[SPEAKER_00]: What if the most disturbing part of an alien abduction isn't the abduction itself?
[SPEAKER_00]: What if it's what happens years later when the missing memories begin to come back?
[SPEAKER_00]: As Bud Hopkins continues his investigation into Kathy Davis, each hypnosis session recovers another piece of a puzzle that somehow becomes even more unsettling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Simple missing time gives away the detail medical procedures, strange lights become intelligent encounters, and memories that once seemed impossible begin connecting to one another with terrifying consistency.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then, Kathy remembers something that changes the entire investigation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not another encounter, not another examination.
[SPEAKER_00]: She remembers meeting someone.
[SPEAKER_00]: A child she has never forgotten.
[SPEAKER_00]: But can never explain.
[SPEAKER_00]: And from that moment forward, Bud Hopkins begins asking a question that would define some of the most controversial alien abduction research ever published.
[SPEAKER_00]: What exactly are these beings trying to accomplish?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the Hall of SkyPodcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are your host, I'm Stephen, and Kyle.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's Monday, Hall of Cold.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what that means?
[SPEAKER_01]: You've chosen us to kick it with you, to get you through this work week.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for that, we are forever grateful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kyle's coming in with the conclusion part three to the Copley Woods encounter.
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to listen to part one and two.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm hoping that if you're here, you already have.
[SPEAKER_01]: If not, go back and do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's your homework assignment before you start this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go and get that knocked out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're caught up and where everyone else is.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... we got to get through a little bit of housekeeping here so hang out with us check us out at all our social media join the holocult join the community it's a great time everybody has a good time if you have an paranormal experience you'd like for us to feature on a future show Kyle's got the details for you
[SPEAKER_00]: I do.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Just like that, we are back all occult.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kyle's ready to launch us into the conclusion of the coply woods encounter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we want to reiterate that this is the big episode with the trigger warnings.
[SPEAKER_01]: So be mindful of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: for the old children.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is the ear muff episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we don't need him here and all this weird stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: But last episode, we left off with an abduction where Kathy gets kind of tricked into, which is weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: She gets tricked into being thirsty that she needs to go back to the station for.
[SPEAKER_00]: she goes doesn't end up in station ends up in a UFO where she still thinks she's inside the station talking to a clerk.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to touch on it last time, but I forgot to mention it spoiler alert.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you haven't seen Disclosure Day, the movie also touches on this phenomena.
[SPEAKER_01]: of them manipulating reality around us to essentially make us feel safe and coax us into doing what they want us to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So another one of those little nods of the Spielberg,
[SPEAKER_00]: knows what he's talking about in the know it's gross then there are there are so a couple scenes and they were like oh yeah I'm excited to see it I haven't seen it but I will but back to Kathy and her chaotic life so
[SPEAKER_00]: They go in for another regression, picking up after she gets home from the store.
[SPEAKER_00]: She says she can feel a throbbing in her head.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just past her nose, which she assumes is her sinuses.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even stating that if it keeps hurting her, she'll just take some aspirin.
[SPEAKER_00]: She can hear a high pitched humming at this point and her arms feel funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: She feels creeped out and keeps looking at the window.
[SPEAKER_00]: When all of a sudden she hears her name again.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting how when she describes her name, she always states that it's loud.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as I kind of reference myself here, you know, whenever I was in the same between state, I would hear like an urgent whisper, it was definitely quiet, but somebody would
[SPEAKER_00]: She also recalls a sounding like two people saying it at once, which is very bizarre.
[SPEAKER_00]: At this point, Kathy's losing her shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't want to go by any window in the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: But she wants to go downstairs and call her friend that bud head in her doaster, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: mostly for moral support, as she's calling, she sees a light in the house, which scares her even more.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, as far as, you know, I can tell this may be a more in-depth version of what we talked about earlier, when she called that friend before, I think they are replaying this memory and really
[SPEAKER_00]: and she sees the light and her mom plays it off like like it's lightning at this point like we discussed she brings her kid and they lay down she gets she she turns on the radio the TV the lights and all of a sudden she feels good her body tingles and her head is floating it's almost like they're injecting her with some type of euphoria
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, to relax or it's, you know, it's almost like going into fucking surgery.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whether you chill, hopped up on drugs, we're there, but you're not, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you, again, you hear it in all sorts of abduction cases, and she stated it in her previous regression where when the man
[SPEAKER_01]: was looking over her.
[SPEAKER_01]: She felt such intense fear, which immediately melted away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Peace and calm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, oh, hey, this isn't as bad as you think it's going to be, you know, just just it's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right, just relax.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now at this point, Kathy hears a heavy breathing that isn't hers.
[SPEAKER_00]: She also feels a thumb, which were what she describes as a thumb, under her left breast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, she asked bud if he touched her, and he's like, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now her now she can feel that same pressure on her right under her right breast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then she feels it by her.
[SPEAKER_00]: She feels it on her ribs by her heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: She can smell burning matches.
[SPEAKER_00]: but asked if they, they poked her through her nightgown, and she says she doesn't think she has any clothes on at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's really cold, and they're doing something to our chest.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said she can feel cold fingers touching under her breast and to her sides.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, she feels her sinuses draining into her throat.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, it almost, which I don't think is the case, but it almost makes you feel like they're injecting something into her through her sinuses.
[SPEAKER_01]: The smell of burning matches is weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is like a sulfur smell, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which you hear pretty commonly in.
