[UNKNOWN]: The Survivor Specialists are back in today.
[UNKNOWN]: We are continuing our winning Survivor Series, talking seasons 31 through 35 Cambodia to Heroes of Retailers versus Hustlers.
[UNKNOWN]: I refuse to type that out west.
[UNKNOWN]: I wasn't doing it.
[UNKNOWN]: H-A-J-J.
[UNKNOWN]: Maybe that would get us better triple H, that'll get us better algorithm, SEO, whatever.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: I refuse to type it out west.
[UNKNOWN]: Welcome back.
[UNKNOWN]: We're less than 12 hours removed.
[UNKNOWN]: really like 13 hours removed from our last podcast where we cover 26 through 30.
[UNKNOWN]: So if you're hearing this one going, why are they putting this out on a Friday afternoon?
[UNKNOWN]: Make sure you go check out our other one as well.
[UNKNOWN]: We're going to be off next week and then we'll be back on July 23rd to put out the 36 through 40.
[UNKNOWN]: So a little bit of a high eight is after this one.
[UNKNOWN]: But Wes, welcome back.
[UNKNOWN]: I know it's been so long since we talked.
[UNKNOWN]: How are you feeling on this very early
[UNKNOWN]: I think we should have planned out our hate as to be after winners of war, just like when Survivor had their hiatus, but we did not plan that out at all.
[UNKNOWN]: You had a change of your negation, man.
[UNKNOWN]: I know, it's exactly why we're not doing next week.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm gone next Thursday.
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, I'm looking forward to talking about this group.
[UNKNOWN]: I know that you said yesterday when we did that podcast that Cambodia was the beginning of a huge shift in the game.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, I was thinking about it.
[UNKNOWN]: I think
[UNKNOWN]: So it's always like, Sarra always plants a seed to something before they really commit to it, most of the time it seems like.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think the seeds are planted when they give the extra vote to Dan in World's Apart at the auction.
[UNKNOWN]: Actually, the seeds for what happens with the Van Gerra.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, it was such a huge thing.
[UNKNOWN]: But now, like getting extra votes just
[UNKNOWN]: You know, like in modern survival, it's like whatever.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, okay, doesn't ever mean anything, never really amounts to much.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And maybe it's affected, but like we're talking 20 seasons and affected like one, maybe two votes in the history of the show in any meaningful way.
[UNKNOWN]: But it was treated like some landmark moment on 30.
[UNKNOWN]: And here we're in Cambodia where the show continues to shift more into this.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and so we'll be talking about these obviously in the order that the they aired, but I I've been saying this a lot because I just rewatch these seasons if you watch co-wrong before Cambodia, you actually see the trajectory the show was on a lot better.
[UNKNOWN]: because Cambodia, the thing is world's apart into co-wrong.
[UNKNOWN]: Co-wrong's a lot more similar to world's apart than you'd think.
[UNKNOWN]: A much more villainous cast, more negative.
[UNKNOWN]: They do do the super idle thing, but they don't overwhelm you with advantages and twists and different things like that.
[UNKNOWN]: then they get the Cambodia and they do overwhelmed you with it and it was people who were voted in and you see that they're putting more of an effort on the joy you're getting from survivor and these trust clusters and all these different things and obviously Cambodia happens first so when you watch it in the order that at which it comes out you actually feel like you're almost going back in time.
[UNKNOWN]: a little bit after Cambodia because you're like, wait, this doesn't feel like a natural progression, whereas if you go co-wrong Cambodia models or Shenex, it feels like a very natural progression.
[UNKNOWN]: And like you're saying, it kind of started with world's apart, and then co-wrong had one other thing as well with the super idol and combining the idols.
[UNKNOWN]: And then having the very, the juror, even though we can go, yeah, that's a good point.
[UNKNOWN]: I almost like that was made up though, because they had an extra of
[UNKNOWN]: They needed extra thing for their challenge.
[UNKNOWN]: I could be wrong.
[UNKNOWN]: I could have been there the whole time.
[UNKNOWN]: I think you might be right, though, because they weren't planning on three medevacs.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think with the three medevacs, that really screwed them up.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think they wanted to ensure it was a final three, which in my opinion, one of the best final three is the show's ever had.
[UNKNOWN]: But yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: you see it though after that like if you go in that order of co-wrong to Cambodia after Cambodia it's like Monio's version X game changers heroes healers hustlers.
[UNKNOWN]: They're just throwing everything at the wall and I'm kind stealing a reward or they want him to steal a reward.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, all they really want about to
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so think that they did Cambodia and then game changers like one year apart like building two seasons apart with the way production worked it's just insane like they don't they don't do that anymore They're like so anti doing returny seasons They did two full blown ones because they were so excited about Cambodia and Jeff wanted some of this, you know, his favorites on game changers with Brad call pepper and Troy's ants specifically
[UNKNOWN]: that didn't get out of Cambodia.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's like, yeah, it's definitely the seeds are always there for things to come.
[UNKNOWN]: We just hope that survivor ignores them, but survivor, it can never ignores the things we want them to.
[UNKNOWN]: They're like, oh, here's the thing that you like that didn't work one time.
[UNKNOWN]: We get rid of it.
[UNKNOWN]: Here's the thing that didn't work that nobody likes.
[UNKNOWN]: We're doing it again, but harder, you know, it's usually how it goes.
[UNKNOWN]: And so this is a stretch.
[UNKNOWN]: This ends the stretch.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm doing the
[UNKNOWN]: of what we have from 2234 we have eight returning players seasons at with at least one returning player and only and three of those are full returning player seasons in that stretch and then we have 40 obviously and then we don't have another one until 50.
[UNKNOWN]: I also think the reason why they run on 45 that's not returning player season yeah I think I think the other reason
[UNKNOWN]: doing returning player seasons and why winners at war at 40 rather than like a full legend season might have happened is because game changers was not popular and because people really didn't like game changers and I think that that might have had an impact on this and it might be why game changers was really the last returning player season that wasn't all winners for 16 seasons like that is an insane number and I think it was just because it wasn't very popular but we'll get there in a bit we're going to talk about Jeremy first because you know what a history podcast was even though sometimes I feel like we might be
[UNKNOWN]: Well, I do enjoy talking about the context of seasons and whatnot at the same time.
[UNKNOWN]: We could talk about strictly the winners, but I find joy and talk about all of it.
[UNKNOWN]: And of course, I'm just bringing up things that come to my mind that I want to talk about.
[UNKNOWN]: But yes, we're here to talk about the winners.
[UNKNOWN]: Jeremy Collins specifically.
[UNKNOWN]: I've said it all the way through every episode of our podcast, talking about
[UNKNOWN]: the blueprint for a winner, and the blueprint I think I would follow would be Jeremy Collins on Cambodia.
[UNKNOWN]: This to me is not only do a lot of winners, I think follow this mostly, but I think that it's a very smart way approaching his social games, very smart ways to ease reveals things at the right time, like Jerry plays a near-flawless game and that reflects in the stats.
[UNKNOWN]: The fact that he
[UNKNOWN]: negating them.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, like there's a perfect game with an asterisk next to it because it's not a perfect game, but man, oh man, is it as close as you can get considering like he can't control people from not voting for him, but he plays out to stop their votes, but one time it happened.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and we got glad the impeller saying to Jeremy benefit from being Loki and non threat coming to Cambodia.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, he did, but I think he was also like a mid to your threat coming into this cast.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think he was as low of a threat as you would see.
[UNKNOWN]: Sure, Venus is a bigger threat, you know, some of the older school players, you might be looking at a little bit more like Steven Fishback, but you know, you did have Kelly Wentworth.
[UNKNOWN]: You did have Keith Nail.
[UNKNOWN]: You did have Kenny Kappenberg.
[UNKNOWN]: You did have Abby Maria, you did have like,
[UNKNOWN]: Cass, who nobody was really thinking of as a winner.
[UNKNOWN]: Yud Monika Padilla, who nobody really understood anything about her game.
[UNKNOWN]: You had Jeff Barner, who people weren't sure what he was going to bring to the season.
[UNKNOWN]: So I think Jeremy was very much in the middle, whereas opposed to like poverty in fans versus favorites one, feel like she was at the bottom of that level.
[UNKNOWN]: And I even feel like Sandra and Heroes versus Villains was lower than she should have been, even though she was a winner just because of some of the legendary status of some of those players and resency bias and all of those different things.
[UNKNOWN]: Here's our films.
[UNKNOWN]: They couldn't rewatch seasons the same way they can now.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: Like rewatching Pearl ends is so much more accessible than it was until nine.
[UNKNOWN]: So it gives a little context for my Sandra went on to the radar.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think Jeremy, what he barely made the merge in San Juan del Surveille recall.
[UNKNOWN]: He was the second one out.
[UNKNOWN]: It was John and him.
[UNKNOWN]: Yep.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, do you count what's your name, Quitting?
[UNKNOWN]: Julie?
[UNKNOWN]: I think your name is Julie.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, so Julie Quate, then Josh went, then Jeremy.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: So he was going to really count Julie Quate against part of them.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, half of the marriage, but yeah, she just got out of there.
[UNKNOWN]: I actually respect that move of her just being like, these people don't like me and I don't like them, so I'm just going to leave.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't want to be here.
[UNKNOWN]: So what I really though love about Jeremy's game and if you were to just look at this season without watching the season,
[UNKNOWN]: And you'd watch Caggy on and you'd watch every season up to this.
[UNKNOWN]: If I had revealed the boot order to you, and here's the boot list, but you're not watching a tape place, and you see Jeremy goes to the end with Spencer and beats him 10 nothing.
[UNKNOWN]: You're going, oh, wow, that's crazy.
[UNKNOWN]: Because in Caggy on, Spencer was everybody's favorite.
[UNKNOWN]: People thought Spencer would have won that game.
[UNKNOWN]: Spencer gets to the end.
[UNKNOWN]: He's probably revered as one of the best winners in the show's history.
[UNKNOWN]: And instead, Spencer comes back 2.0.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a terrible story.
[UNKNOWN]: The editing makes no sense.
[UNKNOWN]: And, but he sits there next to Jeremy and Jeremy beats him.
[UNKNOWN]: So if you were to look at this without actually watching the season play out, you'd say, wow, he went to the end with one of the biggest threats in the game and not for nothing, Tasha really didn't understand the game of Survivor as well.
[UNKNOWN]: She's a pretty good player in Caggyon.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think she was a good game here.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but it's like, wow, he went to the end with two threats.
[UNKNOWN]: If he sits next to Wentworth and Keith, even though Wentworth probably played a better game, then Spencer and Tasha, and probably gets more votes in both of them.
[UNKNOWN]: If he goes to the end with them and you look at that, you say, Oh, the three who not who's from Sam on those are get to the end.
[UNKNOWN]: He beats these two people that nobody really saw as great players.
[UNKNOWN]: That's what you would think if you looked at it.
[UNKNOWN]: Instead, Jeremy just plays a better game.
[UNKNOWN]: Then a lot of players that people were reviewing coming into the season, I really proved that San Juan Dosa was kind of a fluke, and it was just a weird cast that made it so he couldn't get further.
[UNKNOWN]: I think part of why he beats Spencer Tasha so easily, especially Spencer, because that's really the person that a lot of people see themselves in and also see his rod because of his whole storyline, I think, a lot of the story is older married with kids or has kids, like I think Kimmy is not married to has kids, I'm recalling correctly.
[UNKNOWN]: And people vote for the winner they want to represent their season and when you see somebody who's married with kids and also, you know, Jeremy's like, I'm having a boy, you know, it's a big deal to me.
[UNKNOWN]: Like people who have kids can relate to that and then you get Spencer who his storyline is I finally said I love you to my girlfriend.
[UNKNOWN]: It's harder to relate to that when you're already married or you've already had kids like that part of your life is so long ago.
[UNKNOWN]: If this jury was made up of college kids, Spencer probably wins.
[UNKNOWN]: Or because it's not Jeremy wins.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not saying that's guaranteed.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm saying, the jury was older and therefore related to Jeremy more than Toshan Spencer.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and I think even when you look at the younger people who were there, you look at like, Sierra is the youngest person on that jury, but she's a single mom.
[UNKNOWN]: like she has with that point.
[UNKNOWN]: So I also think the problem is Spencer's robot arc didn't actually change the show just tried to tell us it was changing.
[UNKNOWN]: Spencer, when people start bringing up Gamebot, will and I did this for a Patreon podcast.
[UNKNOWN]: Like
[UNKNOWN]: long time ago now or somebody said rank the best game box.
[UNKNOWN]: We really had a hard time naming a game bot other than Spencer because Spencer is the quintessential game bot and I think Spencer being who Spencer was really that that invented this term game bot and people started getting lumped in there who weren't truly game bots like
[UNKNOWN]: Spencer tried to do the social game, but it was so transparent and he obviously doesn't have his bad of a social game as somebody like Russell hands But he doesn't happen at all in Jeremy social game was excellent now Spencer and and Tasha are the ones who tell you know Jeremy hey
[UNKNOWN]: What's talking about Jeremy's worst move?
[UNKNOWN]: Hey Jeremy, Kimmy's coming for you at Final Six.
[UNKNOWN]: What have been?
[UNKNOWN]: Absolutely brilliant move by Kimmy.
[UNKNOWN]: If she was able to pull it off, Jeremy doesn't want to believe it.
[UNKNOWN]: So he can pick up on those things.
[UNKNOWN]: But when it came to the social game, you know, Cas was saying it after Caggy on like Spencer's, this is not who he is as a person.
[UNKNOWN]: The edit is not showing who he really is.
[UNKNOWN]: And then in Cambodia, they tried to really like drive home that he was this changed guy.
[UNKNOWN]: He plays the exact same game.
[UNKNOWN]: And he's still using people as pawns.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's why he ultimately gets zero votes at the end.
[UNKNOWN]: and Jeremy who everybody connected with on a real human level even beyond the kid thing ends up sweeping the jerk.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, Jeremy social media was superior.
[UNKNOWN]: It's interesting though when you watch the Kaiaian Ponderosa videos that you see all these people telling Spencer, we would have voted for you to win.
[UNKNOWN]: We would have voted for you to win.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's just adds fuel to the fire of Spencer getting zero votes in Cambodia.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, okay, what was different?
[UNKNOWN]: you know, what was different with this cast?
[UNKNOWN]: Because it's only year removed.
[UNKNOWN]: Kai Gan was just almost a two years ago.
[UNKNOWN]: Kai Gan would have been two years ago if you can't figure it out.
[UNKNOWN]: So, you know, he's, he's more mature.
[UNKNOWN]: He's a little older, not too much older, but it's like what's different?
[UNKNOWN]: It's the cast.
[UNKNOWN]: It's one thousand times the cast because the Spencer is basically the same person as he was first time around.
[UNKNOWN]: And just doesn't get the respect.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think that props to Jeremy,
[UNKNOWN]: You know, props to Jeremy for connecting with everybody and make, and I think Jeremy was also a threat to win winners at war as well, he just couldn't make the moves to get to the end, but I think he was a threat to win that season too if he gets the end.
[UNKNOWN]: I totally agree.
[UNKNOWN]: I think Jeremy's game disappoints me a little bit in winners at war because he doesn't take that next step to get to the end and therefore his his game seems so passive And I think that's the thing with Jeremy's game.
[UNKNOWN]: Jeremy doesn't win.
[UNKNOWN]: It is a passive game.
[UNKNOWN]: He's constantly looking to keep bigger threats in the game.
[UNKNOWN]: He wants fish back.
[UNKNOWN]: He wants Joe.
[UNKNOWN]: He wants savage.
[UNKNOWN]: He wants Spencer because all those people are going to be seen as bigger threats than him.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think that's why Cambodia is so satisfying for a lot of people.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, I don't love that the final five is from two seasons and three of the final five in starting tribe.
[UNKNOWN]: That's a final seven from two seasons plus Abbey Maria, I think.
[UNKNOWN]: Plus Abbey Maria, like, and so it really didn't have forgotten.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it really bothers me.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's when you get down.
[UNKNOWN]: What is it?
[UNKNOWN]: It's a final eight.
[UNKNOWN]: You're talking six of your final eight or from the three most recent seasons.
[UNKNOWN]: Plus thing you have Abby Maria in there can be the only old schooler.
[UNKNOWN]: And there were so many great old school casting choices on this season.
[UNKNOWN]: Savage, Terry, P.D.
[UNKNOWN]: Varner at the time.
[UNKNOWN]: I know people will say no now, but Varner coming into Cambodia.
[UNKNOWN]: That was an incredible
[UNKNOWN]: incredible casting choice.
[UNKNOWN]: So popular.
[UNKNOWN]: It comes back again three seasons later.
[UNKNOWN]: You had, you know, you had all these people Kelly Wigglesworth.
[UNKNOWN]: We wanted to see them and then it's Kimmy who ends up being the one who goes the furthest out of those old schoolers.
[UNKNOWN]: That's a bummer to me.
[UNKNOWN]: But what I what I will say is I think the reason why Cambodia resonates so much with people.
[UNKNOWN]: is because a lot of the threats were in the game late and that doesn't generally happen on these all returning players season about all stars all the winners are gone before the merge plus.
[UNKNOWN]: So it's like what are we doing?
[UNKNOWN]: You think about here as versus villains a lot of the threats are gone early.
[UNKNOWN]: You lose JT you lose Tom
[UNKNOWN]: Like, yes, you end up having a very good end game, but that's just because that cast was perfect.
[UNKNOWN]: You think about game changers with we'll get to.
[UNKNOWN]: You lose almost everybody you wanted to see on that season before the merge of that season.
[UNKNOWN]: And so I think that's why this one resonates because part of Jeremy's plan was,
[UNKNOWN]: Keep the alphas in.
[UNKNOWN]: Keep the people that are always going to be looked at ahead of me in the game and he does a great job of that.
[UNKNOWN]: It also helps that he only goes to one tribal council in the premerge, but he does do a great job of managing the relationships and making people like Joe feel like, you know, we're on the same level.
[UNKNOWN]: Like we're on the same level of threat when really he's just saying, Joe, you got to go at least it's you.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not like at one more episode to figure out how to move forward.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, Cambodia is just uh, and it's, you know, it's the last season where it really felt like they embraced the location to in a way that was, you know, it felt like the location was an important part of the show because even when they moved to Fiji with 33, you would think, okay, 33, 34, it's probably when they'll embrace location the most, the newest, you know, they didn't know for sure they're going to stay there as long as they have now, but they don't, they don't really do anything in Fiji.
[UNKNOWN]: that embraces the locals, that embraces the culture, whereas Cambodia, they're embracing the culture.
[UNKNOWN]: Co-wrong, they don't embrace the culture as much, but they still do like some stuff, but yeah, Cambodia is the last season where they really embrace the culture in a way that, you know, that we like on survivor that we want, and that they could do in Fiji, they just choose not to, and I'm not too sure, and I've been in Fiji, they have culture.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not just America on an island, you know, it is a different culture.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and that's like the two of the best moments of this season, both involve Keith and my opinion, and it's him on the two rewards you go as on with the tuck tuck, and then with when he goes and he's sitting there and the temple and he's going, if you would have asked me to keep just get off the spaceship from Mars or as he's sitting to Cambodian temple, well, he just got off the spaceship from Mars.
[UNKNOWN]: Like I love those two moments because it really is, that's what Survivor used to be about.
[UNKNOWN]: It used to be about taking people out of this world that they're so used to.
[UNKNOWN]: They're putting them in place that they never could go and I know now the world has gotten smaller.
[UNKNOWN]: It's easier to travel like you if you get the right deal, you could spend 600 dollars on an international flight You know what I mean like it's not as crazy nowadays, but still Survivor used to be about going to these remote locations and doing these things that you couldn't necessarily do
[UNKNOWN]: Unless you had millions of dollars or unless you were doing whatever like that hot air balloon ride in Africa that Most of Ari like that is not so expensive and that is more isolated You know, that's not just hey, we're gonna take you into this You know, you think about even in Africa when they go to the village and they used to do that village reward like those are things You can't travel to you can't buy that
[UNKNOWN]: And that's what Survivor used to be about.
[UNKNOWN]: And that happens in Cambodia, and I think you're right.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's probably the last time they do something where it's like, you can't really buy this, and we get Keith from Keithville, Louisiana, living on Keith Road, going to, you know, the Anglo-Atemple, and being like, oh my God, this is absolutely incredible.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's a shame they stopped doing that.
