[SPEAKER_00]: This is juggle podcast for 5.49 with echo channels in me juggle will like good evening echo.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did evening Judgment This is something that I I talked about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We just got done with a monster for echelon front and I I talked about judgment and I think it's worth going into some detail and sharing a little bit more broadly with people
[SPEAKER_00]: So, this dates back to a conversation I had with Jimmy May, who's been on this podcast before.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was a seal, he was retired now, he was a seal officer, and he was, I figured what his actual position was at Buds, but he was a Buds, he was overseeing some portion of Buds.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a Buds, of course, are always trying to figure out who's going to make it through,
[SPEAKER_00]: And they be doing this for years, psychological testing, personality traits, physical tests, obviously they do physical tests, but the physical tests.
[SPEAKER_00]: to aren't an exact translation like just because someone's really good at running or pull-ups or whatever doesn't mean they're going to pass.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just because someone you know was has broke out some way in a psychological profile doesn't mean they're going to pass and they've always been trying to tell.
[SPEAKER_00]: Trying to figure out who's going to make it through just like any other corporation because if you have to recruit.
[SPEAKER_00]: A hundred people and bring them into your system and pay them and you only get twenty people that make it, which is the way it works.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not good, it's not cost effective so they don't like doing that so they want to figure out who's going to make it through so they do all these tests and they never really find out much
[SPEAKER_00]: They never really find out much.
[SPEAKER_00]: At one point, they said that wrestlers had a better chance of making it through, but by better chance, it was like barely, it's like a statistically irrelevant and same thing I heard people from New England if they made it through more often.
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, it was like a single digit higher percentage of making it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're not really doing a great job.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really hard to tell who's going to make it through.
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that he told me about was this psychological aspect that did, again, show a very slight indication.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because trust me, just because you're a wrestler, don't make it, do it at me, you're making it through.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just because you're from New England, don't make it, you're making it through.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's been plenty of wrestlers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want wrestlers?
[SPEAKER_00]: from wrestling states, that quit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So is there maybe a slightly better chance?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: New England, okay, because you're used to the cold or whatever, okay, a slightly better chance, but again, it's it's like almost statistically irrelevant.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this one, again, same thing, it's not a huge, not a huge impact.
[SPEAKER_00]: But
[SPEAKER_00]: The way he explained it to me is how you see yourself versus how other people see you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the way the closer you see yourself to the way everyone else sees you, the better chance that you have of making it through.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they got this from, and again, don't quote me on this, but they did some kind of survey and then peer review.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you did a self-assessment.
[SPEAKER_00]: of how you viewed yourself in these various categories and then you got the class said how they viewed you on these certain categories.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the closer that things lined up, the better chance that someone had of making it through, but basic skill training.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, if you see yourself as a stud and the class sees you as a stud and again I'm simplifying this.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you see yourself as a stud
[SPEAKER_00]: you have an improved chance.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm only saying improved.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not you're going to make it, but you have an improved chance.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interestingly, if you see yourself as weak and the classies you as weak, you have an improved chance.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it would be, if you saw yourself as weak, what are you going to do?
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to work hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: The class to use you as weak.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're weak.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to work harder.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to put out.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to try and get better.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to stay focused.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: That makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're a stud, the classies you as a stud, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I train hard to get here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm ready to rock and roll.
[SPEAKER_00]: The class is looking at you like, oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: This kids break rock and roll.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now if you see yourself as a stud, and the class sees you as weak, you have a diminished chance to make it through again, can you still make it through sure?
[SPEAKER_00]: But at diminished chance, and you could see how that would work, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I see myself as being like, oh, I'm ready to kick this training in the ass.
[SPEAKER_00]: And everyone else is looking at your gone, oh, I don't really think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a delta, obviously, that you have a diminished chance of making it through.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or, for instance, you don't see yourself as a stud, but you still see yourself as weak.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the class thinks you're a stud.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, guess what?
[SPEAKER_00]: diminished the chance, because even if you are a stud, which it sounds like your peers are thinking you're a stud, they're thinking you're a stud, because you're doing awesome on the runs, you're getting through the O-course, you're doing a good job.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're doing a realistic assessment of you, but your self-assessment is that your weak.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you think in that?
[SPEAKER_00]: And you have a diminished chance of making it through.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can certainly cite examples like that that I knew, you know, how to
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a guy that I thought was a stud.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, you know, I'm young.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so anyone that was like 24, 25, 26 years old, like they're just more developed.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're more mature.
[SPEAKER_00]: Physically developed, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Physically developed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had a guy that was physically developed, looked like a stud, bruh, he quit.
[SPEAKER_00]: The first or second night of hell week.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was a little bit of a shocker to the class.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh damn, that dude just quit.
[SPEAKER_00]: and everyone thought he was a stud, clearly he didn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then of course there was people that you could tell they didn't have confidence, like they thought they were weak.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we all thought they were weak, but dude, they were still there at the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hell, we kill like them, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it goes both directions.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it does make sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: What it indicates is that you don't have very good self-awareness.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't have really good self-awareness, that's gonna be problematic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always thought, and I remembered hearing some of this at the mustard, and I'm trying to figure out, I wonder why that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And all of it made sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was kind of going to the land, except for the one that I was trying to kind of square the circle where if you think you're a stud, but other people don't, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: unless there's some behavioral thing that you're putting out that people are just rejecting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if you're if you think you're weak and everyone else thinks you're weak, your expectations and their expectations kind of line up, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you like if you're whether you be putting out or whatever, but you're kind of like behind, no one's going to like be mad at you, no one's going to lash out at you, whatever, they're just kind of like okay,
[SPEAKER_01]: he's trying but hey man you know our expectations are at that high and your expectations are at that high so you know basically what you're putting out you're kind of getting back so it's kind of confirming and hey one foot in front of the other it's going to end at some point you know kind of a thing and we're all good you know like the you know if you're
[SPEAKER_01]: if you're running a race someone's gonna come in last we all know that you know so it's like one of those deals um and then if uh if you're a stud and they think you're a stud you're behaving accordingly as well you know so what you're putting out you're getting back same thing someone's gonna come in first like no one's mad at this guy bragging for coming in first he's not bragging but no one's you know like his performance is not intimidating because we expect that out of you know kind of a thing
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and then the discrepancy part, of course, that makes sense, you know, if you're weak but you think you're a stud, you're behaving like us in whatever way, you know, if that's coming out overtly, even in a small way and it's like what's this guy even opening his mouth for, you know, like, so that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you think you're weak, but you really are a stud, of course, expectations don't match up, but I wonder how that, it's hard to imagine how that looks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, because now when it comes to do something hard, you think you're weak and you don't have the ability to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, so the extra, it was like, oh, but I thought you'd kill that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what do you slack in?
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you like?
[SPEAKER_01]: What you're not done with the sauce?
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't, I can't take anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you think you're weak, then you can't take anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would go so far as to hypothesize that the class generally speaking is probably going to have a pretty good
[SPEAKER_00]: a pretty good reflective of reality.
[SPEAKER_00]: A pretty good assessment, reflective of reality.
[SPEAKER_00]: So sure, there might be some guy that's like, you know, he doesn't look like much, but he was a, you know, he was a 142 pound wrestler and went to state in California and he served.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can't really tell by looking at him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's kind of quiet.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you be like, oh, that guy seems a little bit weak, but even even that guy, like as the class is doing things,
[SPEAKER_00]: Runs, he's doing good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Swims, he's doing good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like so, so that's why I think that class is going to have a Fairly accurate assessment of reality.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this person really a stud or a dud?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll have a pretty good assessment of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you go in there believing That's your a dud.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like just like in sports when someone They don't believe they can win.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't believe you can win and when people do believe they can win
[SPEAKER_00]: That has such a huge impact or just think about what it does to your confidence in the moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a game changer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're acclaimed in that right there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just really clarify the whole thing because I remember one time when I was at University of Hawaii every Monday we'd have conditioning and the conditioning was part of it was 110's right 110 yard Sprints and we do 16 110 yard sprints.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's across the whole football field and one in so
[SPEAKER_00]: So would you just sprint the tent and then go walk back to it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, basically, it goes like this, a whole football field, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We all line up and there's three groups.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's skilled position, which is why you see here's running back defensive back, like the faster guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's like linebackers, and I want to say maybe kickers, maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're back for get the exact group, but it was that middle group who weren't as fast, but then there's the line man, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They're third.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they beat the heavy hitters.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, you know, it just be real repetitive.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'd be like, hand on the line, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: First group.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the whistle you run at a certain point.
