WEBVTT 00:00.287 --> 00:11.491 [SPEAKER_01]: When your cat is acting weird, or your dog is being loud, or your turtle moves slow, or Slow, Ted. 00:11.691 --> 00:15.993 [SPEAKER_01]: Your cat seems thirsty, or Slow down, buddy. 00:16.193 --> 00:21.375 [SPEAKER_01]: Or your puppy is acting clumsy, or Day or night. 00:21.755 --> 00:24.076 [SPEAKER_01]: If you don't know what's wrong, no where to go. 00:38.951 --> 00:45.058 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to Feeding the Mouth of Biteshoe, a weekly podcast guide on parenting teens and launching them into the world. 00:45.619 --> 00:50.784 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Cynthia Gannonff, and as always, I'm joined by psychologists and author, Dr. Ken Wilgus. 00:51.625 --> 00:52.967 [SPEAKER_04]: Cynthia, how you doing? 00:53.447 --> 00:55.008 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm good, I'm real good. 00:55.088 --> 00:59.831 [SPEAKER_00]: Are we going to address the elephant in the room about my parenting from the other day? 01:00.872 --> 01:06.056 [SPEAKER_00]: And let's just preface this by saying, kids, bless it. 01:06.856 --> 01:08.978 [SPEAKER_00]: And this time I really do mean kids not teens. 01:09.578 --> 01:16.863 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was with a bunch of friends and my daughter called and said, hey, you need to make sure and get JB off your phone. 01:16.903 --> 01:19.285 [SPEAKER_00]: He's texting, which is my youngest JB. 01:19.445 --> 01:19.945 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh yes. 01:20.305 --> 01:25.026 [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, and I didn't think much about it, but he wasn't with me, so he didn't have my phone. 01:25.086 --> 01:28.467 [SPEAKER_00]: Apparently in my iPad, he's with his dad, which is also my husband. 01:28.587 --> 01:30.407 [SPEAKER_04]: He sent his sweet text action. 01:30.547 --> 01:36.969 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I go back and look, not only is he just texting away, he's audio texting, and of all the people. 01:37.249 --> 01:40.509 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have to audio text the parenting expert? 01:40.769 --> 01:43.070 [SPEAKER_04]: Come on, that's gonna make me look bad. 01:43.875 --> 01:44.516 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, nothing. 01:44.736 --> 01:51.340 [SPEAKER_00]: Not apparently, he's just really milly walking around with an iPad, no supervision, all the things. 01:51.440 --> 01:53.342 [SPEAKER_00]: But you did get to hear some good audience. 01:53.362 --> 01:55.643 [SPEAKER_04]: I think he said he loved me or something like that. 01:55.764 --> 01:58.325 [SPEAKER_04]: I was something very sweet in a naughty way. 01:58.445 --> 02:00.267 [SPEAKER_00]: But it was a great idea. 02:00.607 --> 02:01.808 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope he was speaking to me. 02:01.868 --> 02:04.590 [SPEAKER_00]: But nonetheless, I just wanted to know that went down. 02:04.670 --> 02:10.454 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know, infamy or something in the yellow house when JB was texting Dr. Ken. 02:10.474 --> 02:10.834 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 02:11.034 --> 02:11.295 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. 02:13.832 --> 02:14.012 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 02:14.432 --> 02:18.593 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Mike and I at times do things a little bit differently. 02:18.613 --> 02:19.773 [SPEAKER_00]: I love my husband. 02:19.813 --> 02:20.633 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a great father. 02:21.173 --> 02:21.974 [SPEAKER_00]: Amazing father. 02:22.254 --> 02:27.374 [SPEAKER_00]: But we sometimes handle things differently when it comes to things such as devices, etc. 02:27.695 --> 02:30.295 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is kind of what we're talking about today. 02:30.315 --> 02:30.475 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 02:31.015 --> 02:36.156 [SPEAKER_00]: What do we do when our spouse is an on board with planned emancipation? 02:36.536 --> 02:37.976 [SPEAKER_00]: Whether that's the husband or the wife. 02:37.996 --> 02:39.857 [SPEAKER_00]: They just look at it a little differently. 02:39.897 --> 02:40.957 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk through that today. 02:41.463 --> 03:04.887 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, this comes through in questions from our listeners, not infrequently, and that kind of brings out a priority that I want to make sure that that I think is very important to parents, I'm not kidding your marriage is more important than your relationship with your children that may actually shock some people when we're very invested in in our parenting and all this stuff. 03:05.327 --> 03:09.029 [SPEAKER_04]: but you're not going, your goal is not to be buried next to your child. 03:09.489 --> 03:11.990 [SPEAKER_04]: Your goal is to be buried next to that spouse of yours. 