[SPEAKER_00]: Some of these people on TikTok, the way they were defending this man, they made it seem like they also would have defended a few scent of voice memo being like, let's say she did agree to have sex and then he sent in another voice memo being like, oh, and by the way, I like when women are completely bare down there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you had a wax and shave beforehand, that would be really nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a boundary of mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'd be like, he communicated.
[SPEAKER_00]: He communicated, he doesn't like, heard on there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Guys, guys, guys, when does it end?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, when does the nightmare end?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I hate to tell you.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you, if you fell bad for the man, the literacy crisis is beating your eyes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Has gotten you.
[SPEAKER_01]: You, me's a log back in, brother.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's up you guys and welcome back to emotionally online, the weekly song party for heart to heart and hot gossip posted by yours truly.
[SPEAKER_00]: The one and only Maddie Drawspeck co-hosted again back in the newly renovated co-host corner.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got Magruo coo.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you're obsessed with this co-host.
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to say out loud now that we did just record this entire intro.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would you blow up my spot like that?
[SPEAKER_00]: But make me just kidding, I wasn't recording.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the first time she gave us the obsessed in my head, it started with an A, and I thought I was a brand new word I'd never heard of.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that you think so highly of me that I just know a word you've done.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're imparting knowledge on me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ah, that's so nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we dreamt of going on family feud.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was something I guess that was just something a little bit just for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just for us, never for you until we go on family feud and you'll see the dream that we jumped up together in in the the clips left on the cutting room floor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think one thing that I can take away from this summer so far is that everything that we manifest comes to fruition.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're very powerful manifestors as I was told by a psychic once.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or just you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, just me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know?
[SPEAKER_01]: She like, feel like you kind of included me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know what?
[SPEAKER_01]: I got really excited.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I did tell me something about you though.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I actually never told you this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, are you revealing it now?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll tell you now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was, I talked to her last July and one of the things she said to me last July.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was like, are you talking with someone about going into like a creative partnership with someone?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, yes, I am.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she was like, I just need you to know that it's a great idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, she said to me that she actually says, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't add to God hand to God.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said that if I went back in my notes I would see exactly what she said because I barf and I recorded the whole thing I could really go find the video of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm gonna need to talk to her as well I swear to God.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's a genius.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, she is a genius and at that point we hadn't even come up with pump cast yet No, I mean we're just talking about you doing emotionally online more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it was just kind of like in the ether We had been like lightly chatting about it, but no I because I think when we
[SPEAKER_01]: First talked about pump cast that was later in the summer.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like I think you was even fall at that point Well, the first because we talked about pump cast when we went to the bunch of that rooftop pool did we?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, wow we talked about or while we talked about doing a podcast together.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes for the first time at at the rooftop pool at the rooftop pool And so I know that that was in the summer time, but I do not remember when
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I used to say that one day will be on family feud, one day will be on family feud, and all our dreams will come true.
[SPEAKER_00]: All our dreams will come true, added to the dreamless.
[SPEAKER_00]: Add it to the dreamless.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've added many things for our dreamless today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Number one, we want a studio.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Number two, we want to hire Tom Schwartz as a production assistant for one day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he needs a job.
[SPEAKER_00]: He does.
[SPEAKER_00]: Macding only gets too so far.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's unemployed, and we need him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Number three is of course doing a table read of a Vanderpuff rules episode with Seth Rogan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because that would be fucking awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be so soon.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we should be high while we do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can be a big house plan ad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it can be free marketing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Seth, listen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on, you would have fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: And...
[SPEAKER_00]: we'd get awesome stuff yeah and your brand look at that promo come on to hot girls smoking weed and and re-enacting a scene from their role in Seth Rogan like this is all high this is actually art we're actually cooking we're fucking cooking this is what happens when you put two brilliant sexy fat women in a room together we cook people don't think about that but we're cooking they're making fun of us for eating little do they know we're cooking
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell them I get it!
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've been really online this week, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not that it's any different from other weeks.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm usually pretty online, groundbreaking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Host of emotionally online is online.
[SPEAKER_01]: Social media influencer online has access to internet in abundant freaking.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I've been very online this week because I've been absolutely captured by this TikTok discourse about the second date voice memo that some guy sent and how absolutely fucking brain dead half of these people's analysis analysis of the incident are yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one thing for teens and like young adults to be talking about this and like having discourse about it, that I understand totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I've seen like grow adults, grown people that I thought were smart having bad takes about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I was like, what, what are we talking about?
[SPEAKER_00]: The misogyny's were out in your brain, girl.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, having a country led by a rapist is
[SPEAKER_00]: really doing damage on your psyche.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we can tell now it is hurting us mama.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for those of you that haven't seen this, let me tell you the gossip.
[SPEAKER_00]: So basically, there was a man and a woman who went out on a first date together.
[SPEAKER_00]: First date.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seemed like the date went pretty well.
[SPEAKER_00]: It also seemed like the man may have propositioned her first sex after date one.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she said, no, I want to wait a little longer before exploring sex with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: They then parted ways after their first date.
[SPEAKER_00]: absolutely tearing up my bed right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shout out to Ted.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shout out to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, they part after the first date and they make loose plans to go on a second date together the following week.
[SPEAKER_00]: He then, after parting ways, later that night, sends her a voice memo in which he basically is like, yeah, so if we're gonna hang out on Thursday, just a heads up that like, I do expect us to explore sexually because that's what I want to do and if you don't want to fuck on Thursday, then like we should just call it here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And people online were saying that this was a great example of consent, seeking consent, and clear communication, of which it's actually neither.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, when I heard the voice memo go ahead and look up the voice memo so you can just be in the loop on that front you can actually hear the tone of his voice and how he says it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really like the doucheous way possible he could have delivered this message.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's like he's talking about going over reports.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's very business like it's very removed kind of emotionally.
[SPEAKER_01]: which makes it all the freakier, in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's like you can't use therapy speak to coerce someone into having sex with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's basically what he does.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, my boundary is that I need to have sex.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, if you don't want that, you can fuck all the way all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, people like while he was so honest guys, he communicated his needs and his wants and we should be, you know, congratulating him for saying it all out loud and it's like, okay, just because there are a lot of people who move like this and don't say anything at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't make him saying it out loud any better.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a weird way to move.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's soup.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really,
[SPEAKER_01]: Like fundamentally it's just a weird way to move and also as I was listening to this and people were like Oh, it's just like a such a good way to like get consent and blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like okay Did we all have different conversations about what consent was younger because I remember like a specific conversation in sex ad class that we had Which is that you cannot like except pre
[SPEAKER_01]: No, what is the word that I'm looking for?
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't give consent in advance.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't thank you, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: You cannot give consent in advance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's the same thing as just because you had sex with someone in the past, doesn't mean that you can have sex with them again in the future.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, this is the same exact thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You cannot be like, so in the future, I'm gonna want to fuck you, say yes now, let's get that out of the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was crazy me to see people online being like, no, this is normal and it's like, okay, let's let's follow this through.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's follow what you guys think is cool and kosher.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see what would happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's say she responds to that and she's like, okay, cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I give you consent.
[SPEAKER_00]: to fuck me on Thursday.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thursday comes around in the moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, actually, you know, I'm not feeling it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that give him the right to then rage out because he said that he didn't want to go on the date of less they fucked or assault her anyway because she already said that she would have sex with him a few days ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, guys, we can't be stupid now.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can't pretend like we don't know that that's exactly how it would fucking go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Particularly when someone is approaching you after one singular date, acting like they are a prerequisite to continuing to date them, is that you have to fuck them.
