[SPEAKER_01]: Well, hey there my friend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the wannabe clutter free podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Diana Yates, your decluttering cheerleader, and this is episode 317.
[SPEAKER_01]: So today's guest made me rethink something that I already thought I had figured out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ashley Piper is a sustainability expert, speaker, and the creator of the no new things challenge.
[SPEAKER_01]: An idea that she started in 2013 before no spending challenges were even a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Her work has been featured on the today show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good morning, America.
[SPEAKER_01]: CNN in Vogue.
[SPEAKER_01]: The New York Times, Washington Post, honestly, it felt list keeps going.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she has spoken at the United Nations and South by Southwest.
[SPEAKER_01]: She has a popular TED Talk.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so delighted when she agreed to come on this show and we are talking about her recent book which is called No New Things and it is fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a radical, sorry, the subtitle is a radically simple, 30-day guide to saving money the planet and your sanity.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have listened to it on audiobook, I have read it.
[SPEAKER_01]: At least once, cover to cover and keep going back to it as it's just such a phenomenal book, and this is actually from my library, so I really need to get myself a second-hand copy of this one, but super, super good, highly recommended, and the challenge is simple, like the premise is simple of the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's basically stopped by new stuff for 30 days, but what actually happens inside that challenge is where it gets really interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so Ashley and I are going to talk about why we're all buying more than we think we are, even if we don't consider ourselves shoppers.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to raise my hand on that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: We dig into something Ashley calls conditioned consumerism and I promise it is going to make the clutter in your house make a lot more sense when we start talking through why we buy all these all of these things and why we feel like we need to start having new things and more things in our home.
[SPEAKER_01]: and she walks us through exactly how to try this yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're new here make sure you subscribe so you don't miss a single episode and then come come over and find us on Instagram.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm at want to be clutter free or in our Facebook community the want to be minimalist family there.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right we'd love to have you in either of the places and a
[SPEAKER_01]: Just kind of follow along and be with like many people, so hopefully I'll see you over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, today's show notes can be found at 1bclutterfree.com-317.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, with that, let's dive in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, hey, Ashley, welcome to 1bclutterfree.
[SPEAKER_01]: How you doing today?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing great, Diana, thanks so much for having me on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am so excited.
[SPEAKER_01]: I read your book a while ago, and as soon as I read it, I was like, I absolutely have to have Ashley on the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm so thankful you said yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's get into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: If people don't know who you are, tell us who you are, and what you do, and then we will dive on in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm Ashley Piper.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a sustainability expert.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of the shorthand I use for my work.
[SPEAKER_00]: I help individuals and companies just lead more eco-friendly lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have more eco-friendly and sustainable processes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do a lot of speaking.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have two books.
[SPEAKER_00]: out the most recent of which we're probably going to talk a lot about called no new things and it's based off of the challenge I started for myself in 2013 to, you know, as it says, not by anything new with the exception of like groceries and underwear and toothbrush.
[SPEAKER_00]: and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it kind of became something that the more I shared about it on social media, the more people seemed really interested in it and seemed like they needed something like this in their lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the natural extension of that was that a developed into a book which not only guides people through the 30 day no new things, challenge that I created and have honed over time with thousands of people's feedback who've done the challenge.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it also illustrates and goes through the history of consumption and over consumption and just general consumerism, especially in the global West and the United States.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I find that my work though it started with sustainability.
[SPEAKER_00]: Naturally has tons of intersection into consumerism and what we would call over consumption now and how that runs our lives, the psychology, the sociology, the marketing and advertising around that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I also talk a lot about that and I teach that at a university level as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I knew that last part.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how I missed that last person.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's up?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I would be fascinated if I read in your class.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just remember back to some of my college professors.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were not as fascinating.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: We keep it fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: They call me professor pipes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, we have a good time out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my gosh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so let's start with the challenge.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you started in 2013.
[SPEAKER_01]: What was going on that made you say, like, okay, I have to stop buying new stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and what did you expect to happen?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in 2013, I was a political strategist.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a completely different career at the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I
[SPEAKER_00]: I was getting more interested in sustainability just from a personal standpoint.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I wanted to incorporate more sustainable habits.
[SPEAKER_00]: I became vegetarian, then vegan, and, you know, again, all the intersections of that and climate change.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was finding a ton of joy in the journey of learning about and incorporating more sustainable habits and shifts into my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was looking at my career in being like, wait, I'm running and creating huge messaging campaigns for politicians all around the country.
[SPEAKER_00]: Many of whom I wasn't aligned with, I was working at a firm.
[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't choose my clients necessarily.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was wondering, why is there no one really talking about this?
[SPEAKER_00]: That much, or signal boosting, sustainable living in a way that is attractive, appealing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, for so long, it's really kind of been shown.
[SPEAKER_00]: There have been two camps of sustainability.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are
[SPEAKER_00]: Climate scientists and folks who are very much in the academic arena, which we need them, and I very much appreciate them, but a lot of that conversation is very academic, cerebral, a little naval gasey, like it's not designed for the average person out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not designed for the average person out there to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let me read this study and see what I can do in my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there was kind of another camp of folks who were talking a little bit about
[SPEAKER_00]: recycle, you know, and not really delving into why or if that system's even working, or it's showing sustainable living is really crunchy and full of sacrifices and just not fun, like frankly, kind of frenzy, like you're going to be really isolated, if you incorporate this stuff, and that's not what I found at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I wanted to take a
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of the fear mongering out of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a very fearful thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand obviously climate change is a huge issue, but I wanted to take some of that out of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted it to feel warm and fun and approachable and cool, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I wanted it to feel like something people would be like, I could do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I started getting into sustainability.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I realized that because my job was quite stressful, and the wheels were turning.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I want to leave this job.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't exactly know how I'm going to build a career and sustainability.
[SPEAKER_00]: There wasn't a blueprint for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so as the wheels were turning, I was also realizing that I was
[SPEAKER_00]: Developing a new habit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't been a shopaholic or anything like that, but I was developing this new habit where I would be browsing and buying a bunch of crap.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't need to suit the stress and also some of the to avoid some of the confusion or the responsibility I had to unpack what I was going to do with this career and how I was going to pivot by buying stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like stuff that didn't make sense, and I feel like so many of us have been there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like sequined pillows, you know, in like clothes that didn't fit that I would put in my closet and then forget about.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was all stuff that had like very little utility in my life, and I sought developing as a bit of a habit, and I said, no, I don't want to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, as I, you know, became more,
[SPEAKER_00]: familiar with some of the research that was out there around consumerism and marketing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just felt like this is something that's actually controlling me and I want to understand those impulses better.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I decided, you know, I'll just not buy anything new aside from the essentials for 30 and I called it no new things because I like a little
[SPEAKER_00]: iteration and it ended up being something I did for 30 days and then continued for almost two years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it brought, it just opened the floodgates to so much value in my life, so much richness, so many of kind of the known things that I had expected, like saving money, paying off debt, you know, whatever, but also a lot of things that I was not expecting that made my life so much
[SPEAKER_00]: How it was born.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that it just came from this moment of like, you know, I just have to do something and I know that I'm just one person, but I'm going to see what I can do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's maybe why one of the reasons why the message spread.