[SPEAKER_01]: They say, handle the line for the next group.
[SPEAKER_01]: So by the time the third group gets there, brother, first group is ready to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was very little rest in between.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just the most, it was all, it was a mental thing more than even physical.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we do eight rest for like two minutes, I think something like this, and then do another eight.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so, and I,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just trying to, I'm sorry, apologize for going in the weeds like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you literally go from the, the, the, the end zone and then you do the, like, to the 10 and then to the 20 and then to the.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, that was different.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was actually on Tuesday.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was, they're called ladders.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, on Monday was way more of a freaking gut check because it's like, you start in the back of the end zone and you sprint all the way to the far side goal line.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you run across the whole field.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hundred ten meters sprint.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so you do either those rest eight.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought you meant a hundred Ten meters sprint.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so, yeah, at about 12, you're like, bro, I don't think I can do this every single week.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm thinking.
[SPEAKER_01]: You get through it and at the end, it's, you know, and I was like, I guess kind of one of the faster guys or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can kind of gauge where like one time for some reason I was gasing and everyone was just like beating me.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was only one time that I can ever remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the rest was just right with everybody else.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this all-why do you seem to be just running back and D.B.
[SPEAKER_01]: is all the fast guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was just right with everyone else.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I remember thinking,
[SPEAKER_01]: Almost every week like looking around and to everyone's like locked in and just doing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, bro, I'm dying.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I can even do one more and then I do one more and then you're like, okay, that was probably my last one that I could really do functioning.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I could walk it, but of course, but you end up getting through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all mental.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so physically you end up getting through.
[SPEAKER_01]: But my mind was like, I can't do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm looking around at everyone else and their faces just like regular.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they, it seemed a lot harder for me than it was for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then if you talk to like, you know, okay cool Jeremy these guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like no, no, that was the worst So you just never know you know, it's kind of like oh, you think you were outwardly showing it more than they were I have no idea Oh, no, I don't think so because I would never do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would never be like oh, yeah I'm sorry, so as much as they're dying inside they're looking at you going man.
[SPEAKER_00]: I call looks like he's all right probably Yeah, and so imagine this now imagine it's hell weak.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying and if you're dying inside you're trying not to show it But you're thinking wait.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's only Monday night
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, these guys are not even phased and everyone else is trying to do the same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're doing, which is not show it, and so you end up going, you know, I'm weak, and I, there's I can't do this exactly right then you know what you're done.
[SPEAKER_01]: I understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it makes sense to me, and when I heard this, when I heard Jimmy explain this to me, it made sense to me that this would be,
[SPEAKER_00]: a problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: How you perceive yourself versus how others see you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I started thinking about it from a leadership perspective, I see a very similar problem, a very similar problem at a very similar pattern.
[SPEAKER_00]: When people have a significant delta between how they perceive
[SPEAKER_00]: It can be, it can cause problems in leadership.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can cause problems not just in leadership, in human interaction.
[SPEAKER_00]: How you perceive yourself versus how other people perceive you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you don't need to, and here's the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: In this case, in the bud's case, they do like a self-assessment.
[SPEAKER_00]: They do a 360 degree survey and whatever, peer evaluations and all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's how they're judging themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how they are being judged by others.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you don't need that.
[SPEAKER_00]: in real life because this is the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Judgment is taking place all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is always judging.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are both judging other people and we are being judged all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as I think about my personal experience in the SEAL teams, when I was a junior guy, I
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, I was always judging my leaders for sure, for sure, you know, they show up five minutes late for something, noted they forget a piece of gear, noted they mess up during an immediate action drill, noted that comes always judging and when I was in a leadership position.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was, you straight up, I was going to say, say, like, well, it wasn't really judging.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you're judging, you're judging, you're, so I was judging my subordinates, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, are they going to momentarily make the right call?
[SPEAKER_00]: How good are they at this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they ready?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do they care more about themselves?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or do they care about the teams?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do they care more about the mission?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm judging them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm watching, literally I've told stories I'm like standing over Sesto and shoulder like watching him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm completely judging.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the thing, as a leader, we need to make sure that the way we judge ourselves is approximate to the way other people judge us.
[SPEAKER_00]: The way we see ourselves is at least somewhat approximate to the way other people see us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I think where this boils down to,
[SPEAKER_00]: and I don't know another way to describe this because this is a word that I think is, there's a different ways to take this word, but I can't really think of a better word to use.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a matter of respect.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a matter of respect.
[SPEAKER_00]: The definition of respect is valuing someone else's abilities or their achievements or their opinions or their rights or their ideas.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what respect is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I value your idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: That means I respect you or I value the right that you have.
[SPEAKER_00]: That means I respect you or I value what you've done.
[SPEAKER_00]: What you've achieved.
[SPEAKER_00]: That means I respect those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that means that you understand someone.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, I see what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we judge things about a person in a positive way,
[SPEAKER_00]: our respect for them goes up the way we value them goes up when we judge things about a person and we judge them negatively our respect for them goes down so we value them less we value their opinions less we value their achievements less we value their rights left less and these are very important we and we need to be we need to be self aware
[SPEAKER_00]: and make sure that our perception of ourselves, and how we're being judged, is close to other people's perception of us as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then the big question becomes, how are you being judged, what are you being judged on?
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is tricky because this can vary.
[SPEAKER_00]: At least parts of this can vary a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think you have to start off by thinking a little bit about the ecosystem that you're in as far as how you're being judged.
[SPEAKER_00]: So at the master I mentioned, bikers, boys, gouts, bankers, and boulders.
[SPEAKER_00]: I used a little alliteration there to talk through these things,
[SPEAKER_00]: any those those systems or those those ecosystems right bikers boy scouts bankers and boulders what does that look like if you are if you're in a biker if you're in a biker game right you're in a motorcycle club what are you getting judged on well what's your commitment to the club right loyalty what is your loyalty to the club
[SPEAKER_00]: you're being judged on silence, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: No rats, if you're rat, you're completely rejected.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a hierarchy within motorcycle clubs, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's, they have a chain of command and they respect that and that's the way it goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they have their respect for, you know, the patches and the cuts and the colors and all those kind of things and those symbols have a lot of meaning.
[SPEAKER_00]: But part of being a bike right is just like how tough are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: How tough are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you drink hard?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you fight?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or are you strong?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you have military service?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you have combat experience?
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you been to prison?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like those are going to things like, no, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to get judged on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Compare that to the Boy Scouts.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the Boy Scouts getting judged on?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's Scott Law has 12 points, and not to go through every detail, but the Boy Scout is getting judged on trustworthy, this loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, reverent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, these are the things that they're getting judged on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, bankers.
[SPEAKER_00]: bankers.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have, there's like a, um, I found a various codes, but from the banking world that they're supposed to live by acting with integrity, acting with due skill, uh, diligence being open cooperative with regulators.
[SPEAKER_00]: They do regard to the interest of customers and treating them fairly observing standards of market conduct at all time, being alert to conflict of interest, treating
[SPEAKER_00]: And let's face it, also, if you're a banker, you're getting judged on putting together good deals, making money.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a good example of if you're a banker, if we were bankers.