[SPEAKER_01]: It also puts like a so much pressure on the situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, even if I was interested in like having sex with this person or being physically intimate with them or whatever, the minute someone is like, so by the way, I'm going to need to figure out what this is pretty soon.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, then immediately, not that's really weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's super weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you just want to hook up with someone, you should put that on your dating profile.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Say it though.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no reason for you to be getting to the end of the first date to even be going on the first date Yeah, if you know that this is a woman looking to go on dates and you just want to like Fuck and then leave immediately.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's really weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would you?
[SPEAKER_01]: bury the lead there and then rip out this weird ass voice note under the guys of being communicative and it is just so interesting to me that like the the woman who posted this I think is like a younger woman I think she's in like her early 20s or maybe she's like 19 or something like I think she's a little bit younger and she posted it basically saying like here's why I'm not going on another date with this guy yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: and then you had again like older people coming back at her and being like actually this is a great way to speak to one another and it's like no no it's not
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, the amount of videos I started being pushed of people defending the man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this is, again, I'm just like, sorry, did we all, did we all like have like we collectively choose to forget what we all talked about when we first learned about consent, which is just that you cannot give consent in advance, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It is in the moment you either are a willing, excited participant or you are not.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not this like, yeah, on Friday, I'm going to want to have sex because also, yeah, you don't know how you're going to feel on Friday.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you will, maybe you won't, but you can't make that decision ahead of time completely, particularly not when it's being demanded of you.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing is that it is something that is presented as a boundary when really it is a demand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is not what consent is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is I'm like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you mentioned off camera beforehand that like, you fear what, you know, teen people who see this will think I'm also like, wow, it seems like some adults need some apparently some reeducation, oh my god.
[SPEAKER_00]: Holy shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the first time that I saw this I was like
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes me nervous because I remember what it was like to date as a 19-year-old for the first time, and how easily duped I was by men who pretended they wanted romantic connections in order to gain sexual access to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was everyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: All of my college dating experiences, I would pretty much put in that category, men that I was going out with,
[SPEAKER_00]: I was so naive at the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that if I was going on dates with someone and we were getting to know each other and spending quality time together, that we were pursuing a romantic connection and trying to get to know each other earnestly in a similar way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And every single time I was shocked to learn that
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of these men really were just playing up the romance so that I would have sex with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And how quickly the whole thing fell apart after the fact, they took me a while to notice the pattern and to be like, oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is...
[SPEAKER_00]: This is common, unfortunately, it is common.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I see people normalize this kind of speak in someone looking at what this guy says to her and being like, oh, good on him for communicating, 19-year-old me would have bought that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 19 year old me would have fallen for that 19 year old me would have received this voice memo and thought to myself like oh I guess this is just like what I'm supposed to do I'm dating and hooking up with people for the first time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess that like I guess it's normal that he wants to assess our sexual connection Yeah, and he needs to do it sooner or rather than later like I guess if I want to keep getting to know him because I had such a good time on our first date that I have to do this right
[SPEAKER_00]: That is genuinely a thought that I would have had as a 19-year-old.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it scares me to see adults on the internet be like, actually this is a normal way to speak to someone because it's not.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just because, again,
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of men do this and never say it out loud the same way when I was in college going through these men who pretended they wanted a romantic connection in order to gain sexual access to me none of them would ever say that out loud no to put those words to it they'd be like whoa whoa whoa it's not like that but that's what you're doing yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: This man is saying that part out loud in a way that caters to therapy speak, and it is really making a parent how little critical thought some of you have when it comes to decoding what's actually being said.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just because he's saying the quiet part out loud,
[SPEAKER_00]: doesn't make it good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I almost felt like, obviously, we've been talking so much about Vanderpump, and in the season of Vanderpump, we just watched.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jacks is like, you know, there's lying cheating menace, who's just like destroying his entire friend group.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's under the impression that since he decides to tell the truth,
[SPEAKER_00]: that it means he gets away with it all scoff reads like well what I told the truth I told you what it was right how can you blame me for anything and it's like that's not how it worked no it's just not it's just blatantly hot and again I I'm just like so
[SPEAKER_01]: genuinely dumbfounded and it makes me like more concerned about kind of the broader sexual education of young people in America and the world that people can view something a message like that and consider it to be anything other than blatant coercion, which it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is coercion, which is not consent.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is, again, in my mind, I'm like, hey, didn't we all take that little quiz where it's like, if you could, if you could, if you could, coerc someone and having sex with you, that is, uh, answer A, okay, B, totally fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: See, not okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's sexual assault.
[SPEAKER_01]: The answer is C, because if you coerce someone into having sex with you, they do not consent to having sex with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And someone saying, I need to have sex with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a demand that I have sex with you the next time that I see you.
[SPEAKER_01]: is as because of my quote unquote boundaries is complete and utter coercion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is not that is not someone communicating something that is someone weaponizing therapy speak in order to be a sexual predator.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: completely blatantly.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, like you said, just because he said it, doesn't mean it's like cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sounds good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where he's like, I will have sex with you Thursday.
[SPEAKER_01]: know you want straight up know you're not going to because that's a crazy thing to say right also to me is just a it is such a like holding a lens up to how toxic
[SPEAKER_01]: People can be when it comes to their own therapeutic journeys, because this is clearly a man who, whether he's been to therapy or not, has been exposed to the language surrounding therapy, and has decided to co-opt it for his own game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Rather than having any sort of critical understanding or like knowledge of what those words actually mean.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: People say shit like this all the time, where it's like, well, it's just my boundary.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just my boundary that I actually can't I can't help my roommate move their couch into the into the living room because like it's just it's a boundary of mine and it's like it that's not what that means.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just saying words.
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, to me is like so much worse than people just like coming forward and being like like that That text or that voice memo is already so bad to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost worse than him saying I really want to have sex with you on Thursday and if we aren't going to have sex then I don't want to see you again
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost worse than right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he, because he babbles on for like two minutes trying to make it sound like it's It has to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and here's why here's why because of all of these like again, these like emotionally I'm just a guy that really likes to get to the bottom of our sexual connection early on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to waste my time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to waste your time It's just a balance sheet mine.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also so it like cuts off the human experience that it's knees
[SPEAKER_01]: also it's not sexy it's this is what I'm saying it's not sexy you are you are completely sucking out any sort of sexual energy or tension which is what makes sex fun like you're cutting out any of the flirtation you're just looking for a whole you're you're looking for a whole
[SPEAKER_00]: you're looking to like jerk off into something right so go do that yeah go go buy a fucking what's it called pocket pussy exactly jerk off into that that's crazy also after the first date this is what's so nothing he's sending this after the first day two hours with someone two hours total you go back to your house and you're like wow i think that was a pretty good date and you're going to get this
[SPEAKER_01]: A voice memo that is like time-wise like 10% of the 100% of time that you've spent with this person and all of a sudden you get a voice memo from them That's like, you know, 10 minutes of him just fucking rambling about how he needs to fuck you because of his emotional needs Like actually I think that's really weird that because if you're sending me that voice memo at the end of our first aid I'm also going to assume that that was what was in your head during a lot of our first aid Yeah, and I'm like, oh, so you don't
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so we just you're a weirdo.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a fucking weirdo.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you are a real fucking weirdo Who is our my god?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's wrong with you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the thing anybody that I go on one day with who After immediately after the date that night is sending me a multi minute voice memo We just we had we talked a lot today.