[SPEAKER_01]: so well is because you're not trying to change this giant, you know, behemoth.
[SPEAKER_01]: You are tackling a big project or a big problem, but you're doing it in a way that you're like, you know what, I can take ownership over myself and I can do something and maybe I can encourage some other people to do it too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, because that's all we really have control over.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think people get dented when they think of sustainability stuff because they think, oh, well, I can't do it perfectly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or, you know, I'm just one person and very few of us are like heads of state or captains of industries.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, while we absolutely need those macro governmental industry solutions to climate change, all we can really do is control our little corner of the universe.
[SPEAKER_00]: And sustainable habits are a great way to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: They help to kind of make you feel more powerful.
[SPEAKER_00]: But also our consumption of things is a great way to turn off the tap on both producing more new stuff and not disposing
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think like, you know, a lot of times folks will be like, I'm going to try this new thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do this new thing and one of the biggest questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going on a rant here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, but one of the big questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: When I started doing like TV segments, because that's also a big part of my job.
[SPEAKER_00]: When I started doing TV segments on Nico friendly living, the first thing people would ask me is, what do I need to buy to be more sustainable?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I always thought that was really interesting and this is why like I'm a crummy influencer right because because my answer would always be not nothing, you know, you don't need to buy something, but that goes to show how conditioned we are.
[SPEAKER_00]: To think my gosh, I'm going to start something new or I want to be different or I want to have a different half, but I want to do better.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do I need to buy?
[SPEAKER_00]: How do I need to supply up to do it?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's something nice about no new things is there's no barrier to entry here.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no.
[SPEAKER_00]: you can start right now and you don't need to buy a single thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's so interesting because I think the parallel as you said that to decluttering is so perfect because people say, I'm going to declutter.
[SPEAKER_01]: What bins do I need to buy to get myself organized?
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, well, wait.
[SPEAKER_01]: The whole idea is getting stuff out of your house, not bringing new stuff in.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's so similar.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a whole, you know, no shade to organization experts.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's a whole industry unto itself that has just like exploded with doors with all of the bins and the label makers and the, you know, and
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that kind of I think that quote that you hear a lot from professional organizers or folks who shepherd people into decluttering their lives, which is kind of what you just said.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't need more organizers.
[SPEAKER_00]: You need less stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't organize your way out of clutter.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what they say.
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to go back to the idea of conditioned consumerism.
[SPEAKER_01]: You were talking about consumerism.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in your book, you had this term conditioned consumerism.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you explain what that is?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think a lot of my listeners feel like they're not big shoppers, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They listen to this podcast after all, and they think, well, I'm
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't buy a lot of new things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, I declutter.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be mindful about what I have in my house, but then somehow they look up and suddenly their house feels full or is full.
[SPEAKER_01]: So talk to us about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I call it condition consumerism sometimes coerced consumerism if I'm feeling very spicy, but it's really just a blanket term to encapsulate how especially here in the United States, marketing and advertising is such a robust area of industry.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it didn't always use to be like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't always use to be people who were consumers first.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I talk about this a lot in the book because I really think it's important to understand the historical genesis of how did we go from being people who are like my 109-year-old grandmother who since passed away, but she would wash and reuse tin foil, where and I gown till it was thread bear, you know, she very much had that kind of like depression era sensibility.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she wasn't unique in that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We very much used to be, and I'll talk about the United States most specifically because that's where a lot of my work is centered, but we used to be people who bought things for utility, who bought things for longevity, and we weren't recreationally shopping.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, and this is only something that's a relatively recent phenomena.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's after World War II, because during World War II, we were all tightening our belts.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were, you know, making do and mending.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were basically contributing every scrap of...
[SPEAKER_00]: disposable or spare income or time we had to the common enemy, which was like the war effort, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So people were really living in a very modest way where a lot of these habits that we consider to be sustainable or like minimalist or whatever, were second nature.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is just what people were doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: After World War II, with the help of like the advertising industry as well, the entire notion of what it means to be a good citizen,
[SPEAKER_00]: what it means to be a victorious American completely changed and it pivots around consumerism and a lot of that is logistically by design because we had a ton of factories that you know like World War II was one of the biggest explosions of industry and industrial capability in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: But especially in the United States, where women and other folks were working in factories, making stuff for the war effort.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, now that the war is over, what are these factories going to make now?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they're not going to need to make all these parachutes and propellers and all that kind of stuff, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you've got a lot of men who are returning home from war and they're going to need jobs.
[SPEAKER_00]: in terms of like millions of men returning home.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what you see happening is that these factories start to pivot to make from making wartime wares to making things that are considered luxury goods.
[SPEAKER_00]: Having a television was still considered a luxury good in a home.
[SPEAKER_00]: having multiple televisions unheard of, having dishwashers, washing machines, you know, kind of these automated things that did these processes in our lives pretty unheard of at the time, definitely not common, having more than one car, having homes that were enormous, absolutely unheard of at the time, having clothes that you could buy off the rack that fit you,
[SPEAKER_00]: more rare definitely more rare so all of these things that were seen as luxurious began to become associated with a victorious society with the new American dream and we see the rise of those things and those things are being made in these repurposed factories and they're being advertised especially strongly to women at this time who have gotten married maybe to like a return and
[SPEAKER_00]: They buy and large.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not working anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: We see the advent of the suburbs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is like a long explanation, but there are so many things that are flying in here that are happening at the same time that contribute to us completely attitude and leash shifting around how we see things.
[SPEAKER_00]: and how we see things as a defining goalpost of our worth in society and in our lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, advertising just really started to ramp up and get very sophisticated, started to more aggressively leverage psychology, what do people want, what do women want, what do they want to feel, and how can we associate this thing?
[SPEAKER_00]: with how they want to feel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Having two cars, having a larger home, having a vacuum cleaner, that's going to make me feel like I've made it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when you look at advertisements at this time, like post 1943, they are completely different.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're very futuristic.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're very locks.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're very things as, you know, equating to value, love, you know, any of that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we see this really sharply, post-World War II, and it just continues to meteorically skyrocket really.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Into what we have today.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so now, I say it's condition consumerism because we've gone from people who are wearing hand me downs and had the same cast iron skillet forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, we're planting victory gardens and stuff like that to people who buy things and we're conditioned to buy things for every conceivable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Human emotion, condition, potential problem, like how often do you have something not used specifically?
