25:21.114 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, as always, we really appreciate when you give us a rating, give us a review, share us with a friend, a family member, that means a lot. 25:21.794 --> 25:26.898 [SPEAKER_02]: We are passionate about doing this, we're passionate about helping people, we're passionate about helping couples. 25:27.378 --> 25:31.321 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, please check out all the stuff in our show notes, all the different offerings that we have. 25:31.821 --> 25:37.205 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and as always, just thank you so much for listening and take care of yourself, take care of each other. 25:37.225 --> 25:37.686 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye-bye. 25:40.384 --> 25:49.754 [SPEAKER_01]: me and you just sing and I'm a train me and you listening to the rain me and you we are the same me and you have