WEBVTT 00:05.649 --> 00:07.975 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Lord of the Rings lorecast. 00:08.877 --> 00:14.391 [SPEAKER_00]: The show that explores the background of Tolkien's amazing world, from the very beginning. 00:25.805 --> 00:40.771 [SPEAKER_00]: Last week we wrapped up the episode with the elves arriving at exactly the right time in order to make sure that Frodo and Company were safe, or at least that's the intent from the author that I'm assuming was happening here. 00:41.292 --> 00:43.893 [SPEAKER_00]: You see, there are some questions that this brings up. 00:44.593 --> 00:45.093 [SPEAKER_00]: Think about it. 00:45.714 --> 00:58.024 [SPEAKER_00]: In the beginning of the Hobbit, we don't get an encounter with elves for quite a lot longer than, or at least further into the journey, then our characters are here at the beginning of the fellowship of the ring. 00:58.485 --> 00:59.726 [SPEAKER_00]: So why is that the case? 01:00.186 --> 01:11.855 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think that there are a few answers to that question, and I'm going to dig into that at the beginning of this episode before we get even deeper into who these elves are and what they're doing in the Shire right now. 01:12.395 --> 01:29.468 [SPEAKER_00]: The first thing I want you to pay attention to is the difference in the way that not only this story is written compared to the Hobbit, the Hobbit being more fairytale in this story, being a little bit more grounded right from the very beginning, and we've talked about that before, but there are some other things going on here. 01:30.168 --> 01:34.310 [SPEAKER_00]: In the story of the Hobbit, the world is safe and okay. 01:34.750 --> 01:38.092 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo has no personal need to go out on the journey. 01:38.112 --> 01:39.093 [SPEAKER_00]: He's doing fine. 01:39.413 --> 01:41.974 [SPEAKER_00]: He's happy at home, or so he believes. 01:42.014 --> 01:45.696 [SPEAKER_00]: But there is a side of his personality that is craving adventure. 01:46.256 --> 01:51.659 [SPEAKER_00]: And as that adventure unfolds, we descend into the world of fairy. 01:52.299 --> 02:13.680 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you go back and listen to the Hobbit episodes, I explain that every part of the way, every step of the way, how we are moving from the normal world, the Shire, to a world that is magical and enchanted and dangerous and mysterious, full of characters that on the surface seem very odd. 02:14.281 --> 02:30.035 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, the first time that we engage with the elves and most of the times that we engage with the elves in the Hobbit, they come across very silly or overly joyful or mysteriously magical in the situation in Merkwood. 02:30.055 --> 02:34.619 [SPEAKER_00]: They come across even kind of uncomfortably magical and mysterious. 02:35.159 --> 02:38.923 [SPEAKER_00]: especially in contrast with the parties and the dark forest and all of that. 02:39.383 --> 02:40.744 [SPEAKER_00]: Go back and listen to those episodes. 02:40.804 --> 02:42.005 [SPEAKER_00]: We discuss a lot about that. 02:42.406 --> 02:56.358 [SPEAKER_00]: My point being though, that as we navigate through the Hobbit, we slowly descend into a magical world, a place that is distinctly different than the familiar place that we are coming from, the Readers and Bilbo. 02:57.098 --> 03:01.204 [SPEAKER_00]: In the situation here in the Shire, it's the complete opposite of that. 03:01.665 --> 03:12.341 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, there are parallels with Frodo leaving on the journey, being 50 years old, going off on this adventure and all of that, but the adventure finds him before he even leaves his home. 03:13.022 --> 03:19.308 [SPEAKER_00]: The world out there is encroaching on the normal, and we see this in both directions. 03:19.708 --> 03:26.234 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, the world of fairy is both beautiful and terrifying at the same time. 03:26.755 --> 03:37.484 [SPEAKER_00]: It is full of incomprehensible evil, but is also contrasted with extreme good, and everything in between, and it's not always easy to know which thing you're engaging with when. 03:38.365 --> 03:42.467 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a place that is distinctly different from the normal world. 03:42.848 --> 03:44.909 [SPEAKER_00]: And how is that working in this scenario right here? 03:45.069 --> 03:53.153 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we already have seen the evil forces reaching out into the Shire, seeking to find Frodo and the Ring. 03:53.553 --> 03:55.194 [SPEAKER_00]: The Ring-rathes are here. 03:55.594 --> 03:57.295 [SPEAKER_00]: They are being followed. 03:57.355 --> 03:58.496 [SPEAKER_00]: They are being tracked. 03:58.976 --> 04:05.080 [SPEAKER_00]: And those ring-rathes have infringed upon the very doorstep almost of our heroes. 04:05.720 --> 04:08.502 [SPEAKER_00]: but at the same time, we have this group of valves. 04:09.022 --> 04:15.186 [SPEAKER_00]: And as we're about to find out, they're not just any group of valves, they are of the house of Finnrod. 