WEBVTT 00:02.980 --> 00:08.024 [SPEAKER_00]: Christian parenting. 00:08.305 --> 00:16.632 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Bible for Kids Podcast with your hosts, author Trisha Goyer, and author and co-creator of Veggie Tales, Mike Noraki. 00:17.072 --> 00:24.679 [SPEAKER_02]: If instilling biblical values and kids is important to you, this podcast will give you the resources, wisdom, and hope to do just that. 00:25.180 --> 00:28.903 [SPEAKER_02]: Now let's join our hosts, Trisha, and Mike for this week's episode. 00:35.134 --> 00:37.155 [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to the Bible for Kids Podcast. 00:37.255 --> 00:38.096 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Mike Naraki. 00:38.456 --> 00:39.496 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Trisha Goyer. 00:39.556 --> 00:46.740 [SPEAKER_01]: Today we welcome counselor and author Jennifer Marshall Bleakly to discuss her new book on the topic of grieving the loss of a pet. 00:47.180 --> 00:48.261 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for loving me. 00:48.741 --> 00:50.822 [SPEAKER_01]: We might need to get the tissues out. 00:51.162 --> 00:56.025 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just thinking that like we're going to make it through this podcast before we do that. 00:56.045 --> 00:59.286 [SPEAKER_01]: We like to start every Bible for kids podcast with a Bible first. 00:59.467 --> 01:00.067 [SPEAKER_01]: So Mike, 01:00.711 --> 01:08.718 [SPEAKER_03]: Alright, in today's verses from Psalm 145-839, the Lord is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich and love. 01:09.018 --> 01:10.540 [SPEAKER_03]: The Lord is good to all. 01:10.840 --> 01:13.042 [SPEAKER_03]: He has compassion on all he has made. 01:13.977 --> 01:23.879 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, Mike, Jennifer Marshall Bleakley is also the author of Joey, and the Poverbs, devotional theories, and project Solomon, and binding grace. 01:24.079 --> 01:29.900 [SPEAKER_01]: Jen has a master's degree in counseling and works at the Grief Council for several years before staying home with her children. 01:30.360 --> 01:37.161 [SPEAKER_01]: Somewhere in between the countless laws of laundry, library, story time, pettings used, and the blessed hours of nap time amen. 01:37.942 --> 01:40.262 [SPEAKER_01]: Jen discovered a way to combine her life long, 01:40.702 --> 01:44.844 [SPEAKER_01]: love of animals and her longing to encourage others with their passion for writing. 01:45.344 --> 01:50.706 [SPEAKER_01]: Jen often says that the animals have much to teach us about ourselves about each other in about God. 01:51.047 --> 01:54.668 [SPEAKER_01]: But in order to learn from them, we must pause and pay attention. 01:55.228 --> 01:58.470 [SPEAKER_03]: She also, the way that that's spelled, do you know the thing? 01:59.610 --> 02:00.871 [SPEAKER_01]: That was awesome. 02:00.891 --> 02:02.492 [SPEAKER_01]: It also really loves a good fun. 02:02.872 --> 02:09.736 [SPEAKER_01]: Jen lives in Broly North Carolina with her husband, Darrell, her two children, Andrew and Ella, and I'm, I can't say that word, Mike. 02:09.796 --> 02:10.757 [SPEAKER_03]: Monogery. 02:11.057 --> 02:12.878 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, I've passed a lot of pets. 02:12.998 --> 02:14.519 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks so much. 02:14.559 --> 02:15.539 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, rescue cat. 02:15.599 --> 02:20.182 [SPEAKER_01]: I slothed like bearded dragon and a very needy golden-rich, favorite. 02:20.202 --> 02:20.482 [SPEAKER_01]: Woof. 02:20.622 --> 02:21.743 [SPEAKER_03]: So, all right. 02:22.083 --> 02:23.784 [SPEAKER_03]: Jennifer, welcome to the Bible for kids. 02:23.804 --> 02:24.765 [SPEAKER_03]: So good to have you on. 02:25.445 --> 02:33.413 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for having me, and apologies for the wortingness of a, oh no, but you're playing those friends words in your buy-in. 02:33.573 --> 02:34.714 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm an Azure League. 02:36.515 --> 02:48.707 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, well, speaking of a, speaking of, you know, interesting things that, and words, but this, a bearded dragon, can you give us a little bit behind the scenes of what that is and how it gets along with the dog on the cat? 02:49.145 --> 02:49.625 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay. 02:49.645 --> 02:57.209 [SPEAKER_00]: So let me give a heads up to all the parents out there that might be considering a reptile, which I was a hard and fast, no reptile rule for a long time. 02:57.229 --> 02:58.169 [SPEAKER_00]: My kids wore me down. 02:58.989 --> 03:01.591 [SPEAKER_00]: Y'all bearded dragons live like 22 years. 03:01.711 --> 03:06.853 [SPEAKER_00]: So just FYI, eyes wide open going into the it's a long time. 03:06.873 --> 03:08.354 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have this dragon forever. 03:08.374 --> 03:11.195 [SPEAKER_00]: His name is Captain Tim. 03:11.415 --> 03:16.017 [SPEAKER_00]: I call him Jabba, like Jabba the Hut because he doesn't do anything. 03:16.037 --> 03:17.658 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just walk by the tank and like 03:18.358 --> 03:19.218 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you good, buddy? 