[SPEAKER_00]: We are back with another episode of Surviving the fandom.
[SPEAKER_00]: My name is Tagwith and I have a very special guest with us today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another specialist with us, McKenna, McKenna, how are you?
[SPEAKER_01]: I am fantastic, excited to talk more survivor as always.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm happy to be here with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love getting to know a little bit more about like my co-hosts and why they love, you know, survivor so much and what got them into the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as always, I'll just start what got you into survivor, how long have you been watching and and why do you have this obsession like I do?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, great question, great question.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like if anybody knows me, they're sick of hearing me say this, but watch Stritcher Tap on Biggest Looser, then saw him, then was like, all right, what the heck is survivor?
[SPEAKER_01]: Started watching from Borneo.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I was in the off season of Cow Wrong and Millennials versus Gen X.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Millennials versus Gen X was my first season live and what a great first season to have as your first live season.
[SPEAKER_01]: no new players or no returning players just you know straight up survivor and it was great and I was hooked from Borneo surprisingly and it was like all right I got a I got a binge and I have
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, once I start really liking a TV show, I start deep diving, you know, go on on YouTube, find interviews, you know, the whole nine yards.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it led to me finding the specialists as the, I loved their fan perspective on the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I really got into the specialist during
[SPEAKER_01]: game changers um and started like hardcore listening then and then you know the the rest is history you just become a very persistent fan and you want to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, Borneo, you watched Borneo obviously like many years after it aired What was the thing that really like hooked you was it just like the people was it jet like what about the show?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, really kind of got you into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it because you knew who Richard Hatch was already?
[SPEAKER_01]: So my mom had watched survivor while airing, but never, like, it wasn't a household staple.
[SPEAKER_01]: She fell off of it at some point.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even, I remember, like, one episode being on and then getting a tree mail, but like, nothing to be like, oh, yeah, I remember this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she was like, oh, you're watching that, like, I love Boston Rob.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was just like, I don't know who that is yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just kept watching, and it was like, all right, this is fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the way, obviously, Borneo, you're not gonna get much of a strategy or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I really loved how the characters interacted with each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, Rudy is just a gem of a human.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he really hooks you in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, yeah, going forward, it just felt like a completionist kind of thing, too, of like, I got to finish everything,
[SPEAKER_01]: Ellen love with everybody, you know, throughout watching all the seasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, this is a very silly, but did you know the lore of Robin Amber when you got to all stars or was this new, like, because when I watched, I also did not know the lore of Robin Amber.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, like, when the proposal came, I went, why is going up like, what is happening?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought I did it deep dive about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I watched everything fresh like nothing was really spoiled for me like I was I thought I was unique with like in poverty like this is how it like outside of the survivor I was and I didn't really find anybody until
[SPEAKER_01]: heroes, healers, hustlers when I went to Andria's people now events.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I found some people that I could actually talk strategy with, not just be like, these people are fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I could actually like deep dive within the community with some of the friends that I had made there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then during
[SPEAKER_01]: the Russell Hanspatrian group was doing an org with fair play.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was their first season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then their second season it went to the specialist first heritage and that's where I met like the majority of my wedding party, my wife like through survivor is like my entire life
[SPEAKER_01]: is where I met like John who I podcasted with like everybody you know in my current life was all like rooted in this one org.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh that I hear that story so many times of like you know the survivor like like fandom obviously there are casual viewers of the show and and and that will always but like the the people who love the show like we do
[SPEAKER_00]: has connected people so many ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know players who have met their partners because they were fans and they met via that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, I mean, many of my friends are made through survivor, whether it's live watch parties online, whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it about the show that you think like connects people so strongly?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really crazy, but I think it has to be everybody can have an opinion and you can be like, oh, that's wrong, but it's like it's still their opinion on things and it opens a lot of discussion and discourse because there's so many different aspects to the game, the social the strategic, the physical, the game creation.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's it brings a lot of people together because
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can, and also, even if you repeat one, it's kind of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could maybe change your opinion on something based on, you know, what somebody else says.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's really fun talking about survivor and then, you know, justifying.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, uh,
[SPEAKER_01]: After we became friends, John, myself and two other of our friends through this org, we decided to rank every player in survivor history has one does through 40 so then just the discussions of like
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this really terrible player better than this really terrible player?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, well, they brought beef jerky in so bad strategy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like the discussions that you can have between like bad players versus good players versus, you know, middleing players and trying to, you know, decide between that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like there's always, it's always a fun conversation no matter
[SPEAKER_01]: creates debates and conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think survivor is just some of the perfect topics, I guess if you know what you're talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 100%.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also think like, and I've said as many times before, but I think one of the beautiful things about
[SPEAKER_00]: like getting to talk to survivor fans as you don't you don't have to explain why you don't have to explain why you like the show you don't have to everybody else you talk like anybody to this day like any conversation i have even though it's the show is bigger than it has been in a long, long, long time
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I, I say what I do in my hobbies, whatever, I only go, what, what?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to kind of explain why.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you're hanging out with survivor fans, you don't have to explain why.