03:12.210 --> 03:27.577 [SPEAKER_04]: And so when there is disagreement about even something like plan of anticipation, which I believe in very much, you really need to slow down and make sure find a way to be on the same page or really reconsider whether you should do it or not. 03:27.997 --> 03:29.518 [SPEAKER_04]: That's how strong I feel about it. 03:30.338 --> 03:33.640 [SPEAKER_04]: Because again, the main thing is to work that out as a team, 03:34.740 --> 03:39.322 [SPEAKER_04]: where you're a similar page, you didn't have the identical page. 03:39.483 --> 03:49.207 [SPEAKER_04]: But the bottom line is, let's say I'm a mom who likes this stuff and I want to give plan a emancipation, but my husband has gone a lot and he didn't really seem to think it's a good idea. 03:49.448 --> 03:51.929 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to go ahead and just give out a freedoms list anyway. 03:52.089 --> 03:53.229 [SPEAKER_04]: I would not do that. 03:53.630 --> 03:57.692 [SPEAKER_04]: I would, I think that's a signal that you and your husband need to 03:58.412 --> 04:06.435 [SPEAKER_04]: go out to dinner together several times with no book in your hand and start talking through where our objections are. 04:07.015 --> 04:24.381 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I remember when the kids were babies and event you probably had this, some of our listeners have had this like one parents that we're going to cry it out learn to sleep through the night and the other like I can't stand to hear the cry, you know, the more sensitive personalities shocking to no one. 04:24.481 --> 04:26.542 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like you're fine, cry it out, kid. 04:27.262 --> 04:28.283 [SPEAKER_04]: That would be you, wasn't it? 04:28.403 --> 04:28.663 [SPEAKER_04]: It was you. 04:28.683 --> 04:29.764 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, right? 04:30.585 --> 04:33.347 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, at some point, they sleep through the night, right? 04:33.467 --> 04:34.728 [SPEAKER_00]: Like yes. 04:34.908 --> 04:39.632 [SPEAKER_00]: And we don't have to burn the marriage down in the process of getting a kid to sleep through the night. 04:40.092 --> 04:47.958 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about that, though, on the teenage level, things don't just naturally happen as easy as getting a kid at some point to sleep through the night. 04:48.078 --> 04:53.883 [SPEAKER_00]: Is there a way that this still works in some former fashion if just one parent is on board with it? 04:54.307 --> 04:56.749 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so and I think that's an important point. 04:56.769 --> 05:15.786 [SPEAKER_04]: By the way, have you been seeing some of the, I don't know what reels you look at, but there's now several that are talking about that we've now neurologically discovered it's damaging to let kids cry it out all of a sudden it's another new false scientific truth that you must never let them cry it out it quote damages. 05:16.491 --> 05:18.954 [SPEAKER_04]: I just don't know who, where are these things coming from? 05:19.034 --> 05:22.738 [SPEAKER_04]: That's not correct and not too early, but, you know, at a certain point. 05:22.978 --> 05:24.119 [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, just thought that was a... 05:24.500 --> 05:27.403 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but now I did just second guess everything ever did. 05:27.463 --> 05:28.183 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for that. 05:28.264 --> 05:30.786 [SPEAKER_04]: But, I don't know who comes up with this stuff. 05:30.826 --> 05:31.887 [SPEAKER_04]: It's snake oil cells. 05:31.967 --> 05:35.331 [SPEAKER_04]: We do not have neurological evidence that it damages their brain. 05:35.351 --> 05:36.172 [SPEAKER_04]: That's not true. 05:37.044 --> 05:38.906 [SPEAKER_04]: So anyway, but that's a good example. 05:38.926 --> 05:40.768 [SPEAKER_00]: The baby monitor companies, it's fine. 05:41.088 --> 05:43.971 [SPEAKER_04]: That must be the point where losing money. 05:44.891 --> 05:49.656 [SPEAKER_04]: So when it comes to adolescence, yeah, it's pretty common. 05:50.236 --> 05:55.020 [SPEAKER_04]: The most common is a dad who, you know, playing a emancipation kind of fits. 05:55.841 --> 05:57.183 [SPEAKER_04]: most father's instinct. 05:57.543 --> 06:13.159 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, fathering is, I think it was Jordan Peterson said that typically, a mother's instinct, the mother is the champion of the child as he or she is, and the father champions the child as he or she can and should be. 06:13.699 --> 06:17.621 [SPEAKER_04]: So, fathers are always like, you know, if we keep doing that for them, they'll never let it do it himself. 06:17.641 --> 06:20.282 [SPEAKER_04]: That's a general tendency. 06:20.862 --> 06:22.843 [SPEAKER_04]: And plant emancipation fits into that. 06:23.824 --> 06:26.505 [SPEAKER_04]: So, very often, it's a mom that disagrees. 06:27.005 --> 06:30.367 [SPEAKER_04]: And so, what you're dealing with is first how to talk about it. 06:31.007 --> 06:37.390 [SPEAKER_04]: to try to come to some agreement on it and we get to that a second. 06:37.450 --> 06:48.234 [SPEAKER_04]: But when you can't, it's important to keep in mind that the real fundamental goal of planned emancipation is giving the message that you are no longer a child. 