WEBVTT 00:00.718 --> 00:01.658 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Jamie Cochran. 00:01.738 --> 00:02.419 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Lake Babin. 00:02.679 --> 00:03.439 [SPEAKER_00]: Lead wind. 00:03.519 --> 00:05.220 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm extreme watershed podcast. 00:07.501 --> 00:12.703 [SPEAKER_00]: We're back with another episode of the lead wind podcast here again with Lake Babin and of course Carlos Mendez. 00:13.063 --> 00:19.946 [SPEAKER_00]: And the topic today is something that I learned at a really young age, the power of telling the truth of being an honest person. 00:20.526 --> 00:24.628 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's interesting that we're having this conversation because it seems weird to have this as a topic. 00:24.988 --> 00:26.609 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm finding more and more 00:27.289 --> 00:30.311 [SPEAKER_00]: how much people struggle with as idea of telling the truth. 00:30.392 --> 00:55.391 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about why it's so important for leaders to tell the truth, not just from a leadership perspective on how telling the truth really helps your team understand what's going on, the truth of the situation, but also as an individual leader and the value of refraining from that instinct sometime to tell a little fed, to exaggerate a little bit more than you should and telling the truth and how that compounds over time in earning you valuable leadership capital. 00:57.537 --> 01:00.939 [SPEAKER_02]: If you don't tell the truth, then trust is broken. 01:01.119 --> 01:02.520 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's a really issue. 01:02.660 --> 01:12.144 [SPEAKER_02]: And some of my talk to my kids about, if I can't trust you to actually be truthful, if the trust isn't there, then you can't allow them do anything, right? 01:12.184 --> 01:17.427 [SPEAKER_02]: Without direct oversight, without doing things for them, without holding their hand, without looking over their shoulder all the time. 01:18.207 --> 01:19.268 [SPEAKER_02]: And none of us want that. 01:19.768 --> 01:47.644 [SPEAKER_02]: We want people to trust us and so it's absolutely imperative that you build that trust and you can only do that by telling the truth And that's an obvious statement right if you're going to lie about things and are going to create Fiction things that don't actually exist and people do that right just because if you three go or they they don't want to They don't want people to think bad of them that obviously that it really's trust but sometimes leaders do this from a sense of 01:48.745 --> 01:53.747 [SPEAKER_02]: wanting to do well or wanting their team to be happy and they do what we call false cheerleading. 01:53.827 --> 01:55.267 [SPEAKER_02]: And there's one example of this. 01:55.307 --> 01:58.809 [SPEAKER_02]: There was a leader I was working with and she was a caring leader. 01:58.829 --> 01:59.749 [SPEAKER_02]: She cared about her team. 01:59.789 --> 02:01.229 [SPEAKER_02]: She wanted her team to be successful. 02:01.870 --> 02:07.271 [SPEAKER_02]: But she had this kind of bubbly personality and it was constant false cheerleading all the time. 02:07.352 --> 02:08.152 [SPEAKER_02]: And there were some things. 02:08.632 --> 02:11.353 [SPEAKER_02]: I was brought in the company to try to help them course correct. 02:11.873 --> 02:15.074 [SPEAKER_02]: because there was some things that were happening that weren't good. 02:15.234 --> 02:22.056 [SPEAKER_02]: They were missing their sales numbers, a quarter after quarter, and there were some problems that were happening inside the organization. 02:22.636 --> 02:25.176 [SPEAKER_02]: And yet this key leader in the organization was going to talk to her team. 02:25.196 --> 02:26.417 [SPEAKER_02]: And she was like, everything's great. 02:26.437 --> 02:27.417 [SPEAKER_02]: You guys are doing great. 02:27.797 --> 02:28.837 [SPEAKER_02]: You guys are doing awesome. 02:29.237 --> 02:31.178 [SPEAKER_02]: And this was kind of, it just... 02:31.718 --> 02:32.800 [SPEAKER_02]: you could tell that wasn't true. 02:33.040 --> 02:34.822 [SPEAKER_02]: Her team knew that wasn't true. 02:35.303 --> 02:44.775 [SPEAKER_02]: So she's coming in and saying saying things to them to try to make them happy to try to try to put a positive spin on things instead of actually just being truthful. 02:44.815 --> 02:46.778 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, hey guys, listen, we're not winning here. 02:46.798 --> 02:48.200 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have to do some things differently. 02:48.840 --> 02:51.082 [SPEAKER_02]: And she meant, well, she cared about the team. 02:51.422 --> 02:54.164 [SPEAKER_02]: I think she was trying to be a good leader. 02:54.705 --> 02:59.549 [SPEAKER_02]: And she felt like if her people were happier, if her people had a more positive outlook, they might do better. 03:00.089 --> 03:04.232 [SPEAKER_02]: But the reality is all it did was a road trust in her as a leader. 03:04.733 --> 03:06.714 [SPEAKER_02]: And people knew that she wasn't telling the truth. 03:06.995 --> 03:09.336 [SPEAKER_02]: She wasn't really being honest about what was happening. 