WEBVTT 00:00.311 --> 00:12.990 [SPEAKER_02]: So today we want to talk to you about a dynamic that happened between the two of us that really like flipped back and forth in the last couple days and and what happened was basically terraces something that that kind of hurt to hear. 00:13.658 --> 00:29.645 [SPEAKER_00]: I said, well, basically, I feel like I can't support you without losing myself, like I either have to choose to be in this heaviness with you or the stressful place, or we have to find my joyful mood elsewhere since you can't be in it with me right now. 00:30.225 --> 00:35.247 [SPEAKER_00]: And that just felt like neither of those two feel really good for me, but I felt a little trapped. 00:35.528 --> 00:41.732 [SPEAKER_02]: And then basically two days later, I walked into the kitchen and terror was in a really dark place. 00:42.153 --> 00:47.076 [SPEAKER_02]: And I felt that thing of like, well, what do I just like leave her and just let her be? 00:47.517 --> 00:49.438 [SPEAKER_02]: Do I try to get her out of it? 00:50.178 --> 01:00.946 [SPEAKER_02]: And it brought us to this question that we want to explore today is, you know, what is really our job as each other's partner when the other person is really struggling? 01:01.186 --> 01:03.208 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and the question we ask is, 01:03.935 --> 01:10.981 [SPEAKER_02]: am I trying to love my partner or am I trying to change their emotional state so I feel more comfortable? 01:16.125 --> 01:30.516 [SPEAKER_00]: Hello all and welcome to the Relationship Innovation podcast where we talk all things relationships whether it's our own or just providing some really good set education on skills we need to have awesome intimate relationships that we deserve. 01:30.536 --> 01:30.876 [SPEAKER_00]: I am 01:31.877 --> 01:33.018 [SPEAKER_02]: My name is E.J. 01:33.058 --> 01:43.228 [SPEAKER_02]: Kerwin, and today we're asking the question, what does love look like if it's no longer my responsibility to change my partner's mood? 01:43.809 --> 01:46.851 [SPEAKER_02]: And this came out of two separate moments. 01:46.892 --> 01:50.315 [SPEAKER_02]: So first, you set the stage on the first one with me, Tara. 01:51.084 --> 01:52.945 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, gosh, it was the other night. 01:53.706 --> 01:56.488 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just like in my like light mood. 01:57.309 --> 01:58.489 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it just feels good. 01:58.830 --> 02:03.813 [SPEAKER_00]: I love when I'm in light moods because going through all these, anyone knows men have had symptoms. 02:04.514 --> 02:08.476 [SPEAKER_00]: Like when I'm in my light mood, I'm like, yes, winning, I've had good sleep. 02:08.577 --> 02:09.417 [SPEAKER_00]: I had a good day. 02:09.457 --> 02:10.358 [SPEAKER_00]: I felt productive. 02:10.398 --> 02:12.079 [SPEAKER_00]: I probably worked out or went to yoga. 02:12.559 --> 02:14.261 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm jamming, I am jamming. 02:14.881 --> 02:18.223 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I just sensed this like heaviness from E.J. 02:18.604 --> 02:19.905 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just like, oh. 02:20.645 --> 02:41.833 [SPEAKER_00]: and then it just reminds me of all those heavy times in our relationship and then I'm trying to like get out of him like what's happening and how can I change things and then I'm going into my town of like codependency like okay like if you're heavy I just have to be heavy too or I have to find my jewelry elsewhere I create this whole story for myself. 02:42.593 --> 02:58.652 [SPEAKER_00]: like if because I'm joyful and you're not that I can't hold on to my joy and it sucks because my moments of joy are like very important to me now so then I get resentful towards you that you can't be consistently joyful. 03:00.173 --> 03:03.595 [SPEAKER_00]: And I get confused because I'm like, oh my God, yesterday he was like so late. 03:04.075 --> 03:09.238 [SPEAKER_00]: And it felt so good and he was like kissing me and like smiling. 03:09.758 --> 03:14.261 [SPEAKER_00]: And today like I don't think we've even looked at each other in the eyes and he hasn't even hugged me once. 03:14.281 --> 03:23.406 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I just get into the story of like I don't even know victim and sadness and like either just needs to be more consistent and his mood is. 03:24.245 --> 03:33.789 [SPEAKER_02]: And then okay, so what's interesting is we went through that and it was it wasn't an easy conversation because what I was saying is like I feel like I lose myself with you. 03:33.949 --> 03:45.453 [SPEAKER_02]: I just have to join you in that or I just have to leave you behind and I'm not doing it anymore And so it felt like all this pressure on me of like I just got to get over what whatever whatever I'm in, right? 