03:19.278 --> 03:21.520 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this like what you thought your life was going to be? 03:21.600 --> 03:24.961 [SPEAKER_00]: But he seems to be 11 is best life, you know? 03:25.021 --> 03:26.622 [SPEAKER_00]: He gets food brought to him. 03:26.642 --> 03:28.763 [SPEAKER_00]: He lives under a UV lamp. 03:29.183 --> 03:30.184 [SPEAKER_00]: He's happy. 03:30.204 --> 03:33.505 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't interact a lot with the cat in the dog. 03:33.545 --> 03:34.546 [SPEAKER_00]: We tried that once. 03:34.666 --> 03:37.667 [SPEAKER_00]: It was almost catastrophic, so we haven't tried that again. 03:37.687 --> 03:39.228 [SPEAKER_03]: The liver, the cat in the dog. 03:40.309 --> 03:44.732 [SPEAKER_00]: At the time, the lizard, but now he sees a lot bigger now, different of us. 03:44.752 --> 03:52.999 [SPEAKER_03]: He could have a zone of pre-maning active for longevity isn't on the physical list for lists. 03:53.139 --> 03:56.362 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we just kind of threw the glass in or act a little bit. 03:59.565 --> 04:00.786 [SPEAKER_01]: We had a better lizard. 04:00.826 --> 04:03.468 [SPEAKER_01]: He would sit on the table when we play four games. 04:04.269 --> 04:05.089 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 04:05.330 --> 04:05.830 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 04:06.150 --> 04:10.434 [SPEAKER_01]: You did get a toe infection, and passed away after only five years. 04:10.454 --> 04:10.614 [SPEAKER_01]: So, no. 04:10.634 --> 04:11.074 [SPEAKER_01]: A toe infection. 04:11.094 --> 04:11.915 [SPEAKER_03]: From his toe infection. 04:11.935 --> 04:12.155 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 04:12.175 --> 04:12.295 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 04:12.335 --> 04:13.576 [SPEAKER_01]: Was it like, did he get into the gym? 04:13.596 --> 04:28.107 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it up, he picked it 04:28.347 --> 04:49.181 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, all right, the danger of the board games, but we're talking about pet loss and so you know, which I mean it's a real thing You know, it's it's really hard and I know many people feel that grateful for losing a pet is often minimized But there are part of our family so how could a little bit Jen? 04:49.221 --> 04:52.403 [SPEAKER_01]: Why do you believe pet loss needs to be recognized as real grief? 04:53.633 --> 04:57.755 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, as a grief cancer, my fundamental thing is grief as grief. 04:58.055 --> 05:04.197 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, losses loss, grief as grief, to love something and to lose it as to grief. 05:04.457 --> 05:10.739 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, for our kids, oftentimes, the death of a pet is their first experience with grief. 05:11.419 --> 05:21.903 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, not only is it hard in it of itself because we do love these animals, and they are part of our family, but for our kiddos, it's oftentimes their first experience with grief. 05:23.263 --> 05:33.977 [SPEAKER_00]: As parents, we have a wonderful heart breaking opportunity to walk with them through that grief to help them create a framework for dealing with loss going forward. 05:34.577 --> 05:38.743 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know those that haven't connected with an animal in a deep level might not. 05:39.103 --> 05:55.905 [SPEAKER_00]: fully understand how devastating this loss can be, but those of us who have, those of us who've bonded with the pet who have an animal companion, we know that this animal loss can hurt on a level that people that have an experience that just can understand to lose these 05:56.606 --> 06:01.148 [SPEAKER_00]: little physical manifestations of God's unconditional love in our life. 06:01.868 --> 06:06.170 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you think about your pets, the one presence you never have to hide from. 06:06.190 --> 06:10.872 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to worry about what you look like, which are rustnals like how, you know, anything. 06:10.912 --> 06:12.292 [SPEAKER_00]: They just day itself to your own. 06:12.312 --> 06:13.753 [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see each other go to the bathroom. 06:14.073 --> 06:14.874 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 06:14.894 --> 06:15.794 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 06:15.834 --> 06:19.397 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have that relationship, hopefully, with any of my doubts in your life. 06:19.998 --> 06:24.921 [SPEAKER_00]: And so losing losing the one that you feel like you just, you can be your complete self with. 06:25.542 --> 06:26.983 [SPEAKER_00]: That is, that's devastating. 06:27.043 --> 06:33.388 [SPEAKER_00]: And for kids, especially kids born into a family with a pet already, they've never known life without that pet. 06:33.888 --> 06:36.550 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's, it's foundation shaking. 06:36.611 --> 06:36.711 [SPEAKER_00]: It's 06:42.535 --> 06:46.797 [SPEAKER_00]: helping our children understand what grief is, identify what grief is. 06:46.817 --> 06:53.481 [SPEAKER_00]: And it can feel overwhelming because as a parent, we're grieving ourselves, you know, everybody's affected when a pet dies. 06:54.582 --> 07:00.885 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we're not only navigating our own loss, but then trying to help our children navigate there, so which can feel daunting. 