[SPEAKER_00]: If we were bankers and you found out that I went to prison, would you respect for me go up or down?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: If we were bikers and you found out that I did time, would you respect for me go up or down?
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the ecosystems can differ in how people are being judged inside those ecosystems.
[SPEAKER_00]: and ecosystems do have their own way of judging and there's going to be some overlap, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's some, and you gotta remember, there's two like there's some ecosystems.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is why I have to talk about bowling because there's some ecosystems where outside that ecosystem, no one cares, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, have you ever had somebody, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: You got in a verbal argument with someone and they're like what you're best bowling score like you know Like no one says that right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not that's not a thing They don't cares now in the bowling world if you competed in something or you won something You know, you could flex with that in that ecosystem outside that ecosystem Doesn't hold much water some people kind of laugh at it as a matter of fact
[SPEAKER_00]: right, depending on, you know, I bet the biker would laugh at the bowler if he was trying to flex his tournament results.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: And the funny thing is that you and our talk about this last time is like grown people or people that aren't inside the digital ecosystem, they just think we do karate.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just think we do karate like a like a nine-year-old.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: like getting high on breaking boards.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what they think of.
[SPEAKER_00]: You say, oh, yeah, what do you do for fun?
[SPEAKER_00]: I do do do do do do do do do do do do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in their mind, they're like, see you like Rex Cuando, you know, breaking a board.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they don't care outside that ecosystem.
[SPEAKER_00]: But inside that ecosystem, there's all kinds of credibility or lack of credibility and judgment that happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: And respect they goes up or down depending on what you've achieved inside that ecosystem.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you get very specific ecosystems, there's little ancillary things that you will definitely get judged on, like skills, like in the SEAL teams.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the SEAL teams, if you're a really good shooter, like people kind of know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: For someone that's really good at skydiving.
[SPEAKER_00]: People kind of know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: People that are really good at rocking, just any one of those things, those skills will elevate you,
[SPEAKER_00]: Respect for you in at some level if you're a terrible shot people kind of know that to If you if you fall out of a rock march like people will know that don't remember that these little things As a biker like when bikers have when they know about bikes when they can fix motorcycles when they build motorcycles that's elevation The boy scouts like what not to you know what what merit badges do you have like those are things that are going to help you So generally in your particular in a particular domain
[SPEAKER_00]: your skill level, your experience level, your accomplishments, your qualifications, your accolades, your historical success, all of these things elevate people's respect for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: On some level, now listen, you can be a world champion in some sport and be a dirtbag for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can have graduated with the highest honors from some university and be a dirtbag.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can still be judged in a negative way, but they are generally speaking, these skills in a particular domain, they will elevate you, they will at least give you the opportunity.
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll give you positive upmarks on the respect level.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you've got to remember that you're being judged on those things inside your ecosystem that you're in.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there are some things that are almost universally respected values.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, I have to say almost universally because there's certain cultures and ecosystems where this stuff isn't respected, but.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you display these types of things, generally speaking, they will earn you respect.
[SPEAKER_00]: So integrity, we need you to say what you do and you do what you say.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a great way to earn respect.
[SPEAKER_00]: The opposite of that being a hypocrite, which is a super derogatory.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that guy's a hypocrite, right, honesty being honest.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why you know, calling someone a liar is such a offensive word because people really value honesty.
[SPEAKER_00]: humility.
[SPEAKER_00]: Being humble.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a quality that people generally respect and listen.
[SPEAKER_00]: What does it mean when an athlete is confident to the point that they're arrogant, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes that gets people hyped up, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You get some fighters that are their super arrogant.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you look at the broad, the broad canon of people that are athletes, the humble ones,
[SPEAKER_00]: are the most respected.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, look, can you get a Muhammad Ali when he's back in the day, just talking magic?
[SPEAKER_00]: Shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, no humility whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I found this to be why that works sometimes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why that works sometimes is because that person, those people that seem arrogant, what they do is they go out and they bully the bullies.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you bully the bullies, you can get away with it, because other people, you're projecting or you're living vicariously through that Muhammad Ali, when he goes out and bullies the bully, he goes out and beats George for him in a big monster of a guy that's knocking everyone out, like, people go, who's this arrogant?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I root for that guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to be bullying bullies in order to get away with that, but most of the time in sports You get here post a post game interview and someone says hey, you know, they say oh you scored the winning touchdown He says you know what I wouldn't be able to do without the team everyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, and they retweet it They share with me or they go You know, I can't believe the defense let us down like that and everyone goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, this guy needs to learn some ownership So this is relatively universal to earn respect as be humble
[SPEAKER_01]: What, um, this might be a whole another thing, but I've always thought that you can violate all these kind of rules for lack of a term if it's entertaining, especially in the sports and the entertainment kind of world.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like Muhammad Ali, Connor McGregor, like these kind of guys were overtly arrogant, um, as long as they say something funny or
[SPEAKER_01]: witty or entertaining at the end of the day combined with their performance not because that's all part of the entertainment formula it's we accept it because we like to be entertained but that's I always thought that that was the one way to sidestep these these sort of guidelines.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to be you have to be
[SPEAKER_00]: Beating up a bully.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you look at if you look at like W.W. F The person that plays a heel right the bad guy That's what that they're set up that way and only win a bigger bully comes along Does stone cold Steve Austin become the hero for beating up the bigger bullies?
[SPEAKER_00]: And like the rock, you know, back to the he was super arrogant.
[SPEAKER_00]: All these guys a lot will not all of them, but some of them, they flipped the script Where they're the bad guy until a better guy comes along and then they become the hero because they're they're arrogance.
[SPEAKER_00]: They beat up the bully.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, this isn't like, um, I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some level of entertainment, people want to see that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, also, also people want to see, you know, that guy get knocked out too, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you'll hear someone say, hey, love be your hate me.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're watching the fight.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that brings it out too.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Jen, why do people hate him?
[SPEAKER_00]: People hate him because they're arrogant.
[SPEAKER_00]: People either can't wait to see that guy get knocked out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: pretty universally respected trait.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, there's outliers for all these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another one, family and relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when someone has a good family, you know, they stick together with their family, they've got a strong family, all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: People respect that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or they've got a great friend group and you see that group and it's like, oh yeah, that's strong.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's positive.
[SPEAKER_00]: a kind of universally respected discipline, kind of universally respected.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the way, when I think about this one, when you're up early in the morning for whatever reason, let's say you got to go to the airport and you're driving to the airport at five o'clock in the morning and as you're driving to the airport, you see someone out on a run.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're at five in the morning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, you just said hell yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause we all go.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, or you see someone in some situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's late at night.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're coming home late for whatever reason And you got somebody out there with the little headlamp on putting in road work Don't you respect that person yeah early in the morning you seem doing something discipline is kind of a universally Respected trait Another one is reliability You know can you rely on that person everyone?
[SPEAKER_00]: No one likes when someone's not reliable.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually terrible
[SPEAKER_00]: Perseverance, when you see another thing I mentioned at the monster, they make movies about all this stuff, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They make movies about all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: They make movies about discipline.
[SPEAKER_00]: They make movies about family and relationship and sticking together.
[SPEAKER_00]: They make movies about humility, Rudy, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They make movies about honesty and integrity and what that looks like.
[SPEAKER_00]: We make movies about this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: We make movies about Perseverance because it's universally respected that guy got beat down.
[SPEAKER_00]: He got back up again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Courage, we obviously make movies about courage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gonna make things happen, self-control.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that fall under discipline?
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, but we make movies about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Seams in movies, where people have to show that, that self-control.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like all those revenge movies, there's usually sort of self-control scene, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where they wanna do something, but they know if they do it too early, they'll get found out or whatever, just have to just bite their teeth and just carry on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, fully.
[SPEAKER_00]: Accumulation of resources.