03:46.033 --> 03:50.095 [SPEAKER_02]: So then fast forward like to 48 hours later or a day later 03:51.455 --> 03:53.996 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it could have been who knows, and I think it was. 03:54.596 --> 03:55.696 [SPEAKER_02]: We finished our day. 03:55.756 --> 03:57.597 [SPEAKER_02]: It feels like it's been a pretty good day. 03:57.657 --> 03:58.437 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited. 03:58.617 --> 04:03.678 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm having a good day, and I walk in the kitchen and Tara is just shut down. 04:04.118 --> 04:05.959 [SPEAKER_02]: Shut down, dark. 04:06.219 --> 04:07.880 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think she's not just shut down. 04:08.340 --> 04:11.521 [SPEAKER_02]: Like everything sucks in her life. 04:12.441 --> 04:15.862 [SPEAKER_02]: And I go into the same place where I'm like, 04:16.982 --> 04:34.043 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't understand like we just like painted our house and you were so excited and life was amazing and you appreciate me and now it's like Yeah, everything sucks and so I have a similar but different protocol I go through of like there's this part of me that just wants to leave the kitchen It's just like I don't want to be around this. 04:34.083 --> 04:34.563 [SPEAKER_02]: This is like 04:35.284 --> 04:39.027 [SPEAKER_02]: This is not fun, but then I'm like, no, I can't do that. 04:39.447 --> 04:42.550 [SPEAKER_02]: So then it's like, okay, how do I, how do I help her? 04:42.670 --> 04:47.154 [SPEAKER_02]: How do I get her out of this, right? 04:47.954 --> 04:57.662 [SPEAKER_02]: And basically what it came down to when we started talking about like, wow, these two things happen at the same time is like, what is going on here? 04:57.782 --> 04:59.464 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, we both 05:00.144 --> 05:10.347 [SPEAKER_02]: in these moments feel like it's our job to get the other person to stop being or feeling whatever they're feeling. 05:10.607 --> 05:15.609 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that it can match whatever we're feeling make us less uncomfortable. 05:15.749 --> 05:15.969 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 05:16.389 --> 05:18.309 [SPEAKER_02]: And then when it doesn't work, right? 05:18.970 --> 05:19.810 [SPEAKER_02]: Like when when 05:20.274 --> 05:44.219 [SPEAKER_00]: well it gets it we get defensive with each other like when we try to pull each other out of it you got defensive with me and then I got defensive with you because my mind is like oh I can't I guess I can't be in a bad mood because eating needs me to be in a good mood so yeah you'll even say stuff like what do you want me to be what do you what do you need for me tell me what to do and I'm like uh I'm just trying to help and so I see you and you'll go into your justification 06:00.554 --> 06:05.295 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think like the first thing we had to talk about is like, let's talk about from each side. 06:05.796 --> 06:06.316 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, first. 06:06.376 --> 06:07.196 [SPEAKER_02]: And we can identify. 06:07.236 --> 06:15.178 [SPEAKER_02]: This is like wonderful because this is one of the few things in our relationship where we really both experience both sides of this dynamic, right? 06:15.598 --> 06:18.079 [SPEAKER_02]: So when let's let's both sit together. 06:18.099 --> 06:18.539 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 06:18.919 --> 06:20.319 [SPEAKER_02]: So when we're the one who 06:22.440 --> 06:25.903 [SPEAKER_02]: is feeling sort of put out by the other person's mood. 06:26.684 --> 06:35.111 [SPEAKER_02]: Like when I'm in a dark mood, when you're in a negative mood, what's it like for us to be the person witnessing that? 06:36.532 --> 06:43.098 [SPEAKER_00]: For me, I feel a little powerless and confused. 06:43.718 --> 06:45.200 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't know how to help. 06:46.241 --> 06:49.704 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I'm frustrated and I feel lonely and sad. 06:51.215 --> 07:03.083 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel I think I feel confused like you because I'm like what yeah, especially because you're such a generally happy person and so when it just like like I'm like what happened? 07:03.123 --> 07:08.127 [SPEAKER_02]: Like that's always like almost my first instinct and I have to be careful about saying that to you because then it's like 07:08.847 --> 07:10.689 [SPEAKER_02]: it messages something's wrong with you. 07:11.089 --> 07:13.731 [SPEAKER_02]: But my mind is automatically like, what's going on? 07:14.372 --> 07:17.694 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, who did what, what, who screwed up, who screwed up here? 07:17.714 --> 07:18.255 [SPEAKER_02]: Was it me? 07:18.935 --> 07:26.582 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I do feel resentful because it's like so hard to be around, right? 07:27.162 --> 07:33.487 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I feel like maybe a feeling of rejection. 07:36.670 --> 07:42.554 [SPEAKER_00]: I could say that I also feel resentful and I think that's the piece that we both feel in those moments of suffering. 