07:00.945 --> 07:07.309 [SPEAKER_00]: And as Christian parents, I think it's a great opportunity to take out of this word as the comforter. 07:07.949 --> 07:13.997 [SPEAKER_00]: and our wonderful counselor and the one that cares for the broken hearted and lean on him so that our kids can lean on us. 07:15.263 --> 07:41.015 [SPEAKER_03]: And I, you know, obviously have experienced, you know, I'm a dog owner, I have been, you know, my whole life in our family and everything, but it was interesting because when I was a kid, we moved around a lot and our pets, I never got to experience or had to experience the process of putting down a pet, they just sort of, you know, we gave them a way or they went away to visit the proverbial farm of north. 07:41.655 --> 08:00.345 [SPEAKER_03]: right but I was never there for that and it wasn't until you know right before we got on the era we were kind of discussing my old dog banjo and you know Freddy's behind me now we you know Freddy replace banjo but uh uh banjo you know we we bought him when he was the kids were really young 08:00.925 --> 08:18.597 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and he grew up with our kids and, um, he, you know, just grew old and he, you know, we got time where he was suffering and, um, you know, we went into the vet and we were all there all four of us, my wife and I, my daughter and my son, when, when, you know, they put him down, we didn't want him to go away. 08:18.617 --> 08:20.838 [SPEAKER_03]: We wanted to be there with him when that was happening. 08:20.998 --> 08:28.203 [SPEAKER_03]: It was a really powerful experience for me, even having had pets, but never having been in that particular situation before. 08:28.244 --> 08:32.287 [SPEAKER_03]: And then just run, oh my goodness, am I doing the right thing by having my kids in the room? 08:32.307 --> 08:33.588 [SPEAKER_03]: It's great, great. 08:33.648 --> 08:39.972 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going on, but I have to think that helping them deal with that loss was probably a good thing. 08:40.713 --> 08:49.980 [SPEAKER_03]: And the deep human animal bond, can you talk about from your perspective what makes that relationship between people and their animal companions so powerful? 08:50.736 --> 08:55.921 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I truly think it is that that picture of God's unconditional love. 08:55.961 --> 09:06.792 [SPEAKER_00]: We know from Scripture that he get God created humans in his image, but we also know from Scripture that he created all of creation to bear his fingerprints and to point us to himself. 09:06.892 --> 09:09.494 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think our parts are no exception in the way that 09:10.075 --> 09:16.382 [SPEAKER_00]: They are just there for us at our worst, at our best, is such a beautiful picture of that. 09:16.842 --> 09:27.393 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times when people have maybe been disappointed by other people or hurt by other people, animals can kind of stand in and provide that safety that groundedness for us. 09:28.154 --> 09:40.569 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, goodness you look at therapy, animals, emotional support animals, you know, there really is something so grounding and so that unconditional love that animals can help us experience. 09:40.589 --> 09:43.132 [SPEAKER_00]: And for children, animals are often a playmate. 09:43.232 --> 09:47.177 [SPEAKER_00]: They're a companion as source of safety and comfort and routine. 09:47.958 --> 09:56.727 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, I think about the pandemic and when life got turned upside down, and animals became like this rhythm for us, okay, I got to get up and feed the dog. 09:56.747 --> 10:07.618 [SPEAKER_00]: I got to take the dog for, I got to change the litter box and how many people got into birding and feeding squirrels, like we were just needing some kind of rhythm and something to care for. 10:07.638 --> 10:10.480 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think there really is a beautiful, 10:11.221 --> 10:18.481 [SPEAKER_00]: Expression of just God's love for us but also us getting to care for his creation that animals can provide for us. 10:18.992 --> 10:20.072 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I just love it. 10:20.092 --> 10:21.213 [SPEAKER_01]: They're just so intuitive. 10:21.253 --> 10:24.314 [SPEAKER_01]: We have three dogs and two cats. 10:24.474 --> 10:27.895 [SPEAKER_01]: And some of the other one of my animals, like, you know, like, right? 10:27.935 --> 10:28.456 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 10:28.516 --> 10:30.336 [SPEAKER_01]: We need to know who she needs them. 10:30.937 --> 10:31.397 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. 10:31.877 --> 10:37.639 [SPEAKER_01]: But our daughter lives in whatever daughter's lives in Europe and her daughter's on the autism spectrum. 10:37.679 --> 10:41.080 [SPEAKER_01]: And when her daughter first came, she has, was having a lot of meltdown. 10:41.100 --> 10:42.201 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's probably a couple years ago. 10:42.281 --> 10:45.442 [SPEAKER_01]: And the little dog, our little girls, golden, 10:47.683 --> 10:48.843 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, she would have a meltdown. 