[SPEAKER_00]: do we respect that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, generally speaking, yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, it can you become a order where people now hate you because you're a trillion-air?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, that can happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: But generally speaking, we meet someone they've got a lot of accumulated in a lot of resources.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a level of respect that goes there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then we get into physical health and fitness.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are just
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of universally respected when someone is healthy it's universally respected when someone is strong to universally respected it's just the way it is that's a good reason to be in good shape universally respected another one creativity
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll say two types of creativity.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of them is kind of what you think of when you think of creativity, artistic creativity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone that's really good at guitar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone that's really good at drawing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone that's really good at painting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone that's really good at making videos.
[SPEAKER_00]: You okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: You go throw that in there for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, throw that in there for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Throw the dog above.
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone that's really good at making videos.
[SPEAKER_00]: They get respect for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: How many times is someone said come up to you and said, you know that video you made props, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a real thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really respect that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But creativity, so creativity is respected, and also artistic, but as well as problem solving, some of that can kind of creatively come up with ways to solve problems.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's respected, universally respected.
[SPEAKER_00]: humor.
[SPEAKER_00]: That guy's funny, she cracks me up, universally respected, so I can bring some humor into a situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another one, judgment, how good is someone's judgment?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're talking about judgment, but when someone makes good judgment in decisions, decides to do things a certain way, this falls into leadership as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there are people that when they step up and start to lead, they do a good job, people respect that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kindness, some of it's kind.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's, yeah, I talked about movies, people we make movies about this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a whole category out, there's a whole algorithmic category for each one of these things as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, you can watch a four minute clip from some movie or some, you know, event that happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, fully.
[SPEAKER_00]: But whenever I hear kindness,
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of algorithmic clips, you know, someone like rescues the dog, revives the dog, they help the the the the chickety in a nest and they bring it, they feed it with a little tiered or an eye dropper.
[SPEAKER_00]: They give it milk or whatever, you know, I mean, it's kindness because people respect that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then another one I would say is people that understand other people's perspective.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are, this is a respect to think.
[SPEAKER_00]: So these are kind of just some universally respected characteristics or values.
[SPEAKER_00]: And listen, are there exceptions, of course?
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially in fringe elements.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you getting into some fringe element?
[SPEAKER_00]: Some cult or some criminal organization.
[SPEAKER_00]: They might not view some of these universal traits as good.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, they might value some opposing traits.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, a kindness, maybe they respect brutality.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right if you're gang member and you go, oh, they crossed me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to go cut their limbs off or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like
[SPEAKER_00]: But even then I'd say, even even fringe elements, you know, they respect this kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have their own code and what is important reliability is important, integrity is important.
[SPEAKER_00]: Being honest is important, unless you're talking to the cops, but being honest with each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: So these things are used universally.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think that now we're looking at, you know, so this is the way we're being judged, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You're getting judged, what are your skills?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are your characteristics from this universal?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the characteristics from your ecosystem?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the skills that you have in your particular little domain?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is how you're being judged.
[SPEAKER_00]: So universal skills, your particular domain, and inside your ecosystem.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how you're being judged, and it is important that you pay attention to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how does this connect back to leadership?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the fact that since we're all judging each other and as we judge each other,
[SPEAKER_00]: we place ourselves and each other into a hierarchy.
[SPEAKER_00]: We place ourselves at each other into a packing order based on these characteristics.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this hierarchy,
[SPEAKER_00]: exists in all different teams, all different organizations.
[SPEAKER_00]: I call it, I don't, I'm not sure this is the best name, but I call it the primal order, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like a primal order.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's probably a little bit leaning too much into the animal side of it, but
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it's called right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll call it the primal order.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not based on the rank or the corporate assignment or the line diagram that spells out who's in charge of who.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is beneath the surface of that organizational chart that's up on the wall in the company, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think of what it's based on.
[SPEAKER_00]: is respect, true respect, and what the respect is based on how we judge each other based on these various judging criteria.
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's where this can get a little bit sketchy.
[SPEAKER_00]: As you might imagine, it looks a little bit different for each person.
[SPEAKER_00]: And another important thing to note is that when we judge each other, everyone judges other people against themselves, they hold themselves as the standard and they're looking at other people and judging this person's either above me or below me in the primal order.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, when you meet someone, it's funny, we don't talk about like when you meet another person, when you start your Jitsu, after a little while, everyone you meet, you're like judging if you could beat them in Jitsu or not, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I could take that all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, did you wrestle?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, you know, you're constantly figuring out, why don't I want to take that guy in Jitsu?
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a reality to that that we do, we size each other up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we place ourselves in this hierarchy, in this primal order.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we do this consciously or unconsciously.
[SPEAKER_00]: But unconsciously or consciously, we place other people either above us, equal to us or below us in that hierarchy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is where, to tie back the way we started this whole topic off, this is where things become critical because what is the difference between where you see yourself and where you see others and specifically another person in that pecking order and if it's not accurate, if it's not reflective, then that's where we can see some significant problems.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they see you as a superior, but you see them as a subordinate, let's say let's say you need me.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I see you as a superior, but you see me as a subordinate.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's actually going to be okay, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I see you as a spirit and you see me as a subordinate, then I look at you like, okay, I close the boss.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: You look at me like, okay, Jocco's works for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the way I treat you is, you know, I treat you with a little bit of reverence and respect because I see you as the boss and you treat me a little bit, you can kind of step on me, living and cut me off, it's okay, because you know, you're the boss.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're actually, that's going to work out, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you cut me off when I'm talking and I'm like, hey, you know, he's the boss.
[SPEAKER_00]: That'll work out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're in the clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you see me as a peer and I see you as a peer, that's okay, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we treat each other, you know, you treat me as a peer.
[SPEAKER_00]: I listen, what you have to say, you cut me off, but you know, I'll jump back back in there and we'll be okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: When we see each other as peers, we'll be okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then if I see you as a subordinate,
[SPEAKER_00]: and you see me as a superior, again, in the workout.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: I see you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, that could work for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's where you're at.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all those ones are fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: All those things work out, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the way we treat each other again, consciously or unconsciously, you know, you're going to a room with someone that you, I mean, just imagine this.
[SPEAKER_00]: You go into a room and there's someone that you highly respect.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're talking, are you going to cut them off, you know, of course not, but if there's someone in there that you're like, oh, this person is, if you don't respect them, but you cut them off when they're talking, it's more likely, more likely for sure, if they're peer, if they, if you view them as a peer, you'll kind of keep it in between.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all those things kind of line up and we'll be okay, we'll be okay in those scenarios.
[SPEAKER_00]: But check this out.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they see you as a peer, and you see them as a subordinate, so they see you like, oh, we're bros, but you see them as like, oh, you work for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now again, unconsciously, or consciously, how do you talk to them?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you listen to them?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you treat them with respect?
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a problem because you don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see them as a peer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, they see you as a peer, but you see them as a support.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's when you start talking to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, hey, maybe later, let me push through this.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a huge deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they see you as a supportant and you see them as a peer, it's a problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see them like, oh, that goes on my level, but you see me as like, I'm below your level.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I'm like, hey, I don't think we should do it that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, I'll, I'll, I'll ask you what I need your opinion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's another one that is a problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see me as a subordinate, and I see you as a subordinate.
[SPEAKER_00]: We both think each other are subordinate.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, this isn't to have enough, enough to do it with the line diagram.
[SPEAKER_00]: Has nothing to do with, I'm the CEO and you're the CEO.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it doesn't have anything to do with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has to do with how you truly feel.
[SPEAKER_00]: which, again, you may or may not be in touch with.
[SPEAKER_00]: It may be some subconscious idea that you have when you talk to me and you're like, can't believe this guy's in touch, but you couldn't even verbalize those words, but it's there, and I'm gonna feel it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you me as a sport and I you view, you as a sport and this is gonna be a problem, because we're both gonna treat each other, we're both gonna disrespect each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can even in a minor way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the problems here is that, you know, you've heard me say intent has a smell.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna smell it.