[SPEAKER_00]: You, you, you automatically can just talk about somebody's, you can say somebody's name.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, um, and all of a sudden, you have a conversation, you know, you can talk about that person's win.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that then leads to connection, which then leads to, okay,
[SPEAKER_00]: We have something in common, let's maybe strike up a different conversation and I think that that's why like these friendships have formed or other relationships have formed because Survivors just this like amazing TV show, but it's also something that really does connect people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a, it's a catalyst for something deeper because like now my friends and I, you know, don't just always talk survivor.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have, you know, many different things to talk about now, but it was a great, you know, wedge point for me to make all these new friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: I made so many friends during COVID.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's insane.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like my mom said in her speech at my wedding, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: she was afraid for me during COVID that I would just be like shut up in my room.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I made so many more friends than she could have ever dreamt about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this whole wedding is because of survivor.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she was like, thank God that this thing happened for her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though she's like, you're watching that show again.
[SPEAKER_01]: So how many times can you re-watch the season?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: don't don't time me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't have a really good time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now that actually brings me into a question that I want to talk to you about because you have one of the best memory recalls I feel like of anybody that I've ever talked to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and I know you probably seen the show many times, but I mean, so have I so have a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_00]: you have this, like, almost identity memory of survivor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this just because you've seen it so many times or do you have this, like, amazing recall in your, in your day-to-day life as well for other things?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I, I, anything that I fixate on, I get super fixated on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, I can hear a song, um, on the, on the radio if we're on the radio or like just playing and be like, Oh, they did this in this season of Glee in this person saying it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I can do it with a bunch of other shows or like I had this memory of when I was a child and then I was with my And this past weekend and she was like, it's crazy what you remember and it's just certain things stick in my head.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now if you ask me to recite boot orders, I can do it, but it's not like, all right, this person I automatically remember is, you know, seventh place.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is not my specialty, but I could tell you when seeing a challenge.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this happened in 40, 39 and 22.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's I mean it's really truly it's really really very very amazing like your memory recall and I feel like anybody who listens to your show or who listens to any of the patron like patron podcasts that we have it's just so so obvious um like not only you put in a lot of work but also it's it just comes so naturally to you it's so amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, um, before you watch survivor where they're other like, did you watch the other reality TV?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, is, or was, is this like your reality TV thing that it's like, obviously it's your number one, but Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was there, is there something else that you also can, you know, do that with.
[SPEAKER_00]: Other than Glee, because me too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I, I think survivor was my introduction into this type of competition reality.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I watched America's Got Talent, but like, what does that's not really much or, you know, something along those lines, like I watched, you know, the biggest loser, like I talked about, but I'm not reciting any of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it really just it started with survivor moved into the challenge.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still can't recall a lot from the amazing race.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I watched the race as it airs and that's kind of in for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: But something about survivor hooked me where it was like, you're now going to remember this for like the rest of your life.
[SPEAKER_01]: When John and I were trying to come up with what we wanted to do for a show on the channel when Phil and Alexa said, you know, we now have a platform for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, all right, so what do we do?
[SPEAKER_01]: And because they already have the recap, they have predictions and power rankings, like, what is there to do?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we're like, well, what if we use our brains and our, you know, past survivor knowledge and, you know, relate things back.