06:48.314 --> 06:52.256 [SPEAKER_04]: I see you as a young adult and your life is more and more in your hands. 06:52.676 --> 07:01.060 [SPEAKER_04]: So if you do have a spouse that you think is still over-envolving and takes on too much and won't let go of things, it's not disastrous. 07:01.100 --> 07:05.182 [SPEAKER_04]: You can still find ways to bring up in conversation. 07:05.222 --> 07:09.224 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, you used to be different, but you're not six anymore. 07:09.264 --> 07:11.145 [SPEAKER_04]: You're 16 and what do you think? 07:11.485 --> 07:20.911 [SPEAKER_04]: That's still a way to help get across that respectful message, even if you're not following sort of a the logical pattern that plan to emancipation is. 07:20.931 --> 07:21.692 [SPEAKER_04]: Does that make sense? 07:21.772 --> 07:23.973 [SPEAKER_04]: Like it's still, it's still something you're saying. 07:23.993 --> 07:24.714 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a message. 07:25.442 --> 07:26.182 [SPEAKER_00]: makes total sense. 07:26.482 --> 07:32.484 [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, we will kind of hit it just a second about when the mothers disagree, the fathers disagree, go through more specifics. 07:32.944 --> 07:34.665 [SPEAKER_00]: But could you just give us a word? 07:34.705 --> 07:41.247 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go back to something that seems maybe obvious, but I'm not sure we can hear it enough, that the marriage matters, right? 07:41.527 --> 07:43.888 [SPEAKER_00]: And you can be the best 07:44.859 --> 07:46.881 [SPEAKER_00]: planned emancipation parent in the world. 07:46.921 --> 07:58.232 [SPEAKER_00]: But if your child is your young adult is watching your marriage crumble or watching a disrespectfulness or talking behind each other's back, that opens up a can of worms for a whole lot of other issues. 07:58.252 --> 07:58.713 [SPEAKER_04]: That's right. 07:59.173 --> 08:02.597 [SPEAKER_04]: And basically, you're cutting each other off at the knees. 08:02.677 --> 08:03.357 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not like 08:04.278 --> 08:05.359 [SPEAKER_04]: And this is even true. 08:05.779 --> 08:09.600 [SPEAKER_04]: It's one of the things that's hard about divorce is that it's very hard to be on the same page. 08:10.201 --> 08:24.587 [SPEAKER_04]: When you're both very invested in your children, but you're not married, even then it still does not help at all to kind of critique the other parent because it actually ends up limiting your validity in their mind and the other parents validity. 08:24.607 --> 08:30.249 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not a matter of, well, you know, I taught them to not listen to their father and that was better. 08:30.469 --> 08:30.969 [SPEAKER_04]: You can't. 08:31.069 --> 08:32.150 [SPEAKER_04]: It'll teach them that 08:33.171 --> 08:42.182 [SPEAKER_04]: You can't really trust either of us because we doubt each other, so it's essential not only for your own life, their own marriage, but children need to see. 08:43.444 --> 08:44.785 [SPEAKER_04]: parents who support each other. 08:45.186 --> 08:59.998 [SPEAKER_04]: And the real pinnacle of that, by the way, is boys need to see a father who loves their mother well, who really knows how to care for what she needs without feeling secure and critique. 09:00.178 --> 09:02.780 [SPEAKER_04]: That's a huge factor in boy's success. 09:04.181 --> 09:08.365 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, what's hard, I think sometimes I'm just from a practical level, 09:08.858 --> 09:14.983 [SPEAKER_00]: Apparenting level for many of us it feels like there's the good cop bad cop situation 09:15.938 --> 09:28.123 [SPEAKER_00]: And this frustration about it in my house, I tend to be the bad cop again, shocker, but just because I'm there the most, I'm Most likely to have to enforce the things that are going on. 09:28.163 --> 09:29.844 [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's going on all the things. 09:30.324 --> 09:35.306 [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's becomes this resentment level over this like, well, I wish if I could always be fun. 09:35.346 --> 09:38.447 [SPEAKER_00]: They would, you know, like exactly all that. 09:39.167 --> 09:39.627 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 09:39.647 --> 09:40.528 [SPEAKER_00]: The Disney dad. 09:41.929 --> 09:55.646 [SPEAKER_00]: complex maybe that we that we get frustrated with and so let's just maybe have just a word on that one is it true that I mean both dynamics help raise a kid but also that by being an enforcer 09:56.627 --> 09:57.348 [SPEAKER_00]: of certain things. 09:57.388 --> 09:59.709 [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't necessarily make you the bad guy. 09:59.729 --> 10:12.699 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think kids, especially, but teens, they, they do thrive on some systematic discipline, if you will, systematic ways of doing things in the household, but they thrive in that versus willy nilly. 