[SPEAKER_00]: When I treat you with that little bit of, whatever, I scoff you off just a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna feel that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I cut you off when you're talking.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get done presenting your idea and I immediately just, I'll think exactly, I'll end up with a boom, like we carry on with what I wanna do.
[SPEAKER_01]: yet even if you're a kind of imagining this old and imagining real scenarios by the way, but even if you're polite, even if both people are polite, it's still you can still feel it because and I think it comes down to telling people what to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's like a huge part of right because that's what a subordinate superior kind of relationship kind of is when you distill it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say if you're my boss.
[SPEAKER_01]: you can adjust my schedule.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you can say, oh, eight, tomorrow I went to a clock, come here, you can tell me that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's part of the gig, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just normal.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if we have a little discrepancy, like I said, if I don't see you as a superior, I see you as a peer or a subordinate, and you see me as a subordinate, and you're telling me what to do, I'll be like, I'm not gonna do that, or like all at the very least, get mad at you thinking you can tell me what to do, even if I was gonna do it anyway, by the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: The feeling is that I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, there's no big deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, grab that ammo over there.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, please.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: We all know that just part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, grab that ammo over there.
[SPEAKER_00]: You wouldn't be like, can I get a please?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that doesn't happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I have definitely seen seen team guys interact with normal people.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know,
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems rude.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of the same thing where subconsciously, if I subconsciously think, I kind of deserve to be able to tell you to give me the milk.
[SPEAKER_00]: Give me the milk.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, give me the milk.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not even past me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, give me the milk.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not even, it's a statement.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I, if I have that feeling like I can do that,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll do it and without even really noticing it and if you have the feeling that hey, you know what hey Jock was kind of a badass like eight no problem here this but if you have like wait wait a second Jock is not no badass.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's just another guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the same as me or even worse Why is he telling me to this?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm better than he is It's a problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a real true problem So The question becomes well how am I supposed to treat people then right?
[SPEAKER_00]: How am I supposed to treat people?
[SPEAKER_00]: How am I supposed to know how to treat people when I can't know for sure?
[SPEAKER_00]: How they really see me in the hierarchy, which is a good point that you just made.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can be polite to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can be nice to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And inside, either consciously or subconsciously, you could be thinking to screw Draco.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe he thinks he can tell me when he's show up here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if you show up here with a smile on your face, there's still something going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, how am I supposed to know how I should treat you so that I can interact with you and we don't have these underlying issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do I supposed to?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I can't read can I read your mind?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you read anyone's mind?
[SPEAKER_00]: I've asked this question people for the way you can tell by their body language.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can tell by their tone.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you can, but maybe you can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what do you have to do?
[SPEAKER_00]: And the answer is pretty straightforward.
[SPEAKER_00]: What you have to do is regardless of where you think you are and where they think you, where they think you are in this hierarchy, regardless of that, what you do is you subordinate your ego.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you treat people as if they're above you in the hierarchy.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how you treat people.
[SPEAKER_00]: you treat them with respect, you listen to what they have to say, you allow them to influence you, you put some trust in them, you show them that you care about them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you do that, you all these different scenarios that I talked about, they're all going to be okay, you subordinate your ego.
[SPEAKER_00]: So instead of having in the back of your mind, you know what, I'm
[SPEAKER_00]: older than him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been doing you just too longer than him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have more kids than him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have more hair than him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever little things are in your brain that are telling you you're a little bit better than that other person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't listen to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead say, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: Echoes got a lot to offer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Echoes see some things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Echoes got a perspective that I need.
[SPEAKER_00]: Echoes Been he hasn't been doing this as long as he's he's out comes probably gonna be better.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to again I'm trying to make clear that I'm not just pretending.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I need to act like Echoes better I need to say you know we were talking earlier.
[SPEAKER_00]: I forget it for that we were recording or not, but When you and I look at someone that does GJ2
[SPEAKER_00]: when we're better than them at jujitsu and we tap them out, we don't think I'm a better person than him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even think I'm better at jujitsu.
[SPEAKER_00]: I might say, if I say I'm better than jujitsu than them, I'm better at jujitsu than them right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I've been training for longer than them and at some point they're gonna train more than me, whether it's in 10 years or 15 years, or three years, at some point they can overpass me, that's just the way it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you're a lesser person.
[SPEAKER_00]: because you're not as good as you get to it's me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I truly, and you know, I don't really view anyone as a support net.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think this is a huge help for this whole idea is when, when I interact with people, I don't view the, I truly, I, I truly give me a lie detector, give me a, a soul detector test because there's a difference, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: People can overcome, give me a soul detector.
[SPEAKER_00]: I truly don't look at someone and go, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm better than this person.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: They might not have as much experience to me, but they probably got this and they got that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I will admit that I try, I might look at like a very small number of people, like, oh, yeah, this person's not making good moves.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when I interact with people, I think, oh, I got something to learn from them.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're on a different journey.
[SPEAKER_00]: They might not be as far ahead, but they're gonna get further ahead than me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't have anybody that I view as an inferior or as a subordinate on the primal hierarchy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they've all got some skills that I don't have.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they've all can do things better than me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you can keep that in mind, it's going to create better relationships across the board, remembering that you don't have any subordinates, there are other people, and
[SPEAKER_00]: And just because in this particular moment, I might be better at, you know, reading aloud than echo is?
[SPEAKER_00]: Depitably, de blatably on who's debate on your second.
[SPEAKER_00]: I might be better at that one skill set than you are, but there's a plethora of things that you're better than me and by the way, I also look at his like, oh, in this momentary ecosystem, we're reading aloud matters.
[SPEAKER_00]: I win.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a whole bunch of other arenas where reading aloud doesn't mean a damn thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one cares.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one cares on the football field.
[SPEAKER_00]: How well you read aloud.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Literally no one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Zero people care.
[SPEAKER_00]: Zero people care that you can read aloud well when you're on the football field.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does it matter when you're making a video?
[SPEAKER_00]: How well you can read aloud?
[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't matter at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: doesn't matter at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I always like, oh, yeah, I'm ahead in this little tiny ecosystem.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got to win, but there's all these other arenas where I'm not better in any way.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, there's most arenas where I'm a little bit worse.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the protocol that we have to go with is to support an an or ego.
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen what people have to say, treat them with respect, allow them to influence you, put trust in them, and care about them.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's part one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, part one is to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Subordinate to your part two is remember that you are being judged.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then pay attention to the areas where you are getting judged.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is where that idea of a low level of paranoia comes in.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I liked, I've gone through my life with a low level of paranoia, meaning looking around going, you know what, I'm actually, I better do good job here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I better work a little extra hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we wrote the book, The Code, The Evaluation, the Protocol.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's good about that book is it gives you a way to grade yourself, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Grade yourself on,
[SPEAKER_00]: things that you're going to be judged in and I didn't make this connection so I was thinking about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, we actually wrote a book about how you get judged because we all get judged on this.
[SPEAKER_00]: We all get judged on health, on personal development, on professional development, on character, on on relationships and preparedness.
[SPEAKER_00]: We get judged on those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you write down what you're getting judged on, you can start to then pay attention to it and measure how you're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the point of the book, the Code of the Evaluation of the Protocol.
[SPEAKER_00]: We broke down the health portion, like physical fitness, sleep and rest, diet and nutrition.
[SPEAKER_00]: How did you do on those things today?
[SPEAKER_00]: We broke down personal development, intellectual fitness, time management, financial management, personal goals.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you do something to get smarter today?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there personal goals that you have that you have moved towards?
[SPEAKER_00]: Professional development.
[SPEAKER_00]: How you doing at work?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your performance at work?
[SPEAKER_00]: What advancement are you looking at?
[SPEAKER_00]: What qualifications have you racked up?