03:09.837 --> 03:16.442 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you can't honestly confront problems in the organization, then how are you going to actually implement solutions to get those problems fixed? 03:17.943 --> 03:32.344 [SPEAKER_02]: the ultimate end result is that those problems never got fixed and ultimately that that entire company imploded because that leader didn't confront the problems and was always just trying to put this positive spin on things all the time. 03:32.384 --> 03:32.825 [SPEAKER_02]: So you don't 03:32.885 --> 03:33.866 [SPEAKER_02]: want to be a false cheerleader. 03:33.986 --> 03:39.692 [SPEAKER_02]: If things aren't going well, if your team's about to have to do something that's really hard, you should acknowledge it, acknowledge it. 03:39.932 --> 03:43.355 [SPEAKER_02]: You could put a positive spend on it to say, hey, listen, this is going to be really tough. 03:43.575 --> 03:43.996 [SPEAKER_02]: You know what? 03:44.476 --> 03:46.318 [SPEAKER_02]: People don't think that we can actually turn this thing around. 03:46.498 --> 03:47.219 [SPEAKER_02]: I think we can. 03:47.519 --> 03:48.119 [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think? 03:48.460 --> 03:56.968 [SPEAKER_02]: You can make it positive, but acknowledge the challenges that you're up against and talk about where you're at because otherwise you're just eroding, trusting you as a leader. 03:57.246 --> 04:05.150 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe one of the angles too that I look at it in terms of earning trust is the way you react to things when people are being truthful with you as well. 04:05.671 --> 04:08.412 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think where I truly started to see that was with my son. 04:08.492 --> 04:15.056 [SPEAKER_01]: When he was a teenager, I would always tell him, hey, I need you to tell me a truth because if you tell me a truth, we can solve this problem. 04:16.076 --> 04:24.001 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, at times, I maybe got a little more truth than I was ready for, and I had to really be careful about the way I reacted to it, right? 04:26.446 --> 04:27.447 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm breaking that trust. 04:27.487 --> 04:28.667 [SPEAKER_01]: He sees that I'm overreacting. 04:28.687 --> 04:29.808 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not going to want to share that with me. 04:30.148 --> 04:33.170 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I started realizing, oh, wait a minute, this carries it everywhere, right? 04:33.630 --> 04:34.491 [SPEAKER_01]: Same with my team. 04:34.831 --> 04:47.758 [SPEAKER_01]: If my team is delivering bad news to me, I have to really control the way that I react to it because if I'm always overreacting, and I'm emotional about it, that breaks trust too because my team's not going to trust me to share all this information with. 04:48.414 --> 04:59.879 [SPEAKER_00]: And if we react in that way, we actually create more of that defense mechanism that causes people to tell a lie when they feel trapped or they feel like I've made this huge mistake and I don't know how to get out of it. 05:00.359 --> 05:02.620 [SPEAKER_00]: And the problem is, that's what happens. 05:03.041 --> 05:03.841 [SPEAKER_00]: Something happens. 05:04.041 --> 05:05.602 [SPEAKER_00]: We're afraid of the consequences. 05:05.982 --> 05:06.982 [SPEAKER_00]: We tell a little lie. 05:07.082 --> 05:12.845 [SPEAKER_00]: And what we don't realize is the compounding effect of that because to your point, people know. 05:13.085 --> 05:13.986 [SPEAKER_00]: People figure it out. 05:14.026 --> 05:17.188 [SPEAKER_00]: At some point in time, people start to piece together. 05:17.588 --> 05:18.769 [SPEAKER_00]: These things don't make sense. 05:18.889 --> 05:20.090 [SPEAKER_00]: These things don't add up. 05:20.630 --> 05:24.513 [SPEAKER_00]: And that creates massive damage to our reputation, to our relationships. 05:24.993 --> 05:30.317 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's really difficult to get out of it when we're in this spiral of telling things that aren't true. 05:30.898 --> 05:33.359 [SPEAKER_00]: I think of a, it was actually a client that we had with you. 05:33.399 --> 05:37.883 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a client who, an individual on their team that we were working with, our point of contact. 05:39.103 --> 05:42.424 [SPEAKER_00]: was hiring and as long as it was in charge of hiring and as long front instructor. 05:42.984 --> 05:46.625 [SPEAKER_00]: And at some point in those communications, we had communicated very clearly. 05:46.765 --> 05:48.405 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're remembering that. 05:48.445 --> 05:52.666 [SPEAKER_00]: We communicated very clearly that, you know, here's our standard pricing. 