[SPEAKER_00]: demonic investigation, which could be, you know, one of the reasons why there is a subtle crossover between the belief that aliens are in conjunction with demons.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's not, again, it's not the first time you hear that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of you hear, especially people that have been involved in recovery efforts for down to UFOs, them talk about the beings themselves having a smell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not all the time, sulfur.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sometimes ammonia, sometimes chemically, but
[SPEAKER_01]: the fact that it kind of all bleeds together is very interesting and the fact that she is smelling burnt matches, but you assume is like a sulfuric smell.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which I think another fair point and it may not be accurate, but it's something that we should all consider in this journey of ours is that like in a Steve point made a good point, that a lot of people do affiliate them with a
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to keep in mind that the human memory is fickle, it's not, it's not 100% reliant.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe, I'm not saying this is the case, but maybe people are describing what the smell is to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe, maybe there is an actual smell, it's just that everybody is describing it differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because like you said, like a million sulfur have very harsh smells.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, in chemicals is a harsh smell.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe it's possible that they're all describing that actual specific smell, but they're describing it in the ways that they know how to describe it best.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not saying that's the case, but I think it's a possibility that we should all consider when we analyze situations like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is, it's so weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Kathy continues on, she explains how she feels a pinching in between her eyes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as they move forward with this regression, she says she feels like she's on her belly and there's a collar around her throat.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then she goes on to say, she must be dreaming because she sees all the guys in her room.
[SPEAKER_00]: She notices one in particular saying,
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she notices one in particular, and she's like, it's smiling at me, so it's not so bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's literally what she says in the regression.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, oh, this is smiling.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, yeah, it's got to be good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not so bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to do terrible, horrible, horrific things to me that I have to block out for my brain.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Esther, if she's scared, and she's like, no, I'm not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because this guy is smiling, and this is obviously just a dream.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's literally done, like, she's convinced herself that whatever this is is just a dream.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not a big deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: A few months after this, another situation occurs.
[SPEAKER_00]: She calls buttons, starts telling him how one day she started to feel creeped out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: the series of events that play out because a lot of her encounters start with a very achy feeling.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it makes you almost further process your life like, oh man, I know that I've had those moments.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we should trust our gut a little bit more.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh huh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, anyways, she starts to feel creeped out, like something was in the house with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Constantly thinking she's seeing something from the corner of her eyes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, hey, that, yeah, hey, that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, of course, she goes to look and there's nothing there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Around five in the morning, she's welcome up by a screen.
[SPEAKER_00]: She gets out of bed, runs to the children's room, once she gets there, and this is fucking creepy, everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once she gets there, she sees Robby or son lying there pale and wide-eyed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy begins to comfort him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, this isn't the one I was thinking of.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy begins to comfort him and is like, oh, you had a bad dream.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Robby looks her dead in the eyes and was like, listen, this was in a dream.
[SPEAKER_00]: A man with a big head came in, my wall.
[SPEAKER_00]: When in my closet and kept going back and forth, and he wouldn't let me move.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where I was said the man wanted Tommy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Tommy was the one, if you guys were called from the first episode, that was in Kathy's belly as she was having the bizarre phone calls and then when he was born, the phone calls stopped.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's the one that has the speech impediment.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the one that they're interested in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy pointed out how bizarre it was that during all of this commotion, Tommy didn't wake up at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Robbie's screaming loud enough to wake her up, and Tommy doesn't budge.
[SPEAKER_00]: She igno...
[SPEAKER_00]: she also decided to put Robbie in her room and go back for Tommy and when she does this, she acknowledges, which I do appreciate.
[SPEAKER_00]: She says, I could have been paranoid and all, but I swear a bright light in the closet, or she's seen a bright light in the closet out of the corner of the of her eye, which was where Robbie was saying the light was going, or the, you know, the being was coming from, big going to, big head.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... another interesting note here is that when she looked towards the closet for the light source she's like it wasn't there however
[SPEAKER_00]: She describes it as like it put a stain on something and I like it's almost like the way I picture it is it put a stain on reality she's like it's almost like you can see the haze the fading of light still in the closet almost like it stained reality yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: we all we all can picture this in our minds I exactly what I got as soon as you start talking about that close my eyes and I'm like it's it's exactly it's exactly what like how you describe like if you've ever been in like almost perfect darkness so you've been in a cavern or cave and that'd be shut shut the lights off
[SPEAKER_01]: And as as the last source of light goes out, you'll, your eyes and your body will almost like see the, um, like whatever's left over of that light, still there as it's fading to the lights completely gone, but your, your bodies just.
[SPEAKER_01]: almost like like it's manufacturing it to a certain point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, of watching it slowly fade away.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's remnants.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or you could be, you know, describe or explain by your eyes kind of adjusting the darkness because that light source was there in your eyes or doing it's thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, poor Robbie, he's so fucking terrified at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: For the next 24 hours, he will not go upstairs in the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: He even lets himself a few times because he refuses to go use the bathroom.
[SPEAKER_00]: Robbie goes on to tell Kathy that the man with the big head and disgustingly described as the man with the big head and the invisible mouth,
[SPEAKER_00]: because when we talked, nothing moved, but I could hear him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell a kinesis, tell a calaptic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, months later, Kathy would walk into the boys' room.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what is creepy for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Months later, Kathy walks into the boys' room in the morning and finds that Tommy is completely covered in blood.
[SPEAKER_00]: but covered in a ton of blood.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was everywhere, all over the wall, the bed, his face, everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was it his blood?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and think about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So much so that immediately Kathy takes him to the hospital.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you can only leave it so much blood.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's not, like, she's not overselling it by, like the others, a little puddle of blood.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not like, oh, he had a nose bleed and then I, it's there was a massacre that's basically what it, it feels like goes to the hospital, ironically enough, he suffered a massive nose bleed, which is incredibly creepy and I'm going to tell you all why not saying this is related, but here's another parallel.