[SPEAKER_01]: to pass seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's just been so much fun to see that survivor hasn't totally changed because we are referencing things from, you know, preseason 10 in the new era.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where these things don't they don't change fully.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's this strategy is now still, you know, being implicated in survivor.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll watch an episode from the 20s that will relate to this episode and be like, oh, we picked it just because it had the same challenge, but then all of a sudden,
[SPEAKER_01]: It creates a chain of, like, survivor hasn't fully changed.
[SPEAKER_01]: It still has its roots in the older seasons that we love, even though Jeff is a little crazy in the new era.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, chicken at once.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we got to know the walls.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we did that in, when that came up in 48, because there's been like chanting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, La Flore in Nicaragua or Penner singing himself off in Philippines, things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, we picked like silly topics too sometimes of like, all right, this was a big part to this episode of Magic and Waffles.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fight in your awful thing was bad just because he said, that's how we do it on survivor and I'm just like, is that how we do it on survivor.
[SPEAKER_01]: What are we?
[SPEAKER_01]: What are what are we doing here?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are we doing here?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think this brings up a really interesting topic because
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the new era, and now going into the open era, which is a new thing that we don't even know what that really is going to be, what that's going to look like.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you feel like as somebody who binge and is watched many, many times, but it's also a relatively quote unquote, yeah, fan like like myself, how do you feel like you've seen survivor change, even since you started watching live and and do you think that like survivor has like well, like do we think we're going to see season 100 of survivor that kind of a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I, it's like one of those things that it might, it should end, but I don't want it to kind of thing of like this open era there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess making it an excuse for them doing whatever the heck they want.
[SPEAKER_01]: instead of having, you know, a certain set of rules that we feel like survivor should apply to, but now they're open.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they've already told us this, so we can't get bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, well, no, we still can.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, do we blame Sory, Rizzo, and Ozzy because they were the threple relationship and, and Jeff went, well, threples in survivor, now that means we must be open.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, one can only hope that that was this mentality, but it's definitely come become a lot more Kumbaya than, you know, from when I started watching, I also started watching when it was just in Fiji.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which is crazy to think about because I've seen it all the the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like I remember them being in other places, but I've only watched light Fiji and you know it just it does have a different feel watching older seasons because you know the landscape does play into those seasons, but
[SPEAKER_01]: with this open era, there's things that maybe we didn't think about that they want to bring back into the game that could be a twist or not even an advantage that could be in play like
[SPEAKER_01]: if they do a reward again where the winner gets to decide what person eats what, you know, that this could be a nice twist and a refreshing twist that the open era could bring.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't always have to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's every advantage.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm hoping and praying the open era is
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's you breathe.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's open.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's not, you know, bogged down with so many twists and things.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just just, just letting you know we can throw whatever at whatever time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we know we know I'm an eternal optimist for better or for worse, I really do think that like it's I think that they are just doing this first of all, I think it's a little silly to make arbitrary eras, eras came about how how they came about naturally.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because of people would watch the show, use what they saw on the show and then go play the show with what they had just seen and so we saw an evolution of gameplay because of that because Survivor is not played in a vacuum right so we saw an evolution of gameplay because of that and then with the new era is the first time like they named an era
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was like, you know, old school, new school.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was other stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a new name.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that was the fans kind of naming it.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was like, this is a new era of sort of.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like that was the first time that that era thing really happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, is that Taylor Swift's doing who knows.
[SPEAKER_00]: And blaming celebrities for things here, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really feel like maybe the new era, they put a set of arbitrary rules on themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: They felt like they had to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really remember an article that came out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to say it came out right around season 4647, where Jeff basically it was with Dalton Ross and Jeff basically said through the rest of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: This decade of eras, it'll be all new people like no but no returners at all because that was at the point where we were hoping 48 was going to be like a new era all stars we said right for keep the one let's see it we wanted some that and I at that moment I thought Are they just doing this because they're like ah we're so close like this is ridiculous let's just finish this era out and then we can do whatever we like do you feel like they they did that to themselves almost.
[SPEAKER_01]: possibly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like that they're trying to fit themselves into like 10 season boxes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, when we did celebrating survivor, we did put, you know, seasons in 10 season boxes, because it actually, it does fit within 10 seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of them are like the same kind of feel throughout the, throughout the seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: But now,
[SPEAKER_01]: naming it.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the open era.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, how open is it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Does it go for just the 10 seasons?