05:52.786 --> 06:01.789 [SPEAKER_00]: We have this great instructor, Carlos Mendez, and somehow in the way she was communicating that with her boss, the leadership at her company thought that they were hiring Jocco, 06:03.469 --> 06:18.060 [SPEAKER_00]: to set the record straight, the pricing between Carlos and Jocca was pretty dramatic, and so there was this friction because at some point I think this individual realized they thought they were hiring Jocca and she knew it was this other guy, Carlos, who the company didn't know. 06:18.740 --> 06:26.206 [SPEAKER_00]: And at a certain point she ended up getting fired for something else and I have to imagine it was something around this issue right here, not telling the truth. 06:26.886 --> 06:34.394 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the time I got on with the president of this organization, she was mortified because we realized that this lie had now compounded over time. 06:34.434 --> 06:36.155 [SPEAKER_00]: She was so afraid of what was going to happen. 06:36.816 --> 06:42.161 [SPEAKER_00]: She had taken the contract we sent her with Carlos's name, our signature, and changed it. 06:42.742 --> 06:45.924 [SPEAKER_00]: to read Jaco and had her boss signed for Jaco. 06:46.305 --> 06:52.669 [SPEAKER_00]: So we've got now a client of ours who's thinking they're hiring in Jaco, they've marketed for Jaco, they're anticipating Jaco. 06:53.069 --> 07:02.536 [SPEAKER_00]: And we've got to have this conversation now of, hey, I think this contract was sort of forged in this to reflect Jaco, that's now what we have on our side, which was a difficult conversation. 07:03.016 --> 07:11.083 [SPEAKER_00]: Thankfully, that company came to the table with a ton of ownership, and we were able to work out a really great deal to make this work and And make this happen for them. 07:11.683 --> 07:21.331 [SPEAKER_00]: But I always I always got stuck on this this gal who started down this path of telling a little bit of a lie or maybe Just maybe it was just a miscommunication. 07:21.411 --> 07:31.139 [SPEAKER_00]: She didn't realize that she hadn't, you know, clearly identified that Carlos was the instructor But at some point decided to stick there to be so afraid of the truth 07:32.100 --> 07:35.161 [SPEAKER_00]: that we just kept up with the lie and what's at the end of that? 07:35.201 --> 07:40.802 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't understand what she thought was going to happen at the end of this when clearly Jacob wasn't going to be showing up at their event. 07:41.522 --> 07:54.245 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that to me helps me capture how difficult this is as human beings and how much our nature wants to protect ourselves that will continue down a path of lies, even knowing that the end result is not going to be good. 07:54.265 --> 07:58.786 [SPEAKER_00]: And how much stress and anxiety that that caused her in the months leading up to that knowing that 08:02.167 --> 08:07.092 [SPEAKER_00]: And much more difficult to solve at that point than how you just take an ownership at the very beginning. 08:07.953 --> 08:11.055 [SPEAKER_02]: And what's wild about that is Carlos is an outstanding leadership instructor. 08:11.095 --> 08:16.400 [SPEAKER_02]: He gets amazing feedback from, you know, from the class that he gets a chance to work with, who bring him back in. 08:16.861 --> 08:19.763 [SPEAKER_02]: And so he would have been so easy for her just to say, hey, listen. 08:21.315 --> 08:21.956 [SPEAKER_02]: my mistake. 08:22.476 --> 08:24.378 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry if you thought that we were bringing Jocquo in. 08:24.898 --> 08:31.545 [SPEAKER_02]: Jocquo is not available or he's his price points beyond what we can afford, but I've got this great instructor and here's Carlos Mendez. 08:31.585 --> 08:32.525 [SPEAKER_02]: Here's what he brings to the table. 08:32.786 --> 08:35.768 [SPEAKER_02]: Here's some plant feedback that we've seen and he would have done an outstanding job for them. 08:35.808 --> 08:37.670 [SPEAKER_00]: So did you do that engagement? 08:37.910 --> 08:38.231 [SPEAKER_02]: I did it. 08:38.571 --> 08:39.111 [SPEAKER_00]: You did it. 08:39.152 --> 08:39.612 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. 08:39.652 --> 08:41.173 [SPEAKER_00]: I was trying to remember how we solved it. 08:41.213 --> 08:41.654 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. 08:41.694 --> 08:44.216 [SPEAKER_00]: We couldn't get Jocquo there and you covered down. 08:44.276 --> 08:44.697 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. 08:45.427 --> 09:02.144 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and so, but all this, I mean, they had to come back to the, so the lady gets fired, they have to come back and say, hey, I'm sorry that we, you know, we had these documents forges or any way you can help us out, they've, they put all this effort into marketing it, and it's all that could have been prevented by just simply taking ownership of the problem. 09:02.465 --> 09:06.329 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think what people miss is that even when you make mistakes, 09:07.658 --> 09:09.599 [SPEAKER_02]: through ownership, you can build trust. 09:10.039 --> 09:14.061 [SPEAKER_02]: You can build trust even when you make mistakes if you take extreme ownership. 09:14.961 --> 09:17.142 [SPEAKER_02]: And we've got numerous examples of this. 09:17.462 --> 09:20.584 [SPEAKER_02]: Trust is built on extreme ownership even through mistakes. 