07:42.574 --> 07:45.156 [SPEAKER_00]: We can feel it from each other, so that's where it feels yucky. 07:45.176 --> 07:48.339 [SPEAKER_02]: We resent that the other person is dragging our houses down. 07:48.479 --> 07:52.522 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where like emotional safety is we're still working on that area. 07:53.302 --> 07:53.643 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 07:53.683 --> 07:54.684 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so a switch. 07:54.764 --> 07:56.967 [SPEAKER_02]: Now let's both be the dark people. 07:58.328 --> 08:09.723 [SPEAKER_02]: What's it like in those moments of darkness for you when I'm like witnessing it, when I'm trying to interact with you, trying to support you? 08:10.392 --> 08:32.484 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, well, I feel like you're trying to make it better or change it so then I feel even more stuck and resentful and then I feel like I just need space and I just don't want you to talk to me because I know I'll figure it out myself and I know that it'll pass so stop trying to change it because I know it'll pass. 08:33.525 --> 08:39.567 [SPEAKER_00]: So it feels like again, maybe just I feel like I know you're trying to be helpful, but it's not helpful. 08:39.647 --> 08:40.607 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just want you to leave. 08:41.768 --> 08:42.808 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, I'm just being honest. 08:43.048 --> 08:43.968 [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's great to know. 08:43.988 --> 08:44.949 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I didn't know that. 08:45.009 --> 08:45.729 [SPEAKER_02]: Like yeah. 08:45.929 --> 08:52.611 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I always assume that you want me to stay like because what you tell me afterwards in those moments, 08:53.371 --> 09:04.260 [SPEAKER_02]: Is you want me to come towards you and so it's interesting that there's like some sort of a tug and pull there Well, no, I would want you to come towards me if it wasn't about you trying to change me. 09:04.300 --> 09:04.901 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, okay. 09:05.401 --> 09:05.962 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll get there. 09:06.002 --> 09:07.683 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay So how about me? 09:07.743 --> 09:09.925 [SPEAKER_02]: How do I feel in those moments? 09:10.085 --> 09:11.526 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel judged. 09:11.827 --> 09:16.110 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like I feel like like I am on trial I am judging you. 09:16.250 --> 09:17.652 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes, I feel it 09:18.572 --> 09:26.196 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't feel, it doesn't feel supportive, like it doesn't feel like, oh, you're doing it because you really care I'm in a dark place. 09:26.576 --> 09:40.822 [SPEAKER_02]: It feels like you're doing it because you are resentful that I'm struggling with stress around money, that I still don't understand why I get so grumpy when there's five kids sleeping over our house. 09:46.465 --> 09:47.526 [SPEAKER_02]: What's wrong with me? 09:47.606 --> 09:49.848 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what is my problem? 09:49.908 --> 09:58.294 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I get really, I get really like down on myself about like what is my problem? 10:00.287 --> 10:04.048 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's another piece of it too, sorry, just to bring this in. 10:04.549 --> 10:18.694 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the summer and I'm trying to have more of a light feel in the summer because I know school starts in four weeks and like, you know, our other life, which is amazing, it's just like we're up by five, three and getting all the kids to school and like, 10:19.355 --> 10:38.355 [SPEAKER_00]: Working our little tails off and so I'm trying to create this like lightness for this summer for the next four weeks And so now I'm creating pressure for the lightness to because I just want it I want this summer to feel different than our Normal like lies when the kids are in school because there's just so much more responsibility It's like it's so nice to just like not have like 10:38.975 --> 10:46.578 [SPEAKER_00]: The homework and the like lunches and the driving to all the different and so it's like even more I'm like we only have four weeks left. 10:46.658 --> 10:52.060 [SPEAKER_00]: Like please be light like I just have this expectation that it'll Be different for the summer. 10:52.080 --> 10:59.163 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so okay, so so it's also on spoken Expectations that might be a little tiny unrealistic 10:59.643 --> 11:09.250 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think what we're talking to and being curious today about the position that both of us are in when the other person is struggling. 