[SPEAKER_01]: And now you're changing your game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you're still kind of putting it in a box where you should let the seasons breathe and let the seasons do what they're going to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: If, you know, five seasons is like, you know, this is a different set of gameplay.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is five, as opposed to the end half of the
[SPEAKER_01]: just such a different game from, you know, 41, 42, 43, 44.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like each set of two is such a different kind of flow in season.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to they have similarities running throughout it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now are they projecting throughout the open era to have similarities running throughout the entire 10 seasons?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like, you know, it's going to be, I think it's going to be really, really interesting to watch.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, does this mean that every they're going to throw a bunch of things on the wall and see what sticks does this mean that we're not going to get any new twist and it's going to only be old old stuff are we going to see like I really hope.
[SPEAKER_01]: we see like camp raids, back like rural islands, camp raids, or stealing a castaway for a little a little bit of time, even if it's to mess up the boat or just for a ward or something like that, where they're forced to compete like how Nate and Nate could have been that they had just that
[SPEAKER_00]: They sat him out in Cook Island so, you know, yeah, I think that there are a lot of really, really fun things that they could bring back that are reminiscent of like old school, but like how would new era like new school players play with those kind of old school twists what if what if what if the
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, things are hidden and they actually need clues.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like watching where you're watching to ride with China, I forgot how much fun those clues were.
[SPEAKER_00]: Having to pass along a clue to somebody else that you don't actually get to keep, but maybe you're building a bond, maybe you're painting the target who knows?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like,
[SPEAKER_00]: it's very fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a hidden idol that you wouldn't think is an idol.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, you know, the archway, but then you also have Philippines with the idol that's on the rice container.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not thinking that symbol is going to be, I mean, now people might be, but like, I'm still not thinking, innately, like, this is an idol, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so it's interesting because Jeff said when Adam tried to find the, um, tried to find it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Clearly, he, after that, I believe Jeff said like he was never going to hide me thing, uh, tribal council.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was never going to hide me thing at Camps anymore because he doesn't want them destroying the set.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of like when you go to an escape room.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like there are things that say don't touch this is not a part of the game don't touch the air conditioning thing like, you know, he doesn't want people destroying this set.
[SPEAKER_00]: One thing I've been thinking about a lot is do we feel that the change of locations like do you think that the change of locations made it so that they were forced.
[SPEAKER_00]: to create new ideas and new things, and they were okay with people possibly destroying that because they had to destroy it anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that's staying in VG?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, might pose a problem as a backdrop, but do you think staying in VG has kind of created this almost stagnant, um, my new pool?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they're like, well, if we can reuse it, let's just reuse it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think that's a great question that you bring up.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, tribal council is always changing.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to have that giant arena for tribal council each season.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they devins destroying that one block is not going to mean anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think they should enact some of these things where it's like, it's not destroying it if it's easily removed.
[SPEAKER_01]: or like now you know Adam found the flirt Elise and now it's like all right he found it this is now not a real idol or just putting this flirt elite back you know kind of something to that extent where it's like he found it but we're putting this back um and
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they can do that and we're also, we also have always talked about idols at challenges, idols at, you know, this place at place and it's an easy way to incorporate a fun twist on idols where it's like, that is a bit where advantage.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you are getting it in front of the entire, you know, entire season, you're trying to grab that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, or, you know, bring back Nora's thing
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, simple ways to use your aware advantages that you like and you know, incorporate them in maybe an more old school way that's more fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, not that, you know, dipping your hand and red paint or like, you know, red paint being splattered everywhere isn't fun because honestly that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, it's just like,
[SPEAKER_01]: old school isn't bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and we can dive back into this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not, you don't have to keep changing and moving forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can move forward with looking at the past.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 100%.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, question for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love to know what your favorite season of Survivor is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, and not necessarily best, it doesn't have to say, you don't have to say what you think is the best season, but just one which one was your favorite and why, and then I think I know the answer to the second question.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's your favorite winner and why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Ah, okay, we'll start with the winner, get it over for a minute.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's obviously poverty, but I do have to shout out Sarah Lissina.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love her game changers game, and if you watch her podcast, I, you know, I've talked about how much I love that game.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it is one of the best winning games.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love how she did it in game changers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, parvity, but if I had to not pick parvity, it would be Sarah's winning game.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then favorite why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why parvity, though?