[SPEAKER_00]: We need to talk more.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't need to do that
[SPEAKER_01]: It could, oh, by the way, it could have been the best date in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're sending me a multi-minute voice memo the first day.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, some of these people on TikTok, the way they were defending this man, they made it seem like they also would have defended a few sense of voice memo being like, let's say she did agree to have sex and then he sent in another voice memo being like, oh, and by the way, I like when women are completely bare down there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you had a wax and shave beforehand, that would be really nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a boundary of mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'd be like, he communicated.
[SPEAKER_00]: He communicated, he doesn't like, heard on there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Guys, guys, guys, when does it end?
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, when does the nightmare end?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I hate to tell you, if you, if you fell bad for the man,
[SPEAKER_00]: The literacy crisis is beating your eyes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It has gotten you.
[SPEAKER_01]: You!
[SPEAKER_01]: Meets a log back in, brother.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna send you the little booklet that I read in seventh grade about consent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and we'll all go through it together.
[SPEAKER_01]: Certainly, because you're using words you don't know the definition of.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, so let's kind of lock in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get back to that seventh grade reading level shall we?
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus Christ.
[SPEAKER_01]: Holy shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: people who are, people who are, you know, even in their early 20s or in their late teens, who are falling for this shit, I get that, I have a lot more empathy for that, a lot more grace and compassion.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're over the age of 25 and you're agreeing with this bullshit, get your head checked.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have worms in there, like RFK, like a lot of them too.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have worms in there and they're all sexual predators.
[SPEAKER_00]: They might have overtaken most of your brain at this point and might only be worms.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just worms, your head is full of worms.
[SPEAKER_00]: And not the fun gummy kind.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if your head feels like rigoli and weird and strangely, it's because it's full of worms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, well, what are we going to do about that, America?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how every section is on that, and did that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, well, I am, so bottom line for anyone still might be confused, consent is given willingly and freely in the present moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it cannot be given ahead of time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it can be revoked at any time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, do we all have it?
[SPEAKER_01]: We all understand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen, this isn't an educational podcast, but fuck it.
[SPEAKER_01]: If we need it to become that, it is, it is fucking today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, the other part of this for me, and this is where it goes into personal territory for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I...
[SPEAKER_00]: It bothers me when people treat sex, like, it is this non-emotional thing that someone is just, like, to request this of someone after a first day.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think is so wildly inappropriate and, like, not a human way to interact with the conversation, with the topic of sex with another human person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, if I went on a first day with someone and they sent me this message after the back, I honestly think I would cry, like I think that it would deeply upset me so much to be like, I just went on a date with someone that's like emotionally vulnerable for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all you can think about is sex, which is something that's hard for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would just want to like throw my phone out and be like, God.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it always going to go back to this, this thing that is like deeply, uh, you know, complicated for me as someone with sexual trauma and it's just like I can't even go on a regular emotionally vulnerable date without someone being like, Oh, my boundary at this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's so bleak exactly what you're saying that this person is taking something that is supposed to be
[SPEAKER_01]: utterly emotional, utterly human, mm-hmm, met with like grace and compassion.
[SPEAKER_01]: And is stripping all of that away, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And treating it purely as a transactional deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is so bleak.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is so informative of how that person views sex.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And sexual experiences.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also like barely anyone's relationship with sex is that
[SPEAKER_00]: non-emotional.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most people have, you know, whether you're someone with sexual trauma, or just like a normal human person who sees intimacy as being intimate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that I'm like, oh my god.
[SPEAKER_01]: And not for nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know this isn't the main point.
[SPEAKER_01]: That voice memo immediately tells me that that guy doesn't fuck good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Completely not for nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like to get in and out like it's a fucking clinic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: That dude tells me that that voice
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not interested because that's how we speak it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: According to my charts, I'm looking at what medically needs to be done today and a few and a couple of days you'll need to take one a me pill.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, actually, I was just prescribed a big fat poontang.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to make your way over here on Thursday, it's medically necessary for me to fuck and for you to deny me if that is actually discrimination.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it'll last two minutes and I'm going to make sure that I come and I don't give a fuck about if you do or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Girl are we living in where there's like people want to be like, yeah, and that's my communicative king And that guy has a right to say that Speak up, okay, you guys date those guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, holy shit You guys go have sex with them
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you want to fuck him, go for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: The rest of us normal people are gonna...
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna be over here having good sex.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna be like, hey, that's weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: We actually don't want to hang out with that guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I got winded at a friend of mine with sending messages like this, I'd literally be like, we need to send him away.
[SPEAKER_01]: The idea of learning that like one of my guy friends sent this message.
[SPEAKER_01]: I straight up would be like, are you the dumbest boy a lot?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it was only like, that's someone's experience out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, like this man has a woman friend, presumably.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's actually scarier to me being like realizing your friend is doing that to other women being like oh my god I have to be the one to kill him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes What are we gonna do?
[SPEAKER_00]: what are we going to do about that America.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're just going to have to keep talking about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, forever and ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's hammered.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what I'm freaking school is in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our job is to sit here and yep, yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what we're going to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if that involves bullying loser men who behave insane on the internet, guess what?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we're here for, baby.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so funny because I saw a comment on one of our recent episodes where someone was like, this is my favorite feminist podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had a moment where I was like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I never necessarily like, went and came into this podcast being like, we're the feminist podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then I was like, one of us has purple hairs.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, yeah, if you take a step back, like that's definitely That is definitely our zone.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have purple hair in my uncle hates me for being a lip-tard Mrs. Affeminist podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, my aunt wants bully beyond online for being gay So this is definitely a feminist podcast Your number one feminist podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where ever you get pugs
[SPEAKER_00]: last week we said that we were going to do an audience submission exclusive episode an audience mission extravaganza yeah so with a pollusa absolutely love adding the word pollusa to everything audience submission pollusa like trolley there's a snap
[SPEAKER_01]: odd.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, ID.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now that one starts with an A.
[SPEAKER_00]: That one does start with a. I'm going O. D. D. I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so
[SPEAKER_01]: the people's polusa, the people's polusa, the people's ponderings, people's ponderings polusa, the pannians polusa, the pannians polusa, I like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's go into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's see what the people are saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Maddie and Meg, love the pod so much, lately I've been struggling with one of my friends who has lost my trust.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've noticed a consistent slash bizarre pattern where she will go after people I'm interested in shortly after I tell her, and even makes subtle comments bragging about their attraction to her.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt that she could just be attracted to these people too, but her behavior towards them flips when she knows I'm interested in them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once she knows about my interest, she will pursue and flirt with them heavily in front of me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even when I'm seeing someone, she's weirdly competitive about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never had a friend act like this before and I feel uncomfortable around her now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't called her out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I should, but I feel like she would gaslight me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel intuitively that something is off and I don't feel safe anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Would love to hear your take on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's not your friend.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's your enemy, actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's your op.
[SPEAKER_01]: That has Tom Sandival says.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, she's your friend, but also she's your enemy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'll go so far as to say that I actually would push back against the idea that like if you're friend developed natural feelings.
[SPEAKER_00]: and when after your guy that she knows you're interested in, that would also be weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what Amanda Batoola just did to Sierra Miller and the world is an uproar about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I fear your friends with Amanda Batoola.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here Amanda Batoola's in your orbit.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's in your wings.