[SPEAKER_00]: that I and my mother can recall my childhood.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got bloody nose at all time when I was a kid.
[SPEAKER_00]: But one night in particular, I'm laying in bed asleep and I wake up because I had a massive bloody nose.
[SPEAKER_00]: So much so that blood literally pulled over my clothes die.
[SPEAKER_01]: You were a doctor by aliens.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my mom remembers this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we just talked about this, not that long ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: 100% of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I swear on everything that I have had that happened to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, the doctor actually discovered a small hole high up inside Tommy's nostril, which we've talked about this happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Telling Kathy that Tommy must have punctured it with a pencil or something sharp.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy's like, no, I never do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: He even goes on to say, well, maybe he did it with his finger.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, he's like no.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a little fat kid.
[SPEAKER_00]: His hands are extremely chubby and his nose is petite.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not fitting that fucking toaster up his nose.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even even if you had skinny little pencil finger.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what what are the odds you're gonna shove it through your fucking
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never been digging.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dig in that deep.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: To where I bleed courts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[UNKNOWN]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: So two years later, another event unfolds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Robbie comes into Kathy's room at night and asks to sleep in her bed because he keeps seeing a red tarantula moving slowly down his wall.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was around red light with little rays of light coming off of it, which look resembled legs to Robby.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she does.
[SPEAKER_00]: She lets Robby, you know, probably assuming this is like a little nighttime hallucination dream type shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's rob you in her bed, everybody goes to sleep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy is sitting there, watching TV, when Clear is Day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Clear is Day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Clear as Day.
[SPEAKER_00]: She sees a small gray figure walk past the open door.
[SPEAKER_00]: and she's like the TV is right next to the door.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm already looking in that direction, and I just see it crossing front of the door.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, it didn't even, it didn't even pay me no fucking mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: He just walked right past.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nope.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, when asked about, are we at, when asked Kathy said it appeared to the alien that had come from the boys room, which is where Tommy still was.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now she began to wonder if the red tarantula was a play to get Robbie out of the room and give them access to Tommy.
[SPEAKER_00]: but suggested she asked Tommy about weird dreams and the poor kid told her about the boogie man coming into his room.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's like, all right, let's approach this differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy want you draw three figures.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously making one of them a grave grailian and see what's up, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she shows him to Tommy, that's the boogey man.
[SPEAKER_00]: The gray aliens the boogey man, furthermore, Robbie is like, that's him, the man with the invisible mouth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fuckin' big head, big head.
[SPEAKER_00]: That night, Tommy, you know, Tommy, or the night, Tommy had his really bad bloody nose.
[SPEAKER_00]: She ended up having a dream where she was lying on a table and she was laying on a table of some time.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's not sure what it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: She assumed it was a table because she was flat.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she said her night gown was pulled all the way up to her breasts.
[SPEAKER_00]: The male with large eyes was there and asked her how she was feeling.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said she felt fine, a little drowsy and crampy, but not that she felt fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said good and padded her belly right at the belly button.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's terrifying.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said that he was really, really gentle, which made her more comfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: When she got up in the morning, she noticed something very strange.
[SPEAKER_00]: She always goes asleep with a night gown and panties.
[SPEAKER_00]: their buyer hip.
[SPEAKER_00]: Furthermore, the covers are pulled up and our paintings are on the outside.
[SPEAKER_00]: On top of the covers, nope.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, listen, is it possible that I took them off while sleeping?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but I've literally never done that before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's classic upductions in area where people are taken and it's almost like
[SPEAKER_01]: these beings don't know how to dress humans or they don't care because you hear about people who have their, they'll have their pants on inside out or they'll have their shirt button all cock-eyed, you know, or either they're, like I said, either they don't know how which you wouldn't think is a thing because they're this advanced species, tell the
[SPEAKER_01]: or they're in a super quick rush to get people back to where they need to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, she also said that that next day, she was very crampy and her lower abdomen right by her left over.
[SPEAKER_00]: They kind of just assumed it was her having like a little bit of a
[SPEAKER_00]: Now time moves forward a bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Things happen to family members throughout this period.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're going to focus on Kathy.
[SPEAKER_00]: One day, while her and Bud were hanging out, they got to talk and and Bud commented on how lucky she was to have Tommy and Robbie.
[SPEAKER_00]: She looks directly at Bud and says, bud, you know I have a daughter too.
[SPEAKER_00]: he just kind of sits there dumbstruck she continues I don't know where I don't know where she is and I never gave birth there but I know I have a daughter so of course but it's like well how do you know this she's like I know I have a daughter and I know that I've
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we go down that road, we're gonna time travel a little bit and go back and time when Kathy was 16.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bugges is talking to her about dreams and whatnot, which Kathy remembers having one dream when she was younger of her being in an old truck with a CB radio.
[SPEAKER_00]: When all of a sudden the lights in the truck all shut off and she looks up to four lights
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like, if you've been in a truck like this before and she's like, I, maybe it was Grandpa's truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: It kind of feels like Grandpa's truck, but I'm not sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but just, you know, we'll talk because Greg, Greg, I'm assuming Grandpa's not around regardless if he is or isn't, but it's like, why don't you go investigate that a little bit?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so she goes and talks to grandma.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I think grandpa is still around anyways.
[SPEAKER_00]: Grandma, unknowingly, opens the door to a ton of forgotten memories.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nana said, don't you remember the boys who turned up that night?
[SPEAKER_00]: The ones you've been talking to on the radio all night long?