11:09.310 --> 11:11.831 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's what that's our primary focus here. 11:12.212 --> 11:16.134 [SPEAKER_02]: And what we're identifying is that we both sort of do the same thing. 11:16.655 --> 11:24.740 [SPEAKER_02]: We're both our sort of resentful that the other person is in that native headspace and we're both sort of 11:29.303 --> 11:34.425 [SPEAKER_02]: by the other person, but maybe also by our own inability to impact the situation. 11:35.206 --> 11:36.706 [SPEAKER_02]: So why do we do that? 11:36.866 --> 11:37.567 [SPEAKER_02]: Like why do we? 11:37.847 --> 11:38.987 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, a we humans. 11:40.068 --> 11:41.749 [SPEAKER_00]: And we just want to feel comfortable. 11:41.769 --> 11:45.851 [SPEAKER_00]: And we want people to match our energy, right? 11:45.931 --> 11:48.512 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's just like a normal part of being human like. 11:49.272 --> 11:53.017 [SPEAKER_00]: when I'm in a good mood and you're in a good mood like we're living our best lives. 11:53.617 --> 12:04.591 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's like a piece of us just like selfish and then also like we're also in each other's orbits all of the time and we're bound to like impact when another. 12:05.772 --> 12:21.240 [SPEAKER_00]: And it looks like love, like if I can just get you out of this heavy place and like bring you to a light place, that'll be good for us, right, because it feels like love, but honestly what it is is like we feel the opposite, we feel judged and like you have to change me. 12:21.680 --> 12:27.443 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think the better we get in these moments, like it'll pass and we can come back to each other. 12:27.463 --> 12:32.365 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we just have to get we have to be more skillful and I'm already know like what skill I 12:34.626 --> 12:44.052 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think that to name what you just said is the other person's emotional state becomes our emotional problem, right? 12:44.252 --> 12:44.432 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 12:44.632 --> 12:48.215 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, you, I'm heavy, you're negative. 12:49.327 --> 12:53.811 [SPEAKER_02]: and it's your problem that I'm heavy because it's negatively impacting you. 12:54.011 --> 12:54.292 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 12:54.592 --> 12:59.296 [SPEAKER_02]: If you're negative, it's my problem that you're negative. 12:59.577 --> 13:01.058 [SPEAKER_02]: So we don't look at it. 13:01.158 --> 13:05.202 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we don't look at it as an opportunity to be supportive of one another. 13:05.622 --> 13:09.466 [SPEAKER_02]: We maybe kind of fake ourselves into believing we are being supportive. 13:09.726 --> 13:19.691 [SPEAKER_02]: But really what we're doing, it's back to that whole caretaking thing, is we're caretaking the other person's emotional state because we're uncomfortable with the way it makes us feel. 13:19.731 --> 13:20.012 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 13:20.452 --> 13:22.373 [SPEAKER_02]: And that is problematic. 13:22.453 --> 13:22.773 [SPEAKER_00]: It is. 13:23.153 --> 13:23.714 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 13:23.994 --> 13:24.834 [SPEAKER_02]: Because what? 13:25.535 --> 13:26.835 [SPEAKER_02]: Why doesn't that work for you? 13:26.855 --> 13:27.136 [SPEAKER_02]: When I'm 13:31.958 --> 13:34.140 [SPEAKER_02]: be there for you because I can feel it. 13:34.240 --> 13:38.724 [SPEAKER_00]: I can feel it's not genuine care in that moment. 13:38.784 --> 13:48.012 [SPEAKER_00]: It's about me having to shift quickly because you're uncomfortable with my anger, sadness, disappointment, not whatever it is. 13:48.252 --> 13:48.452 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 13:49.293 --> 13:51.615 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we can feel if it's genuine or not. 13:52.296 --> 13:53.316 [SPEAKER_02]: So here's the other great 14:00.105 --> 14:00.665 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't know. 14:00.685 --> 14:03.007 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think you're helping me in those moments? 14:03.848 --> 14:05.289 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to help you. 14:05.309 --> 14:07.091 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, get out of heaviness. 14:07.211 --> 14:08.452 [SPEAKER_00]: Like everything's okay. 14:08.472 --> 14:09.493 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's the summer. 14:09.573 --> 14:10.854 [SPEAKER_00]: Like we're good. 14:10.974 --> 14:12.295 [SPEAKER_00]: Trust that we're okay. 14:12.615 --> 14:18.160 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think though that that's like your inflection and tone when you're like, way you just set it? 14:18.548 --> 14:21.169 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, because I'm like, here we go again. 