10:49.284 --> 10:56.506 [SPEAKER_01]: She would crawl at very slowly and crawl beside her and Emily can end the dog and calm down. 10:56.546 --> 10:59.167 [SPEAKER_01]: And we don't like, we need to take this dog home with us. 10:59.207 --> 11:00.148 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 11:00.208 --> 11:02.669 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, no one's going to hug you with your dogs. 11:02.689 --> 11:04.089 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, no one taught the dog. 11:04.149 --> 11:06.951 [SPEAKER_01]: And so they're going to be wearing a couple of weeks for a month. 11:07.511 --> 11:09.932 [SPEAKER_01]: And my granddaughter is buying presents for all the pets. 11:10.872 --> 11:38.852 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she was like, oh, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like, yeah, she was like 11:40.367 --> 11:43.970 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think, I think first and foremost, it's identifying grief for what it is. 11:44.030 --> 11:53.798 [SPEAKER_00]: So if a child hasn't experienced grief before, just giving them language that, you know, we're grieving when we lose someone that we love, that's called grief. 11:53.958 --> 11:55.780 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's our body and our mind. 11:56.380 --> 12:05.127 [SPEAKER_00]: trying to make sense of something that's super hard to understand and trying to adjust to the loss of someone that we loved having in our life. 12:05.207 --> 12:12.833 [SPEAKER_00]: And so giving them language, educating them about some of the things that they might experience that grief affects our bodies and our minds. 12:12.994 --> 12:15.716 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we're going to feel really sad. 12:15.736 --> 12:17.577 [SPEAKER_00]: We will probably cry. 12:17.657 --> 12:18.238 [SPEAKER_00]: We might not. 12:18.258 --> 12:20.399 [SPEAKER_00]: We might feel really angry. 12:20.640 --> 12:21.961 [SPEAKER_00]: We might feel really guilty. 12:22.481 --> 12:27.382 [SPEAKER_00]: Gilt is a big one and it'll scare people like what, you know, I didn't do an office. 12:27.402 --> 12:28.663 [SPEAKER_00]: I wish I wouldn't have lost my temper. 12:28.683 --> 12:29.383 [SPEAKER_00]: I should have done this. 12:29.443 --> 12:30.143 [SPEAKER_00]: I should have done that. 12:31.184 --> 12:38.986 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really regret, very rarely as an actual killed, but regret and just explaining that's a very common reaction. 12:39.126 --> 12:44.287 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, it's just our minds trying desperately to make sense of what feels senseless. 12:44.867 --> 12:45.988 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we might feel 12:46.688 --> 12:54.652 [SPEAKER_00]: kind of dumb when there's so many feelings, sometimes it just shuts down and there's a numbness, a loss of interest in doing things. 12:54.692 --> 13:01.795 [SPEAKER_00]: So helping children make sense of some of the emotions, it can feel scary to have these big feelings to have 13:02.135 --> 13:08.777 [SPEAKER_00]: seemingly contradictory feeling sometimes and to have big contradictory feelings that happen like lightning speed. 13:09.338 --> 13:18.281 [SPEAKER_00]: And so normalizing that talking about the things they might feel in their bodies that you might feel really tired or have a hard time sleeping. 13:19.181 --> 13:21.942 [SPEAKER_00]: You might feel more hungry than usual or not want to eat. 13:22.082 --> 13:25.824 [SPEAKER_00]: And so really just a lot of education, validation, 13:26.624 --> 13:33.748 [SPEAKER_00]: and then helping them realize that the goal and grief is not to forget, the pet is not to move on. 13:34.548 --> 13:54.838 [SPEAKER_00]: The goal and grief is to remember in a way that allows us to carry the love forward, that we shared beautiful relationship and love with our pets, and that doesn't die with them, that remains, and so really integrating that love so that we can carry that forward. 13:55.418 --> 14:00.440 [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's some practical things that parents can do to help children with that. 14:01.000 --> 14:17.287 [SPEAKER_00]: I like to think of it as walking with our children through grief and not leading, not guiding, because all of us are going to journey through grief, but all of us are going to do so at our own pace, bringing with our own experiences, so grief is as universal as in a unique. 14:17.447 --> 14:20.748 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we're all walking at, but we're walking our own journey. 14:20.808 --> 14:21.809 [SPEAKER_00]: And so as parents, 14:22.669 --> 14:33.192 [SPEAKER_00]: really owning our own grief and making sure we're kind of tending to our own hearts, but then also providing opportunities for our kids to express their grief as well. 14:33.892 --> 14:43.035 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, just a couple of practical ideas might include inviting your children to help plan a memorial service for your animal. 14:43.075 --> 14:45.956 [SPEAKER_00]: When we lose a human loved one, there's a framework for that. 14:46.016 --> 14:50.457 [SPEAKER_00]: There's funeral services, people will come visit, bring meals, there's time off work. 14:51.317 --> 14:57.338 [SPEAKER_00]: Hot loss grief doesn't have that kind of framework, which is why it's often called a disenfranchised grief. 