10:13.099 --> 10:37.093 [SPEAKER_04]: anything goes but just talk to us about this no matter what side you're on it can be difficult feeling like I mean they're I the bad cop or maybe I'm always a good cop and they only when they listen to his hurt like what's it that's a good example so you could look at that like I'm thinking about this for my children and I'm always the bad cop and he's the good cop and is that good for them but I would turn that around with no that's a marriage experience 10:37.593 --> 10:46.478 [SPEAKER_04]: most every mom I know that definitely has that feeling of he doesn't intervene enough for whatever because he's not boots on the ground like I am. 10:46.938 --> 10:53.962 [SPEAKER_04]: That's a wife who is feeling the most common pain I hear from wives all the time, which is I feel alone here. 10:54.542 --> 10:58.966 [SPEAKER_04]: So she doesn't have to be, quote, accurate because men will answer with, well, wait a minute. 10:59.366 --> 11:07.372 [SPEAKER_04]: I took them last Wednesday and you know, like as if there's some calendar number that says, he'll answer the wrong accusation. 11:07.712 --> 11:19.641 [SPEAKER_04]: That's as a wife who feels alone in this and it's much more important that she be able to talk to him about that feeling like I'm the one in 11:23.384 --> 11:31.067 [SPEAKER_04]: undercutting me, talk about that more as a wife, not as a sort of amateur parenting expert. 11:31.547 --> 11:38.710 [SPEAKER_04]: That's especially true when you're talking to a husband, because I don't know if you noticed, but we husbands are very defensive, very touchy. 11:38.770 --> 11:44.413 [SPEAKER_04]: We're quite certain that you're saying that I suck as a father, at that's your point, right, huh? 11:44.473 --> 11:47.214 [SPEAKER_04]: Is that what you're like, no, that's not what I'm saying. 11:47.634 --> 11:53.720 [SPEAKER_04]: So that's a very good example of how it's important for wives to talk to their husbands about what they need. 11:54.200 --> 11:56.202 [SPEAKER_04]: It does not help for you to bite your tongue. 11:56.242 --> 12:04.530 [SPEAKER_04]: He really wants to know, but it does help if you center on this is what I'm feeling, not feeling like a feel like your a jerk. 12:04.590 --> 12:05.391 [SPEAKER_04]: That's not a feeling. 12:05.711 --> 12:09.595 [SPEAKER_04]: I feel alone, I feel invisible, I feel, you know, all that. 12:10.215 --> 12:13.678 [SPEAKER_04]: it in a way that try to help seem to feel respected. 12:13.918 --> 12:15.099 [SPEAKER_04]: And we've said this many times. 12:15.519 --> 12:20.943 [SPEAKER_04]: Men, if you hear men talk to each other, that are in a sort of conflict, but they're friends or whatever. 12:20.983 --> 12:26.947 [SPEAKER_04]: You hear a lot of apologizing, a lot of prefacing with things like, listen, I'm not saying you're a bad father. 12:26.967 --> 12:29.789 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not saying that you don't, I mean, you probably already know this. 12:29.949 --> 12:36.013 [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of this sort of, it's basically equalizing the level of respect because that's how men listen to things. 12:36.473 --> 12:39.494 [SPEAKER_04]: So, it's not a matter of does he deserve to be respected? 12:39.514 --> 12:51.438 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a matter of almost like a dialect, like he'll listen better if he hears, I'm asking for your help because I feel invisible here, and I'm not saying you're a bad father. 12:51.758 --> 12:55.920 [SPEAKER_04]: That's actually a better way to do it rather than what may really feel like, well, 12:56.360 --> 13:03.547 [SPEAKER_04]: No, I'm not a wife who feels, I'm a mom who knows that this man just can't stick up with things. 13:03.587 --> 13:04.468 [SPEAKER_04]: He's just like his father. 13:04.748 --> 13:06.270 [SPEAKER_04]: That's not actually accurate. 13:06.310 --> 13:14.638 [SPEAKER_04]: You really need to stick with what you know for sure, and in the marriage is very common for a wife to feel like, and more than just that I'm the enforcer. 13:15.119 --> 13:18.342 [SPEAKER_04]: But I'm the only one really doing the hard stuff here. 13:18.835 --> 13:25.980 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's so easy to mistake something as a parenting issue when it's really a communication issue for a marriage issue. 13:26.140 --> 13:26.360 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 13:26.660 --> 13:26.960 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. 13:27.220 --> 13:30.042 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's better to look at it more personally like what is this. 13:31.183 --> 13:34.025 [SPEAKER_04]: And in other words, when we talk about differences with our kids. 13:34.925 --> 13:40.189 [SPEAKER_04]: don't be actually lean into being aware that we'll wait and I'm talking as a husband here. 13:40.549 --> 13:41.890 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm talking as a wife here. 13:42.311 --> 13:52.618 [SPEAKER_04]: Rather than what most of those conversations are I am representing generic parent who happens to be correct, and I'm talking to the other generic parent who's doing it wrong. 13:52.658 --> 13:54.660 [SPEAKER_04]: That's just not really whatever what's happening. 