[SPEAKER_00]: But do we have something maybe go wrong in our homes or a kid needs something for school or whatever it is?
[SPEAKER_00]: And we immediately fire up Amazon because we think, oh, there's got to be something I can get quickly for this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like our mindset is no longer one where we think, what do I already have?
[SPEAKER_00]: That could fit this bill.
[SPEAKER_00]: What could I borrow from someone that could help
[SPEAKER_00]: because we used to borrow things.
[SPEAKER_00]: We used to resource share.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't do that as much anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's considered tacky, you know, or go.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so our mindset is shifted from that one of being resourceful, and we've off-boarded the resourcefulness to buying just new things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I mean by condition consumerism.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the very like
[SPEAKER_00]: long explanation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I go more in depth in the book and there are a lot of interesting nuances and things that I think happened during this period of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course production of new things ramps up during this time too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what we see in how it does tell us with climate change is that it absolutely, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: human created climate change, which is very real.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a noticeable spike and correlation between this ramped up production of stuff and harmful global emissions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it just keeps going up and up, ever ascending for decades to where we are now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we know that
[SPEAKER_00]: this focus on consumerism, this attitude, no change.
[SPEAKER_00]: This mindset shift has absolutely sparked and created more harmful global emissions, more issues of pollution.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's also very much correlated to people going into that.
[SPEAKER_00]: People feeling more stressed.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and people having more clutter in their homes, which is also, as you know, feeling stressed and feeling unsatisfied in your life and hairy and whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's very much conditioned consumerism.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a Pavlovian response, like I have a problem or I feel a kind of way, even if it's a good feeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to go on a date, you're excited.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do we do?
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going shopping.
[SPEAKER_00]: Got to get an outfit.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got to get, we got to get a hold up.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got to get an outfit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm celebrating something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me go buy that thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've always wanted.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not saying that that's necessarily bad, but we really have only seen in the past 30, 40 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: People listing shopping as a hobby.
[SPEAKER_00]: As a hobby, as entertainment, as recreation.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was not like that
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a conditioning that happens over time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, so interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we didn't even get into the 80s and the production of moving production overseas.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we will leave that for people to read in the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think it's very fascinating and for those that are really into that, they will just eat up this book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do want to ask though because it's my show and I can ask whatever one you can ask whatever you want honey.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to get a little not necessarily political, but do you see a shift a little bit?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care, get political.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you and I feel the same let's do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you see a shift in people pulling back a little bit?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think we're also siloed, so I think it's really easy to see whatever your seeing in your own world.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I would be curious as someone who's maybe more a little bit more plugged in to the things that are going on in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you see that like people starting gardening again because things are getting so expensive?
[SPEAKER_01]: That I think there is a natural cutback because people just don't have as much expendable cash anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gas prices in California are $7.
[SPEAKER_01]: Think we have an electric car.
[SPEAKER_01]: We only have one car in our house, but I was counting how many screens we have when you were saying that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh my god.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I got to step in just off the top of my head.
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's just so interesting to see how that has shifted, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So we each have a computer.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a couple TVs.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have, you know, so it's just interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: We each have a phone.
[SPEAKER_01]: How are these things happen over time?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean with technology, I think it's just too.
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's get to the question at hand of, do you see people pulling back a little bit?
[SPEAKER_01]: for other reasons or maybe it is for this more sustainability reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: And how do you see that going with the political environment up today?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the answer to that's a bit nuanced.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's yes, and it's no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, it's just on, gosh, there's just on news nation talking about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I do, you know, speak to a lot of audiences on all sides.
[SPEAKER_00]: political spectrum.
[SPEAKER_00]: I personally, you know, I'm going to lean very progressive because I'm doing work in sustainability and climate change.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe climate change is real.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe there are things we can do.
[SPEAKER_00]: That said, there have been some data points that have come out showing that people are
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, one overwhelmingly secondhand, as far as like, especially the secondhand clothing market, has absolutely boomed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Year over year, it's growing faster than new, which I think it speaks to more like a trend, like that that now it's considered chic, it's considered original, whereas
[SPEAKER_00]: When you and I were growing up, it was maybe considered like a little crusty dusty.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I loved that it's getting kind of a makeover when it comes to, you know, how folks see it or the stigma around it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's becoming so popular that actually, this was a recent story that came up with private equities starting to buy up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: clothing companies.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, please, no, later that's something makes a lot of money, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think that's quite interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So people are overwhelmingly interested in secondhand clothing, especially in that market.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we're seeing that in furniture and other goods as well, because those marketplaces are popping up everywhere for electronics, beauty, all of that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that there's data that points to
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we are kind of Korean, it wasn't, say, creating, we're doing a slow walk to the guillotine of having some sort of recession here in the United States, especially with the money that's getting flooded in Iran and all of the things that are happening there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Terriffs have caused a lot of people to have pause with what they are buying or how much they are buying.
[SPEAKER_00]: because the things that were considered cheap goods before are no longer as cheap.
[SPEAKER_00]: And especially if those cheap goods cannot get through the state of Hormuz to get here, or wherever they're going for distribution, that stuff is going to get exponentially more expensive.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think folks are realizing, oh, if they don't have access to this cheap crop that's new, and well, then they're either going to have to resort to second hand or making do with what they've got.
[SPEAKER_00]: So people aren't buying as many things by and large, and the data does support that,
[SPEAKER_00]: economically like you also pointed out not only are those things becoming more expensive, but the more fixed things in our lives that we really can't say hey I'm not going to pay my rent or I'm not going to help insurance or I'm not going to buy food or put gas in my car all of those things have gotten significantly more expensive too and when that happens by and large we go okay I'm not going to I need to focus my you know financial attention on those things
[SPEAKER_00]: What's interesting is even with the students I teach at university, like Gen Z and Gen Alpha are the most concerned about climate change and interested in sustainability generations that are out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'll embrace things like second hand and stuff, but they're also one of the biggest flywheels of like Sheen and Temu and, you know, stuff like, you know, chatGPT, like stuff that is considered very
[SPEAKER_00]: to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a very interesting, it's a very interesting portrait of what how those values are put into action.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yes, I think people are buying fewer things and I think the term overconsumption is becoming a lot more well-known and used.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like when I got my book deal in 2024, 2020, when was it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my, 2024.