14:57.378 --> 15:04.980 [SPEAKER_00]: There's just not the same societal norms and rituals, and so we kind of need to create that for ourselves. 15:05.060 --> 15:08.821 [SPEAKER_00]: And so building that framework and the immemorial service is a great way to do that. 15:09.381 --> 15:18.583 [SPEAKER_00]: So inviting the children to participate and maybe somebody wants to read something, somebody wants to sing a song, it might be that you invite others or just keep it for the family. 15:19.383 --> 15:23.486 [SPEAKER_00]: is important to invite children to participate but not require. 15:24.527 --> 15:33.354 [SPEAKER_00]: Since everyone does grieve at their own pace and in their own way, you might have some that want to be very expressive outwardly and some that it's much more private. 15:33.855 --> 15:41.160 [SPEAKER_00]: And so holding space for both but inviting to help you participate in creating a service. 15:41.921 --> 15:43.803 [SPEAKER_00]: Another one I love to do is 15:44.818 --> 15:59.805 [SPEAKER_00]: We all have thousands of pictures of our pets on our phones right now, so taking some and getting those printed out and having tangible photos when we have lost someone we all know like that tangible you just wanted to touch something and so printing out. 16:00.145 --> 16:14.937 [SPEAKER_00]: as many pictures as you're willing to print and maybe on a table having little photo albums and inviting your kids to make little photo albums, so they have their own memory books, so they have something when they're missing that pet that they can physically touch and hold. 16:16.258 --> 16:18.901 [SPEAKER_00]: Arts supplies, putting out a bunch of crafts supplies, 16:19.401 --> 16:39.674 [SPEAKER_00]: can be really helpful in inviting kids to paint a picture, draw something, make something out of clay, in honor of their pet, something about their grief, keeping it kind of open-ended, but just inviting physical expressions of grief, taking what's inside and giving it away to come out, can be really helpful. 16:40.394 --> 17:01.640 [SPEAKER_00]: Another one that I love that we did after losing our second Golden Bailey was we planted a tree and Bailey's honor but at the bottom of the hole we put her collar and we had we invited our kids to write some notes and just thinking God for Bailey and so when we planted it we literally planted it and it was growing out of the love that we shared for her which was a really powerful. 17:02.520 --> 17:04.641 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah so you know things like that 17:06.381 --> 17:17.108 [SPEAKER_00]: providing opportunities for your kids to outwardly express what's in their heart all the while pointing them to the God that loves them so much and is present with them in their grief. 17:17.949 --> 17:25.714 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, we're going to have some more questions that we have for you on grief in that process, but we're going to take a short break and we'll be right back on the Bible for kids. 17:30.084 --> 17:40.234 [SPEAKER_01]: When all the stands between Jewish children and the Nazis that hunt them is the brave volunteers of the Dutch resistance, can one boy in his family really make a difference? 17:40.955 --> 17:53.900 [SPEAKER_03]: Set during the final months of World War II, time for courage is a gripping middle-grade historical fiction novel that delivers edge of your seat suspense and a powerful story of faith, sacrifice, and bravery in the face of fear. 17:54.620 --> 18:03.223 [SPEAKER_03]: Armed with ration cards, secret networks, and unwavering resolve, 13-year-old dirt can his family risk everything to save lives and stay true to their faith. 18:03.864 --> 18:07.385 [SPEAKER_03]: When doing what's right demands everything, courage becomes the only choice. 18:08.131 --> 18:12.790 [SPEAKER_01]: Time for courage is available now online or at your favorite local retailer. 18:16.524 --> 18:28.250 [SPEAKER_01]: The Bible for Kids Podcast is part of the Christian Parenthood Podcast Network, a group of 29 shows to help you let go of perfection and embrace the perfectly imperfect parent God created you to be. 18:29.010 --> 18:33.512 [SPEAKER_03]: Raising kids to know and love Jesus isn't easy, and we're not meant to do it alone. 18:34.012 --> 18:40.996 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why this network exists, to be your digital village full of encouragement, expert advice, and a few laughs along the way. 18:41.812 --> 18:50.397 [SPEAKER_01]: Over the last year, our podcasts have been downloaded five million times, but that kind of impact only happens because of generous listeners like you. 18:50.878 --> 18:56.101 [SPEAKER_03]: Christian parenting is a non-profit, and every resource is funded by people who believe in this mission. 18:56.561 --> 19:02.545 [SPEAKER_03]: If this show has encouraged you, would you consider giving back head to CPGIV.org to donate today? 19:02.945 --> 19:04.426 [SPEAKER_03]: That's CPGIV.org. 19:07.770 --> 19:14.572 [SPEAKER_01]: From the co-creator, veggie tales, and the voice of Larry the cucumber, comes and all new Dead Sea Scrolls Adventure. 19:15.073 --> 19:26.737 [SPEAKER_01]: When Michael and Justin are forced to hide moral and pearls identities in a class presentation, they turn to AI to generate odd scrolls stand-ins, Uncle Merge, and Aunt Purge. 