13:55.160 --> 13:56.061 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, okay. 13:56.661 --> 14:00.164 [SPEAKER_00]: So talk to us about when mothers disagree with planned emancipation. 14:00.184 --> 14:01.245 [SPEAKER_00]: What's your experience in that? 14:01.712 --> 14:11.437 [SPEAKER_04]: That's the most common is because, and I mentioned that in the book, because a sort of instinct that mothers have is an insurance. 14:11.757 --> 14:13.237 [SPEAKER_04]: I need to make sure my kid is okay. 14:13.778 --> 14:14.758 [SPEAKER_04]: She has what she needs. 14:15.038 --> 14:16.299 [SPEAKER_04]: She's heard all that stuff. 14:16.759 --> 14:21.661 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, respectful plan of anticipation, which gives respect. 14:21.681 --> 14:22.942 [SPEAKER_04]: It leaves these things to you. 14:23.702 --> 14:38.294 [SPEAKER_04]: as a teenager, absolutely can will feel unloving, most mothers really struggle with what kind of a mother am I that I knew for well he had left his homework on the table just like I told him not to and I let him walk out to the bus. 14:38.334 --> 14:39.795 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's a respectful mom. 14:40.215 --> 14:46.660 [SPEAKER_04]: So, it's important for husbands to make sure above all when you're dealing with your wife about this. 14:47.080 --> 14:50.783 [SPEAKER_04]: Two things, number one, a lot of times a husband will find out that his wife doesn't agree. 14:51.364 --> 14:56.568 [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know if you know this, but women can be kind of rattling to their husbands. 14:56.788 --> 14:58.569 [SPEAKER_04]: You are probably that way. 14:58.949 --> 15:00.190 [SPEAKER_04]: I haven't talked to your husband about it. 15:00.230 --> 15:05.755 [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know that I've seen that scientific study, Dr. Campa, and that's not scientific. 15:07.616 --> 15:14.380 [SPEAKER_04]: But it's, it's often that a, you know, a mom that is just so confident, like, no, we are not, uh, we're not doing that. 15:15.020 --> 15:22.084 [SPEAKER_04]: It can really rattle her husband and he'll out of respect, so to speak, back out and like, fine, I'll let you do it. 15:22.564 --> 15:24.846 [SPEAKER_04]: That's what increases her feeling of alone. 15:25.206 --> 15:26.307 [SPEAKER_04]: So don't back out. 15:27.027 --> 15:38.650 [SPEAKER_04]: Instead, talk to her about what is it that you're what would scare you about doing planned emancipation and above all make sure your wife knows that you have heard her. 15:39.590 --> 15:43.551 [SPEAKER_04]: That conversation doesn't sound like no, no, no, that's not what the book says. 15:43.931 --> 15:48.992 [SPEAKER_04]: That conversation says like a husband going, oh, so is that the same thing last week? 15:49.012 --> 15:53.893 [SPEAKER_04]: When when I told you that and you seem to be, it's scary for you and make sure she knows 15:56.894 --> 15:57.111 [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you. 15:57.722 --> 16:03.405 [SPEAKER_04]: before you start talking about where you differ, make sure she knows that you have heard her. 16:03.825 --> 16:08.368 [SPEAKER_04]: And not just as a technique, like really try to get in her head. 16:08.768 --> 16:12.970 [SPEAKER_04]: It's probably what most husbands listening did to trick her into marrying you in the first place. 16:13.350 --> 16:16.752 [SPEAKER_04]: If you listen to her, you really let her know you remembered stuff. 16:17.112 --> 16:19.514 [SPEAKER_04]: That's how you calm your wife's fears. 16:20.654 --> 16:25.597 [SPEAKER_04]: Even if it sounds like she just objects out of her, know it all ski, whatever you think it is, 16:27.558 --> 16:30.080 [SPEAKER_04]: and it's not unusual for moms to be fearful of that. 16:30.501 --> 16:34.685 [SPEAKER_04]: This whole thing is a very anti-nurturing instinct. 16:35.325 --> 16:52.902 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and acknowledging, I think, with our wives, that it's counter-cultural in so many ways to do it this way and so as a mom who day in a day out is communicating with other moms and seeing how it goes and you're the only one that let your kid go to soccer with no cleat right? 16:53.322 --> 16:53.702 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 16:53.962 --> 16:57.705 [SPEAKER_00]: Then you're still like, wait, I thought I was on board that nobody else is doing this. 16:57.785 --> 17:04.208 [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, and I think if there was a little bit of acknowledgement that is, and sometimes it's the dads that are in the trenches. 17:04.229 --> 17:14.795 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying I'm not trying to gender stereotype, but I'm a dad of whoever's there, the day and the day out a lot of these things, it is so countercultural in a lot of respects that it is easy to second guess. 