14:21.189 --> 14:24.590 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, he's getting heavy, it'll never change. 14:24.650 --> 14:26.131 [SPEAKER_00]: It's always gonna be this way. 14:26.951 --> 14:29.632 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll never be able to have just like a light playful tone. 14:29.832 --> 14:35.014 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it totally brings you back to the heaviness of our lives for a really long time. 14:35.234 --> 14:38.696 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think for me, it's a little bit different. 14:39.436 --> 14:43.358 [SPEAKER_02]: You are so like a tune to when I'm genuine and I'm not. 14:44.718 --> 15:00.135 [SPEAKER_02]: And for me I'm doing everything I can to act like I'm coming from a place of care, but there's an underlying frustration, judgment, and really I'm trying to change it. 15:00.736 --> 15:04.521 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that signals a lack of safety for you. 15:04.742 --> 15:15.096 [SPEAKER_02]: I've never thought about this before, that because I have a hard time honestly coming from a genuine place of I'm accepting you where you are and I'm just like trying to be curious and understand it. 15:16.517 --> 15:42.867 [SPEAKER_02]: Then that signals a lack of safety to you and I don't what happens for me is I try to be just like process And get you to open up and talk to me about it But what that leads to is you just kind of stating well This sucks about our life and this sucks about our life and and then I get like I lose it because I start to just go like oh It serves to feel so heavy that that I lose my care and I start to just want to go away 15:44.554 --> 15:44.774 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 15:45.515 --> 15:57.542 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and I think it also was attached to just, again, why we do a lot of attachment work with ourselves and with couples that we work with is like, for me, like, I wasn't allowed to have like anger. 15:57.562 --> 16:03.565 [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't allowed to express myself because it was not okay. 16:04.405 --> 16:09.028 [SPEAKER_00]: And I had to care to take other people to make sure, like, really bad things wouldn't happen. 16:09.869 --> 16:11.189 [SPEAKER_00]: And so now I'm like, well, I'm 50. 16:12.350 --> 16:14.851 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm a fucking a lot, I have fucking anger, man. 16:15.331 --> 16:15.991 [SPEAKER_02]: You say that. 16:16.311 --> 16:18.972 [SPEAKER_02]: I can be anger if I want to, and you're I can be negative if I want to. 16:18.992 --> 16:30.936 [SPEAKER_00]: So when you're trying to make it not like I can't be angry, it just reminds me of like the suppression I had to have for a really long time, even still with my family. 16:30.976 --> 16:33.696 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I hope you don't get triggered when you're home visiting. 16:33.736 --> 16:38.598 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, well, if I fucking do I do part of my friends, but I'm allowed to get fucking triggered. 16:39.398 --> 16:40.239 [SPEAKER_00]: part of my friend again. 16:41.239 --> 16:49.605 [SPEAKER_00]: But, um, and so it's like just that one person that we don't, like we want to just be organically ourselves with is still trying to change me. 16:49.625 --> 16:50.405 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that comes out. 16:50.445 --> 16:53.687 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I know for you, and this is just my story is like, right? 16:53.727 --> 16:57.030 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there were lots of unpredictable moods for you when you were younger. 16:57.110 --> 17:01.633 [SPEAKER_00]: So when you come into the kitchen and like an hour before I'm like, hey, how do you do you need anything from Whole Foods? 17:02.233 --> 17:05.274 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I come home and I'm like, oh, something happened. 17:05.654 --> 17:06.735 [SPEAKER_00]: It was unpredictable. 17:06.755 --> 17:08.435 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you go into your hole. 17:08.455 --> 17:18.519 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm intolerant of it because I've been around somebody my entire life who their mood state dictates, dictates everybody else's. 17:18.979 --> 17:21.600 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm so intolerant of it, you because I'm like, 17:22.500 --> 17:24.621 [SPEAKER_02]: and then I was having a freaking good day. 17:24.661 --> 17:26.702 [SPEAKER_02]: I think also like I don't have a lot of highs. 17:27.102 --> 17:33.545 [SPEAKER_02]: And so if I'm having like a great day and I'm like in a good place and then you're in a shit mood, I'm just like, come on. 17:33.565 --> 17:35.866 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I try to convince you like EJ this will pass. 17:35.947 --> 17:42.570 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I just got really nauseous at a whole foods and I came home and like can whip cream was ever, I don't even know what happened but like 17:43.270 --> 17:47.234 [SPEAKER_00]: that the dogs went through the trash, ate foil, I don't know, and then I get overwhelmed. 