04:15.646 --> 04:19.568 [SPEAKER_00]: We have to remember what that represents, and we'll get into it when we get to that point. 04:19.948 --> 04:26.612 [SPEAKER_00]: My point being that these are good people, these are the antithesis of the Nazgul. 04:26.992 --> 04:30.294 [SPEAKER_00]: These are elves who care about humanity. 04:30.374 --> 04:33.096 [SPEAKER_00]: They care about the future of Middle Earth, 04:34.937 --> 04:36.938 [SPEAKER_00]: They are beneficial to the party. 04:37.078 --> 04:39.080 [SPEAKER_00]: They bring them to a place of safety. 04:39.460 --> 04:47.065 [SPEAKER_00]: And all of this is happening inside the Shire, inside the world that seems so separate from everything before. 04:47.846 --> 04:51.188 [SPEAKER_00]: The world of the fairy has come to us. 04:51.688 --> 04:53.389 [SPEAKER_00]: And more importantly, to our heroes. 04:53.970 --> 04:58.473 [SPEAKER_00]: Now there's another piece of why this works in here before we get into the actual quotes from the text. 04:58.993 --> 05:13.756 [SPEAKER_00]: As I like to do, as I go through a book, especially a book that I'm more familiar with, I like to imagine what the struggles of the author would have been in each section of the book and kind of backwards figure that out by the solutions that are provided. 05:14.196 --> 05:15.836 [SPEAKER_00]: So, think about it this way. 05:16.576 --> 05:24.858 [SPEAKER_00]: If I was writing this story, or you were writing this story, and the adventures have left on their journey, and they're already being, well, almost attacked. 05:25.458 --> 05:34.647 [SPEAKER_00]: We're almost at that point by these dark creatures, by the Nazgul, and they still have a lot further to go before they reach a place of safety. 05:35.107 --> 05:38.950 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you get them to the next point in the story? 05:39.051 --> 05:44.536 [SPEAKER_00]: So the next place they need to be and safely while still being under danger and keeping it realistic. 05:45.036 --> 05:55.302 [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen that these dark writers seem to be able to track them pretty well and probably by sense of smell because they can't necessarily see them all the time because they're very good at hiding. 05:55.742 --> 06:00.105 [SPEAKER_00]: But that seems to mean that they're going to find them at some point. 06:00.265 --> 06:06.529 [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to catch up their on horses and the hobbits don't know it yet, but there's much more than just one or two of them out there. 06:06.869 --> 06:11.212 [SPEAKER_00]: And the hobbits have almost no way of protecting themselves other than continuing to hide 06:13.673 --> 06:15.435 [SPEAKER_00]: they will eventually be found. 06:15.895 --> 06:17.377 [SPEAKER_00]: This is an inevitability. 06:17.957 --> 06:23.903 [SPEAKER_00]: And so as the author you have to come up with a way of getting them further down the journey safely. 06:24.443 --> 06:33.812 [SPEAKER_00]: Now you could have had them travel further before the writer showed up, but then that would have been a lot of more empty things going on, a lot of nothing happening in the journey. 06:34.192 --> 06:36.635 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not the way that seemingly talking 06:39.117 --> 06:53.501 [SPEAKER_00]: So you have to have a solution to this, and the solution in this case is running into the elves, which is that just at the right time sort of thing, and as I described in the last episode, totally connects to the will of the Valar and all of that. 06:54.101 --> 06:56.102 [SPEAKER_00]: And it also does another thing. 06:56.722 --> 07:04.244 [SPEAKER_00]: It pays off the foreshadowing that we had about not just Frodo, and what Bilbo had taught Frodo 07:07.565 --> 07:19.573 [SPEAKER_00]: But Sam's want to meet the elves, and it sets a baseline for the other elves that we will eventually meet in the story because they're going to take a much bigger role in this story than they did the Hobbit. 07:20.034 --> 07:32.022 [SPEAKER_00]: Plus, if you're coming from the Hobbit, you might have some, I don't know, some cautious feelings about elves because of the situation in Merquid, and this gives us a sense that, well, not all the elves are necessarily like that. 07:32.482 --> 07:39.686 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure we already knew that about Rivendell and these kinds of things, but it begins to set a foundation for what we're going to see later. 07:39.726 --> 07:40.126 [SPEAKER_00]: So there you go. 07:40.146 --> 07:41.327 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the extended intro. 07:41.627 --> 07:46.589 [SPEAKER_00]: I just wanted to point that stuff out because it's important, but let's get into the nuances of the text. 07:47.050 --> 07:47.430 [SPEAKER_00]: Here we go. 08:03.135 --> 08:12.179 [SPEAKER_00]: So the dialogue here, as Frodo and Party meet Gildor and Party, is very revealing of some of the things that we need to know. 08:12.259 --> 08:15.201 [SPEAKER_00]: This section is very educational to us as readers. 