[SPEAKER_01]: because one, she's a queen.
[SPEAKER_01]: To, I, this was pre-knowing, and the barber, I watched Cook Islands, loved her from Cook Islands.
[SPEAKER_01]: Didn't know that she was gonna go on to be one of the greats of survivor.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I was like, holy crap, she won.
[SPEAKER_01]: That this is amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm like, all right, she's coming back for another season.
[SPEAKER_01]: And here's her surveillance, like, this is great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I, to have your,
[SPEAKER_01]: player that you pick out from the seasons that like this is your favorite player to then have them win and not know that they're going to win is like such an awesome feeling like if you pick a winner pick for you know the the new seasons that are upcoming and then they win like that's still that's like a I did it you know so it was really great
[SPEAKER_01]: to see like my favorite player who I didn't know was, you know, the Queen or Queen of Jason.
[SPEAKER_01]: She actually won the game because you would not tell by Cook Islands.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You would not.
[SPEAKER_00]: You would not tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then so what is your favorite season?
[SPEAKER_01]: And why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I harder, harder question.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe I go back and forth on a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I love here's versus villains, but then there are stale points.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think second chance is a great season, but now I'm also naming to return these seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
[SPEAKER_01]: Panama really creeps up into just like this is an all-newbie top tier season where there's there's drama there's gameplay because you know the wonderful world of seri is in this you have the opposition between Terry and artists like you have Shane and Courtney like all all around Panama is just an amazing season so
[SPEAKER_01]: All new B season, I would probably have to say Panama, but returning, I mean, you can't go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's versus villains.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just too good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, that's why I always say you don't necessarily have to pick the best because I personally believe that on paper.
[SPEAKER_00]: It handles versus villains is probably the best.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, from like start to finish, there is, there are, yes, there are dull moments, but there are dull moments with almost every single season.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like just like episode one is crazy and then the nowly is wild, like it's just, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great, it's a great season.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like Panama is a great pick that I feel like, well, I don't hear a lot that often.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, I'm seeing a lot of people saying that Panama is bad online now, and I'm not just, that's just wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: See, like here, like me saying that's a wrong opinion, but some people must have other reasons for that that I would love to hear and see why they think that way,
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Panama is just like what it has everything you need.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's weird when it opens with older men, older women, younger men, younger women.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that is just a different twist especially when the older women are in their 30s and I'm 29 right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So eating 35 is crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like come on like that is ridiculous but whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, I think that you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's really, really interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: I talked to when I was in LA for the finale.
[SPEAKER_00]: I talked to Tony Squares.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we got, we get along so well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he's great guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: We waited in line all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was talking about this MPR article that I was like, I hate this list.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is hysteria.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I hate this list is like this was actually actively mixed me mad, like not a huge fan of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mainly, mainly because like China was like 28 on the list.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then like winners at war was like four or something and those are two things that I think are that's crazy to me because I'm going to If you if you know me, I'm not the biggest winners at war fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the Tony plays a great game, but I think overall it's like fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I definitely don't think it's one of the better returning player seasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's I mean, they're all.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is crazy and someone like must have listened to me, I'm one of the more like vocal of I don't hate South Pacific.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what, that's, I, I, I, I see where you're coming from with that, but there were some that I'm like China at 27 or was I said that is actually a crime against humanity.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was talking to Tony Squares about this and he goes actually I saw that list and I agreed with most of it and I went, well, we saw his list after he rewatched or watched for the first time all those seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's so funny though that it brings us back to one of the first points you made that people are going if there is an opinion to be had about survivor or about a person or about a season somebody will have it that is what I've learned about the internet is that somebody will have there is somebody who despises returning player season there is somebody who you know every single person will have an opinion and it's so fun to talk to people who really know what they're talking about and have a different opinion because
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not much in life where you can get into a spirited debate with somebody where it doesn't really matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to go home and be like, I'm wounded because you're now attacking me personally.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like there's nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not much in life where, you know, because let's be real.