[SPEAKER_01]: I-
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually like so easy to shut a crush down and I can't deal with these people that are like Oh, I have a crush.
[SPEAKER_00]: What can I do is if it's like something they absolutely cannot control in any way shape or form yeah like when I was in college
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a guy friend who I started to be like, oh, do I like him?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, who knows?
[SPEAKER_00]: And in the midst of me pondering it, one of my friends came to me and was like, so I think I like our friend.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in my head, I want, oh,
[SPEAKER_00]: Shut it down instantly.
[SPEAKER_00]: She, I never even told her, because in my head, I was like, she set it out loud.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: She, she is clearly in a different place than I am.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, hmm, my wonder.
[SPEAKER_00]: She tells me that she has feelings for this person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I instantly, I'm like, okay, we're good.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're shutting it down and moving on elsewhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't even debate it for a second.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is no world where I would ever go after the same person that a friend is or was.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't go after a friend's ex either.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I just think that those are weird ways to move as a friend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the closest I've ever come to like having crossover in that way with my friends is years after my friend went on one date with a guy, I, like they went on a date, then they, like never spoke, never interacted again, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Met him years later, developed feelings for him, like how to crush on him.
[SPEAKER_01]: First thing I did when I was like, I might have a crush on this guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is go to my friend and be like, hey, I'm checking in with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this something that like is this something I could theoretically like pursue if not that's totally fine for sure I will not do anything about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like will nip that in the butt and she was like you're totally fine to worry about it That is like the closest I've ever come to something like that and
[SPEAKER_01]: I completely agree that I just think that this person for whatever reason feels that she is in competition with you will clearly she's insecure as hell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's ultimately coming from like a place of insecurity of like this person likes my friend.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to convince them that they should like me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I'm the hotter one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm hot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, that's not your friend with your enemy that is your enemy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate to that's just like bad news not how friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's just not how friends operate at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just not how friends operate at all and this whole idea of like
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if she did have a crush on someone and was like I have a crush on them, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what to tell you like you get crushes on people and then you're just like, oh, okay And then that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't mean that you have ownership over them Yeah, it doesn't mean that you've like called dibs.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't mean that you do anything about it By the way, I was like for it to be every single her No shot like you're just no shot You guys there's no shot that you guys have the same taste like that no
[SPEAKER_00]: Every single person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every single one.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: No shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: No chance.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have so many questions actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish that you were here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I could just get my answers immediately.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in my head, I have to be like, what if any conversation has their been like in acknowledging this overlap and how strange it is?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because it's like where?
[SPEAKER_00]: How does she share that information with you that she's into these people because they said that I haven't called her out But it's like okay, but how when you learn that there is an overlap in crush like what does that conversation look like right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it just her sharing weird little like passive aggressive comments of like oh this pretty well this you like this person?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they looked at me like this the other day
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what probably is that it's probably that I'm guess what I've had friends that have done that shit and we're not friends anymore Yeah cuz Cuz what's that there's only
[SPEAKER_00]: so far you can take a friendship with a person who is insecure and actively taking it out on you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And views you as your as their direct competition.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone who views friendship as a competition already is just at such a disadvantage.
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to be friends with people like that is frankly like utterly exhausting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And because the truth is, too, is that it might start with, you know, people that you have a crush on or whatever, but it's so easily could turn into like you're competing over a job or you're competing over like who has a baby first or like who buys a house or whatever, it becomes
[SPEAKER_00]: any all wins do you have they also have to have yes or have to take it from you in some way yes they have to be doing better than you be more desired than you more successful more sought after yeah and if they're not then you're a bad friend
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just not how friendship works.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I mean, my advice, because I think she was kind of like, what do I do?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I bring it up or do I not?
[SPEAKER_01]: My advice on this would be, I don't know how close of friends you all are.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say if you're not super close to just kind of like fade away from this person.
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, I think if you are close, then it merits a conversation and being like, I need to take a step back from this friendship.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the reality is is like, that's not that behavior is not going to get better.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to get worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, like, if having this conversation is something that is a friendship under, then my argument is that you guys weren't actually supposed to be friends in the first place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like,
[SPEAKER_01]: the only arguments or like, you know, conversations I've ever had with people where I'm like, I'm bringing my feelings to them and being like, you hurt my feelings in this way and here's why.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only time that that has ever caused a friendship to end is when that friendship was never supposed to exist in the first place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: A real friend if you brought infirmate like if Maddie brought information to me, or she's like, hey, you did this thing and really hurt my feelings.
[SPEAKER_01]: My immediate response would be like, oh my god, I'm so sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I will never do that again, but with people like that, it's like, I just feel like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Biological besties don't move like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, they just don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like when you meet someone and you just know that they have got bestie vibes This is how I felt when I met Meg for the first time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like that's a biological bestie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like a treat that someone has Yeah, deep inside their bones This person is not a biological bestie.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, and it sounds like you already know that too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it sounds like this person already knows That their friend Like is not a life or
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just nip it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does suck.
[SPEAKER_00]: It sucks to have those conversations.
[SPEAKER_01]: It sucks to be like, hey, this feels weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm just going to kind of, yeah, remove myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: But oh, my god, you're so much better off in the long run.
[SPEAKER_01]: Completely after having those conversations, I mean, you'll feel so much better, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that also, it just puts you on edge when people act like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's so embarrassing for those people to act that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had that one, so I was like, I was out with a friend and I'd like brought them to this party.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had like pointed out the one guy at the party that I thought was cute and I'd like had a crush on for a while and by the end of the night She to me was like, like, what's his deal?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I'm gonna buy a gun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, well, I already kind of told you what his deal was
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also like that friend is putting you in a really weird position too because they're kind of playing chicken with you, where it's like if you express that you have a crush on somebody, they're like, well, you don't own him, so like, I'm going to do something about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my God.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I guess technically you didn't do anything wrong, but you still really hurt my feelings.
[SPEAKER_00]: Be normal challenge.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why'd you do that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thought her my feelings.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's really easy to not move like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have very little patients, Ripple who, yeah, treat their friends like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and just there are just so many people to have crushes on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't don't have crushes on the same, the same people that your friends have crushes on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, don't do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did they say man in this, they said people, they said people, so
[SPEAKER_01]: because I was also gonna say if it's a man oh my god come on you can find those anywhere literal dime a dozen thank you for your submission break up with your friends yeah come on thank you kindly for your submission break up with your friends onwards and upwards yeah they're a better people out there many of them holy shit
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, hot topic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I want to talk about orgasms.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder what orgasms feel like and other people's bodies?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it tension, relax it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Whoa.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it tension, relaxation, release?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm at, whoa, oh my God, am I?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's happening to me?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's your first time reading.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not your first time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm literally starting from the top hot topic.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about orgasms.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder what orgasms feel like and I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean the laugh.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm laughing at how badly I'm reading.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hot topic.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about orgasms.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder what orgasms feel like in other people's bodies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it tension relaxation release?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because as I'm growing up, I feel like what I used to think an orgasm is has changed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm 28, so I've been exploring this topic for some time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, the level of relaxation that I can achieve by myself, I cannot with another person around, or even just watching.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my orgasms are also very different depending on the circumstances.
[SPEAKER_00]: Would love to hear your thoughts on the topic.
[SPEAKER_01]: or go into one of those things that feel like really difficult to put towards.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll try my best.