[SPEAKER_00]: were consumption was just starting to trend on social media as a hashtag and I thought oh well great we're in this I guess some black people are are more into it and I think now it's become a very dirty word to people you know like we we use it it's a pejorative it's not a good thing people aren't like I love how you over consume bitch you know like we
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a very not great word and the shift on that I think has shown that people are starting to be more interested in buying fewer things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think at least there's some positive, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: At least if things have to get more expensive, at least it is potentially the positive of people will start buying less crap, which means less crap will get produced and that will have a positive impact on our planet, which
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll take it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll take this overlining throughout.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it really is, though, of course, there are so many things about this point in time that are causing a lot of hardships on people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And unimaginable hardships that folks should not be having to deal with, making choices they should not be having.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is for, you know, the listeners who have some privilege, some disposable income, you know, a little wiggle room.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is an opportunity to really continually refine what are your values and where do you want to put your money?
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, when there's just a whole universe of crap and garbage out there that you could be buying, is there a better way to get your needs met?
[SPEAKER_00]: is there a better way to keep those things in good repair?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think it's just like another opportunity for us to further home, what are our beliefs?
[SPEAKER_00]: What kind of world do we want to live in?
[SPEAKER_01]: go back to that idea of asking your neighbors.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not gauche.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they all want to help.
[SPEAKER_01]: If someone asked you, you would love to help.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do that all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were working in our garden.
[SPEAKER_01]: We asked our neighbors next door to borrow their shovel.
[SPEAKER_01]: I borrowed my I got into making macarons and I, um, macrons if we want to.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I love it, girl, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I asked my neighbor to borrow her food processor.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I can't have it all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So at some point, I'm probably going to have to find one on second hand so that I can make them whenever I want.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at least I was able to test it and make sure it was something I wanted to keep doing because in a past life of my own, you know, I probably would have just gone out and bought all of the things for a new hobby before I realized if I actually wanted to do that hobby.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I take a moment and I say, can I test it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there a way I can get a taste of it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Make sure it's something that I really want to do before adding all of that stuff into my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I do want to add all of that stuff into my life, is there a way I can buy a second hand?
[SPEAKER_01]: I can, you know, resource it out from somewhere, someone else or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think we can do these small things.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's such a, you know, we've become again with the condition consumerism.
[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't always use to be like how it is now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It used to be like it was too expensive for every household to have like to be a Noah's arc with one of everything, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So we would share with each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that wasn't considered weird or, you know, opportunistic or anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember, and I talked about this in the book, I did a TV segment over the pandemic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was talking about bringing back borrowing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, not everybody needs a leaf blower and other.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, you know, and a lot of us live in smaller spaces too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what the where you can put all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, and I got messages from people who had watched the segment who were like, finger wagging to me like, that's shameful.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to go to my neighbor.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought, wow, that I mean, one I thought it was wild, but two.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought this really is emblematic of where we are now in like a mindset as a society that we think it's or some people think it's freaking shameful to go to your neighbor you should be brokering a relationship with anyway right we're all near to kind of help each other out look out for each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: and ask, oh, can I, when it's convenient for you, can I borrow some champagne flutes or can I borrow whatever?
[SPEAKER_00]: And instead, you just avoiding that interaction altogether, going on some online retailer who shall not be named and just buying a bunch of brand new ones for yourself, that's crazy to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that is what, something you use all the time, like you said.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you're probably going to need a food processor.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want you to have a food processor or a mixer, whatever it may be, if it's something you're going to use a lot of, if you're literally just trying out a hobby and getting started in it, why the heck do you need to go out and buy a $500 brand new mixer or something like you don't and we've lost that and not only have we lost that we've vilified that attitude of sharing with each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: in them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, how you just said that we vilify it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, get your neighbors.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're nice people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Usually usually they're nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I usually just need to find some common ground.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, neighbors, but jeez, at least get to know them.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, be helpful and you're, you know, we all say we want the village, you know, but then when it comes time to be like a villager, like a lot of people are like, oh, no, because we're so uncomfortable with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've really lost
[SPEAKER_00]: with some of that piece of our lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a consumerism is driven that, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, do you think we've lost, like, do you think we feel it's okay if someone asks us?
[SPEAKER_01]: And we can be the person that's like, yes, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we feel good about that, but we don't feel okay asking for help.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that, is that what you say?
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting, you know, there's not been research around this.
[SPEAKER_00]: specifically, but for women, there is research around asking for things and not wanting to feel like a burden.
[SPEAKER_00]: The people are not like being endlessly willing to give and be generous to others, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think even just naturally we have that capacity and that kind of impulse.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when it comes to asking for help, time, something you might need, you know, or a physical item, I think can also be put in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: like there are some folks who feel a pause because we worry that will be seen as cheap, goch opportunistic, you know, annoying or a burden to other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's something that I do a little bit, you know, it's not a psychology book necessarily.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a clinical psychologist, but a little bit, I have people kind of confront or at least ask themselves, it is my
[SPEAKER_00]: What is my concern about around that?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the worst case scenario?
[SPEAKER_00]: If I, you know, went on my buy-in-nothing group, and I said, hey, I'm looking for this thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: What am I afraid is going to happen with that?
[SPEAKER_00]: It, you know, am I afraid the request will be fulfilled?
[SPEAKER_00]: And often or act with someone, am I afraid that people will think I'm gross or cheap?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, what is it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because people buy in larger, so much more willing to like step in and help, or answer,
[SPEAKER_00]: The call for something like that, but when it comes to receiving or asking for themselves, I think that there is a pause especially for a lot of women out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I think one thing that would be hard though when I'm doing the challenge, so I'll just put it out here, but I'll tell everyone at the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing the challenge at the end of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So as I'm recording this, this episode will probably come out in about 30 days from when we're recording.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm starting it today so that when the episode comes out, I will be able to report back.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm really excited about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what I'm nervous about is getting my family on board.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a 12 year old.
[SPEAKER_01]: Her birthday will fall.
[SPEAKER_01]: somewhat close to this challenge, so to be interesting to see how all of that plays out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And my husband's first reaction is absolutely just to buy it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't want to burden anyone or he doesn't want to be burdened himself with having to return something, or if it doesn't work right or if he doesn't want to break it or whatever, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So how do you overcome that when
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm just going to do it for myself and things that are going to be considered mine.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what about like shared things?
[SPEAKER_01]: What do we do there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you just, you know, use surrender to the fact that it's not going to be perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is not a challenge of perfection.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no sheriff, you know, no, I'm not out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no, no things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sheriff, that's going, oh, you didn't do anything perfectly or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have actually had say an overwhelming majority of people who've done no new things like before it was even a book, a few people who have huge followings on Instagram, caught wind of it, did the challenge, shared it with their following.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had thousands of people like sign up just in one month in 2022 to do it a bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was sheer a kill right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had her on my show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we can be also.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are quite a few people and she's got million plus followers or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've been quite a few people who've done it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be on the 30 days and so I got a lot of feedback from these many, many people who had, you know, signed up and done the challenge.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of them have.