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially the blonde boy, the blonde boy that you like so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: that they had been camping because she's on the, you know, her and her friends are on the CB radio talking and I'm talking to this group of boys.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they said, you know, hey, we've been camping in this particular place on this little campsite and Kathy even noted like she's like his bizarre because the next day, we go to where roughly where we think they were camping.
[SPEAKER_00]: and there's no campsites at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: They couldn't even figure out how that group of boys found them that night because out there there were no like road signs.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a big campground area.
[SPEAKER_00]: So no road signs, no nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, the only thing that they did
[SPEAKER_00]: The only thing they did was talk to them on the CB radio, never telling them exactly where they were staying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy is like, where we were staying, we didn't have, you know, have road names or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said they showed up in a clunky old car.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, the one thing she did say to them, because they're wanting to hang out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think she says
[SPEAKER_00]: So, as she says that they had showed up in a clunky old car with almost no working lights on.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they explored this more and found out that Kathy and a few other people had been messing around with the CB and the boys on the line were asking to come visit them.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said if you can find us you're more than welcome.
[SPEAKER_00]: After some time, everyone else goes inside the cabin and Kathy stayed out there and she starts to notice
[SPEAKER_00]: The boy on the C.B.
[SPEAKER_00]: said, I see you, Kathy gets out of the truck, they get out of their car, and they meet half way, when they all end up going inside the cabin, Kathy said, the blonde one was really cute, and she felt like he liked her too.
[SPEAKER_00]: At this point, they all go into the cabin, and it's really, really late.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy thought that everyone would be asleep.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, everyone was awake, which was weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: But everything went great.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said all of them and the four of them, or she said all of the the boys who had showed up were in blue shirts.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they said they were part of a band.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy's like, oh,
[SPEAKER_00]: I can music.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love rock and roll.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, that's what we play.
[SPEAKER_00]: Convenient.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's some of your favorite bands?
[SPEAKER_00]: And she tells them her favorite bands and they're like, yeah, that's the type of music we play.
[SPEAKER_01]: Convenient.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone there that night basically remembers the same details of the event.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most of the details are bizarre.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one remembers any of the four besides the blonde one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when they describe
[SPEAKER_00]: how these individuals look, the only one that they can describe is the blonde one, because when they come into the cabin, the blonde one comes in, like you would, he's interacting with the family and the other two, they cannot remember what they look like and the other
[UNKNOWN]: weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: Weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they can describe the blonde one to a T. They also said when asked if they wanted anything to drink, the blonde dude said, we'll have whatever you have the most of.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, well, we've got, you know, they said, like, water die at Pepsi and beer, but we have the most beer, and he's like, well, we'll take that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're getting drunk.
[SPEAKER_00]: They also remember that they stayed there for hours that night.
[SPEAKER_00]: but decides at a point to revisit that night we talked about where they were all in the car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's basically all they remember from this bizarre wooden counter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we're going to go back to the first episode where we talked about that night were Kathy and her two friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was Dorothy and Roberta were driving around.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you remember Steve, they see the the light
[SPEAKER_00]: and they recall Roberta being in the back seat on the floor terrified hiding so we're gonna revisit that now oh that's probably not fun probably not fun so he puts Kathy in regression and begins to explore this memory she recalls driving around with her friends and it was about two in the morning and they were just at looking for something to do
[SPEAKER_00]: When all of a sudden they see something out, the window in the sky, Kathy jokes about how it's a UFO, and they said when she does this, Roberta starts to freak the fuck out, just starts spashing, and Kathy and Dorothy start kind of giggling, like, oh yeah, you know, I don't know, I just...
[SPEAKER_00]: Roberta's back there losing her shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ah, ah.
[SPEAKER_01]: She scared of you, a foes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, silly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a UFO.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy said she feels fine, almost even excited.
[SPEAKER_00]: They slow the car down and start looking at the subject in the sky.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said it's it's it's darting around from east to west west to east.
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost like it's teleporting the way she describes it because it'll be like a flash
[SPEAKER_00]: Then she describes a bright flash in the car inside the car, which makes me instantly think of certain no face when they're dealing with that thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: These flashes of lia inside the building.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now, at this point, all of a sudden, she's extremely cold, and no one is moving.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy can't see anything now, but she knows that she's still in the car because she can feel the car around her.
[SPEAKER_00]: But she said, Dorothy isn't here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the same time, Kathy isn't afraid.
[SPEAKER_00]: And her hand is on the door, she can feel the door.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now she wants to get out, but she can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Her sight ends up coming back, but she's extremely confused because she can feel everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: She can feel herself breathing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she can feel everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: She can see, she can hear, but she can't move.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, everything is cold and stiff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy is getting mad because she wants to know where Dorothy is and see if Roberta is still in the back seat because she knows Roberta is not in her up she knows Dorothy is not next to her.
[SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't know about Roberta because Roberta is in the back seat and she can't turn around to see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now in the blink of an eye, Dorothy is outside the car and they see the life fading off.
[SPEAKER_00]: but thinks that Kathy was initially abducted first because of the initial flash of bright light.
[SPEAKER_00]: She gets returned and then Dorothy is taken.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they backtrack in the memory.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy said at one point, it was right over the car.
[SPEAKER_00]: They start to kind of peel back to layers here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she recalls an object being right over the car.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it must at this point, the object must have turned the lights off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because she said it was blacker than the night sky.
[SPEAKER_00]: And much bigger than the car.
[SPEAKER_00]: She described it as a black cloud above the car.
[SPEAKER_00]: At this point, Capy starts to get really upset because she remembers pain.
[SPEAKER_00]: The flash of light goes off in the car and she keeps saying, I don't like it, it hurts.