19:26.757 --> 19:32.439 [SPEAKER_01]: As things spiral out of control, the boys begin to wonder if the cost of lying is worth it. 19:32.919 --> 19:40.422 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't miss Cyberskworld, book 13 in the Dead Sea Scrolls series, available now wherever books are sold. 19:45.924 --> 19:51.226 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the Bible for kids and we are here with Jennifer Marshall Bleakley talking about her book. 19:51.426 --> 19:52.847 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for loving me. 19:53.839 --> 20:02.067 [SPEAKER_03]: Jennifer, before the break you were talking about some rituals and some steps, you know, that it's helpful, you know, perhaps for families to take when losing a pet. 20:02.467 --> 20:05.670 [SPEAKER_03]: Your book aims to come alongside readers after they've lost a pet. 20:05.750 --> 20:11.075 [SPEAKER_03]: What are a few gentle steps someone can take when the loss still feels overwhelming? 20:11.636 --> 20:16.781 [SPEAKER_03]: As, as time, I'm sure it can many times just because these pets are so beloved. 20:17.794 --> 20:18.455 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 20:18.475 --> 20:21.017 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think first is so much grace for ourselves. 20:21.057 --> 20:24.040 [SPEAKER_00]: There is no timeline for grief. 20:24.220 --> 20:26.523 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to take as long as it's going to take. 20:26.683 --> 20:30.347 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think just a lot of patients, a lot of grace. 20:31.267 --> 20:33.029 [SPEAKER_00]: I certainly, if it's been. 20:33.930 --> 20:36.652 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, six to nine months, certainly a year. 20:36.852 --> 20:49.360 [SPEAKER_00]: And if the feelings of grief for getting more intense instead of less, it might be helpful to reach out to a grief counselor or support group just for a little extra support and validation. 20:49.680 --> 20:55.323 [SPEAKER_00]: Oftentimes with pat loss grief, there's a feeling like we kind of have to carry that alone. 20:56.084 --> 20:57.885 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times it's self preservation. 20:58.325 --> 20:59.026 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a visit. 20:59.526 --> 21:05.710 [SPEAKER_00]: passionately love animals and maybe have been a little burned by some comments about well it was just a pad or you can get another one. 21:06.511 --> 21:24.824 [SPEAKER_00]: There's kind of this self-protective thing that we do where we don't really want to share our pain and risk hearing that kind of stuff again and so it can be really helpful just to be in an environment where that your grief is validated and it is supported and so it might be helpful to reach out. 21:24.844 --> 21:26.986 [SPEAKER_00]: There are so many organizations now 21:27.786 --> 21:56.229 [SPEAKER_00]: When I first started a degree of counselor 20, some not that long ago, but I'm 20, some ideas, you know, there weren't that many resources for pat loss grief and now there are pet chaplains which I just discovered this a lot of churches have pat loss ministries and pet ministries a lot of counselors obviously are much more familiar with this there's a wealth of resources which can be helpful as well as just 21:57.130 --> 22:17.248 [SPEAKER_00]: giving yourself permission to grieve and talking to the God who loved you so much, she not only sent a thumb, but for you, but he also sent your pet to you so that he could love you through that pad and just continuing to process your grief with with Jesus and with other trusted people. 22:17.975 --> 22:18.576 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so good. 22:18.616 --> 22:21.683 [SPEAKER_01]: Now I know what element of the book is that it's written for a pets perspective. 22:22.605 --> 22:23.908 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so talk a little bit about that. 22:23.928 --> 22:26.914 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to inspire you to write for a pets perspective. 22:27.627 --> 22:33.369 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this book, I knew that I wanted to write directly to grieving pet people. 22:34.329 --> 22:40.971 [SPEAKER_00]: My poverbs, oh, that is a mouthful, grieving pet people and poverbs, my poverbs series. 22:41.331 --> 22:44.572 [SPEAKER_00]: That, you know, I love that series so much, because I love the good pun. 22:44.732 --> 22:48.593 [SPEAKER_00]: But whenever I would interact with readers who had specifically read that series, 22:49.513 --> 22:59.700 [SPEAKER_00]: the first thing they would want to tell me is about an animal they had lost and they would do so almost like I know I should be better by now but and that just really resonated me with me. 22:59.740 --> 23:07.185 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like it's gonna take as long as it's gonna take and that's okay but I realized we're all part of this club we never asked to join. 23:08.026 --> 23:15.992 [SPEAKER_00]: Those that I've loved and lost a day animal and so as I was praying about book number 10 it just became really clear to write to grieving pet parents. 23:16.652 --> 23:43.008 [SPEAKER_00]: but I had no idea what that meant and that's why there's five versions of this book on my computer in various forms from like a curriculum to a Bible study to more like a Christian living and it just wasn't something was missing and then there was one day my daughter just to paint the pictures so you know sometimes inspiration you don't know it's going to be an inspiration day but my daughter was getting ready to go and her senior trip to London. 