08:15.961 --> 08:19.343 [SPEAKER_00]: This is indeed wonderful, they said, three hobbits in a wood at night. 08:19.463 --> 08:21.924 [SPEAKER_00]: We have not seen such a thing since Bilba went away. 08:22.344 --> 08:23.425 [SPEAKER_00]: What is the meaning of it? 08:23.925 --> 08:25.826 [SPEAKER_00]: This informs us of a few different things. 08:25.846 --> 08:27.167 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a lot of subtlety to this. 08:27.547 --> 08:35.551 [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, there hasn't been a journey of Hobbits like this since Bilbo's journey all that time ago. 08:35.951 --> 08:37.252 [SPEAKER_00]: This seems to confirm that. 08:37.272 --> 08:39.733 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we would have made that assumption anyway. 08:39.933 --> 08:44.255 [SPEAKER_00]: But it confirms that this is true based on the experience of these elves. 08:44.435 --> 08:49.137 [SPEAKER_00]: And it also confirms that this situation is abnormal. 08:49.758 --> 08:49.898 [SPEAKER_00]: And, 08:50.418 --> 08:51.158 [SPEAKER_00]: profound. 08:51.578 --> 08:57.721 [SPEAKER_00]: There's something important going on and we're getting nods to that, especially with the question here, what is the meaning of it? 08:58.421 --> 09:06.344 [SPEAKER_00]: They understood the meaning of Bilbo's journey and the dangers of smell of the dragon and getting the dwarves back their home and all of that. 09:06.765 --> 09:12.347 [SPEAKER_00]: So if this is as monumental and as rare a thing as that, then there must be a meaning here. 09:12.887 --> 09:14.408 [SPEAKER_00]: But Frodo is very guarded. 09:14.468 --> 09:14.828 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, 09:15.588 --> 09:19.653 [SPEAKER_00]: The meaning of it fair people is simply that we seem to be going the same way you are. 09:20.234 --> 09:22.917 [SPEAKER_00]: I like walking under the stars, but I would welcome your company. 09:23.517 --> 09:30.385 [SPEAKER_00]: He's guarded, he's dodging the question, and he realizes that this seems odd, but he has to give them some sort of explanation. 09:31.086 --> 09:37.991 [SPEAKER_00]: And then they say, but we have no need of other company and hobbits are so dull in kind of a silly playful way. 09:38.411 --> 09:45.376 [SPEAKER_00]: It's that teasing sort of humor, but then they say, how do you know that we go the same way as you, for you do not know whether we are going? 09:45.657 --> 09:52.962 [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, you didn't ask where we're going, so why would you be on board for just going anywhere that seems suspicious? 09:53.642 --> 09:56.645 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Frodo turns that around, it says, well, and how do you know my name? 09:57.365 --> 10:03.128 [SPEAKER_00]: and then they respond, well, we know many things, but we've seen you often before with Bilbo, though you may not have seen us. 10:04.049 --> 10:05.990 [SPEAKER_00]: This makes them feel more mysterious again. 10:06.210 --> 10:08.091 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, are these the good guys? 10:08.611 --> 10:09.972 [SPEAKER_00]: Have they been spying on them? 10:10.012 --> 10:11.393 [SPEAKER_00]: Why would they be spying on them? 10:11.873 --> 10:13.134 [SPEAKER_00]: Now we know the answer to that. 10:13.574 --> 10:17.976 [SPEAKER_00]: These elves are good people, and they're keeping kind of a tally on their friends. 10:18.396 --> 10:25.218 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo was an elf friend, and Gandalf found the shire to be important, so there must be something there. 10:25.499 --> 10:31.541 [SPEAKER_00]: They know that these are important people, and also I'm sure that they find them kind of curious. 10:32.161 --> 10:35.744 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo is the most adventurous of these hobbits who don't seem to do much of anything. 10:36.164 --> 10:38.987 [SPEAKER_00]: So that would be a curiosity to keep watch of. 10:39.467 --> 10:48.655 [SPEAKER_00]: And I get the sense that Frodo becomes a little suspicious here because Frodo again knows through education from Bilbo that not every elf is the same. 10:48.975 --> 10:51.197 [SPEAKER_00]: They all have different priorities. 10:51.237 --> 10:52.258 [SPEAKER_00]: They live in different places. 10:52.298 --> 10:54.559 [SPEAKER_00]: They have different genealogies and histories. 10:55.080 --> 10:56.561 [SPEAKER_00]: And they have different masters. 10:57.162 --> 10:59.704 [SPEAKER_00]: He asks, who are you and who is your Lord? 11:00.244 --> 11:10.219 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, that comes across a little bit awkward today because you wouldn't ask who someone's Lord is, but we wonder this question all the time, we just don't phrase it as such. 11:10.900 --> 11:12.442 [SPEAKER_00]: What company do you work for? 11:13.103 --> 11:14.224 [SPEAKER_00]: Where do you come from? 11:14.665 --> 11:16.047 [SPEAKER_00]: What nationality are you? 11:16.728 --> 11:17.989 [SPEAKER_00]: who were your ancestors? 