[SPEAKER_00]: Children, partners, you know, they're in a household situation and that is a big concern for them is like, how do I get my kids on board or whatever?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the answer is you don't like you don't you're going to control what you can control women tend to be the number one purchasers like of their household anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: not always a rule but the data definitely supports that women are the global consumers of the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are the most powerful purchasing cohort that exists because by and large we don't just buy things for ourselves we're buying you know our husband soap or you know the laundry detergent or we're buying our stuff right so we're purchasing and booking most of the vacations most of the cars most of the homes so
[SPEAKER_00]: You have a lot of agency as like, especially a female kind of head of household to you can kind of control the stem of what you buy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, obviously, if your husband's like, we're cut the crap we're buying this new fine, whatever, you know, but when it comes to the stuff that you can control, just focus on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's you're building a muscle.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not something where it needs to be perfect out at the gate over the 30 days, there will be lots of challenges.
[SPEAKER_00]: There will be things that stumble because
[SPEAKER_00]: you're, you're, you're enacting are basically like kind of having a dress rehearsal for living in a way that is a little bit contra to how you've been conditioned since you since you shot out of the womb, you know, like so it's going to feel little uncomfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are going to be what you might perceive to be missteps, but really it's just helping to rewire some of those neural pathways so that you don't feel
[SPEAKER_00]: This same impulse whenever you want to whenever you have a problem and you go and need to buy something right now like something new and I need it today, you know, on prime or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: You take a moment and you have what but why or do I have something else that could fit the bill or could I borrow something taking that pause doing that over the 30 days already is starting to rewire the way that you think about things.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's already going to start to rewire those impulses because you're going to understand where they come from and see them for what they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the real prize at the end of no new things.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not executing it perfectly or having everybody else want to do it perfectly with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: it's it's re-learning and re like kind of deprogramming yourself from looking at consumerism as the end-all be all solution to every potential problem or feeling that you might have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just maybe maybe everyone then just at least having a pause.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether we go by the new thing or not, but at least having a moment of who I really need it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I still buy new things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even new things that are like, you know, not groceries.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I still sometimes buy new clothing, new stuff for my wife.
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, you know, I still do, but I have, I have almost completely waned myself off of and not saying people have to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying shopping is bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying new things are bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know the book is called that, but we had to get a little bit of a clickbait.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm saying that if shopping as recreation is a solution for everything, feels unsustainable or uncomfortable for you, not you specifically, just anyone listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you want to understand that more?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a great way to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you could, I've gotten myself to a point where I don't find shopping, particularly enjoyable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Second hand shopping, maybe, you know, I like a good treasure hunt occasionally, but when it comes to like, oh, going on a website and looking at it, no, I just don't enjoy it anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: At all, that's me.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like a byproduct of having done this since for almost 13 years, often on, but, you know, everybody's mileage might vary.
[SPEAKER_00]: People may have different people do have different outcomes, but they're always
[SPEAKER_00]: really positive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like people have always told me this added to my life and way I didn't think it would.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's interesting because, you know, we were talking about this before I started and I said it, you know, I probably won't be that hard for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure there's going to be some things that come up though.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know there's going to be challenges and things because I have been doing, you know, wanting to be clutter free for a very long time myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh well we'll see we'll see we'll see how it turns out and i i want to be really honest with it because i do think it will be very interesting for people to see how it goes um but i always say i hate shopping but i think there are triggers and there are things that make me want to buy something
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, or go out to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of the things in your book that stuck with me were like the little things you have this trigger tracking journal that you recommend.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you found things like being cold or having a waistband that was too tight, made you more likely to buy things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love how specific and tiny those things were because I'm sure we all have things like that we just don't even.
[SPEAKER_01]: Notice about ourselves, and so can you walk us through how that works and what people are actually, you know, or what you've seen people actually discover about themselves when they started paying more attention.
[SPEAKER_01]: What were some of those things that stuck out to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the trigger tracker kind of came later in the no new things journey just when I was building it for myself and doing it for 30 days back in 2013 after I left my political strategy career.
[SPEAKER_00]: I went on to be a director of marketing and a creative director at some large fortune 50 companies.
[SPEAKER_00]: So essentially you in those roles see how the sausage is made.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you see the amount of psychology that's leveraged to make us feel like we're missing out.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see how important timing is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I talk about this a ton in the book too, because it's not just pulling back the curtain on history of consumerism and over consumption.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also pulling back the curtain on history of marketing and advertising.
[SPEAKER_00]: And how that has evolved into an absolute beast that permeates every single thing we do and see today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, like we, it's so ubiquitous, we have to pay to remove advertising from our streaming services, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I saw how time of day holidays, you know, are you getting your tax return?
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw a kind of all of these timing things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it Valentine's Day?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you feeling excited?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Valentine's Day?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you feeling lonely?
[SPEAKER_00]: you know so like all how all of those things were taken into account and also how people's personal information and data from like loyalty programs and what you've bought.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're also taken into account to know exactly when you want a reminder potentially to buy something or restock.
[SPEAKER_00]: or to think, hey, if she's bought these things, she'll probably be interested in this, which is something we see now on every single website that we go on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you like this, or probably like this, or other people bought these things together, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is now becoming like a fixture.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and then there's also data that shows, like, if you've been to a mall recently, I know they're dark off, but I talk about this in the book as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: malls were like intentionally designed in the early days of malls to have very little natural light so that you would be attracted to the artificial light that was blindingly illuminating the merchandise.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were also capped extremely cold like thing about this and the I grew up in Texas in the summers when we were we'd be roasted in that house.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'd go to the mall.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we'd be like begging to go to the mall and just do a spin around the mall because it was so cold and think about other places of consumption.
[SPEAKER_00]: Movie theaters, grocery stores, you know, big box stores.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are intentionally capped very, very cold.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a reason for that, and it's scientifically backed up.
[SPEAKER_00]: We as human beings are less likely to make cogent decisions when we are cold.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are more likely to give into our impulses because we want to be warm.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're more likely to be like, oh, you know, screw it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to buy this thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm uncomfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that can extend to a lot of other things too when it comes to buying stuff, and especially with women, because the data shows,
[SPEAKER_00]: If we're procrastinating, if we're feeling sad, if we're feeling uncomfortable, if we're feeling bored, if we're hungry, you know, if our bras digging into our side, or our waistband, like you said, we're going to be like, you know what, screw it, you know, and just buy something.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're more likely to.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not saying that's the cause for us buying it, but like, we're looking for a self.
[SPEAKER_00]: for our feelings.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the trigger tracker is not meant to be this arduous thing where every second of the day you go to be like, I'm feeling sad and I wanted to buy a perfume.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that it's if you are looking to buy something, it's really important.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you are like, can't stop thinking about that thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's important to take a pause.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're putting in that artificial pause there and we're asking What time is it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's important.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, is it your midday slump when you're procrastinating on a work project or you're feeling bored Or you hate your boss or your kids acting up.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it?