[SPEAKER_00]: Character in leadership.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you stay humble today?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you keep control over your emotions today?
[SPEAKER_00]: As a leader, did you help someone else?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you mentor?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you provide resources to people?
[SPEAKER_00]: From a relationship perspective, how's the time that you spent with your family today?
[SPEAKER_00]: How's the time that you spent with your friends today?
[SPEAKER_00]: Co-workers today.
[SPEAKER_00]: From a preparedness thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, this is something else I should have put in the list of things people will respect.
[SPEAKER_00]: How prepared are you for what's coming?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you do some martial arts training today?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you do weapons training today?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you run through some fire safety drills today?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you make contact with your community and make sure that they have what they need in some case, something happens?
[SPEAKER_00]: These are things that people universally respect.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are some of the things that we are getting judged on.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you have to keep this in mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: The things that you're working on,
[SPEAKER_00]: the things that you strive to get better at.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just because you are striving to do well at them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in some cases, you might become exceptional at them.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might garner exuberant wealth.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might get an incredible physical fitness.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might become a high level black belt in jujitsu.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's all kinds of things that you can do.
[SPEAKER_00]: That should command respect on this primal order, but none of that means anything if you're not staying humble.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're not staying humble, a while back, a kid asked me is on the Underground Podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a kid asked me something along the lines of, and don't quote me, it was something along the lines of, if being an, becoming an eagle scout would be beneficial for service in the military.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my answer started with that depends.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason that depends is,
[SPEAKER_00]: Being an Eagle Scout, there's all kinds of awesome things that you learn.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's difficult to achieve.
[SPEAKER_00]: You learn all these basic skill sets for life, for survivability, for being in the field, for interacting with other people, like that you learn some really quality skills.
[SPEAKER_00]: That are all things that will not all, but a lot of them could fit right into this matrix of being judged and how you're being judged.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you take and you learn all these skills from becoming an eagle scout and it increases your discipline and it increases your capability, man, that's awesome and it will be beneficial if you join the military.
[SPEAKER_00]: As long as, at some place in the back of your mind, your ego doesn't take those skills that you have and make you think that you're just a little bit better than everyone else.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever seen a program called The Boys?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I haven't watched all of it, but it's a show about superheroes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the one guy home lander.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's he's he's a superhero, but he's an asshole.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the blonde dude.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I've known.
[SPEAKER_00]: like leaders in the military, officers in the military, that were basically homelander.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because, and you could see it stemming from the fact that they were an equal scout.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: People that were equal scouts.
[SPEAKER_00]: that are good.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know that they're at Eagle Scout until you know them for like a year and a half.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know one day you're like out somewhere and you're trying to rig something and they like, go, hey, try this knot and you're like, dude, where'd you know that knot from music?
[SPEAKER_00]: I was at Eagle Scout.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you go, oh, damn, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you put and you do like a a six cents assessment of everything that you've seen this person do over the years.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, oh, yeah, make sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Guys always, you know, working hard has good character.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that makes sense at Eagle Scout.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, all day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: but then there's the other end of the spectrum.
[SPEAKER_00]: The person that's like, well, you know, before I went to the Naval Academy, it was an Eagle Scout.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, oh, no, here it comes.
[SPEAKER_00]: This person thinks he's better than me, because he is an Eagle Scout, you know, was the capital of the football team, went to the Naval Academy, all these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And every one of those things is, unfortunately, for him.
[SPEAKER_00]: giving him the impression that he is higher on the primal order than he actually is and that is a significant problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you work hard to improve yourself, you've got to remember that you still need to be humble.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well the worst mistake that you can make
[SPEAKER_00]: is overestimating how much people respect you and where you are on the on the on the primal order, where you are on this primal hierarchy.
[SPEAKER_00]: The worst mistake you can make when I look at leaders throughout my career, military and non-military, the guys that were hated, the guys that were hated, again,
[SPEAKER_00]: If you would ask them to assess their leadership and how much the team respected it admired them, it would be off the charts.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's off the charts.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you take someone that really was revered and admired and the way that they would grade themselves would be low.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is the class of case on podcast number five that we did.
[SPEAKER_00]: I read a counseling, counseling, a verbal counseling that I went through, that I wrote down for a seal officer that was going to get fired.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't getting fired yet, but I was trying to give him the final escalation of counseling of like you are going to get fired.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just as direct, no holds of hard, you are arrogant, people do not like you, your team doesn't want to listen to you, the whole mind you are just direct.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had created a self-assessment for the seal leaders that were going to start their work up, pre-deployment work up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had only done it.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is probably the second seal team that I've done it for.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, just assess how you are on these categories.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tactical leadership, physical, just write yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where you're at.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hadn't actually utilized them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was a good idea, but I hadn't actually utilized them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as I'm getting ready to counsel this guy, go, hey, know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to pull out that self-assessment I made for this guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And see what he thinks of himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I shit you not!
[SPEAKER_00]: The highest grade you could get for each category was a 5.0.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this dude ranked himself in whatever it was nine different categories and subcategories of leadership.
[SPEAKER_00]: He ranked himself as a 5.0 across the board.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as I look at that, I go, dude, this is crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said to myself, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder, I wonder what one of the good guys, how one of the good.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, you know, currently I was putting a seal team through the pre-to-poilment training and this guy was part of that seal team and I said, who's the best guy I got going right through right now, this training?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, oh yeah, I know who it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was really obvious, real standout guy, humble guy, hard work and actually crazy thing, this guy had,
[SPEAKER_00]: been through some significant combat experiences with some significant combat disasters.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he'd been, he'd been tested on the battlefield, the other guy hadn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I go, I wonder how that guy graded himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I reached in the file, I pulled out this guy's thing, and he's given himself a two, and a two point five, and a three, and his average score was like a two point six.
[SPEAKER_00]: and that guy was respected and admired by his platoon and this other knucklehead was hated and that the knucklehead and it's up getting fired.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a classic example of exactly what I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: The way this guy viewed himself as a five point O across the board, he was hated.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the guy that viewed himself as, you know, average to below average was admired and revered by his troops.
[SPEAKER_00]: So keep that in mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have as much leadership capital as you think you do.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have all this respect.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're not as high on that primal order as you think you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the only way to defend against having a problem is to break yourself at the bottom.
[SPEAKER_00]: Be humble.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what we have to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember, I would say that you are being judged.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're being judged all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, if you think people don't notice stuff, that should be your red flag that you're an idiot and that you're arrogant and that you're egotistical and that people don't like you.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you think people don't notice things, you are so wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: And right now, if you're listening to me going, yeah, it is no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't really agree with that, cause I'm a little bit smarter than the rest of people.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, I'm telling you, that is a red flag.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a red flag.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you think people don't see what you do, when you think they don't see your little maneuvers, that is a red flag.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to remember that you're being judged all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would specifically detach and think about and think about what you're being judged on and write those things down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe even formulated code, maybe even formulated an evaluation system so you can check yourself and you can try and improve your capabilities in these categories that you write down.
[SPEAKER_00]: So whatever job you're in, write down how you think you're being judged for that job
[SPEAKER_00]: And yes, you should think about the primal things.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should think about the ancillary things.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should think about the universal things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Think about how you're being judged and right them down.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you might have some faux paws in some of those categories.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might have really screwed some stuff up, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you better over-index on some other things to straighten yourself out.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you're one of these people that's been unreliable in the past, how are you gonna unback that reliability?