[UNKNOWN]: And it says a lot that I can tell you that I took, you know, a plane flight with my wife to Fiji and visited every survivor location because data resort, you know, because it's so easily accessible and that makes it easier to film, but it does take away the specialness of the locations and Cambodia still has that specialness that I appreciate.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's a shame because they definitely could do more culture stuff there.
[UNKNOWN]: They really could.
[UNKNOWN]: They just choose not to could that could be a cost thing.
[UNKNOWN]: I blame a lot of things on creativity.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if that's creativity or cost.
[UNKNOWN]: It could be just cost honestly.
[UNKNOWN]: And you know what else?
[UNKNOWN]: They've been telling for the sanctuary.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, we're eating at your camp a lot.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I think it comes down to, especially now at the 26 days, but I think what happened was it was one of those things where this Cambodia co-wrong location was so brutal that they said we need to just go to Fiji and then once they were in Fiji and they realized they couldn't take us to new things every season rather than being like, oh, we're going to take you to this same, you know, school or we're going to take you to the same place, they just kind of said, okay, well,
[UNKNOWN]: we're just going to keep it we're going to try to do more of like hey look you're at camp and they can see you eating or they can do this or they can do that like they went for that they tried to make it more of like even winning a reward was more strategic and you were still having to worry about yourself I don't know I think about in the one I forgot what season it is I think it's in one of those first gen X when they go on like the the the boat like they're in the middle of the water and they're all the oil and you want to know what's called
[UNKNOWN]: Cloud 9.
[UNKNOWN]: Look up Cloud 9 and Fiji.
[UNKNOWN]: You can go on it.
[UNKNOWN]: It's just a thing you can go on.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not that special So don't be wrong.
[UNKNOWN]: If you go there, it's cool.
[UNKNOWN]: It's special in that sense, but you can Google or I now fill I get it.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, how much is it?
[UNKNOWN]: It's like a hundred bucks to go on that thing
[UNKNOWN]: Um, I'd actually find the price, but it is funny though, like then in that episode, they're yelling at Brett right why you yell and why you yell and that's with the loved ones and everything like that and it's like Oh, because they can see them from the camps what you're saying.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I think I'm actually mixing that with Cambodia, but all right.
[UNKNOWN]: No, no, you're all right.
[UNKNOWN]: That was Millennials of Genics.
[UNKNOWN]: I just watched it.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's where Adam reads his letter about his mom who went to the ballet.
[UNKNOWN]: That's the same.
[UNKNOWN]: That's the same reward.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, yes, no, I thought that was by the way that that cloud and I think super cool of anybody else gets to go to VG.
[UNKNOWN]: It's easier for people on Australia to go apparently.
[UNKNOWN]: There's a lot of Australians there.
[UNKNOWN]: A lot and they did not know about survivors.
[UNKNOWN]: So we were at tribal council fill, and at the tribal council set, and there's these Australians like walking by or going, oh, it's like, what is this?
[UNKNOWN]: Is this something special?
[UNKNOWN]: And I like had to explain, like, it's a TV show.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like, you film?
[UNKNOWN]: And they're like, it's just,
[UNKNOWN]: over the heads, over the heads.
[UNKNOWN]: So I love that.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's $30 pizza.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not bad at all.
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't say it was cheap.
[UNKNOWN]: I just said it's easy to $30 for a pizza.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, I live in LA.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, $30 for a $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1
[UNKNOWN]: Anyways, Cambodia, beautiful location.
[UNKNOWN]: Jeremy wins easily.
[UNKNOWN]: Not that he doesn't work for it, but he just does really well.
[UNKNOWN]: He has the emotional arc that you kind of get with Adam again where people are like, Oh, Jeremy only won because at final tribal, he said I'm having a son.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, he got that emotional.
[UNKNOWN]: I think that was just chair on top.
[UNKNOWN]: Like this icing on the cake.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Because I think he was already winning.
[UNKNOWN]: That was not the difference.
[UNKNOWN]: It was a nice touch.
[UNKNOWN]: People felt, again, that had kids like, oh, wow, that means a lot.
[UNKNOWN]: So he's only had girls so far.
[UNKNOWN]: And he really wanted a boy.
[UNKNOWN]: And then when there's a war, they do a follow-up and he has two boys, I think, at that point.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: It's just, I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a good emotional story to go with the strategy.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's nice that it didn't feel forced.
[UNKNOWN]: It wasn't, let's do sob stories to make, to get you emotionally to hash the person.
[UNKNOWN]: It just happened because that's where they were in their life.
[UNKNOWN]: in a way that felt natural to include in the story.
[UNKNOWN]: And I appreciate that, you know, I appreciate that we'll be natural storytelling.
[UNKNOWN]: And this season at Hero Challenges, where do those go?
[UNKNOWN]: Or it had one here.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a very first Terry vs. Jeremy was such a great challenge.
[UNKNOWN]: I hope I don't do that more.
[UNKNOWN]: Phil, why don't they do that instead of journeys?
[UNKNOWN]: It's the same amount of setup.
[UNKNOWN]: It's simple.
[UNKNOWN]: And then you get your tribesbearing for you,
[UNKNOWN]: adds instead of watching Stephanie look gross a whole her arm above her head for an hour with like what six or seven camera guys there just like how awkward is that but then if you're doing a hero challenge that would be fun to watch and it doesn't require a lot of setup to do.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: No, I know.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know why they don't do those.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, that one's awesome with savage like barely being able to get his body up there and then winning it, we've never been all right.
[UNKNOWN]: And like he can't even talk at the end.
[UNKNOWN]: I, um, I don't know why they don't do that stuff anymore.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, it's also.
[UNKNOWN]: Cambodian has a lot of good, but then Cambodia also like you start to see the trajectory of our survivors go out and that's that's what I always say.
[UNKNOWN]: That's what the philosophy of the voting blocks, which is just fancy words for a temporary alliance is another way calling it that.
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm sorry, but like what's funny about all that if you think you go and look Jeremy votes for Monica Jeremy votes for Sierra Wayne casco's home, but that's what he votes for Kelly when savage, you know, gets blindsided everybody votes for Kelly.
[UNKNOWN]: Then he does vote for Wigglesworth.
[UNKNOWN]: He votes for Sierra plays the idol on Steven.
[UNKNOWN]: He votes for Joe at the episode where Steven goes home, which I don't think he's happy about Steven going home.
[UNKNOWN]: He wanted to be
[UNKNOWN]: He votes correctly every time, and he's, or if he's not one incorrectly, he's still in the know of what the vote's going to be.
[UNKNOWN]: So he's, these trust clusters and whatever, whatever nonsense Jeff wants to push down your turn to do you have to make big moves to win this game.
[UNKNOWN]: Big moves win.
[UNKNOWN]: Jeremy just plays a very straightforward normal game the entire time and that's why he wins and so if you get caught up in Wanting to make Jeff happy you're not going to win survivor if you get caught up in I want to win survivor and I'm just going to navigate everything that's the enemy you'll win survivor and Jeremy proves that on this season Sarah proves it again two seasons later three seasons later whatever Call me proves that on island of the idols just by how much I dislike that season
[UNKNOWN]: Like for example, just avoid all the nonsense and during the most part avoids the nonsense idols are fine idols are amazing look at him playing the out for Steven might be his best move because kind of Steven goes I very next vote like it solidified trust with Steven and like that's a caring like you've you've locked in Steven as a vote for you at the end At the end of the game.
[UNKNOWN]: That's a jury vote right there.
[UNKNOWN]: You won that I don't play and you got what you wanted That tribal which is not Steven going
[UNKNOWN]: Um, and so the, I think that is as best move.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: That's his best thing will move besides winning final immunity.
[UNKNOWN]: Because he could have gone at final, uh, three.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think you would have.
[UNKNOWN]: I think Kelly went with so goes.
[UNKNOWN]: But did you know, are you, somebody had four or five or four?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Fly the impeller says, or you guys went, where's truth?
[UNKNOWN]: There's, do you think Wentworth could have beat in Jeremy?
[UNKNOWN]: Had she gotten to the end?
[UNKNOWN]: I think, okay, so I have to look at the jury because I think when worth had a lot of supporters, should you share me?
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, who's she replacing?
[UNKNOWN]: Is she replacing?
[UNKNOWN]: Does it matter?
[UNKNOWN]: Spencer, Tasha, I guess, not there got any vote.
[UNKNOWN]: It's bold of them.
[UNKNOWN]: We're going to vote for Jeremy.
[UNKNOWN]: Spencer and Tasha are both going to vote.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's a good, well, especially Spencer.
[UNKNOWN]: And then neither of them are getting votes over Jeremy or Kelly, so.
[UNKNOWN]: This Jeremy guaranteed gets the, gets the, well, what worth votes for Jeremy?
[UNKNOWN]: So Jeremy isn't lose a vote.
[UNKNOWN]: He just, it's just different person votes for him.
[UNKNOWN]: So while worth votes for him already,
[UNKNOWN]: Uh, looking out the jury, you got cast.
[UNKNOWN]: Just cast vote for one word.
[UNKNOWN]: I think so.
[UNKNOWN]: As savage votes for Jeremy.
[UNKNOWN]: So you got one one.
[UNKNOWN]: Kelly Wigglesworth.
[UNKNOWN]: She votes for Jeremy.
[UNKNOWN]: So that's two Jeremy.
[UNKNOWN]: One would want worth.
[UNKNOWN]: Sierra.
[UNKNOWN]: Hundred percent vote for one worth.
[UNKNOWN]: Hundred percent.
[UNKNOWN]: Or at two, two.
[UNKNOWN]: Yep.
[UNKNOWN]: Steven votes for Jeremy.
[UNKNOWN]: It's three, two.
[UNKNOWN]: Joe votes for Jeremy.
[UNKNOWN]: It's four, two.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm assuming.
[UNKNOWN]: Joe scores though.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's more real.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Abby Maria votes for Wentworth.
[UNKNOWN]: We're at first.
[UNKNOWN]: Kimmy.
[UNKNOWN]: Captain Burg.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know what we're both.
[UNKNOWN]: Maybe.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, she was pretty pissed at Jeremy at the end, wasn't she?
[UNKNOWN]: And she's part of the Thai vote with Wentworth to get out Jeremy.
[UNKNOWN]: Like she wanted to get Jeremy and that didn't happen.
[UNKNOWN]: So I think she votes for Williamsworth.
[UNKNOWN]: We're at four four.
[UNKNOWN]: Keith.
[UNKNOWN]: Both for, yeah, he's gonna be split between one worth and Jeremy, the both from same season.
[UNKNOWN]: If you think about Jeremy, it's five four, and then the question it, and then we just said Tasha or Spencer, does Marjo, both Jeremy votes win six four in the type of ethical situation, but that's a close vote.
[UNKNOWN]: And Kelly and Kelly has a good argument to make at that final travel council if she gets there.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I came in.
[UNKNOWN]: I had to do this.
[UNKNOWN]: I had to do that.
[UNKNOWN]: My back was constantly against the wall with the idle plays, all that.
[UNKNOWN]: Like Kelly did play a really impressive game.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think that Sierra and stuff would have really been fighting for her on that jury.
[UNKNOWN]: I think Kelly has a better chance when there she's she probably sweeps.
[UNKNOWN]: What?
[UNKNOWN]: Tasha and Spencer, and she didn't sweep, she definitely beats him, but Jeremy versus Wentworth would have been very, very, very close.
[UNKNOWN]: And I just think ultimately comes down to we're both dads, we're both firefighters.
[UNKNOWN]: That's what Keith ultimately chooses to vote for Jeremy there.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I think it's a six four vote, just look at the jury, but it's close.
[UNKNOWN]: And it does make for more intense final tribal between the two of them.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think the bomber for Kelly is had it been a five five tie.
[UNKNOWN]: She loses because she will, she's not getting spent on it.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, well, again, though, Phil, apparently the role change with game changers.
[UNKNOWN]: So who knows what the role was this season?
[UNKNOWN]: Who knows what happens if there's a tie?
[UNKNOWN]: What do we make and fire at the live reunion?
[UNKNOWN]: What do we do?
[UNKNOWN]: So crazy.
[UNKNOWN]: Jeremy's game though, where do you think it ranks with all the fans?
[UNKNOWN]: Well, you know, with the thousands of fans fifth fifth.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, wow.
[UNKNOWN]: That's really high.
[UNKNOWN]: What do you think the season ranks?
[UNKNOWN]: Probably 10 five both or five.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: That's high for both.
[UNKNOWN]: I like Jeremy.
[UNKNOWN]: I like this season.
[UNKNOWN]: I think that's high for both.
[UNKNOWN]: I actually agree with Jeremy's ranking personally.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, I mean, he's top 10 for sure.
[UNKNOWN]: I've said that about hopefully no more than 10 people.
[UNKNOWN]: We're about this podcast.
[UNKNOWN]: When I think top 10, I'm thinking like these are like winners.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like, okay, like you deserve being top 10.
[UNKNOWN]: But the season itself, like it's above.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, so it's below micro niche, which I think is fair.
[UNKNOWN]: It's right above China and wins a war.
[UNKNOWN]: I know you agree.
[UNKNOWN]: It winners awards worse.
[UNKNOWN]: I can't vote.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I know you like China more.
[UNKNOWN]: So you probably would try and above it.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I have Cambodia, Cambodia is one of those seasons where again.
[UNKNOWN]: I feel like I like this season.
[UNKNOWN]: There's also, I don't love this season as much as everybody else.
[UNKNOWN]: I currently have it ranked 13 through the first 33, but it's probably gonna drop two more spots after that.
[UNKNOWN]: David vs. Alia, they'll be ahead of it and I'll probably have one of the seasons in the 40s ahead of it.
[UNKNOWN]: So it's like, it's going to still be top 15, top 16 somewhere in that range.
[UNKNOWN]: I just think like when people talk about that season, I feel like there's a lot of things that bother me about it.
[UNKNOWN]: One, Terry D. Tevin will be pulled from the game as a huge bummer for me.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm such a big Terry D. It's fan.
[UNKNOWN]: I hate that all of the old schoolers are pretty much out of the game with the exception of Kimmy by final eight.
[UNKNOWN]: That's a funer day.
[UNKNOWN]: It's prewonders
[UNKNOWN]: The same thing happens as these in all the old school.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and that's what bombs me out.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, you know, I like Venus.
[UNKNOWN]: I like PG.
[UNKNOWN]: I like Varner.
[UNKNOWN]: I like Terry.
[UNKNOWN]: I like Cass.
[UNKNOWN]: I like Savage.
[UNKNOWN]: Like I'd rather see them go further.
[UNKNOWN]: And I love the Wentworth story line.
[UNKNOWN]: But Keith and Kimmy never feel like they can win.
[UNKNOWN]: And imagine, if instead of Keith and Kimmy, that was Savage and Terry or something like that, if that's Terry and Wigglesworth and Wigglesworth actually was good TV on this season.
[UNKNOWN]: God, it was terrible TV.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, terrible.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, I want to go through the roof for somebody who is not that big of a deal.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, she did not want to be there at all.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, very fun season rewatch though has it's flaws, um, I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a good season that embraced the location and has a satisfying winner.
[UNKNOWN]: Like it's hard not it's hard to fault the season for that.
[UNKNOWN]: Like overall you're going to finish it and like get those good season.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think not all seasons can say that by any means.
[UNKNOWN]: A great year.
[UNKNOWN]: and the cast was here to play for the most part.
[UNKNOWN]: I know you say a couple people but like for the most part the cast is here to play.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean everybody was there to play.
[UNKNOWN]: It just felt like Kimmy and it felt like Kimmy was there to play.
[UNKNOWN]: She just wasn't translating to TV.
[UNKNOWN]: Keith was there to play.
[UNKNOWN]: He just wasn't translating to TV.
[UNKNOWN]: You had these other great narrators and then Wiggles worth just like that's not the game she wanted to play.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a character obviously.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not Keith Keith's character though.
[UNKNOWN]: All right, well, are you ready to move on to your, uh, I think this is your favorite winner.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if she's still your favorite, but she's definitely one of them.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, so we're up to Michelle.
[UNKNOWN]: So Michelle is one of my favorite winners of all time.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, I, I love the Michelle game.
[UNKNOWN]: It's obviously so much more because everybody was saying it was Aubrey Aubrey Aubrey Aubrey Aubrey Aubrey and I just had to be a Michelle true through the entire season.
[UNKNOWN]: And especially when you're early on in the podcasting world,
[UNKNOWN]: being right means so much because as you know I'm sure and I don't know if your fans are as bad but especially during 50, you know, our numbers, we went up by like four or five times from one season to the next in terms of like weekly viewership and all of the 49 that much.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and so getting the 50 and you just get a bunch of people like we hate you, you're an idiot.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know why you're here and I'm just like delete that commentally.
[UNKNOWN]: I got one the other day that I'm vial for ranking Erica's lowest I did and like they were
[UNKNOWN]: You all need to calm the hell down like it's not that big of a deal But what what my point is with this is when you're in this community People love to tell you that you're wrong and they love to rub your nose in it We want my favorite things to do is when I'm right is rub everybody else's nose in it And be as cocky about it as humanly possible because it's really really funny And it was what I did with Gabler because I kept saying if it's not gonna be Jesse it's gonna be Gabler
[UNKNOWN]: and the Michelle win I kept saying the entire season and I was still saying you know Aubrey probably pulls this out but they kept giving Michelle all this content the entire time and I was like guys Michelle could win this season like Michelle has a chance and I was such a Michelle fan and she's my preseason winner pick and I just latched onto it and what's so fascinating about Michelle is it is 100% social game it is 100% social game
[UNKNOWN]: And the show doesn't know what to do with that when telling the story.
[UNKNOWN]: Because what I will say is there's no other winner that is one hundred percent social game.
[UNKNOWN]: Everybody else has some sort of strategic move, right?
[UNKNOWN]: It's just a community's.
[UNKNOWN]: That's part of.
[UNKNOWN]: That's not social game.
[UNKNOWN]: That's part of it.
[UNKNOWN]: But like she wins the final four immunity.
[UNKNOWN]: That is why she ends up surviving final four of the Michelle Tower.
[UNKNOWN]: Obviously.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: But for me, it's like when you're looking at this game, when Debbie goes home, Aubrey and Sydney always get the credit for that move because they go and they talk to Julia.
[UNKNOWN]: But if Julia and Michelle don't have their relationship, they have, that vote doesn't happen.
[UNKNOWN]: Like Michelle is just as integral to that vote as Sydney and Aubrey.
[UNKNOWN]: The show just doesn't know how to reveal that to us because it's all social game.
[UNKNOWN]: But Michelle being as close with Julia as she is is why that ultimately is able to take place.
[UNKNOWN]: Otherwise Michelle and Or Julia don't vote that way.
[UNKNOWN]: And guess what?
[UNKNOWN]: It's not Debbie who's going home.
[UNKNOWN]: It's probably Sydney who's going home or it's Scott Pollard who's going home.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think people lose sight of that throughout the game.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's what always gets me.
[UNKNOWN]: Like Michelle's social game is impeccable this season.
[UNKNOWN]: You see her doing it an Aubrey's biggest mistake is that throughout the entire season as if you're not in Aubrey's alliance,
[UNKNOWN]: She's kind of like, eh, whatever, she talks to this guy a little bit, but it's kind of like seal later, buddy.
[UNKNOWN]: I'll see you next time.
[UNKNOWN]: I'll see you when I'm on when I'm at the final jury, final trial accounts on your own the jury.
[UNKNOWN]: And Michelle did such a good job of talking to everyone at all times.
[UNKNOWN]: And the show just didn't know how to show it.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, it's amazing.
[UNKNOWN]: She has one of the biggest female edits of any female winner in the history of the show.
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm going to find these numbers to prove.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, well, I do see every season that people, yes, they love telling you when you're wrong, but then if you're right.
[UNKNOWN]: they, there's no like, oh, yep, no, you're right.
[UNKNOWN]: So it's, it's whatever.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, that's just the internet.
[UNKNOWN]: But this is the season that this is the first season I watched a live getting out of the Navy.
[UNKNOWN]: So it was around time I got out.
[UNKNOWN]: And so I hadn't watched Survivors since Fiji.
[UNKNOWN]: So watching this, I thought Aubrey was going to win.