[SPEAKER_00]: Me too.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it does feel like it's almost like an unexplainable physical sensation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Already it's sounding like what I experience sounds different than what feels different than what this person is describing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you go first.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was in my head,
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like some parts of an orgasm.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like the core part of an orgasm that remains the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then there are parts of it that change not every orgasm doesn't feel the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some feel more expansive than others is what I'll say.
[SPEAKER_00]: In my head, like if I was to explain what the best orgasms that I have feel like,
[SPEAKER_00]: They're the ones that I feel in my whole body that like, yes, there's like the pressure and the pulsing and like the secret third thing that I can't explain, but it does feel like when you picture like rounding a hill of something and it builds up and then it rounds and then it comes down that's also what it feels like inside, but it also expands.
[SPEAKER_00]: outwards.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can feel it going down my legs into my toes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel it come up to my head.
[SPEAKER_00]: I usually feel light headed afterwards.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or my nose will tingle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are the best ones.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the ones that like really, it almost like reverberate out into my entire body and that on the coming down part.
[SPEAKER_00]: they're never reaches a point where I become too sensitive or it becomes painful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which there are a lot of times that it does for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's also fine because I feel like those are, they also feel good on the come up.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just a shorter orgasm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I would say like those are the best ones, and then you have the ones that are pretty similar front half, but then I just become sensitive, much quicker.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it'll be like once I hit the climax point, I have to immediately remove the vibrator or push the person's hand away because I'm like, okay, now it's done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now it's done like can't go for a round to write yeah yeah and then there's like the third option which is the shitty assumption which is when it just feels like almost like a heartbeat and nothing else yeah and those are no fun to me yeah like oh okay that's all like all right
[SPEAKER_01]: Damn it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, those, those to me feel perfunctory.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like those to me feel like I'm like, all right, I guess the job got done.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, well, that was it today.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Damn it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Damn it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I am, I'm really curious about what this person means by my definition of orgasm has changed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, it feels like a very distinct feeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm almost wondering if perhaps this person has maybe been experiencing sexual pleasure, but maybe what wouldn't be like medically classified as an orgasm?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I've had friends who are that word they will be like, yeah, no, I like the pressure builds and it feels really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: but like I don't think that what I'm experiencing is an orgasm and I'm like I don't think it is either.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you there's no way to not know.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no way to not know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once you feel it there's no way that you would be confused about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you are confused about it you probably haven't had one.
[SPEAKER_01]: which is fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people will have sex and sexual experiences and not feel it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And still have really good sex and really good intimacy with people.
[SPEAKER_01]: That said, I mean, I would say I feel similarly to your descriptions of it that I think a lot of times I will, I think what I'm experiencing like a vaginal orgasm,
[SPEAKER_00]: It tends to feel more full body than like a clitoral, clitoral, clitoral, clitoral, clitoral.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe both.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it just depends on your accent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a doctor.
[SPEAKER_01]: External, I'll say.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like an external orgasm tends to be more, I think, like centrally located for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: a pressing like it's a pressure that builds and then yeah there is like a release and then that other quality to it that is more difficult to name.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of how it's always been for me, I would say.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that my orgasms have actually become more full body as I've gotten older.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think when I first started like masturbating and or like hooking up with people, it was very, again, like central.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that I would say that my orgasms had gotten like, better in the sense that,
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I also just feel more inclined to, like, release fully, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think that so much of it is like mental for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And because I've also had partners where like, you know, maybe we'll have sex, or something, you know, like the night before, and I like won't orgasm.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the morning after we'll have sex again, and I will.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for me, that is such like a mental thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, I think sometimes I feel like pressure to perform in a certain way when we first have sex with each other, but then the next morning, it doesn't feel like that anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that those tend to be the times where I have more full body orgasms.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I will say I've never really felt like lightheaded or that my nose tingles or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel it much more like the base of my spine and like kind of down my legs, I would say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and it feels, yeah, like a, just like a big contraction and like release.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say that like the orgasms that I've had with partners are very different than the orgasms I have by myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it really, for me, I think it really depends on the partner.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think as I've gotten older, the people that I have sex with tend to just be better at it than they were when I was like 24, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that they are more attentive to what my body needs.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've had really good orgasms with partners and I've had really good orgasms solo, for me it's like by myself it's good every time.
[SPEAKER_00]: That, yeah, I mean, like it's like, I can't get it wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm in my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, and I can orgasm in two minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I could stretch it out to be 15 by myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I could also do too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I feel like I have so much control over it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's going to be great every time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, with a partner.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll have fun no matter what.
[SPEAKER_00]: The orgasm is not the most important part to me when I'm hooking up with someone.
[SPEAKER_00]: My neither at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but yeah, it's I, it's definitely different.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are some people that have been able to make me orgasm easily.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And others.
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt like I was right on the edge for like a fucking hour.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at that point, I do feel exhausted by that because I'm like, actually I don't even want it anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, I mean, at that point I just call it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just like, we're cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't worry about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually like, I feel like I can't breathe by how I'm like right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like imagining yourself at the edge of a cliff, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, oh my god, I'm scared.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I never even do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just get me out of here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could just turn around and walk home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's how I feel and I just do, and it's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, here's what I will say, too, is that I think I think for myself personally over the past year or so, it's a combination of, I think, I am spoiled and also, or not spoiled, but I guess I've gotten lucky in my, in the sexual partners that I have had, and I am,
[SPEAKER_01]: gonna be a bitch if you don't make me come.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not a way that's like you didn't make me come, but I mean like I'm going to tell you exactly what to do And I'm going to like physically take your hand totally and like move it where you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or I'm going to like I
[SPEAKER_00]: That's sexy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if I'm going to be like if you're like physically inside of me, then I'm going to be like Stay very still, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me do my thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you don't move.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't move.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't move.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me move.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to move around.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me do what I need to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and frankly, I don't I haven't had one person be like, I don't like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, every person that I tell that to enjoy that totally, um, communication is sexy, communication is sexy.
[SPEAKER_00]: When it's real communication.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually, I actually need to come right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's medically necessary.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the story for me to come.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I will say, like, I also,
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never lied about coming when I haven't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I definitely have.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have not.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I haven't orgasmed, if you have not made me orgasmed, I'm not gonna lie until you that you did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I lied a lot in college.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that it's, I think it's a younger person's game.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a younger person's game to lie about coming when you haven't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, there's a certain shame around not achieving orgasm when you're younger, that I feel like when you're older, that kind of goes away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I actually think the shame reverses.
[SPEAKER_01]: where the man feels, or any partner that you're sleeping with, feels a certain level of like, fuck, I didn't make you come.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, any person that I've slept with over the past year, if they have not made me come, they're like, okay, what do I do better next time?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's immediately like, how do I get this to happen for you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I imagine, yeah, again, and I also, again, I didn't have sex for the first time until I was 23 or 24.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was, it was never,
[SPEAKER_01]: to me it was never really like a oh I should lie about this yeah also a lot of the people that I was hooking up with when I first started having sex were like one night stands so like what am I going to do lie to the stranger who I'm never going to see again now I always just used to feel bad because I was like
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes like when they did well like they prefer all things considered they performed well I had a good time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I didn't want them to think they performed badly I knew it was like more me that I didn't orgasm or it was like I was two in my head I was two self-conscious about my body whatever it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, where I would be like I would lie Because it actually wasn't them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I'd be like I actually don't want you to take this personally So I'm gonna lie to you and tell you that I orgasm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's nice
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know that I ever told someone who was like explicitly bad, right, that they did well.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was more of the people that I thought did a good job.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did a good job, but I just didn't come.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't want them to internalize that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's what I will say, too, is I think my ability to orgasm with a partner has changed quite a bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ever since I started on antidepressants, it's still, I still am able to orgasm, but it has, that has changed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think it takes a little bit longer for me to get there than I used to.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that has been an interesting experience too has been like I think the it's not that it's gone away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I think it just does take like a little bit more time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I think that it's just I think that like someone's relationship with or with their own orgasms and like their relationship with their sexuality, it's just going to change over time, you know, and it's so it's it's going to be something where it's like maybe something that got you off a couple years ago doesn't get you off today.