17:47.254 --> 17:49.976 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, and I convince you, like, it's going to pass. 17:50.016 --> 17:50.657 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll be fine. 17:50.697 --> 17:55.841 [SPEAKER_00]: I promise, like, in an hour, I'll be, like, totally myself again, but, and that just feels yucky. 17:56.202 --> 17:56.442 [SPEAKER_00]: So... 17:56.823 --> 18:09.179 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so central to this and this is like the, this is the question that we're asking ourselves and we want you to consider asking is instead of how do I get my partner out of this? 18:10.561 --> 18:14.826 [SPEAKER_02]: What does love look like when my partner is in it? 18:15.227 --> 18:15.507 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 18:16.365 --> 18:17.805 [SPEAKER_02]: because we know it's gonna pass. 18:17.845 --> 18:20.906 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, I come out of my dark places, right? 18:21.506 --> 18:22.667 [SPEAKER_02]: I get over my heaviness. 18:22.747 --> 18:30.128 [SPEAKER_02]: I know for sure you come out of, I mean, yes, there are times you can get really negative about our life, right? 18:30.448 --> 18:38.150 [SPEAKER_02]: But then also, like, I just saw you, like, so appreciative and excited about the fact that we just painted one room, right? 18:38.190 --> 18:40.011 [SPEAKER_02]: So I know you're gonna come out of it. 18:40.451 --> 18:43.851 [SPEAKER_02]: So how do I get out of wanting to change you 18:46.032 --> 18:46.232 [SPEAKER_02]: moments. 18:46.552 --> 18:47.472 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how do you. 18:48.853 --> 18:50.333 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's like again new for us. 18:50.693 --> 18:58.915 [SPEAKER_00]: I already know that I think the next time I feel that heaviness from you, I'm gonna first before I say anything. 18:59.515 --> 19:02.136 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna recognize the resentment because it will be there. 19:02.616 --> 19:09.218 [SPEAKER_00]: No matter what it will be there because heaviness, I'm like my whole life has been so heavy. 19:09.258 --> 19:14.819 [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't want it there anymore and I'm going to first work through that individually myself. 19:15.259 --> 19:16.520 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't quite know how yet. 19:16.580 --> 19:19.803 [SPEAKER_00]: I might journal, I might plug it into chat. 19:20.043 --> 19:21.204 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, here's what's happening. 19:21.865 --> 19:27.469 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm gonna understand that first before I move towards you. 19:27.489 --> 19:28.730 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm gonna see what that does. 19:28.810 --> 19:30.972 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, we can follow up on this in this podcast. 19:30.992 --> 19:37.558 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think for me, I'll like notice a resentment or that feeling of like egg shells like, oh my gosh, it's heavy. 19:38.018 --> 19:43.643 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm gonna start to recognize that the resentment piece, I think is the one that actually pops up unconsciously. 19:44.323 --> 19:46.625 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I go into my care-taking role. 19:46.645 --> 19:47.325 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not healthy. 19:47.365 --> 19:49.267 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm going to work on. 19:49.747 --> 19:56.072 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I'm going to work on recognizing first and naming that this is uncomfortable. 19:56.913 --> 20:04.419 [SPEAKER_02]: Like without labeling, adding a bunch of adjectives, assigning blame to you, I'm going to be like, one, I'm in discomfort. 20:04.999 --> 20:07.881 [SPEAKER_02]: And then the other, we just had somebody who like talked to us about this. 20:08.442 --> 20:09.603 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to move my body. 20:10.323 --> 20:11.463 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna like take a second. 20:11.563 --> 20:19.845 [SPEAKER_02]: I might have to walk out of the room second and because I think I freeze like I think Because it reminds me so much of my childhood of like somebody's in a bad mood. 20:19.885 --> 20:31.168 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like don't fricking move Don't move because they you might get their attention and it might come out towards you and then because I think I freeze like physically in my body 20:31.608 --> 20:33.109 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, capacity podcast, Missiles. 20:33.129 --> 20:33.990 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes. 20:34.491 --> 20:35.872 [SPEAKER_02]: We have an interview coming up with her. 20:35.892 --> 20:36.792 [SPEAKER_02]: She's awesome. 