[UNKNOWN]: Like straight up, like I was not, I was a super casual.
[UNKNOWN]: I hadn't watched since Earl season.
[UNKNOWN]: So watching this season, like Michelle wins, I've remembered her face season going,
[UNKNOWN]: Why did she win?
[UNKNOWN]: What, why would Michelle win because the show was an interesting telling her story and even going back and I made videos on Aubrey's game, Michelle's winning game.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like the ponderosa doesn't help too much because why does Debbie vote for Michelle?
[UNKNOWN]: There's never an explanation.
[UNKNOWN]: She's only praising Aubrey.
[UNKNOWN]: It's because Debbie's Debbie, like I guess, you know, like what changed Debbie's mind?
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know, they didn't get it on camera from when I gathered.
[UNKNOWN]: But it's just, the show does not do a great job
[UNKNOWN]: But Scott does kind of sum it up at Final Tribal when he says, you know, how do you told me three days ago, four days ago, that you're the biggest threat here, like I wouldn't, I wouldn't have believed it, but seeing how you finished this game strong and out of the air too, kind of faltered at the end, props to you and he like applause us her.
[UNKNOWN]: And while it is Scott and he is a villain, a major villain that they don't do anymore, it's, I think that's kind of what the show wanted you to come away with, is that's why she won kind of like when Eric said Natalie,
[UNKNOWN]: why is your way of winning the bad way of winning or bad way of playing the game versus Russell, you know?
[UNKNOWN]: It felt like that kind of moment, but for Michelle.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and that's the thing people will say, oh, she only got the votes because the jury was bitter and they were a bunch of assholes.
[UNKNOWN]: That's survivor, baby.
[UNKNOWN]: Like that's survivor, you need to get, like your vote's just as good as him.
[UNKNOWN]: It's what was the Michael Jordan had the book of like, and I don't mean to get the local here, but he had the book called Republicans by sneakers too, or something like that.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's like, or he had the quote of that, or he said Republicans by sneakers too, because somebody had asked him at one point, like, why are you so, and he's like, because they by sneak, like, I want, I want everybody to like my stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: And I feel like that's kind of where Michelle went with this, like Michelle, at the time, was a bartender in New Jersey.
[UNKNOWN]: And the part of New Jersey she's in is a lot of different personalities.
[UNKNOWN]: Freehold is
[UNKNOWN]: in this area where you're getting some beach town, you're getting people are coming from North Jersey, you're getting people are coming from South Jersey, you're getting retirees, you're getting wealthy, you're getting not that wealthy.
[UNKNOWN]: You're getting people coming from like the Trenton Filli area.
[UNKNOWN]: It is an area of New Jersey where you're getting so many different kinds of personalities.
[UNKNOWN]: And so for me, it's like she understood, Scott's vote is one vote.
[UNKNOWN]: It counts just as much as Julia's vote, which counts just as much as Sidney's vote.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think that that is why she ultimately wins the game.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think it really is, you know, it's awesome.
[UNKNOWN]: And so,
[UNKNOWN]: If you look at Michelle's win, I have it right here.
[UNKNOWN]: In terms of percentage of the edit, she was supposed to get.
[UNKNOWN]: She's actually the most properly edited winner in the history of the show.
[UNKNOWN]: In terms of how much confessional and screen time, she got compared to every other player on her season.
[UNKNOWN]: She was 1% higher than the average on her season.
[UNKNOWN]: But out of all the women, she's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, best edit.
[UNKNOWN]: who had bigger had more time to tell their story of Michelle.
[UNKNOWN]: She's really one of those things.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: They're going to give her more of a Kenzie edit.
[UNKNOWN]: So if you remove the new era winners, she's one, two, three, four, fifth biggest female edit of any winner in the show.
[UNKNOWN]: She's right behind Sandra and Natalie and actually finishes with more confessional than both of those players.
[UNKNOWN]: And I mean, Natalie Anderson is not like.
[UNKNOWN]: It's, I mean, it really is that the show props up Aubrey so much as the face of the season and as the narrator and that and then Here's the crazy thing, but we got to have this because I'm so prominent.
[UNKNOWN]: So let's we join this season people come away with it was with Aubrey was wrong and then there's people like no Michelle earned it and like,
[UNKNOWN]: I can can I agree with both because I think that the show portrayed that Aubrey was robbed, but also I believe that Michelle earned it.
[UNKNOWN]: Like I believe both in this case.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, I had I been there.
[UNKNOWN]: I wouldn't have been like Aubrey's robbed, but watching the show, like, how can I not come away thinking this?
[UNKNOWN]: Winners at war, Michelle's like, well, people thought my win was controversial.
[UNKNOWN]: And Boston Rob, King of Controversial Wins tells her, if you win, you win.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's the end of the story.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, I know that Tom said that and here's her's villain, but we're starting with Michelle.
[UNKNOWN]: That's, that's the, that's in the edited show.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not the reunion.
[UNKNOWN]: It's in the edited show, a wins a win.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, it counts.
[UNKNOWN]: Got to prop up your third place, finish or the season.
[UNKNOWN]: We go to 50.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, Michelle's not here.
[UNKNOWN]: Time to prop up Aubrey.
[UNKNOWN]: And people on the island are saying, Aubrey should have won, rhythm or co-wrong or Aubrey, sorry, Aubrey people think Aubrey should have won co-wrongs, what they say, whatever.
[UNKNOWN]: And so it's like propping up Aubrey and we constantly reflect an Aubrey at one point.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like I learned from Michelle doing XYZ.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I know you.
[UNKNOWN]: I know it's where you're getting at.
[UNKNOWN]: Don't worry.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I got it.
[UNKNOWN]: But I got to make sure you got me.
[UNKNOWN]: There's so many references to co-wrong in the sense of like people thought Aubrey should have won.
[UNKNOWN]: So the perception of Aubrey is that she deserves a win.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's why Joth and Lost are released at part of the story of why Joth and Lost.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not the whole story, but it just like it's it really came full circle with 50 in a weird way that I wasn't expecting to have even if I ever want to expect like one reference, but they did like five times so it's almost like 15 co-wrong go hand in hand in a weird way and they really shouldn't.
[UNKNOWN]: I agree with you.
[UNKNOWN]: I was very fascinated when watching 50 and seeing how so much of what the story of Aubrey's was because they really have any hard time telling Aubrey's story, which is ironic that the season they have a hard time telling their story is the one she wins just like with Michelle.
[UNKNOWN]: But when she loses it's so easy.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: but it's so easy, right?
[UNKNOWN]: And I was very impressed with the fact that the show was giving, I think giving Michelle a lot of credit for her win on that season where they kept on talking about, you know, this is what Michelle did.
[UNKNOWN]: I like Aubrey saying some people say about this played about social game.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think I did, but I learned from Michelle that it's about the timing.
[UNKNOWN]: It's about what you need to do.
[UNKNOWN]: And maybe she's just saying those words to say those words, but at the same time, that is, that is true.
[UNKNOWN]: Like Michelle's social game is ultimately what won her the game over Aubrey.
[UNKNOWN]: And you, like again, you could say,
[UNKNOWN]: Scott Jason Julia, they all voted for Aubrey are all voted for Michelle.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, they did and they all count and we have this comment here from higher degree or see a Michelle got lucky that show got medical evacuation without medical evacuation Michelle would have gone at final five because Aubrey wore a challenge of final four would have been immunity.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: If Neal doesn't get metovact at final 11, Aubrey's out of the game.
[UNKNOWN]: Like that's what people always disregard with this and it drives me crazy.
[UNKNOWN]: Sure, Michelle got lucky at final five.
[UNKNOWN]: Aubrey is going home when Neal goes home.
[UNKNOWN]: That is a fact.
[UNKNOWN]: That is not like a subjective question thing.
[UNKNOWN]: She was going home at that tribal.
[UNKNOWN]: And for anybody who says, well, maybe Neal would have played the idol for her.
[UNKNOWN]: Neal wouldn't even give her the idol when he was out.
[UNKNOWN]: Neil was super selfish and you see that on ponderus as well.
[UNKNOWN]: Neil was not giving her the idol or playing it for her.
[UNKNOWN]: No way.
[UNKNOWN]: Neil was so full of himself.
[UNKNOWN]: It was hard to watch.
[UNKNOWN]: It was hard to watch as ponderus of videos.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh my gosh.
[UNKNOWN]: He's like, yeah, you're going to bring me back.
[UNKNOWN]: I know it for sure.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like Neil.
[UNKNOWN]: You're not that interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: You wore ice cream pants.
[UNKNOWN]: That's it.
[UNKNOWN]: No, so that's that's that's that's my thing.
[UNKNOWN]: Like you.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: I understand the Michelle got lucky at final five.
[UNKNOWN]: Aubrey got unbelievably lucky early on when Neil gets mad about because Aubrey is going home there and then it's not even a conversation because there's a matter where Joe gets mad about it.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm going to be honest with you if Aubrey goes home as early as she did.
[UNKNOWN]: I still think Michelle probably wins the season.
[UNKNOWN]: Like truly, she was that good socially and was able to bounce back and forth.
[UNKNOWN]: And the other thing is she really gained the respect of the brawn from the early, the early time, which was just something that ultimately, Aubrey wasn't able to do.
[UNKNOWN]: What's also underrated here, Sidney Votes for Michelle, over.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but she wouldn't get from the edit.
[UNKNOWN]: The Debbie and Sidney Votes for Michelle
[UNKNOWN]: are like telling, because like it feels like Aubrey should have got the Sydney and Debbie votes, but just didn't happen.
[UNKNOWN]: Even Debbie and Paul Tribals like praising Aubrey, and I don't know if she says anything to Michelle, but they just leave the Aubrey stuff in.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's like, okay, she's going for Aubrey, and then she doesn't.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, this is what I mean by the story being like, what are you doing?
[UNKNOWN]: You already know where we're going.
[UNKNOWN]: Give me something to latch on to for why this happens, and they don't want to, or they can't, it's one or the other.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, look, I just, I think Michelle's game is fascinating.
[UNKNOWN]: I think Cauron, Cauron's one of my all-time favorite seasons.
[UNKNOWN]: I absolutely love it.
[UNKNOWN]: I love the cast.
[UNKNOWN]: I love Scott.
[UNKNOWN]: I love Jason.
[UNKNOWN]: I love that type of villainy.
[UNKNOWN]: I actually think Kyle Jason, one of the most underrated character slash players in the history of the show.
[UNKNOWN]: I think he's been a star, drive a lot of the entertainment because they lose.
[UNKNOWN]: be casual lose the game part they have to lose the villains have to lose if they win it makes the season feel up but like seeing them lose and because of tie the way they treated tie was just like chef's kiss because the co-wronged super idol that doesn't even become a super idol and never becomes one it's just a potential of a super idol is what drives decisions and it reminds you knowledge is power in the way of like
[UNKNOWN]: That thing has never been successful, but when I look back, I'm like, it's given us moments though, and people making decisions because of it.
[UNKNOWN]: So like, it's one of the better new era ideas.
[UNKNOWN]: based on how it's played out, like it's worked.
[UNKNOWN]: It's never worked the way they intended it when they were when they invented the idea, but it's worked in terms of making people do different things in a natural way.
[UNKNOWN]: Like that was not the intention.
[UNKNOWN]: Same as co-wrong super, I'm sure they were not thinking, oh, maybe they were thinking that this is how it play out with Thai, but obviously they were just thinking to view work together and make a super idle and that'll be interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: But,
[UNKNOWN]: seeing it fall apart and seeing this people go and it's like Scott could have played the out of for himself, but he chose not to because he was so confident about the super idol.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, and then he's on Pondroso with his idol and people like, what are you doing with an idol here?
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and it's funny because if you listen will every now and then my, you know, my podcast partner, I don't know how much you listen to us, but like if you listen well every now and then he has these moments of gold and because he worked on the show for a period one of his arguments is They work on it and we worked on the show.
[UNKNOWN]: He did 35 through 38.
[UNKNOWN]: That's why he disappeared and the likes it came in.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so he was 35 through 38.
[UNKNOWN]: He was actually on location and then he He still worked on the show a little bit during like 39 40 and I think 41 and 42.
[UNKNOWN]: I could be wrong on that though.
[UNKNOWN]: But anyway, so will He always says with a twisted advantage or something like that.
[UNKNOWN]: It doesn't have to play out the way it was designed to be successful.
[UNKNOWN]: It can be, it can be something different than they ever imagined.
[UNKNOWN]: It still be successful.
[UNKNOWN]: And he always points to knowledge as power as a very, very, very successful survivor twist.
[UNKNOWN]: Because even though it never plays out the way it was designed, it is creating drama, it's creating tension.
[UNKNOWN]: It is creating all of these great moments, which at the end of the day is more important than it playing out in the correct way.
[UNKNOWN]: people handing idols to Jesse because of their worry about knowledge power 43 is just like top just like top new era moments right there.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's part of why Jesse such an amazing player.
[UNKNOWN]: His social game got people to hand him idols and then it's to keep them.
[UNKNOWN]: he keeps them both, just insane, all because of knowledge power, though, existing in the threat of it.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, tell.
[UNKNOWN]: Knowledge power, the idea was to stop people being like Ben and doing Ben, Ben bombs, I imagine, or I think what's the idol, all fire was that, but people didn't like died on all fires, they invented knowledge power instead.
[UNKNOWN]: That's why the Empire was inherently unfair.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, then I don't know if I get the concept.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's in the survivor card game, board game, whatever you want to call it.
[UNKNOWN]: So they like it enough to leave it in there.
[UNKNOWN]: But knowledge power is definitely the better way of handling people we public are idols, which was the obvious thing they were trying to deal with with that.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: But it hasn't done it.
[UNKNOWN]: People in New York still just tell everybody everything all the time.
[UNKNOWN]: I know.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, now because the threat of knowledge is power is kind of gone.
[UNKNOWN]: All right, well, I give you more even getting it and she already has everything or so if you be getting it and she waits for the last possible moment to do something when like forward vanages have already been existing and been played that she could have taken it's like, all right, well, that's just the player that that's not the advantage it still breaks my heart that she did that wrong, but she could have sold Stevens advantage like she's like, oh, she all mad about it, but like you could have stolen it last week, you knew we had it last week last night to play it right away.
[UNKNOWN]: Just take it.
[UNKNOWN]: He's not on your side.
[UNKNOWN]: Just take it.
[UNKNOWN]: I do want to talk about Michelle's before we talk about like winterstats and all that.
[UNKNOWN]: Michelle final travel performance is great and that is I think like Aubrey's final tribal was good but Aubrey thought she had it in the bag.
[UNKNOWN]: I think for Michelle
[UNKNOWN]: She knew that she was coming in and she was going to have to defend herself and you see her start and feel herself there.
[UNKNOWN]: I think at one point she like does like a little flex or something towards God and I think that Michelle's final tribal.
[UNKNOWN]: She gave everybody what they wanted and her growth was very apparent because a lot of times you'll see these younger women.
[UNKNOWN]: I think at the time
[UNKNOWN]: Michelle was only like 24 or 25 years old.
[UNKNOWN]: Like she wasn't, she wasn't an older 20.
[UNKNOWN]: She was 24, so young 20.
[UNKNOWN]: And Aubrey's 29, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Aubrey's 29.
[UNKNOWN]: So you figure when you sit there and you look at Michelle's game, a lot of times he's younger women get overwhelmed that these final travel councils, because they almost feel like they're being attacked.
[UNKNOWN]: They don't defend themselves very well.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's why, really, I think it's Sophie and Michelle are the two youngest female winners because at least before the new era, because more often than nine more aska.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's true.
[UNKNOWN]: The youngest I think still is the youngest.
[UNKNOWN]: I think you're right, but it's like so there's so few though young women who truly win because it's like, they don't, they don't necessarily know how to define their game.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think Michelle had a lot of help from the jury.
[UNKNOWN]: Some of the jury was on her side, but it's like with Sydney and Debbie voting for her, those were not two votes.
[UNKNOWN]: She had locked in going to now.
[UNKNOWN]: Julia Scott and Kyle were always going to vote for her.
[UNKNOWN]: So this is a 4 3 vote at worst for Michelle where she loses by one, but to get those other votes, she had to have a good final tribal and I think she really started to feel the momentum and said, okay, I need to take advantage of this stuff and Michelle was able to take advantage of what the jury was giving.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's something like like I see Darrell Seymour saying Michelle didn't have to defend Aubrey got the attack Yeah Aubrey got attack but Aubrey wasn't able to defend her game the way she needed to to get the votes Whereas Michelle was able to take the info that was coming and use it like treason doesn't take the info That's coming and use it Bob Crowley takes the info that's coming in flip sits that he almost loses the game Yeah, there's a lot of players who
[UNKNOWN]: would not handle what the jury was giving Michelle as well as Michelle did and I think it's one of the best final tribal Formuses and it is the that's the moment where she wins the game Yeah, because she doesn't have the game one going into that final tribal.
[UNKNOWN]: I'll never knock somebody though for watching the season and thinking that Aubrey Should have won because that's just I know that you said Michelle's a prominent edit, but they gave Aubrey and even more prominent at it So I'm and also I I guess I can relate because I watched season the first time I was like Dahak
[UNKNOWN]: Like what, watching my family, remember that being like, uh, that wasn't a satisfying winner, which says a lot about how they told the story.
[UNKNOWN]: You want to hear the exact time of the same fact.
[UNKNOWN]: Let me give you one last stat.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: One last stat and then I'm going to get to, then we get to yours out of every single female winner, prior to season 40, uh, where's Marianne?
[UNKNOWN]: No, prior to season 45 when they went to the longer episodes.
[UNKNOWN]: So that includes Marianne that includes Erica.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, Marianne was not one of the episodes.
[UNKNOWN]: That's the second American.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Michelle has the second most confessional of any female winner before they went to 90 minute episodes.
[UNKNOWN]: The only woman with more was Tina Weston, but that was also on a season where they were giving out confessional every three seconds because that's what the whole show was.
[UNKNOWN]: The show, if you go look at
[UNKNOWN]: Australia versus co-wrong.
[UNKNOWN]: I think co-wrong has something like 300 fewer confessionals than Australia does.
[UNKNOWN]: And so Michelle is only behind Tina Westin in terms of total number of confessionals on a season.
[UNKNOWN]: And this is a woman who did not go to tribal council until it's open.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, day 22, it's insane.
[UNKNOWN]: And they still gave her a lot of confessionals.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think if you rewatch the pre-merge, it's very telling, that's where it was telling me.
[UNKNOWN]: They do a lot of her, well, there's no need.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and they do a lot of her telling a story of like what she needs to do and what she needs to accomplish.
[UNKNOWN]: And you're like, why?
[UNKNOWN]: And she, I think, going into the murder, turn Aubrey at the same amount of confessionals or they're only separated by one.
[UNKNOWN]: It's the post-merge or Aubrey takes over, because she's more exciting TV and what survivor one.
[UNKNOWN]: That's true.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, Marianne had 48 Michelle had 57.
[UNKNOWN]: To me, I felt like Marianne was more prominent in the show than then Michelle.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, it was for Marianne with more tribals.
[UNKNOWN]: And if you go by percentage of the confessionals like on the season, Marianne actually ended with a higher percentage, which is why she feels more prominent.
[UNKNOWN]: OK, so her season, she's actually 7% above what she should have had in the show.
[UNKNOWN]: Her numbers, Michelle has more.
[UNKNOWN]: I got you.
[UNKNOWN]: OK.
[UNKNOWN]: All right.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, where do you think the fans rank her?
[UNKNOWN]: I'll get also tell you where Aubrey is was as well since they're so intertwined now.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, the shell.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm going to say like 37.
[UNKNOWN]: 29.
[UNKNOWN]: She's 10 to nine.
[UNKNOWN]: Where do you think Aubrey is?
[UNKNOWN]: Aubrey is lower.
[UNKNOWN]: Where do you think Aubrey is?
[UNKNOWN]: 43.
[UNKNOWN]: 35.
[UNKNOWN]: So six.
[UNKNOWN]: And where do you think her wrong ranks?
[UNKNOWN]: I would hope it's in the top 20, but I'm worried.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm going to say 17.
[UNKNOWN]: close 16.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, 17th Africa and 15 spellpins is right below the Philippines.
[UNKNOWN]: Also Michelle is right below Mary Ann right above Sophie Clark right not right next to each other as a winner.