[SPEAKER_00]: Survivor isn't that serious.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very serious.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's also like not that serious.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you can get into a debate with somebody about something that's not that serious, it's kind of like fun a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was on debate in high school.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was not in debate, but I love hearing people out on their opinions of why they might like something or not like something that I do or do not, and then just like talking about talking it through and be like, okay, so, you know, why did Edna make Sophie the winner of the
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Queen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Edna, Queen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, now that I asked what your favorite and players and season is, what is your least favorite season?
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you want to go least favorite player.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, easy, it's on both.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nicaragua and Shannon Elkins, the worst.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't really don't like the garag with that much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nick or Agua, so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like it's has always been my least favorite season ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I understand that there are definitely worse seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thailand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Island of the idols has a blip in there, but it's such an, I don't know, that was actually pretty good season.
[SPEAKER_01]: This one person is very terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's just the one person just really puts a damper on a lot of it, but I understand that there are probably like worst seasons, but for me, oh, Nicaragua grinds my gears.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I could not get past it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, yeah, Shannon is just.
[SPEAKER_00]: it's so funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so funny that I think that super fans always have like that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like where you're just like this one person is just not for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I can't do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like mine, Dan the Postman.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't love that season.
[SPEAKER_00]: mainly because of him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Austin, who makes all of our thumbnails and Instagram stuff, during season 46, we were joking around somehow and then he made this thumbnail of all
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and our chat name is called Shannon sweet hearts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, just to annoy the crap out of me.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, this is going to be the next rewind episode, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just all Shannon.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, I'm going to go home now.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is so funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so when I did my, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: The first one was all seasons all 49.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't do season 50.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did all 40 49 seasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: The season that had zero votes for the longest, not 49, not South Pacific, not Thailand, or 41, not 42.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not 39, it's not great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just I think it just has like such a big like cloud on the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just feels like so mean and
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm also not the biggest backbone fan either, I know, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out,
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that I kind of like me grew up more than other people because I really like Fabio.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I hate Fabio's when more than most, but he doesn't redeem the season for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just really, I don't know, he's just so non-shallot, like he's just so...
[SPEAKER_00]: Judd he's just I just I don't know and I I don't hate this season I was really shocked when it was like zero because I was like we're gonna more we will want to watch Thailand What are we doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are we doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that Thailand?
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate Thailand As most to do I that's really not a hot take I I never once enjoyed watching Brian and I hated
[SPEAKER_00]: hated that he won.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like from day like I did not like this man from like day one.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when he won, I went, I hate this show.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate this show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it just gives me like the like, yeah, well, I again, I didn't know anything about who won Thailand.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they they're introducing everybody what their jobs before the school yard pick and he goes, I'm a used car salesman.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you've got to get him out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they didn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he wanted.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, but I will say, but I will say, and I hate to say this, even though it is probably very true, he played a great game.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, he had a great win.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that the interesting thing about survivor is you might not like somebody personally, but as a fan, at least a fan of the show, watched a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are times where even if you don't like somebody personally, sometimes you got to go like, well, they've played the game pretty well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like when we did a ranking of Russell Hans, I like ranked him like two or whatever and I was like I don't like him, but that doesn't change the fact that he changed the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like I love Sarah Easton, but she won't love me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I love the games that she she played in her seasons maybe aside from game changers, but she tried.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I, I've always just loved her as a player, but I know if I'm out on that island, that I'm not, she's not working with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's so it's survivor so interesting like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there are times when, you know, you're going to, you're going to like a player, but maybe not, you know, love the person or like the game that they play.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's just fat.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's fascinating.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so it's for you bring up game changes a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know why I'm thinking about this, but.
[SPEAKER_00]: They say that we're going to have more returning player seasons, like that's what the rumor mill says.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there like a theme of a returning player season that we have not had that you would like to see in the future?
[SPEAKER_01]: a great question.
[SPEAKER_01]: We could do a one-year-old opportunity.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I was listening to a podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those of you who don't know and depending on whenever this is going out.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of my friends Andrew Dunson is doing 50 seasons and 50 days, so he's been watching all 50 seasons in 50 days and I was listening to the game changers podcast and I think what hurts this season is it's being called game changers and what helps 50 is because it's season 50.