[SPEAKER_00]: It hurts my stomach.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like I'm being squeezed.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like my legs are being pulled off my body from the waist down.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said she feels like she's laying down and her legs are floating, like she's being pulled really hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: At this point, she refused to open her eyes during the regression.
[SPEAKER_00]: She says she's hot from the waist down and cold from the waist up.
[SPEAKER_00]: She starts to describe how she feels like she's getting, she's getting one of those
[SPEAKER_00]: she can feel cramps in her uterus down very low, it hurts her now and she said there's a lot of pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like something is pushing and wiggling in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said it feels like a finger inside her.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like it's right above her bladder.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then all of it stops for a minute.
[SPEAKER_00]: then she feels the same thing in her chest under her right breast and all of a sudden she can hear a sucking sound like a vacuum.
[SPEAKER_00]: She describes it like a straw in an empty glass.
[SPEAKER_00]: then she can feel pressure on her side and hear that noise.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bud finally gets her to open her eyes inside the UFO, and she doesn't see much.
[SPEAKER_00]: She sees a balcony, like a balcony like section, maybe a doorway, and she heard someone in the room with her, but she can't see it.
[SPEAKER_00]: She can tell she's lying down and that her legs are up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, it feels good.
[SPEAKER_00]: but he gets her to look again and she sees him, the gray face small being.
[SPEAKER_00]: She comes out of this regression series.
[SPEAKER_00]: Blood and Kathy meet again for another session to explore a different moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: She remembered a weird time when she was babysitting.
[SPEAKER_00]: She felt weird in the house like she was being watched.
[SPEAKER_00]: She goes into living room to watch TV and started to feel good and does off.
[SPEAKER_00]: She then felt something touching her face, like this real, this very tender caress on her face.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then she starts to feel something rubbing her lower back.
[SPEAKER_00]: At this point, she was laying on her side on the couch.
[SPEAKER_00]: She once again describes her legs feeling funny and being pulled apart.
[SPEAKER_00]: At this point, she can't move her legs, she's half numb.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing hurts, but she describes herself feeling like a flower opened up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then something large, she can feel her female parts wide open.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, as this is happening, she can tell a large object, it's completely inciter, and it's wide open.
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, she says it's strange because it doesn't hurt even though she knows deep down that it should.
[SPEAKER_00]: She says it almost feels pleasant.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so at this point,
[SPEAKER_00]: sexual manner asking if she's being touched in specific ways and she's like, no, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: a finally kind of starts to set in and she realizes something isn't right and her back begins to hurt so bad that in real time she starts to cry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy was, you know, reliving the pain in this moment and she's fucking losing her mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: But just trying to calmer down but she's losing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And after a while, she starts to calm down and explains how she felt like her stomach was being squashed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything is sore even at ribs.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, you know, I want to scream, but not from the pain.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is when she starts to like lose it.
[SPEAKER_00]: She starts screaming, no, it's not fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is when she knows she was pregnant, and that was the moment she lost her baby.
[SPEAKER_00]: The aliens had taken it from her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy even after being pulled from the trance, she was in, it just interiors and lost.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said that she screamed at them and she says she literally says I screamed at them and the fucker looks surprised like it couldn't understand why she was so upset by this turn of events.
[SPEAKER_00]: The scary part is that bud had other cases that matched this.
[SPEAKER_00]: A woman he interviewed was 13, got pregnant.
[SPEAKER_00]: She remembers having a dream, or a funny looking man with no hair.
[SPEAKER_00]: And funny eyes was in her room and she describes it as they were doing the deed only they weren't she said she's like we didn't we didn't touch each other but she felt something sharp inside her and then she felt like a fire sensation on her stomach and then it felt like her
[SPEAKER_00]: And in this particular case, this 13 year old, like her belly actually grew, like visibly pregnant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so the parents take her in and find out she's pregnant, so her body is registering that she's pregnant, they took her to the guino, the guino confirms, which I know doesn't
[SPEAKER_00]: apply, but the guy in the, the, the guy in the confirms, your hymn is still intact.
[SPEAKER_00]: You were still a virgin.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the dad's pissed.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dad's trying to figure out who did it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in this particular case, the 13 year old in question got,
[SPEAKER_00]: rid of it, I don't even know if you can technically say that word on shows any more.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know what I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: They got rid of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oops, mishmorsion.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I'm assuming because it was such like a, I'm gonna use the word sensitive situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was early.
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't bother to kind of investigate.
[SPEAKER_00]: what comes out.
[SPEAKER_00]: They kind of just for me to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, um, but back to Kathy, she ended up meeting up a bud again, bringing him, bringing back up how she told him about having a daughter.
[SPEAKER_00]: She now is telling bud that they, they showed her her daughter.
[SPEAKER_00]: so she began to explain to bud what happened and how they did it.
[SPEAKER_00]: She recalls some kind of test and someone talking to her.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was in a place that was all white and it was like they were finishing up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost like they were you know when she was in this room is like they were kind of this is the farewell.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like all right we're done with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna send you on your way now.
[SPEAKER_00]: and that was the feeling she was getting from all of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said a whole bunch of these these grays were in the room.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said she remembered one of them and she said it was like he had his arm around her waist in a very comforting manner.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of them touches her shoulder.
[SPEAKER_00]: and all of them were very pleased with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy wasn't afraid, but at the same time she's very confused.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just not.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, I just don't know what's going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then, all of a sudden, this little girl comes into the room, escorted by two beings.
[SPEAKER_00]: She appeared to be about four years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy said she didn't look at them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy said she didn't look like them, but she also didn't look like us.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like she was very pretty.