09:21.124 --> 09:23.145 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is something that I think escapes a lot of people. 09:23.945 --> 09:28.910 [SPEAKER_02]: If you just simply own it and then say, here's where I'm going to do to fix it going forward. 09:29.290 --> 09:34.234 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, now the people around you have confidence that you're taking action to prevent that from happening again. 09:34.394 --> 09:44.604 [SPEAKER_02]: Whereas if you don't take ownership, if you lie about it, if you invent some excuse or point fingers to cast blame, then now everyone knows that that's very likely to happen again because you're going to do it again. 09:45.224 --> 09:55.627 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think people miss this idea that look, you're worried about eroding trust and other people if you admit a mistake and yet if you take ownership of that mistake, you can build trust even through mistakes. 09:56.688 --> 09:58.908 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll pull the thread on that even a little bit more. 09:58.948 --> 10:13.853 [SPEAKER_01]: I got a question and interesting question from a client I was on site with and they said, you know, if I'm taking extreme ownership of all these mistakes that I'm making and I'm making the same mistake over and over again at some point they're going to lose trust and it doesn't matter how much ownership I take. 10:14.353 --> 10:31.040 [SPEAKER_01]: and that's when I realized oh man I haven't done a good job of explaining that the extreme ownership isn't just simply saying hey team that was my fault extreme ownership is is finding the solution to that problem and so I told him hey listen if we're making the same mistake over and over again there's a problem there because we haven't sought out the solution 10:31.580 --> 10:41.866 [SPEAKER_01]: So I really want to emphasize that that's what actually builds the trust is not only saying hey you know what that was my mistake or this is what went wrong But then also forging a path forward. 10:42.186 --> 10:44.967 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, this is what we could do forward to try to fix this problem. 10:44.987 --> 10:45.988 [SPEAKER_01]: Make sure it doesn't happen again 10:46.772 --> 10:47.673 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a great point. 10:47.693 --> 10:49.934 [SPEAKER_02]: And we often talk about what extreme ownership is not. 10:50.094 --> 10:54.537 [SPEAKER_02]: And it is not just saying, my bad, or I'm sorry, or I screwed that up. 10:55.017 --> 11:00.981 [SPEAKER_02]: You actually have to recognize the impact of the team and the implement a solution to fix that problem going forward. 11:01.321 --> 11:01.902 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a great point. 11:02.300 --> 11:02.520 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 11:02.681 --> 11:08.607 [SPEAKER_00]: And the question I have is, what do people think again happens at the end of that when we're not telling the truth? 11:09.448 --> 11:20.481 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels in the moment like we have to put up that defensive wall when in reality what what allows us to get to the next step of solving it is when you show up and you say, hey, life, I screwed up. 11:20.861 --> 11:21.722 [SPEAKER_00]: I made a mistake. 11:22.303 --> 11:22.863 [SPEAKER_00]: That actually, 11:23.564 --> 11:27.469 [SPEAKER_00]: puts us on level playing field where we can now work through a solution. 11:27.509 --> 11:32.995 [SPEAKER_00]: And I can't tell you how many times in my career at echelon front that I've had to come to you and Jacqueline said, hey, I screwed something up. 11:33.075 --> 11:37.540 [SPEAKER_00]: Jacqueline likes to remind me of some of the free gigs that he's done as a result of my mistakes. 11:38.041 --> 11:39.342 [SPEAKER_00]: But the difference was, is that 11:40.003 --> 11:55.159 [SPEAKER_00]: trying to lie, trying to hide, trying to overth the truth only leads to way worse outcomes and consequences that if you just show up with that confidence and knowing that, hey, I'm going to tell the truth right now. 11:55.560 --> 11:58.283 [SPEAKER_00]: Despite the fact that this is hard, despite the fact that I made a 11:58.823 --> 12:05.126 [SPEAKER_00]: I messed up despite the fact that I might get fired or I might there might be a consequence in my life that I have to suffer from this. 12:05.526 --> 12:15.151 [SPEAKER_00]: That is far better in that moment than thinking that we can hide and shield our way from the actual consequences which are way worse at the end of that of that thread that we keep pulling. 12:15.231 --> 12:21.174 [SPEAKER_00]: So telling the truth up front that ownership piece right up front is actually what allows us to move towards solving a problem. 12:21.594 --> 12:36.950 [SPEAKER_02]: And the example you gave of that client who was given Carlos, but one of Jaco is a great example of that, because they initially said, no, we have Jaco and here it is on the contract, even though the contract had been altered and they pushed back and they were called. 12:37.010 --> 12:37.810 [SPEAKER_02]: It was a bunch of friction. 12:37.830 --> 12:40.133 [SPEAKER_02]: They're attitude of like, no, this is your fault. 