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you feeling at that time?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you feeling what are not just feeling like oh, I want to buy this thing, but how am I feeling as far as you know like emotionally how are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: or physically how am I feeling?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like does your back hurt?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, maybe that's why you want to buy something because you're like, well, get some set.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll get some dopamine another way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I have people track how much the item is and where they've seen it because by and large you're not seeing it on a billboard.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not seeing it in the newspaper, like we used to see it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're probably seeing it on social media, tends to be how we see it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And among so many people and especially women who shared with me when they first did no new things, and since it's been out as a book, their experiences with tracking their triggers.
[SPEAKER_00]: So many women had very similar, what I would say, like pain points, or like vulnerability times.
[SPEAKER_00]: Night time.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're scrolling on your phone as we do because you know, that's the new recreation, you see something and usually that something feels like a potential solution to a way that you're feeling and it's not a good way you're feeling about yourself maybe you're feeling.
[SPEAKER_00]: big or old or fugly.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, and I'm not saying people look like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the truth.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we all feel that, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so then all the sudden you see some 22-year-old Hawking thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is it for me or peptides or whatever the frick it is, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And you, I need that posture changing bra or whatever, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we think this is going to fix me.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is going to fix it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that tends to be like a pretty common pain point, but we wouldn't know that about ourselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's going to have different pain points for, you know, you, it could be after dinner.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, you know, I mean, I'm in my mid 40s.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to lie that the getting older thing is starting to, starting to affect me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, sure, in a society where women aren't really allowed to age as well, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, that can feel very, where it's not to make it a gender war.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, men, you know, we look at them as older.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're allowed.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're looking, they're distinguished.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're distinguished.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's exactly the women are like used up.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're kind of expired, you know, like, and that's again marketing as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or my favorite is she looks good for her age, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is unfortunately a reality of not the system is built and has been upheld, but the marketing leverages those messages to show us that these are things, these natural kind of biological things, right, are things that we need to be continually improving upon.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you'll see a lot of those advertisements or you'll see those products that you think will
[SPEAKER_00]: at those vulnerable times, and then you're going to be like, oh, I need that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want that, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we all want to be better.
[SPEAKER_00]: We want to feel great about ourselves, and as we live in that condition, consumerism where we're like, okay, well, things are going to fix my problem, and then everything will be better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those tend to be kind of the pain points for people.
[SPEAKER_00]: but everybody's different.
[SPEAKER_00]: That just was one kind of common thread that I've noticed, anecdotally, is a something a lot of women experience who do the challenge.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you're, you know, as you track even for like a week, and it doesn't have to be like thousands of items.
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, sometimes it's like five items a day or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a little notes up on my phone.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just put it in there, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: I find like,
[SPEAKER_00]: midday for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm hitting a slump.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm bored.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm procrastinating on stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Suddenly I'm browsing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, suddenly I feel like, you know, what I really need is a vintage t-shirt.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like instead of doing this project, I need to be doing or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of having that difficult conversation or, you know, dealing with bath time or whatever it is, I'm going to go and look at makeup or whatever it might be.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, I think that's kind of, you learned so much about yourself when you look at it as like a data collection moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Without much of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Without much of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you can write out the two to seven minutes by doing something else by like tracking how you're feeling But maybe also by doing, you know, a walk or making yourself a coffee or whatever it might be Retailers, hate that they put that Because it means you're probably Significantly less likely to come back to that item and go still want it really bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: You may come back and say
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I need that thing, and that's going to add value and utility and beauty to my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's go.
[SPEAKER_00]: But by and large, you're probably going to come back with a very clear idea of like, do I need an infrared sauna for my house, probably not, you know, like, and you're going to have that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of, you know, consumerism, too, relies on us making that very quick decision in that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: In seven minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why if you leave a card abandoned,
[SPEAKER_00]: online.
[SPEAKER_00]: Girl, you're going to get the lot of emails.
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw you look at too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you see something you like?
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to be getting coupons because they know once they've lost you in that two to seven minutes, you gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they don't want to lose your business.
[SPEAKER_00]: They want to sell you things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can find other stuff to do in that time period, which I kind of go through a whole thing of how people, you know, making a love list other things you can do to get ahead of dopamine that don't evolve hitting by you're going to be mastering your impulses around this like an absolute boss.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, honestly, I could talk to you all day, but I do want to get to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk quickly through the super system because I think people think no new things, oh, that means I don't get to buy anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is not the case.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have this lovely acronym that walks people through different ways to bring things into their home, that are not necessarily new.
[SPEAKER_01]: So can we walk through, walk us through that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wanted to have something that was kind of a literative and easy to remember for folks.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the super system is really just the mindset, the no-new things mindset, and it has categories to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, traditional consumerism is a very capitalistic.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not anti-capitalist, but it's very capitalistic way of getting your needs met.
[SPEAKER_00]: I identify something that's not working or something that I'm feeling I buy a new thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what we're kind of habituated to now.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where we're at.
[SPEAKER_00]: The super system is a much more circular.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say like regenerative kind of community and resourcefulness based way to get your needs met that also happens to be very good for the planet and for your wallet.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the S, if this is basically like any time you think you need a thing and your impulses to go buy it, you're going to think super.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the S is
[SPEAKER_00]: secondhand.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this can be, you know, a lot of brand new things are out on secondhand marketplaces.
[SPEAKER_00]: I see all that, you know, consumerism is so ubiquitous people by things for death that they had them never return them tags still on, doesn't fit, boom, it's on posh mark.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can still get that kind of, ooh, it's new.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, to me,
[SPEAKER_00]: on a second-hand marketplace if that matters to you so it's thinking second-hand first like if I need to get a need map how can I get this second hand and nowadays you can pretty much get anything second hand okay so that's from graphing calculators to perfume you know all sorts of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, second hand first, the next one, you is upcycling, repurposing, or reimagining.
[SPEAKER_00]: Chances are you probably have something in your home that fits the bill or could be a solution to the problem or challenge or need your experiencing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, we've been coerced out of that resourcefulness mindset, and we've also been fed this narrative that so many things in our lives only serve one function.
[SPEAKER_00]: because that's like really good for marketing too, to be like, this plastic cup is only a drinking vessel.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we just, we've lost all our imagination when it comes to getting our needs met and being resourceful.
[SPEAKER_00]: So thinking how do I have something that's already kicking around that I can use or maybe slightly modify or maybe if you're really into like upcycling, you can big modify something, but do you already have something that meets this need?