[UNKNOWN]: And then so I 50 ranks in at
[UNKNOWN]: 19th, so a few spots will go wrong.
[UNKNOWN]: I want to point out, though, and this is every single year, the residency bias is a heck of a drug.
[UNKNOWN]: So wait till next year, and the real rankings of Aubrey, Savannah 15 and 49 will reveal themselves.
[UNKNOWN]: The
[UNKNOWN]: especially 50 in this case for a nightly set some breathing room, but it's always that very first video I do wearing concesions and what it's like just given out of the year if you want the real right He 50 in much an Aubrey overloved and overhated at the same time They'll be two more winners for us to be talking about to be fresher in our minds for people to Love or hate or whatever, so yeah, we'll see how it goes next year
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if, if I think Michelle by the way, is 20th last season, I think this is her spot.
[UNKNOWN]: If anything, she comes on her season maybe, and then people remember her, but I think it's about where she'll stay, unless something else happens like that.
[UNKNOWN]: Also, I think you're good there with the overlapped overhaided.
[UNKNOWN]: I think that right now, here in that ranking for 50, it's like guys, 50 stanks.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's move that way back.
[UNKNOWN]: But I also think with Aubrey, I think Aubrey's being overhaided right now when we just did our rankings, we ranked for at 40, which is really, I think really low.
[UNKNOWN]: I think I had her at like 30 or something like that.
[UNKNOWN]: I forget exactly what number I had her at.
[UNKNOWN]: I have it right here.
[UNKNOWN]: I had her at 34.
[UNKNOWN]: But I think that people are overhaiding on that game.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think when we see what the open era looks like,
[UNKNOWN]: Her game probably moves up because yes, she didn't have a lot of control.
[UNKNOWN]: There was a lot of luck involved.
[UNKNOWN]: But if that's what the new era game is.
[UNKNOWN]: If the new era game wants to reward you for not taking control, she did it better than anybody else.
[UNKNOWN]: Like she knew what she was doing the entire game.
[UNKNOWN]: So I do think Aubrey's being a little overpainted right now.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think she will move up in the grand scheme of things.
[UNKNOWN]: Will Ranked are 40 eighth.
[UNKNOWN]: I think that's I think that's that's insane.
[UNKNOWN]: Aubrey I I don't know where I drank her, but if I had to say I would say she'd be around she'd probably around spot she's in right now with we're we're 35th is where I said she's ranked yeah I would probably rank her around that area.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if I put her lower, but I can't say I put her like extremely higher either.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, but then when you look at but when you talk about like legacies like I think Aubrey as a as a overall character across four seasons is higher than that But then I get that's a little bit right in the winners, so I mean I don't agree you can make the argument that Aubrey's a top five player of all time now and people won't like that But like she has a second place a fifth place a blow up and then a win on all returning season yeah
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, well, we'll get to 50 eventually, Phil.
[UNKNOWN]: How many votes off was Michelle from a perfect game?
[UNKNOWN]: I'm sure you already know this one.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, I should know this, but I really don't.
[UNKNOWN]: Is it four?
[UNKNOWN]: It's four.
[UNKNOWN]: You nailed it.
[UNKNOWN]: She misses those two votes that Aubrey gets to the final Tribal.
[UNKNOWN]: It would have been, of course, Aubrey no matter what.
[UNKNOWN]: No matter how if Aubrey won jury removal, Michelle still wins 4-3.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, it wasn't the jury removal was impactful, but it didn't literally change the result.
[UNKNOWN]: Which I think people have been more upset about if they had been.
[UNKNOWN]: like have this boat been four, three, or whatever, and then, and it's like, well, if I read one, then she would one, four, three, so I'm a showing, but thankfully, it was just one boat enough where it's like, we can no one can argue that because the jury removed the Aubrey lost.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think people like obviously Neil would have campaign for Aubrey, but I don't think people like the Neil enough to really care.
[UNKNOWN]: No, Neil is watching Ponderosa of Caurong is interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a good season upon Dorosa videos, but Neil is in suffer.
[UNKNOWN]: I met Neil one time and I told him that Michele deserves to win and he called me an idiot.
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, that's how I feel about you.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, meals a bit and suffer both from what I saw on the show.
[UNKNOWN]: All right.
[UNKNOWN]: So that's yeah, it's it from a shell you're ready to move on to Adam and well, wait, wait, wait, wait real quick.
[UNKNOWN]: We do back to move worst move.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, ready to quicker on the others.
[UNKNOWN]: I have to be long on Michelle here.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm so pissed move best move her best move.
[UNKNOWN]: I personally believe.
[UNKNOWN]: is winning the final few challenges.
[UNKNOWN]: The two, she won two immunities and won a jury removal.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think that is part of why the jury saw her finish strong.
[UNKNOWN]: It was said, during the final tribal, I think Scott, that's kind of the new respected.
[UNKNOWN]: I think the best move is coming in strong.
[UNKNOWN]: It's challenges at the end.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's getting rid of Neil.
[UNKNOWN]: I think because she has the conversation of should I get rid of Joe and then she has even conversation about maybe Kyle or Scott getting rid of Joe.
[UNKNOWN]: I actually think would have been a bad look to the Jerry because they would have almost felt bad.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like here's a 71 year old guy who gets all the way to fit has to get pulled from the game because he eats out of red meat.
[UNKNOWN]: That's not a good person or move from the jury.
[UNKNOWN]: They haven't had anybody as aged in, even though on the on fire podcast, just like we don't have an age bias.
[UNKNOWN]: They so clearly do.
[UNKNOWN]: They just so clearly do.
[UNKNOWN]: Look at the rumored cast of 551 and 52.
[UNKNOWN]: There's an age bias.
[UNKNOWN]: It's been there the whole new era.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know, it just sucks.
[UNKNOWN]: It sucks.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And then in terms of what's her worst move, like she doesn't really have lunch.
[UNKNOWN]: She doesn't go to the jury in the pre-murge.
[UNKNOWN]: She gets ready to Nick.
[UNKNOWN]: She gets ready to Debbie when Scott goes like she puts votes on Thai because she's supposed to.
[UNKNOWN]: She gets ready to Julia.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, her worst move you could argue was not trying to make a move on Aubrey earlier.
[UNKNOWN]: But I also don't think that Kyle Jason and Scott and Julia would have wanted to go to the end with Michelle, like I think they were all trying to go to the end together if they could make it happen.
[UNKNOWN]: So think she had a key point for you as long as she's supposed to go for Aubrey because there was a massive when when Jason and Scott decided to cycle warfare and Debbie goes that episode though that.
[UNKNOWN]: isn't why she goes but they they're like in their mind like we won't we won't whatever anyways one where they supposed to go when was she supposed to go for Aubrey because once they do that whole psychological warfare the moment Nick gets voted off right Nick goes and they're like okay we're going to hide stuff around the camp we're going to put out the fire in front of everybody like you have to then get rid of Scott Jason and Julia they're all combined like Julia made her bed when she got in with those two
[UNKNOWN]: Um, it's like, okay, and then Joe goes at the medical evacuation.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: So yes, I guess Aubrey at Final Four, which they she tried to get rid of her, but still he locked the fire and Aubrey said on 50.
[UNKNOWN]: Like the firing challenge took like an hour.
[UNKNOWN]: I also feel I also feel maybe at Final eight if she had gotten to tie first because that's where Aubrey would have win it would have been a tie between Scott and Aubrey and then tie would have gotten them one vote or whatever.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: That's one of the things in the gut.
[UNKNOWN]: Debbie vote, like was she that big of a threat, the Debbie vote to get rid of?
[UNKNOWN]: No, Debbie, sorry, I think that there were so many things that happened that's like they had to do what they had to do.
[UNKNOWN]: They had to do it for the social game as part of it.
[UNKNOWN]: You don't want to leave people around that annoy others.
[UNKNOWN]: Why did you leave Jason in the game?
[UNKNOWN]: We hate that guy, Michelle.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not voting for you or I don't like you or whatever.
[UNKNOWN]: And the way I feel about it is a lot of people will say, you know, this is why when we talk about perfect winner and all that perfect game, all that different stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, well, you know, if you're, if you're playing a perfect game of survivor, you get close, you get 10 nothing, nothing.
[UNKNOWN]: But the way I look at it is, if you can beat the best firing or season anyway, what does it matter?
[UNKNOWN]: Like, she was able to beat Aubrey, which if she's able to beat Aubrey, she beats anybody then.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, she beats Sydney.
[UNKNOWN]: It's close, but I think it's four, three, because
[UNKNOWN]: I think that, you know, Scott Jason, they all were, yeah, they would have voted for Michelle still.
[UNKNOWN]: And so I think that like if you can beat the best player who cares if you let them get there and they took a couple of votes from you, you were going to beat them anyway.
[UNKNOWN]: If you can beat the best beat the best, I don't need you to go and clean sweep it and say, oh, well, I took easier people to the end.
[UNKNOWN]: No way.
[UNKNOWN]: Todd goes to the end with Amanda and Courtney.
[UNKNOWN]: He wins.
[UNKNOWN]: That's the best final three in the history of the show and he wins it.
[UNKNOWN]: It doesn't matter that Denise might have been easier to beat or genre bare might have been easier to beat or change.
[UNKNOWN]: He might have been easier to beat.
[UNKNOWN]: He was able to beat the best people, so it doesn't
[UNKNOWN]: It's just a stat.
[UNKNOWN]: There's no real way of the ranking of the winners is so arbitrary, no matter how you look at it.
[UNKNOWN]: Even with the stat, a perfect winner, it's an arbitrary thing.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not gonna say it or be like, cauldrons better than a bunch of other people who actually think are better winners than cauldrons, but I will say statistically better.
[UNKNOWN]: But...
[UNKNOWN]: Like what are we going to like we're ranking winners.
[UNKNOWN]: It's we've talked about this all all time.
[UNKNOWN]: Different seasons, different rules, different players.
[UNKNOWN]: Everybody didn't play it in the same circumstances.
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, I am ready to move on to Adam though.
[UNKNOWN]: If you're ready to move on to Adam, I'm ready.
[UNKNOWN]: Can I open with this is when survivor without us knowing we did not realize this to later.
[UNKNOWN]: They pulled a, they pulled a trick on us, a magic trick and editing magic trick on us from 33 through 44.
[UNKNOWN]: I know you know this one, Phil.
[UNKNOWN]: The match hat reveals who the winner is.
[UNKNOWN]: from 33 through 44 on all newbie seasons.
[UNKNOWN]: So whenever Jeff's like, hey, what's your name?
[UNKNOWN]: Tell me your name.
[UNKNOWN]: He always does it with the winner.
[UNKNOWN]: He does it with other people, but the winner's always one of those people from millennials versus Genics through 44th Jam Jam.
[UNKNOWN]: And they stopped after the Jam Jam season because people where it was so I was one of them were so vocal online, like you're telling us that Jam Jam won because
[UNKNOWN]: The other two people that season had already been vote off.
[UNKNOWN]: We already know Jam Jam wins for weeks.
[UNKNOWN]: You've spoiled your own show.
[UNKNOWN]: But the fact of the matter is they got away with it for so long.
[UNKNOWN]: We didn't realize it.
[UNKNOWN]: I think Gavler put the connected the dots finally after Gavler's win.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, what's the, there's a trend here.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's gonna be more obvious because the match-chat was every season.
[UNKNOWN]: But for starting up in the Olympics versus Jax, it wasn't every season.
[UNKNOWN]: And also we had a couple of attorney seasons in there, which mixed it up.
[UNKNOWN]: So, on new B seasons from 33-44, you know who the winner is.
[UNKNOWN]: Because it's one of the people talk, get talk to them at.
[UNKNOWN]: which is just a thing, adding me and trick that they, I don't think they even knew they were doing, but they're like, oh, we got stopped doing it, you know?
[UNKNOWN]: It's so crazy that they did that, because like, yeah, why are you spoiling your, Australian survivor does that, too.
[UNKNOWN]: Where if you watch one season, they spoil the entire season before.
[UNKNOWN]: So like, that was what sucked for me was when I finally started watching,
[UNKNOWN]: Well, is it not tightens for travels that whatever season brings her sprung to or whatever I watch, I don't even remember, but whatever season brings her, will it versus water?
[UNKNOWN]: No, it was much more recent.
[UNKNOWN]: It was the one that with Miles and AJ, and that was the first one I watched live and the first thing they do is be like, yes, so when Ferris won, I'm like,
[UNKNOWN]: What do we do?
[UNKNOWN]: Oh yeah, when they spoil the previous season, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I know.
[UNKNOWN]: I'll show you it's a river man.
[UNKNOWN]: They have a huge spoiler problem.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: But yes, this show is spoiling itself just in the don't season.
[UNKNOWN]: It's just like, oh man.
[UNKNOWN]: But you don't know it yet.
[UNKNOWN]: And this season can't knock it.
[UNKNOWN]: They go, this is the first time in Fiji.
[UNKNOWN]: The season opens up with a medical, I'm not starting a medical evacuation.
[UNKNOWN]: Whether related to evacuation, everybody has to lead the camps for like the night or how many hours it was.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's just like, it's a cool way to start the season.
[UNKNOWN]: They don't do have people jump off the boat.
[UNKNOWN]: They have them collect stuff on an island.
[UNKNOWN]: And I almost wonder, Phil, if this opening of the season is because the weather was bad, they couldn't do it on the boat, like they planned.
[UNKNOWN]: Like game changers is on that boat.
[UNKNOWN]: Grab supply, jump off the boat.
[UNKNOWN]: But the weather was too bad.
[UNKNOWN]: They're like, okay, let's plan it all on this island, which is not the edge of extinction island.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know what island I like.
[UNKNOWN]: I know some of them, but this one I didn't recognize immediately.
[UNKNOWN]: But it's like, okay, you can make the decision.
[UNKNOWN]: Grab this item, grab this item.
[UNKNOWN]: but they couldn't because of the weather, so they've moved into the island.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, they got hit with like a literal cyclone.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it was high-fizzoon or whatever.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it was like the most dangerous start that seasons ever had.
[UNKNOWN]: They were really handed them parks on day two because they were working.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, and you got to remember, this is also coming on the heels of Colerong and Cambodia, which were
[UNKNOWN]: brutal, brutal, brutal seasons.
[UNKNOWN]: And they didn't want the show to go down the route of three meta-vax like they had in Cambodia or in Ankara.
[UNKNOWN]: They don't want that.
[UNKNOWN]: So they were like really concerned.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, obviously, this was an actual life or death kind of situation.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, you see that hut at the end of the night.
[UNKNOWN]: The shelter is a tree falls on it.
[UNKNOWN]: People would have been crushed.
[UNKNOWN]: But
[UNKNOWN]: They were much more concerned at this point.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's funny that this never becomes a problem again on the show.
[UNKNOWN]: If I'm not mistaken, I think the only other time it's really an issue is in David Verscalia, when Pat obviously hits the dice.
[UNKNOWN]: But it's funny that even though their schedule is kind of the same all the time, they've never had another weather issue in Fiji the way they had it with this.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, I do know that the weather thing, it's always better.
[UNKNOWN]: And Fiji, it's always better for the odd number of season.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not perfect, it's just better.
[UNKNOWN]: But like winners, because the winner is a war, it's like raining a foul tribal.
[UNKNOWN]: Like it's just pouring, they did nothing to do about it.
[UNKNOWN]: But I'm looking at, I'm trying to look at the schedule because I think in the new era they start filming the first season later because they're doing last days and I think that does help with the weather in the new era for the odd numbered seasons specifically because you're right we don't see as much I got to say though for those wondering like does millennials which gen X hold up it definitely does and despite the fact they're filming in VG it does not feel like a new era season the people are here to bigger and fight.
[UNKNOWN]: They're here to the cause drama.
[UNKNOWN]: They're here to get in showman's isn't be messy.
[UNKNOWN]: They're here to play the game It's not a perfect season, but is a season where it definitely feels like after Co-wrong Cambodia.
[UNKNOWN]: This is a different location.
[UNKNOWN]: They actually try some different things.
[UNKNOWN]: The stealer award I know you mentioned they really wanted Adam to do it ends up flopping, but at the same time it ends up driving
[UNKNOWN]: The bond between him and who it was a J. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's in war.
[UNKNOWN]: Like it's it's one where I think they brought it back It would need to like be a pre-merging thing Maybe the stealer award, but not steal immunity.
[UNKNOWN]: That's why I was thinking by the way they were doing it again.
[UNKNOWN]: He's gonna be not steal immunity makes stealer award
[UNKNOWN]: And I don't want to break the burger back though, it's funny with with all of the stuff they they threw in like the stealer award, I agree with you.
[UNKNOWN]: I think they could bring it back.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, Adam doesn't do it, but if you put that in Taylor's hands, Taylor probably is doing that.
[UNKNOWN]: I, this is where they introduce the legacy advantage of, I mean, there's so many twists in one is version X, but one is version X is is a breath of fresh air because it is a lot of players who are playing hard and then turn around and shake each other's hand and say goodbye.
[UNKNOWN]: Now, I know a lot of times I see nowadays, I get annoyed when people get voted out and they're like, oh, it's okay.
[UNKNOWN]: You're still my best friend in the world.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not even mad.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't like that.
[UNKNOWN]: These people were mad when they were getting voted out.
[UNKNOWN]: They won.
[UNKNOWN]: They'll be in the game.
[UNKNOWN]: But they also understood it was a game.
[UNKNOWN]: And I always think about when J gets blindsided.
[UNKNOWN]: J gets got.
[UNKNOWN]: And he knows he gets got.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's just how it is.
[UNKNOWN]: And he can't help but have the smile on his face.
[UNKNOWN]: I think with other people like Taylor, Taylor doesn't have a smile on his face.
[UNKNOWN]: And this is like ruined Jessica's life for a period of time after this.
[UNKNOWN]: Chris and Z he talked about Ponderosa's Chris Euryas at Zeke at Ponderosa.
[UNKNOWN]: He gives him the boom or sooner at the end But at the very when they get the Ponderosa, he's pissed at Zeke.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, for what Zeke did
[UNKNOWN]: I also meant to mention this when we were talking about the last season with the jury removal, because the open areas coming up, I hope that during the open area fell, they bring back the jury removal, but track me here, they change it, do a twist to it.
[UNKNOWN]: A jury edition.
[UNKNOWN]: What do I mean by that?
[UNKNOWN]: So at the merge, somebody can win a advantage to add somebody from the pre jury onto the jury.
[UNKNOWN]: So like, right before they fly them all out or whatever with the Prejury, like at the merge, somebody wins immunity, also wins that.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if that's like too much, but I think that would be a cool addition.
[UNKNOWN]: It also puts it, it puts a target on that person's back and away.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, well, we know they have a jury vote, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Because they added jury member.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: So I'm not sure if that's like, I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's an idea.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if it's a fantastic idea.
[UNKNOWN]: You do it in secret.
[UNKNOWN]: So I don't know if it's in secret, the jury member shows up though.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: So the jury member asked me on the jury.
[UNKNOWN]: So it's like, it could be in secret, the person you fix it.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's a good idea.
[UNKNOWN]: I think survivors problem with their stuff is they want to take stuff away from people and to encourage aggressive gameplay, you want to give people things.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: The problem with the steel or reward or whatever the atom has because it takes something away from somebody had atoms reward or thing that he found for water well or whatever, was true mail where we found it.
[UNKNOWN]: Then you also get to go on a reward, like had that bet he would have used it.
[UNKNOWN]: He wouldn't have given it to Jay.
[UNKNOWN]: He would have used it.
[UNKNOWN]: He would have held on to its own family, top to the family, challenge or whatever.
[UNKNOWN]: And he would have put himself in the family challenge.
[UNKNOWN]: And while that would not have had the same impact, Survivor didn't know that's where this was going.
[UNKNOWN]: They looked out into that happening the way it did.
[UNKNOWN]: the design wise, I think adding yourself to a reward that you were not supposed to be on is more likely to be played than stealing something.
[UNKNOWN]: And you know what it is, too.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like this one's also dumb because so many rewards are, okay, now pick people to go with you.
[UNKNOWN]: So Jay ends up using the stiller award.
[UNKNOWN]: He uses it in many ways.
[UNKNOWN]: And he picks David and then he picks Adam because Adam's the one who gave him the stiller award.
[UNKNOWN]: So like it's it's a very easy mechanism to break.