17:15.455 --> 17:43.636 [SPEAKER_04]: and it doesn't help your wife for you to go yeah we've talked about that you can't let that bother you you need to just let that roll off honestly if you were a guy it would help male friends will say to each other yeah I think you're making too big a deal out of it and he'll go yeah it's a good point it helps what never helps a wife she needs to hear I get that I must be there there when you're the only one I get how hard that is yeah okay so let's talk about when the fathers object what what usually is behind their 17:44.428 --> 18:11.196 [SPEAKER_04]: That's a little harder to trace because like I say, I've even had men that objected, but they never read the book, you know, always reminding dads, hey, it comes in an audio book if you need to, but once they actually read some, they're like, oh yeah, no, so the ones that truly object, I would say most commonly is that they were raised in a family where their own relationship with their father was seriously impeded either. 18:12.297 --> 18:28.880 [SPEAKER_04]: They're actually abusive or at least absent, and they had a very strong mother, and there's a lot of men who are seeking to be more involved with their children, but because they don't really have that strong father image, then they're really following a mother's lead. 18:29.320 --> 18:42.789 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's almost learned kind of intuition about nurturing, and so in those cases, again, ironically, it's really important for wives to talk about, well, I'm fearful if we don't do this. 18:42.849 --> 18:44.711 [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like this will be important for our children. 18:45.071 --> 18:49.314 [SPEAKER_04]: But as I mentioned, you want to tell your husband, I'm not saying that you're wrong about this. 18:49.334 --> 18:51.876 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not saying you don't know what you're doing as a husband. 18:51.936 --> 18:53.137 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm as a father. 18:53.257 --> 18:54.397 [SPEAKER_04]: I just want to talk about it. 18:54.878 --> 18:55.939 [SPEAKER_04]: It's surprising how 18:56.699 --> 19:04.424 [SPEAKER_04]: helpful it is for husband to be reminded that what I'm hearing from my wife is not that she thinks I'm a loser and idiot. 19:05.144 --> 19:11.548 [SPEAKER_04]: It is that we just differ and I want to talk this through because I'm fearful if we don't do this or whatever. 19:12.148 --> 19:19.713 [SPEAKER_04]: So it, again, it's not a matter of that these men deserve this or that if you don't do this, a wife is saying it wrong. 19:20.274 --> 19:21.174 [SPEAKER_04]: It's perfectly fun. 19:21.254 --> 19:30.981 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just almost like a way to, especially in marriage to make sure that you are doing all you can to speak your spouse's gender leg. 19:31.001 --> 19:34.263 [SPEAKER_04]: So that's a term from Deborah Tannen and linguist. 19:34.703 --> 19:45.111 [SPEAKER_04]: that helps them to hear what you're saying and not misread it as either again a wife thinking she's hearing that she's alone or a husband thinking that he's hearing that he's not respected. 19:45.692 --> 19:59.723 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what about families where there's a divorce and so we've got kids spending different amounts of time in different places and let's just say since I'm a mom I'm the mom and there's a divorce and I'm trying to really 20:00.612 --> 20:08.158 [SPEAKER_00]: continue on the path of plans emancipation, a planned emancipation, and then they go hang out at dance. 20:08.178 --> 20:17.126 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say every weekend or whenever, and anything goes that we're not following the plan and suddenly you just feel like the bad go. 20:17.146 --> 20:18.727 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like you just throw your hands up. 20:18.947 --> 20:22.931 [SPEAKER_00]: But what just about how you do that in that divorce situation, how do we work through that? 20:23.360 --> 20:37.065 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, the good news is that that typical divorce situation, you're the bad guy up through childhood because again, you're often talking about what at least feels like to the mom as a chaotic household over at dads and they get away with everything. 20:37.105 --> 20:39.306 [SPEAKER_04]: And that is more awkward with children. 20:39.706 --> 20:43.008 [SPEAKER_04]: Starting at 13 when you're really giving the message, 20:43.808 --> 20:56.012 [SPEAKER_04]: that in any objection they have will be going away in X years or at X months, that actually helps that tension if you have this other household that seems like they get away with whatever. 20:57.593 --> 21:09.437 [SPEAKER_04]: The harder part is if the other household is actually more strict, you know, sometimes this dad is married a younger woman and they're really now getting more on track with Christian principles or whatever, 21:12.058 --> 21:19.347 [SPEAKER_04]: those are the times that you really want to be careful that you don't have to defend this parent, like, well, they want what's best for you. 21:19.728 --> 21:21.730 [SPEAKER_04]: But you can certainly not add to it. 21:23.092 --> 21:30.641 [SPEAKER_04]: Certainly mention that I'm pretty sure that your dad or your mom is trying to be helpful, and I know that's really frustrating for you. 21:31.261 --> 21:39.525 [SPEAKER_04]: Especially with teenagers, you want, and we've said this before, your goal there is to encourage your teenager to find their voice with their other parent. 