[SPEAKER_01]: hand in the hands of the fans.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not legends.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not, you know, something that gives a moniker to the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it almost would help a returning player season to not be called anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just being called a number or, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: a location, game-chame, a survivor, 34, Momenica Islands.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would have been sufficed enough for that cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: But because it was game-changers and now we have Haley Ford, you know a bunch of people are questioning it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I almost think survivor would benefit with returning player seasons, just being the numbers, as much as I hate having the numbers as our season definers, it honestly helps returning seasons with people being more accepting to the cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a really interesting thought process because I think you're probably right and it's funny because I also think and I've been saying that's a lot I've been saying this for a while at least for heroes versus villains that I always felt bad for everyone who was on the heroes tribe because when you are when you are bestowed the title of hero it limits what you feel like you can do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, um, because it's the same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you are a mom, Lil in the Boy Scout uniform, like Joe saying honor and integrity or coach saying honor and integrity, you know, and this is so, this is very silly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to bring in my personal life to this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a vegetarian.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been a vegetarian my whole life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I tell somebody I'm vegetarian, no, this is not bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is just what we will happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: People will usually start off by saying, oh, I was vegetarian for two weeks in college.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I did.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's we love.
[SPEAKER_00]: Be a vegetarian for a day.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's so funny that when I think somebody feels that another person,
[SPEAKER_00]: because of something that they do, that other person is morally superior to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: They immediately get defensive and feel like they have to prove that they are better or you are not worthy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the other thing that I get a lot of vegetarian, and I say I've never meet, there was go, well,
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you know that bugs climbing your mouth at night and you probably eaten a ton of bugs or how do you know that they're not speaking chicken stock into your food?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so there are two ways that a lot of times people will react to this kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that on a hero's versus villain's type of season or if you're in a boy's gut uniform or whatever else, people will either state you have to be the perfect mom, you have to be the perfect hero.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're not the perfect thing, then
[SPEAKER_01]: You're bad, oh boo, you're bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's the perfect example of that, where she's, you know, a mom.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's playing villainously and doing what she needs to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we, you know, if you were at the end, people are not going to reward her the same as they would Tony.
[SPEAKER_00]: 100% and you know, you see Riem, you know, first, first one voted up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just so interesting or like, you know, I don't even, I don't like her, but Missy at the end of San Miguel Sir, I'm not a Missy fan, but
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the set evil set mother speech, which is amazing and so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's iconic speech.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also very much like she's a mom, but she was also kind of playing the game, but she was also, and so because of that, she's a villain.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's very, but it's very interesting where I always go back to here as far as villains.
[SPEAKER_00]: The villains got licensed to kill.
[SPEAKER_00]: because they were told, I'm bad, I can do whatever I want.
[SPEAKER_00]: The heroes were told, you guys are amazing, so so good, 10 and a 10.
[SPEAKER_00]: That kind of limits what they can do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially like Candace, who is a go with the flow, I'm gonna see where the numbers go, kind of player, automatically acts.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: What what did Candace do?
[SPEAKER_01]: What has Candace ever done to deserve any of the eight that she's gotten?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, but yeah, it
[SPEAKER_01]: to putting people in these boxes of like, even David versus Goliath, it still is like, I'm supposed to be in control.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a Goliath versus I'm immediately looked at as an underdog the entire season.
[SPEAKER_01]: When someone could have not been an underdog at any point during the season, but you're gonna feel that way because they're Goliath or because they're a David.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like, because another thing to think about, like, these players also have to remember that, I mean, they don't have to remember, but they will think about this, it's going to be on national television, but person off the bat is going to immediately root for the Goliath to win.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not many.
[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't matter how much you like the person.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you hear underdog story versus the person that everyone wants to win already, you're usually going to say, I want the underdogs to win.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I do think that the like the theme seasons, the names, heroes, healers, hustlers, like, like, you know, or even in just 35.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I, and I think that, like, I'm like putting it on beauty where like that doesn't play into the game as much as some of these other seasons see I kind of disagree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I think brains up until Aubrey winning season to deeps while they're alert.
[SPEAKER_00]: No brain had ever won American Survivor and I think it's because the brains have this you you already have this idea that oh, you're so smart.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got to get you out like you're already being put into a box and you see the brains usually implode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or, you know, something happens because, you know, and I think it's because the title of the brain.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a whole thing about how I think names and words or I have made a whole video about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wrote my college essay on why I think names are important, you know, to humans.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that it's a really fun conversation to have about survivor because I do think it impacts how people play the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is true.