12:40.593 --> 12:43.356 [SPEAKER_02]: This isn't my fault, did not make us want to help them. 12:43.756 --> 12:53.024 [SPEAKER_02]: And yet when they recognize what actually had happened and they realized that that someone on their team had actually altered the contract to re-joccle They took ownership of that. 12:53.044 --> 12:53.845 [SPEAKER_02]: They reached out to you. 12:54.286 --> 12:57.088 [SPEAKER_02]: You called me and talked to me about this and said hey, what can we do? 12:57.108 --> 12:58.810 [SPEAKER_02]: They can market at this event at Jockelcoming. 12:59.170 --> 13:02.433 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you as the other co-author, extrem ownership, could you go do this? 13:03.234 --> 13:06.618 [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, sure, let's make it happen because they took ownership of the problem. 13:06.638 --> 13:11.925 [SPEAKER_02]: So this is just one example of you can be build trust through ownership. 13:12.445 --> 13:14.568 [SPEAKER_02]: When you recognize it, like, okay, we screwed this up. 13:14.588 --> 13:16.270 [SPEAKER_02]: Here's what we're going to do to fix this going forward. 13:16.290 --> 13:17.732 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to make sure this doesn't happen again. 13:18.413 --> 13:21.195 [SPEAKER_02]: People actually want to, they want to trust you. 13:21.255 --> 13:22.416 [SPEAKER_02]: They want to give you more trust. 13:22.456 --> 13:23.397 [SPEAKER_02]: And you actually have to do it. 13:23.457 --> 13:25.619 [SPEAKER_02]: You can't just make it lip service. 13:25.639 --> 13:26.759 [SPEAKER_02]: And I talked to my kids about this. 13:27.120 --> 13:28.301 [SPEAKER_02]: It cannot just be lip service. 13:28.321 --> 13:31.583 [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, hey, Dad, next time I'm going to make sure that I do this. 13:31.623 --> 13:32.484 [SPEAKER_02]: And then they don't do it. 13:33.064 --> 13:34.786 [SPEAKER_02]: Then trust is going to erode. 13:34.806 --> 13:37.828 [SPEAKER_02]: You actually have to make sure the problem gets solved. 13:37.848 --> 13:40.490 [SPEAKER_02]: You have to implement a solution to prevent those problems from happening going forward. 13:40.910 --> 13:42.972 [SPEAKER_02]: But if you do that, you will absolutely build trust. 13:43.192 --> 13:48.834 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I tell my team, and I tell those to my kids as well, there are a lot of mistakes that I can tolerate. 13:49.034 --> 13:50.635 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of mistakes that I can tolerate. 13:50.655 --> 13:55.817 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I remind my team all the time, every mistake you're going to make here on our front, I promise you, I've made it before. 13:56.197 --> 13:59.558 [SPEAKER_00]: I've made it in my first year, my second year, my tenth year, my 13th year. 13:59.938 --> 14:00.979 [SPEAKER_00]: I have made these mistakes. 14:01.339 --> 14:05.660 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of those mistakes that I can tolerate that are teachable and trainable that we can work through. 14:06.181 --> 14:09.082 [SPEAKER_00]: What I can't tolerate is you're not being truthful. 14:12.963 --> 14:15.384 [SPEAKER_00]: is critical to our success as an organization. 14:15.424 --> 14:25.687 [SPEAKER_00]: If I can't trust you to tell me the truth, if I can't trust you to take ownership when you make a mistake, that makes it very difficult to find a path forward where we can work together to solve this problem. 14:26.227 --> 14:38.871 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's something we've been talking about a little bit more with clients lately around this idea of covering move, which is the first law of combat we teach, which is anchored in the strength of our relationships, our ability to properly implement cover and move and work together as a team. 14:39.371 --> 14:42.052 [SPEAKER_00]: And the idea being is that Carlos and I have were on a team, 14:42.772 --> 14:51.998 [SPEAKER_00]: And we have a little bit of a relationship, but maybe we don't know each other that well we haven't built in that trust or maybe he's done something that has created a little bit of that mistrust in our relationship. 14:52.778 --> 14:54.199 [SPEAKER_00]: He's kind of likely cover for me. 14:54.259 --> 14:55.020 [SPEAKER_00]: He's my teammate. 14:55.060 --> 14:56.161 [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to do his job. 14:56.201 --> 14:59.643 [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to do what he is asked to do as part of his role in the company. 14:59.983 --> 15:03.425 [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to lay down that cover fire and provide cover for me to move. 15:03.786 --> 15:10.150 [SPEAKER_00]: But the reality is if we don't have that trust or there's been something in our past relationship that has created that little sense of distrust. 15:10.790 --> 15:12.372 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm constantly looking over my shoulder. 15:12.812 --> 15:15.255 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not able to move with speed and efficiency. 