[UNKNOWN]: If it was all individual rewards, it would be different.
[UNKNOWN]: But it's not.
[UNKNOWN]: He gets to pick people and he knows he's going to get to pick people.
[UNKNOWN]: So he just picks the people that make the most sense and nobody can be mad at him.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, he's guaranteed he goes on it.
[UNKNOWN]: That's what I'm saying.
[UNKNOWN]: I think adding yourself to a reward would be a good.
[UNKNOWN]: It wouldn't be, it wouldn't be too much, it'd be very easy to track up for the audience as just like a thing.
[UNKNOWN]: But I think adding a juror, I think there's something there, I don't know if I fully develop the idea.
[UNKNOWN]: I like that, though.
[UNKNOWN]: I think that's the thing with survivor.
[UNKNOWN]: When you give people power, they want to play more aggressive.
[UNKNOWN]: But when you're threatening to take stuff away like they're boat, well shoot, I don't want to do this now.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't want to do this, we're going to threaten to take stuff away from me.
[UNKNOWN]: So,
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's one thing I think the card game surprisingly gets right that Jeff designed with exploding kittens like they don't take stuff away from you.
[UNKNOWN]: They just give you stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, yeah, because that encouraged you to play harder.
[UNKNOWN]: So anyways, Adam, very touching story here coming on to the season with his mom having one of those a stage four cancer at this point.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: crazy man insane and rewatching it and hearing how he sees his mom for one hour before she passes getting back from survivor.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like holy crap and like he says like he knows he gets that this is a TV show like this is real life and it's like shoot man that thing that hits me harder than Jeremy having a son.
[UNKNOWN]: Jeremy saw his cool Adam losing his mom an hour after getting home and not knowing for sure whether she heard him about him winning survivors.
[UNKNOWN]: Just like even now I could get goosebumps just for
[UNKNOWN]: Well, because it almost feels scripted, but like, you know, and like he said in like you just so clearly not it is his real life like this is this is Adams life, and you know, this is a conversation we just did we just finished out on Williams or Shenex our last episode for Every season matter comes out on Monday and we were talking about the legacy of the season and you know Adams winner satisfaction and all that obviously we're very satisfied he was a fan of our podcast before he became before he won
[UNKNOWN]: You know, when you're watching this season, it's like, could you do what Adam did?
[UNKNOWN]: Would you have gone and play?
[UNKNOWN]: Played the game?
[UNKNOWN]: No, I wouldn't have.
[UNKNOWN]: I know.
[UNKNOWN]: Exactly.
[UNKNOWN]: And I feel like that's how a lot of people feel.
[UNKNOWN]: And then there's some people who feel so strongly that way that they actually think Adam's like a bad person for going and doing this.
[UNKNOWN]: And they almost hold it against Adam.
[UNKNOWN]: And I feel like every family is different.
[UNKNOWN]: And I feel like my mom, if I would have gotten the call for that, she would have said, go do it.
[UNKNOWN]: I really do.
[UNKNOWN]: I feel like she would say, go do it because that's, you know, it means a lot to my family too and I understand this and I understand that still ultimately Adam has to make this decision, but this is the decision that him and his family all made and I know some people try to be like, Oh, well, he was selfish in this.
[UNKNOWN]: He was like, I don't think so.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, I think that people, people just stop understanding nuance and they say, well, I would never do this.
[UNKNOWN]: So therefore he is a bad person for doing this and it's like, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: To me, I think you're a bad person for assuming he's a bad person, like that's where I start going with this stuff and everybody can have their own opinion.
[UNKNOWN]: I just think that people so wrongly Said that Adam's win was because his mom died and that was just in great beat.
[UNKNOWN]: No, no, no, no time guys.
[UNKNOWN]: No.
[UNKNOWN]: And I know it definitely wasn't.
[UNKNOWN]: It helped him with Jay, but I don't think it definitely didn't get him this clean.
[UNKNOWN]: He didn't clean sweep the jury because of his mom having stage four cancer.
[UNKNOWN]: I gotta say though, like, okay, so I say I wouldn't go, but like, yeah, I'm with you like my family told me it'd be okay, I would do it.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know how it'd be emotionally.
[UNKNOWN]: doing it, but I would do it if they said that.
[UNKNOWN]: And he said it multiple times in a season like I'm doing this to my family, something with four or two and it makes you wonder like, did his mom, she passed away an hour after he gets back, right?
[UNKNOWN]: When she had passed away sooner, how do you just stay at home?
[UNKNOWN]: Because she clearly was looking forward to seeing her son again.
[UNKNOWN]: That's why she was fighting and living longer.
[UNKNOWN]: It's what it seems, I was not there just going by what I saw on the show at the reunion.
[UNKNOWN]: It seems like his mom was fighting so that she could see her son again.
[UNKNOWN]: Versus how do you just stay behind?
[UNKNOWN]: Well, my son didn't go on survivor because of me, you know, how would that make you feel as a parent?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, it's almost like I can't say out of my selfish.
[UNKNOWN]: I can't say that out.
[UNKNOWN]: And I mean, I know, I feel like it's, it's, it's, it's really compelling.
[UNKNOWN]: It's the question and I just hated how that circled.
[UNKNOWN]: And this was around the time of the internet.
[UNKNOWN]: It was really starting to pick up, pick up, pick up, and people just started getting so freaking nasty.
[UNKNOWN]: Reddit, this is when Reddit was like, I know Reddit is what Reddit is now.
[UNKNOWN]: But at this time, Reddit was like a cesspool the way they were talking about out.
[UNKNOWN]: And it was so disgusting.
[UNKNOWN]: And it was really, really sad.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, but, you know, I've interviewed almost, I've interviewed pretty much half this cast Chris Jessica will Sunday date.
[UNKNOWN]: I have an interview David, but like I talked to David quite, you know, I can't just let you know too long ago.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, I can't say.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: It's Sunday past away from cancer, but like I talked, you know, we interviewed Sunday a lot.
[UNKNOWN]: Obviously talked to Adam a lot.
[UNKNOWN]: Brett, they all say, if you sit next to Hannah and can you win 10 nothing, it was over.
[UNKNOWN]: And people tried to make it seem like
[UNKNOWN]: people tried to make it seem like Hannah had a chance and Adam with the mom thing is what have.
[UNKNOWN]: Hannah had no chance.
[UNKNOWN]: Hannah was a zero vote or one vote finalist every time at this final travel council.
[UNKNOWN]: Nobody respected her game.
[UNKNOWN]: Her move on David was a bad move.
[UNKNOWN]: Like it was a bad move.
[UNKNOWN]: Final five.
[UNKNOWN]: That's just a fact.
[UNKNOWN]: and people were not respecting it no matter how she tried to pitch it.
[UNKNOWN]: And so Adam was always going to win and if Brett sits there, Brett wins 10 nothing.
[UNKNOWN]: And if David sits there, he wins 10 nothing.
[UNKNOWN]: If Jay sits there, he wins 10 nothing.
[UNKNOWN]: The only one who probably doesn't win 10 nothing is will wall because some people said they were going to vote for an 18 year old to win a million dollars.
[UNKNOWN]: who had graduated high school yet, exactly.
[UNKNOWN]: But I do feel like, um, you know, that's like the dark cloud that kind of happens here.
[UNKNOWN]: But Adams game does he David does he be David?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, he was just a David.
[UNKNOWN]: He was the David.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: He was just a J too.
[UNKNOWN]: Really?
[UNKNOWN]: Well, Jay.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, Jay went, Jay went at the right time, but David obviously was the one being
[UNKNOWN]: the person to be to win.
[UNKNOWN]: And you're right, when Hannah made that move and that final tribal, that's the argument.
[UNKNOWN]: She's like, well, I got to make the decision and look how it turned out.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, I'm like, yeah, but you made the wrong decision.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it worked out, but you made the wrong decision, Hannah.
[UNKNOWN]: And like, that was the argument at final tribal.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, Hannah was, Hannah argued her case really well final tribal.
[UNKNOWN]: It's just that her decision's prior to final tribal.
[UNKNOWN]: didn't tank that like had she been arguing good decisions she made I think Hannah had a better shot but once you made some a couple of clearly bad decisions that annoyed the crap on a bread as you saw like bread was so annoying it's like what are we doing here what are you doing
[UNKNOWN]: Like, I could argue with you anything.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, if you're, I don't know, you're, you're, what can I say?
[UNKNOWN]: So if you're a chiefs fan, right?
[UNKNOWN]: I could argue with you all day that the Broncos, the Super Winning team is the best Super Bowl winning team of all time.
[UNKNOWN]: But if you hate the Broncos, you hate the Broncos.
[UNKNOWN]: It doesn't matter, you're going to never hear my argument.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's essentially how this was.
[UNKNOWN]: Hannah makes a solid argument for why she made the move.
[UNKNOWN]: However, everybody thought it was a stupid move.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, if they all disrespect it, nobody cares.
[UNKNOWN]: And so what I will say, and it's not really one move, but in my opinion, Adams best move is getting to the end game.
[UNKNOWN]: And it was purposeful with Ken who he was aligned with who was a really good strong challenge competitor, Hannah who he was aligned with who was more neurotic and wasn't respected by the jury, but then also getting there with three people that were always going to be seen as bigger threats than him and didn't have as close to relationships with the others and that was Jay Brett.
[UNKNOWN]: and David, because David had good relationships, but everybody knew David could win.
[UNKNOWN]: So Adam assumed, hey, we got to get rid of David, everybody knew that Jay could win.
[UNKNOWN]: You got to get rid of Jay, and then Brett just simply didn't have as strong relationships with Hannah or with Ken where they were ever gonna pick Brett over Adam.
[UNKNOWN]: Getting that far, and that was a purposeful decision.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, things go south when Jessica goes rock, draw it out.
[UNKNOWN]: The four people on the wrong side of that rock, draw are the final four of this season because they had good relationships
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that rock draw like Tyson, it's not as risky as Tyson's because Tyson was like one of like what four options three rock draw here could have knocked that amount he was not safe.
[UNKNOWN]: Definitely not worth moved though.
[UNKNOWN]: It wasn't the worst move, but it was definitely a risky move.
[UNKNOWN]: That rock draw that Jessica goes on because he could have flipped.
[UNKNOWN]: He could have voted off somebody else.
[UNKNOWN]: I forgot which side of the fence he was on with that one.
[UNKNOWN]: Do you remember?
[UNKNOWN]: Say that one more time.
[UNKNOWN]: So I'm distracted by this comment with the rock draw, which side of the fence was Adam on was he voting off Hannah?
[UNKNOWN]: He was going to see.
[UNKNOWN]: He's going to see.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: So it was Zeke Hannah David Ken and Jessica all go again.
[UNKNOWN]: Zeke they end up losing Jessica and then they end up being the final four because everything explodes after that.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I'm looking at the boats here.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you're right.
[UNKNOWN]: He votes for Z, okay.
[UNKNOWN]: I got to throw this up, Tyler Altman.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know about that, Phil.
[UNKNOWN]: So I love my teams, so I don't hate rivals on the Lions fan.
[UNKNOWN]: But if we are out in Green Bay, go to Superall, I want them to win because they're near us.
[UNKNOWN]: I am a die-hard Lions fan.
[UNKNOWN]: The Packers can go F themselves very nicely.
[UNKNOWN]: Like the Packers go O and 17 every year and every player on their team gets hurt.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a great year.
[UNKNOWN]: who time for the podcast fill time for the plot was the podcast the whole series i am an owner of the packers everybody is man everybody is do you put that i'm being legit for i know like i know it's mean it was like $200 but like that is my football team the packers so just it's so funny you look dude Jordan love i hope they don't want extending and extending it anymore
[UNKNOWN]: day will be a great.
[UNKNOWN]: They're going to sneak into the playoffs as the seven seed every year and they're going to get outstead before the soup.
[UNKNOWN]: Like my favorite thing about the packers right now is that because they've made the playoffs however many years in a row, there's like Jordan love is good.
[UNKNOWN]: Jordan love is good.
[UNKNOWN]: They're making it as the seven seed that didn't exist five years ago.
[UNKNOWN]: Jordan love is mid and I almost wish they had tried malach will us over him.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, like long-term, I wish they had, but the area committed too much money to Jordan love for those, not caring about football.
[UNKNOWN]: Don't worry.
[UNKNOWN]: We're going back that.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, we're going to do it in a second.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't agree with you.
[UNKNOWN]: Jordan loves overrated and overpaid.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm with anyone else.
[UNKNOWN]: I hope the bears keep Caleb Williams because he just said the easiest schedule of all time.
[UNKNOWN]: It didn't find in this year.
[UNKNOWN]: They're going to have a harder schedule.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think they are going to stink.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think Caleb Williams is going to just a lot of those passes.
[UNKNOWN]: He just chucks up into the sky.
[UNKNOWN]: Are going to get intercepted this time.
[UNKNOWN]: Our bears are going to expose
[UNKNOWN]: Anyways, back to Adam Klein for we lose everybody.
[UNKNOWN]: Adam Klein, where do you think he ranks amongst all 50 winners?
[UNKNOWN]: 36.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, 36.
[UNKNOWN]: The 33 actually, the same number as the season 33, you're close though.
[UNKNOWN]: The season itself is higher, where do you think it ranks?
[UNKNOWN]: 21.
[UNKNOWN]: Close again, 20.
[UNKNOWN]: So Adam is right below GM jam right above Kenzie.
[UNKNOWN]: I actually like Adam more than both those winners, but then that puts them right below my call away on rankings, and I like my call away more, but I do like Adam.
[UNKNOWN]: For me, I'd say Adam is a top half winner.
[UNKNOWN]: And I try to take my bias out.
[UNKNOWN]: Like if you were to ask me out of all the winners who are my favorites, it's Adam and it's Wendler.
[UNKNOWN]: Like those are the two guys that I talk to, I talk to them both a lot.
[UNKNOWN]: Like those are two guys that I really respect, that they've shown me nothing, but like respect from their whole time playing and everything like that.
[UNKNOWN]: Those are my two people.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, like that's just where it goes.
[UNKNOWN]: It's just personal.
[UNKNOWN]: But when I'm trying to take my bias out of it and I just look at Adam's game,
[UNKNOWN]: The rock draw 10, I don't like that.
[UNKNOWN]: I think that that's a silly move.
[UNKNOWN]: He's on the wrong side of the Marrivo right at the beginning.
[UNKNOWN]: It definitely benefits him that that tribe is able to win the next two travel council or the next community challenges who knows.
[UNKNOWN]: Not having an understanding of what Hannah was truly all about getting that far with her as a problem.
[UNKNOWN]: Like he gets to final five and he knows
[UNKNOWN]: Voting out David is the right move, but he doesn't realize that like other people are going to have their own agendas even if they're on agenda is a horrible one and he just kind of took for granted that Hannah would see things the same way as him.
[UNKNOWN]: The whole Taylor situation is so messy and weird and whatever so you could argue.
[UNKNOWN]: I think about that so he votes he picks figgy he votes off figgy over 10 you think that was the right move right move.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: The show has taken me long and you forget Adam was one of three people to vote not you but people in general Adam was one of three people to vote for Figgy at the first travel council.
[UNKNOWN]: Figgy and Taylor were holding that over at him's head They don't show that is much in the end, but they were holding that over that his head and Adam knows That next travel if they go two more times, he's done and they're never gonna team up with him and he already doesn't feel good with Jenny It isn't feel good with will he screwed he doesn't need them
[UNKNOWN]: No, he made the right decision.
[UNKNOWN]: He did get the iron of Taylor after that.
[UNKNOWN]: Taylor eats his way out of the get now.
[UNKNOWN]: Taylor, Taylor, and figure you need to be broken up for sure.
[UNKNOWN]: It's so, so I'm sure you already know this.
[UNKNOWN]: The whole, I did not realize it's till I watched Adam season again a few months ago, made his video on his winning season.
[UNKNOWN]: about digging tailor in their relationship because the show props them up ponderosa props them up even more and then afterwards tailor already had somebody else pregnant I guess is what I've gathered and so they broke up clearly because tail and then he ends up getting married to that lady and they have three kids and I don't know either names but it's so crazy because we're watching this like hard to rewatch knowing that the his future wife's already pregnant but watching him like
[UNKNOWN]: Lestover Figgy and then Pauderosa's like, oh, what a sweet boss robbing and we're lost story.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, no, it's not.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I find I really walk over it at the reunion.
[UNKNOWN]: They gloss.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, they say, oh, aren't we happy?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I know it's really exciting.
[UNKNOWN]: I know it's going to be a father and they don't address it at all.
[UNKNOWN]: I
[UNKNOWN]: I was telling, I was telling my wife about that and I was like, you're never going to believe like what actually happens with this story, but I can't tell you what happens.
[UNKNOWN]: And so once he went out, I told her and then she was like, so excited for the reunion.
[UNKNOWN]: And then they're just like, no, we don't talk anymore in the Taylor's like, yeah, I have a kid.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's like, and they just go away from him.
[UNKNOWN]: No, go back, go back.
[UNKNOWN]: It just gets so much worse when you watch Ponderosa and you see how much they prop up this relationship in the Ponderosa videos.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: It's just like, it's, I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: It's so weird to watch knowing that this is nothing.
[UNKNOWN]: It's almost like, it's almost as it, it's not the same.
[UNKNOWN]: It's almost as if D and Austin had ponderosivity as propping up their relationship knowing they weren't going to be together.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not the same though, clearly because, yeah, nobody got Mary and I'd get afterwards far as I know.
[UNKNOWN]: And I want to throw this comment up.
[UNKNOWN]: Darryl Seymour says, not doing the rock drug.
[UNKNOWN]: I'll give him a less chance of winning if he gets the end.
[UNKNOWN]: I kind of agree with that from Darryl there.
[UNKNOWN]: I just think at final 10 going to rocks, just feels so unnecessary.
[UNKNOWN]: It's final 10.
[UNKNOWN]: There's so much game left to be played.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think he needs to go to rocks at 10 ever.
[UNKNOWN]: That should be a lot of risk on over who.
[UNKNOWN]: Over who is he protecting?
[UNKNOWN]: That's because he's holding him off, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Like he was protecting Zeek, right?
[UNKNOWN]: He's, yeah, he's, no, he's voting off Z-Cray, put X-HANA.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, sorry.
[UNKNOWN]: I thought he was practicing Z-Cay to go back and look real quick.
[UNKNOWN]: Because Z-Cay goes like this.
[UNKNOWN]: He knows that he has a better chance of beating all of the people that he's going to rocks with than the other side, which is fair.
[UNKNOWN]: But, I mean, that whole game implodes after that anyway.
[UNKNOWN]: It's Z-Cay ends up going home with five votes because we'll flips.
[UNKNOWN]: And Hannah played her idol, but it wouldn't matter because he was going, Hannah misplayed that, it all.
[UNKNOWN]: It's part of why people are like, uh, not as impressive.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I'm never in control of anything.
[UNKNOWN]: Now, how many votes off from a perfect game was Adam?
[UNKNOWN]: Because he clean sweeps the jury like Jeremy did.
[UNKNOWN]: But he gets like eight or nine votes during the season, doesn't he?
[UNKNOWN]: He gets six votes.
[UNKNOWN]: Six votes.
[UNKNOWN]: And those, I'm trying to look at when he got votes.
[UNKNOWN]: I know he gets one of the David Tribal at the end.
[UNKNOWN]: David grows one on him.
[UNKNOWN]: Who else are votes on Adam?
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's the Michelle Bell vote is the other one to Michelle vote people throw Michelle has a crazy and this is Some people aren't going to think of this crazy Michelle has a secret scene.
[UNKNOWN]: I wish they left in the show where she talks about how Marco Polo Saw dragons in real life and she's like therefore there were dragons like a few hundred years ago and I'm like why was this not in the show That's why she wears the dragon at the end
[UNKNOWN]: It gives so much like context for Michelle and it's like why don't people trust Michelle at the merge because just yesterday They heard her talking about dragons existing like 200 or 300 years ago, whatever and it's like whether you agree with her or not Like it gives so much context to her boat off that I think they should have left it in the show.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, all right Great with the crazy secret if only crazy secret scenes I've watched like what what?
[UNKNOWN]: Why was this not the show?
[UNKNOWN]: I hate when they I watched a scene.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like this should have been in the show
[UNKNOWN]: because I didn't have to really figure out what Michelle was on the season.