20:36.812 --> 20:47.541 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to recognize that my central nervous system is saying, I don't move because I think that will give me less resentment because I think I'm locked up when I'm talking to you. 20:47.561 --> 20:47.981 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 20:48.001 --> 20:58.729 [SPEAKER_02]: When I'm trying to show my love and care for you, I think I'm intellectually trying to do it, but I think my body is messaging to myself and you that I don't feel safe. 20:59.590 --> 21:06.393 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm gonna like try to like I'm gonna I'm gonna dance around the kitchen or something like I'm gonna do in front of me. 21:06.693 --> 21:15.557 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm not gonna like I'm not gonna freeze I'm not gonna let a part of me freeze or you notice the freeze and then you get out of it quicker. 21:15.757 --> 21:16.497 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yeah. 21:17.160 --> 21:27.246 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, okay, what we really want to differentiate here, I'm going to use my notes a little bit, is caretaking versus companionship. 21:27.386 --> 21:28.507 [SPEAKER_02]: I love that, right? 21:28.967 --> 21:33.470 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that when our partner is struggling, we want to be their companion. 21:33.610 --> 21:33.890 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 21:34.070 --> 21:39.674 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't want to be their caretaker that's managing their emotions to make us feel better. 21:40.594 --> 21:45.237 [SPEAKER_02]: Caretaking, let's name it, needs my partner to feel different, so I can relax. 21:46.458 --> 21:50.902 [SPEAKER_02]: caretaking starts by trying to change the other person. 21:51.483 --> 21:51.903 [SPEAKER_00]: Guilty. 21:52.303 --> 21:56.187 [SPEAKER_02]: Caretaking measures success by emotional improvement. 21:56.207 --> 21:59.490 [SPEAKER_02]: Like if you get happier, then I'm doing a good job. 21:59.510 --> 22:00.010 [SPEAKER_00]: Winning. 22:00.030 --> 22:00.091 [SPEAKER_00]: And 22:02.197 --> 22:08.338 [SPEAKER_02]: caretaking grows out of love, but it's driven by our own discomfort with what's going on. 22:08.498 --> 22:08.738 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 22:09.278 --> 22:20.241 [SPEAKER_02]: So those are the things we can nail down now, where we want to go and what I'm trying to be better for you and I think you're trying to be better for me is companionship, right? 22:20.821 --> 22:21.481 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 22:21.501 --> 22:25.882 [SPEAKER_02]: Like is beginning with understanding and really wanting to know. 22:26.422 --> 22:27.142 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know. 22:32.503 --> 22:53.277 [SPEAKER_00]: Might not feel okay right now and I want you to know that I'm okay with that if you need to talk I'm here, but I also want to be able to give you that space like really pure like Whatever you need space me even being in the same room like it's okay that I'm okay with your discomfort I can feel like it's uncomfortable 22:54.124 --> 22:58.285 [SPEAKER_02]: Companion ship is being present, but not fixing. 22:58.705 --> 22:59.106 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 22:59.686 --> 22:59.966 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 23:00.186 --> 23:01.426 [SPEAKER_02]: I can just be with you. 23:02.206 --> 23:03.947 [SPEAKER_02]: It's safe, like it's safe. 23:04.007 --> 23:07.768 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm literally, I am safe, even if you're in a ship mood. 23:08.088 --> 23:08.288 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 23:08.848 --> 23:09.389 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm safe. 23:10.109 --> 23:10.469 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you are. 23:10.749 --> 23:13.250 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have to change it for me to be safe. 23:13.630 --> 23:13.830 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 23:14.090 --> 23:15.893 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, and that's all central nervous system. 23:15.933 --> 23:16.194 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 23:16.214 --> 23:17.436 [SPEAKER_02]: That's because I know I'm safe. 23:17.496 --> 23:25.029 [SPEAKER_02]: I know you're not going to like attack me, but my central nervous system is saying, if you're in a bad mood, it's not safe. 23:25.607 --> 23:27.688 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, or I have to get you out of it. 23:27.708 --> 23:27.928 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 23:28.808 --> 23:39.954 [SPEAKER_02]: And then the last thing about companionship is it trusts in this idea that emotional safety allows for the other person's growth. 