11:18.590 --> 11:32.846 [SPEAKER_00]: By understanding the context that somebody was either growing up in or currently attached to and who is in charge of that community that they belong to, you kind of have a sense of what their priorities are and who they are. 11:33.266 --> 11:34.147 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good question. 11:35.008 --> 11:41.014 [SPEAKER_00]: Gildor responds, I am Gildor, Gildor in Glorion of the House of Finnrod. 11:41.174 --> 11:57.371 [SPEAKER_00]: Now this is very interesting because this line was written very early on in the writing of this book and it did not change even though originally at the time Finnrod actually meant Finnarfin, Finnrod and Gladriel's father. 11:57.791 --> 12:25.127 [SPEAKER_00]: but yet the name stayed the same and i'm gonna dig into the details of this in the bonus episode for this week because there's there's a bit of a uh well to fall down here but just for your understanding in this episode it's important to know that even though there are some oddities with guilders name which i'll get into the bonus episode what's important here is to know that the house of finrod is mentioned not the house of finrfin why would token do that well it's because 12:25.767 --> 12:36.761 [SPEAKER_00]: It means something to Tolkien, whether we, at the time that this book came out, would ever be able to see the greater legionarium in the, the somerillion and all of that, it meant something to him. 12:37.082 --> 12:39.325 [SPEAKER_00]: So why would he say House of Finnrod? 12:39.565 --> 12:42.849 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if we remember, if we think back to the things that Finnrod did, 12:43.550 --> 12:47.852 [SPEAKER_00]: Finnrod is the one who welcomed men into Belirion. 12:48.292 --> 12:51.913 [SPEAKER_00]: He was the most friendly of the elves towards outsiders. 12:52.553 --> 12:54.694 [SPEAKER_00]: And Hobbits are a type of man. 12:55.114 --> 13:02.577 [SPEAKER_00]: They are a very short and very different kind of man than say, condorians, or those from Rohan, or those from the East. 13:02.997 --> 13:05.538 [SPEAKER_00]: But they were of the bloodline of men. 13:06.159 --> 13:12.121 [SPEAKER_00]: This is symbolic of the elves and their friendship with mankind, including Hobbits. 13:12.621 --> 13:21.064 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get a description from Gildor that explains some of the things that would keep the fanbase curious for many years before the Somorillion came out. 13:21.644 --> 13:35.868 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, we are exiles, and most of our Kindred have long ago departed, and we too, now only Terry here a while, air we return over the great sea, but some of our kids folk dwell still in peace in Rivendell. 13:36.408 --> 13:42.631 [SPEAKER_00]: So for anyone who would be reading the Hobbit at this time, of course, that gives thoughts of Elrond and the elves that are there. 13:42.731 --> 13:46.253 [SPEAKER_00]: So now we are to associate this group with the group from Rivendell. 13:46.573 --> 13:47.793 [SPEAKER_00]: They are friendly folk. 13:48.154 --> 13:49.114 [SPEAKER_00]: They are good people. 13:49.474 --> 13:52.356 [SPEAKER_00]: And among people who would be called friends of Bilbo's. 13:52.616 --> 13:56.217 [SPEAKER_00]: So we can see them as, although they're a little bit odd, they are elves. 13:56.718 --> 13:57.418 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not bad. 13:57.738 --> 14:00.500 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is confirmed even more heavily with Guilder's question. 14:00.741 --> 14:03.243 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, come now, Frodo, tell us what you are doing. 14:03.623 --> 14:06.926 [SPEAKER_00]: For we see that there is some shadow of fear upon you. 14:07.767 --> 14:09.348 [SPEAKER_00]: Elvis can sense these things. 14:09.408 --> 14:11.289 [SPEAKER_00]: This is something that's pretty common. 14:11.690 --> 14:16.774 [SPEAKER_00]: They have insight into things that other people wouldn't necessarily know or be able to see. 14:17.194 --> 14:19.536 [SPEAKER_00]: But it also might just look that obvious. 14:19.817 --> 14:20.938 [SPEAKER_00]: That could be a thing as well. 14:21.478 --> 14:25.760 [SPEAKER_00]: And Pippin says, oh, why is people tell us about the Black Riders? 14:26.360 --> 14:34.244 [SPEAKER_00]: This is giving us a glimpse of Pippin and his wants to just do things very quickly and responding before thinking that sort of thing. 14:34.284 --> 14:35.764 [SPEAKER_00]: He does have that quality, of course. 14:36.104 --> 14:39.166 [SPEAKER_00]: And the elves seem to be aware of these Black Riders. 14:39.366 --> 14:43.868 [SPEAKER_00]: They say Black Riders, why do you ask about Black Riders in low-hushed voices? 14:44.648 --> 14:55.140 [SPEAKER_00]: And Pippin explains that there have been two that have overtaken them today, or at least one that did twice, they're not really sure, and it was only a little while ago, right as you were drawing near. 14:56.255 --> 15:02.059 [SPEAKER_00]: And the elves don't answer immediately, they start talking in their own tongue, meaning, of course, language. 15:02.540 --> 15:05.602 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Guildboard does a very Gandalf sort of thing. 