23:44.208 --> 23:49.430 [SPEAKER_00]: So I was preparing to let my, you know, precious little baby girl get on an airplane and go across the ocean for their first time. 23:49.490 --> 23:50.611 [SPEAKER_00]: I was in a great headspace. 23:51.311 --> 23:54.673 [SPEAKER_00]: My husband was replacing a window downstairs in our family room. 23:54.713 --> 24:00.255 [SPEAKER_00]: So we had a giant hole in our family room that we were going to get the window right before going to the airport. 24:00.975 --> 24:05.997 [SPEAKER_00]: And my current golden sweet grey sea had just thrown up in the bonus room. 24:06.017 --> 24:07.718 [SPEAKER_00]: So just to paint that picture for you. 24:08.298 --> 24:10.159 [SPEAKER_00]: And I do it every. 24:10.619 --> 24:12.360 [SPEAKER_00]: Self-respecting mother does in that case. 24:12.440 --> 24:13.620 [SPEAKER_00]: I just went to make up the bed. 24:13.680 --> 24:33.506 [SPEAKER_00]: I needed something I could control for a minute So I'm in a room and making up the bed and I y'all I don't know I just happened to look down where our second golden Bailey used to lay and I just remember seeing her lay there all the time And I said because we lost her when she was six She died of a bowel obstruction that went undiagnosed. 24:33.546 --> 24:38.027 [SPEAKER_00]: It was traumatic and horrible for all of us, but I just said out loud 24:38.907 --> 24:41.269 [SPEAKER_00]: I missed you so much girl, we didn't have enough time with you. 24:42.310 --> 24:48.895 [SPEAKER_00]: And somewhere between like my heart and my ears, I heard, thank you for the time that we did have it meant everything. 24:48.915 --> 24:53.778 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I was weird, and now hallucinating crazy. 24:54.459 --> 24:59.683 [SPEAKER_00]: But then I kind of just heard, like, your love was softer than my softest bed. 24:59.743 --> 25:01.844 [SPEAKER_00]: More fragrant than my favorite sniffing spot. 25:01.984 --> 25:03.645 [SPEAKER_00]: More tasty than my obvious treat. 25:03.686 --> 25:04.206 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, what? 25:04.226 --> 25:05.647 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I run to the computer. 25:05.667 --> 25:07.749 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just start typing this. 25:08.509 --> 25:11.733 [SPEAKER_00]: And I kind of just typed a little bit like everything that I heard that day. 25:11.753 --> 25:17.899 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I sent it off to my editor and like this is my son crazy and like the rantings of a mom about to put her daughter on a plane. 25:17.939 --> 25:20.702 [SPEAKER_00]: But what if we write it from the pets perspective? 25:20.762 --> 25:22.784 [SPEAKER_00]: What if I, you know, it's that voice? 25:23.465 --> 25:28.148 [SPEAKER_00]: And she was like 100% so we kind of scrapped everything and started over. 25:28.288 --> 25:33.191 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think I said in the authors' note, I sat with an open Bible and an open imagination. 25:33.371 --> 25:39.035 [SPEAKER_00]: And just asked God, like, what would our animals tell us about how to survive without them? 25:39.055 --> 25:41.116 [SPEAKER_00]: And then just try to listen. 25:41.436 --> 25:42.757 [SPEAKER_00]: At times they got really happy. 25:42.797 --> 25:44.098 [SPEAKER_00]: I would sit on the floor with my 25:50.862 --> 25:58.690 [SPEAKER_00]: and take breaks from that, but it was a beautiful process and something I will always treasure getting to write this book with these two animals in my life. 25:59.860 --> 26:00.720 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's so cool. 26:00.800 --> 26:01.341 [SPEAKER_03]: That's so cool. 26:01.741 --> 26:08.284 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mentioned, you know, losing banjo a number of years ago was right during COVID. 26:08.724 --> 26:12.406 [SPEAKER_03]: And so, and my daughter was in law school at the time. 26:12.446 --> 26:13.766 [SPEAKER_03]: And she took it really hard. 26:14.167 --> 26:20.049 [SPEAKER_03]: And so, Freddie ended up being, you know, kind of a therapy dog, you know, to get to get through the law school. 26:20.329 --> 26:20.710 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 26:21.650 --> 26:45.255 [SPEAKER_03]: he's a pet now like you know and she's she's on a run she's you know live in she's not in house anymore um she was living at home during school but um Freddy has gotten so close to us you know because we're like empty nesters and he's like a little kid to us now and I can't imagine like what happens you know he's five now so I just can't imagine what that process is going to be like because I know probably there are there are there are certain pets I've known pet owners who 26:45.655 --> 27:06.180 [SPEAKER_03]: you know have have had a long line of pets and sometimes there's there was one or two that just stand out you just have this deep connection to them um yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I do I'm gonna hopefully I'm not gonna need your book for a long time I have no idea yes yes I can imagine I'm part of this uh this Facebook group it's the Wheaton Terrier Facebook group and uh oh 27:06.500 --> 27:27.293 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, if you get all the latest, you know, you just go on and you see, but when people you know, people post, they go on, they post, you know, when they lose all the time, there's enough people that people, you know, you just see statistically, you see people losing their pets and it's just so touching to see the tributes, and you just see the connection to of people just saying, you know, you know, kind of giving love back, you know, when they know how close that relationship is and how much it is. 27:27.973 --> 27:28.813 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. 