15:15.655 --> 15:20.701 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not able to move together as a team, because even if he's doing his job, I'm looking over my shoulder. 15:20.761 --> 15:21.521 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm double checking. 15:21.561 --> 15:22.342 [SPEAKER_00]: Does he got my back? 15:22.963 --> 15:24.344 [SPEAKER_00]: Am I sure that he's covering for me? 15:26.006 --> 15:32.133 [SPEAKER_00]: That element of trust is so critical in relationships and so critical as a foundation of how a team works together. 15:32.955 --> 15:44.197 [SPEAKER_02]: I think one of the things that really erodes that trust as well is when you put yourself before the team, or the mission, and that's someone that definitely erodes trust. 15:44.257 --> 15:47.317 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a problem that people can see it. 15:47.397 --> 15:51.118 [SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of people think they might be able to get away with that, but people certainly can see that. 15:51.218 --> 16:01.720 [SPEAKER_02]: And so sometimes it's just a misperception that people might have if you do something that even if it wasn't intended that way, if other people perceive it that way, that becomes a problem as well. 16:02.700 --> 16:04.782 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's something you need to be very cautious of. 16:05.202 --> 16:19.611 [SPEAKER_02]: If there's an opportunity to put the team in the mission first to share resources with somebody us on the team to reach out to others and provide some guidance or feedback or a lesson learn from something that you must say that you made, that could help them in some way. 16:19.931 --> 16:26.015 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a great way that you could build trust across the teams and that people can say hey, you're a team player and you're somebody that puts the team in the mission first. 16:26.215 --> 16:28.837 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think a couple of other things that we could do to add that trust as well. 16:28.877 --> 16:33.801 [SPEAKER_01]: Jocco talks about this all the time and I say to my workshops, people ask me, you know, how do I build trust? 16:34.222 --> 16:39.566 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, besides telling the truth and doing all the things that we've talked about, I always say, be good at your job. 16:40.347 --> 16:47.953 [SPEAKER_01]: Be good at your job as simple as it sounds, be good at your job because it's something that you have control over and when you're good at your job, you start to build that trust. 16:48.374 --> 16:50.535 [SPEAKER_01]: Next thing I talk about is pick your battles. 16:51.376 --> 16:52.037 [SPEAKER_01]: Pick your battles. 16:52.097 --> 17:03.745 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of times our ego wants us to push back on every single little thing, but every time you push back on every single little thing, you're taking a little bit out every single time from that leadership capital bank account, right? 17:03.765 --> 17:06.587 [SPEAKER_01]: And you start to a road that relationship, you start to a road that trust. 17:07.792 --> 17:15.594 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think sometimes people's instinct to wanna fabricate the truth or hide from the truth a little bit is self-preservation. 17:16.054 --> 17:20.335 [SPEAKER_00]: And we think that's the path to getting to what, where we need to be. 17:20.375 --> 17:22.735 [SPEAKER_00]: We think that we can get past it, we think we can move on. 17:23.196 --> 17:27.657 [SPEAKER_00]: The reality is that those things, again, they start to compound and become part of your reputation. 17:27.677 --> 17:31.978 [SPEAKER_00]: And you don't wanna be someone on the team where people go, man, those two things don't really make sense. 17:31.998 --> 17:35.038 [SPEAKER_00]: Or that I'm not sure that I trust what this person is telling me is true. 17:37.879 --> 17:38.919 [SPEAKER_00]: I just think about people. 17:39.379 --> 17:44.680 [SPEAKER_00]: People are a lot more gracious than we like to give them credit for, and it's a lot more powerful when I come. 17:44.960 --> 17:50.942 [SPEAKER_00]: Not with excuses, not with a little bit of lies to hide what's really going on, but I say, hey, I screwed this up. 17:51.002 --> 17:51.742 [SPEAKER_00]: I made a mistake. 17:51.782 --> 18:04.244 [SPEAKER_00]: People are a lot more willing to give us some grace in those situations than when we try to fabricate a story for why we didn't do something or we constantly have these excuses that sometimes are valid and sometimes 18:07.765 --> 18:12.850 [SPEAKER_00]: leeway in this relationship over time those things erode and our ability to build relationships at all. 18:13.330 --> 18:15.692 [SPEAKER_02]: Extreme ownership is humbling but liberating. 18:16.533 --> 18:18.334 [SPEAKER_02]: It's humbling because it's all your fault. 18:19.035 --> 18:24.079 [SPEAKER_02]: And you got to take ownership of everything in your world, everything in the impact your mission. 18:24.439 --> 18:27.442 [SPEAKER_02]: And that stings your ego, it hurts your ego to do that. 18:28.003 --> 18:30.525 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's also liberating because everybody makes mistakes. 