15:05.722 --> 15:07.763 [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, he says, we cannot talk about that here. 15:08.103 --> 15:15.329 [SPEAKER_00]: But you better come with us and we're gonna take you on our road and we will take care of you, you're gonna lodge with us tonight and everything will be fine. 15:15.409 --> 15:16.830 [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, is what their response is. 15:17.290 --> 15:18.971 [SPEAKER_00]: Clearly, they know something is up. 15:19.211 --> 15:24.035 [SPEAKER_00]: Clearly, they know that these hobbits are in danger and that they need to stay together in order to protect them. 15:24.375 --> 15:28.137 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Pippin responds, oh, fair folk, this is good fortune beyond my hope. 15:28.617 --> 15:30.818 [SPEAKER_00]: And Sam is absolutely speechless. 15:31.478 --> 15:36.720 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Frodo says, thank you, names Guildor by his full name in Glorion. 15:37.340 --> 15:43.023 [SPEAKER_00]: And then says, in Elvin, a star shines on the hour of our meeting. 15:43.683 --> 15:54.847 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, as we've discussed, the stars are absolutely important to the elves and a star shining on the hour of their meeting as a good sign by Varda and is a common thing that elves would say to each other. 15:54.867 --> 16:02.890 [SPEAKER_00]: It's something that he would have learned from Bilbo and they find it absolutely incredible that he can speak their language. 16:02.970 --> 16:07.131 [SPEAKER_00]: Because again, Hobbits typically are not interested in outsiders. 16:12.633 --> 16:16.696 [SPEAKER_00]: even attempting to use someone's native language as seen as a compliment. 16:16.776 --> 16:18.037 [SPEAKER_00]: It's seen as them trying. 16:18.337 --> 16:27.102 [SPEAKER_00]: I know there's debates about this if you go to places like, I don't know, Paris, where oftentimes outsiders are often told, don't even try and speak our language. 16:27.303 --> 16:28.323 [SPEAKER_00]: I can speak English also. 16:28.363 --> 16:29.364 [SPEAKER_00]: Just let's just use that. 16:29.684 --> 16:30.245 [SPEAKER_00]: That's sort of thing. 16:30.525 --> 16:31.146 [SPEAKER_00]: That does happen. 16:31.467 --> 16:38.416 [SPEAKER_00]: But for probably the majority of people in situations where somebody is a foreigner, they do appreciate the attempt, right? 16:38.776 --> 16:43.683 [SPEAKER_00]: And in a teasing tone, Gildor laughs and says, be careful, friends, no secrets are speaking of secrets. 16:43.983 --> 16:45.705 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's a scholar in the ancient tongue. 16:46.226 --> 16:50.707 [SPEAKER_00]: And it all feels very light-hearted as a light-hearted kind of friendly poke at him. 16:50.727 --> 16:53.068 [SPEAKER_00]: But then he says, Bilbo was a good master. 16:53.428 --> 16:54.308 [SPEAKER_00]: Hail, El friend. 16:54.809 --> 17:00.030 [SPEAKER_00]: He invites them to travel with them and says that they'd best walk in the middle so that they do not stray. 17:00.490 --> 17:05.652 [SPEAKER_00]: They are already taking precautions to be very protective of this group as they travel. 17:06.092 --> 17:09.093 [SPEAKER_00]: But they warn that they'll get weary before they halt. 17:09.713 --> 17:13.696 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's going to be a little bit longer and into the night that they're going to have to keep walking. 17:13.776 --> 17:14.697 [SPEAKER_00]: So just be aware. 17:15.237 --> 17:16.618 [SPEAKER_00]: Fredo asks where they're going. 17:17.118 --> 17:21.742 [SPEAKER_00]: And they very specifically say, tonight we go to the woods on the hills above woodhall. 17:22.302 --> 17:24.784 [SPEAKER_00]: It is some miles, but you shall have rest at the end of it. 17:24.884 --> 17:26.665 [SPEAKER_00]: And it will shorten your journey tomorrow. 17:27.266 --> 17:30.949 [SPEAKER_00]: Adjustification, not just to keep them safe, but of future benefit. 17:31.649 --> 17:35.411 [SPEAKER_00]: And it seems like the elves already know where they're going. 17:35.791 --> 17:39.732 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, they asked the hobbits how do you know where we're going? 17:40.212 --> 17:43.994 [SPEAKER_00]: But the elves seem to be clear that they're headed in that direction. 17:44.014 --> 17:46.975 [SPEAKER_00]: And as they leave, we get the sentence which I find very interesting. 17:47.315 --> 17:51.937 [SPEAKER_00]: They now marched on again in silence and passed like shadows and faint lights. 17:52.377 --> 17:58.380 [SPEAKER_00]: For elves even more than hobbits could walk when they wished without sound or football. 17:58.980 --> 18:01.883 [SPEAKER_00]: But notice the description here's two things. 18:02.323 --> 18:06.307 [SPEAKER_00]: They passed like shadows and faint lights. 18:06.908 --> 18:14.274 [SPEAKER_00]: Why use two examples in an analogy unless some of them look like shadows and some of them seem more like faint lights. 