23:40.554 --> 23:41.214 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love that. 23:41.274 --> 23:53.520 [SPEAKER_02]: That if you, if you can create a sense of okayness for yourself and okayness for your partner, that that might lead them to actually understand whatever they're going through better. 23:54.160 --> 24:05.047 [SPEAKER_02]: that if I'm feeling heavy and it's okay with you and you're curious about it, I might them be able to be like, what is like, why am I so heavy? 24:05.428 --> 24:05.688 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 24:06.168 --> 24:07.349 [SPEAKER_02]: And let me let you in on that. 24:08.049 --> 24:09.490 [SPEAKER_02]: And then that's intimate connection. 24:09.570 --> 24:19.037 [SPEAKER_00]: First is, can I say like a lot of people, a lot of clients I've worked with couples, like if they notice their partners heavy, they just don't say anything because they don't 24:21.198 --> 24:32.361 [SPEAKER_00]: And then just kind of goes under their rug and so that's not even talked about and so it's like it creates this like unconscious pattern of like Oh, don't want to say anything because they're heavy. 24:32.861 --> 24:36.842 [SPEAKER_00]: Let this pass, but that totally stuns growth For the other person. 24:36.902 --> 24:37.282 [SPEAKER_00]: I get it. 24:37.322 --> 24:39.843 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really scary like you don't want to what's it? 24:39.903 --> 24:43.244 [SPEAKER_00]: Ruffle the feathers, but if you don't waffle the feathers 24:44.284 --> 24:49.967 [SPEAKER_00]: like the eggshells will continue and we don't ever want to have to be on eggshells like that feels awful. 24:50.247 --> 24:52.089 [SPEAKER_00]: I was on those enough when I was little man. 24:52.809 --> 24:55.651 [SPEAKER_00]: Shoeshoe eggshells are ready for like some slip inside. 24:57.231 --> 25:06.977 [SPEAKER_02]: So the closing question we have for you to walk away from this and for you and your partner to talk about in moments that the other person is struggling. 25:07.457 --> 25:07.998 [SPEAKER_00]: What happens? 25:12.543 --> 25:28.465 [SPEAKER_00]: And I would say to have this conversation like when things are neutral and not when they're in a dark place like when you're like right like today if you're like I'm driving and I'm listening to this or watching this on YouTube, whatever it is, it's like I'm going to talk to my partner about what happens when their mood shifts. 25:29.086 --> 25:33.129 [SPEAKER_00]: What happens for me and are we doing this like caretaking thing? 25:33.189 --> 25:34.370 [SPEAKER_00]: Do we sweep it under the rug? 25:34.390 --> 25:45.318 [SPEAKER_00]: Do we just wait like really get curious and really understand like how can we support each other in healthier ways if there are some couples that are great and support each other on the other persons in 25:46.138 --> 26:08.427 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, funky moods or whatever, but there's a lot of people that don't and so just like being curious and like ways Just kind of like we just modeled that today like I'm going to Recognize that there's resentment which I didn't realize I thought it was just frustrated It's resentment and EJ is going to work on not freezing and he's gonna move his body So we just learn that today. 26:08.507 --> 26:08.827 [SPEAKER_00]: So like 26:09.287 --> 26:20.035 [SPEAKER_00]: something that you can individually do so that you can shift to more emotional safety in moments where your partner's mood might not be soothing yours, but that's okay. 26:21.265 --> 26:23.988 [SPEAKER_02]: And as always, we are on this road with you. 26:24.048 --> 26:25.949 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what we love about this space. 26:25.969 --> 26:27.631 [SPEAKER_02]: We love about our community. 26:27.851 --> 26:34.337 [SPEAKER_02]: Is we are all people together on this road to grow as humans, to have a better relationship. 26:34.457 --> 26:39.162 [SPEAKER_02]: Tarrin, I have things that are evolving between you and I. 26:39.202 --> 26:42.024 [SPEAKER_02]: But there's just ups and downs, every day. 26:42.304 --> 26:42.745 [SPEAKER_00]: Right now. 26:42.965 --> 26:45.808 [SPEAKER_02]: Every day, every day, it is crazy. 26:45.948 --> 26:46.288 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 26:46.628 --> 26:47.089 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah. 26:47.389 --> 26:53.891 [SPEAKER_00]: but we keep doing our work and just grateful for our audience, so thank you. 26:53.912 --> 27:01.334 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, give us a follow, tell us somebody you care about about our show, it means a lot to us. 27:01.754 --> 27:02.055 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 27:02.235 --> 27:07.757 [SPEAKER_00]: As always, thanks so much for listening, take care of yourself, take care of each other, especially in those difficult moments. 27:07.777 --> 27:08.237 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye-bye. 27:08.317 --> 27:08.617 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye-bye. 27:10.817 --> 27:20.232 [SPEAKER_01]: me and you just sing and I'm a train, me and you listening to the rain, me and you we are the same, me and you have