[SPEAKER_01]: I played my first live game and I was like, okay, these I'm finally around survivor fans and I can, you know, really talk survivor.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was open about a lot of the stuff and, you know, talking about facts and figures and all that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then that actually played into my boat out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was pre-merge and they thought I would be more threatening in the merge because I knew
[SPEAKER_01]: I can say a trivia fact doesn't mean that I am good at strategy.
[SPEAKER_00]: A real moe, real moe, real moe.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I mean that...
[SPEAKER_01]: the brains I think I guess more plays into anything than the rest of the season because if you're like if you're just kind of meaty, you know, what else can you do?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean Tony didn't win a single individual immunity challenge until, you know, deep into winners at war.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just I think that it's I think survivor is fascinating because there are a lot of different aspects of the game that come into play that maybe people don't necessarily think about I bet the producers think about this right but the producers are like oh man like if we do this that this means that this person probably going to do this like the problem we think about that when they're putting the tribes together.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean they did it was not an accident that Aubrey and Q were on the same tribe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then like millennials versus Gen X, which gives two different groups of people rooting interests.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like obviously I want the millennials to win, but you know someone older than I am would want a Gen X or a Gen X or to win, but that doesn't necessarily mean like I don't like the Gen X or is it doesn't put a
[SPEAKER_01]: buy us toward the majority of people, like with a, you know, David versus Goliath, and it's interesting to watch that season play out and also then watch Africa where, you know, the Gen X is supposed to be like the hardworking and then in Africa, the Gen Xers or the ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, lazy Gen Xers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the young are always the lazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: The young are always the span of survivor now with like you have watch go watch Africa, then go watch Millennials
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the next time we have a Gen Z versus Millennials, I bet you they're going to be like, Oh, Gen Z is so lazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they already did in 50 like Rizzo was just hanging Rizzo was just hanging around.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lazy, lazy, young folks, how it always is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, McKenna, I always love hearing your insights about survivor because I think again, you have such a knack for it, and it is really, like I've said, very incredibly impressive.
[SPEAKER_00]: how much you know about this show and and just kind of the breadth of knowledge that you have.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there any last like words that you want to say to the survivor fandom about your survivor fandom before that you go today?
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't I guess, don't ever
[SPEAKER_01]: lose the fandom because I was very persistent and, you know, wanting to pursue friends, pursue, you know, this, like, I fill and Alexa were very, you know, open and just they always felt attainable to, like, talk to, like, you can always send the specialist to DM and someone will answer it.
[SPEAKER_01]: the, you know, on Instagram or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just like this community of our little like survivor corner has always felt like
[SPEAKER_01]: intimate, even though it has grown, it has, you know, and I just, I just love being here specifically within our corner of the universe.
[SPEAKER_01]: So keep the keep watching survivor because there's always stuff to talk about with it like we were saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I just love the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, McKenna, thank you so much for chatting with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And where can the people find you?
[SPEAKER_00]: And what are you working on right now before I let you go?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So depending on when this comes out, John and I are doing bitter or better, we have some guests floating around throughout the weeks, but we are Wednesday evenings around 8 pm.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are talking about the first jurors impact on their season and how they were either bitter,
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, for the season and kind of, uh, or a bit more negative light, maybe they help someone lose the game or better for the game and really like we're open-minded and it's a game, you know, we're all here to deceive people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and normally during the seasons John and I do the survivor rewind on Fridays and if you want to get to know some of survivors pass, even if you don't remember it yourself, we're always here to remind you of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you so much, McKenna.
[SPEAKER_00]: And thank you all so much for listening to this episode of Surviving the Phantom.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a couple more coming your way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very excited about some of all of them, honestly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's going to be a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: And during the offseason, this specialist will have some great things.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can always go to the Patreon, to listen to weekly podcasts about Survivor, about other really great things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, come and down the line.
[SPEAKER_00]: We also have some really fun like rankings and stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just don't want to spoil anything, but it's going to be fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, thank you all so much for listening and until next time, bye!