[UNKNOWN]: That was the problem.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, so Adam, I think a very emotionally satisfying winner.
[UNKNOWN]: Messy game though definitely could have been voted off a few times how to fight, but the story, really him fighting for his mom, I really felt that.
[UNKNOWN]: And again, it felt like Matt Jeremy was like, this is an intro inclusion in the story.
[UNKNOWN]: It didn't, it wasn't four sob stories that they had to drag out of people, you know.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not Zander and 41 talking about how he
[UNKNOWN]: the best sobsory of all time fill and if you knew that one I do remember that this great and if you can stand your now zander is still very jacked guys but he was a little pudgy middle school so tears are streaming down my face as they forced the sobsory of zander yeah so i was uh a good season definitely worth rewatching everybody it even though it's that in bg and even though they have less challenge locations than they do now um
[UNKNOWN]: It's it's a good season.
[UNKNOWN]: You recognize them with the child's locations, but like one of them now fill in the new era is like overgrown with that overgrown, but like really tall trees, but in this season half of the child's location, the trees are like almost non-existent, like did they plant trees?
[UNKNOWN]: What happened?
[UNKNOWN]: I'm serious, like I can pinpoint exactly where it's at.
[UNKNOWN]: I was there in real life.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like, wow, there's this this child's location is like a square with a really tall trees, but then you watch 33 and 34, you're like,
[UNKNOWN]: It's almost doesn't look like the same location because like the trees haven't grown in yet.
[UNKNOWN]: It makes me wonder if they plan to trees or not.
[UNKNOWN]: I have no idea, you know?
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think they're doing landscape.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think they're out there planting trees.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but I don't think they're out there doing landscaping either.
[UNKNOWN]: So like, we're, I don't know, where were the trees before?
[UNKNOWN]: Why did they all set and grow?
[UNKNOWN]: That's not my area of expertise.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm here to talk with survivor, but just saying rain to lot.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: Shoot, dude.
[UNKNOWN]: It's seeing the island change over the years.
[UNKNOWN]: One of the things that you won't notice from the show, but if you pause and look at challenge occasions, you'll notice that the island changing from them being there.
[UNKNOWN]: Now, now we need like a still from the first immunity challenge of 33 to like the last one of 50 to see what it looks like.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, the challenge.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, they now have way more challenge locations in 50 than they do in 33.
[UNKNOWN]: Like there's so many now.
[UNKNOWN]: But in 33, they only had like a handful.
[UNKNOWN]: Also, we got to mention this last season with a normal
[UNKNOWN]: Is that what happened?
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, it's not that Z-crones it, but it's essentially Z-c does all the talking in 34 and like won't let anybody else talk and that's what always drove me nuts.
[UNKNOWN]: I felt like Z-c was way too much of an advocate.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like, wait, I want to hear from everybody else.
[UNKNOWN]: So I'm, so here's the thing is you when you watch these file travels like they change it with game changers, and it becomes It's trying to make it more rigid, but everyone has to sit down and clearly this so they can cut people out.
[UNKNOWN]: Obviously, like I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't care how they pitch it.
[UNKNOWN]: It's so that they can choose who they Who they who they show and who the survivors all by control.
[UNKNOWN]: They don't want to show every juror, so they don't have to over juror now.
[UNKNOWN]: But now we're in 50 and like 40 49 and so what we're almost back to normal words
[UNKNOWN]: Everyone gets asked a question, but they're sitting down now so they can still choose who to cut and who not to cut.
[UNKNOWN]: That's it's that we've we've come full circle we're back to worth.
[UNKNOWN]: We were a 33 just people are sitting down so standing up, which I like, but for a time sorry, Sarah, let's see a season.
[UNKNOWN]: No, let's do that with portion.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's do the outplay portion.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's do.
[UNKNOWN]: What what is this and I like I like that we got it for 50 and I know people were giving Stephanie a hard time who's there a question in this like it's like Stephanie's a lot to say what she wants Stephanie made it this far in the game.
[UNKNOWN]: She's allowed to sit here and make a speed that she wants to because that's her returns around and speaks for everybody and Tiffany's cutting everybody off like Stephanie's allowed to say whatever she wants she doesn't have to get to the question just because you all want it Feel like there was so much entitlement on that jury was insane
[UNKNOWN]: I, uh, I'm not a Stephanie fan, but I do agree that Stephanie's allowed just to make a statement.
[UNKNOWN]: But she did say she was going to ask a question, and then she did.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but it's like everybody else has these things.
[UNKNOWN]: And then three is so unbelievably mean to Joe for no reason.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, okay, like just bury the guy for no reason.
[UNKNOWN]: Jesus.
[UNKNOWN]: Anyways, we're here to talk about game changers now.
[UNKNOWN]: Game changers, Sarah the stage managers, Sarah LaSena come she's coming back to play like a instead of playing like a cop she's playing like a criminal.
[UNKNOWN]: I think her game plan is to be Tony to be the the Sarah version of Tony though should we call her LaSena because she asked for that or that or it doesn't happen until winners at war so no she's Sarah still okay she's Sarah here but and where's the war she's LaSena although Brad is Col Pepper which makes no sense I'm like come on
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, this season, man, what a just, like, the only, the only half of this cast is where they should have done fans or favorites.
[UNKNOWN]: That you know what they should have done, and this is my argument.
[UNKNOWN]: I think, and I think, I don't remember.
[UNKNOWN]: I said this on this podcast, or if I said another one, this is the version of all stars they need to do next.
[UNKNOWN]: They need to just do a hodgepodge, you can have winners, you can have non-winnerging, have pre-mergers, doesn't matter.
[UNKNOWN]: You, you can have anybody, and I like that.
[UNKNOWN]: The problem with this season was calling it game changers.
[UNKNOWN]: and having so many people that were so much more worthwhile, like, I'm sorry, but seared on Tom is getting on this season.
[UNKNOWN]: It's nailty.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Haley, who I actually quite like getting on this season.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, what were we, what was the point?
[UNKNOWN]: And then you're having JT and Tony and Sandra lumped in there.
[UNKNOWN]: And the thing of Michaela who goes out pre-merge, which Michaela is great TV, so I get it.
[UNKNOWN]: But this was such an all over the place cast.
[UNKNOWN]: But actually what drives the season down is this is the first season that is full blown production interference from day one today, 39.
[UNKNOWN]: I hate the season.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm fine.
[UNKNOWN]: Bill, can we talk a little bit about the people that were that they offered some people need to climb, but there's some people they offer, but they cut.
[UNKNOWN]: And I want to get from whether these are game changers.
[UNKNOWN]: Like should they replace the non-game changers?
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, because I'm with you.
[UNKNOWN]: I think half the cast is game changers.
[UNKNOWN]: The other half is not.
[UNKNOWN]: Including some of the games you said.
[UNKNOWN]: So here you go.
[UNKNOWN]: Jonathan Pennler, game changer?
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: Natalie Bolton.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: Marty Pionbo.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm okay with them not picking him, but I would have preferred him over.
[UNKNOWN]: He's more of a game changer than all the other people.
[UNKNOWN]: Then then half the cast.
[UNKNOWN]: So if he Clark is a winner, of course, because he could be on there for sure.
[UNKNOWN]: John John Cody.
[UNKNOWN]: He's not a game changer, but I would have watched John Cody play again.
[UNKNOWN]: Alexis Maxwell from Cagreon.
[UNKNOWN]: No, LJ from Cagreon.
[UNKNOWN]: No, but he's I would have watched.
[UNKNOWN]: I would
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, actually.
[UNKNOWN]: I was I was for a second.
[UNKNOWN]: I got mixed up with that John Cody was John Mish.
[UNKNOWN]: No, that's wrong.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, can't this has been Josh can't feel.
[UNKNOWN]: I think he's he's not a game changer, but he should have been on an all star season.
[UNKNOWN]: He should have been on game changer.
[UNKNOWN]: Carolyn, Mama C. National game changer.
[UNKNOWN]: My call away.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I would watch him play.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: No, I think I would watch Mama T too.
[UNKNOWN]: Penner, Bolton, Marty, Sophie Clark, and Mike Holloway.
[UNKNOWN]: Five people out of those.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like guaranteed should have also Mike called his shot before.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, I think before I, after World's party said, I'm going to win this game three times.
[UNKNOWN]: I want to see him at least get the three times of play and give him a second shot.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, he could have been right, but they just won't give him a second shot.
[UNKNOWN]: I know.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but you know Ethan was asked for this season as well.
[UNKNOWN]: He declined.
[UNKNOWN]: It says he declined.
[UNKNOWN]: So that's a little different.
[UNKNOWN]: I wasn't going to.
[UNKNOWN]: I can't knock survivor for asking people and then them saying no.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, Cole was supposed to be on, but he dropped out due to injury.
[UNKNOWN]: I can't knock survivor for that.
[UNKNOWN]: I can knock them for cutting people who were actual game changers though, like my call away, like Jonathan pattern, like Natalie Bowen, like Sophie Clark, you know.
[UNKNOWN]: Like if you offered winners and you then you cut them why you only have three on this season.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, this cast is this cast is a mess.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, I don't I don't mind it again.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not the cast that bothers me.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like the Malcolm Boot situation is so short-sighted.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, the three moment on the balance being we just watched that episode last night of like.
[UNKNOWN]: That's the fourth moment.
[UNKNOWN]: Worst, honestly, like that is a top five worst moments in the history of survivor for me.
[UNKNOWN]: And that is the seeds for the new era.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we can plant it in advance.
[UNKNOWN]: That's your seeds for the new era.
[UNKNOWN]: This is this middle school bullshit that we are doing.
[UNKNOWN]: Like give me a break.
[UNKNOWN]: Surries considered the greatest of all time to never win.
[UNKNOWN]: And we're alive, child.
[UNKNOWN]: Yay, so, it's so impressive.
[UNKNOWN]: Your kids are going to be so proud.
[UNKNOWN]: Man, it's just nonsense.
[UNKNOWN]: And also, like, the favoritism there, you're not doing that for anybody else.
[UNKNOWN]: I hate it.
[UNKNOWN]: I absolutely hate it.
[UNKNOWN]: I hate what the show becomes.
[UNKNOWN]: I hate the force moments.
[UNKNOWN]: It was no longer about just like the players and everything.
[UNKNOWN]: Production is so over the top this whole season, whether it's making two tribes go to tribal council as one or doing this moment with seri.
[UNKNOWN]: or having these random twists and advantages in the game, production just can't keep their finger out of it.
[UNKNOWN]: And I dislike these things.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, I like the two tribes going to Tribal as one.
[UNKNOWN]: I just think it was the wrong time of the season for it personally.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, you do it right after there's only been one vote.
[UNKNOWN]: I think the other problem is though.
[UNKNOWN]: No, I think we do it very beginning, Phil.
[UNKNOWN]: I think this is a first tribal council.
[UNKNOWN]: Agreed.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's pretty good.
[UNKNOWN]: The first very first tribal council, everybody votes everybody.
[UNKNOWN]: Everybody goes to tribal, all the tribes, all every player, almost like a merge vote, but it's the very first one.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I think that's the only time to do it and it's not in its fair because everyone is equal numbers.
[UNKNOWN]: So the people say tribes are wrong or they go through a pregame of lines is whatever.
[UNKNOWN]: It doesn't matter.
[UNKNOWN]: I think that's the only time you can do this.
[UNKNOWN]: But I think it was just missed time.
[UNKNOWN]: It's cool.
[UNKNOWN]: And I remember saying on the podcast that it was a very short-sighted twist that they were doing it to get the one episode of greatness.
[UNKNOWN]: And then they weren't thinking about the future repercussions.
[UNKNOWN]: We lose Malcolm.
[UNKNOWN]: Like J.D.
[UNKNOWN]: Words of Pile land.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, Malcolm J. P. Sandra.
[UNKNOWN]: Those are the three boots in a row and then Barnard goes out in the way he goes out and we end up with like a final eight or final nine.
[UNKNOWN]: We're really the only person that everybody was everybody and I mean everybody was truly excited to see was probably so re and Aubrey and at Aubrey at this point had kind of fallen off the
[UNKNOWN]: No, well, I'm talking about, you get down to final 11.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Debby Zik, Sierra, Andrea, McKayla, Cere, Aubrey, Troy's anti, and I love Troy's in.
[UNKNOWN]: Like I will go to bat for Troy's in all the time.
[UNKNOWN]: I like Brad Colpeper too.
[UNKNOWN]: I think Brad Colpeper's a very underrated character.
[UNKNOWN]: Sarah was my free season winner pick for Caggy on and I picked her again as a winner for this season.
[UNKNOWN]: I just think like you get to find all levity and you're like wow there's two people that we were all unanimously excited to see and it all does stem from production overdoing it and making it so that somebody like Malcolm couldn't just hide.
[UNKNOWN]: He's not his tribe is voting him off.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I know survivors all about we got to make the tribe smaller so people can't hide but
[UNKNOWN]: three situations over and over again now.
[UNKNOWN]: But yes, game changes is the seeds for a lot of the new era.
[UNKNOWN]: It's seeds for the rest of the 30s as well.
[UNKNOWN]: But it's really, this is really where the Cambodia is a shift.
[UNKNOWN]: But to me, it doesn't project the new era, this projects the new era.
[UNKNOWN]: We're great.
[UNKNOWN]: This projects where we were going.
[UNKNOWN]: And nobody liked this.
[UNKNOWN]: And the fact that advantage getting happens was three.
[UNKNOWN]: And to this day, Jeff still defends advantage, getting us some watershed moment that was good.
[UNKNOWN]: is just like, that's how to touch.
[UNKNOWN]: Do you do it with Jeff?
[UNKNOWN]: Nobody like the advantage got in.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, people in the street tell me, yeah, because Jeff, because to your face, people don't want to be mean to you, obviously.
[UNKNOWN]: That's just human nature.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Da-da.
[UNKNOWN]: I know.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not going to go into a space.
[UNKNOWN]: No, I, I, um, if there's someone here to install Jeff to his face, they just get fired.
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: Like, yeah, Jeff wouldn't, do you just would fire you in the ignore you?
[UNKNOWN]: It wouldn't work.
[UNKNOWN]: What a verb to me.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: This season is very similar to 41 for me, where I'm lower on the season than a lot of other people are because a lot of other people see the positives of the season.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, the gameplay, you know, Sarah's gameplay, which we're going to be talking about hopefully, is really good.
[UNKNOWN]: It's really good in the post merge, but for me.
[UNKNOWN]: I can't get over the fact that this season has all of the seeds for all of the things that I despise about what Survivor became and it's like 41 41 isn't Survivor so I can't rank it higher than the worst season of all time because it literally ruins the show.
[UNKNOWN]: It is going against everything Survivor is about.
[UNKNOWN]: That's how I feel about redemption, but redemption, I was actually also a shit season.
[UNKNOWN]: Uh, unanimously, everybody knows that.
[UNKNOWN]: And then the thing though with this season is like for all the good gameplay that's in there, I can't get over the fact that this epic Debbie blind side that Sarah pulls off, maybe her best move of the season also takes place in the same episode, retreating to relax.
[UNKNOWN]: She's a preschooler.
[UNKNOWN]: Like I, he, those things, and I hate that that's where the show went.
[UNKNOWN]: And so I knock game changers.
[UNKNOWN]: more than I knock a season like heroes, healers, hustlers, or even Ghost Island, because this is the one that is setting up the trajectory for survivor.
[UNKNOWN]: And I hate that this is the trajectory the show went on because it's just, I mean, the show is never the same again.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, in those version X is truly the last great season.
[UNKNOWN]: And David vs. Goliath is probably better, but the thing with David vs. Goliath is a lot of it is good because the team that you're rooting for is benefiting from all the trinkets.
[UNKNOWN]: It those trinkets go wrong.
[UNKNOWN]: You get a terrible season.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, they uh, that they've versed life is very, very, very, very, very reflective of the casting, or we even talk my fill with under, um,
[UNKNOWN]: What's your name again?
[UNKNOWN]: I'm so sorry.
[UNKNOWN]: Please come in.
[UNKNOWN]: Vince Billman, thank you.
[UNKNOWN]: Underland's film and words.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, well, we're wrong the dice that we're we're we're we're we're casting our shot in the dark that this these people are the ones are successful.
[UNKNOWN]: And that the other people are cannon fodder that we're wrong the dice of this happens.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's why I think a season this will never happen because this is just fantasy.
[UNKNOWN]: A season where half the cast is cast by Lynn's film and the other half is cast by just ten of the three.
[UNKNOWN]: perfection.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if I said that's the idea that you're ready, but that's to me is just like a perfection idea that will never happen.
[UNKNOWN]: That's just Survivors not that kind of competitive.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, why would they be like that's not gonna that just can't leave anything good behind the scenes But it would be fun to watch No shot that ever happened.
[UNKNOWN]: No shot anything the why would you pit two casting directors against each other?
[UNKNOWN]: It's just But it but we would make a fantastic season because they would be trying their absolute heart.
[UNKNOWN]: You know what the problem is?
[UNKNOWN]: This is what the problem is all of the
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know what the proper term is, but like all the casting associates, all the people who are under them are the same people who are the same under land.
[UNKNOWN]: We're a lot of people are the same.
[UNKNOWN]: So it's just a person, different person charge.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, there's like one or two people who are new, but for the most part, like the names that you'll see, do the same people that you're seeing.
[UNKNOWN]: We're just doing the job that they were tasked to do.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not exactly that.
[UNKNOWN]: That's why it's always the casting director and Jeff, because literally an interview is like a chef as well.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, these people didn't get on Cambodia.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm putting them on game changers.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Not everybody though, not everybody who was on Cambodian, just a few people, but it's like a few people, it's like, I don't know, do we have to bring them back?
[UNKNOWN]: Like was I, I needed Brad Kulfer, I needed Troy's in?
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know, I needed them both.
[UNKNOWN]: I know you, I know, I, so you and Jeff would have agreed with each other than this.
[UNKNOWN]: I voted for Troy's in non-stop during second chance.
[UNKNOWN]: I wanted Troy's in Savage, Terry, Shane, and Barnard.
[UNKNOWN]: Those were the five that I was voting for from.
[UNKNOWN]: I think we're having a different potential, but Troy's in did not.
[UNKNOWN]: I also think, I said this after one world, I don't rewatch a one world.
[UNKNOWN]: I think Troy's in as much more interesting when his back is against the wall because Troy's in as a hothead and Troy's in likes to fight for himself.
[UNKNOWN]: And like I've gotten a no Troy's in.
[UNKNOWN]: And like Troy's in as not a hothead in the way that like Rod is a hothead.
[UNKNOWN]: But Troy's in as you kind of guy were of his backs against the wall, he fights.
[UNKNOWN]: This person is like I can't really against the wall.
[UNKNOWN]: So he doesn't have to.
[UNKNOWN]: He likes Andrew.
[UNKNOWN]: He's better when he's back to the wall.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, where people like Boston are I'd like to be at the head.
[UNKNOWN]: So Sarah, let's see.
[UNKNOWN]: What's her worst move this season?
[UNKNOWN]: So here's what's fascinating about Sarah.
[UNKNOWN]: She votes correctly every single time with the exception of when Sarie goes, but that's not her fault.
[UNKNOWN]: because no one's full.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's nobody's full.
[UNKNOWN]: Nobody votes for Sri.
[UNKNOWN]: But she goes home or she votes correctly every single time except for and not the Sri one, but also when Haley goes she votes for Michaela.
[UNKNOWN]: It's her Sri Andrea and Zique voting for Michaela.
[UNKNOWN]: And that was kind of like Cere, they all knew because Cere even says I'm making this vote, but it's better for our game.
[UNKNOWN]: So they all knew it was just in case Hayley was going to vote if Hayley was going to play an idol.
[UNKNOWN]: So that was really the only thing that this was.
[UNKNOWN]: So it's hard to say what her worst move is because she is the one dictating who's going to go home.
[UNKNOWN]: She's the reason Debbie goes.
[UNKNOWN]: She's the reason it then flips back on to Zika at the next tribal council.
[UNKNOWN]: She's the reason Sierra goes like she is constantly the one.
[UNKNOWN]: She's the one who does this steal a vote at the McHale a vote.
[UNKNOWN]: Like she doops, Suri with the either legacy of bad.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's the legacy advantage where she gives it to her.