18:31.005 --> 18:32.546 [SPEAKER_02]: Every single one of us has made mistakes. 18:32.786 --> 18:34.047 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to continue to make mistakes. 18:34.467 --> 18:35.348 [SPEAKER_02]: None of us are perfect. 18:35.368 --> 18:36.308 [SPEAKER_02]: We're all human beings. 18:36.749 --> 18:37.949 [SPEAKER_02]: We all have strengths and weaknesses. 18:37.969 --> 18:40.011 [SPEAKER_02]: We're all flawed in some capacity. 18:40.671 --> 18:44.593 [SPEAKER_02]: And so all you have to do is admit those mistakes. 18:44.613 --> 18:45.714 [SPEAKER_02]: Take ownership of the mistakes. 18:45.994 --> 18:48.276 [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone in a solution going forward to fix those mistakes. 18:48.516 --> 18:51.277 [SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes we get leaders that say, well, hey, I made this mistake. 18:51.838 --> 18:53.279 [SPEAKER_02]: How do I actually go back to my team? 18:53.379 --> 18:55.440 [SPEAKER_02]: And how could I possibly build trust? 18:56.281 --> 18:58.062 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's crazy that someone can leave. 18:59.489 --> 19:03.590 [SPEAKER_02]: I just had this conversation at our two-day leadership conference, extreme ownership mustard. 19:03.930 --> 19:06.251 [SPEAKER_02]: How do I go back and rebuild trust with my team? 19:06.851 --> 19:07.491 [SPEAKER_02]: It's real simple. 19:07.551 --> 19:09.092 [SPEAKER_02]: It's called extreme ownership. 19:09.172 --> 19:10.952 [SPEAKER_02]: I go back and say, I screwed this up. 19:11.713 --> 19:12.273 [SPEAKER_02]: Here's what I did. 19:12.913 --> 19:13.473 [SPEAKER_02]: Here's what I did. 19:13.513 --> 19:14.613 [SPEAKER_02]: Here's that impact in the team. 19:15.313 --> 19:16.154 [SPEAKER_02]: This is my fault. 19:16.214 --> 19:19.375 [SPEAKER_02]: And here's what I'm going to do to fix it to make sure that doesn't happen again. 19:19.835 --> 19:20.615 [SPEAKER_02]: This is what you do. 19:20.635 --> 19:23.136 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's how you rebuild trust through extreme ownership. 19:23.156 --> 19:26.717 [SPEAKER_02]: And one example of this, we work with a client recently 19:28.057 --> 19:47.220 [SPEAKER_02]: We had a leader that came to us from this client company that said they had an underperformer that was not completing some of their key tasks and they were missing their KPIs and every time they had any excuse for why this was happening as they started to dig into it, realize that a lot of those excuses were simply fabricated. 19:47.961 --> 19:50.302 [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought, what a strange thing. 19:50.562 --> 19:58.946 [SPEAKER_02]: What a strange thing, because I don't know why this person did that, but it seemed that it was probably just because they didn't want to experience the consequences. 19:58.966 --> 20:00.587 [SPEAKER_02]: They didn't want people to lose trust in them. 20:00.767 --> 20:02.728 [SPEAKER_02]: Their ego wouldn't accept that they were making mistakes. 20:03.468 --> 20:06.949 [SPEAKER_02]: Or their ego simply wouldn't accept that they couldn't perform the job to task. 20:07.350 --> 20:08.630 [SPEAKER_02]: And so they had to make excuses. 20:08.950 --> 20:13.752 [SPEAKER_02]: But either way, this person ultimately lost their job simply because they made 20:17.294 --> 20:17.954 [SPEAKER_02]: didn't exist. 20:17.974 --> 20:19.375 [SPEAKER_02]: They fabricated the excuse. 20:19.975 --> 20:28.177 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just a sad example of a lack of a term ownership when trust is eroded to a point where the team can't actually trust you to get the job done. 20:28.597 --> 20:34.539 [SPEAKER_02]: And now you're telling them that you're going to do some things differently to get that job done, but they don't actually trust you because that trust has been burned. 20:34.619 --> 20:35.599 [SPEAKER_02]: Trust has been violated. 20:37.039 --> 20:40.460 [SPEAKER_02]: And once you've lost that trust, it's incredibly difficult to rebuild. 20:40.680 --> 20:42.961 [SPEAKER_01]: So in the example that you were giving late about that client, 20:46.562 --> 20:54.307 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's important to discuss as well, and this is actually something I tell my son, I'm like, hey, listen, telling the truth is not going to exonerate you from the consequences. 20:54.768 --> 21:07.156 [SPEAKER_01]: There will still be consequences, but what it allows you to do is it allows you to deal with those consequences in a much better manner because you haven't strained the relationships in that scenario. 21:07.697 --> 21:08.978 [SPEAKER_01]: So if I don't tell the truth, 21:09.738 --> 21:19.624 [SPEAKER_01]: I strain those relationships, the trust is gone, finding a path forward is much more difficult as opposed to, hey, I told the truth, they're going to be some consequences for it, right? 21:19.824 --> 21:26.267 [SPEAKER_01]: But I haven't strained, I haven't ruined those relationships so we can find a path forward after the fact. 21:26.868 --> 21:28.929 [SPEAKER_01]: But that doesn't mean there aren't going to be some consequences. 