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to, and you have to overcompensate for it sometimes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you might have areas that are just weak.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might have some areas that you're just weak in.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we'd get guys in the sealed teams that would just like, they wouldn't be a good shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just wouldn't be a good shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'd, they'd work their ass off to be really good at some other stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or you have somebody that's not really good at diving.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, they'd work really hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's like a certain level of natural ability
[SPEAKER_00]: There's there's probably one out of every hundred guys That is just not gonna be that good with the pistol.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just they just don't have whatever little thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is some hand-eye coordination It's one out of every hundred guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: They barely barely make it through seal training Some of them
[SPEAKER_00]: Make up for it and they just train their ass off until they get good But if some of those guys even they're just never gonna have that And they're just gonna get good at some other stuff and they make up for them for their shortfalls So as you look at your life and where you're at and what you're doing and you look at how you're being judged There's probably gonna be some categories where you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm pretty I'm pretty bad in that category Definitely trying to improve it some of it is hard to improve
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of it, you know, if you're getting judged, if you play basketball, part of the judgment of how good you are is like how tall you are, can't change that, can't change that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe you become a really good shooter, maybe become a hardcore defender, maybe get really good at rebounds, Dennis Rodman, did you see the last dance?
[SPEAKER_01]: the last 10 stuck you mentioned.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should watch it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then his rodman would watch and a like aware his opponents would miss generally speaking.
[SPEAKER_00]: He just he just went so hard into becoming a good rebounder that didn't matter that he wasn't putting up big numbers on the offense because he was he made up for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you should do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: write some things down.
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you being judged?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then figure out where your short falls are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Try and improve those.
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember that people are watching you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And remember that if you think they're not watching you, you're wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you think they're watching you, they don't see what you're doing, you're the most wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lack of self-awareness, real problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then try and do better and try and be better.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then as much as you can.
[SPEAKER_00]: try not to judge people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I recognize that that is a very difficult thing to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very difficult to look at someone else and not on some level judge other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: But here's what you can control is when you judge them, then try and explain to yourself why you are actually their subordinate.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are actually, you should be listening to what they have
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to stay humble, because you don't know where you are on that category in their head.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what we need to do to close this out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Subordinate your ego while you simultaneously try and become the best that you can.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I got.
[SPEAKER_00]: With that?
[SPEAKER_00]: To get better?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we get a better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, we're gonna be better mentally when it's trying to be more earnest, we're gonna try and take care of people, we're gonna be humble, but we're also gonna have to be strong, still healthy, we're getting judged on that, that means we're getting after it, it means we're doing just to we're lifting, we're running, we're sprinting, and when we do that, guess what?
[SPEAKER_00]: Guess what?
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to need some fuel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Which we might as well call protein powder just protein desserts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they taste so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: The ready-to-drink protein.
[SPEAKER_00]: we're kind of crushing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, is the vanilla and the chocolate great?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're phenomenal.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the fruity cereal?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Are you going to, are you going to cap this year by the way?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hell yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm ready.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm already registered.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Regardless of where you are on the hierarchy, primal order of things, pecking order, all of the above.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually had a thought though, rewind just a little bit, so you know like some of these universal qualities that are appreciated whenever respected, like integrity, I noticed that it has a lot to do with consistency over time, for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like integrity, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like let's say Jokko is integrity, you know, you can trust them, you can trust them in the safe, you know, in the till the whole thing, whatever you work it up, store.
[SPEAKER_01]: you have to show integrity like if you let's say you don't have integrity right and you're like you know what I'm gonna make a change you know I got caught stealing I don't know something like this and I'm gonna make a change you can't just sort of make a change and it's changed you got to do consistently over time because that's like by its own nature is that like trustworthy integrity kind of everything though when you think about it like I was as you know I was part of a
[SPEAKER_01]: let's just say I may or may not struggle with showing up on time so if I'm like okay I change I turn over a new leaf I'm coming out I'm no longer a tardy person I can't just show up next week and everyone be like oh my gosh you're not lady anymore congratulations you're different no no no no no no no no no
[SPEAKER_01]: I can be on time for two months, every single day, 40 hours a week.
[SPEAKER_01]: When I come in late on that second month, the end of that second month, everyone's gonna be like, oh yeah, that's you, you're a tardy person.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, no surprise, no change.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're gonna do it consistently over time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, by my calculations, I forget if I tell you this before.
[SPEAKER_01]: My calculations is as long as it took for you to establish that reputation of being a tardy person, or of whatever person, you need
[SPEAKER_01]: That much time to get back to baseline to start a new reputation.
[SPEAKER_01]: give or take.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Longer or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Way longer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Way longer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you ever heard that thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: One aw shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: A race is 100 ad a boys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's 100.
[SPEAKER_00]: 100.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think?
[SPEAKER_00]: A 100 do one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now is that completely accurate?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, because I don't think it would take a hundred years to make up for if you were late for
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, let's say, let's say for a year, you and I started working together and for a year you were like intermittently late and then you turned over a new leaf.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're saying you would take a one year to get back to baseline baseline meaning you have an even reputation reputation, either for or again.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when you can start your new.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, actually, if I think about that, if you were consistently on time for a year.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you were late again.
[SPEAKER_00]: What would I think?
[SPEAKER_00]: What I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, he's late.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but that is the start of a new reputation, which is coincidentally, the old rep, you could reputation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I think I would immediately tie back into the year that you were late all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, after one year, one year, you've got to go two years.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you got to go double.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the get the baseline baseline double to get the baseline.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think double to get to into the new reputation, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so this is what the way I see it to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you can take it with pretty much anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess if it's a real detrimental thing My take longer because there's more to risk I think psychologically, but let's say late We worked together for one year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm late like twice a week out of the five days week, right three times a week.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a late person right there three times a week is late
[SPEAKER_01]: for one year.
[SPEAKER_01]: The one year I'm like, maybe a console there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just turn over Nulee for right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hear this cool podcast thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can, you know, the whole late speech.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then for one whole year, I'm never late at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I come in five minutes early on the dot every single time, right, for one more year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say, if I wasn't the late person I was witnessing it, I would think, yeah, we're about back to baseline.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I mean, I don't necessarily expect them to be on time every time at this point, but I'm kind of convinced
[SPEAKER_01]: that I'm not convinced to be late three times.
[SPEAKER_01]: Seems like so we're at baseline now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Add one more year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: From that baseline, that one year, now one more year, so it's been two whole years, total.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've been on time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you've been on time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Same exact on the dot five minutes before.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's been two years since you turned over in New Leaf.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you only had one year, reputation of being, I think you'd be into a new reputation.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'd be an on-time guy at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the, I think one of the problems with that is I think people inherently know how difficult it is for people to change.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so even when you are on time for a whole year straight in the you're letting it out, there it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, all there it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you, we're so ready for people to just not be able to change because people, it is very difficult for people to change.
[SPEAKER_00]: usually people change because of either something traumatic like oh yeah echo had a job he got fired and he had a really good job by the way a shitty job if you got fired from being a freaking when you were a balancer you got fired you didn't like whatever yeah whatever but if you had some really good job
[SPEAKER_00]: That you love doing and you got fired then it'd be a wake-up call.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but even then Even that's really hard for people to change.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's weird how hard it is for people to change their nature You know when people have a bad temper and it gets in them in trouble over and over again I mean never mind we get into like talk about addiction You know you start talking about addiction and it's like alcoholism
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, on the one hand, the one choice, I'm not gonna drink.
[SPEAKER_00]: There you have health, you have prosperity, you have relationships, you have feeling good when you wake up in the morning, you have a clean house like there's all these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: On the other, choice is you just drunk.
[SPEAKER_00]: And people consistently choose, I'm not going to be healthy, I'm not going to be prosperous, I'm not going to be clean, I'm going to feel like shit, and we'll just take it because I just want to have alcohol.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's one example, someone being late, it's very difficult to get people to change.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't realize how much of a detriment it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like all those little things that we remember.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all of a sudden you're late and look up.
[SPEAKER_00]: There it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think people need a little bit more convincing If you want to prove to someone that they've changed and by the way, it's not on me To be open to the new you correct.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's on you
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when you've created yourself a bad reputation and then you think everyone needs to, you know, accept the new you and don't work that way, you have to earn it and it might take years when when people have broken trust trust it really causes problems, you know, it takes a long time to recover that trust and again.