[SPEAKER_00]: Looking almost like an L for as she describes, which I find very unique as an angel.
[SPEAKER_00]: But she goes on to say,
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this with all the respect in the world, she's describing her child.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that we all kind of know we're a little biased when we talk about our children.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just and I mean that with the utmost respect.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember I love him to death.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember my son was a rather chunky kid and I was delusional and I was like No, he's not he's he's not at all And I can tell you the 100% certainty at the time I didn't think my son was that that chunky is a baby Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: We, we tend to see them in a different light when they're our own 100% that look back at pictures and I'm like the man you were a bumper So anyways, she goes on to describe her child
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, she had really big blue eyes and a little tiny nose.
[SPEAKER_00]: Her mouth was perfect and tiny.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was very pale, but her lips were a light shade of pink.
[SPEAKER_00]: Her hair was white and thin.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy said her head was a little larger than normal as well, especially in the forehead region.
[SPEAKER_00]: According to Kathy, she was just a doll, though.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Grey's brought her to Kathy, and as they did this, all of them kind of sat and watched.
[SPEAKER_00]: The two Grey's that were escorting the child were holding her by the hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy said, you know, this little girl seems very, very timid.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it seems that the little girl's interested in Kathy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the same time, she's kind of unsure because the little girl actually sees Kathy and they kind of are almost presenting the little girl to Kathy even though they're about five feet apart.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's almost like a scared kid in a parent because the child gets timid and then turns to one of the beings and like, you know how kids do they like hug you and like form to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly what this little kid did.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hide behind your hip.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, but the girl looked back at me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And had it was like a mixed thing like it was almost like the kid was smiling a little bit at the same time like oh, I'm not sure about you.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said that one of the grace spoke to her.
[SPEAKER_00]: But she can't remember what was said all she knows is she had this feeling that everyone was very happy with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: And very satisfied.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy was pretty sure that someone told her she should be proud.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was all before hypnosis.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy said she felt like they allowed her to remember her daughter on her own.
[SPEAKER_00]: Something for her to keep, but bud convinced her to regress the memory and see what happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there are a few gaps that get filled.
[SPEAKER_00]: At a certain point in the regression, the man, the man, quote, unquote, actually comes in and tells Kathy, you can't take the girl with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Saying you wouldn't be able to feed her.
[SPEAKER_00]: She asked us to stay with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: The being also says, a father has to take care of his children.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy goes back through what the kid looks like, but she includes her hair again saying that the hair on her head was very sparse and patchy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was long too.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was down to about her shoulders.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like she had even like sections of hair where the it was gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could see the scalp.
[SPEAKER_00]: also her tiny ears were lower on her head than ours.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a little girl was essentially wearing like a silk night gown.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably the best way to describe it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting here too because she says the women have her daughter, but it's like, well, how do you know that those ones are women?
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, physically, you can't tell the difference, but they think differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, there's just something she says there's something different about their eyes, which they do not elaborate on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hidden features, but as keeping in his back pocket.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, could be, could be.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they don't elaborate on what's in the eyes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I've ever heard that in another case.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have not either.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: At this point, everyone leaves the room.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone except the guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's explaining that her daughter will be, you know, your daughter's going to be safe.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll get to see her again, but for now she has to leave and another note here that I find interesting is the guy, the way he tells her, he says, you know, from now, you have to leave.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't leave here very quickly, you will become very sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a kind of a looting to, we as humans only have a significant amount of time, be it in their presence on the UFO, where it, whatever place it is,
[SPEAKER_00]: we only have a significant amount of time before we start to get sick of what what does that mean by get sick doesn't mean you're nauseous and throw up or does that mean you have fucking radiation poisoning.
[SPEAKER_01]: which kind of throws back to where last episode where we were talking about how in the one encounter she smelled the burning matches, which we said is a commonality not only in alien abduction but in other aspects of the phenomena, poltergeist activity, and some
[SPEAKER_01]: whatever realm these beings are coming from being a different part of about or space or whatever that may be their atmosphere is sulfur based or ammonia based and when they're coming over across and through the veil however they get here maybe it's just residual to a certain extent that that's why we're smelling these different
[SPEAKER_01]: smells because it's common as to where they're from, not necessarily some sort of demonic entity, but they're from a planet that is that has a sulfur atmosphere, obviously they're going to smell like sulfur, which kind of leads into this.
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe they only have so much oxygen maybe on the ship or wherever the wherever they're at where like hey you only have so much time here before we run out and then you're not going to have a good time when you're yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because you would think that by him saying you're going to get sick, it's like a life or death thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I don't think they would give a shit about nausea or motion sickness.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I think about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, like you, you're going to want to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as the guy is, you know, he explains that it's time to go and he grabs, he takes her by the hand and he walks over to this like little platform.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy because like in my mind it's almost like the be me up Scotty situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: He walks over to this little platform and she's like, it was about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: The platform itself was about an inch tall.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there wasn't a huge
[SPEAKER_00]: difference between the the floor of wherever in this platform.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very subtle difference.
[SPEAKER_00]: While you do the platform.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as he is holding your hand, Kathy gets flooded with emotions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sadness, warmth, caring, distance,
[SPEAKER_00]: guilt, like she just gets hammered with emotion.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as she's on this platform, he lets, he lets go over hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she says the entire, which is fucking crazy when you compare this to the phenomena, the entire room starts the shimmer, like you would see in a mirage, or the shimmer
[SPEAKER_00]: At this point, she fills an extreme pressure on her chest, and then all of a sudden, she's lying on the grass, so she's back where they return her boom.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy tries to go back inside her house, but the door's locked, so she calls for her mother, and does not respond.