18:15.055 --> 18:31.202 [SPEAKER_00]: and this makes sense because as we will find out the elves especially when putting on the ring appear like lights when Frodo or over the ring bear is can see into that dark world where you can more clearly see the ring rathes and things like that. 18:31.522 --> 18:33.603 [SPEAKER_00]: The elves appear bright in comparison. 18:34.283 --> 18:37.446 [SPEAKER_00]: Yet normal humans still appear like shadows. 18:37.946 --> 18:50.117 [SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, as they were traveling quietly, the Hobbits are the ones that look like shadows, the elves are the ones who looked like faint lights, or past like would be the specific quote here. 18:50.557 --> 19:01.319 [SPEAKER_00]: Then Pippin of course starts to feel sleepy, we were setting him up to be a little bit more of the comedic relief than he's been so far, and then Sam walks along Frodo's side as if he's in a dream. 19:01.799 --> 19:08.221 [SPEAKER_00]: He has this expression on his face that's both half fear and half a stonish joy. 19:08.661 --> 19:18.903 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the best situation because he gets to meet the elves and travel with them, but he also knows that he's being hunted by some terrible dark spooky-looking thing on the road. 19:19.463 --> 19:21.744 [SPEAKER_00]: So, he's kind of a mix of emotions here. 19:22.265 --> 19:26.827 [SPEAKER_00]: As they travel closer to woodhall, we get descriptions about the trees being younger and thicker. 19:27.408 --> 19:33.751 [SPEAKER_00]: And specifically, they were coming across Hazel on the rising slopes on either side. 19:34.152 --> 19:36.333 [SPEAKER_00]: The tree types are changing over time. 19:36.713 --> 19:41.456 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, Tolkien takes the time to note specifically which types of trees these are. 19:41.836 --> 19:46.599 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you look up Hazel trees, they tend to be trees or bushes in size, I think, 19:46.979 --> 19:48.600 [SPEAKER_00]: Officially they are a tree. 19:48.680 --> 19:52.743 [SPEAKER_00]: I could be wrong about that, but can be mistaken as bushes because they are so bushy. 19:52.803 --> 20:04.032 [SPEAKER_00]: They tend to have a lot of leaves and kind of these thick growths, which would aid in their ability to be unseen as they travel because they're not just walking alongside a bunch of tree trunks. 20:04.072 --> 20:08.235 [SPEAKER_00]: There's actual foliage around them with these hazel trees nearby. 20:08.615 --> 20:10.357 [SPEAKER_00]: They come out of the trees and they end up 20:11.117 --> 20:11.818 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, here's the quote. 20:12.199 --> 20:21.550 [SPEAKER_00]: On three sides, the woods pressed upon it, but eastward the ground fell steeply into the tops of the dark trees, growing at the bottom of the slope, where below their feet. 20:21.870 --> 20:29.018 [SPEAKER_00]: Beyond, the lowlands lay dim and flat under the stars, nearer at hand a few lights twinkled in the village of Woodhall. 20:29.539 --> 20:33.301 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're up on this hill like area coming out from the trees. 20:33.761 --> 20:39.144 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a beautiful night and they can see the twinkling lights of woodhall in the late evening. 20:39.204 --> 20:42.685 [SPEAKER_00]: The few hobbits who were still awake and had their candles lit. 20:42.705 --> 20:43.346 [SPEAKER_00]: That sort of thing. 20:43.806 --> 20:45.227 [SPEAKER_00]: This is where they decide to camp. 20:45.447 --> 20:46.567 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels safe. 20:46.747 --> 20:48.408 [SPEAKER_00]: They feel like they're in good company here. 20:48.508 --> 20:51.870 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, Pippin even falls asleep, pillowed on a green hillock. 20:52.250 --> 21:15.990 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get descriptions of stars and these are also interesting because one of the things I think a lot of people don't really pay much attention to is the fact that Tolkien plotted out the distances, the amount of traveling, the amount of time, the days passing with the seasons of the year and that even includes the placement of stars and constellations in the sky. 21:16.530 --> 21:28.919 [SPEAKER_00]: So here, we get this section and it says, away high in the east, swung rimmereph, the netted stars, and slowly above the mist's red, boregel rose, glowing like a jewel of fire. 21:29.399 --> 21:36.024 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, it doesn't take much to find out that rimmereph is the play it is, the cluster of stars that you can see in the night sky. 21:36.364 --> 21:44.570 [SPEAKER_00]: And boregel or boregel are not 100% sure of that pronunciation is the red giant star, often seen near the play it is on Orion, 21:45.150 --> 21:53.514 [SPEAKER_00]: Halderbaran, and even more interestingly, the section goes on and mentions Orion, and the significance here is very cool. 21:54.034 --> 22:07.521 [SPEAKER_00]: Then by some shift of airs, all the mist was drawn away like a veil, and they're leaned up as he climbed over the rim of the world, the swordsman of the sky, Menel Vagar, with his shining belt. 22:08.241 --> 22:18.526 [SPEAKER_00]: So, in our world, this is a ryan, a ryan's belt, that constellation, but in this world, it is the swordsmen of the sky, and that's what mental vagar means. 