21:29.240 --> 21:33.882 [SPEAKER_00]: That's one of the biggest barriers we teach to extreme ownership is the consequences piece. 21:34.182 --> 21:39.403 [SPEAKER_00]: That is what keeps people from taking ownership because they think the consequences are there that they're going to get in trouble. 21:40.144 --> 21:42.844 [SPEAKER_00]: I say the same thing to clients that I talked to all the time. 21:43.024 --> 21:45.665 [SPEAKER_00]: Ownership does not absolve you of consequences. 21:45.945 --> 21:53.548 [SPEAKER_00]: What I do know is that when you take ownership immediately when situations arise, you're in a better position to mitigate those consequences. 21:53.928 --> 21:55.088 [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't mean that they go away. 21:55.148 --> 21:59.870 [SPEAKER_00]: There's consequences for the decisions and choices that we make as leaders is just the fact of life. 22:00.450 --> 22:08.313 [SPEAKER_00]: But what allows us to move through those consequences or in some cases at least mitigate them is when we take ownership right away, when we tell the truth. 22:09.273 --> 22:11.314 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that that's one of the biggest barriers people face. 22:11.354 --> 22:22.878 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's really difficult to overcome the fact that when we shield away from those consequences, we make those excuses, we tell those lies, we fabricate information, we are actually creating a much worse scenario for ourselves down the road. 22:23.344 --> 22:46.885 [SPEAKER_02]: no question and I think this is applies when you talk about being truthful, it applies when you talk about taking ownership of states, it also applies just when you recognize that the people around you on your team are watching you, your family, your kids and your spouse, your parents and your siblings, the people on your team at work, the people in your community, I think you can build trust when you 22:47.585 --> 23:06.642 [SPEAKER_02]: Remain calm, focus on the things that you need to focus on when you don't get spun up about stuff When you don't let your emotions actually take control, we don't lose your your head and lose your temper These are all ways that we can cut we can build trust when people observe that even in the smallest things They start to build trust in you and that means they're gonna trust you in the bigger things 23:06.842 --> 23:10.924 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, when you do well in the smaller things, then they can trust you in the bigger things. 23:11.164 --> 23:14.286 [SPEAKER_02]: As you said, Carlos, one of the best things that you can do is perform, right? 23:14.326 --> 23:15.547 [SPEAKER_02]: Is actually do well. 23:15.847 --> 23:18.048 [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes we see leaders that are frustrated. 23:18.068 --> 23:18.869 [SPEAKER_02]: They're not given more. 23:18.889 --> 23:20.070 [SPEAKER_02]: They want more responsibility. 23:20.450 --> 23:26.313 [SPEAKER_02]: And yet you look at like some of the most basic duties that they're actually failing on, they're not delivering on. 23:26.573 --> 23:29.675 [SPEAKER_02]: Are they're turning in a product that's kind of lackluster, right? 23:29.715 --> 23:34.578 [SPEAKER_02]: Or like, there's a lot of work to actually be done or someone actually going and edit their work, 23:34.978 --> 23:37.921 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, score some things away, because there wasn't a lot of attention to detail. 23:38.362 --> 23:41.986 [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, people are going to trust you in the bigger things if you can't get the smaller things, right? 23:42.006 --> 23:55.260 [SPEAKER_02]: So, realize that people around you up, down, across the channel, command, they're watching you all the time, and that trust, as either being eroded, are you building trust through your performance, to actually out your carrier self, and through how you tell the truth. 23:56.542 --> 24:01.586 [SPEAKER_00]: And that leads us to our immediate action trial for the week, which is to lean into this idea of truth. 24:02.126 --> 24:06.369 [SPEAKER_00]: Have one conversation this week where you lean into truth over comfort. 24:06.429 --> 24:15.336 [SPEAKER_00]: Where are you finding yourselves maybe, you know, creating a little fabrication when really what you need is the ownership piece and taking extreme ownership of that problem. 24:15.476 --> 24:16.977 [SPEAKER_02]: Think about where you're making excuses. 24:17.177 --> 24:19.819 [SPEAKER_02]: Think about where you're trying to justify 24:20.760 --> 24:31.290 [SPEAKER_02]: poor performance, or poor behavior, something that you know shouldn't be justified, but you're just trying to come up when they're used because if feed your ego, or you think it's going to leave you at your consequences, don't do that. 24:31.590 --> 24:35.434 [SPEAKER_02]: Take ownership of it, be honest with yourself, be honest with those around you. 24:35.795 --> 24:44.403 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you do that, you can build greater trust with your team, with your family, in your community, in every aspect of your life, and you can lead and win.