[SPEAKER_01]: um, and vice versa.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's completely okay and it's just more than anything I think just important to meet that with curiosity rather than, uh, like shame or judgment of yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've found that smoking weed actually makes me very horny.
[SPEAKER_01]: Never knew this before.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I started noticing it about myself and then I was like, hold on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me see what the people are saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I just found a bunch of people on Reddit being like, does anyone else feel this way?
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, yes, me.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I couldn't find any like concrete explanation for why that is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I have no idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's just that your body is relaxing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really interesting, because I have had the same experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a sensation to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's like my hips start to feel looser.
[SPEAKER_00]: If that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I understand that I am horny because my hips feel looser.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like I feel a breeze that doesn't exist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like now we're just using like metaphors.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is like not a helpful explanation of We're guys in awe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just like trying to explain the unexplainable There's a shift in the air all this had an I just I feel like doing a little boogie woogie woogie woogie You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know when you start to feel the boogie woogie to hold that's what it feels like the boogie woogie But it's happening inside of you You know what I mean or gazzams are like when the boogie woogie happens inside of you
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, also, what's the science behind why you point your feet when you orgasm?
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you're going to just a muscle thing, science questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Science questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I need a woman in STEM that I can call up when I have a question like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, why do I point my toes when I have an orgasm?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why am I toes pointed when I come?
[SPEAKER_00]: But where's Cha Cha when you need her?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I used to think was really funny when I was younger is I was like, oh my god, that's so funny when people like shake when they have an orgasm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Guess who fucking does that now?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh really?
[SPEAKER_01]: This old gal.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never shook.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I like exclusively shake now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't know when that started or why.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like a...
[SPEAKER_00]: I've shook like on on the cusp of one if I'm like stuck there, but I won't shake during the orgasm itself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I shake during.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, did we answer your question?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know if we did.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if we did either, but I do like talking about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Me too.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess again, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like kind of a nothing answer, but it is like contraction and release for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do think again, if you're saying like my definition of orgasm has changed, I'm not sure of what I was experiencing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't think maybe then you were having orgasms when you were younger.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: it's like there's like a central common theme yeah you can have different kinds of orgasms yeah yeah but they all have one thing in common right unfortunately I can't really explain it's yet it's contracting and releasing but it's not a key goal it's not a key goal so it's like these words are doing is it justice and it's like ripples of pleasure yeah that intensify
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then hit like a breaking point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did we do it?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when you were as I when you were guys, I mean, you started doing the the riff from shallow.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like that's what it feels like.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what that's a good place of life.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know the demon watches I dive in it honestly that is what it is exactly what it feels like Yeah, that's what it is in your groin in your groin
[SPEAKER_00]: hope that helps.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hope that helps.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this next one is labeled eldest daughter seeking advice from eldest daughter though I'm interested to hear your perspective.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: As the youngest daughter.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll provide color commentary of the youngest daughter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm familiar with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: This
[SPEAKER_00]: I've reflected on the past few times I've felt angry lately and they've all been times when I loved one either younger than me or behind me on a life path and lists my help about something that I had to figure out fully by myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Being the first in my family to go to college in the US, I had to figure out taxes, work permits, leases and grad school applications all in a different language.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody in my family could help me because nobody had experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't fault them at all and I'm infinitely grateful to them for supporting my education.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now that my younger sister is at the same stage that I was years ago, I feel that my parents go out of their way to cuddle her while heavily involving me in processes that I feel my sister should be responsible for learning, often at the expense of my time and energy.
[SPEAKER_00]: My family and I are so, so close, and I feel deeply compelled to take care of them in all the ways I can, but part of me resents the double standard, a sizable part of which I understand is nobody's fault.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yet, I observed that over time, I've grown exhausted with this emotional responsibility of service that I've learned to feel towards my loved ones, and it's causing me to feel a better kind of irritation in similar situations that arise in my other close relationships.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this maybe the so-called eldest daughter wound?
[SPEAKER_00]: I resonate with your introspection and the love you have your family, so I'm super curious about your thoughts.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it is the eldest daughter wound.
[SPEAKER_00]: I relate to this in very different ways, but I feel like there is a kind of, when you're the first person in your family, when you're the first child that your parents raise, they do a lot of the learning with you that they don't have to do with your siblings.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you do have to watch
[SPEAKER_00]: both fascinating and sometimes frustrating yeah and I definitely felt throughout my childhood and even now in my adulthood some frustration in witnessing the different versions of my parents that my younger siblings got in comparison to what I got and that's no shade to my parents um they did a great job I'm very grateful to them but in all kinds of you know
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also relate to the idea of like always being seen as like a hyper-independent kid and being the type of kid that my parents never had to worry about.
[SPEAKER_00]: So therefore, I was
[SPEAKER_00]: less coddled or less supported, because I didn't need to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what it meant to see my siblings get a different kind of support from my family, if they deemed them to be deserving of it in ways that I wasn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I felt that some of my independence came from a place of necessity,
[SPEAKER_00]: I am a very naturally independent person.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am very type A. I think there are lots of parts of me that it's the correct assessment to see that I am self-sufficient independent.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a go-getter.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will figure things out.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't need to hold my hand through the process.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can get shit done.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know they always say like if you need something done give it to a busy person if you need something done go give it to an eldest daughter because she'll figure it out yeah and I know a lot of those things to be true about me naturally and I do feel like a lot of eldest daughters become that because they are positioned to be that person and their family off-rip
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I did witness myself in adulthood, start to grow resentful in friendships where I was the one organizing, planning, always putting things together, and my energy was not being matched.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've talked about this on the show a couple times.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I get it because this was a frustration that followed me into my other relationships, not related to my family.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am someone who has a very small amount of patience for people that aren't incompetent in any way or that act like they just can't figure something out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a real frustration with people who aren't independent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think there's been moments in my life where I have had to attempt to be helpful towards
[SPEAKER_00]: who was acting like something that to me was so easy, but to them was so hard, and how it frustrated me a little bit, like going on an airplane by yourself, or like, you know, when you get to an airport calling a car, or like organizing your schedule, things that like to me, I'm like, this is easy because I've done it for so long, and because I had to be the one to do it for myself, and I'm happy to,
[SPEAKER_00]: be independent and live a life that I don't need to rely on anyone to do those things for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can, you know, you could drop me at anywhere in New York City without a phone and I'd be able to find my way back home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's no part of me that is like,
[SPEAKER_00]: you'd need to hand hold me to figure things out in life.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can find my way, and I've definitely found myself getting overly frustrated at people who aren't like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, yeah, I'm not always the most gentle and understanding of people that do require a lot of hand holding because yet that that wasn't my experience and I'm also glad that it wasn't to be clear.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, well, it sounds like this person is dealing with a lot of like layers on top of the fact that they're an eldest daughter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it sounds like they are perhaps a first generation, like citizen in the U.S. and that they're first generation, like college kid in the U.S. and maybe they're also dealing with like parents who perhaps, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: perhaps, like, don't speak English at all, which is in and of itself, like, eldest daughter, eldest son, whatever, is like an incredibly challenging position to be in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, like, watch videos and, and, you know, read articles and things like that from people's perspective, but like that is in and of itself like a very unique perspective, to be like someone so young who's put in charge of
[SPEAKER_01]: You are the only person who could possibly like communicate between like people who are giving your parents legal documents And your parents who have to like sign these legal documents that they might not even be able to read like that is a really really difficult thing
[SPEAKER_01]: And on top of that, also having this like eldest daughter responsibility is profound, I would say.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's no wonder that you feel resentment for people in your life who are trying to figure things out that you had to figure out entirely for yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, it's interesting because I am, I'm the youngest of three, but there's a pretty significant amount of age difference between my brother, he's four years older than me and my sister is almost six years older than me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're very close in age and then it was me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that doesn't feel like a super significant age difference now, but when you're younger, it's like massive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like both of my siblings were out of the house by the time I was a freshman in high school.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I spent my entire high school career alone.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think,
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, my family and I are very close, my siblings and I are very close.