22:18.666 --> 22:33.433 [SPEAKER_00]: It translates directly to swordsmen of the sky, and many believe that this constellation is true into Rumbar, waiting until the end times to come back, and finally take vengeance on Morgoth. 22:34.053 --> 22:40.320 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's a whole other thing, and if you want to go back and listen to those episodes, be my guest because it's super cool. 22:40.721 --> 22:50.372 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's really interesting that in the third age, that among the elves, they see this constellation as representative of a human hero, to Rin to Rumbar. 22:50.892 --> 22:54.878 [SPEAKER_00]: And then in Elvin fashion, they basically say, hey, we're good. 22:55.038 --> 22:56.100 [SPEAKER_00]: We're in a safe place. 22:56.280 --> 23:06.454 [SPEAKER_00]: It's time for speech and marriage, and they set a fire, and they bring food, and it's so nice that Frodo says, well, this is good enough for a birthday party. 23:07.035 --> 23:15.458 [SPEAKER_00]: Elves really travel in style, I guess, and as they relax and as they partake of the food and drink, their perception of reality starts to kind of shift. 23:15.578 --> 23:22.660 [SPEAKER_00]: We're told that Pippin, afterwards recalls little of the food or drink, his mind was filled with the light upon the Elven faces. 23:23.100 --> 23:33.443 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember in the Hobbit, there were similar things that happened in these mysterious places, especially among the Elves, where oftentimes the world would feel like you're in some sort of waking dream. 23:34.003 --> 23:35.624 [SPEAKER_00]: The food that they're eating is delicious. 23:35.664 --> 23:38.265 [SPEAKER_00]: The fruit is sweet beyond what they're used to. 23:38.765 --> 23:40.205 [SPEAKER_00]: The draft is fragrant. 23:40.225 --> 23:47.748 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot going on here, and it feels like they've been teleported in some way into this dreamlike place. 23:48.408 --> 23:49.949 [SPEAKER_00]: Sam's perspective is interesting, too. 23:49.989 --> 23:59.192 [SPEAKER_00]: It says, Sam could never describe in words nor picture clearly to himself what he felt or thought that night, though it remained in his memory as one of the chief events of his life. 23:59.472 --> 24:05.076 [SPEAKER_00]: The nearest he ever got to it was saying, well, sir, if I could grow apples like that, I would call myself a gardener. 24:05.396 --> 24:08.158 [SPEAKER_00]: But it was the singing that went to my heart, if you know what I mean. 24:08.618 --> 24:12.401 [SPEAKER_00]: So both Pippin and Sam have been just totally overtaking with this moment. 24:12.921 --> 24:17.184 [SPEAKER_00]: Frodo is interesting because his focus becomes on the words. 24:17.264 --> 24:20.006 [SPEAKER_00]: We're told that that's where his mind was chiefly focused. 24:20.406 --> 24:28.052 [SPEAKER_00]: And even though he know, in a little of the elf speech, and he listened eagerly, that became kind of the focus of this whole situation. 24:28.432 --> 24:39.917 [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of like somebody who really enjoys learning foreign languages, taking those opportunities and that becoming, again, the main focus that the one thing you really want to do in that opportunity is to get better at that language and learn more about it. 24:40.337 --> 24:41.718 [SPEAKER_00]: And we can see that they appreciate it. 24:42.038 --> 24:46.840 [SPEAKER_00]: They thanked him in their own language and smiled at him and said, here is a jewel among Hobbits. 24:47.460 --> 24:49.961 [SPEAKER_00]: At this point, the entire situation has shifted. 24:50.322 --> 25:00.207 [SPEAKER_00]: We went from them being hunted by these dark scary people, putting that in quotes, scare quotes on horseback that are sniffing for them. 25:00.227 --> 25:02.568 [SPEAKER_00]: And they have no idea why they are like the way they are. 25:03.009 --> 25:08.492 [SPEAKER_00]: And what's going on with that, to spending a dream-like evening with elves. 25:09.032 --> 25:27.652 [SPEAKER_00]: Still in the wilderness, but safe, the world of the Faye, the world of Fari, has encroached on the Shire, whether the Shire knows it or not, in every way, in the scary, Nazgul sort of way, and in the beautiful enchanted Elven sort of way. 25:27.952 --> 25:39.097 [SPEAKER_00]: This is telling us without telling us using words that the world outside has encroached on the normal world, and putting them in scare quotes too, and the world will never be the same. 25:39.497 --> 25:50.242 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's also confirming that Frodo is a good person, that he's on a good journey, that he will be supported by other good people in the future. 25:50.842 --> 25:52.443 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get this final paragraph. 