[SPEAKER_00]: was it unintentional?
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it intentional?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you like legitimately steal from me?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or did you just a, you're, you did wrong math and now you ended up with a few thousand in your bank account and we go through the numbers and you're like, oh dude, I didn't realize purple.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you know, that's different.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still my trust for you has gone down, but it's different when then would, I'm like, oh, here's where you move the money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, there's an actually, I mean, not to go to it goes even deeper than that because I've had someone people like literally like steel from me.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in the spirit of understanding, I always like, you know, we do this as fun sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be like, I don't agree with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wouldn't do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I can see how he got there, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that path, that path of
[SPEAKER_01]: opportunity all the way down to action, right, the stealing.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can kind of mentally kind of understand each step, given the circumstances, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: that journey is going to determine whether or not or how long it's going to take to build back trust.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, because some people like their kind of, it's like the difference between premeditated, I don't know, assault versus aggravated assault.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh wait, like, I can see how we got there given the circles, you know, so it kind of, you make the evaluation that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, you're right, you're actually so right about, because there's, but let's face it, it's pretty common, Mike, it's pretty common where,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, I turned over a new leaf, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, but you're still getting treated like you're the old person or it's like, yeah, bro, you've been that way for like 10 years and it's been two weeks now.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now you're a whole new person.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, bro, it's gonna take some time to kind of prove that, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of up to you to make your case through acts, through the behavior you're seeing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's really hard for people to change.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got to be a real reason for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We had a new guy in one of my patrons and he was just like, like always a loudmouth, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And we tried everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: we tried counseling, we tried talking to him, we tried beating him, we tried haze, we did everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, we liked him.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, bro, you kind of know when to shut up.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: And he never changed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I do him for, I think he stayed in for 10, 12, 15 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe 12 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like the whole time I knew him, he was always like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, oh, yeah, he's not going to change.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: And he probably, you know, it got him into some trouble.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, his mouth will get him into some trouble.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once, you know, we kind of understood that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we try to beat it out of him, but it couldn't change him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I imagine you know what you're doing is wrong where you can't stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was just his personality.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you think, well, it's very difficult for people to change.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very, very difficult.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a change.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's basically kind of how you said where it's either to change.
[SPEAKER_01]: You gotta have big trauma like one traumatic thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even traumatic thing is so subjective where you could quote him what beat it out of them but getting beat up is not trauma That's like Brad been beat up before fuck whatever, you know, kind of thing But some people it's like if they get embarrassed they'll be old and they'll change, you know, because that's traumatic You know, so trauma is very subjective in that way
[SPEAKER_01]: or so either one big traumatic thing and they change or repetitive like almost like a therapeutic level or like you're hanging around the right people now you know and it slowly over time after one you're just like them especially if you're conscious of it you know so it's like either those two but yeah you can't just be like hey I think you should change and then or you can't just see like a cool movie or video be like oh I want to be like freaking the guy on a few good men
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's people that's that that happens to but it's got to find them at the right time and they got You know, it's like what when they say you got to want that change.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think the recidivism rate in Like rehab is like 95% Like you go to rehab cool You just don't drink for 22 days or whatever it is 30 days.
[SPEAKER_00]: You come back out 95 98% chance or something like that you're drinking again
[SPEAKER_00]: Until someone Something happens, you know, they they get in a car accident.
[SPEAKER_00]: They lose their license And they go holy shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm ruining my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then they can stop
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and obviously I'm not expert on this kind of stuff, but it's does seem like if it's deep into who they are, then you're in that scenario where either trauma or repetitive, but otherwise it's like it's probably not, you know, if you if you can watch a movie and be like, I want to be more like that guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you're more like that guy is like right your current identity isn't that established You know you see it and it kind of works like that across board like even like if people are like you if you quit drinking right you You're not an alcoholic by any means you're a kind of guy who's like
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this isn't really service like consciously just be like it's not really serving me Yeah, and then stop drinking and boom, that's kind of it, you know, that's like enough But alcoholic person that's like a deeper scenario, you know, where if it's like if you have to go to a quote unquote rehab, like an actual established professional rehab place, all right, we're talking therapy right at that point.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking repeated conscious, you know, kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It still doesn't work.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like that's a deeper thing
[SPEAKER_00]: Jack.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, a lot of us are on the path.
[SPEAKER_01]: We represent on the path.
[SPEAKER_01]: This will equals freedom, which is true, by the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I learned that about 10 and 11 years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just win equals freedom.
[SPEAKER_01]: where this idea of good you want to represent that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got your shirts for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Got some jackets for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fall coming up in a few months, by the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Got some hoodies for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some shorts for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of good stuff on there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good designs.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to, okay, there's another thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's start off our yardie, no, I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shortlock, subscription scenario.
[SPEAKER_01]: New design every month.
[SPEAKER_01]: They come to release one more design into the wild.
[SPEAKER_01]: From old school, shirt locker.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or one.
[SPEAKER_01]: all your excuses are lies okay that's a good one pretty solid yeah written on the floor with chalk by the way yeah anyway be on the lookout for that if you want the heads up on that one and anything else to rare but sometimes I do give people the heads up on these new things come out so you can get get it get a jump on them sometimes they sell out want to say sometimes all the time
[SPEAKER_01]: It's my bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still got to get a handle of how much to get, but if you want to You want the heads up sign up on the email list on jockelstore.com at the bottom there Put your email in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I won't spam.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't spam.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do not believe in spamming as being a useful behavior Me neither.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am all but anyway, yes, it's all on jockelstore.com
[SPEAKER_00]: With that we also got some books.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've written a bunch of books written a bunch of kids books You can check those out also.
[SPEAKER_00]: Check out put your legs on by Rob Jones and need lead by Dave Burke Check out Colorado craft beef.com if you need some steak We have Ashlan front if you have problems inside your organization leadership problems
[SPEAKER_00]: the problems are leadership problems.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you're not quite.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe there's a whole shadow organization in hierarchy in your team that you don't know about.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what we do.
[SPEAKER_00]: We help you at echelonfront.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: Check that out for our events or to have us come into your business and help you.
[SPEAKER_00]: We also have an online leadership training academy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Leadership is a skill.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you want to learn the skills of leadership, check out extremeownership.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you want to help service members, active and retired, you want to help their families.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to help gold star families.
[SPEAKER_00]: Check out Mark Lee's mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mama Lee, she's got an amazing charity organization helping so many of our vets.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to americasmightywariors.org.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also check out heroesenhorsts.org.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a fake taken, veterans up into the mountains where they can lose themselves and find themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jimmy May's organization beyond the brotherhood.org.
[SPEAKER_00]: Check out their squim.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have coming up August.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also warriors in need, warriors in need.org.
[SPEAKER_00]: check and taking a military aviation people and moving them into the civilian sector and a smooth transition.
[SPEAKER_00]: So check that out as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to connect with us, check out jacodacom also on social media.
[SPEAKER_00]: You check out at jacodacodacodacodacodarls, but just be careful because it's a big freaking brainwashing.
[SPEAKER_00]: cesspool that you don't want any part of.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe don't check us out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe just stay away from it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks all the soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines who are currently deployed around the world right now in harm's way out there to protect freedom and our way of life.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are thankful and grateful for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, thanks to our Police Law Enforcement Firefighters, Paramedics, EMTs, Dispatchers, Correctional Officers, Board of Patrol, Secret Service, as well as all other first responders.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for protecting us here at home and everyone else out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just look, there's a lot of judging going on in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: People are judging you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which means you need to get better.
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to do better.
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to be better.
[SPEAKER_00]: But once again, warning, do not let it get to your head.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't let your ego grow just because your skills grew or just because your strength grew or just because your intellect grows instead stay humble as you push yourself to get better and you do that by getting up every day and getting after it and that's always got for tonight and until next time this is echo and jocco