[SPEAKER_01]: We all have very good relationships that said, um, those years were very formative to me and also the years that I was like alone the most.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I, as a result, also became like hyper-independent, very much so like figuring stuff out for myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was, I was,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, never going to be someone being like, I'm bored.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do I do?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I'm going to figure it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, um, and figured out like, oh, I need like meals for myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or I need to figure out like my schedule, uh, and how I'm going to get home from this rehearsal because my parents are both out of town.
[SPEAKER_01]: My sister and brother don't live here and that sort of a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm also the only, um, sibling who has like moved away and stayed, moved away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, my brother did move to LA and then eventually moved back to Chicago and um, I think that that has also bred a lot of independence as well, like you move to an entirely new city by yourself and you just have to figure it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: What I will say is that as recently as like a couple weeks ago, my sister, my older sister, she's the eldest daughter called me because she wanted advice on something about like her career and like finances and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was kind of one of the first times I had ever experienced something like that where it was like an older person, my family calling me for advice
[SPEAKER_01]: But I thought it was so interesting because I was like, wow, this is like the first time that I feel like I can like impart some sort of wisdom on people, not that I like never have before or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But just like in the kind of like grander like life advice way and, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: I think life is long and I do think that there are going to be moments where you will realize that like maybe your younger sibling knows something that you don't and that that will be a moment where you can go to them for support.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what you can hope for is that in that moment, they will treat you with that sort of compassion and kindness that you've met them with, time and time again over the years.
[SPEAKER_01]: That said, you know, I think given the situation that you're in now and that, you know, your younger sister, it sounds like is still a little bit younger, like going to college and that sort of everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it could be worth.
[SPEAKER_01]: having a conversation with your younger sister about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your parents are another thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't claim to not everybody's parents or my parents who were like, you know, turned 50 and for whatever reason they were like, we're going to go to therapy and like, yeah, you know, have become like more compassionate and open-minded as they've got an older.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that's not the case for everybody's parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think maybe the answer is like, talk to your parents, they'll totally understand.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, maybe your sister would.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like sometimes with sisters it's like it doesn't even need to be a big conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no matter of like expressing frustration with like how your parents have parented you differently or like what positions you've been put in that your sister isn't and just like saying it out loud.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: My siblings and I have talked about that a lot because my sister and I at you know a few years ago were like very frustrated with the way that we felt like
[SPEAKER_00]: And we, this is true about daughters and sons and the way they're treated differently because I think my sister is also like very independent and she and I are very similar in a lot of those those ways and she's four years younger than me yeah and we did get different versions of our parents and in other ways, but I do think like when you look at my two brothers versus me and Morgan, there are big differences yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would also like, I don't know, there could be something there about like starting a conversation with your sister about like, what version of parents she got, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because from your perspective, it might be this thing where it's like, oh, she got like the easy parents who are always, you know, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I've had conversations with my sister and my brother where they were like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know that you felt that way, you know, where, yes, perhaps my parents were more lenient when I was a teenager growing up, but they were also not there as much.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like that was something that was a difficult thing for me to explain to my brother and sister, that not that they were absent, but then
[SPEAKER_01]: I was alone a lot more than they were and that their relationships with our parents was very different as teenagers than my relationship with them was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, and so honestly, I think my sister would say something similar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if that's like a typical like sibling trajectory.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe maybe because I do think there is something to be said for
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like independent younger sister, yeah, who are just kind of like left to their own devices and they're good kids so they're not, you know, you don't really have to worry about a much Hmm, that was kind of my whole deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I always used to say that like Morgan was like, I mean, I still say this Morgan is like classic middle child syndrome to the max guy I see my family sometimes forgetting her and it's usually me that's like
[SPEAKER_00]: And what about Morgan?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And how's Morgan going to be involved in this, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is interesting because it's like I now also, I'm the youngest and I also only one of my family members who doesn't live in Chicago.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, you know, it's an it's an interesting dynamic too.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's like I distinctly remember when you know it was me and my brother, his girlfriend at the time and my parents were all home living at my parents house during COVID.
[SPEAKER_01]: And holy shit, I never felt like I was more watched and like literally parented than when I was 23 and like living at home Because like I would go for a walk and I would have like seven calls for my brother being like where are you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Mom made dinner and I'm like hello
[SPEAKER_01]: like we are all roommates as far as I am concerned like I'll be home when I say I'm coming home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't worry about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it's like I think I think as far as feeling that resentment, I would recommend also having that conversation earlier rather than later because those types of things can just breed and fester and fester as you get older and those are really hard dynamics to break out of as you get older.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you guys have ever witnessed your parents talk about your aunts and uncles, but holy shit, sometimes people hold on to stuff from when they were like totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, well, Uncle Mark has always been this way since he stole my bicycle at Christmas, and it's like, whoa, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is resentment from decades ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's better to like work through those things now.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not to say that that's an easy conversation to have.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I distinctly remember having honestly not like a dissimilar conversation with my brother a couple of years ago because we had just really drifted apart as like a result of a relationship that he was in that I really didn't, not that I didn't approve of it, but I just didn't like fuck with the vibes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it made him really different as a result.
[SPEAKER_01]: It, you know, it just changed our relationship to me a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was very, all of a sudden became very like patronizing towards me, which I had never, ever wanted or as for.
[SPEAKER_01]: I felt a lot of resentment build up over those years and eventually did bring that conversation to him where, you know, I basically said, hey, like you haven't really been a part of my life for many years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you're back in it and you're acting as though we're buddy buddy and you're kind of making me feel guilty for when I don't respond in kind.
[SPEAKER_01]: And um, I don't really know how to talk to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And those are not easy conversations to have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think like I know for a fact that our relationship has since become much easier to navigate for sure since that conversation opens up the door for more closeness and intimacy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I also think there's something to be said about like for as much as I understand and relate to Just wanting other people to like figure it out because you figured it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's honestly that's like my hubris.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything like
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is something to be said for just like helping your sibling because you know better and because you've gone through it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've had this frustration with my parents before.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like,
[SPEAKER_00]: My dad will sometimes expect me to know business things that I don't know right And he would be he's a business owner.