[SPEAKER_00]: or who does respond, but it's like they're both being in trouble at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Neither of them says a word, they just go up to stairs together and use and go to their bedrooms and go to sleep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once blood brings her out of the trance, she's convinced that the man isn't the father.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, she comes out of this and like a combative mode.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, there's no fucking way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just, it's ironic because she's like, there's no fucking way, he's the father.
[SPEAKER_00]: He might have given some cells, but no fucking way that I do anything with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just thinking about this, makes me fucking nauseous.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is not that guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: She also said that she got the feeling when he said he was the volunteer donor.
[SPEAKER_00]: that that was the only way that her brain can comprehend what happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I actually took place.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said nine times out of ten, they talked to her and treated her as if she was a child.
[SPEAKER_00]: So even though, you know, he said, I, I'm the volunteer donor.
[SPEAKER_00]: She, she's alluding that they're may have been a far more elaborate process.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this was the only way, like they knew this is the best way for her to halfway understand what the fuck happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy said that when he held her hands, she got that rush of emotion, and she's like, I didn't know where it came from, there was so much, you know, all the love, caring, loneliness, sadness, sorrow, guilt, all of it, she's like, he felt guilty for what he had done.
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't want to leave Kathy, and he also wanted Kathy to be happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: at the success they had with creating the child.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said it felt like they weren't used to these types of feelings like we do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kathy said that aliens have emotions, but they don't use them very much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Emotions cloud scientific thought.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said the little girl knew Kathy was, but at the same time, it was like she shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was shocked.
[SPEAKER_00]: She had come from that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost looking at Kathy like she's daily in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, kind of almost the roles reversed the way that Kathy was looking at her granted it was her child and she thought like in jail like a beautiful, but she also the way she describes it is not so much, you know, so probably something very similar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oddly enough, which I don't, I'm not going to go into, but, but has at least three other accounts in the book that have very similar styles to this.
[SPEAKER_01]: terrifying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's three other, there's other accounts in the book of men being sampled for their genetics.
[SPEAKER_00]: Other accounts of women encountering this type of situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the strength to me, the strange thing about this at the very end with the daughter and all that
[SPEAKER_00]: hyper-focused on the daughter and I get it because it's your kid but like there's a section like I kind of said in the last episode where Buds asked in her question and you know like well this that and she doesn't care she's solely focused on the child that's all that matters now at this point nothing else matters.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like it was done by design.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I kind of feel like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: almost almost like they knew someone was trying to get to the bottom of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like what better distraction and they promised her they literally promised her you will see her again and it's almost like it's it's almost like in a weird
[SPEAKER_00]: disgusting way, I almost feel like it's dangling the bag of drugs in front of an addict.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's, it's hope.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, is what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, because she's obviously got an emotional attachment to this child.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for them to just be like, yeah, you'll see her again.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just plants that seed, plants that seed of hope.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which leads to the promise of further abductions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which up up to the point that the child was shown to her was a wretched experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: A point of fear.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now they've got her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now she's welcome in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Kathy was convinced that they were using this type of hybrid program to further
[SPEAKER_00]: themselves on their planet because they I guess whatever happened something happened throughout this and this was never explained to Kathy this is kind of like one of them I don't know what you would call like a feeling download something to that degree
[SPEAKER_00]: But she's convinced that because she saw images, I guess, of these beings having children, but the children dying very young, and they couldn't keep new generations alive.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they resorted to almost like, joining us out to further their race, which on one hand I understand,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's exactly the same concept as if we were doing this, the exact same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Humans were doing this to a mother lion.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like a scientific, like we would view it the same way that they view what they're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it has blind signs, signs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it doesn't, like it doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Separate all emotional, every, every emotional connection goes out the window in the name of science.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I mean, I know humans and even if the, because in a way, I'm sure the lion is being like, why are you doing this?
[SPEAKER_00]: What is happening?
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have, of course, don't understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: But even if we could, humans would be like, I think, said science.
[SPEAKER_01]: It even makes you wonder if if those things that they showed her about like the baby's dying and all this shit, if that was even true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it doesn't mean that it's real.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or if they were just manipulating her empathy.
[SPEAKER_01]: 100% could be, you know, because they've been shown to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: already up to this point out and you can tell by some of these regressions that they didn't crack all the way through all of the regressions like to the boys in the cabin they didn't break all that up yeah which is that that encounter strange it's weird
[SPEAKER_01]: the fact that they were there for hours and nobody can remember what the other two look like.
[SPEAKER_01]: It made me also think of like the the mirrored men phenomena, where there's always three of them, and there are people can only like people remember them all looking with saying, which is kind of in the same vein as not remembering what two of them look like.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is also funny that you say that because that sparks a memory from the book.