21:39.865 --> 21:44.567 [SPEAKER_04]: If they hate the way this other parent is doing it, you don't need to be calling and saying listen. 21:45.248 --> 21:48.349 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, she really wants more freedom like we're doing over here. 21:48.389 --> 21:49.550 [SPEAKER_04]: You need to breathe. 21:50.650 --> 21:52.091 [SPEAKER_04]: that's not helpful to your teenage. 21:52.451 --> 21:55.533 [SPEAKER_04]: You remind your teenager that look did you tell that that? 21:55.693 --> 21:58.195 [SPEAKER_04]: Did you say, I hate when we do this? 21:58.335 --> 22:00.396 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, sweetie, you're not six. 22:00.596 --> 22:05.059 [SPEAKER_04]: I think you got to do it and encourage her to speak up about her disagreements. 22:05.480 --> 22:13.685 [SPEAKER_04]: Again, it's about empowering her as a young adult and not overly taken care of everything as if they're still a child. 22:14.293 --> 22:30.489 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, what about someone that just happened on this podcast because I thought it was a diet plan and it was also That person is like wait, what do we talk out like you know what there's some good sense to this, but my kids My teen is 17 and the other ones, you know 22:31.009 --> 22:31.470 [SPEAKER_00]: 13. 22:31.490 --> 22:33.911 [SPEAKER_00]: I missed the boat on the older one. 22:34.111 --> 22:37.294 [SPEAKER_00]: Have we, have we missed the boat at a, I mean, can you jump there later? 22:37.894 --> 22:44.699 [SPEAKER_04]: I've had the message of, of plan emancipation given from a 60 something year old parent to 40 year old kids. 22:45.219 --> 22:53.946 [SPEAKER_04]: The, the bottom line message is, um, we have at any point realize that we may not have been clear with you. 22:54.566 --> 23:14.488 [SPEAKER_04]: that you are an adult and our attempts to help you all this may have very much felt to you like we think you're still a child and sorry about that, that is not our goal and then begin with whatever, you know, the freedoms really are the things you do that reinforce that you mean it. 23:15.550 --> 23:30.383 [SPEAKER_04]: But I've mentioned other episodes, I've known parents who quote, gave the freedoms, you know, like, well, apparently we're no longer, you, we're not cheating your friends, but I still hate that friend of yours. 23:30.824 --> 23:34.547 [SPEAKER_04]: And without the the message, just giving the freedom doesn't help. 23:34.787 --> 23:36.309 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's really about saying, 23:36.989 --> 23:56.894 [SPEAKER_04]: at any point, 17, 27, whatever, that we, it's recognizing that we live in this weird culture that never thinks about the stage that you are no longer needing me, you need to not need me and we're cool with that and we're out. 23:57.598 --> 23:58.438 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's good. 23:58.918 --> 24:00.399 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so let's summarize this. 24:00.499 --> 24:05.901 [SPEAKER_00]: If I'm hearing you correctly and we're breaking it down, what I understand is that marriage first always. 24:05.941 --> 24:06.581 [SPEAKER_00]: It's more important. 24:06.601 --> 24:07.041 [SPEAKER_00]: I always. 24:07.722 --> 24:18.325 [SPEAKER_00]: Then our relationship with our kids and that we need to get the same page and if the mom disagrees, then make sure she understands that she is heard. 24:18.985 --> 24:23.387 [SPEAKER_00]: And even if you disagree with a father, we want to make sure that he still feels respected. 24:24.407 --> 24:25.788 [SPEAKER_04]: Whether he deserves it or not, 24:26.408 --> 24:42.338 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, yeah, and divorce situations worry about your side of the street is what I'm hearing you can still try to you know most of the time It's not you'll know it's impossible, but you could still make sure you sure as an ex We both love this kid. 24:42.358 --> 24:44.999 [SPEAKER_04]: You sure you don't want to talk about this maybe be on the same page. 24:45.299 --> 24:49.722 [SPEAKER_04]: You can try it But yeah, I'm fully aware of that's very often not not possibly 24:50.204 --> 24:55.348 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's never too late to dive in if it feels too late. 24:55.488 --> 25:06.035 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not and at the end of the day, here's the here's the hopeful note is if you never do the feeding the mouth pattern if you never do it then what? 25:06.772 --> 25:07.393 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's funny. 25:07.573 --> 25:09.855 [SPEAKER_04]: It was tell parents, what's the worst that's going to happen? 25:09.875 --> 25:17.461 [SPEAKER_04]: You'll do the way parents have done in America for 80 years, like the way you were raised, the way your parents were raised. 25:17.521 --> 25:26.089 [SPEAKER_04]: And you know, I don't work with people that are just coming out of jail all the time and continually, I mean, it's not terrible. 25:26.889 --> 25:29.291 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just that this hopefully is more effective. 