[UNKNOWN]: Sierra gives the legacy advantage.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, because Sierra gives it to her and then she gives it to Suri.
[UNKNOWN]: But Suri can't use it and Suri thinks she can.
[UNKNOWN]: And so like all of her moves are so good.
[UNKNOWN]: Like do you have one that stands out as bad?
[UNKNOWN]: Bad move.
[UNKNOWN]: I really, okay, so I haven't to be fair.
[UNKNOWN]: I've once gained changes fully through in a while.
[UNKNOWN]: It's been a couple of years I fully watched it through.
[UNKNOWN]: Unlike Millennials, which Jack's, which I just watched, I want to see her worse move.
[UNKNOWN]: because she was going to with Brad and Troy's in.
[UNKNOWN]: It worked out the Surrey went, because Surrey, Aubrey, Ty, voted together.
[UNKNOWN]: No way, no, they didn't.
[UNKNOWN]: Who voted, they either did vote together and then flipping Brad votes for Aubrey at that one where Surrey goes.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, you know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: Like, they were not unified.
[UNKNOWN]: Like that vote almost fell through.
[UNKNOWN]: Sarah's lucky Surrey went, because that was not the way the votes were panning out.
[UNKNOWN]: It was supposed to be Sarah who went at that vote.
[UNKNOWN]: Of course, everyone handed banagers.
[UNKNOWN]: Good for them.
[UNKNOWN]: But no advantage, Sarah goes at that vote.
[UNKNOWN]: She was right.
[UNKNOWN]: time, but like I don't think anybody knew about the the legacy vanges.
[UNKNOWN]: That's what I don't think three have a legacy vanges and she has something else or wasn't she gets the legacy advantage.
[UNKNOWN]: She okay, was the legacy vanges.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, because the legacy advantage brought me community choice and entire and Aubrey all play immunity idols.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, this was a uh, legacy vanges like a half baked idea to me.
[UNKNOWN]: It's very easy.
[UNKNOWN]: The advantage was not a good, yeah, it didn't work.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's very half baked.
[UNKNOWN]: It's forces, it's like production putting the thumb on the scale, like, okay, well, now and I don't will be played at the merge or at final six and I don't have to be played this time.
[UNKNOWN]: So just a half baked, just forcing people to do things is not good decisions.
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm sorry for those who are wanting to hear more Sarah, just that this season is
[UNKNOWN]: it's such a shame.
[UNKNOWN]: It does overshadow a lot of what could have been good because the food order and then clear production interference or bias.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't interfere.
[UNKNOWN]: It's just bad decisions.
[UNKNOWN]: Bad decisions.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, bad decisions because interference applies.
[UNKNOWN]: They stepped in and did something.
[UNKNOWN]: If they did, I don't think some of the things happen to do.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and if you're, so like in terms of bad move, I don't know, I rank Sarah very highly.
[UNKNOWN]: If you're saying though, in terms of best move, I think there's actually three, and I think they're all in a row.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it voting out Debbie right after it was a six, five advantage for her side.
[UNKNOWN]: Six, five advantage, and then Sarah says, no, I don't want to do this, because she realizes that the other side is more broken, right?
[UNKNOWN]: And then she immediately turns around.
[UNKNOWN]: She doesn't want to vote out Zick, but she's willing to go along with it, but then it's the next move.
[UNKNOWN]: It's the one where she gets rid of Sierra, because when she gets rid of Sierra, it makes it to that choice and in Brad have nowhere else to go, and she knows she can be choice and in Brad, right?
[UNKNOWN]: And she knows she can probably beat Ty, although Ty actually had a better game this season than a lot of people get credit for.
[UNKNOWN]: And that I think I think it was the Sierra moment was, okay, I have now weakened.
[UNKNOWN]: She plays the most perfect version of going back and forth for three straight votes, and people still have no choice but the combacter because she's so vital to everybody's plan.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's what sets in motion that she's gonna win the game.
[UNKNOWN]: So I guess the Sierra ones the best one, but realizing getting rid of Debbie in 11 was brilliant.
[UNKNOWN]: Honestly.
[UNKNOWN]: And Sarah, I mean, you're here in a winner's award.
[UNKNOWN]: She's like, last time when I played, I came out that season feeling like, what's she said she wants to face game changers?
[UNKNOWN]: I feel like I finished game changers real jerk and like, how come women are treated differently than men for doing the same thing?
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's what you're saying is that she played.
[UNKNOWN]: kind of a cutthroat villainous game showed it really want to lean into that story too much like I know she says at the beginning because they're like laying the foundation what's going to happen but I feel like Sarah's almost absent from the story the first half the season and it's not so second half where you really see her and it does hurt her story as a result and it makes me I want to connect more Sarah but I feel like I can't because
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean Sarah's not super, she doesn't have a lot of, she doesn't have ton of charisma to begin with.
[UNKNOWN]: So to get not give her as much screen time as she needs to really tell her story makes me not like her win as much and it's not that she didn't earn it because I do think she earns it over Brad and Troy's hand.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, I mean, again, I think anybody loses a story.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if you agree with that take.
[UNKNOWN]: The season I feel like anybody loses a story at the fall.
[UNKNOWN]: I think Sari wins almost based on, you know, she has the story, she has the legend status, she's gonna win.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if Sari's game is better.
[UNKNOWN]: I think Sarah's game is the best one this season, but I also will say Brad's game is very good and it's pretty underrated.
[UNKNOWN]: Like Brad knew what he had to do, Brad was just a little bit of a step behind on some of the strategic moments.
[UNKNOWN]: But Brad starts to really pick it up towards the end, especially when he starts getting
[UNKNOWN]: betrays and again, betrays and just ends up in a bad spot.
[UNKNOWN]: Troysam was trying to play more of a social game.
[UNKNOWN]: And I've talked to him about this.
[UNKNOWN]: It seems like Troysam was more focused on the social, and ultimately it's just not what the jury was looking for.
[UNKNOWN]: No, I mean, the season is called game changers.
[UNKNOWN]: You got to read the room on the theme and what we're expecting.
[UNKNOWN]: And no, for it's season, all game changers.
[UNKNOWN]: And this was filmed right after Aubrey lost Michelle.
[UNKNOWN]: Right after people just saw that happen.
[UNKNOWN]: People wanted Aubrey to win was the general consensus.
[UNKNOWN]: And so you're going into the season, expectations are set.
[UNKNOWN]: I think that's something that you consider here as we're, they do these back to back scenes.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's like, okay, what just happened?
[UNKNOWN]: before they filmed the season, you know, when you watch 50, 48 just finished airing, Joe just found out about Kyle and Camille's secret alliance, you know, that breaks him.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, it's so stupid.
[UNKNOWN]: That's stupid.
[UNKNOWN]: A secret alliance.
[UNKNOWN]: Sorry.
[UNKNOWN]: Can't stop reminding us about it as if I'd forgotten.
[UNKNOWN]: But yeah, Brad, I think Brad is playing a second place game.
[UNKNOWN]: And the only way for him to win would have been to
[UNKNOWN]: I think what also hurts Brad is like he gets kind of nasty to tie towards the end.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And that definitely hurts him from getting ties vote.
[UNKNOWN]: And it kind of rub some other people the wrong way.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, I don't know, it's it's it's a very like.
[UNKNOWN]: The, the women on that jury are going to respect a strong badass woman and Sarah plays the game as a strong badass woman and Brad did not pick up on that that's what the jury was going to do.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, it's great.
[UNKNOWN]: That's a great final tribal council though, the, even though I don't like that they changed the format, but like the Bradvers Sarah and even Troy's and just being like, look, I know I'm not going to win, but at this point, like what what the hell guys like it's a really good final tribal.
[UNKNOWN]: Because Brad gets Aussie, Deviant Sierra's votes, Sarah gets, I'm looking at this right, Sarah gets haily, she gets haily, she gets Zika, she gets Andrew and Michaela, Sariah Reti.
[UNKNOWN]: So Sarah, I mean, Sarah burns Sierra, Sierra doesn't vote for her, I guess is what happens there.
[UNKNOWN]: Sierra gave her legs to make a closer look to Brad the whole season too, like Brad and Sierra are a box step the whole time.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I will say though, unlike Cambodia,
[UNKNOWN]: a season bias where we saw Cambodia as you said the file five was all from like the same two seasons finally you know finally it was like Same the same idea or whatever, but like this season's not the same so I will give the season that credit doesn't it's not just It's not just all kai guy on or all you know whatever it's like these this is a variety of seasons, you know, just the same one or two but yeah, I don't know the season's just
[UNKNOWN]: It's a mess to watch.
[UNKNOWN]: They rush through things.
[UNKNOWN]: The whole premiere ends up being worthless because they switch tribes in episode two, which just feels so too fast.
[UNKNOWN]: Just no time to develop with these people.
[UNKNOWN]: They switch tribes to vote out one person and then do the double tribal council.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's like, right, why don't we do the double tribal council in episode two and then do a tribe's wish.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, again, just missed time to ideas.
[UNKNOWN]: Sarah plays a strong game.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think the show knows how to tell a story or wants to tell her story.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think this is, we talked about this the entire time.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, when it comes to the woman winner, it's like, we're never as impressed with the story.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's not the gameplay.
[UNKNOWN]: The gameplay usually is there when a woman wins the show.
[UNKNOWN]: It's just that the story's not interested or doesn't know what to do with.
[UNKNOWN]: And I don't know which one it is after the time.
[UNKNOWN]: I think on this one though, I do think Sarah's story is told really well in the post merge, but it doesn't happen until like episode 8, which you're talking your over halfway through the season before you really start to hear her story.
[UNKNOWN]: But then it starts to pick up and then I understand her story.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's almost like an American 41 where she literally a Kuzerika and then episode 10 shans getting going off.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, Erica, yeah, the hour glass lady.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, why I'm so scared about her?
[UNKNOWN]: That's how I feel about Sarah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I was just a pair about Sarah, I didn't know that.
[UNKNOWN]: I only got, I was less than half the season left.
[UNKNOWN]: I got to catch up on that because the season only has 12 episodes.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, because they do, they do three double boots, I think.
[UNKNOWN]: The season's like a rush job, man.
[UNKNOWN]: I think a bone too, only has 12 episodes or something like that.
[UNKNOWN]: I forget.
[UNKNOWN]: I forgot.
[UNKNOWN]: I just remember the season like, why are they such a rush?
[UNKNOWN]: Don't they want to like make the season last longer?
[UNKNOWN]: No, they didn't because they knew the season.
[UNKNOWN]: But I think what's interesting about this one and I don't know if episode 11 is two hours, but two of the three at least two of the three double boot episodes are two hours long.
[UNKNOWN]: So that's also pretty.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Andrew and McCail got in the same episode, and then the final six are all one of those.
[UNKNOWN]: I thought for sure, by the way, 50 was going to do the 47th thing of having two-part finale.
[UNKNOWN]: They didn't do it.
[UNKNOWN]: Or at least have a final six, so there was some drama around could three actually pull this off?
[UNKNOWN]: Or have a final seven because it was 24 people?
[UNKNOWN]: Why not?
[UNKNOWN]: And then Devon's in three both would have been there, right?
[UNKNOWN]: And we have a lot of excitement going in instead of that to the like, fizzling.
[UNKNOWN]: Going, well, yeah, I'm going into the finale.
[UNKNOWN]: There have been a lot more debate around who wins and like, yeah, there have been more exciting going to finale.
[UNKNOWN]: They just, I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't even know, like, that's just how played out.
[UNKNOWN]: So we have to do Sarah's ranking and this sort of happens when we have Michelle and Adam on the same podcast, we end up talking for way longer than two hours.
[UNKNOWN]: So we got to get on the bench.
[UNKNOWN]: So where does Sarah rank?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, Sarah.
[UNKNOWN]: I wish I just wish I cared more about Sarah, because I do respect her game.
[UNKNOWN]: I just Sarah as a character, I'm whatever.
[UNKNOWN]: Where do you think she falls in the ranks?
[UNKNOWN]: 17 27th.
[UNKNOWN]: That's way lower than I thought.
[UNKNOWN]: She's way higher than ours.
[UNKNOWN]: Right below Vasepia right above Marianne.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, she's a lot like Mary and ours.
[UNKNOWN]: I like Marianne more personally.
[UNKNOWN]: Where do you think game changers the season is ranked?
[UNKNOWN]: It should be 47, but it's probably like 35.
[UNKNOWN]: Your clothes are on your actual on your second guess.
[UNKNOWN]: It's 36th.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Right below 42 right above Caramelan.
[UNKNOWN]: I'll caramel and so much better than game changers.
[UNKNOWN]: So I agree.
[UNKNOWN]: Caramones about our season of the game, yes, agreed.
[UNKNOWN]: No doubt about it for you too though.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like fine, yeah, sure.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, we're the game.
[UNKNOWN]: Caramones better than the game changers.
[UNKNOWN]: I am so done with game changers.
[UNKNOWN]: Every time I have to rewatch it for anything, I'm like, ugh, do I have to.
[UNKNOWN]: And then how far, then I guess just how far away she does in getting the votes and she negates votes.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, good good question.
[UNKNOWN]: She's six votes off a perfect game because Brad gets three at the end But yes, the three votes she gets against herself kind of like Jeremy she negates them with an idol But unlike Jeremy doesn't clean sweep the jury.
[UNKNOWN]: So you can't say her be like, well, what did I ask her perfect game?
[UNKNOWN]: She didn't she didn't Brad look at three votes
[UNKNOWN]: And this is in the comments, but this last season have a normal final four vote out before they do their surprise final four firemaking.
[UNKNOWN]: It's funny because we talked for a long time about everybody and now we're going to get to Ben.
[UNKNOWN]: And I just truly feel like when we talk about like Ben's gain, it's going to be such a shorter conversation.
[UNKNOWN]: be interesting my hallway yes well because of the final four firemaking force because of all the idols that are being found it's not an immunity run it's finding trinkets and like yeah oh there like it's near where Ben tends to sleep at night goes and gets it and I like I like Ben I really do like I found myself rooting for Ben because I was never really a huge Chrissy fan I wasn't really big in the dab and I thought he was a little boring you know Ryan I liked Ryan
[UNKNOWN]: I also felt like Mike.
[UNKNOWN]: I never really connected with Dr. Mike.
[UNKNOWN]: So on that season, I'm rooting for Ben to win as it gets down with the end.
[UNKNOWN]: Are we moving on to, are we moving on to HVHVHVH?
[UNKNOWN]: Well, the reason for this episode is the model for firemaking.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, get to this final four firemaking.
[UNKNOWN]: And it feels like it like it ruins what could have been like if he survives that, it's like, oh, that's so much better.
[UNKNOWN]: So like, you know, with Sarah,
[UNKNOWN]: It's not like you lose a major major, major contender on your team.
[UNKNOWN]: I was not going, even if Tywin's a fire, he wasn't going to win the season.
[UNKNOWN]: So it doesn't change the result.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's not like 32, like Sydney gets in and she wins.
[UNKNOWN]: Like you have fire making anyway.
[UNKNOWN]: So I don't know, I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, the only thing that could have changed with fire making is 33, I guess, for the amount of season they might have done it during, maybe David, David?
[UNKNOWN]: He didn't do anything.
[UNKNOWN]: Dave, he don't really get a puzzle.
[UNKNOWN]: Who's he beating in fire, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Hannah, Ken, he's not being Ken.
[UNKNOWN]: He's not being, I don't think he's, I think Adam and Hannah beat him.
[UNKNOWN]: So, well, and I think it is probably Adam versus David in fire, because I think probably it takes Hannah and I think Adam beats David and Adam went to season.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, David would have been a hard one to win a fire.
[UNKNOWN]: So it really does feel like the season they choose to is the season.
[UNKNOWN]: We're also made a difference because I mean, we're on an already Phil.
[UNKNOWN]: Here is versus healers versus hostillers, what a terrible name.
[UNKNOWN]: But the see and also this is a season where they rush the premiere.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't like this.
[UNKNOWN]: I know this is another season.
[UNKNOWN]: This is the one that stands out to me.
[UNKNOWN]: The premiere is like 43 minutes of that commercials.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's just like, I think all premier should be an hour and a half.
[UNKNOWN]: I think Katrina gets one confessional.
[UNKNOWN]: It's just like when they have to rush the first episode, you can tell.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's that I feel the Vanuatu Vanuatu which had been an hour and a half because they clearly had planned for more time.
[UNKNOWN]: This season, nothing was planned for more time.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a premiere and I feel like our premiere should get an hour and a half to two hours every season of our one.
[UNKNOWN]: And thankfully now that's the case.
[UNKNOWN]: of course but yeah back then it was like what are we rushing for what what is happening after this that we're in such a rush this is streaming a taken over this point is 2017 this is not this is not the streaming was around streaming was the thing what are we what are we in such a rush for yeah this started the season is rushed and I think it doesn't help the season overall a strong premier can do a lot to set the foundation for where we're going and the season I feel like rush is the foundation and you feel it
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: No, and here's Resilers, Resilers, Resilers.
[UNKNOWN]: to me like this season gets really hated on I actually don't I actually like this season a little bit I think that the cast is kind of funny it's just I understand why people get frustrated at the end I do feel like Ben is as satisfying winner I remember saying at the time that the heroes versus healers versus hustlers finale is one of the best that like one of the best fanalities in the show's history and I still believe that that episode has so much going on Ben playing the first idol the two one vote that that Devon pulls off or you know or whatever it is
[UNKNOWN]: Because that's, that's what I, yeah, yeah, Devin throws the boat at Mike.
[UNKNOWN]: I think that, you know, the final four firemaking is good.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think it's a good, a really good final three and an exciting final travel council.
[UNKNOWN]: So for me, like, I really like this finale.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think that this season is good.
[UNKNOWN]: The problem with Ben's game is it's like, he goes to one tribal in the pre-merge.
[UNKNOWN]: Then the post merge happens.
[UNKNOWN]: He votes correctly the first three times.
[UNKNOWN]: And then everything starts to go south for him.
[UNKNOWN]: But they let him play double agent.
[UNKNOWN]: And so while he has all that stuff, you know, he, he what plays two idols and wins two immunities in like the final four episodes or something like that and then has fire while he has all that stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: They also gave him, he doesn't actually win any immunities.
[UNKNOWN]: They gave him ammunition.
[UNKNOWN]: He's the opposite of what I call the way, yeah, they gave it to him by letting him kind of like go and play double agent so it's weird I don't know like that's his best move is playing double agent because he gets to make everybody I really I know Ben came out of the season thing you may he had just made enemies
[UNKNOWN]: Because you see it on winners awards like, oh, and it's like, oh, what are we doing then you should have come back for winners of war dude.
[UNKNOWN]: They should have replaced you with my colloy.
[UNKNOWN]: They didn't know they didn't know Jeff love Benjrey work and they did a whole like montage room at the finale.
[UNKNOWN]: It felt like extra like more than they usually do.
[UNKNOWN]: They were clearly loved the Ben-Wand, and I liked the Ben-Wand.
[UNKNOWN]: I was very excited by this.
[UNKNOWN]: Him playing idols, Ben bombing, everything is fun.
[UNKNOWN]: It's fun.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, and if people are going to come out this season and be like, I don't like you Ben, because how you played, like, well, they're not real fans survivor, because the way Ben played is what is what we should be wanting.
[UNKNOWN]: the aggressive gameplay is what people generally like and he wasn't really that much of a jerk.
[UNKNOWN]: He was emotional.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's where Ben gets caught up.
[UNKNOWN]: Ben gets emotional, but I don't think he was really a massive jerk to people.
[UNKNOWN]: From what I recall, I'm sorry if he actually was a massive jerk and I'm forgetting it.
[UNKNOWN]: He lost it.
[UNKNOWN]: I remember being like he definitely was emotional.
[UNKNOWN]: He's not a game bot.
[UNKNOWN]: Speaking of game bots earlier, he's not a game.
[UNKNOWN]: He's emotional, but it works.
[UNKNOWN]: It works for his story and it works for how he wins.
[UNKNOWN]: So, I don't know, I know he wants to make friends on one or so war and it kind of to me kind of knocks like I feel like you don't value your own win band when you say something like that, you know, I think is when it was good.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's a good win.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and I guess it's he played three idols in a row, but one of them he doesn't need to play because they all vote for Ashley.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but he plays three idols in a row, one is played incorrectly, two are played correctly, then he gets saved by fire.