[SPEAKER_00]: Chances are probably yes, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is going on a by-nothing group.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you live in an area that has like a vibrant stupid culture like New York or Chicago or whatever, you might be able to find things for free that are pretty dope.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's paying nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are plenty of things out there that you can get for free.
[SPEAKER_00]: I highly recommend if somebody's not already on there, though, I'm sure a lot of your listeners and viewers are a by-nothing group, a free cycle group, a next-door group
[SPEAKER_00]: sharing and giving away things is tops.
[SPEAKER_00]: Love it a great way to get your needs met.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the E is experiences.
[SPEAKER_00]: This goes more for giving gifts.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, to yourself or to other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of times like people, a big worry is if I do know new things or if I live in this way, how am I still gonna be generous and give people gifts that they freaking love?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, one, you're going to focus on experiences over things for yourself and for others.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that could be, hey, best friend, I'm taking us to this Pilates class we wanted to go to.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to a concert.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to get drunk as hell at this concert.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be lit or it's like, hey, I'm going to give you like a day of baby sitting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can get the heck out of the house and do your thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever it is, thinking kind of experiences and also donations like money and stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want people to still be generous and support their community and the needs that are
[SPEAKER_00]: that kind of is more around like giving to others but also giving to yourself and how you experience like recreation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's R which is renting borrowing and sharing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So back to that borrowing piece of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Renting, you know, if you've got a function, there's so many clothing rental options.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do a lot about door activities.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are so many rental options for that as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then just, you know, also sharing like I share if I'm going somewhere my friends and I we know
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if I require, they require something special, we're hitting each other up before we ever even go to the consignment store or anywhere we're hitting each other up to see what we have and we're rating each other's closets and seeing what's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's sharing piece.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the R as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the super system.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you can just think with that lens on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of always defaulting to, I'm gonna buy this new thing, you're already starting to rewire some of those habits that by and large might be keeping you if you're like the average American broke, stressed, living in a cluttered hellhole.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, not saying that if it's living in a hellhole, but like, I know I certainly wasn't one point in time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna make you so much more discerning with those, and you're also creativity is a muscle.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we don't use it that much, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we are so conditioned to just let me buy a new thing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And instead, you're going to be working your creativity muscle, which just continues to build, and you're also going to be working your connection muscle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I know you talk about this a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I talk about this in the book.
[SPEAKER_00]: The data is irrefutable.
[SPEAKER_00]: We live in one of the freaking loneliness times.
[SPEAKER_00]: And most isolated times.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet we have all these high touch, communication devices and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we are some of the loneliest, most isolated people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we have lost the art of connecting with each other in real life, in person.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's one of the biggest things from like joining a by-nothing group.
[SPEAKER_00]: sharing with your friends on things, calling upon them if you need something, having a clothing swap, whatever it might be, you are fostering those connections that are so, not just satisfying, they're freaking needed, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't get that from, you know, going on chat, GPT, or you can't get that from scrolling Instagram reels.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you're also, that's one of the things that people say they really like about this challenge is it kind of forced
[SPEAKER_00]: to forge in-person relationships.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not everybody's going to be your best friend or whatever, but like force them to have those in-person interactions and relationships with people that they felt were really satisfying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's fantastic and I think now more than ever we are going to need creativity as we move into the next I don't know the next year the next decade the next millennia because I think we are losing so much of that we just scroll and I just I go out and I just watch everybody's on their phone like I mean at least I drive a lot so there's not as many people in their phone I would imagine if I'm taking the public transit everybody's on their phone.
[SPEAKER_01]: they're not talking to each other and I'm granted.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember living in the city.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't want to talk to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm strangers on the boat.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to be trying to, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, when I talked to random people on the train, there were a few strange characters.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I would read a book.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's just not how it goes anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just so interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so many people, their first thing in the morning and before they go to bed is look at their phone and scroll.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think if there's anything we can do to bring back some
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm all for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so trust me, guys, I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please pick up the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, new things.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ashley tell people where they can find you and where they can find your book.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you can find the book pretty much wherever you want to get the book.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's in, if you don't, I'm well aware that a book is a thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's also an e-book, an audio book, narrated by me, so if you didn't head for the Hills when you heard my voice, you might like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: you can find the book in all sorts of libraries and then wherever you choose to buy the book.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think having the physical book is helpful when you're doing the challenge, but you can find it pretty much anywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: For sure, and then me, Ardlan and Instagram, is probably my most accessible place at Ashlete Hyper.
[SPEAKER_00]: Two weeks, no why.
[SPEAKER_01]: to ease.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we got to make sure you spell it right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say that I will link to the book on like thrift books as well as the other places because again, we can buy a second hand.
[SPEAKER_01]: It can be the first S that we do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we'll go there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: My favorite way to end every episode though is with three rapid fire questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: So number one.
[SPEAKER_01]: What does clutter free mean to you?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think
[SPEAKER_00]: clutter free means a life of intentionality.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like a life that looks like it lines up with the intention.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, my calendar, it might be full, but it's not cluttered with a bunch of stuff that I don't want to do or that doesn't, you know, doesn't contribute to the kind of life I want to lead.
[SPEAKER_00]: My home might not be the most minimalist but everything here.
[SPEAKER_00]: has the intention of utility and bringing joy or beauty and ease into my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just kind of how I spend my time and what I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I think we think of clutter as like a physical thing always, but there's so much of like clutter of the mind, clutter of your schedule, you know, clutter of the relationships you have.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think like an uncluttered life by and large as one
[SPEAKER_00]: how much do the things and the activities and the people in your life line up with your vision and intention of your best life?
[SPEAKER_00]: Love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a great definition.
[SPEAKER_01]: Number two, what is something that is making you happy right now or in the season of life?
[SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, well one, I think like the weather is getting a little nicer here in Chicago, so that's certainly a delight.
[SPEAKER_00]: And another thing is,
[SPEAKER_00]: not to get like so deep with it, but like I am trusting my first instincts and impulses not around shopping, but around other things, more, and that is also something that's like a bit of a muscle and something that requires like you to to work on it and get reconnected to it, but that's been bringing me a lot of like peace and joy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then a lot of exciting experiences too that I wouldn't have that I would have maybe talked myself out of, you know, or I would have kind of been like, oh, that's kind of cookie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why am I doing that?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it, you know, I trust my first impulse sense of being great.
[SPEAKER_01]: So good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the third one.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is something you want listeners to take away from today's conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: that you're extremely powerful, but if there's something in your life that is especially is related to what no new things address is, you can start today and you absolutely, I have seen people move the needles so incredibly in their lives and
[SPEAKER_00]: Wrangle habits that we're really making them miserable, uncomfortable, broke, you know, fearful about looking at their bank account or their home or whatever it was, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have seen people transform like absolutely rock their shit by doing the challenge even for a week.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you as an individual are incredibly powerful and to make change in your own life and also to incorporate some of these habits that make for a better world as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So good, perfect way to end it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Ashley, thank you so much for joining us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, DNR, Pat, such a great time chatting with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Me too, are you cheers?