25:29.351 --> 25:29.492 [SPEAKER_04]: But, 25:29.992 --> 25:36.596 [SPEAKER_04]: We're not giving this advice because parents that don't do this are always terrible and have no relationship with the kids. 25:36.616 --> 25:38.337 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not that it's not that bad. 25:39.037 --> 25:43.300 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, let's end on a funny note of the difference between moms and dads. 25:43.340 --> 25:43.780 [SPEAKER_00]: If we might. 25:43.800 --> 25:45.121 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's send on a light note everybody. 25:45.161 --> 25:45.561 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure. 25:46.021 --> 25:58.028 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just recently moved the second one to college and I chuckled watching how moms move the kid to college versus dads and how as a mom. 25:58.148 --> 25:59.529 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I organize. 26:00.030 --> 26:06.131 [SPEAKER_00]: the laundry detergent, the dryer sheets, the, whatever, to, oh, for your son. 26:06.671 --> 26:12.232 [SPEAKER_00]: Two sets of sheets because you know he's gonna, he's gonna need to wash him and then change him, Dr. Ken, right? 26:12.392 --> 26:15.973 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we bathroom organizers underneath the seat. 26:15.993 --> 26:16.293 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you? 26:16.733 --> 26:17.593 [SPEAKER_04]: Of course you did. 26:17.914 --> 26:20.734 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and then we being leaving this child. 26:21.394 --> 26:22.994 [SPEAKER_04]: And then your son or you? 26:23.575 --> 26:25.075 [SPEAKER_00]: No, he was leaving because I wouldn't leave. 26:28.248 --> 26:29.749 [SPEAKER_04]: That's a healthy boy right there. 26:30.069 --> 26:31.471 [SPEAKER_04]: The healthy young man. 26:31.931 --> 26:36.274 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we begin to ask you a teeth and then my sweet husband comes in. 26:36.354 --> 26:40.838 [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, let's go to the grocery store and let's get you some some protein. 26:40.858 --> 26:46.422 [SPEAKER_00]: Get some pepperoni in that fridge and I brought you some power bars and then it's like a high five and a proud of you son. 26:46.442 --> 26:46.883 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go. 26:47.383 --> 26:48.704 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, that was it? 26:48.864 --> 26:49.645 [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's it. 26:49.665 --> 26:50.426 [SPEAKER_04]: That's all we do. 26:51.126 --> 26:52.247 [SPEAKER_00]: That's how we do it. 26:52.287 --> 26:54.609 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just think we're all different aren't we? 26:54.869 --> 26:56.410 [SPEAKER_04]: and having both of those is great. 26:56.571 --> 26:57.291 [SPEAKER_04]: It really is. 26:57.491 --> 26:59.593 [SPEAKER_04]: Every boy needs to have a story. 26:59.613 --> 27:03.016 [SPEAKER_04]: If you know what my mom did when I gave him the call, that's part of the fun. 27:03.036 --> 27:04.378 [SPEAKER_00]: That's part of the fun. 27:04.518 --> 27:04.698 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 27:05.218 --> 27:05.619 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 27:05.759 --> 27:06.299 [SPEAKER_00]: Good word. 27:06.540 --> 27:08.221 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for doing this with us, Dr. Ken. 27:08.782 --> 27:09.122 [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks. 27:21.944 --> 27:26.027 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's listen in on a live, unscripted second grade Challenger school class. 27:26.147 --> 27:27.509 [SPEAKER_02]: They're studying Charlottes Webb. 27:27.709 --> 27:31.672 [SPEAKER_05]: How would you describe Charlotte compared to Wilbur? 27:31.872 --> 27:34.814 [SPEAKER_05]: I would describe Charlotte as self-reliant. 27:35.075 --> 27:43.982 [SPEAKER_05]: I would rather have a self-reliant friend because then they would want to work for things that they get and they would want to earn it instead of just having it given to them. 27:44.522 --> 27:45.183 [SPEAKER_02]: Those students? 27:45.443 --> 27:45.983 [SPEAKER_02]: are seven. 27:46.364 --> 27:51.706 [SPEAKER_02]: Starting early and starting right makes a real difference, learn more at challengerschool.com. 27:52.107 --> 27:53.968 [SPEAKER_03]: Music, food, art. 27:54.508 --> 28:01.952 [SPEAKER_03]: These things define and unite us, and they come in colors that breathe culture, colors that connect us with their variety and richness. 28:02.252 --> 28:05.059 [SPEAKER_03]: You'll find that same variety in Valspar Ultra paints. 28:05.460 --> 28:08.828 [SPEAKER_03]: Great coverage and durability starting at 2998 for gallon. 28:09.109 --> 28:13.780 [SPEAKER_03]: Enjoy everyday protection against scuffs and wear with a smooth, washable finish. 28:14.081 --> 28:15.023 [SPEAKER_03]: We're made of colors. 28:15.384 --> 28:20.657 [SPEAKER_03]: And with Valspar Ultra, you can reflect that pride of culture you have inside on every wall of your home. 28:20.957 --> 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