[UNKNOWN]: My thing is,
[UNKNOWN]: If that's going to be the rules of the season, if that's what they're going to do, keep doing it.
[UNKNOWN]: If you have to keep finding out, I don't keep finding out, I don't keep doing it to do.
[UNKNOWN]: Ben was wearing very low in our winter rankings.
[UNKNOWN]: He ended up coming in at 46.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not for me, but for the fans, I mean, where did he come through there?
[UNKNOWN]: One, take a guess to guess.
[UNKNOWN]: 45.
[UNKNOWN]: 46.
[UNKNOWN]: You should just stuck with what you can do.
[UNKNOWN]: 46.
[UNKNOWN]: The same.
[UNKNOWN]: The season itself though.
[UNKNOWN]: It ranks a little higher or is it rank?
[UNKNOWN]: 38.
[UNKNOWN]: 39.
[UNKNOWN]: You're so cool.
[UNKNOWN]: I know what it is.
[UNKNOWN]: Now that we've done our winter rankings and like I've compiled it, I can kind of like see what area people should be in.
[UNKNOWN]: So it's making a little bit easier.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's a shame that this season drank one spot below 43.
[UNKNOWN]: I think 43 is so much better thing.
[UNKNOWN]: It's credit for.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, 100%.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm glad you read that at 43.
[UNKNOWN]: 43 is a great season.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not it's not great, but it's like it's I guess it's so underrated that I'm like cropping up more.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a good season.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a good season, but it's been treated like a bad season.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not Ben's right above Tommy Sheenham and right below Jenna Marasca.
[UNKNOWN]: Wait, above Tommy.
[UNKNOWN]: So Tommy, she has 47.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: People, we just, Tommy, it's the island of the idols effect.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's what that is.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, that's learning on it.
[UNKNOWN]: We just ranked Tommy.
[UNKNOWN]: We put him at 32 and people felt that we were too low on him.
[UNKNOWN]: And I was surprised.
[UNKNOWN]: A lot of people were going to think we were playing favorites.
[UNKNOWN]: But I know, Tommy, you just, the people don't like season.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think it reflects in his win in the way he gets ranked, unfortunately.
[UNKNOWN]: It's the human nature when he comes to ranking people.
[UNKNOWN]: It's every year too.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not like this.
[UNKNOWN]: That's an anomaly.
[UNKNOWN]: Like last year is 44.
[UNKNOWN]: It's about the same spot, you know.
[UNKNOWN]: So you're going to your fans need to rewatch that season.
[UNKNOWN]: I, you know what, that's the thing, Phil, on my channel.
[UNKNOWN]: I actively encourage people to skip that season.
[UNKNOWN]: I've never, I think you're probably a problem.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm part of the problem.
[UNKNOWN]: I have, I try not to watch the season.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't like it.
[UNKNOWN]: It's just, I can't, a little damn thing is, it is too much.
[UNKNOWN]: Like everything else I can handle, the Thailand stuff is bad, and I don't want to watch that either, but like, I don't know, the dance stuff's like even worse.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's because the show, it almost seems like the show is actively,
[UNKNOWN]: ignoring.
[UNKNOWN]: The Thailand stuff gets resolved, doesn't get resolved well, but it gets resolved.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, Gandhi has gone, so it's resolved.
[UNKNOWN]: That doesn't mean it's right.
[UNKNOWN]: But like, the Dan thing just persists and the show just lets it happen.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's what gets me is like, they knew about it and they just sat there and did nothing.
[UNKNOWN]: It doesn't get resolved.
[UNKNOWN]: It does, it just sits there.
[UNKNOWN]: And then, oh, he touches a, he touches one of the people works in the
[UNKNOWN]: which like from what I understand he was falling on a boat and reached out and grabbed somebody and it's like but you weren't worried about the Kelly stuff you were only worried about this like I don't know it was bad yeah I can't even speak on that I'm just saying like they they let it go for far too long and then they then they ghosted social media for a week to ignore everybody so yeah I'm more like in the
[UNKNOWN]: I don't remember it.
[UNKNOWN]: I only want to go back and watch it.
[UNKNOWN]: So it was something I heard about Ben, Ben plays an emotional game, which I think helps people connect to them.
[UNKNOWN]: I do think he should have been vote off at four, and it's like, get why people knock his win.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a bit like Chris Underwood.
[UNKNOWN]: Chris Underwood did give vote it off.
[UNKNOWN]: Ben Dreeberg and should have been voted off.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think have they told everyone at the beginning season this year, like they didn't even change something like, hey, if there's a tie, the third person's gonna break the tie, this season, if they're at file four,
[UNKNOWN]: there will be a firemaking challenge or there's a different way we're handling file for.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not gonna be a straight boat.
[UNKNOWN]: Like how they said something like that, I think that would have at least felt made everyone feel like, okay, like while it is a survivor twist, it's not, it can be treated like, okay, we can't let Ben get to four, we gotta get him out.
[UNKNOWN]: But then Ben still gets to four.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, okay, that's all not like we knew it was coming, but they didn't know it was coming.
[UNKNOWN]: Everyone, including us, we're surprised.
[UNKNOWN]: We shouldn't be surprised by anything.
[UNKNOWN]: Edge of extinction would have been a terrible surprise if they not told us that everyone was living on the edge for six episodes or whatever.
[UNKNOWN]: I know they did it with the Outcast twist.
[UNKNOWN]: Those sons of guns got away with that one on Pearl Islands.
[UNKNOWN]: They were just playing fast and loose like pirates that season.
[UNKNOWN]: That's what they were doing.
[UNKNOWN]: And it helped that it was Sean and Austin, who were punished the most for that.
[UNKNOWN]: Because nobody cared about either of them.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, how cast definitely was a result oriented that worked.
[UNKNOWN]: But the season, the result changed the game.
[UNKNOWN]: And everyone just like, I like Ben, but like I also think this is a bit unfair.
[UNKNOWN]: They didn't give many heads up about this.
[UNKNOWN]: And what's funny about this as we're now talking about, you know, even if the challenge we're Chrissy wins, they didn't tell her that's what she was going to win.
[UNKNOWN]: I know, that would have been a little bit better and I wouldn't have been much right, a little bit better.
[UNKNOWN]: I did cut you off Bill, but a little bit better.
[UNKNOWN]: I think just hold, hey, this challenge is not for.
[UNKNOWN]: straight immunity.
[UNKNOWN]: You're also going to be deciding who makes fire.
[UNKNOWN]: Like that would have been at least a little heads up.
[UNKNOWN]: You're also going to be punished for winning.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like as we talk about, you know, throughout this and we haven't done it too much tonight, but like are these games replicable?
[UNKNOWN]: Can these people win these seasons?
[UNKNOWN]: Is this a game that you can mimic?
[UNKNOWN]: You had said with Jeremy, you feel like if you tell people, that's the game you should try to play.
[UNKNOWN]: I actually feel like this group of five.
[UNKNOWN]: might be the group of five that is if you watch any group of five and these aren't the best seasons, but if you watch any group of five, this might be the group of five winners you want to watch because you can win as any of these people in the new era.
[UNKNOWN]: Jeremy with the Shield strategy had him with a similar superfan shield strategy, get a couple trinkets.
[UNKNOWN]: You have Michelle in there who's playing the under the radar social game, which Aubrey just won with.
[UNKNOWN]: You have Sarah who's playing the middle of the road under the radar.
[UNKNOWN]: No, I'm not totally doing this, but like, you know, willing to go back and forth a little bit.
[UNKNOWN]: And then I think with Ben, if everything goes wrong, just find a bunch of things because that exists still in surviving.
[UNKNOWN]: You can win by just finding things.
[UNKNOWN]: And so I think that this is actually probably the group of five.
[UNKNOWN]: That is the best group to watch to try to study and say, okay, if my game goes wrong here,
[UNKNOWN]: What should I do?
[UNKNOWN]: How should I pivot?
[UNKNOWN]: And I think if you watch these five, you'll figure out how you should pivot and how you could still win the game no matter how bad things go early.
[UNKNOWN]: I agree with the comment here from I think it's Lee High Valley Bear saying, if you place a ride we need to build Mcfire, I agree, like, yeah, it doesn't excuse Survivor not giving them a heads up, but I agree, you should build Mcfire, and I think it's why I don't, I feel zero sympathy for Rizzo losing on 50 to fire.
[UNKNOWN]: I feel no sympathy, dude had weeks to make fire in weeks.
[UNKNOWN]: He knew he knew he's going on Survivor, he's a fan of the show, it's not news, he wasn't recruited.
[UNKNOWN]: He knows what's coming.
[UNKNOWN]: He chose not to practice it, and that's on him.
[UNKNOWN]: You know like how even like I practice all season I saw us a Jonathan, but okay, I can respect Trying but when you don't try it's hard for me to respect that like you just didn't try.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Well Like 49 is one thing, but after losing a 49 it's like maybe you should learn this skill I was hoping to have to avoid this while you don't win immunity.
[UNKNOWN]: So what was the plan here?
[UNKNOWN]: You also be fair.
[UNKNOWN]: He had what like two days to give like two weeks in between.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, but Jonathan said he was practicing on the island every day Yeah, but Jonathan's also like that that makes sense for Jonathan.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not saying we're going to practice on the island I'm not saying is eight days in between was a different I'm saying should have practiced on the island like when findings be made is sitting on exile with Aussie doing nothing Hey Aussie, can you teach me how to make fire?
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I don't want to actually learn.
[UNKNOWN]: I'd rather just sit here and you do it for me.
[UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that was like the whole, and Cole, he's like, Rizzo just sits around doing nothing.
[UNKNOWN]: He's kind of annoying.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, he turns around, I'm liking Rizzo, but Rizzo does nothing.
[UNKNOWN]: That was like a storyline, like Q's like, he does nothing.
[UNKNOWN]: Point being is that Ben New had to make fire, and it worked.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think Devon, I don't remember Devon being too far out of this one, was he?
[UNKNOWN]: Devon wasn't too far out of it, but but Devon see that was the other thing is like Devon didn't know it was coming, but Ben did right was something like that no Devon knew it was coming, but then didn't yeah that's what it was, but Ben was like already making fire so I don't know well and that's the thing final four firemaking existed since season 10 if I recall that was the first time they did final four firemaking as a tiebreaker, but I don't think Ben thought there was a tiebreaker happening.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I don't think it was a tie right here happening, like I wouldn't have thought that I was bad.
[UNKNOWN]: So Ben went in unprepared, which is even more impressive.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, so where, so like in your grand scheme of things like Ben's man, I know you said it's like a worse version of my college, much worse version of my college.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I feel like my college didn't need any production to help him, and I feel like Ben did.
[UNKNOWN]: But, but, and I want to just, and I know that this is in what you're
[UNKNOWN]: Production didn't help Ben.
[UNKNOWN]: No, production choices helped Ben and that's the different production wasn't rigging this game for Ben because we're the time.
[UNKNOWN]: That's where they planted idols I don't I don't know if they plan that preseason.
[UNKNOWN]: I think Flint or whatever they're called goes out there and just decides here's where planting the idol.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, I'm not saying they don't do an advanceence plan a preseason, but like that's one factor of the show.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if that's planned or if they've got there and go based on vibes.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, there's no note, it's hashtag, hey, go, search here for the idol.
[UNKNOWN]: Those are planned.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, no wrong words.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, it's up this tree.
[UNKNOWN]: You need to like, push the thing and the key or whatever to get out of the tree.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, that's a planned idol.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, there was plan to be there.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, we're just tiding it at the boat or whatever, like, why is this planned?
[UNKNOWN]: Or was this done last minute?
[UNKNOWN]: You know, that's the kind of stuff that makes you go.
[UNKNOWN]: Whereas Mike didn't need anything like that.
[UNKNOWN]: Mike didn't need things that seem like he didn't, I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: So Ben has a character, I like more than Ben the strategist, I guess that makes sense.
[UNKNOWN]: I do like Ben the character.
[UNKNOWN]: He's emotional, which just makes more violent television.
[UNKNOWN]: So what was your question?
[UNKNOWN]: Which is generally about Ben?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it was just like, where do you stand on him?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I don't want you to.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't want you to.
[UNKNOWN]: He's a bottom 21er, bottom maybe bottom 15, but I do, as a character, I like him, but I'm not too impressed by his strategic game.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: And also, I don't like that he got cast over Mike on winners at war.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: He has Mike a second chance with the heck, guys.
[UNKNOWN]: I think Mike would have made more sense too.
[UNKNOWN]: I agree with you.
[UNKNOWN]: I think Mike would have made more sense.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think Mike would have had like a better time.
[UNKNOWN]: I talked to Ben very briefly after his season.
[UNKNOWN]: And it was, I mean, it was rough for him.
[UNKNOWN]: It really worked.
[UNKNOWN]: He was not emotionally ready for it.
[UNKNOWN]: No.
[UNKNOWN]: So word, okay, so we talked about the rankings.
[UNKNOWN]: Ben is actually the furthest off from a perfect game.
[UNKNOWN]: How many votes is the off from a perfect game, by?
[UNKNOWN]: No, he loses three at Final Tribal and gets at least six votes at the Rimmer vote.
[UNKNOWN]: He gets three at the, I mean, he's got to be 15 votes off.
[UNKNOWN]: One, you're, you're always one off, Phil, 14.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: You can take your initial gut and then go, okay, should I go up or down?
[UNKNOWN]: I just got to find this one, minus one, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, minus one, plus one.
[UNKNOWN]: He's 14 votes off.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you're right.
[UNKNOWN]: He missed three votes at Final Tribal and then got 11 votes against him during the game.
[UNKNOWN]: Though had he predicted correctly and all three idols were needed.
[UNKNOWN]: It would have been even more, you know, it would have been even more.
[UNKNOWN]: But that one boat that Ashley went and he didn't need that to play the idol.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, because when he votes, when he plays that idol for Ashley, it's a five one and he doesn't get anything and he's pissed.
[UNKNOWN]: And then that's when everybody was like, are you kidding me?
[UNKNOWN]: They're hiding an idol at final five for him to find.
[UNKNOWN]: That's what people were pissed at.
[UNKNOWN]: War smooth for Ben though is definitely making everyone want to get him out.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, I don't know if we don't worst move best move, but worst move for Ben is he's social game during the season was everybody wants Ben out, which is what we talk about.
[UNKNOWN]: The same thing, like Mike's worst move was making everybody go against him.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, what was it that set them all off on ban?
[UNKNOWN]: I don't even remember I think it was the double agent thing.
[UNKNOWN]: They gave him the opportunity.
[UNKNOWN]: I know But this is the same group people the Kelly world's apart.
[UNKNOWN]: They get it's like sat around and let them keep looking for idols And like Ben doesn't have anything.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's make a fake and trick them like that was this season They thought they could outsmart Ben by making a fake like ha ha and Ben just like turned for And he's like I already have the idol already done this the fake idol isn't going to work.
[UNKNOWN]: I already have the real thing so
[UNKNOWN]: His best move, though, is clearly finding idols and playing them.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, as simple as that sounds, it really was.
[UNKNOWN]: Because without that, he doesn't make it to file for or he had to do it.
[UNKNOWN]: Whereas I think eventually, when we get to Chris Underwood winning, Devin's did both.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think that's actually more fun to watch.
[UNKNOWN]: Devin's winning advantages are getting immunities and winning challenges.
[UNKNOWN]: He's like a mix of my colloy and bends, chaotic gameplay.
[UNKNOWN]: But you know, where's they both, each did one thing it seemed like, although Mike actually did find an I don't think has, you know, there was just less idols to find out where also part of it.
[UNKNOWN]: But Devons was just so dominant across the board with both aspects that, you know, so anyways, Ben's Ben's best gameplay for me is playing idols.
[UNKNOWN]: Do you agree or do you think something different?
[UNKNOWN]: I still think it's a double agent.
[UNKNOWN]: I think that's his best.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, the Rimmer one where he negates six votes is great, but I still think it's a double agent moment because I mean, to do that, that was when he pretty much was at the point where if he gets to the end he wins.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and hey, I mean, the jury picked him to win.
[UNKNOWN]: So people like he didn't earn, he didn't deserve it.
[UNKNOWN]: But it's not up to him to redesign the season.
[UNKNOWN]: I can't knock Ben for the decisions of production.
[UNKNOWN]: I can't.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I can't knock Ben.
[UNKNOWN]: The people sat on their hands and let him go find idols either.
[UNKNOWN]: They could have found the same idols.
[UNKNOWN]: No, I mean, I totally agree.
[UNKNOWN]: Totally agree.
[UNKNOWN]: So all right.
[UNKNOWN]: Are we done with 31 35?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, next, so not next week, everybody in two weeks, we're gonna talk about from Wendell Hall and through Tony Vlachos.
[UNKNOWN]: And then we're gonna be speed running the final two as well.
[UNKNOWN]: So the new air will be on the 30th and 31st.
[UNKNOWN]: We're getting all the fun biogas because then I'm away for the first week of all.
[UNKNOWN]: We'll do, so in two weeks we'll do part eight of the series and then, yeah, the very end of August, very end of July, we're gonna do double header and knock out the entire new era.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I can't waste more time than two days on the new area.
[UNKNOWN]: Do you want to have any conversations?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we're doing part three of our winner rankings next Tuesday, everybody.
[UNKNOWN]: I know I had said the other day that it was going to be on Monday.
[UNKNOWN]: It's going to be on Tuesday at 7 30 p.m. Pacific 10 30 p.m. Eastern time.
[UNKNOWN]: That is, I mean, this we're about to hit our most controversial episode.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm so excited for it.
[UNKNOWN]: This is the one that's definitely going to have the most controversy of people who are in here.
[UNKNOWN]: People who should be higher.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not really about who should be lower.
[UNKNOWN]: It's more of like how are some of these people
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's it.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, what do you have coming up over the next 14, 13?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: The next week, so actually looks built because then you're going to ask, uh, next week on my channel, these are already up on page trying to if you don't want to wait.
[UNKNOWN]: But next week, I'm releasing Kelly Wentworth's second chances video, second chance video.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, that's going to go up on YouTube next week.
[UNKNOWN]: And also, I did a video about the double quits of Nehaka purple Kelly.
[UNKNOWN]: So, secretly, it's a video about Nehaka, but I know that people, so I, it's,
[UNKNOWN]: It's in a package that more people will watch, but it's really the chaos of those two.
[UNKNOWN]: And the purple, it's about the purple edit and about Niank at same time, and they're double-quit.
[UNKNOWN]: So can I just have like one comment, or I'm just like, oh, no, I had that person and that's it.
[UNKNOWN]: I think, yeah, we're talking about Nick Rogg.
[UNKNOWN]: What are we doing?
[UNKNOWN]: I'm just saying, I just want, I, that's a brutal video to make.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if I could do that without getting mad.
[UNKNOWN]: So it was a fun one to make.
[UNKNOWN]: It's, it's, it helps when I go in the videos, I know, okay, how do I want to tackle this one?
[UNKNOWN]: You know, how do I want to approach this subject?
[UNKNOWN]: Like, dance feel I'm never gonna approach it anyway, other than, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: But the other, everything else, I can look at multiple viewpoints.
[UNKNOWN]: And the, and the dance fee, though, one is a losing battle.
[UNKNOWN]: There's like no reason to make that video about it.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, somebody wants to ask like, hey, if I win the survivor fantasy league, kind of big dance be a little, I'm like, sure, if you want to waste your win on that, you can.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I'll make it.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not anti-making.
[UNKNOWN]: It's just, do you want to waste your win on that?
[UNKNOWN]: That's up to you, I guess.
[UNKNOWN]: What do you think I'm going to say for what?
[UNKNOWN]: No, that's what I'm saying is like when they're telling you make the dance feel it's like what is no secret Yeah, it's not a secret New wants do you think is about the command?
[UNKNOWN]: I got a project in spule as a hero now.
[UNKNOWN]: No, I don't
[UNKNOWN]: Alright everybody, we'll like this video, subscribe to the channel and I'll see you guys all on Tuesday.
[UNKNOWN]: We're also going to be putting out McKenna surviving the fandom on Monday and then bidder better.
[UNKNOWN]: The jurors episode is going to be coming out on Wednesday and then West and I will see you on the 23rd with the next episode of this.
[UNKNOWN]: Thank you so much for watching.
[UNKNOWN]: We'll see you later.
[UNKNOWN]: Bye.