27:28.853 --> 27:31.334 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we've had the opposite where we've had the hamsters. 27:31.354 --> 27:32.174 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a parody. 27:32.935 --> 27:34.015 [SPEAKER_03]: That's right. 27:34.375 --> 27:38.477 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, we're doing another funeral for a parody. 27:38.917 --> 27:41.578 [SPEAKER_01]: And then what was the chance for number 17, I think? 27:41.618 --> 27:42.098 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 27:42.138 --> 27:43.098 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly. 27:43.178 --> 27:43.678 [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly. 27:44.379 --> 27:46.419 [SPEAKER_03]: They're a strata. 27:48.140 --> 27:50.241 [SPEAKER_03]: Turns on how much an animal will look you in the eye, right? 27:53.195 --> 28:00.740 [SPEAKER_03]: So what do you hope people who have lost a beloved animal will feel you know ultimately when they read this book 28:02.362 --> 28:16.047 [SPEAKER_00]: I pray they feel seen and know that their grief feels validated and ultimately that they, you know, my hope is as people engage with the book and start at the beginning, by the time they get to the end. 28:16.907 --> 28:26.270 [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like they've taken this journey with their pet and they realize that as they get to the end, it's almost like their pet kind of directs them back and it's like 28:28.131 --> 28:35.935 [SPEAKER_00]: our pets were getting us ready for the day that they're not here by pointing us to the one that's been loving us through them the whole time. 28:36.295 --> 28:41.198 [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that's a total order for a book, but we sort of agree, God. 28:41.298 --> 28:44.140 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I think that that to me was just, 28:44.820 --> 28:59.347 [SPEAKER_00]: that realization that the God really does love us through our pets, you know, like sometimes he reaches through pause to touch our hearts and it's so comforting to me because that love doesn't die, that love never goes away. 28:59.507 --> 29:03.269 [SPEAKER_00]: And so in a way that helps us carry that love forward, 29:03.949 --> 29:18.860 [SPEAKER_00]: And so as we get another pet, as we engage with others after losing this pet, like we're taking that love with us into the new relationship with another pet, or whoever else, and just a way to kind of carry that on. 29:19.877 --> 29:33.950 [SPEAKER_03]: That's wonderful, and I love how you kind of phrase that, you know, because, you know, God speaks to us through His creation, so why not through His creatures, His non-human creatures, He's all so excited, and I love that, and I think that's so true. 29:35.135 --> 29:35.535 [SPEAKER_01]: That was good. 29:35.555 --> 29:37.838 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for being with us today. 29:38.238 --> 29:42.462 [SPEAKER_01]: How can listeners find out more about you in this book and your other books, too? 29:42.823 --> 29:43.323 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 29:43.624 --> 29:48.068 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, wherever books are sold, you can find, thank you for loving me and the other titles. 29:48.348 --> 29:56.777 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you can find me at line, at line, on line, at Jennifer Blakely, at Gen Blakely, and my website is JenniferBlakeley.com. 29:57.831 --> 29:58.211 [SPEAKER_03]: Awesome. 29:58.311 --> 30:00.593 [SPEAKER_03]: Jennifer, thank you so much for being with us today. 30:01.193 --> 30:01.854 [SPEAKER_03]: Listen to me. 30:01.874 --> 30:05.056 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure to follow us on Facebook or at Instagram at the Bible for Kids. 30:05.096 --> 30:07.897 [SPEAKER_03]: The Bible for Kids is now about 501c3 non-profit. 30:08.277 --> 30:11.680 [SPEAKER_03]: And we'd love to have you join us in our mission of reaching kids with the message of the Bible. 30:12.020 --> 30:16.062 [SPEAKER_03]: Visit thebibbleforkids.com to explore our store, donate, or learn more today. 30:16.382 --> 30:17.163 [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you next time. 30:19.679 --> 30:24.122 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for listening to the Bible for Kids Podcast with Trisha Goyer and Mike Nurekki. 30:24.482 --> 30:30.486 [SPEAKER_02]: Be sure to connect with the Bible for kids on Instagram, Facebook, and at thebibelforkids.com. 30:30.947 --> 30:35.209 [SPEAKER_02]: The Bible for Kids Podcast is powered by the Christian Parenting Podcast Network. 30:35.630 --> 30:38.151 [SPEAKER_02]: Find out more at ChristianParenting.org. 30:38.552 --> 30:41.634 [SPEAKER_02]: Our show is also available at waynation.com.