[SPEAKER_00]: She says there's four of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they only visibly see three because they, uh, the blonde boy made the comment how the fourth didn't want to come.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't happy with coming.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he stayed in the, in the car, I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I thought you said four.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you only referred to three.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that makes sense now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously the blonde boy is a bit of a liar.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's kind of fabricating a lot of that fucking Yeah, just ad livin' as they go It's a very strange case though very strange case.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you it really it really honestly makes me want to dive back into Carla Terners Investigators.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you should I think it would be
[SPEAKER_01]: because I did want I need to go back and listen to it and see what I don't think I covered any of the cases in particular, especially from her later book, which I've started writing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got quite a bit written.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just need to go back and finish it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which book is it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Her second one is called Take In.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have that on audiobook.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, do you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's it's hard to listen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they use straight AI.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like not good AI.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: taking inside the alien human abduction agenda.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, I've already started writing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got about I've almost got an episode written, but I kind of, you know, how my brain does.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, because I think that's why I got it because you said, you know, I've heard you say, Carla Turner so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know she has some fucked up cases that she's covered.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, but has, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It falls in line with Bud Hopkins' work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would almost bet, you can listen to some of Carlos' presentations online, and I bet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Buds were kind of led into her work after she realized that she was an experienceer, but taking revolves around eight women across the country who were abductees that she interviewed, and they are some,
[SPEAKER_00]: fucking well, it's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm decent because I like I said I have it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got the audio book I think it's just a hard lesson because it's like fucking old school AI that's not good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to, I don't think I have the actual physical book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I might buy it and because I found, I was using PDF to start writing this and I need to go back and just finish it because the way it ties into the manipulation of them using children, hybrid children, to manipulate these women, it gets gross.
[SPEAKER_00]: seeing that that would be relevant for Kathy's case here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because it makes me wonder if this would have been years ago if Kathy ever was reintroduced her child or after that I was thinking the same thing like did she ever meet it again?
[SPEAKER_00]: Not as far as I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because in in the
[SPEAKER_01]: interviews.
[SPEAKER_01]: She would she would have fit right in because these these women that Carla interview have layers and layers and layers of mental blocking false memories.
[SPEAKER_01]: The the whole nine to try to keep them from remembering what happens.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when they finally do break through some of the stuff that these things do to these women.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there was one if I remember correctly.
[SPEAKER_01]: They flat out told her that if she
[SPEAKER_01]: they would murder her.
[SPEAKER_01]: They said, you will disappear and we will replace you with something that looks exactly like you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's fucked.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Could you imagine?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you fucking imagine interviewing somebody and like, they told they laid that shit on you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah,
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't, you don't, you don't, you don't really have a choice.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's, yeah, I need to go back in and do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I was, I was looking at it making the comparisons while you were doing your episode, it says memory block, memory blocks, screen illusions, create false narrative of what's actually happening to the victims.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is terrifying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm kind of exactly what they did to Kathy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, they led a number on, they did a number to Kathy and her family man because there's there's even a story in there where I think Kathy's sister's husband has like everybody affiliated with Kathy has E to experiences Just just the whole family of experiences
[SPEAKER_00]: And like I said, I would highly recommend the book because there's there's a lot that left out.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of second like accounts that he uses to reference what Kathy's saying, you know, the further justify what she's saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good and there are the boy, oh boy, are there some dandies in that thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it just reminded me so much of some of the shit that I read from Carla Turner, especially like it threatening her to forget.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, because that first that first and my attempted breakthrough they were, it was not happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was not a positive.
[SPEAKER_00]: And think about that too, the progression where in the beginning, there's not one part of it that wants her to remember any of it, but then all of a sudden near the end of this, she's like, yeah, they want to me to have a memory of my daughter and to keep to almost distract her from everything else because she's hyper focused on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she's laser focused.
[SPEAKER_00]: She didn't care.
[SPEAKER_00]: She didn't care about nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: She just wanted her daughter, which is also bizarre too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I get it, and I say this is a respect for you as I possibly can.
[SPEAKER_01]: She also has two fucking sons at home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're experiencing...
[SPEAKER_01]: The same thing that she's going through, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, and she, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just get that sense that I know it's probably not the case.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know, I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you get the sense that once she kind of has this confirmation of her daughter, she completely abandoned site and hope or a site of her two sons.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: which is also was like the focus of the beginning encounters when she was pregnant with Tom, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, because that's what they were focused on to begin with.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so weird, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Trying to get to the bottom of it, so bizarre.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just the spiral just keeps getting weird or a weirder.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like I said, if you look into Buds' work, he's got, again, by the book, Intruder's got another book missing time, pretty sure he was the first UFO Investigative Journalists who coined the term missing time, where he put the pieces together that this was a commonality in a production case is, Check it out, and
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Be mentally prepared.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it makes me want to check out more of Bud's work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was, that was a ripper series.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was very well done.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was very pleased with, because I just got the book on a win.
[SPEAKER_00]: The cover spoke to me and I'm like, I'll try it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I got into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, holy shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: old school paranormal journalism where people boots on the ground go interview people which I know that still happens today everybody chill out but it's a lot different today you can just zoom somebody you know you can hop on FaceTime and interview somebody that you're never going to meet and there's there is a human element about talking to someone face
[SPEAKER_01]: You get their emotions, you get their feelings, you get things you can't pick up digitally.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like a lot of that's lost in the community and in journalism today is a whole.
[SPEAKER_00]: 100% agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you appreciate things like...
[SPEAKER_01]: these old heads, put in the work, boots on the ground and taking the time to record all this information for us, the next generation to go through and put our own puzzle pieces together, try to figure out what the phenomenon is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, hopefully he'll like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully it was a worthy series.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, it's got my mind turning out, a dive back in and finish up.
[SPEAKER_01]: That Carla Turner that I've got started, and you go back and listen to one I release, make sure I don't cross contending.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause I know it's a long time ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was sick.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thanks everybody for hanging out with us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, tune in next week.
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to start doing this to get you guys hyped.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, we're gonna have a cryptid case that I've been working on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dang, the old, uh, like worth monster.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I haven't even I know if I ever heard about that getting this North American goat man here So get stoked on that but until we get there I need you all to stay safe stay weird and
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't trust the alien abduction agenda.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're manipulative.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're weirdos.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't support them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm speaking for myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: So don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't quote Kyle on what I say.