25:53.258 --> 26:03.363 [SPEAKER_00]: After a while, Pippin fell fast asleep and was lifted up and born a way to abour under the trees, where he was laid upon a soft bed and slept the rest of the night away. 26:03.903 --> 26:11.146 [SPEAKER_00]: Sam refused to leave his master when Pippin had gone, he came, and sat curled up at Frodo's feet. 26:11.866 --> 26:16.008 [SPEAKER_00]: This makes me think of a dog, he's loyal, that's what this is saying. 26:20.631 --> 26:24.956 [SPEAKER_00]: Frodo remained long awake, talking with Gildor. 26:25.437 --> 26:27.560 [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll dig into those details on the next episode. 26:43.497 --> 26:45.259 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for tuning into this episode. 26:45.279 --> 26:52.365 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope you are all having a wonderful week and thank you to our newest Patrons Patreon.com slash LOTR Lorcast if you'd like to support the show. 26:52.666 --> 26:59.432 [SPEAKER_00]: If I'm been helping you get through your work day and you want to toss me a little bit just to say thanks, you can sign up at the bottom tier and become an official patron. 26:59.732 --> 27:19.945 [SPEAKER_00]: but you can also sign up at higher tiers and get bonus episodes like this one about guild or that we're about to talk about after I do this end of the episode also you can join for patron chats which is now a thing for our highest level but welcome to Gandalf E. I hope that's your real name who joined this month and Brian G. Thank you so much for signing up. 27:20.285 --> 27:23.267 [SPEAKER_00]: It absolutely does keep the show going and I really do appreciate it. 27:23.287 --> 27:24.828 [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't do without all of your support. 27:25.009 --> 27:35.416 [SPEAKER_00]: And those of you who are leaving reviews on Apple Podcasts or nice comments on Spotify or telling your friends and family, when, I don't know, the holidays come. 27:35.456 --> 27:39.459 [SPEAKER_00]: You're hanging out over the summer or over, I don't know, Christmas break or something like that. 27:39.479 --> 27:40.920 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, hey, let's watch Lord of the Rings. 27:41.200 --> 27:42.501 [SPEAKER_00]: And people have questions about stuff. 27:42.861 --> 27:43.562 [SPEAKER_00]: Send them my way. 27:43.942 --> 27:45.343 [SPEAKER_00]: It'll answer a lot of questions for them. 27:46.003 --> 27:46.344 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, 27:46.744 --> 27:48.805 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you to our VIP patrons. 27:48.825 --> 27:51.286 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get through all the names as fast as I possibly can. 27:51.746 --> 27:55.047 [SPEAKER_00]: Folkrum, David S, Daniel Knight, we've her Copena, Richard J.T. 27:55.067 --> 27:55.487 [SPEAKER_00]: J.T. 27:55.587 --> 27:55.867 [SPEAKER_00]: A.K. 27:55.887 --> 28:03.870 [SPEAKER_00]: musical lover, Barney D, Asle Razzle, Blade of Androa, Laurie B, Norwegian Myart, Mason Weathertop, Divine Madman, Rosie Rosé, the best display. 28:03.910 --> 28:04.671 [SPEAKER_00]: Who on is my hero? 28:04.731 --> 28:05.571 [SPEAKER_00]: All Daryon is right. 28:05.951 --> 28:12.274 [SPEAKER_00]: A Varyel, Party Snacks, Artemis, Kira C, Dos S, Silverstar, Silver Hobbit, and my name is August West. 28:12.334 --> 28:14.514 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I got through all of them, and I didn't mess them up. 28:14.874 --> 28:15.935 [SPEAKER_00]: Crazy how that works. 28:16.433 --> 28:17.314 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I can do it. 28:17.374 --> 28:27.940 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, have a wonderful week and if you come across some strange elves in the woods, then find out if they're at the house of Finnrod before you decide to hang out with them because maybe they're cool guys. 28:28.460 --> 28:29.161 [SPEAKER_00]: We're maybe they're not. 28:29.761 --> 28:32.823 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I'll just be careful when you come across anybody in the woods. 28:32.863 --> 28:33.903 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, I'll see you next time. 28:34.204 --> 28:34.664 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye everybody. 28:37.895 --> 28:39.996 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to the Lord of the Rings lorecast. 28:40.637 --> 28:44.199 [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to learn more about other fantasy worlds, check out my other podcasts. 28:44.639 --> 28:48.981 [SPEAKER_00]: The Elder Scrolls lorecast, the Witcher lorecast, and more, at robotsradio.net. 28:49.442 --> 28:51.303 [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to reach out, I'd love to hear from you. 28:51.803 --> 28:58.467 [SPEAKER_00]: Send me a note on Twitter at robots underscore radio, or join our amazing community on the robots radio discord. 28:58.867 --> 29:04.610 [SPEAKER_00]: There are links in the show notes, or just search robots radio discord, or find the link on robotsradio.net. 29:04.870 --> 29:05.591 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll see you next time.