[SPEAKER_00]: He would be the person I look to for a business advice Yeah, and sometimes he is resistant to give it to me because he wants me to figure it out on my own and then I'm like okay But you're my you're you're
[SPEAKER_00]: you're the guy you you're my guy that's supposed to teach in helping which again this is I think our Paris generation my dad is very much like he wants me to get out there and pull myself up and figure it all out on my own right I get it it's very that generation
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I, I sometimes, I think there's like a turning point where it's like, yes, there are some things that you should let people do on their own, but I think there's a healthy amount of like helping people and allowing your expertise and experience, and like being the older sister and going through something first and being able to relieve any stress or pressure off your siblings, shoulders.
[SPEAKER_00]: that you had to deal with that maybe was like really intense or like heavy for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is some joy in being able to like release some of that from your sibling because you know better.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that our parents' generation is really resistant to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I don't want to be resistant to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if I can make my siblings life easier in some way I actually want to yeah if I can make like, you know, not even a sibling someone younger than me's life easier I think this comes up a lot when people talk about like free college No, a lot of older people are like well, I had to pay for my college So I don't want anyone to have any school for free and it's like no actually I want
[SPEAKER_00]: People younger than me to have it easier.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I want them to think about these things less So that they can think about other things more and so it's like yes There's a healthy amount of frustration to be had with people who are like, you know Can't figure out how to navigate an airport without losing their minds?
[SPEAKER_00]: That I will find infinitely frustrating for the rest of my life But like there are other things that I think it's okay for us to say
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we had to figure it out ourselves and it was hard and it was a grind and it sucked and we learned so much from it and It doesn't have to be like that for everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it also just won't be like that forever Yeah, you know what I mean like they're will come a day where your younger sibling is like out of school And they are an adult and they have like some years of like their professional career under their belt and sort that sort of a thing
[SPEAKER_01]: And eventually it'll start to feel much more even killed than it did.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that also just goes for like people in your life in general.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, he's like right on the edge of the bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, I guess that's the spot that you want to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that it's also the case for people in your life in general.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think about, I have come to you with questions about, you know, how do I do this thing for social media or, you know, I will go to my friend and be like, who's a nurse and be like, hey, I have these symptoms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, help me help with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or my friend who is much more like financially responsible than me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, so how do I budget?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think that that's just like you said.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, that's just like fostering community.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, yeah, I think, again, like the resentment part, I think is like totally understandable and like to have so many years under your belt of like doing this over and over again is completely understandable.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, there's a way to like support and also justify moments where you're like, you know what?
[SPEAKER_01]: You got this.
[SPEAKER_01]: because it also shows I think that like you trust your younger sibling, right, too, to be like, you got it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I trust you, like you can do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're you're an adult.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's the difference between like, and I'm going to use a real life example.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was in an airport with someone, I'm always going back to airports.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're always in an airport.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got so many beef with airports in general.
[SPEAKER_00]: I obviously know my way around figuring out like an Uber ad an airport.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've traveled by myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are also a lot of signs.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great point.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are a lot of signs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ground transport.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is where to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ground transport.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, it's super easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, don't even worry about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: This person was a little bit stressed out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was going again, we were going in different directions.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just said to this person, like, all you have to do is go out that door and walk down to where you see this sign.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you'll be good.
[SPEAKER_00]: You order it from there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's the difference between telling someone, like, all you gotta do is do that and do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll be good.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the person that wants you to walk with them
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, even though you clearly and explicitly explained that it's just through that door there and around the corner right that's the difference Yeah, where it's like it's the people that you can help out without like overly coddling and the people that like can't even walk out the door Yeah, and like look around the corner with curiosity without someone holding their head
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I get that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like, um, you know, I think I honestly used to be a little bit more like that when I was younger.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, Because I just had more fear generally.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, it's like at some point you just gotta be like, totally, okay, I'm gonna do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's like, I think a lot of it makes sense when you're young.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you get older and you do just kind of have to get with it a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you just kind of lock in.
[SPEAKER_00]: First time doing anything is scary, totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, listen, but like, you're capable.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're capable, that's the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that what it boils down to is like,
[SPEAKER_00]: instilling autonomy in people that you're helping to make them believe that they can do this I'll help you a little bit yeah, but like ultimately it's you that has to like yeah walk out the door and turn the corner
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't believe that you can't believe that another world is possible when you can walk out the door and turn the corner.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not worried about you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you have full, you know, you are going to walk out that door and round the corner and it's all going to go perfectly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's going to be awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not worried.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I have to leave the door and turn the corner with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you can do it just fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really believe in you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe girl.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe you're going to be just fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be just fine, and your siblings are going to be just fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it sounds like right now they're just young.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and they'll get older.
[SPEAKER_01]: And time will pass, and they'll learn stuff, and they'll make mistakes, just like you did.
[SPEAKER_01]: And how lucky are they that they have you to help them along the way?
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know who the fuck I would be without my brother and sister.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus Christ.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know who the fuck I'd be without Lady Gaga.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was my older sister.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm of the Jeep and watch as I die man You're seeing that as much as the person out there who are poor the door I'm of the Jeep and watch as much as I die man That's how I felt going to the airport by myself at the first time with Lady Gaga beneath my wings
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is hard for me to answer this too because I do have like youngest child pride where I was like, well, I actually did know everything and I was I was the one telling my sibling that's like that's like fully youngest child who has like a few years removed from their siblings It's like well, no, actually I do know my way around
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like when my brother was when we were all living together during COVID and my brother would be like, well, you know, George likes it like our dog George likes it when you do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yeah, you know, I've lived here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I live here.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't live here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I live here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, you were gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Luke definitely did that with me all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: You would be like, oh yeah, well, you should actually do this with the dishwasher.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm the owner of this house.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I did also would be like the reverse of that too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I remember Luke trying to take credit for teaching the dog a trick that I talked to dog and ice cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, Luke, you did not teach the dog to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's so high school.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so like, that's the siblings, like, Cisyphus argument forever and ever with.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why did this annoy me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why did this?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just, you do that forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm lucky for Luke.
[SPEAKER_00]: My grandma watched me slave away teaching that dog how to shake my hand in high school.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I gave him slices of Lendilake's white American cheese.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Jack did teach George how to do shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I taught George how to do stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I moved to know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't teach George anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, yeah, I didn't teach it at the call.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, these are classic sibling.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's classic sibling beef, but the thing is, again, you have a much easier in talking to your siblings than you do your parents.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your parents?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: The parents who your parents are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a real heavy depends who your parents are, but
[SPEAKER_01]: your siblings easier easier to have those conversations for sure and easier to have them now rather than 40 years from now when you're 60 totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like one of your parents dies and then you're like I have resentment towards my sibling for the thing that happened to 40 years and you have to learn how to let things go and if you can't let it go you need to talk about it and work through it so that you can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well thanks for listening to today's audience submission episode with which in which we discussed three audience
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because we be talking.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do be talking.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we just do more audience emission.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, just we'll just do this more all the time actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe just all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just keep loading up that box.
[SPEAKER_01]: whatever you do, load up my box.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoa.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sure I won't show my control.
[SPEAKER_00]: Be sure to follow the podcast at Emotionally Online Pod on Instagram and TikTok.
[SPEAKER_00]: Be sure to cop some merch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Emotionally Online.shop.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can follow me at Maddie Drawsmeck.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can follow me at my Groco.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we will see you guys next week.