[SPEAKER_01]: I told you it was going to be a good episode, and it totally was.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I have to be honest with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: After Ashley and I recorded this episode, I was supposed to launch into a public 30-day challenge.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just didn't and I'm very sorry for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very upset with myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not doing it, but that's just not where I was at this point in my life, things got busy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so while I didn't do the traditional 30 day challenge, I did pay attention to what I bought.
[SPEAKER_01]: I looked back through over our expenses.
[SPEAKER_01]: and I saw some patterns emerge and it's really interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to talk about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: There were some good things.
[SPEAKER_01]: There were some definite wins.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to start with those.
[SPEAKER_01]: We my daughter was invited to a friend's birthday party.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we did a gift card for a consumable.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we also gifted her a soap that obviously had not been used.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was like a smell good like foamy soap that my daughter loves.
[SPEAKER_01]: We bought a bunch of them when we went to Germany.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we still have some leftover.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so she gifted her one of those.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it felt like we were gifting a personalized gift for her of something that we liked, but it wasn't new.
[SPEAKER_01]: We already had it in our home.
[SPEAKER_01]: We also went to a thrift store to get some jeans, while we were looking for shorts for my daughter, couldn't find them, so we bought some jeans, and we converted them into shorts.
[SPEAKER_01]: That felt really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: We replaced things that were worn out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that felt really good while they weren't secondhand
[SPEAKER_01]: acquired through like a by nothing group or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did feel okay by a new because we were replacing things that had been totally more now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm looking at a water bottle that gets used all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And each of us only has one water bottle.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm out of time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we don't collect them even if they are things that are a little.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to show my Stanley here that are a little trendy this I won so I did not buy it My daughter does have an awala, but she used it up and it was it's pretty destroyed.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she got a new one But it was also part of a birthday present in Converse.
[SPEAKER_01]: She got a pair of Converse shoes, but she only gets one pair at a time Where's them until they're worn out and then gets a new pair?
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you okay about buying things like that when we are cognizant about what we're buying and not
[SPEAKER_01]: buying in abundance, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then in the episode, we also talked about how, you know, you can only control what you can control.
[SPEAKER_01]: So my husband has his own account on Amazon.
[SPEAKER_01]: And while it's not prime, he does make sure he hits the limit before he buys things, but he did buy a few things on there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like some workout straps and a couple other things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't quite remember off the top of my head.
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, we can only control what we can control.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I have one more big win.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are actually refinishing, but when I see we eye, and refinishing our outdoor dining table.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I had stained it about five years ago when we moved in.
[SPEAKER_01]: The stain has since worn off.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really weathered.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so instead of buying a new one though, I am refinishing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sanding it all down.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to remake the cushions.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to reuse the foam.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to take apart the cushions that are already there and use the zippers from them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to still my own cushion.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like that's a win as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm, you know, it's a big project and it's going to take me a while and I'm in the middle of it right now, but I'm going to be so proud when it is done.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so those kinds of things I feel okay about because while I am buying a few new things like the material to make the cushions.
[SPEAKER_01]: and I'm having to buy things like sandpaper and I'm going to have to buy the wax and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not buying an entire new table, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm, and I'm, it's going to be something that I love and that I cherish and I think that's one of the things that Ashley really talks about.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not looking for perfectionism.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're looking for, you know, reality and being cognizant about what we buy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me tell you where I failed and this is the thing that I did not expect and this is where I really learned something about myself and
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's part of it as well, like when you fail or when you think you failed because again nobody's here as Ashley says she's not the police it's going to come you know the no new things police it's going to come knocking your door and give you a citation or anything But it's just eye opening for you to see where you feel like you fell short within the challenge and my biggest purchasing trigger turns out to be mom guilt.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in the end, it's not really that surprising, but it's the one area where I give myself a lot more leeway to buy new.
[SPEAKER_01]: So my daughter's birthday came up in between here.
[SPEAKER_01]: You heard me mention it on the show, or on the podcast while I was talking to Ashley.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I bought new birthday decor.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she didn't ask for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't need it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I felt like she deserved a beautiful birthday and buying things just made me feel like I could show my love that way, which I know it's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that my love is not shown in the, you know, plastic decor that I bought to put up in my house.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel bad about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I also loved having it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think it was just really eye opening to see what those triggers were.
[SPEAKER_01]: in order to know, okay, next time can I plan ahead a little bit?
[SPEAKER_01]: If I know that I'm going to want to buy new decor for my daughter or do something special for her birthday or for the holidays, you know, is there something I can put on my calendar?
[SPEAKER_01]: A month ahead of time to say, hey, heads up, this is coming up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember, you know what's coming up, but last time you just defaulted to the buy new, is there's some way you can reach out
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, my buy nothing group is very active and they're very generous.
[SPEAKER_01]: I should have reached out to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sure I would have been able to get something to use through that group.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's something I definitely want to do in the future.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's just a good thing to know that this is a trigger for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so now I can be.
[SPEAKER_01]: more aware of it and I can look at it and I can sit with that and figure out ways to go around it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that is what's so powerful about the no new things challenge.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not that you can't do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not that you, you know, have to do everything perfectly.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just going to show you a light on, you know, some areas where you might want to improve if you want to.
[SPEAKER_01]: And as someone who doesn't buy a lot of things, you know, I'm I'm pretty proud of myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to try the No New Things Challenge, I encourage you to pick up Ashley's book.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's called No New Things, and you can find it wherever books are sold.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I am going to link to a secondhand bookstore where I like to buy a lot of my books.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I want to buy something new, so that's going to be something like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a place that if you want to pick up a book secondhand and start using her super acronym, this is a great place to start.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can also find it at your library, and they also have it on the Libby app.
[SPEAKER_01]: So check that out as well if you prefer audio books.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can also find Ashley on Instagram at Ashley Piper.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will link to that in the show notes so you can just click on through and if you want the full conversation including the super system for getting your needs met without buying anything new, all the links are in the show notes at 1bcolleterfree.com slash 317.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you again to Ashley for being here.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was such a great conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really, really enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I am just honored that she came on this show to help us out with buying no new things.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Next week, I have a solo episode coming your way.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to want to miss it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be all about tiny, tidy moments that you can have in your life that are going to make a huge difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Until next time, track one trigger this week and notice what's really underneath it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Try one thing secondhand before you buy it new and remember a clutter free home isn't built in a day.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's built one decision at a time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe in you and I know you can do anything you set your mind to.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Deanna Gates and you've been listening to want to be clutter free.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll see you next week.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cheers.